Herbie Hancock

some hidden funk and a killer jazz stomp

Harvey Mason on Shiftless Shuffle makes eyes pop out.

Also, of course search EVERYTHING he did w/ Miles.

I love that story of his "audition" for Miles.

What's that story, I forget?

When Bill Evans—we sometimes called him Moe—first got with the band, he was so quiet, man. One day, just to see what he could do, I told him, "Bill, you know what you have to do, don't you, to be in this band?"

He looked at me all puzzled and shit and shook his head and said, "No, Miles, what do I have to do?"

I said, "Bill, now you know we all brothers and shit and every­body's in this thing together and so what I came up with for you is that you got to make it with everybody, you know what I mean? You got to fuck the band." Now, I was kidding, but Bill was real serious, like Trane.

He thought about it for about fifteen minutes and then came back and told me, "Miles, I thought about what you said and I just can't do it, I just can't do that. I'd like to please everyone and make every­one happy here, but I just can't do that."

I looked at him and smiled and said, "My man!" And then he knew I was teasing.

there was a great thread on the Summer sounding Disco/R&B/Jazz corssover stuff that began with that incredible INCREDIBLE hancock album.

Mike: How much do you practice a day?
Herbie: Maybe 3 or 4 hours
Mike: Really, that's all?
Herbie: I had this piano student once, and the kid used to practice like 10 hours a day, but he STUNK!
Mike: Even practicing 10 hours a day huh?
Herbie: No, I mean he STUNK! The kid never took showers!

Survival of the Fittest (Arista, 1975). Essential as oxygen.

I wonder if Magic Windows is worth checking out, it seems to be in the same mold as this one.

I finally got Mwandishi, and I'm enjoying it a lot. The first track has a killer complex groove, whereas the second two are more slow and floaty, ambient even, kinda reminiscent of the Eddie Henderson albums where the Mwandishi band played. I realized that the reason I don't like Henderson albums as much as the Herbie ones, even though the players are mostly the same, is that Julian Priester is missing on the Henderson albums. His trombones gave the Mwandishi band the sonic deep end without which it doesn't sound quite as good.

Not into any pre-"Head Hunters" stuff, but I have been digging into some of his later 70s albums and there is some great underrated stuff there. "Thrust", "Man-Child", "Secrets", "Sunlight", "Direct Step". And, yes, "Mr. Hands" too. And the stuff from "Rock It" until "Perfect Machine" is of course ace, and his best ever. He has seemed to lose it afterwards though.

Btw. does anyone know if "Mr. Hands" (the title) was influenced by "Weather Report's "Mr. Gone" from a couple years before?

man...i really hated herbies last few albums....but i do love his 60s and 70s work. used to have manchild on a cassette and listen all the time. his solo on chameleon is so good

The newest one is pretty good I think.

Has anyone heard the hip-hop album he made in 1993, Dis Is Da Drum? Some friend of mine had it back in the 90s, and I remember liking it, but I haven't heard it since.

I'm sitting at home with a flu, and I just put on Lite Me Up, and today it's sounding really good to me. So well-mannered and smooth and nice. I guess some people would say it's lacking an edge, but why should all music sound edgy? I've been listening to a lot of early 80s R&B/urban contemporary exactly because it's often decidedly non-edgy and non-raw, and I think that's a perfectly valid and often interesting approach to R&B. As Lite Me Up proves.

Nice live version of Chameleon over at Destination Out.

http://www.destination-out.com/media/tracks/Hancock_Chameleon.mp3

Well then.

Let's talk about Lord Xenu, Ned.

A vision!

(I am rather glad I was wrong about him being a Scientologist, that had depressed me.)

He was/is a Buddhist, I think. But unlike many of his jazz contemporaries, I don't see that big a sprititual or religious influence in his music, he's always seemed rather down-to-earth.

Oh, I just read he won the Best Album Grammy this year. Congrats for him! Has anyone actually heard the new album, is it good? It seems to have gotten quite good reviews, but since I have little interest in Joni Mitchell, I hadn't really thought of buying it.

The River is close to great. It deserves a million grammys. or not, i don't know what makes an album the best album of the year ... but it is good -- even if you're not super into Joni, there's some great playing from Hancock and Wayne Shorter ... And the guest appearances are actually pretty solid -- Tina Turner brings it! It's certainly better than a lot of the latter day Hancock I've heard.

We really need to do a thread on his post-Headhunters, pre-Laswell electronici funk records with the vocoders and shit. It's like a whole world exists there.

Out of those albums, I think only Sunlight and Mr. Hands are really essential. (And even with Mr. Hands you have to be able to like its rather, er, soft 80s sound in order to appreciate it.) The rest of them usually have one or two great tracks, but the rest is not spectacular. I think Herbie was trying a bit too hard to appeal to the popular taste of that era, so the sound and the arrangements on those albums are often kinda too polished and neat.

the death wish soundtrack is pretty amazing, isn't it?

Mr. Hands is really amazing.

Recently got "Feets Don't Fail Me Now", and it's wonderful.

Barely a mention of Sextant? It's such a spectacular album that every so often I just put it on, sit down and go "wow" for 40 minutes. Back in school many years ago, I structured an essay on Macbeth around the opening track (I'd been reading the Wire too much and thought that tenuous connections were the basis for art criticism). My English teacher didn't like it much.

pretty sure if you look around ilx, there has been about a fuck-ton of sextant love

tenuous connections are the basis for artmaking
(xpost)

Death Wish SNDTRK rules, no doubt
(xxxpost)

Yeah, there's plenty of Sextant love on other threads. It won the Herbie album poll we had:

Best Herbie Hancock (As Leader) Album Poll of 1960s/70s/80s era.

And it was the only Herbie album to place in the ILM alternate 1970s poll:

TURN THIS MUTHA OUT! It's the Alternate 1970s Albums Poll on ILX — Results Thread

For me, it's pretty much favourite album of all time.

"my favourite album of all time"

blecch, this sounds awful (and I liked the river)
The Imagine Project
An all-star effort from Herbie Hancock -- like his previous record, a set that's filled with guest appearances from really dynamic range of talents! This collaborative change in Herbie's later years is a real surprise, and it's definitely helped him explore music with the sort of freedom to genre-step that he had back in the 70s -- maybe not as cutting edge as in those days, but still surprisingly strong at the core. India Arie sings on a version of "Imagine", which also features Konono and Jeff Beck; John Legend and Pink sing on "Don't Give Up"; Ceu is on "Tempo De Amor"; The Chieftains play on "The Times They Are A Changing"; Los Lobos and Tinariwen are on "Tamatant Tilay/Exodus", Dave Matthews sings and plays on "Tomorrow Never Knows"; James Morrison guests on "A Change Is Gonna Come", and Chaka Khan, Wayne Shorter, and Anoushka Shankar all appear on "The Song Goes On"

That sounds made up.

Yeah, sounds pretty terrible. I'm not sure why Herbie has been so keen on making these kind of "eclectic" all-star albums during the last years - is it just for the cash, or does he genuinely believe they're musically worthy? The tune he made with Chaka Khan on Future 2 Future was dope though, maybe their new collab is worth listening too...

yeah, you wonder how these things are put together? does his manager just say, oh yeah, Pink, she's like the new janis joplin and herbie's like "whatever"?

Btw, why hasn't anyone written a proper biography of Herbie? Or at least I've never come across one. You'd think such an important and controversial figure in jazz would deserve his own book? The only Herbie book I know of is the one that's about Head Hunters only; it's okay, but kinda overtly theoretic.

is his life not very interesting, at least aside from music? (not that that would stop a bio from being written ...)

Maybe so. Its just that I realized he's one of my favourite musicians ever, but I know hardly anything about him as a person, except that he's is/was a Buddhist... and apparently he's quite nice in real life? I dunno, even if he hasn't lived a rock star life, it'd be nice to read about his thoughts and experiences.

Another musician I really love who has apparently never had a biography written about him is Curtis Mayfield... Who, from what I've gathered, was also a nice and gentle person. Is it so that nice musicians are not good book material?

i dunno, i'm sure there's a good book about both of those dudes somewhere in there, even if they weren't crazy/drunk/high, etc. I mean, I'd love a good analysis of herbie's various stages/phases, along with maybe how each phase fit into the music of the time/pop culture of the time. might not be a straight bio, but his career overall is a pretty fascinating one.

Yeah, I'd definitely read a book like that. The Head Hunters book was trying to do something like what you're describing, but it was only about that one album.

Another musician I really love who has apparently never had a biography written about him is Curtis Mayfield...

i read a pretty dreadful curtis biog a few years back - the extent to which the author dwelled on differences between labels on specific pressings of curtis LPs was intolerable. would love to read a great one too.

That sounds made up.

― _Rudipherous_, Monday, June 21, 2010 3:58 PM Bookmark

We should have an invent-the-next-Herbie-Collabo-album thread.

Apparently Sony is putting together a 35-disc box of Herbie's entire Columbia output. I don't think I need that, but maybe someone here does.

hey looks like there *is* a book coming out about the mwandishi years: http://www.electricsongs.com/mwandishimusic/

That sounds interesting! I's still like someone to write an overall look of Herbie's career and life though, not just one phase of it.

There was a great article about the Mwandishi group in the Wire many years ago, all I can remember of it is that they were constantly broke and they played some epic live jams. Must dig it out again if I can find it.

I always thought Herbie was kind of under-lionized, probably just because his life story doesn't have the drama or weirdness of a Trane/Miles/Mingus/Monk/Bird type figure.

This youtube of Herbie Hancock showing Quincy Jones the Fairlight CMI has been making me unreasonably happy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6QsusDS_8A

(there's a clip in the "related videos" sidebar of him showing it to some kids on Sesame Street too, which is also making me happy, but is less srs business for srs thread)

so awesome, both those videos

"metal beat" offa "sound system" is one of the most deliriously deranged mutant funk jams ever - scarred for life by this when i boughht "sound system" on cassette as a teenager looking for breakdancing jams like "rockit"

Yeah, I was just listening Sound-System yesterday, and realized for the first time that "Metal Beat" doesn't even have a proper melody - just some simple basslines and relentless beats. Even though electro was always heavy on the beat, most electro singles (including "Rockit") did have hummable melodies, whereas "Metal Beat" only has the spine of a rhythm.

"Hardrock", on the other hand, sounds like a pretty shameless attempt to produce a new "Rockit".

i love the way the scratching is relentlessly crappy throughout. chuffachuffachuffachuffa - i'm guessing the majority of it is a scratch sample in a fairlight or summat. love those art of noise metal gong orchestral stabs, tho.

just watched the elvis costello spectacle show w/ herbie. fun stuff! on netflix instant now. for a guy who's over 70, herbie is aging really well--looked younger than elvis anyway. he also seems like a genuinely nice guy -- if anyone in the music world could get away with having a cooler-than-thou attitude, it'd be him. but he comes across as a chill guy who enjoys music, trying different stuff, reaching new audiences, etc.

have loved head hunters forever. just bought maiden voyage at salzer's on the strength of ilm rec's. pretty amazing. it is a weird progression to go head hunters -> maiden voyage, though

every album should prbly have a blue note-esqe commentary on the back btw

I live near the pacific ocean, and the last 2 vinyl purchases are "Fred Neil" and "Maiden Voyage." The sea's influence no doubt

man, is this good. I need to check that ~best jazz albums poll~ thread and see if this made it. was distracted over crimbus break by all that back and forth over 'spiritual hat'

Anyone pick up the book by Bob Gluck about the Mwandishi era? Bout a third of the way through and it's pretty great so far...

(crickets)

anyway it's really good

I liked that book. I was surprised how fast the Mwandishi thing happened and how quickly it was over. Gluck is good on the music and also on the (somewhat depressing) business side.

must give endless thanks to tylerw for pointing me in the direction of inventions and dimensions some time ago, have been really quite obsessed with it ever since

Oh weird, Gluck teaches at the school literally one block away from me. I've seen him play a few times, really good stuff. I'll have to check out that book.

hmm, it'd have to be damn well-written for me to want to read an entire book on mwandishi

izzat warner brothers (incl fat albert), as on the album-threefer for that era, or just mwandishi?

Hurting - it covers quite a bit of ground, including Herbie's involvement with Donald Byrd and Miles, and touches on stuff that led up to the Mwandishi era like Maiden Voyage (which I actually prefer to anything he did with the Mwandishi band). Some deep analysis of a lot of (pre-Mwandishi) tunes and Herbie's general style, very thorough, if a tad academic in places. Sorta like a less intimidating version of the Robin Kelly book on Monk in that its very short on anything resembling gossip, but long on analysis (and hyperbole, natch). I'm a little over halfway through and I've been sorta savoring it at this point.

Inventions and Dimensions is such a neat record.

otm
just saw this is coming out
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81-oyN38flL._SL1500_.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Columbia-Collection-Herbie-Hancock/dp/B003M3UJIK/?tag=smarturl-20

it is expensive

It's definitely not as cheap as some of the complete album collections coming out, but this does look like a great collection of music.

I've got most of the earlier funky Hancock records on Colombia. The thing that catches my eye is the eight Japanese releases, some of which are some more traditional jazz group setups. The trio record with Ron Carter and Tony Williams is one I would definitely like to hear.

The Japan only-album with the Kimiko Kasai is very cool, nice to see that it's included. It has some nice & soulful vocal arrangements of Herbie's 70s jazz-funk tunes, and Kasai is a surprisingly good in interpreting those. The price for the comp is awfully steep though, especially considering that nowadays you can buy most of Herbie's Columbia albums like 5 bucks a piece (i.e. for less than their price-per-disc is on the compilation).

read herbie's autobio a couple weekends back -- pretty good stuff, though there were definitely parts i wish were longer (and other parts I wish were shorter).
*spoiler*
the period where he's addicted to crack in the 90s is bizarre! and a bummer! just really at odds w/ pretty much everything else in the book... but i'm glad he seems to have made it out of all that intact.

wtf Herbie was on crack?! has every awesome black musician of a certain age been on crack at some point?

yeah he doesn't really give the exact timeline, but it seems like a good portion of the 90s he was addicted. i had always thought of him as a generally clean living kind of dude.

That's nuts. I had no idea. Didn't seem to affect his profile or sales much, though.

doesn't seem like anyone knew about it at the time (not even his family) and the autobio is the first time he's gone public about it.
but yeah, he was fairly productive even w/ the addiction it seems.

I just feel like I've read a bunch of bios over the years where it turns out some hugely influential black musician had some down-n-out crack problem period (usually well after their commercial heyday) - Fred Wesley, George Clinton (ok here I was just more surprised at the *length* of the period tbf), etc.

and then there was The One chronicling JB's ultra-depressing final decades on the sherm

how's Al Green, did he manage to stay off the crack?

Maybe Herbie made it up.

"Man, this is a boring book...I come off like the Ned Flanders of jazz. Wait, I know! I'll just sprinkle a little crack addiction here...yeah, the 90s...that'll work...this is gold!"

haha i mean it almost comes across like that -- otherwise the last third of the book would be like "hey i made a record w/ christina aguilera singing on it i guess that was ok. won a grammy! cool."

He's definitely not high on the list of jazz musicians I would have expected to have a crack addiction.

I usually think of him as a guy that disproves the theory that a musician has to be crazy and/or drug-addled and/or unhappy to be interesting.

I have a hard time imagining Hancock drinking a glass of red wine much less a drug problem.

might've been tough to be anywhere in the LA music bizzzz in the late 70s/80s w/o getting pretty into cocaine

True, I just think of him as being such a dork

Matt Shipp reviewed Hancock's book for The Talkhouse; what he has to say is actually really interesting.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fFTt8VZ5V1I/T8V1YL0ugVI/AAAAAAAACEw/Tpqqfwv2jbA/s1600/Hancock_Herbie-_MrBonzai.jpg
he does pretty much cop to being a super geek in the book.

Thanks for posting that Shipp piece! and looking good Herbie!

yes, good write-up!

^^^

Well, looky here:

http://www.vulture.com/2014/10/herbie-hancock-my-battle-with-crack.html

interesting that they promoted headhunters as "improvised rock"
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CX4x020WwAA2dIh.png:large
(this may have been an ad that showed up in Creem or Rolling Stone, I don't know)

And that they find it spacey? always sounded p grounded, physical, urban, sweaty to me. I dunno, maybe it is psychish...

yeah compared to sextant, it's definitely more grounded... maybe they thought prog-funk wouldn't get the rockers interested

The "improvised rock" bit funny considering Head Hunters is notable among crossover fusion albums for having no guitars on it. But I would assume the synths on it would've sounded pretty spacey... I think "Chameleon" is among the first notable pop tunes to have a synth bass play the main hook. Obviously it isn't as spacey as the Mwandishi albums that preceded it, but I doubt many of the people who saw this ad had heard them. AFAIK they sold pretty poorly, they've only become regarded as classics posthumously.

"would've sounded pretty spacey to Rolling Stone readers "

hey Tuomas, would you recommend a good book on Herbie Hancock/jazz in general? I get the impression you're well-read

Herbie's autobiography that came out a couple of years ago ("Possibilities") is quite good, there's some talk about it upthread. There's also a book-length analysis of Head Hunters (the album) called "Head Hunters: the Making of Jazz's First Platinum Album", which is okay, but it has a lot of music theory, so you might want to skip those bits if that's not your thing. And then there's the book by Bob Gluck focusing on the Mwandishi era ("You'll Know When You Get There: Herbie Hancock and the Mwandishi Band") which I haven't read yet (I should!), but some comments about it upthread too.

Cool, thanks!

Anyway, speaking of Herbie's futurism, I think it's a crucial fact that he was always a gear-head and tech nerd, as the autobioraphy makes abundantly clear... He was actually a studying engineering as well as music at the university, and the book has bits like him geeking out for several paragraphs for having seen an experimental prototype of one of the first laptops back in the 1970s. He also talks a lot about instruments like the Fairlight CMI and how they changed the musical landscape.

Anyway, my point is that while a some piano players (like Chick Corea or Stanley Cowell) turned to electronic keyboards and synths when it was hip to do so in the early 70s, only to abandon them when the became unfashionable again by the 80s (when the Young Lions started disparaging fusion in gerenal), Herbie just got deeper into them. The Mwandishi band was arguably the first band to successfully integrate synth textures into jazz music in way that wasn't merely ornamental of novelty-ish, and by 1980 Herbie was confident enough to have a track on Mr. Hands where every instrument (including the drums and guitar) is played by him on synths. The track itself may sound cheesy today, but at that point few musicians who had first found their fame in traditional acoustic music had gone that far in electronics.

So while Herbie himself admits in autobio that "Rockit" and Future Shock were mostly Laswell/Material projects he was attached to, I'd say he was pretty much the only major jazz musician open enough to the possibilities of sampling/DJing opened up by electro and rap music to pull it through. And it's not like he forgot all that when the Laswell collab ended, since he returned to rap and electronic music with Dis is da Drum and Future 2 Future.

It's only in the 00s that Herbie eased into an elder statesman position, playing mostly older music (though not jazz standards rather than famous tunes from other genres) and mostly on trad keyboards. But since he is already in his 70s, I can accept it, even though his post- Future 2 Future albums have not interested me that much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogKDBbi2thA

god i love Mr. Hands

one of the coolest album covers ever btw

So this is what's next for Herbie

http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/hip-hop/6913509/terrace-martin-producing-yg-herbie-hancock-albums

I've been playing with him every day -- which is very weird, that I play keyboard next to Herbie every day, a very weird thing. I try to be cool, since I'm "the producer" and everything, but then he throws these things at you harmonically, and you have to catch 'em! He is 75, and his ideas -- they're like he's 12 years old. They keep coming every second of the day.

I work with him five days a week. We usually start about 12 or 1 p.m. and I'm done about 5. That's a five-hour session. When I work with a rapper, I can do 15, 20 hours and not be tired. When I leave Herbie's, I'm exhausted. My brain is exhausted -- he stretches my brain so much that I have to leave his house, take a three-hour nap, and then go to work with YG.

...The album I'm doing with him, it's not what you think: Kendrick is on the album, Snoop is on the album. It's not like it's just Herbie Hancock over a hip-hop beat. It's like, I'm really digging into his world, and he's digging into the hip-hop, and we're just trying to figure out a thing. In the process of us trying to figure it out, something is happening magically through the music. Something that I've never heard and he's never heard. Kendrick came over the other day and he was like, "Yo, I hear so many ideas." We're just going in all different directions.

That sounds great!

Yes

https://youtu.be/Bwpn4DlOxac

this Herbie inspired album by Lionel Loueke is nice

The Terrace Martin produced album he was working on never came out

Inventions and Dimensions is such a neat record.

― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Saturday, September 14, 2013 9:18 PM (seven years ago) bookmarkflaglink

I just heard this for the first time yesterday and it is extremely neat. Unlike anything else he's done--latin percussion, piano, bass, no horns. One of the best Blue Note LP covers too

Somehow that's the one I always forget about too, even though I said it was neat. I've never really spent enough time with it.

happy birthday herbie!

Happy birthday to Herbie Hancock, born on this day in 1940 in Chicago. Here he is demonstrating his Fairlight keyboard and computer recording setup to Quincy Jones in 1984. pic.twitter.com/NoR5R5bdqE

— dusttoodigital (@dusttoodigital) April 12, 2022

Listening on Youtube to a bunch of Herbie this weekend, algorithm brought up a PBS video of him doing a version of "Maiden Voyage" at Madelyn Albright's funeral. Lovely take. It made me curious if there was a connection of either Secretary Albright being a jazz fan or a personal connection.

https://hancockinstitute.org/2022/03/remembering-madeleine-albright/

Albright was active with the Institute for over 25 years, beginning with her tenure as United States Secretary of State, when she was instrumental in bringing Institute artists to serve a key role at the 1998 Summit of the Americas in Santiago, Chile, and hosted receptions for the Institute’s annual Competition in Washington, D.C. She subsequently became a close friend and generous supporter of the Institute.

Albright believed fervently in the power of the arts, most especially jazz, to forge bonds that transcend political, national, linguistic, religious or ethnic barriers, and to bolster the foundations of democracy. This conviction led her to share her talents frequently with the Institute, from serving as a mentor and advisor on cultural diplomacy, to lending her talents on the drums for Institute events from time to time. She was instrumental in helping the Institute expand its global impact through initiatives including U.S. State Department Tours and International Jazz Day.

Madame Secretary, you will be greatly missed.

RIP

bummer

please no using RIP on yhe Herbie Hancock thread in any context

Yes, got scared too.

when she was instrumental in bringing Institute artists to serve a key role at the 1998 Summit of the Americas in Santiago, Chile

Been listening to FLOOD nonstop - man so much killer shit on here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At1wCLEVdWI

Wow that's one of those songs I've heard a million times but never out of context, always after Watermelon Man. What a complete jam it is.

Takes so little to decontextualize a tune and make it sound fresh. Thanks!

i've been really into dis is da drum and future 2 future lately, i am speaking out of my depth here but i feel like jazzy dnb can't get much better than the second half of future 2 future? dis is da drum is prob thought of as the corniest possible engagement with hip-hop and dance music by a jazz dude but it actually rules and is smooth and gorgeous

only discourse about either record in this thread is by tuomas which makes some kind of sense

the 2cd edition of F2F has an excellent joe claussell suite of the essence track.
listed as seperate remixes, but i seem to recall that it all flows as one long track.

https://www.discogs.com/release/386161-Herbie-Hancock-Future-2-Future-The-Essence-Mixes

Goddammit, now I have to pull that down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msI-_PGCOiQ

I heard it's quite the cocktail when you mix it up with Ron Carter and Wayne Shorter's. Those three have amazing chemistry.

beet! wise! ya gat ta realise
that i don't apologise
for ma lifestyle

https://www.vinylmeplease.com/collections/anthology/products/the-story-of-herbie-hancock?variant=32913584980058

kind of priecy

No Mwandishi = incomplete story

The Song remains the same

There's already a Mwandishi book, I think!

speaking of, not sure if this has been posted before or talked about here. a bootleg i return to again and again. mwandishi band in detroit, 10.8.72

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PZrr2Wuxcw

the vinyl me please people belong in the shady scams thread imo

agree. with a little patience, $349 should be plenty for clean original copies of the first six (last two never released on vinyl iirc)

granted, > 80% of that $349 is going to go into the first two of those six

There's already a Mwandishi book, I think!

There is; You'll Know When You Get There: Herbie Hancock and the Mwandishi Band, by Bob Gluck. It's supposed to be excellent.

what a bizarre hodgepodge of albums/eras in that VMP set

100%

Aren’t some of those available in pretty nice recent blue note editions? Tone poet or the classic series?

Paying for the unboxing experience

i mean i guess if you want a brand new mint copy for playing (on a rega with bamboo needle connected to headphone tube amp connected to beyerdynamic headphones etc etc) with absolute minimum surface noise this makes sense

on a broader level that mindset doesn't make any sense to me at all, but to each their own

That Gluck book contains lots of insights from the Mwandishi band members into the formation and dissolution of the group. Keeping the band on the road improved the music but was economically disastrous.

I've been listening to Bennie Maupin's second solo album, Slow Traffic to the Right from 1977. It's much closer to fusion than his debut on ECM, but still tasteful, without pandering to an audience who probably weren't going to buy anyway. He does slightly more funky versions of the two pieces he contributed to Hancock's Crossings.

"Nice box overall, a variety of authenticity issues with the reproduction jackets but overall an excellent set. Very happy with the pressings, *except* for Side A of the Piano, which on my copy has visible and audible pressing defects causing loud distortion making Side A unlistenable. Have contacted VMP for a hopeful replacement disc."

uh oh!

https://www.discogs.com/release/18471535-Herbie-Hancock-The-Story-of-Herbie-Hancock

I wonder what they would charge to just download it all as FLAC

haha hopeless

I very much doubt a repress will ever surpass an original sonically, also originals obv a better investment

I've never heard this soundtrack before today. It sort of bridges the gap between the Mwandishi stuff and the Headhunters stuff, mixed with his other soundtrack work to my ears
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xG8-7mY2Zs

That movie’s at the top of my to-watch list rn

I saw that movie about 3 months ago and I loved it. Truly radical stuff. It's the kind of movie you read about and think "great premise but surely it doesn't do it justice," but for once IT DOES DO IT JUSTICE!

Watching Hancock's episode of Elvis Costello's Spectacle after watching Smokey Robinson's, and it's wonderful to hear how both men had someone that was kind of looking out for them.

Robinson has two great stories about that: 1) First, Berry Gordy approached him after witnessing the Miracles' failed audition because he noticed they were playing unfamiliar songs (everyone else auditioned with well-known hits). Turns out Robinson wrote them - Gordy wanted to hear what else he had, and after critiquing his songs, he offered to mentor Robinson and show him how to write, which he did. 2) A disastrous rehearsal at the Apollo was saved by headliner Ray Charles because the Miracles didn't bring any arrangements, much to the venue's displeasure, and when Charles heard them getting chewed out, he stepped in and learned AND arranged their songs right on the spot.

With Hancock, he talks a bit about Donald Byrd, who hired him and later told him "you're ready to make your own album" and got him a deal with Blue Note while guiding him on what that would be like. Then one day he tells a skeptical Hancock that Miles Davis is looking for him and says "if Miles asks, tell him you're NOT working with anybody." Hancock doesn't think it'll happen, but he adds he can't imagine leaving Byrd because he's already done so much for him - he basically owes everything he has to Byrd. Byrd's response - "I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I knew I stood in the way of a great opportunity to your career." (Personal note, it may not be show business, but I've had friends who were screwed over by vindictive employers when they tried to pursue other opportunities - not out of greed but simply to work a salary that'll actually pull them out of debt instead of sinking further into it - so Byrd's explanation is all the more touching for that reason.) 30 minutes later, Miles himself does indeed call and ask "are you working with anyone now?" and Hancock says "No." Hancock then calls his friend Tony Williams (Hancock is 23, Williams is 17), and Williams says he got the call too. They're both elated and it's great how Hancock gets that across - you really get what it must've felt like for them when they were still so young and relative unknowns albeit gainfully employed.

I interviewed him a few years back and he spoke about this, and a bunch of other stuff too. He's a fantastic interviewee - hard to believe he's in his 80s now.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/jun/24/herbie-hancock-miles-davis-told-me-i-dont-pay-you-to-get-applause

Thanks for the link Stevie! And yes, absolutely - I saw him a few years ago and kept thinking "he's the same age as some people I know back home and the difference in physical health and appearance couldn't be more different."

I genuinely think it's the Buddhism!

Apparently that all started with Buster Williams. They asked him how he managed to keep his energy up so high after long shows, touring etc. and that’s what he told them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AE-EabHu0U

This track is hot af

otm

As is this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ttlYJeva7w

Came across this brutal takedown by Peter Margasak.

Gary Giddins's criticism is no surprise - he's always been very open about how much he hates fusion, whether it involves rock, R&B and/or funk elements. I didn't realize how much Margasak hated Hancock's post-Blue Note work. He doesn't mention Head Hunters by name, but I was stunned that he lumped that album into "the drop-off" after Sextant that is "so dramatic, so absolute" - personally, it's easily the '70s Hancock album that I hold in highest regard. (In fairness, outside of Head Hunters, I'm much more partial towards Hancock's '60s work as well. Between everything he did for Blue Note and Miles Davis, it would've been extremely difficult to surpass.)

One minor point - he doesn't go too much into detail about Hancock's work on Round Midnight for which Hancock won an Oscar (not a Grammy as Margasak writes), but nobody should mistake that as dilettantism, especially one driven by calculated marketability. For starters, it's an art film directed by a French arthouse auteur (Bertrand Tavernier) rather than anyone known for commercial work. The budget was $3 million which even in 1986 wasn't a lot for an international period piece. More importantly, there were NO film stars - Tavernier had to push hard to cast real-life jazz great Dexter Gordon in the lead role, and regardless of his accomplishments and talents, that didn't mean he was a box office draw, especially when he had very little experience acting in films. And Hancock knew Gordon - he even played on Hancock's debut album (by which point Gordon was already an established jazz great). In addition to Hancock's background in film scoring - going back to the '60s! - it was natural and more than logical for Tavernier to consider Hancock as the film composer. The fact that both Gordon and Hancock would be up for Oscars was kind of a fluke - nobody predicted that when they signed on for the movie.

I love Mwandishi and Crossings, like Sextant a lot, but something about the sound of Head Hunters repels me. Everything is now flanged and phased and the synth tones are nearly as bad as Zawinul's. I mean to listen to his next couple of records but my hopes aren't high, but not because "Herbie abandoned jazz" or whatever these sorts of critics say.

very offtm, you should go get that checked out

Like I said upthread I think the Bennie Maupin solo albums are better explorations of a more commercial sort of electric jazz.

Head Hunters’ version of “Watermelon Man” was on the jazz station when my clock radio went off yesterday. What a weird, funky way to wake up.

lol Margasak. When he was the Reader's music critic, and Rosenbaum the film critic, that was some peak '90s snobbery (bless em both).

I don't love Head Hunters either. That band improved on Thrust and Man-Child and especially Flood.

Head Hunters is incredible and I love how it sounds (so spacious even with everything that's going on, probably because everything is so dry), but it's a bit hard to hear after countless jam session versions of Chameleon and Watermelon Man. Still, Thrust >>>>>

Has anyone caught the current tour? I know I should go, I mean it's probably our last chance to see him.

Btw I just happened to read this about Round Midnight recently, a blog from Kirk Lightsey, who played piano for Dexter Gordon for a number of years:

Back in New York when Dexter was working on the movie “Round Midnight,” he didn’t call me for the gig. There was a pecking order and a placement in NY at the time. There were people in line for that gig before me. Herbie Hancock and Cedar Walton . . .. So many fingers. For the movie, of course, I had been playing for five years with Dexter, so I was on the list. But I wasn’t high enough up in the pecking order. For the movie or the pecking order.
https://www.coming-and-going.com/post/how-it-all-ended-with-dexter

His performance at Big Ears was full of energy and the band killed it (esp Lionel Loueke on guitar). The set was on the 70s fusion-y side. He even played "Come Running to Me"!

I can definitely see why some might find the Headhunters era sound offputting. There's something a bit shrill or nasal bout it btw the soprano sax and wah guitar and clavinet type tones. I'm only in the right mood for it sometimes.

In my experience Headhunters is one of those recs that ppl with no jazz experience REALLY enjoy (as opposed to say Kind of Blue where the response is much more dutiful). It’s got some bangin’ tunes and is v funky, I can understand why it’s a hit, I love it too.

it's news to me that anybody doesn't like the Head Hunters LP

seriously

It's definitely news to me that anyone doesn't like that record but likes Thrust and Man-Child. A take I haven't heard.

Hip-hop songs that sample tracks from Head Hunters > Head Hunters

smdh

some of you do not own any corduroy sportscoats and it shows

xps My partner's in grad school and sometimes gets student discount offers for various events around NYC. Hancock's Lincoln Center/David Geffen Hall show popped up as one last fall. I almost forgot about it until this past week when it showed up on our calendar and I forgot we maximized the deal by getting front row seats. I've never seen Hancock this close and it was REALLY close - the guy next to me joked it was like sitting in coach on an airplane because the stage was inches from our feet. So good - the only downside was they were allotted just 90 minutes and they've been playing a full two hours everywhere else, so the set did feel a bit truncated. (Hancock actually wrapped up the penultimate number after checking his watch and telling us through his vocoder that "I'm sorry but we only have five minutes left!") Regardless, if you've never seen them before (and my partner hadn't) definitely go, but FWIW, the setlist covers a lot of the same ground as their recent tours. At this point, I'd love to see an all-acoustic show partly to change things up.

synth tones are nearly as bad as Zawinul's

You should ask yourself if this is the genre for you tbh

Came across this brutal takedown by Peter Margasak🕸.

synth tones are nearly as bad as Zawinul's

You should ask yourself if this is the genre for you tbh

I'd venture that all the big fusion keyboard players sounded better on organs and electric pianos than synths, at least for a few years, which is one reason why I like the Mwandishi stuff best.
I don't feel the same about the big name prog keyboardists, who tended to be equally tasteful or tasteless whatever instrument they played.