Taking sides: Dave Gilmour v. Roger Waters

Guess I'll go with the obvious:
songwriter: Waters
musician: Gilmour

Gilmour. RW's songwriting is not as good as he thinks it is, and Gilmour's guitar playing is what makes Floyd sound like Floyd.

I thought t/s brock vs turner would be more your style.

I like more than one band.

I'll go for Gilmour as well, even though I think the post-Waters Floyd albums are pretty terrible (though, obv, not as terrible as "the final cut") He just seems somehow more likeable, musically. Waters' musical outlook/output always strikes me as being a bit too grim & hopeless.

Momentary Lapse of Reason was listenable schlock. Radio KAOS was execreable.
Plus Gilmour brought Rick Wright back after Waters drove him away.

Gilmour,cause Waters is a control freak who ruined the band creativity and explpring defferent stuff.

Yes, yes. TS: Division Bell and Momementary Lapse vs Dark Side of the Moon - Final Cut. That defferent stuff that Gilmour explred on those later records really was a step above.

Who is this cliche, and what thing belonging to him/her are Gilmour's solo's guitar annoying?

Kill me now.

I do kinda admire Waters' single-minded megalomania, but if I had to choose between the two then Gilmour of course.

Richard Wright would still get my vote though.

Also evident in that film: Nick Mason was like a ball-and-chain on those guys.

Still, this thread has reminded me I need to do that, so I'm doing it now.

"First, why does Roger hire Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck to play all over his records? Because that's how you Replace David Gilmour. As if anyone wanting to make an album has to Replace David Gilmour. It's easy to imagine most of Roger's recent artistic decisions being made with that kind of reactive, obstacle-surmounting logic. It's sort of like watching a person ride into the ocean on a tricycle out of sheer spite for people who don't think he'll make it across. His records paradoxically end up sounding like junior versions of the post-Roger Floyd records, with the female choir vocals, the sound effects, the arena-style blues guitar, but as if it's the work of an impresario who wouldn't budget to hire the original band. Moreover, the real desperation shouldn't be over the loss of Gilmour's guitar, but of that glorious voice. His singing was for one thing sine qua non for the hits to have happened, and for a lyricist, if you've got someone who can sing "run, rabbit, run/Dig that hole, forget the sun" and not sound like William Shatner, hold on to that resource!"

Of course, you know that Becker wrote most of Steely Dan's lyrics, right?

Not just his personality. I also just watched Live at Pompeii and was struck by how HAWT Gilmour was in his youth. I'd had no idea. Whereas Waters...

The dynamics you see in Pompeii are really amazing to watch. I imagine Waters (teh smart one) has always envied Gilmour (teh natural) in a way that Gilmour can't even fathom. The truth, of course, is probably much more complicated.

ouch, PP. I think your selling Becker way short in this particular analogy.

http://www.pinkfloydsound.it/Images_storia/Waters12giugno1971.jpg http://www.rockul.info/photo/PinkFloyd/roger.jpg

he now resembles Richard Gere's ugly brother, which is a huge improvment

Stunningly otm, with a je ne sais quoi d'Eric Roberts as well...

http://www.nndb.com/people/714/000025639/waters04.jpg http://www.nrk.no/img/412137.jpeg

And then one day you find ten years have got behind you...
http://www.pinkfloydz.com/personal/david-gilmour-y-wife-en-sou.jpg

Then again, Gilmour "discovered" Kate Bush, so there are some big points there. And he got Phil Manzanera to produce the new album, which is cool, too.

Damn straight.

If memory serves, on "Momentary Lapse …” he and Mason get big photos, and Wright gets ... none? A smaller one?

He and Mason got it going and Wright came in towards the end, I thought. He was a full member as such again on The Division Bell.

My obsession w/ Wright's psyche-pop songwriting is well documented on this board, but man, I've been obsessing with Floyd's post Syd, pre-Dark Side acoustic psyche folk period.

Grantchester Meadows, Cymabaline, Green is the Colour, Crumbling Land, Cirrus Minor,

and not to de-rail this thread too much, but 2 questions:

1) Isn't Point Met at the Sky the most underrated song of theirs ever? Totall fun.

and

2) Is it possible that any music ever written anywhere rocks harder then The Nile Song and Ibiza Bar? Not in my book.

The earlier pressings have photos of just Gilmour and Mason. Later pressings have Rick Wright Photoshopped into the pic. Wright played some keyboards on A Momentary Lapse... and was paid a salary initially - not sure at which point that ceased.

Considering it's so hard to get, quite possibly :). But my vote goes to "The Narrow Way, Part 3", which is a solo Gilmour composition, now that I remember. Another tick for him.

Dude, he may be played by Brian Dennehy these days but he's still David Fucking Gilmour.

Just think of all the substances that have passed through that prosperous gentleman in the blue cable-knit. The mind boggles.

ho ho ho

Let's face it, Pink Floyd had no business becoming half as huge as they eventually did, and the sole reason is because Roger Waters is possessed of a voice that radio wants to fuck. It's just one of those elemental mysteries, like lemmings running off of cliffs, moss only growing on the northern face of a tree, and animals sensing earthquakes in advance. Roger Waters is the sound of FM, for better or for worse.

And yet...

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/61/81/fdbe7220eca0cf5d0a2b8010._AA240_.L.jpg

Second album is...eclectic. Some of it actually sounds close to mid-80s Phil Collins solo stuff (which I love anyway, but I know most people don't). Dave's voice is generally overproduced, there's some strange mid-atlantic rock here and there. Let's Get Metaphysical is a bizarre orchestal thing with screaming solos over the top, which is both sublime AND ridiculous. Couple of sweet pop-lite ballads, and even some bits that sound like Mike Post TV theme tunes (check the middle section of You Know I'm Right). I suppose overall it's about half decent, and worth a listen.

Both of these are much better than either of the post-Waters Floyd albums.

I still can't choose though. I REALLY love The Final Cut, enough to make up for all of Roger's awful solo records, so I can't bring myself to choose Gilmour over him. I suppose I agree with JB, it's both or neither for me.

Anybody listened to Ca Ira?

Haven't heard "Ca Ira," but I'm not particularly fond of opera, so I don't think there's really much of interest there for me ;)

And I hardly know Pros and Cons..., to be fair. Tomorrow, I'll give it another go.

B-b-but Gilmour sings their biggest radio staple!

I'll confess that I'm not sure any of PF's singers have really stood out to me as exceptional, though I did notice and enjoy some of Waters' histrionics on The Wall (e.g. "One of My Turns"). It's possible that this might just mean that they're so understated and effective that I don't notice them instead of their songs.

Who sings "Us & Them"? Is that Gilmour?

Dave on the verses, Rick and Dave and a lot of ladies on the chorus.

For that alone, Dave Gilmour.

What is funny is how both sides treat Syd. At the time, during the KAOS tour, Waters had the kid in the wheelchair request an oldie or something and on the giant round screen, they showed the video to Arnold Layne or See Emily Play. I always took that to be Waters way of reminding everyone that Pink Floyd existed prior to David Gilmour. Likewise, more recently, such as the shows from 2000 that appear on DVD, some from the Robert Wyatt curated Meltdown Festival, in an effort to perform as many songs not at all written by Roger Waters, Dave played 2 Syd songs. Of course they were old buddies, but it also seems like a sly way of working in the Floyd legacy without propping Waters. He played Dominoes and Terrapin.

1) Which of those records did/do you prefer?
2) Who put on a better show?

I'll also step up to defend Radio KAOS - the concept may be silly, but the compositional skills are in full force. "Radio Waves," "Who Needs Information," "Four Minutes" and "The Tide Is Turning" are all keepers.

It's also a way of making sure that Syd is well funded in royalties. Gilmour said that one of the reasons why they released a live version of "Astronomy Domine" on the 1994 tour was to beef up Syd's income.

-- The Equator Lounge

Doesn't matter--the point is, he got old.

Boring!

Maybe, but I'm not fond of her lyrics...

Roger Waters is like Pete Townshend in that often in interviews the guy seems completely guilt ridden by his success and the fact that many parts of his audience didn't get it.

I think "Murder" by Gilmour is the best thing either one did outside of Pink Floyd. It is a good song to throw on a mix CD, as it sounds like Pink Floyd and most haven't heard it or don't remember the tune.

Gilmour also plays some great guitar on White City by Pete Townshend.

Anyway, I have seen Roger Waters in concert and I consider it the best concert I have ever seen. It was magic, and sounded more like the Pink Floyd that I like. To me, the Waterless Floyd is really cool, but lacks the element that I like most.

I prefer Roger Waters, but I love Dave, too.

Boy oh Boy, the two of them together is when something special happens. I listen to the "In the Flesh" tour CD alot, more than Pulse.

-- Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (dadaismu...), March 9th, 2006.

This is a great new direction for any aspiring band to interpret. Motorhead + Pink Floyd would equal some variant of psychedelia that would be up there with the best of them! For some reason, the first thing that came to mind was Helios Creed with a smoother guitar tone and whiskey-shot vocals instead of digitally distorted ones.

For what it's worth, I think Gilmour's first solo album was good, but not classic - the lyrics are just too pedestrian. Ditto for _Momentary_ and _The Division Bell_. Great music, average or worse lyrics.

>Doesn't matter--the point is, he got old.

Of all the nerve. That piker! AT least he could have the common courtesy to
stay heroin-thin like Jagger and Richards.

Meanwhile, Waters' _Amused To Death_ is just as good as any Floyd album. By that time, Waters had lost his voice - he's basically intoning poetry over spacey backing tracks. It still works. And as a lead guitarist, Jeff Beck is un'f'withable.

PS. Is Roger smoking a roach in that "young" picture?

I agree with the _More_ love, but it sounds better if you don't know it's a soundtrack album. All those throwaway instrumentals, the silly faux-Spanish number. They make sense if you realize it's a soundtrack, but they make MORE sense if you think of it simply as an independent document.

I also think _Ummagumma_ would sound a lot better if you didn't know anything about
the context of it's making (the first disc is older songs played live, and on the second disc
each band member got half of a side completely their own).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGw-NkbTfvQ&search=cymbaline

Those are among the *least* convincing failed approximations of "rock" imaginable.

Jeezuz, go buy a Fushitsusha CD or something.

Not that many. Going from memory here...

San Tropez
Free Four
Brain Damage / Eclipse
Shine On You Crazy Diamond

found this pic of waters

http://www.sivkofur.com/images/baboon.jpg

lookin' good

I would have chosen a snake, personally.

Having fun with Roger on stage: http://braindamage.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=28648

now that's funny

The version of "Astronomy Domine" on that "Floyd's Worst Moments" podcast may just be my favorite... After blowing the on-stage power three times in a row within the first 30 seconds of the song they finally knock it out in a massive Hawkwind-esque freakout.

The second half of the Live In Gdansk album (specifically "Shine On You Crazy Diamond", "Astronomy Domine," "Fat Old Sun," "High Hopes," and "Echoes") is pretty terrific. I like how the wine glass trick was revived for the beginning of SOYCD.

From Gilmour's site

Recent comments by ambient exponents The Orb's Alex Paterson that they have been collaborating with David Gilmour are true – up to a point. David has done some recording with The Orb and producer Youth, inspired initially by the plight of Gary McKinnon (see our related stories). However, nothing is finalised, and nothing has been confirmed with regards to any structure for the recordings or firm details re: any release plans.

Hmmm. Youth *should* be busy working on the new Killing Joke album, but it's an interesting prospect regardless.

Regarding the question, I can't pick one: if only they knew how much they needed each other. Waters, being tone deaf and ham-fisted, needs Gilmour's musicality, and Gilmour needs Waters's ideas, concepts, and lyrics. All of their solo efforts are lesser than the work the created together.

With Rick Wright gone, all hopes for a Floyd reunion are lost. Such a lovely player.

"Radio wants to fuck..."
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Cvo4jwbe8wE/SRM_GJ63IUI/AAAAAAAABRA/g97OB1xBw-M/s400/Dennis-Hopper-Blue_l.jpg

This thread should have been about whose voice FM radio most likes to fuck.

I think having Hawkwind play bass for for Pink Floyd is a kickass idea

someone probably already said this but in regards to this: "If memory serves, on "Momentary Lapse …” he and Mason get big photos, and Wright gets ... none?"

Even though I think Wright gets credit as a session musician on the band, I don't think he even actually played anything on it, and the photo was taken before they decided to even include him in the credits as a sessioner. I think. I could be wrong.

anyway, Gilmour.

I think having Hawkwind play bass for for Pink Floyd is a kickass idea

I think Hawkwind is a pretty cool guy. eh plays giutar and doesn't afraid of anything...

I vote Gilmour easily, for his voice.

also:

Gilmour's solo's guitar are annoying cliche's

aren't his solos kind of the origin of the cliches?

Even though I think Wright gets credit as a session musician on the band, I don't think he even actually played anything on it, and the photo was taken before they decided to even include him in the credits as a sessioner. I think. I could be wrong.

Wright actually does play keyboards on a couple of tracks and sings backing on one song (I think on "Sorrow"), but he was billed as a sessioner because the Waters lawsuit against "Pink Floyd" hadn't yet resolved and there was a legal issue with his initial severance contract with Waters during The Wall.

Supposedly, the current reissue of AMLOR lists Wright as a full PF member.

they reran the DSOTM episode of Classic Albums on VH1 tonight...still love that moment where Parsons isolates Rick & Dave's harmonies on 'Us & Them'. Gorgeous stuff.

I can't pick an either/or. I like them together. Waters solo kind of disappears up his own arse too much...and Gilmour solo just doesn't keep my interest...it's technically 'nice' but that's about it. I didn't mind the last solo album but it just made me want to go crank some Floyd.

waters solo is unlistenable twaddle to me. even 'amused to death' which everyone seems to think is some kind of floyd-worthy achievement, I absolutely hate it.

I like parts of Waters' The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking, mostly the title track, and parts of Gilmour's About Face (Blue Light, guitar playing throughout), but neither's done anything since that's interested me. And I'm on the fence about the last 3 Floyd albums anyway, to say the least. Think both Gilmour and Waters were more interesting as cooperative parts of a happily functioning whole than as true bandleaders.

I guess I'd have to say Gilmour, cuz most of the time, I'd rather listen to his guitar playing than Waters' singing, concepts, bass artistry, etc. Plus he's got a less unpleasant voice.

Lunch with Roger Waters

he comes off, unexpectedly, as a bit of a jerk in that interview, but i can't help but like him. i heard he used to play in a pool league in the bars around city hall in nyc, would love to play pool with him!

i meant "as expected". sorry folks!

Gilmour and Mason makes an appearance at one of Waters' Wall shows

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNRSChj6w4c

http://expectaculos.net/uploads11/gilmour-waters-hug2.jpg

DOH! Anyway, more photos here: http://expectaculos.net/2011/05/12/david-gilmour-acompana-a-roger-waters-en-concierto-the-wall/

Cool. I hope to god they don't reunite.

The "Wall" show I saw here was pretty solid, but the weirdest thing about it was hearing these songs note-perfect for the first time since, like, 7th grade.

really bummed I missed the wall in Oakland, maybe he'll make another go-round. and the gilmore and mason appearance is great. I seriously doubt they will reunite in anyway. this was payback for waters agreeing to sing "to know him is to love him' at a charity gig they both did a few years ago. it wasn't even professionally filmed for the inevitable dvd of this tour. waters has been saying repeatedly for years now he'd love to do PF again but Gilmore is not interested.

kind of wouldn't be surprised if this turned into a floyd reunion. they must be thinking now or never, right? not that they need the money.

mellowest, best record

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/David_Gilmour_self-titled.jpg

Not unlike Lennon/McCartney, they balanced out each other's worst tendencies. Waters, like Lennon, was a pompous douche solo, but Gilmour, like McCartney was just a bit too bland in spite of his incredible musicianship. And I prefer Gilmour, like McCartney, but I'm still glad that there was someone with more of an edge to counter each of them.

this fucking guy

which fucking guy?

Roger Waters directs misogynistic attack at Ana Kasparian while denying Assad's chlorine chemical attack in Douma, Syra that the OPCW confirmed
"She obviously can't read or write... I hesitate to call her a young lady because she's clearly not in the prime of youth," said Waters pic.twitter.com/cdGFpbqlHR

— Matthew Dimitri 🐍🧪 (@themattdimitri) May 28, 2021

I knew it would be Waters tbh. He is always this fucking guy.

you know who else isn't in the prime of youth mr my divorce turned me into a fascist concept album

since this bloke makes a big show of supporting palestine has he ever actually talked to palestinian refugees to/from syria? or for that matter to syrian dissidents about palestine? except maybe to accuse them of being CIA-backed islamist terrorists or something similar