EMP 2008 Pop Conference

(Eric's address being EricW @ empsfm. org)

I was just about to post this. Thanks!

The deadline's earlier this year, I see.

don't miss my presentation: "I Like The New Deerhoof Record...Pretty Much Anyway, Except for Song 8 Kinda Bugs Me"

Science Fiction Museum and Hall of Fame?!?!?

WHAT?!?! THIS IS IN SEATTLE?

Oh it's part of the EMP. When did this open? And C.L. Moore, but no Henry Kuttner! CRIME!

It's been there for some years. One of the regular lecture halls for the conference has a Blade Runner spinner hanging over the stairway entrance.

Screw the movie part of this. I wish this was all about the writers.

That's what Bloodhag is for

In honor of this year's conference:

Songs about revolution

So anyway (prompted by Eric's separate thread, now redirected here). I've figured out a title, now to figure out an actual proposal...

Heh. I've referents and source material, no proposal.

Let's make not much money.

Deadline is tomorrow, folks.

If nobody does a thing about Stop Snitchin' I'll eat my hat.

You should pitch!

Sent my proposal in this afternoon.

"Albert Ayler Needs to Stop Snitchin"

Actually, mine's about Colombian death metal bands.

awesome

I know a guy in a Columbian death metal band! I will be interested to find out more.

this was too early for me. i forgot all about it. not that i had any bright ideas, but still, when has that ever stopped me.

Sent!

what's your proposal rev??

LA riots -> LA rap

(I seriously doubt I'll be accepted, but I might as well try, right?)

Proposal for:

We Had to Tear This Mutha Up: Anger and Hedonism in the Wake of the L.A. Riots
by Rodn3y J. Gr33n3

People attend to be lectured to?

Basically, and to ask Jonathan Lethem dumb questions about Kurt Cobain conspiracies which get falsely attributed to me.

To The Lester, The Xgau, and the Holy Eddy, Amen

Basically, and to ask Jonathan Lethem dumb questions about Kurt Cobain conspiracies which get falsely attributed to me.

-- The Reverend, Tuesday, December 18, 2007 1:17 AM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

you aren't gonna mention this and then not explain it.

RACIST!

Hehe, after Lethem finished his keynote speech, he fielded questions from the audience, included one guy who was all "RACIST!" and Lethem was all "O_o", but xgau defused the situation pretty well. Then he called on some high school kids sitting by the back wall who asked him "What do you think of the theory that Kurt Cobain didn't commit suicide, but was murdered instead", and Lethem was all "o_O" and said he had no opinion whatsoever and was kind of visibly flustered by these dumb questions.

This whole time I was sitting with Alfred and a couple other Stylus types, across the room from everyone else I knew. After the misbegotten Q&A section ended, Matos and Ned and Mackro came up to me all like "Rodney WTF!!!", and I was like "O_o" because I had no idea what they were on about. Apparently, they thought I had asked the Cobain question, but no, it was the kids in the back. What a trip.

rev do you think bush orchestrated 9/11

Why does Bush never want to rock?

I think Bush, the '90s grunge band, orchestrated 9/11.

Aw, here we go...

Opening night great, reception wonderful, Lethem speech v. cool, q&a session afterwards...interesting. Especially the Kurt Cobain question.

-- Ned Raggett, Thursday, April 19, 2007 10:57 PM (Thursday, April 19, 2007 10:57 PM) Bookmark Link

I wanna know if the Cobain guy is going to ask that question at every panel. I thought it must be Richard Lee (Seattle's infamous "Kurt Cobain was murdered" guy), but apparently not.

-- AKA Mr. Jaq, Thursday, April 19, 2007 11:18 PM (Thursday, April 19, 2007 11:18 PM) Bookmark Link

Ned, you were mad wrong for trying to blame the Cobain question on me!

-- The Reverend, Friday, April 20, 2007 1:42 AM (Friday, April 20, 2007 1:42 AM) Bookmark Link

Gwen Stefani: The Real Terrorist!

My planned proposal on Lancelot Link and the Evolution Revolution was doomed to failure.

I support you, Joe.

Rev, I wasn't in the middle of the L.A. Riots, but I was close enough when it happened. If you need perspectives from a dumb college radio white boy in Orange County in April of 1992, I'm your man.

And I'll add similar perspectives from the same general locale (in this case from UCLA).

Anyway, the Rev's proposal had best be accepted dammit. (As should everyone's!)

rev do you think bush orchestrated 9/11

People who don't believe the official whitewash. Lol.

I submitted mine yesterday morning. Good luck to everyone.

Alright. Thanks, Mackro, Ned.

Haha mine is already doomed to ignominious failure, but it got in under the deadline so eff the haterz.

What is yours?

luck, all.

I will only tell in the hopes that Ned & Alf tell theirs: “A Luscious Bitch She Is, True: George Clinton Countering the American Counterrevolution.”

Sweeeet, I'm rooting for you.

Holy Moley, I wanna see that! Yours, too, Rev.

You too, that should be awesome -- my friend Wendy was a high school teacher in South Central and was escorted to her car and out of the neighborhood by her students.

Haha, that's a brilliant idea Matt. :-) Yay!

Mine: "Wide Awake in a World That Sleeps: Reenergizing with VNV Nation"

Let's see how Ned can combine his with mine: "Staring at the Sun: The Larynx of Bono Across the Curriculum."

Best title!

I'm singing that title to Ultra Vivid Scene, who had a song called "The Mercy Seat" (not THAT "Mercy Seat"), which was about S&M, which is seen to be the province of industrial music to a large degree, which VNV Nation is grouped in. Yay.

Panel proposal, then.

If we're not all accepted for this shizz, I quit. Not sure what I'm quitting but still.

i have my own ideas, but i'd be interested in the topic of

* why protest/topical/political/etc music is usually so awful and uninspiring except for the minutemen and "we are the world". maybe there is a thread on that somewhere.

well, my quick answer would be:
* some music is political
* most music is so awful and uninspiring
hence...

A less nerdy answer is: there are lot more great political music groups/artist than we think. We just don't think of them as political groups or artists.

I kind of like "Actually, you're wrong, there is plenty of great protest music, WE are the problem" instead.

But of course I don't have the time to back this boring-ass opinion up yet.

well, the latter comes from the former partially. So yeah, that too.

Actually, you're wrong, there is plenty of great protest music, WE are the problem" instead.

THERE'S A CHERCE WE'RE MAKIN', WE'RE SAVIN HOUR OWN LAHVES.

http://www.bigozine2.com/cdcvrs/images3/BSwegottagetout/BSwegotttagetoutFr.jpg

xp I hear ya, Big Mack.

A less nerdy answer is: there are lot more great political music groups/artist than we think. We just don't think of them as political groups or artists.

Quite. This in part is the focus of my paper (without pretending to have heard everything that could be described with said term, VNV's album this year was easily my favorite politicized release, or at least spoke to me on that level most strongly).

yeah, i am partial to that view. something about music being explicitly political is problematic.

except when it is and i like it

http://www.84tigers.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/04/crass4.jpg

(example of overtly political music that, IMHO, is awesome)

As artdamages says, it depends on the point of view of the listener. The Mexican American community, for example, loves details. Two of my favorite protest music things this year are quite explicit: Los Tigres del Norte's "El Muro" ("The Wall") basically tells Bush "go ahead build your wall, we'll burn it down," and Chingo Bling's whole album They Can't Deport Us All has been targeted by all those crazy Malkin clones for months.

PublicEnemyPics.zip

I fear we have taken this thread into a weird area.

I keep forgetting to seek out that Chingo album.

xpost - do you like weird areas?

if you do, you should come to the Pop Conf, whether you get accepted or not. (then again, not sure how far away you are from Seattle)

I am very far away, and I'm not sure it's going to be all that cool for me to just be like "see ya family". On the other hand, maybe we could all use a vacation that week....

agreed that crass is often. sorry to derail the inside music critic baseball that was intended.

by often i meant awesome or alternately that i often listen to their music

no no dont be all defensive like that artdamages; i was just pointing out that the thread had gone all wonky. but i like wonky, and the discussion is good.

With Ann Powers on the Program Committee hopefully that will mean she won't do a presentation. Her overly simplistic granola feminism take on music has never impressed me. Those of you who are submitting proposals can defend her (if she or her hubby Eric are lurking)!! I wonder if Program Committee members RJ Smith And Ned Sublette are submitting proposals. They've done great stuff in the past.

no no dont be all defensive like that artdamages

thanks. i just know these kinds of threads are usually and for people who are going to or presenting at the conferenceetc.

anyone want to tell me what "combative pop" is?

I'm sure the phrase is intentionally open to interpretation.

>anyone want to tell me what "combative pop" is?

My first thought is Pink. Which reminds me that "Dear Mr. President" is one of the most cringingly awful "political" pop songs in the whole history of man.

Yeah but there's plenty of other stuff, Green Day and the Clash and reggae is one strain, emo is another (I trace it back to the Zombies); Prince/Sly etc. There's TONS of combative pop!

Phil F. says he's in, so start checking your mailboxes!

so is Todd Burns.

They accepted my pitch! The fools -- the mad, mad fools!

And now the great question -- "WHO IS DAD AAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaa...."

Aw shucks, it's no major mystery! My name's Dan Booth. I did the Tower Records tour of America in the early 90s, working a year apiece in Chicago, New Orleans, and Boston, which is where I wound up. I'm an unreformed music junkie. I did a little writing for the Phoenix about ten years ago, and I guess hanging out here over the last year or so gave me the bug again. This EMP thing is something I never would have done if not for this site, and I guess this is as good a place as any to say thanks.

My proposal wasn't accepted, but I will be there.

My proposal wasn't submitted because it wasn't written.

But

...I will be there for all of you.

That's a big nope for me too. Fuckers.

Not in! Oh well, always a pity, but on the flip side, I get to wander and enjoy everything without having to worry about paper prep! :-D

And you'll finally be able to ride the SLUT to Tutta Bella

AW YEAH etc.

I haven't ridden the SLUT yet. : /

Neither have I. In time.

Karaoke on the SLUT?

That's just rude.

Hooray oh wait.

List of Associazione Verace Pizza Napoletana certified Neapolitan pizza places in the U.S.

2 Amys / Washington DC
A16 Restaurant / San Francisco CA
Antica Pizzeria / Marina del Rey CA
Bricks Neapolitan Pizza / Hudson WI
Cafè Porta Alba / Madison WI
Flatbread Community Oven / Boise ID
Fritti Restaurant / Atlanta GA
Il Pizzaiolo / Pittsburgh PA
Il Ritrovo / Sheboygan WI
La Pizza Fresca Ristorante / New York NY
Naples 45 / New York NY
Punch Neapolitan Pizza / St Paul MN
Settebello / Las Vegas NV
Settebello Pizzeria Napoletana / Salt Lake City UT
Spacca Napoli / Chicago IL
The Prospector / Twain Harte CA
Tutta Bella Neapolitan Pizzeria, Columbia City / Seattle WA
Tutta Bella Neapolitan Pizzeria, Stone Way / Seattle WA
Vero Amore / Tucson AZ
Via Tribunali / Seattle WA

No mention of the Westlake Tutta Bella, so probably not a complete list but dayam, Seattle is all over my naples.

anyway, music.

Hey Mr. DJ

My proposal on the Jefferson Airplane wasn't accepted, to the betterment of the EMP.

But I will be there for the conference. Eager to see a bunch of youse.

Will be great to see you again Joseph! Your Monkees piece was great.

my presentation on the staple singers' lp 'freedom highway'* was accepted, so yayyy! i totally would have been there anyway of course, since it's just a few hours' ride and to be honest i like the conference more and more each year.

i'll have YETI 5s with me: featuring among a few other things scott seward's amazing EMP paper from '06, and my own presentation on blind willie johnson's "dark was the night" from last year, and hopefully ned r's great take on disco inferno (but i really want it to accompany music from the band on the cd and i've not heard back from those people yet, unfortunately, damn). anyway, those issues'll be out just in time for sxsw, which i'll also be at. all our books for the year are fall titles so i won't have any of those with me, not yet...

i was about to suggest that all those hanging around seattle on sunday afternoon go on a fremont sunday ice cream cruise on this cool old boat that tools around the lake. it's really close to the seattle center and is a fun trip -- but it looks like they've lost their parking spot, bummerrrr!: http://www.seattleferryservice.com/

* for any staples geeks/ whoever cares: my presentation is on the lp, not the cd -- the cd version of 'fredom highway' weirdly only includes two tracks from the album. which is weird 'cause it's this totally riveting record made live in a church on the south side of chicago in the midst of some riots, just a few months after dr. king's march from selma to montgomery. it's the raddest single example of the role that gospel played in the civil rights movement that i have found. (well, nothing comes close to same cooke's "change is gonna come," of course -- but that's what i call secular gospel).

in the interim, i hope to find out more about the staples' role in civil rights aside from their recordings, to find out which rallies they played at and etc. maybe this will happen while i'm doing research at the schomburg center in harlem early next month? i dunno.

it looks like the guy who produced the album is still alive so hopefully i can track him down and maybe do a phoner! his name's billy sherrill and is otherwise known for his super slick nashville country, some of which is awesome. he collaborated with george jones a lot, and i guess he's best known for not only producing artists but also writing/ co-writing songs with them? anyway, i really hope to be able to talk with him about it. since it looks like he didn't do anything else like it, and considering how charged those times were, i'm guessing he has a few clear recollections about the experience despite it being 43 years ago.

hopefully ned r's great take on disco inferno (but i really want it to accompany music from the band on the cd and i've not heard back from those people yet, unfortunately, damn)

Ack! Well hopefully they'll come through. (Also, it's great to see someone else in this time zone being as sleepless as I!)

i don't have to get up in the AM though -- you a'ight and stuff?

i was just about to write you ned, as this seems a lame way to tell you this. ohh well, it's done -- worst scenario it makes it into a later YETI -- we're gonna do two a year instead of one every two years now.

also with the help of the genius behind the wfmu website we're about to launch an *actual* website and it could go there as well, if you're down with that???

ctrl-f mondeo

Matt and Rodney wuz robbed! Again.

I was rejected but will be there anyway.

Mike McG, I'm glad you'll be there, I don't think I've seen you more than once since your Terrastock I birthday. My parents were active in the civil rights movement in Chicago. Do you want to talk with them for research?

dan -- ohh, it's you! awesomess. it will be great to see you as well / catch up. we'll need to play another round of Rock Scrabble, no?

please please please email me with your and your brother's email/ contact info. i sent gene a copy of my 'loveless' book but never heard back -- am afraid i had the wrong address? anyway, and yeah it would be good to talk to your folks -- they're major, as i'm sure you know...

Email coming up. Rock Scrabble, definitely! I'll bring my board. Open invitation to all parties - it's like Scrabble but with double points for music terms.

This I will consider.

I'm out; oh well.

KARAOKE FOR EVERYONE

We need someone to rep for ILX!

ILX </rep>

My proposal, "Surfing in Babylon: Troping the Heck out of an Ancient Civilization", was roundly turned down. I'll keep working on it, though, it'd probably kill at church. Especially if I rock some Celtic Frost!

Anyone else here get the nod or was it just Phil, Mike and Dan?

Will be great to see you again Joseph! Your Monkees piece was great.

Thanks! I really appreciate that. (I don't recognize your handle, though!)

(Mackro = Br1an M.)

Ahhh - thank you.

I'm gonna be there talking about "The Ballad of the Green Berets" and various responses to it from the Left and Right, in the U.S. and overseas.

That sounds really cool.

I'll check that out! Especially if you work in a tangent on "Open Letter to My Teenage Son."

Very cool indeed!

Douglas, please show clips of the movie.

Spacca Napoli / Chicago IL

This place is way overrated.

So a month to go and all.

Yoberry FAP

Thurs. afternoon. 3rd and Maroon, two blocks from the Central Library.

Marion, not Maroon.

I'm buying my ticket this week.

I spent 42 seconds trying to figure out where the hell Maroon was before I looked down.

Will be glad to see you again, Alfred, Ned.

I'll be there for all four days (but bailing early on Sunday to see the Mariners). Have bought plane tickets but not booked hotel. I actually started looking through the panel lists the other day to plot out my must-sees.

Just over two weeks to go! I'm getting started for real on my presentation today. (I can't be writing my paper the morning of the thing anymore; I swear for my ELO paper I was working on it as I was still presenting it...)

Um, Mavis Staples rebuffed my interview request, but she's on tour and busy and it's not like this is "for publication." My feelings aren't wounded but they might be singed a bit.

For people staying through until Monday, there'll be a YETI 5 release party at Anne Bonny on Sunday evening and I'm serious, the Rock Lottery at Neumo's looks to be fabulous this year.

I noticed last night that Ned Sublette is appearing at the PSU Library here in Portland the night before EMP starts. I'll be getting my geek engines revved up a little early, then...

I only got my ticket last Friday. Excited!

Hmmm, realized I have to go be a delegate for my county's convention sunday afternoon.

Rev, fight the good fight!

...

If you guys visiting need to see shows...

Neumo's:
http://www.neumos.com/apr08.html

Chop Suey:
http://www.chopsuey.com/apr08.shtml

The Triple Door (click next to April if need be):
http://www.thetripledoor.net/calendar.aspx

The Vera Project (click on Calendar):
http://www.theveraproject.org/

The Funhouse:
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=2386026&blogID=15687222&Mytoken=20050218114111

Sunset Tavern:
http://www.sunsettavern.com/

Tractor Tavern:
http://tractortavern.ypguides.net/page/ntqa/CALENDAR.html

Comet Tavern (turn down volume):
http://www.myspace.com/thecomettavern

El Corazon:
http://www.elcorazonseattle.com/cgi-bin/showinfo.cgi

King Cobra:
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/GetOut?search=music&musicLocation=519960

Probably many other venues I'm forgetting

Rev, fight the good fight!

What he said. Meet us for dinner afterwards, though. (Even though we'll all be zombies at that point.)

are rock crits playing at those venues, Mackro?

Ned Raggett and The Particularly Fine Tendentiousness

Lord Soto and the Victorians.

Mackroniack

I'll be there again, presenting with my partner, and it should be pretty great. Totally excited to be on a panel with J.D. Considine, to whom I think I addressed a dumb question last year. My main goal is to actually see the library this time.

It's worth it.

In fact, looking upthread, Mackro had suggested:

Yoberry FAP

Thurs. afternoon. 3rd and Marion, two blocks from the Central Library.

Google Maps

Yelp page for Yoberry

See folks there, then. (Whenever then is, need to check my flight.)

is there alcohol?

Yes, there's Original, Dragonfruit, and Alcohol Yoberry.

We should mark EMP panels as Useful, Funny, or Cool.

One week to go!

Regrettably, I will not be attending this year...real life intrudes.

well, it's just days before the inaugural, so here's my list of How-to-get-here-from-the-airport-and-back type stuff for those who are or choose to be car-less:

Light rail's almost done but not there unfortunately.. so until '09 or '10, the cheapest option is the bus via King County Metro.

Here's KCMetro's Trip Planner page. Proceed.
* Enter "SEATAC" as the starting point.
* Enter your hotel or the EMP address "325 5th Ave N" as the destination. (You might be asked to clarify which "5th Ave". Choose "5th Ave N in Seattle". The "N" i.e. North is important.)

You should get the proper list of itineraries as a result. The fare should be $1.50 (*always take the transfer*).. $1.75 if it's rush hour.

If you forget about the Trip Planner:
* you want to go out to the bus bays to the right of 1st level baggage claim, and wait at the one which specifies 194 Seattle Bound. (Don't take the 194 in the opposite direction.) It runs every 15-30 minutes between 6am and 9pm weekdays. Outside that time, there's the all-night 174 Seattle Bound which takes a little longer, and will likely provide you with many interesting bus stories. Just don't be impatient and hop on a 174 before 9pm on a weeknight.

(* Mnemonic idea if you are a Wire fan: 154... 174... 194!)

The bus tunnel is back, by the way. Both Sea-tac departing buses use the tunnel until 7pm.

Both buses run on Sunday but not as often and not in the bus tunnel, so make sure you note this if you're heading out on Sunday. In downtown, you can catch a 194 (or 174) from Seattle to Sea-Tac on 2nd Ave.

...

Or you could take a cab. Or maybe you're staying in a Downtowner-friendly hotel, whose shuttle bus is around $10 or so. (I've never used it.) This all depends on how much in a hurry you are.

Hope this helps! If KCMetro's site doesn't answer your questions, send them here. I've used KC Metro for many years at this point.

The bus tunnel is back, by the way.

A massive frickin' relief right there. When's the light rail from downtown to airport due for completion again?

"2009". This probably means 11:59pm Dec 31st, 2009. But it might be sooner.

I guess I should tell my boss that I need two days off this week.

Might not hurt.

hey boss i has bad snifflez

I'm happy because I was in Seattle a few days back and saw the SLUT for the first time!

maybe that should have went on the Seattle thread

Too late now.

SLUT sightings are going to be much higher this year, it must be said.

I thought we'd get away with a quiet weekend for shows, but I was wrong.

Just around the corner, literally, from the EMP, this is happening at the Vera Project Friday night (http://www.theveraproject.org):

7:30 PM
Iron Lung
Yellow Swans (last Seattle show ever!)
Sissy Spacek
Blue Sabbath Black Cheer
$8 ($7 w/ club card)

Tickets through Ticketweb or day of, unless it sells out.

And yes, the Yellow Swans set will be the very last show ever in the city of Seattle.

Iron Lung will be playing, but only Texas Hold'Em with select members of the audiences. No instruments.

RAWK

Meantime, something that night for the comix folks among us -- and the musical types too:

---

Please join us at Fantagraphics Bookstore & Gallery this Saturday, April 12, from 6:00 to 9:00 PM for an extraordinary event featuring Fantagraphics Books’ resident genius Martin Bland. Bonus! This Friday, Saturday, and Sunday we’re hosting a huge Spring Cleaning Sale with hundreds of lovely Fantagraphics Books offered at 50% off cover price.

Martin Bland’s Randomized Control Trials represents a radical departure from this veteran musician’s previous work. His experimental sound installation features contributions from Fantagraphics alums Mark Arm and Tom price, joined by accomplished musicians from various musical genres. The concept defies simple description – you sort of have to experience this piece to fully appreciate it. Learn more here:

http://martinblandsrct.blogspot.com/2008/03/cds-for-sale.html

This event coincides the colorful Georgetown Second Saturday Art Attack featuring art exhibitions, musical performances and more at 30 locations throughout the neighborhood.

We’ll also have pallets of popular titles by artists like Peter Bagge, Charles Burns, Daniel Clowes, R. Crumb, Ellen Forney, Gilbert and Jaime Hernandez, Tony Millionaire, Charles M. Schulz, Joe Sacco, Chris Ware, Jim Woodring and dozens more – at half price! All day Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, April 11 - 13. You’ll also get a chance to view our current display of exquisite illustrations and comics by the incomparable Drew Friedman.

Fantagraphics Bookstore is located at 1201 S. Vale Street (at the corner of Airport Way S.), only minutes south of downtown Seattle. We’re open every day 11:30 to 8:00 PM, Sundays until 5:00 PM. Phone 206.658.0110. Hope to see you all soon.

DECISIONS

Choices choices. (Drop me a line re: when you'll be in town again on Thursday A.S.)

There's also Broken Disco at Chop Suey Fri. night too for teknoheads.

Ned, check yr email.

the East Los Angeles scene are the primary focus as they created a local/regional Mod dance to Thee Midniters’ Rock ‘n’ Roll hit, “Whittier Boulevard"

You all have to learn how to dance 1960s East LA style at that presentation

Has anyone else been given a vague message upon registration that he or she wasn't sure if he will be registered to attend the conference?

I just received that e-mail today. ??

Might have been a glitch -- I got that but also a separate message indicating I was fine for Friday to Sunday but that Thursday I might have to do standing room only.

OK, i called and here's the deal:

This Pop Conf has a record amount of pre-registration. As far as Fri through Sunday, there's no doubt you can register as you enter and see all the panels & presentations and all that. *However*, the Thursday night key note speech and the Blue Scholars performance are anticipated to be full.. Those two things are apparently super popular and the main reason many have pre-registered. So the upshot is: You may have to stand on Thursday night if you get there after 6:30pm, and you may not be able to see the Blue Scholars. Shrug. there you go.

Roxor. Mackro, send me the details re: bus station stop/YoBerry again plz? (Or post it here, whatever works.)

OK, bus tunnel station near where i work = Pioneer Square Station / 3rd between James and Cherry / exit onto 3rd St.

I work on Columbia and 3rd, one block or so north

Yoberry is on Marion and 3rd and closes at 4pm. Another block north.

Point of reference: Central Library is Madison and 4th. Another block north and one east.

http://transit.metrokc.gov/cftemplates/show_map.cfm?BUS_ROUTE=194&DAY_NAV=WSU

My flight is with American, so I will probably not make it for the keynote, grr.

Ugh. :-/ I was wondering if anyone was going to be caught up in that.

Jen and I appeared on the latest edition of the Randomized Control Trials! To this end I suggest everyone in town attend Martin's performance.

Grrr. I'm missing this again. Sometime I will finally see Ned Sublette talk about Cuba and New Orleans. Lots of other interesting looking presentations as well.

In town, y'all. See who I can tonight!

Had to watch my nephew today so I'm not gonna be up there until tomorrow AM. Bummed to miss the intro. hanging out and the opening presentation thing tonight -- I really wanted to shake a Los Lobo hand as I love those guys -- but I'm psyched to jump in head first tomorrow!

Is there a Muslimgauze paper at every one of these?

attempting a liveblog at nedraggett.wordpress.com

Very nice.

Thanks -- and Ned S. sez hi!

YAHHH!!! NED YAHHH!!!

Oh and if Nick is reading this, it's "Noche de Enierro" by Luny Tunes.

*Entierro

I should learn to read. I thought this was an EPMD thread.

Oh dear.

Anyway, that keynote panel as I haphazardly saw it

thanks rev

My Friday liveblogging will be here.

I AM POSTING FROM INSIDE THE CONFERENCE

So am I but liveblogging is on hold on my end -- connection's been flaky via the blog, which is odd since last night was no problem. Am taking notes though -- David Novak on Sublime Frequencies was a great start.

You folks gonna go see Christgau's presentation on John Mayer's "Waiting for the World to Change"?

Caught a lot of it. Lots of good lines.

Okay -- Friday presentations as I caught them.

The walking dead feeling is starting to creep over me. Must be Saturday morning. (By tomorrow morning at this time we will all be the walking dead here.)

Speak for yerself.

Mr. Jaq and I will be heading down to the Fantagraphics thing late afternoon today, will have room for 2 additional if anyone's interested. I won't be heading to EMP until 1ish, to catch Douglas Wolk's Green Beret talk, but catch up with me then or let Mr. Jaq know if you spot him.

Saturday panel/presentation notes

notes from KEXP's Chris Estey:

http://depts.washington.edu/kexp/blog/?p=5502

Including this:

This was followed by a complete mind-screw of a presentation by Jesse Fuchs, a computer game whiz kid who when he dabbles in music writing has a tendency to mess up our nerves a thousand ways. Using a magnificent Power Point presentation of very wacky and funny visual puns, “The Record That Eats Itself: Form, Content, and Subversive Recursion” combined Escher prints, Godel mathematics, They Might be Giants, and I can’t remember what else in an insanely paced and coded demonstration that nothing is as it seems. If the EMP Pop Con charged anything (it is ABSOLUTELY FREE), this would be worth the whole four days’ fee to get in. Fuchs got a hold of a recording, an answering machine hoax perpetrated by someone pretending to be Robert Christgau, calling up TMBG and warning them to give up or he would stop them, and then seeing as the final image Christgau’s own Escher-design-style reclining felines . “Hey, those are my cats!’ Christgau shouted, seated behind us, raising the presentation to an even deeper level of weirdness.

Can't believe it's already come & gone. Every year I say "next year..."

It's still going duder.

Ends today i thought?

True but at the time of your post I was still attending panels!

<A HREF="http://nedraggett.wordpress.com/2008/04/14/emp-2008-pop-conference-sunday-panels-and-presentations/";>Sunday panel/presentation thoughts</A>.

Bah.

Said thoughts.

Daily Swarm Gets Real Classy

Well remove the CL in Classy

Welcome to Web 2.5

best comment: "Actually, the only thing wrong with any of the above, is that Peter Scholtes speaks about Minneapolis/St. Paul without bring up one of the best bands ever to come out of the Twin Cities, The 'Mats."

I actually thought that Daily Swarm thing was a little funny.

I'm home! Exhausted!

"xgau maybe too on balance" -- how so ned?

Let me answer this when I have coherence. Yay home rah.

Went to a brilliant reading tonight by Molly Priesmeyer and other friends at the Loft in Minneapolis so that I could continue the EMP fantasy of life as this ongoing salon.

I'll eventually have more to say than this, but for now, just THANK YOU to everyone who shared their papers, their questions, their opinions, their food and booze, their homes, their smiles, their rides, their music. It was an amazing several days.

PS: Interested in more reactions to the Jesse Fuchs performance that I missed.

What do you attendees think of the mixture of critical and positive commentary at this site(found via googling)--

http://seattlest.com/2008/04/13/emp_pop_confere.php

The most important thing we brought away from the EMP Pop Conference was the name Labi Siffre, along with a link to the English musician's blog, Into The Light. This was the fruit of a moving, well-researched presentation from Charles Aaron, music editor at Spin, and we can't wait to dive deeper into Siffre's poetry and musical catalog from the 70s and 80s. Aside from that presentation and a few from the "Liminal Soul" panel, we were underwhelmed by the Conference.

For the most part, the presenters were reading directly from their papers on topics they're currently researching and clicking along on a Powerpoint presentation (usually out of sync and with some difficulty). The technology generally hindered rather than enhanced, though we did see some cool Youtube videos

In brief, I'd say that's a luck-of-the-draw assessment -- it's no secret that some presenters are real performers on-stage while others are fairly dry, while PowerPoint is its own cross to bear depending. If there was just one set of panels after another that'd be one thing but since anybody can only see a quarter of the conference at most, two people could come away with very different perceptions based on what they saw. (Heck, this was the first I'd heard about Aaron's presentation in particular, and sounds like it was a winner.)

Am still reviewing my posts and editing them to provide links to the presenters and to their subjects.

Aaron was excellent and a marked contrast to a few of the, shall we say, drier presentations.

OK, now that I've time to unreel from this past weekend, I'm now just starting to unpack it all.

EMP Pop Conf 2008 was just as fun, intense, galvanizing as the previous ones. I was hoping that, with the more serious theme, that there would be a "next level" thing happening. That didn't happen. I can't FULLY explain why I didn't feel that happening just yet, but I know it didn't. Par for the course is better than a bogey, I guess. I'll try to explain anyway.

I noticed a couple of things though: one that was an improvement on previous conferences and one that was a dearth. The improvement was the overall quality of the presentations. Yes, people should hopefully now know not to depend on the internet working to get their youtube links fired up (PSSST www.downloadyoutubevideos.com + AVS Movie Converter.) OTHERWISE, I think people have wised up a little more than before as far as knowing how and when to skip forward and make their points when time is up. Moreso, I think the moderators were better than they have been in the past -- especially given that many moderators were chosen at the last minute this year due to American Airlines complications.

The ironic dearth: less engagement, less discource, less conflict. I think people were more AFRAID to say anything during the q&a's this year than before. Then again, it's safe to say most of the conference attendees this year were pretty much on the same side of the political spectrum, so there was less to argue against.

BUT I noticed this during one of the more benign panels. Some guy in a Social Distortion T-shirt said at the end of a Clash presentation "Who cares about The Clash?" That's when about two dozen people raised their hands to ask the *presenters* questions. That Social D guy successfully did what was needed. He actually POKED people. Before that, no one wanted to ask questions. People were more afraid to "poke" this year than before. Why?

Has the Pop Conference hit the threshold of truely fatiguing everybody too early? I realize why there has to be parallel panels, and there's always so many good papers that they're hard to turn down. But maybe making people run around even more than before has just taken the inquisitive nature out of the attendees? Maybe? Still trying to figure this one out, or maybe I'm still unpacking it.

So while I think it was absolutely necessary to try a more serious theme for the Pop Conference this year, and I do mean THIS year, it just didn't pan out as I dreamed it would. I'm not saying we shouldn't try again, but I was hoping for a birdie or eagle this year and ended up with par -- which is great, I had just as much fun as the ones before, but nonetheless I'm slightly disillusioned.

I guess I'm in the minority in being a bit disappointed this year.

I'll eventually have more to say than this, but for now, just THANK YOU to everyone who shared their papers, their questions, their opinions, their food and booze, their homes, their smiles, their rides, their music. It was an amazing several days.

OTM. This was my first year. I had a total blast. Thanks to everyone.

Wait, remind me, did we ever introduce ourselves?

Never got the chance -- I think I saw you down the hall at one point before getting whisked away for another fine meal. I'd just say, "I was the guy with the glasses," but that would eliminate almost no one. Anyway, next time!

who was Mackro?

B. Mackrodonald, if that helps.

oh for god's sake do I feel silly

That's all right. Who were you again?

First wrap-up post -- these are linked back to the overall notes, which have now been cleaned up some and contain as many relevant links as possible to the subjects as well as the authors of the presentations.

i'll try and go next year. i missed you guys. this thread is a constant reminder of how much fun we had last year. and how long ago that seems now.

You were very much missed! But since Yeti 5 came out that meant we could all read your piece from last year in it.

i had fun and i didn't even go to the conference
it was great to meet you ned. it was great to meet you alfred

Likewise!

I raise my glass!

good times had by all

wait what you weren't even there

oh sorry i thought this was the ancient disaster thread

Give it time.

ok, now for some good old fashioned Pop Conf gossip..

so, apparently, Leonard's piece on Muslimgauze was "apologist"? Someone said that to him in the Q&A? I missed the Q&A, wandering over to the Latino Queer/Morrissey panel after the Muslimgauze piece. But Leonard's piece seemed to be objective, dare I say, the most not-so-endearing-to-Bryn paper/piece/thing I've ever encountered to date. Boggled.

Completely agreed. If it was apologist, it was in Leonard feeling as if he had to apologize for his liking of the music given his own uneasy feelings about Jones.

http://offbeatpoplife.blogspot.com/2008/04/emp-conference-notebook-dump-pt-2.html Alex Rawls from New Orleans' Offbeat magazine

Way way xpost: Good to meet you, Joseph!

Yeah, what Rickey said. And it was lovely to see everyone, and meet new folks also.

A final thoughts post. Time to start thinking about other things!

My google blog alert showed that a few others blogged about this further. Will post later if I see something especially interesting. Years back, the NY Times wrote about the event, but the novelty seems to have worn off. I did not see any follow-up from Maura and company at Idolator, who had mentioned it when proposals were first being sought. Some year I too will finally make it out there.

Chris M. from Idolator made it out -- great guy!

Def. great meeting you, Joe! Also quite nice seeing Ned, Alfred, whoever else from out of town I'm forgetting.

I get very excited by EMP each year -- I've been to 6 of the 7 -- and this was no exception.

I missed the wrap-up session, wish I'd had more time for hanging out and stuff, but I saw some exceptional presentations and from the sounds of it I missed a lot of great stuff too.

Nabbed at least one amazing piece for the Fall issue of YETI, so that was swell too (since we can't pay $$ the EMP's been a consistent source of cool stuff for us since the second issue with Luc S's brilliant "Birth of the Blues" piece).

Chris M. from Idolator made it out -- great guy!

I heard him on the Sound Opinions podcast talking about CD quality being superior to vinyl quality.

Mike! Mono record player through a mic and out a PA at the Yeti party = genius. Nice clean copy of Physical Graffiti, too.

Chris M wears great blazers.

It was great meeting all of you. Not the greatest slate of panels this year.. but I did think Amy Philips' "Not a Rape Patient, Looking Good Fly Colored Asian: The Semiotics of Sexual Identity and The Occident Vis-à-vis the Wu-Tang Clan" was a major standout. Kudos.

Wau.

I would go to this more often if I could tolerate human company

Ha.

Christgau's been doing some post-EMP blogging. He liked Regina (formerly Gina) Arnold's presentation on less well-known festivals around the time of Woodstock, and he liked his sister's talk.

That post in particular.

someone differs a bit with Alfred re: academics-speak

April 24 posting

http://www.michaeljkramer.net/cr/

I don't know him.

I'm not sure how bemoaning the use of academic jargon adduces my anti-intellectualism.

Yep. Nor am I sure how bemoaning some dense music-critic speak addresses unclear academic jargon.

"'You Say Tomato': An Attempt to Decontextualize the Retrofitting of Academese Into Weblogging Communication Via Message Board Interaction, or, GOT BLOG?!?"

Here's a list of words from (A) Soto's post, (B) Roberta Smith's New York Times article, (C) the Culture Rover post, and (D) various Christgau pieces, since Culture Rover brought him up:

A.

"praxis"
"teleological"
"heteronormative" as in "heteronormative valences"
"valences" as in "heteronormative valences"

B.

"reference" as a verb, rather than "referring to," as in "referencing late capitalism"
"privilege" as a verb, rather than "favor," as in "privileging the male gaze"
"imbricate" as in "Artists 'imbricate' ideological subtexts into their images," rather than "weave"
"practice" as in "Duchamp's practice" or "Picasso's studio practice" rather than "work"

C.

"deploy" as in "deploy words poorly," rather than "use"
"probe" as in "probe the concepts," rather than "make sense of"
"discourses" as in "these same discourses are at work in criticism," rather than "word choices and perspectives" or "conversations" or "the way we think about things"
"embedded" as in "the opinions of arts journalists are embedded in specialized trivia," rather than "grounded"

D.

"meliorist" as in saying "I have a meliorist streak"
"jiving" as in Otis Blue contains "live tracks that preserve for history Redding's country-goes-uptown style of fun--even emoting 'I've Been Loving You Too Long' like his whole future depends on it, he jives a little."
"bumptious" as in "bumptious takeover of Sam Cooke's 'Shake'"
"trancey" as in "Trancey desert guitar patterns are cut by a sour two-sax horn section"
"pungently" as in "On his first major-label album, Carll rocks as needed across a rowdy life-scape he describes pungently ('Pills in the tip jar, blood on the strings')..."

My opinion:

Most of these would probably be unfamiliar to people on the street, at least in the way they are used. But that can't be the standard for rejection--we learn good new words all the time.

For me, the only compelling reason to use a widely unfamiliar word is that it is simply the best, most exact, or descriptive word for something, and that anyone looking it up would feel they've learned something about what you're describing.

Along these lines, Culture Rover (C) shoots himself in the foot somewhat with those examples, because in each case the academic word is vaguer, more pointlessly loaded, or burdened with a meaning that's entirely different ("probe" does not mean "makes sense of").

Same with each one of the words Roberta Smith rightly attacks (B). In each case, the new word is more broadly evocative, and thus in more need of unpacking (there's a good academic word). If you "privilege" something, are you giving it a place of privilege in your own thinking, or granting it something akin to the social privileges of class and race? And in either case, what does that mean exactly?

Of the words Soto dismisses (A), I think the case could be made for "teleological" as good shorthand for anything that smacks of the pursuit of purpose or design in world. As for the rest, I can't find a compelling reason to use "praxis" in place of "practice." "Valence" is poetic only if you're a chemistry major--it's a kind of chemical bond. "Heteronormative" seems useful, but actually muffles the impact of the words you'd use to describe its concept. (You could say the same for "heterosexism," which is even broader, but most people at least know what that word means.) Isn't it more pointed to say that someone endorses a homophobic view of what's normal and what isn't, rather than say that person is being "heteronormative"?

Christgau (D) regularly sends me to the dictionary, but always for good words: "Meliorism" basically means faith in social progress as something real. I knew "jiving" is black English for joking or teasing, and can vaguely infer what this might mean musically without hearing it. "Bumptious" means "presumptuously, obtusely, and often noisily self-assertive." I recognize "trancey" as rock-critic slang shorthand for that which is designed to induce a trance, or anything resembling something so designed, but I imagine I could guess what he meant if IO didn't. I usually hear "pungent" as "strong" before the word "smell," so I take "pungently" as an appropriately poetic variation on "vividly."

I really don't really don't see this as a town-gown battle, in other words. It's a jargon vs. anti-jargon battle.

Of course critics use a specialized vocabulary, but the point is to draw the public in and teach them something, just as you would need to use a few fancy words to describe the workings of the sun or the human body. Anyone who thinks complex ideas can't be expressed in everyday language should read A Brief History of Time. Or, I don't know, any good writer.

Very very well put, Peter -- I feel exactly the same way and you articulated it perfectly.

there's a real exclusionary/ classist angle to this (ab)use of language that I've always been annoyed by.

Thanks for the analysis, Pete. To sum up: it should be clear from my post (if not, it's my fault), and, heck, my published work, that I don't squirm around Big Words; but I always try to keep my audience in my mind, and if form meets content in the snuggest of ways. Hell, it's what I do as an instructor! Orwell's one of my mentors.

*and TO ASSURE that form meets content in the snuggest of ways.

I should add that I actually got a lot out of the EMP presentations that used a lot of academic jargon--but not because of the jargon!

http://www.najp.org/articles/2008/04/emp-iii.html

more christgau

Hey y'all -

I stumbled onto this conversation on the web. Hope it's okay to clarify my post on Culture Rover. My point was not to say viva jargon! The comments of Peter and others here sound right to me: there's a danger of misusing language. My point was that when we critique jargon, is it possible to still explore the ideas that might lurk behind that jargon? Yes, sometimes the jargon is full of sound and fury signifying nothing, but at other times the jargon hints, in its stilted way, at new perspectives and approaches. It shines a light of stangeness across familiar topics. It can get us out of our heads to see (or hear, or just sense in general) things in a new way. In other words, I'm worried that in our (rightful) focus on keeping jargon out of the language that we use, we might be throwing out the intellectual baby with the jargonistic bathwater.

A very cool intellectual historian, Eliot Gorn, once commented (I'm paraphrasing here): "We cultural historians do not 'interrogate' things. We don't trace 'trajectories.' We don't explore the 'terrain.' Those are things the military does." Gorn was suspicious of the way in which cultural historians were using the language of war, slipping into frameworks that distorted culture. Okay, yes, I agree. But it is kind of intriguing, just for a moment, to think about culture through those metaphors (jargoned up as they are).

So I basically agree about policing and limiting jargon, but I don't want to close down the language too much. Can't this also limit and police ideas, keep people from getting outside of the assumptions in which they might feel trapped? Being trapped in this way seems as potentially Orwellian to me as any doublespeak.

Glad to listen more to your ideas and thoughts and comments about all this. Hope it was okay to barge in with my own perspective here.

Best,
Culture Rover (Michael)

Bump a bit (since I don't know if people noticed this). My coherence is rapidly dying today so I have nothing to add beyond the belief that there is a middle ground which is always negotiable in situations like this.

Yep

"Heteronormative" seems useful, but actually muffles the impact of the words you'd use to describe its concept. (You could say the same for "heterosexism," which is even broader, but most people at least know what that word means.) Isn't it more pointed to say that someone endorses a homophobic view of what's normal and what isn't, rather than say that person is being "heteronormative"?

Actually, Pete, "homophobic" and "heteronormative" mean two different things. I can elaborate but I'm not sure you're still reading (or if this is even the proper place for it).

In any event, the question that rarely gets asked in these debates is WHO exactly is getting effected by such jargon? There's rarely an assessment re: the precise damage it's supposedly causing.

And I must reiterate what Culture Rover said in his blog post. Journalists are just as susceptible to these charges as academics. "Jargon-free" does not necessarily mean "easy to read." My love for Xgau is well-known. But even the man himself admits his writing is difficult to wade through. I'm still not 100% certain why he likes Daydream Nation judging purely from his original Consumer Guide entry. And while "kvetch" and "kvell" are hardly jargon per se, his review of KC & The Sunshine Band's Greatest Hits read like a communiqué from Planet Xavion to a suburban Midwest nineteen-year-old who had no clue what those words meant (or even that they were words in the first place - "kvell I" looked like "kvell ONE" to me). Also, he's sprinkled his writing with academic jargon at least as early as using the word "signifier" in his review of Fresh Fruit in Foreign Places (1981).

Oh and check that thread where some ILMers freaked about his Vaughan/Bogan review and claimed he-wasn't- talking-about-the-music even though he was using the "impolite discourse" of rawk inn rawl.

And it ain't just Xgau. I bow to the genius in every sentence of this Scott Seward review:

http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0228,seward,36351,22.html

But you're kidding yourself if you think it goes down easy. In fact, every essay I've read so far in the latest issue of the academic Cinema Journal, for instance, is much easier to understand than Scott's review. And the same goes for Dave Queen's masterful Scorpions discography from Marooned (or many of his threads here - check the Siren vs. Oh No It's Devo one). Or Stewart Voegtlin's stuff for Stylus. Etc. All great. All very difficult.

Finally, I've never read anything academic (not even Spivak) as impenetrable as Meltzer's The Aesthetic of Rock. And I even have a mind as august (and academic!) as Simon Frith to back me up on that one.

ILM wouldn't let me link to ILM in that post for some reason. So voila:

Xgau takes music criticism to a new level

Roxy Music 'Siren' vs 'Oh No, It's Devo'

I don't think anyone's arguing for a Manichean approach to rockcrit. Thanks to respectful demurrals by Carl Wilson and Michael J, Kramer, I've been answering emails for three weeks.

The bottom line: anyone who knows my work and tastes (and what I do to pay the mortgage) can't mistake me for an anti-intellectual. A pedant maybe.

You know-nothing revanchist jingoist. Oh wait.

Thanks for posting, Michael, and I half agree--like I said, good babies in that EMP bathwater.

But jargon is bad by definition. That's why one person's jargon is another person's exact term. When Noam Chomsky spoke at UW in the late '80s, and someone asked him why he didn't use "ruling class" and "capitalist" in his speech, Chomsky said he didn't see the need for Marxist jargon. To the Marxists, Chomsky's use of "elites" was the jargon of an anti-Marxist.

In truth, jargon lies in the ear. The question to ask is: What is being communicated besides simply what is being said? And why? And to what effect?

E.g. if you say "Let's interrogate this discourse," you probably mean:

1.) "Let's talk about this debate"
2.) "I've slogged through a lot of the same shitty postmodern textbooks as you have"
and if you mean this ironically:
3.) "I'm making fun of people that have slogged through these books" or "woe is us"

The precise damage being done is that a lot of smart people have not slogged through those books, often for the perfectly good reason that they're shitty postmodern textbooks, and this (I'm assuming very large) audience either tunes out on impact when they hear this jargon, or has to do the additional mental work of translating what you're saying into English.

By definition, jargon has the opposite effect of poetry or poetic prose: it numbs and clouds where better language makes vivid. Rather than shine the light of strangeness, it casts the pall of routine.

But Pete, what exactly counts as jargon? Do "kvetch" and "kvell" count? I mean, they aren't even English in the first place whereas at the very least "interrogate" and "discourse" are.

One can definitely substitute "a Xgau (or Seward or Queen or Voegtlin or Meltzer) review" for "shitty postmodern textbooks" and make the exact same argument you're making above.

And I've never understood what's so bad about doing additional mental work. If it's smart people we're talking about here, that shouldn't be a problem at all.

And Soto, somewhat hilariously, I didn't understand your last post (well, really, just the second sentence).

I've gotten flak for remarking that there was an awful lot of academic jargon at EMP this year.

Ah! Capice.

x-post

Kevin, if what you're driving at is that "heteronormative" also includes the simple ignorance of any norms outside heterosexuality, isn't that also better put just by saying "ignorance of any norms outside heterosexuality"? I don't see how combining all these different things (including, as I said, homophobic attitudes toward what's normal) into one vague word is an improvement, much less an innovation.

It's as if I decided that we should have a word for how war has become the norm in our time, and peace the deviation, and called this concept "warmalcy." It would actually take me more work to define the coinage over and over again than to just get across what I'm talking about in words that thousands of people have already used before to describe the same thing. But then maybe I'd get less credit for having nothing new to say.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more it kind of pisses me off that this sort of thing is referred to as "theory."

Why not just say "irrational fear of homosexual men and women" instead of "homophobic?"

And was Soto wrong to use "Manichean?" To be honest, I had no clue what it meant. But I looked it up and all is well. Or so I thought...

And fwiw, Theory is extremely unpopular in academia right now.

x-post

And I've never understood what's so bad about doing additional mental work. If it's smart people we're talking about here, that shouldn't be a problem at all.

I hope I make my listeners and readers work. Work is fun. But the work should be worth it: It takes work to see the connections between ideas, to start making connections yourself as you listen or read, hearing ideas come together almost musically. It's work to "get" the subtle things someone is trying to put across (I left a lot between the lines in my EMP talk just because I figured it's best to start with what people most likely don't know, or don't agree about). In the case of a writer such as Christgau, there are also the references and slang and jokes and send-you-to-the-dictionary words I already mentioned.

The kind of work I don't like is the communication equivalent of someone throwing a book on the floor and asking you to pick it up versus someone handing you a book: Sure, I could use the excercise, but fuck you all the same. I get nothing out of the work it takes to translate "interrogate the discourse" to "examine the debate." Whereas even indirectly, Christgau has taught us both something good. "Kvetch" is most definitely English by now, having entered American usage as "complain" through Yiddish, and I'm surprised you haven't heard it. "Kvell" I didn't know until I looked it up, but it seems like a great Yiddishism to me. "Signifier" meanwhile isn't really academic jargon; it might be an academic word, but it means exactly what it is.

I can't defend a bunch of writing I haven't read, so I'll just repeat that I'm against jargon in any setting--oh, sorry, "context"!

Why not just say "irrational fear of homosexual men and women" instead of "homophobic?

Well first of all because that's not what homophobic means, but I've already given you enough to argue with here.

Here's Wiki:

"Homophobia (from Greek homós: one and the same; phóbos: fear, phobia) is a term used to describe irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuals.[3][4][5][6] It can also mean "irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals".[7] Homophobic is the adjective form of this term used to describe the qualities of these characteristics while homophobe is the noun form given as a title to individuals with homophobic characteristics."

And here's Answers.com which Google links to whenever you search a word:

"Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men."

Ok we could probably go back and forth here all night as I have some major problems with what you're saying. I just want to address this for the record:

"Kvetch" is most definitely English by now, having entered American usage as "complain" through Yiddish, and I'm surprised you haven't heard it.

The suburban Midwest nineteen-year-old me had never heard it before which I hope doesn't surprise you. I certainly know the word now. Oddly enough, I've never heard it without "kvell."

Whoops, sorry to read so sloppily, Kevin.

I'd argue that Wikipedia is wrong when it comes to "homophobia" (and on a lot of other words, like "irony"). Leave asside the fact that "discrimination" is used to mean exactly its opposite (a lack of discrimination based on prejudice, "homophobia" is modern slang; it doesn't come from its Greek roots; if it did, it would mean "fear of same." It's a made-up word combining homosexual with phobia, and the way it's commonly used, it encompasses the spectrum of attitudes towards homosexuals that "racism" does when it comes to race, or sexism does when it comes to sex. "Irrational fear" would be last on the list: The common comeback "I'm not homophobic, I just hate gays" is nonsense.

Sorry to go on, obviously words are something I like to argue about...

I can't force anyone to use the words I want, but 95% of the time, I use the term "homobigotry" instead, and stress it so that people realize I'm asserting that word and not the weak colloquialism Pete just called out. I only use "homophobia" if it is literally that, which is far rarer than the former.

ass-ide

ass interface development environment?

Lol I'm def making an ass of myself

I've gotten flak for remarking that there was an awful lot of academic jargon at EMP this year.

-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, May 6, 2008 4:40 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

yes, and frequently divorced from any of the academic rigor with which it is (more usefully) deployed to better effect.

"hegemony" was definitely the word of the weekend.

"neoliberalism"

What I really wanna know is, which if any academic jargon phrases would make the best band name? The Valences? Discourse? (Maybe for a disco group?) The Jargon (pronounced with accent on syllable 2: "Jar-Gone") would be a great name for an alien race that bedevils Doctor Who. "There's been an outbreak of Jargon at EMP."

Did someone say jargon. Then again, we are talking about Dartmouth, as reported on in the Wall Street Journal:

Priya Venkatesan taught English at Dartmouth College. She maintains that some of her students were so unreceptive of "French narrative theory" that it amounted to a hostile working environment. She is also readying lawsuits against her superiors, who she says papered over the harassment, as well as a confessional exposé, which she promises will "name names."

The trauma was so intense that in March Ms. Venkatesan quit Dartmouth and decamped for Northwestern. She declined to comment for this piece, pointing instead to the multiple interviews she conducted with the campus press.

Ms. Venkatesan lectured in freshman composition, intended to introduce undergraduates to the rigors of expository argument. "My students were very bully-ish, very aggressive, and very disrespectful," she told Tyler Brace of the Dartmouth Review. "They'd argue with your ideas." This caused "subversiveness," a principle English professors usually favor.

Ms. Venkatesan's scholarly specialty is "science studies," which, as she wrote in a journal article last year, "teaches that scientific knowledge has suspect access to truth." She continues: "Scientific facts do not correspond to a natural reality but conform to a social construct."

The agenda of Ms. Venkatesan's seminar, then, was to "problematize" technology and the life sciences. Students told me that most of the "problems" owed to her impenetrable lectures and various eruptions when students indicated skepticism of literary theory. She counters that such skepticism was "intolerant of ideas" and "questioned my knowledge in very inappropriate ways."

"neoliberalism"

Ha, don't get me started.

I took Alfred's criticism to mean that while these words may have larger meanings behind them, a lot of people weren't using them that way, but were instead obfuscating their otherwise-understandable ideas, and that this is bad.

The problem seems to me that each term has essentially a moral argument associated with it, and that when someone just throws it out there you'd have to take all day to push back against the premises inherent in the jargon, so it really limits debate.

The agenda of Ms. Venkatesan's seminar, then, was to "problematize" technology and the life sciences.

Poor Northwestern.

Hahaha

Always amazing when the left and right go so far around the bend they meet up again. Sounds like (based admittedly on no direct exposure to her writings) her quasi-progressive critique of science's aspersions to truth would dovetail quite nicely with the recent fundamentalist attack on science.

And it ain't just Xgau. I bow to the genius in every sentence of this Scott Seward review:

http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0228,seward,36351,22.html

Skot (and I as his significant other) got death threats from "Jukies" in response to that review. It really riled some folks. Someone sent me a msg that if I ever set foot in Brooklyn they'd smash my face in the pavement.

holy shit, that first paragraph is hysterical

The second for me:

El-P's rhymes are as wack as a lumberjack swinging an ax made of wax from the ears of Tears for Fears after they drank all the beers and found Britney Spears in arrears for illiciting too many middle-aged leers and hipster sneers. On the other hand, instrumentally, he's good.

Yeah, I haven't read much Scott Seward, but every time someone posts something of his, I find that it's the new best thing ever written. Line Ned posted is definitely a favorite from the El-P piece.

"I'll make ya quake. Scare ya so bad your ass will be Farrah and your drawers will be Cheryl Ladd."

*** *** ***

I suppose the value of academic/technical jargon is that it allows you to pack very complex ideas (and idea sets, ideas about ideas, references, etc.) into small spaces, where they can be played off each other. This assumes an audience familiar with the terminology and its implications, so yeah, it can impede broader communication, but broad-channel communication isn't always the #1 goal. Sometimes you just just want to get the concepts across as efficiently as possible.

Ned beat me to it. EXCELLENT review. The best line that sums up what I like and don't like about the latest El-P.

Like Skinny Puppy made a record and let their plumber sing.

Someone sent me a msg that if I ever set foot in Brooklyn they'd smash my face in the pavement.

Ha ha, I'm imagining the guy furiously text messaging this.

Neoliberalism, neoliberal, neoliberals: know what they mean, can see why they're used, but avoid them myself. They might fall into the category of an ideology that goes nameless in order to pass itself off as "common sense," but conservatives would say the same thing about left-wingers who don't like communism, liberalism, or anti-Americanism as labels. I prefer openly argumentative language, such as "free-market true believers" or "free-market hucksters" or "the self-serving ideology of First World international lenders," etc.

At EMP "neoliberalism" was code for "Clintonism."

Lol I'm def making an ass of myself

No you're not. You're managing to have a humane argument on ILM for which I'm grateful.

Someone sent me a msg that if I ever set foot in Brooklyn they'd smash my face in the pavement.

You've got to be fucking kidding me! So much for the underground.

I understand your point, Pete, but the descriptive phrases you prefer fail to do what the word "neoliberalism" does so effectively: encapsulate a complex set of ideas and historical references into a small space. Neoliberal is (or can be considered) good jargon, because it's much more efficient than a sidebar on the history of economic liberalism.

As a buzzword, though, it plainly sucks. Maybe the difference between academic obfuscation and beat-to-death buzzwords figures in here.

I gotta ask, though, Pete - is your favorite book Madame Bovary? It's mine...

I take Pete for a Portrait of a Lady fan.

Loved Bovary in high school, but what's the connection?

Le mot juste

Flaubert was obsessed with finding it

A blog posting from someone who is on the committee planning the next conference http://swtos.blogspot.com/2008/08/politics-of-race-bodies-on-popular.html

was recently asked to participate on the program committee of a major popular music conference that happens each spring in Seattle. If you know pop music, you know I mean the EMP Conference. Seattle is home to the great Jimi Hendrix and EMP has a great exhibit happening now on Jimi. The program committee selects the upcoming topic and puts the call for papers together. Who attends the conference? A mix of music journalists and academics. And some industry folks and publishers of popular music from A to Z.The conference itself has always struck me as driven by the participation of predominately white driven set and discourse of POP music. It occurs for me as a black female scholar that EMP has been dominated by the musics that powerful groups of white folks like or white critics talk about (Kelefa Sanneh is an exception though he ain't Greg Tate). It has also been about hidden conversations by all us "minority" folk still feeling and perhaps making ourselves others but NOT taking a stand on program committees to say what is usually backroom conversation for blacks only or with a few radical white folks who we trust or who we think are like us -- have no real power in the matter.

The committee is assigned to choose a title in the next few days so the CFP (call for papers) can go out by early Sept. One of the popular titles arising has to do with the EROTICS OF POP. Committee members are talking about how bodies get left out but rarely are they talking specifically about WHOSE bodies are left out and HOW. Right now we are at the generalizing stage. I suggested this title two days ago and some liked it, others did not. For one, it's too long:

Share, Remix, Reuse : Social Media, Music & We the People in 2.0(09)

What was behind my proposition was bringing issues of diversity out without making it explicit -- race, gender, nation, class -- as well as musical and cultural diversity in approaches to music-making. Check out this great video on creativity and video remixes:
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/larry_lessig_says_the_law_is_strangling_creativity.htm

My specialty as a popular music scholar is race, gender and the body. What I have been privy to as a speaker/participant at EMP, what has driven my own concerns about participating has been that I feel white concerns about popular music run the atmosphere and the conversation. It seems inevitable with a critical mass of white journalists and scholars talking about pop.

I notice the committee's conversations seem to already use the term BODIES without politicizing what it means to different audiences and people. The politics of the people of color whose BODIES and VOICES have been consumed, always present, but often disenfranchised by the pop machine seems to always get lost when we don't privilege REAL PEOPLE in our themes and discourses not just their bodies.

So here I am on the program committee and if you've learned something about me from my previous posts -- offending the status quo excites me when I really have the courage to do it. But part of me is withholding what I always wanted to say now that I got a little power. Crazy thing.

So I said it. Black folks already got issues about the way bodies are consumed in popular culture and popular music from hip-hop to McDonald's commercials and jingles. I shared with the committee that I think we must politicize the way people MIX in whatever title we choose and use it as a metaphor about the MIX in music. It's about sounds and people mixing. Not just money and markets on some chart. I shared in my last communication, if we bring the politics of race and gender to the CFP then I'd feel more at home with my participation in EMP as a whole.

The hidden transcripts among some folks of color I've talked since EMP began several years ago, particularly some notables in journalism and academia, is that the issue of race might be a topic of some paper, but not a issue we talk about as people readin'/writing popular music. I also told my compatriots that RACE and WE THE PEOPLE and WEB 2.0 in 2009 is a national tie in for the conference this year. Which is I am considered proposing the following title: WE THE PEOPLE in 2.0(09) : FORMING A MORE PERFECT MUSIC

I also added that the keynote speaker should be someone of color to bend the ear of the conference goers in the direction of race, gender and the body in ways that people of color can and do without trivializing that WE are the ones who often get BOXED IN in conversations of BODY.

I still want Success with the Opposite Ethnicity/Sex/Gender/Nation/Age. I want to shatter the illusion but going to the place that is heard as different, other, or out of place. I want to pull our attention towards the MIX and REMIX of DIFFERENCE. Like...Agree to be Offended and Stay in the Conversation Anyhow!! Kyra
Posted by Kyra D. Gaunt, Ph.D. at 11:15 PM