Who are the Ten Best Punk Rock bands of all-time?

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Has this been done before?

― yoko0no, Thursday, 29 March 2007 18:38 (eighteen years ago)

http://loc.deadcityradio.org/loc/lemming.jpg

― Noodle Vague, Thursday, 29 March 2007 18:44 (eighteen years ago)

I don't know. The Lemmings were awful good. But in the top ten punk bands ever? That seems like a bit of an overstatement.

...though following each other off a cliff was totally hardcore.

― Mordechai Shinefield, Thursday, 29 March 2007 18:53 (eighteen years ago)

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r292/adamrsbeales/flipper.jpg

― Pye Poudre, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:04 (eighteen years ago)

y'know i can't see the phrase "all-time" in a thread title without thinkin of wagemama now

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:06 (eighteen years ago)

Ummm, are you looking for unusual choices? My list is going to be predictable because, really, if we're talking punk I'm mostly thinking old school 76-79 (with a couple of exceptions). Most of these bands changed into, duh, post-punk bands but their earliest work is punk:

Sex Pistols - yes, I still love their album
The Damned
Buzzcocks
Adverts
Wire
The Jam
Stiff Little Fingers
The Saints
Newtown Neurotics (great 80s punk!)
China Drum (great 90s punk!)

Steve Gardner really nailed this in this list:
http://www.nkvdrecords.com/top100lp.htm

― Mr. Odd, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:14 (eighteen years ago)

Black Flag
Clash
Germs
Misfits
NY Dolls
Ramones
Sex Pistols
Stooges
Suicide
Wipers

― sexyDancer, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:23 (eighteen years ago)

MisfitsX10

― QuantumNoise, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:23 (eighteen years ago)

wait, no, Bad Brains

― sexyDancer, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:24 (eighteen years ago)

fall out boy x 10

― cankles, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:25 (eighteen years ago)

Hongroe x 10

― DJ Mencap, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:34 (eighteen years ago)

Can't resist a list...
In no order:

The Clash
The Sex Pistols
Rocket From The Tombs
Wire
Ramones
X
Gang Of Four
Minutemen
X-Ray Spex
Buzzcocks

― kornrulez6969, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:35 (eighteen years ago)

I forgot The Seeds and The Monks

― sexyDancer, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:37 (eighteen years ago)

#1 - Fleetwood Mac

― milo z, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:38 (eighteen years ago)

hey guys is there a big fall out boy thread i cant find one and i would like to discuss their musix~~

― cankles, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:39 (eighteen years ago)

See, I thought we were posting cuet that look like punk rock band. My bad.

― Pye Poudre, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:47 (eighteen years ago)

Black Flag, but only with Rollins
Bad Brains, but only with Israel Joseph I
Misfits, but only with Michale Graves
Dead Kennedys, but only with Brandon Cruz

― unperson, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.misfitscentral.com/biospix/dez-cadena.jpgDez Cadenam, but only in the Misfits?

― sexyDancer, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:53 (eighteen years ago)

Cadena, yo

― sexyDancer, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:53 (eighteen years ago)

television
gang of four
velvet underground
suicide
the slits
green day
avril lavigne
neu!
sum 41
sr-71

― Stevie D, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:55 (eighteen years ago)

offspring
offspring
offspring
offspring
offspring
offspring
offspring
offspring
offspring
offspring

― ghost rider, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:55 (eighteen years ago)

8080
8080
8080
8080
8080
8080
8080
8080
css
blood diamonds

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 29 March 2007 19:56 (eighteen years ago)

Buzzcocks
Ramones
New Bomb Turks
Wire
Radio Birdman
Thrown Ups
Weirdos
Dwarves
Sex Pistols
Rocket from the... Crypt

― MC, Thursday, 29 March 2007 21:32 (eighteen years ago)

Oh and the fucking

COWS

motherfuckers

― MC, Thursday, 29 March 2007 21:33 (eighteen years ago)

Here, smell this:
ramones
clash
circle jerks
dead kennedys
new york dolls
stooges
minutemen
sex pistols
saints
minor threat

― yoko0no, Thursday, 29 March 2007 23:18 (eighteen years ago)

dead kennedys
misfits
the germs
the stooges
black flag
bad brains
flipper
ramones
big black
hot snakes

― circa1916, Friday, 30 March 2007 01:33 (eighteen years ago)

The best punk band is the latest best punk band!

Jay Reatard
A Frames
Dwarves
Minutemen
Flipper
Bad Brains
Wire
Clash
Dead Boys
Stooges

Gawd, the late 90s were a dry spell. Maybe Rancid belongs in there. I'll have to give them an objective listen.

― bendy, Friday, 30 March 2007 11:46 (eighteen years ago)

If I put up such a list, you could probably dispute the punkishness of them all, and their best material would mostly be their least punk-sounding.

― Geir Hongro, Friday, 30 March 2007 11:47 (eighteen years ago)

Desperate Bicycles
Subway Sect
X-Ray Spex
The Drones
Buzzcocks (Devoto-era)
Siouxsie and The Banshees (Mackay/Morris-era)
The Adverts
Nicky and The Dots
Some Chicken
Raincoats

― Dr.C, Friday, 30 March 2007 11:49 (eighteen years ago)

Geir: Go for it!

― Mark G, Friday, 30 March 2007 11:50 (eighteen years ago)

Well. Choosing not to distinguish between late 70s new wave or punk:

Elvis Costello
The Jam
The Clash
Nick Lowe
Boomtown Rats
Magazine
Wire
The Police
Graham Parker & The Rumour
The Stranglers
Television
Green Day
The Buzzcocks
Generation X
The Ramones
Talking Heads
Joe Jackson
New York Dolls
Siouxie & The Banshees
Damned

― Geir Hongro, Friday, 30 March 2007 11:57 (eighteen years ago)

Well, I'll give you about half of those as "yep"

Nick Lowe's 'least punk' = country music. Obviously you don't mean those.

The rest count as "OK"

Except Graham Parker, in retrospect.

― Mark G, Friday, 30 March 2007 12:54 (eighteen years ago)

the kids
the dicks
the cramps
the eyes
wipers
germs
the real kids
the godz
sonics
ramones

― ian, Friday, 30 March 2007 15:18 (eighteen years ago)

fuck, i forgot the pagans. replace real kids with pagans.

― ian, Friday, 30 March 2007 15:18 (eighteen years ago)

yo ian i've never heard the kids - what're they like?

― pretzel walrus, Friday, 30 March 2007 15:31 (eighteen years ago)

The Kids are more like pub rock than punk really, but they're good at it.

― Colonel Poo, Friday, 30 March 2007 15:38 (eighteen years ago)

X
ramones
the clash
sex pistols
buzzcocks
sleater-kinney
husker du

i don't consider Television to be "punk" even though they came out of the cbgb scene; same with Patti Smith. Go4 were postpunk, like Sonic Youth
NY Dolls preinvented punk; they have as much in common with old Rolling Stones, imo
the Sonics, Stooges, Seeds, Monks, etc. were prototypes but i just don't think they fit neatly into the label "punk"

― outdoor_miner, Friday, 30 March 2007 15:39 (eighteen years ago)

the kids are totally a fucking punk band! how can a band with song titles like "fascist cops" NOT be a punk band? belgium 77?7? great catchy punk. my favorite jam is probably "i wanna get a job in the city."

― ian, Friday, 30 March 2007 15:41 (eighteen years ago)

My list: (not in order)

Crime
Dead Kennedys
Blitz
Lewd
Damned
Saints
Avengers
UK Subs
Thee Headcoats
Wipers

― Colonel Poo, Friday, 30 March 2007 15:46 (eighteen years ago)

I wanna get a job in the city is great but it sounds like Eddie & the Hot Rods!

― Colonel Poo, Friday, 30 March 2007 15:47 (eighteen years ago)

i forgot to add the Butthole Surfers to my list...

― yoko0no, Friday, 30 March 2007 17:46 (eighteen years ago)

germs
black flag
flipper
minutemen
gun club
red cross
saccharine trust
thinking fellers
ramones
saints

― dan, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:23 (eighteen years ago)

ghost rider 8080 + blink-182

― max, Friday, 30 March 2007 18:29 (eighteen years ago)

Gawd, the late 90s were a dry spell. Maybe Rancid belongs in there. I'll have to give them an objective listen.

Thats probablly because punk had become largely irrelevent by 1984...

― yoko0no, Saturday, 31 March 2007 15:06 (eighteen years ago)

Irrelevant to you, maybe.

― Soukesian, Saturday, 31 March 2007 17:10 (eighteen years ago)

seconded.

my picks:

Angry Samoans
Dwarves
Minor Threat
Bad Brains
Germs
Weirdos
Screamers
Big Boys
Black Flag
Crass

― sleeve, Saturday, 31 March 2007 17:54 (eighteen years ago)

Irrelevant to you, maybe.

Really? I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on how punk was relevent after 1984. It seems to me that the medium had been more than played out by that time and that rap had taken over the role that punk had formerly had. The Beastie Boys switch from punk to rap/hip hop is an obvious example of this, dont you think?

― yoko0no, Saturday, 31 March 2007 18:12 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, when the Beastie Boys lost interest, that was IT, right?

― Soukesian, Saturday, 31 March 2007 18:35 (eighteen years ago)

The Beastie Boys realized that punk was no longer the vehicle in which to express themselves to the youth, and that in fact rap/hip hop would be much a more effective vehicle overall. After thier embrace of rap/hip hop they still whipped out the 2 minute punk rock song from time to time, but it was rare.

― yoko0no, Saturday, 31 March 2007 23:50 (eighteen years ago)

the beastie boys were hardly a good punk band, so when they switched to a medium they were much better at - it hardly has any reflection on the rest of rather large genre that had yet to spew out many of its greatest acts

― UncleTomfly, Sunday, 1 April 2007 00:13 (eighteen years ago)

Here's my top 20

The Clash
Bad Brains (only with HR)
The Damned
Antiseen
New Bomb Turks
Dead Kennedys (only with jello)
Radio Birdman
The Stooges (the first edition, not the crap record they just delivered)
The Ramones
Black Flag
Flipper
The Dictators
The Cows
Killdozer
The Jesus Lizard
Fugazi
The Dicks
Butthole Surfers
Sex Pistols
The Dead Boys

― UncleTomfly, Sunday, 1 April 2007 00:22 (eighteen years ago)

whoops , forgot poison idea. "feel the darkness' = best hardcore record ever made.

― UncleTomfly, Sunday, 1 April 2007 00:24 (eighteen years ago)

the beastie boys were hardly a good punk band, so when they switched to a medium they were much better at - it hardly has any reflection on the rest of rather large genre that had yet to spew out many of its greatest acts

Actually the Beastie Boys had a couple of great punk rock songs and if you listen to the gutiar riffs of many of their latter tunes like 'Sabatage' and 'What you want' and others then you should be able to see that they had a talent for aggressive guitar rock. Then add that to their confrontational vocal approach and irreverent lyrics and it really isnt that hard to imagine that they could have been very successful at punk rock.

― yoko0no, Sunday, 1 April 2007 00:41 (eighteen years ago)

"egg raid on mojo" is cute, but hardly great. they couldn't play and didnt have much to say until they started rapping.

If it's agression you want - try Poison Idea's "Plastic Bomb" or Bad Brains' "At The Movies" -- those are great punk songs.

― UncleTomfly, Sunday, 1 April 2007 03:31 (eighteen years ago)

blink 182 green day offspring sum 41 dead kennedys

― theoreo, Sunday, 1 April 2007 03:54 (eighteen years ago)

Uncle Tomfly, I disagree. The Beastie Boys had plenty to say, but by 1984ish punk was not the vehicle to say it in. Every statement punk had to make and everything punk had to say had already been said by that point. So the evolutionary step was to restate those things in the rap/hiphop arena...

― yoko0no, Sunday, 1 April 2007 13:57 (eighteen years ago)

MX-80 Sound
Chrome
Bizarros
Debris'
Twinkeyz
Simply Saucer
Pere Ubu
VON LMO
Devo
Metal Urbain

― Myonga Vön Bontee, Sunday, 1 April 2007 14:05 (eighteen years ago)

I'm gonna split the difference in this argument about when punk stopped being relevant, and just say that while it may have sputtered out round about 1984 as far as how much it could change "society" in general or the music biz more specifically, that it continued and continues to be relevant on an individual, personal basis to those who discover it in their youth. I didn't give two shits about punk until I saw the New Bomb Turks live in 1993, but after that point it opened up my ears to all sorts of new sound possibilities--not just punk, but noise, classical, electronic, etc. If that hadn't happened I may have just been liking top 40 to this day. Punk is a gateway drug.

― MC, Sunday, 1 April 2007 15:17 (eighteen years ago)

the idea that fast, simple, energetic music is ever "irrelevant" is just goofy.

― pretzel walrus, Sunday, 1 April 2007 16:40 (eighteen years ago)

No kind of music is "irrelevant". Punk is still popular, and it had the same artistic shortcomings in 1977 that it still does today.

― Geir Hongro, Sunday, 1 April 2007 17:18 (eighteen years ago)

I said it was largely irrelevent, not totally irrelevent (like Dick Cheney I always like to leave myself a little wiggle room) and by that I mean that the true spirit that spawned Punk; the danger of it, the nihlistic desperation of it, etc has been so watered down thrugh 30 years of manipulation by the corporate consumer culture that now days it just comes off as posuery and a bit of a joke. And therefore has very little impact on the culture, on the music industry and I would even argue today's punk rock does not have the same impact on the individual as punk rock of 30 years ago had on the individual.

― yoko0no, Sunday, 1 April 2007 17:37 (eighteen years ago)

please realize that "punk rock" is shorthand for a pretty incredibly varied and diverse set of bands, aesthetics, and motivations, even if we're just talking about 70's stuff, and so to speak of it like it's one easily definable impulse is plain wrong.

― pretzel walrus, Sunday, 1 April 2007 17:46 (eighteen years ago)

even calling it "simple" like i did above isn't all that accurate - some punk bands are/were simple, some aren't/weren't.

― pretzel walrus, Sunday, 1 April 2007 17:52 (eighteen years ago)

It began as one easily defined entity. In the mid 70s there was nothing else like it around. It arrose from the urban underbelly of Industrialized American wastelands in cities like Detroit and Cleveland adn New York and Chicago. It represented a nihilistic ethos that came from the life sentence of economic stagnation that reality had shackled these Iggy Pops and Stiv Bators and Dee Dee Ramones and Richard Hells to.
Then, this energy was changed in the early 80s due to the likes of such "Political Punks" as Jello Biafra and Ian MacKaye and Joe Strummer, etc. And although the act of making Punk Rock more PC made it more acceptbile to the mainstream, it also began to soften its impact. This, along with several other factors, eventually led to Punk Rock being "Largely" irrelevent by 1984.

― yoko0no, Sunday, 1 April 2007 17:58 (eighteen years ago)

LOL

― Colonel Poo, Sunday, 1 April 2007 18:07 (eighteen years ago)

depends on who you are. it wasn't irrelevant to me. i think irrelevant is the wrong word though.

― scott seward, Sunday, 1 April 2007 18:09 (eighteen years ago)

it wasn't as fashionable by 1984 maybe. i don't even know if that's true.

― scott seward, Sunday, 1 April 2007 18:10 (eighteen years ago)

it's always been a niche thing that gets passed on to different geerations like a smelly torch. punk will never be dead, because punk belongs to the punks. or so i've read.

― scott seward, Sunday, 1 April 2007 18:12 (eighteen years ago)

― pretzel walrus, Sunday, 1 April 2007 18:13 (eighteen years ago)

Leftist politics more acceptbile to the Reagan-Thatcher era mainstream? Bollocks!

― Soukesian, Sunday, 1 April 2007 18:15 (eighteen years ago)

As far as mainstream popularity goes, The Clash and Sex Pistols were considerably bigger commercially than Dead Kennedys. I mean, Sex Pistols hit UK #2 with "God Save The Queen". What kind of chart performances did Dead Kennedys have?

― Geir Hongro, Sunday, 1 April 2007 18:44 (eighteen years ago)

(Counting UK charts here, as no punk would succeed in the Billboard chart until Offspring/Green Day anyway)

― Geir Hongro, Sunday, 1 April 2007 18:44 (eighteen years ago)

Leftist politics more acceptbile to the Reagan-Thatcher era mainstream? Bollocks!

Yes, leftist politics was much more mainstream than the "lets shoot up, turn tricks on 53rd and 3rd and then shit on an old persons front door stoop" approach to life of the original punks of the early/mid 70s...

― yoko0no, Monday, 2 April 2007 00:02 (eighteen years ago)

1984 seems arbitrary to me- punk was an entirely underground thing in America after, I dunno, Fear was on Saturday Night Live. More a threat to Quincy than anything in reality. But you (me, friends...) would still get jumped for dressing punk until the late 80s, have tourists snap photos, etc. So it was some sort of threat, even if cartoonish, in America...'til ... Green Day..?

― bendy, Monday, 2 April 2007 00:12 (eighteen years ago)

blink 182 green day offspring sum 41 dead kennedys

Hahah. Hahahahah. Your priorities are all wrong, man. Let me guess. You weren't born until the late 80's. Ah well, no harm. Do your research and get back to this thread.

― Bimble, Monday, 2 April 2007 00:22 (eighteen years ago)

The Clash
The Clash

The fucking Clash 'n London Calling!

But the police? Punk? God have mercy!

― wesley useche, Monday, 2 April 2007 00:48 (eighteen years ago)

1984 seems arbitrary to me- punk was an entirely underground thing in America after, I dunno, Fear was on Saturday Night Live. More a threat to Quincy than anything in reality. But you (me, friends...) would still get jumped for dressing punk until the late 80s, have tourists snap photos, etc. So it was some sort of threat, even if cartoonish, in America...'til ... Green Day..?

I say 1984 for a few reasons. As I said before Punk had pretty much been played out, but also because 1984 was the year that you could hear in the music that most marquee punk bands in America were moving away from punk in their songwriting. Whether they were moving toward speed metal or more melodious rock or which ever way they were headed.

― yoko0no, Monday, 2 April 2007 00:58 (eighteen years ago)

geir's making the most sense out of anyone on this thread. bizarro called and he wants his thread back.

black flag
pistols
misfits
flipper
minutemen
johnny thunders & the heartbreakers
drunks with guns
bad brains
wire
huggybear
team dresch

― Edward III, Monday, 2 April 2007 01:19 (eighteen years ago)

MX-80 Sound
Chrome
Bizarros
Debris'
Twinkeyz
Simply Saucer
Pere Ubu
VON LMO
Devo
Metal Urbain

-- Myonga Vön Bontee,

I don't know Bizarros, Debris', Twinkeyz, or Simply Saucer, but given who they've been sandwiched between, I really want to find out.

― bendy, Monday, 2 April 2007 01:25 (eighteen years ago)

yoko, stop smoking the crack and watching Don Letts movies at the same time.

I like the beasties - but come on - they were and are a party band. There's no message on their good records except how to get wasted on brass monkey and having fun with the ladies. And their last record blew chunks.

In 1985, American Punk was just getting going. Your rolling stone version of punk history is so much pissing in the wind. When I saw Iggy Pop in 1988, he changed my life. Thus "punk" wasn't dead. It was living in his fallen veins, and when he grabbed my hand in the middle of "I wanna be your dog" it passed to me and eventually wound up on my two records on alternative tentacles - one of which parodies that song.

― UncleTomfly, Monday, 2 April 2007 04:04 (eighteen years ago)

"Yes, leftist politics was much more mainstream than the "lets shoot up, turn tricks on 53rd and 3rd and then shit on an old persons front door stoop" approach to life of the original punks of the early/mid 70s..."

This seems like pure Libertarian revisionism. Your PC strawman certainly didn't exist in the 70's, when adopting ultraleftist postures went a long way towards finishing off the Dolls and the MC5. Into the 80's the politically-motivated Frankenchrist prosecution kept the Dead Kennedys tied up until 1987, and our entire local police force would turn out to take on Conflict and their crowd.

― Soukesian, Monday, 2 April 2007 07:24 (eighteen years ago)

Soukesian, you a bit too scholarly.
But first of all, the MC5 was not punk, they were proto-punk. And they served as a forefather to the Political Punks like Crass, Minor Threat, Dead Kennedys, etc.
And the NY DOlls were oen of the least political bands of all-time. And if you are mistakenly identifying their Soviet flag stunts while being handled by Malcolm McLaren as a political statement, then you have no idea what you ae talking about.
Most of the original punks had too many problems of their own to give a shit about political matters. It wasnt until the second wave of punk ('77ish) where you started seeing the more well-off suburban kids jumping on the Punk Rock bandwagon which led to politics (generally left-wing) being brought into punk. And that's because these suburban kids didnt really have the economic problems of the originators. They largely had families or money to fall back on when their little foray into "scary" punk rock was over with.
By 1984 these spoiled suburban kids had taken over punk and its been that way pretty much ever since...

― yoko0no, Monday, 2 April 2007 16:44 (eighteen years ago)

ok this is definitely wagemuffin

― pretzel walrus, Monday, 2 April 2007 16:50 (eighteen years ago)

yep. if it looks like a wagemuffin and smells like a wagemuffin, and uses ellipses like a wagamamma. . .

― Mr. Que, Monday, 2 April 2007 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

Crass, spoiled suburban kids? spare me.

My point about the Dolls is that leftist posturing (and, yes, in their case, it was just that) was absolutely disastrous as a promtional tactic, rather than being the easy win you're suggesting. And no, The MC5 really don't fit in with your argument in any way at all, do they?

Punk rock was and is made by all kinds of people for all kinds of reasons, but ruling out the contribution of left/anarchist/squatter factions is just nonsense.

― Soukesian, Monday, 2 April 2007 17:35 (eighteen years ago)

Where did I suggest it was an easy win? WTF does that even mean?
Anywaym I really dont see any contribution that the left/anarchist/squatter factions of punk rock made. Perhaps you could enlighten me.

See, this is where you enter the no-win situation. Original punks attitude was basically nothing matters--which it doesnt for the most part. Whereas your political punks thought they could change society through punk rock. Which they didnt, because as the original punks already knew "Nothing Really Matters".
So please tell me what matters and how your political punks changed society.

― yoko0no, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 00:01 (eighteen years ago)

Most of the original punks had too many problems of their own to give a shit about political matters

The Clash being an obvious exception here.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 00:43 (eighteen years ago)

I generally think of Britpunk and American punk as two different animals. American punk rose from the depths of despair of the American urban wasteland. There's an authenticity in its intense irreverance and senseless violence. Britpunk on the otherhand was largely founded around the phenomenon of the Sex pistols who were a Malcom McLaren situaionalist fabrication that drew largely upon American punk and proto-punk (specifically the NY DOlls and Richard Hell).
So when I say original punks I'm referring to those authentically original American punks, not the Britpunks that were cartoon versions of the real deal...

― yoko0no, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 01:29 (eighteen years ago)

cartoon versions

― collardio gelatinous, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 01:44 (eighteen years ago)

just give it up yoko, you are outmanned and outgunned.

The clash were "cartoon version" of the dictators or ramones? i love all three bands but puhlease! they all did their own damn thing!

― UncleTomfly, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 05:33 (eighteen years ago)

[i]I don't know Bizarros, Debris', Twinkeyz, or Simply Saucer, but given who they've been sandwiched between, I really want to find out.

-- bendy[/]

Well, there's THIS:
http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=41&threadid=45894

And...

http://www.furious.com/perfect/simplysaucer.html
http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=6015
http://www.cartuneland.com/Pages/twinkeyz.html
http://www.myspace.com/debris1975

I love this stuff and recommend 'em all highly! All except Saucer are OOP and hard to find, especially Bizarros, who were never reissued on CD like the others. But I keep my $l$k browser open practically 24/7, hint hint. Or if that's not an option, I'll happily burn copies.

(Oh, and none of 'em were actual capital-P punk - I was just too indecisive to do a proper list.)

― Myonga Vön Bontee, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 08:03 (eighteen years ago)

The entire American punk movement of the 80s was first and foremost influenced by British punk. Surely there was Ramones, but other than them, the American punks of the 70s were a lot more musically complex than the British ones. I mean, Television even did really lengthy songs.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 09:21 (eighteen years ago)

Television a 'punk' band?? Presumably because Tom Verlaine was gaunt and skinny and wore black jeans instead of a cape with moons and stars on it?

Just goes to show what nonsense these stupid labels are!

American punks of the 70s more complex than Brits... umm, like the Ramones? I love generalisations as much as the next man, but this debate is like nailing jelly to the wall.

― Richard Graham, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 10:25 (eighteen years ago)

OK this has to be PEW. BAN YOKO0NO!

― Colonel Poo, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 10:38 (eighteen years ago)

What is PEW?

― Richard Graham, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 11:18 (eighteen years ago)

I'm pretty sure that this is indeed PEW, though NB no links to "rockism101" yet, or mentions of r-ism generally. Anyway, even though it has indeed been done before x 1,000,000:

The Buzzcocks
The Dead Kennedys
The Ruts
Magazine
Minor Threat
Peter Hammill
Metal Urbain
er.....

― Pashmina, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 11:18 (eighteen years ago)

What is PEW?

-- Richard Graham, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 11:18 (7 seconds ago)

do a search for "rockism 101".

― Pashmina, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 11:19 (eighteen years ago)

I have just consulted the 14 year-old Year Zero Spirit Of 1976 Crypto-Maoist Everything Else Is Shit The Cultural Revolution Starts Here Public School Armchair Punk Rocker that will always lie within. And he says:

The Adverts
Buzzcocks
The Clash
The Damned
Generation X (Peel sessions era)
Ramones
Sex Pistols
Siouxsie & the Banshees (Peel sessions era)
The Slits (Peel sessions era)
Subway Sect
X-Ray Spex

That's 11, but it's also non-negotiable.

― mike t-diva, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 13:33 (eighteen years ago)

Electric Eels
Void (The ep w/ Scream)
Weirdos
X
Negative Approach
Wire
Saints
Subway Sect
Damned
Black Randy and the Metrosquad (More for the attitude than a strict musical definition of punk - whatever that means)

― leavethecapital, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 14:03 (eighteen years ago)

Television is not punk, they are New Wave Rock, along with Blondie, the Cars, Talking Heads, Pere Ubu, Devo, etc.

My generalizaton that BritPunk was a cartoon version of the pure punk that arrose from the bowels of industrialized America is jsut that. A generalization. And there are exceptions to all generalizations (like the Clash) but in GENERAL I stand by that discription.

― yoko0no, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 16:28 (eighteen years ago)

Television is not punk, they are New Wave Rock

thanks for clearing that up revisionist dude

― Edward III, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 17:20 (eighteen years ago)

First of all Telelvsion was referred to as New Wave back in the 70s by those who actually knew what punk was. It was only the uninformed mainstream media that wrongly tagged them as 'punk'. These same uninformed mainstreamers also labled Tom petty as punk in the late 70s too.
Second of all there is nothing wrong with revisionist history, if the revisions are better and more accurate. Hindsight is 20/20 and studying things in the context of what came before, what was happenng at the time AS WELL AS what followed is much more informed and encompassing than simply studying things as they were percieved at the time.

― yoko0no, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 17:34 (eighteen years ago)

seriously this actually is PEW he's been banned multiple times before can the mods just go ahead and do it again?

― pretzel walrus, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 17:48 (eighteen years ago)

FUCK BANNING A PEW

First of all Telelvsion was referred to as New Wave back in the 70s by those who actually knew what punk was.

right... they were called the marketing dept.

Originally, Seymour Stein, the head of Sire Records, needed a term by which he could market his newly signed bands, who had frequently played the club CBGB. Because radio consultants in the U.S. had advised their clients that punk rock was a fad (and because many stations that had embraced disco had been hurt by the backlash), Stein settled on the term "new wave".

....but that's a bunch a bullshit cause they were most certainly AN INDIE BAND. stein just didn't have the vision at the time to realize this.

― Edward III, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 17:49 (eighteen years ago)

How can you call other people "mainstreamers" when you hold up the Beastie Boys as a "Great Punk Band" and obviously haven't heard any "underground" punk made post-1984.

So how is that bridge you live under?

― UncleTomfly, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 18:37 (eighteen years ago)

I never said the Beastie Boys were a great punk band. I said they had some great punk songs. Please dont put words into my mouth.

Also, Please tell me what you consider to be "underground" punk made post 1984.

Wow, Edward III, I didnt know you had access to wikipedia...but why didnt you include this:

[quoteHe [Stein] felt that the music was the musical equivalent of the French New Wave film movement of the 1960s. Like those film makers, his new artists (most notably Talking Heads) were anti-corporate, experimental, and a generation that had grown up as critical consumers of the art they now practiced. Thus, the term "new wave" was initially interchangeable with "punk".

Soon, however, listeners themselves began to differentiate these musicians from "true punks". The music journalist Charles Shaar Murray, in writing about the Boomtown Rats, has indicated that the term New Wave became an industry catch-all for musicians affiliated with the punk movement, but in some way different from it...Music that followed the anarchic garage band ethos of the Sex Pistols was distinguished as "punk", while music that tended toward experimentation, lyrical complexity, or more polished production, was categorised as "New Wave". This came to include musicians who had come to prominence in the British pub rock scene of the mid-1970s, such as Ian Dury, Nick Lowe, Eddie and the Hot Rods and Dr Feelgood; [3] acts associated with the New York club CBGBs, such as Television, Patti Smith, and Blondie; and singer-songwriters who were noted for their barbed lyrical wit, such as Elvis Costello, Tom Robinson and Joe Jackson. Furthermore, many artists who would have originally been classified as punk were also termed New Wave. [/quote]

So as you can see "New Wave Rock" was a term used to differentiate itself from punk rock--since it obviously was not punk rock. All of this just goes to emphasis my point: Telesion was not PUNK ROCK!!!

― yoko0no, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 18:59 (eighteen years ago)

yeah the misspellings are a dead giveaway

― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 19:16 (eighteen years ago)

see i'd have gone with the completely nonsensical "arguments" but a) oh right it's ilm and b) the misspellings are a better giveaway actually

HOWEVER i would like to remind you of the existence of this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/splodey182/PEW.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/splodey182/PEW.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/splodey182/PEW.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/splodey182/PEW.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/splodey182/PEW.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/splodey182/PEW.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/splodey182/PEW.gif

― pretzel walrus, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 19:18 (eighteen years ago)

many artists who would have originally been classified as punk were also termed New Wave.
American Heritage Dictionary
al·so (ôl'sō)
1. In addition; besides.
2. Likewise; too:

― Mike Dixn, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 19:19 (eighteen years ago)

Rocket From The Tombs
Husker Du
Flipper
Germs
Wire
Ramones
X
The Jam
Gang Of Four
Buzzcocks

― stevienixed, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 19:21 (eighteen years ago)

pere ubu
monks
devo
wire
dutch outsiders
shaggs
bad brains
black flag when greg and dez were playing guitar
faith
flipper
minor threat
weirdos
electric eels
misfits
suicide
the stooges
raincoats
red crayola
husker du
mission of burma
ramones
the slits
and a hundred more besides...

― Mike McGooney-gal, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 19:41 (eighteen years ago)

Wow, Edward III, I didnt know you had access to wikipedia...but why didnt you include this:

because I didn't think the point needed reinforcing - new wave was a term invented as a marketing term to rebrand music everybody else was happy to call punk. just because it was picked up by a bunch of journalists who were eating the pap fed to them doesn't lend the term any more validity. arguing whether Television is new wave or punk is kind of meaningless. they were both, and rock and disco and funk too, all things to all people, they cured cancer and ascended to heaven in a cadillac don't you know...

― Edward III, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 20:53 (eighteen years ago)

"term invented as a marketing tool"

― Edward III, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 20:57 (eighteen years ago)

50 Punk Rock Records Worth Owning:

1. The Adverts: The Adverts
2. Agent Orange: Living in Darkness
3. Angry Samoans: Inside My Brain
4. Anti-Cimex: Criminal Trap
5. Anti-Nowhere League: We Are the League
6. At the Drive-In: Relationship of Command
7. The Avengers: Avengers
8. Bad Brains: Bad Brains
9. Bad Religion: Suffer
10. Big Black: Atomizer
11. Big Boys: The Skinny Elvis / The Fat Elvis
12. The Birthday Party: Junk Yard
13. Black Flag: Damaged
14. Black Market Baby: Coulda Shoulda Woulda
15. The Blood Brothers: March On Electric Children
16. Blondie: Blondie
17. Botch: We Are the Romans
18. The Briefs: The Briefs
19. Butthole Surfers: Rembrandt Pussyhorse
20. Buzzcocks: A Different Kind of Tension
21. Carcass: Reek of Putrefaction
22. Charles Bronson: Complete Discocrappy
23. Chrome: Half Machine Lip Moves
24. Circle Jerks: Golden Shower of Hits
25. The Clash: The Clash
26. Conflict: It's Time to See Who's Who
27. The Cramps: Bad Music for Bad People
28. Crass: Penis Envy
29. Crime: San Francisco's [Still] Doomed
30. Cro-Mags: Age of Quarrel
31. Crucifucks: Wisconsin
32. Cryptic Slaughter: Money Talks
33. The Cure: Three Imaginary Boys
34. D.O.A.: Bloodied but Unbowed
35. D.R.I.: Dirty Rotten LP
36. Dag Nasty: Field Day
37. The Damned: Damned Damned Damned
38. The Dead Boys: Night of the Living Dead Boys
39. The Dead C: Harsh 70s Reality
40. Dead Kennedys: Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables
41. Dead Milkmen: Big Lizard In My Backyard
42. Descendents: Milo Goes to College
43. Devo: Hardcore Devo (vols 1 & 2)
44. The Dickies: The Incredible Shrinking Dickies
45. Dicks: Kill From the Heart
46. The Dictators: Go Girl Crazy
47. Didjits: Hey Judester
48. Die Kreuzen: Die Kreuzen
49. Discharge: Hear Nothing, See Nothing, Say Nothing
50. Dr. Gunni: God
51. Dog-Faced Hermans: Those Deep Buds
52. Dropdead: Discography
53. Dwarves: Blood, Guts & Pussy
54. Einsturzende Neubauten: Drawings of Patient O.T.
55. The Electric Eels: The Electric Eels
56. The Ex: Aural Guerilla
57. The Exploding Hearts: Guitar Romantic
58. Eyehategod: Take as Needed for Pain
59. The Fall: Live at the Witch Trials
60. Fang: Landshark
61. Fear: The Record
62. Feederz: Ever Feel Like Killing Your Boss?
63. Flipper: Generic
64. Fudge Tunnel: Hate Songs in E Minor
65. Fugazi: Repeater
66. Gang Green: Another Wasted Night
67. Gang of Four: Entertainment
68. The Germs: GI
69. Government Issue: The Fun Just Never Ends
70. Gray Matter: Food for Thought
71. Green Day: Dookie
72. Green River: Come On Down
73. The Gun Club: Fire of Love
74. Hellacopters: Supershitty to the Max!
75. Husker Du: Zen Arcade
76. J.F.A.: We Know You Suck
77. Joy Division: Unknown Pleasures
78. Killing Joke: Killing Joke
79. Laughing Hyenas: You Can't Pray a Lie
80. The Lazy Cowgirls: Tapping the Source
81. Les Thugs: Dirty White Race
82. The Locust: Plague Soundscapes
83. M.D.C.: Millions of Dead Cops
84. Man Is the Bastard: D.I.Y.C.D.
85. Meatmen: War of the Superbikes
86. The Melvins: Gluey Porch Treatments
87. The Mentors: Up the Dose
88. Minor Threat: Out of Step
89. Minutemen: Double Nickels On the Dime
90. The Misfits: Walk Among Us
91. Mission of Burma: Signals, Calls and Marches
92. Monoshock: Walk to the Fire
93. Motards: Saturday Night Special Ed
94. Motorhead: Ace of Spades
95. Mudhoney: Superfuzz Bigmuff
96. Naked Raygun: Throb Throb
97. Napalm Death: Scum
98. Necros: Tangled Up
99. Negative Approach: Tied Down
100. New Bomb Turks: Destroy-Oh-Boy
101. The New York Dolls: The New York Dolls
102. Nirvana: Bleach
103. No Means No: Wrong
104. No Trend: The Tritonian Nash-Vegas Polyester Complex
105. The Pagans: Shit Street
106. Patti Smith: Horses
107. The Pogues: Rum, Sodomy & the Lash
108. Pointed Sticks: Waiting for the Real Thing
109. Poison Idea: Feel the Darkness
110. Pussy Galore: Right Now
111. Radio Birdman: Radios Appear
112. The Raincoats: The Raincoats
113. The Ramones: The Ramones
114. Raw Power: Screams from the Gutter
115. The Real Kids: The Real Kids
116. Refused: The Shape of Punk to Come
117. The Replacements: Let It Be
118. Rude Kids: Safe Society
119. Rudimentary Penii: Death Church
120. S.O.D.: Speak English or Die
121. The Saints: I'm Stranded
122. Scratch Acid: Just Keep Eating
123. Scream: This Side Up
124. Screamers: Screamers
125. Sex Pistols: Never Mind the Bollocks
126. Sick of It All: Blood, Sweat and No Tears
127. Siouxie and the Banshees: The Scream
128. Sleater Kinney: Dig Me Out
129. The Slits: Cut
130. Social Distortion: Prison Bound
131. Sonic Youth: Confusion Is Sex
132. The Sonics: Here Are the Sonics
133. Stiff Little Fingers: Inflammable Material
134. The Stooges: Raw Power
135. The Stranglers: No More Heroes
136. Subhumans: Incorrect Thoughts
137. Suicidal Tendencies: Suicidal Tendencies
138. Suicide: Suicide
139. Swans: Filth
140. Talking Heads: 77
141. Television: Marquee Moon
142. Teengenerate: Get Action
143. Terveet Kadet: Black God
144. Thee Mighty Caesars: English Punk Rock Explosion
145. Throbbing Gristle: Second Annual Report
146. Toy Dolls: Dig That Groove, Baby
147. Tragedy: Tragedy
148. Turbonegro: Ass Cobra
149. UK Subs: Another Kind of Blues
150. The Undertones: The Undertones
151. The Velvet Underground: White Light/White Heat
152. The Vibrators: Pure Mania
153. Weirdos: Weird World
154. The Wipers: Youth of America
155. Wire: Pink Flag
156. Wolf Eyes: Dread
157. X: Los Angeles
158. X-Ray Spex: Germ-Free Adolescents
159. Zeke: Flat Tracker

― Pye Poudre, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 21:40 (eighteen years ago)

Great list. Fuck of a lot of them are post '84, as are a lot of the bands cited upthread, or their best work.

― Soukesian, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 21:57 (eighteen years ago)

Television is not punk, they are New Wave Rock

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HiSIrgjarhE"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HiSIrgjarhE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

― latebloomer, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 22:08 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiSIrgjarhE

― latebloomer, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 22:09 (eighteen years ago)

"You don't slam dance at Devo concerts. That's 'Punk'. They're 'New Wave'. It's a totally different edge. Totally!"

― latebloomer, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 22:20 (eighteen years ago)

DONT ARGUE WITH NBC AND RABBI KAPLAN

― sexyDancer, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 22:26 (eighteen years ago)

new wave was a term invented as a marketing term to rebrand music everybody else was happy to call punk. just because it was picked up by a bunch of journalists who were eating the pap fed to them doesn't lend the term any more validity.

So who are these mythical individuals worthy of such worship from you who were saying that talking heads, television, pere ubu, etc were "punk"? Aparantly you value their opinions much more than you do rock journalists of the late 70s, so please tell me who these people are--I'd be interested in hearing their arguement...

― yoko0no, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:39 (eighteen years ago)

I'm still waiting for a reply Edward III...don't wuss out on me...not now...that would be very un-punklike...

― yoko0no, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:41 (eighteen years ago)

yoko the troll, I'll take #148 on that last list to prove you are full of shit.

Turbonegro's 1996 LP "Ass cobra" invented a new sub genre, "death punk," that gave the music world a much needed kick in the ass that wasn't fully felt until after the record was reissued in 2003 by epitaph/burning heart. By taking on Gay themes and singing about erections - Turbonegro made rock and roll outrageous again - and did it with style, fantastic musicianship and great songwriting. For saving rock from the emo mush, Turbonegro are more important than 95% of the bands that had the good music fortune to break when punk was shiny and new. and then in 1998, they topped themselves and made the best rock record of the 1990s, Apocalypse Dudes.

― UncleTomfly, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:01 (eighteen years ago)

Uncle Tomfly, do you consider Turbonegro an 'underground' punk band? If so, then can you explain to me how an underground punk band can make "rock and roll outrageous again" and "save rock from emo mush" and be "more important than 95% of the bands that had the good music fortune to break when punk was shiny and new"?

Also, it is not simply good musical fortune to have been a punk band when punk was shiny (???) and new. It took balls to be punk in 1974/1975. And it is simply impossible to show the same kind of courageousness 20 years later after all the ground has already been broken and the foundations already laid.

You say ASS COBRA gave the music world a kick in the ass--what specific examples do you have to back this up? Without examples it is just rhetoric. ANd its been 11 years now, so certainly you must have some specific examples...

― yoko0no, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:30 (eighteen years ago)

So who are these mythical individuals worthy of such worship from you who were saying that talking heads, television, pere ubu, etc were "punk"?

well obviously you've never heard of PAUL EDWARD WAGEMANN whose thoughts are well-documented and highly regarded in this area. PAUL EDWARD WAGEMANN has proved incontrovertibly via the use of differential calculus that not only are talking heads, television, and pere ubu in fact punk, but also that the all-time greatest album recorded in the history of human music is trini lopez's on the move. it is quite clear that PAUL EDWARD WAGEMANN is the accepted authority on this subject and your feeble attempts to argue against his conclusions evidence either a deep naiveté or willful ignorance on your part.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:46 (eighteen years ago)

No, seriously Edward, you said "new wave was a term invented as a marketing term to rebrand music everybody else was happy to call punk." So I think it is a perfectly legitimate question to ask you who this "everybody else" you are referring to is. And why is their catagorization of television, devo, talking heads, blondie, pere ube, etc to be taken as the Gospel (as you seem to be taking it).

I've cited why I think these bands should be catagorized as New Wave Rock instead of Punk, so I'd like to hear your argument as to why you think they should be catagorized as Punk (other than "well everyone else in the mainstream other than Rock journalists thought it was punk")...

― yoko0no, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 02:28 (eighteen years ago)

can you not read? if you won't bother to research the conclusions of foremost expert PAUL EDWARD WAGEMANN before spouting off half-cocked on message boards, then there is no basis for a conversation between us. stop hiding behind this "everybody else" strawman and understand that when PAUL EDWARD WAGEMANN categorically denies the validity of labeling talking heads, television, and pere ubu as new wave, he distills (dare I say, supercedes?) the research and theories of hundreds of rock critics who came before him. I cannot elaborate on that which has realized its perfect and ultimate expression - i.e. PAUL EDWARD WAGEMANN's extensive writings on new wave as a bankrupt and thoroughly meaningless term, especially when related to the music of the punk bands talking heads, television, and pere ubu.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 02:58 (eighteen years ago)

Funny how you slam me for "rhetoric" and then just back it up with a bunch of trite revisionist bullshit. Every musical style built on something else. Certainly every NY band in 1975 built on the stooges and the MC5.

Yoko, If you had left the house in the last 11 years - perhaps you would have noticed turbonegro have created an entire cult of personality, complete with their own "turbojugand" -- a worldwide legion of denim-wearing uberfans.

Turbo came from norway, hardly a hotbed of great rock music and over time transformed themselves from ordinary euro punk band into the great unit they are today. They were even able to benedit from their singer's nervous breakdown and the band's subsequent 4 year break from music, as it let the world catch up to how great "ass cobra" and "apocalypse dudes"
were. When they came back, the music world was ready to be sexually assaulted by them -- and they were. Another point which you would have noticed, if you weren't locked up in your grandma's basement trolling for fights about how the beastie boys conversion from half assed punk band (with "great songs" like egg raid on mojo) to party rappers proves that a genre that had just begun to spread it's wings outside of NY and the UK was dead.

― UncleTomfly, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 07:00 (eighteen years ago)

I have zero interest in arguing with dipshit trolls, but I would like to say that Pye Poudre's list gets my full seal of approval.

― Colonel Poo, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 08:27 (eighteen years ago)

Only mike t-diva's list makes any sense here. Apart from mine :)

Any list without the Subway Sect is rubbish.

― Dr.C, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 08:43 (eighteen years ago)

OK I think we need to let this Paul Edward Wagemann thing go. This is getting sorta freaky.

― Stevie D, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 08:56 (eighteen years ago)

Subway Sect would probably get in my top 50. They just didn't release enough songs to beat any band in my top 10 (which is probably different today anyway).

― Colonel Poo, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:08 (eighteen years ago)

"Ambition" is to dance around the room colliding with furniture song!

― Mark G, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:09 (eighteen years ago)

But they released Nobody's Scared, Ambition, Chain Smoking, Parallel Lines and Don't Split It. What else do you want? Quality beats Quantity! One of the whole flippin' points of punk is that a single grimy 7" is/was enough to blast away the multi-album career of yer mainstream artist.

On this basis Some Chicken, The Drones and Nicky and The Dots made my top ten. The Drones entirely on the basis of Persecution Complex. Nicky and The Dots for their name and Never Been So Stuck.

I feel sorry that I didn't have room in the top 10 for Eater, The Tights and The Slits.

― Dr.C, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:22 (eighteen years ago)

Oh there is some dusty cupboard somewhere where the real tapes of the first (proper) Subway Sect album lives...

― Mark G, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:31 (eighteen years ago)

Some of it came out on 20-odd years comp, but yes it's locked away and only Bernie Rhodes has the key.

Vic has just finished re-recording it however, and I think it'll be out later in the year. (includes Mark Laff on drums and Paul Myers on bass btw)

― Dr.C, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:34 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, I have that comp.

Classic: Bernie's added keyboards on Ambition
Dud: Everything else Bernie (didn't) do for them

― Mark G, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:37 (eighteen years ago)

Yes, I know, but most of the bands in my list all released SEVERAL grimy 7"s that blast away multi-album careers!

Although I did include Crime, who only released 3 singles and the 3rd was rubbish. But I'd put Baby You're So Repulsive, Hotwire My Heart, Frustration and Murder By Guitar over Ambition and Nobody's Scared.

I have the Some Chicken and Nicky & the Dots singles and love them but I'm not going to rank them higher than, say, the Damned!

― Colonel Poo, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:38 (eighteen years ago)

I got a Some Chicken 12" single yesterday, yet to play it.

― Mark G, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:44 (eighteen years ago)

The Damned were great, but kinda rubbish as well. Maybe that's the whole point!

I can't be having American bands in my list. The Ramones would make a top 30 I suppose, as might The Sonics or The Monks. I guess it's all about what punk means to YOU.

I forgot the Mekons (Fast Product era, obv!)

― Dr.C, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:47 (eighteen years ago)

The Prefects would also make a top 20. Bristol Road Leads To Dachau!

― Dr.C, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:51 (eighteen years ago)

Damned Damned Damned is my favourite punk album.

I don't really like the Clash, apart from about ten songs. Even London Calling has loads of filler on it, like Jimmy Jazz... is that Punk?

The Pistols were a good band with loads of energy, while they lasted.

The Stranglers were brilliant but they didn't consider themselves punk. Given the long meandering keyboard solos on Rattus Norvegicus, you can see their point.

Television are more prog than punk as far as I'm concerned, but in a good way.

The older I get the more I agree with the quote off Screamadelica: 'Gospel, and Rhythm and Blues, and Jazz, all those are just labels, music is music'. I don't know who said it originally but he was spot on, and it applies across the board.

Hanif Kureshi's Buddah of Suburbia features an aspiring prog-rock band called Mustn't Grumble, whose middle-class singer transforms himself into a Rotten-esq voice of a generation. I can't help feeling this is truer to life than any amount of actual 'rock history'.

― Richard Graham, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 12:19 (eighteen years ago)

OK I think we need to let this Paul Edward Wagemann thing go. This is getting sorta freaky.

haha that's nothing, read a marissa thread sometime...

I could quibble w/ choices but yeah pye's list is pretty solid.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 13:57 (eighteen years ago)

Turbo came from norway, hardly a hotbed of great rock music and over time transformed themselves from ordinary euro punk band into the great unit they are today. They were even able to benedit from their singer's nervous breakdown and the band's subsequent 4 year break from music, as it let the world catch up to how great "ass cobra" and "apocalypse dudes"
were. When they came back, the music world was ready to be sexually assaulted by them -- and they were.

This is just more rhetoric. You have not given any specific examples of how turbonegro has done all those great things you said they did. For example, show me a specific example of how the music world was ready to be sexually assaulted by them after turbonegros 4 year break, but werent ready 4 years earlier. I mean without specific examples all your rhetoric is just typical wannabee-babble.

― yoko0no, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

dude i think it has been well documented in the music press how turbonegro assaults people!

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:01 (eighteen years ago)

i don't really understand people who seperate punk from just, you know, good rock music. if rock & roll isn't relevant to you than that's another thing entirely. i mean, buzzcocks and subhumans(uk) and bad brains are just three of my fave rock bands. period. the genre/sub-genre thing is secondary to me. i get my rock from all over. and the stuff that punks sing about is all the same stuff that everyone has always sung about. haircuts may change though.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:09 (eighteen years ago)

yup

― pretzel walrus, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:13 (eighteen years ago)

i hate thinking about genre, like, ever.

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:14 (eighteen years ago)

i get my rock from all over.

Best quote on ILM ever.

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:14 (eighteen years ago)

thinking about musical taxonomy is fun! i dunno, context and social meaning and all that stuff is entertaining as long as you take it for what it is, entertainment.

― pretzel walrus, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:16 (eighteen years ago)

oh context and social meaning is cool, but i don't ever sit down and chart things out on a Linnean scale--but maybe that's my problem.

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:18 (eighteen years ago)

i get my rock from roll over.

scott otm though. television = punk, new wave, indie, prog, who cares THEY R ROCK BAND

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:18 (eighteen years ago)

because admittedly i have pretty narrow tastes, so maybe doing that would expand my horizons.

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:18 (eighteen years ago)

For a board that is more than 64% of the time dedicated to music genres, it seems strange anyone here does not like thinking about musical genres...

― yoko0no, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:28 (eighteen years ago)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/splodey182/PEW.gif

― pretzel walrus, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:29 (eighteen years ago)

no no no no yoko, i'm the only dickhead that doesn't like thinking about genre! the walrus up there does and he is an A-1 Broski!

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:29 (eighteen years ago)

also, pretzel walrus OTM

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:29 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, don't get me wrong, i dig history and reading about movements and haircuts and such - last maximum rock & roll i read had great oral histories of gilman st. AND subhumans - but if it's good it'll stay good and always be relevant to someone. or useful. or inspirational. even if it's BAD it will be those things to someone.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:31 (eighteen years ago)

there's gotta be some way we can get the coders to put in a "convert to argument with PEW" button that would change all responses to that image

― pretzel walrus, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:31 (eighteen years ago)

that is the best gif ever

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:33 (eighteen years ago)

also totally, scott! i dunno, even the linnean stuff is fun as long as you don't let it get in the way of actually, you know, listening to/enjoying music.

― pretzel walrus, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:33 (eighteen years ago)

seward, that pretty much goes without saying...its a given. But how interesting would a message board or a conversation be if it was simply limited to:
Moron One:"Well, yeah, its good music, you know"
Moron Two:"Yeah, good music, man."
Moron One:"You know man?"
Moron Two:"Yeah, I dig where you are coming from."
Moron One:"Uh...do you like pizza?"
Moron Two:"Yeah man, I like pizza, you know, its good stuff man."
Moron One:"Yeah, good stuff..."

Also to Edweird: Television is not punk. I've already explained why...to continue calling them punk without any legitimate reason (and no, just because the mainstream public didnt understand punk and referred to them as punk some 30 years ago--is not a legit reason) just goest to reveal your shortcomings...

― yoko0no, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:36 (eighteen years ago)

But how interesting would a message board or a conversation be if it was simply limited to:
Moron One:"PAUL EDWARD WAGEMANN"
Moron Two:"PAUL EDWARD WAGEMANN."
Moron One:"PAUL EDWARD WAGEMANN?"
Moron Two:"PAUL EDWARD WAGEMANN."
Moron One:"Uh...do you like pizza?"
Moron Two:"PAUL EDWARD WAGEMANN."
Moron One:"PAUL EDWARD WAGEMANN."

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:39 (eighteen years ago)

yoko, please to be finding some offline friends that you can discuss this shit with, and a diner/pub/coffee shop that you can discuss it in. Remember, you each have to order something off the menu to be considered a patron. Do tip your waiter or waitress (if it's a coffee shop, show some love to the tip jar). That is all.

― Tantrum The Cat, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:53 (eighteen years ago)

Tantrum, if the point of this board isnt to discuss music, then what IS the point of it?

― yoko0no, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:58 (eighteen years ago)

I would definitely read that

xpost to mr que

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:59 (eighteen years ago)

"Thats probablly because punk had become largely irrelevent by 1984..."

i was still - for some reason. god knows why. - replying to this in my posts.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:02 (eighteen years ago)

Tantrum, if the point of this board isnt to discuss music, then what IS the point of it?

-- yoko0no, Wednesday, April 4, 2007 1:58 PM (4 minutes ago)

You're discussing music?

― Tantrum The Cat, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:04 (eighteen years ago)

hahaha like I need to call television punk to reveal my shortcomings...

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:09 (eighteen years ago)

You're discussing music?

No, I'm discussing pizza...

― yoko0no, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 22:31 (eighteen years ago)

Dick-waving about what is & isn't punk rock has fuck-all to do with music.
Go practice your High Fidelity routine elsewhere.

― Tantrum The Cat, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 23:08 (eighteen years ago)

That's hornbyist!

― Mark G, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 23:18 (eighteen years ago)

Tantrum, why are you trying to ruin my fun? I enjoyed the movie [/i]High Fidelity[/i]. Dont be such a buzzkill. If you dont want to read about the Punk versus new Wave debate then I suggest you practice a little self-discipline and refrain from clicking on this link...Seriously Poindexter, take the corndog out of your wa-toozie... this conversation isnt hurting anyone...

― yoko0no, Thursday, 5 April 2007 01:22 (eighteen years ago)

And to think I was worried I'd never get to use this sock-puppet again.

― I AM PAUL EDWARD WAGEMANN AND I DIED FOR YOUR SINS, CRETIN., Thursday, 5 April 2007 02:01 (eighteen years ago)

Tantrum, why are you trying to ruin my fun?

Serious response:

These threads of yours all seem to lead to the same thing - you spouting your alleged musical wisdom under the guise of soliciting other peoples'opinions, and on the most hackneyed topics to boot.

The funny part is I like the majority of the music you're talking about, but pitting the Beatles against the Stones (just to use one example) is for geriatrics and MOJO columnists, and it's exactly the kind of needlessly reductionist bullcrit that I come to ILM to get the fuck away from.

But don't let me stop you. Carry on with your "Top Ten Worst New Wave Haircuts" and your "Top 64 Bootleg Iggy Pop Collectibles". I'll be reading other threads from here on in.

― Tantrum The Cat, Thursday, 5 April 2007 02:27 (eighteen years ago)

"Top Ten Worst New Wave Haircuts"

okay, this might actually be fun...

― scott seward, Thursday, 5 April 2007 03:44 (eighteen years ago)

phil's haircut here might make my list:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/totp2/ugotthelook/images/human_league.jpg

― scott seward, Thursday, 5 April 2007 03:46 (eighteen years ago)

all gone :(

http://www.brownsauce.org/gallery/albums/brownsauce/Human_League_Sauce_Enhanced_all.sized.png

― scott seward, Thursday, 5 April 2007 03:48 (eighteen years ago)

i don't really understand people who seperate punk from just, you know, good rock music.

I always hate it when people, yes that includes YOU Scott, say this. What is so bad about categorization? I mean, when you go into the supermarket would you want your fruit lumped with, say, toilet paper? Sometimes it makes it easier for people. Some people like *order* and there's nothing wrong with labeling something as it places something in the *grand scheme* of things. You might not like your music put into neat little subgenres, but that doesn't mean others don't. If you want to discuss something, especially something which is unknown to the other, then you need a label/genre/whatever. Of course nitpicking is a bit daft. At the end of the day you gotta let go.

― nathalie, Thursday, 5 April 2007 13:27 (eighteen years ago)

i don't have a problem with labels. i was still answering the dude's punk-was-over-by-84 comments. i was saying that if you like good rock music than there will always be worthwhile reasons to listen to punk rock. and that includes new music. i don't believe in monoliths. punk means so many different things to so many people. it's like saying, "that art doesn't work anymore, it's broken". it's ALWAYS gonna work for SOMEONE. and people are always gonna get something out of any form of music no matter how neglected it is. not that punk is all that neglected. it still thrives all over.

maybe what i never understood is the idea that if something doesn't take over the planet that it's over or bankrupt or something.

― scott seward, Thursday, 5 April 2007 13:56 (eighteen years ago)

and liking good rock music is only ONE reason of many why punk is still vital and worth hearing. punk inspires art, writing, movies, other non-punk genres of every variety. it inspires people to start bands and labels and zines and more importantly it inspires people every day to hate and/or question their government and parents. and their grandma. and their science teacher.

― scott seward, Thursday, 5 April 2007 14:04 (eighteen years ago)

there is no such thing as a "dead" genre. everything is ripe for the picking. always and forever.

― scott seward, Thursday, 5 April 2007 14:07 (eighteen years ago)

Do you people know why Crass always intended to disband in 1984?

― yoko0no, Thursday, 5 April 2007 16:34 (eighteen years ago)

some tax shit?

― sexyDancer, Thursday, 5 April 2007 16:36 (eighteen years ago)

i think it was yoko's fault

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 5 April 2007 16:36 (eighteen years ago)

They secretly invented the mac?

― John Justen, Thursday, 5 April 2007 17:11 (eighteen years ago)

scott seward is a genius. i applaud the monitor when he posts.

― stevie, Thursday, 5 April 2007 19:14 (eighteen years ago)

in my experience, people that say "punk is dead" haven't actually dug down into the underground and checked out what's going on for like years.

but yeah skot OTM x a million.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, 5 April 2007 19:53 (eighteen years ago)

ibid

― Pye Poudre, Thursday, 5 April 2007 20:05 (eighteen years ago)

yoko, you're an ass. everyone agrees. im done feeding the troll.

― UncleTomfly, Friday, 6 April 2007 02:14 (eighteen years ago)

Those Human League chicks are still hot.

― MC, Friday, 6 April 2007 12:41 (eighteen years ago)

Really? They look like a couple psychotic PTA mothers to me...

― yoko0no, Friday, 6 April 2007 16:05 (eighteen years ago)

"psychotic"

― Mr. Que, Friday, 6 April 2007 16:08 (eighteen years ago)

the fartz

― Tinky-Winky, Friday, 6 April 2007 20:14 (eighteen years ago)

in my experience, people that say "punk is dead" haven't actually dug down into the underground and checked out what's going on for like years.

Could be applied to any genre ever.

― Geir Hongro, Friday, 6 April 2007 20:48 (eighteen years ago)

Geir OTM, AGAIN

this is getting weird

― Hans Rott, Saturday, 7 April 2007 17:39 (eighteen years ago)

oh the 10 best btw

clikitat ikitowi
yaphet kotto
antioch arrow
born against
moss icon
rorshach
nausea
submission hold
circle takes the square
his hero is gone
amebix

fuck it that's eleven, you get an extra

― Hans Rott, Saturday, 7 April 2007 18:10 (eighteen years ago)

what the hell...

Minor Threat
The Clash
Black Flag
Dead Kennedys
Ramones
Sex Pistols
The Stooges
The Stranglers
The Business
The Suspects

― Jlahr, Saturday, 7 April 2007 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

wait I thought some more, it's actually

shai hulud
crossed out
rupture
shudder to think
prozac memory
plaid retina
shelter
wrangler brutes
new mexican disaster squad

and the effigies

― Hans Rott, Saturday, 7 April 2007 19:04 (eighteen years ago)

more like Cougar League amirite

― milo z, Sunday, 8 April 2007 03:17 (eighteen years ago)

Prozac Memory is great! But 'punk'?

My favorite punk band might be the Dictators, though.

― Tape Store, Sunday, 8 April 2007 04:34 (eighteen years ago)

McClusky
Minutemen
Blondie
Shellac
Television
Patti Smith Group
Bikini Kill
Buzzcocks
The Pop Group
Ramones

― I know, right?, Sunday, 8 April 2007 21:05 (eighteen years ago)

Woah Prozac Memory! Columbia Missouri, yeah!

― Mr. Que, Sunday, 8 April 2007 22:06 (eighteen years ago)

Who are you Mr. Que? Do I know you?

― Tape Store, Monday, 9 April 2007 00:16 (eighteen years ago)

With a few exceptions, punk rock fucking sucks.

― Mr. Snrub, Monday, 9 April 2007 00:20 (eighteen years ago)

Geir OTM, AGAIN

this is getting weird

http://www.google.com/search?hl=no&q=%22geir+otm%22&meta=

;)

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 9 April 2007 00:32 (eighteen years ago)

Who are you Mr. Que? Do I know you?

-- Tape Store, Sunday, April 8, 2007 8:16 PM (Yesterday)

Yeah dude maybe you do. I lived in Columbia from 1991-1999. I also lived with Jared from PM back in the day. Who are you?

― Mr. Que, Monday, 9 April 2007 14:48 (eighteen years ago)

who who who who - i really wanna know, who are you? Who who who who...

Is McClusky really punk though???

― Tinky-Winky, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 02:06 (eighteen years ago)

I doubt I know you, actually. I've lived in Columbia my whole life (=1989), but I really only started hanging out with cool people a few years ago...I'm friends with David (of True/False), Tripmaker (of I had a psychotic reaction to LSD) and Jeremy (of Jerusalem & Starbaskts). I'm kind of good acquaintances with Hunter and Gabe (of Mahjongg), and I'm a part of Cat Jams (Channing K.'s label). Know anyone I named?

― Tape Store, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 02:28 (eighteen years ago)

Surely, a reaction was needed against the bad and way too mainstream thing that called itself "progressive" rock without being "progressive" at all, but a return to the three chord roots through punk was a step in the wrong direction rather than the right one.

One should rather have gone for an elitist experimental modernist avant garde movement to knock the entire corporate rock thing to the ground and replace it with some true art.

― Camenend Bob Dole, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 08:02 (eighteen years ago)

One should rather have gone for an elitist experimental modernist avant garde movement to knock the entire corporate rock thing to the ground and replace it with some true art.

But isn't that what at least part of post-punk was? Pere Ubu to thread!

― Guilty_Boksen, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 11:42 (eighteen years ago)

I thought the term Post-punk only applied to British bands?

― Tinky-Winky, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 12:27 (eighteen years ago)

Top 10:

The Clash
Minutemen
The Sex Pistols
Black Flag
Husker Du
Public Image Ltd. (original lineup)
The Replacements (original lineup)
The Monks
Fugazi
Bikini Kill

Then (roughly):

Rocket from the Tombs
Wire
Beat Happening
Pere Ubu
Flipper
X
Talking Heads
Dead Kennedys
The Big Boys
Mission of Burma
The Dicks
Heavens to Betsy
The Suicide Commandos
Plugz
Descendents
Adolescents
The Bad Brains
Misfits
Scream
The Avengers
The Sonics
Die Kreuzen
The Crucifucks
MDC

and I know I'm forgetting some favorites...

― Pete Scholtes, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 15:07 (eighteen years ago)

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