NYC show put-er-together looking for intern(s)

must not harbor bullshit bias against the borough of Queens

[REDACTED]

so we're working together on a show on May 6th. Awesome.

fyi - a good way to get a good show out of me would be to not diss me
on message boards.

there's this:

"Re: IS THERE ANY PLACE TO BOOK IN NYC WITHOUT USING TODD P? Yeah,
it's really strange, I've been booking a tour for my band, and got
every date booked except New York City. His intern Keith finally
e-mailed me back and was like "yeah dude, we'll get you a gig" but it
took a month to receive a response, at least.

The weird thing is he asked who I wanted to play with. Anyone in NYC
willing to play a show with an outsider band on May 6th?"

that isn't super nice to find online. seriously man, maybe just lay
off the the message boards. Aside from the inherent lame-itude of a
bunch of girlfriendless dudes typing at each other all day, those
boards are also the domain of the sorts of folks who bitch and moan
very well but who actually contribute very little to new ideas or diy
scene building.

the reason it took so long for me to get back to you in the first
place (or to ask Kevin to get back to you) is because you started out
both your emails to me for some reason mentioning that silliness on
the noise pickle board or whatever it was - it's annoying to bring up
some time when I got shit talked by a bunch of losers - when I read
both your emails mentioning that I decided I promptly wasn't
interested for that reason.Changed my mind later, but that's why it
took so long.

You seem like a decent guy, I will hook up your show, but maybe work
on the verbal Internet diarrhea a little.

Todd

I make what little money I live off of by renting rehearsal spaces to bands.

I saw that personal email some dude reposted. Man was I right - that kid in that band I writing to - his name is Christopher, and his band is Magic Mountain - can't seem to keep his personal interactions private. Really should lay off the constant forwarding and written verbal diarea. But whatever, I stand by my words there, and btw - I gave his band a good show with a good crowd. His got paid pretty well, drew nobody.

Sorry to dis all you message boarders, but what can I say - I sure get my share of snarky put downs from all you guys.

let the hater shit storm begin.

love, Todd

ha ha, yes I enjoyed wathcing you guys writhe during their set.

yeah I heard something somewhere about you noister record collectors not digging the spazzrock kids. Funny how the room was most full when Matt and Kim were on though...

Todd

-- hstencil (hstenc!...) (webmail),

I wonder where this meme came from. I get it from bouncers all the time. Is it some anti-Irish deal?

D. Scott Selzer

hey todd, are you still putting on shows in people's houses, getting drunk at the shows, bitching out the owners of the space, bitching out the bands, and then not paying any of the performers (except maybe the ones you are friends with)?

1. One time Todd booked Metalux and Montotract on a "beach" (a.k.a., a bar full of d00dz where there is sand on the ground to make it look like beach). Todd was out of town so the bands were left to fend for themselves. The owner--who was assuredly rocking overalls--comes out FURIOUS after Metalux plays a particularly vicious noise set (I think he may have pulled the plug too). He started screaming: "TODD TOLD ME THIS WAS INDIE ROCK! I UNDERSTAND NEUBATEN AND STUFF BUT THIS IS RIDICULOUS!"

also that fat guy googles, there's an old noize bored thread about it, let's not bring it up again.

My (now-ex-)gf (bummerz) was so bummed out by the experience of that show that she cried. I, however, had a blast!

2. BIG PARKING LOT SHOW #1, 2005
I fell asleep in the parking lot when Lighning Bolt played cuz i was so tired from being their all day long. Also, i have pictures of some girl doing a very entertaining piece of performance art dressed as a frog, where she ate lots of french fries off the ground.

yeah let's not forget the transvestite doing the bait-and-switch on the beer too, jon.

nope, and never was. I love these kind of claims because they are always so totally bogus and obviously made up / exaggerated - haence the huge vague-itude of the accusation.

Yes, I am a guy who is a regular dude as well as guy who puts shows together, Yes, I drink, sometimes too much. But ask anybody - I pay the bands well, and venue providers only get bitched out if they are deserving, and usually not even then - typically I am a hugely tolerant kiss-ass of anyone who lets me put on events in their space - to the point of it often being a deliberate struggle to do so because often these people are huge pieces of crap.

thanks for trying so obviously to tarnish my star, but dude you are seriously wrong and pulling false shit out of your ass.

and on the subject of that beach show - hstensil Joel and my very experienced intern Alex were there in charge - I hardly left anyone to fend for themselves. The problem was clearly the proprietor's weird deal, and nobody else's. I spent 30 dollars on international phone calls that night cleaning up the mess that suspender wearing dude unneccessarily created for everyone. But everyone got to play, we moved the show, it turned out as well as it could have given some fat idiot's prediliction for reniging on his agreements.

Weinegarten, you should know better.

yes well, I know how to work it and keep things happening, most of the time anyway.

The funny part of the story was supposed to be dude's crazy quote (and the suspenders). My mistake was assuming people would realize it was his fault and not you guys, cuz the quote was so mind-boggling! It was my way of saying "I love Todd P," but in that roundabout way. Sorry if my shitty anecdote-telling abilities made it appear like I wasn't giving credit where credit was due.

and the idea that todd doesn't pay bands is laughable. some friends of mine who only had 9 or so people show up to their show at uncle paulie's a couple weeks back still got paid.

nope, and never was. I love these kind of claims because they are always so totally bogus and obviously made up / exaggerated - haence the huge vague-itude of the accusation.
>>>>>

Though you dismiss it out of hand, Mr. P, Dan is disgruntled because of a personal experience with you putting on shows at his house and then not respecting the way he and his roommates wanted to run having shows at their house. Granted I've only heard the story from Dan and it may have been solely a case of poor communication, but Dan's complaint is neither hearsay nor slander. From other complaints that circulate it also may not be abberation.

And hiding behind a shield of "but I've never made money" or "look how much it's cost me" or "i never benefit from this charity i give to the scene" is bullshit. You get name dropped in the NYT and the Voice and the brand-name/cred you've built up in the nyc promoting scene is bankable and i'm sure personally rewarding in other ways.

That said, you do put on a lot of good shows and, along with others, helped bring in the booming nyc hipster rock scene, for better or ill. Nobody's perfect.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

hear‧say  /ˈhɪərˌseɪ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[heer-sey] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge: I pay no attention to hearsay...

for what it's worth.

Personally, Todd's always been pro w/ me and the bands I've involved with him.

Oftentimes the situation is such that the hosts don't really know what they're doing and yet they also want to maximise their control over the siituation, frequently for now other reason than control issues.

That said, I can tell you unequivically, I treat the spaces I use, and the people who run them, very very well. There are some people that can't be pleased though, and frankly, when you do as many shows I as I do, you will eventually run into people who you just don't work well with on a chemistry level. Contrary to what you insinuate though, that situation -is- an abberation.

Which Ben and which house and which show? It's hard to address a complaint when I don't even know what situation I'm being criticised for.

this is Wrink P. i'm in nyc now.
holla atcha boy.

well, c ya

is it possible that you're not the most perfect diy show promoter ever? that you've disrespected people in putting on shows, even if accidently? it's gonna happen even if yr as perfect a promoter as you claim. looking at yr bookings yr doing something right and people keep working with you but frankly the manner (and self-rightousness and humility) you defend yrself is off-putting to me.

for the record: I've never had any personal dealings with you, todd. I'm not even sure if I've been to any toddp shows given that I haven't lived in New York in 4+ years.

i was in the city for the weekend with some LSD and this show was such a blast but that girl freaked me out a little. just enough to make everything 'edgy.'

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/5968/dsc507101wv5.jpg

That said, I can tell you unequivically, I treat the spaces I use, and the people who run them, very very well.

the situation here was that we were having shows quite regularly and knew exactly how we liked to do things. free. with encouraged donations. you treated our space with little respect and us with almost none. you ignored our rules, requiring me to tell you and your assistant 5 times that you were not to stand at the door taking money and marking hands (though I shouldn't have had to tell you ever, as we had the same issue at the previous show you did there). frankly, I can't see how you ever treat the spaces and people who run them with great respect if you don't respect that it is their space and they deserve maximized control over how their home is used.

as a final insult that evening, after a little too much to drink, you started arguing with my roommate about his attitude. when I came to his defense, you started arguing with us about our attitude. when we questioned you about where all the collected money was going, you told us we were accusing you of misdealings, said you do everything for the band, but never answered the question. then when it was pointed out to you that the band was left in the lurch because you wouldn't reply to their emails, you started an argument with the band. finally, after it was all over, the band (AiH) was never paid; neither was the opening band whom we invited. maybe you paid the bands the brought along -- I don't know.

I would have chalked that up to you getting caught up in an argument, except a few days later you sent a multiple page email to us, complaing further, explaining all the work you do for a show beyond bringing a PA (which consisted of taping fake grass and peeps around our apartment [easter], and sending out an email). You then accused us of having done nothing for the show. I guess our cleaning the basement from floor to ceiling (it flooded regularly with raw sewage) and housing the band for two weeks (some members for over three weeks) was nothing. not to mention the clean-up afterwards.

that's just one show. there were similar issues at the show before it. and at the show prior to that there was the hilarious issue of starting two hours late because after asking our friend to use his car to get the PA from your place, you spent time making a "classic hip hop" mix on your computer to burn and bring with you to the show. none of this is hearsay and now none of it is vague. I won't even get into what happened at the Haliburton last year, because for me that is hearsay; but I'd love for one of the offended parties to call you out on that.

so yeah, matt (who may have spent much time there, but was never a roommate; also in way of corrections, this was two (2) years ago) and lucas --- neither of whom had to deal with you in any capacity while setting up shows at the fort --- may love you, but I know many people who have been soured.

payment is mountains of SCENE CRED. real money is for capitalist pigs!

we passed a hat. it usually wasn't very much money, but the bands always new that the shows were free before they agreed to play and no band ever complained. most bands were local and had no expenses and just wanted to play. and more than half of the touring bands were also using the place as a homebase while in town (many playing other [larger] shows while in town too). as for beer sales --- at our earliest shows we even stocked the fridge full of beer free for the audience. it's also not like we were hosting such immensely popular shows where the band was drawing in tons of people and not seeing any money from it.

but yeah, it is bitchy. and slightly pathetic, I'll admit, since it was two years ago.

why am i on yr mailing list?

kthx bye.

So if we're all going to recount how things went down at individual shows many years ago, here goes.

That show was on Easter 2003. I showed up and set up the show in their basement starting before noon, as it was a Sunday matinee show and we had a lot of bands (the house threw extra bands - friends of theirs - on it at the last minute), it was a lot of work. We decorated the muggy, dirty, awesome basement with Easter decorations and it was a really nice, fun vibe down there.

From the onset there were weird tensions with Dan - as there had been to a lesser degree at previous shows. I couldn't get any help with running power or setting up or decorating or figuring out a reasonable order - Dan wanted to dictate the order of the bands, Dan wanted to say when people started playing, Dan wanted to change where the entrance was, and then there was the whole constantly shifting stance on whether or not we could ask people for donations.

I each case Dan (A.) would say one thing, very accomodating and apologetic to me, and then another completely different, and much more hostile, thing to my doorman, Ariel Herrera - and also, Dan would (B.) continuously assert that "it was his house and he gets to make all decisions". That's all well and good and I did my best to obey his proclamations, despite finding his insisting on controlling everything, and being acknowledged for being the "decider", pretty petty and childish.

Fine, show continues, as at previous shows I'd done at their house, the house policy on whether my friend Ariel can stand at the entrance and ask people for donations keeps changing. At the beginning, Ariel's there, Dan knows he's there, and all's cool. It was the same way we had done it at several previous shows - and how I thought we had worked it out to run the door after a minor league disagreement at the show before.

As the day wears on - and, I suspect, as Dan starts to feel opportunites waning for asserting his emperor status in the house - Dan suddenly starts harassing Ariel, making him arbitrarily give back money that people had donated, trying to take his hand stamp away, making him stand in a diffrent place that keeps changing, and finally asking him "why are you still here?" and telling him he's an idiot and doesn't understand how to follow rules.

Dan hounds him off and on for a few hours while I'm in the other room running sound and keeping the huge number of bands on the bill on time (there were so many because Dan would rutinely demand that his and his friends' bands play on every show at the house.)

At no point does Dan approach me and try to explain his new policy, whatever it was, on whether or not we can ask for donations. he instead harasses my very sweet and very understanding and fair and nonconfrontational doorman, who doesn't make decisions and doesn't want to have any responsibility.

Eventually I go out to check on things and I see Ariel not his post. When I eventually find him, he's very flustered and very shook up. He starts telling me that Dan has been riding his ass all day, telling not to stand here, or there, or anywhere, taking donation money and stamps out of his hand - and that Dan's just gotten finished berating him and telling him he's stupid. Anyone who knows Ariel knows he is a bright guy who is widely loved and incredibly chill. I've never seen him as upset over a single interaction with someone.

I try to find Dan to bring this up to him and try to work out what it is he is trying to pull. I talk to him briefly - then have to run into the other room and deal with sound stuff. I come back and Dan's gone. I can't find him - he's ditched his own party. I find Chuck, Dan's roomate and a skittish and nonconfronational sort of guy, and try to explain to him that I need to talk to Dan and that they need to work - and talk! - with me if they want to change aspects of how we're doing things. Dan has apparently gotten to Chuck already and Chuck barely listens to me and then tells me that I flaked on the show and was a terrible promoter because I hadn't sent Architecture in Helsinki load in instructions before the show. This on a show that had a great turnout, great bands and performances, and - until then - really nice vibes. That's pretty much the end of the conversation, from there Chuck clams up and refuses to talk to me anymore.

I go down and set up AiH's sound stuff, get them started and do sound for their set, and then Ariel and I clean up the basement and the upstairs to a much nicer state than it was when we arrived, down to last strand of Easter grass. During the remainder of the show, and the time afterwards when we clean up, neither Dan nor Chuck is anywhere to be found.

I count the money, of which there is very little for a number of reasons - namely that Dan would harass Ariel whenever he saw him asking people for donations, and that Dan and Chuck insisted on letting people enter the house from two entrances, meaning it was pretty much impossible to hit people up for donations. Dan never attempted to "pass the hat".

Of what little money there was - barely anything amongst many bands - we divide it up fairly. I don't rememeber any specifics after 3 and a half years, but I can tell you that, in addition to not even thinking about being reinbursed for the money I spent on the show, on charcoal and BBQ food, on decorations, on the PA, I also threw in money out of pocket. Nobody got stiffed, and I not only took nothing but lost a nice chunk 'o change on the show. I believe Dan's friends' band left and didn't get payed for that reason, and, if I remember correctly, I was told by Aih that their tour was payed for via some Australian grant and that therefor they didn't need to get paid for a such a little, fun show. Nonetheless, an attempt was made.

Yup.

no worries chief..you're an engine..just roll on

i was talking with aih's manager a while back before i got my current job about being their tour manager. government grant or not, i doubt it would be looked on very kindly if in that position their tm tried to make sure they didn't get paid.

sooo many peeps! and I don't mean people, I'm talking marshmellow bunnies and lil' chicks. I must have eaten like a hundred.

um, why do you feel that way?

Given that the show didn't make enough for any of the bands to even get paid cab fare, I think there was definately a need for something more than a pass the hat guy. Bands shouldn't lose money playing shows. One of those bands was from Australia, btw. That's a lot of cab fare. We only found out about the grant thing after the fact.

I really don't believe in catering to people who can't assert themselves. If people didn't want to contribute, fine, but be big enough to say out loud that you aren't able to, or don't want to, kick down.

I walk up the ticket counter and donate nothing, and get my little reciept saying so, at the Metropolitan Museum of Art and at PS1 all the time. It neither embarasses nor kills me to have to say it out loud that I don't want to contribute.

I'd never assume this.

I love AiH, btw, particularly that first record they were touring at the time. And beyond that, good for you for contributing something and taking the bad with the good and adding to the cultural life of yer city and all that guff.

They had this weird attitude that it all should have gone without saying and it was tracky to discuss - as if anytime that anyone charges money for anything it's undebatably unethical or somesuch.

first off, again, though not really important, it was two years ago (2004), not three, not four. though by your memory it may well have been 1983. we never threw bands on at the last minute at any of the shows you were involved with; that was part of the beef, as you treated the bands we invited as second class, insisting they play first, treating them as if they'd been added to the bill that very day / should be lucky they were playing. At USAISAMONSTER, Total War had been there from the start (that's why they're on the lovely silkscreened poster the USA dudes made two weeks before the show). At the easter show, Sisterhood of Convoluted Thinkers and Strega: same thing (sans poster). In fact, it was on the day of or before when you added your last minute act, Tae Won Yu.

Your Easter decorations consisted of peeps and fake grass taped to our stoop and a pole in the basement. It took you a minute to put it up (actually I remember a gal with a funky haircut doing the exterior) and it remained in the basement for a little while afterwards (hence I'm doubting the clean-up effort --- though you got out most of the beer cans from the basement, I'll give you that.) Really no amount of decorating improves the shit-flooded basement more than the actual two day scrubbing. You never volunteered to get down and personal with the city's feces the way Chuck and I did, but I really wouldn't have expected you to, as it wasn't your task to complete. (However, the fact that we did go down there to scrape shit off of every surface, means complaining we didn't help peep-ify the basement is rather silly.)

I wouldn't say there really was tension from the very start. Well maybe, because you took exception to the email I sent to our mailing list highlighting that Fort Awesome actually was involved in the show. Yeah, it was a petty joke, but you had a tendency to forget that we were collaborating with you rather than working for you.

I remember one of the first things I said to you was that I didn't want your employee standing at anything that was an entrance and taking a fee and then marking hands. I.e. I didn't want their to be a ticket price, as it was, by (yes unpublished, but still well known) manifesto, a FREE venue at all times. You knew this very well because we had the same problem at USAIsAMonster when I had to tell your employee to stop standing outside the door and marking people's hands as they paid. and yet he kept returning to the entrance and doing it. I didn't really fault your employee for that, I understood that he was just doing what you told him to do. And I didn't verbally berate him. But there was certainly no changing of policies. It was made clear to you over and over again that we did not want you or an employee standing at an entrance and marking people's hands as they paid an entrance fee, because that's not how the space worked.

The idea that I kept changing entrances is silly. There was no set entrance. People could walk into the house and go down to the basement or they could walk directly into the basement through either usual street entrances. Since we weren't taking tickets, it didn't really matter. The reason I kept asserting to you that it was indeed our house, was that you never seemed to respect that. When we said no taking tickets at the door, you should have immediately stopped. This is what I mean by a lack of respect.

I never once asked your employee to give money back to people. And while I never passed the hat around at a show you were involved in, I certainly did it at the shows you weren't. We conceded to you that you would be in charge of the money, as you were set on being in charge of it. We also left the sound duties to you as it was your PA, you were highly concerned about leaving it in perfect condition so as to return it to the store after use, and treated it like your own child.

I don't know how exactly your argument with Chuck started, but I came in from watching the band and found you arguing with him about perceived hostilities and sense of distrust over handling the money your employee had taken. All I remember Chuck asking was to be sure the money went to the bands. You then started in with both of us about how we did nothing for the show. Chuck mentioned in the course of the discussion that the Architecture kids couldn't get a hold of you in the month or two (or three?) prior to the show, despite numerous emails and attempted phone calls. They wanted to find out about what they should do when they get into the city, where the show was, where they were going to be staying or if they had a place to stay (not load-in times). Eventually they got in touch with us directly and we assured them they'd have places to stay with us and the sisterhood folk. At this point a member of the band walks by and you start arguing with him about it in the same belligerent way you were arguing with Chuck and then me.

After the show neither of the two bands we had invited nor the headliner were paid anything. There were two other bands on the bill, I guess they got paid.

That's the evening, dude. Days later you emailed us with a similar rant to the one you posted above (though with many of the facts closer to the truth). I laughed when I heard that as soon as Chuck and I had moved out, you called asking about shows.

-- Dan Gr (certai...), October 5th, 2006.

WHOTHEFUCKCARESSTOPWHININGGOAWAY

I do remember the weird detail Dan brings up about email - he sent out a snippy email to his listserve because the show announcement I sent out said "brought to you with love by Todd P" - as they all do. Dan decided that this was an implicit statement that the show was not brought by Fort Awesome. Seemed way petty to me.

I also offerred to come over and clean up their basement several times when they weren't feelin' it and didn't want to do shows because it was trashed or whatever.

I'll stand by Ariel when he says Dan was belligerent towards him - that he was belligerent to Ariel is the whole reason I confronted him. You don't harass with my door people, particularly not when you are doing so because you want to avoid talking directly to me.

I never got into an argument with any member of Architecture in Helsinki - I do remember them expecting more correspondence from me pre-show (I heard this only from Chuck though) but I treat every band the same way. In those days the show thing was way more hobby style / part time than it is now as well, and I wasn't always chock full o' time to get to back to everyone all the time - having a serious button down job at the time. Most everyone seemed to be able to figure things out just fine based on the info I gave them. Some higher profile bands (like AiH) may be used to more handholding, but my scruffy system seems to do fine by most people, then and now. I don't claim it to be perfect, I would love to send nice itineraries out for every show and make everything more together and followed through, but it's all by the seat of my pants and half-halfassed and unpaid. Luckily it seems to work out okay and I love doing what I do.

Bottom line, I would have respected Dan's free-vibe if it had ever really been clearly explained to me, I actually think it's a neat idea on many levels, albeit very idealistic. The main problem between myself and Dan and Chuck was that both of those dudes are just completely different from me on a chemistry level, they see confrontation as inherantly belligerent and avoid it, and I see it as the way people work shit out and communicate. Where they were coming from and where I am coming from aren't all that different, they are more idealistic, I'm more pragmatic. But I'm also not afraid to disagree with people, those guys are the sorts that would rather be indirect than oppositional. I don't get along so well with those sorts of people, particularly not in get-shit-done collaborative sort of situations.

wait a second don't answer that, anyone.

No.

don't answer that either.

Beyond roffly. :-D

Guess who kicked me out of a venue for puffin on a cigarette by an open window; SECONDS after smoking a huge blunt in the front row of the show?

"just for tobacco man"

take it to williamsboard.