matisyahu

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dudes got no flow and his lyrics suck

― cowbear (chaki), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 10:17 (nineteen years ago)

He's the Hassidic Snow, yeah.

― The Man in the Iron-On Mask (noodle vague), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 10:36 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah dude...If he spells it "G_d", Why doesn't he say that he worships "Gid"? That's what um I'm wondering...

I saw him recently, by the way...he has a couple of decent songs, at least!

― LoneNut, Tuesday, 31 January 2006 10:44 (nineteen years ago)

311's got the jew y'all

― cowbear (chaki), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 11:25 (nineteen years ago)

http://studentorgs.utexas.edu/cjso/images/matisyahu.jpg

― cowbear (chaki), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 11:32 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.hasidicreggae.com/files/2005/11/28/23/17/45/matis_death_cab.jpg

― cowbear (chaki), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 11:33 (nineteen years ago)

OK If you guys REALLY want to hear something funny, I was watching the Simpsons one day, and they were showing these "rapping rabbis". They all got clocks around their necks and then point to this pig saying, "can't touch this"! Later on at night I see this dude, Matisyahu, and I could not believe my freaking eyes!! It was like the joke had come to life!

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 21:37 (nineteen years ago)

I'm happy that college students are being given a message of love and unity.

― Zwan (miccio), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 21:39 (nineteen years ago)

Cause G-d knows dorm halls could use a little more reggae.

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 21:44 (nineteen years ago)

if i had that whole covenant with God going for me, i probably wouldn't be too caught up with my flow either.

― wolves (wolves), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 21:47 (nineteen years ago)

this guy is like the easiest target in ILM history

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 21:52 (nineteen years ago)

I'm telling you, I really could not believe my eyes!! The episode was a pretty old one, it almost seemed as if it predicted the future!

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 21:54 (nineteen years ago)

I wonder if he's a hero to repressed Orthdox teens.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 21:56 (nineteen years ago)

this guy is like the easiest target in ILM history

Except for a former member of Gay Dad.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 21:57 (nineteen years ago)

Ok. I can see the irony is lost on all of you, I guess you had to be there....

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 22:10 (nineteen years ago)

no, it's just not *that* funny.

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 22:12 (nineteen years ago)

AAAAAAAA, WELL I NEVER!!......... So you're telling me the irony isn't lost then?

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 22:15 (nineteen years ago)

Now I'm recalling the Simpsons episode where Homer perfects some technique that starts putting chiropractors out of business and when one of them starts to threaten him, Homer continuallu asks him to "note the irony."

Would that, in itself, be ironic?

― Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 23:26 (nineteen years ago)

"The irony! The IRONY!!"

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 23:30 (nineteen years ago)

"It's like RAAAAAAAAAin..."

― Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 23:33 (nineteen years ago)

I couldn't remember if that was the Simpsons or Family Guy. Matisyahu works in mysterious ways!

― patita (patita), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 23:37 (nineteen years ago)

The mystery is that douches like Carson Daly are all like, "This is the new thing, this is great,oh, you gotta check it out," when the Simpsons did it first! :-)

― xgurggleglgllg (xgurggleglgllg), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 23:43 (nineteen years ago)

one month passes...

He is a false prophet.

(so say his ex-managers who have been dumped)

― StanM (StanM), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 13:58 (nineteen years ago)

I stand before you today a remorseful Dr. Frankenstein.

woah, this dude is serious!

― grady (grady), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 15:53 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.slate.com/id/2138032/

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:09 (nineteen years ago)

great piece.

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:11 (nineteen years ago)

good lord - my opinion of Laswell just plummeted to new depths.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:18 (nineteen years ago)

because he produced an artist you don't like?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:21 (nineteen years ago)

nah he's done that before. I would just hope he would know better than to associate himself with the stupidest gimmick since the "SuperBowl Shuffle".

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:25 (nineteen years ago)

yeah jews should stick to the cantorials huh

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:27 (nineteen years ago)

Oh come on now. It is a gimmick, and calling it one is not a suggestion that everybody "act their race."

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:35 (nineteen years ago)

After reading (endlessly) the factoid that he no longer "slamdances" since he doesn't want to touch strange women, and his quote in Rolling Stone about turning down a chance to duet with Eve because the Torah forbids women to sing in public, I quickly went from thinking he was a bad novelty act to thinking he was a scary, hypocritical religious fanatic.

― T/S: Pinks/Oki Dog/Scoobys/Tail o' the Pup (Bent Over at the Arclight), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:38 (nineteen years ago)

Eeeew.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:39 (nineteen years ago)

before he was Matisyahu, he was Matthew Miller, White Plains, N.Y., native and student at the New School University in Greenwich Village. Most tellingly, he was a dreadlocked Phish fanatic

FALSE ALARM - IT'S JUST THOSE HIPPIES AGAIN

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:39 (nineteen years ago)

Yup. Rosen makes a rather courageous point about "Jewface."

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:42 (nineteen years ago)

i keep expecting to see "stay in school" flash across the screen when i happen upon that video of his

― latebloomer aka rembrandt, the fifth ninja turtle (latebloomer), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:44 (nineteen years ago)

fwiw i don't think he's faking his identity as a hasid

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:47 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.egokippot.com/images/grateful_dead_bear02.jpg

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:57 (nineteen years ago)

"fwiw i don't think he's faking his identity as a hasid"

Does that really matter?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 21:57 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.egokippot.com/images/federal-bureau-investigation.jpg

omg this site is a goldmine http://www.egokippot.com/personalized-kippah.htm

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 22:01 (nineteen years ago)

I'm Jewish, it is a gimmick, and I have massive issues with Hasids and their Jewish fundie schtick (which I find deeply offensive and oppressive)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 22:03 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think he's faking it any more than Madonna believes she is a Kabbalah scholar. Matisyahu is a Lubavitcher Hasid - notorious as the guys who hang around street corners like Hare Krishnas whispering "Hey, are you Jewish?" to kids who "look Jewish" and "lost."

― T/S: Pinks/Oki Dog/Scoobys/Tail o' the Pup (Bent Over at the Arclight), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 22:07 (nineteen years ago)

Todd Barry has a great bit about yarmulkes with "fun" designs on them that I won't butcher here with paraphrasing.

― T/S: Pinks/Oki Dog/Scoobys/Tail o' the Pup (Bent Over at the Arclight), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 22:12 (nineteen years ago)

xpost those jews are LOCO

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 22:13 (nineteen years ago)

I'd have more respect for him if he'd affiliated himself with those superhero-costume black Israelites you see in Times Square.

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 22:32 (nineteen years ago)

Normally I enjoy Jody Rosen's reviews, but I think he gets a little hysterical in this one. "minstrelsy"? - I don't think so. And I don't think the collaboration with P.O.D. is really anything to be alarmed about (except for possibly the lousy music it might produce).

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 22:47 (nineteen years ago)

I mean this is hardly the first time white folks have done reggae: Eric Clapton, UB40, the Specials, Robert Palmer - the list goes on and on. I don't see why it's so alarming just because the guy is Hasidic.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 22:52 (nineteen years ago)

oh wow was he out of tune on conan. zero charisma.

― geoff (gcannon), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 22:53 (nineteen years ago)

>"minstrelsy"? - I don't think so.

Why not, exactly? I think he lays it out pretty ably. And I didn't feel like he was using the word minstrelsy in a damning way - just stating the facts.

― pdf (Phil Freeman), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 22:53 (nineteen years ago)

I think the Hasidic part is the alarming part. Well that and the fact that people seem to be buying it despite the fact that it's apparently not very good.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 22:54 (nineteen years ago)

i don't think he's necessarily equating minstrelsy with a cause for alarm, however - just calling it what it is, and i think convincingly arguing the point via matiswhatever's forced patois.

― philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 22:55 (nineteen years ago)

But why is Matisyahu minstrelsy if the others I listed are not? That's the part I don't get. Because he wears funny clothes?

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 22:59 (nineteen years ago)

i think he's saying he's that Matisyahu is the last in a long line of minstrels...

― grady (grady), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 23:00 (nineteen years ago)

Including Eric Clapton, Robert Palmer, UB40, the Specials, et al? Is he really claiming they're all minstrel acts? That would be news to me.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 23:01 (nineteen years ago)

And to claim that accusing someone of "minstrelsy" in this day and age is a neutral observation and not in any way damning is somewhat naive, I think.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 23:03 (nineteen years ago)

That Slate article starts to hit on something I've been thinking about for a while now at the end. There's a great essay waiting to be written on Matisyahu and the displacement of morality. The argument goes that his appeal to young, middleclass, white kids is that in listening to him they can "take on" his moral code (no sex, strong and strict religious faith) and get rid of some of the guilt they feel for being slutty, not going to church, and having minimal self-discipline. And since he's so much of a fucking cartoon the listener escapes any charges of ACTUAL interest in religion, unlike Christian rock.

― Sean Braudis (Sean Braudis), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 23:05 (nineteen years ago)

Appropriating a culture's music does not a minstrel make. Forcing a patois and making a grab for a very specific, ethnic-identified mysticism does. What Rosen says is that Matisyahu uses his "lesser Otherness" as an absurd but effective inroad into Caribbean authenticity.

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 23:05 (nineteen years ago)

i was refering to:

From Irving Berlin's blackface ragtime numbers to Al Jolson's mammy songs—from jazz clarinetist Mezz Mezzrow, who passed as black, to Bob Dylan, who channeled the cadences of black bluesmen, to the Beastie Boys—successive generations of Jewish musicians have used the blackface mask to negotiate Jewish identity and have made some great art in the process.

Matisyahu is the latest in this line, and while his music is at best pedestrian, his minstrel routine may be the cleverest and most subtle yet.

― grady (grady), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 23:05 (nineteen years ago)

What Rosen says is that Matisyahu uses his "lesser Otherness" as an absurd but effective inroad into Caribbean authenticity.

I think that's a load of BS. He's wearing the garb of his own social group - he's not making inroads on anyone's "authenticity". He doesn't claim to be Caribbean.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 23:08 (nineteen years ago)

And as far as the "patois" argument goes, lots of those other people I mentioned affected a bit of Caribbean phrasing and pronunciation in their own reggae recordings.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 23:10 (nineteen years ago)

o.nate, read christgau's piece in the 2005 da capo best-of book....

― philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Tuesday, 14 March 2006 23:10 (nineteen years ago)

He's the feature interview in the brand new Onion A/V club. I wish Noel Murray wouldn't have been so generous with the softballs.

http://www.avclub.com/content/node/46284

― T/S: Pinks/Oki Dog/Scoobys/Tail o' the Pup (Bent Over at the Arclight), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 00:31 (nineteen years ago)

Nate -- one difference here w/ the others you mentioned is that this guy does all his songs that way, as opposed to Clapton or Robert Palmer. The Jamaican patois is the essence of his vocal style not just something he throws in every once in a while for effect. And yeah, after reading a bit about minstrelsy (including the Christgau piece Philip mentioned) I don't see use of the term quite as damning as I once did. I didn't feel like Rosen was making much of a judgment about it -- he didn't say it was offensive unless I missed it. Personally, I like gimmicky characters like this in the pop landscape every once in a while.

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 00:47 (nineteen years ago)

I don't really see Matisyahu as being gimmicky. Now, dressing up in an Elvis suit and doing reggae versions of Led Zeppelin songs (as Dred Zeppelin did) is gimmicky. A Hasidic guy who happens to play reggae music is not in itself a gimmicky act.

Perhaps a marketing person might crassly speak of being Hasidic as Matisyahu's "gimmick", but I'm willing to accept that he is probably quite sincere in his faith (and in his love for reggae) and that neither aspect of his image is a gimmick.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 01:32 (nineteen years ago)

I don't doubt his sincerity at all, I think the gimmick I'm speaking of has more to do with the way he is marketed and covered in the media (only some of which he has control over). I believe he really digs this music and enjoys making it but, you know, since he spent most of his life outside this faith, he has to have some idea of how it appears to people, and that it's a bit of a novelty.

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 01:48 (nineteen years ago)

"fwiw i don't think he's faking his identity as a hasid"

Does that really matter?

in the context of "jewface"? yeah, kinda, don't you think?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:22 (nineteen years ago)

honestly i'm drunk right now so i am not going to try and articulate this very well, plus perhaps i am being overly defensive bcz he is a friend of a friend, but uh... i dunno. like i said i'm drunk

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:23 (nineteen years ago)

gawd, who cares about the "fake patois". it's part of the genre...and, just as a point of information, snow actually gets respect in dancehall circles, as does the extremely white and german gentleman--a guy who is bilingual in jamaican and deutch. the problem i find with matisyahu is that the music just isn't good enough for me--i want to hear him produced by a dave kelly or a donovan germain, not bill laswell. bill laswell is a dub fanatic; this is hardly the type of music i want to hear under some admittedly decent chatting. i don't think that i can properly judge matisyahu unless i hear him over a proper riddim. let's hear him on the drop leaf, fuck!

― cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:32 (nineteen years ago)

oh, and s1ocki, i'm drunk too. damn those cinq a septs!

― cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:33 (nineteen years ago)

haha! where?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:34 (nineteen years ago)

But but but Cybele, I thought the only real music was dub and all that dancehall stuff was soulless sell-out music. A white rock critic told me so!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:34 (nineteen years ago)

(I wish to visit Montreal and get drunk with Slocki and Cybele, they being good and noble souls.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:34 (nineteen years ago)

ah, the tapas at taza flores is always excellent as is the beer.

― cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:35 (nineteen years ago)

no shit,.... my gf used to work there!! i was with our collective "boss"

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:35 (nineteen years ago)

al south himself, eh?

― cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:36 (nineteen years ago)

yeah yeah... now i'm considering a trip to "videoself"... anyway i feel bad that this topic is now off-topic

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:37 (nineteen years ago)

oh, and btw, i really think my piece this week is taking the t.o. / mtl divide a little too far...
wait, am i supposed to be talking about hasidic reggae? whoops...

― cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:37 (nineteen years ago)

Yay drunken Canadian fun!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:38 (nineteen years ago)

just to bring it all back to what we're supposed to be talking about (before i go and watch house...the best show evah!), i had a number of really interesting conversations with rastas in jamaica about the fact that i live in a hasidic neighbourhood...they specifically asked me about hasidism and wanted me to describe what hasidic people wear, what i know about them, etc. they felt that there was real connection between themselves as rastafari and the hasidim.

― cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:39 (nineteen years ago)

honestly i totally understand the ilm skepticism (and the slate skepticism), i guess i'm either just being the devils' adv. or i'm just reacting to kneejerkism

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:40 (nineteen years ago)

(that was an xpost, but yeah what i liked about that article was the parallels j rosen was drawing b/w the two)

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:41 (nineteen years ago)

Well, out of curiosity, what about that first post in the revive? From the ex-manager?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:41 (nineteen years ago)

i agree...more reggae = more fun.

― cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:41 (nineteen years ago)

(and i find that people bring up the phish-fandom and conversion thing as if it somehow debunks his hasidic faith, or somehow makes him easier to dismiss, which i think is kinda bs)

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:42 (nineteen years ago)

and re: the first post... i mean musician acting shitty towards mgmt shockah! i don't think it really means much one way or another. from where i or anybody else on this thread stand that is.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:43 (nineteen years ago)

Fair nuff.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:43 (nineteen years ago)

hell..look at a million jamaican dudes singing all about di ooman dem and pump up all pum pum and then switching it up to be all rasta...are we pissed off at that?

― cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:43 (nineteen years ago)

i mean it obv sucks for jdub, who i'm to understand are cool people, and it sucks for people who put a certain moral faith in him, which i don't really think you should be doing with a musician anyway.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:44 (nineteen years ago)

like if we found out vybz kartel dumped his manager you think ilm would really care?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:45 (nineteen years ago)

s1ocki otm

― cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:47 (nineteen years ago)

but it seems we're preaching to each other's choir (to drop a churchical ref)

― cybele (cybele), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:47 (nineteen years ago)

dudes got no flow and his lyrics suck

― chaki (chaki), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:49 (nineteen years ago)

Chaki brings the pain!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:49 (nineteen years ago)

(And brings the thread full circle. ;-))

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:49 (nineteen years ago)

hahaha i was expecting someone to drop in with something like that, we were asking for it

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:50 (nineteen years ago)

(esp since i was thinking "i guess someone's gonna say something like what it says at the top of the htread, 'dude's got no flow and his lyrics suck'")

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:50 (nineteen years ago)

but its true. his rhymes are elementary and his voice is undeniably weak.

― chaki (chaki), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 02:51 (nineteen years ago)

i find that people bring up the phish-fandom and conversion thing as if it somehow debunks his hasidic faith, or somehow makes him easier to dismiss

I don't think anyone's saying it debunks his faith. but musically speaking it totally makes him easy to dismiss--dude, Phish suck!

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 03:21 (nineteen years ago)

ain't no time to hate Matos

― gritty sanskrit (sanskrit), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 03:23 (nineteen years ago)

but seriously, i don't know what sux more, Phish fandom, or bad reggae.

― gritty sanskrit (sanskrit), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 03:25 (nineteen years ago)

the two seem not entirely unrelated

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 03:31 (nineteen years ago)

i agree phish suck! but i'm sure lots of musicians i like were once into, or are still into, music i don't like! i don't really care!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 04:01 (nineteen years ago)

someone gave me 2 of his albums tonight. i no want to listen now -phish. also the titles bother me.

― Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 05:55 (nineteen years ago)

I'm still kind of confused as to what I think about this guy in terms of his social standing. Musically I came to the conclusion that he sucked balls after 2 seconds of listening to what sounded like a casio keyboard "jungle" setting with some guy making fun of beat boxing over it.

Other aspects leave me dangling. Is it okay to appropriate another culture? Is their a right way and wrong way to do this; and if so what are they? Is there a way a white guy could play a Jamaican/Carribean based music without him being accused of stealing another culture's art in a shameless ploy to make more money off of it than an actual Jamaican or Carribean artist working today ever could?

If most music is based off of appropriation (Elvis playing what was considered a black idiom; countless examples of cross cultural influence and misinterpretation spawning all sorts of genres) is this just part of the way music is made?

After reading the New York Times article on this guy by Kelefa Sanneh I go into a discussion about this with a friend. As much as I disliked his music, I still wanted to defend his right to make it. Who are we to say who can and cannot make which sort of music they want to? Of course, my friend refuted by saying that the idea of the rights of "The Artist" which must always be guarded is a very old Bourgie perspective, that basically ignores that there are other artists right now, making music in the exact same style he is, doing it better, and will not make nearly as much money as he is, basically because they're black.

I guess I'm back to where I started then. If the dude loves dub raggae seriously, in what way could he do it? Should he sing about shopping at the Vegan co-op and how annoying it is combing that beard he has and other assorted "real," White Plains-y issues he goes through? She he keep preaching the same middle of the road spiritual bullshit but drop the accent? Which way would be... uhmm... right?

Maybe he would just have to do it, and not suck.

― Harmonica winds, Wednesday, 15 March 2006 06:36 (nineteen years ago)

On the flipside, should an artist's absolute conviction in his or her or their art absolve/release him/her/them from criticism? I shudder if that's our critical bar.

I don't think anyone is saying Matishayu shouldn't do what he does, I think it's more 3 things:
1) That he does what he dose
2) That a label with Mr. Laswell's help decided to put it out
3) That the press decided to hype and talk about him
4) That the throngs of us consumers decided to buy it

It's hard to believe that steps 2 and 3 were realised without any sense that this is a novelty.

Also, I remember how much Finley Quaye was ridiculed, so I don't think this criticism of Matis is based on some anti-religious affilitation slur.

I mean, if Yo Yo Ma came out with a regga album, it would either be a 1) non-story because it's so stupid or 2) massively ridiculed, right?

― Minimaxi, Wednesday, 15 March 2006 13:32 (nineteen years ago)

And 3 should be 4. And peace should be unto our Earf.

― Minimaxi, Wednesday, 15 March 2006 13:32 (nineteen years ago)

I'm a big fan of appropriating alien cultural tools and tropes in order to further my own insane fundamentalist religious agenda but come on, this guy is terrible.

― adam (adam), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 14:18 (nineteen years ago)

so, uh, where does Sinead O'Connor's reggae album fit into all this?

― Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 14:30 (nineteen years ago)

What is her singing like on that record? I haven't heard it. I guess Willie Nelson, too.

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 14:32 (nineteen years ago)

Yo-Yo Ma would only put out an amazing reggae album, or none at all.

There is always a space for experimentation, especially with new faiths and their trappings - here, rasta and reggae, Dylan's Christian period, etc.

The problem is when people drop their critical bars because they don't want to be seen as treading on what is a fundamental right here, at least in the US, - freedom of religion. But a whole lot of sanctified expression can't cover crappy singing, bad beats, and lame production.

I, for one, have not heard this guy. I'd be willing to, if for no other reason than I am always willing to listen to some new music. But if its weak, its weak.

― Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 14:55 (nineteen years ago)

The question, though, is, even if it's weak, is it reasonable to point to his "conversion" in a stylistic sense as a source of criticism, and/or to mention his conversion at all as above posts and many articles do? It's the age-old question of content versus context.

Are we saying, Matishayu sucks because he's a shallow imitation of true reggae, which is only reinforced by the fact that he converted to reggae from being a Phishead?

― Minimaxi, Wednesday, 15 March 2006 15:21 (nineteen years ago)

Unfortunately, I think a lot of young musicians (myself included) at one point listened to Phish. To a large extent, this fandom opened up the opportunity to be exposed to other music otherwise never heard prior. I don't think that this is necessarily a damning life resume entry.

But it CAN connote a sort of musical tourism that can take away from claims of spiritual depth to one's music - here, reggae from a Hasidic Jew. Especially with recently post-college kids whose ability to access HUGE varieties of music, I think you find a degree of musical ADD - no real study (repeated listenings, actually learning how to play, determining what went into the song) of the music they listen to. Hence, at least in my mind, the popularity of craptastic dorm rockers like Jack Johnson and John Mayer. There's very little substance to their playing, but often a whole lot of notes.

I regularly play in a montly blooze jam - I recognize what it is, but its still fun to go and rip some old Howlin' Wolf tunes with a competent rhythm section. The jam gets bad, however, when dudes get up and play nothing but SRV and The Fabulous Thunderbirds. It devolves into Bluesaoke. Is Matisyahu Reggaeaoke?

― Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 15:31 (nineteen years ago)

It devolves into Bluesaoke

I think the word you are looking for is.....

BLUESHAMMER

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 15:38 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, that, too. Its such a shame, too, because these guys have at least a modicum of talent, but spend their time playing soulful songs.

I'm just there to act like an idiot and blow off some steam and hopefully play some good music. I ain't trying to get all sanctified with a cover of "Tuff Enuff."

― Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 15:42 (nineteen years ago)

soulful = soul that is awful

― Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 15:44 (nineteen years ago)

On another note, what constitutes young musician? I just realised that I was going, yeah! I'm a young musician too, only to realise, that, in the not-so-far-off future, I will be be beyond my 20's, to which the term young no longer applies. On the other hand, Pharrell Williams is 32! Weird.

― Minimaxi, Wednesday, 15 March 2006 15:44 (nineteen years ago)

Big Loud, I don't mean to scare you but I just found something terrifying:

Holy hell, there really IS a Blueshammer!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 15:45 (nineteen years ago)

Young musician = someone who still feels like they aren't in a rut?

I don't know - it sounds like we're around the same age. I don't see myself as an old man, but maybe I am

Ned - that is AWESOME. I want a t-shirt with that logo on it.

― Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 15:54 (nineteen years ago)

I really am amazed. And you can buy T-shirts from them! It's on the page I linked!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 15:55 (nineteen years ago)

Now, the question is which color - white or black - shall we send to Matisyahu? White, so he can wear it with his black suit, or black so he can wear it in lieu of his black suit?

― Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 16:00 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, I say one of each.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 16:01 (nineteen years ago)

so, uh, where does Sinead O'Connor's reggae album fit into all this?

Sinead's album is disturbingly wrong, where Yahu's is just lame. This is a testament to her (and Sly & Robbie's) talent.

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 16:26 (nineteen years ago)

Just for the record, in my Slate piece I wasn't passing judgment on Matisyahu's minstrel act -- wasn't impugning his "authenticity" and certainly wasn't condemning him as racist. I was just trying to unpack his persona and music a bit. I think his music stinks because his music stinks, not because he affects a ridiculous Jamaican accent. As for minstrelsy, for me it's a *fact* of musical history, and in all but the most outrageous cases not a "sin." (And even where it is offensive, that doesn't mean the music's not great. Cf. Al Jolson.) There's so much cultural appropriation and mask wearing that goes on in pop music I don't know how one would determine authenticity at this late date. But to ignore the minstrel roots and resonances of Matisyahu is to miss much of what gives his act its force -- what makes it interesting, despite its essential musical suckiness. Anyway, that's what I was after in my article.

― Jody, Wednesday, 15 March 2006 16:35 (nineteen years ago)

i wonder if i would have stepped up to the plate for this guy if i'd actually heard his music (which i haven't, besides a guest spot he did on a friend's album which was really nice, singing "eliahu").

i'm kind of embarrassed that i drunkenly posted to this thread last night.

but thank you for that clarification jody--although i think that stuff all came out in your article, which i really liked.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 17:30 (nineteen years ago)

Sublime >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matishayu

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 17:33 (nineteen years ago)

I just wish he had able to perform at Live 8.

― Zwan (miccio), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 17:34 (nineteen years ago)

been able, rather

― Zwan (miccio), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 17:34 (nineteen years ago)

Jody- nice piece.

I just listened to the whole album and yes it does suck. At times it actually made me wish i were listening to Sublime. haha xpost.

But I still think its really powerful (and not gimmicky) to see a Hasid who takes his faith and art seriously being MTV and popular radio.

we need to do a TS: Matisyahu's "Youth" VS. THIS RECORD.

― grady (grady), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 17:47 (nineteen years ago)

"I'm a big fan of appropriating alien cultural tools and tropes in order to further my own insane fundamentalist religious agenda but come on, this guy is terrible.
-- adam (hexenductio...), March 15th, 2006."

The OTMest of the OTM.

― T/S: Pinks/Oki Dog/Scoobys/Tail o' the Pup (Bent Over at the Arclight), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 17:48 (nineteen years ago)

That earlier Rolling Stone quote:

"In January at the Sundance Film Festival, he said no when Eve wanted to jump up onstage -- Talmudic law restricts contact between the sexes and forbids women from singing in public. When Christian rockers P.O.D. invited him to sing on their new album, Testify, he had to vet the lyrics to make sure there was no mention of Jesus. Even at shows, he has to watch himself. "There's always one drunk girl who runs up to give me a hug," he says. "I have to pull away, and they just feel rejection.""

― T/S: Pinks/Oki Dog/Scoobys/Tail o' the Pup (Bent Over at the Arclight), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 17:50 (nineteen years ago)

religious dudes be religious!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 17:51 (nineteen years ago)

not that i think that excuses those attitudes, but i'm not surprised either

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 17:51 (nineteen years ago)

Is the holiest of holy marijuana sacred in the Torah?

I thought he was an Ali G prank when I first saw him.

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 17:59 (nineteen years ago)

Da herb mon.

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 17:59 (nineteen years ago)

Rastas are Bible-thumping sexist apocalyptic religious wack-jobs too, so it doesn't seem that much of a stretch for a kid to be attracted to both reggae and ultra-orthodox Judaism. Plus pop fans tend to like all kinds of moralizers - from P.O.D. to U2 - a lot more than critics do because pop audiences can see anything as entertainment; critics want things to mean what the performer says they mean and get mad when they don't, regular people don't give as much of a fuck. seems to me anyway, but i'm guessing.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 18:16 (nineteen years ago)

I didn't read the article, but a clarification on the above: Torah does not forbid women to sing in public, but men are forbidden to listen to women singing. Something about igniting the yetzer hora (evil inclination). Women can sing for all-female audiences all they want.

This is one reason I never went all the way with being a ba'al teshuvah awhile back. A majority of my record collection features female vocals or players. I knew I could never make that leap.

― mike a, Wednesday, 15 March 2006 18:22 (nineteen years ago)

Right, right - thanks for clarifying that point.

― T/S: Pinks/Oki Dog/Scoobys/Tail o' the Pup (Bent Over at the Arclight), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 18:25 (nineteen years ago)

Note that I don't see Orthodox Jews as "wack-jobs" for believing this. They see the Torah as the supreme law, and would probably see us as the wack-jobs for believing otherwise. This is fine - the nice thing about Judaism is that it doesn't prosetlyze, and even if Lubavichers do try to appeal to unaffiliated Jews, it's not as if they're forcibly dragging you into the Mitzvah Mobile and driving you to Crown Heights against your will. You can say no.

Most ba'al teshuvah I've met are wonderful, non-judgmental people. It tends to be the newest, most rapid converts who are the most intolerant and judgmental - they're quick to judge even if they don't have the basic halachah down yet.

― mike a, Wednesday, 15 March 2006 18:28 (nineteen years ago)

fritz otm, mike a pretty otm too. despite my problems with various aspects of the hasidic community it still bothers me that they seem like the jewish group it's ok to talk shit about (esp among jews, actually)

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

I figure its my people, I can say whatever I want about them.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 18:42 (nineteen years ago)

yeah - also, they started it.

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 18:51 (nineteen years ago)

(sorry, i have ultra-orthodox relatives and friends & i love them but they are indeed wack-jobs but mike's point is well taken)

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:00 (nineteen years ago)

are they really "your people"? is it ok for protestants to bash catholics?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:02 (nineteen years ago)

Ah, religion, only in America. And the third world.

― jimnaseum (jimnaseum), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:06 (nineteen years ago)

well according to them I AM one of them, just one who has "gone astray" - so don't act like I'm the only one casting aspersions here. When it comes to sectarian disputes within my religious community, I think I'm entitled to my opinion as a lifelong member - I've been bar mitzvah'd, I've read my tanakh, I've gone to high holy day services, my dad was president of the Temple, blah blah blah.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:06 (nineteen years ago)

"despite my problems with various aspects of the hasidic community it still bothers me that they seem like the jewish group it's ok to talk shit about (esp among jews, actually)"

Really? I hear jews talking shit about other groups of jews all the time! Maybe the Hasids are the one group jews are most united in thinking are batshit crazy, but that makes them no different from let's say certain Mormon or Quaker sects or whomever in just being a little too off for most "mainstream" members of their own religion.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:13 (nineteen years ago)

"is it ok for protestants to bash catholics?"

What do you consider bashing? Treating with a great deal of skepticism and a fair amount of disbelief isn't the same as beating people senseless in bars.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:16 (nineteen years ago)

It's not like Christians are the only ones allowed to criticize fundamentalist Christians, or that Muslims are the only ones allowed to criticize fundamentalist Muslims, so it seems strange to me that one would have to be Jewish in order to criticize fundamentalist Jews. Hell, anyone can criticize any group, that's freedom of speech, right?

My problem with labeling Matisyahu as a minstrel is not that Hasids should be above criticism, but rather than it seems like he is drawing criticism specifically because of his religion. If he were not Hasidic, I don't think he would be drawing the level of criticism about his "authenticity" that he seems to be drawing.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:19 (nineteen years ago)

All cultural sensitivities and supreme laws aside, I'll continue to feel free to talk shit about any group that holds such oppressive and aggressive views towards women (and/or homosexuals, nonbelievers, etc.).

And I take particular exception to the specifically onerous bigots who cynically pick and choose their battles in the name of their faith (i.e. - "duet with Eve? She's a woman!" vs. "throw "King Without a Crown" video on "TRL"? Sure, why not! Preach!"

― T/S: Pinks/Oki Dog/Scoobys/Tail o' the Pup (Bent Over at the Arclight), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:20 (nineteen years ago)

via Xhuck on the Teenpop thread:

>>For Immediate Release
March 15, 2006

MATISYAHU DEBUTS AT #4 ON BILLBOARD 200
WITH NEW ALBUM ‘YOUTH'

With Sales Of 119,000, ‘Youth,' Finds Matisyahu The Only Artist With Two Albums Currently In The Billboard Top 40

‘Youth' Captures #1 Spots On Top Internet Albums Chart, Digital Albums Chart And Reggae Chart As ‘Live At Stubb's' Lands at #3 On Reggae Chart

― T/S: Pinks/Oki Dog/Scoobys/Tail o' the Pup (Bent Over at the Arclight), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:24 (nineteen years ago)

Wait you don't think he would taking flack about his authenticity if he wasn't Hasidic? I don't see any evidence of that at all. See Snow above who relied way less on his whiteness than Matisyahu has on his religion as a marketing and who was way more connected and respected in the world of Jamaican music and who is STILL treated as a one note joke by people who know little to nothing about dancehall or reggae or Jamaica.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:25 (nineteen years ago)

also, we never would've heard of him.

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:30 (nineteen years ago)

re-posted from teenpop thread by request:

my son (who is totally excited about being jewish) got the live album as a present, but hasn't listened to it yet. he prefers the four tops, the klezmatics, p.funk, and the hairspray soundtrack.

-- Haikunym (zinogu...), March 15th, 2006. (later)

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:33 (nineteen years ago)

Well, if you have a problem with Matisyahu because he is espousing Hasidic values which you disagree with, then I think that's a valid perspective. I don't agree with it, but at least it seems self-consistent. (Personally, I think he's entitled to his faith, and I don't think that refusing to dance with a woman on stage necessarily makes him a misogynist.) However, what I would object to is holding him up to a different standard than other performers just because he happens to be from a certain faith.

Wait you don't think he would taking flack about his authenticity if he wasn't Hasidic? I don't see any evidence of that at all

Well, I was specifically referring to arguments such as the one that Jody made in his piece and others have made on this thread that somehow Matisyahu is using his Hasidic identity to make inroads into Caribbean authenticity, or some such ploy. That's the part I'm skeptical of. I think people are smart enough to realize that a white man wearing Hasidic garb is not some authentic expression of Caribbean culture.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:33 (nineteen years ago)

To be sure, I am not holding this person up to any different standard than any other performer. Clearly it's impossible to separate the context of Matisyahu's faith from his feelings about women, but ultimately I would be just as troubled if, say, Fall Out Boy or something had given similar quotes.

― Tiki Theater Xymposium (Bent Over at the Arclight), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 19:50 (nineteen years ago)

Fall Out Boy are avowed Moonies

― latebloomer aka rembrandt, the fifth ninja turtle (latebloomer), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 21:24 (nineteen years ago)

(Personally, I think he's entitled to his faith, and I don't think that refusing to dance with a woman on stage necessarily makes him a misogynist.)

How is saying that it's not acceptable for a woman to sing in public anything by misognyist?

― Harmonica winds, Wednesday, 15 March 2006 22:14 (nineteen years ago)

xpost:

interestingly enough, some dudes in FOB used to be in RACE TRAITOR, an all-white, pro-black panther, marxist-leninist hardcore band.

― grady (grady), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 22:17 (nineteen years ago)

(or so the rumour goes)

― grady (grady), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 22:18 (nineteen years ago)

Race Traitor inspired the song "C. Thomas Howell as the soul man" by Botch.

― jimnaseum (jimnaseum), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 22:19 (nineteen years ago)

Botch>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Race Traitor>>>>>>>>>>>FOB>Matisyahu

― grady (grady), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 22:21 (nineteen years ago)

Agreed.

― jimnaseum (jimnaseum), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 22:22 (nineteen years ago)

This is hilarious -- I though I had never heard this guy and it sounded like he has a shtick of some sort that seems to work. Then I realized that I *have* heard him, it's that was on the radio that sounded like whiteboy reggae for Phish fans. (Yes, I thought "whiteboy reggae for Phish fans" before reading the thread.)

The song I heard on the radio sounds like some established band ad-libbing a mediocre live cover of a crappy reggae song. The thing about a nice patois is it gives you technique to turn your words more creatively. This guy has all of the affect and none of the cadence.

― mike h. (mike h.), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 22:39 (nineteen years ago)

it's nice to see cybele here! who do you write for in montreal, c? i'd love to read some of it.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Wednesday, 15 March 2006 22:43 (nineteen years ago)

montrealmirror.com

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 16 March 2006 00:01 (nineteen years ago)

Unless you're Jamaican or Sting circa 1979, don't adopt a Jamaican asshole. It just makes you an asshole.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 19 March 2006 21:30 (nineteen years ago)

'don't adopt a jamaican asshole' - the new hit from vybez kartel

― j blount (papa la bas), Sunday, 19 March 2006 21:38 (nineteen years ago)

Hommophobia inna dancehall style...

― latebloomer is a belly with a guy pierce in it (latebloomer), Sunday, 19 March 2006 21:51 (nineteen years ago)

Hahahah, oh man.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 19 March 2006 21:54 (nineteen years ago)

two months pass...

http://spe.atdmt.com/b/DEDEIMSFTXBX/300x250_M.gif

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 9 June 2006 19:28 (nineteen years ago)

sigh

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 9 June 2006 19:29 (nineteen years ago)

my friend's 14 yo daughter was totally excited about Matisyahu and was disappointed that I thought he was horrible. really I didn't know where to begin...

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 9 June 2006 19:35 (nineteen years ago)

Unless you're Jamaican or Sting circa 1979, don't adopt a Jamaican asshole. It just makes you an asshole.

-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), March 19th, 2006 4:30 PM. (vassifer)

hahaha

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 9 June 2006 19:36 (nineteen years ago)

Adopt-an-asshole: they need love too

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 9 June 2006 19:41 (nineteen years ago)

matisyahu is a total cuntrag?

― Marmotdeth (marmotwolof), Friday, 9 June 2006 21:29 (nineteen years ago)

lol matisyahu is hueg

― Q('.'Q) (eman), Friday, 9 June 2006 21:35 (nineteen years ago)

Can Matisyahu play games and chat on Xbox Live with women?

― Marmotdeth (marmotwolof), Friday, 9 June 2006 21:37 (nineteen years ago)

eight months pass...

apropos to nothing ...

http://img.hmv.co.jp/image/jacket/190/02/5/3/822.jpg

― Eisbaer, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 04:48 (eighteen years ago)

"Oy it's so humid/Oy-Oy It's So Humid/Oy It's So Humid/It's Like a Sauna In Here"

Even when I was in 6th grade that album wasn't funny.

― Hurting 2, Tuesday, 27 February 2007 04:52 (eighteen years ago)

one year passes...

What's the name of the guy who sings Jewish-themed reggae?

― am0n, Friday, 4 July 2008 00:34 (seventeen years ago)

jimi hendrix

― jhøshea, Friday, 4 July 2008 00:52 (seventeen years ago)

four years pass...

I see someone is trying to make himself over:

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/heardmentality/assets_c/2012/09/matisyahu2-001-thumb-550x335.jpg

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 13 September 2012 18:07 (thirteen years ago)

Yeah, he's going through some crisis of faith, apparently.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 13 September 2012 18:11 (thirteen years ago)

"Wow, I believe I kinda stink and I want to start looking like the Beastie Boys circa the late nineties or so."

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 13 September 2012 18:19 (thirteen years ago)

He supposedly had blonde hair for a while there.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 13 September 2012 18:26 (thirteen years ago)

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