Anticipate the forthcoming new Wu-Tang album "8 Diagrams".

You just linked to Wu-Tang Clan news on the NME site.

Er, yeah?

Wu needs to sound new and flashy.

NO

Did you miss the "not" there?

it's not like the

xpost

oops yeah. OLD
N DRRTY

Without ODB, this isn't really a Wu-Tang group album.

But then I'm just a herb who thinks that Iron Flag and the W make a better double album than Forever.

you know ODB isn't on Iron Flag, right?

yeah i was gonna say...he's not even on the w that much.

...uh, I was just TESTING YOU!

nile rodgers!

Don Was!

TEE BONE BURNETTE

Ghostface, Raekwon, Cappadonna and Masta Killa had better be on EVERY FUCKING TRACK.

Has Cappadonna returned to the Wu?

I believe he's touring with them.

He isn't mad at them anymore, if that's what you're asking. He is supposed to be on the new album.

Ghostface, Raekwon, Cappadonna and Masta Killa had better be on EVERY FUCKING TRACK.

-- brightscreamer, Thursday, June 28, 2007 5:21 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

OTMx100

u god and deck ain't chopped liver!

why u hate method man

i'm dumb! method man is great! so is rza!

So the only one who shouldn't be on every track is GZA?

no, GZA should definitely be on every track

cilvaringz is dope

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003609463

Okay, according to this article it should come out in October, and RZA is working with an unreleased ODB outtake that might be a bonus track. Somehow I still doubt that release date.

Here's a link for the EPK. Pretty long, but nothing of substance.

http://www.bodog.tv/media/wu-tang-epk

Where the fuck is the single?

they played a track from 8 Diagrams as they left the stage after their Rock the Bells set on Saturday. if the rest of the album is as good as this, we are in good shape. hard to closely hear it over 70,000 people, but what i heard sounded completely fucked up and spooky.

Now I'm even more excited to see them.

This Album is Gonna be Great, I can just feeeel it

i dunno about them doing the multi producer thing unless rza is mixing and arranging it like he did with supreme clientele.. but well see.

Some of the drums on Supreme Clientele sound awful! Especially on the first track after the intro.

Can't wait. And what's this in the Wikipedia article about a Wu-Tang documentary?

Shut the fuck up, Tuomas. Just shut the fuck up.

Richard: They're probably referring to the doc GZA has been filming for the past few years.

Looking forward to a little System of a Down on this...

And a Marley Marl production too!

No, but seriously, hate to be a Wu die-hard, but why not straight RZA/Mathematics/4th Disciple/Cilvaringz production?

Otherwise you end up with a production mess like Fishscale...

Is System Of A Down on it? Their cover of "Shame On A N***a" was surprisingly decent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPtjC_phLI4

Haha what the fuck is the video footage? And Rza!

paulhw...that's only 'cause RZA wasn't overseeing it. Supreme Clientele had different producers on it, and it has a very consistent sound. All of the Wu group albums do, IMO.

what do we think of that leaked track?

'we' haven't heard it yet.

inklay?

Ess Eye Why-ay?

'watch your mouth'

"we're like george foreman out in the streets - we grillin' em"

LOVE IT!

i just realized this has everyone on it

awesome

'get it in like tim off the glass'

some love for the duncan

I love this track, but I wish the beat would change up a bit more. I'm also a bit sad to see Cappadonna was left off. Regardless, good first single. I hope they make this album with <30% hooks. Iron Flag had far too many hooks for a Wu album. The best Wu songs never have a fucking chorus.

I just heard 8 snippets off the rekkid.

A lot of em were Doom-style lo-fi. A lot of em sounded like The W. All in all what I heard was pretty good but nothing to write home (or on a message board) about.

I heard those same 8 snippets and I thought they were glimpses of the best Wu group material since 36. I didn't hear one track that plodded the way that "One Blood" or anything nearly as pathetic as "Conditioner." Then again, let's wait til the whole thing drops and then start making decisions.

aw Conditioner is funny

There isn't one line on "Conditioner" that comes close to being as funny as anything on "N***a Please" or even the inanity of Paid Da Co$t To Be Tha Bo$$, which this song probably wouldn't have been so out of place on.

Where are we hearing these 8 snippets ? I'm getting rabid, throw me a bone here !

Erock Zombie OTM

Well ? How bout' them snippets, horders !

ysi?

ys............i?

ysi?

ysi?

ysi?

After becoming the first group to ever clear a Beatles sample, Wu-Tang unleash their first official single off of 8 Diagrams:

http://www.loud.com/downloads/theheartgentlyweeps.mp3

It's good; Rae is nice, Ghost has his hilarious violence in Pathmark supermarket story, and Meth does it (as usual) through his voice alone. The beat could feel dustier, scratchier, a little less clean, but it's fine.

After becoming the first group to ever clear a Beatles sample

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1571114/20071003/wu_tang_clan.jhtml

Well ? How bout' them snippets, horders !

I said I heard them, I didn't say I had them on my hard drive.

They're on the ipod IN MY BRAIN

:D

close enough

They're on the ipod IN MY BRAIN

ysi?

I was gonna say, there's clearly no samples on that song... its okay, didn't blow me away or anything.

the promo mix (aside from having an annoying 'id bug' on it) is very, very quiet compared to the rest of my itunes.

didja hear this is a Loud Records exclusive? didja, huh?

Meth does it (as usual) through his voice alone

as opposed to other rappers that, uh, do it with sign language?

i liked the beatles joint more when it was ghost fuckin around on a mixtape instead of big kanye-style EVENT RAP sampling but at least they kept 'yall niggas kiiill me / you know you booooty' & meth is nice on it

so is that track basically the "Beatles" mixtape track I heard so much about but could never find...?

on the o.g. track ghost is more in i-cant-go-to-sleep mode all distressed on the track and shit

Yeah, "Beatles" is better, but I find it funny that you call this "big kanye-style EVENT RAP" as if "Triumph" doesn't exist or anything.

Mo: I'm pretty sure it's available for free download on their website. It may be called "My Guitar".

i meant big kanye style event rap in that both of em stayed getting endless press release publicist mtv news segment hype over sampling some whiteboy music instead of just for, you know, making rap records

Ghost's My Guitar (which - yeah, Shakey, it's been on Wu-Tang Corp for years) is so almost great that I'm afraid to hear a reworking, but once he starts busting out the "ALL Y'ALL FAGGOT FAGGOTS IS FAGGOTS" I have to skip to the next song, so: curious.

stunt samples!

"ALL Y'ALL FAGGOT FAGGOTS IS FAGGOTS"

yoga flame

some prominent Kanye samples:

Creative Source - I’d Find you Anywhere
Norman Connors feat. Ada Dyer - Invitation
Ray Charles - I Got A Woman
Honeycone - Innocent Til Proven Guilty
Mandrill - Movement IV (Peace & Love)
Bloodstone - I’m Just Doin’ My Job
Shirley Bassey - Diamonds Are Forever
Lenny Williams - Cause I Love You
Chaka Khan - Through The Fire
Lauryn Hill - Mystery Of Iniquity
Hank Crawford - Wildflower
The Originals - Sunrise
Graham Nash - Chicago
The Jackson Five - I Want You Back
The Main Ingredient - Let Me Prove My Love To You

mostly "whiteboy music" for sure unless his having sampled Feist earns him some Scarlet Letter of Whiteness from white dudes or something

i meant the daft punk, dummy

sampple funk or soul or any black artist and its just biz as usual, sample white people and its an EVENT!!!! cf late 90s puffy you hate on so much

yeah I hear you on that actually

I digress...here is the real version of "The Heart Gently Weeps." I'm liking this version much more.

http://www.zshare.net/audio/42573406d9cbee/

Also, trouble in Wu-World? Scroll down...

http://www.mtv.com/bands/m/mixtape_monday/101507/

wow man that new version is terrible... sounds like re-recorded bullshit

its like a when a shitty tv show wants to do a mission impossible type scene but dont have the $$$ to license the music so they got their soundtrack guy to make up a fake mission impossible sounding joint

What are you digressing from?

Yeah, this is garbage, fellas.

Depressing.

I was digressing from and what's sample-talk.

I think this one is mixed better, especially the vocals. Also, it isn't a clone of the one Ghostface rapped over. The drums are better, too, and the arrangement isn't as boring...it fits the song better, I think. Do you dislike the song, or just the newer version?

Also, it isn't a clone of the one Ghostface rapped over.

thats the problem

I don't like the actual song that much (what's up with the fucking Gary Moore electric guitar?), but I agree that the new version at least sounds better.

I'm a sound-qual douche, so I wasn't real happy with the fuzzy beatjack sound of the original Ghost song, but I'm not real big on this redo even if it does sound better.

Hey you mothaskunks,

There's a new Wu song floating around again. This one's the best one yet but I'm still finding some flaws with it. I don't know, its pretty sick though. Ghostface spits an ill verse and U-God really surprised me and he MURDERS it with the final verse.

I think its a "rough mix" so I might like it a lot more when I hear a clearer version with the levels all correct...

This is the one supposedly co-produced by Easy Mo Bee...

"Take It Back" (I think it's a rough mix):

http://www.zshare.net/audio/43836127bd7454/

Fuzzy beatjacks are at least 20% of what's great about Ghostface.

ok i'm still not convinced about the other ones but this is good

RZA pushed this back another week due to the Ghostface flap.

http://www.zshare.net/audio/43836127bd7454/

Either this is a better link or I'm appreciating this song like ten times more now...

Damn, this shit is off the chain...

The beat sounds a lot better to me all of a sudden...

Yeah "Take It Back" is the only good song so far... beat is hard...

according to a blog on the hip hop site "oh word":

"3.The final version of “The Heart Gently Weeps” fixes all of the problems that the original leak had and makes you wonder why Loud would send out a crappy demo-version that dampened everyone’s expectations. The only thing that could improve the track now is a final Rza/Gza or Deck verse. Great Beatles cover guys, but it’s still a rap song."

Which is good news to me.

i went to the listening party -- it seems like they're leaking tracks in reverse order of coolness. two much stronger songs are "They Want to Stick Me 4 My Riches" and the ODB tribute "Life Changes" both of which were on that Loud-sanctioned mixtape. i have them up on my site, but have encountered problems posting those links here. if you would like to hear these songs, email me.

so i heard theres a new single featuring john fruciante and erykah badu?!

That would be "The Heart Gently Weeps," chaki.

Go to Loud.com to download the 8 Diagrams mixtape for free people. The newer songs are yoga flame.

This album is gonna be wicked. That mixtape is sooo good

http://www.missinfo.tv/?p=391

uh oh

I'm with Raekwon on this...

The new tracks have all been dissapointing, even the good stuff is not that good.

Seems like the majority of the Wu are not feeling the album and RZA wants to go ahead with it anyway?

On all the Hip Hop messageboards from what I can tell everyone is saying that Rae is mad and he's a hater and they're defending RZA, but in my opinion RZA should not drop this album.

Did you see the part where Rae says they might drop a "Shaolin vs. Wu Tang" album without RZA to counteract the 8 Diagrams?

Honestly, I get the impression that RZA should step up to the plate and scrap this album...

Why do I trust RZA's opinion more than (almost) any other member of the clan?

I'm with Raekwon. With all the information that's been released I don't know how you couldn't be. If the new tracks were remotely as good as 90's Wu it would be an entirely different story, but I can easily see how Rza's trying to do too much. If they're leaving the studio unsatisfied, it shouldn't be released. At least we'll have another album to look forward to, but Wu never sounds as good over someone else's beats. Rza needs to get his shit together.

I dunno I would love to hear the Marley track

does Mathematics count as Wu-Tang...? "Rules" slays

# bize Says:
November 8th, 2007 at 5:41 pm

C.R.E.A.M.

o.t.m.

I don't care if this isn't a masterpiece or whatever, if it's done they should put it out. Let the people be the judge.

RIP another great Ghostface album cover.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/Bigdoerehabcover.jpg

WAU

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/5/11/8/f_wowm_e6f3e99.png

the reason I'm not with Raekwon has a lot to do with the 9000 shitty mixtape tracks i've had to endure in the last few years. Rae is a bitter bastard.

The crown is balanced rather precariously.

We really needed the Clipse album cover one mo' gain.

wasn't gonna say it

Weak Spot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8oVOvX7wHY

New, better version of While My Heart Gently Weeps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBfj3ipkgnw

These both actually sound really good.

Yeah, I'm sorry, I don't agree that "all of the tracks so far have been weak". I actually think the exact opposite.

"Weak Spot", "Stick Me for my Riches", "Take it Back", "Life Changes", "Thug World" and even "The Heart Gently Weeps" have all been really good, in my opinion.

I also liked "Watch Your Mouth", but not as much as the others. Since it's not going to be on the album though, I'm not too worried about it.

And if Rae want's the fans to hear a solid Wu street album, then FUCKING PUT OUT CUBAN LINX 2 ALREADY !

Anyway, from the 6 songs I've heard, this will be the best Wu LP since "Forever".

I dunno, the stuff I've heard hasn't made a big impression. In my opinion The W is better than Forever, almost as good as 36 Chambers, because they were trying to do something a bit different from there, expand upon their trademark style. Whereas the new tunes sound like autopilot Wu, maybe they satisfy the hardcore fans, but I don't hear anything that interesting there. I'm not sure it's worth the 6 year wait, if the new album is just same ol' same ol'.

True, but on the other hand Raekwon and Ghost are bitching that the new album isn't "punch you in the face music", which is what they USED to do in the 90's, whereas the RZA has come out and said he's trying to make something different, so either way they're working at crossed purposes.

OTM about The W.

I'm seeing Ghostface and Rakim Friday...

Craziness...

I saw them a week or two ago. I think it was a good show. I was kinda buzzed and distracted with this cute girl for most of the show, so I don't remember much. Brother Ali opened, he was pretty good. Ghost seemed to do pretty much his standard show. Rakim has about the greatest stage presence I've ever seen. The backing band was pretty good, they were playing all this cool latin stuff between sets.

more new songs: http://hiphopisread.blogspot.com/2007/11/wu-tang-exclusives-again-back-to-back.html

all 3 sound great to me, especially the first & last. rae has no idea what he's talking about.

I heard that Rakim was a total no-show for the Baltimore stop the other night, I guess he's been showing up to the other dates consistently, though?

Here's a link to all 10 released tracks so far (including "Watch Your Mouth") in their best versions we've gotten yet, including the excerpt from "campfire".

I labelled them in the track numbers that the released tracklist implied.

Enjoy -

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3IXAO67Y

I heard that Rakim was a total no-show for the Baltimore stop the other night, I guess he's been showing up to the other dates consistently, though?

-- Alex in Baltimore, Monday, November 19, 2007 3:10 PM (Monday, November 19, 2007 3:10 PM) Bookmark Link

He was in Seattle, that's all I can say.

sweet - thx Erock!!

Dear god, this is garbage, and it has NOTHING to do with RZA (although the beats are boring). Unimaginative choruses, cheesy ass lyrics (GZA on "Life Changes" makes "They Reminisce Over You" sound like Ezra Pound), all of 'em just phoning it in. The worst WU album. Reminds me of Motley Crue's New Tattoo.

And before you beef, I LOVED Iron Flag.

does anyone else think that the loud.com version of 'the heart gently weeps' is 100x better than the "official album" version?

I am stunned at how weak this stuff is. Stuff is super-sluggish, they sound like they aren't even trying (Sly Stone and Good the Bad and the Ugly samples? wtf!) Shitty arrangements, lazy rapping, no hooks... sad.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61jxiPqpFTL._SS500_.jpg

It all sounds fine to me, except for the shitty choruses. They should remove them all so each song can have at least 6 members in it. Fuck. The new Ghostface had better be heat.

Jesus, I can't believe how deaf you guys are.

With all but 3 tracks leaked, this is easily their best since Forever.

Just my opinion, but a LOT of people are digging the hell out of this

a lot of people dig the hell out of a lot of shit.

With all but 3 tracks leaked, this is easily their best since Forever.

What if I like the interceding albums better?

Then you're missing out

And yeah, alot of people DO like a lot of shit, but I'm just saying that the feelings of ILM aren't reflecting the feelings of others

Not that it means anything

Missing out on what?

Forever, which you obv haven't heard.

I have heard Forever, how else could I compare their other albums to it?

I have a feeling I'm being dense right now.

i was joking.

It's definitely their best group effort since The W, but that doesn't really say much. I really hate the choruses. Why does every song have to have a break in between the verses now? Even Life Changes...sweet song, but that chorus gets old fast. I can't even listen to the song any more because the melody never changes, and RZA put the chorus after every verse. What happened to the beat changes and the 18 back-to-back verses? Granted, this does seem to be their most artistically inspired album since Forever, but I want less choruses, more rhymes. A single-disc Wu album has no room for choruses.

I really dig that "Starter" chorus though

I shouldn't post to ILM after eating so much turkey.

US Tracklisting:

1. Campfire
2. Take It Back
3. Get Them Out Ya Way Pa
4. Rushing Elephants
5. Unpredictable
6. The Heart Gently Weeps
7. Wolves
8. Gun Will Go
9. Sunlight
10. Stick Me For My Riches
11. Starter
12. Windmill
13. Weak Spot
14. Life Changes
15. Tar Pit (Europe Bonus Track)
16. 16th Chamber (ODB Special) (Europe Bonus Track)

Take it Back, Rushing Elephants, Wolves, Stick Me for my Riches, Starter, Windmill, Weak Spot - all classics

"Rushing Elephants" = best song title

What's the deal with "Europe Bonus Tracks"? Iron Flag had one too, and the De La Soul's The Grind... Are these tracks released somewhere else in the US?

they're acapellas laid over ibiza trance beats. they don't play well over here

Some artists add bonus tracks to european releases so that europeans won't just import the US version for cheaper, or if the release date is later in europe than in the states

Apparently this leaked. I can't find it anywhere, though.

O.k. I found it, listened to it and am now utterly confused.

http://www.mininova.org/tor/1010074

Enjoy

I miss the disco beat from the leak of "Wolves"

I totally agree, but it's still a good track

I'm guessing that was one of Rae / Ghost's change requests

I doubt it. I don't think Rae and Ghost made any changes to the album.

Well, they were bitching about some of the beats, and RZA said that some of them might be changed before the album came out. "Wolves" was one of them, and since what was changed was a disco violin sample (which Rae would probably find "Corny") I can only assume that was one of the changes.

I like "Gun Will Go" but on the whole the album is pretty awful.

I just hope this isn't the last Wu Tang album.

Hopefully it'll grow on you, there's some really wicked shit on there

i wouldnt write this one off so fast; the whole record feels very consciously "crafted" and pretty progressive/unconventional from a production standpoint. it doesn't sound like any other Wu record, which I think is kinda the point. I'm not sure if I love it or hate it, but I definitely feel like it's going to take about 7 - 8 listens to fully grapple with it. that, to me, is significant.

Interesting. I find the album to be quite the opposite. It all sounds so rushed to me...certain edits, vocal levels, all choruses, shit...even a lot of the verses. The recording is horrible, too. Not even in a gritty, lo-fi kind of way. The songs had massive potential, too.

im hella feelin this

So as you might know, this has leaked, and I'm also feeling this big time. I'm a die-hard fan, but this is...different. The beats are the key: they sound intimate and cinematic at once. Several tracks have that Sergio Leone vibe. It's clean sounding, but also definitely kind of mysterious. Several also have that pained violin sound that, for me, defined Forever.

On my second listen, outstanding tracks are Campfire, Rushing Elephants, Wolves, Guns Will Go, Windmill.

For me, it reminds me most of Ghost Dog, and that's terrific.

Rhymes-wise, there's also a lot of U-God, RZA, Masta Killa and Method Man on this. Not so much Ghost. Call me reactionary, but it's kind of nice.

Initial feeling is that it's better than Iron Flag (not that hard) and the W too.

Definitely better than Iron Flag. Not sure if it beats The W, though. That is one underrated album, my friends.

It beats the W in my book. Maybe there are stronger tracks on the W, I don't know, but there is a lot more color and variety to 8 diagrams. I welcome all of the sung melodies, and the production is very spacious on some tracks. I can't help but think of Rae's dissatisfaction w/RZA's work while listening to his verses, after seeing those interviews. Though I enjoy his calm, measured tones. There are maybe too many Mef verses/

this is fucking sweet.

"Gun Will Go" is crazy good.

Glad to see you guys get it

Gun Will Go has such a weak ass hook. Listen to what's being said, people. That is not wu-caliber.

there are a whole lot of different things being said; i don't think this is anywhere near being universally hated-on. if anything, the response has been completely polarized.

Why I hate the album:

Method Man is for the most part dominating the album and being very wack.

Ghost is mostly absent.

Verses are lacking energy, sound forced.

Chrouses are hella corny and come up too often.

Kung fu shit sounds mad cliche and too much like RZA copying himself.

But mostly,

Intrumentals don't sound like something that should be rapped over and very often just sound plain off or bad.

This is to me the only Wu Tang album that is just plain bad (and the only time I have heard a RZA beat and thought "that is wack").

All of the others are great albums some better than others, this one is not even good to me.

I mean, I could be overreacting because of how dissapointed I am but this is how I feel right now...

sorry about those spelling errors i don't know what's up with that

u said 'mad cliche'. your universe is a blackhole

in fact your whole post is a cliche because everyone knows rza doesnt know how to sell out and never shows and proves his talent just lets it fail

if u guys want the dope check out what raekwon is up to

Hi-Tek ft Ghostface, Raekwon, and Dion "My Piano"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NdrzSgORnG8

http://www.youtube.com/v/J4Ofxg0L8Kk&rel=1

off the muggs and gza

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bPWkLBSl2Qc <--- the new Icewater out raekwon's crew called "animal". real cool

When did I say anything about selling out?

idk i'm drunyarded & n eternal fool what do i know

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4525/rza8diagkq4ec6.jpg

HEH DEEJ FTW

this is kind of trash, i like rae on 'take it back' tho

if u guys want the dope check out what raekwon is up to

-- daanyel, Tuesday, November 27, 2007 11:55 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

rae has the best verses on this record
beats are :-/ tho

only one time through so far, but windmill and weak spot are pleasing me, cliché or not. and I like rae a lot more on this one than maybe any of 'em...

uh wu era nyc win ---> src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hpVVuAaPq5c&rel=1

Stream the whole new Ghost album here:

http://music.defjam.com/www2/av_player/AVPlayer.php?av_product_id=2577&av_asset_id=12340&av_link_group_id=52&av_type_id=1&cms_site_id=1

agree

failjam'd

ghost doesnt really know how to sell out but he does anyways via stonesthrow

Yeah, "Iron Flag" is definitely a "Great" album.

Your credibility ended there

That shit is solid...

The least of the four but its better than 8D.

So far the new Ghost sounds like how music is supposed to sound...

faze o sample is :D

Where did all these people come from?

euro wutang fans

I dunno what crack you all are smoking or if the "official" version is REALLY different from the leaked tracks compiled above but deej and colin totally OTM, these beats are tired and shitty and sluggish and completely uninventive. I said it before but seriously - a totally obvious and played-out SLY drum sample from the RZA?! "The Good the Bad and the Ugly" dialogue? (dude B.A.D beat you to the punch on that shit in 1983, and with a better tune to boot!) The rapping is lazy and uninspired - GZAs verse on the ODB RIP track is surprisingly pathetic, esp coming from him. There are some bright spots here and there but altogether I am amazed at how half-assed it is.

Iron Flag IS a really good album - "Rules" alone is fantastic + Uzi (Pinky Ring Shit). there is nothing as good as either of those from what I've heard of the new album.

Listen harder

Shakey, the retail version is very different from the leaks, give it a listen before you knock the earlier leaks. Theres no "Good the Bad and the Ugly" sample, no "Sly" sample.

Go dl, listen, then come back and form an opinion.

I can't do the streaming thing - I'll just be a good little consumer and, um, buy these for my baby's birthday

Lost in the Wu-Tang/Ghostface hype: GZA has a new album in Jan.

It's a compilation album with GZA heavily featured.

Rza produced Gza record coming next year though

Alright...I give up. I love this album. It's awesome. Not what I was expecting, or what I really wanted, but it'll do. RZA's production is rather amazing. I still want to hear Shaolin vs. Wu-Tang, although I doubt that it will ever come to fruition. Also, I would love to hear RZA do another Wu-member solo album front-to-back.

I still hate the fucking chorus on Gun Will go. Who the fuck wrote that chorus? Aside from Dashing off of Iron Flag, that has to be the weakest thing I've ever heard on a group album. Worse than Black Shampoo.

Excellent, I knew you'd come around

Am I the only person on Earth who will stick up for "Black Shampoo"?

Calgon, take me away.

Am I the only person on Earth who will stick up for "Black Shampoo"?

-- The Reverend, Saturday, 8 December 2007 19:53 (2 hours ago) Link

haha i like this but i really did think i was the only person

I like Black Shampoo. You can't deny that it is generally regarded as their low-point, though. U-God gets no respect. : (

man, Raekwon owns all the tracks he appears on. This album is much better than I'd ever expect. I sincerely hope Dr. Phil gets to do RZA and Rae so RZA can produce Cuban Linx Pt.II, soon....

anyone know who did beats for that?

Rza did most of it, Dre did 2 or 3 tracks, one from J. Dilla, one from DJ Scratch, etc

no "Sly" sample.

E-Rock Zombie - who's lyin here

And the way he assembles tracks still impresses, whether piling on thin sample layers (a guitar from Nancy Sinatra's "Bang Bang"; the drum machine taps from There's a Riot Goin' On)

"The Heart Gently Weeps", has precedent, since the Jimmy Ponder soul-jazz cover that acts as its foundation was rhymed over by Ghostface on the circa-Pretty Toney white-label track "My Guitar"

is this acceptable terminology to refer to a mixtape track y/n

that whole review does not make me any more enthusiastic. and yet all the reviews I've read have been glowing...? wtf

I mean I heard that "layered sampling" of those very samples and thought gimme a break this is some lazy-ass sub-1989-style bullshit. also lolz @ "Maggot Brain" comparison?! Ridiculous.

I get the idea (from the little I've read so far) that for most reviewers new Wu-Tang is better than no Wu-Tang, at this point.

This is mostly mediocre.

y'all are bananas. record gets better and better every time i listen. also, "maggot brain" ref totally makes sense w/ "unpredictable."

and it's not even "any wu is better than no wu," since i thought iron flag was garbage.

Naw, Iron Flag is good, dude.

iron flag is way better than this. this is trash

still going to see them live this week

Method Man is such a fucking rock star.

You're right, I was "lying" about the sly sample.

Curses ! Caught in a vicious "lie" !

Either way, the album is amazing, regardless of samples

"Sunlight" is HANDS DOWN the worst Wu-Tang song of all time.

sorry if i'm late but just listening now....all these singing hooks are wack as fuck.

a few songs have been sort of fucked up production in a cool way, a lot of it sounds just goofy.

Iron Flag is great. we've been over this.

i still have not heard this

why do people report their opinion on a record during their first listening

what is the point of that

best wu since iron flag

i apologize j0hn

"Sunlight" is HANDS DOWN the worst Wu-Tang song of all time.

uhhh, disagree. it's one of the best tracks on the album.

I don't understand some of the disappointed, dismissive reactions. Seems hasty to me. Wu members' material (in general) has been declining in quality since Forever. We're fortunate to have anything at all from them. Some of the production is straight dope on 8 Diagrams. Hearing Raekwon flow on something as hushed as "gun will go" is fantastic. Yeah, some of the hooks are WACK, but the whole wu catalog is riddled w/wack instances. There's an abundance of other material if this ain't your thing. My faith in quality discussion on ILX has plummeted after reading some of the responses in this thread. Sorry, I'm wondering when the vinyl release will be available.

i have a theory:

has GZA uttered the phrase "witty unpredictable" on every gza record and wu group joint?

why do people report their opinion on a record during their first listening

what is the point of that

-- J0hn D., Wednesday, 12 December 2007 21:57 (Yesterday) Link

generally i understand it to be a report of their opinion on first listening

"get em out ya way pa" = terrible

xpost: I thought so, too, until I knew better.

why do people report their opinion on a record during their first listening

what is the point of that

This is the point: The Studio - West Coast

I'm one of those people who just enjoys everything Wu does and doesn't think too deeply about which is one is better than the other because Wu's always managed to be above the avg quality bar with each album release their entire career.

8 Diagrams is def. a Top 10 of 2007 for me, and there's plenty of good records this year. (Although I've been bad about catching up with even the crucial solo albums, so that alone should discount my opinion here. Sorry, but I'm just not rich enough to go there.. yet)

generally i understand it to be a report of their opinion on first listening

I mean I guess there's some value (overestimated I'd say) in "I've listened to it once and my first impression was this" but y'know how interested are you in reading a review of a movie from the perspective of a dude at the popcorn counter about 1/3 of the way through

just seems kinda lame is all

nothing personal to Matt, everybody does this now. that other thread, that's interesting. "halfway through and this sucks" - pretty pointless, almost as pointless as taking issue with play-by-play album impressions

halfway through your post i knew i disagreed with it

I aim to please

I got this today, and I've listened to it a few times, but it feels like this is an album that'll take some time to sink in. Anyway, already I can say that I like it, obviously it ain't gonna beat 36 Chambers, but this sounds about as good The W (i.e. quite good). I kinda like the fact that it's mostly a slow and gritty album, these guys are in their late 30's or early 40's, so I think it's fitting there are few bangers here. Then again, "Unpredictable", the one obvious banger, is amazing! I even like the electric guitar shreds (which normally sound dubious on rap tunes, including "The Heart Gently Weeps"), because they're so atonal and add to the general tumult of the song.

It's true that some of hooks are kinda weak (like on "Wolves"), but others work very well - the extended singing on "Stick Me for My Riches" is awesome. GZA sounds kinda weaker than expected here, but then again Meth is better than I expected, so that kinda balances it. And even if the rhymes are maybe not as brilliant as people hoped for, I really don't understand folks who complain about the beats. This is one of the best set of RZA beats I've heard since 36 Chambers. Some of the leaked and prereleased versions sounded kinda crappy through the headphones on my computer, but listening the CD on a proper stereo makes it all so much better. The samples are kinda obvious but RZA brings new life to them; beats are so deep and spacious, the basslines especially make my skin tingle. It's a not huge deviation from the classic Wu sound, but it still sounds fresh and compelling.

A couple of obvious complaints: what's the point of the extended Chinese monologue at the end of "Life Changes"? How many Wu fans actually know Chinese? And why the hell do ODB's vocals "16th Chamber/O.D.B Special" sound so incredibly distant and crappy. Okay, it's nice to hear his voice one more time, and I know the vocal comes from some 15-year old almost-forgotten tape, but if RZA really couldn't make it sound better, maybe it shouldn't have been included on the album at all.

i see what yr saying j0hn, the whole instant reaction thing on the internet is probably wack for the state of rock criticism and whatenot...but i guess i just post stuff a lot of times cuz i'm procrastinating at work and um...i guess yeah there is no point to it, but there's no point to like 99.9% of everything i post.

and after 2 more listens my opinion of this isn't exactly skyrocketing. it seems so...dead inside..to me....like it's like they aren't really a group in any real way and probably haven't been since...shit? the second album probably in reality. i don't know. sometimes the beats seems sort of offkilter in a cool/interesting way but they don't gel. like rza wants to ape that dilla/doom/madlib indie offkilter thing but can't get it right.

the singing hooks are just terrible. like when c-list groups w/no budget get some chick from around the way to sing on their hooks. like they sound like hooks from local rap groups that hand out CD-Rs at shows.

lolz. are the r&b hooks really worse or diff than those on forever though?

I can't think of a single bad r&b hook on Forever

I think the Erykah Badu chorus and the extended singing on "Stick Me for My Riches" are really good, though Badu kinda sounds out of place on a Wu. The other hooks aren't that memorable, but at least on "Unpredictable" and "Wolves" they're used in a kinda distorted manner, so they really just add to mood of the tune rather than being something you should be able to hum along with. The only really irritating sung chorus is with "Life Changes", and in that song it is also used way too many times. It's supposed to be a song about Wu members reminiscing ODB, so I want to listen to that, not to some bad r'n'b hook after every verse.

badus hook is good. that song sounds a lot better than the first version that leaked. but the rest are mostly shitty (george clintons one is just him doing the same hook/guest cameo hes been doing for about 15 years now). its a good album though, and the clan all sound really good for the most part (ghost sounds better/much less predictable than he does on his own albums these days, although that 'liberia' line on take it back makes me think of necro and non phixion for some unfortunate reason). not terrible at all like some of you are making out, its not classic hardcore wu, its a different mode for them, more meditative without being corny 'grown man rap'. yeah, the rza has been lazy for years now, his sampling hasnt been anywhere as inventive as it used to be (but then a lot of people sample like that now, ie where samples sound like theyve been barely treated or processed) but this is different, its a new, if not immediately awe-inspiring sound for him. i dont think odb should 'feature' on any more new songs though. either release the demos as they are or just leave it now. its fake.

"why do people report their opinion on a record during their first listening"

the same reason people post things like 'FIRST!' in the comments section of a blog.

I quite like this but I pulled out Iron Flag again and... it seems a shame to me that that will probably be the only Wu-Tang album of its type ever. This sounds a lot like The W to me.

I only just read about Raekwon or whoever saying RZA was becoming a hip hop hippie, but to me it' s more like he's always been like that and then on Iron Flag he forgot and the result was amazing (though TBH many of the best tracks on that were non-RZA production jobs).

Iron Flag is still the worst Wu album.

Surely you meant to say it's the best!

(srsly am I weird for thinking this is the case?)

Everybody seem to agree 36 Chambers is best obv, then everybody fights about which of the other 3 is the WORST THING THEY HAVE EVER DONE and there's like no middle ground. It's weird.

"(srsly am I weird for thinking this is the case?)"

very very weird. ;) if you think IF is the best wu album, you might just not like the rzas production or the general wu aesthetic (which i find hard to separate from what i think the wus albums should sound like). pinky ring was okay, but that album seemed a shambles. not pulled it out in a while but still, i cant imagine its aged that well. the best wu tang album is still 36 chambers (followed by forever, the w, 8 diagrams, iron flag).

actually, a lot of IF was produced by the rza wasnt it? i just remember hearing it and thinking it didnt sound like a 'wu tang' album and that the rza really had finally fallen off. i should try and get a copy again.

everybody fights about which of the other 3 4 is the WORST THING THEY HAVE EVER DONE and there's like no middle ground

I have never heard Iron Flag but Tim is making me real curious about it

It's the Wu-Tang party album. The beats are mostly uptempo and punchy rather than drugged-out and paranoid ("The Glock" aside) and the whole album just sounds thoroughly energised. 8 Diagrams swings in the other direction. I like drugged-out and paranoid Wu-Tang as well but Iron Flag is an unusually enjoyable Wu-related album to listen to.

That's just the first half though. After "Pinky Ring", the second half of Iron Flag is pretty much the same murky Wu as expected.

That's why I was a bit disappointed with Iron Flag - the first half does indeed sound energized and different, but the second half is pretty much Wu autodrive. I think The W was a better attempt to take the Wu sound into all sorts of new directions.

You think so? I agree that the second half veers closer to a typical Wu sound, but it seems like such a crisp and often emotionally direct (esp. "Babies" and the first half of "Iron Flag") version of it, and "Y'all Been Warned" and "Radioactive" (which are the closest things to typical Wu tracks) are like Wu idealised - much more frantic and propulsive than most of The W I think.

I dunno, actually I haven't listened to Iron Flag in ages, so maybe calling the second half "Wu autodrive" was kinda exaggerating it. But there's a still a big diffence between the back-to-old-school jams on the first half and the grittier stuff on the second. I guess it's true that RZA's beats had gotten crisper and somewhat more energetic at the time; Digital Bullet, which came out in 2001 too, has even more of that. If you haven't heard it you should check it out, in my opinion has some of his best beats ever (better than Iron Flag).

If only I could tolerate RZA's flow better, I could easily call Digital Bullet one of the best 3 or 4 Wu solo joints ever.

I think RZA's has always had the worst technique of the 9 members, he usually just does this start-stop type of flow, which at worst means he pauses after every word, like he's unable to integrate rhythmic structure to longer rhymes.

it is a lot more energised than 8 diagrams but the problem i had with a lot of the beats was that they just didnt sound very 'wu-ish' (eg - rules sounds like generic sub-dj premier standard boom bap). yall be warned is great though.

Does anyone know what's the deal with Cappadonna on this album? He appears on at least three songs, but his name isn't mentioned anywhere else in the booklet except the shoutout section. If he's an official member again, why not mention him with the others? And if he isn't, why not add "feat. Cappadonna" to those song titles? Not very nice towards the guy, especially since he was dropped off of Iron Flag and his picture airbrushed off the album cover.

I guess this has to do with the late changes made with the album rather than being something intentional.

There are interesting interviews with Cappa and Deck on hiphopgame.com

Side note: Cappa's been pretty lazy on the mic after Fishscale. If I hear him say "grind" one more time...

Side note 2: I really hate Rules. That beat and hook are too homo for Wu. I put it up there with Dashing as two of the corniest Wu choruses ever.

Side note 3: Can't wait for Shaolin vs. Wu-Tang. It really seems like the other members know exactly what I want to hear from them.

I can't even imagine how bad a Wu album with no RZA production would sound

valuable new posters

I would imagine it to be pretty damn good if Ghost is overseeing it. RZA is a legend, no doubt, but he is far from the only producer capable of making classics. I can think of quite a few classic or soon-to-be-classic Wu songs that weren't produced by RZA. I think Wu were impacted more by Dirty's death (R.I.P.) than they ever would be by RZA's absence.

I have never heard Iron Flag but Tim is making me real curious about it

Radioactive is worth the price of admission.

iron flag is a cool album

love "babies"

still hate 8 diagrams

Yeah, Iron Flag is their second best album after the debut.

Wu members' material (in general) has been declining in quality since Forever.

i like how this could've been said with a lowercase or capital F and would still mean pretty much the same thing either way.

"Unpredictable" is the best track ever.

8 Diagrams still isn't growing on me.

Sucks to be you

the same reason people post things like 'FIRST!' in the comments section of a blog.

-- titchyschneiderMk2, Saturday, 15 December 2007 11:35 (6 days ago) Link

jesus christ I'M SORRY I DIDN'T POST A NUANCED AND THOUGHTFUL ACCOUNTING OF THE NEW WU-TANG ALBUM AND HOW IT MAKES ME FEEL.

listened to it a couple of more times on a flight to and from a Carnival Funship (TM). still seems muddled and half-hearted.

I can't believe how down a lot of posters seem on The W now. I love Iron Flag, but The W is equally great in it's own super moody way.

Also I get the impression that non-RZA-production on Wu albums is kind of a fiction. Even if he isn't necessarily behind the controls, it seems like he's the one who's making all the decisions.

The W is has brilliant moments, probably the best group stuff outside the debut and "Triumph", but it's kind of patchy. I'm certainly not down on it.

What are the patchy bits (other than "Conditioner")?

Also I get the impression that non-RZA-production on Wu albums is kind of a fiction. Even if he isn't necessarily behind the controls, it seems like he's the one who's making all the decisions.

-- Alex in SF, Friday, December 21, 2007 10:55 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Three hats.

I realize other people like these, but "Hollow Bones" and the Busta song have never done much for me.

The W is my favorite Wu album after the debut, precisely for "Hollow Bones." 8 Diagrams is fucking great, though.

I bought Iron Flag when it came out, listened to it maybe twice, sold it. Couldn't imagine listening to Ghostface's line about "I'm in charge of the war" now.

Hah but that line is great! Anyway do you really think Ghostface could do a worse job than the current administration.

Also, keep in mind: "this war" = Afghanistan, not some Iraq bullshit

Even if he isn't necessarily behind the controls, it seems like he's the one who's making all the decisions.

hes making the decision that someone else should be behind the controls. ;)

Ghostface's line about "I'm in charge of the war"

that line still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Yeah, but I mean even on all those tracks with "other producers" on Iron Flag, the RZA is listed as the one responsible for the mix. And even the Trackmasters sound to me like they are doing their best RZA imitation on the one track where the RZA is supposedly not responsible for either.

How far had Afghanistan even progressed when "Rules" was recorded? I'm inclined to give jingoism from late 2001 a free pass. No free pass for decisions (or songs) made in 2003 though.

"Who the fuck knocked our buildings down?
Who the man behind the World Trade massacres, step up now
Where the four planes at huh is you insane bitch?
Fly that shit over my hood and get blown to bits!
No disrespect, that's where I rest my head
I understand you gotta rest yours true, nigga my people's dead
America, together we stand, divided we fall
Mr. Bush sit down, I'm in charge of the war!"

Yeah I don't think it's so much about Afganistan (which was well underway by the time the record came out) as it as about the WTC <<insert a non-loaded descriptor of people who plan to fly planes into buildings>>.

ghostface siding with george bush and being very patriotic is just weird though. and coming from the wu, im not used to that. patriotism doesnt really sit well with a lot of other lyrics/stances in their lyrics. but then i didnt like that line then, still dont.

Is he really siding with Bush? He's telling Bush to sit down!

hes only telling him to sit down so he can take charge cos he thinks he can do a better job - not because they have ideological differences!

Does he not have ideological differences with Bush?! I mean not two lines before that he say that he understands their need to rest their heads. There seems to be actual empathy in that lyric to me. It's not all bluster.

Although obviously there is a lot of bluster and quite a bit of nationalism as well and obviously some real (and understandable) anger.

Taken into context with the line about blowing up planes flying over the hood, I actually think it ties into the Malcolm X themes that run through Supreme Clientele - the black man has to defend himself the only way he knows how, from the govt and terrorists!

where do the wu's feelings on terrorism fit with their pro-muslim (or muslim-empathising) stance though? or does that suddenly become moot when its in their own back yard?

Very complicatedly like most people's feelings on those subjects.

I think "8 Diagrams" is great, but every listen is badly marred by two things that hurt my brain with cheese:

1) "Starter"

2) The irredemiably goofy (and goofily delivered) line, "This is the way that we roll in the streets" (Gun Will Go)

"Wolves" RULES!

mr x is a weirdo

(irredemably)

I actually think I like The W the most out of all of Wu Tang's albums...

I would have to sit down and listen to 36 and Forever before making that statement definitive but I really love The W...

Its the most mature Wu Tang album to me.

RZA's production is so subtle and weird and perfect and the lyrics and MCing is on point.

Raekwon murderrs that album with his stuff, so does Meth and I don't even like Meth...

Lol

I mean sit down and listen to 36 and Forever AGAIN ( I havent' listened to both fully in a little while).

Left that key word out.

Proceed to clown on me...

"Wolves" is so overrated. Or at least the new version is. It's rather anti-climactic. I remember RZA saying it sounded like "Bring the Ruckus." I wonder if he's heard the song since '93.

I'm comfortable with Starter and Gun Will Go right now, so long as there's no one around to hear it. I'd certainly cringe during those songs if anyone were with me, though. Or maybe I'd just skip them.

RZA's verses on Rushing Elephants and Stick Me For My Riches should be cut. Don't lie. They're corny. "Plus 'A' not for apple, but I pack a apple."

Glad to see you guys get it

-- Erock Zombie, Tuesday, November 27, 2007 7:12 PM (3 weeks ago)

Bro, I dunno why you think other people have to like the album for you to like it. It's not like the majority of people in the thread didn't give actual concrete reasons that they didn't like it--they DID.

Side note 2: I really hate Rules. That beat and hook are too homo for Wu. I put it up there with Dashing as two of the corniest Wu choruses ever.

this album is just sounds so blah to me. everything about it -- the verses, the beats, the artwork even (looks blah), just depresssing.

well that sucks cuz I just bought it. oh well, will see what I think.

Still diggin' the beats on this, aside from the beatles jam. I think the only thing that really bothers me is Rza's verse on 'life changes' ... all louder than the rest, slow and measured. self-important soundin. WTF, Rza. rza-ridiculous/ In fact, that whole track is pretty much useless

the weird, out-of-place horn and acoustic strumming? sounds buried deep inside 'windmill' always trip me out

So much to hate, so much to love. Why must every Wu-Tang album be so polarizing?

I can't believe people are actually disliking "Gun Will Go" (is it only the European version of the album that lists it as "Guns Will go?). Okay, maybe the chorus lyric is kinda corny, but the looow bassline and the strings and the dubby horns that kick in mid-song are amazing - so deep and melancholy.

The more I listen to this, the more I feel "Life Changes" is actually the worst song here, besides the bonus tunes. Some of the verses on it are quite good (especially Deck's and RZA's), but the chorus is very irritating and it comes too often, and the beat is uninspired too. That's too sad, I think the inevitable ODB tribute should've been the best song on the album, not the worst.

I'm giving this album another chance after reading Christgau's review.

I did hate pretty much every Wu Tang group album other than 36 chambers on first listen and now I love them.

this is pretty dope

love how windmill throws the diary of a madman intro in the mix

After I've had a little time to digest it, I think that The Heart Gently Weeps didn't quite deliver on the hype, and Weak Spot has suspicious drum similarities with Bells of War, from Wu-Tang Forever (whose aesthetic I think they were kinda going after with the CD jewel case art?).

Salright, but it sounds like RZA is second guessing himself (or getting second guessed) and overproducing most of the tracks on the CD. Life Changes is my fave on there, with all the little subtleties and generally some of his older habits (what can I say, I fear change), like the stronger kick drum coming in before his verse, the reversed bit, and the incredibly long Chinese-language vocal sample at the end.

this is pretty dope

-- and what, Thursday, January 3, 2008 4:55 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Link

o_O

sayin

the beats are weak... like, the actual kicks and shit sound fruitylooped out, and the verses are mad sloppy, but i fuck with it

who is costello?

my fav is stick me for my riches

gza goes CASH RULES FUCK THE BACON

who is costello?

-- J0rdan S., Tuesday, January 8, 2008 10:41 PM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

A noob. (Jeffery Mac referred me a while back.)

Who is Jeffery Mac?

He's not a noob.

hmmf i still like it

I can't believe people are actually disliking "Gun Will Go" (is it only the European version of the album that lists it as "Guns Will go?). Okay, maybe the chorus lyric is kinda corny, but the looow bassline and the strings and the dubby horns that kick in mid-song are amazing - so deep and melancholy.

...Totally-the horns that kick in are total trip-hop, like, in a good way. Foolish of me--the stupid chorus barred me from paying closer attention till recently.

Whoever said the record sounds depressing: I agree. I like that about it.

i really like this record, even with those shitty choruses (of which there arent thaaaaat many).

yeah i'm still not hearing it. i mean, it's still better than a lot of stuff, anything with gza and rae and everyone is going to be better than a lot of bullshit, but still seems heartless to me in a way that bums me out.

whens cuban linx 2 coming out?

yestermorrow

campfire stuck on replay

starting to feel the same way about this that i do about zodiac not getting oscar noms

anybody not getting amped off 'wolves' doesnt really love wu

n.y. city, gritty blocks, little love, plenty cops
few rise, many drop, true lies, semis cocked
fishscale, already rocked, heavy shots, that we drop
new guys on every block, blue eyes, and red dots
pregnant mothers, broke fathers, mo money mo problems
so hungry, wont starve em, work hard and so pardon

matt its not heartless, its 'weary'. i think its a good look for them.

alright u foolz u've shamed me into listening to it again after lunch! who knows maybe it'll click for me this time.

it took a while for me to get it

listen to stick me for my riches

deck sounds breathless and legendary on this, like big daddy kane

i love this album.

the singers i dont love. but the album is too long anyway so i delete those songs.

At least you gotta love the guy who's singing on "Stick Me for My Riches". The other ones are pretty forgettable.

Except for Erykah Badu, of course. Though that fucking Gary Moore electric guitar almost ruins that song for me.

dude on stick me for my riches is dude from the manhattans!!

i love campfire

YOU WANNA SEE ME?? LIKE YOU AINT CHECKABLE??
YOU LIKE A CD I BURN YOU AND I WRECKED A FEW

i love badu on that song.

we gotta get more cake together, so we can branch out
preserve land, get a boat and a ranch house
call me a dreamer but i hustle for real
you thought i fell off now im attackin the field

bloomberg make a nigga cock the mossberg

i have a theory:

has GZA uttered the phrase "witty unpredictable" on every gza record and wu group joint?

-- M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, December 12, 2007 6:11 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Link

i think meth says it on this one

it stands for WU

Witty
Unpredictable
Talent
And
Natural
Game

I still haven't bothered to get the official release version yet

we
usually
take
a
nigga's
garments

wisdom and
universal
truth of
allah for the
nation of
gods

This album rules.

Not really, no.

The LOST reference on the cover cracks me up; I can't help but imagine RZA and GZA sitting crosslegged on the floor in front of a big tv watching season 1 DVDs with legal pads, taking notes frantically.

Every once in awhile one of them turns around to shush Deck.

Doing the passive-aggressive TiVo pause thing.

I never listen to this anymore.

you mean since it came out a month ago?

I'm waiting for all the haters to sell back there copies so I can pick it up for $5 in a month or so the way I did with the last two.

you mean since it came out a month ago?

probably since it leaked.

http://waxdj.com/download.php?band_id=1263&song_id=11432&mode=song_hifi

tracklist

1) Rules - Wu Tang Clan
2) Do You Really (Thang Thang) - Wu Tang Clan
3) Triumph - Wu Tang Clan
4) 4th Chamber - Genius/Gza ft Ghostface Killah, Killah Priest & Rza
5) Rainy Dayz - Raekwon ft Ghostface Killah
6) Rainy Dayz (Long Dirty Remix) - Raekwon ft Ghostface Killah
7) One Step - Killah Priest
8) Bastards - Wu Tang Killa Bees
9) Wu Wear - Rza ft Method Man & Cappadonna
10) A Better Tomorrow - Wu Tang Clan
11) Can It Be All So Simple - Wu Tang Clan
12) Ice Cream - Raekwon ft Ghostface Killah
13) Publicity - Genius/Gza
14) Apollo Kids - Ghostface Killah ft Raekwon
15) One Of These Days - Wu Tang Clan
16) Cold World (Rza Remix) - Genius/Gza ft D'Angelo & Inspector Deck
17) Reunited - Wu Tang Clan
18) Shimmy Shimmy Ya - Ol Dirty Bastard
19) Da Mystery Of Chessboxin - Wu Tang Clan
20) Method Man - Wu Tang Clan
21) Uzi (Pinky Ring) - Wu Tang Clan
22) Bring The Pain - Method Man
23) Protect Ya Neck (The Jump Off) - Wu Tang Clan
24) Wu Tang Clan Aint Nuthin Ta Fuck Wit - Wu Tang Clan
25) Protect Ya Neck - Wu Tang Clan
26) Tragedy - Rza
27) Cream - Wu Tang Clan

apparently im the only one in the world hating on this so ill give it another chance when i get around to it

Given Iron Flag is far and away my favourite I can understand why i'm relatively disappointed (though I still think this is quite good), but for people who love The W I'm not sure what the problem is.

I haven't heard the entire album yet, but what I heard was pretty meh. If the Wu would work with people like Chris Cutler, Ikue Mori and Mark Feldman, then I'd probably be more inclined to check out there new stuff.

apparently im the only one in the world hating on this so ill give it another chance when i get around to it

-- deej, Saturday, 26 January 2008 21:06 (Yesterday) Link

No you are not. Your hating on this is justified. This shit sucks.

"Given Iron Flag is far and away my favourite"

still WTF-ing at this^^

"apparently im the only one in the world hating on this"

most people who prefer D4L and franchise boyz dont like it that much either.

I regret buying this album - should've trusted my first impression

most people who prefer D4L and franchise boyz dont like it that much either.

-- titchyschneiderMk2, Sunday, January 27, 2008 1:51 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

prefer d4l and franchise boys to what?

its really kinda stunning to me - there's a couple songs that are really good but most of it is so unfocused and lazy and sluggish and just flat out SOUNDS bad, even when the rapping is good (and it often is) the production really undermines everything. I would not have expected a Wu-Tang release where the worst thing about it was the RZA but here we are...

It's weird how this album polarizes people - to me the production is the best part of the album. Do you really think that tracks like "Unpredictable" or "Gun Will Go" or "Stick Me for My Riches" have weak beats?

Shakey Mo pretty much captures my feelings here. RZA's great when he's aiming for ugly, but when he's going for something else and arrives at ugly, yuck.

"most people who prefer D4L and franchise boyz dont like it that much either."

titchy I kinda like this album but this statement is like sudden devolution of yr entire species level stupid.

"Unpredictable" or "Gun Will Go" or "Stick Me for My Riches" have weak beats?

those are the three well-produced songs. the rest are middling to terrible.

that Beatles "interpolation" is fucking godawful but what do you expect with Frusciante and Drakoulias in the same room with Dhani Harrison

actually wait no I was thinking of Wolves, Gun Will Go is kinda crappy.

I've never been a huge Wu-Fan or anything, but I'm digging this album. The first time I heard it, it kind of sucked the life out of the room and I didn't enjoy it, but I'm growing towards it. The slow, gritty feeling reminds me of a lot of dubstep stuff.

I hated this album the first several times I listened to it...

But I'm starting to get into it...

I think its because I've gone through a major shift as far as my appreciation of music in the last few months.

I always loved Hip Hop and still enjoyed lots of other genres, but only recently have I really begun to fall in love with rock and roll the way I fell in love with Hip Hop.

The beats on this album don't have the percussive Hip Hop bite that ninety nine percent of all Hip Hop songs have, and every other Wu Tang song has...

Its really Wu Tang rapping over rock and roll, even the songs that are most traditionally Hip Hop beat-wise, are very organic and the vocals always sound out of place, even when they sound good...

I think Hip Hop as a whole is a music form that is very much about immediate gratification.

Even Wu Tang, who can be very cryptic, sonically have always put together music that very much abides by this credo.

A banging RZA beat with complex multi-syllabic rhymes ranging from the absurd to the flashy is something that I can appreciate instantly.

I think non-Hip Hop music, is something that, for me at least, is less about immediate gratification.

8 Diagrams won't hold the average Hip Hop heads attention because it doesn't have that instant gratification, that feeling that one gets when a good rapper rides a well-made beat.

This is why big time critics (most of which are not Hip Hop heads, at least primarily) are loving this album, and the average Hip Hopper, including Ghostface and Raekwon (and myself until pretty much today) were left feeling disillusioned.

That being said, I'm really enjoying this album right now.

Do ''Big Time Critics'' love this album? My impression is that it got lukewarm reviews all around, e.g., it has a 72 METASCORE.

...But it was produced by "the greatest rap producer of all time" (c) ILM '08!

Even people who voted for RZA in that poll reserve the right to say this album sounds like ass.

this album is good if you delete a lot of it.

nahh
i play this out at least once a week since it dropped & its still killin it

you AND Colin C

that colin c post is insane.... more of a "rock" sound?? beats on this is straight up dirty 70s soul not whatever blog-indie colin c is nerd-rapping over for a shot at doing a mixtape with catchdubs

growing suspicion that colin c is sanskrit

i wish someone would edit most of the singing off this.

titchyschneider otm - I think I kept a grand total of four songs off this on my ipod. so many bad sung choruses and lazy beats.

i wish someone would edit most of the singing off this.

-- titchyschneiderMk2, Tuesday, April 15, 2008 4:44 PM (2 months ago)

edit THIS out?!

"That bitch is crazyyyyy
And uh, she brought her babyyyyy
She knew I hard the murders, a smack
It killed her man though, now I got his fuckin nephew grippin his gat
You's a bitch - (singing) you better kill meeeee
You know you're bootyyyyyy
You pulled your toolie, out on meeeee... motherfucker"

this album really grew on me, you guys.

http://www.midtowncomics.com/Neshop/Product_detail.asp?PR_ID=973014

Uh, yeah.

I rediscovered "Heart Gently Weeps" this weekend. <3 <3 <3

also i've only heard the loud.com exclusive version

this fucking disaster of an album

I think non-Hip Hop music, is something that, for me at least, is less about immediate gratification.

rushing elephants is great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boIwUDUa1f4

eh. the beat is okay but it's basically just that one loop over and over - and Raekwon, GZA, and RZA all sound like they're vocals are punched in from an entirely different song. none of them ride the beat.

their argh

i guess i like how lurching and sorta weird the whole thing feels.
lots of great hip hop songs are one loop over and over IMO

that's true but I don't think this is one of them

(altho that is far from the worst track on the album and is actually one of the ones I kept)

also i've only heard the loud.com exclusive version

― Tape Store, Monday, August 4, 2008 5:30 AM (2 years ago) Bookmark

and yeah I will still rep for parts of this album — the first track is really cool, sets a nice vibe — which is unfortunately not really sustained, developed, or delivered on by most of what comes after it

still, I'll bet you could put together a killer album of the best stuff from this, cuban linx 2, and post-fishscale ghostface albums

well cuba links 2 is a killer album already

^^^yep

and not because of the RZA

who I think is largely to blame for this abortion of an album

I kinda liked 8 diagrams but it didn't stick on my system the way cuban linx 2 did

guess I should go back and check it again now that shakey hates it

hey I hated it from the get go!

mostly only revived this thread because of Tuomas' nonsense about this being the best Wu Tang album since the debut

was our Raccoon Tanuk already here?
--------------------------------------------------
Yeah, "Iron Flag" is definitely a "Great" album.

Your credibility ended there

― Erock Zombie, Wednesday, November 28, 2007 1:57 AM bookmarkflaglink
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Iron Flag IS a really good album - "Rules" alone is fantastic + Uzi (Pinky Ring Shit). there is nothing as good as either of those from what I've heard of the new album.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, November 28, 2007 2:48 PM bookmarkflaglink

Listen harder

― Erock Zombie, Wednesday, November 28, 2007 6:26 PM bookmarkflaglink