New Christgau Consumer Guide From MSN Music

this is funny in that it seems the Popist brigade has embraced her almost to a man

Privileged to be on Drag City Records?

The strawman alert is, I think, not so much that the alleged ideologues caused her supposed overratedness but that, you know, THERE IS THIS DEMOGRAPHIC, SEE, THAT REFUSES TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ORIGINALITY DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN ARTISTIC TRIUMPH.

well there is the pesky fact that the first one had some good songs and the second one was kinda Check Out My IMPORTANT IDEAS an' shit

-- Tim Ellison

That thought crosses my mind whenever I read Christgau.

"it seems the Popist brigade has embraced her almost to a man."

Huh??

I loved Milk Eyed Mender and [harsh words in re: Ys redacted, yay self-censorship]

and popist brigade sounds snotty, sorry, and definitely hyperbole in action there - but even the Lex (!) likes it

I am sorry I didn't understand the sentence. :/

Well, either way. I didn't like the first album either. Though I like Newsom because she gives me things to talk about (as opposed to Cookie Mountain which I neither disliked or liked enough to say a word about), I really dislike listening to her. Talented, but can't stand is OTM. Except for the talented part.

2xpost

Otherwise he's spot-on on Beyonce and Thomas Mapfumo, and as hopeless as the rest of us on parsing TV on the Radio's appeal.

"Supposedly inspired by milestones in Newsom's life, these whimsical pastoral allegories reveal only that her taste for the antique is out of control."

but i disagree and have to ask what is so bad about having out of control taste for anything? i get how it jibes with the opening sentence, but it's a rather conservative position to take. also it probably wouldn't be too difficult to frame beyonce in the same way, but beyonce doesn't get that treatment because she isn't indie?

ys would be more interesting w. her just playing the harp, i find the kind of singing she does, a nusiance (and i think that she hides some skills on purpose)

bday is an album that i found really revealtory, for a number of reasons, and i thought that it should have done better critically and commerically. though i often disagree xgau, i was feeling that i was the only one who thot this was (her/a) masterpeice.

it's undignified & makes him sound like a bitter old hippie.

And I still don't understand why people think what Lily Allen's parents did for a living is "relevant" as far as whether her music's any good or not (which is not to say it's not interesting; that sort of thing is always interesting. Actually, maybe the Joanna Nuisance review would be better if Bob was more specific about her class upbringing. Which I know nothing about; is it common knowledge? When Bob uses "privilege", I definitely assume "class" is coming into play, though I could well be misinterpreting him.)

I'm with Scott on the Clipse's words. Just like with lots of rappers (and plenty of non-rappers, though not too many country guys), I'm generally clueless on what the lyrics are supposed to add up to, and I'm not sure why being clueful about them would be a prerequisite to liking the record. Some lines they do sound cool; some less so. CD gets by on mood, inasmuch as it gets by (I'd give it a B+ or so too.)

is your position "people can't help being rich"? on the one hand, you're right, but on the other hand, privilege is a fair critique of a narrative/aethetic stance think: economic privilege, racial privilege, gender privilege, what have you - Newsome's vision is sorta by-and-for a real specific demographic and as such is profoundly limited, isn't that the point of what he's saying?

-- Thomas Tallis

I liked Milk Eyed Mender but Ys is nigh-on unlistenable to me.

I keep saying this but go find the live recordings (w/accompanying players substituting VDPs arrangements on folkier instruments (not the full-orchestra shebang) and you'll be amazed how much more instantly palatable her singing is (vocally, calmer phrasing with some breathing space), how much warmer and musically appropriate it sounds, how the depth finally reveals itself... and then want to *slap her* for wishing to make Ys some kind of point-proving outré monolith that unfortunately turned into a plain unfriendly complete fuck up.

Shit like this is SO frustrating to me that although I think she's capable of being very, very good, in the long run I honestly think I'm better off just giving up on her NOW >:-(

There's NO REASON Ys should be that impenetrable, and when presented with a little bit of care... it isn't! But I found out a bit too late and now all I feel towards it is hate for wasting so much of my fucking time "getting" it.

This is true enough, but Christgau giving props to a gangsta rap album without tackling the moral issues is always going to come off as weirder than it would with most critics, because he worked more than most at putting these issues in the forefront of other reviews he's written (see his stuff on N.W.A., Dr.Dre.)

But hip-hop is now where rock was in the early '80s, when veterans such as Joni Mitchell, Randy Newman and Lou Reed were the equivalent of what the book trade called publishers' poets back when commercial publishers dealt poetry.

Not trying to take us back to Newsom, but I think this pretty much sums it up for me. If not for the big names involved and the genuinely promising debut album, I highly doubt as many critics would've reacted to Ys. as positively as they did. Impossible to know, though, of course.

I think with Xgau they're often almost an instrumental flourish, to strain a metaphor - if you read his stuff out loud and say the letter grade at the end, it puts a cap on the thing, like a more weighted "The End." Otherwise co-sign completely in re: both letter & number grades, they've been unhealthy for crit in general & I'm happy that the only place you see 'em in book reviews is in fucking People, which is exactly where they belong

This makes me realize that I've never actually read a review of the album before Christgau's! At least I don't think I have. I was almost going to say that he really goes out of his way to squeeze a vague art-rock square peg into an un-vague political protest hole to justify PBS-style his not disliking it as much as he did their debut, but then I re-read the review and Bob really does make a case for it as a protest record of sorts. Not that that makes me remotely more interested in going back and listening to the thing again.

x-post I'm glad he admits that a lot of the appeal is that its prettier. But yeah, political acknowledgement can be an easy bump to A- for him.

new one out
http://music.msn.com/music/consumerguide

OH SNAP! paris goes to jail, then gets a "dud" from xgau

(i feel his reviews are somehow less predictable now that he's on msn - not sure why.....)

The column seems more shallow this time around - not as densely layered. And is there really so little new music that he needs to review Girl Talk and Clap Your Hands Say Yeah?

I wish he tied the idea that the Girl Talk album is oppressive more to its never coalescing into something deeper rather than its proving filthy rappers are bloody good fun. And even more than that to the fact that Night Ripper is a mash-up album with all the significance and longevity that implies.

I top tened this record but with reservations. Something about it always disturbed me. And Xgau's review has now lead me to figure out why (however unwittingly). The obviousness of the samples only underlines our inability to escape information-as-commodity or at least to step outside of it (to whatever extent), perhaps even to make something, well, deep of it. This never bugged me with "The Payoff Mix" or DJ Shadow or The Best Bootlegs in the World Ever (though I never got what The Avalanches were doing) because mixology was never a career option for Double Dee & Steinski and because Shadow did something fathomless with his samples and because the mash-uppers on Best Bootlegs were so anyonymous and most of the song one-offs. But mixology IS a career option for Greg Gillis whose name is displayed in the review and whose face is displayed on the CD (or one of them, I forget). And I fear that no matter how much is renown increases, we'll never get to know who he really is which means we'll never get to know where HE stands in relation to his samples which means we won't discover a new, inventive relationship with information. Which means I may be transforming from a pomo yaysayer to a modernist crank.

how much HIS renown increases...

The 2006 Dean's List

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/pnj/deans07.php

Um, he dug the Burial album? I'm stunned. Is there a review anywhere?

Yeah, I was surprised, too. I best it will be reviewed in Feb's MSN Consumer Guide.

I bet

45. Daft Punk: Live 2007 (Virgin)

!!!

ditto. i guess i'm allowed to own that shit now.

No Age, too. Great record.

Goddamn that's a shitty list

lol on Lucinda Williams, a permanent member of his Unimpeachable Canon.

I'd be hard pressed to come up with 10 albums on that list that I enjoy.

lol on Lucinda Williams, a permanent member of his Unimpeachable Canon.

who made a really pretty good album with a great single on it

Yeah, but still, that list blows.

Lil Wayne: The Carter 3 (Purloined Datadisc)

lol

http://www.dickdestiny.com/nomorepeas.jpg

Please Mommy, stop reading teh Christgau to me!

That's how I felt after going to Christgau's website (1996 graphics and all) and checking his Sabbath reviews on the archive. This guy gets paid for this shit?

http://image.blingee.com/images15/content/output/000/000/000/2a0/33828693_860182.gif

2006? am i missing something?

Lil Wayne: The Carter 3 (Purloined Datadisc)

lol + o_O

2006? am i missing something?

yeah, a typo

Lil Wayne: The Carter 3 (Purloined Datadisc)

lol + o_O

-- BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, January 29, 2008 5:19 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

^^sfj's #1 of the year

i mean he didn't even bother saying like "bootleg" or something

weird that neither of those dudes bother to totally differentiate between Carter 3 the as-yet unreleased 2008 album and the various 2007 mixtapes of leaked material that probably won't be on the album but get called Carter 3 anyway. it'll be pretty confusing if the album actually comes out this year and they put that title on their lists for the second year in a row.

(xpost yeah, what jordan said. i mean he said "purloined datadisc," which is the part where I'm laughing with him, but still....dude's top 3 rap albums are the year are Soulja Boy and two Weezy mixtapes).

I'm slightly astonished that we shared a taste in Singles.

Did Ya Rollin' Doo Doo make the 1991 Dean's List?

Bill Magill--I get the impression that your definition of a lame list is one that is not oh, 60% metal (with 'A' reviews)

I do not have the most rounded tastes, which is not good.

Bill Stanton

lol on Lucinda Williams, a permanent member of his Unimpeachable Canon.

Fer chrissakes, he even gave Essence, her only obvious clunker, a freakin' A-minus.

New CG up.

It's untrue that 15 years ago we would've called Untrue trip-hop. M. Burial speeds up and spaces out too much for true trip.

I never knew illbient well enough to attach to anyone. DJ Spooky? Mutamassik? The Wordsound label?

KJBozo u are rong

"It's untrue that 15 years ago we would've called Untrue trip-hop. M. Burial's music would have been called dubstep."

MORE DUDS

Various Artists
"After Dark" (Italians Do It Better)

This guy's popularity mystifies me.

I never liked trip-hop or illbient much (and I don't like Burial much), so I'm not the one to ask.

Strangely, though, I am a little more interested in hearing those Go! Team, No Age, and Manu Chao albums now. But who knows if I'll ever get around to it.

Untrue is totally dubstep gone trip-hop. I thought that was obvious. And I love the album for it.

(Actually, I've otherwise had pretty much no use for dubstep, but tip-hop is a-ok by me.)

*trip-hop, although Q-Tip and T.I.P. are good by me, too

So, I should probably ask Bob this myself, but does anybody understand why he would think "Feminists don't have a sense of humor" is such a hilarious line? (Is it just that, like, Nellie McKay is a feminist, and she clearly has a sense of humor, so it's ironic? Cute, I guess, but it's hard to see why it would leave anybody rolling on the floor. Though no doubt it's funnier in the context of the song, at least for people who like Nellie.) (I don't hate her, though I also haven't paid that much attention.)

Keyshia Cole
"Just Like You" (Geffen)
Well, maybe not exactly like you ("Let It Go," "Just Like You").

The hell is this supposed to mean?

Amerie
"Work That"
("Because I Love It" [Sony/BMG])

The choice cut on the Amerie album is from the MJB album?

http://music.msn.com/music/consumerguide/dudofthemonth
Have to say, I kind of agree with him regarding Stars of the Lid.

Yeah, don't know the record but I liked that opening line: One of those records -- they abound in "post-rock" -- that get nothing but raves because only believers bother to listen.

The-Dream haters? Go suck an egg!

Love,
Matlock

I am going to be soooo bummed when the CG eventually ends.

Chuck, he's just saying that (allegedly) some netcrits didn't even get it was a joke while the friends he plays it for "giggle." Giggle is not rolling on the floor.

This is gonna make me revisit No Age (whose lyrical and emotional content really passed me by) and Burial (though "not quite Maxinquaye" equals "not quite I barely care when my co-workers throw this on every few months").

I love how the CG comes out on the first of the month even if the first is a sunday.

Maybe he's just lazy -- it's not like he's a work ethic guy.

haha

He's got his little traps and his foibles and his insular references (most good guitar rock bands wanna be the Voidoids you know) and any artist that has ever personally criticized him is honored with As to A-s for life, but he's a sixtysomething who says sharp, insightful, atypical stuff about music by twentysomethings. That's outstanding.

i hate how the CG comes out on the first of the month, rather than the 31st or the 30th or the 29th or...

are you busy depositing checks or something?

You know something, anthony is right.
(xpost)

Cute, I guess, but it's hard to see why it would leave anybody rolling on the floor.

True, but Xgau never said it would leave anybody rolling on the floor - he said it made the people he played it for giggle - which sounds about right to me.

And it is funnier with the music.

Nellie McKay is funny!

She is - though her sense of humor is pretty far down the list of things I would cite as her best qualities though - somewhere below her sense of melody, knack for an unsual arrangement, wide-open ears, formal playfulness, lovely voice, etc.

xgau is obviously less of a woman-hater than i am, but i think he's missing that those netcrits look at her funny because the line signifies as 'nellie mckay don't have no sense of humor'. she's the girl who thinks she's put upon because she's a girl, not because she's a nerd. randy newman had less self-regard and a smaller stuffed-animal collection.

oh i missed this part

I agree -- she's scattered, unfinished, self-indulgent. But she's also ebullient, funny and political.

maybe I should seek out more of the latter, but the former put me off doing so

I have nothing against her or her stuffed animals, and Anthony and O. Nate are right -- xgau said giggle, not rofl. I guess the line doesn't even make me giggle, at least not on paper. Though right: with music attached, it well might. (On the other hand, maybe the netcrits -- who I haven't read -- just didn't think the joke was even worth giggling about.)

[One of those records -- they abound in "post-rock" -- that get nothing but raves because only believers bother to listen.

And yeah, this is great -- The metacritic fallacy in a nutshell. (Assuming Stars on the Lid scored high there.)

randy newman had less self-regard and a smaller stuffed-animal collection

And a much squeakier voice.

yup, haha -- 88% "universal acclaim" (xpost)

Assuming Stars on the Lid scored high there.
They did — #4 in 2007, behind Burial, The Field and Radiohead.

And a much squeakier voice

kinda like the yelp of fellow jew ezra koenig. i haven't studied carefully the loveliness of her voice, but someone who's really looking for that sort of quality might prefer, say, kelli o'hara, at least in her more tasteful operatic mode. i realize that xgau's writing in the contexts of a) rock and b) subbacultcha, but i'm not gonna give him too much ground there if he's puzzled at why a generation of kids for whom 1985 rather than 1955 is retro haven't rushed to crown her their queen.

she's likely smarter and more interesting and probably more tuneful than fiona apple, but the latter simply deploys her talent rather than saying 'look at me, i'm so talented' at every turn.

oh, the voice comment was you, not xgau, i see

I'm not surprised that the youth generation hasn't rushed to crown her either. And I agree that her sensibility is more 1950s than it is 1980s or 2000s or whatever. I actually don't care too much whether she garners mainstream success, and judging by the fact that her albums are getting weirder, I don't think she does either.

yeah, i noticed the getting weirder part too, which i think was part of what put me off her

i'm kinda disappointed xgau didn't uncharacteristically laud technical skill - i was all set with my petitions on behalf of mariah carey and the indigo girls and hair metal

any artist that has ever personally criticized him is honored with As to A-s for life

Who else beside Lou Reed? He also likes artists who are married. But yeah, he is one of the greats.

Whoops, make believe those are italics, not a hot link.

Sonic Youth have gotten a lot of good reviews from him, but didn't start getting consistent A's for every album until about 5 years after "I Killed Christgau With My Big Fuckin' Dick."

i.e. when they started improving.

Except after that, they stopped improving. And he kept giving them A's anyway. (Of course, he wouldn't agree that they stopped improving.)

Either way, I think there are enough differing opinions about SY's catalog that it's not fair to just say "of course Sister was the first album that got an A, they weren't very good until then."

Also, I think Xgau started liking Pavement/Malkmus more after they gave him a coded shout-out on "Embassy Row":

Old intuition, on your dock we’re fishin’,
Come on now, give us a grade,
A for effort, and a B for delivery,
C for devotion, when the world starts encroaching on your plans.
Where is the savoir, where is the savoir -- he’s not here right now.
Where is the savoir, where is the savoir-faire?

I don't think that necessarily refers to him, and the grades seem to have worsened after it

http://image.listen.com/img/170x170/8/2/7/9/279728_170x170.jpg
You believe it or not
I wanted to play football for The Dean

I think the Xgau interpretation is most likely. And, fwiw, the albums worsened after that - but Malkmus is still getting consistently favorable Xgau reviews for his wilderness-years solo career.

xpost

i don't know the solo stuff so can't judge how much the falloff, but he's getting honorable mentions to A-'s rather than consistent A's with a few A-'s

I just think that the B+'s and A-'s now, for a solo career that is increasingly ignored by other critics, stand out more than A to A-'s did for a band that was a widely-hailed critical darling. Perhaps it just shows Xgau's loyalty.

I don't think Xgau does much following of other critics

That SOTL review kind of sums up much of what I like, dislike, and find puzzling about him. The first sentence is classic. The review (like his AFI review) basically summarizes what I like about an album he doesn't (though I don't think it's their best in this case). Then he ends with a snide quip, indicating that it's not his cup of tea.

Holy shit, I just noticed that Nine Inch Nails is on his list!

(I admire the eclecticism of his list. I'm mildly curious, though, whether he's even still writing for an audience that's bigger than the kind of people who read this board. Are there a lot of people out there going "Holy shit, I better pick up Nigeria Special, Fountains of Wayne, a new Public Enemy album, Girl Talk, and Los Campesinas!"? For this, he's classic.)

(Actually, the SOTL review is completely readable as straightforward grammatical English so it doesn't sum up the things I dislike about him.

I don't think Xgau does much following of other critics

-- gabbneb, Friday, February 1, 2008 1:56 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Really? It seems to me like a whole lot of what he writes about records is in reaction to what other critics have already said (or at least about whether it's generally been getting good or negative reviews).

The SOTL review would surely seem to suggest that.

Really? It seems to me like a whole lot of what he writes about records is in reaction to what other critics have already said

What I said (i.e., I mean "following" in the sense of tuning opinions to, rather than keeping up with)

xp

Depends what you mean by "following." He's obviously very curious about what other critics are saying (hell, he ran a critics poll for a few decades and wrote a lengthy essay about it every year, and he quotes or refers to plenty of critics all through that Consumer Guide), and he's pretty meticulous about keeping up with most of the albums that score in the Pazz & Jop (and now Idolator) polls (and on metacritic, apparently.) So he's certainly not oblivious to what other critics are saying; far from it.

or maybe I misunderstood that nate meant that the sum of other critical opinion might be more likely to be correct than xgau, a thought that would never occur to me

He's stated in the past that he reviews albums that he's missed that charted in P&J. I think he likes to correct the balance on albums that he feels are unfairly maligned or praised at the time of these year-end things.

One of his good qualities is that he is not a bandwagon-jumper. He also seems willing to seek out the new work of artists he's liked in the past, regardless of their current status in the music world.

it seems to me that he mentions critical responses to albums more than most critics and i think it has a lot to do with the fact that he doesn't have any deadlines for reviewing things for the consumer guide so he's constantly reviewing things that have been through their critical cycle

The A-list perennials that have complained about his shizz include Lou Reed, Sonic Youth, Public Enemy (that whole thing with tate) and Sleater-Kinney (Corin Tucker evidently wrote to him taking offense at some reference to kiss-blowing during an early show or something). I think I heard Billy Joel used to read one of his reviews on stage and then tear it up, so there's the exception that proves the rule.

Supposedly Michael Gira sent the dude some spooge in an envelope, and oddly Xgau has ignored his career ever since 1984, when the Swans got a B+ (putting them above SY at the time!).

I feel like lately he's been really overrating a lot of Hip Hop.

1. Hip Hop is Dead
2. Kingdom Come
3. 8 Diagrams
4. Curtis

Were all overrated by him in my opinion.

Also, I didn't hear Soulja Boy's whole album, but was that really an A-?

Once saw the Tuff Darts dedicate "Slash" to his mother. I don't think it helped their career much, though in fairness they never put out another album. Not until recently anyway. Sadly their guitarist just passed away of a heart attack.

I guess the rule is if you're gonna complain you ought to at least be funny about it.

"I didn't hear Soulja Boy's whole album, but was that really an A-?"

YAHHH TRICK YAHHH!!!!!

he was so exquisitely RONG about sonic youth at first, all the subsequent A's seem like over-compensation.

RONG!

And Soulja Boy deserves an A.

I feel like lately he's been really overrating a lot of Hip Hop.

1. Hip Hop is Dead
2. Kingdom Come
3. 8 Diagrams
4. Curtis

Were all overrated by him in my opinion.

Also, I didn't hear Soulja Boy's whole album, but was that really an A-?

-- Colin_C., Friday, February 1, 2008 9:37 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

was definitely better than the other four you mention

Ok deej David Drake

uh, wasn't Curtis his Dud Of The Month?

and didn't he give Kingdom Come merely an honorable mention? Which yeah, is overrating it, but its not like he gave it a rave.

http://robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?name=kingdom+come

a humongous abstraction perfect for flattening the medulla oblongata

haha - he could be talking about Kingdom Come!

All of those albums I listed, I can't even listen to all the way through due to the terrible beats and in many cases terrible rapping.

Most of them shouldn't have been anywhere close to Honorable mention or even B, let alone A- status.

He gave Kingdom Come the same grade as Reasonable Doubt!

I feel like his grades have been inflated lately.

I'm sorry, he gave Kingdom Come the same grade as Illmatic and a better grade than Reasonable Doubt!

www.robertchristgau.com

I don't know maybe I'm trippin.

I'm listenin to Kingdom Come via Youtube and I'm actually enjoying it.

http://www.najp.org/articles/

Okay, rock critics of ILM, post your heights.

Haha he's got a point, the shortest I've ever felt was the one time I hung out with Tom and Jess at the same time, since I'm only just a little over 6 feet tall (I think Tom is actually more like 6'11" than what Christgau guessed).

I'm 6'4" and am so not used to being around people taller than me (always was the tallest kid in class from kindergarden through high school) that I almost have a bit of a phobia about it. Obviously picked the wrong scene to roll with.

Yeah, try having a conversation with both Tom and Jim Breihan, and you feel like a speck.

I thought about trying to get a rock crit basketball team together when I move to NY but now I'm worried I'd wind up the sixth man or something.

LOLZ at "unless Harvell is checking in electronically from his native B'More"

native!

"why the fuck else would he have moved back?"

I object more to the apostrophe. "B'More" sounds Irish.

xhuxk otm

In a way I'm happy Xgau's gonna lapse into blogger banality, like the rest of us. If he writes about the shortest rockcrits, I hope I make the cut.

You and Nick Sylvester.

lol

that basketball team would suck

yeah I think Tom even told me once that he's terrible at b-ball, despite constantly being egged on by people to play because of his height.

Alfred, I don't remember you as being particularly short. Did you shrink since I met you or am I just height-ignorant?

5'6, but I look down on everyone.

I suck at it too, I was only good for rebounds as a kid.

I love how my friends almost played a practical joke on Tom at a show a while back because he was the only other freakishly tall beardy dude in the room.

I'm just short of six feet, so I would volunteer to run the point with my mad ball-handling skills (um waht)...except I'm not a rock critic!

just like your website is "not a blog," right? ::nedwinky::

Al if you weren't such a good ambassador for quirky Baltimore locations I would be kicking your ass right now. And don't call me "nedwinky."

haha dude you're always so defensive! i respect your "I'm not a rapper" schtick, though.

Matt = "I'm a real nigga/ And I don't like rock critics"

I will never quote Young Jeezy again, I promise.

i love rock critics and i'm not a real nigga

wrong Matt

I'm 6'2", but don't play basketball.

xp
I don't consider myself a rock critic because a) I am not very critical, and b) I don't focus on rock, or even pop. Mostly jazz these days, due to very zealous promo dudes who forgot to take me off the list when I left those other websites.

And who says I'm defensive? FUCK YOU PAL I"M NOT DEFENSIVE!!!!

im 5'9 and i love basketball

im 5' 7'' and i love basketball

im almost 5'6" and I think "horse" is okay.

(well, "pig," at least.)

and i'm kind of amazed xgau didn't think of doug simmons and rob sheffield, who are both pretty tall.

Strictly threes and assists.

Sheffield plays short with the ironic hunch.

I'm 6'0 and would like basketball a lot more if I didn't suck at it.

I was great in 8th grade, but by 10th grade I was 15th off the bench on a 17-man squad, and I injured my knee so badly that I have never really played again. OMG SO MANY PARALLELS TO MY MUSIC WRITING "CAREER".

Last time I played basketball (year after college maybe?) I pulled a muscle by turning too quickly. I was standing still, turned to move, and then fell to the ground in pain. My friends refused to believe me. "Dude, you weren't even doing anything." Had to go to the doctor when my knee swelled up.

Don't forget to stretch, lardass crits!

I'm 6'0 and would like basketball a lot more if I didn't suck at it.

-- The Reverend, Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:00 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

^^^^ this

"(and also because that's where and what he is--clever fellow, Harvilla)"

The words in italics scrambled my brain for a couple seconds.

i'm 6'5 suck at b-ball even tho i played a bit in junior high. thank god i'm old enough that strangers have quit making "hey, do you play b-ball?" quips

lol @ this thread turning into a confessional for message board music nerds who suck at sports

xgau could be our matthau-like coach

"If you put your effort and concentration into playing to your potential, to be the best that you can be, I don't care what the scoreboard says at the end of the game, in my consumer guide we're gonna be winners."

^dud of the month

pipe down, shorty

sorry i couldn't pass it up

haha i love this idea. "Come on, you little bastards are playing like Captain and Tennille out there!"

the spazzy white-haired kid rolls his eyes, "Oh, shit, now he's gonna tell us about how awesome New York Dolls were at breaking the half-court trap."

5'8", ish.

you mean there isn't already an ILM softball team? WTF? What did all my dues goes towards then? I was told we were getting new uniforms.

joy of cooking lol

I'm taller than David Wild, unless Ronnie James Dio is sitting on his shoulders.

Christgau read that Arctic Monkeys, Vampire Weekend thread and quotes Scott P from Pitchfork's post

Hilarious review of Chinese Democracy in this month's CG.

woah he reviews sleeping in the aviary! crazy

Yeah, he gave CD a higher grade than he bestowed on the GNR's.

he gave the Spaghetti Incident a deserved A-

i like that he likes los campesinos

(higher than CD)

the highlight of this month for me was the tom breiding mention

but i'm not really loving his Wayne crush

ha, love the bon iver/sleeping in the aviary distinction. if there were any justice anywhere sleeping in the aviary would be selling places out too

msn cg's new format is shit

click THREE times just to read a capsule review? for each review? uh no thanks. sorry bob, after 30+ years of reading CG at this point in life Ive got other priorities

i care less about the redesign - mildly annoying but looks nice enough - and more about the disappearance of the prior month's CG whenever the new one appears

is there some sort of standard time period before it gets added to the archive or is it just whenever they figure it out?

it sucks. will wait til they're put up on his site to read from now on. (holy shit, it's been about 30 years for me too!)

Yeah, I know that more clicks are good for advertisers, but not so much if fewer people are willing to do the clicking. I'm done with that sight.

um, "site"

Boy, that design is horrible. What's up with the Bat for Lashes page? Is there supposed to be copy on that page? I thought he usually wrote something on the Dud of the Month.

I mean, try and figure out what this page is:

http://music.msn.com/music/test/consumerguide/?photoidx=14

It looks like they used their photo gallery template for this?

this is horrible

Wow, that's even worse than I expected. I like how the back/next buttons move a few mm's with each page. For a while there, trying to click ahead, I realized I had just been absentmindedly clicking back and next, one after the other, going nowhere.

Oh you can actually read the Dud of the Month review. If you notice, it flashes for a nanosecond before a fucking ad appears. So "all" you have to do is reload the page and stop it quickly before the ad appears. Isn't that user friendly? Grrrr...

Here's the Bat for Lashes review in the hopes of steering readers away from this garbage design until it changes back to something you don't have to click through 900 times.

May 2009

Dud of the Month:

Bat for Lashes: "Two Suns" (Astralwerks)
Grade: C

The opening "Glass" does indeed deploy what a Pitchfork raver designates a "strange mix of elements (chamber pop, prog metal, new age -- what?) magically coalesced into some entirely new genre that I wish existed and yet still can't quite wrap my brain around." If you suspect, correctly, that this so-called genre is unworthy of your brainlength, Natasha Khan will make you cringe. Compared to Kate Bush, Bjork, even Joanna Newsom, she's an etherhead, as ill-informed about astronomy as she is about love. That said, the beauteous Eurasian hippie does get a little grounded when she dons a blonde wig and assumes the persona of Pearl, who moans that she's "evil, evil," though to me she just seems confused. Grounded or ethereal, Khan has the kind of pretty, proper British accent that young men find fetching when linked to ill-informed mentions of goodbye beds and licking her clean. She has hitched her modest talent to an art-rock wagon she won't outpace anytime soon.

xgau has long been a puzzle to me, I get no entertainment from the guys writing, even when I agree with it.

Can anyone point to a fine piece of writing in any of these reviews? I don't mean accurate ones, I mean ones with interesting perspectives or even just well put together prose? That Bats for Lashes review is just drivel.

oh god

lol @ old bob speculating about what young men like

That Bats for Lashes review is just drivel. I laughed out loud.

Xgau in still not liking art-rock shocker!

lol @ site, lol @ review (the latter is pretty good/funny)

how the fuck can Microsoft not make a decent site. jeez. idiots.

The older site layout was great--three clicks, each one worth it, with archives on the side. Why ruin it?

That Lady Sovereign review is poetry though, to answer the question above...

too bad the record stinks

U R rong

"Food Play" is totally unlistenable

no! i just listened to the album for the first time today. it's way better than i expected, and especially liked "food play." "you can cover me in porridge" -- i guess either you think that's funny or you don't.

but yes, the layout sucks. if i want to read something online, i want to READ SOMETHING ONLINE -- not have to go on a treasure hunt for it.

I'm being bullheaded here: a lot of the album isn't awful, but it's not especially inviting to me (and I liked Public Warning); "Food Play" isn't so much "unlistenable" or "unfunny" as nauseous-making.

And yes, the layout on CG is absolutely awful. I tried KJB's method to see if I could actually find the Dud of the Month blurb and had no luck at all. What a fiasco.

I was hoping this revive would be about the terrible new formatting.

click THREE times just to read a capsule review? for each review? uh no thanks. sorry bob, after 30+ years of reading CG at this point in life Ive got other priorities

Lady Sovereign LP is good; "Food Fight" not one of the best cuts but no worse than the song that samples the Cure and that'd be ignorable otherwise.

Xgau CG unreadable; not his fault I assume. And right, I can't find the Bat For Lashes blurb either. (Though a "C" seems about right, from what I've heard of that band.)

As for fresh perspectives and interesting prose, I assume there's some in there (since there's always some in there), but this month it's too much trouble to figure out where.

the CG layout's way worse, much more cluttered than lots of music he's bitched about 30+ years now. but he broke them down, no mercy shown. full circle RC

Actually a valid point. But having seen Xgau in action many times up against tech and art dept people who were idiots, I have a hunch he's torn somebody at MSN a new asshole by now, or will soon.

xgau has set me straight many times. just a little nonplussed at how hard the CG is to deal with, since he's all about concision and economy of language/presentation

The older site layout was great--three clicks, each one worth it, with archives on the side. Why ruin it?

Three pages = three pages' worth of ads.

Fifteen pages = fifteen pages' worth of ads.

Also pageview numbers I assume. (Convince advertisers that the site is being read more than it actually is, though it's hard to believe advertisers would be so naive to buy the trick at this point.)

And when the readership plummets as readers decide they don't have time to put up with all the annoying clicking, that kind of wrecks that plan anyway.

I'd assumed online advertising/media would be years past blatantly juking the stats.

Are you kidding? It's only just begun.

Maybe, I just figure if I'm vaguely aware of anything having to do with online, then it's old news to people who have to know this stuff for a living, like whoever's buying and selling ads for this page.

On second glance, I don't see any ads on these pages.

Still looks exactly the same here, esp. Dud of the Month which doesn't even pretend to show up anywhere on the page.

xp: Are you sure you don't have an ad blocker? The ads are very clearly showing for me.

I opened it in IE8 (so slow to load an MS site it is funny) to see what it was supposed to look like, and nothing changed except the Tivo ad got added. If I do the extra click to get the full 6 sentences of the review, the add doesn't change or reload, just moves an 2 inches down the page.

Maybe this is to make it difficult for robots to copy all the content for fake-search ad-hit sites. Maybe it is just crap like so many new things on the net.

I reported Music.MSN.com to Microsoft Safe Filter as a potentially unsafe site. It took so long to load I became afraid it was being malicious.

Maybe the tech department at MSN is trying to make the navigating experience reflect Xgau's own idiosyncratic, often obscure prose. Maybe they're taking it on as an artform and a statement. Why shouldn't the site be as difficult to figure out as some of Xgau's most cryptic reviews. If it takes an informed reader a half-dozen reads to figure out what the hell he's getting at, why not complicate matters with a website that's equally puzzling?

Of course that's not what's happening and if it was, it would be more fitting for Meltzer. That said, I enjoy Xgau's cryptic riffing for the most part. I've often wondered if anyone is allowed to edit him. If they are, what are those sessions like? He's certainly earned his right to be in the driver's seat, but so have plenty of others who still face the rigors of meddlesome editorial staffs -- though, I guess in the new economy that's cut back a lot and those who still have jobs have less time to worry about a word choice...

It's definitely among the more annoying ways to read a site. But I'm sure someone will come up with something worse. There's always a new redesign in the making. My mind slips, but what was the name of that music mag in the 90s with the layouts that made it impossible to read the pieces?

Raygun

Yes, thanks! Did anyone think Raygun was a good idea --that is, the idea of such complex layouts?

Bing: Get more info

Ugh I know. I kept looking for the Bing Crosby review. The format is just gruesome to trudge through.

This is probably not the place to ask but are advertisers really that naive about these fake clicks? Check out the brief film reviews on the Chicago Reader website. For instance, in order to read the entirety of this nifty, 230-word Dave Kehr review of The Ninth Configuration, you have to click "more" to get the next few measly sentences.

To be or...(click MORE to find out what Hamlet says next!)

omg

Barring miracles unlikely to ensue, this is the final edition of Christgau's Consumer Guide, which MSN has decided no longer suits its editorial purposes. The CG has generally required a seven-days-a-week time commitment over the 41 years I've written it, and I'm grateful to MSN for paying me what the work was worth over the three-and-a-half years I published it here. But though I always enjoyed the work, work it was, and I've long been aware there were other things I could be doing with my ears. So while I have every intention of keeping up with popular music as it evolves, being less encyclopedic about it will come as a relief as well as a loss.

http://music.msn.com/music/consumerguide/

:(

damn

Christgau hasn't meant as much to me as Kael, Marcus, or Bill James, but he's nonetheless been someone whose opinions I've been compelled to track down since first reading him around '79 or '80. (I came to him second-hand, through his Creem reprints.) And he has exerted a big influence on me, in ways I'm probably not even aware of. So if that's it, this is indeed a sad occasion.

dang, the guy turned me on to so much damn essential African Music. i will miss that the most. hope you enjoy your future Bob'gau!!!

Good riddance

Bill Magill to Robert Christgau: "Suck It"

aXgau

This blows. I'm sure the CG will pop up in some form somewhere. But this is such a bummer, he's introduced me to more good music than anybody else on Earth.

there are a lot of great lines in those sign-off reviews: "Literary lights write novels about such stuff now, right? Why do I doubt there's one with as much emotional impact, not to mention compression? That's why we prefer music" - "They're playing for their contemporaries, who apparently have not a care in the world except those that proceed naturally from play" - "Sweetening his electrobeats with concessions to tune, his gibes with pained entreaties and funny stumbles, he reaccesses the humanist inside him as if that's every hipster's right -- which it pretty much is"
going out on a high note

Pfork, Rolling Stone or someplace else "big" (is there anywhere else?) would be wise to pick up a highly esteemed critic, if not for the Consumer Guide, then just as a general contributor and/or columnist.

Every time I read stupid shit in any prominent magazine/newspaper/website that pays its writers, I'll think, "And the editor could have been paying for the Consumer Guide."

it seems like it would be hard for an outlet like rolling stone to pick up the consumer guide since they're already paying a group of writers to do capsule reviews about a similar range of music. pitchfork could pull it off as a monthly column without the retread being a problem but i think taste is too in conflict with the rest of the site for that to work (he gives Fall Be Kind a http://www.robertchristgau.com/icon/x2.gif in that last CG)...not that it isn't fun to think about this type of thing in what if the celtics created some cap room and signed lebron type of way.

tbh i wouldnt even be disappointed if this ends up freeing him to write more longer pieces. as enjoyable as the CGs are his most notable recent work has been his barnes and nobles pieces (vampire weekend, lil wayne, year end recaps, etc..) imo

pretty much this ^^

His CG started losing its fizz a few months ago -- maybe his heart is in his essays now (the VW one is one of his best in recent years).

damn, i loved CG

i'm kinda glad for this happened, tbh, since it will hopefully free him to write more (and at greater length) about shit he actually cares about--rather than, you know, the latest indie-hype crap that pfork and their ilk already cover ad nauseam, say. more world music, jazz, rap, etc.

i hope he can make money so he can, you know, eat and stuff.

Robert Christgau says goodbye to the Consumer Guide: An exit interview

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2010/07/robert-christgau-says-goodbye-to-the-consumer-guide-an-exit-interview.html

"End of an Era"? by Robert Christgau

http://www.najp.org/articles/2010/07/end-of-an-era.html

It would be great to see an established magazine pick up his column for no other reason than his championing of world music.

i'm kinda glad for this happened, tbh, since it will hopefully free him to write more (and at greater length) about shit he actually cares about--rather than, you know, the latest indie-hype crap that pfork and their ilk already cover ad nauseam, say. more world music, jazz, rap, etc.

― "enduring lack of street cred" (Ioannis), Friday, July 2, 2010 2:13 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah, there's tons of bitching upthread about the quality of the MSN site and how hard it was to browse, and his monthly selections were getting more and more arbitrary every month -- recently he reviewed 2 Lil Wayne records and 2 Paul Barman records in the same month, instead of like spreading around his coverage to a wider range of stuff. i mean i know he can't be encyclopedic and hear EVERYTHING like he used to, nobody can, but the filter he was using was weird.

recently he reviewed 2 Lil Wayne records and 2 Paul Barman records in the same month

fwiw, he's always done things like this (for years, anyway) -- wasn't a new development.

yeah, he had been offering up themed (indie, rap, jazz, Africa) cg's for ages. i would think it should come as a great relief for him to no longer have to make even a pretense of keeping up with the zeitgeist. surely dude's earned a break if anyone in the music crit world has.

oh I know he's done stuff like that before. but i mean specifically, dedicating that much dink (haha) to Lil Wayne and Paul Barman in 2010. ugh.

the filter he was using was weird.

weird filters = a plus not a minus imo

oh i know. i just mean, it makes an odd contrast to the old CGs when he actually good kind of survey the landscape in a halfway comprehensive way.

This guy had a serious tin ear on certain types of music. See ya later.

everyone has a serious tin ear on "certain types of music." it's also sometimes called a confluence of "taste" and "abiding interests" and "subjectivity." the guy's not a goddamned robot pumping out neutral koans every week/month on the contents of the new releases rack.

alternately: stfu bill magill.

will miss the cg -- though not as much i would have, say, a decade ago; often for reasons similar to bill magill's! -- but the xgau stuff that's lingered with me through the years has always been the longform shit, so ride on, old dude.

old CGs when he actually good kind of survey the landscape in a halfway comprehensive way.

He'd been by necessity moving away from this, more and more, since the CG went all-A-and-B+ (plus a dud) in the early '90s, though. That is, basically when the landscape -- # of releases -- got too huge to survey.

yeah, fair enough. i'm just saying: Rebirth and Barman.

al i've had enough of your tin ear as regards paul barman

Not to get all pretentious or anything, but I love Tommy Lee Jones' opening voiceover in No Country for Old Men, which I saw for about the tenth time last week: "I always liked to hear about the old timers. Never missed a chance to do so...You can't help but compare yourself against the old timers. Can't help but wonder how they would've operated these times." Yes, I realize that Christgau and Marcus and the rest would hate such a connection. And I also realize that many of them are still very much operating in these times. But I'm sure that people like myself who've been at this for a while have those people in the back of our minds when we write, and also that, like Jones' character, we're somewhat perplexed by changes in the landscape in which the old timers operated and the landscape today.

"alternately: stfu bill magill."

Nah, I think the guy sucks and will continue to do so. I agree with you that there is a confluence of taste, abiding interests and subjectivity, but I can apply those to my judgment of "rock critics" just like they can apply them to music.

Alternately: I think he sucks.

Really don't get the Geir-bashing around here when there's folks like Bill Magill posting.

I agree with you. I think everyone should have the same opinion about everything.

or at least metal, right?

in a post-St. Anger world, no one listens to metal that isn't St. Anger

Farewell, Robert Christgau's Consumer Guide

there exists a post-St. Anger world? where is this wacky world you speak of?

xp

I'm guessing Bill's hatred is 99% due to the fact that Xgau didn't like Black Sabbath

yeah but Bill you only hate xgau because he hates Black Sabbath right - I mean, I love Black Sabbath but guess what, Xgau's anti-positions on a lot of the stuff I disagree about him with are well-reasoned, well-written, cleverly put, and really readable. that's most of what matters about a critic: do he make a point that you can defend? does he do so in language that's a pleasure to read in some way? I don't give a shit that Xgau wouldn't like the Disfigured Dead album, but I trust that if he gave it a two-sentence dismissal, I'd enjoy reading those sentences. obligatory disclosure, he has been pretty kind to my stuff, though I've loved reading him since I was a little dude listening to records without any stuff of his own to critique.

lol xpost w/shakey

that's most of what matters about a critic: do he make a point that you can defend?

standing by this sentence btw lol

he do! he do!

i love sabbath but i think the backlash against the historic was that they were slighted by critics (which is OTM and well intentioned) has now almost resulted in sabbath being percieved as untouchable and having no flaws

"Xgau's anti-positions on a lot of the stuff I disagree about him with are well-reasoned, well-written, cleverly put, and really readable."

i think he could also be REALLY dismissive of stuff that i like/love. which has always been my biggest prob with bob. i got used to the fact that he hated most of the stuff that i like and that i didn't care about most of the stuff that he loved. i read him cuz he could be fun to read. and he was a good writer. even though i hardly ever agreed with him. which is a compliment, i think.

i'll admit to being an xgau stan, so this comes as a loss to me. about half my collection is stuff he likes. haha, i guess the other half is a hedge. it's an apollo/dionysus thing. anyway, here's xgau on his own prejudices:

As for my limitations, they're public and they're legion. Metal, art-rock, bluegrass, gospel, Irish folk, fusion jazz (arghh) -- all prejudices I'm prepared to defend and in most cases already have, but prejudices nevertheless. I pretty much lost reggae with dancehall; my acquaintance with most techno is a nodding one (zzzz); I've never really liked salsa even though Puerto Rico is one of my favorite places on earth and my daughter loves salsa and my niece and nephew run a music club in San Juan. (Admittedly, all my rels share my fondness for older Cuban-influenced styles.) Mostly the salsa thing is a matter of brass tuttis -- I've never liked most '30s jazz because I don't like tuttis. I also don't like flutes or vibraphones most of the time. As I said, I'm prepared to argue these prejudices -- even the tuttis. I oppose shows of virtuosity and undisciplined outpourings of self-regarding emotion on deeply held aesthetic grounds. But since I'm always ready to make specific exceptions to any such generalization, it would certainly be fair to argue that in all the above styles I'm not ready enough.

Oh yeah -- classical music. Did I mention classical music?

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/web/cgusers.php#prejudices

as someone who loves most 30's jazz, salsa, shows of virtuosity, metal, art-rock, techno...well, yeah, whatever. everyone is different. just seemed like for someone who listened to so much, there was even MORE stuff that he wouldn't give the time of day to.

The guy slammed Vol. 4 in the same review he admitted he never listedned to it. How is that well reasoned?

which is fine too. there is no law that says you must attempt to like techno or metal.

x-post

The following review ridicules two of my favorite bands while not once discussing the music, just about whether his cool critic friends play it or not. And I don't find it a "pleasure to read"-if a guy put a post like this on ILX he'd be SB'd or called a troll or something.

Master of Reality [Warner Bros., 1971]
As an increasingly regretful spearhead of the great Grand Funk switch, in which critics redefined GFR as a 1971 good old-fashioned rock and roll band even though I've never met a critic (myself included) who actually played the records, I feel entitled to put this in its place. Grand Funk is like an American white blues band of three years ago--dull. Black Sabbath is English--dull and decadent. I don't care how many rebels and incipient groovies are buying. I don't even care if the band members believe in their own Christian/satanist/liberal murk. This is a dim-witted, amoral exploitation. C-

What a dick.

"actually play the records" = "all the time," not "at all"

xgau not hanging with metal mike in 1971, i guess.

Obviously I'm going to miss the column but not because I've really agreed wholeheartedly with his tastes in, god, 15 years at least. Clearly we don't see eye-to-eye on techno-etc., his interest in trad-rock outweighs mine by a ton, etc. But I usually found something worth hearing in his pre-rock non-rock picks, most recently that fantastic The Panic Is On: The Great American Depression As Seen By The Common Man comp from Shanachie. (If you're on eMusic, it's here: http://www.emusic.com/album/Various-Artists-The-Panic-Is-On-The-Great-American-Depression-As-MP3-Download/11509090.html.) But I imagine he'll still be doing year-end lists; hope so, at least.

As an increasingly regretful spearhead of the great Grand Funk switch

if this phrase doesn't give you at least a small thrill, you have no business critiquing somebody's writing imo - it's a fucking great & hilarious phrase

my love for Sabbath is well known and not in question. I am not so humorless that I can't get off on somebody relentlessly attacking them, even on grounds I myself don't really consider valid (i.e., "didn't listen to the record"). Lighten the fuck up, Bill Magill.

christian liberalism in amoral exploitation shocker. i dunno, its hard to battle something written in 1971. lots of people hated black sabbath. lots of people still hate black sabbath. or they would if they heard them.

I don't get what the "great Grand Funk switch" is really a reference to tho. Does Xgau think they AREN'T a rock band or something?

for the record, his admission that he never listened to Vol IV appears in a review of their 1976 best-of, not in a review of Vol. IV.

cuz "dull", "American White blues band" and "good old fashioned rock and roll band" are not mutually exclusive, by any means

xp

the GFR thing just seems like a real red-herring to me, I don't see what they have to do with Sabbath at all really

"actually play the records" = "all the time," not "at all"

It says "actually playED the records" which implies never at all.

"if this phrase doesn't give you at least a small thrill, you have no business critiquing somebody's writing imo - it's a fucking great & hilarious phrase"

It's pretty stupid and conceited in my opinion, so no thrill here, small or otherwise. I'll make sure to go get your permission before I critique anything again, aerosmith.

I don't get what the "great Grand Funk switch" is really a reference to tho. Does Xgau think they AREN'T a rock band or something?

The switch from critics disliking GFR to liking them.

It says "actually playED the records" which implies never at all.

Bzzzzt.

"I don't see what they have to do with Sabbath at all really"

both influencing a thousand basement thud acts. if you had sabbath in yer stacks back then you had grand funk too.

"basement thud acts" = great phrase

for me the frustration is all about: okay, you don't like any metal or hard rock, so what should i listen to? old 97's and the wrens? okay, got it. he just doesn't give me any alternatives that i would be interested in at all. and that's not his job. i understand that. still frustrating. BECAUSE i think he's a good writer. and, you know, entertaining.

Vampire Weekend

I think he's a good writer too, but tbh I've never really read too much of his stuff

can't we all just thud along?

xps

what should i listen to? old 97's and the wrens? okay, got it.

oof! i hear ya, bro. thing is, i can listen to those guys. don't know what's wrong with me. they can be heartwarming. i can listen to foghat too. this is why if you want to get across my living room you have to negotiate stacks of vinyl.

i'm not saying that stuff is bad, really, just boring and safe like paste. the magazine and the stuff kids eat. i'd probably like it too if i heard it on the radio. but metal and metal-esque stuff of the last however many years really has excited me in so many ways and the fountains of wayne, um, haven't. (lotsa love for nerdy powerpop, in general.)

fountains of wayne and all that stuff just seems so FORMAL to me. they don't move me. they do what that stuff has been doing since the 70's. sedating. hey, i even thought the new teenage fan club album sounded good to me when i heard it on the radio last month. but it also sounded SO friggin' beholden to that template of sunshine beach boy anthems to the sun so sunny everything so sunny that it was a little much. can't imagine wanting to hear it on my own again.

i like sabbath a lot but i will never understand 70s thud rock.

I don't hear any of that in TFC really, scott

and there is a formalness to xgau's tastes. he likes his rock to do this and his country to do this and his rap to do this. he doesn't want anything to be TOO this or TOO that. and i'm not like that. most critics are though.

have you heard the new album? sounded very sunny to me. and byrds-y and chimey and all that. but i was listening from another room. i would actually listen to it again. i don't know their work well. the stuff i have heard didn't really thrill me over the years.

yep (posted on the thread about it actually) - I'm just quibbling with specifics really, cuz the Byrds and the Beach Boys do *really* different things imho, and lyrically the songs aren't really all that cheery for the most part. That being said, I don't think you're wrong about that kind of thing being really formal and staying within its chimey, sweet-sounding boundaries - the framework they're working within is clear, and they don't stray from it. I don't have a problem with that though, the appeal is more in the details, the minor touches, the strength of the melodies. Not everything needs to be innovative or groundbreaking or whatever. And certainly the uniformity of mood is not unique to modern rock - the same can be said of a lot of metal (which is often DARK ANGRY DARK ANGRY compared to your perception of TFC as always being sunny/happy)

i read that as him saying that he never heard critics playing GRAND FUNK records not Black Sabbath records

sometimes formality is a good way to communicate, though. like, the basics are already there, the language is common, so when that little telling detail or flourish or perception arrives, it can hit you more directly. Modern metal has evolved beyond language altogether, which is totally amazing and a little scary. i kinda like language, though. i'm not sure, all-told, you can really get away from it. buried in xgau's addiction to form, i think, is a humane impulse. that we can communicate and learn from each other & our differences. it's sort of hippie. i like that.

i really have no argument, i guess. i didn't mean to pick on the wrens or teenage fan club or whoever. they are good at what they do, i suppose. i certainly have no problem with ultra-orthodox approaches to genre or music. it depends on who is doing it. i do have a problem with ultra-orthodox rock crit though. and always have.

or what i mean to say is (i think): i don't have a set standard for excellence in music. there isn't a level music has to reach for me to take it seriously. and most critics have these levels and standards. its what makes them normal critics! hahaha. i just don't approach music that way. YES, i compare and contrast, but i don't have a checklist in my head that the music i hear must conform to or it fails for me. i would never dismiss an entire genre of music because its not my thing! it might very well be my thing tomorrow.

for me the frustration is all about: okay, you don't like any metal or hard rock, so what should i listen to? old 97's and the wrens? okay, got it. he just doesn't give me any alternatives that i would be interested in at all. and that's not his job. i understand that. still frustrating. BECAUSE i think he's a good writer. and, you know, entertaining.

― scott seward, Friday, July 2, 2010 6:06 PM
i seem to recall the he LOVES the clash (s/t) and the NY Dolls. two good examples of hard rock, imo.

i think it was either wittgenstein or glen benton that argued there was no way to get beyond language. and i'd think metal's huge international fanbase sorta torpedos the idea that it (or it's audience) isn't "communicating." (also, jesus, if any music is addicted to formalism, beyond techno, it's metal.)

i think essentially xgau's problem with metal, aside from the fact that he doesn't like the sound of it, is that it's too "humorless," which makes it anti-communicative in his eyes. (cracking jokes has always been a sign of underlying humanism to him, i think.) (witness why he loved flipper and shat on so many other hardcore bands.) no doubt plenty of metal bands (and fans) do take the shtick too seriously (and them taking it too seriously is sometimes plenty enjoyable [maybe even admirable] in its own right), but i think if he's still not hearing (knowing) humor in metal after all these years, in at least some bands, it's because he closed himself off to hearing it ages ago.

i would never dismiss an entire genre of music because its not my thing! it might very well be my thing tomorrow.

yeah I feel you on this. find it kinda alarming when people write off entire genres (gospel? wtf Xgau)

I was surprised he wrote that about gospel, even though he's an avowed atheist. He's commented favorably on several gospel comps.

To wit:
The Best of Dorothy Love-Coates & the Gospel Harmonettes [Nashboro, 1996]
Although Coates's rough-cut contralto steers her away from the stately professions of faith that bog down Mahalia Jackson and Marion Williams, the honorable Specialty best-of from her '50s glory days is still somewhat homogenized by its own humility. Captured here in the late '60s, she's wilder and faster, with plenty of guitar-organ-percussion augmenting the churchy piano. In short, she rocks. With the Harmonettes shouting, testifying, and showing off their high notes, the total effect is as awesome as any God-fearer could hope. A

Over in Glory: Favorites From Classic Gospel Groups [MCA, 1998]
All climax, all the time. In a music whose individual proponents make it their business to channel the universal, why not stick to their ecstasies and leave the mundane to their secular counterparts? Not that these impassioned tracks are above detail--one apogee among many is the Jackson Southernaires' painfully protracted tale of a son who reaches his dying mama just hours too late. But whether the glorious singers are getting happy or laying their burdens down, they're all in extremis, opening windows not into their mortal souls but into an idealized gospel experience--the spiritual release nonbelievers prize in a music that will never be their own. Connoisseurs may cry cartoon, but for most of us that's a plus, as are the articulated call-and-response built into the group format and the crassness of Peacock's Don Robey, not a guy who hesitated to besmirch the Lord with rhythm sections. Guitars either. A

The Rough Guide to South African Gospel [World Music Network, 2003]
The competing Gospel According to Earthworks is softer and slicker, with six pieces by two well-groomed Joseph Dumako groups who get the two they deserve on a 22-track mosaic replete with weird mbube, rough jive, one-shots the annotator can barely account for, and joyful affirmations of a belief system that's done black South Africans almost as much good as the union movement and considerably more bad. Praise God you can't understand the words. A-

i mean...if you look at the whole of his career, the bands he's championed and the bands he's slammed, it often comes down to who seems to have a fundamentally *positive* view of life on earth. not blind-eyed hippies who think everything's gonna be alright, always, no matter whether we fight back (or piss and moan) over what's shit about life. (as mentioned above: the clash.) but people who celebrate the positive aspects of being alive--family, community, laughing, fucking, being engaged, being smart (without being "smart"), however they're defined--either in their music or lyrics or general "stance." trying to make things better vs. wallowing in what's terrible. so OF COURSE he's not going to like metal. i, on the other hand, enjoy all of those positive things about life, but i also get off (on occasion) on somebody spraying me with pointless nihilism (real or imagined). i've long decided to agree to disagree with der dean on this point.

i think the one thing that throws off a lot of people about xgau -- me included at times -- is that he's not afraid to let moral value judgments act as the whole of the critique. if something rubs him seriously the wrong way, ethically or morally or politically, he can dismiss the sound of a record out of hand. and that's something that's almost completely absent in the "talk about the music and the music alone" vacuum of internet-era rock crit.

yeah I remember having to overcome significant cognitive dissonance over him dissing a lot of gangsta rap records but falling in love with eminem for being... humorous

from Scott Woods' rockcritics.com interview with Dave Marsh (early 2001):

Scott: So Christgau's one of the great editors...

Dave: Oh Christgau's great, I mean, fantastic. Tremendous insight into what you're trying to say, really good ideas about what you might do, he'll spot holes in your thinking--his sense of other people's language is not nearly so--at least when I worked with him, which is a long time ago--not nearly so insular as his own writing has become, or at least as I think it's become. No, he's a fantastic editor, just an absolutely fantastic editor.

Scott: Okay, but you do have--I'm not looking for you to slag some of your contemporaries or whatever, but you obviously have some problems with Christgau. You did that piece on the Pazz & Jop poll a few years ago.

Dave: Oh I have tremendous problems. I think I basically--first of all, I think he hates rock 'n' roll. I don't even think he makes much of a secret about it. If you actually look at his reviews, he doesn't like rock bands. He said some miserably--I can't think of a better way to put it but bigoted things about, for instance, the heavy metal audience. And I think he's promoted a fairly self-aggrandizing idea of what rock criticism oughta be. So, yeah, I disagree with all those things, and there's no reason to make a secret of it. And he carries on, and I carry on, and it doesn't make much difference to the clock ticking.

great posts strongo

he hated most of the stuff that i like and that i didn't care about most of the stuff that he loved

This is the beginning and the end of it for me, really. More the second half than the first. No matter how good a writer people say he is/was, what he's writing about has no relevance to or impact on my own engagement with music.

back in the early nineties I really hated N.W.A. for reasons I couldn't fully articulate; then I read his blurbs. Suddenly it made sense.

No matter how good a writer people say he is/was, what he's writing about has no relevance to or impact on my own engagement with music.

Care to give some examples?

Care to give some examples?

That's the thing; there are none to give. What he reviews, I don't listen to. Pretty much across the board.

But that's a considerable swath of music!

Not as considerable as you might think. There's a whole fuckin' lot left over.

Honestly curious, Phil, I thought you were both massively knowledgeable about and love many African bands and performers.

Looking just at the current/final guide, I've only heard two of the albums he reviews: Bako Dagnon and LCD Soundsystem. I liked the Dagnon, but didn't need him to tell me it was good, and I downloaded all three LCD albums the other week on a whim and was bored by all three. In the Honorable Mentions section, I've heard Erykah Badu, which I downloaded for someone else, and the Sweet Talks album is sitting here unplayed.

x-post w/Ned

I love lots of African stuff, but not the same stuff as Christgau, I don't think.

I was thinking the same thing as Ned, that much of his love of African music must overlap with your interests at least a little.

that's what I had in mind!

& 70s Miles.

getting xgau this shirt for xmas. cuz this i feel is his mantra:

http://www.teezetees.com/images/OH_GROW_UP_new.jpg

but didn't need him to tell me it was good

the point is not "needing anybody to tell anybody anything is good," because zero people need that: all music is free forever. the point is stuff that is fun to read and thoughts that are fun to parse, argue with, agree with, get mad at, be surprised by, etc.

seriously do people think the point of reading criticism is so you can say "finally, somebody who gets it...somebody who agrees with me!" if so, ah bartleby ah humanity I guess, strikes me as a ridiculously lame reason to read music criticism of any kind - why fucking bother, if people who don't agree with you are automatically people who "don't get it"?

^^^ clearly not an adam lambert fan

this all sort of goes back to the double-barreled meta-gag of audience critique/thing-of-actual-use-value of consumer guide name/format to begin with of course.

do people think the point of reading criticism is so you can say "finally, somebody who gets it...somebody who agrees with me!"

No, of course not. But there has to be some common ground. I'm not gonna read criticism of music I have no interest in listening to, just because the criticism is particularly well-phrased (and w/r/t Christgau, I'd even argue that point - I've never found the guy's writing all that glorious).

ok, well, we differ there - I'll read about any kind of music if I enjoy the writing. (I will read about any subject if I enjoy the writing, the only thing I have a real hard time with is seafaring lit., I start to nod off once people are goin all port & starboard & whatnot.) I think Xgau writes sentences that are a great pleasure to read.

man i cannot imagine a world where i always know what music/genres/subgenres/artists i categorically have no interest in ever hearing ever

you say that now but you never opened the "best of cuddlecore" ysi I sent you

I suppose you can't have a discussion about criticism without getting into "use" or "service." I've never particularly cared for opinions -- only arguments and good sentences.

"ok, well, we differ there - I'll read about any kind of music if I enjoy the writing."

yah, same here. i'll read about anything if i enjoy the writing. xgau does bug though. its the dismissiveness thing. that's really it. when i get the vibe from a critic that there are some things not worth thinking about or listening to, well, it bugs me! but most critics are more dogmatic and adult then me. i try and find the ones who are less like that. there aren't many!

I think Xgau writes sentences that are a great pleasure to read.

His sentences don't swing, for me. Whatever internal rhythm he's using to calibrate his phrases, it's too different from mine for me to dive in and just ride the wave. Reading Christgau is always like reading a textbook.

I will read about any subject if I enjoy the writing, the only thing I have a real hard time with is seafaring lit., I start to nod off once people are goin all port & starboard & whatnot.)

lol

meiburg from shearwater loves the shit outta seafaring lit, I used to see him with these multi-volume men at sea type things and I would think "oh man buddy better you than me"

oh man -- don't tell Shearwater what xgau thought of'em.

on Rook:

With funding long at risk in the classical sector--the crooks getting those AIG bonuses are more into Cristal and hotties--Jonathan Meiburg is but one of many trained vocalists seeking his fortune in what is crudely classified pop. And he's had some moments. But on his most acclaimed work of art, his ecological doomshow reaches an apogee and nadir. "We'll sleep until the world of man is paralyzed," croon "the ambulance men" in a title tune about piles of dead black birds. I'll leave it to those who care to determine what exactly the birds and ambulance men are doing there. Meiburg's cultivated sweetness bespeaks contempt for the world of man as he perceives it, rendering his projections both dubious and useless, so nertz to him. C-

I think most bands understand that the most unseemly look you can give another artist is "hey man did you see this bad review of your work"

points for using the word nertz in a review

it's kind of incredible that there's apparently no other publication willing to pay for him to continue to write this. you know the genre's fucked when no one's even interested in hiring the best of the best

obvious reason for unwillingness to take him on, though, would be that most people who read rock criticism are probably younger people (like myself), many of whom have no idea who Xgau is

he doesn't like animal collective OR chillwave. he's a dinosaur.

drill, baby, drill!

(i'll get me hat...)

obvious reason for unwillingness to take him on, though, would be that most people who read rock criticism are probably younger people (like myself), many of whom have no idea who Xgau is

right because why would young people interested in reading rock criticism have any interest in reading a guy generally conceded to be one of the best ever to write it

whose work is freely available online

people in not knowing about stuff shocker.

My point is that I'd assume that most people my age who read music criticism are approaching it as a buyer's guide. They seek out writing from a specific publication or set of publications that cater to what they're interested in, and they look for positive reviews to see what records they should spend their time and attention on.

No matter who writes a BNM review for P4k--whether it's Xgau or some no name--tons of kids are still gonna go and check that record out. And I'd assume that the majority of readers don't really care about the specific content of a review beyond the intensity of a thumbs up or thumbs down.

And yeah, there'll always be people who actually do care about the arguments, language, etc. contained within the reviews themselves, but those people will probably always be in the minority.

it's kind of incredible that there's apparently no other publication willing to pay for him to continue to write this. you know the genre's fucked when no one's even interested in hiring the best of the best

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if Xgau just hung it up without bothering to ask around. Seems like he views the end of the CG as an inevitability and, in some ways, a relief.

you're right, that could totally be the case

you know, i think the kids today can live without xgau. they need more chuck eddy in their lives though.

i imagine that xgau was more of an expense than yr average rock writer, too?

My point is that I'd assume that most people my age who read music criticism are approaching it as a buyer's guide

I'm not sure this is a generational thing.

fair point!

hey i've chucked a lot of criticism xgau's way but the limitations to his taste never struck me as particularly bothersome. i find it really, really weird that he doesn't like "classical music" (really?! all of it? even the stuff that isn't "classical"?) but i prefer to judge him on what he says about the stuff he does pretend to understand. which means i like him a lot of time, dislike him a lot of time, and in general find his approach to evaluating music impressive and entertaining but quite limited.

chuck eddy never bothered to explain to me (after i asked, politely if i recall) what he means when he said something "just ROCKS"--instead he just ridiculed me for asking the question. dude plays the anti-intellectual card when it's convenient. that really irritates me. i can't really remember the other reasons why his posts to ILM really irritated me once upon a time.

I'm glad I cut and pasted the lede from this month's CG up above, because it now reads differently. From:

"which MSN has decided no longer suits its editorial purposes"

to:

"which MSN will no longer publish following this month's edition."

Get me legal!

they're trying to keep things mysterious

His bit on his prejudices... there something about being "prepared to argue" about why flutes and vibraphones suck that summarizes really well what he's about.

I remember him giving an F to one record because it was missing from the sleeve.

lol someone please dig that review up

(that was an xpost to The guy slammed Vol. 4 in the same review he admitted he never listedned to it. How is that well reasoned?, but I forgot to paste it in)

I remember him giving an F to one record because it was missing from the sleeve.

LOL

Sorry, this is 100% classic.

The only one I can think of along those lines is this Kim Fowley review:

I'm Bad [Capitol, 1972]
I've nothing against hype, but it's a little low to distribute snazzy jackets containing blank discs. Caveat emptor. E-

i opened up a sealed country record from the 70's the other day and it had a herbie mann record in it. i gave it an A+. i love herbie mann!

That Kim Fowley review was it. I guess I misremembered it.

A+? wait..but..herbie mann plays the flute. next thing you're gonna tell me milt jackson is guest soloist.

xp

and it was herbie's reggae album too. some pissed off 70's country fans out there, i'll bet. i actually like herbie's reggae album. it answers the question everyone was asking in the 70's: what would a reggae record made by herbie mann, mick taylor, and albert lee sound like?

the perils of getting sealed stuff. i do it all the time. i may have a larger herbie mann collection than i thought.

Reading Christgau is always like reading a textbook.

― Born In A Test Tube, Raised In A Cage (unperson), Friday, July 2, 2010 3:50 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

Sign o' the Times [Paisley Park, 1987]
No formal breakthrough, and despite the title/lead/debut single, no social relevance move either, which given the message of "The Cross" (guess, just guess) suits me fine. Merely the most gifted pop musician of his generation proving what a motherfucker he is for two discs start to finish. With helpmate turns from Camille, Susannah, Sheila E., Sheena Easton, he's back to his one-man-band tricks, so collective creation fans should be grateful that at least the second-hottest groove here, after the galvanic "U Got the Look," is Revolution live. Elsewhere Prince-the-rhythm section works on his r&b so Prince-the-harmony-group can show off vocal chops that make Stevie Wonder sound like a struggling ventriloquist. Yet the voices put over real emotions--studio solitude hasn't reactivated his solipsism. The objects of his desire are also objects of interest, affection, and respect. Some of them he may not even fuck. A+

See, this is the crux: The objects of his desire are also objects of interest, affection, and respect. Name me another critic to whom this would matter. Name me a metal album about which you could make the same statement. (Not an indictment of metal, btw, just an example of why he can't hear it.)

Zactly, Which explains his massive self-inflicted blind spot for "cold" music, like prog (or anything close to prog), electronic stuff, metal, etc. More recently he seemed to come around to pop for pop's sake, but why that made him respond so positively to Black Eyed Peas is another question.

Could't tell if he was joking, but didn't he stop paying attention to Fugazi because they stopped sending him promos? Sort of:

The most principled band of the '90s declined to send out promos, a decision I would have respected even if they hadn't been so stalwart in minimizing ticket prices, staging all-ages shows, and otherwise putting punk's D.C-based straight-edge ethos into practice. Since their Dischord label remained solvent as other indies went mainstream or under, I'm sure they understood venture capital better than me. I bought three early-'90s albums: 13 Songs, Repeater, and Steady Diet of Nothing. These were enough to convince me that from the strictures of Minor Threat's razor-sharp hardcore to the confrontational formalism of Fugazi's surgical AOR, Ian MacKaye has always been a musical puritan as well as all the other kinds. Obsessed with corruption, he figured out that words and voices don't excise it as efficiently as a well-honed guitar--specifically Guy Picciotto's precise, rock-solid distorto riffs. On Repeater, Picciotto offered something like pleasure. On the other two the resemblance was more abstract. I'm not any kind of puritan. So I stopped buying their records. [2000]

Maybe Fugazi was too prog, too "abstract?"

it was all downhill after m-soft imposed click-to-read-each-review. surely I'm not the only one who stopped reading xgau's CG at that point.

get a blog, bob. srsly.

See, this is the crux: The objects of his desire are also objects of interest, affection, and respect. Name me another critic to whom this would matter.

I would say this matters to lots of other critics (like me). Though lots of them were probably influenced by Christgau. Also, it should be noted, Christgau also liked lots of other Prince records where the objects of his desire were just people he wanted to fuck.

The Consumer Guide lives, sort of...

http://social.entertainment.msn.com/music/blogs/expert-witness-blog.aspx

skimmed it, but "The blog title Expert Witness is not a joke. It's a boast that in criticism, knowledge counts, and that I have a load and a half." is pretty great

p.s. MSN GET XGAU AN RSS FEED PLZ

I like his new M.O., after assuming the old format put too much strain on his concentration.

stoked for any reissues he may review in future. but i'm old like that me.

MSN GET XGAU AN RSS FEED PLZ

Dude, I've been fighting to get an RSS feed for my MSN metal blog since Day One. I have no idea why it's such a baffling ordeal.

man, i know! i remember i asked you about getting one 4 your blog earlier this year

Japadsfdf
15 hours ago

JC - I was eating my cereal and I nearly choked to death! I screamed out, 'you genius bas****' (don't ask why I chose those words). I will be able to get my beloved critic twice a week - in BLOG FORM?! I always thought that you would suit blog-form - man, if I ran a newspaper, I'm not lying, I would hire you. Please, please, PLEASE can you review Kanye West's 'My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy'? (I know you've probably already been listening to it?) I feel like I want to give it an A for production alone but are the songs really up to standard? A-? :S :p Oh and there's the new Girl Talk album out. And M.I.A. <- lol she finishes my sentences for me 0:-3 I'm wondering - are you still received the same amount of cd's from people or has it lessened? Yes, I am a fruitcake - but I am so glad you're back! :p
3 0

* Report
* Spam

shit is getting crazy busy (ie, can't keep up):

http://social.entertainment.msn.com/music/blogs/expert-witness-blogpost.aspx?post=b00e4226-1c3f-405d-b8a0-3308952279bb#ic-anchor

:'(

"shit" being the comments section, that is.

(noticed that several ilxor's have taken to posting on the regular...)

Why does he give everything an A of some sort?

cos he's an ahole

Found it too time consuming & frustrating to write about records he doesn't really like.

ilm's layout spoils you. That xgau message board is the pits, the way it's set up. Who likes to read upward? They should all come over here.

u select oldest and read that way

wow @ like 400 comments, p boring imo tho

It's awesome that he's responding to comments. He's really taking to it!

I guess you CAN teach an old dean new tricks!

Japadsfdf
Sun 1:39 PM

Xgau - ooooh, you're in trouble..?! ;p *snap! :p

It seemed so weird to me when I noticed they had added comments to Christgau's new location. For the longest time, Christgau was someone who for me wrote from a mountaintop. I'm not saying that he was condescending or anything remotely like that, and if you knew him, or wrote for him, I realize you wouldn't feel that way at all. But if you were just a reader, like me, he was a huge name who did his work at a certain remove. I also noticed that he's really taken to the back and forth, and I think that's great. Just like Bill James's site, which I've mentioned a number of times (enough to be made fun of for it!) over on I Love Baseball. James has responded to four or five of my "Ask Bill" e-mails, and if I write him about something tomorrow, there's a good chance he'd respond; 10 years ago, I wouldn't have thought that possible. I wish Kael were still writing, and that she had a similar kind of internet forum of her own. "Ask Pauline"--that'd be amazing.

He explained his Grizzly Bear snark to me!

Can you post the response, Freud?

xgau:

The snark-parsing seems to be going fairly well, and I don't want to make a practice of explicating my texts. But briefly it's this. Extra Lens write conventionally structured songs that I choose to call artsongs. Conventionally structured songs are not considered art by those whose beau ideal is Grizzly Bear (who I really don't like and would never think of calling treacle). And now I'll stop.

(treacle was my word, in an earlier post...)

Context is the Extra Lens review on his site now.

Its so weird to read the comments on his Expert Witness column, seeing as how its become a sort of sandbox for Christgau fans to create their own little mini-board. 75%, or more, of the comments have nothing to do with what Christgau was reviewing, just random "here's what I'm listening to" posts and completely off-topic lists of favorites.

Fucker gave Endless Wire a C+. Fuck him.

so did it really deserve a C-, a D, or an F?

zing!

Actually, I wasn't surprised. Christgau was never much of a Who fan.

ned looks like georgia christgau

Having seen them both in the same room, I'd say nyet.

His best-of 2011 list and essay are on Barnes & Noble's site

http://bnreview.barnesandnoble.com/t5/Rock-Roll/Dad-Rock-Makes-a-Stand/ba-p/6659

http://bnreview.barnesandnoble.com/t5/Rock-Roll/The-Dean-s-List-Christgau-s-Best-of-2011/ba-p/6657

Here's a portion of his top 107:

Labels: rock & roll & January 13, 2012The Dean's List: Christgau's Best of 2011
By Robert Christgau

1. Das Racist: Relax (Greedhead)
2. Wussy: Funeral Dress II (Shake It)
3. Paul Simon: So Beautiful or So What (Hear Music)
4. Frank Ocean: Nostalgia, Ultra (free download)
5. tUnE-yArDs: w h o k i l l (4AD)
6. Kate & Anna McGarrigle: Tell My Sister (Nonesuch)
7. Blaqstarr: The Divine EP (N.E.E.T.)
8. Wussy: Strawberry (Shake It)
9. Teddybears: Devil's Music (Big Beat)
10. Pistol Annies: Hell on Heels (Columbia)
11. Jens Lekman: An Argument with Myself (Secretly Canadian)
12. The Plastic People of the Universe: Magical Nights (Munster '10)
13. Carolina Chocolate Drops/Luminescent Orchestrii: Carolina Chocolate Drops/Luminescent Orchestrii (Nonesuch)
14. Withered Hand: Good News (Absolutely Kosher)
15. Rave On Buddy Holly (Fantasy)
16. Mekons: Ancient & Modern: 1911-2011 (Sin)
17. Jay Z Kanye West: Watch the Throne (Roc-A-Fella)
18. Pietra Montecorvino: Napoli Mediterranea (Taranta Power/Rai Trade)
19. Oneohtrix Point Never: Replica (Software)
20. Gil Scott-Heron and Jamie xx: We're New Here (XL)

Good read, but man what is up with his strawmanning re: Adele fans?

21 is both blander and louder than Adele’s 2008 19, but I can feel a down-to-earth plus-size who touches women who look a lot more like her than like Beyoncé or Katy Perry.

used a lot of straw, too

guilty lols

Glad to see he also hates Bon Iver. I've tried, but that record just doesn't make any sense to me.

But there's a culture there in which, for instance, a major-label boutique outlet's perfectly executed Kate & Anna McGarrigle reissue doesn't even warrant a review.

weird litmus test

Not sure it's that weird to wonder why a critic's fave canon folk reissue does not merit attention

Skott s was discussing elsewhere how under age 40 folks had begun buying some McGarrigle albums in his store when previously it was only over 40 folks. With various younger members of that family putting out records and folky sounding indie stuff getting attention, it seems like it might be time for renewed interest in Kate & Anna.

yeah but it would take a LOT more than just general renewed young person interest for Pitchfork to start caring

or really to review any reissue that isn't a 'hot rediscovery' or big obvious canon thing they can go "yeah it's a 10.0, but you knew that" about

that kate & anna mcgarrigle album is really magic honestly, i bought it on vinyl i found for cheap, probably cuz of the reissue

i love kate and anna but their rootsy, straightforward style is not something i would ever expect to see covered in pitchfork. not "weird" enough.

new billboard column:

http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop-shop/6157601/pop-art-robert-christgau-jason-derulo-talk-dirty

lol he's been a desrouleaux fan for a while hasn't he

Depressing that I had to remember all over again why I loathe the last couple Derulo tracks

I probably won't keep up very well, but I'm all for anything that leaves the ILM put-him-out-to-pasture-already brigade scratching its head.

eh, joe levy's pretty consistently thrown a bone to xgau whenever he gets an opportunity, not really a headscratcher

it was weird going through a long xgau essay, wondering when he'd get to the jason derulo content promised by top photo

"yes, yes, bob, you've been around the block but can still do the hootchie-koo, good, good, i was told there'd be deRUUUUUUUUUUlo"

12 paragraphs of "i bet you're wondering what grandpa's doing at the club, well let me tell you" before we get 2 about how there's a pop song on the radio he likes and he still listens to political rock

here he is talking about how iggy azalea is super authentic/ good and why it's "silly" to criticize her affected vocals, etc. http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop-shop/6251555/robert-christgau-iggy-azaleas-new-classic-is-plenty-authentic-and

Old white dude glosses over race, news at 11.

I'll wait for someone else to parse that. Sounds like he's saying he likes it because ... He likes it?

Not his best work. Let's move on.

I'm always defending Marcus and Christgau, and I really don't want to start sounding like an apologist (it's as much of an age thing as anything--old white guys look out for each other, I guess), but I'd be hard-pressed to think of a white rock critic who's written as much or as knowledgeably about black pop music over the years as Christgau. Often when hardly anybody else was.

That was my first thought, actually.

What I hear is awkward and determined and endearing -- less so on video, where you can sometimes catch her forcing it, but always the striving self-creator pursuing her "art," as this boho baby rightly calls it when she paints her nipples red for a tantalizing glimpse in the "Change Your Life" video.

*arched eyebrow*

between him and lefsetz it's horn dog central around here

Azalea's persona suggests a person worth getting to know for more than three-and-a-half minutes at a time.

there's a line between "i can't shit on her for this because i love mick jagger" and "no one should shit on her for this because i love mick jagger" than xgau's kind of straddling here

Hip Hop You Haven't Heard [Northern State, 2002]
Three white-girl voices from the farthest reaches of Nassau County: Hesta Prynn angular and willfully ill-bred, Guinea Love zaftig and a touch guttural, the misleadingly handled DJ Sprout well-rounded and sometimes pretty. Their aesthetic is old-school; they quote Roxanne Shanté and cop an all-time beat from Hitman Howie Tee. But their live bass is as hooky as any sample on two of the four tracks on this EP they think is a demo. There's none of that self-abnegating underground minimalism about them, and plenty of regular school, always a reassuring complete disclosure in artists who've been to college: "Keep choice legal, your wardrobe regal/Chekhov wrote The Seagull and Snoopy is a beagle." Twice they boast about their "optimism," and I love them for putting it so literally. Optimism is always the secret, after all. Not only do they believe in their own talent, they're blessed enough to enjoy it. Life isn't eternal. But as long as it renews itself we can pretend. A

"Keep choice legal, your wardrobe regal/Chekhov wrote The Seagull and Snoopy is a beagle."

what the hell

LFO worthy.

there is a lot of selective piety in who people do or do not hand-wring about "authenticity" from (where's that thinkpiece about John Fogerty) and he's right that sex has something to do with it (oh hey northern state haters). but Old white dude glosses over race, news at 11 is otm even if he's forward thinking for his generation.

Christgau only had room for nine short sentences, but luckily that didn't stop him from describing each woman's body type within his review.

Hesta Prynn angular and willfully ill-bred, Guinea Love zaftig and a touch guttural, the misleadingly handled DJ Sprout well-rounded and sometimes pretty.

lol Christgau would totally be a PUA guy if he were in his 20s today

some evidence he's more direct than that

MCMXC a.D. [Charisma, 1991]
On the hit, mellow electrobeat and Gregorian fog provide mutual relief, and the rest of this disco for Camille P. is filler. Some Amurricans think a whispered "Je te desire" is por . . . er, erotic--sexy! I've always preferred "I wanna fuck you" myself. C-

(ps i hate myself for remembering that)

dude is kind of shithead

great, now I have that Miss Max song stuck in my head

there's a line between "i can't shit on her for this because i love mick jagger" and "no one should shit on her for this because i love mick jagger" than xgau's kind of straddling here

― da croupier, Tuesday, September 16, 2014 5:16 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Also implies Jagger shouldn't be shit on. He should.

"African Americans may feel that they've had it harder than her by definition and for the most part I agree. That doesn't mean she had it easy."

-________________________________________-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGGtZb3nMLo

The Funky Record [Arb, 1988]
College wise-asses is all they are, biting the Beasties as if they'd made the shit up, stealing hooks from operas and disco records I never even heard of (or heard, anyway). Their gimmick is that they're not stupid (or stoopid, whatever)--mention Icarus, dis guys who don't know their mikes from their dicks ("should be castrated," very funny). Also dis Reagan and Koch, for that "political" touch. Pure opportunism. Must admit I get off on their skinny little beats, though. Beats count for a lot with this shit. A-

1988 in hip hop and that gets an A- jesus fuck

that wouldn't be a bad blurb if it weren't about Maroon.

Are we getting angry about 25+ old record reviews? I guess the Dean is doing something right.

I for one will be forever grateful to the man because he has turned me onto more good music than any other human being ever will.

one can both laugh at old xgau interviews, acknowledge his blind spots, and be forever grateful to the man because he has turned me onto more good music than any other human being ever will

xgau reviews, rather

though the interviews are good too

I really liked the last line of his Iggy Azalea review (A-): "And like Elvis Presley told Marion Keisker sixty years ago, she don’t sound like nobody."

Except she's pretty much a direct knockoff of Diamond from Crime Mob.

I don't know who Chris Butler is (or at least I don't think I know), but that Kent State album Christgau writes about looks fascinating.

apparently dude was in tin huey and was the mind behind The Waitresses. An anecdote featuring xgau from 1979 comes up in his wikipedia

link?

Butler joined Tin Huey a month after being canned, the band eventually signing with Warner Bros. in 1979, after Butler wrote a letter to The Village Voice's rock critic Robert Christgau inviting him to come to Ohio and report on the flourishing Akron/Kent music scene.

the story of how he found his "christmas rapping" guitar is kind of heartwarming.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6654616

I have never listened to this but Chris Butler gained some renown for what is said to be the longest song ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10SnNfxjAI8

Thanks for all the info; ordered a copy yesterday. (Actually, they give you mp3s in advance of the actual CD, but I'll wait till I get that to listen.) Love "Christmas Wrapping," don't think I have any Tin Huey.

Tin Huey were avansters with good sense of humor, kind of a Magic Band influence; could easily been unbearable, but pretty good on Contents Dislodged During Shipment]. The Waitresses were (even) more upfront novelty, with the kooky kool; femme vox def helped; you know "I Know What Boys Like," right? Haven't heard the albums, but see Rolling Reissues 2014 (possibly '13).

Waitresses "Quit" - a good one - was big on the San Diego new wave station in 1983 (San Diego couldn't muster a new wave station until 83).

i dig this album. the narration took a minute to wrap my head around; the songs are great.

Cool, I'll check it. Weren't members of Devo at Kent State around the same time as Butler? Think some stuff on a Devo box goes back that far. I know the James Gang was there!

*Around* the same time, anyway.

tin huey is good (listening to the bushflow tapes on spotify)

they are like a new wave band in the same way the numbers band is a really warped bar band

saw tin huey once at the bottom line. opening for tv maybe? guy had the biggest sax i'd ever seen. i wonder what that thing is called. he could barely lift it. their emphasis track at the time was called "hump day."

was it a contrabass sax?

guess this comes out next month?
http://www.harpercollins.com/9780062238795/going-into-the-city#
One of our great essayists and journalists—the Dean of American Rock Critics, Robert Christgau—takes us on a heady tour through his life and times in this vividly atmospheric and visceral memoir that is both a love letter to a New York long past and a tribute to the transformative power of art.
Lifelong New Yorker Robert Christgau has been writing about pop culture since he was twelve and getting paid for it since he was twenty-two, covering rock for Esquire in its heyday and personifying the music beat at the Village Voice for over three decades. Christgau listened to Alan Freed howl about rock ‘n’ roll before Elvis, settled east of Manhattan’s Avenue B forty years before it was cool, witnessed Monterey and Woodstock and Chicago ’68, and the first abortion speak-out. He’s caught Coltrane in the East Village, Muddy Waters in Chicago, Otis Redding at the Apollo, the Dead in the Haight, Janis Joplin at the Fillmore, the Rolling Stones at the Garden, the Clash in Leeds, Grandmaster Flash in Times Square, and every punk band you can think of at CBGB.
Christgau chronicled many of the key cultural shifts of the last half century and revolutionized the cultural status of the music critic in the process. Going Into the City is a look back at the upbringing that grounded him, the history that transformed him, and the music, books, and films that showed him the way. Like Alfred Kazin’s A Walker in the City, E. B. White’s Here Is New York, Joseph Mitchell’s Up in the Old Hotel, and Patti Smith’s Just Kids, it is a loving portrait of a lost New York. It’s an homage to the city of Christgau’s youth from Queens to the Lower East Side—a city that exists mostly in memory today. And it’s a love story about the Greenwich Village girl who roamed this realm of possibility with him.

The most pressing question is will he come clean on toe fucking?

was it a contrabass sax?

i'm guessing yeah. the instrumentation on discogs lists a bass sax. maybe he didn't even lift it at all; was it mounted so that you could play it from its stand? can't remember.

what a fuckin creep (linked from jessica hopper twitter)

tUnE-yArDs: Nikki Nack
(4AD)

Where Merrill Garbus’s contemporaries pro and con hear a boldly experimental self-expresser/cultural appropriator, I’ve always slotted her as a hyperconscious, hyperemotional misfit with a long-gone weight problem and a generous voice. From the start she’s extracted her exhilaration from an insecurity that sounded hard for her to bear. I’ve encountered many such people in my life, most of them not too deeply—they’re hard to take. But because they’re so hyper they make excellent early warning systems and political consciences. Some may wonder why two different songs fret about the water supply. I believe it’s because she lives in California, end of story. Some may wonder why she devotes an entire track to four lines about a rocking chair. I imagine it’s because she became self-conscious about breaking it and composed the song in the ensuing insomnia. Somewhat more overwrought than its predecessors, this album is harder to take as a result. But it’s also hookier and more clearly recorded. And as a musical sensor she has few peers. A MINUS

Ugh, skin crawling. Also, that's an A- score. Imagine how he'd have written if he liked it less.

i mean

Some may wonder why she devotes an entire track to four lines about a rocking chair. I imagine it’s because she became self-conscious about breaking it and composed the song in the ensuing insomnia

what a fucking dick

there's such a gross irony in how he's so unapologetic and harsh in expressing what's clearly a subjective-to-superficial reaction, while still working the faux-objective scale he's hooked his rep on. though he could be considerably more sensitive in how he shares it - it's not wrong to share your appreciation and summation of an artist's archetype. how performer's present themselves, consciously and unconsciously, is often a selling point with audiences. but if you're even going to inch towards "i'm not into loud chicks with weight issues" you might want to give up the vanity of tossing a fucking grade in at the end.

okay, yeah, firmly entrenched in the "fuck this guy" camp.

though he could be considerably more sensitive in how he shares it - it's not wrong to share your appreciation and summation of an artist's archetype. how performer's present themselves

How she presents herself or how he projects sexist bullshit on to her? Also lol at "inching" as if it's in doubt

Never forget this gem:

Little Earthquakes [Atlantic, 1991]
She's been raped, and she wrote a great song about it: the quietly insane "Me and a Gun." It's easily the most gripping piece of music here, and it's a cappella. This means she's not Kate Bush. And though I'm sure she's her own person and all, Kate Bush she'd settle for. C+

he can be quite clever and insightful, and i'm sure he can be a nice guy in person, but yeah he indulges his license to be a smug asshole in his writing far too often for my tastes

ultimately i think his brand of criticism, even when i enjoy it, is pretty worthless

That Tori Amos thing, I mean, how is that even a review of anything?

him not really reviewing the album is supposed to be the "tell" -- that it's not any good, in other words.

in other words, it's a tacit dismissal

don't get it twisted, UMS. i'm not saying he's inching towards anything, i'm saying the line at which a critic should give up the faux-objective scale is one he's well past. though honestly i wish everyone would give up ratings.

in case it wasn't clear (esp if you cut off the sentence you're reacting to at the halfway point), i'm just saying critics acknowledging what exactly they're reacting to - including sex appeal and personal biases - isn't a bad thing. they just also have a responsibility to be respectful to their subject and audience.

i don't think he has any such responsibility, but it's fair for us to judge him for being a dick

Who bestowed him with the title of "Dean" anyway? Forgive my ignorance, because I've never paid much mind to the idolization of rock crit, but even among the big names he seems like he slid in while the door was left open.

i don't think he has any such responsibility, but it's fair for us to judge him for being a dick

well i think people have a responsibility to try not to be dicks

esp if they're going to flatter themselves with faux-academic stature

well, he's been doing it since... 1969 i think. and for a magazine that was once hipper than hip.

i always figured the "dean" thing (which i think was semi-ironically self-bestowed) referred in part to his quasi-academic (or at least high-falutin) qualities compared to e.g. dave marsh

xxpost

who is the provost of rock critics?

Brent DiCrescenzo

Greil Marcus rejected the job offer.

even among the big names he seems like he slid in while the door was left open.

Way too harsh. That review won't make you feel any warmer towards him though.

The Best of Phoebe Snow [Columbia, 1981]
Most New Yorkers know a woman like this: from a liberal background, with loads of artistic interests, she's insecure about her weight and hence her looks (which are OK at least) and hence her talent (which there's no questioning), and after plenty of therapy her emotions are still all over the place. Only none of her sisters can sing the postblues like Snow--neurotically, that's what she's about, but with incisive power. She's erratic, so given to bad poetry and intermittently eager to please that her albums are off-putting unless you have a weakness for the type. But this compilation--four originals, six covers, including "Shakey Ground," which she owns because it's her all over--is smart, quirky, deeply felt. It proves the type deserves more credit than it usually gets. A-

Christ, it's pathological!

Lost in Space [SuperEgo, 2002]
I've never understood this ice queen thing myself. What's the big thrill--getting to see them bite their lip when they come? All I know is this poster girl for the DIY fallacy is still the ultimate NPR middlebrow, addressing disillusioned love songs to the biz the way Christians address illusioned ones to the Lord Jesus. For her fans, the news is that she's invested her profits in studio musicians. Takes talent to make that more boring than solo acoustic, no? C+

i mean

Some may wonder why she devotes an entire track to four lines about a rocking chair. I imagine it’s because she became self-conscious about breaking it and composed the song in the ensuing insomnia

what a fucking dick

I think this is his inelegant way of saying that this is what the song is actually about. Which seems plausible -- she's written about body image stuff before -- though I'm not sure that 'weight' needs to be taken literally. The way he phrases it here, it comes off like a cruel quip that he thought up himself.

this is approaching "rearview mirror dingle-dangle of a woman" territory

The fact that Jones studied piano in college yet never took a singing lesson is the material basis for the belief that she imbues breathy innocence with old wisdom; she seems incorrigibly incorruptible, yet no fool. And then there's the sensual dimension, by which I do not mean sexual, although others might. Say her voice is all curves and no corners. Say there's a deep openness there. Say it makes you want to like her. Or on the other hand, get meaner with a joke no one known to Google dislikes her enough to have made: I know why she didn't come--it's the Paxil. Antidepressants help many good and vivid people be themselves. But for her own sake, I hope Norah Jones achieves her seductive serenity sans pharmacology.

he sure knows lots of intimate personal details about these musicians

I've never understood this ice queen thing myself. What's the big thrill--getting to see them bite their lip when they come?

this is really vile

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/read-an-excerpt-from-robert-christgaus-memoir-going-into-the-city-20150216?page=4

lol every six months or so it seems like one of the billion threads about this guy gets bumped with a quote suggesting he's an unreformed asshole and you guys act all surprised.

I am a huge Christgau fan, he has introduced me to more great music than anyone ever has or will. But that tune yards review was just the meanest and stupidest thing ever.

so i can understand if you missed what he said about this one previously, but are none of you familiar with his hosannas for the first two records, then? one of which name-checks phoebe snow? or are you suggesting that this one should be read in an ignorant vacuum? or not more than once, because his capsules never require that to be thought through sufficiently?

This one's ok, because it's written by a(n I'm guessing millennial) girl and is all No-Klosterman, right?

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/tune-yards-quirk

v excited to revisit all of the writing about this 8 month old tune-yards record

guessing the noisey hottake is not shitty about garbus' body so yeah, it's totally okay

does xgau write shitty things about women in a vacuum or a continuum

she's insecure about her weight and hence her looks (which are OK at least)

Early PUA innovator

Maybe he's just negging women he fancies, hoping that Aimee Mann will think "I'll show HIM who's an ice queen"

The style seems a holdover from the gonzo shocker style of writing that birthed some of his contemporaries, but like Marcus Xgau is too smart to convincingly pass for crass or offensive, which to me scans as hyper cynical at its most innocuous and, yes, offensive at its least. Think: dismissing Hendrix as an Uncle Tom, or calling Chuck D. a talented asshole (?), or his dropping profanity into dense hi-brow prose, etc.. I think that asshole arrogance and smug swagger is part of his identity, if not personality, and he really plays it up, often at the expense of the music he is ostensibly writing about. Like, that Tori Amos review above, I get what he's getting at, but there are other, probably better ways to get there.

http://robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?name=The+Donnas

D:

You know, back in the day there were other reasons to read the Village Voice's music section.

man these are all hideous. i had no idea

I find stuff like that "penis people" thing really annoying. I don't assume stuff about a columnist's readership - male or female. I don't see how correcting or paying attention to white guy readers is helpful to women. I don't read criticism to be made aware of the readers of it. ICK.

ladies and gentlemen the dean of american rock criticism:

The Donnas Turn 21 [Lookout, 2001]
skank hos get fucked ("Midnite Snack," "Police Blitz") *