the term 'boogie' as referring to early 80s post-disco R&B, C or D

I have never heard that term for that particular subgenre before - certainly not when it was out at the time.

hey instead of bitching about herbs who listen to this stuff can we just talk about early 80s post disco r&b??

It kind of makes sense as a musicological thing i guess if you use it to refer to uptempo dance music from the 80s that doesn't have disco's 4 on the floor feel but also doesn't sound like its a post-george clinton thing either. Its coming out of disco but doesnt have the same rhythm. On soulstrut there was a discussion about this and they talked about how that Logg record was 'the first boogie album' because it was a disco record that broke away from 4 on the floor.

who's bitching?

+ there are already a bunch of threads about 'post disco R&B' on ilx that i've participated in while you were busy talking shit about me listening to microhouse or whatever instead of rap

http://www.discogs.com/release/547163

^^^^^^^^e this mix is great, highly recommended
just dont buy it directly from the dj or you might not ever receive it

7 Gwen Guthrie Seventh Heaven (3:21)

<3

i think it's a weird term, and even weirder that in the context i usually hear it, it works as a subset of "modern soul" which is a pretty silly designation as well, IMHO.

Rightly or wrongly, I link the term "boogie" with the tail-end of the London rare groove scene, circa 1988-89, when the music had moved on from early to mid-1970s JB-style funk to late 1970s/early 1980s post-disco/jazz-funk (as played by Norman Jay on his weekly KISS FM show, in pre-legalisation days).

The first time I was made aware of the term was when my sister and her friends - who were all very much part of that scene, Africa Centre/KISS nights at The Borderline etc - started raving about a various artists comp called Boogie Tunes, and its Vol.2 follow-up.

http://www.discogs.com/release/663695
http://www.discogs.com/release/1217259

So for all I know, that might even be where the term was coined....

There's also a case to be made for the terms "rave" and "drum and bass" originating from the same scene. My sister talked about going to KISS FM "raves" in 1987, meaning special one-off events (with a musical policy that had zero in common with what became known as rave music), and stripped down tunes like "Definition Of A Track" were being referred to as "drum and bass" circa 1989...

I don't know the source, but I've been using the term Boogie since the mid/late 90s, it certainly pre-dates the term "post-disco R&B". It's really the only term that describes a certain kind of music, generally late 70s early 80s but also slower then disco. There were disco and funk cuts in the 70s using the term. FWIW, there was a movie called Roller Boogie in 1979, maybe that's where it comes from. The tempo for music played at roller skating rinks is generally slower then regular disco, so a lot of that music was referred to as Roller Boogie Disco.

cool, but just to be clear 'post-disco R&B' isn't meant as a 'term', like i said i've only heard people refer to it as 'old school' or 'dance music,' i just said 'post-disco r&b' to make it clear what i was referring to

should really be 'post-disco uptempo danceable R&B' i guess

Hmmm... "Boogie Oogie Oogie" and to a certain extent "Boogie Nights" sound like boogie, whereas "Blame It On The Boogie" and "Boogie Wonderland" sound like disco...

or just "boogie" should suffice!

xpost

its kind of hard to talk about the use of the term 'boogie' only by using the term 'boogie'

esp when its also used to describe other kinds of music, as in this thread:
Boogie

I had never heard this word in connection with this type of music, but I can tell you that BOOGIE is one of the finest words in the language and your ability to say it unselfconsciously will increase your happiness (and though this might be true of all words, I am not the keeper of your selfconsciousness)

Is there another thread on the recent rise of this style of music that I could check out? I've always been a fan and i would like to see some of it made more available (...i seem to recall a youtube link thread?!?)

c'mon deej. How about Boogie Disco?

For the people who use this term, it's pretty much a given and it's understood. If I'm talking to a DJ and say what are you gonna play and they say "boogie", I don't get ready to go out on a friday night by staying at home and listening to 1940s piano music.

Like any term, Boogie Disco's got fluid borders and includes slower disco, electronic funk, uptempo danceable R&B etc, but like any other term, you know it when you hear it.

ok, i understand that. im not arguing that its wrong or something. im just interested in the origins/uses of the term. i know that its djspeak, i just dont think that many other people use it that way

if i tell my girl i listen to boogie she'll have no idea what i mean, but disco she understands

when people ask what music im listening to, i dont tell them "oh boogie of course!" and then have to explain what boogie means. i think my original association with 'boogie' is like some 50s rock and roll piano music or something, and thats probably still true for lots of people

deej you're just misunderstanding everytime someone calls you bougie

bougie music is my favorite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SraRU5oD17c

When I was getting into disco, DJs were already just using the term Boogie in the "slow disco" context, and that was, as mentioned, mid/late 90s. I'm guessing it may have derived from Roller Boogie as a genre.

Aha, here's an excellent article from the the ever-reliable Greg Wilson, who also pinpoints the term to the South East of the UK in the mid to late 1980s. Turns out that those 1988 Boogie Tunes comps that I linked above were actually put out by KISS themselves.

http://www.discopia.com/portal/issues/current/Gregwilsonboogie

Everybody wants to be bougie bougie.

bougie-ougie-ougie

by A Taste of Ashford & Simpson

I too had reservations about this term and it didn't catch on for me as a while. Now I use it though. Not a perfect genre name, but useful as shorthand. But I can't stand when people make giant distinctions between all of these "genres" that are by no means disparate. "Yeah ... I like some disco ... but what I'm really into now is BOOGIE." Meanwhile, in my head, I just call it all "disco" or "house."

This is a good comp that's (mostly) of stuff that I think of as classic "boogie," btw:

http://www.discogs.com/release/242177

although there isn't any D-Train on there.

i totally want that soul on the grill mix

Yeah, everything on that Kenny Dope mix, and everything that sounds like it, gets mentally filed as boogie to me.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51BR1YZN2NL._SS500_.jpg

Hear the Freaky Trigger collective discuss the concept of boogie with guest speaker dave q.

Definitely a British term, and I believe the people making the music at this time all called it "funk." Anytime the lyrics references the music or the feel of the music, it's "we got the funk", "I'm gonna give the funk to right now", etc. The word boogie at the time was probably more associated with a very mainstream disco sound, ie "Boogie ooogie ooogie", or "Let's boogie!".

Anytime I play boogie out, I usually get comments like "man, you sure are playing a lot of '80s funk!"

This is definitely my favorite music ever btw, and I think the growing popularity of it might now give me an excuse to make like 100 dj mixes of this shit.

when people ask what music im listening to, i dont tell them "oh boogie of course!"

oh im def gonna start saying this and then refuse to elaborate - itll really simplify things and i just like the enthusiasm.

OH [/I]BOOGIE[/I] OF COURSE!

oh boogie :(

i play tons of the shit, i call it "boogie", "disco boogie", "80's r&b", and maybe even other terms pretty interchangably. there is also a subset of it that i call "electro boogie" which is pretty self explanatory. this shit is my favorite dance music ever, no matter what you call it.

i love love love this shit

http://www.discogs.com/release/564594

good one

that destination boogie thing is very awesome too

yeah ive been noticing boogie getting big props here in sf the last year or so.there's a dude in la on stones throw records who has been digging specifically for this boogie sound for years. he has a very popular night in la and his mixes are ridic. Here's a link to the one he made for Stone Throw and its big on the raers. It's called Dam Funk's Boogie Funk.

http://www.stonesthrow.com/jukebox/

I've never heard it called "boogie" before (hey, to me boogie is Foghat, and I never heard "electro" called "electro" in the early '80s either), but this thread has nonetheless inspired me to take this album with me when I DJ in Brooklyn tomorrow night:

http://www.discogs.com/release/229611

For whatever its worth, in a c. 1980/1981 Boston Phoenix piece on Vaughan Mason, the Strikers, Unlimited Touch, etc., (one of the greatest pieces ever about the stuff) Michael Freedberg called the music "strut." I'm not sure whether he invented the term then, or it was otherwise common at the time.

Nick Straker I associate more with Linx, the Quick, Junior (who has songs on a couple mixes upthread), but I just thought that stuff was called "Brit-funk."

Freedberg also used to refer to a certain kind of slow, pre-house, spun-late-at-night '80s r&b stuff as "sleaze"; can't think of examples now, though.

Oh, there's a sleaze disco thread on ILM, I think Freedberg even posted on it.

Brit-Funk: there was a Soul Jazz comp of all that stuff - Hi Tension, Heatwave, Freeez, Imagination, etc. I think it fits in pretty well with Boogie.

Sleaze Disco

shanghai version: Shanghai club scene - "Sleaze" music

UK Jazz Funk is often a lot faster and more minimal than boogie. I can see why some of that stuff, some of the classic stuff like Hi Tension could crossover w/ boogie, but when you think of UK Jazz Funk like Freeze's Southern Freeze, Atmosfear, Powerline-Double Journey, Francine Mghee Delierioum, it's all a bit more wigged out. Hard to explain, but in the "know it when I hear it" I find most of that stuff pretty different from Boogie. Actually I guess Imagination totally fits. I think I came into UK Jazz Funk from the side that interested me most, which wasn't necessarily the Shakatak R&B/disco side but the almost post-punk side, ACR of course, but that aforementioned stuff.

That's true about the early British stuff being more 'wigged out'. I think part of the reason for that was the standards of musicianship in Britain being generally inferior to those in America, particularly in the most important area - the drums and bass. Speaking as one who was there at the time and actually had a hand in this stuff, I loved the steady grooves of your typical American disco-funk record - from Chic to Slave to whatever. However when I played the drums it always came out a bit more rushed and jittery. You can hear that in most of the early British records. Second Image's 'Can't Keep Holding On' is a bit steadier but still feels like it's pushing.

As I say, it's largely technique, or a lack of, but I wonder also if the mood of the times (punk, new wave) had a subconscious influence - that nervous energy was definitely in the air. Whatever, the solution to the problem came in the form of the drum machine. Beats as steady as you like.

you need this in your life.

http://www.soulbrother.co.uk/pics/grooveondown2.gif

During the much derided 'disco years' of the late 1970's - a period remembered by many for glitterballs, Saturday Night Fever and commercial excess on the dance floor - a large, mainly Black and Hispanic contingent were grooving to an array of underground club cuts otherwise unheard by the vast majority. The tracks that these devotees championed at the time were marked out by their soulfulness and integrity - something that most mainstream disco releases of the day had long since abandoned. Over time and through constant experimentation this music would evolve, and by the early 80's it became what is now known as 'Boogie' - typified by a slightly slower groove carried on a heavier back beat.

Yeah, that's an essential comp, along with two Burgess collections also on Soul Brother. The second volume of Groove On Down is also very good.

During the much derided 'disco years' of the late 1970's - a period remembered by many for glitterballs, Saturday Night Fever and commercial excess on the dance floor - a large, mainly Black and Hispanic contingent were grooving to an array of underground club cuts otherwise unheard by the vast majority. The tracks that these devotees championed at the time were marked out by their soulfulness and integrity - something that most mainstream disco releases of the day had long since abandoned. Over time and through constant experimentation this music would evolve, and by the early 80's it became what is now known as 'Boogie' - typified by a slightly slower groove carried on a heavier back beat.

-- titchyschneiderMk2, Saturday, March 15, 2008 5:40 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Link

this is kinda bullshit tho. 'integrity'???

Yeah, I was gonna say; this is full of baloney, though who knows what "integrity" here is supposed to mean:

soulfulness and integrity - something that most mainstream disco releases of the day had long since abandoned

And yeah, I suppose the dumb platitude below applies to "many," but it really doesn't have much to do with most disco (or at least, there was plenty of late '70s disco it didn't apply to):

a period remembered by many for glitterballs, Saturday Night Fever and commercial excess on the dance floor

And like, why the fuck would disco care about "integrity" in the first place? (Part of what made it great to begin with is that it didn't. Or at least, didn't sound like it did.)

dancing to integrity is my fav

Dancing with integrity in my eyes.

It's probably just a marketing word so they can try to win over soul lovers who still have a problem with "disco". There is a sense of classiness to a lot of Boogie too.

Well... I do find it interesting that this odd little culty term, that was briefly popularised by a few hundred London scenesters in the late 1980s, has since crossed the Atlantic and found more common currency.

In the spirit of that age, I've dug out the mix tapes that my sister made for me in early 1989, when she was a regular on that scene ("Upfront" Friday nights at the Borderline with Trevor "Madhatter" Nelson and Gordon Mac in particular), hanging out at places like Red Records in Soho on Saturdays, and building up her own collection of re-issues and rarities. They were conceived as a souvenir soundtrack of the most played/memorable tracks at the club nights that she was attending at the time, and so may be of interest and tangential relevance. More importantly, every single track on these tapes, which I re-sourced and burnt to CD a few years ago and still play regularly, is utterly fantastic.

London's Old Fave Raves - Spring 1989.

CD1
Joy And Pain - Maze (81)
Want Ads - The Honey Come (71)
Dancin' - Grey & Hanks (78)
Stone To The Bone - James Brown (73)
Runaway Love - Linda Clifford (78)
The Groove - Rodney Franklin (80)
Love Injection - Trussel (79)
Running Away - Roy Ayers (77)
Expansions - Lonnie Liston Smith (75)
Let The Music Play - Charles Earland (78)
Risin' To The Top - Keni Burke (82)
Give Me Your Love - Sisters Love (73)

CD2
To Prove My Love - Ned Doheny (77)
Time Is Right - MCB (83)
Our Time Is Coming - Roy Ayers (82)
All About The Papers - The Dells (80)
Take Some Time Out For Love - The Salsoul Orchestra (79)
I Like What You're Doing To Me - Young & Company (80)
Number One - Patrice Rushen (82)
I Know You, I Live You - Chaka Khan (81)
Star - Earth, Wind & Fire (79)
A Lover's Holiday - Change (80)
The Glow Of Love - Change (80)
Annie Mae - Natalie Cole (77)
By All Means - Alphonse Mouzon (81)
A Chance For Peace (Give Peace A Chance) - Lonnie Liston Smith (80)

CD3
It's Alright Now - Eddie Harris (76)
Don't Make Me Wait - Peech Boys (82)
Movin' In The Right Direction - Steve Parks (81)
Brazilian Love Affair - George Duke (79)
Starchild - Level 42 (81)
Keep The Fire Burning - Gwen McCrae (82)
Disco Nights (Rock Freak) - GQ (79)
Back Together Again - Roberta Flack & Donnie Hathaway (80)
Always There - Willie Bobo (78)
Southern Freeez - Freeez (81)
What Are We Gonna Do About It - Mercy Mercy (85) (HIGHLY recommended)
Music Is My Sanctuary - Gary Bartz (77)
Can't You See Me - Roy Ayers (78)
Ain't No Time Fa Nothing - The Futures (78)
Miss Cheryl - Banda Black Rio (80)

From anecdotal memory and some limited personal experience, I'd say that the two biggest omissions would be Donald Byrd "(Fallin' Like) Dominoes" and Universal Robot Band "Barely Breaking Even" (82), massive anthems both.

From the list in the Greg Wilson piece that I linked above, I'd particularly recommend B.B.C.S & A Band "Rock Shock". A lot of this stuff is also covered in the Mastercuts "80s Groove" and "Rare Groove" comps: http://www.discogs.com/label/Mastercuts

Wow! Those tapes, Mike T! YSI?

Spun all these in a bar in Bed Stuy last night (and also "Rhythm of the Jungle" by the Quick, "Cutie Pie" by One Way, "Don't Make Me Wait" by Peech Boys, etc, among all sort of other kinds of things):

A2 Strikers, The Body Music (7:40)
C1 Secret Weapon (2) Must Be The Music (6:52)
C2 Unlimited Touch Searching To Find The One (6:53)
D2 Nick Straker Band A Little Bit Of Jazz (6:33)

i would love to hear those tapes.

xpost - by integrity i think they just mean 'not blatantly doing any and everything to go 100% pop'. whether that was on purpose or just a stylistic change in the music anyway, i dont know.

'not blatantly doing any and everything to go 100% pop'

Yeah, maybe that's what they were trying to say. But if so, they're still dumb, since plenty of late '70s disco didn't go pop (and plenty of this r&b stuff people have been calling "boogie" did, obviously) (and on both sides, the pop stuff is often the best.)

Want Ads - The Honey Come (71)

You KNOW I meant "Cone". Sheesh.

How does one get copies of these discs?

I love that Mercy Mercy record too. Your sister has very good taste Mike.

I'd say the cutoff for all this stuff is around 1986 though, no? I know some European collectors like to go up to 1989, but around '86 I find the production in most r&b shifts away from the disco/funk roots to being more bombastic and/or more pop, not to mention the rise of hip-hop, house, Jam & Lewis, and early new jack swing adding influences.

I agree, Michael: definitely a 1986 cut-off, and to these ears specifically around summer 1986, as the BPMs swung back up again and other genres took over.

"Yeah, maybe that's what they were trying to say. But if so, they're still dumb, since plenty of late '70s disco didn't go pop (and plenty of this r&b stuff people have been calling "boogie" did, obviously) (and on both sides, the pop stuff is often the best.)

-- xhuxk"

hmm, i have to disagree about this. most of the really poppy disco was in fact pretty terrible, it was the underground stuff stuff that was mostly decent. by the time the more r+b sounding boogie came into being, it was pretty good all around, both the poppy stuff and the underground stuff. but i definitely see a difference in the "integrity" of the two styles, much disco was made as a cash in while boogie was kind of just an extension of soul music which was always okay with being popular but i dont think it was its primary objective.

There's no need to romanticize non-crossover disco to the point of not acknowledging just how much total shit there was out there.

That said, pop crossover would be a distinct minority in my own list of the 100 best disco songs.

this thread is getting out of control. i am still not clear if i know what we are talking about in this thread. early 80s prelude style, right? NOT "rare groove"???

80s Prelude is a good generic reference point, but I think what this thread shows is that "boogie" can encompass many different genre strands in the post-disco era. There are some rare grooves that would be considered boogie, and hell, I've seen "2-step soul" mixes with a lot of boogie sounding tracks.

omg pipecock still a tard

most of the really poppy disco was in fact pretty terrible, it was the underground stuff stuff that was mostly decent

dude come the fuck on

Yeah really. Where's the terrible track on this:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:0pfwxqw5ldhe"> http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:0pfwxqw5ldhe

both the KC ones, for starters.

Horse. Shit.

Back to boogie. Boogie is bourgie. And some of the best boogie is the bourgiest.

Definitely a British term, and I believe the people making the music at this time all called it "funk." Anytime the lyrics references the music or the feel of the music, it's "we got the funk", "I'm gonna give the funk to right now", etc.

Most of the disco tunes using the word "funk" (or "funky") tended to have funk elements, in that the beat wasn't just plain 4/4 but there was also some slightly element of syncopation in there. No?

mike, that CD set looks great! I've never heard some of them, like "Dancin" by Grey and Hanks. "Love Injection" by Trussel is one of the greatest songs ever recorded, of course.

I'm curious about the "scene" these CDs were compiled in honour of. 1989, huh?

i think there can be a difference between 'mainstream poppiness' and 'black music poppiness'. obviously there can be a lot of overlap but theres certain R&B/disco/boogie/whatever tracks that are obviously great songs with populist appeal but they arent/werent going to be big pop hits.

It would have been partly the original fans of the stuff. After all it was only 5-10 years in the past. Plus the underground warehouse type scene that Soul II Soul were at the forefront of. I remember listening to Kiss FM (London) in those days (they were not yet legal but used to broadcast pretty consistently at the weekends). A lot of the older music still got played. It's a process of evolution. Nothing just cuts off abruptly.

Yeah dubmill I think that's what's interesting to me. It's sort of like if someone started up a classic 2-step garage night in London right now, or something.

I do agree that it seems weird that in 1989, there was a scene based on reviving tunes that weren't even a decade old yet. A sort of instant nostalgia for the people who grew up with them, and a quick catch-up history lesson for those who hadn't. I can also see that it was a logical follow-on from the mid-1970s funk revivalism of the original early 1987-era rare groove scene, as once that period had been thoroughly excavated then it would have made sense to keep moving forwards. That's certainly what Norman Jay did on his weekly KISS FM rare groove show, back in the station's pirate days.

N.B. When KISS finally opened as a legal station in 1990, it was these old soul boys that initially dominated. Over the opening weekend, you barely heard a contemporary tune.

Anyhow, once you've revived everything up until 3 or 4 years ago, then the only way forward is to return to the contemporary.

Tracer: According to my sis, Trussel's "Love Injection" was one of THE Friday night @ the Borderline tunes, played every week.

It doesn't seem especially weird to me because in a sense they weren't being revived - they just carried on being played, certainly by the old school Kiss DJs, eg Norman Jay, Trevor Nelson, Tony Monson and so on. Of course there was a younger listener for whom it was something they were being 'educated' about as opposed to having heard it when it first came out.

I think it was only with the advent of New Jack Swing that the earlier music began to seem truly old.

This is a waaaaay better single-disc comp of pop disco.

http://www.amazon.com/Disco-54-Collection-Various-Artists/dp/B000005KOY

(sorry, that was like a 12-hour x-post)

"Yeah really. Where's the terrible track on this:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:0pfwxqw5ldhe

-- Kevin John Bozelka"

you want me to name just one?

The Hustle Van McCoy
That's the Way (I Like It) KC & the Sunshine Band
Car Wash Rose Royce
Disco Inferno Trammps
(Shake, Shake, Shake) Shake Your Booty KC & the Sunshine Band
You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real) Sylvester
Miss Broadway Belle Epoque

that's like half of it. and some of the most offensively crap pop disco isnt even on there: the village people, "kung fu fighting", so many bad cover/disco versions, etc.

"This is a waaaaay better single-disc comp of pop disco.

http://www.amazon.com/Disco-54-Collection-Various-Artists/dp/B000005KOY

-- Eric H."

Car Wash - Rose Royce
Instant Replay - Dan Hartman

in fact you are correct, only 2 that i despise on that one. i'm not trying to paint a picture of anything that wasnt true, there were tons of bad disco records in the straight up disco era and in the boogie era. the thing is, the best boogie songs were often billboard r&b hits if nothing else, while so many of the pop disco jams were just atrocious. i blame the corny white disco people who didnt know what good dance music sounded like but bought lots of albums.

You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real) Sylvester

you gotta be fucking kidding me

i blame the corny white disco people who didnt know what good dance music sounded like but bought lots of albums.

-- pipecock, Monday, March 17, 2008 6:13 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Link

dom where is cornywhitepipecock.jpg

i mean dude no one is arguing there wasnt corny pop disco. whats your point? if you think there wasn't corny early 80s R&B yr tripping tho, just because that shit didnt make pure funk soundtracks doesnt mean it didnt exist - it sounds like yr familiarity w/ that shit basically begins and ends w/ the (corny) "boogie canon".

thats the only thing i can figure man.

but there are tons of 'boogie canon' shit that i think is wack anyway ... just like theres a decent # of P&P tracks where after awhile it just all starts to blend together and you wish some dude like sylvester would swoop in and save it all

Deej, how often do you play records for people in clubs?

You Make Me Feel Mighty Real is genius. Yr crazy.

xp about 1nce a month. i wasnt posting that as a dj or anything, purely listener perspective

Soul II Soul were way cornier than any of this stuff, regardless. (But yeah, any purist putz who hates "Car Wash" and "Disco Inferno" and KC and Sylvester is living on some idiot planet I never want to visit. If you leave that stuff out of your definition of disco, you might as well stick to folk festivals.)

I mean, there is almost NOTHING cornier than "let's keep our holy organic authentic soul music free from Top 40 additives than most people find fun" bullshit.

And I seriously doubt "corny white disco people" were the Trammps' primary audience, for God's sake.

(And "Instant Reply" by Dan Hartman is one of the great bubble-disco songs of all time, by the way.)

"Miss Broadway" by Belle Epoque = One of history's most remarkable Bo Diddley rips. Jeezh. (Which yeah, is somewhat less corny than fucking smooth jazz.)

this is such a great turning point album. you can smell the 80's coming. school of 79 disco meets turn of the decade electro/r&b. every dj should own a copy.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/415WTDRA6NL._AA240_.jpg

(xp: Nothing against folk festivals and smooth jazz, which of course can be wonderful sometimes. Just have no interest in picking them instead of music that happens to have awesome hooks in it.)

"Soul II Soul were way cornier than any of this stuff, regardless"

whats SIIS got to do with boogie?

They're mentioned upthread; do a search.

Every DJ should own "Shake It Up (Do The Boogaloo)" by Rod (last name: Niangandoumou). Surprised nobody's mentioned that here; it's from 1981, right?

i am no dj, but i own the rod 12inch.

The album boogies well, too!

everyone should own "astro boogie" by today tomorrow forever too. from 1979. a disco group that decided late in the game to add p funk to their disco. like the adc band.

Is Captain Sky considered boogie? The albums I have are from 1978 and 1979, so he might be too early.

How about Richard "Dimples" Fields? He was great! But maybe too slow? I have two different albums from 1982.

And hey, what about Ray Parker Jr.? (I bet if he was more obscure, he'd count for sure. Or at least Raydio would.)

"Shake You Down" by Gregory Abbot (1986) is too late, right?

But what about Midnight Star, then? Or "Attack of the Name Game" by Stacy Lattisaw? (Heck, what about Teena Marie, for that matter? She boogied for sure!)

Or what about stuff on the cusp of disco and New Orleans r&b, like say Lee Dorsey's "Night People" or Cheyne's "Call Me Mr. Telephone" or Musique's "Push Push (In The Bush)"? Does that count? (It should.)

Musique is simply Disco. And way to fast to be boogie.

"Soul II Soul were way cornier than any of this stuff, regardless"

whats SIIS got to do with boogie?

I mentioned them, but in the context of their role as DJs on the London club scene in the mid to late '80s (when boogie would certainly have been a part of their repertoire), not for their own music. I thought that distinction was obvious in my post.

I never said they were boogie, actually. (I don't think I ever said anybody was boogie, really, except Foghat.) I just hadn't taken a gratuitous swipe at Soul II Soul in years, so I went for it.

"You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real) Sylvester

you gotta be fucking kidding me

-- deej"

nope. sylvester had many fantastic tracks, that one just isn't one of them. if i never hear that one again, my life will be much better for it.

"You Make Me Feel Mighty Real is genius. Yr crazy.

-- dan selzer"

you can feel free to play it all you want, then.

"I mean, there is almost NOTHING cornier than "let's keep our holy organic authentic soul music free from Top 40 additives than most people find fun" bullshit."

i really dont know what you mean. there is good poppy disco, those records just arent them. for example, Chic is one of the best disco groups ever and they did the pop stuff quite perfectly. it wasnt a joke, but it was shit that people could dig.

"And I seriously doubt "corny white disco people" were the Trammps' primary audience, for God's sake."

i just hate that track, regardless of who likes it.

"(And "Instant Reply" by Dan Hartman is one of the great bubble-disco songs of all time, by the way.)

-- xhuxk"

if you say so.

"Soul II Soul were way cornier than any of this stuff, regardless. (But yeah, any purist putz who hates "Car Wash" and "Disco Inferno" and KC and Sylvester is living on some idiot planet I never want to visit. If you leave that stuff out of your definition of disco, you might as well stick to folk festivals.)

-- xhuxk"

i have literally a couple thousand disco records. basically every one of them is better than those songs. why should i keep them around, because idiots like them? i'll pass.

as for some of the other reccomendations, love the Debbie Jacobs (i have both the 12"s from that one as well as the album) but it is hardly boogie in any way, really. the Rod 12" is exactly the definition of a boring boogie record. there must be 150 better Prelude records, many of which are just as easy to find.

I dunno guys KC & the Sunshine band is pretty awful and cheesy. And not cheesy in the good way (see: Silver Contenvion), just embarassingly cheesy. "Car Wash" and "You Make Me Feel" are pretty unfickwithable though.

"I dunno guys KC & the Sunshine band is pretty awful and cheesy. And not cheesy in the good way (see: Silver Contenvion), just embarassingly cheesy. "Car Wash" and "You Make Me Feel" are pretty unfickwithable though.

-- The Brainwasher"

KC is just some of the worst shit i have ever heard. silver convention too. i dont see how that sylvester and RR joint are any less corny though. there are literally SO MANY better disco songs out there. and to whomever mentioned P&P, i dont care for most of their records either. i tend to think pat adams is crazily overrated. leroy burgess too. they had some things i like, but they too were painfully corny.

some of the most retarded things i have ever read in my entire life appear in this thread.

-- pipecock, Monday, March 17, 2008 6:31 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

well yeah, there are better disco songs out there. that doesn't mean that those two songs aren't enjoyable...

"well yeah, there are better disco songs out there. that doesn't mean that those two songs aren't enjoyable...

-- The Brainwasher"

it's like saying your two favorite hiphop songs of all time are "u can't touch this" and "ice ice baby". those might be enjoyable to some people, but they still suck.

uh.. okay.

Please define corny. How is it more or less corny then Sylvester's many fantastic tracks?

i no longer care.

You should give it another shot. Just one more time, real loud. Maybe you'll finally come around.

Also, please explain why "corny" and "cheesy" are bad things (especially in disco, which was partially great because it was brave enough not to leave stuff that people with sticks up their asses dismissed as "corny" and "cheesy" out.) (I hate to ask what you guys think of Disco Tex & the Sex-O-Lettes and Boney M, but I guess I just did. So go for it.)

I'm perfectly fine with "Car Wash" and "More More More" and think "Mighty Real" is titanically great, but how anyone can stomach "Shake Your Booty" is beyond me. (Which isn't to say KC didn't have a good one in him: "I'm Your Boogie Man.")

KC is just some of the worst shit i have ever heard. silver convention too. i dont see how that sylvester and RR joint are any less corny though. there are literally SO MANY better disco songs out there. and to whomever mentioned P&P, i dont care for most of their records either. i tend to think pat adams is crazily overrated. leroy burgess too. they had some things i like, but they too were painfully corny.

Jesus, maybe you ARE trolling in the wrong genre.

On my pandora station right now: KC And the Sunshine Band, "Keep It Comin' Love." What do you know, sounds as perfect as it always has.

You wacky KC haters really need to get a clue, so:

Chic/KC = Zep/Sab. "Get Down Tonight" is a call to riot in the streets.
-- dave q, Friday, October 22, 2004 1:24 PM

Say Anything About KC & The Sunshine Band

TS: Chic vs. KC and the Sunshine Band

I don't really care much for either of the KC songs on that comp, but I will defend "Keep It Comin' Love" to the death.

the first kc album is fucking great.

i can't imagine anyone not liking the sound of sunshine album.

We can all agree that Diana Ross's "Love Hangover" is better than almost any other disco record ever made, pop or underground, right?

xp "Queen Of Clubs" (from '74) rules. They were an excellent band, and they helped invent disco (first single came out in 1973), when you get down (tonight) to it. (And so did Silver Convention whose first few albums -- especially Madhouse, which is really fucking weird, and Love in a Sleeper -- are great, too. And not in a "so bad they're good" way. They're just great, period.) (If you count George McCrae and Penny McLean, both KC + SC had side projects who made great records, too.)

yeah i really loved kc and the sunshine band until pipecock broke it to me that they were both 'cheesy' and 'corny'

two of the most overused-as-pejorative terms on ilx really

a little cheese and corn doesn't bite

still kinda curious what Display Name was getting at in this thread

rev are you much of a dancer

― deej, Sunday, July 1, 2007 12:11 PM Bookmark

Tangentially speaking, it's interesting how Wild Cherry in "Play That Funky Music" use the term "boogie" to mean white music that is comparatively not funky.

Still don't like KC, but I'd rather like KC than not like P&P.

Wasn't this more of a late 70s thing than an early 80s thing?
I mean stuff like "Yes Sir I Can Boogie" and "Boogie Oogie Oogie" was all made in the 70s.

As for the disco-ish material from the early 80s, I have heard some refer to "80s soul weekender" as typical name to use for compilations etc, but I otherwise haven't quite managed to hear a proper musical genre label on the kind of post-disco, pre-new- jack-swing/Hi-NRG dance music that was popular in the first half of 80s. I mean, like Shalamar, Imagination, D-Train, late period Kool & The Gang, early SOS Band and virtually anything Quincy Jones produced from 1979 until 82-83. What would be the best term to describe that?

I'm sure the answer will seem obvious once I hear it, but who, or what, is "P&P"?

Anyway, I still think "boogie" is a really lazy name for the '80s post-disco r&b stuff. Is that really the best name they could come up with in retrospect, especially when apparently nobody called the music that when it actually existed?

"I know, let's pick a name that nobody will confuse with '40s boogie-woogie, '50s country boogie, '60s Latin boogaloo, '70s boogie rock, and 25 percent of hit '70s disco song titles that have absolutely nothing to do with the music we're talking about." "Okay, how about 'boogie'?? That'll work."

I have sometimes hear it described as "jazz funk", but really, when I hear the term "Jazz funk", I am more likely to think of Herbie Hancock, Weather Report or maybe Level 42, than I am to think of Imagination or Shalamar.

"Yes Sir I Can Boogie" and "Boogie Oogie Oogie"

Neither of these songs are boogie, as the term is being used here.

I'm sure the answer will seem obvious once I hear it, but who, or what, is "P&P"?

http://www.discogs.com/label/P&P+Records

rev are you much of a dancer

― deej, Sunday, July 1, 2007 12:11 PM Bookmark

― numerous circles of frontin (The Reverend), Saturday, May 9, 2009 9:05 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

but u knew exactly what i was getting at!

xhuxk thats pretty much what i was wondering in starting this thread

oh boogie of course!

boogers

for the record I can outdance anybody on this message board w/o breaking a sweat trick yahhh

fwiw im pretty sure i was responding to u saying u couldnt dance to chic

I didn't say that. I said that there were a lot of things I'd rather dance to. Tbh, at the time of that thread I wasn't particularly used to dancing to 4x4-based music and found it awkward because I'd try to dance to it like I'd dance to a funk or hip-hop record. I'm all fine w/ Chic now.

Anyway, I still think "boogie" is a really lazy name for the '80s post-disco r&b stuff. Is that really the best name they could come up with in retrospect, especially when apparently nobody called the music that when it actually existed?

"I know, let's pick a name that nobody will confuse with '40s boogie-woogie, '50s country boogie, '60s Latin boogaloo, '70s boogie rock, and 25 percent of hit '70s disco song titles that have absolutely nothing to do with the music we're talking about." "Okay, how about 'boogie'?? That'll work."

thank goodness this lazy retrospect aspect has kept us from other confusing names like "garage" or "funky house"

People called garage and funky house by those names while those musics were being made.

no, I'm pretty sure that it only happens in lazy retrospect

i think we'd all be better off if we could agree, right here and now, to call this stuff "disco donk."

http://www.comicgenius.com/DISCOFEVER/disco_profiles/rick_dees/images/disco_duck_album_cover.jpg

funnily enough, i just came across that record (slightly rain-wet) in a box at the treptower flea market yesterday. i didn't buy it, but i DID score a $.50 copy of Georgia Gibbs' "The Hula Hoop Song" ("Die erste Original-Aufnahme des Schlagers!") b/w "Keep in Touch," plus a couple of children's flexi-discs from the DaDeWe department store.

Here's the AWESOME cover:
https://www.vinyl.de/bilder/20091169845_33789512_MVC-348S.JPG

attention, artists: more covers like that, please.

this mix full of obscure stuff has some clunkers but also gold, like Bohannon's "wake up"

listening to a lot of this kind of stuff lately. i played some unidisc "prelude's greatest hits" cds in the car but they were mastered like shit, so i'll probably be sellin em.

THIS LABEL looks like the shit; anybody heard any of these comps?

Boogie Times is as hit or miss as any other boogie themed compilation series, I've found.

sorry Surmounter, I'm just trying to fill up the um...stuff here

can't stop listening to these ron trent prescription radio mixes...

http://www.prescriptionworld.org/mixes/prradio_rontrent.mp3
http://www.prescriptionworld.org/mixes/pr2.mp3

i am in a hipster-esque cafe that is playing all forgotten pop/r&b from the '80s: rufus, junior, eddy grant. weird!

not that i mind! i don't think i've ever heard a whole eddy grant LP!

eddy grant's got a pretty amazing career filled with awesome jams!

retrospective genre naming - c/d.

perfectly useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DRD1A28twk

underrated thread :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRDu24f_4dM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUNoNQmqpoA

"I believe in the boogie/but the boogie don't believe in me..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hhakA07UsY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E9HqjI_-l4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZYhg38ehEw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoleB9i7Sy8

anyone got any good mixes of this stuff?

i mentioned a real good one upthread, 'soul on the grill ii'

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Paul-Nice-Soul-On-The-Grill-2-The-Early-80s-Session/release/547163

Sounds like a really nice selection. AM-FM "You Are The One".... wonderful track!

Still hate the name, but this was a good mix that came out late last year:

DJ Spinna – The Boogie Back: Post Disco Club Jams (BBE)

http://www.discogs.com/DJ-Spinna-The-Boogie-Back-Post-Disco-Club-Jams/release/2016909

Really though, I'd say this vinyl one from 1982 is pretty definitive, if you can find it

http://www.discogs.com/Various-987-Kiss-FM-Presents-Shep-Pettibones-Mastermixes/release/229611

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2011/may/03/simon-reynolds-boogie-genre-term

i should really just start pitching my thread ideas instead of making threads lol

haha totally

i used 'boogie' in a review today

I've found out that Unidisc's Star-Funk compilation series is possibly the best way to get good boogie tunes on CD for a decent price. They look ugly and have barely any liner notes, but the tune selection on them tends to be top-notch, often mixing rare and obscure tunes (some of which have never appeared on CD anywhere else) with better known classics. They often include electro, hi-NRG and 70s disco too, but the main focus seems to be on early 80s synth-driven post-disco. The quality of the series seems to get more erratic in the later entries (there are 42 different comps in the series!), but the first 25 or so are quality stuff.

fwiw I was like 10 years old when this term was being used in disco ("Boogie Oogie Oogie") and I hated it. Except for Heatwave's "Boogie Nights," Heatwave owns they can do what they want

I know it's not the best term, but it seems to have become the most common name for this specific genre (early 80s, keyboard/synth heavy, post-disco, pre-house American club music), so it's convenient to use it. Or are there any other common names for the genre?

"Boogie Oogie Oogie" > "Boogie Woogie"

https://soundcloud.com/kukka-dj/boogiemix

oh i was wondering if anyone ever made a thread about this

Tangentially speaking, it's interesting how Wild Cherry in "Play That Funky Music" use the term "boogie" to mean white music that is comparatively not funky.

― Josefa, Sunday, May 10, 2009 1:37 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

http://autoimg.clipfish.de/autoimg/DEL211302129/512x288/milky-chance-stolen-dance.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hYJnMgwJDE

this is so fucking good. the best boogie-era funk song by a white band that I've ever heard.

:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSRrGl_bJTw

found this on a youtube crawl. It's cool tracing these bands' development from straight funk to disco to boogie around this time, and how almost invariably, they disappear once hip hop and electro comes around. Some of musicians end up in production or songwriting, or as session guys -- like these dudes, who played behind Teena Marie, Luther Vandross, Billy Preston. Cool rhythm guitar part, nice hook

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjzlQHU4KKw

I love the shit outta this era.

This thread was great until you nerds started going on and on about KC and the sunshine band! Really appreciate mike t-diva’s posts itt

v good thread, including the kc-related digressions!

indeed!

awesome thread :)

Kc and his sunshine band is good

This was a really good re-read. Those "London's Old Fave Raves" mixtapes which I mentioned upthread, although as much jazz-funk as boogie, are on a Spotify playlist.

The KC digression reminded me that this music has its own rockist tendencies. I've been playing this stuff out every Friday for the past twelve months, and I've also struggled with my inner rockism (although my regulars haven't) - but these days, I'm happier about finishing the night with pop crossovers.

110-118 feels like the right boogie BPM ballpark, from Fonda Rae "Over Like A Fat Rat" (110) to Status IV "You Ain't Really Down" (118), but it can go slower (Fat Larry's Band "Act Like You Know") or faster (The Strikers "Body Music").

boogie's current incarnation is known as modern funk. a couple good labels in the genre are run by the homie hotthobo:

http://voltairerecords.bigcartel.com/
https://hobocamp.bandcamp.com/

I have had it incorrectly in my head for years that A Taste Of Honey lifted the Kerouac line "if you can't boogie I know I'll show you how" for Boogie Oogie Oogie but the line isn't in the song. Huh.