"Who' Next" - Classic or Dud?

The synth/organ stuff is especially classic.

I love this album but I wouldn't try & sell it to anybody in a million years. I can see how people find it boring.

Who's Next is an all-time classic, by the way.

-- Mark (r-...), March 13th, 2006 7:23 PM.

ditto. I love it. I get sick of some of the songs like anyone else, but now and then one of them hits me like a ton of bricks. I used to hate "Bargain" but it might be my favorite now.

So OTM. It is weird. I guess a lot of it is The Who didn't grow old gracefully next to those other bands (Townshend arrested for child porn, among other things), plus their back catalog was never treated as something with value. Who records have always been seen as something you pick up cheap at a flea market, where the Beatles and Stones make every reissue seem like a big event.

I like Who By Numbers more, overall.

Entwistle's best song = "Heaven and Hell," no contest.

Plus, cause of Moon's disinterest in/inability to keep straight time, you can't fuck to the Who. Whereas LZ, via the baddest, solidest, most-deliciously behind the beat englishman to ever put wood to pigskin, well…

When I do pull them out I have a bit of a preference for parts of It's Hard. "I've Never Known War" kills me every time. Best anti-war song ever, I think. As for Who's Next, it's hard to imagine listening to it from beginning to end. "Going Mobile" is my favourite, though.

I think this sums up why they have had such a brutal critical reappraisal over the last ten or so years.

I, also, never need to hear this record EVER AGAIN.

I listen to the radio when not driving my own car. Mostly oldies radio but classic rock is on the presets usually.

"Don't let Colin M see this."

Saw it, wasn't offended, Douglas was absolutely right anyway (Heaven and Hell).

It did indeed 'born' the whole Classic Rock idiom.

That's how good it was.

I missed out on the whole "Who" love at the time, and got the 2CD version in a competition. And it's a big marvellous thing. Sure, I love "Who Sellout" more, but that is only to be expected, it's more human and has fragile moments and out and out comedy.

I admire it without necessarily loving it. (I certainly like it well enough)

-- Ned Raggett

but is a classic album just wish they hadn't sold out to everyone possible...

On a side note is Mark, Ryan?

My Wife is funny, but not poignant. Heaven and Hell is funny and poignant. Postcard is funny but not that poignant.

I don't consider "Getting In Tune" bad at all, at the least for the part where Roger sings the "right in on you..." part, and Entwhistle and Moon kick things up a few notches, turning what was a ballad into a heavy rocker.

since classic rock radio has no analogue in the U.K. (or does it? not sure), did '70s-era "rock and roll is IMPORTANT" 'Oo get shoved down yr throats?

i ask cuz i know lots of english ex-pats who never heard LZ—or at least were disinclined to check 'em out— until they moved to the US, since punk and new wave was opposed to dinoaur-ism.

since classic rock radio has no analogue in the U.K. (or does it? not sure), did '70s-era "rock and roll is IMPORTANT" 'Oo get shoved down yr throats?

i ask cuz i know lots of english ex-pats who never heard LZ—or at least were disinclined to check 'em out— until they moved to the US, since punk and new wave was opposed to dinoaur-ism.

and Entwistle wrote a song for the 'Oo called "When I was a boy" that was "serious."

It doesn't

did '70s-era "rock and roll is IMPORTANT" 'Oo get shoved down yr throats?

No reason for it, after punk

-- BeeOK

Not sure if this was addressed to me, but if so, Mark is Mark, not Ryan.

Back to Who's Next, It's patchy and I think it's status as the first classic rock album puts it in a bad light but a lot of it isn't worth recommending. I'd say the essential Who is Live At Leeds, The Who Sell Out and that compliation from 2002. After that the orginal My Generation. I think you had to be there for Tommy and Quadrophenia, they are even more patchy than Who's Next

As for Who's Next it's both classic and dud. Past 1967, Townshend's failures are generally pretty interesting and the sinking of Lifehouse results in a pretty outstanding rock album without all the conceptual blubber of hippie mysticism weighing it down. I'd dump some of the tracks with a couple of the Odds And Sods leftovers (really just "Pure And Easy" and "Naked Eye") though.

Who's Next also marks the point where the studio version of The Who completely separates from the live version of The Who. It's not surprising, Townshend has everything he needs to feed his maniac pursuit to whatever/wherever, but the one thing he can't do is get the live sound down of the 70s-era Who. Too bad, the live versions of "Won't Get...," "Baba...," and "My Wife" on The Kids Are Alright are still U & K and there's a live take of "Bargain" out there that's just amazing.

I think the biggest reason the Who haven't aged well is because of all the falsetto. It's terrible, and sucks all the masculine power out of every song. A shame, because they're pretty good otherwise.

Where does he sing in falsetto?

i've always called this album a shit sandwich on golden bread.
"baba o'rielly" and "won't get fooled" again are amazing. the rest... shit.

This album really isn't very good, is it? Case in point: The Song Is Over is like Yes if Yes were shit

the song is over is nothing like yes

Even Baba O'Reilly commits the sin of ending just as it's getting interesting again

ok if you think the intro and the outro are the best parts of baba o'riley then this album is just not for you

The last minute of BOR heads in a cool new direction and you're like woo prog o'clock and then it just ENDS

'Won't Get Fooled Again' conveniently describes my feelings every time I deign give this album another chance.

"it's like they realized they wrote a perfect song, panicked, then added a violin solo."

Won't Get Fooled Again still has 3 minutes left, but I can't imagine what it has left to give

Turned out to be 'aimless noodling', as expected. Oh wait what's this? Do I smell false ending? No, I smell 'we've heard of Terry Riley* and all our best stuff is basically him'

*John Cage? Whatever

Oh hey, it was a false ending! Way to goooo

all our best stuff

it's ok to admit that a band is just not for you, then move on. like idk what you're going for here, but the best thing about a band that has Keith Moon in it isn't their brief detours into minimalism.

Rong.

Yeah the other great thing is the playing I guess, but the songwriting is just not for me, sure. I'm sure they ripped it up live

"it's like they realized they wrote a perfect song, panicked, then added a violin solo."

― jakey mo collier (voodoo chili), Friday, August 9, 2019 10:45 AM (thirty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

joe otm

townshend needed the courage of his convictions: sack daltrey and replace all his singing with violin solos and minimalist sequencer patterns

imago has successfully identified the fact that The Who, the band that would routinely blow up their enormous amps with bombs and fireworks, were not as committed to minimalism as Terry Riley and John Cage

nor as committed to prog as Yes

in other news, despite using electronic amplification to reproduce & distort sound and creating pieces founded on mantra-like repetition, when all is said and done The Ramones simply do a sorry job of engaging with the works of Alvin Lucier.

well, no the who weren't a prog rock band.

xp

It's remarkable how thoroughly the Who's arena rock era, like the Stones own early '70s', completely steamrolled the band's iconic '60s era.

the song is over is nothing like yes

... and Yes are shit.

completely steamrolled the band's iconic '60s era.

Steamrolled it by amplification but not by energy. Keith Moon was actually reined in on Who's Next and asserts himself as a nut again on Quad.

I meant that when the band finally dies I suspect it will be something like "Won't Get Fooled Again" or "Baba" that serve as their lasting epitaph, rather than "My Generation" or "I Can See For Miles."

In the USA maybe, not in the UK.

I mean you lot didn't even start buying Kinks records till about 1973.

You might be right, but, for example, I think the Kinks are still as identifiable (in the US) with "You Really Got Me" as anything else (despite having hits to varying degrees throughout their career). But, a la The Who (maybe just here), I think, for example, the most iconic Stones song as this point could be "Start Me Up" rather than something like "Satisfaction."

I think the Kinks are still as identifiable (in the US) with "You Really Got Me" as anything else

Tend to think it's Lola or Come Dancing.

Lola maybe. But I dunno, it's purely anecdotal.

Low Budget/Live Arena Rock Kinks is indeed a good example of the phenomenon.

Or was at the time at any rate

The Kinks are next on my list. Think I'll get on a bit better with them

Keith Moon was actually reined in on Who's Next

He plays with more abandon on Who's Next than on much of Tommy, and even a significant chunk of Sell Out. He's far more about-to-go-off-the-rails playing along to the sequencers on "Won't Get Fooled Again" and "Baba O'Riley" than he is on "Relax," "1921," "Welcome," "Rael," "Go To The Mirror," "Sensation," "Tattoo," "Mary Anne with the Shaky Hand"...

his drumming on baba o riley is f'in sweet

Haven't listened to either in years, but back when I was 14 and they were my favorite band, I liked this import of the 1971-era singles much better than Who's Next itself.

https://www.discogs.com/The-Who-Join-Together-Rarities/release/957255

i love random comps like that

^^Cosign. That was actually a Volume 2, with V1 covering stray stuff from '65-'70. I have a CD combining both--far and away the best Who obscurities comp EVAH.

Can't seem to find it now, but I was remembering some discussion in Richie Unterberger's Won't Get Fooled Again about Keith Moon playing it straighter on Who's Next. Not sure I agree with your characterization completely Tarfumes - I think something like "Go to the Mirror" is classic Moon and pretty wild playing. "Sally Simpson" is like playing a fill through the whole freaking song.

His drumming on "Tommy" is really good.

He plays hard and rules as usual on "Baba," but it's not a bunch of wild fills all over the place.

On Quadrophenia too

xp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QIwN0IQHG0

counterpoint- 'Who's Next' is very good actually

i sort of feel like the who are overdue for a reevaluation of their post-60s era -- i know a lot of ppl who don't rate this stuff at all and insist the only good who is my generation/sell out, etc. who's next was never a huge favorite of mine even when i was a who obsessive as a teen, but i replayed quadrophenia a few weeks ago and was amazed by how well it held up, some seriously good songwriting on there.

I find "Quadrophenia" next to unlistenable, I've never been able to make my way through the entire album at least.

i love random comps like that

― brimstead, Friday, August 9, 2019 2:27 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

^^Cosign. That was actually a Volume 2, with V1 covering stray stuff from '65-'70. I have a CD combining both--far and away the best Who obscurities comp EVAH.

― frustration and wonky passion (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, August 9, 2019 2:33 PM (fifty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I had a cassette with both volumes and nearly wore it out. All non-LP singles and b-sides (from a UK perspective; the US Who's Missing and Two's Missing are just as great, though there's some overlap).

"Baby Don't You Do It" on this comp is from a mindblowingly great 1971 San Francisco show. A handful of other songs from the show are frustratingly scattered among other Who releases, and the whole show has inexplicably never been released.

When I was 14, Quadrophenia was my favorite album, period, and when I saw the movie at age 15, it was the best thing I'd ever seen. Every few years I try putting on Q, but can't make it through. Just too fussy. Love the singles though! Still liked the movie a lot last time I watched. For one of the architects of concept albums, they mostly hold up as as singles band.

Some of it is Daltry's arena style, which is just way out of fashion and may not come back. The narratives never made a lot of sense, but I wanted them to, and when I stopped wanting, Tommy/Lifehouse/Quadrophenia stopped working for me, not to mention the constant fretting about being 36 or whatever in the subsequent work. Townshend is great at capturing specific weird emotions in concise songs, but strains when he tries to tie them together into grand statement. Not a minimalist, but he's best as a miniaturist.

"Baby Don't You Do It" on this comp is from a mindblowingly great 1971 San Francisco show.

Once of my fave Head Heritage reviews: https://www.headheritage.co.uk/unsung/thebookofseth/the-who-join-together-baby-dont-you-do-it
"Their live rendition doesn’t sound remotely Tamla nor Motown: it sounds like “Live At Leeds” and the songwriting credits should’ve read Holland-Iommi-Holland instead. "

Maybe 'wanting them to' is part of the fun? There is something for me about the appeal of Tommy and Quadrophenia songs, which can be great in their own right, relating to their individual places in the drama. I could criticize the sketchiness of the narratives, but my inclination instead is to appreciate the effort and appreciate the ways in which they succeed.

xp

Quadrophenia opened up for me in hearing the most recent mixes, fwiw. I don't care for the original mix.

Can't seem to find it now, but I was remembering some discussion in Richie Unterberger's Won't Get Fooled Again about Keith Moon playing it straighter on Who's Next. Not sure I agree with your characterization completely Tarfumes - I think something like "Go to the Mirror" is classic Moon and pretty wild playing. "Sally Simpson" is like playing a fill through the whole freaking song.

― timellison, Friday, August 9, 2019 2:40 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

I hear what you're saying, but this strikes me as far more unhinged than "Sally Simpson" or even "Go To The Mirror." A lot of it is the aggression, but he does some straight-up batshit things here, like his left foot alternating between the hi-hat and the left bass drum (in order to hit both bass drums in unison...but only sometimes) starting around 2:36:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJH8DmPfVmU

And this doesn't exactly strike me as "reined in":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyOibvBoJKM

I think the angle for reconsidering 70s/80s Townshend is in the tensions of his longing for highbrow acceptance (the more experimental stuff of the Scoop demos) and his constant thinly veiled, yet always veiled, bisexual longings. Like, even considering a song as intentionally idiotic as Squeeze Box, when he comes in and sings Mama's part on the bridge, there's a sincerity to his delivery, acting out the feminine role. That same quaking vibe comes fully out in "And I Moved".

I stuck a bunch of his 70/80s stuff on a Spotify playlist along with contemporaneous John Cale and Arthur Russell, 'cuz there's a similarity to their singing styles, but found a similarity of intent and longing as well.

> Maybe 'wanting them to' is part of the fun?

You're totally right. I'm not sure why I wanted to stop wanting, but it hasn't come back.

I had my (inexplicably belated) first listen to Vintage Violence the other day, and definitely got a Townshend vibe from the vocals.

And I dunno if they were in the studio at the time, but Cale played with Townshend and Moon on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHoqssrKBFg

xp

^ boy that's area Who with the Daltryisms excized.

Daltry seems like the nicest guy in a band with some very dark souls, I feel bad for ragging.

Quadrophenia opened up for me in hearing the most recent mixes, fwiw. I don't care for the original mix.

I don't know if that would work for me because I hate the muddy overstuffed sound of "Quadrophenia". I tried listening to "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" once (God help me) and got the same feeling. Love the 70s but sometimes it sucked.

the classicest

getting in tune to the straight and narrow

just banging on my old piano

and nothing in the street

seems so different to me

and if i smile

tell me some bad news

Is that Unterberger book good?

Too late.

The Unterberger book is well-written, and unties the knots of this period of The Who's history about as well as you could hope, but the basic problem is that Townshend never really decided what Lifehouse was. So if you're looking to have that explained lucidly, you may be let down. The making of Quadrophenia is very detailed, and less confused, as well.

Unterberger says that three songs were newly recorded in ‘78/‘79 with Kenney Jones for the Quadrophenia soundtrack album: “Joker James,” “Get Out And Stay Out,” and “Four Faces.” That last one, though, was recorded (for the most part) in 1973 and has Keith on drums. I emailed Unterberger about this, and he said that documentation (wasn’t more specific than that) says it’s Jones on “Four Faces.” But it’s pretty obvious just by listening that it’s Moon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGF2N00K-Ws

https://images2.imgbox.com/10/cb/Axn9cRNZ_o.jpg

gives a new meaning to the album title tbh

or it's almost like the name of the album is asking "who (of the members of the band that recorded me)'s next (to die? after all, two of the original four have already passed away)" - and then roger daltrey (the singer) says "it's probably me, I'm probably next." ba dum tish!