Best Herbie Hancock (As Leader) Album Poll of 1960s/70s/80s era.

Just reading that wikipedia entry, I had no idea herbie played on a simple minds track.

I think I went sextant last time and I might just do the same this time.

Again, I think it's a tough choice between Sextant and Perfect Machine: Herbie as an avant-garde trailblazer or Herbie as a dance music populist, both of which roles he did very very well. I could easily vote for Mr. Hands or Sunlight too, for being underrated.

"Future Shock".

There's 10 albums I could easily have voted for.

Empyrean Isles
Maiden Voyage
Mwandishi
Crossings
Sextant
Head Hunters
Thrust
Man-Child
Flood
Future Shock

Manchild is a wonderfully funky album and very underrated.

That Alice Coltrane thread had me wanting to check out Mwandishi era stuff today. I need to hear much more of this stuff. All I really know well is the Blue Note.

It's wonderful stuff.

i don't think anyone who likes electric and/or experimental jazz could dislike Sextant. Plus the opening song sounds like the starting point for minimalist techno and ambient.

Crossings, I think, is quite different from Sextant, even if it's by the same band. Sextant is all about these hypnotic grooves, whereas Crossings is more disjointed and chaotic.

And great as well!

Well, I was able to put a hold on Sextant at the public library.

Sure! I really need to get Mwandishi some day, can anyone tell me how it sounds compared to the other two?

I was a bit disappointed by the two Eddie Henderson albums from that era which feature most of the Mwandishi band: they have some good tunes, but the songs are a bit less adventurous, Herbie sounds less inspired than on the LPs under his own name, and Henderson's trumpet playing dominates a bit too much (I've never been a big fan of the unmuted metallic trumpet sound). Plus no Julian Priester.

(x-post)

I'm no good at describing things so here's what Allmusic says.

It would almost be easier to do this by era: Blue Note, Mwandishi, Headhunters, general 70s fusion, and Laswell records. I mean, choosing Maiden Voyage and Perfect Machine is kind of senseless -- tho they both feature the song "Maiden Voyage"!.

Of the three Mwandishi records, while Sextant gets much-deserved love, Crossings is my actually favorite. Unlike Mwandishi, it has a lot of Dr. Patrick Gleeson synth textures, but also some great modal jazz and more suite-like compositions. Sextant suffers a bit by comparison, IMO, from the second side's monotonous groove ("Hornets," I think). It's still a great track, but not as rhythmically thrilling as the other tracks.

Maybe not, but "Hornets" is hella intense, it really feels like a swarm hornets attacking you. Plus the bass line is super-heavy, and Maupin and Priester and Henderson get to blow their brains out, unlike on the other tunes - you gotta love it when Maupin uses some weird mouthpiece which makes him sound like an angry duck!

It would almost be easier to do this by era

Hmm, I have Mwandishi, Sextant, and Headhunters. Looks like Crossing is a major gap that I need to fill!

SEXTANT

I don't bother with anything before "Head Hunters". "Sextant" has its moments, but is generally too weird.

Geir ya killin' me!

maiden voyage 4EVER

call me weird but I like the disco-era vocoder jams better than mwandishi

The Mwandishi records are all sorts of awesome. If you like Herbie Hancock records of that period including Sextant and Headhunters, definitely look up some Eddie Henderson.

Maiden Voyage is a fantastic album, even though all of Herbie's Blue Note stuff is good, I think it is the best of the lot. Maiden Voyage is like Wayne Shorter's Speak No Evil in that it is a solo record away from the Miles Quintet that is every bit as good as the best records made with Davis.

Another Geir wtf tonight lol

I'm surprised Tuomas hasn't heard Mwandishi.

So Headhunters ftw again?

Oh, and saying all that: I voted for Thrust I think. It may not be his best record overall -- but it's the best of the Headhunters records.

Also, Secrets is pretty underrated in that sense -- I have it on some weird 2-CD two-fer with Sextant and it has lots of the great String Ensemble spaciness of the Mwandishi/Headhunters years but also the first instance, I believe, of vocoder.

Also worth noting, "Nobu" from Dedication is one of his best all-analog ventures -- and completely solo.

Thrust is great and I don't think Secrets is as bad as people make out.

It would almost be easier to do this by era

So what would everyone's favourite era be then? Mine is definitely early to mid 70s.

The same for me, I guess, from Mwandishi to Sunlight.

It's an awesome period.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

So many great albums here, get those votes in!

So Tuomas, is Headhunters going to get hardly any votes as everyone wants to avoid the 'canon' album?

Another predictable vote for <i>Sextant</i>.

So Tuomas, is Headhunters going to get hardly any votes as everyone wants to avoid the 'canon' album?

Well, it won the previous poll...

Has anyone read the book about Head Hunters (this is the correct spelling, I think, though confusingly enough the band is called Headhunters without the space)? I though it was okay, but maybe a bit too over-reaching and academic. I liked the book about A Love Supreme (which was in the same series) more.

Another predictable vote for <i>Sextant</i>

me too

yesterday I listened to Speak Like A Child and if I hadn't already voted for Maiden Voyage...

I just hope there's a reasonable amount of votes.

Get voting!

Anyone fans of the 70's VSOP acoustic stuff he did inbetween the electronic albums? I have never checked that stuff out. Worth it?

I remember some essay or review calling it "arena jazz", which seems pretty accurate. I only heard one album but it sounded like 60s Miles but less crazy and heavier (for Tony Williams' part, anyway).

Worth checking out?

I saw Herbie play with his acoustic quartet in Edinburgh in 2005 I think it was.

it's been so long, i can't really say. with that lineup, it can't be <i>bad</I>...can it?

True, I will try find it cheap somewhere.

Another predictable vote for <i>Sextant</i>

me too

And again. Is Sextant the new Head Hunters?

If it wins, it deserves it. Sextant is among my top 5 records ever, it's just amazing.

It's kinda sad that it was practically the last Mwandishi recording (if you don't count those Eddie Henderson LPs which, like I mentioned upthread, are good but not quite as good as Sextant). Who knows what might've happened if that band would've sticked together?

Btw, Mwandishi fans might want to check the duo record Patrick Gleeson and Bennie Maupin released some years back, Driving While Black. It's quite different from the seventies stuff (there's no other players on it, so everything besides Maupin's reeds is electronic), but interesting nevetheless.

Sextant is a wonderful album and if it or Head Hunters wins it , it will deserve it.

90 mins left to vote

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

So Head Hunters won the last one and only got 3 votes this time. Typical ILM lol. Glad other albums got so many votes though. Over 50 votes in total isn't bad either.

I wonder how a Miles Davis vs Herbie Hancock 1970-1975 poll would do.

Wow, I'm ashamed I had never checked out Sextant until now. This shit is sick.

It's awesome stuff.

I wonder how a Miles Davis vs Herbie Hancock 1970-1975 poll would do.

Shall I do that?

I like picturing Herbie messing around in a huge room full of synthesizers and making his amused Herbie faces.

Have you seen the back cover of Sunlight?

Btw, is it true that Miles was angry for Herbie for him managing to do the fusion thing Miles had already started, only with more commercial success than Miles ever had?

i'm sure miles was slightly annoyed about that. what's really interesting is that Miles actually *opened* for Herbie on several occasions in the mid 70s (post Head Hunters I presume) -- an arrangement that must've been awkward for all parties involved.

Wayne Shorter probably had equal if not bigger commercial success with Weather Report, I'd imagine.

I got a new (old) turntable and was able to listen to Thrust last night, it is awesome. The Palm Grease break must have been sampled in a ton of rap tunes, right?

I thought, this being ILM, "Mwandishi" might have won this

I love Actual Proof. Mike Clark is tops on that one.

I thought that The Blood Donor might have won.

So Marcello is back,eh?

John Coltrane (as Leader) Albums Poll

I thought, this being ILM, "Mwandishi" might have won this

Sextant has always been the ILM pick though I think.

Wayne Shorter probably had equal if not bigger commercial success with Weather Report, I'd imagine.

Weather Report never had anything close to the commercial success of "Rockit", or even "You Bet Your Love".

As far as album sales went, both were surpassed by Mezzoforte and Spyro Gyra. For a short while at least.

I think Head Hunters was the best selling jazz album ever for quite some while, until Kind of Blue finally passed it. I'm not sure if this happened during Miles's lifetime though.

I never get fed up with either of those albums actually. Listened to head Hunters and the Mwandishi era cds last night.

Now it's time for Man-Child.

Tuomas , I'm sure I read somewhere that Head Hunters was still the biggest seller.

According to the RIAA site, nowadays Kind of Blue is triple platinum, whereas Head Hunters is only single platinum. That's only US sales tough, I'm not sure if the rest of the world would compensate. I think I read somewhere that Kind of Blue passed Head Hunters in sales as late as 1994 though. Maybe it was around that time that it had become cemented as the jazz album everyone should own? Or was it so in the eighties already?

About the Herbie/Miles competition in the seventies: to me at least it seems obvious that, after the Mwandishi era, Herbie's approach to fusion was notably more populist (which doesn't necessarily mean worse) than Miles's, so could his bigger success really have been that big a surprise to Miles? Or maybe that was the exact reason Miles was angry to Herbie, that he had sold out? On the other hand, I remember reading in some Miles biography (maybe his autobiography?) that he really expected On the Corner to be hip and popular, which, in light of the actual music, seems way too optimistic.

I wonder if Head Hunters sells nowadays. It's never the token jazz album in the best album ever lists in magazines like A Kind Of Blue Is

I thought Dave Brubeck's "Time Out" was the bestselling jazz album ever.

I'm fairly sure Headhunters was a much bigger seller than Time Out, but the issue is whether it gets defined as jazz or not. Among the "traditional jazz" albums I think it's either KOB or Time Out.

although I didn't see the tuomas post saying that KOB was bigger than Headhunters. But I wouldn't be surprised if KOB has surpassed Time Out by now with all the attention it gets as "greatest jazz album of all time," etc.

It is the token jazz album for many.

Time Out was the best selling jazz album for quite a while, but I think Head Hunters passed it at some point, and now KoB has passed them both. At least in the US Time Out and HH are both only single platinum, whereas KoB is triple platinum. Does anyone if there's any site which would show worldwide sales of albums?

None that I know of. Maybe DJ Martian will know.

I'd be disappointed if he didn't.
Are there any good Herbie Hancock books about?

Only one , and on Head Hunters it seems
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Head-Hunters-Making-Platinum-Perspectives/dp/0472114174/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197853403&sr=1-4
Bit expensive as well.

How much did "Future Shock" sell, and does it count as a jazz album?

oh i love 'maiden voyage.' and 'headhunters.' 'headhunters' was the first herbie hancock set i heard. we were on the salt flats. and a track from 'future shock' is so good, robotsinheat.com (no that's not me but the track's there).

why wouldn't future shock count?

Because it's not jazz really. Not that this makes it any better or worse, but I think calling Future Shock or Perfect Machine jazz would stretch the definition of jazz meaningless. Out of three Laswell-produced albums I think only Sound-System might have enough jazz elements to fit into some wide definition of the word.

Similarly, I'd call Lite Me Up R&B, not jazz.

Jazz is about pushing the boundaries though.

Yeah, but do you think any album someone known primarily as a jazz musician releases is automatically jazz? Perfect Machine and Lite Me Up have hardly any improvised parts, I'd say that is the minimum requirement to call something jazz.

"Tutu" is often counted as not jazz, isn't it?

Tuomas is correct I guess.

Because it's not jazz really. Not that this makes it any better or worse, but I think calling Future Shock or Perfect Machine jazz would stretch the definition of jazz meaningless.

can_o_worms.jpeg

I don't think so. Can of worms would be saying that something like Sextant or Bitches Brew or Head Hunters isn't really jazz (which is not what I think), but an album like Perfect Machine is so far removed from jazz, I don't think anyone who'd listen to it without knowing it was released under a jazz musician's name would call it that.

Someone on here would argue otherwise though, which is probably what he meant.

My mates bringing over the 1st Herbie solo cd that i havent heard.

Was the Donald Byrd - Blackbyrd album the biggest seller until Headhunters?

I am pretty sure that must have been "Time Out" by Dave Brubeck.

I'm sure I read somewhere Blackbyrd sold shitloads in the 70s. It was definitely the biggest Blue Note album ever at the time I think.

And was seen as Donald Byrd selling out by going funk and is said to be the beginning of the end for Blue Note as lots of jazz bands went funk.

'man-child' is remarkable, i feel like it's one of those HH '70s records w/a middling reputation that (much like 'sunlight' recently) should probably undergo critical rehab.

getting acquainted with speak like a child finally and what a perfect little record

yeah that's a really nice one

It's funny how these polls shake out - I'd probably pick Sextant over Headhunters too, and yet it feels wrong somehow to see Sextant get like 4x the votes of Headhunters when Headhunters is the one with *those funky jams everyone knows and loves*

Gonna go with the unpopular opinion that Head Hunters > Sextant.

Also, this

 Sunlight (1978) – Columbia	0

would not happen if this were re-polled today.

I would have voted Mwandishi, though Headhunters is also amazing.

I still haven't heard Sextant because I'm waiting to get a good copy on vinyl.

'man-child' is remarkable, i feel like it's one of those HH '70s records w/a middling reputation that (much like 'sunlight' recently) should probably undergo critical rehab.

Man-Child is stunning. I've had Sun Touch as my ringtone for years, and the number of people who've asked me: "What's that tune?" is unreal.

A mere 3 votes for Head Hunters is criminally hipsterish. We can do better as a community.

hell yes sun touch is great xp

Sometimes I think about how Herbie, while being considered one of the greats, doesn't conjure up the same mystique as Miles or Trane or Monk. I feel like it's because he seems like an affable guy and affability doesn't lend itself to mystique.

And he's still alive. I think that affects the mystique somehow, too.

Speak Like A Child is a great record, and such a beautiful, beautiful sleeve, too. Like, one of my absolute favourites. And like McCoy Tyner's Song For My Lady, that beautiful, romantic sleeve encases an absolutely blistering album.

True, but I think Wayne has a bit more mystique because he has a contemplative, introverted vibe and doesn't smile a lot

I love the title track of Speak Like a Child (and of Maiden Voyage), but the rest of the songs on the album weren't very memorable to me. I can see why he would not want to lean too heavily on the ethereal ballads, but that was where his strength lay in acoustic jazz. The most consistent records of his I've heard are the Mwandishi group.

can't get with you there, the melodies on speak like a child are crazy catchy

Empyrean Isles also terribly underrated by this poll - one of my favorite late hard bop records. Inevitable that that happens in with the binary nature of polls.

It and Head Hunters are the ones I've listened to the most. It's impossible not to love 'Cantaloupe Island'.

Speak Like a Child and The Prisoner are my two favorite of his 60s acoustic albums.

All three of the Mwandishi albums are equally brilliant, but if I had to pick one, it's Sextant for sure. That thing is a masterpiece.

Man-Child is the best of the Headhunters-era albums, but Secrets is really good, too.

One thing I love about the first Mwandishi album is that on the first track there's this tiny, barely perceptible chick-chick guitar, buried in the mix but running through the whole piece, almost a metronome, and then you look at the credits and that tiny little noise was played by noted 70s hard rock shredder Ronnie Montrose(!).

I've wondered if he was brought in to improvise a "normal" guitar part, but was wary of the key-change in the riff or the unusual time signature and figured it was safer to stick to playing a textural wah-wah part. It's not as though he were a neophyte at guitar, though.

True, but I think Wayne has a bit more mystique because he has a contemplative, introverted vibe and doesn't smile a lot

This has reminded me that I saw Wayne Shorter live in 2014. The music was extremely abstract and contemplative, as you'd expect, and Wayne was fairly taciturn throughout – but his drummer spent the whole gig grinning so manically, even during the quietest parts, that my wife and I were both convinced he was off his head on drugs!

A google image search appears to confirm that the guy does this a lot.

https://www.google.com/search?q=brian+blade&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiRyf3C3svsAhXUURUIHcmNCV0Q_AUoAXoECAMQAw&biw=1362&bih=706

brian blade is the man

Man-Child is the best of the Headhunters-era albums, but Secrets is really good, too.

My wife bought a copy of this for me in maybe 2005-2006 when I was mostly trad jazz and, because it wasn't five stars in the AMG book I had, I didn't give it much play. When I came back to it a year or two ago (now huge fan of Herbie) I was like, "what was I thinking"?

this = Man-Child

Oh yeah Blade might be my favorite contemporary drummer and p sure he is just high on life.

When I saw Shorter in 2011 (Voice review here) Blade was definitely one of the main attractions.

The main set was a 75-minute medley. It began and built slowly, with heavy chords from Perez setting the mood. Shorter hung back at first, nestled in the curve of the grand piano’s body, listening. Patitucci seemed more concerned with establishing a counter-melody than building rhythmic momentum, and Blade’s playing, too, was all accents, with little or no traditional forward movement. It all had the feel of modern chamber music, neither swinging nor bluesy. The drummer made his move soon enough, though. He quickly revealed himself as the most aggressive of the four players (with Perez coming in a close second), erupting more than a few times with a power many rock drummers would envy and creating a thunderous, tympani-like rumble even when playing with mallets.

...

As the lengthy piece moved from one melody to the next, it started to feel like a series of semi-climaxes with no real payoff — the sound of four men feeling each other out while a paying audience sat and paid respectful witness. But around the 50-minute mark, Blade took an absolutely apocalyptic drum solo, his kick sounding like a trap door slamming shut. It not only woke up anyone inside Town Hall or down the block who might have been drifting, it provided a crescendo for the music as a whole; from there, it was a slow, tentative glide back down to earth.

Not a single mention on this whole thread of "Fat Albert Rotunda"? Is it the jazz funk or the Cosby associations?

Can't deny the results - I once wrote a pretentious secondary school essay based oh a minute of Sextant but Feets, Don't Fail Me Now is perfect too

“tell me a bedtime story” from fat Albert rotunda is all-time

Thrust is really really great too. All that Mike Clark and Paul Jackson shit is head exploding.

Bedtime Story on Fat Albert Rotunda is another example of one good ballad on an otherwise indifferent Hancock album.

thrust is incredibly poppin. actual fucking proof

There’s really nothing else like that track

mr. hands is the best one

The line up on that record is insane.

features ron carter and jaco lol

Sheila E!

for me, "sound system" is the one. i went to it looking for breakdance sounds in 1984 and it split my tiny brain wide open. "metal beat" still sounds absolutely mentalist

Mr. Hands is phenomenal

Sextant was my introduction and remains my favorite, but I dig all the '70s albums that placed well in the poll.

Herbie is making his now (apparently) annual trip to the Kennedy Center this June. Of course I will be there.

Tempted to do a "best of the rest" poll for the ones that got zero votes. Of the ones I know, I'd probably pick either Inventions and Dimensions, Fat Albert Rotunda, or Flood.

I got heavily into Eddie Henderson's mid-70s solo albums last year, which are a fine companion to the Mwandishi stuff - same band even!

I wrote a piece about VSOP last year.

Flood is an insane set that goes OFF!!!!! So good

Inventions and Dimensions

severely underrated album - really interesting lineup

Tempted to do a "best of the rest" poll for the ones that got zero votes. Of the ones I know, I'd probably pick either Inventions and Dimensions, Fat Albert Rotunda, or Flood.

I've been tempted to do a poll of his best "sell out" tracks (intended in a positive way; I adore his disco/dance/funk/break stuff)

the disco records are all soooo dope. i think i love lite me up the most

Those Eddie Henderson records are dope. I'll stan for *Realization* all day long. More Dr Patrick all the time.

“mr. hands” is cool. aside from the amazing cover art works well with london-style “jazz dance” records (ie the uptempo latin inflected stuff with trad instruments)

i lean heavily on “spiraling prism” and “calypso” when i play it out

sorry to jump around here+i'm positive someone has brought it up before now BUT-

if you want even more super hot 70s headhunters/hancock/miles adjacent action, bennie maupin's slow traffic to the right from 1977 is about as good as they get. funky, spacey, mellow, but mad.

probably old news, putting here for posterity mostly. highly recommended either way.

I've been listening to that Maupin record recently, since his debut is maybe my favourite ECM record. I like it better than the funk-era Hancock I've heard, and it walks an interesting line between being tasteful and gently exploratory, and also trying to sell some records in the context of late 70s fusion.