Velvet Underground - Live at the Gymnasium 1967 LP???!!!

...and it's a buy it now item for 21 pounds?

fuck, not any more :(

those tracks are fantastic.

yeah, both "booker t" and "guess i'm falling in love" are awesome on the peel slowly set. if this stuff is anywhere near that quality, then this is about as close to a holy grail as it gets for VU fans these days. i've never understood the full story behind that -- where did those recordings come from (they hadn't been bootlegged before, i think) and why hasn't the whole thing been released? seems like an obvious choice for the (seemingly now defunct) bootleg series they started with the Quine Tapes way back in 2001.

buy that shit

I tried!!!

me too -- no dice. ah well, if it's genuine, i'm sure it'll be floating around the net in a couple minutes ...

wait, doesn't he have seven copies still for sale? or those are all gone too:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/THE-VELVET-UNDERGROUND-LP-LIVE-AT-THE-GYMNASIUM-1967_W0QQitemZ170194375060QQihZ007QQcategoryZ43715QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

i wanna hear that sister ray

There are multiple copies available.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170194375060

I don't know, I'll probably kick myself later for not picking this up, but the whole thing seems fishy. 100 copies...on green? does that mean there are other copies, in other assorted colors? Why does this guy have so many copies? Does he own the label? What label is it? etc

FOR THE 1ST EVER THE GYMNASIUM GIG IN FULL,WITH UNRELESED SONG,IM NOT A YOUNG MAN ANY MORE, AND 1ST TIME PLAYED SISTER RAY,ONLY 100 COPYS ON GREEN
PLEASE NOTE AM A WAY TILL 17 TH OF FEB LPS WILL BE POSTED THEN,THANK U

c'mon.

ONLY 4 LEFT YOU BETTER MAKE UP YOUR MIND

hahaha, but, yeah, dude is probably selling all 100 sloooooowly but surely. then the purple vinyl batch will be next.

lol purple vinyl

guys i am considering buying this but i prob shouldn't cause i'm broke and dude looks scammy

Yeah no kidding, Hoos, this is hurting me in my heart right now.

will chip in $1 to group purchase/rip

Well I've been looking and it does appear to qualify for Paypal buyer protection if you use a Debit/ATM card to pay for it. Unfortunately I just blew my last wad of cash on another expensive LP so I can't do that right now.

Don't quote me on that though. I'm gonna do some more reading of the legalese, here.

No, I see the problem now. This whole thing is a total risk no matter what you do.

"Unfortunately I just blew my last wad of cash on another expensive LP so I can't do that right now."

*New Order bootleg - Bernard guaranteed to sing in tune or money back*

Heheh!!! No actually it was an ultrarare LP of Boston post-punk bands, all live versions I believe. I'm crazy about this band called the Maps who only released one single. But never mind!

only 3 left!

so tempting, but it looks like the "unreleased song" is probably "Booker T.". Tracklist:

A1 I'm Not A Young Man Anymore ("previously unreleased")
A2 Guess I'm Falling In Love
A3 I'm Waiting For My Man
A4 Run, Run, Run
B1 Sister Ray ("1st performance")

not gonna pay 50 bucks for yet another version of SR. although it is exciting that this gig has surfaced, and I hope the sound quality is similar throughout to what has already been released.

ATTHEGYMNASIUM who has that interview where he said he saw them play there, there was basically nobody at it and they were really into using echo?

ah well, if it's genuine, i'm sure it'll be floating around the net in a couple minutes ...

This just went up on dime, except for the officially released track.

Sourced from the vinyl boot.

you can get it here:
http://sendmedeadflowers.com/2008/02/velvet-underground-live-at-gymnasium.html
sounds like the real deal! eep! i've been waiting like 15 years to hear this ... haha. i am a nerd.

this is awesome! "I'm Not A Young Man..." is a totally unheard-of and previously unreleased classic Velvets song, like a banana album outtake.

I heart the internet.

I've listened to 80 seconds of this and I'm in heaven

Yes!! This is incredible. You've made my weekend with that link, tylerw. Thanks!!

Wow, this is awfully good.

this is awesome

i hope this link is not deaded by the time i get home to dl

thx tyler btw

also worth noting that afaik this is the only known live Velvets material from the year 1967, and the only live recording w/Cale featuring banana songs other than the Columbus 1966 tapes. also the last known live recording with Cale. in other words, a history/archive junkie's dream.

ohhh yesssssssss ... this is about as good as i hoped. and i hoped it was very good. easily the best Cale-era live recording, maybe one of the better sounding VU boots overall. sheesh, this is great! Sterling Morrison sounds like a maniac, Reed shreds on Run Run Run and the Sister Ray starts off kind of straightforward but gets nuts ... hurrah!

this is awesome, thanks for the link tyler. lou sounds like he's about to vomit during the choruses of 'run run run'. loving the guitar noisery on that track as well

Oh hell yes

Wooo!

i'm a waning vu fan but this is fucking great

Thank you for the link!

no problem everyone -- though you should really thank the dude who put up the link!
listening to this it strikes me that when people compare a band to the VU this sort of thing is not remotely what they're talking about. this gymnasium recording is like super-raw, off the rails R&B with Hubert Selby lyrics. Awesome stuff obviously, but i can't really think of a so-called Velvets-inspired group that actually sounds like this ...
Any bets on whether in the next year there's a "deluxe" version of White Light White Heat released with this as the bonus disc?

Sister Ray is kickass

This is fantastic. It completely made my Sunday morning.

lol, you said Sunday Morning

see what I did there?

thanks

i wonder if lou reed listened to this now if he'd think to himself, "why the fuck did i scream 'SOCK IT TO ME' before every solo?"

more like "why don't I still?"

Wow.

"I'm Not A young Man Anymore" is . . . phenomenal

tyler...I think some of the ohio stuff, like the Mirrors and the Bizarros often did. Sure they were noisy and a bit arty, but essentially its just a basic rock-n-roll to the extreme but not quite the extreme of the stooges more of a frustrated extreme.

yeah, you might be right -- those mirrors recordings are raw malevolent rock n roll for sure. and what's funny is that I'm pretty sure those guys SAW the Velvets around this time -- didn't one of them record that La Cave bootleg? I wonder if that's the key difference -- bands inspired by the VU who saw them live and bands inspired by the VU who only heard the records ...

that makes total sense. Myth or not, I always held to the stories in From the Velvets to the Voidoids about how VU played the most in Boston and Cleveland and had tons of influence there, and I think both the Modern Lovers and Mirrors have that influence.

:):):):)

God, the solo on "Run Run Run" is BLISTERING!

SOCK IT TO ME

Lou Reed would be totally justified in yelling that out before his solo there. Throw Mingus in, shouting "YEAH!" over and over, too. And a choir of crooners chanting "c'mon, baby". Damn, it's great.

very nice

yes--this is great. and here i thought i was done w/ VU bootlegs!

I hovered over the 'buy one' button, I admit.

Sister Ray version better than the album version imho

Nah, wouldn't go that far, can't hear Mad Johnny Cale for a start

... possibly one of the reasons why Cale wouldn't release these tapes?

I just have to say the Velvets are all I've listened to for the past week or so. Bringing me back to buying tapes of the 2nd and 3rd records in middle school. I started with the 3rd, I remember thinking, this isn't so weird! Then one night lying in the dark with headphones on finally getting to The Murder Mystery. I know that song is generally considered a lesser pretentious effort without Cale and all, but I think it's fucking amazing and it scared the hell out of me. As did the operation part of Lady Godiva's Operation.

I just have to say the Velvets are all I've listened to for the past week or so

I'm about to follow suit!

Shakey Mo is off-the-mark

last night at 1 am I drove down to brooklyn to pick my girlfriend up at a bar and blasted Sister Ray (LP version) at top volume. A nice New York moment.

haha, yeah, i don't know if I'd go as far to say this Sister Ray is better than the album version. But all of those live Sister Rays are worth seeking out! The three on the Quine Tapes and other versions on various bootlegs are insane -- always different, always awesome. This is the only live Sister Ray with Cale though as far as I know.
But yeah, Dan, this is sending me back to all of the VU records. Good to be reminded how great they all are. It's been said a gajillion times, but they really were something special.
And hey, this is a great time for VU bootlegs -- in the last couple years, there's been the "At The Factory" recording, the VU & Nico acetate and now this. All we need is the recording I think Sterling Morrison talks about of "Sweet Sister Ray" that may or may not actually exist.

The thing about the Quine Tapes' Sister Rays is that the longer they get the better they are!

Btw, does anyone know where The Bootleg Series: Volume 2 and more are? The Quine Tapes are vol. 1, so I was expecting more to follow... :-(

Maybe Live at the Gymnasium is Vol. 2? Why would these tapes leak out now?

... record companies being fairly porous organisations after all

MIke from Chemical Imbalance/Yeti who occasionally posts here put an 18 minute track called Sweet Sister Ray/Sister Ray on a CD-r he gave away I think. Almost all of it sounds like Sweet Sister Ray, it definitely doesn't kick into a long version of Sister Ray. It's pretty lo-fi but pretty great. I'm also a fan of "The Legendary Guitar Amp Tapes".

Maybe Live at the Gymnasium is Vol. 2? Why would these tapes leak out now?

Good point, hope it's true.

There's more to come, this version of "Guess I'm Falling In Love" is different from the one Cale released before

last night at 1 am I drove down to brooklyn to pick my girlfriend up at a bar and blasted Sister Ray (LP version) at top volume. A nice New York moment.

This is why I think you're great, Dan.

She's a femme fatale.

Damnit when that woman starts her harmonium.

Nico

I rarely if ever have the time-time these days. (Though for entirely different reasons than the song's.)

listening to this over the weekend drove me to break out the Quine Tapes too

when i first listened to this i fell in love with mo tucker all over again.

Sister Ray version better than the album version imho

Yeah I'd argue with the others that you'd want to hold your horse is on that. It takes this version some time to get up to speed, though at the end it's certainly gotten going.

The *only* other flaw I can name is how Lou's slurring the chorus in "Run Run Run" what's that about?

eh tbh I really don't like the album version of Sister Ray all that much

yes I am aware this is total blasphemy and no I am not saying it just to annoy people... I like the chugginess of this version, it doesn't really start to lose shape until the very end when Mo goes into this broken Bo Diddley beat thing - in the meantime sonically there's lots of great stuff going on, weird washes of feedback, throbbing bass tremolos, etc. I prefer it to the more spazzmo LP version.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/THE-VELVET-UNDERGROUND-LP-LIVE-AT-THE-GYMNASIUM-1967_W0QQitemZ170197186012QQihZ007QQcategoryZ43715QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Down to the low low price of £12.00; no mention of green vinyl or limited copies, though.

Hmm, he's shortened his previous blurb about it to "FOR THE 1ST EVER THE GYMNASIUM GIG IN FULL,WITH UNRELESED SONG,IM NOT A YOUNG MAN ANY MORE, AND 1ST TIME PLAYED SISTER RAY". Cleaned it up a little, see.

no mention of green vinyl

No mention, true, but if you look at the picture really close, I think there's a sliver of green on the right side. I think that might be the record. So he hasn't unleashed the purple copies yet, I guess.

for the record, as I'm working the rest of the week and commuting, I'm filling my 1gb ipod shuffle with nothing but The Velvet Underground.

This is great. But you knew that!

What's that "At the Factory" mentioned upthread?

Bootleg from 2005 (download link @ partage-facile in the comments here still works, use the rar password mentioned in the main article)

Velvet Underground - At the Warhol Museum 1966-01-03
Recorded by Andy Warhol just a week after the German actress Nico had arrived in America. This tape features what may have been the first musical collaboration between her and the Velvet Underground. The tapes feature many casual moments of unstructured jamming common to rock band rehearsals. Most of this material falls in line with what can be assumed to be influences of the key members; Older Blues, R&B, Rockabilly etc. However, there is one time on the tapes when either Lou Reed or Sterling Morrison can be heard playing the lead intro to "Day Tripper" by the Beatles. While this may seem like a standard today, it was a 4 month old song when the tape was made. On Track two, Lou Reed can be heard teaching lyrics to Nico while the rest of the band plays in the background. The lyrics are to the song "Venus In Furs." Track 11 features the whole band with Nico attempting to sing the song "There She Goes Again." They try several times to find a key that suits Nico's voice. Nico tries many times to vocalize lyrics that prove to be too fast for her broken English to master. These problems evidently were never solved, as the song appears on the first album with Lou Reed singing lead - not Nico.

Velvet Underground - At the Warhol Museum 1966-01-03 The Factory, New York City
01.walk_alone
02.venus_in_furs-crackin_up
03.instrumental
04.miss_joanie_lee
05.day_tripper boom boom boom boom
06.rockabilly_instrumental
07.instrumental
08 heroin
09.there_she_goes_again
10.green_onion
11.there_she_goes_again
12.heroin
13.i'll_keep_it_with_mine
14.european_son
15.get it on time
16.i'll be your mirror

The great mystery of the Gymnasium recording is where's John Cale? According to Chris Stein (later of course of Blondie) who played in a support band at that gig:

" I had never expected to experience anything like that before... I was really disappointed that they didn't have Nico, because we thought she was the lead singer, but I distinctly remember the violin and their doing Venus in Furs because a couple of people in dark outfits got up and started doing a slow dance with a chain in between them... There were maybe thirty people there. It was very late, but it was a memorable experience..."

Surely the viola or keyboards ought to be all over 'sister ray'? Was he absent like Nico? Maybe the recording is falsely attributed to 1967 - which is of course the grail year for VU bootleg fans.

'Waiting for my man' is I think weak, but otherwise a total delight - attribution questions aside.

Who is singing along with Lou on "Run run run"? John, Doug or Stirling?

Interesting thread on a VU forum about this, by the way - Feb 6: someone posts a rumor that the tapes and more Quine Tapes are imminent. Feb 9: link found & posted - next: pandemonium (were the two shows taped by Jonathan Richman? Does someone have a DAT with the other show on it and are they going to post it?)

What the? The VU live tape scene is very alive, apparently.

September last year: 4CD Boston Tea Party box set?

( "The Boston Tea party shows were scheduled to feature as part of the "Bootleg Series" before the Quine tapes surfaced - I understand that the original tapes had been mastered and were ready to go. These could indeed be from that source." - on that same forum)

yeah, Oliver Landemaine bought "Sweet Sister Ray" from me, back in the day.

I did look up on there for the LP as mentioned uptop, but nothing.

The tapes feature many casual moments of unstructured jamming common to rock band rehearsals.

"The musicians create sounds with peculiar looking tools knows as 'instruments'"

Yeah, it wasn't written by a writer :-)

Archive damaged on the VU @ the Gymnasium link. :(

Try again: It worked for me.

What are the other VU bootlegs worth listening to? I guess I listened to that legendary amp tape quite a lot a while ago, but I'm not sure that anything else grabbed me all that much that I've heard.

the quine tapes are a blast but just be prepared for their lo-finess

its all good really

The great mystery of the Gymnasium recording is where's John Cale?

no mystery to my ears. the bass runs on "young man" are pure cale, the backing vocals on "run run run" sound like him. you can hear a keyboard on "sister ray" towards the end, its just very low in the mix (the only thing i'm disappointed about on this tape). no viola, but then none of these songs had viola on them anyway.

xpost

yeah, you tend to get used to the bad sounding ones after a couple of minutes. Musically they're all worth it. (avoid the post-Reed 1971-73 ones though)

my fave VU boots:

Caught Between The Twisted Stars 4CD (the whole 1966 Columbus show and a ton of other great stuff)

Etc. LP (early Reed/Cale singles and stuff that later wound up on V.U.)

And So On LP (Loop flexi and other ephemera)

Sweet Sister Ray's Murder Mystery CD (the whole 40-minute SSR plus other 1968 La Cave tracks)

then I'd have to go with that 4CD Boston Tea Party set.

And let's not forget "Live at the Town and Country"

Of course, the "End Cole Ave" boot is the best place for 'newbz' to start.

yea, isn't that one most of the 1969 Live 2LP with actually improved sound quality over the official release?

yes.

There is also a "The First Night" but I get the impression it's less 'necessary'

"First Night" is not as good a recording as the "End of Cole Ave." bootleg (from whence a good chunk of "Live 69" is drawn). It's got some good stuff, though, like a version of "Pale Blue Eyes" with beautiful guitar work from Reed and the country version of "I Found A Reason."

I thought most of Live 69 came from the "Matrix Tapes" ?

the country version of "I Found A Reason."

aka the music to nico's "these days"!

gymnasium show fucking RULES btw

They are a bit rough sounding, but the later '68 shows -- like Cleveland in October and Boston in December -- are great and LOUD. "Move Right In" sounds amazing, "Waiting For my Man" is slow and creepy (in a good way), and some of my favorite versions of "What Goes On" come from here (the Peel Slowly box used one from October 68 in Cleveland I think).

And So On LP (Loop flexi and other ephemera)
This one starts off with a version of "Guess I'm Fallin In Love" from a different Gymnasium date than what's on this new LP or on the Peel Slowly box. Cale played the tape on a radio show in the late 70s.

I thought most of Live 69 came from the "Matrix Tapes" ?
I think a little more than half comes from the Matrix, and the rest from End Cole Ave. Confusingly, they'd edited intros from one set and then the actual song from the other one on a few tracks.

the reason The First Night used to be an important boot was that it included four 1970 demos that turned up later on Peel Slowly ("Countess Of Hong Kong", "I Found A Reason", and two more I forget).

"I'm not a young man anymore"...

haha *wink at Scott Seward* heheh

All I know is I am on holiday in NYC and starting to be drunk and I am going to play Velvets all night.

This Gymnasium shit is sounding pretty TIGHT so far, too.

It's nice that even now unheard songs by the VU can be found...

Mark G! Good to hear from you!

But I ask all of ILX...what ELSE DO YOU NEED FROM ROCK AND ROLL than "Guess I'm Falling In Love"?

Because I don't fucking need a goddamn thing from rock and roll besides that. Get on board this train with me, man. Are they not the shit? Is this stuff not the shit? Are they not the one and only band who could outdo the Stooges? Or should we (god forbid) do a Velvets vs. Stooges poll?

Oh god, I should be careful what I wish for.

Step awayyyyyyy from the poll page..

I have done so for some time.

HAHAAH you guyz...

I would like to thank this thread for turning me onto Velvets boots I would have not known about otherwise ("Walk Alone" is killer, for starters). The truth was that at the time this thread happened, I just wasn't in the mood for the Velvets. But I always knew I'd come back.

I <3 ILM.

"Joanie Lee" from the 1966 Factory gig!!!!!

Never heard this song before. Can't believe my ears, I've got that "goosebumps in my stomach" feeling, thanks ILM. Srsly. Don't know where I'd be without you guys.

Anybody tried the repost of the Warhol Musuem(Factory) set? Wondering about all those complaints in the comments section re original downloads.

The Legendary Guitar Amp Tapes March 15th, 1969

101 i can't stand it (5:49)
102 candy says (4:25)
103 i'm waiting for my man (7:04)
104 ferryboat bill (4:36)
105 i'm set free (4:51)
106 what goes on (7:39)
107 white light white heat (7:35)
108 beginning to see the light (5:28)
109 jesus (3:28)
201 heroin/sister ray (34:25)
202 move right in (4:15)
203 run run run (14:20)
204 foggy notion (7:09)

Oh okay, since you twisted my arm....

i <3 intarnet

Velvet boots are the way and the light.

The first track on this, a version of "I Can't Stand It" strikes me as the sexxx.

I get a "user identity invalid or using bad browser" (paraphrase) error. I'm using IE 7, is there something else I need to do?

stop using internet explorer?

New/ recently discovered Velvet boots have given me more "wow! This is incredible" music kicks in the past year than most new releases I've heard.

Warning: the guitar in "Waiting For The Man" on this will cook your skull. Watch out.

No, but the way it goes into "Sister Ray" from "Heroin"...oh noooo....holy shit, if this isn't godhead I don't know what the hell is.

YES

Thanking you

No, but the way it goes into "Sister Ray" from "Heroin"...oh noooo....holy shit, if this isn't godhead I don't know what the hell is.

OTM. tx for posting!

Anyway, I don't think the first half of that Legendary Guitar Amp Tapes posted above is any good. You can't even hear the vocals, it's dreadfully boring. The latter half of it is where all the good stuff is.

I would also like to share that this other boot dated 1966.01.03 (who knows if that means Jan 3rd or March 1st?) that says it came from "The Factory, NYC, rehearsals" is absolutely ESSENTIAL. Does anyone else know this one? Mind blowing.

Glad you said that, Bimble. I gave it half a listen, and the half I listened to was the first half. Then I forgot about it. I'll check out the other half tonight then.

There is a version of Booker T. & The MG's "Green Onions" on this Factory 1966 thing. I cannot believe my ears right now. I cannot believe my ears.

Also there is a version of "There She Goes Again" on here that has Nico on it. IN. FUCKING. CREDIBLE.

have you all heard the various stuff available from the matrix boot? it's tangled up in some label wrangling, i think, but i remember hearing a really stripped,l sort of noise-free twangy sister ray and a couple of other things that had been posted online.

Nope, I don't know the Matrix Boot. Sigh. My work is cut out for me...

No wait..are you talking about the Quine tapes thing that was already released? I already have that.

mmm, i don't know what i'm talking about. but i think not the quine tapes. it's something that was under discussion on a velvets forum, and came amid labels fighting over the record and lou saying that there'd be no more live velvets releases forthcoming. there might have been a version of heroin?, maybe, and a few others, but i remember sister ray, twangy in the way that the first lp stuff on live 69 is twangy and kind of rockabillified. it faded out after seven minutes. it was pretty great. i'll try to find out.

Searching For My Mainline

i'm downloading something called the matrix tapes? anybody know anything about this? I remember back when the Quine tapes were released some dude showed up saying he had sbd tapes of the same shows ... but wanted a buncha money for them? maybe this is them? would be rad. i'll keep you posted!

please do!

that's the one with a reallll nice twangy restrained sister ray, right? easy to hear and understand etc. i had an eight minute version that faded out, i think because it was being drip fed in leaks etc until someone agreed to release it. jazzed if it's the whole thing.

nope looks like this is a sampler -- 30 minutes worth of songs that are faded out ... some of these are the same performances as the Quine Tapes, but in vastly better sound! Wow. Great version of "There She Goes Again" ... I'd guess these are from the same source as some of the Live 1969 release. URGH. Please someone get the whole thing! Sounds incredible.

sounds like it might be the same version of "Ocean" from 1969 ....

guitars sound great here. always nice to hear more Sterling Morrison.

oh man come on, someone email Lou Reed about this, jesus christ. not releasing this and the gymnasium recording is just dumb.

great Lou intros here ...

schlump, yeah this is prob the same thing you heard -- the sister ray starts out verrrrry slow and quiet. About 8 minutes worth. Really, here's what the powers that be should do -- expanded versions of the Live 1969 records. The End Of Cole Avenue stuff and this stuff. It'd sell ... thousands?

anyone who needs to hear this: http://www.shorttext.com/pbgtyr

eee, the sister ray starts shredding ... and then fades out.

can't they do some rhino handmade thing with this stuff? except not overpriced and ridiculously limited.

ha, yeah, that'd be nice. It is too bad that the VU Bootleg Series was such a nonstarter -- the Quine Tapes were pretty well done. With the Gymnasium Tapes and these Matrix tapes (not to mention the VU&Nico acetate and that 1966 rehearsal), it seems like there's plenty of good-sounding material for some record label to put out.

Wow, this sounds amazing. Too bad about the fadeouts and the further silence (timestamp on these files is from August 2008, nothing further has come from this?) :-(

when i stumbled across this stuff, on some velvets forum a few years ago, there were whispers that it wasn't coming out because lou just didn't want to release any more archival max's-esque velvets remnants. it's a pity.

yeah, i imagine that's the case -- i remember being surprised that Lou would authorize the Quine Tapes. Lou is all about looking forward, you know? Never looking back. Except to tour on Berlin, a 30 year-old album for two years ...

but in case i haven't made it clear -- haha -- these Matrix tapes sound incredible. It's a shame they're just sitting with whoever owns 'em. Ah well, I assume someday they'll be put out in their entirety.

Damn these recordings indeed sound fantastic. Moe just sang "Hello you're my very special one" for me...

yeah! and lou's intros are ummmm super-gay? so good.

country sissy ray yes yes!

interesting that these tapes have had such problems coming out -- the John Fahey and Sandy Bull live discs released in the past four or five years are from the Matrix. I guess I'm assuming that those tapes come from the same person who has the VU tapes? Maybe not? Man, I wish I'd been alive to just hang out at the Matrix in 1969!

On Sister Ray,I like the guitar figure that starts around 2:55.

yeah! sterling morrison! the guy was a machine. the stereo separation between his and lou's guitars is sweet on these recordings. please, matrix dude, release these tapes!

http://i40.tinypic.com/350t2s8.jpg

I Keanu Stand It.

Irritating that these fade out! Never heard that intro bit from Lou before.

OMG this Matrix stuff sounds incredible!

FOR REAL

Okay, I've got this now and I've only just begun to listen, really, but holy god just the sound of his voice and what he says...I can't explain the way he makes me feel sometimes. Like I'm in a desert and he's the purest water. I'd say it's like swooning, but it's beyond even that. And the sound quality is amazing. You feel like you're right there in the room.

I'm surprised more people didn't post about this, really.

Also if Mark G. happens to be around - I didn't forget that Moe Tucker album you recommended me, I just have yet to listen to it.

It is really weird that there's not more about it on the internet (at least not easily findable). The sound quality is just ridiculous.

It reminds you that not only could Lou Reed once sing but, even more unlikely, he was once charming too!

No wonder he doesn't want it released!

I do feel that when we die, those of us that want to hear the whole of this will be able to. I don't believe in God, you know, but...if this isn't a holy grail I don't know what is. I find it puzzling that Cale's viola is not on Black Angel Death Song...was he out of the band by this time? I don't really know. Don't care either.

I did something really foolish last night, something I truly wish I had not done that got me in an awful lot of trouble. But a big part of the reason I was moved to do it was hearing the first part of this. A kind of passion overtook me and I paid a high price for that.

this is from the same month of shows (sometimes the same shows) as the Quine Tapes, so it'd be Nov.-Dec. 1969, with Doug Yule in the band. "Serious times," as Lou says. If I'm not mistaken, the "Black Angel's Death Song" is the same performance as the Quine Tapes in waaaaaaay better sound. And I think the "Ocean" is the same one that appears on 1969: Live. Otherwise these seem to be all unheard tracks. It is strange that there isn't more talk about this on the net -- just a few things here and there, but nothing particularly concrete. I emailed the guy who does this site http://olivier.landemaine.free.fr/vu/ to see if he knows anything, but haven't heard back.

of course, i'm genuinely surprised that Universal or whoever hasn't rush-released the Gymnasium show ... I remember hearing talk of a deluxe WL/WH a long time ago, but there wasn't a whole hell of a lot to put on it. Gymnasuium would be a perfect bonus disc.

of course while I'm researching, i'm discovering some unknown to me things like "Dispatches From The Dream Factory," a bootleg set released last year. Lot of stuff I've already got, but some I haven't heard (esp. on disc 3). Can't find a working download online though. CURSES.

DISPATCHES FROM THE DREAM FACTORY

3CD, Scorpio GPS9, -, May 2008

Disc 1: Erupting Plastic Inevitable: 1. Walk Alone (2:25) / 2. Miss Joanie Lee (11:50) / 3. Heroin (6:21) / 4. There She Goes Again I (3:12) / 5. There She Goes Again II (4:25) / 6. Get It On Time (2:21) / 7. I'll Keep It With Mine (3:40) / 8. European Son/Susie Q (4:12) / 9. Heroin (6:26) / 10. Venus In Furs (4:30) / 11. Waiting For The Man (4:11) / 12. European Son (8:54) / 13. All Tomorrows Parties (5:54) / 14. Heroin (5:16) / 15. Venus In Furs (3:23) / 16. The Ostrich (2:32).

1-5: rehearsals, Andy Warhol's Factory, New York City NY, January 3, 1966 / 6: rehearsals, Andy Warhol's Factory, New York City, NY, March 7, 1966 / 7-8: Film-Makers' Cinematheque, New York City NY, February 6, 1966 / 9-13: Scepter Studios, New York City NY, April 1966 / 14-15: Poor Richard's, Chicago IL, June 23, 1966 / 16: The Primitives 45, 1964.

Disc 2: The VU From The Bandstand: 1. I'm Not A Young Man Anymore (7:19) / 2. Waiting For The Man (5:29) / 3. Run Run Run (6:55) / 4. Sister Ray (18:55) / 5. Sweet Sister Ray (39:42).

1-4: Gymnasium, New York City NY, April 1967 / 5: La Cave, Cleveland OH, April 28, 1968.

Disc 3: Warlocks Decapitating: 1. We're Gonna Have A Real Good Time Together (2:34) / 2. Ride Into The Sun (3:44) / 3. Sweet Jane (6:12) / 4. I Can't Stand It (9:29) / 5. Sweet Bonnie Brown (4:55) / 6. It's Just Too Much (3:11) / 7. Heroin (8:26) / 8. Some Kinda Love (4:07) / 9. Sweet Bonnie Brown II (5:39) / 10. Lisa Says (2:44) / 11. That's The Story Of My Life (2:03) / 12. Candy Says (4:03) / 13. Jesus (3:36) / 14. Sunday Morning (2:54) / 15. Waiting For The Man (6:16) / 16. White Light/White Heat (5:45) / 17. Ocean (4:18).

1-2: demos, late 1969 / 3-10: rehearsals recorded either at the Matrix or Family Dog, San Francisco CA, November 1969 / 11-14: End of Cole Ave. Dallas TX, October 18, 1969 (original first generation transfer) / 15-16: San Francisco CA, November 11, 1969 / 17: Lou Reed demo, Winter 1970.

Glossy slipcase fits over jewel case. Comes with 20 page booklet. Tracklisting on Disc One is wrong: there is actually 16 tracks (3rd track Heroin is omitted).

Disc 3 track 7 Heroin is actually an audience recording version of the track available as bonus on the official 1969 Velvet Underground Live CD Volume 1. Disc 3 track 16 White Light/White Heat is edited from an audience recording version of the track available on 1969 Velvet Underground Live.

"Dispatches" is on Dime, with 4th disc, no less.

with *a* 4th disc, that is.

urgh, what's on the fourth disc? i can't do Dime, actually.

Whoops, sorry to upset you. It looks like what he was calling the 4th disc was actually the artwork file for the 3cd box.

I can't even find a copy to buy :-( (unless all these Japanese sites a Google search throws up are all stores, but I don't know)

Ok, this explained a bit about the Matrix stuff:

http://akson.sgh.waw.pl/~kg23187/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1243&start=0&hilit=abrams&sid=28ec1a08cddfa9da37f671ca2443711e

ah, cool, that fills in some of the blanks ... seems to be at a standstill though. :( this guy had that Dispatches set up but the links are dead: http://onurlar.blogspot.com/2008/12/blog-post.html
i bugged him to re-up, you should do the same!

I did! :-)

I found my copy of "Take No Prisoners" yesterday, hray.

Woohoo! Let us know if you decide to play it, Mark!

I also posted on that dude's blog to re-up the VU set (specially part one)

yes, let's hound him til he puts it back up! surprised it's not elsewhere ...

here's a lil more from the dude who owned the matrix, way back around the time the Quine Tapes were released. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/11/18/PK118582.DTL
ugh, if i haven't made it clear already, it is killing me that there is a DAT of all this stuff sitting in someone's desk ... guh.

from the forum link above:
Bill Levenson from Universal said (in 2003)

"FYI #1 - The Matrix tapes are probably not going to happen - the owner of the tapes withdrew his offer to license them to us, which is too bad because they were very impressive!"

Yeah and I'd give him a blow job anyday, too. God, what needs to happen for us to have this shit?

Come on, I'm just addressing the hardcore VU fans right now. What do we do? Honestly, aside from sexual favors, what do you think is the best course of action for us to take to get this stuff in our ears? Asking u honestly

really don't know -- seems as though the Bill Levenson dude is the one who handle VU archival stuff. That was way back in '03 when he made that comment -- don't know if anything has changed in the intervening years. I guess this guy Abrams who owns the tapes has some very specific demands, and maybe expects a lot more than any record company would shell out. But since he's so demanding, it's not the sort of thing he's going to just leak to the internet.

though i would love for him to prove me wrong

so here's what the whole thing would be:
The Velvet Underground
Late November - Early December 1969
The Matrix, San Francisco CA
Sampler

Tape 1
1. Intro (2:32) [previously unreleased]
2. Waiting For My Man (4:22) [same as Quine 3] 27/11/1969
3. Heroin (3:50) [same as Quine 2] 23/11/1969
4. Black Angel's Death Song (3:36) [same as Quine 3] 23/11/1969
5. Venus In Furs (3:15) [previously unreleased]
6. There She Goes (1:55) [previously unreleased]

Tape 2
7. Rock & Roll (2:51) [same as 1969 and Quine 3] 25/11/1969
8. Sweet Jane (2:22) [same as 1969]
9. Ocean (1:57) [same as 1969]
10. Heroin (2:31) [same as 1969 (vol. 2)]

Tape 4
11. Waiting For My Man (2:39) [previously unreleased]
12. Set Free (1:44) [previously unreleased]
13. After Hours (1:40) [previously unreleased]
14. So Kinds Of Love (2:07) [previously unreleased]
15. There She Goes (1:21) [previously unreleased]
16. White Light (1:40) [same as Quine 2] 01/12/1969
17. Venus In Furs (1:45) [same as Quine 2] 01/12/1969

Tape 5
18. Over You (1:46) [same as 1969]
19. Good Time Together (2:04) [same as 1969]
20. Beginning To See The Light (1:55) [same as 1969]
21. Can't Stand It Anymore (1:51) [same as 1969]
22. Sister Ray (7:44) [same as Quine 2] 03/12/1969

i think the times there are the truncated "sampler" times

FEEEEEL THE FRUSTRATION

sez VU scholar Sal Mercuri: "This is without question the best sonically sounding live VU in existence. The performances are brilliant as well."

WILL GIVE BLOW JOBS FOR VU BOOTLEGS

JUST SAYING

What crazy amount of money could Mr. Tapeman want that Universal wouldn't give him? A million dollars? That's only 10,000 fans willing to pay 150 dollars (or is 50 for manufacturing + label profit not enough?)

ok, 10,000 worldwide, I have no idea if that's a reasonable number of people - anyone know how badly the Quine Tapes sold? (since there hasn't been a part 2 I'm guessing: not very impressively)

no idea how much the Quine Tapes sold, but yeah, it's hard to imagine him being so delusional that he would become a millionaire with these tapes or something. Might be something still lingering over the fact that they used his Matrix tapes for the Live 1969 release way back when without paying him? Maybe he wants back-royalties for that.

I'm still pleased that the "End Cole Ave" set exists, and I was 'brave' enough to send my money off to a suspicious address based in Italy, and actually got one by return! That's Faith and Hope right there!

Sister Ray on this Gymasium thing, my GOD. Please email me Mark G. and tell me what the hell you are talking about. Thanks.

ha, yeah, i have the end of cole ave. on CD-R but i do kinda wish I had bought the actual bootleg when I saw it in a record store on St. Mark's back in the mid-90s. At the time, $50 was way beyond what my parents were willing to front me for that kind of thing. It's got like the purple velvet cover? or something?

You know what? Radiohead can go eat a basket of fruit, I'm so sorry.

What are you gonna do, at 5 AM when it suddenly occurs to you that Bimble has more VU boots than you, which means he is more goth than you? What are you gonna do then? Huh?

xpost yes.

I did see the double LP version at a record fair once. That had less tracks, but a purple velvet cover also.

There was that 'First Night' version a bit later, but I didn't feel the need. Probably should have...

Well, I'll just console myself with my EndColeAve, "Searching for my Mainline", my memories of meeting Moe and Sterling, and about a year later, having the VU play my favourite London venue with my best girl right there with me.

That's what I'll do.

"First Night" is great, but not nearly as good sound-wise. There's some very worthwhile stuff on it though.

I had a subscription to "What goes on" magazine, back in the day.

I did have one of those "Afterhours" tapes, also.

I have approx six versions of the VU album:

UK mono (pre-banana)
US Stereo, banana 96% intact
Oh, and the rest...

I don't think I have this End Cole thing yet. Looking for it...thanks.

dunno, if all these links are active, but this might blow your mind, Bimble: http://indieducky.com/spotlight/the-velvet-underground-intricate-brilliant-outerworldly-rock/

Yeah, but which one am I supposed to download? See I'm trying to download End Cole right now, and I have this vague memory of having it before, but other than that, I need nice sober people like you who like to do the research and lead a Bimble to the good stuff. Thanks.

Also sorry I tried to mess with ya'll and say I was more goth and all that. I know Mark G. will beat me on the VU love every time.

end of cole ave. is the unedited show that makes up quite a bit of Live 1969 -- though there are a bunch of songs that aren't on that release. importantly, a killer sister ray. though is there any other kind?

another important thing about End Of Cole Ave is that it is from the same tapes as 1969 Live (for the most part), but for some complicated reason that I forget the bootleg is at least one tape generation BETTER in terms of sound quality. So it's a bootleg of an official release (which I guess is technically pirating or counterfeiting) with better sound quality, which is a rarity in the bootleg world.

yeah it does sound better than the official release -- as does this matrix sampler thing (some of the matrix tapes were used for Live 1969 as well).

I know, dudes, I'm downloading it right now. Trying to catch up. Bimble is slow, but give him a break, thanking u.

Some of those links on indieducky don't work - here's a couple of other blog posts with links that don't all work, but if you tried to download something there and it didn't work, you might want to try here:

http://yourmothershouldknow03.blogspot.com/2007/11/velvet-underground-ultra-rare-trax-vols.html

http://sonzeirananet.blogspot.com/2009/03/velvet-underground-discografia.html

Whoah, thanks so much! That'll keep me busy for a while!

It's quite a mess though - most of the links unzip to folders like BTS-1-3 and the files are called "02. track 02.flac" :-/
So it'll take quite some sorting & looking for tracklists and stuff.

Beggars can't be choosers

Yeah that's to bad, see, I said it would keep me busy. What's the greatest online resource for VU-bootlegs like that?

http://olivier.landemaine.free.fr/vu/ , I think. Tylerw mentioned it earlier in the thread.

yeah, lots of detail but no audio.

Tells you what you're getting though. What I want to hear is a studio "Ride Into the Sun" with Lou on vocals.

What I mean is a vocal version of the instrumental "Ride Into the Sun" on "Another View", could be Doug on vocals

Thanks Stan. It will take some puzzling, but maybe with that site it's possible to figure it out and tag it all correct.

http://olivier.landemaine.free.fr/vu/bootlegs/singles/vu45b_velvet-1.jpg

Isn't that, on this? (i.e. a studio "Ride Into the Sun" with Lou on vocals

Gerard, that site helps, but not for all of the bootlegs. (check the LP tracklists too, sometimes)

I found a couple here as well (e.g. the Soundville! Pre-VU one) : http://bugelmuc.beepworld.de/vuloureed.htm

and NOW I find out that the Boston Tea Party was a venue and not a one-time show! I always thought, yeah, I have that show, but there's like ten different shows out there... :-(

They probably played the Boston Tea Party more than any other venue!

Yeah, I've been ignoring recordings from all of those shows for years because I already had "it" - dammit.

VU torrents: http://www.velvetunderground.be/

if you need that "Ride Into The Sun" with vocals, shoot me a webmail thing, I can dig it up and send it to ya.

Go Henry! http://onurlar.blogspot.com/2008/12/blog-post.html

All three links are already down :'(

No wait! I had to click on the pic! Yay! :)

Ugh... no, that's only the picture :'((((

don't think he actually got the new links up -- seems to be trying to use mediafire ... but he seems to be responding at least!

Keep up the good work, boys!

Ah I see Tyler

Yeah, maybe my "Go Henry" wasn't exactly clear - I just noticed he had heard us and was trying :-)

Your 'Thanks! You rule' indeed made me think the links up there were the new ones :) But I've joined the ranks of praising the man for his efforts!

ok the matrix tape have not been released ... but this made me chuckle. http://www.gibson.com/en%2Dus/Lifestyle/News/robert%2Dplant%2Dalmost%2Dbeaten%2D414/

tyler I have your CDs in front of me, but I can't mail them until Monday, sorry.

no worries!

I cannot help it if Lou Reed is the sexiest being who ever lived on this Matrix thing. I cannot help it. That is not my fault.

I will try to play this Cole thing and be quiet, but I really believe that there might be peace on earth if we could only have all of this Matrix thing for our ears. Maybe the human race could be better than its ever been. Maybe the light will shine into our eyes. Maybe Lou will save us. Little children will laugh and smile, and it will all come together.

Who needs the Beatles?

Never mind that, Beatles needs the Who?

Hahah...woah...Never mind the Bollocks who needs the Who OR Beatles??

Okay, not trying to be disrespectful here, but I need some clarification. I'm listening to End Cole, but it appears the first track is exactly the same as the Live 1969 thing. Is that what I'm listening to, but there is more on here? Thanks.

Live 1969 is made up of tapes from the End of Cole Ave. (a Texas club) and the Matrix (in San Francisco). So there is some overlap there.

details here: http://olivier.landemaine.free.fr/vu/discog/lps/usa/lpsusa.html (scroll down)

and here: http://olivier.landemaine.free.fr/vu/bootlegs/cds/bcds.html

by the way, just listened to the Gymnasium recording yesterday while painting the basement. Still sounds incredible.

haha, still painting, huh? I start on the kitchen tomorrow. I will put that record on!

STILL PAINTING. We have a baby on the way this summer, so there is suddenly a lot to do. Listening to bootlegs helps.

ok you all will laugh at me but despite having listened to the VU for uh almost 20 years, I'm only now listening to Live 1969 for the first time and it's absolutely great: the take on "Ocean" is terribly gorgeous and the "Heroin" is sad and lovely. I suppose this is what I should have expected given the album they released in 1969 but I'm really impressed and would like to know: where next? I've had the Quine Tapes since they were released but never listened but will next (I know, I know, I'm terrible, have just been waiting for the moment and it's arrived) and I have the End Cole Ave boot also. What are the next steps? There are recommendations re. boots above but are they still the next step?

Well, I'd say the next step is the Gymnasium album.

Past that, hmm I think you have it.

the gymnasium album described in this thread is CRACKING xp

I have that too...I've er accumulated VU relata a lot faster than I've had the desire to listen, for many years...until now.

You've got "VU" and "Another View" I take it?

yes, and Peel Slowly and See....basically I'm looking for a way into the boots, or at least asking if the greatness displayed on Live 1969 is evident on the myriad boots you all talk about.

Yes! tylerw is the man for the boots though.

La Cave 1968.

yeah La Cave is great -- the weird, alternate lyric Pale Blue Eyes is crazy, and it's got my fave version of "Foggy Notion" I think. I'm in the process of putting together a "best of" from the recent Professor Tapes thing that surfaced (1969 at the Boston Tea Party) ... As far as Cale era goes, the Gymnasium tape is your best bet, though the At The Factory rehearsal tape, the Melody Laughter show and the VU & Nico acetate are all worth hearing.

True enough.

There's a massive cassette tape set called "The After Hours Tapes" that is worth a review (i.e. look-over), I did get one of them via mail-order back in the day (the one with all the demos on it, speed corrected, etc)..

am also a fan of the legendary guitar amp tapes

i don't know if this is where you're getting these boots already but: thenunsareontheseawall.blogspot.com
a little bit ridiculous tbh

yeah, guitar amp tapes are fun. sweet sister ray too, that's a good one. maybe not the greatest thing in the world, but I was enjoying the Max's Kansas City rehearsals recently. even though the VU w/o moe tucker is barely the VU, it's still a kinda cool sounding band.

(i am actually a bad person to ask about this -- I think it's all great!)

ok, I will get the La Cave 1968 set.

can I just say that the single version of "All Tomorrow's Parties" on Peel Slowly disk 2 is terrific? The build up in the first 30 seconds or so is just perfect.

xp er yes I have become aware of that blog but it is bewildering, hence my note earlier today!

the La Cave show is where the live What Goes On on Peel Slowly comes from ...

that take is sweet!

where does the "Ocean" on Live 1969 come from? Or maybe more importantly: are there other takes like that? liftoff, man...

Making me want to listen to 1969 right now.

That "Ocean" is from the Matrix shows, I think. If you dig around for a show called "Retinal Circus" on that blog, you can get the complete uncut set w/ a bunch of highlights from Live 1969. That great "What Goes On," a few others .... Kind of nice to hear the whole thing, w/ an enthusiastic audience.

ok then I am there! I like the VU-as-Dead, or maybe more like VU as jazz: I mean when they're exploratory within songs, reaching liftoff without losing a core of the song.

If you can find it there is a show with Nico called "EPI/1966", from the Valleydale Ballroom, Columbus, OH. It's not as good as the other stuff mentioned, but the Nico stuff is understandably the rarest.

so the Sweet Sister Ray boot is the one with 4 versions of "Sister Ray", from 1968 and 1969?

the Sweet Sister Ray boot has the "song" Sweet Sister Ray on it, which is more of a loooong, slow jam, recorded with Cale at La Cave, I think. It's cool, if not quite as awesome as the title might suggest.

ok, yes, that's the one I've found---cool, thanks!

It's not a bootleg, but the mono version of the first LP is amazing: Heroin in particular is terrifying.

apparently this just came out (which has the mono version + singles mixes): http://www.amazon.com/Velvet-Underground-Nico-Rarities/dp/B003CLAN9C
Cheaper than buying the "deluxe edition" ...

Swee Sister Ray is imo the single most essential VU live boot track.

"Sweet"

I am also a big fan of La Cave 1968 and the Guitar Amp tape, and as noted the Gymnasium is a must-have as well.

yeah? i like sweet sister ray a lot, but have to admit being a little let down by it the first time I heard it. It was one of those bootlegs that I'd *heard* about for probably ten years before actually getting a copy.

with a little w33d and nothing to do it really opens up, I use it like ambient music. but I can see how years of hype might end up being a bit of a letdown.

ha, guess i can see how that would be a good stoner record ...

man i still haven't heard the quine tapes what is wrong w/ me

its supposed to be good iirc

Quine Tapes are worth it for the three Sister Rays alone

And the slow "Waiting For The Man".

listened to the Gymnasium boot yesterday and yeah, it's great: the "Sister Ray" is hilarious because after about 10 minutes or so, it sounds like it's about to end, but it's got 8 minutes or so left. By the end it's just feedback + Mo pounding as savagely as I've ever heard her, until she tries to hit a Bo Diddley beat and the whole thing falls apart. Fantastic!

So on this Hilltop bootleg there's a ridiculous "Sister Ray" at the end (that I gather is not from the Hilltop show but rather from La Cave), and the organ is pretty remarkable. Which leads me to ask a naive question: who is playing organ in these performances? Is it Doug Yule?

He's a man of many talents!

yeah it's Yule on organ on the post-Cale bootlegs. He's pretty amazing! I mean, the guy joined the band in fall of 1968, and a couple months later he's raging as though he's been there all along. been said before, but he deserves more credit than he gets.

La Cave is, I believe, the first show with Yule.

ok while I have you guys' attention:

so I'm confused about what I "need" next (I'm really digging this foray into VU bootdom). I've read you all talk about the Boston Tea Party 4-cd set, the Legendary Guitar Amp set, and the Professor Tapes. Are these all different? They all seem to be related to the Boston Tea Party in 1969. Help!

Apparently a WEEK after the last shows with John Cale!(xp)

They all seem to be related to the Boston Tea Party in 1969

They played there all the time

Boston Tea Party set and the Professor Tapes are pretty much the same -- the Professor Tapes recently surfaced from the master reels and are in way better quality than those shows have circulated in. Guitar Amp Tapes is another Boston Tea Party show (not recorded by the "professor" i gather).

*pretty much the same shows* i mean

Great site for VU obsessives