New Joanna Newsom Album "Ys" Due Nov 14

http://www.falcom.co.jp/licence/character/image/ys_logo.jpg

Last I heard of "Only Skin," it was about 14+ minutes long, a high-wire feat of derring-do filled w/ striking imagery and memorable melodies, stretching her style to see how much it can take. If you don't dig the literary aspects of what she's doing, you might snap off the stereo in disgust, but unless the production fucks this thing up I'd say she's challenged herself and was not found wanting. Possesses the same sense of ineffable longing that got "Sprout and the Bean" stuck in my craw. If you've listened to enough of her stuff you can sense her rhythms burbling through the lyrics, even if the song's unheard:

rowing along among the reeds, among the rushes
i heard your song before my heart had time to hush it
smell of a stonefruit being cut and being open
smell of a low and of a lazy cinder smoking

and when the fire moves away,
fire moves away, son
why would you say
i was the last one?

...

and the cities we passed were a flickering wasteland
but his hand in my hand made them pale and harmless
and down in the lowlands the crops are all coming; we have everything
life is thundering blissful t'wards death
and the stampede of his fumbling green gentleness

Not sure how fitting an introduction this album will make for newbies, however. Like, where's the single, man?

I mean... she's twee enough already so I really hope this doesn't emphasise the fairies & unicorns side *even more* because what's convinced friends of mine of her greatness is the live shows being (allegedly!) really raw and unpolished and more compelling by far than her studio arrangements.

I will definitely make an effort to hear this though.

his fumbling green gentleness

...

yeah I didn't come close to digesting the songs; I was struck so dumb at the sheer endurance involved in that performance it was impossible to follow the plots music-wise or lyric-wise(between the stretches of anxious boredom lets be honest). Jim O'Rourke yay though.

makes me think of the 20+ minute Cerberus Shoal songs from a few years ago, where a female voice goes on and on and never ends. oddly moving and trance-inducing.

Seriously though, it sounds like this might be the one I finally like. I've tried unsuccessfully with the others.

What's next?
Producer: Brian Eno
Tape Op: John Goodmanson
Gofer: Thurston Moore
Footrubs: Flood

I think if we all grab one of these we can have her body strung up by dawn tomorrow.

But then you'd have to deal with Smog going all Charles Bronson on your ass...

Does Callahan basically nail every female artist loosely related to the new folk movement?

I don't think I want to know about Bill screwing, I have an established image that I don't want ruined (teeth gnashing through flesh, girls held down on hardwood floors, etc.)

add HEAT and BREATH emanating from a sea of sweaty motherfuckers equals ANXIETY. That I enjoyed it as much as I did is a testament to her (enjoyable, on the whole)performance - seriously - but I was just fried at that point. When's the next Arthurthingy anyway Jay?

http://www.ticketweb.com/user/?region=xxx&query=search&interface=ticketweb&newhps=1&search=arthurnights&x=13&y=13

WTF?

or a big pile of over-indulgent bolls. we'll see. i'm hoping for the former, natch.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/ys.jpg

http://www.company-q.com/images/ren%20fest.jpg

http://www.ren-fest.com/pic25.jpg

http://biology.creighton.edu/faculty/nolan/Black%20RenFest-CUweb%20.jpg

http://i.b5z.net/i/u/555708/i/alexxushostcontest_ezr.jpg

If you crack the code Kit Williams comes to your house and gives you a solid gold CDR of the album that was buried in soft peat on Bodmin Moor.

She's holding a picture of a cosmia butterfly. Beyond that, you'll have to refer to your grimoire, perhaps cast a few runes.

Wait til you see the accompanying press photo.

Damned saving throws.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/newsom.jpg

"Is that a pelt on your head or are you just happy to see me?"

aside from the kitschy artwork, it has a really bad font.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0316895016.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg
http://www.willesdenbookshop.co.uk/sections/section11/images/sect11image19.jpg

(Damon Albarn, 1986)

plus lame cover art and promo shots

the only thing she's got going for her is the VDP association
which she paid for FYI

but Van Dyke Parks arranging? damn..

ehhhh oh well. i am still anticipating it highly. hopefully it'll all make sense once we hear it.

Jim O’ Rourke

http://eil.com/newgallery/Alan-Stivell-Renaissance-Of-Th-261086.jpg

What, you mean like how men are back and rock is always back and all that? Thanks Jim.

Jim O'RLY

She is really sharp.

Jim O'RLY

Ha! I actually really like this album, although irrespective of the 11-minute average track length, she has done more interesting things with her voice and lyrics than with the music

That might actually be why it's good.

Still . . . VDP

I've never understood the appeal of VDP's arrangements. He always sounds like he's transcribing Fairport Convention solos. I wish Newsom had considered Jon Brion or Wolfgang Rihm.

Wikipedia entry on 'Ys'

Also, someone on the K Records message board has posted a list of many more albums Pitchfork supposedly leaked:

I already know that this link to said post won't last forever, though

(I hope those links work.)

I'm not saying that I really know anything or have any real sources, I'm just saying that words are going around, is all. But, if any of this is true, I'd love, love, love to see Pitchfork go down. Fuck those bitches (save Nitsuh).

And dleone & Tim Finney.

It's all enough to make me pine for an acid house revival. This "weird America" folkiness has to stop NOW. But the kitschy hubris of the Joanna Newsom sleeve might just do the trick. Hippies are always their own worst enemy. Ha ha ha.

All right, Hot Hot Heat.

...An acid house revival would rock the shithouse, though.

I hope there's something there I'll discover in forthcoming listens, but at the moment: WTF?

This is an album of really gorgeous moments (so far, still percolating) but I'm still quite dubious of her whole damn thing really.

there's definitely a sort of blandness to the actual sounds though, despite how well they move here.

It's so gorgeous..."and all those lonely nights down by the RIIIVERRR"

The movement between parts reminds me of the randomizing systems used by Eno in "Three Variations on Canon in D," except that here there seems to be an element of mutual inspiration between the words and the music. None of the songs ever achieve resolution, but simply peter out when the time is right.

The whole thing is pretty syrupy and smooth, but I think that her poetry is strong enought to overcome the lack of edges. And it's full of absolutely gorgeous melodies.

If you wanted it to sound like Rufus Wainwright... then yeah, I guess.

... maybe, but the fact that it's the first track on the most famous HARP album in modern folk music is surely no coincidence

The first sign of the apocalypse?

http://www.bumpershine.com/2006/09/01/joanna-newsom-ys-a-closer-look.html

I've been listening to it all weekend. I have some thoughts but no time to organize them.

she's shown admirable restraint in keeping this under 3 discs of material I guess.

as opposed to Sufjan "bank! bank! bank now!" Stevens...

-- Ned Raggett (ne...), September 5th, 2006. (Ned) (link)

Haha. Indeed.

-My beautiful and astute wife, reacting to my praise of this record as it played on our long car trip this afternoon

Much like the time she challenged me to defend the Minutemen's "slap bass parts," I was at a loss.

She's becoming the Andy Rooney of indie rock, that one.

My opinion on YS is unchanged, however - a meticulous, dense and beautiful record I will definitely be coming back to often. Reminds me of Astral Weeks in places. Anyone else?

But her latest output is watered-down grocery store music, I'll give you that.

-- Wand Milius

Yup. Also In the Aeroplane Over the Sea.

I think I'm waiting until its release to finally listen to Ys. My only regret is that her publicity shot couldn't have been the album cover. Don't labels care about record sales anymore?

Ha, that's the only one they pretty much didn't do anything to. It's still just harp and voice.

"Cosmia" is relatively short and snappy and it has a killer Joni Mitchell-ish hook. Well, it's 7 minutes long but that's as close as you're gonna get.

Anyway:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/Three_female_druids.jpg/727px-Three_female_druids.jpg

-- M. V. (m...), September 5th, 2006.

----------

Oh, please.

-- Owen Pallett (opallet...), September 3rd, 2006. (Owen Pallett) (link)

a) That comparison doesnt make any sense whatsoever. VDP predates Fairport Convention. Also, he sounds nothing like FC.

b) Rihm? C'mon, man. Typical 20th century classical garbage. Super heavy emo 12 tone stuff and whatnot.

c) Jon Brion is a sub par Brian Wilson wanna-be.

Personally, I think VDP is the perfect foil to Joanna's quirky americana song cycle broadway musical tunes.

she's got a litte kristin hersh

I looked at The Milk Eyed Mender in my cd pile last night and suddenly felt quite fond and nostalgic...

I think I hate this album. and for gods sake do NOT listen to it stoned, it doesn't 'open up' as much as it becomes completely ridiculous and annoying.

On second thought I'd describe Parks' arrangement style as somewhat similar to Shooby Taylor. Melodic scatting over otherwise finished songs.

His work on this album kills. Totally the best.

their vocal tone, at times, is exactly the same. that's all. You're right about Kristin Hersh having more fire, more stream-of-conciousness.

i think i don't like this either. otm about smoking up w/ this.

First, my timeline is not backwards. FC was formed in the late 60s. VDP was already making music in the late 50s and was signed before the FC were and in totally different contexts.

What I've heard of Rihm gave me that impression, and if you want to provide examples that go against that or want to talk about why you think he's so great, I'm willing to listen.

I've always hated her voice but respected her. I want so much to like it but 9 minutes of NON stop singing about bears and monkeys just drives me insane

My biggest problem with Ys is the orchestration, which either distracts from her harp/voice (at best) or overwhelms her (at worst). At first I liked the strings quite a bit, but with subsequent listens they became an obstruction to divining the words and underlying shapes of the pieces. They blunt the drama. The dynamics would be more evident if the songs weren't slathered over with those damn strings buzzing in and out of the mix like dragonflies. The inorganic recording process may also be a factor - if it had been recorded live with an orchestra there might be a more integrated sense of dynamics.

Granted, I have heard these tracks unadorned on live recordings however I made a concerted effort to evaluate the album on its own terms. After many listens, I find "Sawdust & Diamonds," the only unaccompanied piece, to be the most affecting. I can pinpoint this moment of clarity - I was listening to the album while doing some repair work in the house, and it was fine background music until "Sawdust & Diamonds" came on. Without realizing it, I had come to a complete stop in order to pay full attention to the song. I was transfixed. The sun was setting through the window; what had been mere background music had now transformed housework into a cinematic moment.

There's something hypnotic in her rhythms - it's the audio equivalent of watching a gyroscope spin. Being mesmerized by her playing while she unloads a river of images makes for pretty heady stuff. But on the other tracks, the harp has such a pale + airy tone that the urgency of her playing tends to be lost in the symphonic arrangements. The elegant sweep of movements in "Only Skin" are flattened into sequential morasses of sound. To give a specific instance, the cascasding runs during the "rolling along, among the reeds among the rushes" segment have less of an impact because of the accompanying orchestral surge.

It's a shame; obviously a lot of thought/planning/work went into the orchestration. I don't think the entire burden can be laid on Van Dyke Parks; the arrangements were a collaborative effort (Newsom was a composition major for a while, so I imagine charts aren't a mystery to her). I'd love to hear the raw Albini masters, though, prior to the orchestral overdubs.

All that said, it's still head and shoulders above anything else I've heard this year.

Interesting, though. I think the orchestral arrangements *add* quite a lot to the songs, they change their nature. Not surprisingly, "Sawdust & Diamonds" is the only track that hasn't made much of an impression on me. Something like "Only Skin," on the other hand, is absolutely fascinating.

I can see how someone could say that the arrangements are nice, but it's too much of the same type of texture or vibe or sound for the whole record. It's almost *too consistent*. But I guess it's supposed to be an American song cycle, ala Van Dyke Parks. Or something like that.

It's a bold record---a huge leap for Joanna---and many people will hate it. But there will be new more serious fans. I do think that the average Joe fan that latched on to her last album will be totally lost on this one.

But yeah, Rihm doesn't have one single approach like, say, Boulez or Carter. He's more of a impressionist or collage artist, like Schnittke (but without the humour). What I heard sounded really dull, but I'll give "Jagden und Formen" a try. Any suggestions?

By Joseph Stevenson: "He tends to follow the 12-tone system as used by Anton Webern, Luigi Nono, the later composers William Killmayer and Helmuth Lachenmann, as well as being influenced by the music of Stockhausen and Morton Feldman." Jan Swafford says something similar.

Hmm. So what I heard a long time ago WAS twelve-tone, though, of course, not in the sense of strictly serial music like Webern or Boulez.

So, yeah. Wolfgang Rihm is a bit academic. He was a student of Stockhausen so... obviously some influence there. I'm not really into him personally (now that I'm re-listening to some of his works) and I haven't heard any of his non-twelve tone music.. if there *is* any.

I'm not saying Vespertine doesn't have more than a couple of slack, draggy moments (Undo, Harm Of Will) but right through there's a clear & direct emotional signal, even the soppy bits. With Joanna it's very often just a chore to hear it through all the games and the hint of incredulity/ridiculousness in her narratives.

That said, I'm not giving up on this (or at least not deleting) yet, my first playthrough was real cynicism busting stuff, and far easier & efficient than I'd anticipated, the songs do have momentum but everything since has been a right old slog.

That's exactly how the strings on Vespertine sound to me. Oh, well.

Probably not, but it is the best-selling record in Drag City history, apparently.

Ditto. In fact, I generally don't care for lyrics, but I like how she's overtly poetic without coming off as self-consciously clever. It's almost e. e. cummings-like, at moments.

The strings... man, it all comes across so piped after a while, less cinematic than just blandly romantic, the comment about the recording process upthread could well be the most OTM comment in this thread.

And hmmm "without coming off as self-consciously clever" Oh god, I wish that were true because I'm just finding it slightly amusing, but not actually very entertaining, or all that intellectually stimulating and certainly not a whole lot of fun.

Newsom's a harpy. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Correction. *Pretentious* baby talk.

It's not that I have a low attention span it's just that I begin to stop caring after too long. Monkey and Bear makes me wince too, despite having some of the most engaging and vivid language on here late in that track, overall I find it kind of embarrasing, but then I'm not one for prog much tbh.

If there's an ongoing story running through the whole record I haven't quite worked it out so far though.

http://www.fromamouth.com/milkymoon/lyrics.htm

does this mean what i think it does?

CRITIC/SCHOLAR? More like a HYPE MACHINE.

Actually, Tim, we did once meet at La Mesa. Granted, I don't "know" you, but the consensus was that your sexist cracks and "wigga" jokes didn't exactly endure you to anyone.

*of course academics/freelancers is only a job description, it doesn't say anything about the quality of the music that has been written.

At least we get to listen to the finished product and decide it's tough going. Must have been a buggr to transcribe!

But, yeah if rubbing in your "superior" knowledge on the subject in a cocky way (and completely missing my point in the process) makes you feel any better about yourself, go ahead.

Album of the Decade

-- Edward III (ehonaue...) (webmail), September 9th, 2006 5:35 PM. (edward iii)(link)

I'm not so sure...

In order of preference:

1) Only Skin ("though we felt the spray of the waves / we decided to stay till the tide rose too far")
2) Cosmia
3) Emily
4) Monkey & Bear
...
5) Sawdust & Diamonds

Yeah, I always skip S&D.

10-04 Toronto, Ontario - Mod Club
10-05 Montreal, Quebec - Ukranian Federation
10-06 Bennington, VT - Bennington College
10-07 Brooklyn, NY - Barge Music (New Yorker Festival)
10-08 Storrs, CT - Von Der Mehden Auditorium

11-08 Chicago, IL - Logan Square Auditorium
11-10 Cleveland, OH - Beachland Ballroom
11-11 Logan Square Auditorium - Chicago, IL
11-13 New York, NY - Webster Hall (early & late shows)
11-14 Somerville, MA - Somerville Theatre
11-16 Philadelphia, PA - First Unitarian Church
11-17 Washington DC - Black Cat
11-18 Greensboro, NC - Gail Brower Huggins Perf. Center
12-03 Portland, OR - Aladdin Theater

I'm going to the release date gig! The Somerville's a converted 1914 movie theatre, supposed to have great acoustics. Very jazzed.

FAUX avant-garde music judged self-indulgent in mainstream publication film at 11

Ithangyew.

If you don't like it, that's fine - I didn't get the memo that says everybody has to like Joanna Newsom, and I'm assuming you didn't either. But applying "meandering" to Ys, the reviewer might as well have said "too many notes" or "I couldn't be arsed to pay attention."

Call it whatever you want, uncommercial, complex, challenging, avant-garde, faux-fairy-wrangling, indie-fuX0r-suX0r-shitbath. But it's not the product of a lack of focus or discipline, and it's not an album that's easily appreciated after a few cursory listens.

In 1994, the RZA was avant-garde - in my book it's got fuckall to do with snobbery and everything to do with innovation.

If you think this records is as easy to market as Britney Spears FINE.

If you think releasing a somewhat less instant & digestible (than her debut) song-suite where every track is around the 10 min+ mark, and is best heard whole is typical Top 40 behaviour...

If you think her voice is in any way "average" and an easy pitch to new listeners...

What is your problem with calling this somewhat "uncommercial"?

avant-garde is a catch-all term for people who are doing shit nobody else is doing. This, ok, I'm fine with I suppose. I'm not a semantics nazi. I just don't want her to get a snobby audience, which is the danger when slapping that term onto her stuff.

Because it's not, by definition. Also, it's an ambiguous term that tells you nothing about the quality of the music, as describing music in terms of its marketability is quite beside the point.

Never said it was as easy to market as anything, but the moment something is put out to be sold, it's commercial (in whatever degree) by nature.

And Tim Ellison, it's quite influenced by Kora playing. You should listen to a CD called "Kora Melodies From The Republic of The Gambia, West Africa" by Alhaji Bai Konte.

Ah, it's just a blunderbuss of vitriol, feel free to ignore me. If reviewers are going to dismiss the album on grounds that it's meandering, it's a sign they haven't taken the time to digest it. Perhaps "avant-garde" was the wrong (loaded) term to use, but it takes a while to digest what she's doing here - that's just a fact, not snobbery.

There's also this anti-intellectual mode people slip into that gets me super-defensive - e.g. "I read Joyce's Ulysses, anybody could write that crap, the emperor's got no clothes, blah, blah." Okay, how about respecting the fact that people experience a depth in the work that you're not getting to? You don't have to appreciate it and you don't have to work to appreciate it, but some things are complex. There's plenty of music/art/literature I don't "get" but I don't blame the artist (or pretentious fans - yeah they're irritating but what does that have to do with anything?) for my own inability to get it. Momma had a name for people who trash what they can't understand - ignorant. Was she right, or just on some snobbery trip? (P.S. this has nothing to do with you personally, I'm just on a roll now....)

Regardless of all that, I guess what I'm saying is I'm not sure that Rolling Stone is the approriate bellweather of whether this album is any good or not.

There are odd time signatures that are peculiar to African Kora players, as she notes in this interview:

“I’ve spent time with figures transposed from the [African] Kora, where the right hand plays a four beat and the left plays a three, and in between where the two meters cross there is a really strange disorientation and disjunction that immediately upon hearing
I wanted to experiment more with...four against seven, four against nine, just playing with different spots rhythmically.”

Her downplaying it is a bit like The Rolling Stones downplaying the influence of the blues. But I understand her point, she has synthesized a bunch of different traditions and stressing the African influence is not completely accurate. She's not doing world music, aping some other culture's genre. But when you listen to "Bridges and Balloons" and then listen to something like Toumani Diabaté's New Ancient Strings, the affinity is profound.

The strings drown everything to mundanity.

Yeah, but I've come to terms with them over time. Still would love to hear the Albini solo masters, though.

i don't know what i think of this LP now. i think i overpraised it initially.

(not sure if you're responding to me when you say "she's not aping african music" - if you are, I must not have made myself very clear since we agree completely)

At some point when I have a little time I'd like to comment further on this (and on the "small death" lyric). Duty calls, though.

http://www.thewire.co.uk/current/images/273cover.jpg

elsewhere on ILM Marcello calls this "bilge"....

I listened to this right through again the other day, It captivates me wonderfully for the first couple of tracks, all of it, the music, the lyricism, the play of the language & her rhythms but soon... fatigue sets in and it's just not as surprising afterwards. Still very nice, but not rapturous, and lacking a true emotional punch for me. I still don't like this as much as the first album really.

And am I the only person who thinks it sounds basically the same all the way through and that's not really a good thing?

Quite honestly I want her to drop the harp for a while (I find myself feeling her overall sound to be quite tart & unpleasant a lot of the time, more so than her vocals even, and I've already said I'm not amazed by the treacly strings here), and travel somewhere OUT of this pastoral prettiness zone next time... maybe new york? somewhere Urban? THAT would seem more "challenging" to me than this, maybe next album. I HOPE she puts what she's learned/extended upon here to more interesting uses in the future (maybe interspersed with shorter "normal" songs?), I just feel like she's playing up to her audience too much here. The formalities of this record look risky but I don't think the final creative product is, at least not quite as much as people are saying. It's lovely, idillyic and escapist sure, but it's also quite a lot of froth.

Nevertheless I'm glad she's made this record. It at least shows the doubters she's didn't just get lucky first time round. It's accomplished, it's dense and open, flows very naturally BUT I'm yet to be convinced it actually has depth and isn't merely a bit too clever for it's own good. Overrated? absolutely! but by no means worthless. I expect the real "backlash" will come sometime after the inevitable Pitchfork 9.9 (if they can bear to give anything a higher rating than The Hold Steady this year).

also not sure why being able to take it at one sitting is a big issue. I suppose this is your listening preference. I tend to listen to a track of this at a time.

xp

I still find this an admirable, ambitious record, but also a flawed and problematic one. I doubt anyone else is going to nail how I feel about this one closer than the Stylus review. Which gives it a good grade, but reads as similarly conflicted w/r/t to my own feelings about Ys, even if they don't quite stretch to "enchantment".

I've only listened to it once so far, but it did sort of remind me of the Phil Ochs song 'Crucifixion' in places. Obviously that's the Van Dyke Parks link in full effect.

xp

and on the "bad thing" remark, yesterday i had someone add the 'e'
and try to insult her by saying she sounds like lisa simpson--yeah, why IS that bad?

ts for misspellings designed to infuriate sub-editors: joanna newsome v missy elliot

(the missy misspelling is far out in front because it has been going on for a DECADE now and shows no sign of slowing down EVEN THOUGH SHE SPELLS HER NAME CORRECTLY ON ALL HER SLEEVES)

i really really want to hear ys but i am not convinced that i'll like it and so am unwilling to spend money on it

No one who's heard it here has spent any money on it, it's not out yet!

Dude, what kind of stick is stuck in your ass? Of COURSE people are qualified to critique her music without spelling her name correctly! What the hell does the spelling of her name have to do with her music? Moreover, my critique offered NO OPINION WHATSOEVER about whether her music was good or bad--I just said she sounded like Miss Kitty. And she does. That is all.

Touchy-ass fanboys. Sheesh.

Oh, I had no idea about that. I've totally been reading it as 'wise' - thought it might have been some sort of concept album about Ernie.

yep

beep. I hit the wrong button.

(>>>>"not a defensive remark")

My apologies, son.

Of COURSE people are qualified to critique her music without spelling her name correctly! What the hell does the spelling of her name have to do with her music?

Wellll
--and this observation is far removed your own neutral remark--
there does seem to be an arguable correlation between the banal critiques of her vocal doses and that spare e.

Well...searching through the thread, it looks like Edward said something about that:
"The elegant sweep of movements in "Only Skin" are flattened into sequential morasses of sound. To give a specific instance, the cascasding runs during the "rolling along, among the reeds among the rushes" segment have less of an impact because of the accompanying orchestral surge."

The 16 minutes is something nice to hear when you're idle,
but I would much rather repeat the live piano version because it dives right into that wonderful rhythm.

Haven't found the leaked version (HOW THE HELL aka yr torrent networks is garbage, son), so I'm just gonna pony the fuck up and buy it next week.

i agree with mark

fantastic though isn't it? i mean head-fuckingly fantastic.

It's not that I don't get it, I GET IT
I just don't think it's very good

I swear, if she wasn't so hot, all these male rock critics wouldn't be gushing over her so much. I'm convinced they are (many of them) in love with her whole persona/image--not so much the music

People make music this amitious all the time, and much of it is worlds better, but it often comes from older trio of aging men, or a 35 year old finnish woman who's semi fat, and nobody cares...

Or they call it pretentious. It's just so ridiculous the unilateral praise for this

When I heard it back in august I thought for sure some critics would call it out for what it is, yet it seems everyone is drinking from the same fairy pool

Long Suites, VDP and Smog peppered with harp and meandering vocals that if read without music, read like a college freshman poetry jam, don't equate = stop the world greatness.

It's just as though everyone is thinking "wow, well its' so LONG and who does that? and well, she's so young and her lyrics are so, wow! She sings about skipping stones in wading pools! and Come dance with me and monkeys and bears", and then those that think it's ridiculous train of thought garbage are dismissed as not "getting it"

I respect her intentions, but I'm more infuriated with the response

like boys just being like "I didn't know it could get this good!!"

Dude: they're lyrics. They're supposed to go with the music. Thus, you don't get to judge them as exterior to the music.

and then those that think it's ridiculous train of thought garbage are dismissed as not "getting it"

Dismissing it as "train of thought garbage" is exactly missing the point because her lyrics aren't "train of thought" or "stream of consciousness" which is what you mean i guess.

I swear, if she wasn't so hot, all these male rock critics wouldn't be gushing over her so much. I'm convinced they are (many of them) in love with her whole persona/image--not so much the music

this isn't an exclusively male critic thing, either. Jessica Hopper (among others) loves the shit out of this album.

who's that?
anyhow--I stand by what I said.

People are swooning over something I see as rather insincere, and sort of like an indie rock sham

but insincere in what way? like, she doesn't believe what she's singing about? or like, she doesn't think what she's writing is actually very good? and not to be like a total crit douche but: since when is sincerity a mark of quality?

This is the stupid comment yet on this thread.

Nevermind.

Hi Dom.

Yes, sincerity doesn't mean good or bad generally speaking. But in the case of something like this that everyone claims to be so heartfelt and real and wonderful and ground breaking and brave and bold, I just don't see that. It's a hollow shell of great artists spinning a very pretty but forgettable web around someone who knows how to sell herself and her whole wolf pelt hat freak folk wearing persona quite well.

other than the length of the songs and the orchestral arrangement I don't know what's different about this record than her last one or her earlier work. you're obviously unfamiliar with her so coming to her stuff at this point and making this declaration is more a statement on your ignorance than anything else.

you may not like my opinion, but my opinion doesn't make me ignorant you idiot

please...
i love how easily people dismiss other people's counter hive opinions
just b/c I"m not marching to the joanna piper, doesn't mean I believe rape=authenticy

I really don't understand your comments about her sincerity or authenticity. You seem to think that she's just marketing an image (not sure what's wrong with that), but that any of the real musical work is being done by other people. Everything I've seen about the making of Ys indicates that she's heavily involved with the entire creative process to the point of obsession.

I'm not the type of person to get upset about this type of stuff, but I feel like a lot of the comments on here are getting really ugly and sexist. The whole idea that she is just a cute face and depends on "real artists" to hold her hand and do the real work strikes me as absurd and insulting.

I think zippezappy is arguing that people are lavishing newsom with praise because of these qualities. And that she the ambitiousness of the album, or the work that went into it, has influenced critics' opinions of its merits.

I'm not saying this is true, but it's not that rediculous of an idea. I think alot of us got excited when we heard about Albini and VDP's involvment.

For me, it just doesn't excite me as much as her first. I understand that it requires a great deal of attention and time. I guess, I just don't feel like giving this album that much time. I guess her writing and vocals are similar to the first. But the arrangements and strings irritate me at times and take away from the simplistic qualities I liked about ms. newsom. I am not wording this well, but the strings seem to be overbearing at various parts throughout many of the songs, where they could stand to be a little more subtle.

but this thread makes me want to hear it.

i hope it's really fanciful.

I'm also waiting to hear about all these great artists making music that is far superior, but are being ingnored because they aren't pretty....

...And we have a tie

This thread is going downhill fast... but I sympathise with people finding it all a bit hollow and contrived, in a way that frequently actually repels an emotional connection.

Well for me anyway. Whether she's "sincere" or not I don't know, I wish I could finally understand why I just-about like this, and even then with doubts, whereas other people are finding it utterly rapturous & I assume, deeply satisfying.

Maybe it's because so little of her poetry strikes me as coming from the sub-conscious, it makes too much literal/poetic sense when it's understood, it reminds me of rap that I don't like, when there's piles upon piles of lyrical puzzles to untangle but not much blissful surrender. Which is unfair, as there are many moments of surrender here, but as a whole, the sheer concentration -of- it, and the concentration it feels like it needs to be absorbed is wearying. I tried letting this just wash over me too but that came out even less rewarding :(

I still have the horrible feeling this is going to click eventually and I'll have to eat my words... but I still wish the 5 parts didn't all sound so similar overall, without that differentiation, this record feels more like a half-remembered dream with an uncertain beginning and end, and not enough of a "journey" for me.

I definitely see how her music can sound like it was labored over to an excessive degree. When an artist appears to be trying too hard, it becomes a big turn-off. In that sense, I understand a lot of the criticism here.

The part I don't get is the notion that she is pulling a fast one on her audience or playing some kind of confidence trick. That seems to be the implication of a lot of comments on this thread, and I find it kind of mystifying.

Why are so many people convinced that there is a big disconnect (for good or ill) between her persona and her personality?

Is it so hard to believe that she is, in fact, that person?

I mean think about how long she sings about "darling dance with me" over and over and over and over again for a good 3 minutes at the end of "bear and monkey"

Sure, get lost in it. Feel the magic. It's like a sandra bullock romantic comedy, (but sandra REALLY IS THAT CUTE IN REAL LIFE), you either get lost in it or you don't.

Obviously I don't and I guess the other major issue I'm taking here (and I'm more irritated by the fans/critics then the actual album) is that NOBODY else seems to be speaking up here. Is it required that everyone think what she's doing is fucking hands down 10/10 across the board album of the year.

I know now people are going to chime in with a one sentence "I don't love it" but seriously, I just can't believe so many people buy it.

I'm quickly turning into the resident joanna hater and that wasn't my intention. I admire her ambition. I think the record is FINE. It is what it is, but I can't stomach all these giddy male rock critics talking about how for some reason HER lyrics about skipping stones are so great and why random other artists singing equally as ridiculous (IMO ) lyrics , get the full brush over or deemed as "trite" and "cutesy"

why her?

What makes you think that she sees herself this way? I have no way of knowing for sure, but I would guess that she sees herself as a musician. I've never seen her say anything that would indicate otherwise.

I just can't believe so many people buy it

This is what confuses me - why does liking this album = "buying" it? If I enjoy listening to her am I suspending my disbelief? Disbelief of what?

I can't stomach all these giddy male rock critics talking about how for some reason HER lyrics about skipping stones are so great and why random other artists singing equally as ridiculous (IMO ) lyrics , get the full brush over or deemed as "trite" and "cutesy"

I understand disagreeing with the critics, but why be angry at them? Why even care about them?

THE GREEEEEED

(same pitchfork reviewer, (nearly) same score, same 'epic' expansion upon promising first disc, same hype)

I can't see this being better than BB, myself, but I'll need to give it a listen.

This is...as good.

Plus VDP & Steve Albini & Jim O'Rourke.

Like whoa.

Ys is a good album, though

(same pitchfork reviewer, (nearly) same score, same 'epic' expansion upon promising first disc, same hype)

I jumped in w/my "as good as" cause I know teh Jagger digs it lots, and then we miscommunicated shit all to hell.

A couple years ago, they were getting the same hype.

They do projects that seem either ambitious or crazy.

The lyrics are overly verbose or just plain long.

so i was hoping to get this for my 8-year old cousin who is a concert harpist... (no shit)... is there a lot of smog dick or it is bad mixed metaphor?

will she see through it? i was gonna make her a copy of the last record minus the song with the "whores" on it... cause i'm not sure if her folks would dig that...

any chance JN will be on a NOW! kids comp in the near future?
m.

Huh? Joanna Newsom? Sandra fucking Bullock? "CUTE IN REAL LIFE"? Is this some exercise in automatic writing?

I think YS sounds like a treat, actually.

This is the case with 90% of today's most critically praised indie music.

Because Newsom has a much stronger grasp of meter than most lyricists, not to mention most poets. With great consistency she can roll off stanzas like "and the articulation / in our elbows and knees / makes us buckle as we couple / in endless increase" or "though our bones they may break / and our souls separate
/ why the long face? / and though our bodies recoil / from the grip of the soil / why the long face?" Pick any set of words (buckle / couple, they-may-break / sep-a-rate) and you can see the active engagement with the rhythmic possibilities of words - not to mention themes like how a lover's embrace can forestall our fear of death. Freshman poetry? Obviously you haven't attended enough freshman poetry workshops - many seasoned poets would give an arm for Newsom's facility with rhyme and meter.

This is a lot harder then it looks, and you're coming off like a guy watching an Olympic skating routine and going "Pshaw, I could do that shit!" Anyone who claims Newsom isn't doing serious work in her lyrics either isn't paying attention or is getting hung up on surface details like skipping stones and fables about monkeys and bears. And since you've owned up to posting here primarily to bait people who like Joanna Newsom, I'll close by saying this;

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/screwtroll.jpg

a friend of mine made this comparison the other day, and I actually think it's spot on. That and Sufjan Stevens, at least insofar as they're good examples of overreaching, overstuffed, absurdly elaborate indie records that have proved to be really divisive. I prefer JN to both of them (and personally find Sufjan repulsive), but then again, there seems to be plenty of venom for Ys here and I'm having a hard time drawing a good argument together for IT over Sufjan or Blueberry Boat. though I think it's obvious that Ys is a more anal and sonically precise record, which, for me, makes its frillery a little more vivid & validated.

I agree that there is a pattern here. First, there is the quirky and promising debut that wows many and shows evidence of a new talent, though some listeners still aren't convinced. Then, there is the more assured, "ambitious", and polished follow-up, which wins over most of the doubters - yet also disappoints many of the original true believers, who miss the odd charm and spontaneous thrill of the debut.

-- mike powell (revelator...), November 14th, 2006.

I'd say that Newsom's contribution, being the centerpiece, is precise but I've always felt Van Dyke Parks and all of the mixing/production techniques zip around like giddy children who get to play at the rich kid's house.

Then again, I prefer it to Sufjan because Parks' arrangements are flawed. Sufjan is the one who sounds a little too precise for me: he writes songs in 11/8 time sig. just for shits and giggles.

fine, but still a world away from plebe Stevens's ragtag Salvation Army orchestra schtick

There's a thread like this every week. Pretty sad.

love it

'sall I'm sayin.

That being said, more than anything I think this album reinforces how tempting it is to drink the Kool-Aid when its so fucking tasty on first sip and its so fucking hot outside.

i just wish you could *dance* to some of it.

it sounds awesome on vinyl, fo' sure.

I realized that I dissed Sufjan on a different thread for the same things against which I've been defending Joanna. Call me a hypocrite, but I stand by my opinions :P

"Emily" = childhood and family life
"Monkey & Bear" = perhaps about her time spent playing keyboards in The Pleased?
"Sawdust & Diamonds"/"Only Skin"/"Cosmia" = charting of a love affair, in a triptych of consummation/domesticity/separation

The final three songs are strongly tied together, but linking in the first two is a bit of a stretch. I'll continue to disagree with comments like It's lovely, idillyic and escapist. People get hung up on the imagery she uses (nature, animals, fantasy creatures), but the over-arching theme of the recent material is death - or, more specifically, mortality - and what it means in the face of love. The album is shot through with death, coupling, rebirth, sorrow, fear, fever, rapture. Tim Ellison's comment that the lyrics are "human" is most OTM.

I've written some close readings of Newsom's lyrics, but this isn't really the forum for that - but I can provide an interpretation of "Emily". It's a meditation on her relationship with her sister, her family, and her growing fame, but at its core is the theme of mortality.

The first section details bucolic scenes and memories of shared moments with her sister. Emily has an interest in astronomy, and she teaches Joanna the names of stars. Joanna writes them in her journal, sets them to song. The sisters both have their particular ways of ordering the universe - one through science, the other through the arts - and this concept of "ordering the universe" becomes key as the song progresses.

At the point of "You came and lay a cold compress against the mess I'm in" the song turns to a darker tone; "The mail is late and the great estates are not lit from within." In times of trouble and emotional turmoil ("there are worries where I've been") Joanna turns to her sister, the "midwife" to "help me find my way back in." "Come on home," she intones repeatedly, a plea for both herself and for Emily to return to the sacred place they share.

If you fondly remember a moment when a parent pointed out constellations to you, that's what's going on in "Pa pointed out to me / for the hundreth time tonight / the way the ladle leads / to a dirt red bullet of light" (her father is tracing the path to the red star Arcturus from the handle of the Big Dipper). "Joy," Newsom remarks; but she isn't content to leave us with a nostalgic afterglow. She quickly follows on with, "landlocked in bodies that don't keep / dumbstruck with the sweetness of being, till we don't be." She can't see the beauty in the world without being reminded that we will cease to exist. Even the earlier image of skipping stones is undercut by the ominous "they were lost and slipped under forever."

That is the tension running through the song, through almost all of Ys. Constellations don't exist - they're figments, a byproduct of the human need to impose form and order on the chaos of nature. We need constructions to assuage anxiety, to temper our fear of the void - Family, Art, Science - and this puts Joanna's vision of nature closer to Herzog's Grizzly Man than to Gentle Ben.

She follows this with the song's chorus, which is not just a bunch of nice-sounding words thrown together, but a knotty metaphor:

the meteorite is a source of the light
and the meteor's just what we see
and the meteoroid is a stone that's devoid of the fire that propelled it to thee

and the meteorite's just what causes the light
and the meteor's how it's perceived
and the meteoroid's a bone thrown from the void that lies quiet in offering to thee

A small science lesson is in order: A meteoroid is an object in space. A meteor is a trail of glowing vapor caused by a meteoroid entering Earth's atmosphere. A meteorite is a meteoroid that's landed on Earth. It's complex, but essentially Joanna's saying, "Look, I'm a meteorite, I'm just an unglamorous rock. I'm causing a great blaze, a meteor, and everyone's paying attention to that. But no one is seeing where I came from, my family, my sister, my father, they are the unseen forces that brought me here to you." Joanna is a "star", but she honors the grounding of her family. And that is a fucking rich, complex metaphor, so let's leave out the freshman poetry comments, eh?

You can listen to "Emily" (and the rest of Ys for that matter) and hear a happy tale of skipping stones and tra-la-la. And sure, you can enjoy the album without picking apart every metaphor and image - I'm not going to deny anyone the sensuous surface pleasures of the album. But don't say it's all frilly and frothy unless you're willing to come to terms with the depth, with the darker shades, with the layers of meaning that are available; that is, if you really want to pay attention instead of hearing what your fantasy of Joanna-as-ren-fest-tree-fairie would produce. People who trash her lyrics are only exposing the limits of their imagination, not hers.

I must not only be a souless , non creative wanker, but also ignorant.

maybe I should go back to school and study Joanna's genius poetry

I actually agree with your comment above about Ys being too serious. The material could use a little dose of wit. There are plenty of archly humorous lines on The Milk-Eyed Mender ("I killed my dinner with karate", "like a slow low-flying turkey / like a texan drying jerky"), while Ys is unfailingly earnest. Ah well, maybe next time.

Joanna Newsom: thorny, precise
Fiery Furnaces: thorny, unprecise
Sufjan Stevens: unthorny, precise

?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/bigger20band20photo.jpg
L-R: Danny Cantrell, Ryan Francesconi, Kevin Barker, some harpist, Katie Hardin, Neal Morgan

Set List

solo
"Bridge and Balloons"
"The Book of Right On"
"Ca' the Yowes" (trad scottish folksong - a real treat)

w/ band
all of Ys, in order

solo encore
"Sadie"
"Peach Plum Pear"

Random observations: Her old songs aren't performed with the same oomph - the pre-band songs seemed like stretching/warmup to tackle Ys, and the post-band encore seemed like audience appeasement. The defiance has been sapped from "this is not my tune / but it's mine to use," and the hideous crackle of "bless those who've sickened below" has been tempered by her newfound tunefulness. They're still great songs and I'll gladly listen to them any time she deigns to play them - but they seem like trifles beside Ys's towers of song.

I don't prefer Ys as an album to The Milk Eyed Mender, but under the enforced focus of a live performance, the extended pieces overpower their little siblings. I agree with you, Mark, and a couple others who've posted here; the album's a bit of a chore to listen to. But live, catch her if you can. The five piece band didn't drown her out, in fact, they rarely played all at once. Mostly it was Cantrell's accordion and Francesconi's bouzouki and the rest was accents for certain passages. Cantrell also played the saw during "Cosmia", and I swear that was a high point of the night. It sounded like an organic theremin, just beautiful.

Here are the rest of her tour dates.

Wed 11/15 NEW HAVEN, CT - Toad's Place (I think this one was taped and might start making the rounds)
Thu 11/16 PHILADELPHIA, PA - Sanctuary
Fri 11/17 WASHINGTON, DC - The Black Cat
Sat 11/18 GREENSBORO, NC - Gail Brower Huggins Theater
Sun 11/19 ATLANTA, GA - Variety Playhouse
Mon 11/20 NASHVILLE, TN - Mercy Lounge
Tue 11/21 KNOXVILLE, TN - Blue Cats
Wed 11/22 ASHEVILLE, NC - The Diana Wortham Theater
Fri 11/24 LOUISVILLE, KY - Headliners
Sat 11/25 BIRMINGHAM, AL - Bottle Tree
Wed 11/29 MALIBU, CA - Malibu Performing Arts
Thu 11/30 LOS ANGELES, CA - El Rey Theater
Fri 12/1 SANTA CRUZ, CA - Rio Theatre
Sat 12/2 EUGENE, OR - Indigo District
Sun 12/3 PORTLAND, OR - Aladdin Theater
Mon 12/4 SEATTLE, WA - The Showbox
Tue 12/5 VANCOUVER, BC - St. Andrews Wisley Church
Fri 12/8 MINNEAPOLIS, MN - 400 Bar
Sat 12/9 MADISON, WI - Club 770
Mon 12/11 NORMAN, OK - Meacham Theater
Tue 12/12 HOUSTIN, TX - Orange Show
Wed 12/13 AUSTIN, TX - The Parish
Thu 12/14 MARFA, TX - The Ballroom
Fri 12/15 ALBUQUERQUE, NM - Launch Pad
Tue 12/19 SAN FRANCISCO, CA - Great American Music Hall
Wed 12/20 SAN FRANCISCO, CA - Great American Music Hall

her singing is relentless
her lyrics too much! It's not even the LENGTH of the song per se, it's then she wont stop singing and give it a break...EVER

I just listened to it again, to further try and understand why everyone gets so easily starry eyeed about it. and on monkey and bear, you are hard pressed to find more than 5 seconds of non vocal moments.

Good stuff

easily the most original, and best, record of the year, and of many other years, too. luckily i have been absent from ilm for some time so i can revel in this without paying no mind to the harpplayahataz. music is back indeed.

hahahaha

As for mood, there's at least two light (if not comedic) moments (in Emily and, I think Only Skin) where she's suddenly playing with animatronic puppets in some Disney swamp.

Maybe the third record will be the actual genius one she's clearly (potentially) capable of.

solo encore
"Sadie"
"Peach Plum Pear"

I think that was pretty much the set list at the early show at Webster Hall (NYC) that I saw, except that she switched "Sadie" to the first solo section, and "Book of Right On" to the solo encore, and played "Clam Crab Cockle Cowrie" instead of "Peach Plum Pear" for the last encore. I think I like the string arrangements on the album better than the accompaniment that was played by the touring band, but it was still a very good show.

-- Naive Teen Idol

yeah, me too. I find it just impossible to properly articulate why & where this record (and her last partly, though that was much easier to just treat as 'fun') fails for me.

It is definitely more than "pretty good" by any measure, yet at the same time I'm nowhere within 50 miles of "love" for it. And yeah, perhaps I am just not that impressed by the lyrics, at least not like Beefheart impressed or anything. They make for pretty good poetry yes, but... so what? I'm not sure they make for better music than plain old regular unfussy lyrics... they certainly take an intolerable time longer to effectively pierce my heart.

brr you are so OTM it hurts.

ps. can someone teach me how to quote another post and make it italicized ?

I'm clearly an idiot both in my understanding and study of joanna's prose/poetry AND posting on bulletin boards

:\

apple command something?

http://www.pageresource.com/html/textags.htm

I said Thank you

O_o

I do have considerably more to say about all of this, but I'm going to save it for the end-of-year CoM round-up.

Man, the one thing that just hits you in the face about her is that she is just absolutely FLAWLESS (well, as far as not hitting ONE wrong note and remembering all those changes and lyrics....).

But why does she have to play the entire album in order? It's tiring to stand and listen to, I'm sure it's tiring to actually play. Why not mix in some of the "short" songs?

jesus god best phrase ever

I'd kind of liked JN's stuff, and many tracks off of Milk Eyed Mender had touched me but not enough to endure repeated listenings. But I can kind of understand where Jim "Music Is Back" O'Rourke is coming from here. It's not necessarily meant as a pretentious statement, more the essence of musicianship and composition. Here is someone who might have had her shot in the dark during the Freakfolk boom of 2004 and disappeared along with many other one-timers.
But as Edward III says, I'd like to echo the thought of her being quite a bit more than a fad. JN is way way above what Devendra and his cohorts are doing this (I say this as an advocate of Banhart). This is a proper album. It's a work of art which has obviously taken an extreme amount of blood, sweat and tears, so-to-speak, and I think this is what O'Rourke is trying to pont out. This isn't any old tossed off indie here-today-gone-tomorrow rubbish, it is totally unique in it's aspect and I haven't felt so intrigued and bewildered yet tempted to listen again and again by a new release since Autechre's "Confield".
Weird comparison? Okay, but someone upthread said they felt almost as if the music was above them -- as if they wished it was a bit more down to earth. I have to call bullshit on this to be fair. If it was songs about washing your hair or getting down on the dancefloor, it would be someone else, not Joanna Newsom and you have to be ready and willing to open up to her fairy tale world if you're going to enjoy it. Banging on about the music being ungenuine is ridiculous too. You can either sing about kitchen sinks or you can be a method actor or a story teller. In this case, it's the latter two. If you don't like it then go back to your Smiths albums and stop complaining.
This is a wonderful, intricate, storybook of an album and I haven't quite felt this drawn and willingly happy to listen to certain tracks again and again in quite some time. Especially in this age when music consumption often means that I have little time for releases that I really should give more time for.
To be honest, it's still over my head - I still don't know what the beef is with the monkey and the bear, despite it being my favourite track (mostly cos of VDP's excellent string arrangements), but fuck it - that's not what it's meant to be about. This is defo a big grower.

(?!?!)

the album is OK, but it's the reaction to it that drives me bats

(1) You'll either love it or hate it.
(2) It's impossible to "get" unless you spend a lot of time with it.
(3) There's something to "get" at all.
(4) People who don't like it aren't listening close enough.
(5) Newsom is a flake.
(6) Newsome is a fake.
(7) Newsom is a genius.
(8) Because a lot of people who like the album have funny haircuts and tight t-shirts, Newsom must be catering to them.

but please don't mention joni mitchell or mary margaret o'hara (that was on a blog somewhere). those two make/made vital, emotive, inspiring music whereas newsom sounds dry, precocious, suffocating, tiring, lifeless etc. there are no surprises. the more i listen to it, the clearer it becomes. there are bits of tunes there, that's right but the whole thing just doesn't hold together. flawless might be actually quite to the the point but it is the kind of perfection with no breath in it.

btw her speaking voice in the video is different. at least an octave lower then when she sings. and she doesn't come over precious and pretentious at all in the interview bits. she has got something about her. maybe she makes that kind of over the top music because of her own insecurity? in any case it is just not my thing as i already said upthread.

Stay with me for awhile
That's an awfully real gun
I know life will lay you down
As the lightning has lately done

Failing this, failing this,
Follow me, my sweetest friend
To see what you anointed in pointing your gun there

Lay it down! Nice and slow!
There is nowhere to go, save up
Up where the light, undiluted, is weaving in a drunk dream
At the sight of my baby, out back:
Back on the patio watching the bats bring night in
- while, elsewhere, estuaries of wax-white
Wend, endlessly, towards seashores unmapped

Speaking of freshman poetry class...

I wrote this about 400 posts ago, and I think it's been borne out. Some are going to be instantly turned off when they hear something like, "estuaries of wax-white wend".

ihttp://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b280/dotcomstock/2DSC01477.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y176/edwardiii/baby_attacks.jpg

Any ideas as to what these four "big things" were? Who's Cosmia (whom she dedicates the album to)?

THE PHALLUS?!

Anyway, I do appreciate the discourse. Maybe I'll love it, maybe I'll hate it. I loved Blueberry Boat at first, but then it became annoying later on. I really don't think I "got" the brilliance of The Drift, but I'll keep working on it.

Toodles.

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2006/12/18/pitchork-fall-on-newsom-sword/

RS upbraiding Pitchfork by saying "This list could've been edgy and subversive if it weren't for Newsom...."

The mind boggles.

What a bloody fuck up.

RS probably expressing themselves badly but I have sympathy for the haters. :|

i quite like it. that's all so far.

Excuse me....... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MUTHA****IN' ROFLMAO HAHAHAHAHAHA *deep breath* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL LOL LOL HAHAHAHA..... (OK, you get it).

Seriously. Rolling Stone must be astonishingly stupid to think that they have the necessary credibility to bash JN anywhere. Their cred / mojo / steez / whatever you want to call it left them a *LONG* time ago. Now, all they are is a bunch of has-been corporate whores. (Any RS writers on ILM are exempted, because ILM has sufficient cred to override RS's lack thereof).

I don't mind people bashing JN, as long as they aren't people whose magazine's questionable taste in music is legendary.

Perhaps.

Also, live-in-studio EP coming soon, presumably featuring the great new song she's been playing.

Anyway, yes. EP. April. That's about it.

How many people hated Newsom's voice the first time they heard it, and grew to like/love/tolerate it, and how long did it take? I remember liking it a lot from the start, but the first time I heard it I was pretty stoned and it sounded like a ghost or something.

so it took me almost a year apparently to fall for this album but...yeah.

NO STRONGO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

yesssss give in.

ha.

For a guy who self-identifies as a feminist, I willfully ignore this stuff to a crazy degree.

Don't be such a girl.

i only just got this. for ages i held off, because long songs (particularly for this genre) can scare the hell out of me. but there really is something peculiarly intriguing about this record. there's enough variety and shifts throughout the songs for me not to exercise any desire to turn the thing off. and the softer moments, the really quiet sections, are really quite enchanting.

haha, just realised how heavily accented some of the vocals are

i could kick myself til i was lame for missing the tour.

'cosmia', the closer, is the true highlight. a beautiful song. i can almost appreciate the way she sings the word 'can'.

...but can't for the life of me imitate the way she sings the word 'can'

I love, nay, cherish the album now but I had the same trepidation, I saw her play the suite in its entirety with just a harp before she cut the album and it was intriguing but extreeeemely exhausting so that along with the hype/backlash gave me every reason to beg off the album(which I did until a few months ago).

I have not listened to this since last November.

I might have to give it a try tonight.

it was not that good, was it?

Nope. I tried again too. Piece of shit.

album not that good (ruined by Van Dyke Parks as some suggest upthread), tour supporting it was one of the best things I have ever seen.

anything but a 'piece of shit'. over the top? perhaps. overly ambitious? sure. but competent, intriguing and enchanting nonetheless

I would go see her if she played Flying a Kite. What's with the lack of love for that one?

I bought this weeks ago. Honestly I had never heard a song of hers until a few weeks ago.

I haven't paid close attention to lyrics since I was a Rap fan in high school. When in college I discovered Sonic Youth and My Bloody Valentine, I stopped caring about lyrics. I'm 24.

Ys is lyric heavy and not as diverse musically as I'd like. However when I take the time to read some of the lyrics I'm kind of moved by some of the lines. Specifically, "Sawdust and Diamonds". I'm gonna have to make some time to really pay attention to what she's saying. Ys would definitely be the first "story" I've finished in a while.

As for her voice, I don't find it too unusual. Sometimes I think I'm listening to Bjork though [& I don't really have a problem with that].

!

i think she has a great voice, but sings a little too over-enthusiastically at times

dear god.
she's shown admirable restraint in keeping this under 3 discs of material I guess.

― bad hair day house (fandango), Tuesday, September 5, 2006

lol

Edward III unpacking the meteoroid bit upthread is one of my all-time ILX favorite posts.

does anyone still think the new album is better than this?

hell yes

but first one is still my favourite.

I don't.

dear god.
she's shown admirable restraint in keeping this under 3 discs of material I guess.

― bad hair day house (fandango), Tuesday, September 5, 2006

lol

― i know who the sockpuppet master of ilx is (velko), Sunday, February 21, 2010 4:25 AM

I think the new one is better, but I wish it contained more of the harp shredding on display in "Sawdust & Diamonds".

I went to this thing the other night where spontaneous songs kept breaking out and this one girl sang this 10 minute epic poem about a boy and she totally had Joanna-voice, I was so sure it was imitation-as-flattery, but afterward she was like "No, I've never heard of her." So I sent her this. It blew her mind.

oh maaan

ys is just totally fearless. i have a lot of admiration for JN because she just sounds so uninhibited and when i listen to this record i'm always reminded of other great songwriters and the work they did at their narrative peak, for instance bob dylan circa blood on the tracks.

the latest album is just too much for me to absorb, and it's frustrating that i'll probably never get round to appreciating more than just bits and pieces, because there's just too much of it.

I had a bit of an AW MAN moment last night when I realised that I'm older than Joanna Newsom was when Ys was released.

(I also saw her play last night and she was great and so was Roy Harper supporting, but I'll save my embarrassing effusiveness for elsewhere.)

(((d-_-b)))

the hills are groaning with excess, like a table ceaselessly being set

Yep. This album is still a masterpiece in its own little way, despite what came before and after it. Bring back Van Dyke Parks!

I haven't listened to Joanna for ages. The triple album lost me a bit...

That's because it was hopelessly dull. Go back to Ys, the 'meteorite' refrain on 'Emily' is heartbreaking.

can't really get with her other stuff, but Ys has gradually and steadily grown to become an all-timer for me.

She'd have been a shoe-in for the ILX pre-covers LULU -- the Lou Reed/Metallica album if she could limit herself to twelve minutes...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/98aa24920ad2605eaea23ba8f8cabef6/tumblr_mnzinlcOnG1qagxv6o4_400.jpg

uh

I love Joanna Newsom and I love that album cover, but that pic is just gruesome

too gross not to share. rip blogs.

sawdust & diamonds makes me weep like a little baby

10 years holy Christ.

i still think of this as a kind-of recent album.

i think this is the first ilx thread i ever read, wandered in trying to find the record on an mp3 blog

still my fave of hers, unbelievable album

"Sawdust & Diamonds" is the only song that makes me cry every time I hear it.

I was 21 years old when this came out and I hated it so much... it wasn’t her voice which I know it’s an acquired taste but I didn’t have any problems with it on Milk Eyed Mender, in fact it would’ve probably been one of my top 10 2014 albums if I had made a list back then.

But when Ys came out the track lenghts alone seemed terribly offputting and when I tried listening to it I realize I wasn’t prepared for what sounded like tunes for a Broadway play based on a children’s book. I’ve always had an aversion to histrionism in music and this seemed to have way too many things I hate.

Oh was I wrong... it still sounds like a soundtrack to an imaginary play to my ears and I don’t know when will I ever be in the mood and find the space and time to listen to it but this is way out there in its own universe. Sorry for being a hater before, this album was worth the hype and it’s a genuine product of love.

wow, eleven years.

album not that good (ruined by Van Dyke Parks as some suggest upthread), tour supporting it was one of the best things I have ever seen.

― sleeve, Wednesday, September 26, 2007 7:57 PM (ten years ago)

that show (with "small orchestra" 6-piece band) remains one of the best live shows I have ever seen, you could have heard a pin drop in the 400+ person venue during the extended end of "Cosmia"

where is she now I wonder? seems to have retired from music.

There’s many emotions in here but the main theme does seem to be her struggle to come to terms with mortality. The scope shifts from heartbreaking to enlightening often.

xp the divers tour was less than three years ago, i'm guessing she'll be back

Van Dyke Parks arrangements are a bit meh still but she’s on another level... imagine someone line say Nico Muhly in there..

I strongly doubt she's retired. She had a baby less than a year ago, not exactly surprising that she might take a little break. Also, there was a 5 year gap between the last 2 albums.

i love the arrangements, don't understand the dislike for them in this thread at all

It’s actually more the production than the arrangements... they sound very idk... skinny?

It's a great album, I especially love the first 3 tracks, and the live version was indeed amazing. But there is a bit of fussiness to it. I prefer the pared back, naturalistic sound of HOOM, don't expect she can top that one.

it's not that I dislike the original LP arrangements, it's that seeing the songs done live with the stripped down 6-piece really made them shine for me in a way that the regular LP versions didn't.

ha kind of an xp there

But it’s also the arrangements... they give it a Disney-fied feel... a “naked” version of Joanna and her harp would sound better imho... or at least something more subtle.

Oh sleeve that’s precisely what I wanted from this album. Is there an official or good live bootleg or even youtube performance you’d recommend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=1VuHEBxXHh4

Sawdust & Diamonds is one of the only songs that almost always makes me cry

Haaa, I just watched that one a few minutes ago. Probably my favorite song of hers. Amazing that she can tap into that emotion while simultaneously playing an absolutely bonkers, carpal tunnel inducing harp part.

It's always this verse:

I wanted to say: Why the long face?
Sparrow, perch and play songs of long face
Burro, buck and bray songs of long face!
Sing, I will swallow your sadness and eat your cold clay
Just to lift your long face;
And though it may be madness, I will take to the grave
Your precious long face
And though our bones they may break, and our souls separate —
Why the long face?
And though our bodies recoil from the grip of the soil —
Why the long face?

Also really love how she brought the toned down, breathy vocals to Bridges & Balloons. Somewhere between recording Ys and the tour, she really learned how to sing! It's like she suddenly upped her game considerably.

She had problems with nodules early on during the Ys tour and then again while working on Have One on Me. Had to take vocal rests and learn new techniques, so that definitely had an effect on her vocals.

I adore Ys, OTT arrangements included (even though I do enjoy the stripped down live versions, too). I was 16-17 when I first heard it and I fell in love with it almost instantly. Over the years I have tied many important memories to these songs.

22 years old

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfLfLNr7F10

an early adumbration of Ys! which is one of the most amazing albums of all time

Ys is GOAT

There's been a number of live sets by her popping up on dime over the last week or so.

Really wish she'd bring her solo show to Austin

Divers is her best album and one of the best albums I've ever heard ever in my life

Ys is the one that made me a fan and so I cherish it the most, but Divers is about equal. Divers has the best instrumentation.

Funny, I think HOOM is the best, but i love them all.

This is my current favorite Joanna Newsom story, not about her:

on line at the joanna newsom concert and bjork appears at will call with her hair in enormous buns and full velvet dress and a lavender lace mask woven with flowers and the guy at the booth asks for her ID

— Lauren Friedlander (@la_friedlander) September 16, 2019

the best part is, when asked, she patted at her pocketless velvet bodice and whispered "i...do not have it" before someone whisked her off

— Lauren Friedlander (@la_friedlander) September 16, 2019

I find it to be impossible to pick one fave, they're all extremely special to me, each in their own way.

xp lol

xxxxp Wow i had never heard that version of Sawdust.. !

The ILX massive's first taste upthread is very ILX; questioning what the Pitch4k review will be, people saying they 'get it' but don't like it, someone suggesting it's an insincere 'indie rock sham', me griping that you can't dance to any of it, some folk analysing the words before hearing the songs..

I am and was a full-bore stan for "The Milk-Eyed Mender" and I found "Ys" to be off-putting, when I downloaded it illegally as we all did.

I appreciated that Newsom, with "Ys", wished to create a "world" akin to "Song Cycle", but ironically did not think that Van Dyke Parks was the best arranger for that job, despite being.. the guy who made "Song Cycle". My feelings about "Ys" were and are more in-line with the Wire review at the time, which described Parks' arrangements as being like "Disney characters appearing and disappearing without any rhyme or reason" (paraphrased from memory, I think they were nicer about it). I adore the songs themselves, in particular "Cosmia" and "Emily", but the album itself never clicked for me.

When "Have One On Me" came out, I adored the shorter pieces, and certain longer pieces like "Go Long", but found that the moment-to-moment pacing of the album was very, very slow. "Baby Birch" in particular, although I realize it is a favourite for many, sounds interminable to me when I try and engage with it. Other songs ("On A Good Day", in particular) are among my favourites.

Considering how roundly celebrated Newsom is for Ys and HOOM, and the fact that when I listened to the first single off "Divers" I sneezed when I heard her sing "ozymandian" and switched it off, it took me a couple of years to approach "Divers"-- this, despite having every homo in my proximity crowing about how fantastic and essential it is. When I finally listened to it, I was flattened. It's a perfect record, "ozymandian" included.

i need to go back to divers

hoom is a total masterpiece imo

things that will never happen to me: getting through “in california” without crying

Yeah that song is monstrously good. I once was drunk and mentally drawing parallels between her four albums to date and Dubliners - Artist - Ulysses - Wake but that was probably just sophomoric bullshit on my end.

fgti otm, as per usual. "The Milk-Eyed Mender" is Joanna at her rawest and nakedest, a perfect Debut - like Björk's Debut - as a seed promising a flower, promising new directions after. Fantastic in its own right but even more fantastic because it holds such promise (promises that would eventually be kept).

I did download 'Ys' at the time (RIP Oink) but never thought it a bore. I was spellbound from the get-go. I found VDP's involvement distracted a lot of reviewers, but I didn't let that distract me.

"22 years old"

Erm, 32 actually. Still amazing. But..

Born 1982

Ys and Divers are my favourites.

... if you were born in 1982 you were 22 in 2004

yea 22 in that performance

fgti I agree about VDP's arrangements on Ys, and Song Cycle is my favorite album of all time. maybe that's why the only song I come back to on this record is "Sawdust & Diamonds," which is just voice and harp. "Cosmia" is a great song and probably suffers the least from the Parksian potpourri. But "Sawdust & Diamonds" is such a stunning achievement that it elevates the album for me.

"On a Good Day" is a perfect short song just as S&D is a perfect long song.

divers is pretty easily her weakest but it still has some of her best work on it, especially "sapokanikan" and "divers". it doesn't quite hold together as well as her other albums, i think due to the variety of collaborators she worked with for the arrangements, and "goose eggs" and "waltz of the 101st lightborne" are melodically grating to me in a way that her work isn't usually. idk what it is about those but something pushes them into territory where i finally understand people who find her work generally insufferable.

ys is a masterpiece and i adore the arrangements

I mean, also: I read an interview that I will not source right now wherein (iirc) Newsom spoke about how they had to scale back Parks' arrangements. I did not know if they meant that they asked him to scale things back in the writing stage, or if they did so during the mixing stage, but it sounds at certain points-- in particular, when the orchestra gets frenzied and disjointed on "Emily" and then suddenly disappears and there is a mouth harp in its place-- as if these were decisions that were made in mixing. I'm intimately familiar with Parks' arrangement-style, both in the "Song Cycle" era (I once transcribed "Palm Desert" as an exercise, so that I might learn the master's secrets), and the modern era, and he writes wall-to-wall, complicated, brilliant writing. Oftentimes it's Absolutely Incredible-- my favourite latter-day arrangement of his is "Wasting My Time" by Sam Phillips-- and other times it sounds like a very thick soup that requires some watering down to be digestible, which means that as an arranger he's extremely doing his job-- it's a far better approach to write dense and thin it out later rather than write sparsely and leave the client with not-enough-material.

But I posted upthread, some fourteen years ago, that "Song Cycle" is a marvellous benchmark for a musician to aspire toward, but that ironically... Parks would not be my first choice in achieving that goal. Chris Thile, yes. Rob Moose (who plays violin on Divers), yes. Rihm, no, (I don't know where that thought came from, I think I'd just been listening to his stuff a lot that week.) And with Divers, Newsom achieved it and surpassed it, with exquisitely wrought arrangements from Muhly and Longstreth, her fantastic list of collaborators, I think it is a stunning achievement and I frankly cower before it.

I do agree that Sawdust And Diamonds is a miraculous song, I listened to the live performance in 2006 before Ys was even announced and was blown away. "Emily" is one of her best songs, but I don't think the arrangement works (aside from that glorious moment when the strings start dextrously doubling Newsom's vocal line up an octave, that is a freakishly gorgeous moment). "Cosmia" is amazing, too. "Monkey And Bear" doesn't work as a piece of songwriting for me, but I think it's the best of the Parks-Newsom collaborations as a recording. "Only Skin" I realize is a favourite but I'd have to revisit it, I'm remembering a lot of big words and not much else.

It is absolutely bananas that she wrote songs like these at 22, 23, 24. I'm more impressed with her than I am with Brian Wilson in this regard.

I don't think Milk-Eyed Mender gets nearly enough love in the world. "Crab, Clam, Cockle, Cowrie" is a perfect song on an album of perfect songs. I can live without "Inflammatory Writ" but the rest is essential to my existence