Wilco - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot

Well I kind of just leaped onto this board without invitation, if you are the Scott P. who came before me, I will happily fall back to the diminutive of my name!

Tom - thanks for the thoughts. I guess it is interesting, and I have to admit the Village Voice review touched on some thoughts that were in my subconscious. I still don't like the review, but I will admit the seeming "snowball effect" of rave reviews made me a little uneasy. I am, however, glad to see Wilco getting praise they deserve and if the critics are shouting too hard, it's kind of an "end justifies the means" type of deal for me.

Alex, glad you got the album. It's cool to see the reactions of people who just bought it. I really, really wish my first listen had been off the CD in my car, not streaming from the web in my office at work. I feel like I missed that one chance "first impression" in time forever! But the CD keeps getting better for me, that's the good news.

Cheers, scotty

Mark, you are referring to the sainted Marc Bolan. To me, Jeff Tweedy sounds like Jerry Garcia. A lot. Which is ok. I just got YHF a couple days ago myself, and find it to be pleasant, but I can't think of anything interesting to say about it. Yet.

No, no, no. Sorry! Didn't mean to grumble -- I rarely have time to post as it is. No worries.

"The fact that Wilco had to buy back their new album from an unimpressed record label - Reprise - only to then sell it back to, effectively, the same company, says it all.

The laughable lack of vision or interest in invention coruscating through towering leper colonies the world over cocoons these industry idiots, whose only concession to complexity is an expenses bill or a tax return.

'War On War' is the first single from that very spurned album, the rather brilliant and universally lauded 'Yankee Hotel Foxtrot', which, remarkably, runs predecessor 'Summerteeth' pretty close on the wonderful barometer.

Naturally more accessible than sections of the album, 'War On War' is still full of atmospheric static, far-off melodic passages and juddering radio-wave distortion, yet retains a precise pop element that was clearly just too damn 'out-there' for a bunch of executives who should be shot."

- Ben Gilbert

But an interesting postscript is that Gilbert later (just today) reviewed Wilco's show at the Astoria - and was largely disappointed. It's too bad.. I think they are having trouble with the new material in a live format, and without Jay Bennett. And Tweedy supposedly gets gripped with intense stagefright before various shows.

I love the song with the violin, I wish more of the record sounded that vital.

HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! I am very 'deep' too. With my feelings of hetred towards Wico. What do you think is deep, then?

''Tweedy's voice sounds like Lennon's there in several songs. Wilco truly seem to be the American Beatles for me. Like the Beatles would have sounded after they broke up and if they would have been American. Amazing pop music. The tunes are very subtle and it always takes several listens to grasp them. And they seem so light.''

this is not good is it? They will beremembered by you as the 'American Beatles' but not as 'Wilco'. Nice!

It's anti-american but that's so easy really to attack america. What's the big deal?

only the corpse isn't going for it

'if they aren't the american beatles, then who would be?' is a v. v. poor reason to think that there is an american beatles anyway. if you think about it you'll see that my comment had something to do with wilco's relationship with tradition, a tortured and overly self-conscious one that I just don't hear in the beatles (until the white album ha but it's a different matter there). this relationship comes through in the way tweedy's songs are written, too - I don't think I would think he had such a troubled relationship with tradition if he was a better songwriter, but he's not. (which sort of blows a lennon/mccartney - tweedy songwriting comparison, so, like, american beatles, what the fuck?)

also if he keeps kicking out people who can write better melodies than him...

Quite. The question as a larger one is a bit strange anyway. Who the hell cares if there is an American Beatles or not? Why bother? Leave that for the fetishists.

Or music journalists.

But this just shows that speculation on lyrics is useless at the end of the day. I'm english and I took that from an anti-american perspective (since sept 11th, also american foreig policy and so on).

That's why i restrict myself to sound itself (and the ound of the voice and how it interacts w/sound that the group makes) and from that perspective Wilco don't do enough for me.

but then you're trying to interpret lyrics and most reviewers do that to interpret what the 'artist' is thinking and that can lead to all sorts of shit that i read in record reviews.

I mean: Dylan is a poet you know? and that horse shit.

I dunno - it makes me feel warm fuzzy feelings.

It's hard for me to explain why I like abstract metaphor and symbolism when Bob Dylan or Stephen Malkmus does it, but why I don't like it when Jeff Tweedy does it. I think it's partly in the delivery, and partly in the sense of humor - or rather Tweedy's apparent lack of same.

The "experimental" noise on this record is totally pointless, it's not integrated with the songs - just pasted at the end. I don't like the vague lyrics either, especially since I heard that they don't actually mean much. For me that is the worst type of lyrics.

I interpret this statement as Anti-Art.

I saw Wilco live last week. I enjoyed the record before, but more so now. It didn't feel "experimental" before, but when I saw them perform "I Am Trying to Break Your Heart" I saw Wilco experimenting. There are no genuinely radical ideas, but there are no inhibitions either. It is experimental pop, exactly.

So?? You didn't mean it, then?

keiko- can i ask what were they doing? how were they experimenting?

julio: it involved pipettes

Josh, you have done something no one has managed: I'm now interested in Wilco (not really).

OK, gloaters, start your engines...

*insert sound of crickets chirping*

JEFF TWEEDY SPEED METAL! Best typo ever, Julio!

NTI, Wilco aren't really very big in the UK.

But their alltime best song will always be California Stars, off the Mermaid Avenue vol 1 Woody Guthrie cd.

otm

OTM

There are only a few records I like better so far this decade.

I didn't listen to this for a few years for some reason but pulled it out again yesterday and really loved it the way I did when I first heard it. I still think Summerteeth might have the edge but this is really fantastic and they haven't done anything since that touches it.

and going back and listening to ghost is born and sky blue sky, I might have to say that jay bennet was more important to this band than they let on, because the albums since have been pretty flat; surprising considering the input nels cline and glen kotchke probably have. it's not just the lack of textures, but the songwriting has just lost something. bennet didn't get much credit for YHF (in fact until I saw 'i'm trying to break your heart' for some reason I was under the impression he quit before it was even finished) but I think maybe he deserves more of it than he gets.

I like YHF a lot, but I like SBS almost as much (if not more). I don't really understand why the former is so lauded and the latter is, by comparison, at least, so pilloried.

is it pilloried? i thought people liked it. it's fine, it's pretty good, but I think YHF has an edge and more memorable sounding songs

is it pilloried?

In some "hip" corners, yes. Then it turned up on a lot of Best of 2007 Lists, which led to a new round of dismissive "Dadrock!" comments.

The AAA station in Chicago did a live broadcast of Wilco's show the other night. During intermission, the DJs sounded like color commentary guys at halftime: "So far during this five-night stand, they've played "Impossible Germany" four times, "Poor Places" three times, which means you've gotta figure that one's gonna resurface later on tonight." "Did you notice Nels Cline's solo on that one? Hoo boy, that was masterful."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2008/10/wilco-save-your.html

Wilco: Save your money, don't buy our Blu-ray!

03:05 PM PT, Oct 29 2008

In this tough economic time, Chicago-centered rock band Wilco is looking out for you. For those die-hard Wilco completists out there, the band is trying to save you some money. Don't, says the band, buy a new Blu-ray edition of its 2002 documentary "I Am Trying to Break Your Heart."

At the end of an e-mail announcing tour dates as well as an appearance Thursday night on "The Colbert Report," the band had a "CONSUMER ALERT" (the caps, Pop & Hiss wants it known, are all Wilco). Reads the notice:

Without consulting us, the DVD company (not WB/Nonesuch) that released "I am trying to break your heart" is about to issue a Blu-Ray Edition which, no surprise, costs considerably more (nearly 2x) than the standard DVD. We're unsure as to the rationale for the release, given that the film was shot in beautiful grainy B&W and has a stereo-only audio track... there is, in our opinion, not much to be gained by spending the extra cash. It's your money... and in this case you should probably hang onto it.

On Amazon.com, the single-disc version of the film costs $17.99, the two-disc DVD set will run you $24.99, and the Blu-ray edition, which will be released Nov. 18, is selling at a pre-order price of $30.99. Or you can find the used copy of the VHS (VHS! Was 2002 really that long ago?) for about $12.

UPDATE: Plexifilm co-founder Gary Hustwit e-mailed in a response to Wilco's statement. He says that the Blu-ray carries a higher list price because it costs more to make, and that there are added licensing costs to manufacture discs in the format. Additionally, Hustwit says, the quality of the film is significantly greater in Blu-ray.

Wrote Hustwit, "If you've got a film that was shot on super-16mm, like the Wilco film, a high-definition transfer on Blu-ray disc is going to look better than a standard-definition transfer compressed to DVD. Watching the Blu-ray disc is the closest you can get to actually sitting in a theater and watching the original film.... But we want to release our films in the best available format, and Blu-ray is just better than DVD, period."

On a side note, Wilco's upcoming tour mate, Neil Young, seems to have a different view toward Blu-ray technology. At the end of January, Young will release "Archive," his 10-disc set of performances from 1963-72 in multiple formats, including Blu-ray.

"Blu-ray is the future," Young told Billboard. "It sounds the best; the navigating system is the best. I've made a lot of CDs and we've made a lot of DVDs, and Blu-ray technology is so far superior to anything else. The fact there aren't many players out there now doesn't meant that much to me, because it is the future, so I would rather focus on what's next. If you were to get a Blu-ray of the 'Archive,' you would get the best."

Sounds like some debate fodder for the tour bus.

Neil Young will be playing, sans Wilco, Thursday night at the Forum in Inglewood.

-- Todd Martens

It's kind of dull, isn't it? The songs aren't that good, and the production affects an illusion of progression that just isn't there. But then, I've never liked Wilco. But I seriously can't understand what everyone is raving about.
― Melissa W, Friday, March 22, 2002 1:00 AM (6 years ago)

Whoops.

Whoops what? It is kinda dull compared to Summerteeth.

Indeed. I haven't really been able to get into anything by Wilco post-Summerteeth, the odd toon - "Hell Is Chrome", "Leave Me Like You Found Me" - aside.

I stick by A Ghost is Born as the classic.

The monumental dirginess of the first song and the plodathon that is "Spiders" put me off pursuing that album.

YHF is kind of boring except for a couple songs. In other words, 2002's OK Computer.

Now that's just a mad thing to say.

nah, it's the cool thing to say. there's a difference.

That first song on YHF is interminable.

^^^ffs

I stick by A Ghost is Born as the classic.

I'll second this.

The monumental dirginess of the first song and the plodathon that is "Spiders" put me off pursuing that album.

― Freedom,

Haha! those are about the two best!

Oh man, A Ghost Is Born is great except for "Hummingbird", "I'm A Wheel" and "Theologians", which is fine because these songs rly don't matter one jot, the important stuff is fkn aces, especially "Handshake Drugs", which is nigh-on songwriting genius

and if you hate on "Less Than You Think" you've never listened to music while suffering a terrible cold

I will go to my grave believing that YHF somehow killed popular music for this millennium.

yhf is popular?

No -- more like the Grim Reaper of popular music.

how

im not sure why im even responding to you i don't even know what you mean

"pitchfork indie" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ongoing "pitchfork indie" backlash

otm

Anyway, YHF and AGIB are largely good music, to these ears, "authentic" or not. The band has a real feel for texture, sound and emotional depth.

im not sure why im even responding to you i don't even know what you mean

Well, there's a lot more to my point here, but in essence, it was exactly at YHF that pop deconstruction plays itself out.

i wonder if all of you are dads.

wtf is the pitchfork indie backlash? pitchfork & the bands it likes are bigger than ever, right? surely u can't mean ILM cos if this place was ever unfriendly to indie (lol Kid A) it certainly isn't now. indie won, well done u fuxx, u can drop the victimhood

Wilco is a band, I have determined, who while not necessarily the best around will always be above their criticism, be it positive or negative. A combination of self-explanatory artistic decisions and attention to craft leaves the critic with little to say beyond "I liked it" and "I didn't like it".

by the "pitchfork indie" backlash, I mean the visible minority who go out of their way to slag off arty indie bands such as Radiohead and Wilco because of a perceived lack of real artistic integrity. there is no point pretending this lot don't exist.

little to say beyond "I liked it" and "I didn't like it"

having suffered through all of that interminable movie, I have a great deal more that I could say about this pedestrian, unimaginative bunch of retreads. But you aren't listening, and, worse, would probably write some godforsaken exegesis about their imagined merits.

Anyway, there are literally hundreds of much better bands I could spend my time listening to, so I will. But imagining that people can't make a case against this crap is wishful thinking.

go on then

oh right, so u just mean that there are some ppl who don't like wilco and radiohead. don't really see how that is a 'backlash', maybe some ppl really don't like that music and have good reasons too! crazy i know! (x-posts)

where would we be without wishful thinking

dude there is no point pretending that there aren't folk who not only use bands like wilco and radiohead as strawmen, but construct their own fantastical conspiracy theory around "pitchfork indie" and how it is all nonsense

hence "death of popular music this millennium" grandstanding

i mean bogus metanarratives are the main weapon of this aforementioned backlash

btw sleeve's post from the second sentence onwards is the most arrogant, pompous dreck i've seen in a while here, even allowing for the fact that (s)he dislikes wilco

yeah calling it a backlash when the majority of ppl talking about music on the internet (including here) are v pro that kind of music seems like a pretty good example of bogus grandstanding metanarration itself.

and sure you can make a case against it, feel free, but wilco are above this case because by and large (in my opinion at least) they're generally doing exactly what they set out to do

just like they are above any excessive praise

i'm sayin' what the music does to me, you can too, and we can argue till the cows etc. but the discourse is about subjective impression not how wilco are evil/saviours

it's not bogus grandstanding metanarration, and this ain't a competition. this backlash refers to stuff i've actually seen. and i said "minority" if yr taking notes. also i'm not pro any "kind" of music, i'm actually railing against those who would categorise very different bands in "kinds". "pitchfork indie" is a little strawman of my own, based around the fact that most of the "arty-indie-bollocks" music is itself honest, well-constructed and much better than anything the architects of its own demonisation could come up with.

"the ongoing "pitchfork indie" backlash" is a reverential term for the negative reverence of those who seek to prove that the music they discuss somehow detracts from music itself. somehow poisons. and is not a single offshoot artistic vision.

i still don't get how wilco are above criticism

like how doesn't

A combination of self-explanatory artistic decisions and attention to craft leaves the critic with little to say beyond "I liked it" and "I didn't like it".

refer to a bunch of bands

or artists/singers

yeah calling it a backlash when the majority of ppl talking about music on the internet (including here) are v pro that kind of music seems like a pretty good example of bogus grandstanding metanarration itself.

p.s. trying to score cheap rhetorical points rather than addressing the point at hand is the other main weapon of the lol backlash (insert scare quotes wherever tbh)

I perhaps phrased it badly. Wilco are BETTER than their criticism. They are not above it. Criticism of Wilco is still necessary to persuade people whether they are a band to be listened to or not. I appreciate they're not everyone's cup of tea. But criticism of Wilco can never be original or vital criticism. The band are far too explicit.

This guy needs to just go back to reviewing the album, not society, other critics, circumstances, and fans lack of appreciation for his other, more worldly music. Uggh.

The problem with the OPIB, in a nutshell. This is my final word.

btw sleeve's post from the second sentence onwards is the most arrogant, pompous dreck i've seen in a while here, even allowing for the fact that (s)he dislikes wilco

― restraint and blindness (Just got offed), Sunday, November 2, 2008 2:14 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark

definitely the most arrogant & pompous post on this thread, yep

i'm not anti-pitchfork at all. i think anyone can agree that a lot of the music they champion is very good, and some of it is not that good. isn't that the same of any publication/blog? the main problem i have with pitchfork is they sometimes/tend to give very high ratings to bands that aren't really fully formed yet, and haven't realized their potential (eg vivian girls, no age to an extent), which i think can hinder growth of said bands. anyway, i like both of those bands. also snl just came on, so i'm not really going to finish this thought

"NO, YOUR MOMMA!"

is the third main weapon of the BLAH WHATEVER IM GOIN TO BED

all i objected to was the defensiveness of the 'backlash' idea, because it seems to imply that ppl might be pretending not to like these bands in order to promote some sinister metanarrative. when the much more sensible conclusion is that some ppl actually don't like them, for any number of reasons. it's ok though: most ppl here still like wilco it seems. this backlash is doomed!

The idea that any band is necessarily above criticism is absurd. It's like, "they're honest musicians - leave them off!". Fluff, I tellsya, pure fluff.

by the "pitchfork indie" backlash, I mean the visible minority who go out of their way to slag off arty indie bands such as Radiohead and Wilco because of a perceived lack of real artistic integrity. there is no point pretending this lot don't exist. the lex

― restraint and blindness (Just got offed), Sunday, November 2, 2008 2:58 AM (13 hours ago) Bookmark

all i objected to was the defensiveness of the 'backlash' idea, because it seems to imply that ppl might be pretending not to like these bands in order to promote some sinister metanarrative. when the much more sensible conclusion is that some ppl actually don't like them, for any number of reasons. it's ok though: most ppl here still like wilco it seems. this backlash is doomed!

― jabba hands, Sunday, November 2, 2008 3:46 AM (12 hours ago) Bookmark

yeah it's funny, i've noticed that since i've stopped writing music criticism i've become much less convinced that anyone is engaged in the promotion of sinister metanarratives. wheels within wheels!

attempts to invent reasons for the creation of such narratives inevitably lead to massive imagined payola conspiracies lol

This is still a lovely album.

I guess this really should have gone in a Walls thread. But there isn't one.

So-called Oceangaze or Glo-Fi duo Walls remix 'Poor Places' by Wilco

this band sucks

u have a Joanna Newsom interview up there 2, A+

Rewatched the I Am Trying To Break Your Heart documentary last week (the whole thing's up on YouTube), and have been listening to the album again a lot since. I wish they could have found room for Venus Stop The Train (from the demo release) on it, maybe instead of Radio Cure. All good, though. I think the documentary is better when you've already heard the album a few times.

Oh jeez, Radio Cure's my favorite track off that record.

...and apparently it got 0 votes in the YHF tracks poll so nobody else thinks it's great. : (

xpost yeah, it's a great doc. kind of wish there was more "in studio" stuff, rather than the bennett/record label narrative, but that's probably just me.

This is a lovely record, aye, and there's no shame in liking it. Just don't treat it as either the end, or the beginning, of pop music.

But didn't they have a song called Pop is Dead?

Just don't treat it as either the end, or the beginning, of pop music.

This rule should apply to pretty much ever record ever.

in general, yes, but as ilx's resident Wilco stan i can say will full confidence that Yankee Hotel Foxtrot truly is the beginning and end of pop music

ksh, how do you rate Radio Cure and what is the best song from this album in your estimation?

But didn't they have a song called Pop is Dead?

― Otherwise you're kinda being comp-lit in his racism. (kkvgz)

Wilco's big hit was "Exit Music (For A Documentary Film)" iirc

"Radio Cure" is solid for sure -- it's like a later career "Dash 7" -- but the best song on the record is, probably, a three-way tie between "Ashes of American Flags," "Poor Places," and "Reservations"

Wilco's best record is a ghost is born, though, so fuck all this noise

live version of "Ashes of American Flags" from Kicking Television, ending in a not-on-the-studio-record Nels Cline guitar solo is also quite excellent

best track on this album is either IATTBYH or Poor Places

best Wilco song is Handshake Drugs

science

best Wilco song is Handshake Drugs

LJ, you are a good dude, but this is COMPLETELY FUCKIN WRONG

also Less Than You Think is awesome

I may be expressing them to rile, but I actually hold these opinions

LTYT -> The Late Greats is some sequencing genius

Radio Cure is best Wilco song

xpost

"Less Than You Think Is" awesome, and the fact that it goes straight into "The Late Greats" to end the record is great

the best Wilco song, though, is "At Least That's What You Said"

Ha ha ha! Good humour abounds because the sun's out and it's a Friday... but really everyone knows Summerteeth is the album right?

awesome record, definitely their third best though, even if it is the first in their three album run of essential records

Still haven't heard Summerteeth

the best Wilco song, though, is "At Least That's What You Said"

^^^^^^^^

Here's the ksh guide to Wilco's discography:

Essential: Summerteeth, Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, A ghost is born
Excellent: Kicking Television
Patchy: Being There
Slight, but good: AM
Eh, not awful but whatever -- some good tunes, at least: Wilco (the album)
Are you fuckin kiddin me dogg?: Sky Blue Sky

Actually, I'd roundly agree with this^

Being as I agree with four of those placements entirely and haven't heard any of the others, I may have to hear Summerteeth

Opening track of Sky Blue Sky is quite good, IIRC - shame about the rest (Wilco (the album) extends this to the first FOUR tracks before sputtering into mediocrity)

Can I please see the ksh guide to Sleigh Bells' discography?

LJ, get thee Summerteeth. their most poppy record, but still really weird

ilxor dogg, it'd just be "dope debut" O_O

I quite like Sky Blue Sky, but most of the time, I skip the mid-tempo plod of the intro/verses and just fast-forward to the guitar solos.

So you listen to, like, five minutes of the record?

the song 'impossible germany' on repeat morelike

That and the closing track are the only good songs on that record iirc.

http://sickmouthy.com/2013/05/12/wilco-yankee-hotel-foxtrot-2002/

Good piece. I think this album has aged well, actually. I've always been impressed with its relative austerity, especially following the denser "Summerteeth." There's a lot of space on this disc, which helps casts its moving parts in stark relief. The tour behind it, before the album had officially been released but after it leaked, was a remarkable thing. The date I saw in Anaheim was particularly memorable. Totally respectful crowd, Tweedy tearing himself apart, people crying (!), a novel sense of community at singing along to songs everyone had heard but no one had released yet. I've never seen many shows quite like that, and given that rehab was not too far off in Tweedy's future, he probably couldn't handle too many more like that, either.

i agree with you re. the austerity of this album. i think it really is a masterpiece, whatever people think of wilco's indie sincerity/corniness. the fact of the cover and that it was first streamed in September 2001 always leant it a kind of gothic aura to me that has been enhanced with repeated listens. it is a lonely album.

in their top three albums, with a ghost is born and summerteeth

i'd take it over summerteeth probably

coincidentally I sold my copy about two weeks ago

i think summerteeth > YHF > a ghost is born, but they are all good. i don't feel strongly about wilco's other efforts, really.

Being There may remain my fave, but there's a confluence of reasons why YHF is special/notable.

check out some of the demos too if you have time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdZLroTtYDo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb6ZwRcyxjc

cool, thanks, i'll listen to them when mad men's over

there's a bunch more shit out there but that's what i found in two seconds on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MSYgSSS-Lg

there are two different sets of demos for yankee hotel foxtrot floating around on the internet, one called something like "engineer's demos" or whatever. (do a quick google search for "yankee hotel foxtrot demos", and you'll find some shit.) the songs in the first two videos i posted above are, i think, probably from those volumes. the third song might be too, but it was also released by the band at some point.

this might be worth checking out: http://captainsdead.com/yankee-hotel-foxtrot-demos.html

For those who aren't from here, the building on the cover, btw, is Marina City, aka Corncob Towers, or Bike Handle Towers, which is just a condo building (designed by Bertrand Goldberg) overlooking the river downtown, right by the House of Blues and a bunch of touristy restaurants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWtZ_C0DS1s

The towers are famous in architecture circles.

Jesus, etc might be my favorite song of all time.

I heard it in the supermarket last week.

probably just on half of these songs are spectacular. have never quite unconditionally tapped into the merits of the final two tracks, and that's probably why i'd fall short of calling the album a masterpiece. it does hold a very dear place in my heart though. despite its devastating subject matter and those really unsettling metaphors that enliven everyday struggle with a kind of poetic gravitas, it's interestingly a less harrowing listen track by track than either Summerteeth or A Ghost is Born. but if i'm looking for a quick, abridged fix of YHF's virtues, i'll cut straight to "Kamera" or maybe "Pot Kettle Black" these days. sadly burnt out on some of the rest.

i really like this record -- summerteeth > YHF > a ghost is born is probably right, but a pretty great run of records however you rank em. i saw wilco several times on this tour and yeah, it was kind of a special thing, in that the band hadn't quite figured out how to play the YHF stuff onstage but they were reaching for greatness in an inspired way. there was a vulnerability there that the lineup these days (as powerful as they are) doesn't have.

I'm not a dad, but felt like one tonight while playing this record.

heard Kamera in a potbelly today

Has anybody an idea what Yankee Hotel Foxtrot stands for? My theory goes as follows. They are using the spelling alphabet in the title so those three words spell YHF. YHF stands for "You Have Failed". The reason being that Reprise refused to release the album and Wilco had to stream it on their website for free before they signed with Nonesuch.

nice theory, but wasn't the title in place before the label kicked it back to them?

They'd have had to change the end of Poor Places pretty quickly!

Check out the latest video from "everybody hides" for a nice YHF cover reference.

That's a pretty cute video. They should get a kickback from the Chicago tourism board.

i think it just sounds cool

re: the title

i always just assumed it was a reference to the static chatter one can hear when tuned into cb / ham radiowaves. isn't the entirety of the lyrics to 'poor places' just excerpts from random radio conversations?

That's what I always figured. I know Tweedy reading books about WWII (I?) was a big influence on the album, iirc.

Isn't the title just taken from one of the numbers stations recordings that got used?

That's what I always thought? Surprised to hear there was any other consideration to the title/meaning.

tweedy's lyrics really haven't aged well have they

Had the realization over the weekend that YHF is actually my least favorite of the Wilco albums from the 00s. Sky Blue Sky is the best.

""Yankee, hotel, foxtrot" can be heard in a woman's voice on YHF's penultimate track, "Poor Places." It was sampled from the fourth track on "The Conet Project," a collection of recordings from so-called numbers stations.

Numbers stations are generally understood to be used by intelligence agencies to transmit coded messages across long distances. As he discusses in "I Am Trying To Break Your Heart," the documentary about the album's creation, Jeff Tweedy had heard "The Conet Project" in the run-up to recording "YHF" and was fascinated by it.

Including the "Conet" sample on the record wound up costing Wilco -- Irdial Records, which released it, sued for copyright infringement. The case was settled out of court."

all that does not explain what YHF is supposed to stand for originally. what is the transmitted coded message behind? if it comes from an intelligence agency it could of course also mean nothing at all, just be noise to confuse the enemy. i prefer my theory though there may be time issues with it. maybe the meaning was subconscious.

If it was part of a coded message, who knows what it may have meant?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTiQkXPtq1g

deciphering does not get easier when the message is repeated on and on and on. or does the number of repititions mean something? or is that just a loop? i cannot detect any variation in her pronunciation, stressing of syllables or voice volume.

https://www.answers.com/Q/Alpha_mike_foxtrot

this takes care of that rarities box anyway I guess

yhf =

yahoo! high five!

yikes, hit fastforward.

you highfalutin fucker.

yoooo, how fortuitous.

Man a bunch of bands sampled that Conet Project CD over the years, I wonder if they went after any of the others.

The 'Engineer's' demo of Poor Places is great, a little spookier because of a bunch of numbers stations woven throughout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1FRg3CN7yM

Man, this needs an expanded reissue with all the discarded tracks, demos, etc. There's basically an entire extra album of early versions and radically different takes that's just as good.

Didn't they more or less do that already?

Among my favorite memories of this era was seeing a few (intense!) shows before the album was officially released and watching everyone singing along with the new stuff they'd already all heard.

Had the realization over the weekend that YHF is actually my least favorite of the Wilco albums from the 00s. Sky Blue Sky is the best.
― sctttnnnt (pgwp), Thursday, September 19, 2019 11:31 AM

hmm, interesting thought — even though i'd agree sky blue rates very high. i definitely think yhf is better than wilco the album tho.

overall, i'd have a tough time picking between sky blue, ghost is born, and the whole love.

Oh yeah, that's true. I was thinking Wilco The Album was 2010, but it's 09.

don't mean to bash wilco the album tho — it's p solid, e.g. 'bull black nova', 'everylasting everything', etc.

Jeff Tweedy's lyrics on this are NOT terrible.... they are beautiful, more clever than he ever was before

yeah - probably very uncool to say this but to me YHF towers easily above the rest of his oeuvre, esp lyrically.

he has some great moments on Summerteeth and AGIB but YHF is back to back awesome lyrically

"Heavy Metal Drummer" just showed up on a playlist. I've never heard this before. This ... sounds like Pavement? Was Wilco supposed to be a band that sounded like Pavement? I have never heard them identified as such. Obviously I mean "relaxed Gold Soundz / much of Brighten the Corners" type Pavement" not "Debris Slide pavement"

I don't really mean the production, just mostly, the way the vocal line sounds and the way the words fit into the lines?

it sounds a lot like cut your hair yeah

Right, it sounds like Cut Your Hair covered in the style of Range Life

It's kind of funny to me that you're enough of an indie fan to know the nuances of the types of Pavement songs but in all these years you've never encountered YHF? I'm not scoffing at it, but it's a little surprising- a hard album to avoid for this many years with all the worship it received in the indieverse.

We're somewhere around the 20th anniversary of when YHF was originally supposed to be released.

Yeah, it was an outlier in their catalog for sure, especially at the time. I always felt like it didn't belong on YHF, better as a B-side that becomes a live favorite or something.

It's kind of funny to me that you're enough of an indie fan to know the nuances of the types of Pavement songs but in all these years you've never encountered YHF? I'm not scoffing at it, but it's a little surprising- a hard album to avoid for this many years with all the worship it received in the indieverse.

Indie is a big tent, I listened to a ton of Pavement and Belle and Sebastian and Mountain Goats in the 90s but have never listened to a Wilco or Radiohead or Neutral Milk Hotel album all the way through and couldn't hum a song by any of them except "Creep"

I'm a Pave head but have never heard this song (to my knowledge). I don't think it sounds too much like Pvmt, tbh, though I guess I hear what folks are saying.

"Can't Stand It" was the one on "Summerteeth" that was iirc supposed to be the big single. It wasn't, but it fits perfectly well on the record. "Heavy Metal Drummer" sticks out like it was supposed to be the big single, and while it wasn't released as a single, it still kind of sticks out. I've always found it mildly annoying but mostly innocuous (like a few of REM's similarly annoying but harmless songs), and I suppose it does well breaking the mood up a bit.

The essay (by Bill Bentley?) in the box set about the YHF period is pretty funny: The incoming head of Reprise declaring "There'll be no ugly bands on my label!" and sending the singer of his (unnamed) favored signed group to a fat farm for a makeover.

I remember that Wilco tour supporting the album (when it actually came out, not when it was in limbo). It was one of my first concerts, and it was fun singing along with "Heavy Metal Drummer" - it definitely felt like it should've been a hit single. It seemed to fit just fine at the time, and I guess in the grand scheme of things I have nothing against rock albums that throw in a track like that because there's nothing wrong with having some fun even when you're swinging for the fences. Aspiring to high art shouldn't mean humorlessness. I remember when detractors tried to knock that album for being pretentious or self-important, and it's like really? "Heavy Metal Drummer"? "I'm the Man Who Loves You"?

... starting a song and album with the words "I Am An American Aquarium Drinker"

Wilco (The Song) came on once and despite owning that (disappointing) album I spent a few seconds trying to remember which late-period Pavement song it was

Went to the 20th Anniversary show in Chicago last night. It was wonderful. Full band + 3 horns + a string quartet. Did the whole album front to back with all the interludes and studio details performed live, no commentary or talking that I recall. YHF is canon for me, and to see it played with such care and reverence was very cool. The run of "Heavy Metal Drummer" -> "I'm the Man Who Loves You" (Jeff on lead guitar) -> "Pot Kettle Black", with horns, nearly brought the house down.

After the album they played a handful of older and rarer songs, including a YHF outtake I'd never heard. Closed with "Monday" and "Outtasite (Outta Mind)" -- again, the horns really took these to another place.

yeah saw them with horns about a decade ago, I remember "Monday" and "Pieholden Suite" were both fantastic. I'm going to Solid Sound for the first time next month - I wonder if they'll do the YHF set, I haven't seen it announced anywhere...

Man, I should've caught one of the NYC shows. One of the very first rock concerts I ever saw was from their 2002 tour, so I didn't feel a need to go, but it didn't occur to me how different and more elaborate they would sound for these anniversary shows. The core band itself was smaller for those 2002 shows, and they didn't have a horn section and a string quarter joining them either.

Also, I imagine most people here saw the tracklist of the upcoming box set. Eight discs for the CD version...it's tempting, but I've barely touched the bootleg of demos and studio material that I already have.

thinking pretty hard about going to solid sound (wilco's festival in western mass.). the first night is billed as a "special set" from wilco, so i imagine that will be yankee hotel foxtrot.

11 LPs...geez.

I was at the saturday show, same setlist but with 'i got you' swapped for 'monday'. I was surprised at how exacting it was in terms of all the transitions and noises and such.

a lot of the boxset looks likely be the demos/early studio versions that have been floating around for ages, but there's some stuff there that hasn't been available before & it'll be cool to have them all properly contextualised

most interesting is the yhf-era versions of "hummingbird" which i had no idea existed, and the "stravinsky mix" of "ashes of american flags" which tweedy said has an excerpt of stravinksy's "symphony of psalms" playing throughout the entire song but they couldn't clear the sample for the original album and cited it as one of his favourite things he's ever done

A serious question of the utmost importance: do y'all consider this album as being from 2001 (the year of its band-sanctioned internet leak), or 2002 (the physical release)? These days, an album would undoubtedly be seen as belonging to the year it became digitally available, but this was kind of a pioneering record in that regard. I've been putting together some yearly best-of compilations, and I wouldn't want future generations stumbling upon them and thinking me an utter fraud for so horribly misrepresenting this album's place in something as epoch-defining as some dude's personal Apple Music playlists.

I actually remember the 2001 stream being of very low quality - like Real Audio or something like that. When I got the CD in 2002, it was an enormous improvement, even for someone like myself who was listening to most of their music on a portable player and headphones. So I usually peg it as 2002 simply because the presentation wasn't completely there until then.

I will say when releases get delayed substantially, I sometimes end up going with the earlier "leak" date. Like Dylan's "Basement Tapes" will always be 1967 to me partly for that reason. Then there's the Modern Lovers album which came out 1976, but I think of it as an earlier release, even though the date is still hazy, like 1971 or 1972. Same with Big Star's Third.

i must have nabbed it from filesharing bc the CDR i remember listening to was definitely better than realaudio stream quality. i firmly peg it as a 2001 release, both bc thats the year the band released it and thats the year that i was steeped in it & everyone was talking about it. when i think about YHF i think about fall 2001.

Aw man, I wish I did file sharing then but I didn't have good internet at home, just at the library or school.

Very much think of it as 2001 album--listened to the mp3s so much before the physical release, to the degree I forgot it was so much later.

There's a new podcast called Kitschfork whose first episode covers this album. The hosts look at the album itself in detail and consider the massive press response to it as part of their overall project of looking back at Pitchfork's influence in the 00's indie music scene. I thought it was pretty interesting!

anybody heard this?

(a few of the tracks are certainly not new to me, but the rest would be.)

the early "hummingbird" from the unified theory of everything disc would be right at home on amnesiac

this version of "i am trying to break your heart" stays permanently in drones + wild percussion mode, cool to hear but really emphasises how much the album was a triumph of the mixing desk

"ashes of american flags (stravinsky mix)" is really cool

lmao the wah pedal that's all through "pot kettle black" is so goofy

oh wow this "poor places" is the biggest difference, totally different arrangement

where are you hearing this

it's out on streaming today

ahhh!

cannot find it in the UK though

it's listed as 'yankee hotel foxtrot (deluxe edition)'

though the digital release isn't the full boxset, it's missing the other three discs of outtakes/demos/early versions, so i haven't heard those yet

found it thanks.

Unified Theory is not simply Jay's mix then? What is it?

it's definitely not his mix (i don't think he made a full mix of the album to begin with, only a few tracks), it's just a set of alternate versions of tracks from what's clearly fairly far along in the process - though i expect the full liner notes in the boxset explains it. they spent a long time messing around in the studio recording many different arrangements of every track & it's some of the results of that + an early version of "hummingbird" that didn't make the album. some of the arrangements are very different from the final version, & some are just incomplete and in an earlier state or only part of what was used in the final mix. "ashes of american flags (stravinsky mix)" was intended for the final album though but they couldn't clear the stravinsky sample that goes throughout the entire track originally.

combined with the long-ago-leaked "engineer demo" collections that also probably make up some of the other discs in the set it's an extremely cool insight into the creative process of the album

Damn I wanted to splurge the whole super deluxe in one go but this will suffice for now

I'm reading some reports elsewhere from those who have the CDs of the full set, saying that the third disc is very 'Jay-esque'... the presence of Venus and Shakin' Sugar would only add to that

seeing reports that some of the other discs include some of the well-bootlegged demos/studio wip versions but a lot is still completely new

That does not bother me as those boots were goldmine to begin with

I love YHF but these alternate mixes really highlight how truly bad it could have been. It's a near miracle that Jim O'Rourke managed to pull off what he did.

Full-band Venus Stopped The Train is what I now want to hear though. I always wondered if the Ken Coomer appearances on the songs that reappears on the Bennet/Burch album had anything to do with repurposing tracks laid down during the YHF sessions

xpost much of the stuff that has just come out sounds like entirely different takes though? Pot Kettle Black possibly being one expection

Listening again now and I think the Stravinsky version of Ashes is another performance entirely. Hence you get the second outro which resembles that from the album

some of them are different versions entirely while some of them sound like they were heavily used in the final mixes - "i am trying to break your heart" was clearly edited together from this drones & percussion version as well as other takes such as the rhodes-driven version on the engineer demos bootleg, "radio cure" is pretty close to the final just the drums are different & it's missing a lot of the keyboard parts from the final version, "jesus, etc." seems to just be missing the strings, and so on

"ashes of american flags" isn't a different performance entirely but there are still a lot of differences from the final apart from just the sample - the drums are different (iirc bennett played the take that was used on the final version while it sounds like the stravinsky mix was kotche), there's a lot of synths added in places in the final version to try to capture the feeling of the removed sample & the way the main piano & guitar fade in and out is different

Nice. Are there detailed credits in the box? Can hear what sounds like Jeff lead guitar on the Stravinsky version too

Never knew Jay drummed on the final version either. Only now I can notice it's obviously not Glenn. Always assume the even earlier version that leaked in 2002 was Ken "not feeling the song" but no idea now.

the most 'who plays what' info we have available for yhf is just from this interview with bennett where he lists what he played on each track: https://gloriousnoise.com/jay-bennett-yhf

ah apparently the story with the stravinsky mix was that it's just a rough mix from when they were playing around with the idea of using the sample, but they found out they couldn't get clearance before the final mix was finished or anything which is why there's still a bunch of other changes

ooh there's a lovely full-band take of "venus stopped the train" on the american aquarium disc

The Stravinsky mix:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOMOB0I7rOc

As is, once it gets past the intro, I'm not sure it really works - it feels a little sloppy at times, like it needs more finessing. Very interesting though.

(To clarify, I mean the mix and getting the sample to really work within it.)

I listened to some of this box set today and I think Tweedy should send Jim O'Rourke a bouquet of flowers once a week for the rest of his life

Paul Ponzi otm.

agreed so far. I like the sorta mangled “when the levee breaks” drum take on the unified theory take.

It's not something I'd want to buy, but it plays like a great collection for a research library - something I'd explore only once or twice, but invaluable in showing how this album was made.

there's a few real gems & it's an absolutely fascinating insight into the creative process behind it, one of the very best as far as these sort of deluxe reissues go

Absolutely. I knew a lot was written (or rather speculated) in terms of how the album evolved, and I remember Kot (either in his book or elsewhere at the time) mentioning that one of the big misconceptions surrounding the album was that O'Rourke was all about adding experimental elements to it when he mainly took thing out as if he was distilling the mix. Even with those details, it still left a lot to the imagination, so it's really edifying to have these recordings finally available.

*took things

I started off thinking 'the song is strong enough to survive anything' but jeez, I had to turn it off about 2 minutes in. The drums are actively annoying.

the one song that _is_ more experimental in the final mix is "poor places", very different from all the earlier takes. i'm up to the barrel-scraping "lonely in the deep end" disc now.

barrel-scraping

I'm surprised no one's been cheeky enough to title a box set bonus disc that very phrase.

From these descriptions it sounds like 'yankee hotel foxtrot (drag city edition)' -- messing around in ways that could be unlistenable or brilliant or both.

I'm surprised no one's been cheeky enough to title a box set bonus disc that very phrase.

― birdistheword

https://gentlegiantmusic.com/GG/Scraping_the_Barrel

From these descriptions it sounds like 'yankee hotel foxtrot (drag city edition)' -- messing around in ways that could be unlistenable or brilliant or both.

― The self-titled drags (Eazy)

you could definitely put together an "all-avant-garde" version of the album from the stuff here. maybe i'll work on that project!

the album version of "poor places" is so different because restructuring it so radically was o'rourke's idea so that happened at a very late stage in the process

ok, i went ahead and did it:

Lost on the Sidewalk: The Unlistenable _Yankee Hotel Foxtrot_

Finally, Wilco has their own _Black Belt in Boogie_ - an unlistenably avant-garde record that everybody hates and which probably _isn't_ releasable. I am, of course, a staunch defender. The haters may claim that the John Bonham drums on "I Am Trying To Break Your Heart" are way overmixed, that the talkbox on "Pot Kettle Black" is wholly unnecessary, that the overly obtrusive Stravinsky interpolation and the gratuitous use of numbers stations recordings ruin what otherwise would be perfectly fine songs, that the keyboard wobble and woozy Mellotron on "Reservations" is way overdone, that "Has Anybody Seen My Pencil?" is obviously an unfinished jam that _maybe_ could have been a song if they'd done some actual work on it, that for God's sake they had perfectly good songs like "Jesus, Etc.", "A Magazine Called Sunset", and "Shakin' Sugar" that would have been _greatly_ improved the album, maybe replacing something like the obvious Radiohead knockoff "Remember to Remember". Nonsense. The album is _perfect as it is_. Y'all just don't appreciate the sublime artistry of Jeff Tweedy and Jay Bennett.

I Am Trying To Break Your Heart (The Unified Theory of Everything)
Kamera (The Unified Theory of Everything)
Radio Cure (Here Comes Everybody)
Has Anybody Seen My Pencil? (Lonely in the Deep End)
Venus Stopped the Train (American Aquarium)
I'm the Man Who Loves You (American Aquarium)
Ashes of American Flags (Stravinsky Mix) (The Unified Theory of Everything)
Pot Kettle Black (The Unified Theory of Everything)
Remember to Remember (The Unified Theory of Everything)
Poor Places (Yankee Hotel Foxtrot)
Reservations (The Unified Theory of Everything)

there's a 6 minute version of "poor places" on the long-ago bootlegged 'engineer demos' collection (but unfortunately left off the boxset) that's clearly an early take of the new structure that o'rourke came up with - the piano is still a fair-bit more bar-band than the album version etc. - so i'd include that version on that

good suggestion! jeez, i can almost hear mal evans counting to 32 on that one.

Thanks for that mix rushomancy, going to cobble together a playlist once I get a chance to rip the box.

yw! i actually put together two more mixes:

Not for the Season: The pop _Yankee Hotel Foxtrot_

It was hard to know what to expect when it was announced that Wilco would be working with Jim O'Rourke, but it certainly wasn't this album of 2 1/2 to 4 minute pop songs. It's catchy, but there's not really a lot here that wasn't done better and with more emotional depth on _summerteeth_. In some ways it's even a callback to _Being There_, what with the banjo on songs like "War on War". There's some interesting experiments, like the Optigan on "The Good Part", but overall? A solid double, maybe. Not a grand slam. A little bit of a disappointment given that before the album came out they were playing some pretty interesting tracks live, like "Cola" and "I Am Trying To Break Your Heart". Might be nice to hear studio recordings of those songs - it's rumored they were dropped due to record company interference. A shame if so.

Not for the Season (Here Comes Everybody)
Kamera (Here Comes Everybody)
Cars Can't Escape (Here Comes Everybody)
War on War (American Aquarium)
Jesus, Etc. (Yankee Hotel Foxtrot)
Shakin' Sugar (American Aquarium)
Pot Kettle Black (Yankee Hotel Foxtrot)
Poor Places (American Aquarium)
Heavy Metal Drummer (Yankee Hotel Foxtrot)
The Good Part (Here Comes Everybody)
I'm the Man Who Loves You (The Unified Theory of Everything)
A Magazine Called Sunset (The Unified Theory of Everything)
Anniversary (American Aquarium)

---

Lost Poem: The _Yankee Hotel Foxtrot_ basement tapes

Wilco's projected followup to _summerteeth_ (often known as "Here Comes Everybody", though the band abandoned that name before they abandoned the sessions) is one of the great "What ifs" of rock history. The band had started recording what was supposed to be a more experimental follow-up to the album, and was working with Jim O'Rourke. Unfortunately, the sessions were a chaotic affair, beset by personnel changes, with the recording collapsing after Jay Bennett's acrimonious departure/firing (depending on who you ask) from the band. While the sessions were productive in that they were the root of Tweedy and O'Rourke's long-running Loose Fur project - and indeed, "Not for the Season" would show up on the Loose Fur record in longer, more experimental form as "Laminated Cat" - one can't help but wish that Wilco had at least managed to finish the record. Songs like "American Aquarium" and "I am Trying to Break Your Heart" had genuine potential, and it's a shame that they were never finished. All that remains is this rough bootleg of loose rehearsal jams.

American Aquarium (American Aquarium)
Poor Places (The Unified Theory of Everything)
Pot Kettle Black (Here Comes Everybody)
Not for the Season (American Aquarium)
Has Anybody Seen My Pencil? (Lonely in the Deep End)
I'm the Man Who Loves You (Lonely in the Deep End)
Jesus, Etc. (The Unified Theory of Everything)
Remember to Remember (Here Comes Everybody)
Lost Poem (Lonely in the Deep End)
Love Will (Let You Down) (Lonely in the Deep End)
The Good Part (Lonely in the Deep End)
Ashes of American Flags (Here Comes Everybody)
I Am Trying to Break Your Heart (American Aquarium)

listened to the live set & the versions of "misunderstood" and "sunken treasure" on there are wildly different arrangements i'd never heard before, fascinating

Didn't see this shared yet:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/03/arts/music/wilco-yankee-hotel-foxtrot.html

Tweedy had a solo version of sunken treasure with that arrangement from early 2000, but I hadn’t heard the full band accompaniment (or I probably have and age is doing its thing :/)

I recently got the 2CD version and wanted to figure out what else I should cherry pick from the Super Deluxe box. This was very helpful: https://raisemyglasstothebside.wordpress.com/2022/10/02/wilco-yankee-hotel-foxtrot-outtakes/

It's crazy how the skyline in NYC looks exactly like the cover art for YHF but without the need for filters or anything else. Stay indoors if you can.

looks exactly like the western U.S. every August/September for the past 5-7 years, too.

Pictures of Marina Towers here today would capture a near-cloudless sky blue sky.

xp i know my last comment was annoying. forgive me. i kept it off social media all day and let it slip here.

hope it clears out soon, east coast.

Thriftbooks is selling the big-ass vinyl box for $81 after taxes, free shipping. I never even considered buying the box but that's a hell of a deal.

https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/yankee-hotel-foxtrot/1000304988/#edition=65465728&idiq=54276503

!

thanks for the heads up

Thanks!