Dirty Projectors

looks like he has some shows coming up in jan/feb that i will have to try to find the time for.

Surprising how little I've read about this albums considering how many people I know who love it.

ILX is eerily quiet about DP. The new album of Black Flag covers was fun live but I suspect it'll get old quite quickly. The Getty Address is really great though, and I'd probably buy anything with Longstreth singing on it.

I was just about to post on this again, just for the hell of it. I don't know why I do this to myself.

??

this is weird

suxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

really? i've only heard one song

really twisted afro pop

please don't bring black people into this whiter-than-white music.

i heard this. http://thankscity.com/jams/fraid/07_Gimme_Gimme_Gimme.mp3 (link might be down in next day or so)

i guess the guitar could be interpreted as either south african jive filtered through animal collective and that dogg (?) or maybe like a really poppy version of Storm & Stress.

why don't you like it?

you honestly wrote that second sentence in your post and then followed it up with the question "why don't you like it?" and can't figure out the incongruity between the two?

i mean seriously, even discounting the black flag "connection," that description sounds like music i'd never want to hear.

that song is great. i don't know anything about afropop or any of that but i dig this song. nice clean gtr tone and the playing has a nice buttery feel. i jumped a little bit when the drum splatters came in for the first time
xp

the black flag "connection" is the last reason i'd listen to this. the that dogg thing is probably the worst part of the description and i've only ever heard like 2 animal collective songs (and the latest panda bear album which is kinda neat). i used to really like storm and stress. i think we might have different tastes.

also, i have to ask: joel, did you even listen to that song or are you basing your descriptions on some other factors?

i've heard this whole album already, jaxon, as well as previous albums by them. i don't like what i've heard.

i liked s&s's two records but a "poppy version" of them sounds weak.

and animal collective = they might be giants. fuck that.

http://www.daytrotter.com/download/311/id=383

woe, he's playing his guitar upside down

ALL THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS ERUPTING IN BACHATA AND REGGAETON !

in four thousand years rise above #1 will just be a footnote in the backstories for rise above #2 and Johnny Mnemonic

i don't actually think i like this :-/

given the album one listen so far. entirely baffled, i must say. what the hell is it?

I haven't heard this but the Getty Address was fantastic. Especially Jolly Jolly Jolly Ego. It sounds like him and a choir of dodgy tape players.

Not sure about Dirty Projectors. I enjoyed watching the aztec-intensive dvd of the Getty Address but all their stuff seems to wear thin once you get the hang of it.

I just got Getty Address. I like it so far, although it feels a bit too conscious of what it's doing at times. Better than Animal Collective, for sure.

i really like this band, but lately the lyrics really bug me. not even his weird singing voice, just the lyrics themselves. the rest of it is so meticulous and then that part is just kind of phoned in...

It has a bit of that same Dr. Spock baby "look what an eclectic, self-expressive genius I am" thing that annoys me about Animal Collective

you could call it just *being* an eclectic, self-expressive genius.

sorry i am not an easy-to-categorize average artist

wait, are you Dave Longstreth?

s0rr7 1 m38n D8v3 104657r37h

no, i have never even heard this band, i just get tired of the criticism of people being too aware or consious of how they sound. are some people making a record by accident?

yeah

how is being conscious of your sound a bad thing?

talk about cockism

yeah, i'd take overly composed music over another sloppy jam band anyday.

I don't necessarily mean it's over-composed

I know.

Really though, I think the "look at me!" with acts like this is more in the listener who's threatened by like the flamboyant content or something.

I mean wouldn't saying a rapper gave off the vibe "lok at me, I'm an eclectic self-expressive genius" usually be a compliment?

i listened to some of this. i didn't even get the black flag thing at all. sometimes stuff like this seems like it was written with a press release first, just to bait rock writers, then do the album after it.

there's also the possibility that people WANT to make music that sounds different

not that this is the differentest band ever... but compared to a good deal of indie rock they are

i really like this band, but lately the lyrics really bug me. not even his weird singing voice, just the lyrics themselves. the rest of it is so meticulous and then that part is just kind of phoned in...

wait the black flag part of the lyrics ?

uhh what? not all of their songs are black flag covers...i haven't even listened to the one that is

err the one album that is. i was mostly talking about getty address and the glad fact.

When I saw them live I kept thinking "Jesus, shut that guy up and let the girls sing." Then I got a promo of the album (whatever one was before the Black Flag thing) and kept thinking, "Oh, you precious fuck, shut the hell up and let the girls sing."

Oh, and to answer the years-old question: No, the reason that no one wrote about this is not because it was too complicated. It was because if you like complicated music, this is disappointing and if you like poppy music, this is annoying. It hits the same dilettante weirdness level as Animal Collective.

i'm kind of afraid to listen to the black flag covers.

<i>i'm kind of afraid to listen to the black flag covers.</i>

You should be...it's awful stuff.

I mean wouldn't saying a rapper gave off the vibe "lok at me, I'm an eclectic self-expressive genius" usually be a compliment?

-- vadx, Friday, October 5, 2007 4:06 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Link

http://a50.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/57/l_0b1d00fb0cbac50784cbdde0b6718d59.jpg

NO

C'mon, ILM! No love for Rise Above? This is a kick-ass record.

Oh yeah, I played Six Pack on my radio show about a month ago.
Really cool.

i'm revisiting this now (it's getting a whole lot of love around montreal, randomly) and i've decided it's great. more the beginning than the end, though, i think.

"Rise Above" is the best thing on it.

i too had my misgivings about this band but the absolutely killed it last night in portland. fuck. like why do i even try to make music?? one of those shows ...

interesting fact: apparently ezra koenig of vampire weekend was a dirty projector between 2002-05. the fuck?~!?

I read this http://www.sfbg.com/entry.php?entry_id=6538 article in the newspaper. I didn't know until just now that Dirty Projectors were supposed to be fake afropop. I thought they were supposed to be Don Caballero with sick lyrics and harmonies over it.

Has the singer guy from Dirty Projectors ever said himself that he is ripping off black people, or is it just a music journalist overlay? I always thought their sound was just math rock. (Or is it that math rock is ripping off black people??)

Please clarify, thanks.

he does use some afro-pop guitar work on his records, guitar picking techniques and such, but it's not like it's anything new in rock to do this.

Has the singer guy from Dirty Projectors ever said himself that he is ripping off black people

haha, no, i don't think so

also this :

Vampire Weekend; Arctic Monkeys of 2008?

for an indepth discussion that would prove interesting to you, if you take issue with that article

Has the singer guy from Dirty Projectors ever said himself that he is ripping off black people, or is it just a music journalist overlay? I always thought their sound was just math rock. (Or is it that math rock is ripping off black people??)

All I know of Dirty Projectors is whatever the ~hour long animated thing on pitchfork.tv is (which is pretty consistently great, actually) and a live show I caught in Ithaca a few months back. Neither one of those sounded remotely like what you're describing.

Seeing them live just solidified how fucking great they are for me.. They did mostly 'Rise Above' stuff and it all sounded stunning...the amazing harmonies, the gobsmacking guitar work...it just sounded effortless and brilliant.

I get the feeling they've yet to do their best stuff though. And folks who lump 'em in with Vampire Weekend are just wrong, if anyone actually does who has heard them both.

There's some sproingy guitar that suggests they've listened to a few afropop records, but to lump them in with a movement like that is selling them way short--they are playing with the full musical deck and have been for a few albums now.

How is Dirty Projectors anything like Vampire Weekend? I mean, they're both indie Ivy League bands in New York City, but Dirty Projectors is somewhere in the "weirdy beardy" brand whereas Vampire Weekend's more like MTV pop.

I've had Rise Above for a few months. "Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie" is very good and the title track is nice, but the rest doesn't do much to tickle my giblets. Is any of their other stuff worth getting?

I love the way this guy wails. im not too keen on how some of 'The Getty Address' sounds. I find the plonker percussion really grating, but the arrangements are mostly great. 'New Attitude' is my pick. The track 'Fucked For Life' is incredible. You get a sense that with such a strong voice, and the ability to find those snatches of awesome melodic counterparts that there is an ability to just not be so damn difficult with the songs, but i adore how it just is.

Slaves' Graves and Ballads!

new album has leaked and is pretty amazing

That Phoenix compilation with the Rise Above cover (while I was in the middle of rediscovering Damaged) made me curious enough to want to hear this. The Getty Address was pretty great imo.

I've had "Stillness is the Move" on repeat since yesterday

new one is pretty pretty good. very schizophrenic.

new album has leaked and is pretty amazing

― congratulations (n/a), Friday, April 10, 2009 6:23 AM (4 days ago) Bookmark

love this. "no intention" and "two doves" are each magnificent

it's like if matthew friedberger wrote vampire weekend an album

i just realized that it reminds me most menomena, but much better

i really can't tell if those descriptions should make me excited or not

i hate all the bands j0rdan mentioned but i like this album

not saying those aren't appropriate sonic comparisons, just saying that not liking those dudes isn't a guarantee you won't be into this

this music is insane

it's like if matthew friedberger wrote vampire weekend an album

― the sultan of ban (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:33 AM (9 hours ago)

i've never really gotten the parallels people draw between VW and dirty projectors, even after learning that koenig was a dirty projector for a few years. some of the vocal inflections he and longstreth do are similar, maybe

i can hear it in the guitars a little bit

did not know that is v. surprising

funny, i've just been getting around to rise above. does the new stuff have all kinds of crazy-ass tempo changes?

here and there, i guess, but that's not really what i took from it

yes it does

sweet

http://stereogum.com/archives/premature-evaluation/premature-evaluation-dirty-projectors-bitte-orca_063902.html?utm_source=ss&utm_medium=tw

I wish the album were longer. It was great, then Flourescent Half-Dome made my head explode, then it was over.

glad this is getting a lot of hype

i don't know about longer. it's a lot to digest as it is.

yeah, I always think these guys albums are just too long, too much sprawl, which is part of their charm, but come on.

i love great, short albums

^^^^

always leave 'em wanting more

usually, but with DP its like the excess of it, the messy swerve of the songs and drunken runtimes

would i like these guys

i think so, louis

there's a live video of 'stillness is the move' too but it doesn't sound as good without the doubled vocals

these dudes are such good musicians that it pisses me off

groovy, will check 'em (was probably going to anyway, as volcano! who are pretty much my favourite new(ish) American band have received DP comparisons)

p.s. great short albums are awesome but so are sprawling 50-minute thrillrides ^_^

cheers n/a!

srsly mention volcano one more fucking time

these dudes are such good musicians that it pisses me off

seriously, as a dude who cannot really play and sing at the same time i got mad jealous when i saw them.

uh 50 minutes is still a pretty short album

there's a live video of 'stillness is the move' too but it doesn't sound as good without the doubled vocals

That's interesting. When I heard studio "Stillness", I said, "Why the doubled vocals? Amber's a better singer than Janet Jackson, you don't need this."

I thought you were talking about 35-minute specials, by "50-minute" I kinda meant "between 50 and 60" although 60-80 is also fine by me if you've got the material and ability to sustain narrative

anyway, these guys. will listen to "Rise Above" on Spotify right now and then hunt down the new one

I disagree with this blogotheque shit in theory, but this video is it in wondrous actuality.

t-track on rise above = gr8

The newie is awesome, also kind of detached and odd whilst being warm and normal at the same time. They were utterly amazing the other week as well, watching them do their interwoven vocal parts ('Remade Horizon') is proper gobsmacking. Genius I say, genius stuff. And that Blogotheque vid with the three Rise Above songs on is WOWOWOWOW.

Ahem. Hyperbole over.

yeah i agree w/ cutty wrt how much there is to digest-- i've listened to this like 5 or 6 times through over the past two days and still feel like i haven't grasped any of it. it's also the only thing i actively want to listen to right now.

and wrt the bands i brought up -- the vampire weekend one to me seems like an obvious one especially in some of the ringing guitar tones and the guy's vocals (i know DP predated VW but go along w/ me) and the fiery furnaces was about the time changes mostly but also that they are jarring but never seem out of place or anything. also something like "stillness is the move" could've been on 'bitter tea' (thinking of that album's "benton harbor blues" or "waiting to know you")

as for menomena, i think DP sound a lot like them on this album when they go into the rawk bits, like these real crunching guitars out of nowhere. also menomena have some weird time changes as well iirc

It's pretty good, and honors their live show (loved their set at Pitchfork Festival last summer), but the guy's vocals annoy the fuck out of me when he decides to unleash trills.

The girls are much tougher and specific ("Two Doves").

those girls are serious fucking singers, but so is he in a weird way. guitar lines are nuts. These guys are still so tied to I Will Truck which is the first song I heard by them and sounds like a such a mission statement to me.

lol, Jordan I thought you were talking about the Muppets earlier.

yeah this year for some reason i find myself falling in love with weird/hyper-emotive vocalists (longstreth, antony) whose contemporaries i otherwise tend to give the eyeroll

beyoncé

This one is more immediate than Rise Above. His vocals remind me a bit of Green Garside.

"two doves" is just about the best song i've heard this year. i don't think this is the lyric, but i like to pretend the second verse goes "but our bed is like a failure". that's the way i heard it the first few times, and it's a pretty devastating thing to hear in the context of that song

love the these days references

"Your hair is like an an eagle/ your two eyes are like two doves/But our bed is like a failure."

(xpost)

this is pretty dope imo. it does feel more reigned in & streamlined, but not in a bad way (although i love it when the feel changes like in the middle of 'temecula sunrise' and it's hard to figure out if it's a metric modulation or a straight-up tempo shift). there are some great handclaps too.

"two doves" is pretty amazing though i feel weird thinking it's one of the best on the album since it doesn't really sound like dirty projectors

i don't think this is the lyric, but i like to pretend the second verse goes "but our bed is like a failure"

i don't know what else it would be?

word, it's pretty but if the whole album was like this i wouldn't be interested.

i really like "remade horizon"

remade horizon is unfuckwithable

Psyched to hear this. Last one was recorded upstairs from my bedroom (loudly) at totally weird hours for me so by the time it was done I was in no way inclined to revisit. These new songs are insane live and i got great faith.

"Your hair is like an an eagle/ your two eyes are like two doves/But our bed is like a failure."

(xpost)

― I'm crossing over into enterprise (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, April 16, 2009 1:44 PM (1 hour ago)

yeah that's what i think i hear too, but sometimes i hear "feather" and i remember someone quoting it somewhere as "feather" too recently. i definitely want it to be "failure"

that song, though. it's amazing to me that no one has written that song before, i feel like it belongs in an old ass romance movie

my fav song i think is "no intention"

Nico seems like a really weird point of reference for these guys, especially such a lovingly crafted homage.

my fav song i think is "no intention"

― starsky and what (J0rdan S.), Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:18 PM (1 hour ago)

yeah two doves -> useful chamber -> no intention is something else

I've listened again and there is no way it's not "failure." I think.

i cant make out any of the lyrics

"two doves" is just about the best song i've heard this year. i don't think this is the lyric, but i like to pretend the second verse goes "but our bed is like a failure". that's the way i heard it the first few times, and it's a pretty devastating thing to hear in the context of that song

― europeen handball (k3vin k.), Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:42 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

Dave asked her specifically to sing "feath-a-yur". (But I prefer "Don't confront me with my feathers" and "This bed is a failure".)

okay it's definitely "don't confront me with my failures." (i have not forgotten that)

owen this is gonna seem really weird but you're the person i was referring to upthread! i googled "our bed is like a failure" to see if that was the lyric and your twitter was the only result. i agree with what you said, if i remember it now

also hi, i didnt know you posted here

there's a real r&b influence on the vocals right? or am i the only one hearing it

..as opposed to before?

no attitude there, sorry, just feel like that's been kind of a DP constant for the last few years

o ok yeah i havent really listened to them much before, will check out their other stuff tho - this album's rad.

in spots definitely. also, that is a really tough lyric to make out, which is always enjoyable. (i guess i'd lean toward "feather".) hope they do another round at Daytrotter.

(it is totally feather)

since i'm about as happy as i've been in a long time today, i kinda want to hear it as feather. but just for today

Somehow missed Mr. Pallett's clarification upthread. So much for lively songmeanings.net debate.

i like this record a lot but man does listening to it on headphones make me walk down the street like a dick.

http://base58.com/ilx/lizmuppet.gif

haha yeah ive gone to the library every day this week, and i usually finish this record on my way there + way back (been listening to it nonstop). walking back is great because it's like 2am and i can sing as i walk

i now agree with mr. pallett. this album should be longer.

This is absolutely the best record I've heard all year. Lyrics to Stillness are awesome too.

i've only recently been acquainted with the band through their new album, but i feel like the dirty projectors are one of the bands that fit into the category of bands who are the only band in the world who could possibly make the music they make. the vocal range of all three singers and the complexity of the songwriting surely help, but there's something undeniably inimitable about their sound. i'm trying to think of other examples of this, there aren't many.

there are a couple of things that the record picks up on to me; his voice seems to have got to this really comfortable david-byrne-ish place, not soundwise but in terms of its dexterity and how comfortable it is (cf no intention), and his guitar playing, or the guitar playing on the record has got to this michael karoli esque peak: not that it sounds like mk, just that it's this really fluid integral melodic satisfying but not explicit part of the record.

i could revive the thing about how feather sounds like failure (and man it does: if you listen on headphones it's feather, but out loud there's that extra syllable: like it's "feathiure"), and how it's kind of something you need to hear at certain times, but the super 100% positivity of the stillness is the move lyrics is blowing my mind.

i also want BITTE ORCA ORCA BITTE! on my gravestone, repeated from top to bottom carved in stone.

this just gets better with every spin. you really hit it on the head wrt the versatility of their voices...the chorus to "no intention" is one of the best moments in music i've heard so far this year

i also want BITTE ORCA ORCA BITTE! on my gravestone, repeated from top to bottom carved in stone.

what does it mean by the way? my guess is "little whale."

good guess, einstein

in what language does bitte mean 'little'

penis whale whale penis

amazing how the pop begins to rise out of the weirdo arrangements. all of these songs have the ability to get stuck in your head over time. very memorable stuff here.

this is the kind of album that transforms over time, i'm sure. album of the year probably.

A good record, despite the title ("lol indie").

This had been sitting on my desk for two weeks and I stupidly only just got round to listening to it. Wow!

"there's something undeniably inimitable about their sound."

i think a big part of their uniqueness is simply the songwriting, instead of the arrangments or instrumentation, which seems to be how many bands get by these days.(/all the time). those wide intervallic leaps in the vocal melodies, the little rubato passages that are often thrown into DP songs -- these are a few things that to my ears sound 'longstrethian' at this point. that's why two doves struck me immediately as just being a DP song w/o longstreth singing. upthread remarks to the contrary are wildly oFFtm.

i think a big part of their uniqueness is simply the songwriting

i agree. however i think what i was unsuccessfully trying to say was not just that they're original, but that the dirty projectors can't be imitated, and maybe even that no one would want/dare to imitate them. i imagine an album like loveless, for example, coming seemingly out of nowhere and then spawning a shitload of bands who spent their whole careers just rewriting those songs. bitte orca, though, which i think is equally unprecedented, i don't see having the same effect. is it because it isn't as good as loveless? probably it isn't as good, but worse albums have been equally influential. i think maybe it's because their formula isn't as fruitful in itself. it would be hard to write a good dirty projectors song (r&b tinged octave-reaching vocal melodies, complex guitar picking/strumming patterns, "rubato passages") whereas it's relatively easy to write a good my bloody valentine song (layered distorted guitar, build/release blablabla). just a tought.

Menomena - Friend and Foe

Taking Sides: Pop Scritti Politti v. Post-Punk Scritti Politti

The part that really blows my mind is the breakdown in Useful Chamber. The girls sing this incredibly complex harmony, and then they repeat it in a much softer style (it sounds like a synth pad) -- it's beyond description! This is such a great record. The run of tracks from Stillness to No Intention is awesome.

Feathliur.

I was trying to dissect just what was going on with my session ace guitar teacher. To his ears, he heard either some tricky harmonizer work or tracks recorded (sampled?) then sped up. The pop aspect of this album has gotten more and more apparent to me with each listen, but the genius lies in all the tricky ways he/they disguise it. They make you work for you pleasure, which makes it that much more interesting/affecting when it finally clicks.

yeah "useful chamber"'s great. reminds me a little of the song they did with david byrne for the dark was the night thing, "knotty pine"

still digging this

i don't think it's even come out yet bro

release date is june 9. pretty scary that people could be done "digging" an album before it's even out.

There's something called the internet, see.

that's not the point.

i'm not done, though. i'll probably even listen to it after it's released. might even pay money for it.

still have not heard it. i don't think i know where to get leaks lately

when i saw these guys (march?) they were flogging 'bitte orca' t shirts

presumably after june 9 you have to stop wearing them

it does seem like a pretty long lag time between when they must have finished it (+ the inevitable leak) and the release date

bj*rk's stock has collapsed like the markets after that last LP hasn't it?!

not even a mention of her last single, or the collaboration with these guys (haven't even heard yet, or this band... curious) a fortnight after it was on Pitchfork.

Did I dream it?

"i've only recently been acquainted with the band through their new album, but i feel like the dirty projectors are one of the bands that fit into the category of bands who are the only band in the world who could possibly make the music they make."

Very much agree. They the Gentle Giant of the indie rock.

Anyone who digs this album and hasn't checked out "Knotty Pine" should do so

This is definitely an album I'll be buying which I can't say about all the leaked albums I listen to. Also just ordered the Dark Was The Night album as the tracklisting looks phenomenal, it's only £9 on Amazon and as it's for charity I can't bring myself to d/l it for free off of the interweb

someone please school me on gordy. what is the essential album?

also some please let me know what else out there in the world sounds like knotty pine

Props to Number None for pinting in the direction of "Knotty Pine" - not the Gordon lightfoot song! Tis awesome.

x-piddly

In terms of albums, I only know Rise Above, which is a tad heavy going, though the song Gimmie Gimmie Gimme is pretty cool.

okay, this is fantastic

sadly, they have three weeks tops until nine-tenths of ilm starts affecting to hate them.

sadly for ilm, i mean; i doubt the dirty projectors will care

it would take a pretty shitty follow up for me to start disliking this band now

I'd also be very interested in what earlier albums of theirs are worth checking out

caveat: his lead guitar playing (i think it is him) is less interesting on this record than it was playing the songs off this record live

also, live they did something tranceyier/wigouter at the end; i am not sure yet how i feel about the power-ballad stylings of the closer here

also, how old is dave longstreth? if he doesn't have at least the better part of five years on me it'll annoy me, i think.

are you competing with him?

he's kinda hot in a gross way too

he's never seen the seventies

saw them live on tuesday opening for TVOTR. they were so great. blew me away. every person in that band has so much damn talent, it's a bit mind-boggling to see it come together so well on stage.

also, i'm in love with angel deradoorian.

which is the one that does "two doves"?

xp seein that show tonight

angel is the one that does "two doves."

had not read upthread in a while. ILX has really u-turned on DP u no

lol hstencil

and animal collective = they might be giants. fuck that.

confusing statement imo

Just heard the Getty Address last night. Really is a great record, and perfect for being super stoned at 2 a.m.

Getty Address is Killer Business

My mother was asking me about these guys the other day which was kind of o_O. Were they on NPR or something?

this album is only released today?

that pads/vocals back forth at the middle of useful chamber sounds new today.

BITTEYORCA-ORCABITTEY!

new album has leaked and is pretty amazing

― congratulations (n/a), Friday, April 10, 2009 6:23 AM (1 month ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I've been listening to this album consistently since this post and I'm still not tired of it, pretty amazing.

April 10 is my birthday

that was quick - Bitte Orca already on Spotify

Might as well have titled this album Pitte Forka.

groan

lol

good rec, not sure if i like it more than rise above? some of the noodlier guitar stuff seems not as tight or loopy-yet-mathematical in that dp way that i have come to like. it's more -- here's some hammer-ons! i like the production -- especially the drums -- on this one more but the song writing hasnt grabbed me as much. need to listen to it more tho. they're still probably the best band going these days. makes so much other stuff out there seem hopelessly half-assed

Opening track is dope

Digging this whole disc, and did not expect to like it one bit.

Top Three Things About The Song "Cannibal Resource":

1. The guitar during the verse, and the way it plays off the drum beat. (It was this, mostly, that convinced me to buy the record after hearing the first 30 seconds or so on spotify)

2. The girls' ahs underneath the chorus!

3. The huge drum hit on the two of the clean guitar bit that follows the chorus.

I was very irritated by this album at first, but I think it might be growing on me. What are they like live? The bass is pretty good on the album, but I'd be interested in hearing something like "No Intention" in a live setting.

Saw them for free last night at Pritzer Pavilion and have raved about it elsewhere - the sound was amazing and the band is incredible. The songs don't really sound much different live than they do on the records except they rock the loud parts a little more, and I think they switched up the chorus for "Stillness is the Move" a little bit. It's funny how Longstreth does the bass player chicken-neck motion while playing because this is the same reaction I have when I listen to the songs. Female singer/guitar player had some pretty fun dance moves when she got to shed the guitar for "Stillness is the Move." Drummer is sick and has good drummer faces.

just saw them in pdx, too good ... and some of the songs were changed up. they did the intricate vocal part of 'remade horizon' as the first part in the song and then repeated it later for example. and it was all so so good. don't miss them live!

Oh my, Stillness Is The Move is killing me dead. The repeat button is my friend.

2009 is an awesome year for music.

Totally, 'Stillness is the Moves' blows me away again and again! Awesome album, this.

moves

I've been listening to this a bunch over the last few days. Overall I like most of the songs, but I think Stillness Is The Move and Two Doves tower above any of the other tracks. This suggests to me that the album may have been even better if main dude would have divided lead vocal tasks more evenly between the 3 of them. Maybe let each person do 3 songs? Then there'd be nothing left to do but rake in the $$$$$.

I think "Two Doves" is by far the worst song on the album. It has the least interesting chord progression and aesthetic-wise is like uh... really girly. I imagine dude writing it and being like "Strictly 4 My B.I.T.C.H.E.S."

I guess rhythmically and harmonically those two songs are more straightforward than they others.

To me, that works in their favor because the focus then shifts away from quirkiness to the beauty of the melodies and their voices. I guess I get more excited about really well crafted pop songs than by the originality of it all.

I think "Two Doves" is by far the worst song on the album. It has the least interesting chord progression and aesthetic-wise is like uh... really girly. I imagine dude writing it and being like "Strictly 4 My B.I.T.C.H.E.S."

― balearific, Friday, July 10, 2009 3:20 PM (42 minutes ago) Bookmark

STFU, BITCH

I guess rhythmically and harmonically those two songs are more straightforward than they others.

To me, that works in their favor because the focus then shifts away from quirkiness to the beauty of the melodies and their voices. I guess I get more excited about really well crafted pop songs than by the originality of it all.

― Moodles, Friday, July 10, 2009 7:56 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Idk--I think the guy has an amazing voice and that, say, "Useful Chamber" is extremely catchy. I do see where you're coming from, though. I respect your opinion.

STFU, BITCH

― the kid is crying because did sharks died? (Hurting 2), Friday, July 10, 2009 8:03 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

GO CHOKE ON AN AIDS-RIDDEN DICK

1) ur missing the point 2) uh "the girl" wrote it

― we don't know weber he bill return (k3vin k.), Friday, July 10, 2009 8:14 PM (30 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Yes, I definitely am missing the point. But no, Dave wrote all the songs--cf. http://andybetablog.blogspot.com/2009/06/dirty-projectors-interview.html "The songs on this album that I wrote for the girls"

Strictly 4 My B.I.T.C.H.E.S., bitches

kindof think Two Doves is just too much of an overplayed reference and comes off pretty lame.

Stillness is the move is gonna be the one people remember but Useful Chamber is pretty awesome esp for that harmony/pads bit that I wish reappeared at least twice more in the song but whatevs that is what repeat buttons are for iirc.

like all that feather/failure stuff upthread is real enlightening music discussion cringe to me now.

also i wish i didnt just read that interview, dude is such a dork

― we don't know weber he bill return (k3vin k.), Friday, July 10, 2009 8:32 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hahahahahah that much I definitely agree with. My favorite part is when they listen to West African guitar music together

"Two Doves" haterz are obscurantist loons! :-))))))))))))))))

So wait, is my reading comprehension slipping, or does he kind of make fun of Rollins for buying the same kind of African guitar music they are enthusing about later in the interview? Or is it just "lol Rollins old"?

<3 this lyric in "temecula sunrise"

and what hits the spot, yeah, like gatorade?/ you and me baby

at times, nothing hits the spot like gatorade tbh

singing 'woah-nigh'' after that line is as r kelly as the lp gets.

i like "i live in a greenhouse and i am getting wasted, yeah" from the same song alot as well. this album has really darling lyrics, like nothing is really going wrong in their lives ever: "i'm cau-au-aught up in a storm, that i, don't need no shelter from."

it's more super-positivity i think, like stillness in the move, after all that we've been through etc

huh, i like this stillness song, i'd never heard it

It's fucking rad more like! :-)

This album is so great. The musicianship is just amazing. So nice to hear in the wake of tone deaf retard bait like Vivian Girls.

Best performance I've seen on Letterman, ever, perhaps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuzdtrDRrro

(via http://pitchfork.com/forkcast/13334-cannibal-resource-live-on-late-show-with-david-letterman/)

True fucking joy! Why isn't EVERYONE listening to this band? They should be all over the fucking charts.

Wow, that performance is just great! Can't believe how good his voice is live as well, quite remarkable!

dont't get me wrong i like that they're playing it alot faster than on the recording, but it is not flattering in certain parts. i like that new guitar line on the "still countin on..." part though, and have always loved dave longstreth's pidgeonlike neck movements.

Band reminds me of Scritti Politti.

The vocals for sure sound a lot like Green, but the music not so much though right?

Deradoorian EP >>>> Bitte Orca

Yeah I've yet to check that out!

i havent heard of that, will check it out

sounds kinda like a more minimal, less produced, less dreadful (in the neutral sense) Third, maybe?

woah i haven't heard anything about this. did she write the songs herself?

ok i just listened to it and the answer is obviously yes.

it's good! nothing quite as great as "two doves," just some seriously darling mystical folk.

are you guys talking about "Mind Raft"?

i am

the song i heard sounds good but has nothing on bitte orca

nb: I only like one song on Bitte Orca

sonderangerbot: yes

The vocals for sure sound a lot like Green, but the music not so much though right?

It's in the vocals at times, oh yes, but a song like "Stillness Is The Move" has a distancing effect on me that reminded me of songs like "The Sweetest Girl" as well.

ok thought maybe there was something new out. Mind Raft is pretty good, a bit lazy and grungy in comparison. but i agree with Jordan, Bitte Orca is just impossible to get tired of. and if i ever do i'm looking forward to checking out the previous stuff

longstreth seems like such a bro

http://www.avclub.com/austin/articles/dirty-projectors-david-longstreth-doesnt-think-the,34303/

The A.V. Club: Has anyone ever told you that they fuck to your music?

DL: No! That’s alarming.

lol

btw i have recently decided this record isn't that good

I always want to have some kinda balls and damage in my singing, too!

also, I'm really glad he hates Zappa

i kind of love how he says "fuck" or a variation thereof in about every sentence

way too many fucks for a "goofy" and "eccentric" ex-yalie imo

On the subject of the merit of Bitte Orca: I've been a big Dirty Projectors fan for about five years now, and I don't think any of their albums are all that great. But somehow the project continues to appeal to me; Longstreth seems like a force for good, no matter how loud the whiny chorus of anti-hipsters becomes.

except for stillness is the move every idea on bitte orca was done to better effect on rise above

"rise above" is the best song on either imo, but i had trouble sitting through that at times; bitte's much pithier

^ That and "Fluorescent Half-Dome".

Regardless of how you may feel about Bitte Orca (the album), their tour to support it was, forgive me, the best show in recent memory, perhaps the best I've ever seen. That band aims high and succeeds often and spectacularly.

solange cover of "stillness is the move" is great

wow, this is really great

solange's version > DP version

yeah this insanely good

not better, just different

really inspired use of this sample imo

wow so much better

loathe to call it better - i'm really attached to that trilled guitar line, but solange's version is indeed really fuckin' awesome.

yeah both are great

yeah its hard 2 no i agree

maybe not so much better, but v. possibly a little better.

didn't do the one thing I was hoping it was which was insane Grace Jones climaxing on "we've been thru!"

i like the thought, but it's nowhere near as good as the original

this is a jam

had to reuse the bag lady / xxxplosive beat??

Tape Store otm

this is dope

Yeah performer/source aside this is much more straight than the original, but a good thing.

Original makes a great autumn jam

I wish I'd listened to this again before Universal went all pissy and made Pitchfork take it down.

jon u can ilxmail me...

sent, thx

beat needs some change ups

Been listening to Damaged like a lot the last couple months, I put on Rise Above today and apart from title track which is awesome, it really doesn't live up to the orig record not that that is really the point I guess.

I love how the on the orig rise above when rollins sings the chorus its like he's tryin to calm himself down and rev psych himself up at the same time, but like that first time longstreth sings the title, it sounds like he's ur already beaten and he's putting his hand on ur shoulder to tell u it just isn't worth

like "rise above man, there's not much else you CAN do"

Who said it was Solange's boyfriend who told Jay-Z to appear at a Grizzly Bear show? Was it somebody on here? I wonder if this dude suggested the song to her.

Still Think I will truck is their finest moment

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2009/11/dirty_projector_25.html#more

Anyone read SFJ's essay in The New Yorker?

Man, the title track of Rise Above is so fucking good.

not as good as this though is it

fuck that's dreadful

Man, the title track of Rise Above is so fucking good.

― pithfork (Hurting 2), Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:45 PM (2 hours ago)

yeah i still think it's the best song i've heard by them

http://cdn.pitchfork.com/media/bjorkdp452.jpg

http://pitchfork.com/news/39240-bjork-and-dirty-projectors-to-release-collaboration-imount-wittenberg-orcai/

Last May, Björk and Dirty Projectors debuted a new collaborative suite called Mount Wittenberg Orca. It made its debut at a benefit for Housing Works in Manhattan, an event put together by former Pitchfork contributor and current Stereogum writer Brandon Stosuy. And that's about the last we heard about this fleeting meeting of the musical minds. Until now.

This April, Björk and Dirty Projectors entered Brooklyn's Rare Book Room studio and recorded an updated version of Mount Wittenberg Orca. The 20-minute, seven-track piece was written by DP leader Dave Longstreth. It will be self-released digitally on June 30 with money raised going to the National Geographic Society.

Read a letter from Longstreth about the project over at Stereogum.

Mount Wittenberg Orca:

1 Ocean
2 On and Ever Onward
3 When the World Comes to an End
4 Beautiful Mother
5 Sharing Orb
6 No Embrace
7 All We Are

anyone check this out?

DLing it now.

it's so vocal-heavy that i'm getting like a prog-broadway or prog-doowop vibe sometimes, but there's some cool shit here

It sounded pretty good on one listen. I like how it works like a mini song-suite, there's a real cohesion in the sound.

I wish it had a little more of the DP heavy sound instead of being light and acoustic the whole way through but it was pretty.

it is pretty. only listened once so far, but i like. i think bjork and them are a good fit.

i kind of like this, had no idea what it would sound like. though i like both artist i was not inspired to check it out.

Yeah my fear was that this would be too pretty, but I will check it out.

this is nice. like how bjork's voice contrasts with the bright chirpy women's chorus.

saw them play tonight and it was pretty fucking phenomenal. never realised what a stunning song "two doves" is even though i'd heard it dozens of times. sometimes it takes an incredible live show to alert one's senses to the strengths of a band.

What is amazing: see them live and then revisit their recorded material, esp. "Getty Address" and "New Attitude".

they were great when I saw them last year

i saw them at a smallish festival and enjoyed it--i think they came off as a little disjointed and not totally in sync but i'd be willing to chalk that up to the lousy festival-atmosphere and some sound problems that to me seemed pretty major, as i couldn't hear one of the guitars at all for the entire show and it looked like they were doing some pretty complex interplay. would love to see them at a more intimate venue. pretty amazing band all in all, definitely breaking new ground despite all the whack comparisons/analysis upthread/elsewhere.

that's a shame about not hearing one of the guitars as i think with this band specific details such as what each individual is playing need to be acknowledged in order to get a sense of the broader picture. what's incredible is not so much how adept they are at playing in sync, but rather how artfully the songs come together as a result of each member's unique contributions.

oh yeah, i'm definitely a huge fan of the band and their songs and was at the time i saw them. i don't think the material came through as well as it should have at that particular show, but what can you do. i did like watching them though, dave and amber give each other all these interesting cues and nods and everyone in the band seems to alternate between smiling and having the time of their lives, and then focusing in intensely to nail difficult parts. very cool.

yep, the band interaction was a really welcome touch. i was expecting a kind of a stilted stage performance due to the high levels of concentration required or even some rehearsed posturing, but you could really tell they were having a great time and that, along with the music, made the audience very happy.

yep, the band interaction was a really welcome touch. i was expecting a kind of a stilted stage performance due to the high levels of concentration required or even some rehearsed posturing, but you could really tell they were having a great time and that, along with the music, made the audience very happy.

― charlie h, Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:15 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark

I missed them last night because I saw them the last two times they were in town, but friends who went said that they played a bunch of stuff off of Mount Wittenberg - how did that translate live?

^ It's good, esp. "Beautiful Mother", which has become one of the best songs live. Cute and uncomplicated with that savage bit at the end.

yeah, the songs they played from mount wittenberg went down really well, and given those songs are really quite different, they added yet another dimension to an already varied show.

Dave Longstreth vs. Phish fans. Oh dear. (Read the comments...if you dare.)

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/heardmentality/interview/dirty-projectors-dave-longstre/

Luke Suthers says:
I'm a counselor at a facility for troubled high school age youth in Portland. I was planning on taking a group of kids (that are fans of the Dirty Projectors) to the Wednesday night concert at the Aladdin theater. After reading this article, I think I'm going to have to reconsider these plans. Now, I know it'll break these kid's hearts. But I don't think taking them to see a band that attacks another band during interviews would be prudent.

Actually, Longstreth's response is pretty diplomatic, considering he didn't bring the band up. First he says he doesn't like Phish, which is phair, er fair enough. But then he recognizes why others may like Phish, or even compare the two bands, and he does so in a positive way. I mean, if Phish fans took offense every time someone said something about the band, they'd be paralyzed with insecurity.

the way I read it, he was hardly even bagging on Phish -- the main point seemed to be "there's been this wave of indie dudes talking about liking jam bands, but it's weird cuz those dudes don't like to jam themselves, they just play their album live" (admittedly the wording in the interview makes this sorta hard to parse, but that's what I got from it)

VV Group papers gotta stop with the inflammatory headlines. it's like "we turn your candour into troll bait"

the main point seemed to be "there's been this wave of indie dudes talking about liking jam bands, but it's weird cuz those dudes don't like to jam themselves, they just play their album live"

There's a massive difference between liking something and having the skill/inclination to incorporate it into your own stuff. John D loves metal, but you're not gonna hear double kicks and downtuned shredding on Mountain Goats releases any time soon.

You mean you haven't heard that the new album is called Thor Speaks With Fists?

http://soundcloud.com/dominorecordco/dirty_projectors-gun_has_no_trigger/s-D1re0

New Dirty Projectors song! Minimal, smoldering, almost like it belongs on a Jose Afonso tribute. "The crowd will yell, but the gun has no trigger", Occupy movement anyone?

Deserves a bump, seeing as I missed this the other night despite a bout of insomnia, and the email from Domino was skulking in my spam folder.

I feel like there's something cringeworthy about this song but I really like it

something a little bit Amy Winehouse about it

kinda ballsy how straightforward it is (no guitar or keys, relatively simple beat loop). i'm curious to find out if this is an outlier or if the whole record is as stripped-down and focused on the vocals.

okay that's rad

I still have the same general problem with this band, which is that I don't like the voices as much as I think I should (although this is the best I've ever heard the women sound, at least until they open up to that super spread "aa" vowel and tip back into annoying)

(also switching from an old Autechre album to this probably didn't do it any favors)

Angle Deradoorian is "on hiatus" apparently

Angel, even

that's...kind of a bummer

that is funny Number None as i made a similar mistake in the ILB thread about the 2012 Angels yesterday as well.

love this band, can't wait to hear this new stuff.

it's very bond theme. i like it but i feel like his singing maybe clicks better with the songs when it's sorta tight & frantic like the last rec.

I been thinking for three years that I hate this band. Tonight it shows, I really don't. They remind me a bit of Grizzly Bear, if the latter were any good. Plus, I like the girls.

title track on the new one is very dylanish

For sure--that track and "Impregnable Question" have a real New Morning feel to them.

Liking this a lot, moreso than their others.

New Morning, eh? Have not really been too into what I've heard of this band, but that certainly intrigues me!

I've been hearing across the board that the new one is way way way better than anything else they've done. This is a band that I should love on paper but who in practice drive me way up the fucking wall so I'm cautiously intrigued.

yeah mainly when i've listened to 'em i've thought "i get why people like this band but I DO NOT LIKE THIS BAND!" but i'll check the new one!

if you didn't like their old stuff you probably won't like this one either.

i think there are two dirty projectors threads going? i said on the other one that the new one is more stripped down instrumentally and song structure-wise but it's still the same dude singing and writing songs so it's not like way different.

the other thread is a lot more stripped down structure-wise but it's still the same dudes writing posts

Dirty Projectors - Swing Lo Magellan

x-post - ha ha

if you didn't like their old stuff you probably won't like this one either.

― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, July 5, 2012 5:54 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i never liked anything by them before, but like swing lo

BULLSHIT

it's true, i should go back and listen to the other albums, but they never appealed to me before. i also like the new grizzly bear single and never liked anything by them previously.

totally hear dylan/ mccartney moves, too

Is the new album streaming anywhere?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/arts/music/david-longstreth-of-dirty-projectors-on-the-new-album.html?_r=2&smid=pl-share

*crickets* ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IG5f50olZA

i'm into it, but Keep Your Name was even better (only came across it yesterday):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9tbusKyvMY

definitely feels like a solo project. the drums are very preset-y, but there is so much ear candy in the rest.

i like this. they are due for a new album and i doubt it will disappoint.

i'm keeping the flag waving...

I'm coming around to Keep Your Name but I found the lyrics made it an excellent contender for this thread: Songs where the singer/protagonist comes off as a serious dick without meaning to

I would be into DL dragging some of the Getty-ish orchestration back to the forefront though.

this new song is incredible... i can't wait for the new record now. i haven't cared about them in so long but this rules so hard, makes me want to revisit Bitte Orca and try Swing Lo Magellan again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpCruYl7kz4

btw the new one is self-titled, out February 10 via Domino.

http://pitchfork-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/content/dirtyprojst.jpg

01 Keep Your Name
02 Death Spiral
03 Up in Hudson
04 Work Together
05 Little Bubble
06 Winner Take Nothing
07 Ascent Through Clouds
08 Cool Your Heart
09 I See You

So... This is probably gonna be my favorite album of 2017, huh? All three songs so far has been pretty damn great. The rest is probably crap.

love a 9 track album, can't wait.

"Maybe I could be with you / do the things that lovers do / slightly domesticate the truth / and write you 'Stillness Is The Move'"

This lyric upsets me

"little bubble" is amazing. felt like their take on neo soul to me. i haven't really listened to them since bitte orca (aka college) but some of the other songs i've heard off this sounded pretty awesome. the opener is sick.

Breakup albums are one thing but these songs so far make me feel like I'm on a subway having to listen to a guy loudly berate his girlfriend in public

lol from what i understand about the lyrics across the album....... um, i'm glad i'm not someone who hears lyrics first

love a 9 track album, can't wait.

lol it's a double LP though

i really wish you made a new thread, not sure why ILM is so afraid to make new threads these days. for instance, i had no idea there was a new Flaming Lips album as i didn't click on the generic thread.

anyways, very excited for this new album.

does he sing "while you drink a fifth from my ass"?

yeah i heard that too...

xxp i figured bumping this one made sense since it's self-titled, and one of the things i love most about ilx are that the threads span several years. but i would've made a new one if this wasn't a s/t

if only the lyrics were as subtle as the arrangements. like keep your name, it's an awkward listen.

"Maybe I could be with you / do the things that lovers do / slightly domesticate the truth / and write you 'Stillness Is The Move'"

This lyric upsets me

― fgti, Wednesday, January 18, 2017 6:41 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i really dig this line, it's obviously a reference to Dylan's "Sara" ("I can still hear the sounds of those Methodist bells / I’d taken the cure and had just gotten through / Staying up for days in the Chelsea Hotel / Writing 'Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands” for you').

really glad i can ignore lyrics so easily with this sort of music

when indie bros reach a certain age do they all turn into mark kozelek

this is NOT a comment on quality but there is a little "hearts & bones" in "up in hudson"

can't *wait* for the results of honeybear realising father john misty is impossible to be with

http://www.baeblemusic.com/musicblog/10-6-2016/amber-coffman-gives-her-own-take-on-her-breakup-with-dirty-projectors-frontman.html

This new track from Coffman, entitled "All To Myself," seems to address the same topic as "Keep Your Name," albeit from a very different perspective

Never listened to this last year

the spoken breakdown in keep your name is excruciating. Up in Hudson is beautiful ototh.

ILX will probably be interested to know Dawn Richard is on this album (singing a song co-written by Solange, I believe)

Noticed the cover is a riff on the motif from the cover of Bitte Orca and Slaves' Graves and Ballads. But I can't tell if that's like... a giant chocolate sculpture or wood.

Dave's singing has dramatically gotten better. I can't believe how good he sounds on little bubble.

imho dave's singing was always great, but he deffo more refined/practiced now

*he is

If DL is referencing a Dylan lyric, that Dylan lyric upsets me too. It's transparent to me as a listener which lyrical devices will transform a "cathartic song about the singer's heartbreak" into an "abusive kiss-off to a lover". Reminding the ex (and the world) that her breakthrough star turn was "hey, a song ~I~ wrote for you"? It disempowers the ex both internally and externally, reminds the audience to check writing credits, is a form of aggrandizement-for-the-author, and, worst of all, threatens to be, if the song achieves some kind of NPR ubiquity, some evil black lantern that's gonna hang over the ex's aural environment for the song's lifespan. I write this because I respect DL as a musician and a man from head to toe, but if I'd been privy to hearing these lyrics at a stage where I could've offered some advice, I'd tell him to make beautiful music, not shitty music. Stuff like this is legacy-souring for me

otm

Felt similar about the line "What I want from art is truth, what you want is fame" from Keep Your Name.

About Stillness Is The Move, Amber is credited as a writer on that track (only other person on that record other than DL) and don't all the lyrics just come straight from Wings of Desire? I always wondered how there was no credit for that on the track.

"keep your name"'s lyrics are just, ugh

unfortunate bc musically this is the most i've ever liked dp

Nauseating profile up on p4k today http://pitchfork.com/features/profile/10013-going-solo-dirty-projectors-dave-longstreth-steps-outside-the-frame/

We talk about The Blues Brothers joining the canon of flinty, ’70s American cinema, and how Magic Eye illusions double as a metaphor for the concentrated power of female orgasm.

I'm going to assume you made that sentence up 'cause there's no way I was gonna read that anyway.

no that sentence is absolutely in there

yep. along with pictures of Longstreth looking pensive in the woods

jfc burn it all down

:D

Interesting that he produced Coffman's album, I guess.

also that he recorded this new album a year and a half ago

Did Eli Cash write this:

"They took breaks listening to bachata, dancehall, Jorge Ben’s A Tábua De Esmeralda, music where even harmonic elements are framed as rhythm, and at night stood out by the train tracks with burritos, staring up at the factory silos nearby, filled with corn syrup."

Still kinda enjoyed it and hoping against hope that I can take DL's "the songs are not autobiography" claim seriously.

So this new song with Dawn Richard

this is easily the best of the new songs so far, the end with the overlapping vocals is really nice

http://www.stereogum.com/1924017/dirty-projectors-fleet-foxes-frontmen-discuss-the-bad-and-bougie-state-of-indie-rock-today/news/

In which Dave Longstreth of Dirty Projectors starts a conversation about how indie rock is resting its laurels on the unearned, lazy appropriation of other people's ideas by extensively quoting "Bad and Boujee".

"well removed from the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience"

my new display name

feels great

The whole thing is pretty vomitous. Like, yeah, you guys are real fuckin' artists, man. Critics of society, even.

Dick Longstretch

lol @ GAPDY nostalgia

fleet foxes guy is slightly less of a complete disaster there than dave wanker

that was otm though, about GAPDY being the last time indie was proggy

Grizzly Bear’s Ed Droste chimed in, too, with a screaming face emoji.

Ed Droste otm.

that was otm though, about GAPDY being the last time indie was proggy

― flopson, Friday, 10 February 2017 18:07 (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

someone wants to be deluged in links

that is such a pathetically closed-minded perspective

also all those bands have made more records since 2009...

Ahhh this is awful

"Refined and effete, well removed from the rain drops and drop tops of lived, earned experience"

Lifting your guitar-style wholesale from Malian players, lyrics about listening to Tupac and Kanye, this is imo the most dangerous and insidious form of cultural white supremacy, that kind that is colonialism masquerading as wokeness

And if somebody uses "effete" as a pejorative again I will limp-wristedly pull a gun on them

god i wish jamie from xiu xiu hadn't deleted his tweet about Longstreth, it was something like "do you KNOW that Dave Longstreth is a /something/ with fucked ideas about colonialism?"

I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO REMEMBERED THIS!

was something like 'racist notions about eastern european ethnicity' i think

Chipotle
Indie rock has been criticized as refined and effete for as long as I can remember, but I think a narrow focus on a certain strand of American indie rock masks how bands like Tame Impala and Unknown Mortal Orchestra really are pushing music forward while influencing artists across genre lines. I think 2016 was an unusually weak year for indie rock, but 2015 and 2013 had lots of great stuff. But yes, you can't keep mining 90s lo-fi indie rock/Pavement forever and expect it to sound fresh.

02/10/17 9:43 AM+7REPLY

Chipotle
Also call me crazy, but I think 2017 will be a really good year for (indie) rock music. 2016 was dominated by great superstar R&B/hip-hop albums, so I think the time is more than ripe for a shift.

02/10/17 10:02 AM+8

lil wotie
my take is that rock music should move away from the "indie" sound of idkkkkk jangly guitars and delicate vocals...idk what effete means. Move to something harder that shreds

02/10/17 9:56 AM+10REPLY

Chipotle
Yup. Stooges/Stones/Faces/Led Zeppelin/Velvet Underground influence would be welcome and would sound super fresh.

02/10/17 10:10 AM+9

And once again ILX seems like a beacon of sanity.

I mean maybe we're all wrong

Maybe Dave Longstreth in fact invented Ali Farka Toure

Maybe he invented Black Flag also

I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO REMEMBERED THIS!

was something like 'racist notions about eastern european ethnicity' i think

lmao yes!!!! i tweeted at him at the time like "JUICY DEETS SPILL THE BEANS!!!!!!"

Longstreth reminds me a lot of David Byrne: aloof, arrogant, annoying, constantly appropriating African music

I made the joke a few times before but Dirty Projectors reaallllllly living their band name these days

it would be "fun" to read a group intvw between Longstreth, JS, and Downtown Boys

I've tried to engage with DL one-on-one about serious stuff, but he's such a brainiac and he's clearly spent weeks upon weeks building up internal logic structures to excuse himself, explain himself, preserve the idea of his own genius. Maybe I'm just not on-the-ball enough to call him on his bullshit irl but it's like trying to play tower defence against a racist and misogynist Harvard graduate who knows every possible loophole

man who clearly spent weeks upon weeks building up internal logic structures to excuse himself is a pretty good summation of the new songs imo

“Complex plans and high ideals but he treats people poorly/Is a ceaseless ambitiousness proxy for a void he’s ignoring?” is the opening line from one of the tunes of his new album.

God that Insta post was fucking cringey.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/16/magazine/the-dirty-projectors-go-solo.html?_r=1

In between the previous record and this new one they did a fabulous duet version of Climax by Usher. Seemed loaded with significance at the time and now seems even more like an obvious portent of a breakup (album).

That's on the JJJ session for their Like A Version slot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-_K-IbJYvE

It's streaming. And it's weird. A song like 'Work Together' is definitely new, but...

i love that this and the new xiu xiu record are coming out on the same day. longstreth is such a fucking asshole, the lyrics on this thing are absurd.

tbf JS is probably also an asshole but a much more interesting one imo

well like for instance the xiu xiu record ends with vaginal davis reading a list of lines jamie wrote about pictures of underage prostitutes he found on backpage and then reported - i think like most of his records, there's an enormous amount of empathy and a concerted effort to connect and acknowledge aspects of the human condition that are ignored even in the arts. the songs are really good, i think it's the best thing he's done in a while, but he puts out a lot of albums. this dirty projectors record is really immaculately produced, the music is really cool on most of it, but it's the most hilariously offensive and unintentionally mean set of lyrics i've ever seen. nagl, but sort of amazing and again hilarious

god i wish jamie's tweet was still up

christ the hours i've wasted looking for some trace of it

This is the first Dirty Projectors album I've been remotely excited to hear (that "Own Little Bubble" song is gorgeous, and the supporting cast is A+) but the guy is so toxic right now I don't even want to go near it.

Are the lyrics really that bad? I have a very low tolerance for one-sided, recriminatory lyrics pointed at an identifiable person, but the buzz around this is so bad you'd think the guy made a men's rights record. Or a Sun Kil Moon record.

There really are some awful, awful lines on this. But it's not as bad as Sun Kil Moon.

the lyrics are just very tin-eared, like i can't believe DL thought putting this out was a good idea - dirty laundry!

Are the lyrics really that bad? I have a very low tolerance for one-sided, recriminatory lyrics pointed at an identifiable person, but the buzz around this is so bad you'd think the guy made a men's rights record. Or a Sun Kil Moon record.

A couple of them stick out as being particularly bitter and they are, indeed, not a good look, others just seem more about wearing his pain about on the outside in a somewhat clunky manner, and the narrative album arcs away from the bitterness to acceptance by the end of it, which makes the lines in Keep Your Name (at the start) seem somewhat contextualized.

he probably (hopefully) knows those lyrics are nagl. this album is good.

I reviewed it and my thought was he was trying really really hard to express some really deep contempt while still thinking at the back of his brain "NO, NO MISOGYNY, CAN'T DO MISOGYNY." but also, like, dude, "your heart is saying clothing line / my body said Naomi Klein, No Logo"? really? really dude.

(said review: http://www.thesinglesjukebox.com/?p=22989)

I like the 'no logo' shout, it makes it seem like a Kanye rap. Also, the next lines are pretty great: "We shared kisses and visions / But like KISS' shithead Gene Simmons said: / A band is a brand and it looks that our vision is dissonant"

I think my main problem is that he keeps calling her a sellout. It really does seem to mostly be about wearing his pain on the outside, but he keeps hitting that beat over and over and over so it becomes much uglier.

oh, that Naomi Klein line is awful! katherine otm - also the lyric sheet says "Drinking a Fifth For My Ass"

Given the prevalence of misogyny on social media the easily quoted sellout stuff just seems so ill-thought out and cruel.

What's wonderful bout thinking about these people is that Longstreth's at best OK and often awful singing makes his words indecipherable anyway.

I disagree. I thought the lyrics on Swing Lo Magellan were quite good, and most intelligible

haven't heard the new one, except I liked the song w/ dawn. but of course I'm biased bc ILM made me a dawn stan back in the diddy dirty money days

DL's singing sounds good but also like every phrase is overdubbed

I like the 'no logo' shout, it makes it seem like a Kanye rap

oh no you made me hate it more

that part is bad, true

but cool your heart is amazing

Great review, Katherine. I was just thinking about how I don't envy the critics who review this. It's a total mine field.

Awesome review, Katherine :)

is this out yet?

it's on Spotify, will listen tomorrow.

Amazing work Katherine

ya that's really good writing... Dirty Projectors SHANKED

i'm too scared to revis Bitte Orca (which i adored at the time) but, his singing definitely got worse, right?

he's repeatedly attempted to explain the lyrics in interviews with claims that they aren't always as autobiographical and direct as they seem and that he was trying to take a somewhat abstract approach to the breakup, but i don't think that approach was successful at all.

Cool Your Heart & Little Bubble are nice but the rest feels so unfocused and messy, even ignoring the lyrics.

someone should compile all the worst lines from reviews of bjork's last album and construct a DP review from them

Everyone needs to take lessons from Kevin Barnes in how to air that laundry

a state of emergency

x-post: I don't know is calling girls 'faggy' or threatening to get her beat up was ever a better look...

hey man it was 2007, things were crazy... george w bush was still in office, "what what in the butt" had just gone viral, and we were still two years away from GAPDY...

yeaaaahhh as an occasional fan I would caution against using Kevin Barnes as any kind of behavioral model (I think he'd agree tbh)

Ha, I've often wondered if Barnes realizes how unacceptable Hissing Fauna is by today's standards. He made two and a half albums as a trans black person named Georgie Fruit and no major outlet called him out on it.

One thing he did get right though is making a breakup album(s) with clear affection for the ex in question. Hearing about the crisis that results from losing your support system is way more interesting than the Longstreth/Drake ex-shaming approach.

joining the chorus of "outstanding review, katherine"

i find the preoccupation with the lyrics strange and a bit suspect, but then again i'm a straight guy. looking forward to listening to the whole albumin

they're pretty hard to ignore

Ha, I've often wondered if Barnes realizes how unacceptable Hissing Fauna is by today's standards. He made two and a half albums as a trans black person named Georgie Fruit and no major outlet called him out on it.

― Evan R, Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:41 AM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think about this all the time. not just wrt Of Montreal, but in general how much problematic shit hipsters got away with only 10 years ago that they would get dragged for now

yeah i mean Dan Deacon has a song called "I Have AIDS" on his first album

the recruitment of Kanye and Tupac and Roberta Flack and Molly Bloom as the unvolunteered Greek chorus of a mundane twentysomething relationship

screaming

amazing rvw katherine

there was this one thread, i think about jay-z, discussing the phenomenon where an artist's contemporary horribleness retroactively taints their early work, because with hindsight you can hear the rot setting in. that dynamic seems in place here for me ... this is foregrounding all my latent distaste for dude and his thing

just re-read, so dope. channeling early-ilx density + vitriol

this is.....not great but lolling at everyone falling over themselves to kill the guy from dirty projectors

GAPDY shall fall, one by one

karen o will turn out to be a spider-squasher

I feel like I have to give this a chance because I liked the last couple of albums, but I also think I'm going to end up regretting it

I legit love Dirty Projectors. I think what really gets under my skin about this is not just the fact that I think the thesis of this record is tantamount to abuse, but that there is a larger weirder paradigm represented, the paradigm of "successful"-musicians-responding-poorly-to-a-bear-market. Everything about that Tumblr post and every Kanye- and Tupac-reference, it just screams of a person clinging to their perceived relevancy of yesterday instead of existing in the present-tense, and allowing their divestment from industry expectation to be a liberating force, artistically. I guess I just wish somebody as talented as DL clearly is would work to prove to all of us that his music is necessary in 2017. This is part of the reason why I have so much respect for Sufjan I guess, who I didn't ever love at his zenith, but became really passionate about as he continued to burn every previous record as he went

great post

putting aside the content that really nails it, this record was made by someone who thinks it's still 2008 and also desperately needs an editor

It's a good album! But with horrible lyrics. And it's not just the misogyny - though that would be enough - but the guy just isn't a very good storyteller, and he was more interesting when he was just yelling Bitte Orca Orca Orca Bitte. Musically, it's cool, though.

idk I heard "Work Together" and thought I heard a cat playing a Mellotron.

booming post, fgti

CAD otm

yeah otm. it's such a bummer because i love the way he puts music together, which is no small thing.

I am trying to give this a fair shake but I'm only on track 2 and already gritting my teeth

the phrase "inept hipster Timberlake" keeps popping up in my head

(that is a specific reaction to "Death Spiral", not a description of DP overall)

i had some hope based on up in hudson but i think that's the only song here w/a decent chorus and it's 7 and a half minutes long.

the auto-tune stuff is actually embarrassing

a few of the beats are so 2007-era Burial.

Ha, I've often wondered if Barnes realizes how unacceptable Hissing Fauna is by today's standards. He made two and a half albums as a trans black person named Georgie Fruit and no major outlet called him out on it.

― Evan R, Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:41 AM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think about this all the time. not just wrt Of Montreal, but in general how much problematic shit hipsters got away with only 10 years ago that they would get dragged for now

― flopson, Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:09 AM (forty-eight minutes ago)

yeah i generally view askance the recent impulse among critics (and "critics") to snap-pan any kind of art that fails to flatter intersectionalist twitter sensibilities, but even as a big fan of that period of of montreal it is a bit shocking to think about what he got away with. that said, he made some great art, and sometimes great art is messy

idk I heard "Work Together" and thought I heard a cat playing a Mellotron.

I'm on this song now and laughing my ass off thanks to this comment

xp otm. i was gearing up to defend this record b/c if a guy needs to work through his breakup and sound like an asshole sometimes that's not really that huge of a crime, unfortunately the music isn't worth defending.

someone should compile all the worst lines from reviews of bjork's last album and construct a DP review from them

― mookieproof, Thursday, February 23, 2017 12:41 AM (nine hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

vulnicura is a pretty good comparison point here, actually -- a huge amount of autobiographical breakup feelings, but very little contempt. (a lot of reviews of "stonemilker" for instance seemed flabbergasted at the idea that someone might talk about "emotional respect".)

as far as the "slap-panning" of art that "fails to flatter intersectionalist twitter sensibilities" in this thread, well, a) I didn't like dirty projectors to begin with and the year of our lordfuckoff GAPDY was particularly suffocating in terms of what was allowed to be seen as good; b) I get steeped in enough contempt in life, I really don't need it in art, particularly when there is other art to listen to instead

as far as "Everything about that Tumblr post and every Kanye- and Tupac-reference, it just screams of a person clinging to their perceived relevancy of yesterday instead of existing in the present-tense, and allowing their divestment from industry expectation to be a liberating force, artistically." goes (sorry, cross-responding to a lot): I don't know which Tumblr post you're talking about, but as for the latter, sure, it might be that, but it seems more likely that virtually every less-interesting-than-he-thinks twentysomethingdude thinks that the fact that he listens to well-known rap artists is noteworthy.

Or that a guy whose lyrics are really really referential might reference rap artists every once in a while.

Oh, I was referring to that Instagram post, sorry, not a Tumblr post

i think Up in Hudson is a masterpiece, despite the lyrics, another really nasty one i forgot to mention - "And we both had girl and boyfriends blowing us up SMS / But we both knew a mood like this so strong would be wrong to suppress" - airing out that your partner cheated, hmm... no good! also talk about being stuck in the aughts with the SMS reference

i think the music on this bar the dull keep your name is great nonetheless, death spiral and work together included. cool your heart just keeps getting better and better also.

From Winner Takes Nothing: "The truth is you'd sell out the waterfront for condos and malls"

i think that's a reach

That's another nasty one for me. Especially in an indie context, though he follows up with the sorta self-deprecating: "I'd throw the dice with the rest of 'em Down on Broad Street and Wall"

christ

if anything it is a bit relieving to know I am not overreacting to a couple unrepresentative lyrics

yeah that's the second worst line on the album imho.

Well, we're still just talking about a couple lyrics, katherine. There's a lot of 'I'm destructive' 'I did you wrong' 'never listened', all that stuff. But the attacks are just always on the same note.

Luckily for me as a non-native english speaker I can listen to english songs without understanding or focusing on lyrics most of the time (I'm missing on too much country/folk/hiphop because of that) but even without the lyrics I can't get into Dirty Projectors... their whole sound is very fey to me, even when Amber was around - she had a great tone to her voice but DP's music has these constant awkward shifts that try to emulate african music but fail miserably imho.

From Winner Takes Nothing: "The truth is you'd sell out the waterfront for condos and malls"

― Frederik B, Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:54 AM (twenty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"ok i might be a dick but you ruined williamsburg"

lol

I've often wondered if Barnes realizes how unacceptable Hissing Fauna is by today's standards

guess it depends on how hard of a line you draw wrt pushing identity boundaries vs exploiting them, this statement seems like goalpost shifting to me

Best thing I can say about this record is that it's slightly better at doing this seemingly scattered sound than whatever it was that last Bon Iver album.

god, I wish I could understand the sort of mindset that allows one to write things like "we built Brooklyn together but now you made it all waterfronts" without a thousand inner critics screaming "NO, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING, WHY ARE YOU CONFLATING YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE GENTRIFICATION OF WILLIAMSBURG, IDK HOW THAT THOUGHT EVEN EMANATED FROM YOUR CONSCIOUS OR SUBCONSCIOUS BRAIN BUT BUDDY, IT STOPS HERE."

perhaps it's better not to have that kind of mindset! (that certainly is the mainstream viewpoint; god knows that said inner critics tend not to shut up about *anything*, legit or not.) but at least it would prevent such lyrics from making it out of the brain

is his ex a property developer

(I paraphrased, but only slightly)

idk I think a lot of this stuff that scans as mortifyingly cringey and verboten to us, for most in its target demo it will go down smooth as a knowing, hip, smart, self-aware, etc as ilxors felt abt 'losing my edge' in 2001

Fantastic takedown on SJ, Katherine.

I'm with fgti in that I legit loved most of DP's previous work. The blatant misogyny on this is too much though, for me. I won't be bothering with the whole record.

oh sure, admittedly I am not the target demographic for this. (target*ed* demographic, maybe)

I can't get over that instagram chat with fleet foxes guy - maybe less *bad* than this ex-shaming but just as repellent

i didn't think it was that bad, read like something plaxico and Lamp wld've written in 2010

lmao

boom

i'm not really sure who the target demo for this stuff is tbh

GAPDY veterans

passionate millennial males

There's a part of me that wonders if maybe it was a reasonably civil breakup and his brain is going "hmmm, I have to write lyrics for an album, that's an experience that humans have emotions about, let me write about this experience in an emotional way so that the humans will like it" and then went way too far, and in misguided directions.

Obviously I'm projecting here, but thinking of people I know who are long on music theory and short on empathy.

i'm not really sure who the target demo for this stuff is tbh

That's what confounds me about this. The target demo is clear—the same educated, plugged-in, open-minded, privileged indie rock listeners with all the stereotypes that entails (NPR, Williamsburg, #indiesowhite, etc). But that's also the demographic most likely to be offended by this content. And that's even before you take in the fact that he's badmouthing a former bandmate who remains enormously popular with fans of the band.

xp I could see that - convenient narrative, the fact that him and Coffman were on speaking terms until a year ago (presumably when he started getting deep into writing & recording this record), and the fact that he has a new girlfriend and doesn't seem all that sad, it's all a pose (dirty sweater, unkempt beard). i took a look at his twitter and he said something on valentine's day about "dismantling co-dependency!" uhhh ok guy

uh am i missing something these lyrics just seem douchey, psuedy, and kinda misogynist - which is really pretty commonplace in music, especially of the confessional, earnest variety.

i didn't think it was that bad, read like something plaxico and Lamp wld've written in 2010

― flopson, Thursday, February 23, 2017 1:32 PM (thirty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permali

i didn't think it was bad at all either and i think most of the negative reaction to the new record (aside from fgti who seems to have deigned to engage with the music) is mostly half-baked virtue signaling ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

he is maroning

A guy like Mark Kozelek, who long ago aged out of being cool, can kinda get off on trolling his audience. Kevin Barnes sometimes gets a kick out of it too (he once talked to me about creating Georgie Fruit b/c he was jealous of rappers and how they could get away with saying nearly anything they wanted, no matter how improper). But Longstreth always seemed like a guy deeply invested in scene politics and attuned to the sensitivities of his audience before this.

ops to myself - like bruce springsteen has multiple songs were he needlessly points out that the female subject of the song isn't that good-looking

xps even fu internet browser with autocorrect

the specificity of the lyrics on this record compound the nastiness - bowery ballroom, stillness is the move, clothing line/naomi klein, truth/fame, we both cheated on our exes, etc.

there is a place that we both know
it lives in our hearts, we built it together

He is talking about panera bread here

Koz would have stated it plainly

There's a part of me that wonders if maybe it was a reasonably civil breakup and his brain is going "hmmm, I have to write lyrics for an album, that's an experience that humans have emotions about, let me write about this experience in an emotional way so that the humans will like it" and then went way too far, and in misguided directions.

Obviously I'm projecting here, but thinking of people I know who are long on music theory and short on empathy.

― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, February 23, 2017 2:03 PM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this makes a lot of sense to me.

also i think the specificity could have worked if there was an ounce of humor to any of this, though we're talking about a guy who crafted an entire hook around the line "we drank a two-liter of orange crush" and didn't even make that seem funny.

iirc most of the lyrics on bitte were just imgaistic non sequitir. do irc? if so, idk why he switched tack

prob telling that my favorite dp album has black flag lyrics

xp yeah the lyrics on Bitte Orca and iirc SLM are not personal at all

even more cynically, maybe some coked out PR dude came up with the idea to have Longstreth and Coffman release solo albums in the same year about their breakup, leading to a full Dirty Projectors reunion in 2018. GREAT FOR THE BRAND!

Longstreth always seemed like a guy deeply invested in scene politics and attuned to the sensitivities of his audience before this.

i don't know him but he doesn't seem like he's particularly attuned to the sensitivities of anything

There's a part of me that wonders if maybe it was a reasonably civil breakup and his brain is going "hmmm, I have to write lyrics for an album, that's an experience that humans have emotions about, let me write about this experience in an emotional way so that the humans will like it" and then went way too far, and in misguided directions.

Obviously I'm projecting here, but thinking of people I know who are long on music theory and short on empathy.

― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, February 23, 2017 2:03 PM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this seems v plausible, and would feed into the line that DL is proffering about the lyrics not being "autobiographical" when they plainly are - like he's trying to intellectualise this kinda messy work.

some coked out PR dude

I knew Heathcliff Berru would weasel his way back into the industry somehow.

^ ew times a zillion, fp and fuck off

Isn't that Dave Longstreth's backing vocals on Amber Coffman's "All To Myself" ?

Yeah, and he cowrote the track as well.

I listened to the album on headphones today, and musically it's great and inventive. Unlike fgti I think there's plenty that engages with the music of today, much more than on most indie-albums. With it's bass-triplets working against a stuttering 4/4 drumbeat, Work Together is basically a juke tune (and I'd guess the mellotron sounds is stolen from Islam Chipsy). Ascent Through Clouds keeps tumbling into a sorta german schaffel techno groove complete with cut up vocals, while Up In Hudson has that drum outro as well. Most of all it's an r'n'b album, with Death Spiral being a straight up Timbaland homage, and the whole thing playing a bit like Dawn's last few albums. Both Keep Your Name and Winner Takes Nothing has rap breaks, with Winner Takes Nothing trying to do the Migos triplet flow.

And if that sounds unbearably embarrassing, well ok, then this is not for you. But it's not more imperialistic or coopting than Vampire Weekend or Paul Simon or Animal Collective. I get why Dave would long for the days of 2009, because this was basically what indie tried to do back then, to plow through different sounds and incorporate them into their own visions. And it collapsed, mostly because none of GADPY managed to really follow up on their 2009 albums with something equally succesful. So it's sorta an oldfashioned way of making music, but I loved it back then, and I like it now.

But then there's the lyrics... yeah... It's not as if it becomes redeemed, but I See You does try. He ends with saying that 'the projection is fading away / and in it's place / I see you' which, keeping in mind the band was called Dirty Projectors, could sorta mean that he tried to turn Amber into something she was not, and now will let her be herself. But... that's not enough...

Vampire Weekend and Paul Simon.

Really.

Sigh

I think this is good:

It always hurts, and sometimes turning that hurt into a meaningful piece of art is a balm. But other times, trying to convert your pain into something that will publicly redeem you comes across just as selfishly as it sounds.

http://uproxx.com/music/dirty-projectors-break-up-album/4/

Occurred to me today that the closest analogue to this record is Robin Thicke's Paula, the record he made after "Blurred Lines" and his wife left him for cheating and being drunk and zonked out on Vicodin.

Yeah, because that's the only breakup record ever made.

Dude, there's a difference btwn Blood on the Tracks, Sea Change, Vulnicura, and For Emma Forever Ago etc. and this DP record. They're not grounded in specific details or about public people. Good breakup albums take a common and uninteresting personal experience and make it universal/abstract. "You're Gonna Make Me Lonesome When You Go" vs. "You'd sell out the waterfront for condos" and "what I want from art is truth / what you want is fame" etc etc

Good breakup albums are spiritual salve. There's no room for anyone but Longstreth here.

Blood on the Tracks had Idiot Wind on it too

I'm really really into that Uproxx review

There's no room for anyone but Longstreth here.

― flappy bird, 24. februar 2017 23:30 (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, that's pretty much the point of the last song on the album, I See You, as well. That he got lost in 'the projection' and everyone else got crowded out, including Amber.

And there's also a pretty big difference between this breakup and Thicke 'cheating and being drunk and zonked out on Vicodin.' There's nothing on Dirty Projectors as accusatory as comparing Longstreth to what Thicke did. Cool, you don't like it, but if your point is that Longstreth is being a dick, try not to be as big a dick yourself.

I like the uproxx review as well, but think this part is confused:

Instead of finding resonance in these lines, I’m reminded of the times when I valued the power of my own pain over the way weaponizing it might create more pain in others.

That is finding resonance in the lines. They resonate against the shitty parts of her own life. So it's shitty resonance, but it's still resonance.

portajohn reverb

keep counting on portajohn reverb
OK, open your eyes

There are some major failings on this album, and I get if people just won't bother, but most of the songs are without hate (really, the shitty lines are on Keep Your Name, Up In Hudson (although it doesn't say that they cheat on their spouses, that's a misreading) and Winner Takes Nothing) and there's a bunch of good songs with interesting musical ideas. It's not as hateful as Robin Thicke, heck, it's not even as hateful as Like a Rolling Stone. And the problem isn't that it's 'grounded in specific details or about public people', if we didn't like that Lemonade wouldn't have been the best album of 2016. It's tainted with misogynism, and it fails as a narrative, but it's a fine record. Comparing it to Robin Thicke, or saying that it can't resonate, is absurdly overblown.

It is true that "some of these lyrics make me feel like shit just for hearing them" may be a better line of attack

I do think it makes the last two tracks feel even better by comparison to the whole, though.

Also seems like "DL is fucking up in a way that is similar to my fuckups" is a different type of resonance altogether that is at least more separate from the music

It is not like "DL wrote fountain of sorrow but with opposite polarity" resonance. It is different and distracting.

When the 2nd track StArted I thought he was singing over Timberlake's Mirrors

It's tainted with misogynism, and it fails as a narrative, but it's a fine record

sure but is it better or worse than iceage

for the record I am fine with records that are grounded in specific details or about public people, that's hard to avoid if you ever want to broach the subject as an artist; it's the contempt that I'm not fine with

Yes, and the reason the difference is important is that while the whole album is filled with specific details about public people, it's only a few lines that have contempt.

And while that could be enough to dismiss the album, it does not turn Longstreth into Robin Thicke.

Yeah no that Uproxx review is garbage. Isolate the parts where the music is discussed and realize... she has nothing to say that isn't about her.

"Musically, the record is inventive, fascinating, and experimental in the best sense of the word. His ability to fuse R&B, folk, pop and deeply intelligent songwriting with alien electronic sounds is on stunning display here." Like... where are the red pens? Show don't tell??

Also starting off a review with a five-year-old self-retweet of praise is... not the best look

If coming off like as much of a narcissistic egotist as Longstreth is some sort of reviewer performance art, I guess I apologize, but that didn't make it easier to read.

anyway, sorry for getting heated, i just bristle at the abuse of length-trumps-insight "longform" in both personal essays and music crit

"what I want from art is truth / what you want is fame"
hahaha these are actual lyrics w t f

the thing i mainly remember about that uproxx review is the word "regretted"

also "an sh*thead"

iirc most of the lyrics on bitte were just imgaistic non sequitir. do irc? if so, idk why he switched tack
― flopson, Thursday, February 23, 2017 2:23 PM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Might be true on the whole, but the only lyrics I remember from Bitte Orca sound like they were lifted from chill gchat convos and are aggressively non-expressionistic / symbolic:

Definitely you can come and live with us
I know there's a space for you in the basement, yeah
All you gotta do is help out with the chores and dishes
And I know you will

/

Maybe I will get a job
Get a job as a waitress
Maybe waiting tables in a diner
In some remote city down the highway

maura otm

xp hm true I was thinking of stuff like this

The renegade feeling satisfied
You blinked and closed your eyes
You like the feeling of Saturday
You love the danger in the night
The restless corpse is collapsed wind
The breath is daffodil
What not become what is lapsing
Into the universal fill
Or maybe just

BO is a great album

that song rules so hard

the elephant in the room here is that the music of the Dirty Projectors is 1000% garbage

on stunning display

Re the Uproxx review, I thought it was a coup to respond to "an album of undisguised criticism of a public figure" with a critique that was essentially a self-indictment

Like, responding to a grossly non-empathetic album with empathy? Thank you Caitlin. Who cares what the album sounds like we all know at this point what to expect tbqph

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/AGQLRKywRqg/hqdefault.jpg

mistaking self-aggrandizement for some sort of brilliant coup against the system is what basically got trump elected, but ok

glad we're past describing what albums sound like, it's long gotten in the way of me shoehorning in mini-histories of my life as a music writer in brooklyn

brad you live in queens

shhh they'll hear you

lots of dirty projecting in this thread

This bad album is relatable to me bc I too am bad at my job

lmao

Hasaa

No for real I thought there were only two possible responses to this record, "I don't hear lyrics" vs. "This is some abusive bs", but Caitlin taking a more empathetic response mirrored my own listening to this record, and the concerns of "when honesty in artistry goes too far" or whatever

Also don't pin your fascist prez on me lol

I'm fine with the uproxx piece because

a) it is neither claiming nor trying to be a review, so critiquing it by that standard is off

b) it really doesn't discuss How The Music Sounds that much less than "actual reviews" do. take the review on pitchfork -- if you went through that with a highlighter and highlighted everything that discussed the music in concrete terms, the proportions would not be dissimilar. not to pick on that review -- it's just obviously one of the more higher-profile outlets, and...

c) discussing How The Music Sounds can lead one astray when How Said Music Sounds is portrayed as more innovative than it actually is. (I haven't heard the full album -- why do that to myself if I'm not getting paid, and I have the wrong opinion on this album to ever be paid for it -- but I would be very surprised, given even the positive reviews, if it were better than the tracks I have heard. Or if the parts that were better were dave's and not, say, dawn's.) I would rather read almost any personal essay than 500 words rhapsodizing about dave's groundbreakingly experimental use of 808s & Heartbreak vocoding.

d) discussing How The Music Sounds is fucking pointless when there's this undertone (or, sometimes, overtone) of condescension and contempt to everything. being able to ignore said undertone is only really possible if you don't experience it on a regular basis.

the only thing that bugs me really about the piece is the retroactive apology for calling the "first date with carly rae jepsen" piece shit. there's no need to apologize for that, the piece was in fact shit, and just because your ex wrote it doesn't change that fact. after all, one of the sole bright points of having an ex is a heightened ability to recognize when that person is being shit.

sure but the sentence i highlighted would be terrible if it had been talking about personal experience in a similar way (which the rest of the essay does; i see zero self reflection, just a lot of "greatest hits of me" linking and the word "regret" over and over). it's all broad strokes and imprecise words. the music doesn't necessarily have to be discussed more, but as a professional it should be done better

http://www.bkmag.com/2015/12/09/the-20-best-rap-albums-of-2015/

hm, i ever do wonder why Caitlin says

"Is this album more important than Dee Barnes? And if so, why is that?" about Dr. Dre's Compton, and

"Cold-blooded, sure, and deeply difficult listen to as a woman who cares about, oh I don’t know, being seen as a human being? ... Welcome to cognitive dissonance of the highest order, DS2 is a fucked-up velvety croaked masterpiece about unspeakable things. But maybe when we talk about Future, we should speak of them." about Future's DS2

but Dave Longstreth dragging his ex-girlfriend for a full album gets an empathetic ear

ok but i'd also like to point out that the review is poorly written which undermines its own approach

xp idk, maybe because some of us have been in abusive relationships with brilliant men and have experienced that remarkable cocktail of adoration and fear and hurt?

"My behavior in the wake of that breakup remains some of the most regretted in my entire life. That period contains my worst memories and many regretted decisions. I don’t know much, but I do know that publicly being an sh*thead to my ex after we broke up is currently my biggest regret."

like on a purely mechanical level this is horrible

also Whiney you have swum too far out I think, if you're wondering why she might have more to say about a problematic record made by a musician whose music she adores, as opposed to a rapper who she feels she can't enjoy because of his history of violence against women

i think you've swum out too far into a sea of wokeness if you think being an abuse victim excuses weird racist hypocrisy?

now I understand why in 1953 men self-medicated with martinis instead of going to therapy

at the risk of cross-platform manthreading I was debating on whether to include an e):

e) at this point it is going to take a lot of convincing (or a lot of unprecedented awfulness of concept, like, xojane's worst hits levels) to get me to join a pile-on of an OK personal essay by a woman on grounds of it not being music writing didion

like, there is not a single sentence in that entire piece that is not 1000 times better and betraying more self-reflection than "As we filed out, Haddaway's “What Is Love” played over the loudspeakers, prompting me to wonder once more, the only question that song prompts anyone to wonder: What is love?" (from the linked first-date-with-carly-rae-jepsen piece)

well, to be fair, no one said that was an example of great music writing on the Haddaway thread

fgti, do you think what Beyonce did to Jay Z on Lemonade was abusive?

lmaoooo

1st: whiney you're comparing end-of-year blurbs with a personal essay and saying she must be racist because of number of paragraphs-devoted-to and I'm sorry you are literally reaching so far here please somebody talk to the man right now so I don't feel crazy, also it is not at all my place or yours really to start a discussion about how white women are supposed to write about misogynist rap music, please somebody say something please

2nd: Frederik the implied violence-against-women that is present in this DP album is not present in the Beyonce record because of the opposite gender roles and also there is more conspicuousness on that record and its roll-out and subsequent nuptials suggesting that husband-and-wife felt it was an empowering and artistic statement for black women so no basically not at all; I did think that people going on "who is becky" scavenger hunts was closer to abusive behaviour

Wtf. What violence?

Have you even heard the record yet?

If you do not see the IMPLIED violence-against-a-woman in what is being sung on the DPs record then that's fine. Me, I think that telling the audience that you wrote a woman's breakthrough hit, singing "I wanted art / you wanted fame", singing "I'm shining like tears in the rain / you're shining like fifteen minutes of fame", plus all the excessive other b.s. slung on this album constitutes implied violence against a woman, yes.

Have you heard the album?

this thread is going placds

*places

Ffs Frederick I have literally heard the record a dozen times over the last six months please stop talking to me

It's the same two or three lines that are excerpted over and over, then coupled with 'plus everything else' and there really isn't that much else. It's a breakup album, there's rage, there's anger, there's sorrow. And yeah, Keep Your Name especially is contemptible and extreme, and it was probably really stupid to release that as the first single, but the storyline is also him beginning in that place and by the end of the album reaching some kind of peace and acceptance. And even in Keep Your Name he has the momentary self insight to sing 'I wasn't there for you / I didn't pay attention / I didn't take you seriously And I didn't listen' which he then loses again immediately. There are, like, different voices and shit on this album. I wonder what would have happened if he had released Cool Your Heart as the first single.

And no, it's different from Lemonade, mostly because Lemonade is an astonishing piece of art, and that tends to transcend problems, while nothing is transcend here. But some of the critique itt is way overblown. I don't hear implied violence in him saying he wrote a song he has a songwriting credit on, from a band where he was known as the main songwriter, that sounds an awful lot like a lot of other songs he has written.

indie rock musicians and indie rock critics really deserve each other

Dre beat up Barnes, abt 25% of Future's songs're abt treating women like meaningless shit, Longstreth is being a dick about his ex. Whiney you are not comparing like w like

What % of his songs is this album