What Is the Worst Single on New Order's Substance?

As they appear on Substance? "Confusion."

Never, ever liked "State of the Nation" even though I must own about 8 different versions of it.

I'm going with "Thieves Like Us." Never really fond of that one.

Wow, Alex. Really?

"Subculture" is a great song on Low-Life but it's easily the worst track in its Substance incarnation.

"Everything's Gone Green."

You left "Murder" off. I'm sure it's on my version!

I'm not saying it's necessarily a crap song ("Thieves Like Us"), it's just my least favorite of the bunch.

Murder is a b-side, so it's on disc 2 of the cd set

There aren't any crap songs on this album, just favorites and least favorites.

I'm sure it was listed as such, but it was the a-side of the 12", with an instrumental of "Thieves" as the bside, and they were on there.

state of the nation

god i hate "shellshock" so much

"Shellshock" hates your mom so much

but she made it a sandwich ;_;

aw, too bad

not that she cut the crusts off or anything, because she knows "shellshock" doesn't like them...oh well. sigh.

maybe it's not too late for reconciliation?

seriously though those mariachi synth horn blasts from hell must DIE

The lyrics are fucking awesome, though.

Back then I would probably have gone for one of the first two, but I have learned to appreciate them slightly more while "Confusion" still doesn't make much sense. So "Confusion" is the worst one for me.

I always felt close to "Shellshock" cuz it was the closest they came to Miami freestyle, but with 10 times the invention and the wit. The fucking thing never stops. There's a new instrumental or vocal filip every few seconds; it's baroque without being overstuffed.

Confusion is made for breakdancing, Geir. They even made a "how-to" video.

the only thing that doesn't make sense in "Confusion" is the people shouting "CONFUSION"

the instrumental version is awesome though

"State of the Nation." It sounds better today, though.

Soto, while "Shellshock" is indeed jaw-dropping, don't be ripping on Miami freestyle. Trinere's "How Can We Be Wrong" could take "Shellshock" to baroque-not-overstuffed finishing school.

And after countless listens and many perusals of the lyrics, I have no clue what "True Faith" is about.

It's about taking drugs to regain innocence.

It's "Shellshock" obviously.

"State of the Nation" narrowly beats "Shellshock" for this one

Used to hate "Shellshock" but the drum programming etc hit me one day and now I love it. I still don't really like "Everything's Gone Green" especially in the context of the rest of disc 1, although I love it sometimes.

What doesn't really make sense is why they didn't go w/ the original of "Temptation" -- in the context of "Ceremony" and "Everything's..." it would've fit perfectly.

the version of 'confusion' is the worst track.

'state of the nation' is blah but not terrible.

and 'subculture' is awesome here -- waaay better than album version.

My wife commented in the car today that she thought the album version of "Subculture" wasn't as good and had crummy vocals. I like the groove of the album version better--the synthbass octaves--but agree that the vocal is superior on the single.

hmmm maybe 'everything's gone green'

but i think i'll give the honours to 'state of the nation' for the particularly bad vocals

wow and here I was thinking "Subculture" was the obvious answer! And I think "Shellshock" is great.

This is probably the best opportunity to ever say this, but seriously, fuck "Blue Monday."

^ what that guy said

Bernard would agree.

toss up between shellshock and state of the nation, but I find shellshock stuck in my head a lot, and state of the nation never, so it wins (or loses, I guess).

fuck "Blue Monday."

nawwwwwww

W W W R L

Were all these singles?

Yes, they were all singles.

I see the point about that 1987 version of "Confusion," Fredo -- the original Arthur Baker versions are so much better/dirtysexier/breakdancier. The video features that version, BTW, Danny, at least the one I remember, where it shows them all in NYC going to the club to meet Arthur in the booth and watching him play the record for everyone. But honestly, nothing is worse than "State of the Nation" except maybe "Shame of the Nation." SOOOO bad.

Because hutlock is back, I must respond. Yes, "State of the Nation" is indeed the worst single on Substance.

The club was the Funhouse. You also see them going up the ramp to the Paradise Garage.

hutlock is back

RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!

(Of course, it was with him only a few weeks ago that I even BOUGHT Substance, so...)

ah, HENCE the nascent New Order love...

Yes, they were all singles.

Oh bollocks, I had Technique in my head. Of course.

Shellshock, obv.

Damn, guys. I might have to disappear for another few years to get such a reaction...

Does anyone else think of Molly Ringwald/John Cryer/et. al. when they hear "Shellshock," or is that just me?

And I think Alfred mentioned it already, but that intro is absolutely stunning, right down to the panned synth line. I must have replayed that part of the 12" 50 times in a row at one point when I was 14.

Miami freestyle, but with 10 times the invention and the wit

Oh, horseshit.

Hey, I love lots of freestyle -- here it's seawater and palm trees, just part of the environment -- but hearing Sumner's very English plainspeak against those shifting backdrops sounded WAY more exotic than Trinere and Expose. Maybe it's the Cuban in me.

"English plainspeak" basically meaning "having the vocal personality of my socks," New Order generally sounded to me like Latin freestyle (or "Into the Groove," or "Let the Music Play") with 1/10th the sense of energy, life, warmth, movement, imagination, fingernails, and hair. But to each his own. They never sounded especially witty or inventive to me either, but what do I know. (I also can't take part in this poll since I could never tell their songs apart. But I do like Substance okay, honest. I even like their Back To Mine album.)

what do fingernails and hair sound like...?

Crinkly.

New Order is just like Latin Freestyle. So is Section 25's Looking From a Hilltop. Latin Freestyle owes a lot to to those weird factory bands that weren't so inventive. Good thing they added all that warmth, movement and imagination!

here's my copy of Looking From a Hilltop:

http://acuterecords.com/hilltop.jpg

"Everything's Gone Green" is my favorite New Order single, period. It's a pinnacle moment for them, I think. I don't get the hate for it here. I love the intense echo on the vocals.

I like the Low-Life version of "Subculture", but not fond of the "One of these Daaaa-AAAAA-aaaaaaays" single version of "Subculture", so I'll be voting that one.

I'm glad only one has picked on "Thieves Like Us". That's always been a favorite just because it's an outsider single in the collection.

Well, not only that, but "Thieves Like Us" sounds like New Order's reaction to Human League's "Fascination", as does "Murder" sounding like NO's reaction to the Cure's Pornography.

Nice scribbles.

Oh, the only one that does not register is "State" but hey.

I can't even remember what I voted for. Probably "Confusion" but that was more because I was sort of disappointed in it at the time. Too much like other things around. I like it more in retrospect.

not even scrolling, hardly even pausing, it's definitely "Shellshock"

TPK gets my vote - I've always been irritated with the way that they hacked off 40 secs from the end.

I like Confusion, but prefer the original version(s). Ceremony should have been the original 3-piece version, as included on 'Singles'.

Chuck Eddy, I don't think either wittiness or inventiveness is what attracts people to New Order, but I might be wrong. Personally, though, I feel all the energy, life, warmth, movement (ha, coincidentally) and imagination I get from Shannon, etc., only filtered through a bleaker, more Mancunian rainshadow, which arguably makes it more poignant. Although having never heard your socks sing, I can't say for sure. But, erm, yeah, to each his (or her!) own.

Latin Freestyle owes a lot to to those weird factory bands

Not so sure I agree with this, at all, but come to think of it the sad wimpy boys of Latin freestyle -- people like Noel, Coro, Timmy T, Willie and Gil, assuming those guys were all actually Hispanic (Timmy T's last name was Torres and he came from Fresno, which may not be Latin freestyle per se' but it's close enough to count I'd say) -- as opposed to the much tougher gals of Latin freestyle, did seem to owe a lot to sexless Limey hacks, oops I mean excellent gloomy British new wave geniuses, such as for example Depeche Mode. Who no doubt were immersed in Joy Division et. al. from the gitgo. So indirectly, I probably hear a connection.

sexless Limey hacks

This from a writer in the land of puritans!

Wait, you really think New Order are "sexless Limey hacks"?

I'll give you Depeche Mode, though.

I corrected myself! Sort of.

Anyway, I'm not sure what other way Anglo-dance technopop schmaltz might have impinged on Latin freestyle (unless, again, indirectly, like they both were hugely inspired by say Arthur Baker and Giorgio Moroder and John Robie etc.), but I'm willing to hear arguments. Just because I've never actually noticed it doesn't mean it's not there, obviously.

jesus.

I'm not the original poster who said this (Latin Freestyle owes a lot to to those weird factory bands), and I don't necessarily agree with it either, really. But I do think there might have been some cross-pollination, and even some mutual flowering of various paradigms across the Atlantic back then. I just recall hearing and feeling the undeniable kinship between "Let The Music Play" and "Give Me Tonight" and the more familiar (to me, in Manchester) stuff that New Order were playing at the time ("Temptation", "Confusion", "Blue Monday"). And that was long before I knew who Arthur Baker and John Robie were, ignorant (although happily not sexless) as I was (and no doubt still am in many ways).

And yes, I am admitting I didn't know who Arthur Baker was at the time, even though I loved what was emanating from Factory Records in 1983/84.

Who did Madonna support at the Hacienda in 82-ish? Was it ACR, or New Order?

There's obv 'cross pollination' in the NY to Manc direction - ESG, ACR, Quando Quango etc. Not sure about the other way.

Wait, are we really starting to argue here that New Order (or even Factory Records) had no influence in the other direction at all? I don't like those linear arguments much -- I mean UK punk bounced back across the Atlantic after all, and I'm sure there have been many subsequent aftershocks both ways as well as in other unforseen directions.

xpost it was on the tube TV show, and she 'supported' a factory all-stars group (ACR, NewOrder, etc) doing "Confusion" I believe.

xp Well again, I'm not denying the Latin freestylers influenced '80s Brits -- my favorite Pet Shop Boys album Introspective (especially "Domino Dancing") is a pretty blatant example. It's the influence in the other direction I'm skeptical about.

(Though, again, with the male mid/late '80s Latin freestylers -- from Miami, New York, Fresno, wherever they were from -- I do sort of hear it.) (And obviously the Brits influenced pop-leaning American new wave bands like say Information Society and Book of Love, who may well've been played in freestyle clubs. But I wouldn't call those guys freestyle themselves.)

xpost

That influence is hard to prove, admittedly, but New Order are hardly a lightweight band. Give Limey hacks some credit!

(Latin Freestyle owes a lot to to those weird factory bands)

Um, in respect of opening up people to be receptive to Latin Freestyle, and making it popular, yes. To influencing the style itself, no.

what the fuck is this argument even about.

New Order are hardly a lightweight band

I never said they were! (I probably like them at least as much as Motley Crue or Ricky Skaggs!)

Wait, New Order helped make Latin freestyle popular? How did that happen? (Maybe it happened in England? Because I doubt that most Expose' or Cover Girls or Pajama Party or Company B or Trinere fans had ever heard of New Order. But maybe I'm missed something.)

No, not New Order as such, more the likes of ACR et al.

Anyway, I'm not defending this as I didn't posit the theory in the first place.

Er, I'm guessing even fewer Expose' fans heard of A Certain Ratio than New Order, but maybe I'm wrong.

(i actually think selzer was joking)

x-post to Grouty

I figured out the Madonna thing - yes, it was 'supporting' the Fac Allstars on Tube that I was thinking of. I thought she did a proper gig there later in the evening, but apparently not. BUT I had mixed this up with the fact that she DID support ACR in New York (Danceteria) in 1982.

In mideighties Miami, Power 96 and I-95 would play "Shellshock" and the Shep Pettibone remix of "Bizarre Love Triangle" beside Shannon's "Give Me Tonight" and "My Heart's Divided," Expose's "Point of No Return," TKA, and Giggles. Chuck's right that freestyle wimpos like Noel ("Silent Morning") owe lots more to Sumner plainspeak, but hearing all these great songs side by side convinces that, insofar as there was cross-pollination, it had lots to do with deejays with good ears.

The story was, was that Hooky offered her £50 to do a set that evening, she told him to go boil his bot, or something.

Confusion and Looking From a Hilltop were both Funhouse hits just before and around the same time people first even began using the term freestyle. Chuck talks about being influenced by Baker and Robie, but several of the songs on Substance are produced by Baker and Robie. I'm not blatantly saying New Order gave birth to freestyle, just pointing out, as mentioned, that there was a lot of cross-pollination and that those New Order jams were HUGE hits in the very same clubs that gave birth to Freestyle.

And Quando Quango's Love Tempo was mixed by Mark Kamins.

And I'm not joking! I'm not saying that kids in Miami learned about TKA because they were New Order fans. I'm saying that the producers who were making freestyle, at least in NY, were listening to New Order, and vice versa, and some of the same people were producing each others records and they were all getting played at the same time. The reason I posted that pic up there is because I was only exposed to Section 25 as a weird post-punk band and when I was told that it was considered a proto-freestyle classic I didn't believe it at first. But finding the above 12" in a brooklyn basement helped convince me that maybe the kids who were listening to latin freestyle in 1984 were also listening to the occasional Factory records release.

Chuck talks about being influenced by Baker and Robie, but several of the songs on Substance are produced by Baker and Robie.

Well, yeah, that was part of point. But I wouldn't say that Bruce Springsteen or Cyndi Lauper influenced freestyle (though who knows? maybe they did) just because Baker produced them too. I do get Dan's point, though, about freestyle's prodcuers being aware of New Order; that's totally possible, come to think of it. But I don't hear much New Order in Latin freestyle singing (except, again, for the boy singing,)

There's a track by Leeds synth-pop band Vicious Pink on my 1988 History of the House Sound of Chicago box set, come to think of it --on one of the discs of "early house influences." ("Moskow Diskow" by Telex might be on there, too.) And Electrifying Mojo was playing stuff like Gary Numan (along with Kraftwerk, Yelloww Magic Orchestra, Devo, etc) on WGPR in Detroit in 1980, a couple years before "Planet Rock" and "Rockin It" and records like that. And there were clearly plenty of connections between Bambaata-style electro-rap and Latin freestyle (via the electro style stuff that was then strangely called "Latin hip-hop," which didn't always feature rapping.) So I'm definitely not denying that cross-polination happpened, every which way.

And let's not forget KonKan!

(I'll get me coat)

"I Beg Your Pardon" is THE best New Order rip-off.

"Wait, New Order helped make Latin freestyle popular?"

confusion was on streetwise and djs bought anything on streetwise. that record was very influential.

I wouldn't compare Bakers work with Bruce Springsteen (not sure what he did with Lauper) with his work with New Order. With Bruce he dubbed out and edited/mixed/remixed in various styles to make the music more club-friendly, whereas with New Order they mixed New Wave and electro-funk in the process of writing the songs. It's not like New Order came to Baker with a guitar-driven punk song and Baker added a drum machine. They went into the studio and created club records.

i have a great house single that samples confusion.

i guess my least favorite would be true faith? i never owned a copy of substance since i owned all the singles. so i still don't know what the differences are to the single versions. there are differences, right?

i guess my least favorite would be true faith

how so, Scott?

(not sure what he did with Lauper)

12-inch remix of "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun", 1984.

Wasn't Baker's initial collaboration with New Order a one-off, for the "Confusion" 12-inch? I could be way off on that, but I remember being interested in it at the time just because I heard he was involved.

Agree on Kon Kan, btw; I was going to mention them myself!

there's too many differences. Ceremony has at least 2 released versions, the 7" and the 12". Temptation has the 7" version, the 12" version (is that the same as the one on the 81-82 ep?) and a re-recorded version for Substance (the first version I knew). Everything's Gone Green has 7" and 12" versions. That's why Hutlock mentions the Singles comp above. I ignored it when it came out because I figured it was the same as Substance, but it actually features the 7" mixes of many of these songs, so in some ways is better. Confusion was changed, the Perfect Kiss is the same as the 12" version, which is better then the LP, but there's also the "video mix" 12" which is completely different recording. And so on....

the version of "Confusion" on Retro is the original 12" version, I think.

Baker and New Order wrote confusion, I think around the same time Baker was doing Freeeze's IOU, and they have similarities. He also produced Thieves Like Us.

baker and those dudes were HUGE blue monday fans. so was kraftwerk. and every euro-producer alive.

the influence of blue monday can never be overstated.

i remember seeing some tv program with arthur baker explaining how 'confusion' came together, with him playing the master tape & moving the faders up & down to show how the track was built up - "i brought the funhouse claps" etc. anybody know what program this was?

Yes! It was a PBS documentary on the history of rock.

Great segment. Baker: "I brought the funhouse claps. They added the guitar. They added the vocals. That's my sequencer...."

not to de-rail too much, but this is usually the part of the conversation where I start talking about italo-disco.

I thought "Thieves like us" has a writers credit for Arthur Baker, but he didn't produce it?

"how so, Scott?"

i dunno. came at the tail end of my obsession/undying love for all things new order/joy division. actually, the perfect kiss single might have been the last thing they did that had my full attention. i mean, i really liked low-life - and later brotherhood - but i was fanatical up to that point and after low-life not so much.

You might try "The Morning Sun" remix of "True Faith," Scott (sometimes mistakenly called the Pet Shop Boys remix); it was the 7" single version. It's faster, schlockier, with a Hooky bass run and clanging synth solo that's not on the original. To my knowledge it's never been collected.

there's too many differences. Ceremony has at least 2 released versions, the 7" and the 12". Temptation has the 7" version, the 12" version (is that the same as the one on the 81-82 ep?) and a re-recorded version for Substance (the first version I knew). Everything's Gone Green has 7" and 12" versions. That's why Hutlock mentions the Singles comp above. I ignored it when it came out because I figured it was the same as Substance, but it actually features the 7" mixes of many of these songs, so in some ways is better. Confusion was changed, the Perfect Kiss is the same as the 12" version, which is better then the LP, but there's also the "video mix" 12" which is completely different recording. And so on....

Ceremony has 2 versions, but they are not divided between 7" and 12". MOST of the 12" are the 4-piece rerecording, but not all. The only place on CD where you can find the orig 3-piece version is Singles.

Temptation - yes the 12" is the same as on the 81-82 EP. There's also a 1998 version, which is on the Retro box set.

TPK - the Substance version is an edit of the 12" version, some 40 secs shorter. The Singles version is the 7". There are at least two 'video edits' - one is 5 mins and one is 10 IIRC. One is on the box set, maybe both. Then, as you say there's the album edit.

i have the original u.k. factory 12-inch of ceremony. it's all i've ever known! i'd rather fight than switch.

there's also the studio demo versions of Ceremony, one as Joy Division with Ian and one with Stephen singing. You can go here:

http://www.viva-radio.com/control

to hear them.

yeah, i've heard the ian ceremony before.

I think if you're buying today, I would go Singles, hands down, but in a perfect, spendthrift world, you would buy both that and Substance because you'd need the B-sides, some of which are essential.

I take that back -- in a perfect, spendthrift world you would have all the original Factory 12" singles, as the mastering there has never been improved upon and at least you know FOR SURE you have original versions.

I said it in a review I wrote at the time of Retro, but its even more true now... New Order seem to have trouble compiling themselves properly.

Also, I think Danny is more on track than any of you are giving him credit for in his Miami/Manchester connection. I mean, Carl Craig and many of the Detroit boys were plainly influenced by NO and have admitted as such. Is it that big of a stretch to say that Miami dancefloor artists were too? I don't think so, though I think the term "cross-pollination" is likely the most accurate. New Order picked up on US trends, and the US picked up on New Order. I don't get what's so controversial about that?

i bought the joy division cd box when it came out, and it's good for the non-album non-single stuff, but i never listen to it. the records sound so much better.

i don't think it's controversial. i thought it was common knowledge.

I think some of the confusion (!) was caused by my misreading xhuxk, when I thought he'd called New Order "sexless" and implied they were a pale shadow of Latin freestyle due to being Limey hacks, and that, having appropriated a precious American form, in no way could they have had any corresponding influence the other way (hence a peculiarly American Anglophobia). I don't think he was saying that now.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Lostandfound, i bet y'all could perfect kiss (!) and make up...

I really hate the re-recorded version of "Ceremony." I vote for that. The original (on Singles is so much better.

This is a fantastic poll to be having. I'll have to try to figure out what is worse: the 12" version of Subculture, Shellshock, or State of The Nation!

Good lord! Blame ILM for making me listen to the worst of New Order! You guys kill me sometimes.

You'll never get me to this more than once, you know. ONE TIME and that's it.

The versions of "Ceremony" and "Temptation" here are the best versions BY FAR.

Lostandfound, i bet y'all could perfect kiss (!) and make up...

Yeah, I'm shellshocked, and truly regret that the state of the nation won't back our true faith in our sub culture, especially thieves like us!

(Sorry, ILM.)

For the record, I love the 12" version of Subculture.

Me too. John Robie is a genius. I can't remember whether Saville ever recanted.

wayyyy too much hate for Shellshock on this thread. i think it's stunning, and is easily in my top 3 tracks on Substance.

confusion stinks, state of the nation and shellshock are rather pointless but at least they don't smell bad.

"confusion stinks"

yer insane if you are serious. one of the greatest 12-inches of the 20th century.

the version of "confusion" (one of the arthur baker ones) on singles is so much better. "state of the nation" wins this for me.

Taking Sides:Confusion-vs-Confusion Beats-vs-Confusion Instrumental-vs-Confusion Rough Mix

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

wow, i'm totally surprised that every single song got at least one vote

does the substance version of confusion have, like, an added guest rap or something on it? what's with the 8 votes? you people are demented.

I have no hatred for the Substance version of Confusion because it was the first version I knew, and thus will always have a special place in my heart.

Whomoever voted Ceremony however, is just insane.

booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

BAHAHAHAHAHA STATE OF THE NATION IS #!1!!!! I LOVE YOU ALL!!! BLESS ILM. That's the one I was going to vote for as worst New Order song ever after that torture of listening to those tracks I mentioned upthread. Thank you.

Hehehe I love my cassette of cast versions of Joy Division songs from the movie Control.

I love "State of the Nation", not sure why people have an aversion to it. It's certainly Bernard's best channeling of Chic.

does the substance version of confusion have, like, an added guest rap or something on it? what's with the 8 votes? you people are demented.

-- scott seward, Sunday, November 18, 2007 12:41 AM (17 hours ago) Bookmark Link

it just sucks. it sounds very little like the original version.

'state' is just meh, not actively bad.

just listening to the 7:38 version of <i>confusion</i> on the 2nd disc of <i>substance</i>. you are right, scott that one is quite nice. a totally different song. i don't remember ever having heard two versions of the same song which differ so much. it has to be added though that the long version doesn't focus on the shitty chorus/tune too much. it is good exactly because of all the other stuff which is going on around the theme.

it's roughly the equivalent of the difference between 'blue monday' and 'blue monday 88', except 'blue monday 88' rules.

for comparison, the original "Confusion": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iKyPMXQb5o

god, that is even more crap than the one on the first side of substance. it sounds as if the tape speed is instable. just awful.

eh? the original is like the instrumental on the 2nd cd of 'substance'... only with vocals.

god, that is even more crap than the one on the first side of substance.

wayyyyyyy offtm

indeed.

had i been here, i'd have voted for SotN, which is down there with 60MPH and rock the shack at the very arse-end of the new order canon.

am annoyed i missed the discussion upthread, if only so i could zoom about going on about how acid house was invented in blackpool (by section 25) and incurring absolutely everyone's wrath.

hey ho.

Do people just hate it because of the lyrics? The melody is catchy and the arrangement is AMAZING. I think it's one of their best actually and to compare it to "Rock the Shack" is similarly AMAZING to me.

the lyrics are pretty poor, but not his worst.

[thinks about the "death inflation" line]

actually, no, they're rank. appalling.

that said: the key reasons i dislike it are because i think the melody's insipid and the arrangement is overly slick and cheesy (the backing vocals! eew!) that said, i admit my comparison with RTS doesn't stand up on any real level other than "here are two songs by new order that i don't like".

"Rock the Shack" is great, one of the highlights of Get Ready (which I think is a very good album).

we've done that one, ad infinitum, elsewhere :)

I know, just saying...

the original is like the instrumental on the 2nd cd of 'substance'... only with vocals.
but the singing/talking is so embarrassing that it is almost another song for me. it totally destroys it for me. and there are differences in the use of the synthesizer. i don't like the sound on the single. it somehow seems wrong.

forget it. maybe i am just confused...

the 'confusion' edit on youtube upfronts the vocals more than the actual record, sounds slightly different inevitably. personally it has big associations, being the first record i bought of theirs, and it got me into electro, but remains a total favourite anyway.

Man, that "Confusion" video, awesome.

It's got a very Saturday Night Fever thing going on.

You left "Murder" off. I'm sure it's on my version!

-- Mark G, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 20:14 (1 week ago) Bookmark Link

Murder is a b-side, so it's on disc 2 of the cd set

-- nate woolls, Wednesday, 14 November 2007 20:32 (1 week ago) Bookmark Link

Actually, you are right, but I'm sure it's on the first tape of my 2 cassette version...

*** Original boxed-cassette format with unique packaging deleted. Also
released in 2 standard forms; blue+red sides, black sides. The first
pressing may have Murder on tape 1.

ah HA! Thought so!

coo!

of course, that would make sense, 'cos murder was certainly not a B-side. it's also an oft-overlooked piece of wonder.

The rest of that article page says that "The Perfect Kiss" and others were edited down as they didn't have enough space on CD1. That would also explain why Murder got bounced down.

yes: also explains why certain tracks (mesh, mis-titled as cries and whispers; dubvulture) are missing from the CD but not the tape.

the neworderstory anecdote is that the whole thing only came about because wilson got a CD player for his car and didn't have anything to listen to on it :)

radiohead's Ceremony cover then

not heard it!