Best song on Physical Graffiti

It can't be done.

I think "Kashmir" will win it, but I'm going to go with "In My Time of Dying". The climax they hit is unbelievable, and I like how the song never actually ends, after all the time it eats up.

It can't be done.

"Trampled," obv.

It really is hard, isn't it?

I voted "In the Light," but I can't defend it.

THE ONE WITH THE CLAVINET

I am going to annoy everyone with my vote but I can't help it due to my love of excessive use of delay effects on drumkits

"In the Light" is a great choice--the shift to the major key after the minor drone, the electric piano break, Plant's woo-hoo-yay-yeah!
I didn't vote for it, though, because the extended synth lines come to drag on a bit after you've heard the song 100 times.

I am going to annoy everyone with my vote but I can't help it due to my love of excessive use of delay effects on drumkits

What, "Boogie with Stu"? I was thinking of voting for that one, too! Really, this poll is impossible for me...love every song on this album.

Ten Years Gone narrowly beats The Rover

haha yes I love it but everyone else I know just thinks its boring blues piffle

x-post

10 Years Gone

Kashmir has stolen ITL's thunder as PG's epic jam, so the former gets my vote…

"The Rover." That guitar riff under the chorus rules.

'Sick Again' holds up well, and of all of the boots I've heard it's the one that they seem to get into and Jimmie wakes up from his stupor. Then again, it was usually early in the set.

yeah, and they would play the intro to "The Rover" but then go into "Sick Again"! man, 77 tour was so sick.

Wanton over My Time of Dying.

Ten Years Gone. Oh wow that riff at the end repeated over and over. So awesome.

Wanton Song obv what is wrong with you people

Ten Years Gone

Dammit I wanted to be the first one to say "Wanton Song"!

Of course, I'll wanna retract my vote tomorrow and say "Kashmir" or something. But "Wanton"'s always in my top five, no question. Basically it always comes down to "Wanton Song" or anything off the first LP except "Custard Pie".

ok but you're forgetting one thing: "Custard Pie" kicks ass.

"Trampled," obv.

also, as much as I'd love to stomp on this as the dumb rock radio choice, it also kicks ass. Much ass.

interesting about "Trampled Under Foot" -- for all the big talk of the name of the song, the production is thin compared to the rest of the album (see: Kashmir). The drum sound could have been 10x bigger and there would have been a lot more trampling, but the groove would have been the same. "Trampled" is one of their best exercises in groove.

Its the obvious choice but I'm gonna go with Kashmir, that drum sound, Plants vocals. Its about as epic as it can get.

I would say that "Kashmir" probably deserves the win...

"Ten Years Gone", in a close one over "Houses of the Holy". Probably my favorite Plant performance, esp. the multitracked wailing at the end.

The Rover!

I considered "Wanton Song" too, but I ultimately went with "Trampled" for the disco-metal element.

I more prepared to vote on which album sequence I prefer (the cassette version with "Bron-Yr-Aur" closing out Side One and "Down By the Seaside" immediately following "In the Light" on Side Two) than I am prepared to vote for "Best Song" on this record.

IN MY TIME OF DYING: Excluding their live cuts, it is the longest Zeppelin song (11:08).

HOUSES OF THE HOLY:The squeak of John Bonham's drum pedal can be heard about 3 minutes in.

KASHMIR: The signature guitar riff began as a tuning cycle Jimmy Page had been using for years.

IN THE LIGHT: Never played live because Jones could not reproduce the synthesizer sound outside the studio.

talkin' 'bout love!

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I don't know if it is the best song, but I picked "In My Time of Dying" because it is my favorited Zep tune. The way Bonham's drumming continually builds in intensity over a gruelling 11 minutes is mind-blowing.

"Kashmir" and "Trampled" are pretty much perfect too.

Franz Ferdinand got their whole sound by playing up the disco elements on "Trampled Under Foot".

The way Bonham's drumming continually builds in intensity over a gruelling 11 minutes is mind-blowing.

Yes. That is one of John Bonham's finest moments.

This is really hard. "The Rover", "Ten Years Gone," "Houses of the Holy," and "The Wanton Song" are all life-affirming (not to mention "Kashmir"). I'm leaning towards TYG but it hurts to choose.

Fuckit, I voted for "night flight". what the hell.

Ugh, it can't be done.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

If I only voted, I could have made it a tie!

Nice to see so many votes for the rover

I think this was the first non-Beatles album of whose status as a "classic"/big statement I was aware

"In the Light" is quite remarkable - like a lot of great Zeppelin moments, it's hard to think of anybody else evoking a similar mood or even trying to: for all their blues roots 'n' trappings, the end result is very much a thing apart

I should have written that book about them that I was supposed to write, but life got in the way

I'm kind of surprised that there hasn't been a bigger throwdown thread on this album, too - it has such a distinctive signature, it's so all-by-itself: whose double album is quite this this one? what are they trying to do? has it got a big single-album unity to it or is it just that they had a lot of songs & were kind of in-the-pocket?

perfect summer music for me although probably still has to take a back seat to Houses of the Holy in the final analysis

I always feel like the first disc is super-unified, and if it stood alone would be LZ's greatest album, but the second disc is kinda thrown-together, "here's a whole bunch more songs we had kicking around." They're good songs, but they're not an album the way the first disc is an album.

If I remember the liner notes correctly, the 3rd and 4th sides were filled with stuff that had been recorded previously, the first two sides were new. I think the first disc has a pretty cohesive, almost "funk" feel, while the second is all over the map. In a good way.

xpost

you know, I hear you kinda, unperson, insofar as if the second disc had been released as a single album it might have tanked, but on the other hand it's sort their "experimental" side - drums dropping in & out, some weird transitional stuff - it's like the more Album Rock album to me, allowing itself to be weird 'cause they've already proven themselves on the first disc. Also, "the Wanton Song" is massively underrated.

wow i must have missed this. but id have voted for "ten years gone"

I wonder what I voted for.

I didn't vote for "Sick Again", but I remember thinking after I clicked it that I should have.

xxpost

I would have voted for TYG, too. Though "In My Time Of Dying" was a mighty Asgardian thunderbolt live based on a couple of boots I have.

Yeah for Ten Years Gone, such fine taste on this board

yeah, and they would play the intro to "The Rover" but then go into "Sick Again"! man, 77 tour was so sick.

No shit. The tape I had from the Agora in Cleveland was easily the best Zep boot I ever heard, "Rover" --> "Sick Again" included. The "Nobody's Fault But Mine" (with the tape recorder shutting off in the middle) prob. their finest live moment. And yes, that version of "Trampled" positively crushed the studio version.

I knew a woman who was at that show, actually, and she was given a pill of some kind the minute she got in the door -- told me she didn't remember a thing after that.

Fuckit, I voted for "night flight". what the hell. -- Pleasant Plains

How teh fekk did I miss this poll? I would've voted for "Night Flight" too ...most probably!

My vote would've been for when the bass drum goes totally ape about four minutes into "In My Time of Dying."

I went back and listened and after much soul searching, The Rover should have gotten my vote over Ten Years Gone.

'custard pie' is underrated

'night flight' wuz robbed

I wonder what I voted for.

― Rock Hardy, Monday, July 9, 2007 6:00 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark

I still have no idea what I would vote for if polls were open.

Down by the Seaside 0
Houses of the Holy 0
Custard Pie 0

= why ilm sucks

totally forgot what i voted for btw

probably IMToD for the drums

For me Plant's career high is maybe "Night Flight." What s singer.

I think I voted "In The Light" but pretty much every song here is close to my heart.

i know i will have voted for the rover

Would've voted Ten Years Gone.

Don't remember if I voted, but zero votes for "Houses of the Holy" hurts me in my heart. Song is awesome.

Can someone please tell me if In My time of Dying is supposed to be in the key of A? I have an old CD version of Phys Graf, like probably from the early 90s, and In My Time of Dying seems to be at a different speed on mine than it is on this youtube version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhd3wEG4BXM
(which is a step and a half lower than mine)

And also in a different key than the live versions I've heard.

yeah it's in open G (DGDGBD) + capo on 2nd fret = A

Ah ok, so maybe the above clip is slowed down and they just did it in a different key live for Plant's voice or something.

that clip above sounds okay to me - i remember hearing the pre-remasters physical graffiti had a botched 'in my time of dying' but i never heard it and can't confirm. without a doubt my favourite track on this album, though, and maybe my favourite zep of all time.

Me on Phys Graf.

good to see you back marcello!

great piece MC, and sorry to hear of your health travails.

John Paul Jones’ sardonic harpsichord commentary - loved this

I wasn't around for this poll at the time, but if I had been I honestly don't know what I would have chosen! There's so much great stuff on this record, possibly my favourite Led Zeppelin album, that it would have been very difficult for me to make a choice. Just as well that the poll is over and I don't have to, then! :D

good to see you back marcello!

― Jimmy Riddle Orchestra (Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker), Monday, January 16, 2012 1:21 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

good to see you back marcello!

― Jimmy Riddle Orchestra (Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker), Monday, January 16, 2012 1:21 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

― incredible shrinking man on euphonium (Drugs A. Money), Monday, January 16, 2012 1:31 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

good to see you back marcello!

― Jimmy Riddle Orchestra (Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker), Monday, January 16, 2012 1:21 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

― incredible shrinking man on euphonium (Drugs A. Money), Monday, January 16, 2012 1:31 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

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down by the seaside was ripped off big time

No votes for 'Custard Pie', eh?

sometimes i think that if Physical Graffiti was recorded with the Led Zeppelin IV, louder,dirtier sound, it could have been even a greater record.
between the two records, i think IV is a slightly better record because it doesn't have that clean, studio sound.

But...parts of this album were done at the IV sessions!

small parts, and Seaside is a relatively quiet ballad

http://www.steady130.com/?p=11818

does anyone else feel like when british people sing about jesus they only know about him from listening to american records

lol

Every time I find myself at a keyboard set to sound like a clavinet, I get an uncontrollable urge to launch into "Trampled Under Foot"

"Down by the Seaside" was robbed.

but "Ten Years Gone" would have still got my vote.

This is wonderful!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYuOZnAqQCY

that's fantastic.

ten years gone juuuuust edges it over in my time of dying, for me. love the massive slide blues thing on dying, but ten years gone is just radiant, and so genuinely underplayed - like, as much as i love rain song, it goes for the big crescendo towards the end. but ten years gone is so tender and subtle, it always gets me.

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/19834-led-zeppelin-ivhouses-of-the-holyphysical-graffiti/

I always find the rockin' blink and you'll miss it breakdown in the middle of "Down By the Seaside" a pleasant surprise.

No way is this the band's best album, but it's pretty darn diverse. I'm not sure I'm parsing Mark's review right, but I always thought the higher pitched "pinched" Plant vox he references were often just Plant literally pitched higher, in the studio. Dunno why the band did this, but they did a lot of messing around in the studio.

whoever noted "Down by the Seaside" as NY+Crazy Horse homage pastiche = otm

I always heard it as their fake country song, a la "Girl With Faraway Eyes." But sure, it works as that, too, sort of.

I always thought the higher pitched "pinched" Plant vox he references were often just Plant literally pitched higher, in the studio

I'm pretty sure this is true on "Song Remains the Same". (I think his voice was also slowed down on "No Quarter".) I think I read it here?: http://www.amazon.com/Light-Shade-Conversations-Jimmy-Page/dp/030798575X .

They do it a bunch around this period, like in "The Crunge," too.

it works as that, too, sort of.

the time-change/temp shift in the middle totally reminds me of Alabama or Southern Man, and the lead guitar line sounds very Neil-esque to me. Also the lyrical imagery is v Neil.

does anyone else feel like when british people sing about jesus they only know about him from listening to american records

this is actually a very interesting thing to me because it's kinda otm and has to do with Anglican tradition / style vs. disparate American traditions, particularly how Americans call Jesus Christ "Jesus" by default but referring to Him as "Christ" is what you hear sometimes in e.g. the Anglican service I went to this week

Those kids rock.

Going places.

They likely would've played "Ballad of John & Yoko" on the radio had he gone "Jesus! You know it ain't easy!"

does anyone else feel like when british people sing about jesus they only know about him from listening to american records

this is actually a very interesting thing to me because it's kinda otm and has to do with Anglican tradition / style vs. disparate American traditions, particularly how Americans call Jesus Christ "Jesus" by default but referring to Him as "Christ" is what you hear sometimes in e.g. the Anglican service I went to this week

this is b/c british ppl like to have a king but americans have a personal savior i.e. for their souls (unsure whether british ppl have those t.b.h. unless maybe in a cambridge-divines sense).

of course there are the puritans. lotta great music that they made iirc

Blues/Spirituals influence very important.

Glad love was shown for "Boogie With Stu" that was the one track that really stood out last time I listened to this. Has an early T-Rex flavor to it!

yeah j it's that and more stuff too

brb going back to lol college so I can think a lot about the Person of Christ as understood by various Xian communities

this is b/c british ppl like to have a king but americans have a personal savior i.e. for their souls (unsure whether british ppl have those t.b.h. unless maybe in a cambridge-divines sense).

Of course British people have souls! (Except of course for Richard Dawkins.)

yeah but do they suffer because of them

kinda obvious at this point, but pitchfork have backed themselves into a pedantically obscure niche with that ratings system. all those Zep albums of course deserve a perfect 10 (even if we're all basically tired of them)

xpost I read that as "they suffer because of him"

Conversely one could argue that since the albums are near universally popular and beloved, and practically perfect in every way, there's no reason to review them at all.

in the olden days, that would've had a lot of hand-wringing about 'yes WE'RE reviewing a POPULAR CLASSIC', maybe by now the old impulse still drives review choices even though the hand-wringing is gone

i agree that there is probably no point in reviewing these undisputed classics at all. that said, i don't strictly object to the idea of p4k weighing in, particularly if they feel they have some kinda newfangled take on things. i just think it's very silly to subject these albums to a ratings system that has always been so heedless and knee-jerk. i mean, surely the fact that we're still celebrating these albums 40+ years after the fact exempts them something so (knowingly) trivial and inconsequential (unless of course the score is a no-questions-asked perfect 10).

I insist on hoary classic albums getting reevaluated.

nothing is inviolable

(and I like to love the three albums)

hasn't the entire zep catalog now been remastered like three different times?

actually, I'm particularly interested in how critical reaction changes over time, Led Zeppelin being almost a case in point. I wish music criticism featured more of this, and in fact sent these thoughts along to the rockcritics site a while back. http://rockcritics.com/2013/02/15/car-critics-vs-rock-critics/

Argh, there's so much great stuff on this record, IMO. Very, very hard to choose and I don't know if I even could. My favourite Zeppelin record.

rs's 1975 review reads like it was written by the dean (doing service duty out of his associate professor position in the english department) from a respectable but not prestigious east-cost liberal arts college

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/physical-graffiti-19750327

Like the Who's Roger Daltrey, he is a singer of limited range

!

i watched the earls court performance of 'in my time of dying' last night, and i could kind of see how lots of their contemporaries might have been like, 'ennnnh', especially if they were exposed more to zep in performance. bonham didn't exactly seem to be dominating, page was all over the place, just a mess of noise (in a pretty good way, looser than on record, but still kind of lacking a basic… feel?), and both plant and page's mannerisms (page making swooping hand gestures, plant's hand jive, all their grimacing and squirmy stagey ecstasies) add an unpleasant undertone to their blues borrowings.

on record, i dunno. page seems to recede into the whole sound in many instances, subordinating his own playing to his musical conceptions, which is admirable but a bit boring on the surface - but maybe that too wasn't as evident at the time, when he was identified with the half-hour stage wank solos and such. bonham is a monster and i feel like sometimes i'm listening to drum records that have a bunch of other guys on them, which is amazing. plant i sometimes forget is a person, singing like at least with a persona of personal feelings and mannerisms and stuff, with the whole of my classic rock radio adolescence behind me his voice just seems like this cross between like a natural historical fact—'those, those songs from the radio'—and sort of a myth that's using a person's voice to talk, not exactly even the sort of thing you think to parse as lyrics with meanings and singing with feelings.

jpj, musta been tough to be that guy.

and sort of a myth that's using a person's voice to talk, not exactly even the sort of thing you think to parse as lyrics with meanings and singing with feelings.

ha -- fantastic. That's my take too.

Reading that LZ oral history that came out recently, you can totally see how/why they came to be derided. There were, of course, the fans - knuckleheads across the board, apparently. There was the popularity - biggest rock band in the world becomes the biggest target. There were the indulgences - 30 minute organ/drum/guitar solos, groupies, etc. There was the band's inaccessibility - they didn't give many interviews, and when they did offer access (say, to Cameron Crowe) it was very strategic. Apparently they rarely if ever socialized with other bands, because they were always touring, and when they did venture out, their hermetic/insular tour lifestyles didn't jibe well. And of course to top it off they were singing about Hobbits and vikings and so on. A lot of reasons to hate them, even if you liked them.

sometimes i'm listening to drum records that have a bunch of other guys on them

Page, to his enormous credit, likes to say his production epiphany was that either the drums could be loud, or the guitar could be loud, but not both, and given Bonham he decided to go with the drums. If you watch that making of "Darkness on the Edge of Town" doc from a few years back, it takes Springsteen months to reach the same conclusion.

i had this girl over once (insert dylannnn/luriqua-style sexxx story here) and some rap record came on the ol ipod, i forget what it was, anyway it makes the girl feel all ~~sensual~~, like she feels it in her body, and she even remarks on it, and i was kind of like, er, because i dunno, it was just music to me, but she had been spending all her time listening to indie rock records or whatever so she had this notion of the extreme embodiedness of the rap, enough to make her react to it viscerally. and i suppose that's something that it's hard for me to even appreciate listening to rock records from 40 years ago, like the thing that could make plant become this writhing self-conscious sex face on stage, just from the sounds that he was in the middle of, or making.

Maybe you were the problem?

(j/k -- couldn't resist)

:O

Wonder if some of the original hate was also geared towards them as studio pros rather the great rock n roll story of raw unschooled talent with a dream in their pocket.

omg zepplophone!

Wonder if some of the original hate was also geared towards them as studio pros rather the great rock n roll story of raw unschooled talent with a dream in their pocket.

Maybe, if a significant percentage of the audience knew of Page's rep as a London session dude (which I kinda doubt)...and/but on the other hand, the debut album was recorded in eight hours or something.

i'm all for classic albums being re-evaluated, critiqued, deconstructed, interpreted in the frame of a contemporary context etc. etc.... i just think it's silly to imply, by way of a fragile rating system posturing as an exhaustive standard, that Zoso is less indispensable than some Real Estate album.

I kind of like how Paste handled it:
Remastered Album Score: 9.5
Deluxe Material Score: 4.5

yeah, that's more to the point: probably safer to pitch the focus of the review (& score) to the already-initiated, ie. those who are interested in the specific merits of the re-release. most readers are already going to have an opinion on the albums themselves.

I was hearing all sorts of new stuff from this on the earphones at work today.

I don't know if it's actually new parts brought up to the surface with the remaster, or if they'd always been there on my crummy cassette copy I've had since 1988.

What I like about Physical Graffiti is it all feels part of one piece, even if it was put together from then-recently recorded material mixed with off-cuts from other sessions, and the quality of the material feels quite consistent for a double album. There's a lot of double albums where the artist has taken advantage of the longer playing time to just throw everything on there, whether it works or whether it doesn't, which leads to a sprawling and uneven listen, but Physical Graffiti doesn't feel uneven at all to me. It just feels like a Zeppelin album that happens to be twice as long. I think Houses Of The Holy jumps around stylistically more than Physical Graffiti does, too.

is this on the reissue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo6OkHmhk0U

goddammit, today i bought the reissue and it skips during "trampled"

that's gotta be v. frustrating :(

vinyl or CD?

cd

I would've voted "In My Time of Dying"

The drum workouts sound like a train barreling along.

well, well, well

ok now how in god's good name did Custard Pie get shut out

what the fuck

I wonder what I voted for.

― Rock Hardy, Monday, July 9, 2007 6:00 PM (8 years ago)

I still wonder. Let's poll this one all over again!

yeah, that's more to the point: probably safer to pitch the focus of the review (& score) to the already-initiated, ie. those who are interested in the specific merits of the re-release. most readers are already going to have an opinion on the albums themselves.

― charlie h, Thursday, February 26, 2015 11:00 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Wonder if this is true, re: P4K. As a 90s teen I kinda fell backwards into Zeppelin through the boxed sets and the only solid CW I remember absorbing from friends or magazine lists was that Zoso was the one-album go-to. Aside from Allmusic I doubt I had any really reference points on the rest of their catalog, which is just large enough that keeping straight which one's which or what order they go in does take a minute. Pitchfork's readership presumably has more resources to draw on, but still might actually be gleaning information from the reviews. And as noted even further upthread, it's kinda cool to see things re-appraised, or reviewed by people who love rock music but aren't specifically loyal to the terms or standards by which Zep records have historically been rated, or whatever. Just talking hypothetically.

Eh, I dunno, I just dig seeing how stuff shifts around in its perceived greatness, like how at a certain point Revolver pretty thoroughly displaced Pepper's as the "real heads know THIS is the best album" one, but I don't know if that's still the case? (Probably the wrong thread for it anyway.)

CAN THE PEOPLE HEAR WHAT THE LITTLE FISH ARE SAYIN'?

the first minute or so of 'the rover' makes me want to straight up rove every time i hear it. it's probably my favorite bit of music to rove to

I don't play zep much, and I only give two albums time, this and Houses.

If I try to bring "Trampled" to mind, it sorta morphs into the doobies "Long train running"

Just me?

I think it's supposed to morph into "Superstition" but it's never done that for me.

happy 45th

imo without question the best zep record

prefer HOTH cuz it's shorter but man

Top 4 results in this poll are exactly right in that order

I guess this was the album when they stopped giving their songs titles you could recall them by

Yeah, I had no idea what “Trampled Under Foot” was until I dialed it up on YouTube (“oh yeah, that one...”)

My big two are “Ten Years Gone” & “In the Light.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR5YkFU3e0s

can we discuss Page's work in "Down By the Seaside"? My god.

josefa zeroing in on a major obstacle to my truly loving (as opposed to knowing i basically enjoy) the imperial-phase zeppelin albums. exactly which songs are on which ones has never solidified in my memory at all.

trampled >>>>>>>>>>>>>> kashmir

can we discuss Page's work in "Down By the Seaside"? My god.

I think what I love so much about this record is it is so casually great, everything feels like it is coming so easy to them, none of it feels slaved over or worried to death, just like "yeah let's bang out some songs". Even the odds & sods bits don't feel inconsistent, probably cuz they weren't a band with a lot of fat in general.

Perfect summer record.

No one voted for "Custard Pie"? Nerds.

It is also the perfect mix-tape, it shows them doing a little bit of everything they do best

I enjoy every song on this, but I wouldn't say that spontaneity is its main virtue. There's something a little exhausting about it. It is surprising how alive it feels in comparison with Presence barely a year later.

I agree - I think it's great (last song or two aside), but it's not exactly a breezy listen.

It's 80 minutes long :)

One issue may be that running into the long tracks at the ends of Side 1 & 2 sort of feels like hitting walls. I feel like the sequencing works against the flow somehow (but not sure how I'd redo it).

(mainly I'm just in a hurry to get to Side 3, where my favorite songs are!)

End of side 3 is the perfect spot for my favourite Zeppelin song.

mine too!!

I ranked'em last year, and I got it wrong, as ever.

I’ve been thinking about how live Zeppelin and studio Zeppelin are such distinct entities from one another, with different virtues. And I’ve concluded that I don’t really want “casually great” from studio Zeppelin, which is maybe part of why this record still hasn’t really clicked with me. I don’t want vibes, I don’t want subtlety - I want to be left dumbstruck, like “how was this created by actual human beings?” I get that from IV and HOTH - I don’t get it on PG, except maybe on “Kashmir.”

The biggest problem, I think, is actually the mix - a lot of songs seem to do everything right in terms of writing, arrangement, even performance, but still come out sorta flat and lifeless - attempted epics just scan as really long, and the whole thing just sort of sits there. The recurring flange effect on Bonzo’s drums also doesn’t do him any favors.

It’s annoying because I’m in a Zep phase right now and I want to get out of this record what serious fans seem to get from it, but I just don’t. Any thoughts? And are there any fan remixes/remasters circulating out there somewhere?

Alfred, the title of "In the Light" is pretty memorable, Plant says it about 30 times!

I love PG, but it took me a long while, primarily because the production has a "brittleness" to it that the first 5 albums don't have. It comes off as colder to me than all of their albums except the ones that follow.

To be more specific, I don't find the drum sound and bottom end as satisfying as the earlier records. It is still awesome - Trampled Under Foot has drums for days - but it feels assaultive in a way.

No one voted for "Custard Pie"? Nerds.

― chr1sb3singer, Friday, August 13, 2021 12:31 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

i might've!

I think "Sick Again" sort of defines the album for me. There's a sickly quality to it, from Plant's worn-out voice to some of the guitar & drum effects. Still a classic, of course.

I could live without Boogie, Black Country, and Sick

Weakest track on a minute-by-minute basis: "In My Time of Dying" (the length isn't justified)
Weakest track in itself: "Night Flight"

You Cray cray

"Custard Pie" rules.

My friend's problem with PG - and it may have been mine at one point, too, years ago - is that listening to it on cassette in the car I was always unsure of where I was in the album, and because of that maybe didn't always know all the song titles. Other than that, yeah, as far as song-dumps go this one shows a ridiculous degree of creativity, diversity and sheer kickassery.

But that pretty much goes for every Zep record from III on.

the first minute or so of 'the rover' makes me want to straight up rove every time i hear it. it's probably my favorite bit of music to rove to

I rove most to the guitar solo.

Weakest track on a minute-by-minute basis: "In My Time of Dying" (the length isn't justified)

rong

Roving vs Chooglin

Write-in for Ramblin'

The only very long song that Zeppelin did that manages not to stagger to the finish line is "Carouselambra", probably because it's actually three songs. The last two or three minutes of "Achilles Last Stand" and "In My Time of Dying" are really stretching their listeners' patience.

In the Light is pretty long and remains gripping throughout.

The last two or three minutes of "Achilles Last Stand" and "In My Time of Dying" are really stretching their listeners' patience.

― Halfway there but for you, Saturday, August 14, 2021 7:23 AM (twenty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah if said listeners were made of straw

_Weakest track on a minute-by-minute basis: "In My Time of Dying" (the length isn't justified)_

rong

So I'm the only person getting a little impatient by 7.20, when they start doing the "slow" verse?

No, it pushes me a little too. Wouldn't change a thing about "Achilles's Last Stand", though.

might make it longer, tbh

this is the worst opinion ive ever read on this board
― brimstead

Pfft. I'm absolutely certain I could top that

The last two or three minutes of "Achilles Last Stand" and "In My Time of Dying" are really stretching their listeners' patience.

For me those last two or three minutes of Dying are absolutely thrilling, Page throttling the bottle neck and making it squeal, Plant barking and howling, that rhythm section just bustling. I always felt in that moment you could hear the actual machine that is Led Zeppelin, the behemoth-ness of them, the savagery, the brutalism. Never fails to thrill me.

Okay, i just listened to all 11 minutes of "In my time of dying" and it struck me (though I always sorta knew) that Van Halen 'fixed' a lot of what I did not like about LZ growing up, with a spry leap from the molasses.

I thought I'd grown out of that years ago, but it seems i only appreciate LZ in smaller doses. The viscosoty is too damn high.

Hit Me With That (Ripe Tomato)

I actually like the jamming in last few minutes. I just don't really need it to take that long to get there. If anything, it's probably the slower parts that try me more. I don't think it's terrible or anything, just not my favourite extended piece of theirs.

“Trampled” always sounded flat-footed and decidedly unfunky to me. It would’ve only taken a slight adjustment — JPJ not playing on all four beats, maybe, or Bonham emphasizing The One more — to make it swinging.

it always felt more like a driving rocker with a funk musical vocabulary, to me, than an actual funk-pastiche a la something like "the crunge"

i mean we already have a version of "trampled underfoot" that swings, and it's called "superstition"

Trampled is frantic and suffocating. But I always enjoy the car service shop euphemisms

If not for the clav I doubt "Trampled Underfoot" would be compared to "Superstition" so often. "Trampled" is distinctly march-like in a way that "Superstition" isn't; it's in 2/4 or even 1/4 time rather than Superstition's 4/4. There's a solid thump on every beat; had it been instrumentated differently, it could almost be disco.

If you're looking for ZepFunk, on this same LP you've got "Custard Pie" and "The Wanton Song".

Has JPJ not cited Stevie Wonder and "Superstition" as an influence? Also, come on, all the riffs and phrasing are p clearly in 4/4.

*melodic phrasing

The riffs are, but not the bass line and that's what my ears latch onto.

horrible posts good lord

Damn I thought it was the Wonton song all this time

xp I agree

The anti-trampled posts anyway… Kashmir sucks, btw. Where is Sandy? I know they have my back on this one.

Damn I thought it was the Wonton song all this time

HER: I bet he's thinking about other women.

HIM: I just don't get how Led Zeppelin could make such a banger about Chinese food.

Kashmir is epic, what are you on bro?

permastoned… just don’t get the song

"Down by the Seaside" was robbed btw

I never liked Kashmir. I was just talking with one of my friends the other day about how our friend David (RIP lovely boy) threw my 8-track (!!!!) of Physical Graffiti out of the car window because Kashmir came on right after Trampled Under Foot and Trampled was so great and Kashmir was so plodding and it made us all SO ANGRY, but you couldn't rewind 8-tracks, so out the window it went.

Stairway to Heaven was my senior class song. Ugh. I campaigned heavy for "Won't Get Fooled Again" but I went to school with a bunch of wealthy future Republican kids who did not understand rebellion.

― PEOPLE LIVING IN COMPETITION (Sandy), Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:52 PM (seven years ago) bookmarkflaglink

In it might get loud jimmy explains how the Kashmir riff came about as a part of his danelectro-friendly swan song jamz

Stairway to Heaven was my senior class song. Ugh. I campaigned heavy for "Won't Get Fooled Again" but I went to school with a bunch of wealthy future Republican kids who did not understand rebellion.

― PEOPLE LIVING IN COMPETITION (Sandy)

I would have bet on "Sultans of Swing" to win in that case.

Ha, my high school class recently did a Zoom reunion and some class member’s current band actually made a video of themselves performing “Sultans of Swing” to play on the call.

“Won’t Get Fooled Again” was voted #1 of "top 50 conservative rock songs of all time” by National Review (fwiw)

Stairway to Heaven was my senior class song. Ugh. I campaigned heavy for "Won't Get Fooled Again" but I went to school with a bunch of wealthy future Republican kids who did not understand rebellion.

― PEOPLE LIVING IN COMPETITION (Sandy), Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:52 PM (seven years ago) bookmarkflaglink

Ha, for a second I thought I went to high school with Sandy. Stairway was my senior class song and the song I campaigned for was "The Kids are Alright".

Won’t Get Fooled Again” was voted #1 of "top 50 conservative rock songs of all time” by National Review (fwiw)

― Shallot Shortage 2021 (morrisp),

I searched for this list and afaict it was compiled by a single editor.

James Redd & the Blecchs you're a NYC or area native, right? The 2 kids in my h.s. who most adored "Sultans of Swing" were the obvious future investment bankers in our class.

All three of the 0-scoring songs are great, certainly better than some of the spotty disc 2 tracks like "Black Country Woman"

Would anyone use the earlier session outtakes on this record to replace tracks that made the individual albums?

- "Bron-Yr-Aur" in place of "Hats Off to (Roy) Harper"
- "Boogie with Stu" in place of "Rock and Roll"
- "Down by the Seaside" in place of "Going to California"
- "Houses of the Holy" in place of "The Crunge"
- "The Rover" in place of "Dancing Days" (they're both great)
- "Black Country Woman" in place of "D'yer Mak'er"

Then, if I had to create a single LP from the actual 1974 sessions:

Side 1
Custard Pie
Trampled Underfoot
Kashmir

Side 2
In the Light
The Wanton Song
Ten Years Gone
Sick Again

Love Hats Off To Harper and D'yer Mak'er!

I hate the former but do enjoy the latter. I really like all the songs on Houses of the Holy, plus the outtakes!
Of course, this is all abstract speculation, because Page overdubbed/remixed all the older songs in 1974, so the way they sound on Physical Graffiti is probably not the way they would have sounded if they had been released between 1970 and 1973.

“

Page overdubbed/remixed all the older songs in 1974, so the way they sound on Physical Graffiti is probably not the way they would have sounded if they had been released between 1970 and 1973.

I've always wondered about the sudden turns "Down by the Seaside" takes, from chill sort of country goof to, out of nowhere, massive epic, to, just as suddenly, back to chill country-ish.

Like a funky lunch on a bucolic day

ncxkd, it's based on the information from the liner notes indicating the studios/engineers used for each song; although on closer inspection, it looks like, of the older songs, only "The Rover" was both overdubbed and mixed in 1974. The other six older songs were overdubbed at the time of the original recordings, then mixed with the rest of the PG material at Olympic Studios by Keith Harwood.
That is enough to make me feel that they don't quite fit, sonically, on the earlier records.

I’m going to guess there’s a section of Zep fans that were introduced to “Kashmir” via the Godzilla soundtrack and maybe that’s part of why the song doesn’t land as it does for others.

ncxkd, it's based on the information from the liner notes indicating the studios/engineers used for each song; although on closer inspection, it looks like, of the older songs, only "The Rover" was both overdubbed and mixed in 1974. The other six older songs were overdubbed at the time of the original recordings, then mixed with the rest of the PG material at Olympic Studios by Keith Harwood.
That is enough to make me feel that they don't quite fit, sonically, on the earlier records.

I’m going to guess there’s a section of Zep fans that were introduced to “Kashmir” via the Godzilla soundtrack and maybe that’s part of why the song doesn’t land as it does for others.

I've always wondered about the sudden turns "Down by the Seaside" takes, from chill sort of country goof to, out of nowhere, massive epic, to, just as suddenly, back to chill country-ish.

Also the way Page's guitar behind Plant singing "Dp you still do the twist DO you find you remember things that well" does this weird, low-key revving thing that opens Black Dog.

That's kind of the part I'm thinking of. It starts off with this suddenly funky jam that goes on for a few measures, then it hits that line and suddenly goes minor key, with this big anthemic shift that lasts ... like 10 seconds. You think it's going to keep going in that mode, but then it just suddenly downshifts into dreamy mode again.

I would have voted for the winner, but The Rover is a monster.

I just realized that custard pie employs the Bo Diddley beat

I had always thought that there were some measures in that song where they skipped beats, in fact it's all in 4/4 but they syncopate to the offbeats.

I need to hear houses of the holy on LP at top volume so
Anyone offhand know what pressings to lol for
Or avoid?

"In the Light".

This is the most difficult LZ album to choose one best song from. However, even though it's stuffed with goodies, it still seems too long to me... and somewhat indigestible tbh.

I would def change my vote to In My Time of Dying - one of Bonham's best performances.

“Houses” received no votes? What the actual f

Indeed, I almost picked that!

"kashmir" is absolute peak zeppelin but good job ILM recognizing "ten years gone" this hard

However, even though it's stuffed with goodies, it still seems too long to me... and somewhat indigestible tbh.

OTM

Weakest track in itself: "Night Flight"

No! No! NO!

_However, even though it's stuffed with goodies, it still seems too long to me... and somewhat indigestible tbh._

OTM

It's not really about cutting tracks (though I could definitely live without Boogie With Stu and Black Country Woman), it's just that there's too much of it. There's other tracks I don't like but I suppose they've earned their place.

^If you're cutting those two, may ask well lop off "Sick Again" as well...

I agree though that's it more about the "pacing"... it kind of keeps lurching forward then losing momentum. Obviously Side 3 dominates, tho

What Ilove most about 'Physical Graffiti' is that at least 1/3 of the tracks have not just been my favorite song on the record, but my fave Zepp song at one time or another

i'd cut 'down by the seaside' and that's all

though even it has some moments

Ah I like « seaside » and « black country » a lot ! But I guess as with most double (triple) classic albums no one agrees on what should be cut to make them better…

i agree with Tom D. it's just too much for me to ever want to take in one sitting

"Houses of the Holy" is for sure my pick

idk. there's also just something about the energy of this record that i am not at all drawn to.

is there a poll for Sides 1&2 v Sides 3&4 of PV? I'd be interested in that b/c the first half has peak classic radio exhaustion at this point.

at the risk of getting all calstars*, it kinda seems like you guys simply cannot handle the zepness

tbf i long thought RP was singing 'oh my Tebow' on IMTOD, because same thing right

That's fair enough, I like Led Zeppelin but I'm not a massive fan.

i'd cut 'down by the seaside' and that's all

It's a nice song but it doesn't need to be five minutes long - and it wouldn't have been if Neil Young had written it for Buffalo Springfield.

What Ilove most about 'Physical Graffiti' is that at least 1/3 of the tracks have not just been my favorite song on the record, but my fave Zepp song at one time or another

Agreed.

It's my favourite Zep album, in the sense it contains my favourite songs, but it isn't a record I often listen to in one go. I sort of think of it as two separate albums, if that makes sense. Disk one and two have fairly discrete vibes.

Down By The Seaside is very long, but again I think that's because it's this weird mutant that's really two songs welded into one - that "You still do the twist till you find you remember things that well" bit is a totally different song to Plant's Neil pastiche. And I love that weird fusion of two discordant elements!

Full disclosure though, there's very few double LPs I'd ever edit down. The fact is that the 45-minute format is perfect, every double feels overlong and unwieldy, and you just need to make peace with that and consume it in the way that feels right. White Album, Exile, this, even Zen Arcade, they're overlong and hard to swallow in one go, and I think that's sort of the point. They're their own belligerent things, not made to go down easy.

i kind of love Night Flight’s goofy energy. feels a little bit like they’re doing an impression of The Who.

Sort of the Faces too?

I've never looked at what was an outtake from a previous album and what was newly recorded - it's interesting:

1. Would you bump any tracks from the previous albums with a PG track recorded with those sessions? I hate Rock and Roll off IV, so I would add either Boogie with Stu or Down by the Seaside in a second. The Rover would have to bump something on HoTH, but that album is nearly perfect, so I don't know what.

2. What would PG be like if it was a single with only tracks from PG sessions? Pretty amazing (IMTOD might have to shave a minute or drop one of Wanton Song/Sick Again):

Custard Pie 4:13
Ten Years Gone 6:31
Trampled Under Foot 5:35
Kashmir 8:37

In the Light 8:44
The Wanton Song 4:06
Sick Again 4:43
In My Time of Dying 11:04

Which is probably how they got to a double. The PG tracks wouldn't fit on a single, so they thought, we don't want to cut anything + have all these outtakes laying a around = let's do a double.

That's exactly what happened.

I hate Rock and Roll

Ah yes, the "Love Will Tear Us Apart" answer to Joan Jett.

I like it.

I do agree that the album is kind of overlong and jumbled. It's one of the only ones where the track order isn't really burned into my brain - I tend to skip around on it for the tracks I like.

disc 2 feels like falling in a gully but in a good way

1. Would you bump any tracks from the previous albums with a PG track recorded with those sessions? I hate Rock and Roll off IV, so I would add either Boogie with Stu or Down by the Seaside in a second. The Rover would have to bump something on HoTH, but that album is nearly perfect, so I don't know what.

I honestly think if you replaced The Crunge and D'Yer Maker with The Rover and the title track, Houses would be my favourite Zep record (would need to maybe move some songs around).

the rover yes, but keep dyer maker and put in the title track for “dancing days” because they sound kinda similar

“drop one of Wanton Song”

get thee behind me Satan

sometimes Wanton Song sounds to me like the meanest, lithest, most directly Zeppelin song in the history of Zeppelin

In the Light is the best zep song, i like all their albums and wouldn't call PG perfect but it is still my favorite
i do find it fascinating how some acts can have 1000 interesting outtakes (dylan, beach boys, monkees, neil young) and a behemoth like LZ has barely any truly good leftovers - 60s vs 70s maybe (but neil contradicts that).

Wonton Song rules

In the Light is the best zep song, i like all their albums and wouldn't call PG perfect but it is still my favorite
i do find it fascinating how some acts can have 1000 interesting outtakes (dylan, beach boys, monkees, neil young) and a behemoth like LZ has barely any truly good leftovers - 60s vs 70s maybe (but neil contradicts that).

^^Pretty much. JPJ has said that the lack of Zep outtakes was down he and Page still having a session player mentality pushing them to get the most out of recording sessions and waste as little time as possible on dead ends.

just listened to this whole thing and man the sequencing is pretty messed up/weird, "Sick Again" is not a good note to end on, shoulda gone with "Into The Light"

The first disc is a masterpiece, a totally cohesive statement; the second disc is a mess.

I love In the Light as the first track on side 2. Beautiful landing spot after the hammer of Trampled/Kashmir.

xpost A mess as far as cohesion goes, in an "Exile on Main Street" sort of way, but most of the stuff still rules. At least half of those tracks are up there with the best of Zep.

Wait, I guess that’s track 1 side 3.

Xp

Never got used to the weird sequencing of the second disc because there's three songs I always skip

Weakest track in itself: "Night Flight"

No! No! NO!

It's one of the few recordings where they should have restarted the arrangement from scratch, Plant is forcing it and everyone else is half-hearted.

good job ILM recognizing "ten years gone"

The only quibble I can imagine to choosing this as my favourite Zeppelin song is that it isn't a particularly good showcase for Jones and Bonham; however, it took me 38 years of listening to manifest that potential objection, so I guess it doesn't bother me. And even touches like the bass countermelody to the verse riff, or the drum rolls in the guitar solo, show how much they bring to a song just by playing on it.

Today I learned the stones waiting on a friend video was shot at the same location as the PG album cover

People ragging on Night Flight, wow.
Been lurking here for over two decades and I can still be surprised.

happy 50th

'the rover' ftw

Got this for 50 cents as a kid in high school, with all the sleeve inserts and everything
I like all these songs but 'Custard Pie' is a helluva an opener, with the clavinet and everything

Probs my favourite Zeppelin album. Still have my dad's ex-gf's OG copy, which I stole off her as a teenager, though it's fairly beaten up now.

The various die-cut LPs from the 70's that I bought back then have not help up well, Graffiti, Some Girls, From The Inside, etc.

Trampled has such a weird structure. Just seems to go on forever. I counted 6 lines in the verse “factory air conditioned” etc, then the keyboard solo, then 3 more lines “I’m so glad I took a look inside your show room doors” until the outro jam.

I'm guessing like many of y'all, seeing this thread revived makes me dive back into the record.

Have any of you noticed this unique feature about PG: Is this the most "classic" of classic rock albums where such a low % of the songs have a traditional chorus?
It's easy to miss, because the tracks with a chorus like "The Rover", "Trampled Under Foot", "Down By The Seaside", or "Night Flight" (and even those choruses are not as 'trad' in comparison to something like "Communication Breakdown", "Ramble On", or "Over The Hills and Far Away") are matched by those with an instrumental break substituting for one ("Houses of the Holy", "In The Light", "Ten Years Gone", "The Wanton Song"), or no chorus at all ("Custard Pie", "Boogie With Stu", "Black Country Woman")

(in response to calstars' structure observation)

Some of the songs have the vocal part of the chorus withheld until the coda, which is effective because it would be too much if Plant were singing "ten years gone, holdin' on", "sure like a piece of your custard pie", or "light, light, light, in the light" throughout the respective songs. They're memorable, though, as vocal tags to see the songs out.

That’s a great observation

I thought it was “tellin’ the people you’re custard pie”

Robert would never tell the people that

Lyrics sites say "I chew on a piece of your custard pie" which I find gross compared to my interpretation

“chewin’ a piece” maybe

"Kashmir" is the most played song from this album, and yeah, it's another one with just an instrumental break for a chorus.

Down by Your Kashmir

*Yr

We are the Custard Pie Appreciation Consortium

If I was in CVS or had a radio station playing in the background while I was driving, I would most want to hear "Houses of the Holy" - this album's "D'yer Mak'er".

But more rocking

nah, this album's "D'yer Mak'er" is "Boogie With Stu".

I'd probably agree, and I'd call "Houses of the Holy" this album's "Dancing Days". Though an eight-song Physical Graffiti that included "Boogie with Stu" would be starting with a bad handicap.