2007 Idolator Pop Critics Poll site is up

I wanted to read the poll but got distracted by this

http://m1.2mdn.net/viewad/1289736/1-lilo_300x250fixed.jpg

In 2005 the Voice Pazz and Jop poll was based on 795 ballots, In 2006 the 1st Idolator Jackin Pop poll was based on 503 ballots, Pazz & Jop was based on 494 ballots, and this year Idolator's 2nd poll was based on 454 ballots. Are we talking voter burnout with the decreased numbers?

that's such a funny pic!!!

nice job on those artist renditions. James Murphy, mmmmm.

mix cd thing is a great idea

Burnout? Maybe. It was a honor to vote, but I wasn't overly enthused about it.

James Murphy, mmmmm.

-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 15 January 2008 21:1

The 2007 Idolator Pop Critics Poll site is up. A-huh-huh-huh-HUH.

big hoos i voted you artist of the year

they don't know

This is excellent. Kala is number 2, "Atlas" is number 6, "Lip Gloss" was 13!!!

guys this music poll is really fucking interesting.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/47/2008/01/thumb300x_radiohead.jpglol

how could it not be interesting -- 3/4ths of ILM voted!

134 Studio - West Coast 58 6
141 Studio - Yearbook 1 55 5

;_;

The style that those pictures are done in makes me irrationally angry. I think it maybe reminds me of "The Believer" or something similar that I just cannot get down with.

I'm the only person who voted for Metro Area's "Read My Mind"?

mostly i'm just bummed that - somehow - my votes weren't counted. ah well.

Why the fuck is everyone on "All My Friends"'s dick? Is it a coke thing?

It's a Steve Reich thing. I voted for Sufjan in 2005, too.

Why the fuck is everyone on "All My Friends"'s dick? Is it a coke thing?

-- HI DERE, Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:33 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

^^^ 8080

def a coke thing

at least a handful of people voted for Sightings! that feels like a good thing.

that's why 'all my friends' has been #1 on the charts in colombia for 9 straight months

That Sightings album was very good. It was in the running for me.

FRIEND!

if somehow my P&J votes got lost too, the cosmos has spoken to me. but what's it saying, huh?!?

It's a Steve Reich thing.

So... definitely coke. Gotcha.

i just watched/listened to all my friends for the first time...it kind of reminds me of the killers's first song off sam's town with a heroes by bowie jones. pretty good.

i guess maybe a dude's turning 40 angst resonates with a bunch of dude's turning 30 angst??

Why the fuck is everyone on "All My Friends"'s dick? Is it a coke thing?

It's a mystery to me...but I've entertained that theory at one time or another.

yeah i heard that song once and my reaction was mostly "wtf i thought this band was supposed to be dance music, this sounds like the strokes" (xpost)

somehow i totally avoided hearing this song until just this second (i'm watching/listening on youtube). it's a good song. what i've heard from LCD hasn't interested me very much, but this is a good song. it kind of sounds like a new order song, doesn't it?

the first three minutes of the video are atrocious, though, unbearable.

is there a better way to browse the individual ballots than going page after page? there's no way i'm going to make it past the D's otherwise.

(ballot clearinghouse post will be up soon)

(ps thanks everyone)

I'm working on a full link-list of ballots right now

haha xpost

haha mindmeld!!!

cool! the individual ballots are usually my favorite part about year-end lists.

I don't think my efforts (or Matos's) to get more specialist music critics to contribute to the poll paid off too well. Michelangelo, thanks for your eforts and for dealing with my pestering Tim Finney's comment from that critics poll 2007 thread seems apt-

I think a lot of "specialist" music crits just don't feel like they're part of some global conversation about the state of popular music each year, so would not see the purpose of contributing to Metacritic or J&P etc.

It's not necessarily a question of alienation or disenfranchisement, though that can be involved too.

It's a curiosity of rock critics that they routinely forget their own genre-focused context and assume they are speaking for and about music at large.

The "positive" flipside is that rock crit polls are probably more diverse than, say, dance crit polls, even if it only serves to reinforce a certain vein of token-eclecticism as being "the state of music today".

-- Tim F, Monday, December 17, 2007 10:16 PM (4 weeks ago) Bookmark Link

that should read: efforts and for dealing with my pestering.

"All My Friends" is okay. I don't get the rapturous response to it.

aw, c'mon, you guys are specialists, you just specialize in being corny indie fux0rs

OTM

(about "us", that is)

"All My Indie Fuxors."

"All My Fucking Annoying Piano"

does he sing "like a sales force into the night???"

That's pretty cool imagery actually. Were they given lances and shields?

Great tune, happy to see it and the album do so well.

Ann Powers from the LA Times voted, but none of the NY Times critics voted (I guess the NY Times doesn't allow them to vote). If the NY Times critics had voted K. Sanneh could have given rapper Turf Talk a 3rd vote in the album list!

Ben Sisario voted

wow 'Shock Value' really not popular

Jess' LCD Soundsystem essay's one of the best I've read, and I thought I'd never want to read another.

What percentage of the voters are American? 97%? 98%?

we are North American scum.

sub-head: "the unbearable whiteness of being a pop critic"

is the demo info gonna be posted or did i miss that?

Wow, did Bill Holdship, onetime Creem and Musician magazine contributor, and current music editor at the Detroit Music Times really just vote for 2 albums, Springsteen and Winehouse, and nothing else (no other albums, tracks, reissues, etc.)

how similar are the top 100 of Idolator's albums and
stefan's 2007 albums consensus stats at January 2nd: Acclaimed Music Forum: based on 166 end of year lists

100 199 STUDIO ´WEST COAST/YEARBOOK 1´ --
98 202 SHOUT OUT LOUDS ´OUR ILL WILLS´ --
98 202 DAN DEACON ´SPIDERMAN OF THE RINGS´
97 204 AKRON/FAMILY ´LOVE IS SIMPLE´ ++
96 168 PATTY GRIFFIN ´CHILDREN RUNNING THROUGH´

95 213 ELLIOTT SMITH ´NEW MOON´ --
94 215 STARS ´IN OUR BEDROOM AFTER THE WAR´
93 216 NO AGE ´WEIRDO RIPPERS´ ++
93 216 LOW ´DRUMS AND GUNS´ ++
90 217 RICHARD HAWLEY ´LADY´S BRIDGE´

90 217 ROISIN MURPHY ´OVERPOWERED´ --
88 218 VON SÜDENFED ´TROMATIC REFLEXXIONS´ ++
88 218 LIL WAYNE ´DA DROUGHT 3´ --
85 222 NEIL YOUNG ´CHROME HEARTS II´
85 222 JESU ´CONQUEROR´

85 222 TED LEO & PHARMACISTS ´LIVING WITH...´ ++
84 223 AGAINST ME! ´NEW WAVE´ --
83 225 DIRTY PROJECTORS ´RISE ABOVE´ ++
82 229 DIGITALISM ÍDEALISM´ NE
81 233 PATRICK WATSON ´CLOSE TO PARADISE´

80 238 NINE INCH NAILS ´YEAR ZERO´
79 245 COMMON ´FINDING FOREVER´ ++
78 249 FUTURE OF THE LEFT ´CURSES´ ++
77 251 MATTHEW DEAR ´ASA BREED´ ++
76 253 BLACK LIPS ´GOOD BAD NOT EVIL´

75 254 DIZZEE RASCAL ´MATHS AND ENGLISH´
74 256 JOSH RITTER ´THE HISTORICAL CONQUESTS...´ ++
73 261 A PLACE TO BURY STRANGERS ´A PLACE TO...´
72 263 MAVIS STAPLES ´WE´LL NEVER TURN BACK´
71 268 THE BESNARD LAKES ´...ARE THE DARK HORSE´

70 275 DEVENDRA BANHART ´SMOKEY ROLLS DOWN...´
69 276 SUNSET RUBDOWN ´RANDOM SPIRIT LOVER´ ++
68 281 SIMIAN MOBILE DISCO ´ATTACK DECAY´
67 282 MARK RONSON ´VERSION´
66 288 DEERHOOF ´FRIEND OPPORTUNITY´

65 302 LIARS ´LIARS´
64 308 TOCOTRONIC ´KAPITULATION´
63 309 BABYSHAMBLES ´SHOTTER´S NATION´
62 318 STARS OF THE LID ´AND THEIR REFINEMENT...´ ++
61 324 FOO FIGHTERS ´ECHOES,SILENCE,PATIENCE&GRACE´

60 336 MIRANDA LAMBERT ´CRAZY EX-GIRLFRIEND´
59 345 JAY-Z ´AMERICAN GANGSTER´
58 346 DINOSAUR JR. ´BEYOND´
57 352 EL-P ´I´LL SLEEP WHEN YOU ARE DEAD´ ++
56 376 MAXIMO PARK ´OUR EARTHLY PLEASURES´

55 388 EDITORS ´AN END HAS A START´
54 404 THE TWILIGHT SAD ´FOURTEEN AUTUMNS...´
53 405 TINARIWEN ´AMAN IMAN : WATER IS LIFE´
52 407 JAMIE T ´PANIC PREVENTION´
51 412 RYAN ADAMS ´EASY TIGER´

50 426 QUEENS OF THE STONE AGE ´ERA VULGARIS´
49 455 MENOMENA ´FRIEND OR FOE´
48 473 DEERHUNTER ´CRYPTOGRAMS´
47 484 !!! ´MYTH TAKES´
46 492 THE NEW PORNOGRAPHERS ´CHALLENGERS´

45 494 BJÖRK ´VOLTA´
44 496 PATRICK WOLF ´THE MAGIC POSITION´
43 532 ANDREW BIRD ´ARMCHAIR APOCRYPHA´
42 536 RUFUS WAINWRIGHT ´REALEASE THE STARS´
41 553 RILO KILEY ´UNDER THE BLACKLIGHT´

40 557 LES SAVY FAV ´LET´S STAY FRIENDS´
39 564 CARIBOU ´ANDORRA´
38 625 BLOC PARTY ´A WEEKEND IN THE CITY´
37 663 BLONDE REDHEAD ´23´
36 676 ROBERT WYATT ´COMICOPERA´

35 715 THE FIELD ´FROM HERE WE GO SUBLIME´
34 719 INTERPOL ´OUR LOVE TO ADMIRE´
33 738 GRINDERMAN ´GRINDERMAN´
32 750 BRIGHT EYES ´CASSADAGA´
31 770 BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN ´MAGIC´

30 791 MODEST MOUSE ´WE WERE DEAD BEFORE THE SHIP...´
29 800 BAND OF HORSES ´CEASE TO BEGIN´
28 807 BEIRUT ´THE FLYING CLUB CUP´
27 903 ROBERT PLANT/ALISON KRAUSS ´RAISING SAND´
26 914 OKKERVIL RIVER ´THE STAGE NAMES´

24 917 KLAXONS ´MYTHS OF THE NEAR FUTURE´
24 917 THE GOOD,THE BAD & THE QUEEN ´THEE GOOD...´
23 937 JENS LEKMAN ´NIGHT FALLSOVER KORTEDALA´
22 982 ARCTIC MONKEYS ´FAVOURITE WORST NIGHTMARE´
21 1004 KINGS OF LEON ´BCAUSE OF THE TIMES´

20 1040 IRON AND WINE ´THE SHEPHERD´S DOG´
19 1051 KANYE WEST ´GRADUATION´
18 1129 OF MONTREAL ´HISSING FAUNA...´
17 1160 THE SHINS ´WINCING THE NIGHT AWAY´
16 1239 P.J. HARVEY ´WHITE CHALK´

15 1297 THE WHITE STRIPES ´ICKY THUMP´
14 1307 ANIMAL COLLECTIVE ´STRAWBERRY JAM´
13 1342 JUSTICE ´CROSS´
12 1386 BURIAL ´UNTRUE´
11 1417 WILCO ´SKY BLUE SKY´

10 1476 AMY WINEHOUSE ´BACK TO BLACK´
9 1580 SPOON ´GA GA GA GA GA´
8 1747 FEIST ´THE REMINDER´
7 1867 BATTLES ´MIRRORED´
6 2045 THE NATIONAL ´BOXER´

5 2085 PANDA BEAR ´PERSON PITCH´
4 2420 M.I.A. ´KALA´
3 3048 LCD SOUNDSYSTEM ´SOUND OF SILVER´
2 3203 THE ARCADE FIRE ´NEON BIBLE´
1 3310 RADIOHEAD ´IN RAINBOWS´

NE INDICATES NEW ENTRY
-- INDICATES BIGGEST LOSERS
++ INDICATES BIGGEST CLIMBERS

"The profile of a typical American JP voter is this:
Over thirty, white, male, middle class"

breaking_news.jpg

so born before December 1977

Matos [born in 1975] cast as Generation X's Christgau

Michaelangelort Matosgau

Matosgau - classic !

Mgau.

Pleasantly surprised to see Miranda Lambert do so well. Also ATTENTION PEOPLE COMPILING THE ILX POLL please combine votes for Yearbook One and West Coast okthxbye.

i know its weak to get mad at indie fuxx critics results but ugk at 29 is hella lame

;_; a river of tears

idk deej i think it's pretty cool tbh. i mean it did beat out shit like justice, deerhunter, shins, new pornos, band of horses, modest mouse etc.

the fact that it got beat out by da drought 3 isn't at all surprising but a little more distressing i think

454 voters and number 52 Yeasayer could only manage 16 voters.

is the methodology for this poll fundamentally flawed? only 10 selections for albums to scope a year?

Idolator Top 100 Albums [full results list over 1000 albums]

1 LCD Soundsystem - Sound of Silver 1876 169
2 M.I.A. - Kala 1550 141
3 Radiohead - In Rainbows 1327 137
4 Arcade Fire - Neon Bible 847 77
5 Amy Winehouse - Back To Black 821 77 45 points (4 votes) from 2006
6 Spoon - Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga 755 65
7 The National - Boxer 724 65
8 Kanye West - Graduation 702 67
9 Panda Bear - Person Pitch 585 56
10 Of Montreal - Hissing Fauna, Are You the Destroyer? 536 49
11 Battles - Mirrored 524 51
12 Miranda Lambert - Crazy Ex-Girlfriend 498 45
13 Lily Allen - Alright, Still 496 50 291 points (30 votes) from 2006
14 Feist - The Reminder 480 48
15 Burial - Untrue 440 44
16 The White Stripes - Icky Thump 413 41
17 Jens Lekman - Night Falls Over Kortedala 402 39
18 Animal Collective - Strawberry Jam 327 29
19 Robert Plant and Alison Krauss - Raising Sand 326 32
20 Wilco - Sky Blue Sky 323 32
21 Against Me! - New Wave 321 30
22 Okkervil River - The Stage Names 305 30
23 Jay-Z - American Gangster 278 28
24 The Field - From Here We Go Sublime 275 28
25 Bruce Springsteen - Magic 273 24
26 Lil Wayne - Da Drought 3 271 27
27 PJ Harvey - White Chalk 261 27
28 Andrew Bird - Armchair Apocrypha 232 23
29 UGK - Underground Kingz 230 22
30 Tinariwen - Aman Iman: Water Is Life 227 25
31 Justice - Cross 226 22
32 Deerhunter - Cryptograms 214 20 24 points (2 votes) for vinyl edition containing Fluorescent Grey EP
33 Britney Spears - Blackout 213 19
34 Iron & Wine - The Shepherd's Dog 212 21
35 Grinderman - Grinderman 195 18
36 Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings - 100 Days, 100 Nights 190 18
37 The Good The Bad & The Queen - The Good The Bad & The Queen 185 19
38 Mavis Staples - We'll Never Turn Back 184 17
39 Gogol Bordello - Super Taranta! 183 17
40 Beirut - The Flying Cup Club 179 17
41 Tegan & Sara - The Con 177 18
42 Low - Drums and Guns 175 18
43 The New Pornographers - Challengers 172 17
44 Les Savy Fav - Let's Stay Friends 164 18
45 Bettye LaVette - Scene of the Crime 163 17
46 Rilo Kiley - Under the Blacklight 162 17
46 The Shins - Wincing The Night Away 162 17
48 Amerie - Because I Love It 162 15
49 Band of Horses - Cease to Begin 155 15
50 Modest Mouse - We Were Dead Before the Ship Even Sank 152 15
51 Electrelane - No Shouts No Calls 150 16
52 Yeasayer - All Hour Cymbals 144 16
53 No Age - Weirdo Rippers 142 14
54 Von Sudenfeld - Tromatic Reflexxions 140 14
55 Lucinda Williams - West 140 13
56 Menomena - Friend and Foe 139 14
57 Bright Eyes - Cassadega 135 14
58 Dirty Projectors - Rise Above 134 14
59 Caribou - Andorra 132 14
59 Patty Griffin - Children Running Through 132 14
61 Arctic Monkeys - Favourite Worst Nightmare 128 13
62 Parts and Labor - Mapmaker 127 13
63 Robert Wyatt - Comicopera 125 12
64 El-P - I'll Sleep When You're Dead 124 12
65 Blonde Redhead - 23 123 14
66 Brother Ali - The Undisputed Truth 122 12
67 Pipettes - We Are the Pipettes 120 12 70 points (7 votes) from 2006
68 Jesu - Conquerer 117 12
69 Ghostface Killah - The Big Doe Rehab 116 12
70 Fall Out Boy - Infinity On High 116 11
71 Explosions In the Sky - All of a Sudden I Miss Everyone 115 11
72 Roisin Murphy - Overpowered 112 12
73 Wu-Tang Clan - 8 Diagrams 112 11
74 St. Vincent - Marry Me 111 11
75 Ted Leo and the Pharmacists - Living with the Living 108 11
76 Queens of the Stone Age - Era Vulgaris 106 12
77 Marnie Stern - In Advance of the Broken Arm 101 11
78 Aly + AJ - Insomniatic 101 10
79 Ricardo Villalobos - Fabric 36 100 12
80 v/a - Hyphy Hitz 100 10
81 Black Lips - Good Bad Not Evil 98 10
82 Stars Of The Lid - And The Refinement Of Their Decline 97 11
83 Prodigy - Return of the Mac 96 10
84 The Besnard Lakes - The Besnard Lakes are the Dark Horse 12 95 10
85 Nick Lowe - At My Age 94 10
86 Bloc Party - A Weekend In The City 94 9
87 v/a - I'm Not There OST 93 8
88 Josh Ritter - The Historical Conquests of Josh Ritter 90 9
89 Liars - Liars 88 10
90 Fountains of Wayne - Traffic and Weather 87 10
91 Phosphorescent - Pride 87 8
91 Sloan - Never Hear the End of It 87 8
91 The Apples in Stereo - New Magnetic Wonder 87 8
94 Rihanna - Good Girl Gone Bad 85 9
95 Sally Shapiro - Disco Romance 84 9
96 Elliott Smith - New Moon 82 11 25 points (5 votes) for Reissues
97 John Fogerty - Revival 82 8
98 Deerhoof - Friend Opportunity 80 8
98 Paul McCartney - Memory Almost Full 80 8
100 Neil Young - Chrome Dreams II 78 8 10 points (2 votes) for Reissues
100 Thurston Moore - Trees Outside the Academy 78 8

thank god the democratic primaries are about to start so i can root for a winner!!!!!!!!!

:-/

Still always see "Besnard Lakes" as "Barenaked Ladies" when I skim lists.

some ballots worth spending some time with:

1. http://pop.idolator.com/341194/ballot-andy-kellman

oh snap djmartian taking issue with polling methodology

rev wrote a good essay about 2007 reggaeton releases

http://pop.idolator.com/343644/ballot-rodney-j-greene

I was led to believe Hollywood Recordings were meh? xp to deej

revs essay looks good, i'll check it out.
im surprised at no mention of "Sexy Movimiento" tho, that song is huuuge in my neighborhood right now

2. ethan's reissues section in particular

sorry that should be 3.

too much trouble to get to anyone after the letter 'e' right now

sorry tim f :(

"Reckoner" > "Nude"???? "Nude" = "Chocolate Rain"????

the masses have spoken

i can finally get some sleep now!!

The 1 votes in the tracks section cuts off at "R". No one can see my unique vote for Salem al-Fakir's "Dream Girl". ;_;

lol @ vote for "Kanye West's Venetian blind sunglasses"

Still always see "Besnard Lakes" as "Barenaked Ladies" when I skim lists.

OKKERVIL RIVER = ACKERBILK RIVER

streetwize by j-rock is really sweet

revs essay looks good, i'll check it out.
im surprised at no mention of "Sexy Movimiento" tho, that song is huuuge in my neighborhood right now

-- deej, Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:17 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

It didn't do much for me at first, but it's grown on me some. I still have my reservations.

rhythmically i love it. reggaeton-hip-house?

maybe im remembering it wrong
anyway everyone at the party i was at last weekend was going nutso for it

wish that Roisin Murphy album had charted higher.

rhythmically i love it. reggaeton-hip-house?

-- deej, Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:53 PM (51 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

Yeah, there have been a couple other recent singles in the same vein. I've talked about the trend toward 4-to-the floor in reggaeton a couple other places. They've all been alright, but none of them have really astounded me.

thanks for the cut-off-at-R catch, Rodney; I've fixed it, should be live any second now.

No Lambert in your top albums, Matos? I thought you were all over her.

Actually I didn't submit a ballot deej - I was distracted by other stuff at the time it was due.

i did submit a mix-cd with commentary though.

I liked the Lambert album but didn't play it enough to feel comfortable listing it. (it's one of the couple-dozen albums of this type I mention in the essay.)

Ah yes, RIP Freeway, Daft Punk, Voltio & Styles P.

(probably among others)

"all of my friends" is okay, i like the steve reich angle, but there are at least 3 or 4 other tunes on that record i like more.

i liked matos' essay.

i'm glad the amerie album is on there, and pretty high for not being released and all.

hey hold on, who voted for the Hot 8 album????

I voted for Amerie and wish it was damn higher.

Ditto.

I don't know why, but the Tracks post wouldn't allow me to post the entire list. (I'm guessing it was a character limit.) So I broke it in two: http://pop.idolator.com/318997/idolator-pop-07-tracks-part-one is everything that got two or more votes, http://pop.idolator.com/345306/idolator-pop-07-tracks-part-two lists one-vote-only.

485 Shop Boyz - Party Like A Rock Star 1

;_;

apparently dan gibson voted for the h0t 8 brass band. who is dan gibson?

also: the cupid shuffle got robbed.

"Cupid Shuffle" is one of the 50 or so songs I should have voted for, but for one reason or another, didn't.

The reason, I think, is that 50 > 10.

i wish i would have voted for "my drink n my 2 step"

i was the only jason fox vote. i guess somebody had to be.

I voted for two albums in the top ten and I think six or seven albums that no one else voted for.

also, the conglomerated ballots:
http://pop.idolator.com/345248/ballots-a+e
http://pop.idolator.com/345286/ballots-f+l
http://pop.idolator.com/345298/ballots-m+r
http://pop.idolator.com/345303/ballots-s+z

x-post---There's a Dan Gibson who posts for Idolator. The Hot 8 cd was apparently reissued this year.

I had one unique album and one unique track.

7 people voted for the Bow Wow version of "I'm a Flirt"? Surely that's a mistake.

I'm guessing it's just people who didn't specify the remix, but would have meant it anyway.

Cosign compliments for Matos and Jess's essays.

Also Frank's comments on Britney vs Aly & AJ are great.

Also Alfred on M.I.A vs Robert Wyatt.

Great commentary from Ned generally (not because he paraphrases me) - Ned I think every time you tackle this issue of exhaustion with the music rat race you get better and more eloquent.

Beginnings of a list of people I would have liked commentary from: Geeta (only albums?); Glenn McDonald (almost all metal? no Tori?); Tobias Rapp (intriguing list - I'm always afraid to buy Tocotronic albums though).

Nice to see Tom E take the time to specifically big up Gudrun Gut's I Put A Record On - I love this record too.

yeah that bow wow thing raised my eyebrow a bit...

<I>I'm guessing it's just people who didn't specify the remix, but would have meant it anyway.</I>

That's right. I fixed it.

Speaking of Glenn McD, hope you are up for statistical analysis again this year.

Ned I think every time you tackle this issue of exhaustion with the music rat race you get better and more eloquent.

Wow, too kind -- thanks! :-) I suppose it's a continuing theme, isn't it?

(And the Gudrun Gut is a winner indeed.)

The first post of this thread should rightfully read: "Go nuts, go apeshit." I just needed to point that out.

Noted for next year.

plz to photoshop ned wearing "bape shit"

the Grammys are coming February 10th and LCD Soundsystem are even nominated in one category. Did they get any commercial radio airplay (or did Clear Channel consider them too dahnce for modern rock or active rock or whatever they call those stations):

Best Electronic/Dance Album
(For vocal or instrumental albums. Albums only.)

We Are The Night
The Chemical Brothers
(Astralwerks)

t
Justice
[Downtown-Vice-Ed Banger]

Sound Of Silver
LCD Soundsystem
[Capitol Records-DFA]

We Are Pilots
Shiny Toy Guns
[Universal Motown]

Elements Of Life
Tiësto
[Ultra Records]

No, they did not get commercial airplay, although they might have gotten some AAA action. As far as the grammy nom, if I remember correctly, the debut was nominated in the same category.

The Gudrun Gut album is really great.

Yea, 4 album votes for Motel Lovers: Southern Soul from the Chitlin' Circuit, and 2 reissues votes. Of those, most were from folks who post here--Matos, Chuck Eddy, Ricky Wright, and me. Maybe the other 2 post here also.

Well, it's kind of a natural for me: I have maybe 10 Bobby "Blue" Bland albums on my iPod.

Ricky, you weren't kidding about your "Slap" lurve!

it was five votes total, not six

Michael Lach and Tom Lane both voted for it as a reissue

No votes for big rock seller Daughtry. 1 album vote for Village Voice Jazz Critics poll winner Maria Schneider's Orchestra, 1 track vote for dancehaller Mr. Vegas

Is that for albums or for artists?

If you put 'daughtry' in the site's search engine, the only item that comes up is Al in Baltimore's list and comments.

The word "pitchfork" appears 8 times, "frere-jones" twice (in comments, he did not vote).

I like Mike (Mcgonigal's ballot)
http://pop.idolator.com/search/mcgonigal/

Too bad Ramiro Burr, Tejano expert, did not vote or Ed Morales, salsa and Latin-pop and rock n espanol proponent. I forwarded them ballots (I think). No fulltimers from the Washington Post voted this year (I think they did last year).

I can't find the 2007 in the Mix stuff. Help?

P.S. Fantastic job, Idolator!

It hasn't been posted yet. It will be over the next few days.

Although Matos' own mixes look great.

TRACKS
1. Soulja Boy - Crank Dat Soulja Boy
2. King Of Clubs - Crank Dat Lion King
3. J-Roc Jr. - Crank Dat Folgers Boy
4. Cheve Chavell & South Bound - Crank Dat Robocop
5. BBP - Crank Dat Hulk
6. Yung Trill - Crank Dat Aquaman
7. Luch Millions - Crank Dat Road Runner
8. Saint 22 - Crank Dat Cookie Dance
9. Yung Seph - Crank Dat Spiderpig
10. Lunie 3:80 - Crank Dat Holy Ghost Pt. 2

Noz should win a medal of honor.

excellent. We have a winner.

Just saw a bit of a video of Pinch- "Underwater Dancehall". it's dubstep. Kinda interesting. Was searching for any mentions of dancehall or reggae (very very few) and came across the 3 votes for that album.

*ahem* I'd just like to point out that "Throw Some D's" got 3 votes last year that weren't figured into this year's total.

Not to be all pedantic or anything.

(Okay, to be pedantic) "With Every Heartbeat" had 2 votes last year.

Great job, MM and Idolators. Will love going through this at greater length soon. As soon as I get over the fact that I was the only voter for about half my singles.

http://pop.idolator.com/343702/ballot-joseph-mccombs

Is the 2006 version of this archived as well? That seems a bit tricky to find on the search.

2006: http://idolator.com/?op=compiledresults

Wow -- congrats Matos and Maura and Jess and whoever did those illos! I'm impressed you got this thing live so quickly, and w/ no bugs that I caught. Can't wait to read it all, and there are no other polls I feel that way about.

Of the things I voted for (and thanks to Curmudgeon for the shout-out), the ones I'm surprised didn't get more respect are "Chocolate Rain" in singles (come on -- that song is **still** earworming me) and the Omar Souleyman comp. in reissues.

A lot of people's reissue choices are weird to me, only 'cause I try to vote for stuff that's not been released/ is super obscure and hence "new." I didn't even know half of these albums got reissued last year...

Yeah, I don't know about opting for obscure reissues for their own sake (which, as I believe Matos himself agrees, has always pushed mediocrities like Shuggie Otis and, er, Betty Davis up the reissue chart), but the ones below seem odd to me to; did these albums ever even go away in the first place? (I mean, if you're a random kid just discovering Joy Division or Sonic Youth, I can see how a reissue might have been useful, but if you're a critic who actually cares about such stuff, wouldn't you already own these albums? (But maybe they had bonus tracks or something? I really have no idea.) (And I did vote for Culture myself, so maybe I'd be guilty of the same thing, in reggae fans' eyes; but nope, I'd never owned Two Sevens Clash before).:

3 Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation 44
7 Sly & the Family Stone - There's A Riot Goin' On 26
10 Joy Division - Closer 17
14 Laurie Anderson - Big Science 13
14 Pink Floyd - The Piper at the Gates of Dawn [40th Anniversary Edition] 13
17 U2 - The Joshua Tree 12

Not sure what this is either:

8 Sly & the Family Stone - The Collection 24

Otherwise, my biggest disappointment with the results is how seemingly random-tracks-off-well-performing-alternative-albums (LCD, Spoon, Battles) etc) did so much better that ringtone rap hits (Soulja Boy 8 votes, Shop Boyz 1 vote, Hurricane Chris 0 votes unless I missed it), when -- no matter what else you think of them -- the latter were undeniably heard as singles. Once upon a time, goofy one-shots along those lines are what used to make the Pazz & Jop singles list fun. I wonder if they would have done better if the ballot stipulated "singles" instead of "tracks." (Or maybe people just don't like them, which would be sad.)

none of the NY Times critics voted (I guess the NY Times doesn't allow them to vote

Back when I was at the Voice, the Times critics rarely sent us their ballots; for some reason, we were allowed to just use the top tens they published in the Times. Not sure when that started, but it was like that at least from before I got there.

485 Shop Boyz - Party Like A Rock Star 1

That would be me, by the way. Unbelievable.

Maybe a lot of younger people just don't know what singles are, in the same way that reissues of 20-25 year old albums might be new to younger critics who wouldn't necessarily have been around when they first came out.

263 Mims - This Is Why I'm Hot 2

263 Mims - This Is Why I'm Hot 2

485 Cupid - Cupid Shuffle 1

ha ha xp

mims is behind 2 manu chao songs!!

Maybe they're just deaf?

xp

Yeah, Jesus, it was depressing when the fucking Joshua Tree did so well the first time it came out. If people who care about music enough to write about really think it was one of the most exciting reissues of 2007, I'm speechless. (How hard would it have been to find a copy of the original vinyl for $1 any time in the last 20 years or so?)

Younger people might not necessarily know what "vinyl" is.

Well, they're probably voting for a (distant?) memory anyhow. Fuck 'em.

BTW, I find this year's all-around results to be more dissapointing than last year's.

xp

Younger people might not necessarily know what "vinyl" is.

And old U2 songs were impossible to download before 2007? (I mean, if they're too young to know how a turntable works, would The Joshua Tree coming out on CD again really be all that big a deal anyway?) (Not trying to pick on U2; for all I know, that reissue had lovely packaging or something.)

And again, we're not talking about just any random "young people." We're talking about young people who actually care about music enough to write about it. They should know what vinyl is.

lol u excited to argue about the joshua tree in 2008

how did only 6 ppl (one being me) put soulja boy on their artists list?

did only like half the ppl fill those out?

I think the younger voter are consciously not voting for those singles for several reasons---the Pitchfork crowd thinks that since rap hits are all over the radio and video outlets that they have to be 'rebellious' and go with their beloved indie-rock that is only on the internet and college radio. Then you got your rap snobs who disdain teenage rap songs involving dance crazes. I voted for Soulja Boy and as I believe Ethan was doing without sarcasm on the sanp thread once, praise its sampled steel drum rhythms (plus the catchy vocals).

The amount of participants dropped as I noted at the top. I Wonder why?

i guess people voted top artists as favorite artists? like t-pain and soulja boy should be on every list

Maybe they should set an entrance exam for anyone who wants to vote next year to test their knowledge.

Less than 50% - FAIL - Vote NOT VALID

i considered wasting a ballot on the crank dat gimmick like noz did but fuck it i did a cd mix for the site too & just talked about soulja boy there

also wtf noz where is crank dat spiderman

the reason cheap ringtone teenrap wasnt on my top 10 was because i was feeling other shit more, period

tho the remix of ay bay bay with kiss & boosie mighta got on mine

I feel the same as I do at presidential election time, when they talk about the number of people who did not vote. I just wish more of the folks that were sent ballots, actually voted. Even if, as Matos pointed out astutely in his essay, that more metal or more afropop participants might not change the top of the ballot, it would at least make the bottom of the ballot more reflective of the year in music.

It's not supposed to be "reflective of the year in music" it's meant to be "reflective of the year in the music listened to by a bunch of shut-in aspie rubesmusic critics"

I'm not surprised those ringtone rap hits are't on any particular ballots; people should vote for what they like. I'm just surprised that almost nobody voted for them. (As for U2, for all I know, it might've mostly old people who voted for the reissue. Maybe the same people who voted for it in 1987! And they know what vinyl is for sure.)

I abstained from the "artist" vote myself. The category just seems really vague to me, forcing you to compare apples with oranges. I kind of hate it, so I listed my favorite EPs instead. (Last year I voted for all websites, like pandora.com and cdbaby.com, as "favorite artists." If I'd cared enough about Lil Wayne or Akon or T-Pain or some producer this year, I probably would have voted for them -- those would've made sense -- but I didn't.)

fwiw:

6 Lil Wayne 52
12 T-Pain 18 1 for "T-Pain's Talk Box"
147 Akon 1

i wonder if carter III (assuming it's released of course) will go top 3 in this poll next year.

altho i guess we can save prognosticating the next poll for another time

despite his increased ubiquity i was still surprised at how 'well' wayne did this year

for shits and giggles, the hip hop top 10s extracted from the Idolator lists:

Albums:
8 Kanye West - Graduation 702 67
23 Jay-Z - American Gangster 278 28
26 Lil Wayne - Da Drought 3 271 27
29 UGK - Underground Kingz 230 22
64 El-P - I'll Sleep When You're Dead 124 12
66 Brother Ali - The Undisputed Truth 122 12
69 Ghostface Killah - The Big Doe Rehab 116 12
73 Wu-Tang Clan - 8 Diagrams 112 11
80 v/a - Hyphy Hitz 100 10
83 Prodigy - Return of the Mac 96 10

Tracks(not counting R&B tracks w/ rappers like "Umbrella" and "I'm A Flirt"):
8 UGK ft. OutKast - Int'l Players Anthem (I Choose You) 49
10 Kanye West - Stronger 35
13 Lil Mama - Lip Gloss 27
15 Kanye West - Can't Tell Me Nothing 22
19 Jay-Z - Roc Boys (And the Winner Is . . .) 17
24 50 Cent - I Get Money 15 1 for remix
29 Kanye West ft T-Pain - Good Life 12
29 Timbaland ft. Keri Hilson - The Way I Are 12
46 DJ Khaled ft. Akon, T.I., Rick Ross, Fat Joe, Lil' Wayne & Birdman - We Takin' Over 9
46 Rich Boy ft. Polow Da Don - Throw Some D's 9 1 for mix ft. Andre 3000, Jim Jones, Murphy Lee & The Game

Artists:
3 Kanye West 58 1 for "Kanye vs. 50"; 1 for "Kanye's Venetian-Blind Sunglasses"
6 Lil Wayne 52
12 T-Pain 18 1 for "T-Pain's Talk Box"
17 Jay-Z 16
20 Timbaland 12
25 UGK 9 3 for Pimp C
38 Andre 3000 6
38 Soulja Boy 6 1 for Crank Dat Soulja Boy (the ringtone)
38 Wu-Tang Clan 6 4 for the RZA
51 Danjahandz 4

Ringtone rap hits in America aren't necessarily hits in other countries so it would be unsurprising if, for instance, British-based voters didn't vote for them.

The answer really is to set up specialist polls.

8 Kanye West - Graduation 702 67
23 Jay-Z - American Gangster 278 28

x-post to chuck: I've never been one to like anything obscure just *'cause* it's obscure, myself -- not since I was maybe seventeen years old, anyway. I def. agree w/ you about those particular reissues -- maybe they had extra discs of all unreleased stuff? Strange choices.

As to tracks -- I picked a few standout songs from Big Records -- Radiohead, Battles, LCD -- that I otherwise liked but didn't feel perhaps as strongly as others... I did put "Bartender" on there, and "Real Talk" (which isn't as catchy as "Flirt" but I feel it's more innovative, and lyrically it's almost like a New York School poem or something if I may be silly for a second) though Kels doesn't count as ringtone rap so I don't even know why I'm mentioning that. If my memory had served me better I'd have included "Suicidal," since I loved that all last summer. (If only my radio could tell me how many times I listened to a song, the way the computer can.)

And if I weren't bored by the sound of my own voice complaining about U2 I'd gladly argue about 'em. I've always enjoyed hating them, but there's only so many times you can say the same thing over and over, right? Or tell the world's worst lightbulb joke with Bono as the star of it.

<i>the Pitchfork crowd thinks that since rap hits are all over the radio and video outlets that they have to be 'rebellious' and go with their beloved indie-rock that is only on the internet and college radio.</i>

oh, come on now. Is Pitchfork just a lazy stand-in for "indie" or even "the internet" here, or do you really think that we, as a staff, don't enjoy music in the charts and/or that we deny ourselves the enjoyment of it because of some juvenile, misguided belief that doing so means we're smarter or different than other people? (Though not actually different at all based on this Idolator poll.)

fwiw, while we voted for 50 tracks on our first ballots rather than 10, our little 40-person staff logged more mentions in our staff poll of the Shop Boyz, Soulja Boy, or Lil Mama than the assembled critics did in the Idolator poll. Maybe the simplest answer is correct: Some of these songs, while popular, just weren't what most people were feeling this year.

it would be unsurprising if, for instance, British-based voters didn't vote for them.

-- Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, January 16, 2008 4:22 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

we are North American scum.

-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, January 16, 2008 12:38 AM (16 hours ago) Bookmark Link

Not everyone who voted in the Idolator poll was American, North or otherwise.

???

EVERYONE IS RONG

The reason that ringtone rap wasn't all over the list is because music critics, more than ever, do all their listening on computers, and when 700 blogs are posting a new song a day, and it's easier than ever to download every single critically acclaimed albums for free, and people can catch up on everything they hear about on Rhapsody... then they just don't have ubiquitous songs drilled in their head anymore like when they used to hear "Hey Ya" all day on the radio and on TV. You can completely shut yourself off from Billboard land. I know more and more people who do all their listening on the internet. Instead of turning on Hot 97 when they're bored, or playing the UGK album a third time, they just download Tirenawnewm because they heard someone on a message board talk about. I have friends that probably don't even know what "Crank That" is.

People hear albums once instead of four times more than ever.

If only my radio could tell me how many times I listened to a song, the way the computer can

I was waiting for someone to mention this; thanks Mike! I'd been wondering if people were compiling their singles ballots this way these days; this exchange (which has nothing to do with country) is from the Rolling Country '07 thread, a few weeks ago:

the "records I played most" rule is what Lester Bangs always claimed to have done with his top 10 ballots, too, and now I actually get the idea (esp. with singles lists) that the method is becoming more popular, since download and social networking sites frequently do keep precise count of how many plays X and Y tracks get. But that just seems cold and clinical to me -- seems like it would take the fun out of a list. At very least, I should have the leeway to *guess* what I played most, and fudge a little.

-- xhuxk, Monday, December 24, 2007 3:16 PM

>>since download and social networking sites frequently do keep precise >>count of how many plays X and Y tracks get<<

Doesn't align. Too much pooching, the oxygen of the Internet, going on.
How many people stick around on their own sites, logging in through anonymous servers, or just deleting their browser caches, to pump up their numbers? Everyone. Those who say they don't are liars.

Plus, I've found that if I actually take the trouble to download something I want to listen to, I don't listen on the PC, I burn it and play it in the stereo later. That means downloads can get played hardly at all before I delete them, depending on my opine.

-- Gorge, Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:45 PM

like when they used to hear "Hey Ya" all day on the radio and on TV

You talk about "Hey Ya" like it existed decades ago. Anyway, there are lots of tracks in the poll which work against this blog/mp3 theory, I think (like, for instance, "Umbrella"?).

But "Umbrella" had probably more or less the same audience (in size and demographic) and media exposure as "Crank That" or any big Southern rap hit. Presumably they just liked it more. (xpost)

The reason that ringtone rap wasn't all over the list is because music critics, more than ever, do all their listening on computers, and when 700 blogs are posting a new song a day, and it's easier than ever to download every single critically acclaimed albums for free, and people can catch up on everything they hear about on Rhapsody... then they just don't have ubiquitous songs drilled in their head anymore like when they used to hear "Hey Ya" all day on the radio and on TV.

QUOTED FOR GODDAMN TRUTH

I don't know, I find it hard to believe that critics ignored rap hits because they were too busy downloading mp3s off blogs, though probably some were. (Ironically, I'm pretty sure I found out about Mims and Dude & Nem from mp3 blogs.)

Except "Umbrella" stayed at number one for ten weeks in BRITAIN which if you look at the list of voters was well represented in the poll (xxp).

(my last post was an xpost with sw00ds, not a reply to it, btw)

XP

But "Umbrella" had probably more or less the same audience (in size and demographic) and media exposure as "Crank That" or any big Southern rap hit. Presumably they just liked it more. (xpost)

I would assume that "Umbrella" had WAY more reach than "Crank That." Maybe I haven't a clue. I rarely hear music in any public setting.

the demographic info asked for included nationality right? I can't remember. hopefully when Matos gets those stats up we can actually see how many voters were British or not American.

I don't know, I find it hard to believe that critics ignored rap hits because they were too busy downloading mp3s off blogs, though probably some were. (Ironically, I'm pretty sure I found out about Mims and Dude & Nem from mp3 blogs.)

-- sw00ds, Wednesday, January 16, 2008 10:00 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

I never said "ignored," I just said they were denyed the chance to have a song drilled into their head until it makes sense. Not everyone knows they love a song after hearing it once on a blog. Some songs ("Umbrella") are irresistable on first listen, other songs take time.

This is kinda funny since I remember Whiney and I talking over this very thing a little while back! Hurrah for a wider dialogue now.

FWIW, my own personal take via the ballot essay:

I heard more music from all over the place this year than ever before and most of it I only heard once before moving on to the next album or song or mix. The big hit singles hit me not with repetition but with generalized and often anonymous osmosis, from being out and about and getting a snatch of a song here and there [and often that was enough -- like hooks have been so relentlessly perfected that one or two listens are all that's needed], rather than trying to actively pursue them or to subject myself to the kind of reigns of aural tyranny that made things like that OneRepublic song omnipresent in recent months. To create a list out of all that seems increasingly close to futile (and if I solely listened to music via my computer, last.fm would have done all the work for me).

Is this everyone's approach? Hardly. Is it pretty common? Doubtless.

I still listen to Top 40 radio (as in, radio stations, not iTunes Radio or whatever), mostly at night, and that's how I absorb a lot of the mainstream hits. The opposite holds true as well: if a favorite song makes it on the radio and gets played ad nauseam, I'm happy.

That's interesting, Ned, and in a way I wish I experienced music more as you do--by "osmosis"--but sad to say my listening (and my tastes, I'll be the first to admit) is increasingly rarified, if that makes sense. I seek the sorts of sounds I know I like, and I drill them into my head via my iPod. (In part, I have to do this so I can produce a singles column each month.) Very little of this stuff hits me in a random, public way--I wish that werent' the case, or I wish I had a bit more of that to balance things out, but there you go.

I'm not surprised that "Crank That" didn't place because "Crank That"'s equivalent in just about any other year (whatever that might be) probably didn't place either. Really what the list reaffirms is my suspicion that critical consensus and overall embrace of hip hop is way down from its peak 2 or 3 years ago (just at a glance, 4 rap albums in the Idolator poll's top 40 this year, down from 8 last year).

(There's also the not-insignificant factor that my job just leaves me little time for randomness outside of work. So many hours in the day to catch up, etc.)

not tryna defend the lame ass critics who voted in this but i think rap albums might be down this year cuz there was not really a bunch of great rap albums this year

Really what the list reaffirms is my suspicion that critical consensus and overall embrace of hip hop is way down from its peak 2 or 3 years ago when corny indie fucks were pretending to like Jeezy and Dipset

FIXED

]I'm not surprised that "Crank That" didn't place because "Crank That"'s equivalent in just about any other year (whatever that might be) probably didn't place either.

Yeah, I don't think critics en masse have ever really flocked to what I think it's fair to call "novelty rap" (and which I mean as a compliment--I tend to go for goofy one-offs myself over the big guns).

btw quick link back to this thread for any fun comparisons to predictions: Oh No, Pass the Lord and Praise the Ammunition--It’s Time for the 2007 P&J / Jackin’ Pop Prognostication Thread!

closest thing to a "Crank That" equivalent that placed high in the past: "Get Low" at #17 in 2003.

I can certainly confirm that the reason I didn't vote for "Crank That" is that I can't bloody abide it. It happens.

how the fuck is get low a crank that equiv????

i said "closest thing," as in not very close. but y'know, fun Southern rap hit that many people probably assumed would be a one hit wonder before the artists went on to have a bunch more hits.

Kanye's the only album I have/like that will place highly, but I don't think it's nearly as good as his other albums so I kinda hope he doesn't threepeat. I can't think of any other rap album that will place highly, unless Wayne drops in early December or the Jay-Z is better than horrible. Nothing being rallied around this year the same way as Ghostface/Clipse last year. Maybe UGK? Wu Tang? Common?

Singles I don't even wanna think about it, as it will probably be Umbrella/Stronger and other bullshit. I'll probably opt out of voting again just to not feel responsible at all for the result.

-- Alex in Baltimore, Friday, September 21, 2007 10:35 AM (3 months ago) Bookmark Link

I totally called this. Except for Common, who's down at #113 (and Be was at #15 on Pazz & Jop two years ago).

1992:

2. House of Pain: "Jump Around" (Tommy Boy) 40
3. Kris Kross: "Jump" (Ruffhouse/Columbia) 37
7. Sir Mix-a-Lot: "Baby Got Back" (Def American) 25

Ioannis is all "YAHHH TRICK YAHHH"

Good singles, those.

i dunno why everybody is bustin out at a rock critic poll that had a bunch of rock critic bullshit on it... ugk in the top 30 is enough for me

Alex, what would you have liked to see place (apart from UGK)? Or would it have just seemed wrong for any of the stuff you liked this year to do well in a poll like this?

damn... looking at these ballots folks are really diggin lcd soundsystem

I don't know if you guys are misreading me or if I'm just expressing myself badly, but I'm not actually mad or disappointed by the results, I just find them interesting and am analyzing them a little bit. I'm totally happy that my 2 favorite rap albums of the year (UGK and Prodigy) made the top 100, and the 2 others I voted for (Freeway and Scarface) were released pretty late in the year anyway. Only thing I really think is lame re: hip hop in the albums poll is Jay-Z's 2nd worst album placing so high, but I kinda knew that would happen.

xp

Crank That"'s equivalent in just about any other year (whatever that might be) probably didn't place either

"Lean Back"? "Tipsy"? "Get Low"? "Hot In Herre"? "Ride Wit Me"? "Shake Ya Ass"? "Thong Song"? "Back That Azz Up"? "Bling Bling"? "Still Not A Player"? "Woo Hah! Got You All in Check"? "C'Mon And Ride It"? "They Want EFX"? "Rump Shaker"? "Gonna Make You Sweat"? "The Humpty Dance"? "Jump"? "Jump Around"? "Baby Got Back"? "The Power"? "Whoomp! There It Is"? "Bust A Move"? "Funky Cold Medina"?

Quibble about half of that list if you want, but those all did way better in the years they came out than Soulja Boy did this year. So I'm not sure what other "equivalent" hits you would mean.

Not to derail this convo, but that's really Jay-Z's fourth or fifth best album. And the Freeway is really lacking beatwise.

http://pop.idolator.com/340695/ballot-david-drake

this is my dude^^

I'd vote for the Jay-Z as biggest dissapointment of the year.

I pretty much gave up music radio listening this year. I've heard Umbrella I've never heard OF Crank That.

Number three in this week's Fun 40!

xhuxk, i was thinking more of big southern rap hits of this decade that weren't by big brand name artists like Outkast or T.I., so only a handful of those you mention, but thanks for the list, now i'm really curious to look up where some of those songs placed.

xhuxk's list pretty much demolishes my own rambling on this subject! (never mind that I probably prefer every one of those tracks to "Crank That," which I'm actually now intrigued to hear again).

I think Chuck was going for the "novelty rap" results there, Al.

xp

are you really arguing that soulja boy occupies the same space in music as house of pain in 93 or busta in 96???

More like Kris Kross, I'd say.

For regular pop fans who aren't rap afficianados? Sure.

Fwiw, I suspect that more people (for instance, the teenage fans who made a huge hit -- i.e., the ones who love yelling "yooooouuu" and doing the superman dancestep on the subway) hear "Crank That" as a "goofy novelty hit" than as "Southern" (though obviously, it's both). I could be wrong, though.

I think this is what led me to ask:

"I'll probably opt out of voting again just to not feel responsible at all for the result."

I should get around to hearing the Prodigy album, everything I've read makes it sound fab.

BTW Tom's CD comp write-up is pretty great, while Jon Caramanica's is both great and highly relevant to this discussion.

Re "Crank That", isn't it more of a "Laffy Taffy" equiv? I love the steel drum arrangement but much prefer "This Is Why I'm Hot" (or the Mr Collipark remix of "Soulja Girl").

xp And yeah, I think plenty of people heard "Woo Hah!" and "Jump Around" as funny novelty hits, too. (But like I said, you don't have to agree with every song on that list; Snap and Sisqo aren't even actually hip-hop! My point is that goofy rap one-offs have often done real well in the P&J standings.) (Though right, I guess maybe "Laffy Taffy" didn't. Neither did Vanilla Ice, or Hammer.)

"I'll probably opt out of voting again just to not feel responsible at all for the result."

That was semi-facetious, I voted in both this and P&J for the first time this year (was invited last year but just kinda slacked on it and didn't feel too good about what my ballot would've been anyway).

Hip-hop albums -- lots of which come out in December -- might also do better in polls if critics were actually allowed to wait till the end of the year to vote.

Off-topic but no Enthusiasm 40 this year??

well, December 21st is pretty late (especially compared to most print places -- i submitted a top 10 for a weekly paper in late November and a lot of mags seemed to finish theirs weeks earlier), i'm not sure those extra 10 days would've mae a ton of difference. and Ghostface and Wu Tang did pretty decently for December releases, after all.

It's not the same thing as the NME saying that Psychocandy would have been one of the greatest albums ever made if only it had come out two weeks earlier.

For me, having the week between Xmas and New Year's to review the year and catch up on what I've missed makes ALL the difference. I think the shift toward earlier polls is a lousy trend.

enthusiasm 40 is here

December 21st is pretty late

Totally disagree. Xgau, in Slate a couple weeks ago:

naming your favorite albums of the year before the year is even over is impossible by definition.

December 21st is actually the earliest P&J/Idolator due date ever.

no it isn't last year's Idolator poll was Dec. 14 (moved back from Dec. 10)

and anyway like Al said most mags/papers' due dates are way earlier

Well, second-earliest, then...right, Jackin' Pop #1 had that super quick turnaround time, and that was rectified somewhat this year. But the Pazz & Jop due dates were always after the holidays (when critics traditionally have been assumed to have more time to catch up on stuff they've missed) were over. And this year, the P&J due date was pushed back as well.

(That other mags had earlier deadlines is nothing new, either -- That's been the case at, say, Spin for years. Of course, what with the web and all, there's way more competition now than there used to be. But part of what was always supposed to make P&J stand out was that it didn't need to be earlier, because it was rightly or wrongly considered more definitive and comprehensive.)

I've never worked a day in a music store without having somebody at least ask me about vinyl, even if we didn't have any. And, at least locally, the mom 'n' pop stores that do sell vinyl (and CDs) have long outlasted both the (come and go of)chain and mom 'n' pop stores that sell CDs only. (Crosley turntable-CD-radio combos, incl a model that records CD-Rs from the turntable, seem pretty popular now; they're not the best, but they're handy, and in several stores, chain and indie) And a fair number of vinyl customers are young, like to mention their blogs etc., hell some of 'em might've voted in this. I guess The Joshua Tree is new to some, but couldn't see voting for a famous album unless there were significant-to-revelatory bonus tracks, which never happens with such albums (or does it?)Matos, is there a way to see which crits voted for a certain album or track?

I make no apologies for voting for Daydream Nation as a reissue, but it was actually a last minute substitution for Nigeria Special, which while undeniably amazing is only officially being released this year, though initial promos went out in November.

So that's why I haven't gotten my copy yet. (Daydream Nation at least had a somewhat worthwhile bonus live disc to reccomend it. What the hell did the U2 and Joy Division reissues have to tempt old fans?)

The fact that old people generally have lots of money and no taste?

is there a way to see which crits voted for a certain album or track?

Just search the site for the name of the album and it should bring up individual ballots, like so:

http://pop.idolator.com/search/joshua%20tree/

(I don't see a more direct way.)

Britney Spears: #33 on the charts, #4 in our hearts.

And the Freeway is really lacking beatwise.

-- Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 15:36 (2 hours ago) Link

???

it wouldnt be whiney g if it wasnt RONG

Ha. I'm just saying it's good, not great.

comparing "crank dat" to fucking "bling bling" is retarded

it's way more comparable to "lean wit it rock it"

beat-wise and culturally

and i know he's mad love/hate but a wayne mixtape being in the top 30 on a list like this is a pretty big step for rap

esp. if it the general public start opening their minds up to mixtapes i.e. free good rap

crank dat has more in common with bling bling than fuckin JUMP AROUND

Otherwise, my biggest disappointment with the results is how seemingly random-tracks-off-well-performing-alternative-albums (LCD, Spoon, Battles) etc) did so much better that ringtone rap hits (Soulja Boy 8 votes, Shop Boyz 1 vote, Hurricane Chris 0 votes unless I missed it), when -- no matter what else you think of them -- the latter were undeniably heard as singles. Once upon a time, goofy one-shots along those lines are what used to make the Pazz & Jop singles list fun. I wonder if they would have done better if the ballot stipulated "singles" instead of "tracks." (Or maybe people just don't like them, which would be sad.)

fwiw, all the LCD, Spoon, & Battles songs that placed high, except maybe "You Got Yr Cherry Bomb" were singles. "The Underdog" even got a decent amount of modern rock airplay.

http://www.penpal.ru/astro/10075971.jpg
"This is one ... small step for rap ... one ... giant leap for critics."

I think "Laffy Taffy" is the best comparison anyone has or will come up with for "Crank That". One thing I notice is that compared to all those songs xhuxk listed, except for maaaybe "Woo-Hah", "Crank That" is the darkest-sounding. Compared to "Laffy Taffy", too. I'm stealing this description from Matos, but it's really dark and creepy and fucked-up in a way most other nov-rap hits aren't.

"This Is Why I'm Hot" is pretty creepy.

and thats saying nothing about how mims looks

Aye xp

If anything, "Lip Gloss", or even "Stronger" have more in common with most of the songs xhuxk listed.

You mean besides the fact that virtually all the singles he mentioned were hit novelty rap songs? Sure.

fwiw, all the LCD, Spoon, & Battles songs that placed high, except maybe "You Got Yr Cherry Bomb" were singles. "The Underdog" even got a decent amount of modern rock airplay.

This is true, but it makes me realize that until a few years ago, I wouldn't have really understood the notion of a "single" that wasn't on the radio. Now that artists can release promo mp3s and put videos up onto YouTube, it's possible to think of songs as singles that probably *would* have just seemed like random tracks off albums otherwise.

I mean, "Atlas" is definitely one of the highlights of Mirrored, but I'm sure it benefited from the fact that it was the song that Pitchfork streamed before the album came out and therefore the one that bloggers latched onto.

To the extent that Whiney is right about radio pop hits having more competition these days, much of that is because it's now possible to hear indie-rock songs as one has always heard pop songs, i.e., in isolation from the rest of the record, no longer burdened by context or unity. And when that happens, they're probably more likely to be voted for on a Best Singles/Tracks list.

Please refer to my previous posts. You seem to have missed them. xp

xp

"Lip Gloss" is more similar to the songs I named, maybe. "Stronger" is a hit off an album by a critics' darling whose albums consistently finish in the top ten of critics' polls. Which sets it apart from every song I named, no matter what it might share with a few of them musically.

And now I'm not sure whether people are claiming Soulja Boy's song would have done better if it was "less a novelty," "less Southern," or "less dark and creepy." (Though I think you could find examples of rap hits with all three traits scoring in Pazz & Jop in the past. My main point was just that I expected "Crank That" would finish near the top ten, and it didn't even come close. But obviously critics' perception of the record are different than I thought they were. I was under the impression critics really liked both that song and Mims' one.)

jaymc, "Atlas" also had a (pretty damn good) video, so it was a single rather than just a track.

Basically, indie voters voting for their favorite tracks off albums they also vote for are the new version of AOR voters who always used to vote for tracks off albums they also voted for. It's not a new phenomenon; just the genre has changed. (And right, I know there is no such thing as an "indie voter" or an "AOR voter." It just seems that way.)

(I used to think that P&J should start a rule that'd say voters aren't allowed to vote for singles off of albums they voted for on their album lists. It'd make the singles list more lively, if nothing else.)

xhuxk, you're making good and valid points all over the place, but you're still nuts if you ever thought "Crank That" was gonna be anywhere near the top 10, or even the top 40. i barely saw it on anyone's year-end lists even before this poll.

I know there is no such thing as an "indie voter"

yes there is

- rodney's (almost wrote rjg, ulp) list is good, i like that he kinda has a niche of his own now. guess i picked the wrong year to suspend the reggaeton research

- reynolds put furtado 'say it right' at #1?? did we ponder that one yet

- elisabeth vincintelli is uh what, tom ewing's wife? please god at least let her actually be english

- quite excited to see the mr vegases crop up!! ...but then one turns out to be at the bottom of a super corny list with 'young folks' at the top :(

- likewise with the joshua alston mix that has the spacey jill scott song and kelly rowland / tank, he kinda ruined it with that 'overcooked' jab at the end there

- curmudgeon: did richie spice have an album or get signed or something this year? cos i know 'youths so cold' from like summer 2005 but havent seen it crop up it since

- explain me a rocko? i mean if it aint my destiny to understand a fake jeezy umma doing a fake weezy then fair enough i guess i will learn to cope somehow but still

Oh, I know it was a single, Matt. But if Mirrored had come out 10 or 15 years ago, the degree to which "Atlas" would have widely understood as a single would have been limited to chance encounters on college radio or maybe on 120 Minutes. It's far easier in 2007 for a whole bunch of people to think of it as a single.

xhuxk, you are right about "Stronger". I hadn't taken Kanye's track record into consideration, which I should have done.

- reynolds put furtado 'say it right' at #1?? did we ponder that one yet

this song is awesome

you're still nuts if you ever thought "Crank That" was gonna be anywhere near the top 10, or even the top 40. i barely saw it on anyone's year-end lists even before this poll.

I pretty much agree with Al here. I think people were mildly interested in the song as a phenomenon, but a lot of that fascination was of the car-crash variety. I mean, the way I heard people talk about "Crank That" wasn't that different from how they talked about "My Humps."

anybody besides me even vote for rocko??

I for one, prefer "Soulja Girl."

x-post!

just you yeah

bleargh

(I used to think that P&J should start a rule that'd say voters aren't allowed to vote for singles off of albums they voted for on their album lists. It'd make the singles list more lively, if nothing else.)

-- xhuxk, Wednesday, January 16, 2008 12:01 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

I wholeheartedly agree with this. When I see lists where the singles include seven songs from the albums, it strikes me as incredibly lazy.

somehow we haven't mentioned the fact that young folks is in the top 10 again

(I used to think that P&J should start a rule that'd say voters aren't allowed to vote for singles off of albums they voted for on their album lists. It'd make the singles list more lively, if nothing else.)

this is retarded and would invalidate the singles list

xp I totally predicted that it would be!

after stuff like the Hua Hsu piece on Slate that talked about the LCD Soundsystem song like it's an unavoidable hit, or the Gawker thing that called the Feist album "this year's The Love Below" or whatever, i feel like there are a lot of people living inside an indie bubble where they have so many indie friends that whatever they're all listening to is an earth-shattering hit. i mean i guess it's been like that in New York for a long time and maybe it's like that all over the country now.

Battles - Atlas (from the album Mirrored)

Views: 752,825

i feel like there are a lot of people living inside an indie bubble where they have so many indie friends that whatever they're all listening to is an earth-shattering hit

Spin had a year-end piece about this phenomenon 11 years ago.

"Super-Fire" and some song off of Emperor Tompato Ketchup were discussed, among others.

I think I'd like to see that article.

it might not be a new revelation but its becoming more pronounced i think, since record sales are no longer an accurate indicator of popularity - its sort of hard to figure what the real trends are in some ways

I wanted my albums and singles lists to be mutually exclusive, if for no other reason than to spread out and cover as much music as possible, but when it came down to it there were 2 artists that ended up on both (UGK and Paramore).

i voted for singles AND albums by !!! and Modest Mouse. I am so part of the problem.

Really, its disgusting how Best Buy Indie Rock my list is.

I wonder if I'm the only person who voted for both Wilco and Arcade Fire on my singles list but not on my albums list.

i mean isn't indie ppl bugging out about the ubiquity of feist like okayplayer types spending 5 months talking about ear drum or something

only singles/albums crossover for me was crime mob & dj khaled

my crossovers were lcd, ugk and parts and labor

this is retarded and would invalidate the singles list

Hey, I'm "retarded" twice today! But yeah, it is retarded; it would mean "Billie Jean" and "Little Red Corvette" and "Dancing in the Dark" and "Bring The Noise" and "Smells Like Teen Spirit" couldn't have placed, which would indeed be retarded. (So I wish the retarded problem of people filing lazy singles ballots had a different solution.)

(I voted for both a single and album by Aly & AJ myself this year, so I'm part of the problem, too.)

wtf is parts and labor

band whiney used to be in

ya boys jess and al in balt like them a lot too

lol chuck i wasn't calling you retarded just saying that it's a retarded idea. it would also manipulate the albums votes if ppl really wanted to vote for a single and would just invalidate the whole poll

in good company xp

jordan maybe you can explain this to me since youre some kinda quasi rap dude who fucks with gucci mane and shit... why did you waste a vote on lcd soundsystem

i mean i dug your comments on my post a couple weeks back and was expecting maybe somebody else would put in a vote for back to the traphouse but instead your shit was all rock music and ghostface

I avoided any crossover, although I think "No Te Veo" is the only song from my albums that would have made my singles list otherwise, maybe "Tango del Pecado" or "I Want You to Know".

i actually didn't even hear back to the traphouse until a few weeks ago (after the deadline)

I'm more offended by Jordan picking Plies than any of his indie rock.

plus my tastes lean more rock anyway

if i could ahve included ten more albums it would ahve had ye and freeway and wayne and rich boy, but i probably enjoy a B+ indie album more than a B+ dirty south album if that makes sense

lol i was mad embarrassed about that after i realized how much ppl hated that song but i decided that i'd put it on htere in the interest of 'honesty'

plus i only fuck with that for the t-pain part anyway

anyway did you guys peep our boy f3nn3ss3y turning his back on rap?

i fuck with it, man

plus whenever i hear it now i think of hoos saying 'sarges be mackin' and lololoollol

xp you mean vibe magazine music editor sean fennessey?

i liked shawty just not top-10 liked it

yeah max if you search for plies we are the only 2 that come up

its almost like hiring some new-jack from the suburbs who got into rap in 2003 through hollertronix wasnt the best idea

Sean was going on about the Feist album when I saw him at Pitchfork Fest last summer.

#5 artist of the year= not rap

yeah i was gonna say, dude has more rap albums on his ballot than i do! then i saw the "not rap" thing lol

ha i didnt actually look at the ballot

4. Prodigy - Return of the Mac
10. Freeway - Free At Last

6. 50 Cent - I Get Money

^^ all shared w/ my ballot

plus if i knew that ultimate force got reissued probly woulda knocked j-rock off my reissues

plies is good, dudes

i only have one rap album on my ballot but my 10-20 if i thought about it would probably be majority rap... there wasnt that much great stuff this year, mostly just a bunch of solid-to-good

i keep hearing good things about Plies but none of the songs/verses i've heard have really convinced me. is there any one or two tracks i should really give a chance?

I actually do like "Hypnotized", but more for Akon than for Plies.

shawty has t-pains best hook.

Prodigy and UGK got shaved off my ballot at the last moment. Sry bout that.

i can't get over the amount of times that the edited versions of his songs say "goon"

shawty has t-pains best hook.

-- max, Wednesday, January 16, 2008 2:38 PM (37 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

^^yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

- elisabeth vincintelli is uh what, tom ewing's wife? please god at least let her actually be english

Elisabeth is a totally awesome human being who's one of the music editors at TONY. She's Castillian, I think. She has some of the most eclectic and interesting taste in music of anyone I know.

"Shawty" is incredibly obnoxious, including the hook, although the use of "goon" is pretty haha.

plies verse was ghostwritten by necro

carmancia's list of posse remixes left out "2 step" which was rmx of the year imo

not including stuff like 'wipe me down' or 'i'm a flirt' which were functionally the originals

I didn't realize "Wipe Me Down" (which never hit here) was a remix.

Amerie album voters are interesting company: me, Alfred, the Lex, Andy K, Marcello, sw00ds, The Reverend, Eppy, Tom Ewing, former Idolator dude Brian Raftery, former Stylus guy Nate Deyoung, and a few people I don't recognize.

Yeah the original was just Foxx, then the remix that was a single was w/ Boosie and Webbie. There was another remix with some shitty verses by Fat Joe and Jim Jones and I think someone else, but I dunno if that was official since it recycled the verses from the first remix too.

(xpost I probably woulda voted Amerie if I hadn't heard the album just a few days after turning in my ballot)

i was playing the shit out of "gotta work" this summer but i kinda forgot about it as the year went on

many x-posts

Oh, shit. By the way, good lookin' out Jordan and Al. Thanks for the nods. Seriously means a lot. Totally honored and floored.

6th-sveltest album of the year

I'm kind of amazed Amerie cracked the top 50, considering it was neither a) available in the U.S., nor b) heavily blogged about.

i downloaded it bcuz of the push idolator gave it

from Caramanica's 'in the mix':
"In a year where there were NO great rap albums..."

^^^whaaa

i mean i know my list was real rap heavy, and only really reflected a certain part of my listening habits (or more accurately my mindstate when i realized 'oh shit the deadline was yesterday') and i dont claim to have made a list of unimpeachable classics or something but the idea that there were no great rap albums this year is suspect

i thought caramanica was a ugk dickrider from waaaay back... underground kingz not a great album?????

ALBUMS (descending points)
Lil Wayne, Da Drought 3
Miranda Lambert, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend
Rich Boy, Rich Boy
Lil Wayne & The Empire, The Drought Is Over 2 (The Carter 3 Sessions)
Elliott Yamin, Elliott Yamin
Lloyd, Street Love
Black Kids - Wizard of Ahhhs EP
UGK, Underground Kingz
T-Pain, Epiphany
Taylor Swift, Taylor Swift

While it was a pretty lousy year for hip-hop, 2007 at the VERY least is a year with one classic rap album.

still dont understand why youd choose drought 3 over underground kingz and i like drought 3 a lot

Elliott Yamin, Elliott Yamin

¯\(o_O)/¯

i dont get the vote for rich boy. maybe i need to reevaluate but after one listen i remember thinking it was pretty shitty

Elisabeth is a totally awesome human being who's one of the music editors at TONY. She's Castillian, I think. She has some of the most eclectic and interesting taste in music of anyone I know.

-- forksclovetofu

castillian? what are you like her standard bearer? anyway if by eclectic & interesting you mean to say bizarro-world anglophilia then by all means rave away

i mean honestly, akala SHE VOTED FOR AKALA

i couldn't in good faith choose wayne freestyling about sly stallone over 26 songs of ugk

Elliott Yamin?!? haha xp

I like Max's ballot.

Caramanica's ballot looks like a Kelefa Sanneh top 10.

i like rich boy a lot

dude's got a great voice + the beat's are good (but not as amazing as polow dick riders say) and there's a lot of really um emotional songs about dead dudes that are actually pretty great

thx rev but despite my best efforts it still ended up pretty boring

one of those albums that ends up exceeding the sum of its parts

who is max

http://pop.idolator.com/341171/ballot-max-read

ghost rider

real good singles ballot i think, love that remake of the vangelis song

im pretty sure max and rev were the only dudes who voted for snoop single

high five for 'top ten songs with numbers in them'

semi-inspired by that prodigy track but mostly just an exercise in nerd-dom

Amerie album voters are interesting company: me, Alfred, the Lex, Andy K, Marcello, sw00ds, The Reverend, Eppy, Tom Ewing, former Idolator dude Brian Raftery, former Stylus guy Nate Deyoung, and a few people I don't recognize.

-- jaymc, Wednesday, January 16, 2008 12:47 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

N1ck M1nichino is a kid from Yale, if I remember right, who ended up hanging out with the ILM crowd at the EMP conference last year. He's posted here from time to time since then. eppy = M1ke B4rthell? No idea who J1mmy Dr4per or M4tthew G4steier are.

so do you have to actually write about music to vote in this poll?

Yeah, Eppy = Mike B.

im pretty sure max and rev were the only dudes who voted for snoop single

-- J0rdan S., Wednesday, January 16, 2008 1:06 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

+ DaveM and some dude I've never heard of.

snoop was a last-minute addition but i stand by it

Snoop is probably one of those songs that broke too late in the year, might catch more votes next year? "Flashing Lights" too.

its a good song, i considered voting for it

then i voted for all rap bangers, simian mobile disco and divaesque euro house

I have a feeling Snoop will pick up more votes next year. The song's still getting out into the world as it is, let alone a month ago. xp

i was glad too see that simian song on your ballot deej.

i had it in the bottom of my top 10 in a few prelim lists but eventually bumped it into the 15ish range

same for the album too actually

lol @ 8 of the 10 songs on the Radiohead album getting multiple votes, really underlines what we were talking about a minute ago re: singles vs. tracks

also frowny face @ "Feel Like Dying" being the 2nd highest tracks appearance by Lil Wayne.

Interesting the amount of Amerie overlap here:

Hyphy Hitz

me
Lex
Weiny
DaveM
J0sh L4nghoff (who?)
K3n T6cker (who?)
Rickey/Timi Yuro
sw00ds
St3ve Kn0pper (who?)
Tom E.

Ken Tucker writes for Entertainment Weekly, I believe.

haha I like how anyone apparently outside the ILM hivemind liking the same thing warrants a "WUUUUH?"

"how did they get our newsletter!?"

lol

hyphy hitz is a bunch of tracks from before this year isnt it? i thought that comp was weird. there were mixes and comps that came out before that did a better job of capturing the sound i thought

I didn't even know we liked Hyphy Hitz so much here on ILX. But it's good to know I'm in good company! :D

Those weren't "WUUUUH?"s. I just didn't know who they were and am happy to have them identified for me. Btw, thx jaymc on that.

the Amerie album couldn't NOT go in my top ten.

Also, J0sh Langh0ff posts on ILX. Or at least he used to, as "dr. phil."

Well, the comp came out in like the first week of the year, so of course the tracks on it were older. What hyphy comps do you prefer?

I had no idea re: half these people and their usernames vs. bylines.

Also, re hyphy. I liked the Ig'nant Mix did a good job of collecting Hyphy's exploding points, but Hyphy Hitz was like a fond look back at some big singles and a scene that shoulda been bigger. It just compiled it really nice.

I almost voted for the Pack EP.

Well, the comp came out in like the first week of the year, so of course the tracks on it were older. What hyphy comps do you prefer?

-- The Reverend, Wednesday, January 16, 2008 3:23 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

eh im not begrudging you voting for it, just explaining why i didnt really see the point.

I liked the slump and grind mixes, there was some 'bay bridge classics' comp i remember liking that i copped in the tower records sale ... i haven't really kept up w/ that stuff since tho

DaveM

You mean dabug, I think?

Bay Bridges is great.

xp: yeah, I think.

How'd my name go from 'Chris' to 'Christopher'????

Go Hyphy Hitz!

How did T-Pain do so much better than Akon in the artists poll? He got 12 or so votes to Akon's 1 (both from me), when to my mind they're pretty interchangeable. Is it cos T-Pain produces? Or has better hair? Or people are thinking "stay away from Akon the KONVICT"? Fucking moralizers!

I think it's more because Akon's ubiquity was mostly in 2006 and the early part of the year while T-Pain's was mostly in 2007. Also they are totally not interchangeable. Akon's more of a bland leading man where T-Pain is kind of weird looking but more obviously clever and funny and willing to take the Autotune thing to gimmicky extremes.

Elisabeth Vincentelli is from France. She wrote an amazing piece on the Eurovision Song Contest for The Believer, which was included in Best Music Writing 2007 and is arts editor of Time Out New York. (She also has a mix coming up in the Idolator Pop package.)

T-Pain is funnier, I'll give him that, but Akon bland? I mean, both guys have their bland songs where they just sing the chorus line or whatever, but "Blame it on Me" is demented! SO passive aggressive, I hate the guy but he's fascinating. I see what you mean about their respective seasons of ubiquity.

(xp)

thanks for doing your retarded arguing here fools and not on the goddamn site where i could at least make some goddamn money

i mean, uh, much love

We love you Jess.

castillian? what are you like her standard bearer? anyway if by eclectic & interesting you mean to say bizarro-world anglophilia then by all means rave away

sigh. She's actually a friend and the Castillian thing was in reference to your "i hope she's at least english" crack.
As for Elisabeth's tastes: you remember that Simpsons episode where Homer asks Darryl Strawberry if he's a better baseball player than he is and Darryl sez "Well... I don't know you... but yes"?
Well, I don't know you, but I feel pretty certain that she's got better taste in music than you.
And as long as I'm raving away: http://determineddilettante.blogspot.com/

like people are gonna get up and go argue somewhere else. sounds like work.

elisabeth has always been a bunnybrains supporter, so i'll stick up for her. she's tops! there.

do i really have to read jess's state of the lcd nation thing? can someone cut&paste the good parts. actually someone just start a thread with all the good parts in it. actually do that for every thread.

would you like a foot rub and pina colada too?

a thread with good parts in it = not this one

xxxxp: Al, I think you sell Akon short. What about his cool Africanisms that you'd never otherwise hear on the radio? Gah, I have a hard time defending him after "Sorry, Blame It on Me" is brought up, but I think there's a lot more going on there than you give credit for.

"would you like a foot rub and pina colada too?"

well now that you mention it!

Too kind, Al. Set up a booth at EMP offering that and you'll rake in the cash.

Well, I need someway to make back my plane fare!

Yeah, I was simplifying Akon a little bit, but that was mainly in comparison to T-Pain. Mostly I think I'm down on him because I liked his earlier, bleaker hits (Locked Up, Soul Survivor) more than the bright and/or "sexy" club pop he's been doing more the last year or so. And to the degree that he does have a personality, it's not a terribly likeable one (polygamist blood diamond profiteer who humps and/or hurtles fans in the middle of concerts).

can we return to pina coladas and foot rubs? We can all agree that pop music should be about them, figuratively or otherwise.

(polygamist blood diamond profiteer who humps and/or hurtles fans in the middle of concerts)

also has yet to tell the truth about his age

He's older than time itself.

Corsican! Not Castillian, Corsican! I'm easily confused.

This year I'm only going to do stats on the consolidation of the Idolator and Voice polls, so I won't have anything until after the Voice results go up.

Also, in response to a question way up-thread: My other ballot will answer your Tori question...

Also, I think Spoon may have been short-changed. I get 73 votes where the official tally has just 65. And I see only 128 votes for Radiohead, not 137. And 166 vs 169 for LCD Soundsystem. But I think those are the only ones where my tally differs from the official ranking by more than 2.

a thread with good parts in it = not this one

Good god, yes--I think the trauma-inducing results of this poll may have brought about a mild aneurism on my part; just ignore everything I posted on this thread then, thanx.

year's? wtf???

um i think this is a good thread

it's been...interesting.

there was some discussion of individual ballots that some people might not be interested in but some pretty good discussion happened i think

i'm not exactly sure what ppl were expecting with this thread then

Too much rap, not enough indie rock (j/k).

Ha, I read that the correct way out of expectation.

I have no idea what I just said. I need sleep.

jeez re vincentelli, i saw a ballot of uh innnteresting english pop picks from what google told me was the editor of timeout ny; given that that sort of warped tweeness is rife amongst certain americans was i not entitled to enquire as to whats up with that? if she's french then fair enough, french anglophilia not exactly shocking news, but god spare me all this insane "uh she's actually a friend" kneejerk captain-save-a-crit behaviour. thanks for the nonsensical insult too fuckface

Yeah! Get 'em!

re akon, most artists are bland leading men compared to t-pain really, he's a bit of an underdog people's princess laying it all out there. akon kinda has a detachment about him too though - like he might have TERRIBLE SECRETS. which yeah, a lot of african guys probably get and which yeah, is probably just his real age.

tsk even rev's clowning me now :(

lol @ him trying to claim he was 15 when "Forces of Nature" came out. But, he seems to have TERRIBLE SECRETS well beyond your run-of-the-mill age thing. Most African guys don't own diamond mines and deny the existence of conflict diamonds.

"Operations of Nature", rather

resisting... jungle brothers gag.... failing

BOY THIS IS JUST GETTING BETTER AND BETTER

what is it you'd even like to see on this thread matos?

more use of cliches like "capn save a whatever" for starters

It seems to me that this thread could do with some welcome skiffle input.

could we also get someone to complain about lack of world music in critics poll results? as pedantically as possible? that'd be great too.

i dont give a shit about world music but i do want to complain about a lack of racist MS paint drawings

a ballot of uh innnteresting english pop picks

Did Litmus and Anaal Nakrath really have pop hits in the UK? (I dunno, I'd say Vincentelli's ballot was one of the more intriguing ones I've seen -- space metal and High School Musical 2, plus lots of stuff I never heard of, including two singles with foreign-language titles -- but then I'm not British.)

^ truth, if strongo wanted some goddman money he shoulda earned it the oldfashioned way

xp

xhuxk - booty luv, chungking, bextor, akala and particualrly 'fling' by girls aloud (their most seaside knees-up effort, extolled by tom ewing) are hallmarks of uk poptimism surely

haha actually that's a barefaced lie, we all know the two french pop chansons are the real remit of the uk poptimist

lol at "akala" and "pop" in the same sentence

check that yelle song out tho

especially if you ever thought "fake uffie" was something you'd never say

Ugh Yelle. A nadir of something.

lol dom yeah i know but fuck explaining a shade of grey at this stage

tim you must have heard ga 'fling' right? HOW BAD? I ASK YOU

I got your back on this one man. Not enough to contribute to this abortion of a thread, but I got your back.
xp

i know you meant to say lol @ "chungking, bextor, akala girls aloud" and "pop" in the same sentence anyway, it's cool

I haven't heard the new Girls Aloud album so cannot join in i'm afraid. I can't even remember any akala tracks, although i guess that reinforces dom's point.

Perhaps some fans of no. 7 album by the National (which I bought, liked the lead track, and found the rest to pleasant enough but not especially invigorating rock. The Harp and Paste crowd loved that stuff though) can post here and offer comments that Matos does not find cliched or pedantic.

RTC, the Richie Spice track came out again on an album this year.

the national was great for those of us looking for new u2 tracks without all the delay. i liked it a lot.

Stats teaser:

With one precinct reporting, the most centric voter so far is Chris Molanphy, who voted for albums 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 16 and 20.

Kerry Dexter and Stefan Shepherd filed the only ballots that don't overlap with any others yet.

Only one voter did not vote for any albums.

Ha ha, Stefan Shepherd (who also claims to have been the most iconoclastic voter last year) only votes for music for little kids; that's pretty cool:

http://pop.idolator.com/341187/ballot-stefan-shepherd

I like his write-up.

thanks for the nonsensical insult too fuckface
Go ahead and tattoo that on your forehead, friend; it should serve as a good general warning for those unfortunate enough to talk with you over the course of your long, sad future.

x-post re kids music reviewer

Yea, it's interesting. Although, my kid is 13 now, he no longer listens to that stuff and I have not found the time to do so. My son likes LCD Soundsystem, Foo Fighters, and lots of rap singles but is not crazy about Dad's African music and reggaeton and salsa.

He will eventually come around and create 2015's neo-nu-whirl-trance sensation Coptic Reverse.

the Akala album sounded bad but 'Shakespeare' still great

ok forkslovetofu but besides casting world of warcraft spells at me do you see what i'm saying or not?

you're not saying ANYTHING

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r44/miguelitoz/1zdnlmo.gif

RTC, I'm a bit unsure what you meant also. Were you just curious about her background because of her Euro and UK oriented picks or were you criticizing those picks, or were you suggesting that where a critic lives should somehow affect what they list? RTC, you're a Brit who listens to Jamaican dancehall, American r'n'b and Brit grime, right?

Only one voter did not vote for any albums.

Will Swygart, amirite?

I would like to agree with Mr. Matos; the lack of international music ("world" music having become a cliché don't you know) surely not only shows the racist limitations of nu-crit and Internet "bloggie" reviewers, but also serves to further prove the famous Frere-Jones Axiom about the so-called genre called "indie rock." WHERE IS THE SOUL, PEOPLE? WHERE IS THE SWEAT, THE GRIT, THE GUTS? No Konono No. 1, no credibility...with me, anyway.

Hmpf!

Big corporations can find the world on a map, why can't rock critics?

St3ve Kn0pper (who?)

H'LO

WHERE'S THE JUJU PEOPLE THE JUJU

gimme a break, Matt. "pedantically" refers to curmudgeon's DJ Martian Jr. writing, not his tastes

jaymc: right, Swygart is the only voter who didn't pick any albums. Alicia Kachmar voted for Feist and nothing else, and Bill Holdship picked just Springsteen and Winehouse. Both could be cases of accidentally locking the ballot before they were through, although Kachmar also put in a comment, which makes that seem less likely.

Todd Burns didn't vote for albums either

Tinariwen are this year's Konono No 1 - we had a meeting.

Matos, I just do my DJ Martian list stuff here in response to the never-ending indie-rock listmania. If you're happy with Idolator's poll having less contributors than last year, and several hundred less than the Voice poll from 2005, that's your choice. Damn, I complimented you on trying to reach out, and expressed my unhappiness with folks who did not bother to respond, and then moved on, but you didn't. If you don't think trying to get Ed Morales from Newday to contribute, or Ramiro Burr from San Antonio, or various dance, metal, dancehall or whatever critics that aren't in your blog list, then I think that's sad.
So fine, let's move on and talk about Brad Paisley or MIA or something.

another x-post-
I was about to say I've read St3ve Knopper's writing in the Washington Post and elsewhere for awhile now.

I'm confused now, who is beefing with who?

er, with whom?

oh give up your knight in shining armor shtick for ten seconds. I sent ballots to about 1600 people, nowhere near that many responded, and that's life. would I have preferred more? sure. is moaning about it on a message board going to change anything? no. "whatever critics aren't in my blog list"? dude, seriously, fuck you.

i gave matos a long list of emails of rap writers i work with and i dont think any of them bothered to fill out a ballot

not matos's fault

that's to curmudgeon and only to curmudgeon, obv.

hold ya head dre fife, wally sparks & greg "gate$" davenport

lol american music critics in general

You wouldn't get this shit from a bunch of Playlouder writers, that's 4sure

I mean, do you really want to know how many fucking hours I spent sending follow-up emails to people, from how many email addresses, instead of doing actual paid work? for you to seriously insinuate I wasn't trying to get as many people as I could to vote in this fucking thing is beyond insulting. this is pretty much all I did for two months. really, Steve, get bent.

I'm sorry, and I gathered that you put many hours into this, but I didn't like some of your cheap shots.

So "Ticks" by Brad Paisley, novelty song or country fave that people will return to years later or both or neither?

why don't you start a thread no one else contributes to about it, Steve?

HEY ETHAN, WHERE'S THAT .GIF AGAIN?

fwiw, all the LCD, Spoon, & Battles songs that placed high, except maybe "You Got Yr Cherry Bomb" were singles. "The Underdog" even got a decent amount of modern rock airplay.

-- The Reverend, Wednesday, 16 January 2008 19:10 (Yesterday)

[If I may de-lurk for a moment]

"The Underdog" had a ton of airplay because it was the single serviced to radio stations. (I know, because I was assigned to write the review for my station's copy.) To the best of my knowledge, none of the other tracks received single servicing from the record.

Hi Maria.

damn this is getting awesome, and by awesome I mean ugly and not-awesome

and Matos I was going with your ironic joke, it wasn't a shot at anyone at all

STOP THE VIOLENCE IN BLOGCRIT

haha sorry Matt

I know "The Underdog" got some airplay, but any idea where it peaked on, say, the Modern Rock chart? I was trying to figure out, potentially for my Idolator corporate rock hobbyhorse, what the highest placing mainstream rock hits were in the poll, and divide the mostly-indie stuff that got minor AAA play from more mainstream rock hits (of which the highest placing song would be "Icky Thump" if it's not "The Underdog," which I personally never really heard on the radio at all).

xpost

Allmusic should tell you.

500

now this thread will get into the hall of fame

allmusic has billboard chart info? i had no idea.

Yeah, I've heard "The Underdog" on the same AAA station that played "Phantom Limb," "Dashboard," "Keep the Car Running, and "1 2 3 4," none of which I heard elsewhere on the radio.

I know "The Underdog" got some airplay, but any idea where it peaked on, say, the Modern Rock chart?

I'm not too sure. The single and full-length arrived at my station within two weeks of each other, so we went from playing the single to playing whatever we wanted. Tracking its placement may prove to be difficult if other stations were in a similar situation.

xp I'm surprised you didn't know that, Al!

AMG sez "The Underdog" peaked at #26 on the modern rock chart.

yeah i'm one of those people who was slightly befuddled by AMG's redesign a few years ago and just fell out of the habit of using it as a reference very often. I had a feeling "The Underdog" was somewhere in the 20s, thanks for confirmation.

Modern Rock placements of songs in the Idolator Top 40:

"Icky Thump" = #4
"Dashboard" = #5
"Thrash Unreal" = #11
"Young Folks" = #22
"Phantom Limb" = #26
"Keep the Car Running" = #32
"Rehab" = #32
"1 2 3 4" = #34

(In addition to Spoon, that is.)

Were there any other modern rock stations besides the one I listen to (Q101 in Chicago) that played "Stronger"? (They also, for what it's worth, played "Us Placers" for a few weeks last summer.)

no idea (didn't chart nationally, anyway). I dunno if any Kanye song has crossed over to mod rock in the way that "99 Problems" or "Hey Ya!" did a few years ago, although if any of them was gonna do it I guess it'd be "Stronger."

Kanye headlined WHFS's festival I think the last year before the station went under, and they played a few of his big songs leading up to that, but I think that was just kind of a blip.

Tracks in the poll's Top 40 I am completely clueless about (though I do remember Scott Woods mentioning Los Campesinos on ILM a couple weeks ago, and I've heard Jens Lekman's name bandied about too I guess):

24 Gui Boratto - Beautiful Life 15
24 Los Campesinos! - You! Me! Dancing! 15
29 Jens Lekman - A Postcard to Nina 12

As for Paisley, "Ticks" tied for 37th; his previous singles list success, "Alcohol," tied for 20th in Pazz & Jop in 2006. "Alcohol" is better, I think. But yeah, I guess the reason his singles get more votes than country singles that are a lot better (say, certain ones Toby Keith puts out every year -- "High Maintenance Woman" got 1 vote, mine) is because people perceive Brad's as novelties. Or something. (Even though Toby can be quite a laugh riot himself, not to mention a way better singer. Though I bet crits perceive Brad as less assholish.)

And I just noticed Maroon 5 tied for #37 as well; not sure if they've done that well before, or not.

Sorry, you're right Matos, 2 non-album voters. But that reminds me to mention that I get 452 total (including those 2), not 451, which is why I forgot about Burns.

That's some ugly data you had to deal with. It took me most of a day to get just the album ballots normalized. I don't know how you did your tabulation, but I'm guessing it was painful and tedious. And I mean no disrespect to your efforts when I say that I trust my figures over yours where they differ. I'd be happy to help you cross-check if you have any other data from your tabulation process. Not that it matters a lot to anybody but the mothers of the members of Radiohead and Spoon.

For comparison, though, here's my tally of the top ten by raw votes, with (my count / your count ):

LCD Soundsystem - Sound of Silver (166/169)
M.I.A. - Kala (143/141)
Radiohead - In Rainbows (128/137)
Arcade Fire - Neon Bible (77/77)
Spoon - Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga (73/65)
Amy Winehouse - Back to Black (72/73 from this year)
Kanye West - Graduation (68/67)
National - Boxer (65/65)
Panda Bear - Person Pitch (57/56)
Battles - Mirrored (51/51)

dude, you didn't hear ten songs better than "high maintenance woman" in 2007?

x-post

She's my baby doll
She's my beauty queen
She's my movie star
Best I ever seen
I ain't asked her out yet
'Cause I don't know if I can
You see a high maitenance woman
Don't want no maintenance man

it is 452--for some reason Phil Overeem's ballot wasn't published till he asked where it was. (I remember adding it but for some reason it got lost.) as for math . . . not today, please.

xp (Actually, "Alcohol" was '05, not '06.)

As far as I can tell (i.e., unless I missed it), Maroon 5 haven't placed a single in the Top 40 before. Not sure if that means they're gaining critical respect or not. (Their album tied for #356, with 20 points from two voters, so if they're gaining respect, it's happening pretty slowly. I've never remotely cared about anything they've done myself, but I'm sort of on their side nonetheless.)

you didn't hear ten songs better than "high maintenance woman" in 2007?

Not ten singles, nope. (I limited my "tracks" ballot to only singles.) But actually, it wasn't even my favorite song on Toby Keith's 2007 album. Still love it, though. (Kogan pointed out here a couple weeks ago that it sounds a lot like "Gypsy Road" by Cinderella, which might explain my loving of it.)

Nickelback's rockstar song, meanwhile, did twice as well as the Shop Boyz' rockstar song: two votes. I thought it'd do better! (I could've sworn "How You Remind Me" placed in the Top 40 a couple years ago, but glancing over the P&J lists at Xgau's site, I'm not finding it, so maybe it just barely fell short.)

http://www.robertchristgau.com/xg/pnj/pjres01.php

scroll to the bottom

Okay, so yeah, that's what I'd thought. Weird that one did so much better than "Rockstar" did this year.

"Makes Me Wonder" was Maroon 5's first #1, so it's got that going for them, besides the fact that I think it's way better than their previous hits (I voted for it, and wouldn't have for any of the first album's singles).

Weird that one did so much better than "Rockstar" did this year.

"How You Remind Me," like Three Doors Down's "Kryptonite" are cases of a band having a breakthrough hit by marrying self-doubt to a modicum of heavy swing. Both groups immediately lost the latter.

It might arguably be better than some of the shit beforehand, "Rockstar" makes me hope I never have to deal with the lighter side of Chad Kroeger again. I have Bon Scott and "Uptown Girl," don't really need the 2007 brand of angry white older men.

Actually, after hearing that new Scarface song about the trash he almost married, you can remove the word 'white' there.

xp I actually prefer "Photograph" myself (more self doubt, and their best melody), but again, I was under the impression that "Rockstar" was pulling critics in. Guess I was was wrong again. (I still think Chad's lighter side beats 99% of his heavier side, though. But he's no Joe Walsh, or Dr. Hook.)

And I don't think angry old guys are by definition any less entertaining than sad young guys (or happy girls of whatever age), but hey, that's just me.

(I also never thought of "Uptown Girl" or Bon
Scott as especially "angry" [or "older," at least in Bon's case] [hell, I don't think of Chad Kroeger as "older" either -- he's younger than me, I'm sure], but maybe I'm just not following your logic.)

Brutal.

massive xp

Can we talk about LCD Soundwagon (that's what I'm calling 'em from now on, thanks) winning the fucking thing for a minute or two? Doesn't anybody care? (At least try an' think of the nerdy children, for xgau's sake.)

Anyhow: Worst P&J/Idolator (yes, Virginia, it will doubtless top the P&J poll also) since Wilco in '02. Plenty of groove, not much personality; I'll stick with my decrepit Old Order CDs, thanks.

i'm surprised it ran away from m.i.a. like that

i'd be interested to see how the m.i.a./lcd break down by sex

Uptown Girl is loaded with fucked-up class/sex resentment under the Frankie Valli (who had plenty himself, part of why its an A+ tribute). Toby Keith's whole "you can deal with those college/rich dudes, but I have the dick you need" shtick is pretty similar (and I prefer "Who's Your Daddy," the new one's feels really rote and the titular hook is really corny). Bon Scott has more than his fair share of class/sex resentment, too, but way better humor, hooks, etc than Kid Rock or Chad Kroeger or anybody working that market these days. And I guess I'm not really hungry for more.

Yeah, I totally didn't expect LCD's win either. Probably I just don't run in the right circles. I'm still stumped about what people think is so great about them; I have nothing against them (sure as hell like them better than Wilco, for instance), but they seem really minor to me. Guess I'm just missing something.

And Kid Rock's album this year was really funny and catchy, actually -- a surprise, because I'd kind of written him off (though I'm not claiming he's Bon Scott, not like anybody else still breathing is, either) (and the album's also uneven, but big deal.)

"Who's Your Daddy" might or might not be among my ten favorite Toby Keith singles. But yeah, it's good.

i'd be interested to see how the m.i.a./lcd break down by sex

If I'm bored, I'll do this again.

yes!!!

only bcuz i think m.i.a. is way way way more popular with dudes than lcd is with women

xp I actually prefer "Photograph" myself (more self doubt, and their best melody), but again, I was under the impression that "Rockstar" was pulling critics in. Guess I was was wrong again. (I still think Chad's lighter side beats 99% of his heavier side, though. But he's no Joe Walsh, or Dr. Hook.)

And I don't think angry old guys are by definition any less entertaining than sad young guys (or happy girls of whatever age), but hey, that's just me.

-- xhuxk, Thursday, January 17, 2008 1:02 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

yeah, "Photograph" is my pick hit for the band as a whole, too. out of the 7 singles they've charted with for their last album at least one of them has been somewhere in my year-end list for each the past 3 years (all usually well outside the top 10 or even top 20, though). still overbearingly ubiquitous, but now and then i grudgingly accept one of their tunes as enjoyable.

xp i have no basis to this claim other than just a notion btw and being around college kids

"rockstar" is okay but idk i can't imagine the crowd idolator attracts a. liking nickelback that much or b. having the stones to put them in a publicly viewable top 10 list but maybe i'm just stereotyping

LCD Soundsystem was my pick for album of the year (post-techno Eno-rock, Murphy broadened his jaded shtick beyond "the scene" towards mortality itself, with better humor), but I definitely agree that they feel minor. But ALL music acts feel minor to me these days. The industry's in such a shit state, and all the acts have grown more and more niche oriented. I liked a lot of Kala but way more for the music than for her persona/lyrics (part of why it took me two years to get into Arular, which I now like more than Kala).

Obviously commercial success/attention/"relevancy" shouldn't be the decider of what makes great music, but it sure doesn't hurt. Without it, retreads are more obviously retreads. Individual songs and albums have definitely been devalued, both for individuals by the glut of accessible product, and on a broader scale.

Also, Scott Seward's piece about Divine Styler reminded me of an element I haven't heard much in music lately, and something that once meant a lot to me: an element of inexplicability. Maybe its just cynicism and overfamiliarity, but I don't hear a lot of music that intrigues me, even if I hear plenty I enjoy.

x-post all the kid rock lyric quotes in reviews and articles about the album were just really ugly - "i want to fuck you like I'll never see you again," "she's younger and twice as hot" that kind of thing. Nothing actually made me want to hear any of the songs.

if there's anything like "I have to smoke three joints just to mow the lawn," nobody wants to share it.

"rockstar" is okay but idk i can't imagine the crowd idolator attracts a. liking nickelback that much or b. having the stones to put them in a publicly viewable top 10 list but maybe i'm just stereotyping

-- J0rdan S., Thursday, January 17, 2008 1:18 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

it may be a stereotype, but it's also just about right. i mean, just see above where it was demonstrated that the only real Active Rock format band in the top 40 tracks was the predictable ol' White Stripes.

Poor Finger Eleven.

terrifying song

"Paralyzer" predictably got only 2 votes, one of them mine, and one of them Bill Lamb, who has possibly the most pop (not teenpop, not poptimist, but POPULAR U.S. MUSIC) ballot of the whole poll: http://pop.idolator.com/342025/ballot-bill-lamb

If active rock put out anything resembling a fun rock song that wasn't about how some girl isn't providing poontang, I'm sure there'd be a positive reaction. My kingdom for a "Panama," you know.

I mean, why SHOULD critics prefer a glossed-up, nipple-pierced "Poison Woman" song over pretty mumbly gibberish?

saying they aren't /= saying they should

At least fans of hardcore rap have some liberal guilt they can bait. And better beats.

x-post okeydoke

Anthony, you'll say these Kid Rock lyrics are "ugly," I'm sure, and you'd be right, but I still don't think I heard a funnier song all year (and it rocked as hard as anything I heard, too):

http://www.metrolyrics.com/lowlife-living-the-highlife-lyrics-kid-rock.html

I hear music that intrigues me every day. (But then, I never found Divine Styler as inexplicable as Scott did in the first place. Wish I still had the album, though -- I used to own it on double vinyl! But I mean, the more music you hear, the older you get, music is going to have a harder time seeming like something entirely new and weird you haven't heard before. That doesn't mean it can't surprise you.)

Inexplicable was exactly how discovering M.I.A. felt two/three years ago or so, and I'm a lot older than you, Anthony, so I doubt age has much to do with it. Over-famialiarity with the ins/outs of pop music, on the ohter hand, yeah, probably.

As for me saying LCD seem "minor," it's not a criticism -- lots of music I like more seems way more minor than LCD -- it's just that I don't expect music that seems minor to me (in a way, say, M.I.A. or Kanye or OutKast or Dylan or Radiohead don't) to walk away with a poll like this. Usually the consensus leans toward acts that seem like Bigger News (whether I like them or, more often, not.)

Also, Wilco felt WAY more major back in 02 than LCD do now. So how'd they win? Revenge of the blogerrati, methinks.

Wilco had backstory in 02, there really wasn't a hot one this year.

Not Radiohead??

blogeratti, even. ugh.

xxp

That's why I expected R-head to win.

Radiohead's about as good as it gets, and if anyone suffers from "usual suspects" its those guys.

Over here, LCD's profile is way, way higher than Wilco's ever was.

It was the clash of slightly bigger sophomore albums by artists' whose debuts were also (critic-wise) a big deal, and none of them really had new backstories. At least for the 3 of the top 4 that weren't Radiohead.

Since when did popularity on ILM decide these things?

xp

I'd say Amy Winehouse had a bit of a back story, too. (She doesn't seem minor at all to me, even though I basically can't stand her.)

Most of the albums I liked this year were by established acts who made albums I slightly-to-greatly preferred to their previous. Which at least is better than if they were all albums I slightly enjoyed less than their previous.

x-post in the same vein, Britney Spears' backstory obviously helped her!

plus (and im probably stereotyping again) lcd and m.i..a are just weird and/or varied enough to crossover to people who vote for liars or deerhunter or studio, but also 'mainstream indie' enough to crossover to ppl who vote for just wilco, the shins and the new pornos (not to mention that they make those types of ppl feel like they have a finger on the pulse)

Amy probably would have won ten years ago, though.

xp

Ionnis - I meant in Britain, not on ILM.

Amy might have won if she'd been able to do some decent gigs here

here meaning america, of course

no way

I think a heightened profile in the US outside of tabloids would have at least improved her standing.

a-ha.

xp to Matt

I'd say Amy Winehouse had a bit of a back story, too

haha - I thought this said "a bit of a hack story."

a VMA performance would have given people something other than a grody-ass pic on Gawker to think of when they picture her.

Yeah, any of the singles after "Rehab" charting the slightest bit in the U.S. probably woulda helped. (xpost)

Whenever I think of here, I think of her bloody shoes. :/

amy winehouse and curt schilling, united forever in the collective american consciousness under category: "bloody feet"

http://www.snarkygossip.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/kirsten-feet-2.png

"bloody feet" kill thread dead! news at 11.

I was just thinking about that thing someone said the other day about Kirsten Dunst looking like Billy Corgan with a wig.

http://img.search.com/thumb/9/9a/Billy_Corgan.jpg/285px-Billy_Corgan.jpg

yikes

Who has time to listen to new music any more? I think I've only heard about 10 albums from 2007.

yes, but can you list them in order of preference, please!? i just need to see one more list!!

Patience... I'm building suspense till the ILX poll comes out.

Theory: All music is minor these days.
Evidence: CD sales falling 15% each year. Increasing balkanization of pop. IPod vs. FM radio. Blogs vs. Rolling Stone.

Theory: New music has to compete with old music as never before.
Evidence: Oink. Any album ever recorded available on-demand. Every kid can be an obsessive with a 10,000 album collection.

Theory: Most albums that win critical affection these days are "record collector" albums - ie., they are a gourmet blend of impeccable influences.
Evidence: LCD Soundsystem (Eno, Talking Heads, Chicago house, techno) vs. MIA (dancehall, Timbaland, Bollywood pop, the Clash, Pixies)

Fact: None of which means shit to my 13 & 15-year-old Nirvana/Linkin Park/Green Day/Eminem nieces.

er, there should have been a worshiping somewhere in there.

I'm surprised Matos gave them a ballot.

hey, he's cool that way.

Fact: None of which means shit to my 13 & 15-year-old Nirvana/Linkin Park/Green Day/Eminem nieces.

-- Ioannis, Thursday, January 17, 2008 3:07 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

OTM, myopic internet bubble strikes again.

How many human beings were actually on Oink? Tell that shit to the people in my Florida hometown who still call the record store every hour asking "HEY WHO SINGS THAT 'ROCK STAR' SONG?"

I'm talking mainly about people who vote in these polls. If they weren't on Oink, they've probably used some other p2p system, or they may be old-school obsessives with the warehouse-size collections pictured in that other recent thread.

Theory: All music is minor these days.
Evidence: CD sales falling 15% each year. Increasing balkanization of pop. IPod vs. FM radio. Blogs vs. Rolling Stone.

I really don't get how this "evidence" supports this "theory". (For one thing, there have always been clearly major acts who never sold many records, at least for the last 40 years or so. And the marketplace has been fragmented even longer than that, and it's not not like Rolling Stone and Creem [or Maximum Rock'n'Roll, or Forced Exposure, or etc.] saw eye to eye on stuff years ago, either.)

Yeah, i'm with xhuxk on this, people acting like slow sales means less people are listening to music or less people listening to the same music is just oversimplified and forgets so many factors. If there was any possible realistic way to measure it, I'm pretty confident that there'd be as many, if not more, people listening to more music than every right now, and still plenty of records that millions of people are all listening to at once.

I'm talking mainly about people who vote in these polls

But people who vote in these polls have never really been the ones who make acts seem major in the first place.

I mean, maybe once upon a time Marsh or Bangs or Christgau or Tate helped, say, the Ramones or Patti Smith or the Clash or Grandmaster Flash or Public Enemy seem major, but I'm not even really convinced of that. Rock critics don't seem all the responsible for OutKast to me, either. (Radiohead? Well, maybe.)

Or Nirvana? I dunno, it's a chicken and egg question. Seems to me that rock critics are reacting to major-ness more than creating it, but there may be some historical exceptions, come to think of it.

Well, there are different ways an artist can become "major". However, part of that, I will submit, is cultural relevance - does someone resonate with the larger culture, outside the small niche of music obsessives? In that sense, Britney Spears is more major now than she was when she was selling millions of records. However, she is not really a musician any more - she is a cultural icon - so I don't think she counts. I'm trying to think if today there could be another equivalent to Michael Jackson at the peak of his success. Someone changing music and resonating with popular culture at large. I don't know if we could. It seems like the artists who win these polls are talented craftsmen & craftswomen with large record collections - they appeal to the trainspotters. The average casual music listener wouldn't recognize 90% of the influences - but that's kind of the point - as a shibboleth for the music-erati.

rock critics made Radiohead stay major (or seem like they were still major maybe), but they certainly didn't make them major in the first place.

I'm talking mainly about people who vote in these polls.

I wasn't on Oink because I get records sent to me for free, duh.

Most critics I know weren't on Oink because they didn't want to get caught uploading records.

I've never even seen Oink. (But I do have a pet Guinea pig, if that counts.)

I've never been on oink or any other filesharing service. Well, napster for like a week back in the day.

However, she is not really a musician any more - she is a cultural icon - so I don't think she counts.

#33 record of the year begs to differ!

Don't get too drunk on the power of your voting bloc, dude.

Meantime let me add again to the praise of Rich Juzwiak's mix essay. And the mix itself.