Techno/House Bobbins 2008

blasphemy! abomination!
seriously,though, nice move.

yeah! no more minimal house bobbins thread!

as long as they keep bobbin'

NOT '08 YET HERETICS!

IF ANYONE MENTIONS IDM ON HERE I'M GOING TO GET BUTTHURT.

I've actually been digging out a bunch of old stuff that might once have been called IDM -- Bola, Arovane, Luke Slater's 7th Plain... it's refreshing. (And some of it, shockingly dated.)

Loscil is very under rated these days. He wrote a string of solid ambient/idm records that don't get mentioned too much around these parts.

I still don't know about the Arovane tho. I still have his first few 12's on DIN and I break them out every so often but I am not so into them. His stuff was cool because it was biting Autechre and electro but he hadn't quite gone up his own ass like Autechre had by that point. The only problem is that this stuff seems a little twee and light weight compared to a lot of actual electro that is working the same area. Scapen Te from Atol Scrap was one of my favorite things he did.

That being said, I wish I still had a lot of that stuff to look back at. I don't think I would find a lot of interesting stuff. The whole genre was marred by a lack of strong rhythm. I would have liked for some unintelligent dance to take some of those sonic and really put them to work. I suppose microhouse tried to do that, but it failed for the same reasons that IDM did.

I have also looked back at some of Marc Leclair's work this year. I did not give him enough attention when he was having his flush of fame. I have been listening to Musique pour 3 Femmes Enceintes quite a bit lately.

new Sascha Funke album is odd...

this is a very strange way to get this thread started, but fuck it -- one of the reasons i've gone back to some of this stuff is i wondered (from a producer's point of view) what avenues might have been left for dead ends that might actually offer ways to reinvigorate mxnxmxl. listening to bola's "soup" (1998), i was kind of shocked at how rhythmically weak it was -- sure, it drew from electro, but not in any terribly convincing way. mainly it's an exercise in synthy self-indulgence, which is great or dismal depending on your tolerance for that kind of thing. much of the album i found really dated, but there are a few lovely tracks on there.

arovane i think might be a little more interesting or at least relevant to this thread given his rooting in dub-techno; yeah, he had the autechre "incunabula" thing down but he also has one foot in the basic channel/pole camp. need to find the rest of my DIN 12"s -- i mean come on, they had pole, dynamo (aka torsten profrock, aka various artists, aka t++) so there's gotta be some interesting stuff in there. now if only i knew which box of vinyl it was in...

I listened to Tides by Arovane again a few weeks ago. It fails to strike me as strong as it did when I first heard it (it struck me quite a bit). I always thought it was more straight to the point than Autechre ever were, although his earlier stuff I think was quite more IDM-ish, on par with early Ae.

Re Sascha Funke: I'm in the midst of trying to decide whether "mango" (the track) is either really good or just largely ignorable. That deep bass though!

Seeing how the 2007 thread was ended right after my post (6 days early at that) I might as well ask again. Can anyone at all ID this clip, which you can stream here?

I was also hoping someone would have posted an image at the top of this thread, after spending all of 06 looking at that Narod Niki picture, and all of this year at that Paul McCartney one. But alas, too late now.

every beat on "soup" is like "doonk doonk CLANK doonk doonk CLANK", my first hip-hop breakbeat style. it was weird that bola took off in such a big way, when just about every other artist on 0161 or the skampler had much more interesting things going on. maybe he was the only one strong enough to develop albums which *hadn't* already broke?

anyway i don't think anyone's going to get a whole lot of mileage by going down that road. a lot of it *is* just exploring analog synth noises, which just about everyone in the cosmic disco crew has been doing for a few years now.

forget arovane, what about DiN "themselves"? aufenthalt and all that.

techno and house, people! not IDM!

what's the diff

i don't wanna go down *that* road precisely but say, luke slater's 7th plain, black dog/balil.... that sun electric "lost & found" is partially responsible for sending me back to a moment where the idea of genre seemed less calcified, and that's what i'd like to look into. hell, i may not find anything terribly worth preserving, but it's better than listening to yet another minus ripoff, say.

This reminds me of a semi-embarrasing experience trying to sell off my copy of Gnase by Bola this summer. While I tend to be somewhat resentful of a lot of the cynicism towards IDM, sometimes theres stuff that truly stops 'making sense' when you stop being 17.

To diverge from the IDM of this thread though - with thanks very much to the lovely House is a Feeling top 30, not only has Petre Inspirescu possibly clicked for me via the absolutely amazing Le Creme Bonjour (Well, his other stuff isn't sounding much better to me, although I heard Sadakt out, and it was quite grand, this track, though, is bonkers!) the introduction to the label Cecile has proved most valuable. After being really, really impressed by Entrada del Sol by Markus Fix, and enjoying other stuff I've since heard off that ep of his, as well as then hearing bits and pieces of tracks by Sis, which so far sound just astounding, my interest has been more than peaked, really. On a arguably not dissimal note, Etudes Elctroniques by Luciano is sounding Great. God, the whole Cadenza sounds is having a big, kind of belated growth on me.

on the subject of arovane, the 'atol scrap' lp is great. always enjoyable when i sporadically come back to it.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/410GR0P28YL._AA240_.jpg

that comp is all about "Rushed" vs "Polynomial-C"

and "trak" and "at les" !!

the luke slater track on this is some pretty fine aquatic techno.

can you all ID this track? i found a pack of whitelabels with no info, but the song sounds familiar. i've definitely heard it before.

here is a sample: http://www.sendspace.com/file/h0ve23

that track is DJ DOZIA BLAKE - POP KULTURE #1 on josh wink's OVUM RECORDINGS

you probably heard it on wink's own "profound sounds vol 1", still one of the greatest dub-techno mixes ever

thank you!

although i don't think i've ever heard that mix

okay, so the b-side is some other track not on the original dozia release! here is a sample: http://www.sendspace.com/file/fppy7t

show me your mathemagic, V!

nvm, it's this: http://www.discogs.com/release/515159

I'm so confused about what happened to techno music over the last couple years. Even things that aren't nominally minimal sound minimal to me; sedated.

Is this really representative of what's popular now:
http://www.residentadvisor.net/feature-read.aspx?id=868

I must be getting old because it all sounds the same to me.

This is all coming from the position of being an ignorant outsider to all this, okay, but it seems like basically there's either Villalobos and a whole bunch of shit that sounds exactly like him, or else fucking blog house, and everything else is in subgenre ghettos.

If you want someone to blame it'd probably be Zip and Baby Ford, they introduced a lot of the minimalism which has slowly seeped into everything.

For good or bad thats largely up to your tastes.

But please tell me you can tell between T2 and .. I don't know Radioslave?

And if it sounds sedated, blame Ketamine.

It was literally sedated.

no ketamine, just plain old weed.

Is this really representative of what's popular now

yes, pretty much. there arent enough israeli trancers and bodzin wannabes in that list to be representative of the club situation outside of berlin, though.

(ie the list isnt quite väth enough.)

People still make actual techno techno. Not that I could tell you anything about it.

Hasn't Resident Advisor branded it's own sound a bit?

some of the stuff on that list wouldn't sell at all in most US shops.

that RA list is really varied and quite good. some of the stuff on there is not even remotely like villalobos.

the minimal = ketamine meme needs to die.

From the RA list, "'We Are Your Friends' had its doubters"

LOL. Who?

One more thing, T2’s ‘Heartbroken’ pisses me off. Its too seeped in irony, even as a Super Eurobeat fan I find this to be unlistenable.

I'd bet you all the money in my bank account that T2 and the girl singing on it were not being even remotely ironic and that I and thousands of others enjoy it completely unironically.

But I see you're a lame attempt at a troll now that I think for a second, sorry, jog on.

Yeah, the T2 one sounds different, of course. But there're strong similarities in style between like 23 of the 30 tracks on that list, isn't there? I know this is partially due to the dead ears of the outsider/non-fan, like how all music made after 1950 sounds the same to your grandparents.

not particular similarities...though since that poll is a huge amalgam of different votes the tracks that are high (and the one that tops it) are the ones that feature in every contributor's original chart rather than one everybody agreed was the best of the year.

so you can't really take such a poll to task in my opinion, it's just a spread of votes, not a decision.

The RA list is slightly better than all of the "Best of 2007" charts on Beatport.

I didn't realize, until now, that you can buy someone's entire chart off beatport.

Kinda cool that Kabale Und Liebe & Daniel Sanchez's "Mumbling Yeah" won RA's poll, although it's only 'cause it won that I worked out what it is! However I heard this track so much last year and loved it every time, it's such a great/involving/interesting "tracky" track isn't it, like Henrik Schwarz meets Matt John meet Dennis Ferrer meets Fuckpony - the ultimate deep house not deep house track.

Also, I'm late to the party but Ronan is right about Petre Inspirescu's "Sakadat" being amazing.

Also loving Prosumer & Murat Tepeli's “What Makes You Go For It?" - which sounds like a Martin Gore-sung Depeche Mode track circa Black Celebration. Love it when it starts going laser-jet crazy at the end. Can't wait to hear the whole album.

Jichael Mackson's "Piepe" is even better than "The Grass Is Always Greener" and less gimmicky as well. I've only heard a sample of the A side but I'm more taken with the B anyway.

Loving, loving, LOVING the "Scenario" 2x12" from Dettmann & Klock. Also came upon the "Molecule" collection of Monobox (Robert Hood) stuff which is absolutely solid.

Finally heard the (completely unrelated) International Pony album which has some pretty great moments and a handful of filler. I can see what it made it on to Phil's Pitchfork albums list.

Also Looking forward to the Prosumer-Tepali album - not so sure about difference between the vinyl and CD version - odds are will prefer the vinyl version - but then I'll have to live with a larger version of the dubious album cover.

http://www.residentadvisor.net/news.aspx?id=8972

Actually, they've since changed the album art. Now it's mostly just black with the same "Serenity" scrawled on it. I hope to talk to them sometime this month and I'll most certainly be asking about that.

The difference is that the CD version has more song-oriented versions of the tracks, whereas the vinyl versions are mostly dubs that are longer and more tracky. After a couple spins I prefer the CD for home listening.

cadenza 23 is my shit right now. perhaps not as far out as we've come to expect from the label recently but it's so pleasingly jacking and propulsive. and what a breakdown!

and tim f and ronan otm about "sakadat". actually i was surprised to notice pedro's absence on ra's producers poll since everything he released this year was just pure gold, "de bou", the cadenza double pack, "emancipare", that amazing deep chain reaction style track at the end of the raresh mix. he seems to have such a wide ranging style, can't wait to hear what he comes with in 2008

er, everything he released last year i mean

re: cadenza 23

I'm really into that record (and most cadenza stuff..) but that's what's considered 'jacking and propulsive' these days? I always slotted stuff like that (most minimal, really) into the 'early / late night) build-up/come-down/chill out stuff.

Yeah I have yet to really start feeling most of the Romanian stuff I've heard but Sakadat, from the mid-section onwards in particular, is astonishing. So... wonky!

I have a question: what is "durrr durrr durrrrrr"? Just the Justice re-edit?

matt dc (and other londoners): http://www.residentadvisor.net/event-detail.aspx?id=36793

Umm, wtf dial 38.

I want to go to Romania.

After hearing Sakadat and Galantar from Petre's thing on Cadenza.

I'm turning into Bimble.

"sakadat" has my favourite snare drum of 2007.

now there's a poll idea!

on the Romanian tip I like rhadoos remix of michal ho and that one is all about the drums too. They are not so much smeared and hyper-programmed/damaged as has been the fashion. They are more propulsive and aqua-tinged without resorting to a neo-detroit style

Umm, wtf dial 38.

haha, for real

<i>Umm, wtf dial 38.</i>

what?

http://www.discogs.com/release/1110636

I say the drunk operators at the czech pressing plant fucked up & dial is passing it off as as as crypto-art joke. then again I say that sort of thing

I considered buying it to put on when I was trying to get to sleep. Guy has a calming voice.

But I'm not that crazy.

It would make a great DJ tool! Some remixes would be nice as well.

Thank you littlewhiteearbuds for the Jichael Mackson tip. Both tracks are really excellent (although, while they are thankfully free of campy samples, it's gonna be a long time before I hear something better than The Grass is Always Greener). Dare I say Jichael is one of the most apt producers of our day?

Speaking of producers of superior aptitude, Efdemin's remix of Andreas Heiszenberger's Perfect Moment is really, really good as well. Efdemin at his most hypnotic perhaps. And man, those Detroity hi-hats are beautiful.

Oh and thanks to Random Circuits for alerting me to the Perfect Moment remix.

Random Circuits, one of the best blogs going.

-- Stevie D: "I have a question: what is "durrr durrr durrrrrr"? Just the Justice re-edit?"

Yeah, I was a Justice fan boy when I made this account last year.

Durrr is the sound a Justice/Boys Noize/Digitalism/SebastiAn/Busy P et al. makes.

this luciano set is the insanest thing. download or spend the rest of your life wishing you had.

if it is anything like his epic set at kristal glam club from late last year that i cannot stop listening to, it must be very good! house is back!

I have not heard this epic set at kristal glam club...

Luciano @ Silo Club 16/05/07?

you can get it here: http://www.residentadvisor.net/forum-read.aspx?id=36405

check the tracklist! i love that he plays a pitched down "god made me funky"

he's been playing the same set all year. although it is a good set.

The Silo Club set is insane! If I wasn't blown away by it already I wouldn't probably even bother this time, but, well, what r1o natsume said above.

Yeah the Silo Club set is one of my mixes of the year.

That Kristal Glam Club set looks awes, will download.

the Silo Club set and Efdemin's RA mix are the two mixes I would give to somebody to tell them what I liked in 2007, give or take some other cool records.

Silo Club/Sebo K/Dixon for me, but I've said this before...

Objectively speaking the Damian Lazarus Monza Club Ibiza mix covers the most ground in terms of one mix explaining what I liked in 2007, but for that very reason (its vibe of "I R 2007") I'm hesitant to put it forward.

Ronan did you hear Tobi Neumann's Amnesia Ibiza mix? It's not as good as his previous two official mixes (as with the Ewan Pearson Fabric mix it's a bit more greyscale than I'm used to from him), but it makes great use of Dennis Ferrer's "A Drum, A Lightstick and a Fixture", and the way it starts with Minilogue's "Birdsong" made me think of you (mixed brilliantly into Loco Dice mix of "Son of Raw" - in fact if I had to hold up a single mix transition that might be the one).

I must check that one out. I still love "Birdsong". I always liked "Drumstick and a Light Fixture" too, if it's the one I'm thinking of.

Plus your review of "Birdsong" was the first thing I read that really explicitly teased out the minimal/deep house convergence.

Can someone please download that Luciano set I linked and then ID the amazing track at the seventy minute mark with the snatches of pitched-up 2-step style vocals?

okay, i am back.

though it came out in early december, i just picked up MLZ's "Dark Days" on Modern Love and...uh...woah.

available here. (and sorry to direct you to my own blog, but if you haven't heard it i think it is well worth it).

the table is the table, why are all the bitrates pitched down so low, low, low, low?

Hey, any tracks here are for reviewing purposes only, and will be up for two weeks. If you like the sounds, please try to hunt them or their performers down, and somehow give them your respect by purchasing them.

Thanks for those though.

I am officially indifferent about Roland Appel. Dark Soldier was a bit too wishy-washy even for a huge 'goth-house' like myself, and his remixes of sian and yellow sox didn't do much, but after hearing Unforgiven his sound is starting to grow on me. Unfortunately theres often something to sour what are rather beautiful string/piano arrangements (and the great vocal sample in unforgiven), by which I mean the vocals in dark soldier, and the outright foray into cheese in unforgiven. Either way, interesting to think about I guess.

yknow what, durr? i don't know.

it sounds okay on my computer, not perfect, but it comes across?

also winston, i do buy 95% of my music, and while people might not take that little note seriously, i do.

new dan ghenacia is pretty tight...

the one on Adult Only or the Freak N Chic?

Not heard the latter, like the former.

the latter.

'garden' is an earworm.

the adult only record is awesome. the label seems to be having a pretty great run lately, see also the chris carrier & dj wild release from last september.

i had an excellent time dancing to arpiar on saturday. they played a really house-y set, much like the kind of mid-90s new york style garage that luciano plays, lots of chunky 4-bar basslines and 909 hi-hats. they looked like they were having a great time as well. and how good is the end's soundsystem? we spoke to raresh and rhadoo very shortly after and they seemed like really friendly guys, did anyone catch them at t bar on sunday night?

i'm pretty disappointed by the stephen beaupre record on circus company. compared to the last 4 releases (especially the incredible oleg poliakov 12) it seems a bit regressive and preset-y. speaking of presets, is the breakdown in luciano's "fochedrem" a parody of recent "preset techno" or whatever nsi are talking about in philip sherburne's interview?

i'd like to read that if you have the url handy

it is in the wire magazine, not online i'm afraid.

i'm not sure about nsi's staunch anti digital stance. i know techno is pretty much an old man's game these days, but it is pretty disheartening as a fledgling producer that more value is placed on sound design than ideas. on the other hand i respect quality as much as anyone, and can imagine how frustrating it must be for producers and djs and people who care strongly about "the scene" to keep hearing the same ableton/reaktor style sounds. and it's not like nsi aren't using "real" hardware in imaginative ways. i just wonder if an amazing track is still an amazing track regardless of how it was made. and how much knowledge of a tracks process effects how we enjoy it. plus i can't afford hardware!

i guess "nsi's pro analog stance" would be a fairer description

but sound design is PART of the idea. i think you could perhaps break down the opposition differently, by contrasting artists who spin their musical ideas out of the sonic material they're working with (in whatever format), and those who have more of a plug-and-play approach, dropping fairly arbitrary sounds into a generic structure.

speaking of presets, is the breakdown in luciano's "fochedrem" a parody of recent "preset techno" or whatever nsi are talking about in philip sherburne's interview?

i think you're reading too much into this. luciano's post-father/solomon's prayer production work has been quite tame on the whole. he's fallen into his own version of "preset techno". admittedly one where the 'presets' were programmed by him in the first place. i know many on here will disagree, but he's been resting on his laurels recently as far as i'm concerned...

Hi!

Well, this is my first post on here. I'm just a young guy so don't go to rough on me (im only 17). I'm hoping Ada gets around to releasing a new album this year. Blondie is one of my all time favourites. Fizzman was pretty awesome so I'm hoping for big things. Oh, and I shall hopefully finally hear minimal techno in a club!

Am I the only one who would love to see Luciano start making Wild Pitch style stuff, you know, like the stuff he's DJing?

"but sound design is PART of the idea."

yeah i realise this was wrong as soon as i hit submit. i just hope things don't swing in the opposite direction, where sound design becomes the primary concern. as great as analogue sounds, there is a certain elitism it proposes, i kinda like how the means of production in house and techno have become democratised kinda. i guess this works only in theory though.

the second disk of the recent luciano record is very like the stuff he djs. did you dig the other side of mountain004 ronan, the wild pitch track? i thought it was great but sounded a bit too much like "bar-a-thym"

Haven't heard any of his stuff coming out on Ostgut Ton, but "Brownstone Mix 1" off this is hitting on all cylinders for me. Oh so nice.

Uh, I'm talking about Prosumer.

the new prosumer track on ostgut ton has a brilliant vocal. can't wait to hear the cassy remix

iamjosh, have you heard Ada's vocal remix of Tracey Thorn's "Grand Canyon"? Amazing. She is releasing a new album on Areal but I've heard it's not very good (who knows if this is true though - Ada's sound is out of fashion at the moment).

Sadly, neither side of the new Partial Arts is doing anything for me.

"Am I the only one who would love to see Luciano start making Wild Pitch style stuff, you know, like the stuff he's DJing?"

i think it would be interesting to hear for sure simply because his dj style is such a unique take on it. i don't think i've heard any of the european guys play house they way luciano does except for maybe villalobos. all that said, this retro-house thing is falling flat for me generally. what i am hearing in general is near flawless execution, but really limpid tracks. i seem to remember kompakt back in the day rating wild pitch and i think their twist on it was way more fresh. right now most of my favorite tracks are by producers who typically do house who are branching out to proggy trance rather than the techno guys who have dicovered house.

> She is releasing a new album on Areal but I've heard it's not very good (who knows if this is true though - Ada's sound is out of fashion at the moment).

Is it just collecting her singles since Blondie?

"i seem to remember kompakt back in the day rating wild pitch and i think their twist on it was way more fresh."

What do you think the big difference is between, say, Michael Mayer's notion of Wild Pitch and Ame's notion of Wild Pitch?

"right now most of my favorite tracks are by producers who typically do house who are branching out to proggy trance rather than the techno guys who have dicovered house."

Examples?

Jerome Syndenham comes mind, well, his rainbow delta and 1985 remix at least. Interestingly enough, earlier today I was thinking how I was starting to just get sick of the latter track (but that's just me needing to take a short break from dance music, as that is a great track), and how I've generally been gravitating toward more simple, rolling house, a la well, luciano sets.

And as to Luciano resting on his laurels. . I generally agree, for quite awhile I honestly stopped caring all that much about anything new he's put out, but as I mentioned upthread, what I've heard from his recent Cadenza release is sounding really good.

new studio, told you guys.. a 90s UK chanteuse was in there the other week.

hmmm.

yeah my care-o-meter dropped for luciano after superlooongevity 4, but i am ready to get back off the wagon

like totally off it, face in the mud of live@weetamix

sneezing out dirt for a week

i kinda like the more recent stuff. no model no tool was actually kinda brilliant at points (as an electronic record, not a dance record), and the new stuff has been doing me good.

and i love the stuff he's been doing with diva vocals. but i loves that shit.

hence my love for these Hercules tracks.

i like NMNT, too, but for different reasons. saulitude was pretty good actually. but the techno stuff? ehhhhh. i'm going to the bar soon, i will toast to the construction of his new music.

i mean, i think u and i liked NMNT fo similar reasons, which was a different reason for liking his techno.

i am watching FOXES on a large screen in my house and drinking shitloads of beer with b.

so, giorgio moroder, jodie foster, budweiser and me. who will be thinking alternately about scott baio and the mix i'm working on for wednesday.

And let us not forget that in spite of Luciano's aptitude for 'losing the audience' over the last while, his contribution to Shut Up and Dance was great nonetheless.

I need to start listening to a lot of melodic, sparse and spacey techno until this needing a break from dance music passes, something that's not made for dancing, but, well , I'm starting to sound like Geir now, so I'll just add that Move D seems to never fail me.

By which I mean, Sossa - Pinsana, (again, credit to Random Circuits on this one) is a lovely piece of Luciano-ish diva-vocal driven house.

"yeah i realise this was wrong as soon as i hit submit. i just hope things don't swing in the opposite direction, where sound design becomes the primary concern. as great as analogue sounds, there is a certain elitism it proposes, i kinda like how the means of production in house and techno have become democratised kinda. i guess this works only in theory though.

-- r1o natsume"

sound design already seems to be where 90% of the time spent on making "techno" and "house" records is in 08, i dont see how much worse it can get.

analogue production elite? haha. in fact, here is a guy's phd paper where he says that the 808 909 and 303 democratized music production:

http://folk.uio.no/hanst/Manchester/ChicagoHouse.htm

but you still had to actually care to specifically make music, you couldnt just use a laptop to bang out some nonsense. how democratic should music get anyway?

i see 08 will be off to a start not dissimilar to 07, i could find almost no references in this whole thread to anything i would actually purchase or have purchased. "bar-a-thym" (from what, 3 years ago?) was the only one!

you are always such a bring-down, cock.

"What do you think the big difference is between, say, Michael Mayer's notion of Wild Pitch and Ame's notion of Wild Pitch?"

with mayer it's more musical and with ame it is more a vibe although it really depends on which period of ame we're talking about because their sound has really changed. i should say that i am mostly familiar with the wild pitch tracks that were hits.

"Examples?"

motorcitysoul - "space kaetzle" (syndenham's blacktro penetration) - amazing track. it brings this kind of mark farina/SF sensibility to gauzy continental minimal techno. after the break, a deeper kick drops in and it is one of my favorite moments in music from the past six months or so. it is easy to miss if you're not paying attention, but it is perfect. i have not heard it out yet, but on the right system it must be like an earthquake.

and then it gets difficult to sort out the difference between techno and house influences without getting long-winded via chicken and egg discussions while simultaneously contradicting my original post, but i will list some anyway.

efdemin - "lohn and brot" (tobias remix)
ed davenport - "eyespeak"
touane - "chamber" (gorgeous, but maybe the most controversial tune in this list due to its songy-ness. i love liebe*detail!)
matt john - "soulkaramba" (it took me forever to get into this, but now i am hooked!)
radio slave - "bell clap dance" (sebo k remix) and radio slave in general especially the francois k remix
mountain people
pigon - "promises"
junior boys - "like a child" (carl craig remix)
tony allen - "ole" (moritz von oswald remix) (i discovered this late and what a gem it is)
kelley polar - "rosenband" (magic tim's instrumental) (quite possibly the missing link between border community and disco)

In reading your blog and various comments pipecock, I think our tastes run fairly similarly. You really should check out the Prosumer I mentioned above. It's call "Brownstone Mix 1" and can be heard on his myspace: http://www.myspace.com/prosumer. And I thought about mentioning "Psychotic Photosynthesis" here, but since Omar-S has his own thread I mentioned it there instead. I really enjoyed your mix up at TAPE.

Tricky I love all of these tracks that I know but what's the distinction between "Eyespeak" or "Soulkaramba" and whatever you're criticising w/r/t Luciano/Villalobos or the Romanian producers or whoever? Surely this is all part of the same tendency? (the fact that Sydenham got less housey and Matt John got more housey doesn't change the fact that they're meeting in the middle somewhere).

Or is the difficulty in drawing this distinction beyond some vague feeling your point when you say chicken and egg discussions?

And did you love Tiger Stripes' "Hooked" as well?

add melchior productions - "her majesty" to that list.

xpost, yes, i realized that a) the distinction was kind of silly and b) how difficult it actually is to pull apart who did what first when a lot of producers seem to mining their own unique territory within this proggy kind of sound. and yes, "hooked" is great as well.

I think that's why I liked the Loco Dice remix of "Son of Raw" so much. You had this track which was the signature "minimal DJs going house" track but at the same time it felt like one of Ferrer's (several) nods to Europe in the first place. And then Loco Dice/Buttrich remix it, making it simultaneously more minimal than it was, but also one of their housiest productions.

OK, so nobody responded on the Haircut Electro thread, so I'll repost here:

Is this where we can talk about Buy Now - "Body Crash". Will it live up to the hype? I played a rip of it out on Saturday and people cheered the bleepy bit.

Another amazing track is the from the forthcoming Surkin EP "White Knights Two" which I'm calling 'Strings of Good Life'.

Also, I haven't seen it mentioned yet here (and it's maybe more rock than techno or house), but Shinichi Osawa's cover of "Star Guitar" is just amazing (especially the breakdown!).

uh, spencer, not to be a meanie, but there's a reason that thread is dead.

Yeah, I didn't really get the premise.

anyway, i love the loco dice remix of "son of raw." i posted it a while back! for some reason, it always surprises me pleasantly-- very good remix.

here's a question i've wanted to ask:

serge santiago has been doing a lot of shit as of recent, and the opinion?

yeah, any sort of title like that is bound to be a dead thread.

i mean... jst the sound of it is terrible.

because i have liked his remixes (the new one of the virtualmismo track is only okay in my opinion, but definitely better than michael ho's).

especially the shit he did on that Hawkes & Parr record that came out in the late summer, i think?

"but you still had to actually care to specifically make music, you couldnt just use a laptop to bang out some nonsense. how democratic should music get anyway?"

yes but tom, in your world, any artist you don't like is a bullshit fake who probably rapes grandmas. and ones you like are not just great artists but are responsible for all the good in the world. and music is this endless battle between good and evil.

be nice, ronan, it's a new year, and all that. i think "how democratic should music get anyway?" is kind of awesome -- maybe we need a return to a bit of elitism.

i think the lesson learned from 808s and 303s is that they democratized access to music-making, in the same way that access to cheap/cracked software does today. the problem with the majority of 808/303 (etc.) fetishism today is that the instruments are being used to recreate period pieces, basically. and with so many software instruments dutifully recreating the sounds & functionality of classic gear, people are getting stuck in a rut. i don't care if people are analog or digital, software or hardware, machines or soft synths or samples, a combination, whatever, i just want to hear them listening to the sounds they're using, and letting that drive the creation of the music, rather than the current approach, which so often seems to be "ok now i need a dotted-eighth-note synth pattern that sounds like carl craig, lemme fire up my juno emulator, ok, here we go! now onto the hi-hats..."

nice=accepting that music you don't like may have merits.

"but you still had to actually care to specifically make music, you couldnt just use a laptop to bang out some nonsense. how democratic should music get anyway?"

so silly. a good track is a good track. all of these boxes and laptops and softwares are just a means to an end, they all have endless possibilities. lets just see what can be done with them. whats wrong with using something to bang out some nonsense anyway, i think a lot of producers will agree that this is how some of the best ideas come about!

that luciano mix is so lovely! i always find big dj mixes difficult for home listening, but doing a bit of excercise to this last night revealed some real gems. anyone know of a tracklisting anywhere? couple of tracks i'd love to own. whats that "i get deep, i get deeper into the vibe.... why? why? what?... they just strut, what the fuck" vocal from?

http://www.discogs.com/release/25010

hey sherbs, you started a thread a week or two ago that I can't find, asking about some artist I don't remember, now that I have access to my records again. any chance you could point me to it?

thanks blunt! xp

what about 'don't take it' by armando? did that get mentioned last year. it's not really a new song but it's new to listeners. i like it. it's not as accomplished as his other stuff but for a live take it's incredible.

i did? i have NO idea.....

Opinions on the new M.A.N.D.Y. Fabric mix?

^ Well mixed, but not particularly memorable for me. I did appreciate seeing tracks/remixes from Perspectiv guys like Mark August, Lucy and Prinz.

I guess I'm talking about something besides techno/house bobbins.

Speaking of Hawkes and Parr (well they got a mention a few posts back), I am really enjoying their mix of Skat's 'Nightlife' on Karat.

I like that Prosumer 'Brownstone' 12" too though it took me awhile to get into it - now pretty excited about getting hold of 'Turn Around' and his album on Osgut Ton (looks like vinyl versions will be different from the cd(?) which could be interesting).

i think the problem with laptop house and techno is not that it is easier to make tracks now. 20 years ago the same exact argument could have been made about the roland boxes and the first house tracks. it seems to me that this kind of criticism is just a variation on "it all sounds the same" which is really just odd.

There will always be old people and moany cunts.

"You really should check out the Prosumer I mentioned above. It's call "Brownstone Mix 1"

-- matt2"

ill check that one out. to be honest, even when he plays all those old chicago records, something about anything ive heard from him just doesnt do it for me. i dont hate on him (like i do most of the other stuff mentioned) but i havent been impressed so far.

"yes but tom, in your world, any artist you don't like is a bullshit fake who probably rapes grandmas. and ones you like are not just great artists but are responsible for all the good in the world. and music is this endless battle between good and evil.

-- Ronan"

you have it backwards, i dont pick and choose random artists and then banish the rest to crappiness. i just listen and decide, then i love the good artists. its all that simple, really. and its not about good vs evil, its about good vs bad music. well, i guess bad music is pretty evil. you may actually be right for once!

"i think 'how democratic should music get anyway?' is kind of awesome -- maybe we need a return to a bit of elitism."

i'm not sure elitism is what i had in mind, but the idea of people working towards being able to make something great seems to be lost. people just sit down and bang some crap out, and it seems like they expect it to be as good as anything else just because the tools have been democratized. that is of course not the case.

"i think the lesson learned from 808s and 303s is that they democratized access to music-making, in the same way that access to cheap/cracked software does today. the problem with the majority of 808/303 (etc.) fetishism today is that the instruments are being used to recreate period pieces, basically. and with so many software instruments dutifully recreating the sounds & functionality of classic gear, people are getting stuck in a rut. i don't care if people are analog or digital, software or hardware, machines or soft synths or samples, a combination, whatever, i just want to hear them listening to the sounds they're using, and letting that drive the creation of the music, rather than the current approach, which so often seems to be "ok now i need a dotted-eighth-note synth pattern that sounds like carl craig, lemme fire up my juno emulator, ok, here we go! now onto the hi-hats..."

-- pshrbrn"

exactly, the basic idea of "i just use this gear [be it 808 or ableton] and what i do will be good" is just wrong and lazy as all hell. in the more extreme examples, you have people spending lots of time on production values and nearly no time on ideas. sure, you might make something that sounds "professionally recorded" or whatever, but it doesnt move anyone. and that is a problem for sure!

"i think the problem with laptop house and techno is not that it is easier to make tracks now. 20 years ago the same exact argument could have been made about the roland boxes and the first house tracks. it seems to me that this kind of criticism is just a variation on "it all sounds the same" which is really just odd."

Yeah this is what i was thinking, tricky. Surely the use of 808s, 909s, samplers, sequencers, etc. in the early to mid-90s was typified by as much equipment-determined track-writing as today's music is. The difference perhaps being that with advanced digital software we now almost expect not to be able to work out how tracks were made even if we are familiar with the software it was made on.

But as usual when pipecock gets involved this argument is totally circular - the conclusion that "too many of these records don't move anyone" pave the way for the simplistic conclusion that "these records are essentially software demonstrations". There have always been records that "don't move anyone" - or rather, "don't move" the speaker, who then assumes that this lack of impact is universal - it's this assumption, and a refusal to think about the fact of being moved or not moved except in terms of impossibly broad sweeping statements about The State Of Music Today, this rather than battles of good vs evil, which undermines pipecock's stature as a potentially useful member of any debate on this issue.

The criticism that phil is making, for example, seems to be more about copycat tracks than anything else, but neither he nor anyone else is calling out specific producers (except pipecock who would just put everything in this thread in this category; someone upthread vaguely criticized Luciano for getting too lost in his own unique software production style - which hardly seems to fit this argument) - the one reference phil makes to an actual record is a hypothetical carl craig rip-off.

But then, no-one ever tends to mention actual records in these discussions - either because a) they haven't bothered to learn their names, indeed heard them once and mentally discarded them, or b) they're unreleased demo tracks sent to the speaker which have never been released (phil, feel free to add a (c) here which I'm not aware of).

It would be great for a big well-known producer - and not just Dubfire etc. but people who are critically regarded like, I dunno, Pan-Pot or someone - to get explicitly called out w/r/t this issue. But then I don't think people who are into the scene (so excluding pipecock) tend to actually think that all the producers who are getting breathless write-ups (and this year that would be Efdemin, the Romanians, Villalobos as usual, etc.) are actually creatively moribund.

Instead it seems the only way this issue is ever raised is in the following manner: "against an unidentified sea of uncreative copycat software-based tracks, (insert x producer) stands out as a creative analogue saviour." It seems to me to be a flourish of rhetoric more than anything else: wouldn't it be just as meaningful simply to say, "no-one else in the scene is doing what (insert x producer) is doing with analogue gear..."

But leaving aside issues of rhetoric, what is the precise cause of this copycat software-track phenomenon (assuming it exists)? Let's turn to the reasons postulated above.

If it's (a), then yeah, it's "all these records sound the same", and the bigger problem with democratization must surely be the fact that too many records are being released on too many record labels.

If it's (b), I don't know why anyone except the unlucky critic who receives all these crap demos should care - we should take comfort in the fact that they are demos.

Both arguments, but especially (b), tie into a broader 'art in the age of mechanical reproduction' wistful complaint about the loss of aura in an age where software can do the work for you (strictly speaking Benjamin's essay now requires a sequel to talk about the changed dynamic w/r/t "the age of digital production") - "the aura" in this case is that sense of awe at the sound emerging from the speakers when you think "I could never make that sound and wouldn't know where to begin".

I wonder to what extent beginning to produce stuff yourself deals a fatal blow to the possibility of regularly experiencing this awe in the same field of music as that in which you produce... It ties in with the way that once people start DJing professionally they seem to become much less excited by other DJs' really well-executed transitions. The "I know exactly how they pulled that off" realisation tends to undercut the excitement-factor somewhat.

pipecock, do you rate "synthetic flemm"?

"Yeah this is what i was thinking, tricky. Surely the use of 808s, 909s, samplers, sequencers, etc. in the early to mid-90s was typified by as much equipment-determined track-writing as today's music is."

i really don't think so. let's look at the advent of music such as jungle: the guys originally making it were using the same sequencers and samplers as everyone else, yet they did radically different things with it. they used the same tools as hiphop and techno producers, yet their music sounded exactly like neither. today, everything sounds the damn same from pop music to underground techno: overly polished DSP nonsense.

"But as usual when pipecock gets involved this argument is totally circular - the conclusion that "too many of these records don't move anyone" pave the way for the simplistic conclusion that "these records are essentially software demonstrations". There have always been records that "don't move anyone" - or rather, "don't move" the speaker, who then assumes that this lack of impact is universal - it's this assumption, and a refusal to think about the fact of being moved or not moved except in terms of impossibly broad sweeping statements about The State Of Music Today, this rather than battles of good vs evil, which undermines pipecock's stature as a potentially useful member of any debate on this issue."

so you believe that all music is exactly the same quality, as long as someone listening to it likes it, it is good? what a stupid fucking argument. either you agree that that is the case, or you think that some music is simply better than others. it has to be one or the other.

"The criticism that phil is making, for example, seems to be more about copycat tracks than anything else"

i guess you could think that. or you could read it as him saying that people are just using sounds without meaning behind them, which is a whole other can of worms and is of course much more interesting and much more to the point of why there are so many bad tracks.

"but neither he nor anyone else is calling out specific producers (except pipecock who would just put everything in this thread in this category; someone upthread vaguely criticized Luciano for getting too lost in his own unique software production style - which hardly seems to fit this argument) - the one reference phil makes to an actual record is a hypothetical carl craig rip-off."

as if there are no real carl craig ripoffs. ha. shit, he released some of them on his own label for people to fawn over, "full clip" being the most obvious example.

"But then, no-one ever tends to mention actual records in these discussions - either because a) they haven't bothered to learn their names, indeed heard them once and mentally discarded them, or b) they're unreleased demo tracks sent to the speaker which have never been released (phil, feel free to add a (c) here which I'm not aware of)."

shit man, i listen to enough music that i can barely remember all the good shit that i buy much less the name of terrible tracks by hack producers. maybe youre into cataloging how terrible these guys are, but i dont find that a interesting or fun way to spend my energy.

"It would be great for a big well-known producer - and not just Dubfire etc. but people who are critically regarded like, I dunno, Pan-Pot or someone - to get explicitly called out w/r/t this issue. But then I don't think people who are into the scene (so excluding pipecock) tend to actually think that all the producers who are getting breathless write-ups (and this year that would be Efdemin, the Romanians, Villalobos as usual, etc.) are actually creatively moribund."

what "scene" am i not into? the "techno" scene? or maybe this joke that calls itself "techno" that isnt related to actual techno music. in that case, i agree, i am not part of it. but if youre going to call it techno or any variation of techno/house or any of their subgenres, that IS the scene i am into. and this shit isnt cutting it. i'll call out any number of producers that people love.

"Instead it seems the only way this issue is ever raised is in the following manner: "against an unidentified sea of uncreative copycat software-based tracks, (insert x producer) stands out as a creative analogue saviour." It seems to me to be a flourish of rhetoric more than anything else: wouldn't it be just as meaningful simply to say, "no-one else in the scene is doing what (insert x producer) is doing with analogue gear..."

it might be meaningful if there was a meaningful number of people still working that way. instead, comparatively few people use real gear and of the biggest names, very very few do. but its not just about analogue, i assume most of what carl craig does these days is done in the computer, yet he still blows everyone else away.

"If it's (a), then yeah, it's "all these records sound the same", and the bigger problem with democratization must surely be the fact that too many records are being released on too many record labels."

you certainly wont hear me discount that. though at this point, it doesnt seem to be records or record labels, more like mp3s and mp3 "labels" that are pushing out tons of crap.

"I wonder to what extent beginning to produce stuff yourself deals a fatal blow to the possibility of regularly experiencing this awe in the same field of music as that in which you produce... It ties in with the way that once people start DJing professionally they seem to become much less excited by other DJs' really well-executed transitions. The "I know exactly how they pulled that off" realisation tends to undercut the excitement-factor somewhat.

-- Tim F"

this is EXACTLY what i am talking about. if the extent of your fascination with techno and house is the awe of not understanding how something was made, youre in it for the wrong reasons. if you like watching deejays to see them do something you can't, youre in it for the wrong reasons. if that is what makes you excited, you should go take an audio engineering course and give up deejaying and music making. techno and house are not about that, but the records coming out now ARE about trying to make something "new" sounding. and so is the "laptop deejaying making all your own edits of things" approach. who gives a fuck? make something GOOD sounding and then we can talk. everything else is just bullshit.

"pipecock, do you rate "synthetic flemm"?

-- tricky"

it's not my favorite thing on theo's album, but it's alright. i usually play out "the rink" or "soul control", but i would consider dropping it.

As I said pipecock, you rule yourself out as a useful contributor to this debate by the ridiculousness of your overall position. i've gone over most of the broader issues re this with you in the burial thread so I'm not going to bother to engage here I'm afraid.

If it makes you feel better, feel free to assume that i've ceded the argument to you.

"As I said pipecock, you rule yourself out as a useful contributor to this debate by the ridiculousness of your overall position. i've gone over most of the broader issues re this with you in the burial thread so I'm not going to bother to engage here I'm afraid.

If it makes you feel better, feel free to assume that i've ceded the argument to you.

-- Tim F"

what's funny is that despite all the arguments i ever have, there is no ceding shit because you dont even have an argument. what exactly is ridiculous about my position? that it doesnt jive with the interweb blog definition of techno? do you think i give a fuck about that? techno music and culture was around in real life before idiots who don't know shit started making shit up about it on the web. so you can call my position ridiculous and condescendingly tell me that you've ceded the argument to me all you fucking want. it doesnt make you or ronan any less fucking clueless.

you should be less obnoxious

I think my following post in the Burial thread sums up why I see no point engaging with your specific arguments, pipecock:

Except to say that this argument:

"of course if you took their music and played it on some acoustic instruments and drums, it would still be captivating, unlike so the genres that rely specifically on electronic tricks."

... seems so consummately antithetical to my whole notion of the value of dance music, that from my perspective it verges on Geir-like levels of bizarro.

http://constitutionclub.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/yawn8hm.jpg

Or this:

i can't force you to be able to understand music you don't understand. and as i said upthread (also numerous times!), what is great about what music does is that it communicates things that cannot be put into words. maybe you like the stream of consciousness crapola that comes out when people try to explain that (i dont!), or maybe youre interested in people criticising music on technical merits or something (irrelevent). i cant say. all i know is that when something moves me, it moves me. i dont prefer to analyse it any more than trying to understand WHY

That's a pipecock quote BTW.

eh, i think you both are making each other seem much crazier than you are. maybe you should invest in a killfile?

i just love being talked down to by someone who thinks that the things that make music sound good dont apply to dance music. i can't do anything to make that sound crazier than it is.

"it's not my favorite thing on theo's album, but it's alright. i usually play out "the rink" or "soul control", but i would consider dropping it."

i like "the rink" a lot although i was kinda disappointed in the album as a whole. but anyway, "synthetic flemm" is not that different from a lot of contemporary digital tracky house (in structure at least) which is why i brought it up. it sounds like it was done in one take, has a sampled drum loop that i have heard sampled on other records, an analog bassline tricked out through filter sweeps and other low-tech analog fx, some extra sampled drums sounds, and that's it. so does this track get a pass just because it's theo parrish? none of the things i described about the track are negatives in my book and i am guessing that they aren't in yours either so why attack a new producer for trying the same things? surely not all '07/'08 tracky house doesn't pass the test.

eh, i think you both are making each other seem much crazier than you are. maybe you should invest in a killfile?

-- elan, Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:35 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

lol yes tim and pipecock, two peas in a pod

I'm actually about to post about how Sebo K's "Far Out" is indistinguishable from the Myspace hordes and unfitting of its title. Just thought you should all know.

So... no one has heard "Body Crash"???

The new Surkin track "White Knights Two" is my favorite house track in a long time.

I listened on Sebo K's page and it seemed really generic (not terrible though).

Did we ever get an ID 70 minutes into that Luciano set? My goodness what a killer...

Whatever it is it's jawdropping.

Could anyone ID the track at the 1:40:00 mark. I've heard this track enough to know it's every movement, but can't for the life of me remember what it is. It's always those tracks I know and can't remember that bother me the most.

2000 + one - funk that

or if you mean 140 mins, mso + feos' further and further (he's been playing this for about 3 years)

can somebody re-up the luciano @ silo mix? i think it's gone.

seconded

"i like "the rink" a lot although i was kinda disappointed in the album as a whole."

i wouldnt say i was disappointed in the album, but its not really a listening album in any way so its hard to get excited about it. it could have worked as 3 separate 12"s and been fine, but i appreciate the artwork with the LP.

"but anyway, "synthetic flemm" is not that different from a lot of contemporary digital tracky house (in structure at least) which is why i brought it up. it sounds like it was done in one take, has a sampled drum loop that i have heard sampled on other records, an analog bassline tricked out through filter sweeps and other low-tech analog fx, some extra sampled drums sounds, and that's it."

at least for me, what makes tracks like that and the TOM Project record interesting is that they are done really live, simply, etc. its almost the exact opposite from the thought-out almost "progressive house" sounding effects and noises that the digital guys seem interested in doing.

"so does this track get a pass just because it's theo parrish? none of the things i described about the track are negatives in my book and i am guessing that they aren't in yours either so why attack a new producer for trying the same things? surely not all '07/'08 tracky house doesn't pass the test.

-- tricky"

well let me just say that i am not against tracky house in any way. but if youre going to do that kind of thing, i think its all about doing it quick and fast in that live style, that was something that made the old chicago records interesting as well.

that said, theo gets a pass on almost anything he does even when it is not successful (like a bunch of the Rotating Assembly tracks) simply because of the amount of things that he tries that are not conventional and DO work well. with carl craig, omar-s, and basic channel/r&s, i am the same way. i'm not going to expect any single artist to always get it right on the money, but you have to TRY different things. if youre wildly successful 75% of the time doing distinctive shit, that's way better than just about everyone else out there.

i think that's exactly why people went nuts for perlon.

i like the nu proggy stuff because it stands in stark relief to both tracky house and the post-perlon minimal sound of the past few years. all three types have their standout tracks though. the proggy stuff that emphasizes a house sound is interesting to me because traditional progressive house was house pretty much in name only.

A fight to the death over copycat software issues in techno? In 2008? Sorry, but I can't take any of this seriously. Isn't the issue of copycatting software/loops/synth leads/whatever just the payola problem of dance music? It's always been around in some form, and it always will be, but more importantly, aren't the reasons for this fairly self-evident? Is there anything about current "copycat-ism" that is fundamentally different from everyone using the same rave sirens c. 1991 or everyone trying to sound like Autechre c. 2000, or plenty of other examples that we could spend all day listing? I mean, who cares?

can you all ID this track? i found a pack of whitelabels with no info, but the song sounds familiar. i've definitely heard it before.

here is a sample: http://www.sendspace.com/file/h0ve23

-- elan, Thursday, December 27, 2007 7:20 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Link

that track is DJ DOZIA BLAKE - POP KULTURE #1 on josh wink's OVUM RECORDINGS

-- moonship journey to baja, Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:46 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Link

you probably heard it on wink's own "profound sounds vol 1", still one of the greatest dub-techno mixes ever

-- moonship journey to baja, Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:47 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Link

$hit is money

plz to send, elan.

also, pipecock....well, i think that i might just agree with you here. i mean, i still get excited by some of the stuff you're bashing, but i've gotten increasingly disenchanted in the same way you have.

give me my UR or omar-s records over most shit any day.

Luciano Siloclub set

Thanks for the Funk That ID, now to find out where know it from.

less yappin' more trackin'

Booka Shade and Ricardo Villalobos - Dance Department 2007-12-16

I think this is still minimal bobbins.

spencer is the surkin track you're talking about the 'untitled' one from the justice essential mix? i really dug that one.

"I think this is still minimal bobbins."

why settle for red zinfandel when you can have sauvignon blanc as well

i would have dance with all this bobbins

no the surkin track is called "white knights two" and it sounds like some early 90s pop house and is also one of my favorite tracks right now

listening to the Surkin track now - it rules

Haitch, not sure because Justice simply call it "Next of Kin" which is the title of Surkin's forthcoming EP. It is also EXCELLENT. I am indeed talking about "White Knights Two" which I love love love and on another thread call it "Strings of Good Life".

The criticism that phil is making, for example, seems to be more about copycat tracks than anything else, but neither he nor anyone else is calling out specific producers (except pipecock who would just put everything in this thread in this category; someone upthread vaguely criticized Luciano for getting too lost in his own unique software production style - which hardly seems to fit this argument) - the one reference phil makes to an actual record is a hypothetical carl craig rip-off.

But then, no-one ever tends to mention actual records in these discussions - either because a) they haven't bothered to learn their names, indeed heard them once and mentally discarded them, or b) they're unreleased demo tracks sent to the speaker which have never been released (phil, feel free to add a (c) here which I'm not aware of).

absolutely correct.

nobody who says "blah blah identikit tracks" ever names producers, either because they utterly despise the genre (tom) or for the reasons you suggested.

Even if there is a sea of shit music, the duty is to find the tracks that aren't part of it, of which there are plenty. I don't hear any Carl Craig rips at the moment (keeping in mind that "Full Clip" came out aeons ago).

I'm actually a bit disappointed and surprised by, as tricky said, how close this all sails to the "dance music all sounds the same" and indeed, how the criticisms of current stuff or "trendy" stuff actually mirror almost word for word the criticisms an avowed non dance fan would make of the entire genre in one fell sweep.

here's a permanent link for the luciano thing if anyone wants it, or missed out on the megaupload

Ronan and Tim so obviously correct, let's move on to more bobbins (and not just minimal).

(with apologies to Spencer) No one would complain about "Full Clip" if Buttrich was from Detroit. Then it would be "raw, authentic, true, soulful", its (really only tenuous) similarity to Craig a sign of its participation in a legacy whose roots stretch into the concrete bowels of the motor city and whose branches stretch up and out towards an intergalactic celestial utopia.

Such a poetic oh snap.

x-post plus obviously Carl Craig likes it (and Ripperton, and Loco Dice, and countless other Euro acts that are "trendy), but who is he to overrule Tom Pipecock when it comes to Detroit techno

The sad thing is that the Ican record came out on Planet E right around the same time and is about 10x better.

granted basement Mexican techno bobbins can't compete with german techno bobbins with industry support.

"(with apologies to Spencer) No one would complain about "Full Clip" if Buttrich was from Detroit. Then it would be "raw, authentic, true, soulful", its (really only tenuous) similarity to Craig a sign of its participation in a legacy whose roots stretch into the concrete bowels of the motor city and whose branches stretch up and out towards an intergalactic celestial utopia.

-- Tim F"

that is craziness. the entire sound palette of the record is a rip off of the style carl has been rocking for the past 4+ years.

"x-post plus obviously Carl Craig likes it (and Ripperton, and Loco Dice, and countless other Euro acts that are "trendy), but who is he to overrule Tom Pipecock when it comes to Detroit techno

-- Ronan"

not sure if you noticed (actually, im sure you havent) but there was a long while where nothing came out on planet e aside from rereleases of carl's stuff and carl's new shit. he was having payment problems with the last stable of artists. now, apparently, he feels the need to make sure the label stays profitable by putting out the good shit (ican, vince watson, paris live) and the shit that will sell (buttrich, lazy fat people [whose only saving grace is the c2 mix], that nonsense KMS rmx). those records are amongst the worst ever released on planet e.

didn't see this one before...

"The sad thing is that the Ican record came out on Planet E right around the same time and is about 10x better.

-- Display Name"

it is so true. that was one of the best 12"s of the past few years, they killed it.

not sure if you noticed. (actually, im sure you havent)

Not saying that "Full Clip" doesn't sounds like Carl Craig - it definitely does - but no more than (indeed, a great deal less than), say, DeepChord sounds like Basic Channel. Indeed one of the qualities that "Full Clip" shares with a lot of Craig's productions is that the melodies and riffs stick in your head more than the specific sound of the record. Whereas the reverse is true for post-Basic Channel stuff.

And yet the very same people who tend to rubbish stuff like Buttrich rally around producers like Deepchord.

Or, like, lets look at the entire tradition of US house, which runs on increasingly infinitesimal distinctions between production aesthetics.

Records sounding similar isn't always a bad thing!

But of course asking someone to explain why it is in the particular case of "Full Clip" beyond some vague allusions to soul etc. is clearly a step too far.

how do you know carl craig doesn't actually like those records tom? his last chart that I saw had stuff on Cadenza/Simple/International Deejay Gigolo etc....plus he obviously likes Ripperton since not only did he sign him he also included him on his Fabric mix.

plus if he was releasing those records purely for the money, wouldn't that make him, oh I dunno, just as bad as all the mnml artists you lambast?

so which is it? he either is one of them, or he wants to make cash as heinously as they do by releasing awful soulless shit?

or perhaps he just likes their music...

At this point in time Carl Craig has seen his fortunes rise and fall, and yes, I think he is a lot more commercially minded these days. There is a market in Europe, and it's tastes are a a bit different.

xp Ronan

Full Clip just isn't that interesting. I don't hate it or have any venom towards Buttrich. It is supposed to be an anthem record, but there are a lot of other anthem records in the Detroit cannon that I would rather listen to. I own a copy but I have played it out exactly once.

I am not going to bang on about soul or funk or whatever, it just doesn't get my blood up. There a lots of "real" Detroit records that don't turn me on either.

I don't even love "Full Clip" (exact same with me, own it but don't think I've ever played it, too trancey and not just where European=trancey, plenty of Detroit inspired stuff is too trancey for me, particularly people trying to ape Rolando, just bores me) I just think it's funny how CC gets cut all this slack.

Actually there is a really great thread of latin tinged Detroit records that came out after Rolando's success with Jaguar. Blackwater being the most obvious, but Aguila was/is very underrated. Los Hermanos put out a string of great records that never get any love around here. I have to mention Ican again, because that is the kind of stuff that should be getting love around here and isn't.

CC gets cut slack because his touch is deft enough that he is brilliant even when he is being commercial. He is the best turd-polisher in the business.

well of course mike you'd actually rise to the challenge of saying something useful and explicable about the record rather than resort to buzz words.

To be honest "Full Clip" isn't even a favourite of mine (although I like it, primarily for the life support machine breakdown) - however several Loco Dice records and remixes are, and Buttrich's remix of Tracey Thorn is one of my favourite tracks of 2008. So if "Full Clip" isn't a personal anthem chez moi, I have to assume that this is because there's something I can pinpoint in the track itself that prevents it from being so, rather than something about Buttrich per se. It seems that you also take this approach mike.

It's generally the notion that producers are either genuine artistes or soulless Euro craftsmen that I find so objectionable. A) because it's an either/or position that is blithely disregarding of how music (esp. dance music) actually works. B) Because we get closer to understanding what makes records good or not good when we acknowledge at the outset that most of the time "art" is in fact really well-executed craft.

Okay, so, it's more confusing to call something like Bradock's "Rhapsody in Pain" "craft", but if that track escapes such a definition, it's only by abandoning dancefloor functionalism entirely.

People deciding that they want to listen to Underground Resistance rather than (insert European producer) is all well and good, I just don't see why it needs to be propped up by some elaborate notion of true believers vs corporate deceivers. Maybe it's just that some people like the sound of those records more!

ha ha x-post with Ronan!

"I just don't see why it needs to be propped up by some elaborate notion of true believers vs corporate deceivers"

i think that, at some point, this kind of us vs. them rhetoric actually meant something and it means less now, not because one side has won, but because culture has become more globalized. ironically enough we can point to things like the detroit-berlin axis as starting this global techno culture off, too.

Submerge would like to sincerely thank everybody for yet another year of underground music! Is vinyl dead?Is Detroit dead? Well according to all of you guys...................hell fuck naw!! We are like the energizer bunny while others fall off and die we just keep going and going and going!! Speaking of "falling off" it is becoming apparent that many large distributors and retailers are falling off. And often this worries people as to the life expentancy of vinyl. Do not fear!! Its simple...........................when you sell bullshit.................eventually people figure it out!! When you buy according to the latest magazines and fads that feature the latest $3000 a month publicist backed artists dont feel bad when people dont buy the shit cause it doesnt work on the dancefloor!! This music lives,breathes and dies on top of some 1200's and in the hearts of the people dancing to it. No amount of publicity, hype or fashion can dress up a turd or purchase a child of the underground. So people UR truly the spirit that keeps all of this alive. We will continue to struggle with our low fi, basement/bedroom productions,edited by crazy ass Floyd on the 1/4" 2 track,artwork by Haqq or Frankie on their Mac's,mastered by grumpy ass Ron Murphy, plated by Desmond @ Mastercraft, pressed by Mike, Kenny or Andy at Archers on the eastside, picked up by one of my "just outta jail" or "addict in recovery" crew who i always have to give a job to or it just wouldnt be me, packed and shipped by my sister Bridgette in a recycled box thats probably been around the world 10 times and pissed on by my dog Tank and then faithfully picked up by our UPS man Matt everyday at 4pm and shipped to "Everywhere, Planet Earth zip code 33 1/3. When this much reality and soul touches every record you buy from here it really makes a digital download seem quite void and vunerable. Circles have no end!! Long Live Vinyl and Happy New Years to you and yours....................................Mad Mike/UR/Submerge

xpost

the flipside of this is that if you live in america (like i do), us vs. them still makes sense in terms of race and class. and i would have to believe that it is not like artists do not want to move beyond this position, but they are hampered because the culture at large has not caught up.

and you know, part of the beauty of detroit techno and chicago house is that it is largely the sound of struggle so to see affluent white dudes jacking the sound/culture can be a bit of a kick in the teeth. it can render the discussion of the actual music moot because culturally it's kind of fucked.

mastered by grumpy ass Ron Murphy

:(

Speaking of which, I cannot be the only one who found that Trus'me record to be rather flimsy.

damn, you know it is a party when Andy K shows up.

xpost

the flipside of this is that if you live in america (like i do), us vs. them still makes sense in terms of race and class. and i would have to believe that it is not like artists do not want to move beyond this position, but they are hampered because the culture at large has not caught up.

and you know, part of the beauty of detroit techno and chicago house is that it is largely the sound of struggle so to see affluent white dudes jacking the sound/culture can be a bit of a kick in the teeth. it can render the discussion of the actual music moot because culturally it's kind of fucked.

otm

Very funny, Display Name.

i thought the same thing actually.

imagine my surprise after gushing over liebe*detail upthread and finding the guest mix on ronan's blog! :D

"the flipside of this is that if you live in america (like i do), us vs. them still makes sense in terms of race and class. and i would have to believe that it is not like artists do not want to move beyond this position, but they are hampered because the culture at large has not caught up.

and you know, part of the beauty of detroit techno and chicago house is that it is largely the sound of struggle so to see affluent white dudes jacking the sound/culture can be a bit of a kick in the teeth. it can render the discussion of the actual music moot because culturally it's kind of fucked."

See, I can totally accept this, but it's one thing to say "socio-cultural considerations override musical considerations in this case", and another to say "these socio-considerations magically express themselves as musical considerations which neither you nor I can identify nor describe, they're just there."

To use an entirely different example, i have friends who say "i don't understand how you can like dancehall so much when so much of it is homophobic."

Obv i have a different position to them but it's a more reasonable basis upon which to engage in discussion than when someone says "Oh, dancehall is awful music! Don't you know all those guys are homophobic?"

In the first position, there is an acknowledgment that considerations of music, politics and identity are at once all separate yet still inter-related. Whereas in the second the actual relationships between these different considerations are simply collapsed.

and you know, part of the beauty of detroit techno and chicago house is that it is largely the sound of struggle so to see affluent white dudes jacking the sound/culture can be a bit of a kick in the teeth. it can render the discussion of the actual music moot because culturally it's kind of fucked.

is this why so many affluent white dudes with a passion for failure/negativity identify with it?

as regards Rolando, I liked Aguila at the time, I have it somewhere. And Quetzal too. It was more the Euros imitating Rolando I meant that bored me.

And as for CC being cut slack, I meant as regards who he chooses to release/what he plays. It seems to suggest he likes those artists or else, as you guys said, wants to make money. This is treated as a venal sin for other acts....

But you know, I actually think he likes their music! Or he just isn't particularly militant about European versions of Detroit music.

Speaking of which, I cannot be the only one who found that Trus'me record to be rather flimsy.

+1

care to expound?

OK.

it's a decent record, and i really like a couple of the tracks ('drilling', particularly). i just don't see the big deal, on the whole.

it's mainly somewhat inferior rehashes of other people's moves (could 'at the disco' be any more of an obvious kdj rip? come on) with occasional questionable tendencies -- flute solos, a 'tasteful' downtempo atmosphere. (and i love black mahogany in spite of it sharing these tendencies, so perhaps my problem comes down to the dreaded unrefutable 'feeling' argument cited several times above).

more specifically, i think 'W.A.R.' is quite horrendously trite (yeah, marvin, soulful. and it's certainly no 'tribute'.). and disjointed, especially when it's shifting into the more 'uptempo' second section. (the B side of the 12", which takes the sub from the second section and runs with it froms start->finish, is better).

"(and i love black mahogany in spite of it sharing these tendencies, so perhaps my problem comes down to the dreaded unrefutable 'feeling' argument cited several times above)."

I don't see how the first part of this sentence slides inexorably into the second.

Frank Kogan has a good point about how the very quality that seems hatable in one performer will always be loveable in at least one other performer. This is not where thinking should stop, but where it should start.

One thing that needs to be moved beyond is the notion that particular musical qualities are per se good or bad. It's always a case of their context: how they are deployed, and the combination and specific articulation of musical qualities being drawn upon.

i'm not feeling that Trus'Me stuff either, very derivative and not really very interesting.

as for Carl Craig getting a pass: he is the greatest techno musician of all time. he gets a pass for whatever he wants to do. even his weakest moments (and the weakest Planet E releases) are not as bad as 90% of the other crap out there. maybe he likes the euro sounding joints he has been releasing, maybe he doesn't. i can't really say. but the guy knows his market, he knows where most people buying the Fabric mix are living. he knows where most of the vinyl sales go. everytime i've seen him spin (always in the US of course) he hasn't really played much euro sounding stuff outside of classic italo.

"It was more the Euros imitating Rolando I meant that bored me.

-- Ronan"

hahahaha.

"In the first position, there is an acknowledgment that considerations of music, politics and identity are at once all separate yet still inter-related. Whereas in the second the actual relationships between these different considerations are simply collapsed.

-- Tim F"

music, politics, and identity are not separate yet interrelated. they are all the same thing. you can't separate your identity from your music (unless you are a robot. a real robot, not a pretend one like Kraftwerk or Daft Punk) and your identity and history shapes your politics. you can't have just one and not the other.

it's funny you would compare the sounds of the "struggle" of detroit and chicago producers to the homophobia of dancehall lyrics. one is based on ignorance pushed by religion, one is based on the way life is for a group of people. it's not really similar.

hahahaha.

don't know why you're laughing since you did an entire blog post about Chymera. what is the difference between his approach and Martin Buttrich's?

besides the fact that he probably emailed you and fed your gigantic ego.

"music, politics, and identity are not separate yet interrelated. they are all the same thing"

music is the same thing as politics? how does this work exactly? they are the exact same thing?

Rolls eyes into back of head

CC in a forthcoming interview on RA: "It’s not a conscious move to put out music that’s European. It’s a conscious move to put out music that I like. If it’s interesting, I put out."

that settles that then

okay.

the culture at large has not caught up.

Perhaps the culture at large (ie- MTV, GQ, Vogue, whatever) hasn't caught up, but the music culture certainly has. people slobber over carl craig, and UR have has big features on them in three magazines-- one of them a cover story-- in the past four months. just sayin'.

on "Full Clip": i was over it pretty soon. but if, like me, you're often playing to people who don't know shit about techno, it is a life-saver. kids go fucking insane when i play that track.

on CC as label mogul: he releases lots of good stuff that doesn't get any love, and lots of bland stuff that people slobber over. Vince Watson's record on planet-e that came out a while back is really gorgeous techno, yet after his RA pdcast of last year, most people seemed to forget that the guy existed....again. Lazy Fat People's tracks are overwhelmingly boring affairs, and Mirko (from LFP) played the most hackneyed, awful DJ set i've ever witnessed when i saw him last summer. it totally made me lose faith a bit.

on CC as producer/musician: i can't agree with pipecock about him being the best techno musician of all time. he's certainly among the top five, methinks.

on CC as a DJ: motherfucker needs to throw that Serato shit to the curb. last two times i saw him, there was not a single point where i was like, "this guy is killing me." whereas the two times before that, he destroyed me and had me sweating more than i ever have whilst dancing. which times was he using serato? the bad times. which times was he using ableton or actually playing records? the good times.

also, Los Hermanos do deserve much more love. i'm pretty much of the opinion that UR and offshoots are paradoxically the most praised and the most underrated out of any group that's ever worked in techno.

Also: LFP's 'Club Silencio' was an achingly sweet record.

Los Hermanos do deserve much more love

there is plenty of love for los hermanos in the archives of this message board.

"Perhaps the culture at large (ie- MTV, GQ, Vogue, whatever) hasn't caught up, but the music culture certainly has. people slobber over carl craig, and UR have has big features on them in three magazines-- one of them a cover story-- in the past four months. just sayin'."

point taken, but i am referring to american culture writ large not lifestyle magazines (which specialize on puff pieces not real criticism or journalism anyway. they are largely driven by marketing). check out spike lee's documentary on hurricane katrina; that's what i am talking about.

"is this why so many affluent white dudes with a passion for failure/negativity identify with it?"

i hope not and i'm not sure where that comes from honestly. for me, it is pretty much about exactly the opposite and as much as it is undeniably about struggle, the music itself has no race or class and it should help us transcend those boundaries. in a lot of respects it does.

the last los hermanos thing i heard was their remix of robert hood from last year which was great.

Ronan, no need to be smart-alecky-- i know that. i just want more love for them on bobbins threads, not the UR or Los Hermanos or Submerge threads that people post to for a bit then forget about.

tricky, i know what you mean. i think i just wanted a bit more clarification, which you just gave.

"don't know why you're laughing since you did an entire blog post about Chymera. what is the difference between his approach and Martin Buttrich's?

besides the fact that he probably emailed you and fed your gigantic ego.

-- Ronan"

hahahahaha. that's good, i like it. it's funny though, Chymera and I were on a techno production email list years and years ago, i followed his shit from afar since then without knowing the guy at all. when he started banging out the new shit he's been doing, i was all about it and that's when we started talking. so it is of course the complete opposite from what you insinuate. but i like the attitude!

"music is the same thing as politics? how does this work exactly? they are the exact same thing?

-- Ronan"

you politics are based on your experiences. so is your identity. your identity is what makes music yours. its really that simple. you cannot separate these things.

"also, Los Hermanos do deserve much more love. i'm pretty much of the opinion that UR and offshoots are paradoxically the most praised and the most underrated out of any group that's ever worked in techno.

-- the table is the table"

i think the problem is that of many of the "classic" musicians: people name check the hell out of them, but they dont listen to or play their music enough. that Los Hermanos album from a couple years back is so ridiculously good, i cant believe it wasnt huge for more deejays. UR and its offshoots are not just great in the abstract, they are great in practice, too. the magazine coverage is nice, but it will really only be worthwhile if people start paying attention to the music.

"on CC as producer/musician: i can't agree with pipecock about him being the best techno musician of all time. he's certainly among the top five, methinks."

hehe, im not going to argue but whom would you think has a better resume than carl? the guy has two decades worth of material behind him, a crazy percentage of it is ridiculously awesome. who else would you consider top 5? i dont know if i have a top 5, but at least to me it seems pretty obvious that no one can touch carl in terms of quality and quantity and breadth of styles.

"on CC as a DJ: motherfucker needs to throw that Serato shit to the curb. last two times i saw him, there was not a single point where i was like, "this guy is killing me." whereas the two times before that, he destroyed me and had me sweating more than i ever have whilst dancing. which times was he using serato? the bad times. which times was he using ableton or actually playing records? the good times.

-- the table is the table"

yeah, it seems like the FS/setaro stuff seems to make him even more hit or miss as a deejay. too bad. he was quite nice on it at DEMF 06 by the river at noon.

missed this bit earlier:

"is this why so many affluent white dudes with a passion for failure/negativity identify with it?

-- Ronan"

white people have taken all sorts of shit from black culture over the years, some with respect, some without. having a passion for the music is one thing, being able to replicate the feeling of it when producing your own music is a whole other story. and in that respect, most of those people fail miserably.

Can you guys please go back to Balkanised dance threads that are just recommendations of great records?

I can't be the only one who preferred it that way.

kids go fucking insane when i play that track.

see this is weird to me! there's no perfect clued in crowd who know every record over here either, or anywhere obviously, but if I was playing to people who didn't know techno I'd avoid "full clip" in favour of something like audion.

btw I wasn't being smart-alecky, just pointing out that Los Hermnos do get recognition around here. Or if you feel they deserve recognition then mention them, almost without fail somebody else will have heard the track or will buy it based on a rave review on the tiny dance thread we have here.

as for Tom, regardless of how you know Chymera, I fail to see any great difference between him, Euro producer using mostly digital equipment to release records on Euro labels and so many of the people you lambast.

But since it's been established you don't actually believe in or even understand the concept of subjectivity I don't really see much point arguing.

x-post shut up Matt, we are enjoying this :)

I can do that Matt, although I have actually enjoyed the discussion above. The passion everyone has in their discussion of the issues at hand is always very encouraging to me.

Anyway, I'm really, really feeling Sven Weisemann's remix of Tiger Stripe's "My Deep Space." As for the discussion of Trus'me above, I really enjoyed the record even though I understand the arguments against it. It can seem a bit ignorable, but in the right mood, it totally grabs me. And while I really do like a fair amount of Soulphiction's stuff, it seems to me the "obvious KDJ/Theo P rips" apply to him even more than someone like Trus'me. Sometimes it's almost like Soulphiction is doing really well executed covers.

"is this why so many affluent white dudes with a passion for failure/negativity identify with it?

-- Ronan"

white people have taken all sorts of shit from black culture over the years, some with respect, some without. having a passion for the music is one thing, being able to replicate the feeling of it when producing your own music is a whole other story. and in that respect, most of those people fail miserably.

-- pipecock

I meant you...for the record.

how about (looking for opinions on ...) the newworldaquarium lp or aaron carl's "wallshaker" on millions of moments (i actually know this and like it a lot) or the son of raw single that is at the top on both juno's minimal/tech-house and deep house best seller lists?

haha, okay ronan. because i'm white and i love a lot of detroit techno and house music and i don't have a "passion for failure/negativity" and i was going to take offense.

but i also disagree with pipecock that politics and music are interrelated. they can be, if you want them to be, or you can take them more abstractly. this is like when i take a friend who listens mostly to pfork approved indie shite, classic rock, and stuff done by friends, and play them derrick may's icon, with no info about the record, and they love it and feel the emotions and identify with THAT part of it. and they don't know a damn thing about dance music, including the racial and geographic and economic elements of detroit techno music. i love UR's music, and i love how upbeat and community-oriented they are, but really, that shit doesn't add to the music for me. sometimes i feel like it detracts from it. the only bit i really like is the series of world 2 world, nation 2 nation, etc records. there is something about that spirit of communication that i'm a sucker for.

i mean, that's a lame barb at pipecock. you should have just called him out on it in the first place because really, i doubt very many people in america are into techno at all, regardless of race or demeanor.

considerations of music, politics and identity are at once all separate yet still inter-related.

^^^^^
bears repeating like 50000000 times

also, i want to clarify what i said about UR. involving themselves in inner-city detroit never detracts from the music for me. but when they get combative and act like "fuck everyone who's not from the inner city or poor"... fuck that shit.

"I meant you...for the record.

-- Ronan"

HAHAHAHAHA. i am "affluent"? that's the best shit i've heard all damn day. seriously, i can't even guess where that comes from. you have to tell me why you think i am affluent. my family was on welfare and other assistance while i was growing up, and currently i am a student who makes under $50 a week in a family of 3 being supported by my wife who doesnt even make enough for us to be close to middle class much less fucking affluent. but surely you know something i don't?

what's America got to do with it elan? it's not a barb either, people like to self identify as someone fighting against all odds for artists that are constantly being ripped off and debased (no matter how true or false this picture is) you encounter this in techno all the time, and probably other genres too.

people become suspicious of any and all success sometimes. I see it in myself but I try to fight it...anyone who's listened to underground dance music can surely see the self destruction of it all, of worshipping people based on their bloody mindedness or bad attitudes.

x-post, sorry I used the word affluent Tom, but regardless, the point is the identification with perceived injustice.

"as for Tom, regardless of how you know Chymera, I fail to see any great difference between him, Euro producer using mostly digital equipment to release records on Euro labels and so many of the people you lambast.

-- Ronan"

he gets the feeling right. that's the only difference. it is not impossible for a european producer to make good house or techno music, in fact i play a decent bit of it. but for whatever reason, the most recent popular waves of it have not produced people who can nail that feeling. what comes out is way more sterile and plain sounding than i can tolerate. it doesnt always work that way, i cant remember if it was you or someone else who brought up deep chord's jacking of the basic channel sound, but that's exactly the same thing in reverse. an american act biting a european one that actually nailed the feeling, but the knock off misses most of the time. for someone who calls their blog "house is a feeling" it seems like you should know what i'm talking about.

"And while I really do like a fair amount of Soulphiction's stuff, it seems to me the "obvious KDJ/Theo P rips" apply to him even more than someone like Trus'me. Sometimes it's almost like Soulphiction is doing really well executed covers.

-- matt2"

sometimes i think they are:

http://www.discogs.com/release/250072

that one has a side that sounds like kenny and one that sounds like theo. i bought it from online samples years ago, but never played it out. i will probably sell it. they even titled one of the tracks the same as a theo parrish EP! crazy.

"this is like when i take a friend who listens mostly to pfork approved indie shite, classic rock, and stuff done by friends, and play them derrick may's icon, with no info about the record, and they love it and feel the emotions and identify with THAT part of it. and they don't know a damn thing about dance music, including the racial and geographic and economic elements of detroit techno music.

-- elan"

that is what is great about good music, it can overcome all of these things. but the thing is, those politics and personalities of the people who made the music are in there. "Icon" wouldn't sound the same if derrick wasn't from a black man from Detroit. that's what i'm trying to get at. you may not be able to HEAR it, but it's in there.

the newworldaquarium lp

The new material that makes up the vinyl release is outstanding (a real headfuck, if samey), and I'm anxious for the CD, even though most (all?) the tracks that fill it out are old. I had been waiting for him to do something of that magnitude for some time. The CD will probably make my year-end top ten.

His 154 album was pretty slept-on. Loved that, too.

x-post what change in sound does him being black and from Detroit bring to the record? genuine question.

"what's America got to do with it elan? it's not a barb either, people like to self identify as someone fighting against all odds for artists that are constantly being ripped off and debased (no matter how true or false this picture is) you encounter this in techno all the time, and probably other genres too.

people become suspicious of any and all success sometimes. I see it in myself but I try to fight it...anyone who's listened to underground dance music can surely see the self destruction of it all, of worshipping people based on their bloody mindedness or bad attitudes."

i too am always suspicious. but i dont think that popularity is a bad thing. i cant remember if i've gotten into the idea on ILM, but the great thing about detroit and chicago dance music was that it WAS pop music in those places. i'm not against good music having popularity, but i dont like seeing things get watered down. you can argue that this isn't happening with techno, but i just can't agree. mnml is kenny g to real techno's john coltrane.

"x-post, sorry I used the word affluent Tom, but regardless, the point is the identification with perceived injustice.

-- Ronan"

i don't think it is perceived. over and over again you see US artists ideas taken and sold to make a european artist money (this is even true amongst artists i like such as Daft Punk who were at least nice enough to put a track listing their influences on their first album) while the US artists make jack shit. Carl Craig is getting his love now, and Jeff Mills, Larry Heard, and Derrick May get theirs pretty consistantly as well. but what about Rob Hood? or KDJ? or any number of other cats who should be consistantly up there in perception of techno and house fans as "innovators" and all those other critic words that get slapped on every white artist who comes through? even now you look at people like Patrice Scott and Keith Worthy who are doing stuff that should be getting them on year end top producers and tracks lists yet they are insanely overlooked in favor of other more flavor of the month tracks and producers. what they are doing is not just some old school flavored stuff, though it has elements of that in there. their shit is just as fresh or more fresh than anything else out right now, but they get 5% of the love. why?

"x-post what change in sound does him being black and from Detroit bring to the record? genuine question.

-- Ronan"

that's like asking what you would be like if your parents were different people. can you pinpoint exactly what would be different about you? no, but you have to admit that you would obviously not be the same person. everything that happens to you gets rolled up into your personality, it is unavoidable. even if you decide "i am going to be nothing like what is expected of me" that is nothing but a reaction against what has happened to you, it is still influencing your life! being a black person in the US is not like being a black person anywhere else. being a detroit resident is not like being a resident anywhere else. you can say the same about being anyone from anywhere, but the point is that your identity and history is all wrapped up in what you become and as an artist what you put out.

yes, but surely his being black and from Detroit are not the only two factors to consider here...a person is made up of infinitely more than race and birthplace.

sure those two things are factors but what about, to use your example, his parents, his life, his school, his entire life experience. you can't isolate two factors because they are convenient.

at which point the reality emerges: that why a piece of music sounds how it does is entirely a matter of debate/opinion/speculation.

you may not be able to HEAR it, but it's in there.

http://www.justhungry.com/images/tomato_sauce.jpg

rob hood has been on lots of high profile mix CDs, especially unlikely ones like henrik schwarz's dj kicks. and this would be a particularly weird year to talk about the lack of props for moodymann, given the success of dudes who publicly give KDJ lots of love - people like trickski and efdemin and what not.

also rob hood is doing a fabric mix.

how does pipecock afford so many records on $50 a week with a kid to feed, clothe and school? you should be mp3s number one proponent right here.

"yes, but surely his being black and from Detroit are not the only two factors to consider here...a person is made up of infinitely more than race and birthplace.

sure those two things are factors but what about, to use your example, his parents, his life, his school, his entire life experience. you can't isolate two factors because they are convenient.

at which point the reality emerges: that why a piece of music sounds how it does is entirely a matter of debate/opinion/speculation.

-- Ronan"

i'm not isolating any of them! i'm saying they all matter, and that none of them can be removed. as for whether being black and from detroit matters more or less than any other factors, all i have to say is that the legacy of black music from detroit is insane.

"and this would be a particularly weird year to talk about the lack of props for moodymann, given the success of dudes who publicly give KDJ lots of love - people like trickski and efdemin and what not."

but its another case of talking about the records more than people are actually listening to them! its good that people are getting the word out but i mean that guy is a genius. his records should be huge, i didnt see either of this past year's very nice 12"s mentioned in many year end lists (aside from my own, of course ;) )

"rob hood has been on lots of high profile mix CDs, especially unlikely ones like henrik schwarz's dj kicks. also rob hood is doing a fabric mix.

-- moonship journey to baja"

which is good! i'm looking forward to hearing it, but the idea is still that he should be considered a groundbreaking ridiculous artist. the kind of things people say about villalobos and others should be said about rob hood and theo parrish, but they rarely are and never on as large of a scale as those euro guys get.

"how does pipecock afford so many records on $50 a week with a kid to feed, clothe and school? you should be mp3s number one proponent right here.

-- resolved"

i am very very selective about what i buy. i am currently lucky enough to get some promos and shit from writing about music, but i'm still not really buying tons of new records. most stuff i get i buy used, and i am lucky enough to be able to shop in places in pgh where i get ridiculous stuff for between $3-5 per record. any time i get paid for deejaying, it goes into buying more records.

moodymann's recent output is very jazzy, broken-beat oriented. it IS mentioned in lots of end-of-year lists, but more from people like benji b or gilles peterson who have a broken beat focus.

it doesn't strike me as something nefarious, any more than the fact that techno DJs didn't really rate the timeline EPs. does that mean they don't like UR anymore? no, it just means that they're rating by a criteria other than "quality". the fact that nobody is willing to put what amount to a live jazz fusion record on their end-of-year techno top 10 just means that they're using danceability as strong criteria.

but its another case of talking about the records more than people are actually listening to them!

ad hoc statement on the level of "carl craig doesn't actually like euro minimal"

also i love detroit as much as anybody here and i just don't think rob hood is as interesting anymore as, say, loco dice or villalobos. sorry.

maybe people aren't giving the "hoodmusic" thing a fair shake because he sleepwalked through "art of war" and "wire to wire".

also, the money i make comes from working in a record shop where i get the records i want at cost. so that helps.

if i can stay all vinyl with my very meager amount of money to spend on music, anyone can! there is no excuse ;)

his records should be huge

good music not being hugely popular ain't minimal techno's fault, nor is it anything new either. it'd be nice if all the music I liked was huge...I suppose. Or maybe it'd just piss me off. All music can't be huge. Are you sure you really want a world where Moodymann is "huge"?

If he was, something else would be small, and somebody else would be furious that that wasn't getting props.

"moodymann's recent output is very jazzy, broken-beat oriented. it IS mentioned in lots of end-of-year lists, but more from people like benji b or gilles peterson who have a broken beat focus."

but it is still house music!

:it doesn't strike me as something nefarious, any more than the fact that techno DJs didn't really rate the timeline EPs. does that mean they don't like UR anymore? no, it just means that they're rating by a criteria other than "quality". the fact that nobody is willing to put what amount to a live jazz fusion record on their end-of-year techno top 10 just means that they're using danceability as strong criteria.

-- moonship journey to baja"

danceability?!?!? "technologystolemyvinyle" blows the dancefloor up big time, every single time ive seen someone play it. the UR jazzy stuff is wonderful dance music as well, "hi tech jazz (live mix)" is a huge dance floor record for me even with non-dance crowds. why is everyone concentrating only on one sound? i would be perfectly cool with other people getting props as long as the guys who deserve it are getting theirs.

"maybe people aren't giving the "hoodmusic" thing a fair shake because he sleepwalked through "art of war" and "wire to wire".

-- moonship journey to baja"

see, there's a very popular conception that i think shows that people are not listening to the records. "wire to wire" is gorgeous, it sounds like nothing else hood ever did and really doesnt sound like much else that anyone has done. it kind of reminds me of what i think derrick may would be making if he was still putting out records. but that shit was overlooked by everyone despite being as fresh as anything else out at the time. the private press record from the same time is ridiculously dope as well. and his hoodmusic series is awesome, but again is getting no love. i don't get it.

well, i don't "get" your love for "wire to wire" and i don't buy that "hi tech jazz (live mix)" is a huge dance floor record. sorry. i find it borderline unlistenable.

theo parrish didn't even put anything out except UGLY EDITS between 2004 and 2007. did you seriously expect ugly edits to show up on year-end lists in magazines? i've seen the ugly edits show up in the year-end zine lists of nu-disco and re-edit DJs, but i'm not shocked that someone like luciano didn't include them.

asking why theo didn't end up on the resident advisor year-end list is a little like asking why panda bear's "person pitch" or sun ra's "disco 3000" didn't, it's a major misunderstanding of the focus and purpose of that list.

"the fact that nobody is willing to put what amount to a live jazz fusion record on their end-of-year techno top 10 just means that they're using danceability as strong criteria."

christian prommer's "strings of life" would have been on my list had i bothered to do one!

thanks andy! i am going to try and hunt it down this weekend.

why is everyone concentrating only on one sound?

they aren't...no more than you are anyway.

"they aren't...no more than you are anyway.

-- Ronan"

the only sound i concentrate on is soul. i play shit that is crazy live sounding, shit that is crazy electronic sounding, shit with electro beats, shit with 4 on the floor, shit with jazz beats.

"well, i don't "get" your love for "wire to wire" and i don't buy that "hi tech jazz (live mix)" is a huge dance floor record. sorry. i find it borderline unlistenable."

hahaha, thats funny. that record does it each and every time, ive had to retire it from the record box since i was playing it too damn much. you should go back and listen to wire to wire again, it has definitely gotten better with time if anything.

"theo parrish didn't even put anything out except UGLY EDITS between 2004 and 2007. did you seriously expect ugly edits to show up on year-end lists in magazines? i've seen the ugly edits show up in the year-end zine lists of nu-disco and re-edit DJs, but i'm not shocked that someone like luciano didn't include them."

why shouldnt they show up? theyre good music, and had many dance floor killers in there (especially the dells on 4 and the gq "lies" edit, i forget which # that was). aside from that, he had these two:

http://www.discogs.com/release/498636

http://www.discogs.com/release/558357

in 05, both of which were dope. that's not counting the crazy shit (the howard thomas im not really feeling, but the napi headz and hanna are DOPE) he put out by other people on sound signature that got almost no love.

"asking why theo didn't end up on the resident advisor year-end list is a little like asking why panda bear's "person pitch" or sun ra's "disco 3000" didn't, it's a major misunderstanding of the focus and purpose of that list.

-- moonship journey to baja"

the focus and purpose of that list is not "house and techno" but "european house and techno". they seem to be striving to be more than that which can only be good. there is no comparable forum for soulful music.

i'm not sure what to think of prommer. some of the stuff (rej, can u feel it) was gorgeous, some of it bored me to tears (claire).

yes yes, pipecock, they are biased toward europe, but you're not biased toward the US, you're just biased toward "soul", yawn

btw a lot of your thesis depends on ignoring the continental success of north americans like dan bell and audion and whatnot. which is understandable i guess cause i hear drexciya dissed them once.

let's be honest, the real reason stuff like the Ugly Edits and Hood's stuff and UR records aren't on most year-end DJ lists is that dance music is much more popular in europe, and european crowds don't dig that stuff as much, so the DJs don't play it as much though they might dig it. that and the techno scene in Europe is as much about handjobs and ego-massaging as the US techno 'scene' is, so when you see Mad Mike's top five of the year (or whatever), it is guaranteed to be mostly chicago and detroit-based, whereas you look at Luciano's top five of the year, it's guaranteed to be as teutonic as Klaus Kinski.

well put

also, i'd like to second Ronan's rebuttal to you, vahid: Hi-Tech Jazz makes floors slam every time. and if you don't like that track, i might never be able to take anything you say seriously ever again.

that and if we're talking about BORING ASS TECHNO, i'd put Audion at the top of my list. "Noiser" AND "Mouth to Mouth" are just irritating. (the fact that CC played an epic edit of the former the last time i saw him was admittedly one of the deciding factors that i was not enjoying his set).

okay, i will still take you seriously, v, i just think that's a silly opinion. that track is bouncy and lively

further on audion: Mouth to Mouth actually has a good deal of merit, i wrote too quickly.

noiser is a hi-frequency mess that just makes me want to fucking die, not dance.

wait I didn't say that did I? what rebuttal?! who fucking knows at this stage...I'm overdosed on chocolate from my mother's 60th birthday party

then again, Mouth to Mouth is much closer to detroit in sound than noiser, which is much more euro in sound, so it makes sense that i'd hate it.

sorry ronan, i meant pipecock over up there ^^

b-b-but luciano's not german! (just being stupidly provocative, i go back to lurking now. btw, burnt friedman has soul!)

""they aren't...no more than you are anyway.

-- Ronan"

the only sound i concentrate on is soul. i play shit that is crazy live sounding, shit that is crazy electronic sounding, shit with electro beats, shit with 4 on the floor, shit with jazz beats.

hold on, didn't you just argue ad infinitum that disco/house/techno are in fact all the same genre, essentially?

but now you criticise others for only playing one style? yet because they are all the same you claim to play all three. how then are you not playing only one style?

people who like current euro house/techno are not some amorphous mass either, no more than detroit techno fans. it's a wide range of music and there are constant disagreements.

hi-tech jazz IS great. there's a live band version floating around - in the style of "timeline", "return of the dragons", etc - that i don't care for. i mean, literally played w/ live drums and upright bass.

there's an amazing handclap plus rocks version around

what i mean to say is that laurent garnier has played out a mix-desk recording of this version, which i consider a sort of pointless move. why not just stick with the killer original?

it reminds me of seeing wayne shorter or pharoah sanders at the SF jazz festivals in 95 and 96 (separate shows). they each dragged in like three keyboardists and three drummers (syn-drumming ahoy). and i was like "WHY". you guys were fine just playing acoustic. and this is like the reverse of that. you were fine just spinning records, why the circus.

i have that live version, v, i don't like it that much either. it is sort of intrsting, tho.

wait, which timeline? the one on millenium to millenium? that's LIVE?

i have a cassette tape of theo parrish drumming on a bucket, fucking blows the dancefloor up every time.

sorry for the confusion, i keep saying "timeline" meaning "timeline - return of the dragons EP"

TBH, i am guilty of talking a lot about stuff i haven't kept up w/ very seriously. the only UR stuff i've really checked more than a casual listen at the shop has been the DJ S2 "slide" tracks and the "ma ya ya / soulpower" thing.

that should say "only UR stuff since jaguar". i guess "aguila" too.

i think this is like mad mike's "innerzone orchestra" / "detroit experiment" phase, let's just ignore him for a few years and he'll come back w/ a vengeance like C2.

v, you NEED to at give a listen to the Nomadico ep. "Planeta" might be the best UR track to come out in the past two or three years, imho.

QUESTION: why is green velvet so much more popular in europe than theo parrish.

HINT: it's not because he's a sellout.

and it is great to mix with.

cuz Green Velvet's a dirty-ass dood. europeans are all filthy.

is it because he sticks suction cups on his bald head?

or maybe because he's a Christian

also, pipecock, out of curiosity-- where do you buy your records in pgh? i've only been to one record shop there (Jerry's) and while i found loads of great old disco and soul, the only more recent thing i found was this weird Canto Azul record with Faze Action remixes on it.

"b-b-but luciano's not german!"

he looks german from our vantage across the pond where people actually have soul. ha.

i know he ain't german, but really, dude probably spends more time there than in Lausanne.

that said, i do love luciano.

Have you heard "Hi Tech Dreams" off this one vahid: http://www.discogs.com/release/910833

i think this is like mad mike's "innerzone orchestra" / "detroit experiment" phase, let's just ignore him for a few years and he'll come back w/ a vengeance like C2.

-- moonship journey to baja, Friday, January 18, 2008 2:25 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

or stay on your game and start the next drum and bass...

yeah matt, i love that record. but i am biased towards Nomadico's sound because it is much more in line with the earlier, more insanely-paced UR. like the Riot EP.

I have a gigantic reel to reel spool of Derrick May drumming his fingers on a copy of the Bible. When you play it people speak in tongues.

^^ this never gets old, does it? bros.

no i hadn't heard "hi-tech dreams", not until just now! on first listen, sounds KILLER, but again, sort of thing that would just flow better in an "eclectic" set than in a 4-hr luciano house set.

..who does spend more time in Geneva than in Germany these days. Lausanne is where the justly abovelambasted LFP originate.

from.

in!

lazy fat people = the codec & flexor of 2008

2008 = the year all dance threads converge and their readers realize that Blunt has been right all along.

hmm, allow me to utter a few key concepts as people reel in disbelief and before normality sets back in.

no wait the c2-list celeb banter is funnier. so he banked on all he contacts he had a a club booker to get ahead, through contacts he inherited from a previous manager. however what I enjoy most is his thizzin' chicken-like stance behind the turntables!

uh that's Mirko btw- the other's a haughty if more level-headed 'studio boffin' of sorts with the traditional eighties funky outfit cred which somehow passes for authentic musicianship in the area, yawn.

so he banked on all he contacts he had a a club booker to get ahead, through contacts he inherited

?

you know, the previous booker establishes a popular club, you're the resident dj for a little while then get his job when he quits, then C2 starts playing real often & presto, you're on a detroit label !

anyway the harder they fall so PEACE brah

In the spirit of this thread, and house music, so far this year I've discovered Jenifa Mayanja (check Looking Ahead)

(check all the others)

yes! and from that, can we talk about the Underground Quality label?

can you take it to Limpid Coffeshop Nu-Jazz Bobbins 2008?

UQ Records sound(s) good, I had a Jus Ed = Omar-S soundalike preconception because he released w/him but he's from elsewhere. his tracks are more fleshed out & consistently housey.

the other guy who's been interesting lately I think is Filsonik.

xpost. yeah, can you take anything anywhere?

I'm sorry. that sounded cranky. what with all these loving souls upthread.

"also, pipecock, out of curiosity-- where do you buy your records in pgh? i've only been to one record shop there (Jerry's) and while i found loads of great old disco and soul, the only more recent thing i found was this weird Canto Azul record with Faze Action remixes on it.

-- the table is the table"

yeah jerrys is where i get lots of my old stuff. i also crush it at The Attic in millvale for used 12"s, not so much for LPs. for new stuff, i get it either from the shop i work at 720 Records http://720records.com/ or through Milk records http://www.milkrecords.net/ which no longer has a physical shop (it's mostly online now) but i know the owner so i get records from her house! plus of course good old mail order for new shit ;)

jus-ed and omar-s definitely have some similarities. i can't put my finger on them yet. but i really love jus-ed's r u feeling me ep. i also have the 1st unity kolabo ep and that is awesome. it even has an omar kolabo but (from memory) that is the weakest track.

the one appearing as DJ Snotburger. this is all v refined

a word of warning, jus-ed has serious quality control issues. he seems to release everything he does.

<i>jus-ed's r u feeling me ep. i also have the 1st unity kolabo ep</i>

these are my favourites on the label (especially the unity kolabo). the 12 with 'fly away' and the <i>small oak</i> ep also solid.

sorry, getting ready is the other ep i like... not r u.

a word of warning, jus-ed has serious quality control issues. he seems to release everything he does.

That'll be another shared trait with Omar-S, who is apparently proud of it.

this is true

i think that even on omar's weaker records, there is one track that is good. and for five dollars, it's hard for me to argue.

yeah he differs from omar because at least omar's lack of quality control throws up interesting variations in style. weaker jus-ed tracks tend to just be poorer versions of something he's previously released.

http://www.crosstalkchicago.com/newfeatures/featured/pages/M19_Mick_Collins.htm

New Moodymann collabo w/ Mick Collins from The dirtbombs is WEIRD. But I like it. Might have to get one.

http://www.divshare.com/download/3549593-973

^^if you dont already know, guess what year this is from

1982?

'78
http://www.discomuseum.com/Kikrokos.jpg

ah, that's the track that came out on those "ron's edits" 12"s that according to discogs, aren't actually ron hardy. thanks, i was just trying to ID this the other day! anyone know who DID do those ron's/not-ron's edits?

xpost Cool!

This reminds me a couple years back I realized the intro to the Jam and Lewis produced Alexander O'Neal track "What Is This Thing Called Love?" could've come straight from Kompakt. The track's only from 1992 so the time gap isn't remarkable or anything, but I was listening to Superpitcher's "Today" mix cd a whole bunch in the fall of 2005 and one day I put on this Alexander O'Neal track and thought, "wow, that intro really, really sounds like the Superpitcher mix." Fascinating I know, this happens all over the place with all sorts of music, but for some reason it has stuck with me. Maybe I'll post of snippet of it tonight.

Oh, and not to derail things entirely, but I'm gonna be in Chicago Feb 1-3. Anything going on club-wise that I need to know about deej or others?

Re: Chicago

February 1st Plaid is playing at the Abbey Pub. That's pretty much the only thing worth going to during that span unless you're a Cut Chemist or Kaskade fan. If you're still going to be here Sunday night, check out The End at Smart Bar. Very low key, decent local DJs and it's free.

im not real into dubstep, but if you are the (maybe) 1st chicago dubstep-oriented dj night is @ lava in wicker park on friday the 1st

saturday at lava is supposed to be a good night for house music, i haven't been yet though.

dark wave disco djs are at subterranean in w.p. friday also ...

The End would def. be worth checking out on sun., james lauer is a good dj

let me get back to you about that weekend tho ... i'm sure there is more going on

derrick carter&gene farris are @ zentra on the 8th but you'll be gone then

http://www.sound-bar.com/ is a decent place to go for, like, more upscale/mainstream techno/house stuff

elliot eastwick and brad owen at smartbar, free before 11

thats on friday

lol why dont i email this to you and not fill up bobbins thread w/ chicago events calender

anyone know who DID do those ron's/not-ron's edits?

I don't ... but there's also a prins thomas version of this, discomiks ep on rong -- http://www.discogs.com/release/387095

great track

Cool deej, yeah please feel free to email me and thanks to you and littlewhiteearbuds for the info already posted.

Err, now that it's again safe for the posters of more simplistic content here, like myself, I'll say I definitely wasn't lying when I said upthread that Move D never fails. He very very much deserves belated recognition for being one of my favourite producers of 2007 (just hearing tracks from his 12" on workshop now) Deep, melodic, an unrelentless groove, the man is wonderful.

And while it' relevance in this thread is more loose, Goddamn! Hercules and Love Affair's Blind is just, probably the best thing for me at the moment.

elliot eastwick and brad owen at smartbar, free before 11

now there's a name i haven't heard for a longtime (EE). must re-visit some of my old Paper records at some point. speaking of that epoch in brit house, i picked up House of 909's 'the children we were' for cheap the other day and it holds up very nicely. lots of lovely analogue basslines.

Mehlt, regarding Move D, what's your opinion of Kunststoff (re-released last year)? didn't do that much for me on initial listens but will give it another go.

Kunstsoff is great. it's a little dated, sure, but once you get past that it's almost uniformly excellent listening techno. love the pad heavy, 'rainforest' atmosphere. (i'm less keen on the few more uptempo tracks).

Still loving the shit out of Terrence Dixon's Train of Thought. Rediscovering Herbert's early stuff for the second time (100 Lbs. rips!). Surprised no one mentioned this yet, but Bruno Pronsato's Why Can't We Be Like Us is year-defining.

the new wolf+lamb release (digital only?), from gadi mizrahi w/ a ryan crosson remix, is BLISSFUL. wow.
damian schwartz's new one as sam the mummy (on múpa) is also great, a very different direction for him...

eastwick & holloway = SO DOPE

"kunstoff" = not so dated, really.

http://www.discogs.com/release/1146397

this is a brilliant house record

Wow, that's curious, I just came upon that record last night. Definitely quality, especially the remixes. Write up forthcoming.

any opinions on the "mumbling yeah" remixes? loco dice and marco carola - both sound pretty underwhelming so far. on the other hand, the new andomat 3000 record on cecile is superb hypnotic house

I've only heard the Marco Carola one and (for me) it strips all the appeal bits out of the original and leaves a dull, minimal husk in its place. Hopefully Buttrich-- I mean Loco Dice came up with something better.

I just listened at an online store last week and my initial impression was that the Loco Dice one was pretty good.

Haven't heard the Move D album, but I'd like to, I only caught onto him with Anne Will, really.

This Sam The Mummy sounds interesting, and I like my Damian Schwartz too, in what different directions is it going, may I ask?

i see on random circuits that luciano's on the radio 1 essential mix tonight (3-5gmt). exciting.

wonder if he'll play the same set again

heh i was going to say, hopefully a shiny new set for 2008.

the sam the mummy is quite housey, certainly for schwartz -- though fortunately not in the reductive way that a lot of the german nu-deep stuff is. quite heavy.

what are the track titles? I bought a release on Mupa by Damien Schwartz last week ("1568 Drexel AV", and "2020") but it's not listed as Sam the Mummy. It is really good and housier indeed than his normal stuff. Definitely sounds like what I hope the rest of the year will.

the Bruno Pronsato record is really good, but I'm hesitant to say its best-of-08 if for no other reason than right now it sounds like a clone of Villalobos' Thé Au Harem D'Archimède...I think I just need to listen to it more

i'm hesitant to call it best of 08 because we are only 25 days into 08

oh yeah, that too...

The Bruno Pronsato album sounds like a pastiche of the Villalobos you mentioned and the Wighnomy Brothers, which in theory isn't a bad thing, but at this stage in the development of the "minimal" sound, it strikes me as a bit too predictable and derivative to actually warrant any serious acclaim.

isthiswhatitis? that I hear in every other ricardo/luciano mix lately.

I'm considering buying the Pronsato on faith (actually, I've heard At Home I'm a tourist, and it's good, not amazing), is this a good idea?

I agree completely with the villalobos - similarities, as I mentioned in the previous thread, he's like the au harem ricardo but more careful to not take himself too seriously.

i really loved the second track on the Pronsato album, but the rest of it hasn't grabbed me yet. might need to give it some more time, but it just didn't seem that distinctive.

Listening to new Andomat 3000 tracks now (although just the so far really good "Vertical Smile"), I'll say that the way things are going Cecille should be a household label by the end of the year.

give bruno's album some time (and if possible, volume over good speakers). i think it's really a very special album. definitely <I>thé au harem</i>-istic, but only at the most basic level. in fact at this point i'd far prefer to put on bruno's album than that one of ricardo's. (and i hear very little wighnomys in it... what are you referring to specifically?)

luciano essential mix tracklist looks a bit dull; like something given away free with the sunday papers. and only 15 tracks in two hours? odd.

and only 15 tracks in two hours? odd.

umm, wtf?

What's your point caller? Where you at the match?

yep, looks rubbish for nerds. understandable doing a label showcase though

Love Tong's mangling of any foreign word he might have to pronounce.

And the Argy remix being perhaps Luciano's finest hour is somewhat risible.

sorry jim, i just thought it seemed like luciano hadn't played many tracks in the two hours. just saying, like.

Some track lengths for you for some of the tracks he plays:

M83 - teen angst (luciano mix) 11.48
Luciano & Thomas Melchior ‘Father’ (Cadenza) 13:59
Loco Dice - [Harissa #D1] A Chico A Rhytmico 11.24
Salif Keita - [Remixes from Moffou #01] Yamore (Remixed by Luciano) 12.26

It is very common for minimal djs to play a few songs in an hour, Luciano tends to adhere to this trend.

It's kind of part of the whole point of the minimal thing.

ok jim, thanks for the info, i wouldn't have known anything about it if it wasn't for your help.

If you're not being facetious, which I doubt, nae bother.

If you are http://www.clipartof.com/images/emoticons/xsmall2/1247_farting.gif

is the smiley face doing a poo? i'm not sure i get it.

It's a farting emoticon.

It's kind of part of the point of the whole emoticon thing.

there's 18 tracks on silo club and it's a good bit less than 2 hours long. to be honest it was just an aside, something i noticed. not really worth arguing about. anyway...

there's no argument really, jim is just being too big for his not very knowledgable boots (as per usual).

It just seemed a bit of an incongruous remark, like saying "why are there so many tracks in this hour long dj funk set?" or whatever. But fuck you too "resolved", whoever the fuck you are.

looks like minimal/techno/house bobbins isn't getting along so nicely this last year.

anyone heard clark's new album? (minimal it ain't) i could only listen to the first couple tracks before i needed a break

http://www.discogs.com/image/R-1206025-1201176824.jpeg

i'm gonna go give Pronsato's album another listen.

too lazy to fix that

Discog images don't allow themselves to be hotlinked unfortunately.

okay so not bobbins, but exciting news:
not only did i get an astounding package from 'elan' today with a bunch of great records in it, but my friend who sold me his decks a while back came over to my house with his entire record collection in two bigass crates. i mean, fuck. i'm kind of losing my shit.

re. the luciano ess mix: yeah it was a shame he didn't use the opportunity to showcase his dj'ing skills rather than his back catalogue. i mean he's already done that with his contemporary / classics comp on cadenza last year. oh well... download available here if you're still interested:

http://www.filter27.com/archives/2008/01/download-luciano-essential-mix.php

Sarah Goldfarb - Paneka EP + From NY to Las Vegas EP

alias for Jean-Vincent Luccini, makes consistently interesting, spacey minimal tracks. "Homodiskotekus" was a fave in 2006/7, and new ones continue in same vein, tho w/occasional, subtle electro references too

CONGRATS TO PIPECOCK

http://www.cornwarning.com/tomcox/Thomas_Cox_-_412_Deep_Mixxx_01-03-08.mp3

THIS IS DOPE

source

i dig that sarah goldfarb a lot.

the stinkworx (i'm assuming...the cutup vocals one) track on that pipecock mix fucking kills!

fuck the new diynamic release with h.o.s.h. and stimming is beautiful, love that fragile organ melody

"CONGRATS TO PIPECOCK

THIS IS DOPE

-- moonship journey to baja"

haha, thanks. all my mixes are dope, though ;)

"the stinkworx (i'm assuming...the cutup vocals one) track on that pipecock mix fucking kills!

-- sous les paves"

that's the one. i love that shit. his new 12" on Vext (convextion's sublabel of Down Low) is really nice electro stuff, and the new Nebraska on Down Low would have made it on that mix if i had received it in time!

My mind was blown when I realized one day that Stinkworx and I actually went to the same tiny, rural high school here in North Carolina. I believe he was even on the track team with me for a couple seasons. I remember him being a fairly introverted fellow. I love his work and the Down Low sound in general. I also love that KDJ re-work of the Mario Winans song.

"My mind was blown when I realized one day that Stinkworx and I actually went to the same tiny, rural high school here in North Carolina. I believe he was even on the track team with me for a couple seasons. I remember him being a fairly introverted fellow. I love his work and the Down Low sound in general.

-- matt2"

yeah the DL guys kill it in general. between JT and Minto, those guys know a fucking ton about good music but (obviously) especially techno. JT will actually be having a guest post on my blog in the near future about records and vinyl culture. i'll have to see if he did indeed run track, that's funny. of course i was on the swim team and the soccer squad in high school myself.....

the new workshop sounds great.

Sadly, neither side of the new Partial Arts is doing anything for me.

-- matt2, Monday, January 14, 2008 9:27 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark Link

was this about "Telescope"? I like it! especially the Radioslave side

yeah, both sides really good i reckon.

Prosumer & Murat Tepeli's Serenity is a great deep house release

pipecock: I'm really looking forward to that interview. I know for sure his sister ran track.

dmr/haitch: Yeah, that's the one. I'll have to give it another chance, but it really didn't move me at all.

I thought it was rubbish too

I think the A side is good, not great. The Radio Slave remix bores me to tears no matter how many chances I give it. Jorg Burger's Polyform 2 took a few listens to sink in but I love it now.

Yeah, it is a Radio Slave remix by the numbers. I'm definitely to the point with him where I'm growing much more interested in his original productions (as "Dedication" and "Bell Clap Dance" were by far my favorite things he's done) and getting to the point where I could almost skip his always-at-least-11-minutes, droning, non-dynamic remixes without giving them much of a listen. I keep giving them a chance because I keep waiting for his formula to change, but it really hasn't.

the stuff on his myspace is pretty spectacular also. am i the only person who prefers "dedication" to "bell clap dance" (and plays the sebo k remix alot more than the original)? i know they function quite differently as tracks but as +10 minute epics go "dedication" holds my attention for much longer.

i have a couple of Sebo K tracks i really like (King Roc remix), but his Radio Slave remix is one of those things that i've totally forgotten once the song ends. i don't have "Dedication," that's the Herbie Hancock one right?

Yes it is one time. I rate them equally.

dedication is an original production?

It's essentially an edit of a herbie hancock song.

My My just posted one of the two tracks going on Ostgut 13 called "Southbound" on their Myspace. It's a pretty big departure from their previous releases, especially from "Fast Freeze." On first listen it sounds very drum focused, a bit more wide open than their more detail/microhouse oriented stuff. Its structure vaguely reminds me of Buttrich's "Hunter." This one might take a while to sink in.

They also posted a remix of Freedarich & Stiggsen's "Red Lights" which is quite good and a bit closer to their older stuff.

Yeah, definitely better heard loud. Whether on purpose or not, its spare style and hard hitting rhythmic focus has more in common with the Ostgut catalog than the rest of their stuff. Without any proof to back me up, I wager Ben Klock ends up caning "Southbound."

Yeah, "Dedication" uses pretty much the whole of Nobu off Herbie's live, Japan-only Dedication LP. And it does so quite masterfully I think.

Mugwump's 'Boutade' out soon on Ewan Pearson's Misericord is an utterly gorgeous slo-mo psychedelic bomb. belongs here and on the Balearic thread i guess. it's here: http://www.myspace.com/geoffroymugwump

Sherburne!

So, is Boutade actually out digitally anywhere? It sounds great, but I hate streaming off myspace.

And does anyone else hear the Trans Europe Express 80's synth drum-line in Boutade?

back to radio slave for a moment, i really enjoyed the quiet village remix of francois k from december, though it seems like dude got his personas a little mixed up on that one

boutade is on ewan pearson's 'and so to bed mix' for allez allez. if you don't have it then you need it.

"Southbound" sounds like a far less epic "Serpentine" to me, but I guess that's how I measure the band with every new release.

"Boutade" reminds me a bit of the other Misericord release by Al Usher. I wonder if Pearson had a hand in this one, too.

Pearson can have a hand in as many pots as he wants...

Did he produce M83's new Couleurs track? Because every time I hear it, I think that it's the Pearson remix of a pop song (minus the pop song obvs)...

Not insinuating it's a bad thing at all.

I thought that M83 thing was woeful.

Care to explain or does woeful explain itself?

rio what do you mean about personas for the qv remix of francois k? i mean, it is not a typical-sounding qv remix for sure-- francois k's sounds more like qv, if anything-- but i think that it isn't in the same vein as a radio slave remix would have been.

the only minimal track i'm really kickin with right now is that sarah goldfarb talked about upthread. really mesmerizing shit.

Uhm.. Jesus FUCK!!

http://images.juno.co.uk/full/CS297840-01A-BIG.jpg

CD1
1. François K - Crystal Wind (Soundscape)
2. Dubfire - RibCage
3. Shackleton - Blood On My Hands (Ricardo Villalobos Apocalypso Now Remix)
4. Jussi-Pekka - Dead Serious
5. DIM - Sysiphos
6. Audion - Noiser
7. Martin Buttrich - Hunter
8. Gabry Fasano - Time Blender
9. Cobblestone Jazz - Put The Lime In The Coconut
10. Michel de Hey Vs Secret Cinema - Compound (MIRKO Remix)
11. Rino Cerrone - Frame
12. Rejected - Let's Go Juno
13. Deadmau5 - Not Exactly
14. Digitalism - Jupiter Room (Martian Assault Mix)
15. Phantom Power - Acid Über Alles
16. Beroshima - Horizon (Pig & Dan Remix)
17. Gregor Tresher - A Thousand Nights
18. Olivier Giacomotto - Gail In The O (John Acquaviva & Damon Jee Remix)
19. Scuba Feat. Lisa Shaw - Love For You (Nova Dream Sequence)
20. Tom Middleton - Shinkansen

CD2
1. Detroit Grand Pubahs - Skydive From Venus
2. David Hausdorf - Untitled
3. nsi. - dual
4. Samuel L Sessions - Smokestack
5. Armand Van Helden - I Want Your Soul (Dusty Kid Suga Dub)
6. Airfrog - Bon Voyage
7. Fumiya Tanaka - For Set 3
8. Joris Voorn - Many Reasons
9. Axiom & Eric Powell - Resurgum (Eric Powell's Tribal Bitch Mix)
10. Ben Sims - Feelin Acid 2
11. Robert Hood - Still Hear (Los Hermanos Remix)
12. Kenny Larkin - Track (Alternativemix)
13. Ignacio - Chios
14. Taho - Energy Fields
15. Chymera - Wish
16. Len Faki - Rainbow Delta (Jerome Sydenham Remix)
17. Dub Taylor - Dub Arp 2
18. Drexciya - Powers of The Deep
19. Scape One - Sequence Data 1
20. Model 500 - Nightdrive (Thru Babylon)
21. François K - Space Sweeps

CD3
1. Toby Tobias Dave's Sex Bits Quiet Village Remix
2. The Orb - Little Fluffy Clouds (Cumulo Nimbus Mix)
3. François K - Road Of Life
4. Pete Shelley - Witness The Change
5. Deee-Lite - What Is Love (Holographic Goatee Mix)
6. Orange Water - Lo Tek
7. Partial Arts - Cruising
8. Henrik Schwarz - Digital World
9. Virgo - In A Vision
10. Art Of Tones - Praise
11. Akabu - Phuture Bound (Âme Remix)
12. Dennis Ferrer Feat. Mia Tuttavilla - Touched The Sky (Joe’s Dub Beats)
13. The Mountain - People Mountain003
14. Jephté Guillaume Pres Erol Josué - Papa Loko (You Can’t Steal Papa Loko's Thunder Mix)
15. Reel Houze - The Chance
16. Dogma & The Afro-Cuban Rhythms - Ma Suave
17. Konono No 1 - Ungudi Wele Wel

i mean C'MON

first half of disc 3 looks good. the rest looks like a million other mixes you can get on any website dedicated to minimal/techno/dj mixes. i've not even had the motivation to steal that compilation despite coming across links to it on about 5 diff. blogs.

That first disc seems rather ignorable. Two and three look good, though.

francois k is rather boring these days

haha i had a strong feeling the collective bobbins *shrug* was imminent and you guys didnt let me down!

i've only heard the around 80% of the first two discs and i'm really enjoying it so far. for me the tracklist is a great mix of recognizable things with some totally obscure (to me anyway) things and the mixing is really really smooth. plus i love the total pompacity of naming a MoS mix series 'Masterpiece'

has anybody been to his weekly Deep Space NYC night at Cielo? The next time I go to New York I'll definitely make a point of going

as far as Masterpiece, yeah theres a lot of obvious tracks included, and perhaps I'm a bit of an apologist considered how similar my tastes run to Francois', but I'm looking forward to hearing it

actually i surprised myself the other day by quite enjoying his Deep Space NYC mix. i'd certainly give disc 2 of this comp a go but the whole concept is pretty stinky.

CREATED BY

How random is the Orange Water track?

i am willing to give masterpiece a go because it is francois k and because this mix is one of my all-time favorites.

i also think the concept behind the mix series ('high-end' mix cd) is both dubious and cool. the commercial mix cd market needs to justify itself somehow.

really like the new chris carrier release on adult only. this label just gets better and better

how did francois k go from that essential mix to crud like this

he has something on itunes called "collected works 96-06". underwhelming.

Care to explain or does woeful explain itself?

-- BleepBot, Friday, 1 February 2008 20:09 (Yesterday) Link

Sorry BleepBot! I just thought it had nothing to it but melody I guess, and I didn't particularly like the melodies either. It was like Man With The Red Face but sounded like late 90s trance a bit too to me.

Kind of sickly sweet or something. I hate to just say the word "trance" as if it's a byword for "bad" cos it isn't, but there has been a bellyful of trance rehab over the last few years and I wasn't really feeling that one.

i think trance got co-opted the same way that minimal did.

what was the first minimal (as in the minimal tech-house of the past five or so years) record? or was it a micro-house record?

"crud like this"

yup, i remember seeing that in the shop and thinking to myself "what happened?" hopefully that mix was just a warm-up for masterpiece. at least the tracklist for M looks more all of the place, but in that good FK kind of way.

"good fk kind of way" means: i don't think he should leave behind the body and soul ethos which is easy enough for a fan to say. it's weird because the music is curving right around to meet mr k in nyc anyway.

itunes: françois k productions & remixes

compare the stuff he did for depeche mode to ... well, everything after. sorta sad!

that's also a typically incomplete itunes-based list! </pedant>

what about stuff like "la la land" (fk dub)?? that is a huge remix and sounds so good within dj mixes across genre.

i don't think i've heard his remix for m500's "be brave" and i actually have the cd single for that. maybe it was a two-parter.

eventually i came around to his rhythm and sound remix which no one seems to like.

now i am going to have to go and dig out those "personal jesus" remixes!

oh yeah, la la land was cool

give us a POX

and don't forget to put this one in it

ok his "be brave" radio edit is smooth jazz, but it's also like inner city meets britney's "piece of me" if "piece of me" was produced by 4 hero.

i don't think i could do a comprehensive POX. he doesn't have his own ILM thread?

xpost, blunt you should do a FK POX!

haha the two francois k threads on here are the usual suspects saying the usual things including a moonship diss of masterpiece a month ago.

if you really like dub you might be into more of his recent stuff. that said I like every original FK release and there's onnly like ten or so.

"nobody has been making techno longer than juan atkins. now fifteen years since he helped created the genre and permanently changed our musical landscape with his seminal releases in the 1980s, he's back. 'be brave' shows that juan's production muscles flex further than straight forward techno, revealing a much warmer more song-based feel. fusing the diverse elements of a flowing guitar line and shimmering vocals to his trademark electro percussion, 'be brave' is juan's testimony to the spirit of positivity in the face of oppression. featuring the soaring voice of antoinette cohill and the introspective growl of the man himself this is a slice of pure futurist soul straight from the streets of detroit" --will mills, 1998

that's from the "be brave" liner notes

eventually i came around to his rhythm and sound remix which no one seems to like.

me and moonship expressed our love on the see mi yah thread

rad

blunt are you here yet?

month or so

rob hood fabric 39

1 Monobox - Silicone Fingers - Logistic
2 Element 9
3 Robert Hood - Who Taught You Math - Peacefrog
4 Pacou - X-Factor - Cache
5 Robert Hood - Strobe Light - Music Man/N.E.W.S.
6 Marco Lenzi - Taboo - Molecular
7 Joris Voorn - Fever (Rephrased) - Keynote
8 Fab G - Bust The Vibes (Real Disco Mix) - Grand Prix
9 Dan March - Sandune -Meta
10 Element 3
11 Diego - Mind Detergent (Robert Hood Remix) - Kanzleramt
12 Jeff Mills - Skin Deep - Axis
13 Robert Hood - School - Music Man/N.E.W.S.
14 Element 23
15 John Thomas - Mr. Funk - Logistic
16 DJ Skull - Informant- Hypnotic Tones
17 Scorp - One Side - Music Man/N.E.W.S.
18 Pacou- All It Takes - Cache
19 Phase - Mass -N.E.W.S.
20 UK Gold - Agent Wood (Adam Beyer Remix) - New Records
21 Solid Decay - Legalize! - Lessismore
22 Element 7
23 Robert Hood - Side Effect - Music Man/N.E.W.S.
24 Mion - Drop The Filter - Music Man/N.E.W.S.
25 Scorp - New Energy - Music Man/N.E.W.S.
26 UK Gold - Agent Wood (Original Mix) - New Records
27 Robert Hood - Still Here (Los Hermanos Remix) - Music Man/N.E.W.S
28 John Thomas - Pulp Funktion 2 - Logistic
29 Robert Hood - The Greatest Dancer - M-Plant
30 Low-Life - Exclamation - Mosaic
31 Robert Hood - And Then We Planned Our Escape - Music Man/N.E.W.S.
32 Element 12

how much would you lose your shit hearing this guy play at fabric??

"How random is the Orange Water track?

-- Andy K"

random how? i rather like that record, one of the weirder broken beat jams in my collection.

as for FK, i really want to check a deep space set in NYC but his jungle and harder techno are not really to my taste. i love his old disco mixes, him doing a dub mix on prelude in the early 80's is like gold to me! plus of course he did the 12" mix of "Situation" by Yaz, awesomeness.

Saw Hood in a converted partially-underground baseball dugout with a five-foot "ceiling" in Inkster and lost my shit completely. (Granted it was easier for us since we had to squat.)

Oh, no, I love the Orange Water track -- just seemed kinda random after the first glance at the tracklist, is all.

a baseball dugout? wow! was that a one-time only venue or what?

IIRC rob hood was one of the best interviewees in the detroit techno docu.

(REALLY wish that wasn't made up [with the exception of the losing of shit in public part].)

LOL i was just coming back here to ask if the dugout was reminiscent of the wig factory pun!

going back to that fracois k essential mix, i remember hearing the wally badarou track for the first time and thinking 'jeez, massive attack used the whole bloody track!!' (for 'daydreaming' off blue lines). it's so disappointing when sampling turns into blatant plagarisation. anwyay, this is probably a subject for another thread.

Baseball dugout, amazing. I saw Robert Hood 2 months ago, unfortunately it was at a really shitty club.

Incidentally, I heard heater out for the first time ever last night, and you know what, it really is that bad. Same thing happened, actually with Bell Clap Dance; I'm about ready to just give up on Radioslave altogether, whatever everyone gets from him I'm just not seeing (OK, I actually a lot of stuff of his here and there, but Bell Clap Dance sounds outright bad to me). On the other hand, I did hear Son Of Raw's A Black Man in Outer Space, which is absolutely huge.

i llloved Bell Clap Dance when i first heard it (and still do i think). i just found it refreshing after all that rigid up it's own ass minimal that i'd been hearing last year. and there's definitely an element of cheese - perhaps thats why i like(d) it.

having said that - i've never heard it 'out'.

A well written piece about the imminent closure of Club Yellow in Tokyo.

Here

Bad times for the electronic scene in the city (if you included the closure of Cisco).

don't know where else to post this, so it's going in here:

http://infinitestatemachine.com/2008/02/05/guest-mix-noleian-reusse-black-tekno-vol-1/

nice little mixup by the man from Mathematics Recordings, he's part of Africans With Mainframes with Jamal Moss. check it out.

thanks for this. any idea what the second track is? i've heard it on various mixes in the past and it's beautifulness.

big fan of those africans with mainframes releases. they might as well have been buried in some chicago closet for 20 years but they hit the spot!

this Hercules & Love Affair record is a breath of fresh air after listening to Luciano and Bruno Pronsato all day

well jamal moss of awm is like some sort of god, really. almost everything he touches is golden, imho-- especially the awm stuff, insane black man stuff, and "the strenuous life".

john (not fell ryan, but the african dude) from excepter once played me this fucking amazing jamal moss record that he did under his own name... and that i cannot find anywhere on discogs? anyway, jamal moss is the man.

oh and pipecock, i added you to my 'blogroll.'

sam500: If you're talking about the track that starts around 4:30 or 4:45 in, it's Prof Delacroix's "Build Her" off this: http://www.discogs.com/release/986871

You can listen to it on Ronan's blog here: http://ronanfitzgerald.net/houseisafeeling/2007/12/14/hiaf-end-of-year-chart-23-21/

cheers matt2 for that. i assumed it was an obsure detroit thing from the mid-90's. the name and label mean nothing to me!

Anyone diggin the new Cosmo Vitelli EP? I can dig that Converted track, reminds me how good some of those Bot'ox tracks are.

that "Build Her" tune is so fucking good...I kinda forgot about it after playing it a lot when I bought it, then one night I was doing a warmup in a pretty empty club and played it, on a club system it just blows you away.

thirding the love for 'build her'; it's DEEEEP. Would blow me away in a dark basement.

Yeah, love it. I'm not all that familiar with Prof Delacroix or his many aliases, but it seems he's from Oakland, CA since the myspace for the deepblak label (http://www.myspace.com/deepblak) that I assume he runs (most all the releases are from his various aliases) is located there. For some reason, that's surprising to me. Anyway, this track makes me interested in his other stuff. Any recommendations?

Hopping on the bandwagon, that's definitely a great tune. I should really keep a closer eye on Deeply Rooted House.

Also really liking this new Marcel Wave (aka Tanner Ross) on Freerange. Serafin remix is nice and wonky, too.

"oh and pipecock, i added you to my 'blogroll.'

-- the table is the table"

what blog is yours?

the ill Deeply Rooted House jam is this:

http://www.discogs.com/release/292849

love that shit.

And don't forget this one:

http://www.discogs.com/release/923477

fuck that shit, omar-s ain't down with it

record from last year that has surprised me by growing on me a LOT: melchior's no disco future. i've been listening to it in my car for days.

pipecock, i am at deepmovements.blogspot.com .

i haven't been listening to much new stuff, as i've said before. but i cannot stop listening to moodymann. ta.

oh but you added me right after i typed that. maybe?

ah cool, yeah i saw a couple new blogs linked to us right when you mentioned that. i only added one of them to our blogroll, so you passed muster without me knowing it was you ;) nice one.

i love nu-nu, btw, nice to have that one on mp3. i probably listen to 10 times more old stuff than new, so i feel you on that one.

shame on me for sleeping on No Disco Future.....I've listened to "Water Soul" over 20 times today, 12 in a row at least, seriously deep/hypnotic minimal

table your blog is one of my favourites. 'nu nu' and 'sirenes' just two of some great ups.

'Water Soul' is god-like. It mystifies me why Melchior doesn't get more press.

http://ghostly.com/1.0/spectral/spc054.shtml

OMG. So good.

Seriously, Downtown is blowing my mind. I bet pipecock gets a massive erection while listening to this.

I have to buy it, soon. I think his productions tend to be a bit. . . dry, but when he puts a thick, deep melody on top, (like water soul) it's like the heavens being pulled down to earth.
Anyone heard Aria by Lee Jones, so far 2 reliable sources have lauded it as incredible, which at least inspired me to download the original mix of there comes a time, which is certainly very good too. I'm actually excited to hear this, which is good, because a week ago I was considering stopping or at least vastly reducing time spent following new dance music.

that osborne sounds good. i'm looking forward to it.

"I bet pipecock gets a massive erection while listening to this.

-- Mr. Goodman"

i dont know about an erection, but it sounds very nice. osborne is one of the few cats on ghostly who gets it right, i still need to hunt down the "outta sight" 12", every time ive tried to order it it is out of stock.

get it in the 720

osborne is one of the few only cats on ghostly who gets it right...

Outta Sight is a great single for sure.

Not to big on Osborn personally, but the section of Outta Sight from 2:40 to 3:15 is pure, unadulterated wonderfulness.

osborne is one of the few only cats on ghostly who gets it right...

-- Display Name, Monday, February 11, 2008 9:34 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

perhaps there's an anti-Ghostly discussion on here, but you and pipecock will have to expound on this...

No Matthew Dear/Audion? Lusine? (actually I can't get past 3 maybe 4 truly quality Ghostly artists)

I have this single sided 12" by osborn/e. only kept that post-early deepchord, run of the mill basic channel-type release because it was from the d, first, and thanks to its' system-annihilating pressing quality. that thing is among the loudest I own

wasn't surprised to learn the guy used to be a big big d&b fanatic. BASS

No Tadd Mullinix/James T. Cotton/Dabrye love here?

"perhaps there's an anti-Ghostly discussion on here, but you and pipecock will have to expound on this...

No Matthew Dear/Audion? Lusine? (actually I can't get past 3 maybe 4 truly quality Ghostly artists)

-- Malcolm Money"

not feeling any of their stuff (outside of dear's "hands up for detroit").

"No Tadd Mullinix/James T. Cotton/Dabrye love here?

-- matt2"

he would be the other Ghostly stable artist i really like. i have a couple other things on the labels (the danny wang 12" springs to mind) but its mostly stuff by outside artists.

also, part 2 of that Noleian Reusse mix is up on my blog now:

http://infinitestatemachine.com/2008/02/12/guest-mix-noleian-reusse-black-tekno-vol-2/

check it

No one's mentioned new Chicago label Emphasis Recordings yet. I'm very impressed with their releases so far, including Tang-"ominous" and Intrinsic -"Dream Express"
Both have that reverb-heavy deepness that will appeal to the same folks liking Prof. Delacroix. Also, Arne Weinberg's "Parabolum" comes to mind in this category.

my feelings about 'outta sight' are well documented, and i cannot stop listening to the sample of "detuned", lord.

melancholy-tinged dance records i am anticipating:

1. this
2. lee jones - aria
3. shocking pinks - emily (deepchord rmx)
4. alland byallow - true (lee curtiss rmx)

the entire Emily single looks ridiculous.....I can't wait to hear the Lee Douglas, Echospace and Deepchord remixes

"Style: Indie Rock, Dub Techno, Glitch, Deep House, Ambient, Breakbeat, Downtempo"

what no disco? =:P

repurposed from my blog, my february top 10:

Los Updates, "Pictures of You (Tobias Remix)" (Cadenza)
Los Updates are Jorge Gonzales (of Chilean rockers Los Prisioneros, and also of the Gonzalo Martinez project alongside Martin Schopf, aka Dandy Jack) and friends; the upcoming release from Cadenza features Gonzalez being remixed by Ricardo Villalobos, Luciano, Dandy Jack, et al. Welcome is the fact that the package includes a 13-minute version of "4 Wheel Drive," my favorite cut off Villalobos' Fabric 36; more welcome still is this remix by Tobias Freund. I heard it in his studio a month or so back and was promptly floored, but I couldn't be sure it wasn't just the Kreuzberg kind that was getting my ears in excellent condition. Nope. Wonky deep house with robot soul to spare and more color than I've heard in an "electronic" record since Sun Electric… or Thomas Dolby. Brilliant. And 100% pop. My #1 track of 2008 so far.

Tuomi, "Expense of Spirit" (Macro)
A group project featuring voice, piano, strings, and electronics is the first proper signing to Stefan Goldmann and Finn Johanssen's Macro imprint, the label responsible for last year's amazing Lunatic Fringe EP. The title track starts off as a charmingly wonky (the new meme for 2008?) bit of deep house and blossoms into a flat-out gorgeous psychedelic torch song by the end.

Discodeine, "Tema di Gamma" (DIRTY)
French editerrorists DIRTY tap Discodeine, aka Pilooski and Pentile, for the first "proper" release on the label, and it's a corker. Prepared piano, sour harmonics, and battered bell tones melt together into an alloy fondue laced with LSD. (Hear it on Pitchfork here).

François K, "Road of Life (Quiet Village Dub)" (Wave)
I'd forgotten how good this track was until I was reminded of its very existence by Quiet Village themselves yesterday (lovely guys, btw). Imagine Radio Slave remixing Konono No. 1 and you'll get the idea.

Extrawelt, "DistTheme" (Kompass Musik)
Someone's patch cables are on fire. Sounds like Panasonic recording for Border Community, which in my book is one of those heaven-made matches you can only dream about.

Lee Jones, "Aria (Tiger Stripes Remix)" (Aus)
Nothing fancy—just tight, shuffly minimal house positively slathered with unexpected tone color: the perfection of an ideal type.

Goldfrapp, "A&E (Hercules and Love Affair Remix)" (Mute)
The Gui Boratto remix is just about what you'd expect, complete with vocals so overblown I wouldn't be surprised to hear the track played in Paul Van Dyk sets. But Hercules and Love Affair strips it down to a slow and spindly grind, complete with African chants, church bells, and overheated 909s. His forthcoming album is also genius: for once, believe the hype.

Gadi Mizrahi, I Know EP (Wolf + Lamb)
The closest anyone has come to replicating the spirit of Closer Musik since that group's untimely demise? Mournful pads, tumbling hand drums, whispers, dub delay, beats that stray far from the 4/4, plus a great Ryan Crosson remix. If you thought Wolf + Lamb just threw good parties, think again.

Andomat 3000, "BND2 (Luke Solomon Remix)" (Four:Twenty)
Ando and Solomon have done a spate of mutual remixes recently, and one is struck by how far each seems to be pushing the other. I was always a fan of Music for Freaks, but it's hard to believe that this is the same Luke Solomon, both here and on his fantastic solo album debut for REKIDS.

Arne Michel, "Danke / Good Bye (Chat Noir Remix)" (Lan Muzic)
My labelmate Arne Michel comes up with a deep and shoomping slab of melodic house that wouldn't sound out of place on Connaisseur or Border Community; Pan-Pot's Tassilo gives it that extra bit of heft. I expect to reach for this one frequently.

look forward to hearing these...good to see you back, I thought you'd gone off to Law School or something!

what does wonky mean? i see that everywhere now.

It's like shonky but less wonky

Innervisions just posted two cuts on their Myspace from their new 2x12" Secret Weapons comp. Francois K's remix of Nina Simone "Here Comes the Sun" is pretty and deep but not particularly noteable. DJ Disciple teams up with David Tort & DJ Ruff (lots of question marks here) for another disappointing track. Maybe I'm just not in the right mood or it's a "headphones at work" problem.

I see they've also got a new 12" by Henrik Schwarz and Amampondo, a band from South Africa. http://www.discogs.com/release/1240779 Could be interesting. I was also surprised to read in Sasse's pre-RA podcast interview that HS and he are working on an Asshole & Gentleman album. But I like them both, so at least it has potential.

luke solomon's gone off the deep end

(see what i did there?)

I see what you did there.

I dunno, that FK remix of Nina sounds great to me. It's like "Here Comes the Sun (Can You Feel It Remix)" but this tired Friday night, I can't imagine much sounding better. I love Nina's work dearly, though, and I've been know to listen to "Can You Feel It" for days on end, so maybe my liking it is inevitable.

reach for me - paul woolford's 11 minutes of magic remix

100% accurate title for this remix

Just ordered new Diynamic record, and the new ones from James Priestley/Dan Berkson and Pepe Bradock. All sound pretty good to me - hope they live up to their potential because these are the last records I will be able to order for awhile.

the new diynamic is a great record, love the soap opera organ on "radar" and the brooding piano riff on "milkyway" is pure heart ache - so pretty!

the new move d on uzuri is astonishing!!

Re: aria. Ah, reminded of the powers of overhyping things up to yourself, still really quite good though, and despite my really not caring about Tigerstripes, he's done a beast of a remix.

And good on Resident Advisor for doing a feature on Alan Abrahams (Bodycode et al.)

The recentish Bodycode 12" with body to body/the centre of time is really great. I think he's really a unique producer with a lot of talent.

Oh man, he's releasing something on Perlon too. . .

A flashback:

DJ SHO #0
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=MjVtZEUzTmFTRTdIRGc9PQ
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=MjVtZEU2eFhGOFRIRGc9PQ

"The recentish Bodycode 12" with body to body/the centre of time is really great. I think he's really a unique producer with a lot of talent.

-- mehlt"

i picked that Yore joint up recently because i had liked all the other Yore records and i could get it from one of the US distros going under for like $4. so i got it without listening first. big mistake. it didnt even make it through 35 seconds of listening before it went into the sell pile. i just dont like that jungle sounding bass on house or techno records, it sounds so wrong. maybe his other stuff is different, but that one was pretty much exactly not what i am looking for.

I haven't heard the Yore track in question but I've always wondered why house and techno producers never expermimented with those Ed Rush style basslines more. Probably because it sounds shit haha. I seem to remember Basement Jaxx using some dirty sounding basslines on some of their earlier productions to good effect.

That "jungle sounding bass" is exactly the kind of thing I like to hear in minimal,

Body To Body in particular is a recent favorite.

More deep house with jungle and speed garage influences please!

Jona is often speed garage-ish, albeit in more of a plinky plonky New Horizons meets Dreem Teem kinda way - check "Yellowstone", "Full Pool" and his remix of "Body Language".

Thanks Tim, Full Pool even has xylophone bass.

His remix of Michal Ho's Takeaway is pretty cool too.

Speaking of Jena (har har),

Robag Wruhme did sound for this motion graphic-y installation (criss-crossing of my interests here):
http://www.2minds.de/phyletic-museum.107.0.html

Siriusmo is the jams. Allthegirls and Diskoding get down for 2008.

New james t. cotton has some great moments too. The Boxx @ 3:45 is bliss.

re: jungle/speed garage basslines in minimal house; sonja moonear - 99 erikas from last year uses one to great effect.

have we talked about pitta - sexvibe on here yet? it has that moodymann/theo parrish vibe that seems quite popular in minimal lately(arpiar 'rose rouge' remix, 'border times' by the mole, radioslave 'dedication'), just really simple, intoxicating loop house. would like to see more of this style emerge in the deeper end of minimal, especially the use of breakbeats and samples, it seems a bit more vibrant and less of a dead end than the chord heavy liebe-detail/mountain people et al style (although i cannot get enough of that sound at the moment either!)

some other newish things i've been enjoying:

dop - Foly (Robag Wruhme 'B Schnitte' remix)
brokeback aka dennis ferrer - 36 degrees (london beats)
luke solomon - space invaders (andomat 3000 remix) <----hendrix sample!!!
rose - macadame shamanbo
sascha dive - annihalating rhythm
pepe braddock - intriguing feathered creature

the forthcoming jay haze record on tuning spork is excellent, on 'ass to mouth' disembodied heads battle it out at a beat-box convention refereed by a slo-mo dj deeon, while on the other side co-produced by villalobos, an inverted rhodes melody constricts itself around a deep, dark twisted tribal house march kept in line by big messy out of sync handclaps and toms. both tracks have a strong 90s second wave chicago feel to them, in fact the riardo vs jay tracks is like a gothic dj pierre or something.

'ass to mouth' is an horrible name for a track, i'm sure the track itself makes up for it but still.

it makes sense in the context of the kinda mid-90s jacking chicago house it references though.

it's a great title!!

I assumed it was a wry play off of mouth to mouth. Either was it's still disgusting.

Duly noted that mehlt is not an ass man.

next up will be 'ass to ass' with Requiem For a Dream dialogue samples

new stl on perlon predictably kills it

yeah, i asssumed it ws a 'mouth to mouth' reference. is it as good as? xpost.

Laff/cringe @ dmr's comment. I will never see that movie again.

STL 4 LIFE

yes, yes, STL on Perlon is fantastic. New on one STL's Something good also. Heard Matt "Radio Slave" Edwards drop "Something Is Raw" in a club a couple of weeks ago too.. works really well.

BROS

"brokeback aka dennis ferrer - 36 degrees (london beats)"

i rate this as well.

can't wait to hear that jay haze.

xp

Scott Groove's Only 500 - this is lovely. Any love for Pom Pom 31?

lol again at the lex, not sure he knows what space-battle soul is as this week he uses it in relation to carl craig's remix of beanfield's 'tides'. still, 5 out of 5 is nice to see in a national paper and describing 'in the trees' as "straight up banging, a war of lights and lasers that gets sucked into a wormhole midway through" is otm 'cept i'm not sure where the wormhole is.

Oh my God, I bought Face A L'est by Guillaume and the Coutu Dumonts today, and I'm halfway through now.

Ooooooooooooooooh, I'm in heaven. You know how some music just bypasses all the nonsense and goes straight to your brain (not to mention your feet and hips) and you just can't not give in and be immersed in it. It's that sort of thing, like I mean, I think Guillaume may be like, top 3 most important producers of the day. Everything he touches turns to euphoric gold, and wow, like, quality. Although I don't get the chance to buy many full length dance albums (I really must get the the onur ozer, melchior prod. uusitalo, and pronsato albums), this one so far feels really special.

also, I think I may create some sort of techno/house bobbins past thread, as a place to bring/group together all talk about noteworthy dance music we hear that isn't new. Personally, following new music is really burning me out, so I'd like to start consuming music without certain pressures, and also, it's a place for people to say, discuss a record from 5 years ago or something. This is unless theres some sort of great oversight to see some reason not to do this.

A suggestion I'd support.

I was left a little underwhelmed with "Face A L'est," in part because I believe Guillaume has proven to wow me in smaller chunks more often. It's an enjoyable record, to be sure, but one I find to be stretched too tight on its aesthetic theme. That said, his run of singles have been nothing short of incredible as of late.

Brendon Moeller's "One Man's Junk EP" is getting surprising little attention for how fantastic and fresh it is. I can't wait to play out "N-Train."

Cecille Records is shaping up to be a buy on sight label for me, with SIS, Andomat 3000, Johnny D, Markus Fix so far. They've got their newest on the Myspace. Nick Curly strikes again.

A lot of it is also that I was weaned on montreal-house, so this is extra pleasant.

Oh god, I think Cecille's is going to be (if not already is) one of the best reasons to pay attention to new dance music.

a place for people to say, discuss a record from 5 years ago or something

i like this idea, as i prob buy more old 12" than new..

"also, I think I may create some sort of techno/house bobbins past thread, as a place to bring/group together all talk about noteworthy dance music we hear that isn't new. Personally, following new music is really burning me out, so I'd like to start consuming music without certain pressures, and also, it's a place for people to say, discuss a record from 5 years ago or something. This is unless theres some sort of great oversight to see some reason not to do this.

-- mehlt"

a great idea, i probably buy more old stuff than new, but i DEFINITELY listen to more old stuff than new.

I think it is a good idea, more and more I am finding old stuff I love and enjoying fitting it into sets but my knowledge of anything from 80s/90s is iffy so any chance to find/discuss more gems would be great.

Not new new bobbins, but mountain people 05 (both sides) is still amazing.

actually thinking of picking up francois k "masterpiece" 3cd mix for some reason today.

any newer opinions on it?!?

yeah, pick up something else. :(

like this or this or this or this or this

aaron carl - crucified (rod modell like a river remix)

^^^this record is amazing

"cassy: panoramabar 01" vs "fuse presents steve bug" vs "jamie jones: get lost vol 2"

yeah sorry about that i was just digging through the new releases at juno. out of those links i posted i have the kohncke (good) and the prosumer (really good). has anyone heard the perspectiv comp yet?

no

i think maybe i'll get modeselektor's "boogy bytes", been wanting that for a while now

you could probably find it used, too. i haven't been buying mix cds lately (except for the fk and sessions), just mostly albums and singles.

got anothing thing from Noleian Reusse on my blog:

http://infinitestatemachine.com/2008/03/02/one-more-from-noleian-reusse-black-tekno-edits/

for those who enjoyed his live mixes, this is a set of edits he did. really nice stuff on this one.

i would like a tracklisting for that 1st black tekno mix ... starts w/a model 500 track from "deep space", right?

that, maurizio (or is it vainquer?) and villalobos are the only things i recognize from that entire mix

he won't give out tracklists. if there is a specific one you're looking for, i can ask him. i forget the title of the model 500 one but yeah that is part 1 that starts with it. i know a couple off of the edits mix "love tempo", "dem young sconies", and "acid life" which are amongst my all time favorite dance tracks. those three are constantly in my bag.

the edits mix seems to include an edit of "put your hands up for detroit"! (just before "acid life")

i *know* the acid track that starts the whole mix, but i forget what it is ... is it aphex?

"dem young sconies" @ 6:15, "love tempo" at 15:15, right.

hmm, it could be. it is familair to me too but im not sure where from. i am the worst person ever at IDing tracks, i miss shit i own and play out all the time.

yeah on DYS, though he teases with parts of it through the first couple of minutes. and yeah that is love tempo at 15:15. i LOVE that track.

be music was an ill label

i keep meaning to get the part 2 of that be music comp, the one w/ all the arthur baker productions on it

HEY TIM FINNEY

did you ever hear "get lost vol 2" mixed by jamie jones?

Say I was getting stuck on 2000 and One and Serafin/Mountain People tracks these days. Who else might I want to dig up?