Robert Polllard played his first solo show last night to a half empty crowd in Athens, GA

I'm sure he'll do just fine when he comes to NYC, there's always loads of intense GBV fans around here. I'll be there, anyway.

I think part of the problem could be that people think that he's only going to play new songs - this is not the case! I asked Jon Wurster (he's Bob's new drummer), and he told me that they are playing a little bit of everything from the GBV, Pollard, and Pollard side-project catalog, so it's pretty much business as usual, but with an all-new band.

But I've seen many super-fun GBV shows! For real! (It probably helps that they were all in NYC though - there really is a major concentration of GBV superfans around here for whatever reason.)

I dunno, he told someplace (Magnet? Pitchfork?) that they were gonna start the set with about 20 of the 26 songs from the new record. I'm pretty much a GBV superfan and there's no way I'm up for that. Plus I think anybody that cares already went out to see them on the farewell tour.

But I think the main issue is brand recognition, known quantities: people who're into GBV will go see GBV 'cause it's a brand they know & trust; who knows what Robert Pollard solo will be? A band? An introspective Pollard telling stories between solo renditions of songs you'd rather hear in full-band arrangments? And not everybody reads liner notes (or fanzines, or websites), either; I'm sure there's a fair percentage of people at any given GBV show who couldn't tell you Pollard's last name.

you must be thrilled about that.

for real? whoa, different world down there

If he's doing GBV - whats the diff?

Is he now sober?

But there's just no good reason why he shouldn't play his old songs. They are his songs, and he should do whatever he wants with them.

speaking of post-gbv projects, d0ug g1ll4rd is touring with richard buckner at the moment.

GBV were playing "I Am A Tree" on the final tour, but I think it's sorta unlikely that he'd pull that one out without Doug Gillard around.

yuppies who grew up on indie act more willing to pay insane price for ticket than college students who were six during said act's prime shockah

most other bands/solo people on the planet are better than those two. some accomplishment.

"The fact of the matter is that the regulars at local clubs balk at ticket prices that in other towns might seem perfectly reasonable."

None of those towns are as working-class as Athens, though, no doubt.

* exceptions made for mr. daniel and possibly mr's selzer and wheelie possibly. the rest of you wake up - YOU'RE NOT THE STONES.

To wrap up this completely aimless barrage of facts, I just want to point out that Blount is trying to put one over on you all, as the "full house" we treated to "Telephone Line" was maybe twelve people at best, and only one (1) person seemed pleased or even vaguely aware what it was we were singing...

None of those towns are as working-class as Athens, though, no doubt.

college town as working class? yeah, right.

as for ticket prices, gbv's guarantees were among the highest in indie rock, with clubs providing accomodations for the band and other stuff. just because he's "solo" now, i dont expect the dude to lower his prices significantly, especially with a backing band that features musicians well-known in their own right. the reason i bring this up is because ticket prices often reflect the cost of putting the show on. furthermore, if your only income derives from touring [doubtful bob has gotten any sort of day job], its somewhat justifiable. im sure as a someone who's "working class" you'd probably know that bills gotta be paid, right?

blount's a fake rock critic tho

When I was a student I had my rent paid by my parents (bless 'em) and everything else had to come out of my crappy minimum-wage library job. $5 is one hour of sitting in a fluorescent basement gradually going deaf from copier noises and blind from particles of old books flaking off in my eyes. $10 is two hours of that, $15 is three, and that's just not a fair trade for three hours of equivalent torture, ie, Bob Pollard wanking himself onstage.

Weirdly enough, now that I'm not a student I have a food service job where I make something like eight thousand times as much, paying for everything myself and still having way more disposable income. However, my ingrained preference for inexpensive, good entertainment remains, which is why I haven't been to a 40 Watt show since god knows when. The last good one I remember was Pylon LAST New Year's. In the meantime, really excellent pinball can be played for 50 cents a game, and if you're good, you can win a free game!

furthermore, if your only income derives from touring [doubtful bob has gotten any sort of day job], its somewhat justifiable. im sure as a someone who's "working class" you'd probably know that bills gotta be paid, right?

I'm certain that Bob doesn't have a dayjob, but the other guys in the band do, and that's part of why they are only playing out on weekends.

But yeah, I really hate when people complain on and on about ticket prices - there's so many costs involved in determining those prices, and it's very rare that the artists are overcharging. If you want to complain about anything, complain about ticket fees and stuff like that. The overhead of touring is high and these people have to make a profit or at least break even to make coming to your town worthwhile.

xpost two dollars a word IS considerably better than most rock crit.

very otm

As for all the Pollard hate on ILX, there's no need for comment. Though I find it hilarious the level of animosity Pollard/GBV still generates here. Particularly from folks like Matos -- who by his own admission hadn't EVEN HEARD a GBV song until 2004.

xpost I saw PE on the Black Planet tour and they were dull as toast live, the only interesting part was when unhinged Griff gave a speech before the unforgettable/forgotten "Pawns in the Game"

Nothing. I'll write it up on Fluxblog probably but I don't get any money for that whatsoever. I paid for my ticket. The only times I've ever seen Pollard for free were free outdoor concerts.

i doubt i know anyone who makes an hour what you get paid for five words of hypeseed.

I hope that you do because I'm not doing well at all right now.

from a compound eye is fucking great. but it's definitely a "challenging" listen.

This is pretty ironic, yeah.

It'd be a lot easier to see why you're so bothered, JB, if you'd set up your argument better. Like, start naming names and cover charges. Are DBT charging less than $10?

Not to mention that whatever Pollard's advance is probably has never been haggled at the 40 Watt for a reason.

You think they're paying Matthew, right? i doubt they'd do that for Richard Buckner.

in re: this -

thomas if your point is that indie rock is as empty and cash driven as arena rock good job.

well of course it is! but I don't see you or anybody else bewailing the "empty and cash driven" state of arena rock (or arena rap: nice choice of tropes there pal!) - it's as though the indie dude is supposed to be held to a standard that 1) you don't actually give a shit about and 2) he can't actually be shown to have contended was important: there's this straw-indie-dude who's actually Ian McKaye ca. 1988 and guess what: Pollard's always been about makin' that dollar, so's everybody, and why is it this player gets the hate from you and I'll never, ever see a "fuckin' Ludacris wants 35 bucks to watch me rap over his actual records in ATL" thread? I put it to you

I'm just trying to find a way to compare apples to apples so that a discussion about ticket prices has some sort of context (and yeah, I'd say that Pollard or Spoon or the Arcade Fire are in a way different league than, say, the Rosebuds or the Radar Bros.) I understand how people have a better use for $15 but I think your argument is a lot more about Pollard than the dollar amount. Actually, I'm not really sure that that the 40 would have filled up with $5 tix because, as is obvious, he's an established act that doesn't see much impulse action door sales (and maybe I'm wrong on that, because I haven't been to a show up in Athens in a few years.) My point is this though JB: if you wanna blame a non-sellout on ticket price, I think you need to elaborate (same with the weather.) A way more reasonable argument (since you can't be refuted by box office data) is that the GBV farewell tour was the last time a lot of people wanted to see the guy play out, and that the market accurately reflected that. Combine that with the number of times GBV has played Athens (which, I'm fairly certain was a lot because Pollard was dating someone who lived there in the early 2000s) and it's a decent barometer for not doing all that well.

links to ilx threads pls? I'm not being facetious at all, a guy can spend half his record talking about how much money he's making and as long he's not mr. indie dude it'll be considered right corny to call him out for it

According the tour dates database at gbvdb.com, GbV played Athens, GA seven times from 2000 to 2004. They toured like beasts during those years though. I think they played EVERYWHERE seven times during that period.

Anyway, is the FIRST show really a good indicator of what the turn out for this tour will be? Is the new Pollard album even being THAT hyped in Indie Land currently? I mean, Pitchfork hasn't even reviewed it yet.

Anyway the new album is great and if Bob and the new band were gonna play near me on the tour, I'd be there.

No! Where are you finding this anti-capital rhetoric: in K records newsletters from the late 80's? Which themselves had catalogs in them? You know I have nothing but love for you, so don't take this the wrong way, but have you not noticed the amount of ad space down there at indie ground zero? Besides which, the notion that ten bucks is a fucking king's ransom for a rock show by an established player on the scene is just Ludacris.

x-post hush you

x-post I believed the lies SPIN told me as a child.

I just don't get how it is that people who never bitch about commercialism suddenly find themselves all fired up about a motherfucker asking ten measly dollars for his show! Bitch about G-Unit starter jackets FFS.

Because obviously Pollard fans are just retarded stooges for his game and wouldn't know better than to spend their money elsewhere.

how much money do you think Pollard has to retire on right now? how much money do you think Pollard will be pulling when he's 60? Should he just wait ten years when he has a smaller market and draw to sell everything off?

It's offensive that you assume his fans are this stupid.

Tough shit, Don.

Links please! Indie has always been about a small business economy that sustains itself. Any indie sniping about moneymaking from the indie side has tended to come from indie stuff trying to retain its credential while crossing over to the mainstream, i.e., having cake + eating it. The whole "you can't make money & be indie" meme comes from people not really getting (or, I'd argue, acknowledging) the middle ground that indie really is, or was, all about.

I love it that Pollard has released over 1000 songs over the course of a zillion albums and a dozen side projects and that he tours his fucking ass off and that he's got a total careerist attitude about it. I love it that he's selling his relics on eBay to raise money, which is a lot more than most musicians have the brains to do. I love it that there is this group of people who detest everything about Bob Pollard for everything he does to make a buck. The reason I love this is because whatever the fuck crack Pollard is selling, he's got a significant number of fans who are totally addicted. I have no idea how that addiction works, but I'm just going to assume that a big part of that addiction is that these fans of his get a tangible amount of joy when they hear his music or see him play or masturbate while looking at his album covers. Fuck, if only all musicians were this lucky to have such loyal fans. It's way beyond me to comment on their taste, lest I be confronted with the idiosyncracies and hypocracies of my own. If it makes them happy to blow their load or wallet on something as inoffensive as Bob fucking Pollard of all people, well, who really gives a shit.

And there's a difference between commenting on taste and really giving a shit, Don. Blount only brought up class warfare to get some goats.

yeah but the last time I encountered it from the people to whom it's being attributed, Clinton was still in office - the only ppl holding up the sXe indie standard now are people who never even had any stake in it in the first place - it's like you're a Protestant arguing against Vatican II, man!

A guy needs some money. That guy has some records and posters of value that he can part with to get that money.

I'd like to see someone tell that guy to his face that he has a personal problem with that guy selling off those records.

(The first round of ebay auctions, put up by a close friend, were motivated by Bob wanting to buy a house. He gave up his old house in the divorce. This was admitted from the start. The later round of ebay auctions was put up to help out Bob's brother, who lost his job over the holidays. This was also admitted from the start.)

They auctioned off rare records and rare posters. Stuff some people want. Stuff some people get enjoyment out of having. The people who bought them were excercising their own free will.

yeah, and the elephant in this room is that Pollard isn't much liked on ILX. BFD. And if you know the difference between commenting on taste and really giving a shit, you haven't displayed it yet.

It shouldn't matter to you anyway. It's none of your business why someone chooses to sell records and posters on ebay!

I brought it up to defend the ebay auctions, which you attacked as a bad thing.

But the base point is that whether you know the circumstances behind the auctions or not, it isn't your place to judge. The auctions shouldn't become okay just because you now know the reason for them. It was never your business in the first place. It's none of your business why anyone you don't know chooses to sell anything. Why make half-cocked assumptions about it?

I ain't holdin' my breath to hear the other half of that though which is why I'm still asking: what's it to you? customers satisfied with the product that nobody's asking you to buy: so fucking what?

xpost

Anthony makes assumptions because he doesn't like Pollard's music and he thinks that it's exploitative to sell as much as you can to your fans. Because, of course, Pollard's fans are a brainwashed cult of know-nothings, which is different than the cult of knuckle draggers who made, say, the Ying Yang Twins pop stars.

ahh, ironic distance...you are indie!

I like what Gerard Cosloy said in one of his blog posts just prior to the band's last hurrah: "For the actual human beings who purchase GBV records, having a lot to absorb is a blessing rather than a curse."

I also like the sentence that comes before that:
"The only people on earth who have a problem with Robert Pollard’s insane creative output are a) record company fucks who struggle to shift all of it (present company included) and b) self-styled guardians of quality control who are just as hung up on how their tastes reflect on themselves as they are the actual content of what they’re reviewing."

You're going to love that tnahcraM assiraM show.

xpost it may seem like I'm yelling but I'm just passionate! xoxo

that stopped being true for me around Waved Out

Eric, this 'passion' you detect is a serious projection.

A: because we're all gonna die someday

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,530,000 for michael faraday [definition]. (0.21 seconds)

I smell an exciting Interweb game here.

(PS Higher, innit?)

haha in a relative sense yes its energetic, but you'd be amazed how quickly and easily this stuff comes out while you're burning cds.

blount, anytime you want to get into it, do the whole working class pissing contest, go mano a mano, tete a tete, etc... im here.

I guess I don't know what kind of answer you people want for "why was the show empty?" The answer, given almost immediately, and still crystal clear, was, the show was $15 and that is way too much. Response: "Classic indie posturing!!!! You guys are trying to act like Bob Pollard is Ian MacKaye!!?K!K@@ it's awlays been about the D0LLAR$ and there's nothing wrong with that!!!"

I'm into people charging money for shows and making a buck on their music. That's totally rad. But if they charge so many bucks that they can't fill a room they could previously fill, then they've (as Blount very astutely pointed out) misread the market and that's about all there is to say about it.

also:

But if they charge so many bucks that they can't fill a room they could previously fill, then they've (as Blount very astutely pointed out) misread the market and that's about all there is to say about it.

your next argument needs to be that the room would be filled at $X per head.

But complicating that is that it wasn't the same act as before, as were the circumstances. Not to mention that Pollard almost certainly doesn't set ticket price directly anyway--he has an advance and the club agrees to that.

I do think there is something kind of weird about trying to maintain a long-term career in this fashion. Either somebody miscalculated the size of Bob's surviving cult, or they really, really don't care at all about enlarging that cult or otherwise getting people in the door who didn't see them the last nine times they were in town. Surely there's not much point in doing promo, Flagpole interviews, whatever, at all if you're already conceding that only that portion of your local cult that hasn't moved away will come. To the extent that the weak weather and the fact that it's not the exact same faceless band as previously would matter, they would matter LEAST to the people who were willing to shell out $15 in the first place. Those people, having made their investment, were going to come no matter what, right?

DING DING DING DING DING

xpost - yeah considering the people who were there were probably there no matter what to an extent they really could've gotten away with charging $20 and not taken a serious hit in attendance.

I'm leaning toward the latter.

that's one more beer I owe you J

p.s. you do know me, right?

It smells like the fucking Port Authority men's room in here.

Suspicion /=/ "deep abiding reactionary hatred"

(and how the fuck does an alternative writer completly miss hearing GBV between 1994 and 2004?)

some people listen to hundreds of albums a year, and some people listen to hundreds of GBV-related albums a year. I'm in the former category.

STAY HI-I-I-I-UH-I-I-I-IGH TIL I DI-I-I-I-UH-I-I-I-IE

PERPETUAL GROOVE MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

xpost: yeah, you're right noodle.

good thing I didn't say anything about ALL people, then, eh?

FOR THE DIE-HARDS, the price, within the range (let's say) 0-20, is irrelevant. But for people who are just bored on Thursday, or saw the Flagpole article, or who had always meant to see why this Guided By Voices guy was supposed to be so great, or whose friends or lovers were trying to get them to come along, the price matters a lot. Assuming I knew anybody who was trying to get me to go to the Pollard show (I don't - surprise!), I would have been maybe willing to say yes to something under $10, if I had a crush on the person (because I've discovered in the past that I hate his shows and need extra enticement). $15, though, I mean come on.

Your third point negates the first. (And your bait has a certain bitterness to it, which is not to say I won't rise again to it tomorrow.)

example:
(tix x price) = gross
250 x $15 = $3750
350 x $9 = $3150

it's just not that easy to assume that a $9 ticket price would have been the magic bullet.

I don't think Pollard, considering the size of his fanbase, is bothered about "people who are just bored on Thursday" though

Well, then, we've solved the ASTOUNDING RIDDLE then, eh? Robert Pollard played his first solo show last night to half empty crowd in Athens GA, because a half empty crowd is as many fans as he's got in Athens, and he doesn't want anybody else to come. Lock thread?

I always feel so weird in threads like this, because I certainly can't see eye to eye with the Pollard haters, but the hardcore Pollard cult members freak me out just as much - I've gone through his catalog, I've cherry picked a whole bunch of songs that I really love and there's some others that I like, but most of it is pretty ehhh. He's written more songs that I like than a lot of people who've written much better albums, and with the way I've listened to music in the past several years (on burned cds and playlists), that's fine enough for me. I don't ever need to listen to the lame stuff unless I go see one of his shows.

No wonder you people hate classical music.

yeah, but he always is.

I'm not sure why hardcore cult members would freak you out so much Matt--doncha think musical obsession on your own level is just as strange? That it's directed at one person (Pollard) by others doesn't seem all that odd given his vast recorded output and endless touring. It's easier, in fact, to be more concerned about people who obsess and become cultish over artists whose output is relatively miniscule (hello Jeff Buckley, Neutral Milk Hotel, etc.)

Wasn't this "Compound Eye" thing recorded and ready for release at the end of 2004? It's 2006 and, as far as I can tell, it's still not out in the UK.

p.s. worst thread ever

I don't think Matthew's freaked out by music fandom but by the specfic nature of GBV fandom, which he has had personal experience with.

however looks like he won't come to play in the UK or anywhere outside the US this year. Too expensive or something:-(( If he would play in London, I'm sure it wouldn't be "half empty"...but then he hasn't been here since 09/03...

Oh, sure, of course. But I think that maybe applies more to people who go out to see shows all the time as opposed to people like me who only want to see artists they are way into and are willing to pay whatever so long as it's affordable at the time the tickets on sale. $15 is a definitely lot to pay for a show that you're wishy washy about, but $40 or more can be a bargain to see something that has you extremely excited.

And I think that describes a large percentage of people in Athens.

I think what you need to do is take a step back and realize that the number of deranged Pollard fans (creepy/scary/sad/sociopathic) is part of the whole myth surrounding the guy. Yes, there are a few Postal Blowfish nutballs but bands who have a reliable following for more than a few years always have those freaker types. But with GBV, as in Real Life, it's way easy to let the fringes define the rest. The only difference is that now, the fringe appears to be larger because the Internets connect them way better than some shitty, photocopied fanclub newsletter. The Internets make things more polarized than they really are.

I never claimed to be too poor to go to Bob Pollard, nor did anybody else on this thread that I can tell. This isn't some sort of lame class issue, it's a calm statement on whether or not a given entertainment feels like it's worth my dollars, which are hard-earned no matter my standard of living. I have yet to see a refutation of my Brokeback Mountain comparison above. If they charged $15 to go to that and you saw somebody arguing that the half-empty theaters were due SOLELY to gay panic and that the price had NOTHING to do with it you'd be beaten up just like those Bloomberg Republicans who tried to start clapping along at my half empty show at the 40 Watt yesterday.

Or not.

Back to your earlier comment, GBV fans are not 'uncritical.' Every lineup change brings with it a massive warring between the different camps who either love or hate the newest member(s). And every album and every new producer elicits similar outcry. If anything, I think they're overly critical, but you'd never admit that.

And I stand by my comments about class. When the first dude made a big deal about the tix being $10, I was 99% sure he was being sarcastic. My lunch will probably cost almost that much, and it's not like I'm eating at Blue Ribbon.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. I just reread that comment. The Stones charge $10 for tickets? Son of a bitch! The real issue here is that you're a cheap fuck. You must live in some pretty squalid conditions.

xpost spotted cow: i might or might not think it's weird, but if SOMEBODY ELSE didn't speculate into thin air in total confusion why their shows were half-empty, I probably wouldn't give it a second thought.

Yeah. I moonlight doing that.

I will concur with Dr. Casino on the listed prices for things in Athens. I have occasionally paid more than $10 for a 40 Watt show, but usually in a special situation (e.g., Flaming Lips was somewhere in the $15 neighborhood, but it's nice to see a band like that in a smaller venue [and, fwiw, I'd still consider the 40 Watt this, even though it's one of the larger places in Athens; 800 capacity? something like that?]; ditto Gang of Four).

yr thinking the wrong way ned! i'm following marissa's lead and charging $1000 for tickets! that way, we only need one person to go! quit being part of the anti-talent movement!

blount, i get what you're saying. i have no argument with you, really. just putting in another perspective. i'd be happy to complain that bob played madison and complained the whole time. but he's not even coming here, and i'd like him to. i'm envious athens is such a popular draw that bob plays there so much

How dare you impugn the fandom of people in Rice Lake.

ask H20 (or do you have to call him Mr. Chunklet up there in Athens) why Atlanta blows goats as an indie scene. And if you don't like that version, I'm sure Jeff Clark would be happy to spout off. Hell, take a look at Creative Loafing and try to find signs of life in that music section. Besides, THE ATL IS THE HOME OF THE DIRTY SOUTH. CRUNK CITY!

Part of the problem is that all the clubs are spread around town, part of the problem is that our version of bohemia utopia seems to fluctuate (yeah, it's been East Atlanta for a half dozen years but people are always trying to find the next trendiest spot to call cool.)

as for the loafing, well, isn't their MO basically to ignore the most vibrant rap scene in the country in favor of the latest bunch of crackers to storm the alt-country scene or what the fuck ever? fuck those dicksucking honkey pieces of shit, they can eat a pile of cocks.

parallel lines on a slow decline . . .

get a fucking life

and listen to some good music for a change

the falcons have sold out every game every year vick's been here, and did better than you'd guess previously considering their 'never had back-to-back winning seasons (STILL)' history. the braves still draw very well, not like the yanks or bosox or cards but baseball isn't king down here and the team's been a strange brew of disappointment since jim leyritz (esp since it became just another time warner property). football's definitely king, college esp. (the dawgs could go bowless for three years and they're still selling out every game no prob).

i'd probably take creative loafing over flagpole but the closest thing georgia has to a decent alt-weakly is probably southern voice, maybe having a focus helps them. creative loafing's never really seemed to know what the hell it wants to do or have any sort've identity (perfect for atlanta in a way), flagpole's had intermittant moments of vitality - j0hn britt, brad 4aron - but in general 'eh', it started out as a straight vehicle for club promotion then predictable scene boosterism and now not even that really with nothing replacing it. when it was litterally j4red bailey's propaganda rag basically it still felt fresher, more 'alternative' and 'in the know' i guess. it definitely felt more connected to the town (hillary's pretty great food column is one of the few things in it that makes it anything other than a 'less hard news version of the red and black'). but yeah obv nothing remotely comparing to the what the twin cities got (can you imagine how bizarre griel marcus's real life top ten would look in creative loafing? like stonehenge in a shopping center). i can get how atlanta doesn't have a better local indie scene - athens' scene came about cuz of 1) jim herbert and the art school 2) cheap housing 3) georgia square mall creating alot of empty, cheap space downtown 4) nothing better to do 5) see #4 6) house parties - and then sorta kept on thru the peaks and valleys thru hucksterism of a determined few and r.e.m. and the b's (and to a lesser extent guadalcanal diary's and some other bands i'm forgetting probably) success inspiring/fooling other kids to do the same. obv atlanta didn't quite have this enviroment (and of course there were atlanta bands that moved to athens or said they were from athens in their presskits, etc.), and probably doesn't still (esp since rockabilly like refuses to die in atlanta right???) but it still seems odd to me that with emory and tech and ga state and all the indie kids from uga and auburn and wherever that are now in atlanta and have a lil more income that my odds of seeing black dice or love is all or whoever in a room with 400 people are about even between athens or atlanta or at least not tilted heavily in atlanta's favor. i could be wrong - i mean atlanta does have venues like the tabernacle or variety playhouse and while wilco or whoever might play the civic center up here it's still pretty 'wtf' when they do it, whereas in atlanta it's just another friday, but if i am wrong i don't think i'm as wrong as i should be. it perplexes me!

in a town where the braves' perennial postseason appearances draw yawns...

"Pixies... $60
Gang of Four... $45
Robert Pollard... Priceless"

haha...

i've also seen three completly piss poor GBV shows...connection?

Are the appellations "indie" and "alt" somehow in reference to performers who play their instruments amateurishly and incessantly sing out of tune, whether by contrivance, laziness, or artifice? If so, I don't catch the sequitir.
Good day.