Fuck the Man, I'll Have a Vegan Punk Rock Cupcake, Please.

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If you've ever thought to yourself, "man, you know ... i sure do love punk rock, but nobody who makes cupcakes seems to understand my angst and passion for food politics," then you might want to read this article from the New York Times.

However, I'd like to know exactly which bands inspired this woman to use cider vinegar rather than buttermilk.

The Times can really be ridiculous. Anyway, here's the URL if the link doesn't work for some reason:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/24/dining/24vega.html?em&ex=1169787600&en=2f4245d92d743787&ei=5087%0A

Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:25 (nineteen years ago)

This article definitely makes a massive stretch of it, but I don't think it's unfair to connect a lot of today's vegan culture with a whole history of punk / straightedge / DIY mentalities. (It just requires a really broad use of the word "punk.")

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:35 (nineteen years ago)

I Love Music

Confounded (Confounded), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:36 (nineteen years ago)

funny, i thought punk was music.

agreed. it's just funny, like ...

dude, this kitchen is so fucking punk. these cupcakes are so punk. vegetables are more punk than meat substitutes.

as a current resident of California, i also find her distaste for "California hippies" comical. i'm pretty sure that someone who let their cat sit next to their cupcakes and makes sure that the cupcakes are completely vegan can't scoff too much at HIPPIES. haha.

Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:38 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think the cupcakes are punk in and of themselves, but like Nabisco said, vegan culture these days is often intertwined with punk culture.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:39 (nineteen years ago)

well, fuck. i want punk cupcakes. do you think you can make them more punk? because then i'd be totally into them.

Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:40 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

Or rather that shouldn't say "a lot of today's vegan culture," and should be something more like "a specific subset of today's vegan culture" -- certainly I'd say that the bulk of vegans I personal know came to that by way of being profoundly affected by punk, DIY, riot grrl, or something in the way of rock-music-associated culture.

And the hippie thing's an attempt to draw a line around that subset -- i.e. getting away from the more "spiritual" image of the thing, and framing veganism as more of a direct (and righteous/subversive) political stance.

Punk is music, but you can't act like punk in the U.S. isn't one of the forms of music with the most culture-mentality stuff accreted around it!

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:41 (nineteen years ago)

nabisco ... when i said punk is music i was scoffing at the post after yours "I LOVE MUSIC" ... which is apparently suggesting that this thread isn't appropriate for ILM because its not strictly about music. that's all.

Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:42 (nineteen years ago)

I'm sure some vegans want to be as boring and dumpy as everyone else

Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:43 (nineteen years ago)

nabisco, i don't dispute punk is related to political choices. i'm poking fun at the tone of the article from the NYT.

Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:43 (nineteen years ago)


m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:44 (nineteen years ago)

"Punk is music, but you can't act like punk in the U.S. isn't one of the forms of music with the most culture-mentality stuff accreted around it!"
-- nab

Deja vu. But not the good kind...

the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:44 (nineteen years ago)

http://veganbasics.com/g/petastore/a/PPAUFUS075XPN.jpg

m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:46 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.threadless.com/product/490/minizoom.jpg

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:48 (nineteen years ago)

food not bombs is a big organization w/the punks, and that's who the cupcake lady worked for, so this is not a big surprise.

also, i hate California hippies, too.

Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:50 (nineteen years ago)

Sorry, Cameron, misunderstood you.

P.S. at this point I'm not sure "punk" is really a sufficient or good way to talk about this whole complex of mentalities. I mean, there's a general urban type who commits seriously to things like vegan cooking, bicycling as transport, DIY everything, barter experiments, etc. -- "punk" in a broad form might be a kind of spark that helped with that, but at this point it's just a general, much-bigger way of trying to bring urban habits more in line with certain environmental/political ideals (and in a way that seems enjoyable to people, not a sort of burden -- part of the point is still to evangelize for these things as sensible options, though god knows how said folks would react if the whole city really did join in).

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:50 (nineteen years ago)

crusty punks, we called them

Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:51 (nineteen years ago)

However, I'd like to know exactly which bands inspired this woman to use cider vinegar rather than buttermilk.

Also, the answer to this is Earth Crisis.

Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:52 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, i was about to say

feed latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:54 (nineteen years ago)

all the hardcore kids i knew in HS were either straight edge vegan pro-life nutjobs or christian pro-life nutjobs

feed latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:56 (nineteen years ago)

A lot of them aren't so crusty anymore, though, you know? Like you go to Minneapolis and spot some face-tatooed bike-messenger folks, and yeah, crusty, but then there's plenty of well-groomed grad-student types, and ... I dunno, at this point it's like a spectrum between crusty, the guy who works at a university and listens to world music, and just average types.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 20:57 (nineteen years ago)

yeah holy shit the mimicry talents of the middle class have created a post-modern-web of shifting value systems!!!

Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:00 (nineteen years ago)

Mr. Que,

I also hate California hippies, and yet I live in San Francisco. What have I become?

Nabisco,

I agree. Punk has become an umbrella term. I don't think anyone will argue with that. DIY is the same. Personally, I don't trust anyone who feels very strongly about those words as far as how they apply to themselves. Both words have essentially become obnoxious pseudo-ideologies that are reinvented by every person who decides to employ them.

Boring.

I just like the seriousness of the article.

ALSO ...

Did anyone notice that "Ms. Moskowitz’s veganism embraces chocolate, white flour, confectioners’ sugar, and food coloring," which includes POTENTIALLY un-vegan ingredients? I'm curious.

ALSO ...

I like that nobody has even mentioned that Ted Leo is in the article. Haha. Who cares?

Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:00 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think it counts as "mimicry" if the commonality is the political/environmental stuff -- it's not middle-class folks trying to be like crusty punks in style, just coming around to a lot of the same activism and DIY habits.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:02 (nineteen years ago)

I also hate California hippies, and yet I live in San Francisco. What have I become?

Someone who pays way too much in rent?

Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:03 (nineteen years ago)

if you are wearing a crass t-shirt, have dreadlocks, and ate veggie chili for breakfast, lunch and dinner. . .you might be a crusty punk.

Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:04 (nineteen years ago)

Mr. Que,

I love this city! I'm just not ready to give up on every other city in America and move to Greenpoint. Not yet, although I love NY and I'm sure it will happen.

And we've got great records stores and beautiful mountains. :]

Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:04 (nineteen years ago)

(Also Cameron, I think that as an old DC-area guy and a frequent referencer of the history of punk subcultures, Ted Leo actually makes a lot of sense as someone to ask about this -- at that point we're stretching way far from the cupcakes in a way I'm not sure the author realizes is weird, but he's not the absolute worst dude to ask.)

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:04 (nineteen years ago)

I wasn't speaking to the credentials of Ted Leo. He's definitely a legit dude within that scene, but I'm just personally not interested in what he has to say about veganism. Especially when it comes off sounding like a free zine in a punk store.

Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:05 (nineteen years ago)

1. Ted Leo's a vegan
2. Ted has roots in punk culture
3. The NY Times figured people might know who he is
4. Why wouldn't he be the perfect dude to ask?

Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:07 (nineteen years ago)

I like that nobody has even mentioned that Ted Leo is in the article. Haha.

Well, it helps explain why he guerrilla-interviewed me last summer about what kind of fruit I like.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:07 (nineteen years ago)

. . .and Cameron, New York City has lovely mountains!

Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:08 (nineteen years ago)

yeah I went skiing on them last weekend

Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:11 (nineteen years ago)

For the record, I never disputed that Ted Leo was an appropriate person to interview. So, let's not fixate on this. Just think it was funny that no one mentioned him being in the article. At all. Until I did.

As mentioned, I love New York. Just not there yet. I love my 14x16 room and my cush job too much. But it will happen.

Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:14 (nineteen years ago)

VEGAN! PUNK! ROCK! CUPCAKE!

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:16 (nineteen years ago)

EXACTLY!

Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:17 (nineteen years ago)

ted leo wrote a song about being vegan. actually, he's written a couple. "come baby come" is a good one.

Emily Bjurnhjam (Emily Bjurnhjam), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:17 (nineteen years ago)

"funny, i thought punk was music."

It's amazing how many people seem to suffer from this fundamental misconception.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:18 (nineteen years ago)

VEGAN! PUNK! ROCK! CUPCAKE!

-- The Android Cat (djperr...), January 24th, 2007.

sung to the tune of "Hot...Rod....Lincoln"

feed latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:18 (nineteen years ago)

ted leo wrote a song about being vegan. actually, he's written a couple. "come baby come" is a good one.

PLZ TELL ME YOU MEAN THE VERSION BY K7

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:23 (nineteen years ago)

M@tt He1g3s0n: oh u mad cuz im stylin on u (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:29 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.stencilrevolution.com/photopost/data/504/IMG_0001.JPG

M@tt He1g3s0n: oh u mad cuz im stylin on u (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:30 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp3Oazu_iBA

BOUNCE COME ON BOUNCE
BOUNCE COME ON BOUNCE
I SLAM THE DOOR (BOOM)
WHEN I COME INTO THE BEDROOM (WHAM BAM)
'CAUSE I'M THE KING OF THE CASTLE (NA NA NA)

TURN ME ON TURN ME LOOSE
(COME ON COME ON)
TRY TO HIT IT
IT'S A HASSLE
COME AND GET SOME OF THIS
DON'T FORGET INNUENDO
PLAY ME LIKE NINTENDO
NEVER LET GO
SCREAMING SO LOUD
YOU'LL BE HITTING THE CRESCENDO
DOH RAY ME FA SOL LA TE DOH

CHORUS:
COME BABY COME
BABY BABY COME COME
COME BABY COME
BABY BABY COME COME

WELL YOU GOTTA GIVE ME LOVIN'
AND YOU GOTTA GIVE ME SOME
YOU GOTTA GIVE ME LOVIN'
AND YOU GOTTA GIVE ME SOME

WELL I CAN HEAR THE (RING RING RING)
THE TELEPHONE GOES RING (HELLO HELLO)
BUT WE'RE STILL GETTING BUSY
(PUMP PUMP PUMP HUH)

NOW YOU'RE GETTING DIZZY
I CAN SLOW IT DOWN
SO YOU CAN PUMP IT (PUMP IT)
THEN I CAN MOVE IT FAST
SO YOU CAN PUMP IT (PUMP IT)

TWO BALLS AND A BAT
THE PITCHERS WEARS A HAT
SLIDING INTO HOME BASE
TRYING TO HIT A HOME RUN
SWING BATTA BATTA BATTA
BATTA BATTA SWING

CHORUS

BOUNCE COME ON BOUNCE
BOUNCE COME ON BOUNCE
TELL ME DO YOU IT LIKE THAT (YEAH YEAH)
DO YOU WANT A LITTLE MORE (YEAH YEAH)
NOW TELL ME DO YOU LOVE ME (YEAH YEAH)
COME ON (DO YOU LOVE ME)

STRAIGHT UP NOW TELL ME
BOUNCE COME ON BOUNCE
BOUNCE COME ON BOUNCE

BOUNCE COME ON BOUNCE
BOUNCE
COME BABY COME
BABY BABY COME COME
COME BABY COME BABY BABY
COME COME
YOU GOTTA GIVE ME LOVIN'
AND YOU GOTTA GIVE ME SOME

The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:33 (nineteen years ago)

The REAL crusty punk=
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d68/hernberferd/vap.jpg

Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:34 (nineteen years ago)

HELL YEAH

DON'T FORGET INNUENDO
PLAY ME LIKE NINTENDO
NEVER LET GO
SCREAMING SO LOUD
YOU'LL BE HITTING THE CRESCENDO
DOH RAY ME FA SOL LA TE DOH

Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:35 (nineteen years ago)

real crusty punks eat apple pies?

Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:36 (nineteen years ago)

DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO EAT FACIST

M@tt He1g3s0n: oh u mad cuz im stylin on u (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:37 (nineteen years ago)

WHY DONT YOU GO BACK TO MOMMY AND ASK FOR A HANDOUT? BUY MY ZINE!

Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:38 (nineteen years ago)

IM IN UR TALL BIKE RUNNING OVER UR DOODZ

http://static.flickr.com/31/57555953_9800c3d7cf_m.jpg

M@tt He1g3s0n: oh u mad cuz im stylin on u (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:39 (nineteen years ago)

TWO BALLS AND A BAT
THE PITCHERS WEARS A HAT
SLIDING INTO HOME BASE
TRYING TO HIT A HOME RUN
SWING BATTA BATTA BATTA
BATTA BATTA SWING

i think this is about how horrible the conditions in industrial cattle farms are.

Emily Bjurnhjam (Emily Bjurnhjam), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:40 (nineteen years ago)

CRUSTy punk, duh.

Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:41 (nineteen years ago)

Oh shit. I am s o o o o not punk anymore. Who wants my Subhumans records?

Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:43 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.drmenlo.com/imagio/fotographia/isaterryhome.jpg

Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 21:43 (nineteen years ago)

Here is the best piece of writing about punk rock ever. In the history of the world. The credit is due to one Wyatt Williams.

A haiku.

"Punk rock saved my life
Then I got bored and found out
About other stuff"

BRILLIANT

Cameron Octigan (Cameron Octigan), Thursday, 25 January 2007 00:10 (nineteen years ago)

A++++++++++! GREAT BUYER!! WOULD DO BUSINESS AGAIN

Confounded (Confounded), Thursday, 25 January 2007 00:14 (nineteen years ago)

In the late 1960s, Upper Haight was filled with hippies.

Since the 1990s, Upper Haight is filled with crusties.

Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Thursday, 25 January 2007 00:19 (nineteen years ago)

I like hippies FWIW.

Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Thursday, 25 January 2007 00:19 (nineteen years ago)

Ex-Social Distortion bassist killed by truck,not cupcake.
POSTED: 3:14 p.m. EST, January 24, 2007
Adjust font size:

PLACENTIA, California (AP) -- Brent Liles, a former bassist for the 1980s punk rock group Social Distortion, was struck and killed by a truck while riding a bicycle, authorities said Wednesday. He was 43.

Liles was hit on January 18. No immediate charges were brought against the driver.

Liles, who was from Fullerton, joined Social Distortion in 1981 and played bass on the band's "Mommy's Little Monster" recording two years later.

Fed up with turmoil inside the group, he and drummer Derek O'Brien quit the band during a New Year's Eve performance in 1983.

Liles went on to play with other punk groups such as Agent Orange.

dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Thursday, 25 January 2007 00:51 (nineteen years ago)

I still want to know where the hedonism comes in.

Like feminism that embraces makeup and miniskirts — the frivolous bits — Ms. Moskowitz’s veganism embraces chocolate, white flour, confectioners’ sugar, and food coloring.

It would have never occurred to me that veganism would not embrace these things (assuming we're not talking about milk chocolate).

Sundar (sundar), Thursday, 25 January 2007 01:31 (nineteen years ago)

otm - I thought EVERYONE embraced confectioners' sugar.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 25 January 2007 01:37 (nineteen years ago)

I work part time in a vegan bakery and listen to lots of punk. I don't see anything in those ingredients that is automatically non-vegan. If you know your sugar supplier, you should be fine (some sugar is filtered with charcoal made from animal bone).

Personally I favor eating local more than eating vegan. Makes more sense to eat your neighbor's eggs than to buy tofu grown in China with GMO soy and then shipped and trucked to hell and back.

sleeve (sleeve), Thursday, 25 January 2007 02:10 (nineteen years ago)

Personally I favor eating local more than eating vegan.

Yus. That's something I try to follow more these days through CSA.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 25 January 2007 02:54 (nineteen years ago)

food coloring = you almost never know what, exactly, is in it; sugar, see sleeve's comment; white flour & chocolate, the author's conflating some hippie-cuisine stuff since "natural foods" types always leaned toward wheat flour 'n' carob

mr octigan I am stunned and impressed by your bold and trailblazing stance on punk rock & the ethical positions sometimes associated with it! pls continue to boldly proclaim your truth!!

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Thursday, 25 January 2007 04:07 (nineteen years ago)

Isa Moskowitz's vegan sausage gravy is fucking killer, I have to say. I'm posting the recipe below for anyone who wants to try it, and I highly encourage trying it, because it's damn good-- and much healthier than regular sausage gravy (it's also kinder to animals!).

Biscuits and Tempeh Sausage Gravy

The recipe consists of three parts: the sausage crumbles, the gravy, and the biscuits.

SAUSAGE CRUMBLES
the recipe is posted here:
http://www.theppk.com/recipes/dbrecipes/recipe.php?RecipeID=125

prep time: 2 minutes | cooking time: 25-30 minutes | makes about 2 cups

Ingredients
8 oz package tempeh
1 tablespoon fennel seed
1 teaspoon dried basil
1 teaspoon dried margoram or oregano
1/2 teaspoon red pepper flakes
1/2 teaspoon dried sage
2 teaspoons garlic, minced
2 tablespoons tamari or soy sauce
1 tablespoon olive oil
juice of 1/2 a lemon

Directions
In a saute pan, crumble the tempeh and add enough water to almost cover it. Over high heat, steam the tempeh until most of the water is absorbed, about 15 minutes. Drain the remaining water and add the rest of the ingredients and cook over medium heat, stirring occasionally, until lightly browned, about 10 minutes.

GRAVY:
2 cups cooked white beans, or 1 15-oz can drained and rinsed
2 Tbsp olive oil
1/4 cup veg broth or water
1/2 tsp salt
Black pepper
10-12 leaves fresh sage, chopped

Prepare the Tempeh sausage crumbles and keep them warm in a pan.
Puree the white beans with the oil and broth until relatively smooth. (I have a hand blender so I just do it right in a cooking pot, but you can do this in a blender or food processor instead). Add this to the tempeh crumbles with the salt and pepper. Heat through. You can thin the gravy by adding more vegetable broth. Mix in the sage and cook for another 2 minutes.

BISCUITS:
I'm not going to bother posting a biscuit recipe, but there's a drop biscuit recipe the Joy of Cooking that uses olive oil instead of butter. Try that one out. It works well.

richard wood johnson (rwj), Thursday, 25 January 2007 05:51 (nineteen years ago)

Personally I favor eating local more than eating vegan.

ditto.

i don't eat meat that often (broek), but when i do, i buy local organic stuff from the co-op.

still bummed that my roommate never hooked up an elk, though ;_;

mothers against celibacy (skowly), Thursday, 25 January 2007 06:30 (nineteen years ago)

wow @ gay thread

am0n (am0n), Thursday, 25 January 2007 06:37 (nineteen years ago)

In the late 1960s, Upper Haight was filled with hippies.

Since the 1990s, Upper Haight is filled with crusties.

By 2010, filled with yuppies and senior citizens! (Cf. the church that's being converted into a senior home at Haight/Central and the Whole Foods/DMV rebuilding thing.)

A knife to his wife Eve and his credibility. (goodbra), Thursday, 25 January 2007 06:58 (nineteen years ago)

still bummed that my roommate never hooked up an elk, though ;_;

You missed out. Elkburgers are cool.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 25 January 2007 07:01 (nineteen years ago)

http://community.livejournal.com/sextips/4132247.html

Jacob (Jacob), Thursday, 25 January 2007 07:18 (nineteen years ago)

It's interesting to me that the economics / history of sugar production are so rarely discussed even by people who are supposedly so thoughtful, i.e. vegans.

Then again, I don't think I've ever met a vegan who didn't also drink and smoke a ton. It's all about balance I guess?

Michael J McGonigal (mike mcgonigal), Thursday, 25 January 2007 07:27 (nineteen years ago)

But tobacco and alcohol are natural products, so they must be consumed to avoid them becoming bad tobacco and bad alcohol.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 25 January 2007 07:30 (nineteen years ago)

ahhh, ok, that makes perfect sense.

in its pure form heroin is perfectly natural too, right? just have to use vegan syringes.

Michael J McGonigal (mike mcgonigal), Thursday, 25 January 2007 07:32 (nineteen years ago)

Of the finest bamboo.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 25 January 2007 07:33 (nineteen years ago)

This thread would become more amusing if people would start listing fake punk rock vegan band names.

These Robust Cookies (Robust Cookies), Thursday, 25 January 2007 07:39 (nineteen years ago)

The Tastyfakes

Bernard Snowy (sixteen sergeants), Thursday, 25 January 2007 13:46 (nineteen years ago)

The Great Seitan

Bernard Snowy (sixteen sergeants), Thursday, 25 January 2007 13:47 (nineteen years ago)

Curdish Death Squad

Bernard Snowy (sixteen sergeants), Thursday, 25 January 2007 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

TOFUGAZI

a nuclear-powered carrot (braveclub), Thursday, 25 January 2007 13:58 (nineteen years ago)

Mountains of Dead Chard

A knife to his wife Eve and his credibility. (goodbra), Thursday, 25 January 2007 15:38 (nineteen years ago)

Agent Tofurkey

mcd (mcd), Thursday, 25 January 2007 15:52 (nineteen years ago)

Control Your Tempeh

mcd (mcd), Thursday, 25 January 2007 15:53 (nineteen years ago)

We Were Fucking Quorndogs

Hell Hath No Furry (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 25 January 2007 16:22 (nineteen years ago)

Tempeh Of The Dog

joygoat (joygoat), Thursday, 25 January 2007 18:19 (nineteen years ago)

Alan Vegan

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 25 January 2007 18:23 (nineteen years ago)

vegans hate food and are terrible people to be around. their lives are ruled by food the way a junkie's is ruled by dope i.e. neurotic relationship with, and one that determines the direction of the day.

shookout (shookout), Thursday, 25 January 2007 18:25 (nineteen years ago)

“I think vegan cooks need to learn to cook vegetables first,” she said last week during a cupcake-baking marathon. “Then maybe they can be allowed to move on to meat substitutes.”

This is the most OTFM thing ever

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 25 January 2007 20:02 (nineteen years ago)

OTFM ain't what it used to be.

the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Thursday, 25 January 2007 20:13 (nineteen years ago)

protein-free brains

Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Thursday, 25 January 2007 20:15 (nineteen years ago)

OTFM ain't what it used to be.

Orangey-Tasting Felched Matter = the new OTFM

A knife to his wife Eve and his credibility. (goodbra), Saturday, 27 January 2007 04:24 (eighteen years ago)

It's interesting to me that the economics / history of sugar production are so rarely discussed even by people who are supposedly so thoughtful, i.e. vegans.

Are you serious? this subject is addressed in about half of the fifty or so vegetarian cookbooks I own

Then again, I don't think I've ever met a vegan who didn't also drink and smoke a ton. It's all about balance I guess?

Really! this sounds like a gross overgeneralization, or else you've encountered a remarkably consistent sample

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Saturday, 27 January 2007 05:06 (eighteen years ago)

Orangey-Tasting Felched Matter = the new OTFM

HAHAHAHAH

White Dopes on Punk (Bimble...), Saturday, 27 January 2007 05:07 (eighteen years ago)

Soundgardenburger

latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 27 January 2007 05:10 (eighteen years ago)

There's a crusty punk band here called Rising Crust, after the McCain's frozen pizzas. Genius.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 27 January 2007 05:30 (eighteen years ago)

Owning fifty vegetarian cookbooks is fucking pathetic.
I am totally serious.

be home by 11 (orion), Saturday, 27 January 2007 05:31 (eighteen years ago)

Shouldn't five or six provide you with the inspiration to do all kinds of badass shit in the kitchen? And do people really follow recipes to the letter anyway? (Except in the case of baking, when timing and measurement are much more important.) How many variations on vegan shepherds pie do you need? Or, for that matter, how many tables for ingredient substitution? I'm really getting unduly worked up over this.

be home by 11 (orion), Saturday, 27 January 2007 05:34 (eighteen years ago)

There's a crusty punk band here called Rising Crust, after the McCain's frozen pizzas. Genius.
I hope that is true, laughing my ass off.

chad (chad), Saturday, 27 January 2007 07:28 (eighteen years ago)

The best hardcore band name/concept I can recall is the NY state group "Nasdaq Rising"--extremely conservative econocore.

be home by 11 (orion), Saturday, 27 January 2007 07:39 (eighteen years ago)

Owning fifty vegetarian cookbooks is fucking pathetic.

Why? How is it worse than owning fifty meat-based cookbooks? If anything, vegetarian cookbooks tend to contain a more diverse set of recipes, since they don't all revolve around dressing up only the 4 meats that comprise the bulk of the American diet.

richard wood johnson (rwj), Saturday, 27 January 2007 16:31 (eighteen years ago)

Plus some people collect cookbooks. What the hell, dude.

Mark (MarkR), Saturday, 27 January 2007 16:36 (eighteen years ago)

vegan cookbook: $19.95

article that promotes the cook book by proclaiming:

"veganism: it's like being gay"

priceless

Uncle Tom (Uncle Tom), Sunday, 28 January 2007 17:57 (eighteen years ago)

owning 50 vegetarian cookbooks = pathetic

if

owning 50 punk rock records = pathetic

the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Monday, 29 January 2007 16:00 (eighteen years ago)

Owning anything is pathetic; we should all be downloading what we need into our cranial jacks.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 29 January 2007 16:05 (eighteen years ago)

owning 50 vegetarian cookbooks = pathetic
if

owning 50 punk rock records = pathetic

there aren't 50 punk records WORTH owning.

edde (edde), Monday, 29 January 2007 19:11 (eighteen years ago)

If you ask me, it is the desire to collect that is pathetic, not the desire to learn or experience.

richard wood johnson (rwj), Monday, 29 January 2007 19:21 (eighteen years ago)

"there aren't 50 punk records WORTH owning."

True, true. All you really need is Dig That Groove Baby.

the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Monday, 29 January 2007 19:25 (eighteen years ago)

"If you ask me, it is the desire to collect that is pathetic, not the desire to learn or experience."

mmm, yes.

edde (edde), Monday, 29 January 2007 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

"there aren't 50 punk records WORTH owning."

that is such horsehit. there's at least 51

latebloomer: crapness 2 the Nth degree (latebloomer), Monday, 29 January 2007 20:25 (eighteen years ago)

yeah?
list em!

and don't deviate into 'hardcore' and do not include SOnic Youth or the Butthole Surfers, as i can't think of anyone who considers them punk.

edde (edde), Monday, 29 January 2007 20:31 (eighteen years ago)

I do

UART variations (ex machina), Monday, 29 January 2007 20:34 (eighteen years ago)

and don't deviate into 'hardcore'

why the fuck not?

latebloomer: crapness 2 the Nth degree (latebloomer), Monday, 29 January 2007 20:37 (eighteen years ago)

there aren't 50 punk records WORTH owning.??

guh? also the no hardcore rule is particularly wierd?, considering the thread.

M@tt He1g3s0n: oh u mad cuz im stylin on u (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 29 January 2007 20:48 (eighteen years ago)

No, as a microcosm of the punk rock world, it's perfect.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 29 January 2007 20:49 (eighteen years ago)

how do you mean, i thought the thread was a bout veganism and such, which is way more a hardcore thing than a punk....

but either way there are i'm sure there are 50 cookbooks worth owning, if that yr thing.

M@tt He1g3s0n: oh u mad cuz im stylin on u (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 29 January 2007 20:51 (eighteen years ago)

or wait maybe it's about the urge to accumulate things now? not cupcakes.

M@tt He1g3s0n: oh u mad cuz im stylin on u (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 29 January 2007 20:54 (eighteen years ago)

alright, go for the hardcore thing.
i don't consider that to be all that punk, i consider it hardcore;)
splittin hairs, mah friend.
no, i actually don't expect any list of 51 punk records, at all.
that's just a waste o' time.
there seems to be some sliding scale of what people consider punk. myself included. to me, BHS and SY were never punk.
they just got lumped in.
are the Wipers punk? sorta. not really.
Melvins? nope. but to some they are. to other's they're just metal.
see what i'm sayin?

edde (edde), Monday, 29 January 2007 21:03 (eighteen years ago)

yeah but something like, say, minor threat is undeniably punk. and undeniably hardcore. why leave that out?

it's silly and pedantic to argue about this i guess, but saying something like 'there aren't 50 punk records WORTH owning' is even sillier!

latebloomer: crapness 2 the Nth degree (latebloomer), Monday, 29 January 2007 22:00 (eighteen years ago)

so, uh..vegans

latebloomer: crapness 2 the Nth degree (latebloomer), Monday, 29 January 2007 22:05 (eighteen years ago)

so, uh, getting back to the subject: I think veganism in its purest form really is a punk concept, in the sense that it is an active and ideologically-driven rejection of mainstream eating practices.

Someone mentioned above something about how all the vegans he knows drink and smoke a lot. Well, for the most part, vegans are about non-violence to animals, not health concerns. While it sometimes bothers me that many vegans rely on heavily processed foods and junk to manage their diets, I don't think this runs fundamentally contrary to vegan ideals. These foods might not be healthy, but the health aspect is an ideal placed on them by people who aren't vegan, and don't understand the ideology-- a straw man, essentially.

richard wood johnson (rwj), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 00:06 (eighteen years ago)

Agreed. A completely natural convergence.

Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 01:10 (eighteen years ago)

dudes be jealous of my cookbook collection

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 02:34 (eighteen years ago)

I also have, like, hundreds upon hundreds of novels, even though the workings of a novel are pretty rudimentary and you should pretty much be over the whole form by the time you've read four or five of 'em and maybe one or two experimental ones

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 02:35 (eighteen years ago)

...anyhow, for what it's worth, and to explain it to a dude who seems to have a real chip on his shoulder: around '96, when I first started relying on creative work for income and consequently found myself in the house most days, I decided I might start cooking dinner from scratch every night. Like a lot of people, I quickly learned that there is literally infinite variety in working the kitchen. For me, I go through periods with cookbooks like I do with albums or authors: really go through one for a few weeks, get to know the author's techniques and procedures and preferences, start working variations on recipes, incorporate the stuff I like into "what shall I cook if I don't want to rely on a recipe" style (2-3 days a week, right, and lunch, since I'm not much on elaborate lunches), and then move on to another cookbook, since there are as many different styles of cooking as there are authors of cookbooks. Once I'd gone through this process with four or five really good books (Lord Krishna's Cuisine by Yamuna Devi, Old World Breads and James Clayton's tremendous The New Book of Breads, Madhur Jaffrey's World Vegetarian Cuisine, and one my mother-in-law gave me called Real Vegetarian Thai which lets you make actual Thai curry, after which any not-from-scratch version tastes like cardboard), I found that I really enjoyed repeating this experience; cooking for one's family from scratch is infinitely more rewarding than reheating stuff and more fun, most nights, than going out to eat.

In my experience, most people who think of cooking as some sort of "learn the basics, then improvise!" deal turn out to be shitty cooks who couldn't make sourdough worth eating from a natural starter if there was a gun to their fucking heads. They make real good outraged internet dudes though.

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 02:55 (eighteen years ago)

In my experience, most people who think of cooking as some sort of "learn the basics, then improvise!" deal turn out to be shitty cooks who couldn't make sourdough worth eating from a natural starter if there was a gun to their fucking heads.

And people who slavishly follow recipes are sort of crippled by that, in my experience. Bound by rules, freaked out about things that aren't exactly right, and, most importantly, unable to understand what elements do what in a dish and how they can be modified, substituted, or otherwise improvised. Just freestyling everything is bad too - there's a happy medium. I was totally with you up until your last paragraph, though.

I own more cookbooks than I do novels, by far. Not even close.

joygoat (joygoat), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 09:15 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, and you mentioned sourdough - to me, cooking and baking are entirely different worlds in terms of following recipes.

joygoat (joygoat), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 09:16 (eighteen years ago)

yr right yr right though for me anyhow I like to do a recipe once or twice following as closely as I can before messing around with it - actors improvise too right but it's best to know the script first imo, mileage may vary, I just wanted to defend cookbooks because they are a great joy for me

also as an ex-Catholic I do enjoy following me some directions to the letter when I can

Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 12:16 (eighteen years ago)

I love love love reading cookbooks but when it comes to actually cooking I am much more one of those 'learn basics, then improvise!' types, I barely ever follow recipes correctly, whether cooking or baking.

I think veganism in its purest form really is a punk concept
I really disagree with this: I think you can become vegan for 'punk'-type reasons, as a rejection of mainstream food culture etc, but to call that the 'purest form' is seriously undervaluing veganism, like it can't exist unless it's shackled to an ideology, and a reactive one at that.

ampersand, spades, semicolon (cis), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 12:37 (eighteen years ago)

Veganism must be reactive + rejectionist, unless one is raised by vegans. In mainstream American/UK/Euro culture, there is no veganism absent the realization that eating meat is "wrong".

the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 16:11 (eighteen years ago)

I really disagree with this: I think you can become vegan for 'punk'-type reasons, as a rejection of mainstream food culture etc, but to call that the 'purest form' is seriously undervaluing veganism, like it can't exist unless it's shackled to an ideology, and a reactive one at that.

I suppose you're right in the sense that veganism can and should be able to stand on its own (i.e. existing in the absense of a contrary position). But on a practical level, I just don't think there are many vegans out there who don't have a moral agenda or ideological stance. As ampersand mentioned above, unless you were born into it and adopted it without the benefit of a conscious process, it seems that rejecting meat/dairy as food requires a value judgement (or at least a moral observation) being placed on the action, unless it is veganism for health reasons. Maybe it doesn't need to be reactive to meat-eating as such, but for all practical purposes, anyone who is vegan in the modern world will be forced or pigeonholed into a political role as a spokesperson for that lifestyle, even if they don't want to be (again, unless for health reasons). And frankly the demands of that lifestyle in the face of the modern diet, and the changes one would have to implement just to accomodate it will result in so much energy being expended into maintaining it that it will almost certainly begin to cause the person to define their own behavior in a way that necessarily references and rejects mainstream thought on the issue. Maybe this is not necessarily the case, but I would venture to say that it probably represents the situation of most vegans.

richard wood johnson (rwj), Tuesday, 30 January 2007 19:42 (eighteen years ago)


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