CRAZY RAPPERS

xpost i separate this from dudes who seem to actually care enough about rap to love the dullest stuff

xpost: haha yeah because rap critics dont have love for serious boring lyricists too. cf. oh, i dunno, nas.

xpost, ilm is slow as shit today

(and I'm not making any silly Pete Doherty=DMX direct comparisons Dom, just noting that focusing on erratic/"crazy" personas of stars is not unique to rap)

Anyway, they like novelty-rap because novelty songs are the best!

Oh, I get it, this is all a parody.

I think this is the key sentence/question; I don't think the impulse behind the type of appreciation you're talking about across these various genres is appreciably different. People like watching "crazy" people, regardless of whether they're actually crazy or not. The point where it gets murky/tricky is when you wrap race baggage up with the already existing "I like looking at things that resemble train wrecks" baggage; people start ascribing craziness to ethnicity/gender (see also the cult of Tori/Kate/Laurie for examples) and then everything becomes a total "seriously, did you really just say that with a straight face?" cringefest.

Make 'em say "Ugh..."

We used to call this guy Master P-nis. Get it?

I sure do miss those chintzy, Photoshopped album covers, though. Everybody was jocking that "fresh off the color copier at Kinko's" look.

Comment by: SnowWhiteTrash at May 10, 2006 - 8:57am

If I'm not mistaken, Nathan Rabin is black.

What's the difference between something being "off the hizzity" and "all gravy train"?

Well, I'm no E-40-type cunning linguist, but "all gravy" is like a state of utter contentment, while off the hizzety simply means that something is the bomb diggity, and perhaps "all gravy" to boot. Incidentally, all my slang I borrowed from William F. Buckley. That brother got soul by the pound.

I'd have to say my favorite ebay purchases have been the ones where after I received the item I said to myself "Now why the fuck did I want this in the first place?". Such items include a 2Pac can cooler (for all those instances in which you need a thug in your life to keep your cans cool) and a Dream Warriors sand sieve. The Dream Warriors, incidentally, were a Canadian rap group that rapped about rolling the twelve-sided die, which makes them, officially, the coolest people ever.

Who is killing all the great chefs of Europe?

I think they all died from inside jokes run amok. Also, George Segal was involved. Also, Hootie. Have you seen that Hootie is trying to re-invent himself as an R&B lover-man? His new single is even called "Wild One", as in "I, Hootie, the doughy poster-boy for wussy folk-rock stylings, fancy myself a wild one on account of my lascivious and decadent lifestyle". Well, I tell you something, Claire: I'm twice as wild as Hootie. Maybe even three times as wild.

You have written for B.E.T. Did you have to pretend to be black like the guy in "Soul Man?" I assume that's how your name appears on the "Anarchist People of Color" website as well.

No, no, I'm afraid I did not have to engage in any comical mischief to write for BET. I may have to engage in some comical mischief if they're ever to pay me however. I hope this interview makes clear just how much time and energy I devote to thinking about when I finna get paid. Also, how much I care about the babies.

What's a nice Jewish boy from the Midwest doing knowing so much about hip-hop?

Claire, I'm from the streets, so it's second nature for me to kick knowledge about the rap game, which, incidentally, is alot like the crack game. No, honestly, I've always been attracted to the genre's anti-authoritarian bent. Also, the sheer number of big booty freaks currently waiting for a brother such as myself to get his mack on old school. All of which is to say that we should all put the interests of the children first.

xpost doom = occasionally dope producer, competent-to-grating mc

And rappers totally cater to this line of reasoning any way (see RZA posing in a straitjacket on the cover of some magazine, and Kool Keith getting all bent about it)

Yeah, but your first post is really long.

I honestly don't think there's that much of a difference (ex. of Sun Ra is perfect here)

writers in trying to find a hook shocker

yeah music-bizness-wise this distinction is pretty much just whether you manage to get paid before you run out of people who'll let you sleep on their couch

I guess this criticism applies to all music equally, though.

The Rabin article is most offensive because it bitches about DMX failing to live up to expectations during this arrest. This case is different from Parliament/ODB/Doom etc. because people here expect DMX to be crazy not on an album or in the public spotlight, but in real life. DMX's persona didn't get arrested this time, DMX the guy did. The fact that every time someone like DMX gets arrested, it has to be for some looney reason does smack of racism, but I don't know if an indictment of the whole rapper-persona fascination follows from that.

1. yes
1a. there's also the fact that a lot of people (me included) just prefer weird stuff - E you should kinda lay yr cards on the table here, for you "weird" is a negative criticism isn't it? if these people were, like, manilow freaks in their pop tastes but then strictly odb in their rap tastes, you might have a case, but there are a whole host of other things to consider - especially that the "weird" rappers you name (except maybe cam'ron, about whom I don't know shit) tend to be working a more obviously literary schtick

or to put it more briefly, "eng lit grads who became critics in liking offbeat poetry non-shockah"

the reason you can see this probably has something to do with your not having spent any time behind bars: it fucking sucks

Wesley's not putting on a rubber elvis wig. He was really schizo!

And I reiterate: The "Crazy" that CTORL listen to is informed by sci-fi and horror and all the other things used as alienation support beams for whitebread weirdos. Even ODB rapped about CHUDs.

hey, he's just talking about a "certain kind of rap fan"! I'm sure he had no ulterior motive to brand "those" fans and their opinions as racist, nosiree...

Also, DMX - or anyone - is unlikely to go to prison over an airplane hissy fit. (jail and prison being two very different environments, generally.) He'll pay a fine, have a press conference, or maybe just a perp walk, and get a bunch of google hits.

haha e yeah the only reason critics woulda all gone nuts at once about houston was the music was so great! that's gotta be it! that, and all these cough-syrup-drinking critics really relate intensely to the general subject matter of post-screw houston rap

More info plz, thx

glad to hear it man! I was worried about you

I have spent some time behind bars. (A weekend at city jail, yeah I'm a real hardass) I know it fucking sucks. All kinds of things that fucking suck are done in the name of earning publicity and money.

would you seriously spend even a few more hours in there on the -possibility- that it'd lead to increased sales/attendance? I work in the entertainment biz & can really use more sales, but I wouldn't spend five more fucking minutes in jail for ANYTHING except direct, cold, hard cash up front

I was stopped for speeding and had an outstanding warrant for driving without insurance. I was arrested and my car was searched. They found my tiny weed stash. I was booked for possession of paraphenalia on a Saturday night and couldn't get a release hearing until Monday afternoon. The worst of it was it happened the weekend of Mother's day so I had to call my Mom and explain I had to cancel taking her to dinner cause I got busted by the pigs.

As I said, I am a real hardass.

xpost -

AS for the question of would I do it again for the chance at publicity. I think for someone like DMX it's more than just a chance, it's virtually certain. And it wasn't so bad that I couldn't take it, so why shouldn't a geniunely prison scarred dude like him be more hesitant than me? At least if we're talking about another cream-puff city jail situation, which is what seems most likely from a yelling at stewardesses incident.

xpost

xpost hugaboo said it best, curtis i think critics/fans mostly gave em that elusive benefit-of-the-doubt - look how seriously white dudes take him!!! camron wishes he got 1% of em's sincere unironic praise

Maybe, but his flow is on par with, say, The Streets.

Pete Burns.

Axl Rose?

Daniel Johnston?

Roky Erikson?

Iggy Pop (back in the day)?

also odb might be received by some--even many--as tortured genius but there's far less discussion of his elaborate multi-syllable/slant rhymes than there has been about em's...

basically i think odb is smart too but a lot of people don't care about that aspect of his persona, whereas it is impossible to ignore em's "genius" factor

yes odb & kool keith are a genuine symbols of sex & admiration on the same level as jim morrison, axl rose & iggy pop

the average age of people who consider any of those three a sex symbol today is 56 - you can't pit history against the present day, it's too umm weird

x-post

that's true.

es odb & kool keith are a genuine symbols of sex & admiration on the same level as jim morrison, axl rose & iggy pop
-- and what (an...), May 17th, 2006. (ooo)

i see what yr saying, but a lot of iggy's appeal was based on his onstage antics (peanut butter, cutting himself, etc)...and there was definitely an element of how they marketed the stooges that was "man look at these crazy drug troglodytes from michigan that can't play their instruments"...I want to say that Bowie even said they reminded him of cavemen or something.....

"Brian Wilson doesn't cut it because his art didn't revolve around a crazy persona for most of his career. "

I don't know what Beach Boys records you listen to ("I'm Bugged at My Old Man"? "In My Room"? "Til I Die"? "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times"? ad nauseam) but the "tortured manchild" thing WAS - hell, it still is - his career persona.

the reaction in question is "wow, dude gets arrested constantly. what a fuck-up" and it's the same one they have toward pete doherty and courtney love.

******

As lame as an arrest as this is(How lame is a rappers arrest when it's the same thing Peter Buck was arrested for?) this may be one of the funniest images in the world.

"Excuse me sir, if you'd like to return to your seat, we're serving first class passengers drinks now"

"Bitch, can't tell a nigga like me what to do. I'll drink when I want to! Bark Bark!"

*******

Just people saying "what a fuck-up"? YOU DECIDE!

alright, all you indie dudes out there who like your blacks as total caricatures and your white artists respectable are racists. shame on you indie dudes.

and Syd Barrett, and Skip Spence, and Scott Walker, and Jandek, and a long long list. I just think that, y'know, Ethan doesn't wanna allow for people actually enjoying odb records - this whole discussion is like a rockist paradise: "oh, this music doesn't suit my tastes, therefore no way people could actually like it" - that's offensive to me personally, almost! odb made really wonderful records, and just because one person doesn't like 'em doesn't mean that the only reason anybody ever did was some weird race/mental-health construct

Me and my friends are "guilty" (fuck you!) of listening to a lot of "CRAZY RAPPERS" I guess, but you know we don't really think of them that way. Mainstream conception of "crazy" is kinda ridiculous (everybody who doesn't fit in a box). I hear a sorority girl talking about how she knew someone who was "crazy" once, "like this person was totally bi-polar".. I smile like half my friends aren't bi-polar. Yeah, I've had plenty of conversations about the genius of Dirty's worldplay, or Keith's unique sense of time. They sound crazy sometimes, like Sun Ra I guess, because they're willing to do shit that other people would never think of. So I take comfort in what you might call their "craziness".. I don't look down on William Blake either. SOmetimes you gotta have visions to have a vision, you know.

xpost like crazy, obvs

You could just as well replace all of ethan's posts with this.

just for the sake of argument

or Chan Marshall, who's selling about as well as most of the underground "crazy" rapper dudes

It is.

I never fucked Ozzy.

no ethan is saying "indie kids be racist" and has constructed an elaborate strawman argument to somehow try to "prove" it.

GG Allin...

people like crazy artists in general. name one and everyone's all on their dick. Roky Erickson, Syd Barrett, Kool Keith, Skip Spence, ODB, Brian Wilson, Peter Green, Daniel Johnston, Phil Spector, Wesley Willis, Jandek... this list could go on forever.

But I have to admit one thing: the black ones seem funnier for some reason. The white ones mostly seem pathetic. The reason for this, I'm not sure.

1. Scenesters: They take hip hop seriously and delve deeply into local scenes. They often differentiate based on nuances that the casual listener doesn't even hear.

2. People who listen to a lot of different genres of music - hip hop only being one of them. They take it seriously as an artform, but tend to skim the surface a bit, and listen to the artists that are getting the most hype in their circles. Most music writers fall into this category; their circles possibly being where they are getting interesting-looking promos/presskits from, or word-of-mouth from other writers. Naturally, more colorful acts (in some cases the "craazzzzy" ones), as opposed to the "dullest stuff" loved by true fans aka scenesters who differentiate based on nuances most people don't even hear/see.

3. People who primarily listen to a certain type of music (in this case, I guess, indie rock, but I've known just as many who were into emo, trance, metal, and more) but listen to hip hop when they aren't really in the mood for whatever their chosen "serious" music is, like at house parties, certain club nights with offensive themes in certain parts of New York City, and wherever else they might be kicking back and drinking and/or doing drugs. Their chosen style of hip hop is almost always: the most over-the-top misogynist stuff and/or the "craaAAaaaAAAzzy black man" stuff. They still think it's funny to ironically refer to each other as niggaz, and sometimes smoke blunts and/or drink bad malt liquor with each other while listening to crazy rappers.

The third category is responsible for most of the criticisms on this thread and should be disregarded because they usually aren't real music fans in the first place. They are a part of a club. How's that for elitist?

the only reason I felt like spelling it out in this way is because it seems like 'and what' is pointing fingers at too many people, which is causing way too many people who are in category 2 to take offense at his point, which seems like a good one to me. He's just painting with too broad a brush. Good thread, though. I killed a lot of time at work reading it today.

Except DMX's comeback album is going to bomb with or without the media attention of an arrest.

let us not forget ILM's pet obsession, Marissa Marchant.

I can't parse "deserving of" in this sentence, but even if I could, ILM in not actually being particularly representative of the greater world non-shockah

*ps i dig cat power a whole bunch!

I see similar things directed toward all the female artists mentioned in the "crazy" camp on this thread. I don't think they're seen as "deserving of sympathy" except by their fans, in other words. Whereas MF Doom--I mean, c'mon, the poor guy, he keeps putting out this absolutely horrible music but everyone's decided to pretend like it's really good, either because they think it's funny or so as not to hurt his feelings.

meanwhile your own comment about Doom is frontloaded with this mega-rockist "people couldn't actually like it, since I know that it in fact bad music" sorta oddness whose point I can't really catch - the 'everyone' who's 'pretending' they like it (I'd guess that they actually do, but that's the popist in me) is a number roughly equivalent to the number of people who 'actually' like Cat Power if we're going by soundscans

B-but they flat-out say they're crazy!

man, you all have weak stomachs.

but that article made a point of dissing X because this was a "wimpy primadonna" move.

The Rabin article is most offensive because it bitches about DMX failing to live up to expectations during this arrest. This case is different from Parliament/ODB/Doom etc. because people here expect DMX to be crazy not on an album or in the public spotlight, but in real life. DMX's persona didn't get arrested this time, DMX the guy did. The fact that every time someone like DMX gets arrested, it has to be for some looney reason does smack of racism, but I don't know if an indictment of the whole rapper-persona fascination follows from that.

-- hugaboo (writeagainston...), May 17th, 2006.

I'm not sure where you're getting "every time someone like DMX" shit from; the original article didn't appeal to some sort of archetype/caricature, it was just about how DMX himself, who has been arrested in the past for ridiculous shit, got arrested for comparatively tame shit. this is actually more of a surprise in that it's kind of underwhelming, in much the same way that it would be utterly shocking if Pete Doherty getting arrested for speeding and turned out to be completely sober at the time and have nothing illegal in his car.

DMX barks like a dog...
listen to "Where My Dog's At?" if you really want to laugh
this guy is convinced he's an actual dog.....unbelievable

iggy pop ACTUALLY WANTS TO BE YOUR DOG....unbelievable

the baha boys actually don't know who let the dogs out.....unbelievable

baha MEN

unbelievable

I believe every word of it! Unbelievable!

baha boys becoming baha men
baha men becoming wolves

werewolf baha mitzvah

You really think the indie press treat TORTURED POET OF OUR GENERATION Pete Doherty in the same way they treat DMX ("I say, wouldn't it be funny if he'd said "I am not doing my seatbelt up... nigga!")?

-- Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, May 17, 2006 11:04 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark Link

i say!

All-time classic Passantino post there.

3. People who primarily listen to a certain type of music (in this case, I guess, indie rock, but I've known just as many who were into emo, trance, metal, and more) but listen to hip hop when they aren't really in the mood for whatever their chosen "serious" music is, like at house parties, certain club nights with offensive themes in certain parts of New York City, and wherever else they might be kicking back and drinking and/or doing drugs.

if only being a tokenist was actually this cool.

Are you not familiar with the horrors of Kill Whitey Night?

i listen to a lot of rap during Kill Whitey Morning & Afternoon (ie my commute)

i hate that awkward overrhyming bullshit he does - wait why did dude just say 'scrappy doo is gonna break the china'? oh now hes saying 'happy you got on a fake vagina', very clever

-- and what (ooo), Wednesday, May 17, 2006 12:31 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Link

still like doom but this is L.O.L.

Zwan, you're the elusive Type 4 whose favorite craaazy rapper is Fred Durst.

-- Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Thursday, May 18, 2006 10:09 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark Link

not to pat myself on the back but lol @ this (and at jess's screenname at the beginning of the thread)

Buzi father of Ezekiel

CRAZY ILXORS

PPS I am also the proud owner of a "CRUNK'S NOT DEAD" Neigborhoodie

-- bernard snow (sixteen sergeants), Thursday, 18 May 2006 14:38 (1 year ago) Bookmark Link

CRAZY ILXORS

-- The Reverend, Monday, 14 April 2008 23:58 (Yesterday) Link

REV OTM

-- CERTAIN TYPE OF RAP LISTENER (whineyg), Wednesday, 17 May 2006

in light of the best album of 88 poll lol @ this

i coulda sworn i was on this thread but come to think of it i was prob intimidated

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:QS5ZjX5i1D2z_M:http://www.shawnmortensen.org/TupacVibe.jpg

would love to revive this for more discussionz but im too!! busy!! some tard plz say something we can argue about for 400 posts :-)

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1603642/20090127/lil_wayne.jhtml

Wayne is the most interesting rock star in the world. By a mile. In fact, here's an even better one: He is Axl Rose. It's not that great of a leap. Both could kindly be described as "eccentric" (or full-blown batsh--). Both promised (threatened?) to release ill-advised vanity projects, neither listening to the doubters who sniggered that it would never happen and the advisers who said it would be a terrible idea. To extend the comparison, Wayne's Rebirth is basically Rose's Chinese Democracy, minus 15 years and millions of dollars. ("Prom Queen" actually sounds like one of the more industrial tracks on Democracy.) It will probably garner the same reception, both critically and commercially.

why didn't i make the connection before?? it's so obvious

is Lil Wayne an anagram of something rude?

"alley win"

wily anel?

wine yall

"wallin' 'Ye" could describe his relationship with Kanye West

http://i40.tinypic.com/av4pxf.jpg

http://www.mtv.com/sitewide/images/u/icon-voteu.gif 0%

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kzuz08zAtB1qbrus1o1_500.gif

http://gifsofpopularrappers.tumblr.com/ <---- so goood!!

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kz8d48r6s11qbrus1o1_500.gif

goonie goonie moony juney purple spoonie killa noonie

there are some funny gifs on that blog but goons could do much better if we knew how to gif

I keep copying posts and every time I scroll down to paste them in the goddamn post box I see another post I want to copy instead and now I'm typing this bullshit

goonie goonie moony juney purple spoonie killa noonie

this thread somehow remained unbumped through the whole Lil B era

lol