CROOKED RAIN CROOKED POLL

Fillmore Jive, by a mile. One of the best breakdowns I've ever heard.

oh fuuuuuuck gotta bee Ell Ess Two for me. i still remember exactly where i was standing when i heard this for the first time. good poll dmr

inspired by listening to this on my roof at 2am saturday with about 10 ilxors. bourbony goodtimes.

i'll be boring and say gold soundz

I'm deciding between Gold Soundz, Elevate, and Fillmore ....

I hope "Cut Your Hair" wins in a landslide.

Stop Breathin'

Absolutely "Range Life" for me. But then I always did love their more countryish numbers.

"5-4=Unity" for me.

"range life"

i was rocking out to this song at a bar recently and some guy came up and lifted his shift to reveal a HUGE "range life" tattoo down his side.

"5-4=Unity" for me.

Whaaaaa....

Gold Soundz 4 life, because

1. Is it a crisis or a boring change?
2. It has a nice ring when you laugh
3. And they're coming to the chorus now

(3.5. Sweetest, most blissed-out summery instrumental break in the history of like ever)

4. So drunk in the August sun
5. You're the kind of girl I like
6. Because you're empty, and I'm empty

5-4

I'm deciding between Gold Soundz, Elevate, and Fillmore ....

-- dmr, Monday, September 3, 2007 8:54 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

ooh or maybe "Unfair", that's a great one too

"Stop Breathin'" because of the ending.

gold soundz!

Fillmore Jive, but damn, what a tough choice

"Elevate Me Later", the closest they ever got to the shimmering of Reckoning (and that's a great thing to aspire to).

5-4 peeeple be crazypants

"Gold Soundz," cuz you can never quarantine the past.

Unfair

5-4 peeeple be crazypants

No!

It's sorta amazing how much I hate seeing "Silent Kid" listed as "Silence Kit" or similar. I really wish Malkmus never did that.

I'll be fancy and call it by it's real name: Loretta's Scars II

I voted for "Unfair," but honestly this is kinda impossible for me.

Why harsh on my (or Jordan's or jergïns') pick of "5-4=Unity"? It is a sweet little song, a nice melody and a good break from their lyrics which I've never particularly cared for. Very hummable.

42 MINTZ

THE PERFECT TONE YOU ACHIEVE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR AMP

I predict Gold Soundz will win this by a country mile

One of those songs you can NEVER really get tired of

This will probably seem a ridiculous statement to many ILMers but CRCR may be the single most important album I heard in terms of what else it led me to hearing. That or Mars Audiac Quintet. I listened to it so much that pretty much every track became perfect to me and I can't possibly choose.

...That said, the Elevate Me Later option is looking pretty tempting.

Yeah Either Gold Soundz or Range Life.

Range Life! It's true, Pavement were always quite good at country.

Unfair!

"Range Life" for me too, although I agree that "Stop Breathin" has a killer ending section.

It's sorta amazing how much I hate seeing "Silent Kid" listed as "Silence Kit" or similar. I really wish Malkmus never did that.

Let it go brah.

i like songs that have two names

"Range Life" is one of the few Pavement songs with lyrics I can directly relate to.

"Silent Kid" is great, but like a lot of their songs, I have to wonder...wtf is he singing about?

Sweet that right as I'm reading this thread the Hot Chip/Stephen Malkmus remix popped in my headphones. A match made in hell?

I don't know why it annoys me so when people refer to Pavement songs by names other than the one printed on the sleeve. Is it because you know what it was called in its baby stages? Or how it's referred to on the setlists? Jeezus, that's annoying.

Elevate Me Later (Ell Ess Two or Loretta's Scars II or whatever the fuck) gets my vote.

"Range Life" is one of the few Pavement songs with lyrics I can directly relate to.

You went out on tour with Smashing Pumpkins anbd Stone Temple Pilots?

Naw, I just like the part about settling down, that's all. They are foxy to me. Are they foxy to you?

I need to sleep!

Why won't you let me! (srsly why am I still clicking on this thread it's 12 minutes past my bed time)

"So drunk, in the August sun, and you're the kind of girl I like..."

Top 20 songs ever.

out on my skateboard the night is just humming

Paul, the name printed on the sleeve isn't always the final word! I mean, if you bought CRCR on tape, it lists the songs as "Silent Kid" and "Ell Ess Two," which is how the songs were commonly written on setlists, or referred to when Malkmus mentioned them out loud. There's some margin of error, of course, and it's kinda loose and up in the air for a reason. Personally, I just love the sound of "Ell Ess Two," and think "Elevate Me Later" is far weaker title, so I never call it that. "Silent Kid" is just the name of the song though, no matter what weird pun on it got on the sleeve!

I divvn't nah that Elevate Me Later/Ell Ess Two was Loretta's Scars II.

Also, is "Silent Kid" really that cryptic? I mean, it is a bit inscrutable in parts, but in a really basic way it's about the excitement and brotherhood that goes with being in a small-time rock band. It's not all glamorous, though -- as the song ends, they've played a great show, but he's by himself and masturbating a few hours after the gig.

All I kno about silent kid is that the guitar at the end fuggin' destroys, yo!!!1

The opening sequence of riffs is probably my favorite intro to any album.

RIFFY RIFFY RIFFS BUDDY HOLLY

i think i have to go with gold soundz over ell ess two

after quite some deliberation.

i love this album

I think it probably is kinda weird that "Newark Wilder" has a LOT more sentimental value for me than "Gold Soundz." Man, I wish my life was more like "Gold Soundz"!

The line I love the most in "Gold Soundz" is "we need secrets," which is one of the lines that most succinctly gets across the aesthetic of the band.

dreamin' dream dream dream dream

Different parts of the CD sleeve/inlay have different names for Silent Kid and Elevate Me Later too, as well as differences on each format. No longer teenage enough to remember which is where.

I quite like(d, once) the idea of calling it "silence kid" because then the first song title forms a nice cryptic circular ending to the last lyrics on the album (where he trails out on "their throats are filled with...").

after much deliberation it's 'unfair':

1. the hills of beverly
2. walk with your credit card in the air
3. (best) this is the slow sick sucking part of me

honourable mention to 'stop breathin' for 'dad they broke me' and the long guitar ending.

what a great album. totally gives the lie to the idea of a 'difficult' second album: after S&E's eager to please edginess, CRCR sounded so damned relaxed and easy that I couldn't help but let it take over my listening life. the songs were great live too. loved when they did 5-4 note for note. but 'cut your hair' was worst choice for a first off single.

I always wondered if, when Matador recieved the master tape, did they KNOW it was gonna be a huge indie classic / rite of passage kinda album? Or was it business as usual?

Man I love this album, it's everything I once loved and eventually grew to hate about this band.

but 'cut your hair' was worst choice for a first off single.

Are you serious? It's the most obvious single in the band's entire discography! It actually WAS a hit!

"Raynge Lyffe" for me. But ya know, "5-4=Unity" is that outré of a choice. It's easy the most polychromatic thing on the record - Capt. Beefheart's "Sue Egypt" as performed by The Dave Brubeck Quartet. Fitting, then, that James Carter et al. felt compelled to jazz up their songbook.

"Elevate Me Later" is a great name for a song. I love how it sounds like one massive raised eyebrow.

"5-4=Unity" ISN'T that outré of a choice.

i voted for 'gold soundz'
really lush sounding as far as pavement goes
fantastic record this one. doesn't really strike a dull chord

but 'cut your hair' was worst choice for a first off single.

Are you serious? It's the most obvious single in the band's entire discography! It actually WAS a hit!

-- Mr. Perpetua, Tuesday, 4 September 2007 12:00 (4 hours ago) Link

yes i'm serious. we must disagree on what makes a single obvious because i'd have picked any of the other tracks on the album as a single before that one.....

well, maybe not 5-4

stop breathin.

used to be elev8 but now its plain ol gold soundaz

just put this on ITunes, and while its nice to hear it again after many many years, I'm struck by how old Steve West is so fond of that lil shuffle he does it nearly every tune (the upbeat ones). and my gawd, is he ever sluggish!

as much as I like the songs on CRCR more than any other they done, its had a pernicious affect on indie rock, vis-a-vis most bands don't have groovin' drummers. But then, I'm kinda a single issue voter with drummers…

yes i'm serious. we must disagree on what makes a single obvious because i'd have picked any of the other tracks on the album as a single before that one.....

None of the other tracks have an "ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh" hook, and a hook like that = single.

Malky's tear in the film clip cracks me up. Tried to find a jpg, but couldn't ;_;

It took me a long time to get into Gold Soundz to be honest. I found it a bit cheesy at first, and I hate it when the title of a song is sung within its first line.

it's all good (except for hit the plane down), but i'd like to invite you to a taste of my chalice--it's a special one, it's made of gold

Elevate me Later.

I loved this album to death. I still think it's great.

None of the other tracks have an "ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh ooh" hook, and a hook like that = single.

Yeah, I agree. I'm really baffled as to why someone would pick ALL other CRCR songs (save for "5-4=Unity") for a first single before "Cut Your Hair." If the point of a single is to promote the album with the catchiest cut or to choose a song amenable for a (great) video and for radio, then the only other contender is "Range Life." And it's still not as good a choice as "Cut Your Hair." It may not be the best song on the album. It may not even be a good song at all (though I'm not saying that). But it made perfect sense as first single.

I'd like to hear how the other songs are more singley (and FIRST singley at that) than "Cut Your Hair."

Newark Wilder

followed by Stop Breathing... but that rad outro y'all are referring to is a direct lift from Can's "Sing Swan Song" off Ege Bemyasi.

also Mr. Perpetua, your OCD penchant for singles choices and song names is still rather annoying even after all this time.

those 'oohs' are shite

You still don't get it.

i get the point, thanks. i just still don't like the fckg song all that much.

Will anyone make a case for "Heaven Is A Truck?"

I always thought this woulda fit right in on Wowee Zowee. It sorta pre-empts "Grounded," to my ears...

i just still don't like the fckg song all that much.

Ah ok, that's what it was. Well, fortunately for Pavement, you weren't working for Matador at the time.

Man, you know it's not even the "oooh oooh oooh oooh" hook -- the very first time I heard the song, it was a tiny clip on MTV of just the "I remember lying, I don't remember a line, I don't remember a word, but I don't care, I care, I really don't care" part and I was hooked in immediately.

And also "career-yuh! Korea!" Hook begat hook begat hook. No brainer single choice or no, it's a great song. Even greater video (maybe best ever).

Write it on a postcard...

tough one, but i went range life.
they're foxy to me, are they foxy to you?

this album was my introduction to Pavement, still love it. i was driving back to Los Angeles from San Francisco with five other friends. we were all into music so we each picked a CD (or two) for the ride home. my friend Mike pulls out a cassette, tells us that he just got this album and that we will probably all hate it. it was only about an hour into our ride home but after awhile we stopped talking and just listened, then we played it again.

went with "Range Life"

I had to listen to this album on the way to work today to be able to vote. So so many great songs. It's not an original choice but I gotta go with Cut Yr Hair.

Elevate Me Later

i just still don't like the fckg song all that much.

Ah ok, that's what it was. Well, fortunately for Pavement, you weren't working for Matador at the time.

-- Kevin John Bozelka, Wednesday, 5 September 2007 09:59 (Yesterday) Link

yeah, like i was saying i wished i'd been there choosing the first single off the album........you patronising tosser. fortunately for pavement i still bought their singles even if the a-side was lame, cos i was a fan and i liked their music.

a song's hook alone (e.g. ooh) doesn't make it a good song, let alone a good single.

I voted for hit the plane down just because I never really thought of the song too much until I saw all of the insane irrational hate for it here.

I have insane irrational hate for Silence Kit

whatever, "Cut Your Hair" was THE song that got me into Pavement in the first place. Whether you think its good or not, it did just what it was intended to do. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

It must be such a burden to have more refined tastes than everyone else.

It's not the fucking ooohs-- it's the lyrics, it's the way they make it work despite never changing the chord progression, it's that it's the best example of the mocking seriousness about rock that makes this album so goddamn wonderful.

a song's hook alone (e.g. ooh) doesn't make it a good song, let alone a good single.

I never said a hook alone makes a good single (and I was never talking about "Cut Your Hair" as a song, good or bad). But once you unruffle your feathers, please let us know what you think makes a good single. Seriously. I want to know.

arrrgggghhhhh

Newark Wilder is my fave Pavement song ever, OK tied with "We Dance"

that last "stuff me" is like all of INDIE stuufed into one second of song

whatever, "Cut Your Hair" was THE song that got me into Pavement in the first place. Whether you think its good or not, it did just what it was intended to do. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

It must be such a burden to have more refined tastes than everyone else.

Johnny Fever, great you love the song and it got you into the band, but you're misreading me if you think i'm trying to say my taste in pavement is "more refined" than "everyone else"'s. i love(d) the band and (especially) this album, but out of the 12 tracks on it I'd take 11 of them before 'cut your hair'. it's personal preference, not point-scoring.

I never said a hook alone makes a good single (and I was never talking about "Cut Your Hair" as a song, good or bad). But once you unruffle your feathers, please let us know what you think makes a good single. Seriously. I want to know.

-- Kevin John Bozelka, Thursday, September 6, 2007 11:40 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

kevin, i've no idea what makes a good single per se. popular ones apparently sell well. the ones that sell well are apparently popular.

laurie anderson - o superman; bob dylan - like a rolling stone;
elvis presley - hound dog; althea & donna - uptown top ranking. all popular singles, but what is the point in trying to work out what common ground they share other than acknowledging their chart success?

music isn't maths. duke ellington said "if it sounds good it is good", and only half of that is right.

why did i make this poll so long

anyway, I went with elevate

Will anyone make a case for "Heaven Is A Truck?"

I always thought this woulda fit right in on Wowee Zowee. It sorta pre-empts "Grounded," to my ears...

I thought this too as Wowee Zowee has so much half-done mediocrity on it.

I'm seriously torn... nah I'll just have to skip this one, every single track on CR, CR is beyond perfect so it would be a total waste of my breath

페이브먼트짱!!!!

This is incredibly difficult.

Two weeks ago I listened to this for the first time in a year and have probably listened to it ten times since.

Eh fuck it, Gold Soundz it is.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

im tired of all the POLLS

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Wow! I didn't see this coming.

inneresting results, laidbacktrax have it

Gold zoundz is ace. n1.

this thread is full of punks
they got spikes

how the hell did Silence Kit and Fillmore Jive score so low???

they've always had their hataz

goodnight to the rock and roll era

why you complainin'

TA!

xpost OTM

i'm drunk.

released 25 years ago today

good night to the rock and roll era

/error

newark wilder doesn't get enough love

https://chainedandperfumed.com/2011/01/23/luck-on-every-finger-part-two/

https://chainedandperfumed.com/2009/03/08/luck-on-every-finger/

haha, look how excited malkmus is
http://matadorrecords.tumblr.com/post/182807378494/mat-rcocrcr25

oh and this album is still great!

"Cut Your Hair" is our generation's "We're An American Band"

https://www.theringer.com/music/2019/2/14/18224287/pavement-crooked-rain-25th-anniversary-range-life-cut-your-hair-gold-soundz

Those National Geographic finds are great

newark wilder doesn't get enough love

― we're far from the challops now (voodoo chili), Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:58 AM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

agree, def my fav

top 5 album all time, idc what 36-year-old cool guys say on Twitter in 2019

love this album to death

this thread makes my head hurt:

Listening to Malkmus yelp "You're the kind of girl I like / because you're empty / and I'm empty" in that sing-songy naifish voice makes me want to vomit

— Jeremy Gordon (@jeremypgordon) February 14, 2019

More for us, then.

A popular state!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZJeK3nBDdU&fbclid=IwAR3OjK0CRGp1mfRlzurwgaJC9h3c1K-0NiOwljIaNZGpZ5IUqvzgEZXVd5E

Dang.

Well, that was supposed to lead you to Pavement's "Colorado."

malkmus's archness was so needed among a decade of manly emotions

Someone recently posted on ILM the original source from which the "Cut Your Hair" cover art was taken (an old German LP?), but I can't find it. If you read this (whoever you are), would you mind reposting? Thx!

i honestly feel bad for those who let all the shit surrounding pavement (the slacker image, the perceived sloppiness) get in the way of letting those effortlessly pretty melodies into your heart

iirc no one at the time actually cared about archness/slackerness/sloppiness; it was more about whether they owed mark e. smith royalties or had sold out by making a video

on malkmus' tombstone: HE DID CROSSWORDS

I remember almost everyone loving them, with few complaints...

I was interning at CMJ in the summer of '95, when a VHS with the “Father to a Sister of Thought” video arrived from Matador... the editorial staff immediately went into a conference room and watched it intently, with the volume cranked up high

they really were the last psychedelic band, goodnight guys

Liked it a lot, but did not love it right after "Slanted."

Then after "Wowee Zowee" the first 3 albums plus the Westing collection crystalized into this permanent part of me.

What a journey from those first EPs to CRCR and Wowee!

we never did find out what their throats are filled with

their throats are filled with

one of my all time faves. blew my mind slightly when i first heard it

who is the 36yo cool guy

W/r/t The archness/slackerness/sloppiness it bothered me at the time, esp the show I walked out of cuz no one in the band really seemed to know how they songs went and Malkmus seemed like he was incredibly bored with everything.

I know he's said recently he doesn't understand how that rep got started...well it seemed pretty clear at the time.

And I really think UMS is right, we needed the archness, even if made some people (me) bristle.

But so, I loved Crooked Rain and I still do!

good album imo

You can definitely see the "slackness" on display here... SM seems bored to the point of passive-aggressive hostility (it's a pretty funny interview, tho):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t92FpC-7Zt0

who is the 36yo cool guy

― ||||||||, Friday, February 15, 2019 4:43 AM (eight hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

W/r/t The archness/slackerness/sloppiness it bothered me at the time, esp the show I walked out of cuz no one in the band really seemed to know how they songs went and Malkmus seemed like he was incredibly bored with everything.

I know he's said recently he doesn't understand how that rep got started...well it seemed pretty clear at the time.

And I really think UMS is right, we needed the archness, even if made some people (me) bristle.

But so, I loved Crooked Rain and I still do!

― chr1sb3singer, Friday, February 15, 2019 12:58 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it felt like the critics in that twitter thread linked above were responding to this persona, not so much the music.

lol xp

I haven't read that Twitter thread (and won't), but why bother complaining about an artist's "persona" from 20 yrs ago?

“Pavement = ironic slackers” is lazy shorthand that’s hardened into conventional wisdom. Their best songs positively ache. I mean, “Here” was covered by the Tindersticks.

— Stuart Berman (@stuberman) February 15, 2019

otm

Morris otm, but rock bands and especially indie rock bands are perpetually plagued by dolts who worry about what they represent

i generally found pavement's shambling onstage schtick more charming/entertaining than annoying back in the day (and they were occasionally great when I saw them), but i get why people might find it to be a turn off. i've always been a little confused as to why they're still such a flashpoint for some — it's cool if you don't dig 'em!

That interview is hilarious. I mean, how would you react to being interviewed by Lewis Largent, the Candlebox of MTV VJs?

I find all of their antics a lot more charming/funny now then I did, also a lot of it had to do with much hand-wringing at the time over "irony", and honestly I knew people who really liked Smashing Pumpkins & STP who felt like that those lyrics, even though they are obviously tossed off near non-sequiturs (actually that probably made it worse), were real shots fired at those fan bases.

At least in my experience the two tweakers I worked nights with didn't find it very funny that some "college boys" were making fun of them and other choice descriptions said around gobs of chewing tobacco pinched in their cheeks.

did they also use the 3-letter "f"-word?

And the 6 -letter version and several other words & phrases that don't get bandy about anymore, I certainly did.

Yeah but to describe Pavement specifically, lol (I could just tell it followed from "college boys"...)

Ha oh yeah totally, though frankly they way these dudes said it, "college boy" was just about the worst thing you call someone

are we supposed to revisit this every 5 years? i was pretty satisfied with the 20th anniv revisiting.
i did lol at era/error and start screaming KOREA in my head though

this is another one of the albums that the stalker left on my windshield. at the time, i was pretty glad he left me this one because i was going to buy it anyway. i have mostly fond memories of this album + gentlemen.

you people are my people

also, i thought their throats are filled with silence ... i.e. you loop the lyrics back around to the front end of the album. that's a theory i read, anyway.

If you mash up "Trigger Cut"/"Fillmore Jive" you get:

filled with... rocks & sand

Someone recently posted on ILM the original source from which the "Cut Your Hair" cover art was taken (an old German LP?), but I can't find it. If you read this (whoever you are), would you mind reposting? Thx!

I didn't see and can't find the original post, so sorry for not giving credit, but went looking based on that "Melody in F" text in the corner, and this looks like it:
https://www.discogs.com/release/5277469-Beer-Garden-Piano/images

Sorry to whoever originally found it, please do post here!

(There are some other, uhhh, classic cover pics in the Barrel Fingers Barry oeuvre)

Cool, thanks!

happy 30th

Oh hell.

Come on now, talk about your family

Damn

up
to the top of steve shasta gulch

write it on a postcard

in the city we forgot to name

his telephone was found

She is the queen of the House of California (Casa Pasadena), thrill

don't listen to your grandmother's advice about us, you're solid, kid

goodnight
to the rock 'n' roll era

"Fillmore Jive" was the secret key for my appreciation of Pavement.

I brought this record with me to my year studying abroad in Glasgow and this girl I met saw it and goes "oh wow Pavement, I haven't thought about them in forever." This was 1996.

Sorry 1994!

I don’t know about “ultimate” but “Elevate” is to me probably the one song I would pick if someone were to ask for one song to encapsulate what Pavement were all about

the rock kids in their vespas...

Elevate (and ELL Ess two) were and remain for me so central to their character, at their best.

it's a brand new era, but it came too late

xp Wait, isn’t that the same song(?)

i'm not your neighbor you baker street trash

I brought this record with me to my year studying abroad in Glasgow and this girl I met saw it and goes "oh wow Pavement, I haven't thought about them in forever." This was 1996.

Something about the production of cut your hair makes it sound really sludgy over speakers

Worst pavement album (but it's still an alright album)

haha I thought that after WZ came out in 1996, I have since changed my mind and rank it Westing>WZ>S&E>CRCR>BTC>TT but I am biased abt this band, been thinking a lot abt enduring artists I appreciate, e.g. SM and Kristin Hersh were both born w/in a few months of me and I have been real into both over the last year or two.

The overdose on bass production could make a shitty record player sound ok

Aka the Peter Hook Effect

Probably the easiest Pavement album for me to enjoy, but I think the first four are all great and even like the fifth as an uneven but still fairly commendable and enjoyable listen. (Bob recently said TT should've been an EP, and he's not wrong - it could've been rock solid and a great one.) I guess it's like the Velvet Underground or Big Star where there aren't many LP's and I don't want to choose favorites because they're all pretty unique and great in their own way.

Terror Twilight is a fantastic album and so is CRCR.

Been interesting listening to the Godrich alternative sequence of TT

I didn't dig TT until hearing the Godrich sequence, fwiw

“speak see remember” should be destroyed but the rest of TT is very good

^^no way, the jammy part at the end saves it

Westing>WZ>S&E>CRCR>BTC>TT

This is right tho I wouldn't call Westing an album per se, and I would put it somewhere between CR and TT

jammy part at the end of "Speak See Remember" is one of the handful of highlights on an otherwise "just OK" album!

oh wait, i misread that as if brimstead was saying that specific part should be destroyed ... i agree that the first 2:50 of "SSR" is blah, but the last 90 seconds of it are one of the few times on TT you actually hear the energy of the first three albums come to the surface.

I've never quite understood why some fans rate Westing so highly... it's a solid EP, they're all good songs, but beyond that...(?)

it's obviously not as good as the first three official albums but it sure is fun to hear the band in its embryonic form, hear SM's earliest/noisiest ideas, hear them at their most DIY, imagine them doing this weird-ass shit at Gary's house, etc. no different than hearing any other great band's early stuff.

but imo if you're inclined to include Westing in an album ranking, you need to strip it back to the individual EPs on their own, which means you also have to consider Watery Domestic.

Oh wait, I'm totally messed up... I mean the EP that came after S&E, what's it called?

(Yeah, Westing is great, but I wouldn't "rank" it among their albums, it's kind of its own thing)

Watery, Domestic is the EP I meant

I always rated TT the lowest but will give it another try with the different sequencing

I love Westing.

8 votes in this poll for "Fillmore Jive"! That's interesting. That's like "the first really bad Pavement song" to my ears, chronologically. I listened to this album on repeat the weekend I got it and I said to my friend, biggest Pavement fan in the world, "the last song on the album sucks so much. They shouldn't let the other guy sing." She said "that's SM singing," and I said it can't be, it sounds nothing like him, and she insisted that it was. I don't like that song. In general this might be my least-favourite Pavement album!

I need to hear the Godrich sequence of Terror Twilight. I need to listen to Sea Change again, too.

it's definitely SM singing Fillmore Jive. are you thinking of "Hit the Plane Down"?

Those Fillmore lyrics are improvised right?

jaspar's skinnr arhms

No, I'm thinking of "Fillmore Jive". I hate it. I don't like the lyric. It doesn't sound like SM singing to me. It sounds like the theme song to Nicole Byer's podcast except not-fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nfL7tMV1bc

MALKMUS: There’s one song on there, called “Heaven Is A Truck,” that was not recorded with Mark [Venezia]. That was recorded at another place. We did a song for No Alternative, which was a compilation benefit for HIV, and we had some extra time, and we did that song there and added it to the album. Also, the intro to “Fillmore Jive” was taken from Gary’s studio. That was something where I was doing a Frogs pastiche and we added that onto the beginning of that. It was really crazy.

KANNBERG: “Fillmore Jive,” that’s actually two songs put together. I think one was actually recorded at Gary’s studio, the very end part. And the beginning part was recorded at Mark’s. And those were kind of put together with Band-Aids. It’s amazing that the record actually sounds good.

https://www.stereogum.com/1629101/the-oral-history-of-pavements-crooked-rain-crooked-rain/interviews/oral-history/

Here's the full recording that the intro of "Fillmore Jive" was snipped from (which happens @1m30s):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg_SF4LfMz0

I assume Malk’s memory is correct, and that intro part was recorded at Gary’s?

(i’ve never liked this song much either, fwiw)

whatever still sounds way more ween "don't get 2 close (2 my fantasy)" than the frogs (on your radio 2night!)

If I were to "fix" Side 2 of this album, using roughly contemporaneous songs, it might look something like this:

Gold Soundz
Heaven Is a Truck
Nail Clinic
Hands Off the Bayou
Strings of Nashville
All My Friends

All My Friends would be a great closer

Gold Soundz
Range Life
Raft
Brink of the Clouds
All My Friends

Nail Clinic is one of my all-time favorite Pavement songs.

fillmore jive is the perfect closer, wtf

fgti, do you like the music of neil young?

I assume Malk’s memory is correct, and that intro part was recorded at Gary’s?

Yeah, it's definitely the intro that was a separate song, not the very end. LA's Desert Origins liner notes say "Dark Ages" was recorded was recorded at Random Falls with Mark, but if Malkmus and Scott both think part of "Fillmore Jive" was recorded at Gary's, I'm guessing the liner notes are wrong

Agree that Fillmore Jive is the perfect closer.

Well in those quotes, Scott said "the beginning part" (i.e., the part taken from "Dark Ages") "was recorded at Mark’s" – so maybe he's actually the one remembering correctly(?)

(if both he and the liner notes say that, leaving Steve as the only one who thinks they recorded it at Gary's)

@ voodoo yes ofc, near fanaticism for Neil Young. Fan of Gary-era Pavement too. I need to re listen to the latter Pavement albums, it's been a while

"Dark Ages" was recorded in Linden at Gary's rebuilt studio (Louder Thank You Think mk II). Bryce was able to clean it up and stitch it as the intro to "Fillmore Jive".

xp ah ok, only asked because “fillmore jive” strikes me as extremely crazy horse-y

"fillmore jive" rules and is a perfect closer, feels unusually 'epic' for them. the real dud on this album is "hit the plane down"

watery, domestic is a perfect ep and the best thing they ever released

otm across the board ^

if i had to take one disc to the desert island with me, though, it'd be one of the first three full-lengths

the real dud on this album is "hit the plane down"

otm. although it does make the arrival of fillmore jive even more welcome

Fillmore Jive is wonderful, Hit The Plane Down is OK.

Is controps still a thing around here? I've never really liked Cut Your Hair. Does that count?

watery, domestic is a perfect ep and the best thing they ever released

Frontwards might be SM's greatest achievement.

See, those are the takes I'm talking about! (I respect them, of course, I just don't share them...)

Watery, Domestic is the core, the heart music of Pavement.

Tt has its share of duds but the highs are high enough to counterbalance them. Is thinking carrot rope is one of the best things pavement did a controversial opinion? My head says it's dumb idea, but my heart can't help but love that silly little ditty.

Agree that Filmore Jive is wonderful and Hit The Plane Down is the one to drop

i wouldn't say "carrot rope" is top tier but it's very good, second best on terror twilight after "spit on a stranger"

I don't really get early Pavement. I listen to Westing and Slanted a fair bit hoping they'll click, and, well they're hard to listen to sonically, the songs aren't really there, and I just don't love the music until CRCR much as I'd like to

Carrot Rope is brilliant.
The Hexx is one of the best things they've ever done.
Major Leagues is genuinely affecting.
Folk Jam is superb. You Are A Light is perfect...
There's very little I don't like about Terror Twilight and if there are any low points I rarely notice them because they're nicely hammocked by high quality stuff

man if you don't dig "Box Elder" or "Perfect Depth" or "Debris Slide" idk what to tell ya, I think those are the height of lofi genius and great songs to boot

(I fully accept that this is a place/time thing, I was one degree removed from them in college growing up in Cville)

sorry *post-college in Indiana AFTER growing up in Cville*

Yeah, might be a time/place thing. I get that stuff like Debris Slide and Forklift are fun tunes of course, but it mostly sounds like a garage band jamming around (which I get is the point because, well, that's what it is). I suppose I just find the sound quality hard to enjoy, and nit really what I cone to this band for

Fillmore Jive is incredible, what's wrong with you people

the hiss and noise is my favorite thing about early Pavement!

well, that's what it is

but that's not what it is! these are fully formed songs cloaked under a layer of hiss and treble and evasion

xxp I think the problem is it’s all too “credible”… It sounds like a band trying to do an “epic jam” without a strong idea of what to do musically (…compare with “Half a Canyon,” on the next album, where they totally nailed it IMO).

… on another level, though, there’s just a subjective question of how certain songs “hit” musically. And most the songs after “Gold Soundz” on Side 2 not only don’t hit for me (“Heaven Is a Truck” is OK), I can’t skip fast enough when, say, “Range Life” comes on. Especially after the glories of Side 1, it’s like – “How could they think this was on the same level??”

“Fillmore Jive” isn’t quite that bad, but it substitutes sloppiness for inspiration. Pavement could be very loose, but weren’t really “sloppy”… it just wasn’t one of their attributes, and they couldn’t spin that straw into gold.

I can’t skip fast enough when, say, “Range Life” comes on

are you freakin kidding me with this omg

best song on the album

may need a deeper explanation of how 'fillmore jive' is 'sloppy' rather than 'loose'

not even going to touch the matter of 'inspiration'

i mean if 'fillmore jive' is 'sloppy' how shall we refer to 'westing'

may need a deeper explanation of how 'fillmore jive' is 'sloppy' rather than 'loose'

Compare w/“Stop Breathin,” which is “loose” but has tension and interest and a through-line… “Fillmore” just feels limp and floppy to me, it doesn’t cohere

okay -- i am not a musician and respect your opinion (plus of course the whole dancing about architecture thing)

but also 'floppy' and 'doesn't cohere' are words that amount to nothing. if you don't like it, that's cool, but

^^

Fair enuff… yeah, it just doesn’t grab me or make me want to keep listening (or feel like it took me anywhere when I do), obviously this isn’t a universal judgment.

But, again, contrast with “Half a Canyon”… tho I guess there must be folks who find that boring and repetitive or whatever.

(I admit saying they lacked inspiration is “unfair” - no pun intended - clearly I have no idea how inspired they were or weren’t… maybe they thought it was a great musical idea… maybe they were inspired by the best hash in the city that night… etc.)

Range life and maybe unfair when you wanna get down: all you need from this album tbh

Okay Newark wilder and elevate me later are good tunes, and 5-4 unity a fun novelty track too

Not there for filmore jive. It's like pavement trying to be radiohead: the worst concept imaginable. I do like the five seconds where sm sings "every night it's straight and narrow" otherwise nah mate, bit of wank ain't it?

smdh.p.

My spittin' too truthful

I also kinda like "heaven is a truck" because it sounds like a lot of the songs on brighten the corners.

Okay maybe I like more of this album than I thought. But half of the songs I can easily do with never hearing again = silence kit, stop breathing, gold soundz (not actually a bad sing, just a cmvery short shelf life), cut your hair, hit the plane down and filmore jive

What song should I teach my next guitar student from this album and why should it be unfair?

oh my god, some of y'all are out of your friggin' minds

this thread has taken an unfortunate turn; steer it directly into the ground

there’s no survi

vors

i do like fillmore jive, it's a good closer, but there's other stuff that was cut that should have been on the album, just like every pavement record.

anyway this is the most otm thing ever said

watery, domestic is a perfect ep and the best thing they ever released

basically a perfect 11 minutes and 27 seconds of music

Anyway, I don't skip anything on this album, I dig it all

There are some very bad opinions here and I admit some of them are mine

I wouldn't say I *hate* Fillmore Jive, but I've never really vibed with it. Something about the melody irritates me. It just sounds very trite. Coupled with the arch lyrics, makes me understand more than anything why people *don't* like Pavement and find them insincere.

Raft & Coolin' by Sound are two S-tier bangers and should have been on the album. CBS might even be my favorite Scott song in the catalogue.

Sorry if I went too hard on “Fillmore Jive”… If I’m expressing a negative opinion, I like to give my reasoning (rather than just say “it sucks”); if only so others have something specific to argue against if they’re telling me I’m full of it(!)

I still invite y’all to imagine a world in which the album ends with “all my friends”… we could live in that world… together

that's how it starts...

xxp don't apologize ... i love "Fillmore Jive" but i also agree that "All My Friends" would be an even better album closer.

The story behind "All My Friends" being cut was that SM felt the melody was a little too close to Sebadoh's "Vampire" so he ended up just taking a snippet of the outro and releasing it as a b-side to Gold Soundz under the title "Exit Theory (Edit)".

I still invite y’all to imagine a world in which the album ends with “all my friends”… we could live in that world… together

― Hippie Ernie (morrisp), Tuesday, March 12, 2024 3:46 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

I'm good thanks. I might come down later

It's good for the "read it fast before the Sunday mass" line but it does sound like Sebadoh

listening to “all my friends” now for the first time in probably 5+ years…I love CRCR the way it is, but I’m team morrisp on this point

I forgot this song was called Sebadoh on an early boot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH3pLG_RTjs

Wow, I forgot that too…

I love “Vampire,” but I don’t think I would’ve made the connection

i totally see it, for sure

Pavement: a variety of bands in one band

I guess Malk was so hyper-conscious of "recycling" at that time that he felt the need to (alt-)title a song "Ell Ess Two" (would *anyone* have noticed it uses the same chords as "Loretta's Scars"?)

I didn't notice that until I saw the "working titles" in the liner notes, after listening to the album 4-5 times

I guess this is the CRCR thread, but I listened to the new remaster/new sequence of Terror Twilight over lunch. It’s such a strange fun album!!

Godrich is having more fun than ever before or since, acting as Roxy Music’s Eno. The way the guitars feed through an H909 endlessly to the middle of the stereo field on The Hexx is so inspired and amazing

I can’t tell if Malkmus’s lyrics have gone from skewing-slack to skewing-arch— the opening lyric of Shady Lane from BTC already feels light years away from the bleah-bleah-bleah on Our Singer, so this isn’t particular to this album— and so many couplets on TT are admirable and beautiful, but he feels closer in tone to a future Matthew Friedberger than he does to his younger self. The vocal mic choice is a big change, too, he “sounds good” which is a weird and perhaps less-effective choice for his style

Great album tho, 10/10

Oh and Spit On A Stranger was always a good opening track but it’s a GREAT closing track, love the new sequence

I love The Hexx. I'd say top 5 Pave song for me

And the new sequence does make more sense and presents TT as the adventurous "prog" album it wants to be

Only just learned that it was Spit On A Stranger released as the single outside the US whereas we got Carrot Rope, which sounds much more like a pop single to me

My questionable opinion is that Spit and Carrot should have been a non LP double A-side single, so that TT could be a darker psych rock album

I also prefer this live version of Carrot to the album one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7rw07n6gcg

oof the other band members can barely play that

wow ... never seen that video and *never* seen the band in that configuration, with Spiral behind SM on keys and ... who is that playing guitar in the Batman shirt and standing in Spiral's usual spot?

admittedly my memory is not what it once was but i don't remember them ever bringing an extra person on tour until Rebecca in the past couple of years? was this a one-off for a TV show?

That is their guitar tech Andy Dimmack in the video playing 2nd guitar.

admittedly my memory is not what it once was but i don't remember them ever bringing an extra person on tour until Rebecca in the past couple of years? was this a one-off for a TV show?

Pavement was briefly a 6 piece with 3 guitarists (Rob Chamberlin) in the Slanted era but Rob left (!) to start his own band (Sugartime) who put out a couple good singles. Rob was an old buddy of Steve and DCB's from the Ectoslavia/UVA days.

Right, good info, thanks. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of an established band bringing along extra members to help play/sing all the stuff as the arrangements and budgets get a bit bigger. I've been intently paying attn to this band for 30 years and I don't remember ever seeing Andy's face!

Yeah, that video (and the configuration) was a new one for me too...

I might have gone too hard on my hot takes earlier. I listened to the album again with the dog at the beach and it holds up well, but I do still think this is the least interesting album by pavement. Too sentimental at parts, too "MTV" at others. But the least interesting pavement album is still a great album and I enjoyed listening to it. I will underline my filmore jive is pavementxradiohead opinion though.

Fgti so otm about TT, but i can't stand "our singer" slander. That's a perfect closer and a perfect "young man's yearning" song. Yeah whatever, the theme might be juvenile, but juveniles need music too and that's some of the best of it.

Oh no, perhaps I wasn’t communicating well: I LOVE Our Singer. “Bleah-bleah-bleah” was meant to be a compliment

fillmore jive does not resemble radiohead in any way shape or form, i am sorry

Xp Thanks for clarifying, I had all systems ready to go for defence. That's a top 10 pavement song to me

You are a light bridge/outro so damn good
"Button the strippers and quarantine nippers" best sm lyric

Agree to disagree voodoo. First minute? Sure, not radiohead, but not great. Next section? pavement does the pablo honey/ proto-the-bends, but worse. I also think it's got some of the worst soloing sm ever put down.

I'll lay off the filmore negativity now. For anyone that loves it, all the power to you.

the intro—slowly strummed upper-extended guitar chords—could literally be anything

the soloing and fuzzy guitar sounds like the soloing and fuzzy guitar from…”silence kit” and “cut your hair,” which i guess are both songs you said you also don’t like so idk if we will ever approach this album or band the same way

that "Carrot Rope" video up there is, i think, the clearest visual evidence i've ever seen of the dynamic that ultimately led to the end of Pavement: that SM could always play + was improving + wanted to chase new ambitions, and 10 years is a long time for a guy who can play to play with guys who can't really play.

What's crazy is that (tylerw will back me up on this) prior to TT, SM did 2 tiny solo shows in LA while he was workshopping the TT material (you can get an idea on the TT bonus tracks) and my opinion was that the material was quite strong and brought me back in the fold after my attention had faded quite a bit after BTC.

Then there were rumors swirling that the recording was not going good at the various studios they'd attempted... and then when TT eventually came out, it was a bit inferior/different to what the SM solo shows had hinted at.

8/12/98
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzYTDOeMb7U

8/13/98
https://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/717032058604732417/stephen-malkmus-mr-t

Elevate Me Later reminds me to The Classical