The National

Anyone else catch "Mistaken for Strangers", the documentary ostensibly by Matt Beringer's brother Tom? Highly enjoyable.

In a way, aren't we all Matt Beringer's brother?

Its weird how they've basically become shorthand for indie's more insufferable tendencies. (Note: I might find this weird bcz I have never listened to a Ntl song)

I don't think the National or their tendencies are insufferable at all.

I was mistaken for a stranger the other day!

I listened to them and they weren't as good as Steve Reich, p insufferable

The documentary is great. I literally both laughed and cried during it. I wonder if people who don't have brothers would enjoy this movie as much as I did.

Good show in the rain last night!

drinking pink rabbits?

should have. Too much wine mixed with beer = worst hangover.

no rain on sunday night, and also not sold out so it was probably a little less crowded. this was the best of the three shows of theirs I've seen.

"Mistaken for Strangers" is one of the most honest and affecting movies I've seen in a long time.

Really?

thought it was crap tbh

Why? I thought it was a relatively unique glimpse of what it's like to live in the shadow of a successful older sibling, who happens to sing in a popular band. I found it interesting to watch the two work through their issues via the erstwhile band doc. Tom's incompetence is both funny and sad, but there are aspects of his personality that the movie hints at rather than hits you over the head with (problems with alcohol and depression), traits he may happen to share with his big bro, who respectively channels those things into the National. There's a nice theme of finding what you're good at and focusing on that; lots of people are sort of charmed or envious of Tom's guilelessness and general happiness, but because he's not as overtly successful as Matt, he has trouble seeing those traits as attributes, which leads to failure paralysis. A lot of narrative pieces sort of luckily fell into place here - an ostensible doc about a band with three sets of brothers, made by the one brother not in the band - though I suspect the project was probably saved by Berninger's wife, who knows a thing or two about editing. Regardless, a lot of accidental insight, like Tom literally clutching on to Matt's mic cord for dear life as Matt hurtles forward, Tom dragging behind ...

I dunno. I just found it , like I said, honest and affecting. I watched it with my wife, who doesn't listen to the National and usually doesn't like rock docs and even as the movie made itself clear, found it sort of painful to watch, but was ultimately surprised by its poignancy.

That description is not helping.

i thought it was great.

Josh, your description makes me want to see the movie now.

Yeah, I like The National but really had no interest in seeing this until I read Josh's description.

fuck this band

there are so many glimpses of good things and then it's just npr

okay

hey it's a baritone

Mistaken for Strangers was good. I didn't love it but it's solid and good.

New national album is good. I also don't love 100% of it but it's good.

I love seeing the National live. They're reliably entertaining and energetic and for a 'rock band' frontman who sings mopey songs Matt is really gerat on stage and his crowd-wandering stuff is always fun.

there are so many glimpses of good things and then it's just npr

npr: there are so many glimpses of good things and then it's just chris thile

npr: there are so many glipses of good things and then it's just kai ryssdal

I was under the impression that Brooklyn was some kind of artistic hotbed in the 00s, kind of a bummer that one of their most successful exports is a plain ole meat and potatoes moody rock band with bad singing

Sorry!

This is maybe gonna sound weird but my whole life I thought this band had both black and white members and I just looked at a picture of them for the first time ever and.... they're all white! OK I don't really know how I formed this misapprehension.

yeeaahhh me neither

pfffft, i a bet a bunch of people on this thread go into other threads and stan for fuckin' kanye

tfw u realize you've mixed up The National with TV on the Radio for 15 years

this band sounds like a glass of milk being poured

any tracks in particular?

The entirety of I Am Easy to Find, except it doesn't actually taste like milk.

this band sounds like a glass of milk being poured

― lumen (esby)

no, that sounds like something i'd actually want to listen to

for instance, here is the sound of an egg being fried for 12 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3_7yhf1GiM

i certainly can't recommend the record on gustatory grounds

Why are they called The National? It's always rubbed me the wrong way.

National Front was taken haha

tfw u realize you've mixed up The National with TV on the Radio for 15 years

Oh I do think this is exactly what happened, it looks like both these bands came out around the same time and were from New York and made a bunch of indie-ish records I never heard, I did not exactly think they were the same band but maybe I thought one was a side project or offshoot of the other.

Amazon has an incorrect tracklist for the Belle & Sebastian album out Friday. I thought it was somebody's parody titles but googling tells me this is for the new album by The National (based on them playing two of these songs live). Have they announced a new album yet or should I start a new-album detective agency?

1 Once Upon A Poolside (feat. Sufjan Stevens)
2 Eucalyptus
3 New Order T-Shirt
4 This Isn't Helping (feat. Phoebe Bridgers)
5 Tropic Morning News
6 Alien
7 The Alcott (With Taylor Swift)
8 Grease In Your Hair
9 Ice Machines
10 Your Mind Is Not Your Friend (feat. Phoebe Bridgers)
11 Send For Me

Obviously Belle & Sebastian and the National have merged into one group, Belle & Sebastional.

The Boy With The Alligator Strap

looking forward to future dad rock staple, New Order T-Shirt

anyway, they are playing bottlerock in napa in May so I assume they have a new album on the way and that tracklist looks likely. glad to see Phoebe all over it.

glad that "weird goodbyes" apparently isn't on it because it wasn't very good

Phoebe seems to be everywhere.

There might still be other songs on the album (even "Weird Goodbyes"?). Somebody pointed out, given the way this leaked, that the 11 track limit might match the number of tracks on the B&S album this appeared under by mistake, not the full number on The National album.

1 Once Upon A Poolside (feat. Sufjan Stevens)
2 Eucalyptus
3 New Order T-Shirt

wtf

“once upon a poolside” has got to be the most national song title of all time

If you'd said "By the Poolside I Sat and Wept," maybe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdU0qwZKLfU

leaked tracklist was accurate. album is 47 minutes long (thank god) (even though i liked the last one's sprawl)

not as good as their past two lead singles but it's decent

why do you feat. Phoebe Bridgers but With Taylor Swift?

Maybe she co-wrote the song with them, and the others are just featured on songs that the band wrote?

yeah possible

https://shop.americanmary.com/products/new-order-t-shirt

this is so stupid i have to get it

that’s great, definitely buying for my partner

love the t-shirt

really wish I loved the song but it's so nothingy

can't hate, it's just got no melody, nothing to latch onto

Album out Friday. NME (lol) has said it's their best in a decade and given it five stars.

Have really liked the two more recent songs they've released from it though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSywJt3VlUM

Of all the bands I'd totally expect to just keep putting out good albums it's this one.

A nice note is that Matt sliding the SM7 down on the mic stand at the end of the video is just faintly, barely audible enough to confirm that the video you're watching is a factual document of the final vocal performance

Their last one was the best to my ears; having female harmonists and co-vocalists leavened the preppy male angst.

this is probably their most mellow, middle-of-the-road, unexciting album yet

which is a shame after the last two were a little more interesting and had some of their strongest material (there's definitely a case for i am easy to find as their best)

Yeah. Shame that all the guest vocalists are strictly on backing duties, especially after the last album. At least Taylor gets a few lines to sing on her own I suppose unlike Phoebe.

taylor's appearance is prominent enough but it's weird that the others get a feature credit for some backing vocals, especially compared to the last album where more prominent guest vocalists didn't

ppl describing the new national album as “mor” gets me excited about it, actually

it just feels like they're spinning their wheels here, there's nothing that comes close to "you had your soul with you" or "the system only dreams in total darkness" or anything

The System Dreams in MOR

Not every fan of the national is a divorced guy who owns an npr t shirt but every divorced guy who owns an npr t shirt is a fan of the national

— eve6 (@Eve6) April 28, 2023

I am so dead-center in the National’s supposed demographic (but married and no NPR t-shirt but I listen the shit out of NPR) but I just can’t get with the National. A little too close to home maybe.

Tuned out for no partic reason after Boxer, which I loved. Thinking of dipping back in but no sure where to start

trouble will find me!

yeah that's the only really good post boxer album for me

go backwards imo, alligator as good as boxer, sometimes better

two first have some jams

I read the New Yorker profile, then I read a Washington Post profile, and clearly they are in the promo zone, because the overlap was remarkable.

I tried a pink rabbit thanks to The National.

yeah that's the only really good post boxer album for me

― corrs unplugged, sobota, 29 kwietnia 2023 16:33 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

go backwards imo, alligator as good as boxer, sometimes better

two first have some jams

― corrs unplugged, sobota, 29 kwietnia 2023 16:34 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think the run from Alligator to High Violet is pretty stellar. Trouble Will Find Me is good, too, but could maybe use a trim?

I thought the last one, I Am Easy To Find was excellent.

As Alfred mentions, the guest vocalists give a fresh spin to their sound.

sleep well beast also has a crackling second side. only real dud on that album is “turtleneck” which should've been relegated to a lame resistance comp called rock against trump

Every "Automatic for the People" has its "Ignoreland."

guys this is a good record

i bet! the subtler they are the better. will be listening finally tomorrow

the subleties being less interesting this time than the last two albums are a big part of the problem too

listen… shhh

I mean I guess if you're still holding a torch for Alligator then Alligator will still be your favorite The National record *shrug*

this one's got the usual hooks that grow into earworms and sneaky compositions and wryly observed miserablisms and bryan devendorf and I'm not inclined to complain about any of that.

early standouts: once upon a poolside, tropic morning news, your mind is not your friend.

trouble will find me!

― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Saturday, April 29, 2023

honestly the best The National record top to bottom. iykyk.

surprised so many people liked I am Easy to Find so much; I like it, but it didn't stick with me at all. I prefer this one by some measure.

"eucalyptus" is like walking outside and noticing the temperature is nice and there's a cool breeze and then seeing black clouds hovering on the horizon, v powerful song

what about the cowboy junkies
what about the afghan whigs

new album inspired a discog run and it's making me think about how much i ended up loving this band despite being resistant at every step of the way bc they so live up to their (reductive, revealed as grossly inaccurate as soon as you sink below the surface) reputation of making MOR indie rock for the recently or about-to-be divorced. i think ultimately what ensnared me were berninger and bessin's lyrics, which, in describing lives whose spasms of decadence and opulence inadequately disguise a void within, a routine sameness in their days they long to break out of and the process of breaking out leads them into quotidian surrealities, seemed to picking up right where john cheever left off. the opening lines of "fake empire" (stay out super late tonight / baking apples, making pie / put a little something in our lemonade and take it with us") were also immediate echoes of my first few weeks in new york, discovering that since i didn't have to drive anywhere i would spend some nights walking home in such a state of semidrunk that every block felt like waltzing across a crooked tightrope.

once the lyrics got to me, i was able to scale back from the grain of the words to the more nimbusy qualities of the music, the cloud that tightens around your head during a hangover and makes every event of your day slip slightly into unreality. it's a universe made of gestures and flourishes and subtleties, a shadowed theater where these pathetic characters drink, talk about their favorite records, fail to say what they mean to each other and only realize it later when it's too late and even that realization falls away into an increasingly unfocused landscape of emotional events. i feel like the only songs where i notice they're progressing through chords are the piano-based ones, otherwise i feel like their songs are sinuous tours through melody and counterpoint and syncopation (especially whenever devendorf, one of the greatest drummers alive, is driving the song as if he's the real lead guitarist).

anyway i'm listening to trouble will find me right now and it's still clearly their masterwork, everything i mentioned in the previous two paragraphs is present there in its most refined form. also "don't swallow the cap" is the only national song i've ever seen in a karaoke book and so it's the only one i've sung, surprisingly(?) a lot of fun

as the free-fall advances
i'm the moron who dances

Good post! My favorite National song is still "England," which gestures toward a faraway land he may not even want to reach ("Afraid of the house, stay the night with the sinners/Afraid of the house, cause they're desperate to entertain" is a chilling refrain).

Was worried I wouldn't get into the new one, but then they slot "Eucalyptus" second and I'm all in.

Has any band name-dropped as many real bands as the National?

probably the hold steady

Along with that, Brad totally otm re: this run:

the only songs where i notice they're progressing through chords are the piano-based ones, otherwise i feel like their songs are sinuous tours through melody and counterpoint and syncopation (especially whenever devendorf, one of the greatest drummers alive, is driving the song as if he's the real lead guitarist).

anyway i'm listening to trouble will find me right now and it's still clearly their masterwork,

Hold Steady or ... Gaslight Anthem, maybe?

They were, predictably, really good tonight. But they're always good live. Good span of stuff, maybe nothing from "I Am Easy to Find," but nice tastes of pretty much all their other stuff. First of four shows, so I assume they will shake it up here and there.

I'm liking this album, sure it's one note but comfort food. I have only heard it a couple of times so it can go either way.

the more you listen the less it's one note. it's sneaky. it's good. half of it is great. the hooks take their time getting under your skin, but once they're in they're in.

in retrospect, high violet suddenly seems frantic and overstuffed.

The appeal of this band seems to be “divorced dads” but more extensively it is “white folks who find comfort in their mediocrity being writ large and celebrated”

“white folks who find comfort in their mediocrity being writ large and celebrated”

Mm that came off harsh and it wasn’t meant that way. I really like The National, Boxer especially, and when I think about “why” I like them, it strikes me that they appeal to me in an adjacent way to music that strives for compositional ambience— Satie, Eno, SOTL— but in The National’s case they are purveyors of a kind of cultural ambience, I guess

The appeal of this band seems to be “divorced dads”

Is that really the demographic in the band's own country? Over here in Eastern Europe, the fans of the The National I have met have been almost invariably hipsters in their twenties, including a lot of female ones.

I really don't hear any more "white folks, amirite?" in the National than I do in most indie rock. But I do hear the compositional ambience complement, as their music is often so gorgeous/rousing/dynamic/moving that I doubt many people make an effort to consider why and how it gets that way. I can think of few more invisibly complicated time signature tricks than in "I Should Live in Salt," for example, but unlike most bands that might operate in that realm, I don't get the feeling the band started out with the intent of making it tricky. It's just what worked best. (See also, maybe: "Turn It On Again" by Genesis)

otm!

invisibly complicated time signature tricks might make for a thread, words by neil young comes to mind

"Tropic Morning News" is my jam. What an ear worm.

first 5 tracks + “your mind is not your friend” all good to great

Surprise new album Laugh Track out midnight tonight

Our new album Laugh Track is out on Monday at Midnight ET pic.twitter.com/Zk0ZxD912H

— The National (@TheNational) September 16, 2023

Our new album Laugh Track is out on Monday at Midnight ET pic.twitter.com/Zk0ZxD912H

— The National (@TheNational) September 16, 2023

I wonder if the title "Laugh Track" is ironic?

i liked frankenstein more than most but *this* is the national record i've been waiting for

the song with rosanne cash is out of this world

These guys are not only a great example of dad rock, they are its apotheosis.

specifically a hip aging urban dad though?

An aging suburban dad who is so unhip he's come back around to being hip again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB5YkmjalDg

Yeah, that Rosanne Cash song is the sort of thing I was hoping for more of on Frankenstein when they announced all the guest vocalists xps

I'm just glad Phoebe Bridgers is getting some work.

finally got around to the new one and it's actually pretty decent, though still maybe a little long .pleasantly surprised after how much of a bore first two pages was. there's a nice looser, jammy quality to it but the songs are stronger too so they don't just meander away into nothing like they're very capable of doing

I've liked everything this band has done, outright love at least four of their records, and thought they were as good as they've ever been when I saw them play a few months ago, and yet ... I haven't gotten around to either this new one or its predecessor.

very similar to my trajectory with other dad rock staple Wilco (and YLT to extent).

Heh, re: Wilco, there are at least four records I haven't heard. I also haven't heard any of Tweedy's solo records, or the Tweedy "Sukierae" album! Yo La ... I'm not sure I've spent much time with anything from "Summer Sun" on, but I have given each album a couple of listens and don't recall any of them being particularly bad.

This is actually part of a broader philosophical discussion I've had with myself re: prolific or consistent bands: how much time *should* I spend with them? There are 17 or so Yo La Tengo albums. That's a lot! There are as many Wilco and related albums. That's a lot, too! The National only have 10, and that includes the first couple that no one really counts, but 10 is a lot, too! So right there we have three bands I like that between them have released no less than 13 albums I absolutely love, and even then I don't know how often I get around to listening to those 13 albums, despite being longtime favorites of mine. It's honestly kind of frustrating, especially when you factor in the steady drip of new releases, or podcast episodes, or John Zorn dropping 900 albums onto Spotify.

and that includes the first couple that no one really counts

Sad Songs... is a great album. Have spent a lot of time listening to that one.

It is good! But it's kind of overshadowed, imo.

finally ilm will be about the music we aren't listening to

I'm not listening to over 99.99% of music right now.

I like both of these two national albums fine, but they are a little dull compared to Boxer, Alligator, and High Violet. But there's nothing bad on them at all, definitely. That's def where Wilco landed to me sometime around Ghost...I listen to the records, they're good, they don't stick with me, whether that's the fault of the album or just my jaded ears, I don't know. At least they aren't making albums I think suck.

and like, I'm still going to go see the National live on this tour, even though they are playing a place I hate. Because they are phenomenal live, even when they play things I don't love.

yo la tengo and wilco are definitely much more interesting bands with much higher highs and yo la tengo put out one of their very best albums just this year

the national are kinda frustrating because they seem capable of making something really compelling and great but never quite get there beyond the occasional track here and there. very good at being fine, decent enough, etc. though

yeah I was going to say I was actually surprised by that YLT album, it kind of somehow regained all that magic that I'd loved and felt kind of disappeared with Summer Sun. I also think the National might still again make another album as strong as High Violet. But they also might turn into U2.

Just heard the track they did with Taylor Swift ("Alcott"), I kinda dug it.

still can't say I love the last two albums (or even three or four) as much as anything prior but I saw them last night in SF and they remain one of my favorite live acts. 29 song set, even things I didn't love or wasn't super familiar with were great.

"I was afraid, I'd eat your brains/ cause I'm evil"

Anyone interested in a proper National tracks and albums poll?

I'd probably only be voting for the first 5 releases but would be interested in following and seeing what people's favorites from the last 5 releases are

i have this very firm memory when i was a college dj and i went to a show The National headlined. the opener was Clap Your Hands Say Yeah and a good 40% of the room left after they played. at the time i laughed but now i keep thinking they may have been right.

I signed up to do this but will never get around to it. I will vote if you do it.

at the time i laughed but now i keep thinking they may have been right.

Matt Berninger lyric.

here's a top 12

you had your soul with you
the system only dreams in total darkness
i'll still destroy you
guilty party
dark side of the gym
about today
all the wine
wasp nest
secret meeting
fake empire
empire line
so far so fast

a bit hard to care beyond that though - they're just not that good, frustratingly middle of the road, they rarely lean into their most interesting ideas

I made the mistake of listening "Tropic Morning News" last Saturday and I can't get the damn chorus out of my head. Help!

i haven't spent much time with the last two at all. first two pages was very underwhelming and laugh track was more solid than i expected but didn't have anything to make me want to come back to it

i wish they could write songs as good as "you had your soul with you" consistently. sleep well beast is probably their best album but it could really do with a few tracks cut from it. cherry tree is too often overlooked as a release although it doesn't have the extended "about today" which makes the song

i think what they're generally missing is a bit of jaggedness so when they throw that in on "you had your soul with you" and "the system only dreams of total darkness" everything comes together wonderfully

Yes, I did enjoy early in their career when he'd slip into a bit of mania, but some of their more subdued, prettier tracks contain jaggedness in their lyrics, e.g., "Daughters of the Soho Riots," "Slow Show."

I've always been an Alligator/Boxer guy but recently revisited High Violet and Trouble Will Find Me and found both to be better than I'd remembered. There are moments on those records where each band member's gifts are on full display but come together and meld into something on another level from their earlier work. Devedorf's unique drumming in particular is an absolute force propelling High Violet.

trouble will find me is their boxer of the nü-era

it's still their best

for me it's alligator or boxer, I'd probably take sad songs over trouble will find me but
trouble will find me >>> high violet

"I was afraid, I'd eat your brains/ cause I'm evil"

loved seeing the thread bumped with this lyric, "conversation 16" is probably my favorite national song

Counterpoint: they haven't recorded bad or mediocre albums.