Todd Rundgren: C or D

But I can't stand Frank Zappa.

I'm really enjoying listening to The Nazz right now, thanks to the recently issued "Todd Sings The Nazz" CD. Seems like all they needed was a good singer. But I think we did The Nazz recently too, so I'll shut up now.

I searched, I searched! Anybody got the link?

damn.

new Rundgren LP - Arena - sort of a metal/stoner guitar record.
sounds good on paper, but the thing itself- i've seen better.
it's not the Todd it used to be..

My friends got me tickets to see him in November...kinda dreading it...never seen him live before and fear it could be a carwreck...

He's coming to the super-small community theatre in my town next month.

Haven't heard this, but the last one, Liars, was a huge return to form and probably his best record since the 1970's...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00qbzqv

"Bang on the Drum" is the best of the "Turn that off! That song couldn't be any more played out TURN IT OFF" songs.

Busy in Louisiana helping kids in the 9th Ward according to Offbeat magazine:

Todd Rundgren is coming to Louisiana in a big way: Not only is he playing the House of Blues (on June 23) and hosting his Toddstock fan convention at the Nottoway Plantation in White Castle, but he’ll be making a side trip to the Upper 9th Ward on June 19, where he’ll join the Youth Orchestra of the Lower 9th Ward (YOL9W) to celebrate his 65th birthday

This month he launched a fan campaign to raise money for the YOL9W; as of this week they’d taken in more than $3,000. He’s also invited fans to design a logo for the Orchestra; the winning entry will be unveiled at the event. The after-school music program aims for social change through music; the group has played eight concerts this year and worked onstage with the Preservation Hall Jazz Band.

As part of the visit, the group will perform at least one of Rundgren’s songs with him.

So I've been a fan of Wizard and the pop hits on Very Best of for a little while and have just started exploring his vast discography. I've been listening fairly obsessively. Right now, I almost feel like he was classic on a Beatles level. The guy is almost depressingly talented. Not only is he wildly eclectic but he achieves a fairly high level of mastery at most of the things he attempted: singing, lead guitar, synths (and every other instrument on some albums!), production, songwriting; post-Beatles/Beach Boys pop-rock, 70s singer-songwriter tunes, post-Hendrix guitar solos, eccentric 1-minute art-pop songs, Zappa-meets-Yes epic prog, soul-pop balladeering, electronic new wave, wholesale replications of difficult works by classic artists. I'm pretty surprised by how consistently good I find many of his albums, considering how eclectic they are. I like all of these without much reservation: Runt; Something/Anything; A Wizard, a True Star; Hermit of Mink Hollow; Healing; the first two Utopia albums; Faithful. Plus, there's some really good stuff on Todd and Initiation (didn't get into that 35-min synthesizer composition though).

Faithful

I mean, I imagine that side 1 of this becomes pretty inessential once you get past how impressive it was as an exercise.

He was the all-in-one studio whiz that Prince modeled himself after

there are more than a few moments where he doesn't sound like the model for prince so much as he just simply sounds like prince. his version of "never never land" on wizard for example.

Utopia's Deface the Music is way way better so far as a pastiche/homage/parody type thing goes, tho Faithful isn't really that, but y'know. Amazing record

that's weird; I had a dream about XTC last night and woke up thinking about the Rundgren-produced albums, then opened my computer to see this thread. I suppose I need to hear his own stuff now

Imago, A Wizard, a True Star is still my favourite so I highly recommend that one. However, I'd also be interested to know what you'd think of the first Utopia album (this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Rundgren's_Utopia_(album) ), since it was his full-on prog album.

Deface the Music was actually the first TR album where I felt turned off pretty soon. It just reminded me of a kind of Beatlesque indie twee-pop that I don't care for. But maybe I'll try again. It's possible that I wasn't in the mood at the time. I didn't make it the whole way through. I love the Beatles so I'm not sure exactly what the problem was.

When you say "Runt", do you mean "Runt" or "Runt. The Ballad of Todd Rundgren"

I meant the former, the one with "We Gotta Get You a Woman". I still haven't listened to all of The Ballad of.

I saw him live last night. full on EDM for the most part! The only old song he played was "secret society" from POV, wtf. Oh and he did EDM covers of "personality crisis" and "prime time". 3 piece band, electronic drum kit (think it was prarie prince), lasers, multiple pairs of scifi goggles. Some great guitar solos from Todd and the other guitarist, but todd was mainly singing and dancing. Idk, it was weird.

t/s: oblivion vs. P.O.V.

circle of amour by prince sounds pretty todd-y.

Imago... I'd also be interested to know what you'd think of the first Utopia album (this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Rundgren's_Utopia_(album) ), since it was his full-on prog album.

Not Imago here, but if I may interrupt, I'd say it was...

http://lyriki.com/images/thumb/a/a4/AlbumArt-Various_Artists-Best_Prog_Rock_Album_(2003).jpg/250px-AlbumArt-Various_Artists-Best_Prog_Rock_Album_(2003).jpg

Oh, and Evening Star, stick with the 35-min synth composition ('A Treatise on Cosmic Fire'). I've always loved the first half of this, and then, about 30 years later, I finally learned to appreciate the rest of it!

"The Ikon" is really quite amazing - one of the greatest (and longest) prog epics. I never came around to "Treatise" but the start of part three (when things really start to go into full freak mode) is entertaining.

i adore the main riff of "the ikon". those first two utopia albums are so much fun. i could listen to Mid70s Todd and Roer jams forever.

roer = roger powell

that part in the Ikon when it turns into one of Todd's trademark awesome R&B ballads - the "you don't have to be afraid" bit, it always floors me because its really out of nowhere.

heres the real question - is he worth seeing live nowadays? he's coming to Milwaukee and tickets aren't really too bad - my Dad is big into Todd and I was thinking about taking him.

I saw him live last night. full on EDM for the most part! The only old song he played was "secret society" from POV, wtf. Oh and he did EDM covers of "personality crisis" and "prime time". 3 piece band, electronic drum kit (think it was prarie prince), lasers, multiple pairs of scifi goggles. Some great guitar solos from Todd and the other guitarist, but todd was mainly singing and dancing. Idk, it was weird.

― brimstead, Saturday, July 13, 2013 7:17 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Most of his new stuff is still really soulful, though, he opened with "truth" from Liars and that's kind of where the new stuff branches out from.

my bad, didnt fully read the thread - I dunno if that's good or bad, I don't think either of us have heard anything even up to POV, but his new stuff does get good reviews. interesting

i just remembered that he DID play a medley of "hello it's me"/"i saw the light"/"can we still be friends" for the encore. all sidechain-y dance pop versions.

I'm astounded by how great the second side of Faithful is - combine it with side one of Initiation and you've got a hell of a record

for all the praise "Couldn't I Just Tell You" seems to get, "Love of the Common Man" is basically just as good, and maybe even more repeatable

IDM covers of "personality crisis" and "prime time".

I was just gonna ask "The Tubes' "Prime Time?" and then I went to youtube. Uh, yeah, that's kinda goofy. The synths sound way too thin and cheesy.

Love of the Common Man is great

this guy is a piece of shit

a soulless fake prog nilsson is no way to go through life, son

There is nothing fake about Rundgren's prog.

Ummmm

a soulless fake prog nilsson

Even if this was true, it sounds like it would be pretty cool.

soulless? have you heard "the last ride"?

when i met her, it felt like the first time i heard "bang on the drum all day"

haha this dude makes my skin literally crawl so there's really no reasoning w/my unfettered hatred y'all!

and i respect the classic rock canon too! seriously! name me someone who respects it more! you can't! but i can't hang w/this dude so gross

Haha M@tt, thanks for the new DN!

Todd's career is kinda like Stephen King's to me; I've hung with him through some ill-advised crap, and there's a bunch I've skipped entirely, but I think when he's on he's pretty great. sund4r otm upthread re: post-Beatles/Beach Boys pop-rock, 70s singer-songwriter tunes, post-Hendrix guitar solos, eccentric 1-minute art-pop songs, Zappa-meets-Yes epic prog, soul-pop balladeering, electronic new wave... and I would add yacht rock. And Prince.

i just tried again today, i always try again with certain classic rock artists that i don't like

maybe next time

he also produced stage fright by the band like shit, kinda irritated by that as well, they had andy johns version of the songs on the expanded reissue, sounded so much better

"Couldn't I just Tell You" flies by in a warp of ecstasy and guitar

The single mp3 in my collection with the highest play count is Tic Tic Tic, It Wears Off. I wish it had an ending, though. So suspenseful!

You should check out The Nazz

maybe you needn't try again with Todd. he irritates most of the people who actually like him so what chance do you have?

"fake prog" is a strange accusation though. he went prog when he was on the verge of becoming a huge pop star, so it's hard to me to not believe he's sincere about it. that first Utopia album is legit as hell.

I feel like as a person, deep inside he is not prog. He could make any type of prog music but it would not resonate with me. He's a prog studio gangsta.

There's also something about him that makes me want to punch him for no reason at all.

envy

I mean, for this song alone... how the hell was this not a huge hit? Love this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNN96qYE9kg

I completely refuse to engage with this on any level although I'm getting an ulcer...

Ladies, ladies settle down like I said I'll keep at it

gym coach

Hit the showers champ

how the hell was this not a huge hit?

i like todd and i like "love of the common man," but it could've used a better singer tbh.

Utopia's "Freak Parade" is really great".

Still need quite a lot of his albums. Hermit Of Mink Hollow or Wizard A True Star are my favorites.

Black Mariah!

4 disc "at the bbc1972-1982" came out this week.

wonder if it has the old grey whistle test performance of "tiny demons", just vocals and guitar. it's good stuff.

Esoteric Recordings are pleased to announce the first ever official release of TODD RUNDGREN AT THE BBC. This four-disc collection comprises three CDs and a DVD (NTSC / Region Free) featuring all of the surviving radio and television broadcasts in the BBC archive transmitted on radio and television in the UK between 1972 and 1982. The set features on CD Todd's solo 1972 BBC Radio One ""In Concert"" performance, recorded soon after the release of his seminal album ""Something Anything"", the classic 1975 performance by Todd Rundgren and Utopia at Hammersmith Odeon, London, (including a previously unreleased track 'Something's Coming') - on the first ever UK concert tour of Todd Rundgren and Utopia, a 1977 performance at the Oxford Polytechnic by Todd Rundgren and Utopia (promoting the ""Ra"") album, and a DVD featuring three different performances for the classic ""Old Grey Whistle Test"" series; the 1975 Todd Rundgren and Utopia session, a film of Todd Rundgren & Utopia at the Bearsville Picnic in 1977 (performing 'Singring and the Glass Guitar') and the entire recordings made for a 1982 solo Todd Rundgren Whistle Test special (including two songs not featured on the original TV broadcast). This set is sure to delight the legions of Todd Rundgren fans and is a superb document of Todd's continuing development as both a solo artist and with his band Utopia between 1972 and 1982.

i think it's weird he's not mentioned more as a progenitor of electronic pop

$12.49 on Amazon MP3, price is certainly right

26 tracks of this on Spotify.

anything ever come of his collaboration between Lindstrom, Todd Rundgren, and Serena-Maneesh?

might have to go see this latest Todd tour, in which he's onstage with 2 female singers and a DJ/keyboardist who apparently will be Dam-Funk (!!?)

Highly recommended for all early-'70s Todd lovers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqW7EfA3VWE

might have to go see this latest Todd tour, in which he's onstage with 2 female singers and a DJ/keyboardist who apparently will be Dam-Funk (!!?)

I think I might take my Dad, who has been a fan of Todd for four decades now, but I agree, I kinda want to read a review or two first

the fact that it's Dam-Funk is sort of encouraging, because i still believe he can do something not-terrible with EDM/modern electronics, he's just really out of touch and needs a young person to steer him.

speaking of todd and electronics, has anybody heard the pure electronic "sequences" at the end of this disc? http://www.discogs.com/Todd-Rundgren-SomewhereAnywhere-Unreleased-Tracks/release/2414213
seriously insane proto-techno.

I've been listening a lot to Healing, maybe not exactly an "electronic" album but, I dunno, kinda ahead of the curve for 1981, using synths and drum machines in a different context than almost anyone else was back then

definitely want to track those S/A unreleased tracks. Todd's 70's electro stuff is really interesting in parts. That giant honker on the end of Initiation is a real snooze but there are some really crazy parts if you wanna wait for them

I wouldn't say Todd "needs" a younger, hipper guy. Liars is a pretty amazing album—I probably listen to it every year or so—and it's all electronic and all him.

As for Healing, for more discussion go here:

Here We Discuss Todd Rundgren's Bizarro "Healing"

Has anyone checked out Global yet?

Not a bad effort from the old fart but too heavy-handed musically - needs a way lighter touch imho. Also the lyrics often sound like they are lifted directly from late-90s techno records.

I was just listening to State last week. I would say the same about that. "Ping Me," yikes. But the tunes are good.

curious about this Runddans collabration with Lindstrom

The new album is on Spotify btw.

Re the Lindstrom thing, this has been out for a while:
https://soundcloud.com/smalltownsupersound/lindstrom-quiet-place-to-live

I don't see it on Spotify in the U.S.

curious about this Runddans collabration with Lindstrom

Out today I believe and on Spotify. Going to need to listen a bit more closely than I can when I'm in the car w my kids but at first blush it sounds like kind of a brilliant amalgam of Lindstrøm's thing and Todd's mid-70s Utopia sensibilities.

just FYI : long article/interview in the new mojo with Todd ..

Been listening to this a ton the last few days. I love it. It feels like classic Todd not only because it's catchy as all hell but also because it goes in a ton of bizarre directions including chopping up a phone conversation they have about (according to Pitchfork) how to end the album.

In some ways Todd is like Miles Davis – he'd rather fail miserably than get stuck doing the same thing over and over. Hard not to admire that and easy to when it produces collaborations like this.

Interesting to read Todd fan views and compare them with the shrugs on the Lindstrom thread. I do like the central melody ("Put Your Arms Around Me") but it's too flimsy to sustain a 38-minute album, and the other material just isn't strong enough. Basically, this could have been so much better with more focus and one more (good) musical idea.

Not sure what "other material" you're talking about. The whole thing is built around that "Put Your Arms Around Me" melody. I think the more interesting thing is how he, in classic Todd fashion, gets you to this unbelievable climax and proceeds to tear it apart with a crowbar for the next 15 minutes.

Bonus: lots of awesome squealy "Last Ride"-style guitar in this.

The "Think I'm going out of my head" section's an attempt at a second subject (it comes back later), but it's rubbish.

For those who like Todd's early 70s R&B phase, he recorded a series of tunes for Live from Daryl House in 2011.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prOYxFPoKSM

The "Think I'm going out of my head" section's an attempt at a second subject (it comes back later), but it's rubbish.

Not sure that's a second theme – more a simple variation over the descending "Put Your Arms Around Me" chord progression. If there's anything that qualifies as a secondary theme it's the whole "Come awake, come awake, open up your eyes" rising sequence in "Ravende Gal" which I think is pretty terrific (and cosmic as fuck).

Todd must be amused at how closely most of the reviews read like befuddled mid-70s Utopia criticism:

"This stuff meanders!"
"Where's the climax?"
"Just as it sounds like it's going somewhere, they blow it up!"
"Where are all the beats?"

I think it's actually pretty fantastic that they didn't decide to just put Todd over some four-to-the-floor disco grooves and instead took this stuff in a purely progressive direction for three quarters of an hour. I mean, different strokes for different zygotes and all. But from some of the reactions, it seems some folks have a hard time lasting that long these days.

Don't you ever listen?
Don't you ever learn?
The hand may find you
It's time to take a turn
You think this life is something strange
You're ready for another change
But don't you ever learn?
Don't you ever learn?
Don't you ever listen?
Don't you ever learn?
The world is on fire
Your body doesn't burn
Kill yourself before receiving
Something out of all this breathing
Don't you ever learn?
Say don't you ever learn?
You ever learn?
Don't you ever learn?
Don't you ever learn?
Don't you ever learn?
...

listened to discs 1 through 3 of the bbc box. the first disc has some nice piano + voice renditions of his early ballads. interminable version of the worthless "piss aaron", however. the full band tracks towards the end sound kind of weak.

discs 2 and 3 are sick as hell explosive sloppy balls to the wall glistening gleaming heavy prog. just ridiculous.

Got into "A Wizard, A True Star" very heavily for a few months last year. My landlord found out and lent me his copy of the vinyl. Some incredible album art here.

Tried listening to his other albums and it may just be too prog for me at the moment. I do like his approach to one and two-minute long avant pop. Kind of a weird Guided By Voices vibe w the bite-sized song lineup AWATS. A very heavy Flaming Lips vibe to the drums.

This is one of those records that sort of made me go "Aha! So that's where they got it!" about indie rockers on just about every track.

Pretty sure Of Montreal would not exist at all without this record.

The last big track of Initiation and his stuff in Utopia seems to me the only thing more proggy than Wizard A True Star (of his work in the 70s)

I think _Todd_ is probably Todd at peak prog. Something like "In and out the chakras we go" is just prog to the wall. "A Treatise on Cosmic Fire", on the other hand, is just too much of a Tales from Topographic Oceans trip for me to listen to.

"A Treatise on Cosmic Fire" sounds like that to me in name only. I can't think of any big prog bands that have a track like that.

I like Todd (1974) by far the best. I do also like Something / Anything? and ...Wizard..., but for me it's like Goldilocks in reverse - those two are Mama Bear and Baby Bear's albums/songs, but Todd is Poppa Bear's and that one works best for me: less bitty / more fleshed out, even more varied - similar effect to Sign Of The Times.

something/anything is a masterpiece huh

like this is what i want from classic 70s studio rock

p much

give or take a few songs on the last side

yea

I'm going to his Brooklyn bowl show on Tuesday: the previous three I've seen ('91 for Nearly Human; '96 for the bullshit cocktail culture cash-in, 03-04 solo) were unsatisfying, but I have the notion looking at set lists and knowing that he's using Prairie, Kasim and Gress that I'll be pleased. Its $35 in that club, which is very good hang, and it seems like a steal for a guy who means so much to me, blah blah, see the giants while you can blah blah they might drop dead tmw blah blah.

Kinda wish I went to see the original utopia reunion or AWTATS or the Healer shows…

I regret missing him a month ago when he came through, only $30 in a club setting, but I just couldn't commit.

Buyer beware...Saw him a few years ago at Ronnie Scott's. It was on a greatest hits tour but Todd decides he's going to treat the crowd to his tribute to Robert Johnson. 2 interminable hours later I decide I shan't be spending £50 on Todd Rundgren tickets again. Even the band looked pissed...

I heard about that, and the EDM shows he did a few years ago. By all accounts he's doing a career-long "best of" this time around.

tracklisting for his new album, dunno whether or not to be excited for this - that's a hell of a guest list

1.Come
2.I Got Your Back (featuring KK Watson with Dam Funk)
3.Chance For Us (featuring Daryl Hall with Bobby Strickland)
4.Fiction
5.Beginning Of The End (featuring John Boutte)
6.Tin Foil Hat (featuring Donald Fagen)
7.Look At Me (featuring Michael Holman)
8.Let's Do This (with Moe Berg)
9.Sleep (with Joe Walsh)
10.That Could Have Been Me (featuring Robyn)
11.Deaf Ears (featuring Trent Reznor & Atticus Ross)
12.Naked & Afraid (featuring Bettye LaVette)
13.Buy My T
14.Wouldn't You Like To Know (featuring Rebop Rundgren)
15.This Is Not A Drill (featuring Joe Satriani with Prairie Prince & Kasim Sulton)

Rebop Rundgren! How did I never know this amazing tidbit before?!

damn not too many folks could unite Bettye LaVette, Joe Satriani, Trent Reznor, and Donald Fagen

Awesome track list

Saw him in NYC at a benefit for his foundation last month – he was amazing. Voice was in incredible shape. I will never underestimate him again.

just gave No World Order a shot, and....oh man. this is wild. maybe not in a good way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxU0O0_MmPU

actually not a bad album despite sounding kinda like a shitty Nitzer Ebb at times. if I try really hard I can see "Worldwide Epiphany" as being cut from the same cloth as "International Feel". I'm actually kinda surprised this album hasn't been drudged up by anyone lately, it's vaporwave as hell.

i've heard that no world order lite is better

damn, he made a ton of cheesy CGI videos in the 90s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHHRF7O9-NM

ok Todd rules

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5rNliIpNtk

Guess who's coming to Sheboygan, Wisconsin tomorrow???

seein him on the 23rd

28th in Pasadena, I should go this time.

You should! I went with my Dad (who 15 years ago asked me, "you're on those Russian MP3 sites right? Can you get an album called A Wizard, a True Star?") and we had a pretty good time. In case you're wondering, the set list is almost all new stuff - like 80% of it was from Liars on, including what I gathered was a big chunk of his new album (which I have not heard). Even when he delves into his back catalogue it's for something like "Love Science", the Utopia single "Secret Society", or "No World Order" (!!!), it's like he's just trying to hit as many genres as possible in two hours. I think it wound up shocking the crowd a bit - this was at a classy theater in a town with a population of 50k, the audience was packed mostly with older locals...I heard a lot of comments like "well THAT was different", particularly on the heavy techno stuff and the songs where he starts rapping. But once it became clear that he wasn't going to play a Vegas-style classic rock show they got pretty into it. I mean...these songs were still pretty dang good, a lot of them felt on par with the stuff he was doing in the 70's. Anyway for the encore he finally threw the audience a bone, playing "One World", a loungey and kinda shit version of "Hello It's Me", then "Just One Victory" which brought the house down. My Dad said it was the weirdest show he's ever been to (for reference the last one he went to was The Eagles), and then said he actually loved the techno stuff and wished he'd done more. This was his third time seeing Todd, he mentioned that he saw Utopia at what must have been the height of their prog phase in like 1977, and that the audience hated it, at least until he started playing stuff like "Love of the Common Man" at the end. He also said that Todd's voice and stage presence were pretty much exactly the same as 40 years ago. Dude can still belt it out, I'm impressed. So yeah. Worth your time!

I like 'Something / Anything?' a lot but '...Wizard...' is one of the most annoying records I've ever heard. What's the best place to go next?

I'd try "Runt: The Ballad of Todd Rundgren", it's heavier on the ballads but probably the closest thing to the SA sound.
Hermit of Mink Hollow might be up your alley too, but be sure to skip "onomatopoeia"

if you think Wizard is annoying then probably nowhere

yeah maybe just buy Tapestry or the first Laura Nyro album

That's a fair answer - my reaction to Wizard was probably coloured by my realisation that I was listening to Year Zero for everything I hate about brightly-coloured modern US indie, whatever his virtues as a songwriter, producer etc.

heh i had the opposite reaction, absolutely love the manic AWATS, bored by everything else he has done (especially the Utopia-era stuff)

You should! I went with my Dad (who 15 years ago asked me, "you're on those Russian MP3 sites right? Can you get an album called A Wizard, a True Star?") and we had a pretty good time. In case you're wondering, the set list is almost all new stuff - like 80% of it was from Liars on, including what I gathered was a big chunk of his new album (which I have not heard). Even when he delves into his back catalogue it's for something like "Love Science", the Utopia single "Secret Society", or "No World Order" (!!!), it's like he's just trying to hit as many genres as possible in two hours. I think it wound up shocking the crowd a bit - this was at a classy theater in a town with a population of 50k, the audience was packed mostly with older locals...I heard a lot of comments like "well THAT was different", particularly on the heavy techno stuff and the songs where he starts rapping. But once it became clear that he wasn't going to play a Vegas-style classic rock show they got pretty into it. I mean...these songs were still pretty dang good, a lot of them felt on par with the stuff he was doing in the 70's. Anyway for the encore he finally threw the audience a bone, playing "One World", a loungey and kinda shit version of "Hello It's Me", then "Just One Victory" which brought the house down. My Dad said it was the weirdest show he's ever been to (for reference the last one he went to was The Eagles), and then said he actually loved the techno stuff and wished he'd done more. This was his third time seeing Todd, he mentioned that he saw Utopia at what must have been the height of their prog phase in like 1977, and that the audience hated it, at least until he started playing stuff like "Love of the Common Man" at the end. He also said that Todd's voice and stage presence were pretty much exactly the same as 40 years ago. Dude can still belt it out, I'm impressed. So yeah. Worth your time!

This is completely different than the benefit show for his foundation that I saw last year -- which was absolutely a Vegas-style classic rock show (with Utopia backing him) and actually a terrific one. I love him for this.

hah I looked at some old setlists and apparently he was doing this all last year. bummer I couldn't take my Dad to that since those are the same songs I hear him play on the piano. he's definitely got a neat way of dealing with the whole "aging rock star" thing.

I was a bit disappointed that "Bang on the Drum All Day" wasn't played. I know it's lame as hell but that song in particular means a lot to us Wisconsinites :P

Yeah, I actually want a "run through of the hits" type show and should have gone last year.

To Matt DC: I love the first Runt album, more poppy, fewer ballads than the second one.

Just noticed this nugget of trivia in the Something/Anything liner notes: Edward James Olmos is a backup singer on "Slut".
Huh.

I have a colleague who’s an enormous Todd fan – like lifelong obsessed – has seen him numerous times, met him more than once, sends me (unsolicited) articles/reviews, etc.

I tried listening to a few early albums once, and they sort of sounded like weird demos to me; never got any further...

touring with Utopia now

been looking at the setlists and...whoa. I might have to go see this after all.

i'm going to see 'em at the Town Hall, a venue I have 0 interest in going to. Ralph Shuckett from the 1st, none-more-prog version of the band, was sposed to stand in for Roger Powell, who doesn't wanna tour anymore. Yet Shuckett can't do it for health reasons, so apparently Rebop, the third Rundgren son who does not play minor league baseball unlike the two older sons Todd had with karen "bean" darvin, found this guy from Argentina who while evidently had never heard of Utopia and Todd, got the gig.

Todd and Willie Wilcox could not stand each other for many many years but evidently have agreed to tolerate one another.

i guess willie wilcox does sound design for video games and stuff these days

wait Rundgren has two sons in the minors? that's pretty awesome

yeah, name of rex and randy. think one or both were but no longer in the minors.

Saw this thread, then a couple things on Twitter
(me:)
In radio interview on @BigStarBand's Live at Lafayette's Music Room, AC worries that forthcoming #1 Record is too much like Rundgren, reminding me not to overemph Beatles influences; also T.Rex v. favorably mentioned; both covered here, as on several other live recordings.

Underground Jukebox
‏@clevelandbeyond
Nazz seems to have had big impact on Birmingham: “Open My Eyes” and “Under The Ice” were covered by The Move and Nazz riffs turn up in Black Sabbath songs (ie “Under The Ice” in the chorus of “Rock N Roll Doctor”). And despite everything else Rundgren was one HELL of a guitarist.
Which was a response to this:
Johnnie Johnstone
‏@tnpcollection

Original nugget, Top Todd, extremely cool vid.
Nazz - Open My Eyes
https://youtu.be/PjKx-yLOGEY

Oh yeah, and The Bangles recorded a killer "Open My Eyes" a few years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctc0oMioqPA

I've always loved the brief diversion into sunshine-pop harmonies on the bridge of "Open My Eyes", which is played up even further in the Nazz video.

"Open My Eyes" b/w "Hello It's Me" is an all-time-great first single

"Forget All about It" is another great slammin Nazz rocker (1st cut on the 2nd lp iirc)

utopia was terrific at the town hall tonight. They shoulda acknowledged the guy who came in without knowing the band, much less the keyb parts, until a month ago…

Chiefly, i would like to say the following to all the todd people on ILM… I have every TR record from '70 to '91, Ra, oops, the first Utopia album (prog opus), disco jets, have seen him now 6 times, read the book by Mike Myers brother…

yet I never heard "rock love" until tonight. Its the platonic ideal of shit that I like, by one of my favorite artists. and I never heard it before, because I did not feel like listening to every album by the band that Albert/bearsville would have preferred that he discontinue, the band that jumped every white pee-poh music trend like prog, power-pop, new wave, corp-rock, mutt lange-style shit, etc

I love it.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/todd-rundgren/2018/kelburn-castle-largs-scotland-33ea405d.html

must admit I really hope there's a recording of this

There is video when you click the play button on the right, and some are live, though I don't know if it's from that show. I'm at work and can't play the sound. Some seem to be the album version.

he does basically this same set at every "an unpredictable night" show. it's so cringy when he does hash pipe and puffs away on his vape pen smh.

finally listened to the Runddans album and holy shit, it really is like Wizard/Initiation-era Todd in the 21st century

really starting to think that Todd's insistence on turning every album into a one-man band record deprived us of a lot of great stuff

Love that record

also wanna point out that my first listen to it was on LP and it took me a full side and a half to realize that the album was not actually supposed to be "kinda vaporwavey" but in fact was supposed to be played at 45

I had an odd urge to hear to Ra today, a record I haven't played since maybe 1980, and lo and behold this thread pops up! I still have a soft spot for side one, especially "Magic Dragon Theatre," but man the second side is pretty much unlistenable to me.

There's not much middle ground with Todd, is there? I'd say about 85% of his stuff is pure manna to me, the other 15% (Bang On The Drum, the Gilbert & Sullivan covers, the various prog odysseys, etc.) I skip over as fast as I can.

I definitely respect the fact that he did prog his way. personally I think both "The Ikon" and "Singring" are pretty great. the latter is pretty gimmicky but I like how it lampshades the whole "the point of this is for all of us to get bitchin' solos" thing

Gahhhh I love the first two Utopia records

I adore "Freak Parade"

the lyrics on this are pretty bad but man you could've fooled me into thinking this was a 40 year old outtake

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dmUlUNh0zU

He sounds of reasonably good voice. Smart to put the vocals deeper into the mix. Not bad, TR.

I'm here waiting for the election to be called, listening to Todd Rundgren's Todd and feeling ready to cry. this album reminds me so much of my Dad. he's still alive by the way. but it reminds me of growing up with him. he used to play songs from this particular album on the piano all the time. I never knew what they were (as a kid, I assumed my Dad wrote them himself). many years later I find the album Todd and realize that I already know half of these songs well. particularly "Don't You Ever Learn?" which I LOVED, it was my favorite thing for him to play. gets me so emotional lately. "A Dream Goes On Forever"...what a fucking tune

I react that way in general to Rundgren's greatest songs; wish I could say the same of my dad, but he was a Chubby Checker guy.

Love the Todd album except for the synth stuff at the beginning of side 4. I even shot a video for An Elpee's Worth of Tunes in high school.

It's startling to realize he released this double album (his second in 3 years) and the hour-long Utopia debut all in 1974.

Just heard the Nazz version of 'Hello, It's Me' for the first time yesterday (didn't even know it existed until very recently). Quite different from the solo version but also great in its own way.

I've mentioned it elsewhere on the board but I sincerely can't get through 'Sometimes I Don't Know How to Feel' without starting to cry. Every damn time.

Frogs, I love reading your tales of your dad and his affinity for prog.

I would love to be in a crowded bar tonite, drunk, singing "Sons of 1984" at the top of my lungs with a bunch of strangers. That won't happen, obviously, because of the pandemic and because nobody outside this thread knows that song. But it's how I feel right now!

last time I saw my Dad when we got in the car he said "I gotta play this song for you...it's called Firth of Fifth" and I was like "Dad are you just finding out about this now?"

Todd has a few other songs from the mid-70s that fit the moment - Just One Victory and Freedom Fighters. His literal Trump song is Tin Foil Hat, from White Knight, with Donald Fagen singing.

Starting side 2 of A Wizard/A True Star with Sometimes I Don't Know What to Feel and ending it with Just One Victory is a steep upward emotional trajectory!

I always thought that in a just world, fans of victorious sports teams would sing "Just One Victory" after the final game, rather than (or maybe included with) "We Are The Champions."

when he played here (in Sheboygan!!!) they played the video for Tin Foil Hat during one of the costume changes and maaan did it make some people uncomfortable

the Utopia album Swing to the Right has some pretty political themes but honestly I forget that album exists sometimes. between his solo career and Utopia he made like 10 albums between 77 and 84

I've always assumed "Heavy Metal Kids" was a parody song, along the lines of "Earache My Eye." The opening riff is basically "Cat Scratch Fever", though I'm not sure if Todd's song came before or after Ted's. I think before?

Todd's song was three years before the Nugent song. Chuck Eddy mentioned the coincidence that Todd and Ted were the two musicians on the Nuggets compilation who actually went on to become stars instead of one-hit wonders.

The philosophy of Heavy Metal Kids, such as it is, always seemed to owe more to (proto-)punk than what was known as metal in 1974. It's interesting that Todd had connections to punk (producing New York Dolls, dating Patti Smith) at the same time that he was exploring prog and MOR ballads, and was at least friendly with the rock aristocracy (if not a member).

swing to the right is a p solid album, imo

he closed with “one world” when I saw him a few years ago (same tour as frogbs I think)

Did any Democrats take up "Just One Victory" that Rundgren wanted?

He recently said he does not want Republican fans and several years ago he said that every Republican is on some level a coward.

surely dems want more than one

I just came across Paul Myers blog, which posted a lot of material he used for his book on Rundgren. Great read, even if you're not a fan of Rundgren's own recordings. (I kind of am - there's probably a lot he's done that I don't like, but I only listen to what I do, and I like it a lot.)

Not sure where the Rundgren entries actually start, but here's the one of the New York Dolls:

https://pulmyears.wordpress.com/2010/09/15/wizard-wednesdays-new-york-dolls-1973/

that book is absolutely indispensable if you are a todd person… there is however a very peculiar flaw: Myers states at the outset that he is not going to get into his personal life, or possibly salacious material re: his relationships, exploits with groupies…and yet he does talk about his time with Bebe buell and how he raised Liv Tyler despite not having sired her… but he does not talk about his early life in Philadeplhia, anything about his parents or siblings or anything about the circumstances as such… his story begins when Todd gets in to the Beatles and Gilbert & Sullivan… its a huge demerit, insofar as one's family background does tend to be hugely influential on the course of the rest of one's life…I can only surmise that Todd didn't want to talk about this and made not doing so a condition of his participation with the book, which otherwise is staggering…

Todd's own memoirs, published since Myers' book came out, get into his family background. Todd's book has a very strange format - each verso page describes "the facts" around a particular subject, while the recto page facing it describes what he was thinking at the time, and then his later reflections on the events. It's a very bold move for an autobiography, but of course prevents it from having any kind of conventional literary flow. It ends with his 50th birthday and first marriage, after which he says his life became too conventional to warrant description.

a family friend was working on a power line in kawaii several years ago and Todd came out and asked him how it was going. I know, who cares, but the important part is that Todd was eating a chicken drumstick at the time.

That encounter didn't make it into his memoirs.

A few years ago, I came across Todd Rundgren's guest appearance on Daryl Hall's show - they filmed Todd's guest appearance at his home in Hawaii, and holy fucking hell did the view look amazing. I can't find a good copy of it - all the YouTube uploads are in crummy 360p and you really need it in clean HD to see how gorgeous his enormous "backyard" looks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlykZ8ZbUaY

This is a random-ass long shot, but does anyone know the origin of the sweater Todd wears on the cover of the Todd album? Looks like a cherry-print(?) cardigan(??). Would love to cop

a couple of months back i had a binge of watching interviews with todd and andy partridge about the making of 'skylarking', both sides still bickering about the other, it all just seemed to devolve into psychic warfare between the two parties, each trying to undermine the other in some way. i'm sure you all know the story. anyhow, at one point andy walked past the desk and todd said to him in a really snide voice: "where d'ya buy your jeans? ...russia?" and that phrase has been making me lol for weeks now i swear

LOL. Skylarking is easily my favorite Rundgren production. I love XTC and I know there was a lot of tension, but Rundgren was a big reason why that ended up being their best album IMHO.

Actually here's Dave Gregory's interview from that same blog, and he must keep a diary because his email responses to each question were amazingly detailed:

https://pulmyears.wordpress.com/2010/09/22/wizard-wednesdays-exclusive-skylarking-bonus-notes-with-xtcs-dave-gregory/

yeah even Andy admits Rundgren was instrumental to the album's success. I saw some interview about the album and remember coming away thinking that Todd was the element that really put it over the top. what's weird is that it doesn't sound like anything else Todd was doing at the time - in fact he was going all in on that shit digital sound that nearly ruined Big Express

Mike's brother--would definitely read that.

new single with The Roots. guess the next album is all collabs again (which is good!) and it's gonna be named Space Force, lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfjM5P2WnK4

his voice is still pretty good isn't it?

Has a funny minute in the Fanny documentary.

xpost Yeah he sounds good! Even more excited to be seeing him live in a few weeks now.

I just watched a deleted scene on the Sparks documentary dvd where Russell talks about how in the early 2000s he had to start going to the gym every day just to keep his voice strong and especially to bring his falsetto back. Wouldn't be surprised if Todd has a similar routine.

(There's also a deleted scene of Ron and Russell reuniting with Todd after 40+, which is kind of awkward but also pretty sweet.)

apropos of nothing I'd like to share this Nazz song about a pig born into a man's body who decides to become a police officer to beat people up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IdK-pE2r_A

learned a fun fact about Initiation - apparently when the album was recorded it was even longer, presumably because it was supposed to be a double, but there was a plastic shortage which forced him to try to get it all on one LP. to accomplish this he just sped up most of the tunes - the first 4 tracks and the entire second half. Apparently "A Treatise on Cosmic Fire" was originally 42 minutes and wound up getting sped up an entire semitone. I suppose that is why the album sounds so unnatural. I've heard the "Real Man" 7 inch has these tracks at the "correct" speed (the B-side is a short excerpt of "Treatise") but I don't have it so I can't say. Either way strange he never tried to "fix" it when the CDs came out. Maybe he just liked it better that way!

That is bizarre

Isn't each side of that one about 30 minutes? I figured the smaller/tighter groove caused the thin sound.

inventor of nightcore!

yeah that's true of several of his 70s albums - Wizard & the s/t Utopia one especially. I always suspected "Utopia Theme" and "The Ikon" were sped up on certain non-singing sections. Hard to prove because there isn't really any information out there, but I am guessing that even Todd knew better than to put out a 67-minute single LP.

He knew better, but that's the duration of Initiation as released!

right - what I'm speculating is that it was originally a 72-minute double LP, but someone at the label told him he had to cut it to a single due to the plastic shortage, so instead of cutting anything he just sped parts of it up until it fit

Where did you hear that? I just quickly AB’d a bunch of versions of Real Man (including live versions) the j Spotify and they’re all in the same key, maybe one or two of them are a bit sharp.

Interesting
Makes you wonder how often masters were slowed / sped up unbeknownst to the listener. Is there a thread ?
Zoe’s levee (slowed) and Remains (sped up) are the two I can think of quickly

From Wikipedia

At over sixty-seven minutes, Initiation is one of the longest commercially-released LPs due to a plastic shortage. In order to keep the album on one vinyl LP Rundgren had to limit and EQ the master so the bass response was rolled off to keep the grooves small enough to cut onto a single disc, he also had to speed up the first half of Side One (Real Man-Eastern Intrigue)and speed up the entirety of Side Two to eliminate 2-3 minutes from each side(5). The album's original inner sleeve included a note which stated: "Technical note: Due to the amount of music on this disc (over one hour), two points must be emphasized. Firstly, if your needle is worn or damaged, it will ruin the disc immediately. Secondly, if the sound does seem not loud enough on your system, try re-recording the music onto tape. By the way, thanks for buying the album."

What percentage would you need to speed something up to change the key?

Since double speed is up one octave, about 8% per semitone?

masters were slowed / sped up

The whole Layla album was originally sped up, according to the liner notes on the remixed version.

I dunno, I still kind of doubt it was sped up that much given that all the live versions are in the as-released key and his voice sounds the same (it’s not an easy song to sing). But at the same time I wouldn’t put it past Todd to teach his entire band to play something in, say, D# just because they could.

Makes you wonder how often masters were slowed / sped up unbeknownst to the listener. Is there a thread ?

Not that uncommon back in the day. Singles especially.

"Glory" on Television's "Adventure" is definitely sped up.

One of the most famous is Caroline No by The Beach Boys, which was sped up at Murry Wilson’s urging apparently to make Brian sound more youthful.

currently listening to No World Order again, you know what, I give him a ton of credit for doing this. for all the "70s rock star does tries to adopt a modern genre" albums this has got to be one of the strangest. and it was originally released on the CD-i! what a weirdo!!!

Listening to it on cassette at the time, I wanted it to be A Wizard, A True Star with raps, but I couldn't convince myself.

Lol

this live take on International Feel is kinda there I guess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFXGDy1cFiE

there are a number of clips on YouTube from that one-man tour. it's not quite Todd at his best but still you gotta respect him for doing it because there are so many ways it could go wrong. he's got a ton of audiovisual gear on stage and not all of it appears to work properly. he invites people up to play guitar and drums and more often than not they just suck at it. he's got all these props but also is always doing like 5 things at once. if nothing else it's a fun glimpse into what the future was supposed to look like...in 1994

anyway I think a lot of the reason the NWO album isn't very good has to do with the CD-i "interactive" technology, idk what exactly it could handle but he seems to be limited to pretty simple bass lines and is kind of forced to use the same tempo for everything. so a lot of his clever songwriting touches are out the window. that said I think the songs are actually okay. "Worldwide Epiphany" could've been something had he not had to produce it the way he did. and the rapping, while horrible, is at least funny enough to be somewhat excusable.

He's a better rapper than, uh, Ted Nugent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iefzSqxgVlI

(skip to 3:40)

this live take on International Feel is kinda there I guess

― frogbs, Wednesday, April 27, 2022 11:15 PM (yesterday)

That's pretty cool

Parallel Lines is up there in the pantheon of "songs you're embarrassed to admit you really love"

actually kinda realizing now that Nearly Human is basically his go at a Sting album - very serious (for Todd) singer/songwriter showcase, with an incredible stable of session musicians who bring a professional touch to everything. Hawking is like his "Why Must I Cry For You", just an emotional gutpunch you forgot he was capable of.

oh but Sting could never pull off something like I Love My Life. he'd definitely try, though

...and I don't see Todd trying so hard to be "atmospheric" (maybe Healing is the exception?); there's always something "surface-level" about his productions, while I think of Sting smothering his 80s records in hazy synth pads.

Yeah, I don’t hear a lick of Nothing Like the Sun or Soul Cages in Nearly Human, which was recorded live and is way more maximalist than the former.

Parallel Lines is up there in the pantheon of "songs you're embarrassed to admit you really love"

Neither song nor album made my list, but I enjoy both. Is the song embarrassing because of its emotional openness? I seem to recall from Todd's memoir that he wrote it around a real-life relationship situation that ended up afterwards in marriage; like "Another Satellite" on Skylarking, both songs written by men to women (whom they would later marry) about the impossibility of having a relationship.

very serious (for Todd) singer/songwriter showcase

Nearly Human was his first album in four years, first out of the Bearsville/Grossman organization since the Nazz, and first since Utopia disbanded; he was definitely trying to show Warner Bros his most commercial side, there wasn't any room for "Miracle at the Bazaar" or "Lockjaw".

first out of the Bearsville/Grossman organization since the Nazz

Actually a few of the latter-day Utopia albums were on another label.

actually was thinking more of Blue Turtles, particularly in the way they both kick off with a big boisterous jazz pop song. "Unloved Children" also sounds a lot like something he would've done with that Bring on the Night live band (isn't "Another Day" kind of similar?) I think Sting uses a maximalist approach on those first few albums as well. but yeah what sticks out is how seriously he takes this one, even on "normal" albums like Mink Hollow or his real heady spiritual trip ones like Healing & Liars he always finds room to goof around. maybe that's why the CD has the "Two Little Hitlers" cover on it.

Is the song embarrassing because of its emotional openness?

idk but there's a certain saccharine quality to a lot of Todd's work, like he bends the notes just so, and so sometimes when he does a real serious song it feels unnecessarily corny. or maybe it's those sparkly synths in it? its almost a bit vaporwavey.

“parallel lines” is good but I prefer “the waiting game”.. some really cool vocal harmonies on that one.

Nice quote from Todd here:

I was always fascinated with Weezer’s approach to things. They were, in some ways, founders of the whole emo thing.

would be hilarious if this new album was his supernatural and won him like 6 grammys

huh, that's actually a pretty interesting concept. its the sort of thing 70s Todd would've come up with.

My Todd-head pal sends me articles like this:

Rundgren is always trying to broaden his influences, seeking new music, consulting his children on what he should be listening to – but even then, it can be challenging. “It’s very hard to find artists who are sincerely musical nowadays, who haven’t simply leveraged their internet celebrity into a musical career,” he says. “The music is just mediocre.” He wonders whether people still form the same intimate attachment to songs as he did growing up. “Then, most of the music you got exposed to was the Top 40 on the radio,” he says. “Nowadays I open my newsreader and there’s 20 artists whose names sound like they’re internet passwords and you’ve never heard their music.”

assuming Lil Nas X he's talking about?

rolling twenty-something RYM/internet stuff like hyperpop, hypnagogic pop, hexD, vaporwave, dungeon synth, cloud rap, nightcore, black midi, future funk, dariacore, seapunk, blown out anime voices, br

And Justin Bieber.

I thought he meant, like, DJ Charlie Bit My Finger or something (not actual artists whose initial success happened to be online).

I'm listening to the album now. I'd never heard Down with This Ship in all of this time but somehow its the highlight so far (I'm on Someday)

These yung Internet kids can't create such sincerely musical works of art as Todd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHpOJ8rRE64

"Internet celebrity" could be any artist who didn't build their career on broadcast media, physical media & live shows. YouTube, tiktok, streaming, etc, all on the internet.

it's pretty disappointing that he sez shit like that, because for a good long while, he demonstrated an informed awareness, edging towards appreciation, for newer music… for a long time, he wasn't a moldy fig like Keith richards; he has no sentimentality for the big studio era of recording from 1966-2000 or whatever and is perfectly onboard with people recording on their laptops (which is what he has done for a very long time, and in the case of the records he has made in the last 30 years, they sound pretty bad); I remember him talking about T- Pain pretty approvingly, as if the guy who made A Cappella would be able to hang with artists creatively misusing auto-tune…

I think he is still that guy, but y'know he is 74 and allowed to be a crank once in a while. I mean the entire industry and the figures it cultivates are much much different from what they were in the 70's so I don't blame him for wondering exactly what the kids are doing these days. No doubt a guy like Todd, if he was starting today, would have a hard time making it in today's climate. But I am curious what exactly he's referring to there.

Yeah, I actually kind of appreciate that while he keeps pressing his kids for new musical ideas and trends he isn't just blindly accepting them. But at the same time, if that quote and clip tell us anything about Todd it's that if he's nothing if not consistently inconsistent.

Didn't we discuss what a pain he can be to deal with? Maybe on the POLL rollout? Some particular quote from a member of XTC comes to mind.

that would be Andy Partridge, who is also known as being a pain in the ass to work with. Todd does a lot of production work and afaik nobody else has really complained about him, though he does seem like the kind of guy who trusts his own gut too much. as Veronica pointed out above the last 30 years of one-man band albums he's done all sound pretty crappy. he uses a bunch of stock loops and cheap synth sounds which make the music sound like some random dude uploading songs to Soundcloud. its real unfortunate because his voice has held up really well, and his songwriting is still pretty good. If he just hooked up with younger musicians and/or producers who could actually make what he's trying to do sound good I think his later records would be held in much higher esteem. but he won't do that.

I was encouraged at the time when he hooked up with Lindstrom and the guy from Serena Manesch for Runsdans, it’s like… I’m not a big Lindstrom fan but at least he’s a fan and seems to “get” what makes Todd’s cosmic touch special..and he wasn’t some random crap EDM chump which I feel happens a lot when olds go for the electronic touch.

Did he and Dam Funk do something together recently or am I imagine things?

he meaning Todd, not Hans

Dam-Funk opened for him at some point and they have a collaboration on White Knight, which I thought was pretty good. unfortunately I think that and the Trent Reznor ones are the only tracks where the guests actually have a hand in the production. that said the album as a whole sounds better than his last few.

this album is really all over the place, some of it is vintage Todd (check out "I'm Leaving" with The Lemon Twigs), others you'd never suspect he had a thing to do with ("Espionage"). the one with Adrian Belew is interesting because it sounds a lot like it would be a Bowie outtake, and the two of them are actually doing a "Celebrating Bowie" tour right now. like a lot of Todd albums there's just no flow to it but I think it's probably more good than bad. the Rivers Cuomo track is awful though. also a bit disappointed that they didn't use this album cover, which showed up on the Toddstore:

https://i.imgur.com/UyATpZa.jpg

So I decided to do a little focus on one particular aspect of his life/work

https://theshfl.com/guide/todd-rundgren-producer

Ace finally put out a decent single-disc comp of his productions, but omitted Meat Loaf (probably licensing issues) and skipped over Remote Control for a track on the Tubes' markedly inferior Love Bomb LP, but otherwise covers most of his best work.

Nice, and appropriate -- yeah I'm not surprised they couldn't get a hold of anything from Bat

^^Which is a little weird because Rhino got "All Revved Up..." for their Todd production comp from the early '90s.

Different era, major label muscle, I can see it.

Re: complaining about Todd’s production work

Per their autobiography, Bad Religion did not enjoy working with him. They also thought his home studio in Hawaii was run down

there was some 90s band who essentially accused Todd of ruining the band. can't remember who they were though. I do think it's true that Todd's instincts were very good in the 70s and some of the 80s - he was apparently the only one who saw any potential in Sparks - but once music making turned more digital and meticulous I think he lost his touch. I mean just listen to his studio albums from the last 30 years.

xpost Yeah there was a Graffin quote from Paul Myers's book expressing said sentiments, but also adding that he found the experience worthwhile in the end and that he and Rundgren have been friends for a while now. I can buy that.

nice interview here

https://relix.com/articles/detail/todd-rundgren-on-his-space-force-bowies-space-oddity-the-mythology-of-vinyl-and-the-moral-imperative-of-music/

kinda funny for him to talk about inner groove distortion on vinyl here - I think if you have a good stylus you won't hear it much, but my 70s Todd records, which pile an insane amount of music on a single side, are still affected. so to me it's like Shaq going "yeah basketball is a great sport, but they should get rid of free throws..."

For the first two minutes, beautiful Todd soundalike from Stephen Stills' first Manassas album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCdDBCCmC2k

Someone was clearly paying attention.

(I like the last minute fine, but Stills stops being Todd and turns back into Stills.)

I get a lot out of the Manassas album, but it's telling that this song and "It Doesn't Matter" are the highlights and also the only two co-written and sung by Chris Hillman.

I got onto it when I watched this CSN&Y documentary a few weeks ago, where they spoke of it as a masterpiece--so I ordered it and Stills' first solo record. I've only played it once; I like it better than the solo LP is about all I can say so far. "Both of Us" is definitely my favourite. I've got to say it again: I can't believe how much it sounds like Rundgren, especially the very beginning (where I guess it's Hillman singing).

Yeah, Hillman sings the first verse, Stills the second, and they harmonize the rest.

that part in licorice pizza where you hear the todd rundgren radio ad is the closest i've come to experiencing asmr

— haulin’ boss crude (@bosscrood) December 15, 2022

I always think “Both of Us” is going to turn into “The Loner” — “time is a wasting…” is quite like “nothing can free him…”

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/01/02/todd-rundgren-renaissance-rocker

He took out a vape pen and drew on it. “As a matter of fact, I have a vanity line of cannabis coming out. It’s called Hello It’s Weed.”

https://i.ibb.co/NssGJTL/ezgif-1-78f6334692.jpg

legit

Lionel Ritchie announcement in 3, 2, 1,

What would Lionel Ritchie call his vanity line?

hello, is it weed that you’re looking for?

probably better name for a delivery service

LMAO, I'm sold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQkG8K9tbe0
#OneThread

Quite a few good Todd interview clips on Make Weird Music channel, which has a ton of prog content and recommendations for bands I've never heard of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRTDlnjVM1o

Well worth a look around the channel

“It was late…last night”

Were you feeling something wasn't quite right?

Something to Fall Back On is his best song imo. Could have been a great quasi-Motown stomper in any age.

Wolfman Jack has a classic-era Motown vibe as well.

I love the mid 80s “tough guy” production and performance of “want of a nail”

Something to Fall Back On is his best song imo. Could have been a great quasi-Motown stomper in any age.

Do you rate it so highly because of or in spite of the a cappella arrangement?

Mostly in spite - it would hold up incredibly well even if it had (for a 1985 analogy) I'm Your Man-type production as it's such a strong song. That said, the production still gives it crucial peripheral strangeness (e.g. the way the Witch Doctor-y 'do-do-do's sound so sampled and assembled, like someone gently going glissando on a keyboard, or the way the beat 'feels' like beatboxing but clearly is something more indeterminate).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaF4m4T8x6c

this was the first song my dad taught me to play on piano, it's always gonna be special to me. could never do the fast part at the end though!!

Written by request of Patti Smith, who wanted him to do a song about his Scandinavian background.

https://open.spotify.com/track/0tufiRu3Ij4sEaLvlqt9Bb?si=wU-t3E_5THS0BbmJWf9ShQ&context=spotify%3Aalbum%3A7pguPd8sT14AhOcbrnksHn

?

(21st c schizoid man cover)

Don't know why I let Healing sit in collection for so long before listening to it, I'm loving it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rcPhyVZL8w

found a copy of Faithful today, listening to it now and uhhh what is the point of Side 1? just an ego exercise? I mean I'm impressed. was Todd the first person to record cover songs designed to be indistinguishable from the original?

I've never bothered playing side 1 again, but side 2 has some pretty good songs.

wiki:

Rundgren explained the motivation of the first side as treating rock music like European classical music, where a piece is performed over and over again in essentially the same way.

Not one of his brighter ideas.

I don't think that's actually true of European classical music either though

But well ahead of the curve in some respects, considering the fairly recent trend of bands faithfully covering their own songs in order to circumvent copyright issues and garner a bit more streaming revenue.

well it would be if these bands were hiring Todd Rundgren to record identical covers of their songs

That happened all the time in the 70s anyway. Not by the likes of Todd Rundgren though, more Freddie & the Dreamers.

the yardbirds cover completely fucking rules come on

about as much as the original does yeah

I don't think that's actually true of European classical music either though

Correct. I get where he's coming from but his explanation is a grossly inaccurate oversimplification. I saw this firsthand last week when I was looking for a rendition of the Badinerie from Bach's orchestral suites that matched my memory of what I heard as a kid - Trevor Pinnock recorded two well-received renditions about 15 years apart, and that segment alone was markedly different, with the later one taken a much faster tempo.

*taken at

I've never seen Gus Van Sant's shot-by-shot remake of Psycho, but I'm wondering if it's the same kind of impulse.

the yardbirds cover does sound different, though! It sounds like heavy 70s rock, the guitars all have that gorgeous golden 70s Boston BOC distortion… the original is awesome too, it just sounds garagey and ramshackle and kinda messy

ok ... i think we all know what he meant about the difference between european classical and rock music. you don't have to put on your musicologist hat to understand

I admit that's the one cover where the original I don't know too well, you're right that one is a bit different

its still kind of a weird message, like I get the whole "this is Mozart to me" angle, a lot of people have said things like that about classic rock, but then showing you can replicate these incredibly revered studio tracks all by yourself...its kind of a weird message

mostly I think people give him shit for it because the second side is so good, if the first half had more songs of that quality I think this would be considered one of his best albums.

I've never seen Gus Van Sant's shot-by-shot remake of Psycho, but I'm wondering if it's the same kind of impulse.

Personally, I thought that was at best a misguided waste of time. But a friend who thinks it's a commendable film based his argument on the casting - something to do with sexuality where Van Sant now had Anne Heche in Marion's role rather than Anthony Perkins in Norman's role. It's been too long for me to correctly remember and repeat his entire argument, but he kind of engaged with it the way one might engage with a film being shown in a loop as part of an art installation - you didn't necessarily have to sit through the whole thing, just enough to pick up on the conceptual idea being put across. Anyway, if side 1 of Faithful had some conceptual idea of real value, I'm more than open to it, but I haven't heard Rundgren make a case for any that sounded compelling.

I recently read this little reappraisal, which I thought was interesting: https://www.pastemagazine.com/movies/gus-van-sant/psycho-remake-gus-van-sant-predicted-hollywood-ip

That reading works, but it's also referring to ideas that have been famously explored but other filmmakers at least 30 years before Van Sant made his movie. (It's also a pretty glaring omission for that reviewer not to acknowledge any of that.)

I’m sure you’re right, but what are you referring to specifically? Just curious (though I guess we could take this to a GVS thread…)

With the covers, personally I think growing up listening to Todd since a baby it was just like, “here’s uncle Todd playing the songs he likes”. Like a folk kind of thing more than classical.

It is fun to spot the seams, where he didn’t get the sounds right and what he did to compromise. Or, like for happenings where he was just like “fuck it, let’s so heavy and soaring on this one”. And it is a good collection of tunes. But yeah, not necessary I guess.

I love Todd biut not an essential record….also considering he was supposed to be an engineer his records do sound a bit lacklustre and I’m no audiophile

xxp Warhol is the first one that comes to mind - not just for his work addressing reproduction and pop culture, but even zeroing in on the actual differences between the two films bring to mind Warhol's films showing activities that would seem mundane and predictable. They may test an unsuspecting viewer's patience, but the audience can light up when even the smallest gesture breaks the familiarity of what's playing out (like a guy lighting a cigarette during a haircut).

And Godard has experimented with replication, and not just with films but with literary works - he's made films like Nouvelle Vague, Puissance de la parole and several others where every the script consists entirely of quotation, and it's not even supposed to be an adaptation - one of the boldest examples I can think of if you want to explore how replication can relate to creation.

*every line in the script

I love Todd biut not an essential record….also considering he was supposed to be an engineer his records do sound a bit lacklustre and I’m no audiophile

This is crazy to me. Side 2 rules. And i think my vinyl sounds finefine

I don't think any of his 70s records sound particularly good but they all have some magic moments, moments which make me go "how'd he do that?" he was the one guy really pushing the boundaries of how much music you could fit on one side of a record, which in turn I think is why he produces his records to be more treble-heavy. but unfortunately it does make some of his most ambitious stuff sound pretty bad in spots. the first Utopia LP is a good example of that. Faithful sounds pretty good though.

Anyway, if side 1 of Faithful had some conceptual idea of real value, I'm more than open to it, but I haven't heard Rundgren make a case for any that sounded compelling.

I mean if nothing else it's the only cover album I can think of where the goal is to sound as close to the original as possible (minus the thing mentioned upthread where artists re-record their own catalogue for more better royalties). I suppose that is kind of interesting. I guess that Weezer covers album comes pretty close but I think this is more because Weezer kinda suck as a band.

His albums sound great but no they’re not like… slick carpenters or arif mauldin or something. the sound the dude got in the 70s was extraordinary, like the compressed distorted drums on “international feel”, his freakin gorgeous piano sound, his phased Hendrix tributes, his production style had character and I don’t think it’s fair or relevant to point out that it doesn’t sound as good as Barry Manilow or something. Sorry for aggro, I like poster frogbs I just love Todd and get carried away

“Hello it’s me” is kind of a marvelous production, he wall-of-sounds it but everything still sounds light and crystalline

hah no worries, I mean it's the same complaint I have with a lot of weird 70s stuff where the lack of bass sometimes makes me feel like I have a head cold. the end of Side 2 of Wizard is a good example, like "I Don't Want to Tie You Down" sounds absolutely brilliant to me, like it's a song that seems to only take place in his imagination if that makes sense...all those unsteady synth effects against such a gorgeous ballad, it's really special. but then the next "Is It My Name?" just feels really compressed, almost like it was recorded in a garage or something. at first I wondered if this was just inner groove distortion but the CD sounds this way too. to some degree I think it's intentional but I wish it had some bass. Zen Archer is kind of the same.

"Shine" is so amazing, sounds very ahead of it's time too (am I wrong?)

I think so too, I can't think of any early 80s electronic tracks which use a rave up beat like that. but there's gotta be something.

always wondered how exactly the drums were done on that album, I kinda suspect Todd just built his own stuff which is why every drum pattern sounds so unique and odd

Healing is amazing all around, one of the best albums still readily available in the bargain bin and my favorite of his after Wizard (or maybe just my favorite).

But yeah it does sound ahead of its time by a few years

Was surprised to find a copy for two bucks a while back, but I got the reissue anyway because it was cheap and had the 7 inch, which I think is essential. Plus the clear/blue vinyl looks pretty.

This years RSD will have a reissue of Liars, which I think is his best album since. Pretty similar to Healing too.

this dude just announced a show this summer in my small town. a 450-seat theater that sounds great. should i go see him?

you should, though don't expect to hear any of the classics, when I saw him it was nearly all 21st Century stuff. who knows though he changes it up a lot so maybe he is touring the classics now

If he wanted to do Liars all the way through I'd be up for that show.

fuck, yes

I just realized he’s playing in early May in Boston. Just got tickets.

I watched a couple recent live videos of his within the last six months or so and I remember thinking that the vocals sounded pretty capital r ruff but hopefully he was having an off night…he also fell flat on his face at the end of one of the tracks which was just hard to see tbh. He did spring right back up though…

Vocally or physically? Yikes

I saw him about 5 or 6 years ago, he sounded great. Dude tours a lot though so idk how he sounds night to night

Yeah I saw him 6 years ago and he mostly played new stuff I didn’t recognize. He did a medley of hits, iirc and closed with “one world” (which fucking rocked). He also played “secret society” for some reason??

Also saw the live Wizard show he did in SF in 08 or so, completely brilliant and perfect, insane amount of costume changes despite no gaps in between songs, spectacular performance, the band nailed it (kasim, prairie, young Todd clone)

Only other time I saw him was on the Arena tour and I don’t remember him playing anything before 2000 besides… “number one lowest common denominator” or something? rocked but idk kinda boring tbh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro9g_ZZ88xk

This is the one I was thinking of…I just browsed some other stuff from 2023 where he sounded better though (I had to be sure) so I doubt this is the usual Todd experience.

its definitely not he never tripped over a speaker any of the times I saw him

#Runt4Prez

Was wondering why he was playing Sugar Land, but then looked it up and he was opening for Daryl Hall at The Smart Centre (Todd's second time playing the venue: he opened for Yes there in 2017).

Terrific looking setlist for that '23 show:

Real Man
Love of the Common Man
It Wouldn't Have Made Any Difference
We Gotta Get You a Woman
Buffalo Grass
I Saw the Light
Black Maria
Unloved Children
Hello It's Me (Nazz song)
Sometimes I Don't Know What to Feel
I'm So Proud (The Impressions cover)
Ooo Baby Baby (The Miracles cover)
I Want You (Marvin Gaye cover)
The Want of a Nail

Imagine being an old person in 1973 who dozed off during Carson and who suddenly woke up during this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGcqnb0LFTw

My favourite live clips from that moment are British glam bands on Top of the Pops, but that one's right up there too. He seems so aware of how ridiculous he looks--if CHiPS had done a glam episode, that's about what their costume department would have come up with--and delivers the song beautifully anyway.

well im an old person now but i saw this on the old grey whistle test when i was 17 and i thought it was a bit silly (and i was right)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgJRtI3CUdk

smash the glass guitar todd!

kinda wish Utopia's prog phase lasted a bit longer I mean "Communion with the Sun" is so fucking good

smash the glass guitar frogsbs!

going to see him tonight!

Folks: it was good

Did he do Weezer hash pipe?

no but he did the song he did with Mr. Weezer

anyway for those who are curious - vocally he was pretty good, a bit weak at first but I think he was just saving himself for the 2nd half where he did a lot more challenging stuff. not gonna spoil the setlist but he did a few absolute showstoppers which would immediately be followed by TR-i stuff, which I thought was hilarious. I mean hey, it worked, in fact I think all his post-Nearly Human material comes off way better live than on the record

This show is blowing my mind and possibly making me rethink a majority of my life choices.

To frogbs' point, I agree 100%. This was maybe one of the best shows I've seen and I was fully prepared for it to be a miss given Todd's reputation. The band, stage design were terrific (we were in the balcony so had a great view of it). I actually found him to be in tremendous voice for the duration -- tho I concur that it was most noticeable in the second half.

Also, frogbs, I actually have a theory about this show -- that the song they open with is a commentary on--possibly even a bit of a joke about--the whole subsequent setlist.

Not to derail the talk, but I was going to bump this thread anyway... I was listening to this We're An American Band (really good!) comp from Cherry Red last night and guess I've just never paid attention to the lyrics for "Is It My Name?" before now. Oof.

hah yeah I was excited for a minute that he might be doing a bunch of his mid 70s proggy stuff which would've been a trip, but in the end I'm glad the setlist focused on "newer" stuff, kinda affirms my theory that it's his production choices and not his songwriting that's declined over the decades. I remember thinking "Woman's World" was some amazing Utopia song I'd forgotten about, turns out it's from the album where he also tries to imitate Snoop Dogg. the whole thing was so good that when he actually started playing some of his old hits during the encore it felt like he was just showing off.

Just saw him last night as my wife really wanted to go and we got balcony seats from that Live Nation $25 rate. His voice mostly sounded pretty strong. As noted by others his current set consists of more "newer" songs and he left his hits for an encore medley that he seemed less into -- I Saw the Light / Can We Still Be Friends / Hello It's Me.

I saw online that he used to go from his song "Lost Horizon" into a Marvin Gaye medley, but last night he just stuck to "Lost Horizon." I kinda wish he was still more into soul.

During the middle of his set, a guy right in front of my wife screamed out between songs "play the songs we came to hear, not these." Rundgren ignored him and others began to cheer more loudly and someone else yelled "we love you Todd." The guy briefly left to get a beer or something, and came back and watched the rest of the show politely.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/todd-rundgren/2024/warner-theatre-washington-dc-5ba9e364.html

LOL, that's similar to what happened to me at my first Steely Dan show, and that was one of the class action lawsuit settlement shows that Ticketmaster/Live Nation ponied up for (i.e. "free" but IIRC you still had to pay some fees). I get the feeling free shows or bargain deals can bring out more demanding and less adoring fans - they just want the radio hits.

(Assuming that guy in front of you also did the $25 deal.)

I am thinking you’re right. Although I guess there are still people who go to Bob Dylan shows thinking they will get hits in the arrangements they know, and Dylan doesn’t care to deliver that .

last time I saw him it was 6 years ago in my hometown, which was kind of nuts...I live in a city of 50k and Todd was playing like 3 miles away from me. I don't think there were a whole lot of true Toddheads in the crowd, outside of a bunch in the front rows. bumped into a lot of people I knew there too, guessing most of them didn't know much about Todd outside of a few songs. I mean for my city this was sort of an event. you could definitely sense a restlessness in the crowd as not only was he not playing the hits he wasnt playing songs that sounded much like them either, instead there were a bunch of songs from Global which ain't exactly the style people know him for (its not one of his better albums either). totally different vibe at this show I thought. I mean "Buffalo Grass" got a big response so I'm guessing these people had actually kept up.

I'm not usually a fan of shouting people down, but people who complain about shit like that deserve it probably.

I was prepared for (something?) anything at this show -- blooze, New Cars, him playing a Casio keyboard solo on stage wearing a diaper. I think most of Todd's longtime fans know he just does what he wants (or needs to in order to make a buck). And as a longtime (but not LONG longtime) fan, I appreciated the extent to which his audience for this tour was like that. I actually didn't see anyone in the balcony leave until around the encore actually. They knew the score.

As for it being "newer" stuff, I mean ... I guess it was. But I think it was more stuff from records nobody but completists bought (hence opening with "I Think You Know") -- and I was kind of stunned how committed to it he was to the concept, as I googled lyrics to most songs to figure out what they were. Normally it would bug me being so unfamiliar with the setlist. But in this case, the songs were so universally strong and their presentation so entertaining that I enjoyed all of it.

Also: he played like four songs from Liars--p much my favorites--and they all ruled. Including one of the best soul ones.

I noticed he seemed to favor Liars, whereas most albums (including his newest one!) he was only doing one song apiece. I wonder if that's because of the RSD reissue or if he just likes that album a lot

"God Said" was such a showstopper both times I've seen him now, was pretty cool finally hearing the album and realizing "oh shit it's that song". you really do have to hear it live though.

What a great song that is, hits home more and more every time I hear it.

God Said was #9 on my Todd ballot – #7 was Afterlife (which he also played) but that post-ZTT bass thump of the former gets me right in the feels as well.

Liars is also (gah) twenty years old.

… which might explain why he played so much of it.

Shamefully I haven’t really listened to Liars much, but I do remember that it was perceived a “return to form” after all the rap/electronica stuff/industrial songs about ISPs (even though it opens with what i recall to be a very trance-y song with “truth”, although maybe it has more in common with “shine” from healing or something)

"Truth" is like a Paul Oakenfold track with Daryl Hall singing. I love it but I know it freaked a lot of people out when they heard it. Including, I believe, ILM-er Gerald McBoingBoing when I recommended Liars to him a few weeks ago.

I do agree it's very much like "Shine", it rules despite having that "I dunno if you should be doing this" feel to it. first time I saw him I think he opened with that song and I was pretty floored by it, kinda hoped the rest of his set would be like that but it was not

Liars is probably his best since either Healing or Nearly Human, actually his first real solo album in like a decade, so maybe he just had a lot of good stuff stockpiled up. song for song it's very strong though probably too long as a whole. don't think I'd cut anything but some of the songs could stand to be a little shorter.

FWIW "I Hate My Frickin' ISP" is actually a pretty solid tune

Hah it is, he actually did a damn good hard rock version of it when I saw him on the “Arena” tour

Marcello Carlin wrote very eloquently about Liars at the time, which is what piqued my interest though I would have discovered it eventually. "Future" is just gorgeous, I wish TR would have made an entire ambient drum 'n bass LP while he was on that roll. "Soul Brother", which I think was the single, is the only track I am tempted to skip over.

More about "Shine": his singing in the first segment is so beautiful, one of those rare times that makes me wish I could sing!

Anyone heard this japanese tribute album? It has Yukihiro Takahashi, Dip In The Pool and a Moonriders guy
https://www.discogs.com/release/11183102-Various-Todd-A-True-Star

I really want to hear that. it’s on a discogs list I made of stuff I can’t find anywhere on the net.

oh shit i didn't know about this one... is this adjacent to those "rabid chords" and "smiling pets" comps from around the same time?

came up immediately on slsk lol, i'm listening now

well this is the most fucking charming thing i've heard this year

that's a joke and also it's been three months since i've heard something this charming

it's shibuya-kei as all hell, if you've heard _smiling pets_ or _rabid chords_ or either of the _fine time: a tribute to new wave_ comps, it's about what you'd expect. some very different takes, some takes that replicate the studio version down to the false starts, some in english, some in japanese

I got a bone to pick with this man, as you may know there's an RSD reissue of Initiation on 2xLP, which is how it was originally intended - the album was originally over 70 minutes long, but due to the vinyl shortage of the mid 70s he was pressured to get it on one. to accomplish that he basically sped up everything by 5-7% outside of a few songs on Side A. its why the album has always given me a slightly queasy feeling. now I didn't get a copy (my local store somehow sold all 4 they ordered by 8 AM) but from what I'm hearing it's the same sped up mix as the original?? why not release it the way it was intended?

He called me the thing you can never call a woman

???

The one that rhymes with your favorite Todd Rundgren album...

The Hermit of Mink Hollow?

i'm listening to initiation downloaded from ssk, when did he remove the post-chorus jesus-moses-mohammed chanting?? and yet somehow saying "a dash of the old kung fu" in a funny voice and including "voodoo" among a list of "eastern" "mystical" traditions is okay?

wait, it's back on the third go around but there's no reverb. wtf. am i just misremembering shit?