Pop Justice Album

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1. Rihanna
S.O.S. (Rescue Me)

2. The Automatic
Monster (Culprit One Mix)

3. Sugababes
I Bet You Look Good On The Dancefloor

4. Girls Aloud
Love Machine (demo)

5. Annie
Me Plus One

6. Alesha
Lipstick

7. Ladytron
Destroy Everything You Touch

8. Franz Ferdinand
Do You Want To

9. Justice V Simian
We Are Your Friends

10. Client
Lights Go Out

11. The Similou
All This Love (The Drill Mix)

12. The Pussycat Dolls
Hot Stuff (I Want You Back)

13. Stefy
Chelsea

14. Pet Shop Boys
It's A Sin (Barfly Version)

15. Rachel Stevens
Some Girls

16. Britney Spears
Do Somethin'

17. Kelly Clarkson
Since You Been Gone (Jason Nevins Radio Edit)

18. Scissor Sisters
Mary (Junkie XL Radio Edit)

19. Nelly Furtado
Maneater

20. The Killers
Mr. Brightside (Thin White Duke Radio Edit)

21. Sophie Ellis-Bextor
Dear Jimmy

22. Girls Aloud
Biology (Radio Edit / Tony Lamezma Mix)

DIE COOL POP MUSIC DIE

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 13:47 (nineteen years ago)

Are you ok Ronan? You've sounded a bit stressed recently.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 13:49 (nineteen years ago)

lol 2004

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 13:51 (nineteen years ago)

Yes I am fine really....

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 13:54 (nineteen years ago)

But it's the SUGABABES covering the ARCTIC MONKEYS and therefore JUSTIFYING them to a SKEPTICAL AUDIENCE! (ie, the Lex)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 13:56 (nineteen years ago)

An OK compilation but too pandering with its mixes, demos, exclusives, rub indie covers etc. (i.e. Just buy a Now Album, sez uncle pop)

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 13:58 (nineteen years ago)

Tom: what compilation doesn't pander to some extent or another?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 13:58 (nineteen years ago)

The answer is in my comment!

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:01 (nineteen years ago)

1. Rihanna S.O.S. (Rescue Me) - Rihanna's worst moment to date excluding the new single
2. The Automatic Monster (Culprit One Mix) - disgusting
3. Sugababes I Bet You Look Good On The Dancefloor - AAAARGH
4. Girls Aloud Love Machine (demo) - hurrah! also old!
5. Annie Me Plus One - hurrah! also old!
6. Alesha Lipstick - well dodgy rock
7. Ladytron Destroy Everything You Touch - boring indie pop
8. Franz Ferdinand Do You Want To - vile
9. Justice V Simian We Are Your Friends - hi dere 2003
10. Client Lights Go Out - erm I thought Client had split up under the weight of their own crapness somewhere in 2002?
11. The Similou All This Love (The Drill Mix) - what is this?
12. The Pussycat Dolls Hot Stuff (I Want You Back) - :D
13. Stefy Chelsea - what is this?
14. Pet Shop Boys It's A Sin (Barfly Version) - barfly version????
15. Rachel Stevens Some Girls - hurrah! also old!
16. Britney Spears Do Somethin' - this is a really underrated pop song. also old!
17. Kelly Clarkson Since You Been Gone (Jason Nevins Radio Edit) - hmm
18. Scissor Sisters Mary (Junkie XL Radio Edit) - junkie xl mix??? i don't think i want to hear this
19. Nelly Furtado Maneater - this is just coming out of its overplayed phase, in time for end-of-yr xmas parties, so hurrah
20. The Killers Mr. Brightside (Thin White Duke Radio Edit) - i love you jacques lu cont
21. Sophie Ellis-Bextor Dear Jimmy - I don't like you sophie ellis-bextor
22. Girls Aloud Biology (Radio Edit / Tony Lamezma Mix) - bored now

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:01 (nineteen years ago)

The answer is in my comment!

:-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:01 (nineteen years ago)

But it's the SUGABABES covering the ARCTIC MONKEYS and therefore JUSTIFYING them to a SKEPTICAL AUDIENCE!

it just makes me think a bit less of the sugababes :(

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:01 (nineteen years ago)

How dare you deviate from the script!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

Rihanna S.O.S. (Rescue Me) - Rihanna's worst moment to date excluding the new single

oh plz!

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:04 (nineteen years ago)

I guess my more rational interpretation of this would be....where did the "popism" thing go in the last year or two, I mean is it just me or did it sort of blow up as an ok thing to say "pop is good" and cite the likes of the above.....or is this just a minor comp?

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:04 (nineteen years ago)

Is 'Monster' ths song I keep hearing on telly adverts, 'is that a monster coming over the hill'? If so dud. Most of the rest looks ok, but seems bizarrely behind the curve, I though popjustice was supposed to be NEW and CUTTING EDGE.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:06 (nineteen years ago)

ronan otm.

i find this compilation very depressing, like rereading an ilm thread from two or three years ago. it feels so stale.

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:08 (nineteen years ago)

Amazon.co.uk sales rank: 611 in music. So I dunno if "blowing up" is the right word. The idea is to appeal to new and returning students I think.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

THIS JUST IN: If you don't like Girls Aloud, you're obviously some kind of rockist bigoted conservative type.

― wordy rappaport (EstieButtez1), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

there's 0x urgency behind this, it is just a now compilation with airs (ie sans westlife... uh and r&b) for quasi-hipsters.

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

But anyway, why not just download the 3-4 songs there that you would like and/or are listenable.

― wordy rappaport (EstieButtez1), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:10 (nineteen years ago)

because i did in 2004.

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:11 (nineteen years ago)

needs usher's 'yeah!' though :(

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:12 (nineteen years ago)

why are ppl having a beef that its got oldish songs on it? yr all so wannabe hipsters, admit it

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

Popjustice - the CD with some great pop from the last 24 months on it!

nice cover tho

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

Ha, I just realised "Do You Want To" is on the tracklist.

OK, this officially sucks.

― wordy rappaport (EstieButtez1), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

Isn't the CD more about marketing the Popjustice brand. Peter Robinson seems to have been expanding the products he can associate with it in the last year or so.

The CD tracklisting is quite disappointing for what PJ stands for, most of the stuff you can already get on other pop albums anyway.

― jellybean (jellybean), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:17 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah the 'old tunes' criticism is off - the target market here isn't people who pay attention to the charts or listen to pop much. It does a reasonable job of making a case for modern pop without the safety catch of irony, though as I said above I don't like the safety catch it's replaced irony with much.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:17 (nineteen years ago)

PopJustice The Album 2008: THE LILY ALLEN/LIL' CHRIS EDITION

― wordy rappaport (EstieButtez1), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:20 (nineteen years ago)

Popjustice The Album 2008: Really ace pop tunes you've come to really love in the last 4 days and no longer in case the ppl on ILM have heard them more than 4 times in a club already

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:20 (nineteen years ago)

Fuck that, I want Robinson to travel into time and pick me up some tunes from the Girls Aloud Reunion Tour of 2019.

― wordy rappaport (EstieButtez1), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:22 (nineteen years ago)

Isn't the CD more about marketing the Popjustice brand. Peter Robinson seems to have been expanding the products he can associate with it in the last year or so.

what is this brand all about?

the email is just a press release only with slightly amusing wording a la smash hits.

he never seems to write about music. is the album the pop record for OMM readers we've all been waiting for?

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:29 (nineteen years ago)

I think you forgot about them hi-larious Mr. Men-esque books that set the bestseller lists on fire, my friend!

― wordy rappaport (EstieButtez1), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:31 (nineteen years ago)

The website
The books
The mobile phone download zine
The t-shirt
The club

probably coming soon the 90s popstar style fanclub

― jellybean (jellybean), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:35 (nineteen years ago)

You are of course aware that no one outside of ILM or Popjustice has actually heard most of these records, right?

I am of course aware that no one outside of ILM or Popjustice will even consider buying this.

Nice cover though :)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:35 (nineteen years ago)

You are of course aware that no one outside of ILM or Popjustice has actually heard most of these records, right?

errrr, really? rihanna, girls allowed, sugababes?

what are the books?

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:37 (nineteen years ago)

I was thinking more Annie, Jacques Lu Cont, The Similou, Client etc etc. They're not 'old' to the casual pop fan.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:38 (nineteen years ago)

Nice cover though :)

thank you :)

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:38 (nineteen years ago)

1. Rihanna
S.O.S. WELL KNOWN

2. The Automatic
Monster (Culprit One Mix)
WELL KNOWN

3. Sugababes
I Bet You Look Good On The Dancefloor
WELL KNOWN

4. Girls Aloud
Love Machine (demo) WELL KNOWN

5. Annie
Me Plus One ILM PASSIM

6. Alesha
Lipstick ;_;

7. Ladytron
Destroy Everything You Touch NOT FAMOUS

8. Franz Ferdinand
Do You Want To WELL KNOWN

9. Justice V Simian
We Are Your Friends WELL KNOWN

10. Client
Lights Go Out NEVER HEARD OF

11. The Similou
All This Love (The Drill Mix) NEVER HEARD OF

12. The Pussycat Dolls
Hot Stuff (I Want You Back) WELL KNOWN

13. Stefy
Chelsea NEVER HEARD OF

14. Pet Shop Boys
It's A Sin (Barfly Version) QUITE FAMOUS

15. Rachel Stevens
Some Girls WELL KNOWN

16. Britney Spears
Do Somethin' WELL KNOWN

17. Kelly Clarkson
Since You Been Gone (Jason Nevins Radio Edit) WELL KNOWN (PROBABLY SHIT)

18. Scissor Sisters
Mary (Junkie XL Radio Edit) SEE ABOVE

19. Nelly Furtado
Maneater WELL KNOWN

20. The Killers
Mr. Brightside (Thin White Duke Radio Edit) WELL KNOWN

21. Sophie Ellis-Bextor
Dear Jimmy IS THIS NEW?

22. Girls Aloud
Biology (Radio Edit / Tony Lamezma Mix) WELL KNOWN

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

Of course, if the marketing people behind Annie or Ladytron were really interested in spreading the word they'd be getting their tracks on free CDs in the pages of Glamour and not on preaching to the converted compilations like this one.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:40 (nineteen years ago)

Is Jason Nevins still alive?

Blimey.

― wordy rappaport (EstieButtez1), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:41 (nineteen years ago)

The books come with finger puppets!

http://www.popjustice.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=104&Itemid=79

― jellybean (jellybean), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

The Nevins "Since U Been Gone" is good, though the club remix of "Because Of You" is much better.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

i can reveal that the tracklisting went thru several iterations and the sort of nightmare clearance issues you may be able to imagine (clearing Britney and Rihanna songs for an actual MIX CD would appear to be more difficult than clearing tracks for a FabricLive mix* of whatever) which goes some way towards explaining why it is what it is. have a fair degree of sympathy for the makers of it as a result.

*altho this makes me wonder how difficult it is to clear tracks for these and other mixes of this type - given the wealth of them these days

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

Nevins...good...remix?

Sorry, I can't fathom that!

― wordy rappaport (EstieButtez1), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

Rihanna S.O.S. (Rescue Me) - Rihanna's worst moment to date excluding the new single

oh plz!

THE RIHANNA CANON IN ORDER:

unfaithful
pon de replay
break it off
if it's loving that you want
sos
we ride

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:45 (nineteen years ago)

OK DR LEAVIS

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:47 (nineteen years ago)

i have no sympathy with people who cream over 'sos' or 'beware of the dog' just because the recognise the obvious sample and fail to listen and hear the way it completely destroys the song beneath.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:47 (nineteen years ago)

although by "Rihanna's worst moment to date" i probably didn't think you actually meant "fifth best"!!

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:47 (nineteen years ago)

Alang OTM upthread.

I shall probably buy this, even though there are at least 3 tracks on it I actively dislike. Sounded like a fun party mix to me when I sampled it on a listening post t'other week.

― Jeff W (zebedee), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:48 (nineteen years ago)

i have never heard the depeche mode original so am free of this vice.

xpost

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:48 (nineteen years ago)

I'm sure it's easy to get clearance for a Fabric mix. These obscure German producers get to appear on compilation bought by thousands of people and get associated with a really cool DJ. I can't imagine why many dance labels would object.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:49 (nineteen years ago)

to hear the 'Love Machine' demo tho - inferior tho it may be to the eventual version it's interesting for it to emerge in this way and illustrates how many changes a song can go thru (even if it is just lyrically). i would've been just as happy hearing it via YSI at the time or whatever tho (i don't know how much of an 'exclusive' it is).

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:49 (nineteen years ago)

but anyway apparently rihanna's 'people' would only let 'sos' be used if it was track 1

although by "Rihanna's worst moment to date" i probably didn't think you actually meant "fifth best"!!

fifth best single out of only six! including album tracks it's still near the bottom

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:50 (nineteen years ago)

there's a reasonable degree of eclecticism to many of the mixes tho - older songs, token post-punk drop-ins etc. - it makes you wonder how much compromise occurs in these cases (Popjustice comp. def. involved compromises but nothing too damaging, relatively, i would say)

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:51 (nineteen years ago)

i suppose that's the advantage of using more obscure or rarer material for a mix comp (whether 'eclectic' or more specific/focussed). the problem then is whether enough people buy it. a Popjustice comp that was all rare/obscure pop would be nice but probably wouldn't sell as well as this one (difficult because the 'everyone's already got half these songs' argument counters this - you can't win!).

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:54 (nineteen years ago)

i actually find it difficult to understand why anyone buys compilations at all when it's so easy to make one's own!

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:56 (nineteen years ago)

i guess they feel they might be introduced to new artists and sounds outside of their experience.

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:58 (nineteen years ago)

well yeah i was gonna say, only if it's all stuff which might be unknown to them!

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:59 (nineteen years ago)

i bought Chris Lake's Electric Boutique comp. the other week - go figure.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 14:59 (nineteen years ago)

now i can hear the sumptuous textures of Fedde Le Grande as the good lord intended!

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 15:00 (nineteen years ago)

This is a MIX CD?

I find that sorta intriguing...

7. Ladytron Destroy Everything You Touch - boring indie pop
16. Britney Spears Do Somethin' - this is a really underrated pop song
lex otm

― brr (fandango), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 15:03 (nineteen years ago)

in reality 'mix CD' here means very little beat-matched transitions and more relatively smooth (but often abrupt) segues. it's not quite 2 Many DJs (lol 2002 amirite) in approach/style.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 15:07 (nineteen years ago)

18. Scissor Sisters Mary (Junkie XL Radio Edit) - junkie xl mix??? i don't think i want to hear this

Britney vs Junkie XL - 'Outrageous' gets my endorsement. And frankly, he probably couldn't make the Sisters sound any worse.

― Badrock Example (Barima), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 15:12 (nineteen years ago)

xpost - more Michael Mayer then? ;)

― brr (fandango), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 15:13 (nineteen years ago)

the 'mix' here is just sharp edits and stutter edits in the manner of a no name MOS compilation, but as it was McSleazy that did the mixing, I assume there was more of a "dont mess about with the songs" from some of the record labels.

or he wasnt paid much to do it, so 3 weeks in front of protools wasnt really worth it.

its like 2many Djs in that I can imagine hearing it at parties and in bars that wouldnt normally play Client & Ladytron.

Its like 2manyDjs in that a year from now it will be teethgrindinly overplayed at parties and bars that dont normally play Client & Ladytron.

― danny boy (danny boy), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 15:18 (nineteen years ago)

parties & bars which don't play client and ladytron = GOOD PLACES

(nb i liked 'seventeen' but that was FOUR YEARS AGO)

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 15:21 (nineteen years ago)

cor, she'd be 21 now

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 15:25 (nineteen years ago)

NO FUN

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 15:25 (nineteen years ago)

this cd should totally have vitalic 'no fun' on it!

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 15:28 (nineteen years ago)

No Cobrastyle, no credibility.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 15:29 (nineteen years ago)

it should have 'human fly' on it, just for yucks.

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 15:31 (nineteen years ago)

all this way down and no one mentions the real reason for getting it =
MCSLEAZY!

― pisces (piscesx), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

It's quite specifically positioned as a manifesto for mid-00s pop, what with its Jon Savage sleeve notes and all, and aimed at people who don't normally buy pop music. It works well as a mixed CD - the mixing in question being fairly perfunctory, and really just designed to eliminate the gaps - and succeeds in making a couple of tracks I didn't previously like (HELLO ALESHA) sound quite marvellous in context. The new and previously unreleased PSB remake of "It's A Sin" is pretty good - more of an mid-tempo 83-84 Italo feelto it. They're also smart enough to have spotted that "Monster" is a great pop song; the re-contextualisation shows this up well. (In this respect, "Chelsea Dagger" would have been a good addition.)

― mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 16:24 (nineteen years ago)

...but the "Love Machine" demo (with radically different lyrics) sounds too demo-like in comparison to the glossy stuff which surrounds it.

― mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 16:26 (nineteen years ago)

i wonder how much pop music jon savage listens to...

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 16:28 (nineteen years ago)

more than you!

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 16:35 (nineteen years ago)

xpost: Quite possibly not a vast amount. He writes his sleeve notes more from the perspective of an interested outsider lending an endorsement, rather than as the actual compiler.

― mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 16:39 (nineteen years ago)

every time i hear monster all the way through (which thankfully is not so often this month) i am reminded at how perfect a pop song it is from start to finish, and how shocked i was when i first realised that.

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 16:40 (nineteen years ago)

I underestimated The Automatic until I saw them live. Very entertained, we were. Good cover of "Gold Digger" as well. With flute!

― mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 16:42 (nineteen years ago)

oh, stevem with the zings. but i'm not getting paid for my authoritative take on it, in sleevenotes innit.

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 16:50 (nineteen years ago)

Isn't the fact that the "average pop fan" hasn't heard these tunes the most damning indictment of all?

Is this stuff even pop music? It's a little evocative of when people call Belle and Sebastian or Super Furry Animals "pop".

Most of these tunes have had a painfully slow slide towards vague coolness, or whatever people who buy this sort of music look for in a CD, must we endure this ENDLESS "omg the 80s" 4 years after electroclash. Perhaps I'm cynical cos I djed at a club 3 years ago doing this electropop+everything else formula but come on, it is so lame and tired by now....

I know that sounds elitist but sometimes it's just my fairly strong opinion that this has been done now, it is no longer interesting.

is the album the pop record for OMM readers we've all been waiting for?

Ding ding ding!

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 16:51 (nineteen years ago)

I mean come on, FUCK THE AVERAGE POP FAN! (and I don't mean at one of your indie discos Matt)

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 16:51 (nineteen years ago)

that was ruder than I was going for...sorry!

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 16:52 (nineteen years ago)

Good cover of "Gold Digger" as well.

AAAARGH THE AUTOMATIC MUST DIE. NOW.

It's a little evocative of when people call Belle and Sebastian or Super Furry Animals "pop"

only a little?!

ronan is completely otm here, basically. my hatchet with popjustice is buried but this aesthetic just seems old and dated.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 17:18 (nineteen years ago)

are people denying there is a niche for this compilation or just lambasting the niche itself (and the comp for attempting to cater to it)?

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 17:22 (nineteen years ago)

Bit of both - and I disagree on both counts. I've played the comp 5 or 6 times over and have enjoyed it a lot, including the stuff I've heard dozens of times before. Whole > sum of parts.

― mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 17:26 (nineteen years ago)

I wouldn't call it a niche. More like a plughole?

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 17:27 (nineteen years ago)

the niche being 'trying to sell (indie-friendly idea of) Pop to indie kids', i suppose.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 17:29 (nineteen years ago)

It's not a niche, it's a massive market, as sales of Kylie and Scissor Sisters albums prove. The problem is, most of this stuff, especially the more obscure electro-girlpop is marketed mostly by waving it in front of indie kids and going "Look! Pop music you don't need to be embarassed by! It sounds a bit like Kraftwerk, see?" which is half-arsed at best.

I actually like most of the tracks I recognise on here (Ladytron is the exception) but really its an attempt to define an aesthetic that's a good couple of years out of date. Like making a manifesto for current dance music and sticking Drop The Pressure on there.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 17:33 (nineteen years ago)

not even anything to do with indie necessarily...

it just seems like the most lazy approximation of cool I can think of.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 17:34 (nineteen years ago)

what would a hard working approximation of cool look like?

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 17:37 (nineteen years ago)

to be fair i couldn't begin to imagine what i'd put on such a compilation which pop fans don't already have! but this is the difficulty with pop compilations: if people who want it don't already have it, it's NOT POP.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 17:41 (nineteen years ago)

must we endure this ENDLESS "omg the 80s" 4 years after electroclash.
I know that sounds elitist but sometimes it's just my fairly strong opinion that this has been done now, it is no longer interesting.

-- Ronan

I couldn't agree more! The slow march towards the early 90's ripping off because... well, what else is there to do but keep recycling? Is also totally predictable and just as depressing.

― brr (fandango), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 17:41 (nineteen years ago)

but this is the difficulty with pop compilations: if people who want it don't already have it, it's NOT POP.

The success of the entire Now! series disagrees with you.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 17:43 (nineteen years ago)

I like the idea of a cool/edgy version of 'Now!' series personally (this compilation isn't really that). 2 CDs of 40 or so tracks from the last 6 months that would include things like The Knife, good remixes of top 40 stuff, whoever is still making songs like Lacquer's 'Behind' if anyone, more non-British (!) electropop...that kind of thing is still and always will be (in) my bag (ipod)..altho perhaps it has run out of steam this year. but there aren't enough people like me to care about/buy that i guess - and yeah if we weren't so lazy/easily distracted/deterred we could compile (even mix) our own easily enough more often.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 17:50 (nineteen years ago)

Worth pointing out perhaps that Now! 1 had some seriously aged tracks on it too (maybe not as old as Annie tho)

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 17:57 (nineteen years ago)

songs which would have been better:

cassie - what do u want
ashlee simpson - boyfriend
paris hilton - not leaving without you
ti - what you know
ciara ft chamillionaire - get up
nelly furtado - say it right
beyoncé - freakum dress
the knife - we share our mother's health
cansei de ser sexy - let's make love and listen death from above
missy elliott ft ciara - lose control (jacques lu cont rmx)
kelis ft too $hort - bossy (switch rmx)
goldfrapp - slide in (dfa rmx)

older stuff which would fit quite well as reasonably unknown:

teairra marí - make her feel good
britney spears - before the goodbye
rex the dog - i look into mid-air

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 18:03 (nineteen years ago)

not that i'm suggesting that as an alternative, it seems better but not Better.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 18:04 (nineteen years ago)

what would a hard working approximation of cool look like?

I don't know, but I think there is something kind of disingenuous as the Lex pointed out about this "alternative" pop music thing.....

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 18:08 (nineteen years ago)

Yes there is - I like plenty of this music so I can't share your hostility to it (plus the longer the 80s revival lasts the better in my book) - but it's a slightly uneasy positioning.

I think I'd prefer a purer "Now That's What I Call Trendy" comp for lazy listeners/OMM readers, along the lines of Stevem's suggestion.

― Tom (Groke), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 18:12 (nineteen years ago)

that rihanna single blows. i will say again that it boggles my mind how anyone could take that sample and make it boring.

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 18:13 (nineteen years ago)

the trouble is to present a coherent manifesto of pop WITHOUT

-it consisting entirely of old songs which everyone has heard a thousand times
-or consisting entirely of new songs no one knows and will not buy
-or being this kind of wretched hodgepodge of ancient established pop hits, awful wimpy indiepop and one token r&b track

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 18:16 (nineteen years ago)

and it kind of strikes me that the great thing about pop-as-genre is that a coherent manifesto is actually impossible, unlike eg minimal house or southern hip-hop or any other rigidly defined genre.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 18:18 (nineteen years ago)

i once did make a double cd which was kind of like a pop manifesto but i did it for a couple of plan b writers who a) are fascinated by pop but b) have never heard any of it - so there was NO fear that they'd have played 'love machine' to death.

― The Lex (The Lex), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 18:19 (nineteen years ago)

the mind boggles at the idea of music writers who are 'fascinated by pop but have never heard of it'!!!!

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 09:54 (nineteen years ago)

the two questions being: what's to get fascinated by? and what the hell *are* they listening to?

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 09:54 (nineteen years ago)

Promos of indie bands

― Feargal Hixxy (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:03 (nineteen years ago)

right but i mean how do you avoid hearing pop music? i don't go out of my way to, but just through sheer osmosis, you know... this is the lex's crew i guess.

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:05 (nineteen years ago)

Don't listen to the radio or watch music TV. It's honestly not that difficult! As The Lex will agree, I think. Not desirable, per se, but quite easy if you work in the right office (or at home) before going to the pub or a toilet venue of an evening

― Feargal Hixxy (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:13 (nineteen years ago)

...and avoid shopping on the high street.

― braveclub (braveclub), Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:19 (nineteen years ago)

Feargal OTM. If I didn't make an effort to I wouldn't hear pop music - we don't have radios in the office, and I don't have freeview. Sure I hear it in shops but there's no indication as to what a song's called or who it's by, and you're thinking about other stuff when you're shopping, so the most you'll pick up is some vague impression ("music with beats seems popular this season")

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:21 (nineteen years ago)

Bearing in mind most indie hack types tend to listen to their own music on headphones.

I think people overestimate the ubiquity of pop music to those who aren't specifically looking to hear it. If you don't believe me, ask your parents/grandparents.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:24 (nineteen years ago)

and it's this level of non-involvement which makes it all the more fascinating to the people in question - a specific example, they heard pussycat dolls' 'don't cha' on the radio in a taxi, and told me that they were amazed by it because the narrator was such a horrible character, and yet clearly had mass appeal. (and they loved it.) i had not thought of the song in this way because my ears have become completely attuned to the language of sexual braggadocio in r&b - but they were right in that the 'don't cha' narrator IS particularly nasty!

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:34 (nineteen years ago)

(robin, the people in question are pil & galia, you may have guessed this)

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:34 (nineteen years ago)

a lot to unpack there. i think ima have a lie-down first.

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:35 (nineteen years ago)

lol at the idea of overcoming "wimpy indiepop" on a compilation by replacing it with Cancer Is Sexy

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:35 (nineteen years ago)

yeah but this is the one of the four css songs which are electro not indie

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:37 (nineteen years ago)

tried to post this last night but poxyfuling said no:

cansei de ser sexy - let's make love and listen death from above
missy elliott ft ciara - lose control (jacques lu cont rmx)

both of these were slated for inclusion at one point (i think - cansei def. were)

I think I'd prefer a purer "Now That's What I Call Trendy" comp for lazy listeners/OMM readers, along the lines of Stevem's suggestion.

tho it's worth empthasising that it's not wanted just so one can be kept abreast of what is trendy (if i wanted that i would be listening to actual current house/techno mixes) but because there's a genuine interest in whatever music falls into this marginalised sector (tracks structured in fairly conventional 'pop song' ways but v electronic/synthetic sounding for the most part), which it can actually be tough to keep track of because much of it ends up on the fringes of both the charts and actual well-supported (via clubs, DJs etc.) scenes.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:37 (nineteen years ago)

i actually really like playing proper pop music to plan b people because their reactions to it are so very odd, but can usually make me listen from a different angle as well (like that time the telegraph sent their opera correspondent to review bjork).

eg: looking up halfway through the rachel stevens album to exclaim "this music was really bizarre but now it's like the klf!"
eg2: standing in front of the stereo when ciara's 'goodies' was on, making weird jazz hands and saying really slowly "ohhh my gooodd, the textures"

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:48 (nineteen years ago)

How is that different from "It's OK to like "Crazy Chick", it was produced by the same guy that did "Take Me Out""?

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:51 (nineteen years ago)

Also it would be better if the 'this is pop' pretensions were dropped and it was just 'this is popJUSTICE manifesto' - obv. this compilation just represents one or two facets of Pop. if it represented more than that it would just be like a Now! comp with more mixing...so even more of a compromise. It seems that all attitudes to Pop now are cynical by default (Popworld, the dearth of dedicated magazines, a lot of the records themselves) but I'm not sure this compilation is particularly cynical.

Savage's notes inside could easily have come from Morley a couple of years ago (if not now), describing similar tracks from that point (like, er, 'Love Machine'), but he wasn't the only one doing that I suppose.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:52 (nineteen years ago)

eg: looking up halfway through the rachel stevens album to exclaim "this music was really bizarre but now it's like the klf!"

jesus it sounds like i.a. richards' 'practical criticism' lectures, only with people who've literally never listened to music before.

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:57 (nineteen years ago)

Every Little Thing sounds a bit like Doctorin' The Tardis but I don't think that's what Lex's friend was going for.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 16 November 2006 10:59 (nineteen years ago)

I'm surprised, you'd expect Plan B writers to be pretty spot on when it comes to discussing music.

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Thursday, 16 November 2006 11:04 (nineteen years ago)

ok, so it's acknowledged that making a compilation like this is strewn with contradictory pressures, but there still seems to be some underlying uneasiness with actually trying to do it in the first place. yes? and if you discount the pro-ish dj elitism and even the amateur "so yesterday"ness, what else is causing it?

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 11:40 (nineteen years ago)

My problem is mainly that making a "manifesto for contemporary pop" or trying to reflect the Popjustice brand or whatever, and then filling the album with tracks which are by and large two years old, suggests that PJ doesn't actually like contemporary pop music very much at all. Kind of 'shit, I can't think what else we like, let's just stick Some Girls on there'.

This may or may not be the case, but it certainly gives out a barrel-scraping signal to me and presumably to others.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 16 November 2006 11:45 (nineteen years ago)

if this was the 5th in a series i could see that objection. but as Tom sez about Now 1, there should be some latitude for "catch up, dear audience"

my main objection to this cd (FWIW), the inclusion of rub Franz Ferdinand (and less so, teh scissor sisters)

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 11:54 (nineteen years ago)

why would we discount those points?! anyway other than them:

1) a bit indigestible as a mix? i like the songs, even if they're overfamiliar. but as a run of tracks, especially mixed, i'm not feeling the idea at all. it maybe falls between stool (1): representing popjustice's kind of pop music and stool (2): being a workable mix. the um third stool is that isn't popjustice about the new?

2) why? now and MOS and 'rnb winter 2006' comps have a kind of 'harry smith' archiving function, they don't need jon savage to make their case for them. what is the reason for this record?

i haven't met peter robinson and i don't wish him ill but the fact it might make an ex-blogger happy isn't enough for me.

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 11:54 (nineteen years ago)

(and if it became the "popjustice annual" the constraint on track choice ramps up more of course)

x-post

why would we discount those points?? cos we've addressed them here. As a bonus they are unintersting/irrelevant to me personally (and mildly repellent).

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 11:58 (nineteen years ago)

this, funnily enough given that i mentioned omm, nails the problem pretty well for me -- hard to believe BT himself gave it four stars.

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:07 (nineteen years ago)

also "mildly repellant" wtf

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:08 (nineteen years ago)

(if we're not talking at x-purposes here) sorry, just a personal bias against music snobbery. but let's not let that get in the way, i'm interested in what this thread is poking at

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:15 (nineteen years ago)

People are being too negative about this I think.
Of the songs I've heard all are good (exception 'Monster') and a couple are amongst the best of the noughties. which gives me high hopes for the ones I haven't heard. You could probably fit me neatly into the OMM reader demographic, but there's no need to be sneery about us.

Also if "tracks structured in fairly conventional 'pop song' ways but v electronic/synthetic sounding for the most part" seems old hat, whats new, Where are the Popist people going now?

― Bidfurd (Bidfurd), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:17 (nineteen years ago)

it's not snobbery to feel a pop album isn't delivering the goods by being as bit stale in its choices.

but anyway i think the album taps a sort of self-consciousness among ilxors because -- although in sales terms it is utterly meaningless -- within the blogosphere ilx has been as a big a cheerleader for this "ipop" as PJ.

"tracks structured in fairly conventional 'pop song' ways but v electronic/synthetic sounding for the most part"

to be fair, he could be talking about 'tainted love' there.

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:19 (nineteen years ago)

yeah that is a variety of snobbery.

that BT review is l;argely +ve, but is stretching for something -ve to say, and doesn't say it. song with a great opening fits uneasily in a sequed mix. some artists now not as good as PSB's were. it's a short review and i wouldn't expect more, but i don't see it nailing anything.

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:23 (nineteen years ago)

Bidfurd the people on the Teenpop thread have been very interested in slightly rockier, gothier, confessional style stuff - the discussion's mostly led by XhucX and Frank K so it may reflect their concerns. But Lex is into some of that stuff too, and so am I.

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:23 (nineteen years ago)

"surely the essence of pop is enjoying the moment while we've got it?" is, while pretty obvious, apropos from that review.

i probably over-read the 'end of an era' comment he makes to stand for something; maybe it's because rachel stevens' album flopped and annie never hit that it feels like this compo sums up something which ended a while a go, but is being presented as something happening right now.

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:26 (nineteen years ago)

I suppose what you're getting at might be that you feel that the pop you love is being 'curated' which runs counter to how you feel it should be consumed. I've got no problem with this. I'm happy for someone else to listen to radio 1 and pick out the occasional good songs for me.

― Bidfurd (Bidfurd), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:27 (nineteen years ago)

you know i always forget that the rachel stevens album wasn't a massive succes :-(

how badly DID it do? (not to sidetrack things too much)

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:28 (nineteen years ago)

that's what music critics are supposed to do... but do we want them making cds of their pop picks? maybe we do.

xpost

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:28 (nineteen years ago)

Tom, from looking at the Poptimism livejournal thingy, the answer to 'what are the popists listening to now' seems to be old NOW albums. Retro Popism!

― Bidfurd (Bidfurd), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:31 (nineteen years ago)

i just have no urge to judge this comp other than on the quality of the tracks on it. so 71% then.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:32 (nineteen years ago)

Bidfurd, NOW! albums are for polling, not for actually listening to.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:32 (nineteen years ago)

making it as good as thriller or immaculate collection!

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:32 (nineteen years ago)

but not as good as 'Different Class'

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:34 (nineteen years ago)

Poptimists last.fm top 10:

1. Pet Shop Boys
2. Girls Aloud
3. Pulp
4. David Bowie
5. Belle and Sebastian
6. The Knife
7. New Order
8. Gorillaz
9. Johnny Cash
10. Rex the Dog

Popjustice last.fm top 10:

1. Girls Aloud
2. Sugababes
3. All Saints
4. Nelly Furtado
5. Madonna
6. Justin Timberlake
7. Kylie Minogue
8. Robbie Williams
9. The Killers
10. Beyoncé

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:38 (nineteen years ago)

on the failure of popist favourites like stevens and annie, is this cd PJ moving on the marketing of pop? taking the failed sneak and smash hits centred approach in to new avenues? popjustice has done quite well for itself in terms of publicity, whether this is down to media ppl liking this stuff, rather than a new segment of the gen pub, i don't know.

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:39 (nineteen years ago)

popjustice has nothing to do with "this stuff" shifting units. it probably has been a factor in media ppl being a bit mroe pop-tolerant.

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:51 (nineteen years ago)

The best thing about Probinson is that at least the go-to pop-writer for the broadsheets/MagazinesWithSpines is actually a pop fan. As opposed to go-to "urban" writers being safari suit wearing rich white girls, and go-to rock fans being people going "lol remember the white snakes they had big hair lol"

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:54 (nineteen years ago)

popjustice has nothing to do with "this stuff" shifting units.

i'm sure popjustice site has convinced one or two people to actually buy the music they're championing. only one or two tho. not six or nine.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:54 (nineteen years ago)

safari suit wearing rich white girls

hott

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:55 (nineteen years ago)

i'm sure popjustice site has convinced one or two people to actually buy the music they're championing. only one or two tho. not six or nine.

PJ has always been about preaching to the choir.

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:56 (nineteen years ago)

rich white girls can be real urban fans!

isn't PR kind of indie though? setting up a non-paying smash hits for a world that doesn't care. it was a fanzine, essentially. now it is paid publicity.

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:57 (nineteen years ago)

- You're Popists. You used to be in music criticism, You used to be big.
- we *are* big. It's the pop music that got small

― Bidfurd (Bidfurd), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:57 (nineteen years ago)

there's an element of evangelism in PJ's method

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:58 (nineteen years ago)

if this track listing is meant to be so indie why is "Do Something" on there?

Similou's "All This Love" is a great piece of 80sish house-pop. Lex you would like it, it's a bit like "A Public Affair". But I haven't heard the Drill Mix.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:58 (nineteen years ago)

rich white girls can be real urban fans!

Yeah, but they're not the only urban fans. Not that you'd know from reading the broadsheets.

"Crunk, a corruption of the words "crazy" and "drunk"..."

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:59 (nineteen years ago)

if this track listing is meant to be so indie why is "Do Something" on there?

Mark of respect for inspiring Muse.

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Thursday, 16 November 2006 12:59 (nineteen years ago)

Smash Hits became (always was?) 'paid publicity' too, but much less devoted to anything remotely 'indie' (unless you count McFly) post-Take That (so it seems)

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:00 (nineteen years ago)

I think Muse ('SMBH') were also among the potential inclusions

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:01 (nineteen years ago)

surely as a deliberate segue into the britney

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:05 (nineteen years ago)

plug! http://freakytrigger.co.uk/poptimism-podcast/2006/06/poptimism-lesson-three/

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:06 (nineteen years ago)

This thread is a masterclass in the narcissism of small differences.

The point of the P!J comp, it seems to me, is to act, along with the GA greatest hits, as a kind of mission statement for the new Polydor sublabel, Fascination. A bit like one of those old ZTT samplers.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:16 (nineteen years ago)

oo i never knew.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascination_Records
so gpwm!

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:30 (nineteen years ago)

Rachel Stevens hopes join Fascination in order to revive her career as a solo artist.

she songs make good and use internets to build fans base.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:33 (nineteen years ago)

Fascination dream signing: emo boyband produced by Xenomania.

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:35 (nineteen years ago)

My Chemistry Romance

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:38 (nineteen years ago)

I wish people would stop using the word "indie"

Something being bad does not equal it being "indie". And this comp is not "indie". Nor is it any other genre except perhaps INTERNET MUSIC.

It's just a cleansing of the charts to remove anything people might feel queasy about, or feel anything about, ie "uncool pop", violent sounding rap music, overly sincere rock music...etc

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:50 (nineteen years ago)

I don't know what I'd call the subculture of people who like this sort of comp...but I do think such a subculture exists...

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:50 (nineteen years ago)

Ronan, surely the reason people are using the word 'indie' is primarily as a standpoint to argue against? Mostly because you compared a lot of these acts to Belle and Sebastian and Super Furry Animals?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:52 (nineteen years ago)

Or at least the attitude surrounding them.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:52 (nineteen years ago)

As a matter of interest, what non-house music do you like these days? It's just occurred to me I have absolutely no idea.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

"uncool pop", violent sounding rap music, overly sincere rock music...etc

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:54 (nineteen years ago)

Britney Spears is INTERNET MUSIC now?

'I don't know what I'd call the subculture of people who like this sort of comp'

OMM readers? gay students? people actually made of straw? it's hard to bunch them all together

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:57 (nineteen years ago)

what non-house music do you like these days?

I asked Ronan this a while back and he said Dub.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:58 (nineteen years ago)

In fairness I didn't compare the acts themselves to those two. I said that calling this music pop is similar to the way people who like those acts call them "pop", ie an imagined ideal/prescription of/for pop.

x-post do you disagree with that Dom, I wasn't calling rap "violent sounding" or chart rock "overly sincere", I just think that is how this comp appears to filter the charts.

and another x-post to Matt I don't know why that matters really...but since you asked the last thing I listened to in the non dance field was John Cooper Clarke-Snap Crackle and Bop, yesterday.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:58 (nineteen years ago)

The Internet is for Pornp

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Thursday, 16 November 2006 13:59 (nineteen years ago)

x-post do you disagree with that Dom, I wasn't calling rap "violent sounding" or chart rock "overly sincere", I just think that is how this comp appears to filter the charts.

But it's an album designed to appeal and reflect the interests of the Popjustice readership, so I don't see how Westlife, E-40, and Nickelback would really fit into it. You may as well complain that Capital Gold's "Greatest Ballads of the 80s" CD doesn't have Sun Ra on it.

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:00 (nineteen years ago)

Well, that depends how arbitrary you think the word "pop" is.

As genres go it seems to be the only one which does suggest a certain boundary, and as words go it's more specific than "ballad".

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:02 (nineteen years ago)

Ronan, the only reason it matters is because if you're criticising this compilation then its useful to have a bit of a better handle on what you personally value in pop. Also I was just interested.

The 'prescriptivism for pop' angle is a fair point and one I agree with really. It's also a similar point to the one The Lex was making in rather more hysterical terms up until recently.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:02 (nineteen years ago)

I went to Popjustice club night a few weeks back. Do you want to speculate about what the clientele were like? I didn't ask if any of them felt they belonged to a subculture or read the OMM sadly. But yeah I do wonder how many of them have actually bought this compilation.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

"pop" and "Pop" are different things. Same as "punk" and "Pop" and, yeah, "dance" and "Dance". One's an attitude the other's a genre.

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

people actually made of straw? it's hard to bunch them all together

A bit of twine should do it.

― braveclub (braveclub), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

Do you want to speculate about what the clientele were like?

Good with colours, enjoyed shopping, didn't walk through puddles?

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:04 (nineteen years ago)

I am not seeing why 'prescriptivism for pop' is really a bad thing per se. Everyone wants to carve it up so they can distance themselves from Westlife or MCR songs. Not really a big deal.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:07 (nineteen years ago)

Well, that depends how arbitrary you think the word "pop" is.
As genres go it seems to be the only one which does suggest a certain boundary, and as words go it's more specific than "ballad".

I'd argue the opposite, at least you can count on a ballad being slow.

― braveclub (braveclub), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

I am not seeing why 'prescriptivism for pop' is really a bad thing per se. Everyone wants to carve it up so they can distance themselves from Westlife or MCR songs

And "chavs", you forgot chavs!

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:10 (nineteen years ago)

the word i've just realised captures why a lot of this album is quite bad is that so much of it is ARCH.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:13 (nineteen years ago)

Heaps of good things are arch - let's not pretend that we've only now discovered that Pet Shop Boys are a formative influence on PopJustice. This comp doesn't interest me but I don't understand how it can be considered bad when it has so many good songs on it (ha ha including Franz!)

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:15 (nineteen years ago)

Haha surely the music itself is of secondary or tertiary importance here Tim!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:15 (nineteen years ago)

In other words if you think the compilation is trying to "define an aesthetic" then it's a valid line of argument to dislike that aesthetic even if you like a lot of its component parts.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

I mean criticise, not dislike.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:18 (nineteen years ago)

If PSB were more of an influence the comp might not be so middle of the road.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:18 (nineteen years ago)

i think jerry straight pwned this thread.

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:19 (nineteen years ago)

how about the popjustice crew, the poptimists cru and the guitly pleasures crew just have a big fight or a dance off or something to decide who wins pop.

there was a bit about "anti-rockism" i read in plan b (in borders, quickly) it made no sense whatsoever.

― pscott (elwisty), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:20 (nineteen years ago)

can we have a FITE instead?

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:21 (nineteen years ago)

(i think poptimists and popjustice would unite against the common foe in that one anyway)

― Britain's Obtusest Shepherd (Alan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:22 (nineteen years ago)

there was a bit about "anti-rockism" i read in plan b (in borders, quickly) it made no sense whatsoever.

-- pscott (kowalski9...), November 16th, 2006.

i honestly wonder if its readers know what the fuck its writers are on about.

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:22 (nineteen years ago)

i keep wanting to call chavs 'lenks'. it's a mystery.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:23 (nineteen years ago)

Do people think this compilation does a good job of representing the aesthetic of the Popjustice website?

― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:24 (nineteen years ago)

the gap in quality between the many people featured on 100% Solid Pop Music who would dearly love to be the Pet Shop Boys (Client, the Similou, Stefy) and the ones who actually are (who contribute a lovely new version of 'It's a Sin') yawns somewhat ominously

this sentence from the review nrq linked to nails it.

psb good. forming an entire aesthetic based on trying vainly to recapture what psb were like = REALLY REALLY BAD AND AWFUL.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:25 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah it remains valid to criticise, but without any real objections to the music it seems like such a puny basis upon which to launch an attack. This comp is kinda patchy and old in places, yeah, but why get worked up? The tracklisting makes me think of reading Popjustice, basically.

x-post!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:26 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah it remains valid to criticise, but without any real objections to the music it seems like such a puny basis upon which to launch an attack.

there are objections to the music! the music is either old and overplayed, or crap!

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:27 (nineteen years ago)

Similou are not at all based around The Pet Shop Boys! That's like saying Mylo is trying to be New Order.

"there are objections to the music! the music is either old and overplayed, or crap!"

I guess it's harder for me to see the first half of your objection because the only Australian hit in the tracklisting is "S.O.S."

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:32 (nineteen years ago)

if this kinda of thing is what passes for MOR now, i don't think i mind that at all.

surely the idea is that it takes pop as close to the edge as you can whilst still retaining some semblance of pop 'attitude' or aesthetic, AND remaining popular.

you can scoff at that but nobody is actually making anything actually as aloof yet keenly pop as a '06 version of 'Close To The Edge' or 'West End Girls' - are they?

forming an entire aesthetic based on trying vainly to recapture what psb were like = REALLY REALLY BAD AND AWFUL.

why so bad? if someone was actually capable of doing it really well surely this would be good? bearing in mind the past will always be revisited/recycled.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:32 (nineteen years ago)

'sos' is more crap than old & overplayed.

its presence reveals that this is a cd for people who believe the arrant nonsense that 'sos' is rihanna's best single.

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

'Close To The Edge'

i mean 'Edit' sorry. emulating Yes should be avoided in this situation (OR SHOULD IT?)

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:33 (nineteen years ago)

With a comp, aren't objections to the window of music it chooses to expose just as important?

I guess it DOES express the Pop Justice aesthetic quite well, but I think some are saying, this aesthetic is dying or becoming stale.

When I first began posting here it was quite shocking and interesting and occasionally infuriating to read people talking about manufactured pop being good.

But that was say, 4 years ago. Now a lot of the music on that comp doesn't feel very different from the sort of middlebrow that it seems (seemed?) to rail against. Just as contrived, just as caught up in notions of authenticity.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:34 (nineteen years ago)

just as important as criticisms of the music itself...I meant

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:34 (nineteen years ago)

if someone was actually capable of doing it really well surely this would be good?

in the meantime we are not so desperate for fantastic pop that we have to pay any attention whatsoever to the legions of idiots who are doing it really badly!

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:34 (nineteen years ago)

I can't think of anyone who is actually trying to sound like the Pet Shop Boys (at any point of their career).

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:37 (nineteen years ago)

So main objections to this album:

1. It isn't Lex's personal playlist
2. Saying that you like the music on this album won't get people's jaws dropping in shock, irregardless of whether you like the music or not.

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:38 (nineteen years ago)

yes, that and all the other objections already stated.

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:41 (nineteen years ago)

ok, if PJ were more Lex-friendly and had plumped for r'n'b over electro-y pop -- would the inclusion of 'dip it low' not seem a little, well, weird, this end of 2006?

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

Now a lot of the music on that comp doesn't feel very different from the sort of middlebrow that it seems (seemed?) to rail against. Just as contrived, just as caught up in notions of authenticity.

If you take all the tracks on this comp together what is actually LEFT to rail against in Pop? Or is it just railing against (the popularity/media bias towards) guitar-based MOR (thom, blunt, razorlight, coldplay)? If the latter this seems reasonable (i hate that stuff and think this stuff is better) - but this comp could be played at a party whereas a comp ft. those bands presumably isn't. So that comparison and setting up a rivalry between them only goes so far I guess.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

I think whether it's "shocking and interesting and occasionally infuriating to read people talking about manufactured pop being good" at any given time is totally a matter of subjective perception.

4 years ago lots of people were complaining the Destiny's Child et. al. were too much accepted by the critical establishment... But those people were perhaps people whose own shock and infuriation occurred circa 1998/1999?

I sometimes wonder if the solidification of a Popjustice aesthetic at this point (c. 2002) was almost a reaction to the way in which, around about that time, "pop" was critically acceptable as long as it was futuristic R&B.

Lex can correct me if I'm wrong but I get the impression that part of his issue with Popjustice is the way it presents the shoe as now being on the other foot: Xenomania are the standard-bearers for pop, R&B is sidelined.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:48 (nineteen years ago)

Lex's criticisms of 'S.O.S.' are, to me, akin to complaining about a fire engine being blue (I agree that it is not her best song tho).

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:50 (nineteen years ago)

we could rail against COUNTRY!

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:50 (nineteen years ago)

I wouldn't be adverse to the conclusion that there is a use-by-date for any Idealisation of Pop, a natural limit to its capacity to keep abreast with actually-existing-pop, which marches ahead blindly and unpredictably and not in formation. But the notion that Popjustice may now be witnessing the decline of its aesthetic isn't enough for me to put them or this compilation into the "enemy" camp, any more than the surreal tardiness of appearances of 2003/2004 grime tracks on grime comps would vis a vis grime.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:52 (nineteen years ago)

i have never liked Country more than i do lately (still not listening to it much tho)

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:52 (nineteen years ago)

But the notion that Popjustice may now be witnessing the decline of its aesthetic isn't enough for me to put them or this compilation into the "enemy" camp, any more than the surreal tardiness of appearances of 2003/2004 grime tracks on grime comps would vis a vis grime.

the difference is that the PJ aesthetic is by definition about very well-known bits of music, and failed versions of same.

grime comps are more justified in that the music was barely heard at all when new.

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 14:55 (nineteen years ago)

But the notion that Popjustice may now be witnessing the decline of its aesthetic isn't enough for me to put them or this compilation into the "enemy" camp

Well...in this case the decline of its aesthetic kinda equals said aesthetics acceptance doesn't it? I mean once we know what that aesthetic is is it not kind of over?

I don't think Pop Justice are necessarily to blame, but when I see comps like this, in whatever genre, I think, possibly due to the fact I used to work in a shop, "ugh I am going to get asked for this comp for the next 5 years", I don't like these kind of alternative populist compilations, it's like if half the people who bought them made any effort to check out new music they would have all these tracks already.

That might sound snobby or whatever but why apologise for people not bothering with stuff until it is spammed into their brains.

(Oh yes I forgot to say earlier, I love Chamillionaire)

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 15:00 (nineteen years ago)

Spammed into their brains with a trendy website label on the cover....I wish people would have the confidence to like things without them needing to become part of some aesthetic first...

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 15:01 (nineteen years ago)

pointless to compare this to grime comps i think, but this comp is at least giving people some things they probably won't have heard before. if it was 100% new and unheard, that seems like a bigger risk commercially.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 15:01 (nineteen years ago)

and it would fly in the face of the whole concept of popjustice.

― benrique (Enrique), Thursday, 16 November 2006 15:03 (nineteen years ago)

it's like if half the people who bought them made any effort to check out new music they would have all these tracks already.

That might sound snobby or whatever but why apologise for people not bothering with stuff until it is spammed into their brains.

why should EVERYONE make the effort anyway? how did people manage before the internet? they looked to tv, radio and press and they'd go into music stores and buy blind more (actually this may be a constant altho there is more to choose from now so it's probably more overwhelming). what does 'making the effort' entail now anyway? esp. re Pop.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 15:05 (nineteen years ago)

"I don't think Pop Justice are necessarily to blame, but when I see comps like this, in whatever genre, I think, possibly due to the fact I used to work in a shop, "ugh I am going to get asked for this comp for the next 5 years""

Okay I can imagine how that would be very annoying. I can't really imagine that happening, but again, Popjustice and the kind of pop it profiles both have such a low profile over here that maybe my perspective is totally skewed. For me it almost is like grime - you can't get copies of What Will The Neighbours Say or Come & Get It for less than about $45! (that's almost 20 pounds)

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 16 November 2006 15:08 (nineteen years ago)

i think the going rate in the uk for come and get it is about £1

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 16 November 2006 15:12 (nineteen years ago)

yes, chamillionaire is brilliant ronan!

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 16 November 2006 15:12 (nineteen years ago)

it's because it had a low profile....remember, I worked in the music store in an URBAN OUTFITTERS, hence my hatred of affluent faintly trendy middle classers.......LIKE MYSELF.

Steve...it's very little effort, read some music sites, take an interest, take control of what you are buying. I mean I'm not saying I don't just "consume" with stuff I buy, I do plenty, but with books/music at least you can try and control your own course even a little.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 15:14 (nineteen years ago)

"i think the going rate in the uk for come and get it is about £1"

HMV has some explaining to do then. Lex send me some copies and I will hawk them for $20 Australian dollars and send you half back!

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 16 November 2006 15:18 (nineteen years ago)

Will you then use the money to buy expensive thongs?

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 16 November 2006 15:19 (nineteen years ago)

the uk cognoscenti know that the best r stevens deals are to be found in OXFAM rather than HMV!

― The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 16 November 2006 15:25 (nineteen years ago)

No, formerly expensive thongs now sell for $1 since minimal got big - I will send thongs back in the mail to Lex so he can sell them to all the people buying the Popjustice album.

x-post - there is no such thing as "r stevens deals" in Oz.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 16 November 2006 15:27 (nineteen years ago)

Not to mention all million-selling r'n'b (90's & 00's)

― brr (fandango), Thursday, 16 November 2006 15:29 (nineteen years ago)

read some music sites, take an interest, take control of what you are buying.

i don't think this is completely at odds with the idea of someone buying this sort of compilation. i probably wouldn't have bought this compilation either and obv. i do read music sites and take an interest but i don't mind this comp being out there at all and i still want a Now That's What I Call Edgy Pop in the meantime.

my Wu-Tang greatest hits CD came in the post today. why did i buy this only now (or indeed at all)? and why did i buy the Electric Boutique compilation?

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 16 November 2006 16:05 (nineteen years ago)

Despite already owning 11 of the 22 tracks, plus another 4 in different versions, I was still motivated to buy this CD, and I've still derived pleasure from it. I guess it's because I wanted to hear them in the context into which the compilation has placed them, in the running order in which they have been mixed, and in full CD quality rather than sub-optimal MP3 quality.

I guess that also, as a long-time reader of Popjustice, I wanted a physical souvenir of the experience. I say "souvenir" because I'm taking less interest in the site now than I used to, and so maybe there's a touch of instant nostalgia about some of the older choices.

― mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Thursday, 16 November 2006 16:39 (nineteen years ago)

I wonder what the market would be for a Church Of Me compilation CD.

*deploys handily-situated calculator*

about a dozen, then...

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 16 November 2006 16:49 (nineteen years ago)

eight months pass...

DIE COOL POP MUSIC DIE

you're so rockist! the PopJustice compilation is awesome. I would never have heard of Justice without it.

― The Real Dirty Vicar, Monday, 13 August 2007 12:06 (eighteen years ago)

The Automatic are rubbish, though.

― The Real Dirty Vicar, Monday, 13 August 2007 12:06 (eighteen years ago)

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