How good is 'American Boy' by Estelle?

Very good record. I love the '80s boogie touch to the rhythm. Not keen on the video, though. I wish it wasn't studio-bound, but instead had London and NY street scenes.

i like it but can't think of anything to say about it right now. sounds like her album is gonna be good. look out for forthcoming grauniad interivew ft. possible Adele diss.

When's the album out?

Not a fan of 'American Boy' but 'Just a Touch' is great. She put on a helluva show at Joe's; I'm looking forward to the Highline gig.

It brings to mind lots of other good things, without actually sounding like anything else I could identify. Right now I'm thinking bossa nova. Earlier it was smooth jazz. What's going on here?

It reminds me of Shakatak : (

hey so did Annie's 'No Easy Love'

"Impatient" >>>>>>>> this

i like this joint, not as much as 1980.

kanye's verse on this is totally phoned in

"He asked me what drink in the UK is hot, and I said Ribena, so he's put it down in his rhyme!"I'm gonna send him a bottle when the album gets released."
"We were in the studio when Kanye started rapping about Ribena, his favourite drink, and WAGs. I said to him, 'Do you even know what a WAG is?' And he said, 'Yeah, she's a gold digger.'"

The song is more junk; materialistic, consumerist, image-conscious sugary pop crap. Kanye is, of course, a joke. Mall rap. Estelle is an android built by a Japanese media company.

"nice" "try"

http://music.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2268835,00.html

^^ sort of racist notion of soul, no?

this song sucks

i can believe the music industry is biased in favour of commercial white pop, and maybe the post-amy thing is akin to the public-school-ification of indie (lol i mean now it's out in the open obviously), but this

"Adele ain't soul. She sounds like she heard some Aretha records once, and she's got a deeper voice - that don't mean she's soul. That don't mean nothing to me in the grand scheme of my life as a black person. As a songwriter, I get what they do. As a black person, I'm like: you're telling me this is my music? Fuck that!"

is kind of bullshit. and i hate adele as much as the next hater.

It's a tricky one, I don't think Adele is really 'soul' in any meaningful sense other than her voice (Winehouse maybe but that's a slightly different thing). If 'Chasing Pavements' were a big swelling Dido song with identical production and arrangement, no one would be making that connection.

I mean, really, Adele is kind of a fourth-generation Xerox of a defintion of 'soul' that's coming up for 40 years old so I can see why a lot of black people would be kind of fucked off about that.

A lot of white people as well, frankly. I think you're trying too hard to read a 'white people can't make soul music' message into this considering Estelle is explicitly attacking the industry's treatment of black British artists.

Also Adele is being sold as an 'mmmmmm look authenticity' kind of artist. But hey if you want to turn the tables and go "actually its YOU that's being racist" by all means do so but bear in mind when people do this on hip-hop threads then people like Ethan are tearing them a new arsehole within a few posts.

Don't think anyone's gonna get Captain-Save-A-Minority over Estelle, tbh.

(Haha I haven't actually heard the Estelle single, knowingly, I'm more interested in attacking the argument than defending Estelle).

Considering there's, what, three of these soul musicians actually around at the moment, and that the black population of Britian is 2% (actually probably less nowadays, considering immigration from Eastern Europe)... the maths aren't really bared out here.

i don't think adele is being sold as "black" or even tbh "soul" that much. winehouse is, and joss stone was. i don't think the music industry, for all its sins, is "telling me (her) is (her) music".

it's an hard question because it's not just about "the industry" but the media too. i don't think estelle's talking about grime or other (black) scenes that grow up under the radar of the mainstream media, and which the industry has mishandled; but about, say, jamelia, who go to the public on a morning tv/music video/radio one playlist basis.

I don't think "American Boy" is quite as good as it would like to be - it's OK but not earth shattering - but nonetheless I think Estelle's OTM.

Sharon Jones and the Dap-Kings were doing the whole Amy/Adele/Duffy-type thing - only 10 x power of a million times better. Of course, being black and past her teenage years, no one cared. Ditto, for that matter, and adding a decade, Beverley Knight.

Radio 1 caves in to David Cameron's threats and segregates all black music content into the 1Xtra ghetto.

Amy, Adele, Joss and Duffy - ideal fodder for middle-aged, white, pederastic and racist record company executives only interested in actual British black music if it can be made to look and sound as white as possible (Corinne B-R, Gabrielle etc. with Jamelia as possible exception).

Oh, and weather proferred as feeble excuse (how can they tell?) for lack of Glastonbury ticket action, alternating with booking of Jay-Z for Glastonbury as a strawman (is he headlining all three nights? The Reading Festival wasn't exactly bereft of crowd the night Public Enemy headlined) with implicit racist subtext though in the case of typical 2008 Glastonbury goer demographic (i.e. the picnic lunch, sensible portable IKEA table, tents the size of small houses, baby-bearing/waving ones) this might not be too far wrong.

(Hasn't Beverley Knight actually sold a truckload of records though?)

i don't think the music industry, for all its sins, is "telling me (her) is (her) music".

Well no, Adele isn't aimed at her, it's aimed at the Radio 2 listening public, but when the message is that loud I'm assuming she can't help overhearing.

BK a mediocre singles career but appeared to keep releasing records anyway:

33 Beverley Knight Flavour Of The Old School Oct 1995 Notes
21 Beverley Knight featuring Redman Made It Back May 1998 Notes
40 Beverley Knight Rewind (Find A Way) Aug 1998
19 Beverley Knight featuring Redman Made It Back 99 Apr 1999 Notes
14 Beverley Knight Greatest Day Jul 1999
31 Beverley Knight Sista Sista Dec 1999
17 Beverley Knight Get Up Nov 2001
10 Beverley Knight Shoulda Woulda Coulda Mar 2002
27 Beverley Knight Gold Jul 2002
9 Beverley Knight Come As You Are Jul 2004
31 Beverley Knight Not Too Late For Love Oct 2004
16 Beverley Knight Keep This Fire Burning Mar 2005
16 Beverley Knight Piece Of My Heart Mar 2006

Maybe I'm fooled by longevity here - the albums have done reasonably well though but not Adele level (let alone elephant-in-room Leona here who is something of a special case).

Well, Leona comes under the as-white-as-can-be-made category; no doubt her youth and half-caste status were more appealing to X-Factor viewers than the black woman who sang a million times better but was twice her age and heavier and we can't have that in our sparkling "new" "pop" age.

(also, at a tangent, incipient racism of ITV viewers attempting on a weekly basis to get rid of sole non-injured black contestant in Dancing On Ice and you could tell what the judges were thinking but dared not say)

half-caste status

FFS.

This is going to get worse before it gets better.

Half black Guyanese, half white Welsh, I think fairly qualifies as "half caste status."

http://music.guardian.co.uk/urban/story/0,,2268507,00.html

lawls i see alex 'the lex' macpherson agrees with estelle.

There was a certain irony in the announcement of the new No 1 single on Sunday. Replacing Duffy's Mercy at the top was American Boy by Estelle. Replacing a song by a singer groomed and promoted as bringing back "proper soul" was one by a singer from Britain's urban scene, one whose definition of soul is rather different from that of the people who have worked hard to make stars of Duffy and her fellow Britsoul junior diva, Adele.

where's the irony? if duffy is being sold as 'proper soul' (which is arguable), why is it 'ironic' that estelle disagrees? the lex isn't brave enough to say 'estelle = black', he says she's 'urban' whatever the fuck that means; but he's also implying that the true definition of soul belongs to black/urban folk. this is profoundly mojo magazine-y, 'natural rhythm'-type BS.

and the estelle quote in full is:

As a black person, I'm like: you're telling ME this is MY music? Fuck that! They keep trying to tell me in the media what soul music is and I'm like, we KNOW what soul music is, stop fucking around with us! You're taking the piss out of every black person in the country!

again, is duffy really being sold as 'black'? im amazed that poptimist lex is buying into this stuff rly -- the point about the music industry holding down black talent is totally separate from this.

and the post-'1980' story i can believe -- but the heavily promoted and indeed ubiquitous '1980' still only got to number 14 in the charts, and the follow-up to number 15. i don't know whose fault that is, but the story is entirely told from estelle's POV. and indeed, her current record label's POV.

also:

"If you think about where I'm from, I'm not supposed to be singing in the first place," she says. "I'm not supposed to be alive right now. We're all supposed to be in jail or killing each other. I refuse to believe that."

this in conjunction with 'life is heaven in the US' -- seriously?

also im gonna be bitchy but:

That No 1 single, American Boy, is a deliciously breezy house strut about the joys of a blossoming cross-cultural relationship. It began life as a joke, as Estelle and Will.i.am attempted to introduce Legend to the joys of dance music.

dude.

Dingbod and Princess Michael of Kent in agreement shocker.

(Dom OTM)

But that's just Farringdon Gang default setting reaction to black music, isn't it? Black people are somehow "exotic" or "exciting". Apparently when my relatives from Calabria first came to this country on holiday, they'd seek out black people to have their photograph taken with, in the same way tourists now do with red phone boxes or bobbies on the beat, because they'd never seen them before and they were worthy of standing next to with an awkward smile on their faces. The Guardian's urban music department seemingly have a lot in common with Zio Pietro.

xp

Kinda interested to know where the Welsh figure in the caste system though.

"Dalit" kinda sounds like a Welsh word.

Half-caste (or half-cast) is a term used to describe people of mixed race or ethnicity. Caste comes from the Latin castus, meaning pure, and the derivative Portuguese and Spanish casta, meaning race. The term originates from the Indian caste system, where a person of 'lesser' or half-caste would be deemed to be of a 'lower class.' While the origins of the term are derogatory, its usage has evolved to give it the more objective meaning described above.

Half caste is a term used in the United Kingdom and other English-speaking parts of the world. An example is a child of black African and white European parentage. The term mulatto (from the Spanish "Mulato") has also been used for this particular mixture. Both terms are considered impolite and potentially offensive in the U.S., as the words have been used pejoratively in the past to ostracise and isolate the offspring of such unions. For example, "children of the plantation" (the children of African-American slaves and their European-American masters in the U.S. Southern states) were not accepted as heirs, and in most cases, the relationship was never acknowledged, and "half-caste" conveyed the deliberate exclusion.

So you're not going to apologise for throwing around racist terms then?

ignoring that part of MC's post: omg attractive young woman wins out over older, less attractive one in pop contest.

lols at 'million times better' too. come on.

xpost

i do think it's irresponsible writing, totally uncritical. also, obviously, cloying -- "americans want to see central london but i'll take them to holloway road" -- seriously, how can you not zing that?

Americans need to see the GRITTY URBAN DEPRIVED areas of Britain (where houses start at £250,000, 12 times the average British salary)

Matt - you might want to read what I posted, in particular the last sentence of the first paragraph of my last post, and then perhaps discuss the issues I actually raised, instead of throwing around potentially slanderous accusations at me.

I read what you said, and I don't accept that the usage of the term has become "objective", I don't accept that it is no longer racially-charged or used in a derogatory way.

I know full well the point you were trying to make but don't undermine it with your own language.

Well I could just have said "shut up you pompous little prick" but while admittedly more direct it doesn't resonate as substantially.

You really couldn't fucking make this up.

Hmm, not really going to get very far with this thread, am I? It's sort of like Clare Short Numberwang around here. Never mind, there are other threads available...

i'm still wrapping my head around the apparent fact that Estelle had to leave the UK in order to have a #1 single here. now even without Kanye's name attached to it, 'American Boy' is lighter than '1980's drama and that alone may have been enough to bump it higher up the chart but if the US can promote British (black) artists better even in the UK then that's fucked, and seems a step backwards from the days of '21 Seconds' and 'Fill Me In'.

if the US can promote British (black) artists better even in the UK then that's fucked

Is this even remotely true? Bloc Party, T2, Wiley... you think any of these acts, all top 10ers over here, would amount to shit if they went to America permanently?

21 Seconds and Fill Me In had the advantage of coming off the back of a booming scene the industry knew there was a market for - may yet happen with bassline as well. It's a slightly different situation.

Wait Wiley in the Top 10 when did that happen?!

It's upcoming. "Wearing My Rolex" will be top 5, trust me.

Is this even remotely true? Bloc Party, T2, Wiley... you think any of these acts, all top 10ers over here, would amount to shit if they went to America permanently?

not what i mean. i don't actually know the answer to why 'American Boy' is as successful as it is. Estelle doesn't appear to either.

i wonder if something the labels overlook is how you could hear the Adele, Duffy, maybe even Cilmi songs for the first time without knowing who they were and assume they were black vocalists, taking an interest on the basis of liking the songs, even encouraged by their apparent 'authenticity' (the sound of the music and the voices) or adherence to tradition - all before seeing the videos, press coverage etc. how the listener's attitude changes (if at all - and i think often it doesn't) thereafter is the key thing. but the first part suggests the appeal of black soul artists here hasn't actually gone away. even a female equivalent of Lemar would be nice to see (boring as his own brand of pop-soul may be to those who don't think he's fit) but much harder to achieve (and hard to explain without sounding sexist rather than racist).

"What Remi Nicole's failure to top the charts tells us about race in the UK"

f the US can promote British (black) artists better even in the UK then that's fucked

bit of a stretch on the basis of one record innit? especially when the media pitch, as in the guardian, is "the US can promote British (black) artists better even in the UK"!

No the point the article is making is the US knows how to promote black artists, domestically and internationally, better than the UK does, which is pretty unarguable surely. The holes in the point, really are:

- putting KANYE WEST on the track is kind of route-one to international success. Admittedly that means her US label saw the potential when maybe the UK didn't.

- Estelle is pretty internationalist in her appeal anyway, more than, say a British MC.

(Incidentally according to the Lex there's a bit in the interview that he left out, when Estelle goes on about how much she loves Amy Winehouse, about how she totally fits into her definition of 'soul' etc etc. Which is kind of a big omission IMO).

No the point the article is making is the US knows how to promote black artists, domestically and internationally, better than the UK does, which is pretty unarguable surely.

the US knows how to promote black american artists domestically, but actually not that well over here!

the article is saying that the UK industry can't promote black british artists, but that the US one can.

it's true in the specific case of estelle -- but she's working in a US idiom. would a US label do better with, say, a grime or UK hip-hop act?

the US knows how to promote black american artists domestically, but actually not that well over here!

don't think that's true, they (the artists as much as the label) can't be bothered to put as much into the market here (and why should they when it's not so big a market) - in any case there are countless US artists massive here

yeah that's sort of what i mean i guess -- they seem to do well without that much coverage. whereas estelle's pitch is "i have the might of a US label behind me."

"without that much coverage"

Who do you mean? All the big-selling black American artists I can think of are getting shedloads of coverage over here. The Graun and NME are pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Nb - I also think the US wouldn't do that well at flogging eg Kano to the UK market, but they might do a better job than over here. I think the assumption over here WRT a lot of black music is "only black people will buy this and that's not a big enough market". It's less institutional racism and more a lack of faith in crossover appeal that could apply to whole swathes of music being made in this country.

remember that show with Fatman Scoop signing up that quintet of Brits? whatever happened to them?

Who do you mean? All the big-selling black American artists I can think of are getting shedloads of coverage over here. The Graun and NME are pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

haha that might be true. i sort of live in an ivory tower a bit. still don't feel black american artists are as much on the PR treadmill but yeh ok.

I think the assumption over here WRT a lot of black music is "only black people will buy this and that's not a big enough market".

welllll... i'm saying that 'black music' is a useless category. black US rnb has been massive here forever.

but black british 'street' music -- the nuum -- comes and goes, but when it's doing well, it isn't just among a black audience; and because of the peculiar nature of british pop, it's again hard to call it 'black music' in the way that US rnb is conventionally called that*: that rests on the same assumption that black british musicians are umbilically linked to black american styles.

i can believe what estelle's saying about the failings of the UK industry and media, but looking at the jamelia farrago -- was that because they didn't have faith in her ability to crossover? i don't know what it was tbh.

*not exactly unproblematic

what Jamelia farrago?

her last LP was a perceived commercial failure, no?

so it would seem - still two top ten hits out of it tho. odd (esp. as she's one of the artists 'accused' of having veered from rnb-derived style towards various other areas of pop)

Jamelia's been dropped. The official story is disagreements over marketing. If she can't do it, despite the fact that the press seem to love her, you can't really blame the industry for canning the likes of Terri Walker, Keisha White, Alesha and Shaznay.

Also, The US labels aren't that good themselves at selling black artists that attempt to do something different from the norms - re complete bollocksing of Amerie and Kelis, both of whom are way bigger in the UK than in the US, and both of whom are without record contracts.

I've never heard of Estelle cuz I'm American but I LOVE this song!! there's really nothing wrong with it, at all...even Kanye comes off as charming and kind of not that obnoxious...

also, Rev: I really like "Independent" by Will.i.am but come on!!! no way...

yeah this song is wicked.

i'm not even going to get involved in the other argument going on in this thread. "half-caste" wtf.

its ok.

decent enough tasteful soulful house.

her voice is quite weak but she carries the tune. almost becomes kanyes tune as he occupies quite a bit of space on the song but hey good for her. shes doing well.

her band are shit hot though - saw them at the jazz cafe last year. all imported from the US via john legend.

as far as her selling to the US market, its an easier sell than kano or dizzee or whoever as shes a singer now, not a rapper. no uk rapper is really going to make a mark in the states. but if youre omar, or d influence or soul II soul or whoever, you can do alright. and they have done.

kanye sounds sad :(

hey guys.

what is a "wag"?

when she sings "take me to New York, I'd love to see L.A." I feel like she's going to transform into Eva Gabor mid-song and say "Neeeeew YORK is where I'd rather stay!"

Dear Mr. Dingbod Kesterson,

Fuck yourself nice and slow.

Sincerely,

A "half-caste"

the best bit is where she says 'tell em wagwan blud'. ;)

i like the tune even though it makes me think of a fucking american airlines commercial. wouldnt be surprised if it gets licensed, even if it is a bit obvious.

decent enough tasteful soulful house.

this is exactly why I love it.. I am all for this little house thing that's going on in pop/hip hop whatever, it's really a great thing if you ask me. I want more new songs in that vein...

what is a "wag"?

means a footballer's trophy girl -- probably extended to other male celebs' girls. from 'Wife And Girlfriend's.

Jamelia's been dropped. The official story is disagreements over marketing. If she can't do it, despite the fact that the press seem to love her, you can't really blame the industry for canning the likes of Terri Walker, Keisha White, Alesha and Shaznay.

Also, The US labels aren't that good themselves at selling black artists that attempt to do something different from the norms - re complete bollocksing of Amerie and Kelis, both of whom are way bigger in the UK than in the US, and both of whom are without record contracts.

-- danzig, Friday, March 28, 2008 7:33 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

this is interesting. i had no idea amerie was without a label in the US. i'd assumed she was mega-huge!

soulful house with a Kanye feature??? yes please

xp

also, Rev: I really like "Independent" by Will.i.am but come on!!! no way...

-- Preview of the Matrix 12, Friday, March 28, 2008 12:46 PM (Friday, March 28, 2008 12:46 PM) Bookmark Link

ya rly. The additions to the "Impatient" track don't mesh at all and the whole thing sounds a bit shrill. Me no like. The original was much better constructed, too.

amerie is on def jam now

preview, me too.

you heard the house mix of that 'im fine' song by mary j? very nice.... much better than the album version. i prefer a lot of the house remixes of current R&B tunes generally FWIW, cos they have a real good-times thing about them, its full on pleasurrrrre.

plus, anything is better than fucking R&B gone crunk.

and she never really did anything different until her latest album (which wasn't that different), she's just boring

nrq: Amerie's last record wasn't even released in the states. She's had a couple hits here, but she's certainly no institution.

Brainwasher OFFtm

i always hated her as a rapper anyway. she should stop rapping forever.

r&b gone crunk? thats sooooo 2003/4

there have been like 20 r&b singles with house beats this year

I like her Rev but she is dull as dishwater personality-wise

1st album is a classic tho

plus, anything is better than fucking R&B gone crunk.

also OFFtm

name them.

so i can DL them all.

the baseline mixes of j holidays bed and rihannas plz dont stop the music are good too.

"I like her Rev but she is dull as dishwater personality-wise"

bang on.

1st album was shit.

name them was in ref to "there have been like 20 r&b singles with house beats this year"

Taio Cruz!

who gives a fuck about a singer's "personality", what is this, tiger beat?

BW: Whe was dull personality-wise when she first came out. (Her first album is great, but I do like her newest one better.) Now she is absolutely thrilling to hear. This is only taking her on-record persona into account, though. She still seems kind of boring off-record.

danity kane - damaged
janet jackson - rock with u
jayms madison - room service
janet jackson - feedback
wynter gordon - surveillance
money - future
ne-yo - closer
day 26 - got me goin

there are others I can't remember at the mo, but it's totally the new trend since "way i are"

id never use 'thrilling' to describe estelle. she has good songs (given to/written for her) but as a vocalist shes quite unexciting.

I was talking about Amerie.

oh. well there is something oddly distinct about estelle regardless. i kind of like that she cant sing that well, although live its pretty obvious her singers are doing a lot of the hard lifting.

you heard the house mix of that 'im fine' song by mary j? No!! whose remix is it??

I'm more into the "R&B singles with house beats" than I am most house remixes...my thing is more to get people dancing to house when they don't realize it..."I hear Kanye's voice!! let's dance."

i think only a house-friendly crowd will always respond to remixes no matter how popular the original may be...I learned that with the bob sinclar remix of "please don't stop the music" (very unnecessary)

xpost 1st album was totally not shit! " Float," " Why Do We Fall In Love," " All I Have", "I Just Died," " Talkin To Me"... great album.

and yeah people care about personality... anyway I just brought it up to explain why Amerie doesn't sell.

Kelis is a different story, I agree she has been mismanaged but she does sell for the most part and she has a semi-hit everytime she comes out.

danity kane - damaged
janet jackson - rock with u
jayms madison - room service
janet jackson - feedback
wynter gordon - surveillance
money - future
ne-yo - closer
day 26 - got me goin

good list, don't forget rihanna, britney's whole album, "feedback" by janet (at least in the same vein as way i are)

"I hear Kanye's voice!! let's dance."

o_O if anyone has ever actually thought/said this

ameries 1st album>>>>the more recent ones.

rihannas PDSTM is the best R&B single of 08 IMO.

my reaction to kanye now is more like ""I hear Kanye's voice!! im a bit sick of this guy now."

great work on shitting up the thread, cheers.

xp woops re "feedback"

also, "Take Control" by Amerie is the jam of all jams, fwiw

n/p

i mean this is all vintage material, but totally irrelevant.

xp to Bmore: I don't think the point is Kanye's voice so much as its signifier of a hiphop/r&b context rather than a dahnce context.

fwiw, I love all of Amerie's albums, just some moreso than others

I'm hoping Lil Jon takes this up a la "The Anthem" and just goes head first into a house/crunk movement

seriously what's better than "The Anthem" answer nothing

stfu

sorry, i love music

there are sort of two trends going on right now in r&B - snap-type stuff (e.g. "touch my body"), and totally synthed-out, house/trance-type stuff (" love in this club," " killa" , anything produced by the runners & ryan leslie, all the songs I mentioned upthread..)

As much as I love Pitbull, it kinda saddens me to see "The Anthem" doing better than "Calabria 2007" (which, soz Preview, is much better) on the US charts.

clusterfuck thread about r&b music>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>clusterfuck thread about estelle's race

i didn't believe my brother the other night when he told me that that pitbull joint isn't a mashup

uh it's not about her race.

xpost

great post

both are pretty good imo but i like 'calabria' better

It seems that, "The Way I Are" aside, there's actually kind of a weird divide between the 4x4-beat house stuff and trance-synth stuff, which seems to go more for a slow, opulent, crunk-based half-beat feel.

Lil Jon's "verse" on "The Anthem" is like the greatest most hilariously amazing thing I've ever heard in my life. It's glorious.

and yeah "Calabria" blah blah but you're post above about r&pop signifiers is so OTM for this conversation i almost want to quote you against yourself

I guess "Low" might be a faster exception, but the beat is still crunk-based, rather than house-based. xp to myself

Oh, and add Charlie Wilson's "Let It Go" to the list of 4x4 r&b singles.

yeah you're probably right, "love in this club" is more crunk than house

gap band charlie wilson? lol

yea the two styles have different points of influence or whatever, I think the new usher, all that new synthy shit is taking its cues from euro trance and slowing it way down, like borrowing the sound of the synths and even sampling them (wiz khalifa) but the other side is more of an early 80s dance/pop/r&b influence

but yeah I totally agree that there are two parallel trends that might not really have much to do with each other

i think the 4x4 angle is getting a little overplayed, esp. as far as singles go-- i mean what are the biggest r&b songs on the radio right now? "with you", "bleeding love", "like you'll never see me again", "no air"? none of these are really breaking any ground

xxp: that's him, I posted it in rolling r&b if you want to hear. It's alright, not great.

the biggest are "i remember," "falsetto," "sexy can i","love in the club" and "like you'll never see me"

love in this club and like that new mario song don't seem that out of the ordinary or that much like crunk to me-- just good r&bish songs but nothing worthy of trendwatching as far as polow goes

"falsetto" and "love in this club" being the on-trend ones, "like you'll never see me again" and "i remember" = pretty standard ballads.

sarge: Well, of course. There are always going to be vanilla ballads on r&b radio, but that's not really a trend so much as a fact of life.

What's "I Remember"?

do any of the ones just mentioned fit into the "Please don't stop the music" 4x4 trend? isn't "with you" like chris brown's country song ???

keyshia cole

and the way i are and don't stop the music aren't r&b songs and it's kinda stupid for people to treat them as such imo just because they are done by vaguely r&B artists

nope, none fit the 4/4 trend... but you should check out "ditch that" by the-dream if you haven't heard it

yeah some of the album tracks on love/hate and that new ne-yo song are more of where i see the 4x4 trend

love that song

xp house pretty much is r&b though

Sarge: they aren't really, but their certainly being listened to and absorbed by r&b audiences and more importantly, r&b artists. Also, "Sexyback" is the true starting point of this trend.

"My Love" !!!!

for both trends maybe

sarge how are they not R&B

of those two i could only buy the way i are as r&b because of tim's past and cuz keri hilson is on it, 'please don't stop the music' isn't that far away from 's.o.s.' or 'break it off' or other stuff that rihanna has done

"My Love" = starting point of the trance-synth side of the coin, but "Sexyback" for the 4x4 beat. (Then Timbo got the great idea to combine the two for "The Way I Are".)

yeah "my love" was kind of the start of this whole trance&b thing no?

I can see why sarge wouldn't consider DSTM R&B, since Rihanna is pretty much a pure pop singer

yo americans, if you're so big up on this house r&b stuff, you guys should check out some of the biggest R&B singles in the UK: Kelly Rowland - Work (Freemasons Remix) and Taio Cruz - Come On Girl

as for what rev says about r&b people consuming those songs-- if youre talking about radio i think that's only because urban top 40 and pop radio have some type of overlap, i mean the station here that plays ruben studdard and gerald levert would never play don't stop the music or the way i are where as the stations that play flo rida and miley cyrus play those two all day

love in this club is basically a rip of my love imo-- the way the synths are so layered in the first 5 seconds of both, its almost identical

Okay, so where do things like "Sensual Seduction" and "I'm So High/"She's So Fly" fit into this picture?

well the station that plays reuben studard and gerald levert is like.. urban ac.. which isn't really the go-to format for cutting edge music... but "Way I Are" got played on Ryhthmic/R&B and Urban stations.. as well as top 40/pop.

i think both are great though xp

as for tim-- i've noticed more of like, i don't even know what you'd call it ( i always think of the way he stutters the drums), but like on "ayo technology" or "ice box" or "anonymous" or "elevator". those are the songs i think of when i think of tim's style/trend of the past few years, not really "sexy back" or even the furtado stuff

xp tot he rev: that shit's all coming from Miami

(maybe not geographically but that whole Miami sound which can probably be associated with what we're calling trance/crunk whatever)

"i'm so high" has a sort of electro thing going on, but I guess sonically it would fit with the trance&b type stuff

I would buy the whole "My Love" thing except that it's almost twice as FAST as all the other shit in the trance-crunk trend...

fwiw, the r&b radio station here would never in a million years play Studdard or Levert (or Cyrus), but they certainly have played the hell out of "The Way I Are", and to a lesser extent, "Don't Stop the Music".

Also, "Love in the Club" is totally influenced by other things that have come out since "My Love". There's more than a year's worth of influence cycles left out of that equation.

sensual seduction is kind of just a straight t-pain rip that could only be pulled off by a dude with a weird history like snoop-- musically it's not that far off from like 'bartender' or something

i love i'm so high because it sounds kinda timeless to me-- it could be from 3 years ago or 3 weeks ago or 3 years from now imo. no vocoder, no 4x4 shit etc.

re: Miami

see: the Runners, Cool & Dre, and now Shawty Redd (not from MIA I know) is really running with that sound...big washy wynths, 120ish bpms, smooth vibe a la "Sensual seduction" it's VIBE music and it rules, watch Lil Wayne get way into this sound

this is getting confusing now

yeah it is lol

yeah matrix otm re miami sound-- it's more of a vibe, esp in the airy synths. that ball greezy track is another

I don't know if I consider it a "miami sound" per se because Timbo, The-Dream, Polow, Ryan Leslie, etc. aren't from miami

and they've all done that smooth, syhth-washed sound

yes that Grindmode is a perfect example of what I'm talking about...notice Rick Ross's whole album sounds like this besides one Bink production

and Ball greezy, and that Static ft. Wayne, and Shawty Redd "Drifter"

"My Love" is 60 bpm!

otm re Miami as the center of the trance-crunk thing, tho

Lollipop doesn't really sound like that at all though!

the thing that i think is the difference between grind mode/ball greezy/lollipop/whatever we are calling "miami sound" is the simplicity, like polow/dream stuff is just way busier (not nec in a bad way), but that's what really struck me about "i'm so high"

Lollipop = "Low" + T-Pain

also spaciousness in the miami stuff

wait low has t-pain on it

Ryan Leslie I'll give you but the otehr stuff is different, it's more of a disco/rnb throwback stuff, which obviously blew up with "Sensual Seduction" but has been bubbling with a bunch of tracks that come more from RnB than they do from hip hop or crunk

"My Love" is 120 bpm in my book

aaaaannnndd "Lollipop" = some weird exception that I have not yet wrapped my head around

it's really cute watching you guys try to conflate about 5 different trends being followed by 50 different artists into one tidy narrative.

so what I'm saying is "Love in this club" et al DO NOT EQUAL "miami sound"

why do you hate fun alex

alex in b'more:
http://www.rondak.org/Images/publicfigs/cop4.jpg

wait til "Miami Vice" gets dropped as Weezy's second single (fingers crossed)...see rolling ringtone for a link

I don't think anyone's trying to squash this all into one narrative.

wait low has t-pain on it

-- J0rdan S., Friday, March 28, 2008 8:53 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

yo this was amazing

I don't know if I can agree with you guys painting the "miami sound" as cool and breezy - where does "i'm so hood" fit in? "the boss"? "we takin over"? hell, "drifter" is pretty intense - and isn't shawty redd from atl?

just cuz it comes from MIA doesnt mean it has to fit this sound we're talking about

guyz, it is hella snowing all of a sudden

but you referenced the runners as one of the creators of this sound and they produced 2 of those songs

where does "i'm so hood" fit in? "the boss"? "we takin over"?

yeah, this is the stuff I'm thinking of as "the Miami sound". That epic Runners/Cool & Dre sweep.

well an i'm so hood/the boss etc are straight rap, whereas lollipop/im so high/shone are not. i wouldn't lump the ross album in with those, though that has a distinct miami sounds, but it's distinct miami rap

it's an actual trend that is emerging, I think, but it's not like you go to miami and all you hear is "I'm So High" or anything...that's all part of it, Rick Ross is on the remix, his album sounds like all this stuff, its a movement not a genre,it encompasses different styles

also add "All That Money" to miami sound

polow/dream/atl has way more of a back catalog to look at as far as r&b contemp r&b songs than does miami, which i'm only referencing as the three i brought up already

yea matrix otm re: all that money

yeah but they've shifted along with Shawty Redd to a more vibey sound, I mean SHawty Redd went from Jeezy's first album to "Sensual Seduction"!!! there's clearly something goin on there...

xp about the runners

whats "all that money"?

and I'm going to have to check out rick ross' album

all that money: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=076BFf7Ekgs

it's great! xp trilla

one of my fave songs of the year-- i've been telling people it sounds like sensual seduction-- it just has that same vibe, really light and breezy (no vocoder though)

lots of xps: yeah, but that Miami rap sound carries over to stuff like "Lollipop" (haha I forgot T-Pain was on there, good calling me out you fucker) and "Love In the Club", not so much something like "I'm So High" (which seems to take its cues from "Sensual Seduction") and let's pretend there's some huge impenetrable barrier between rap & r&b, ffs.

yeah trilla is actually really good-- idk why people are hating on it so much esp. after his last album got the "dont wanna like this but i do" treatment

I should add "Driter" in too when I say "Sensual Seduction".

at least we can all agree that everything mentioned in this thread is better than 'american boy'

woah @ this dro song, damn.

I'm going to have to hear the Rick Ross album now, too.

yea I think the confusion is that Miami blew up as a RAP crew ie: Khaled tracks

but there is also something else going on that may or may not be influencing that rap crew

where does "i'm so hood" fit in? "the boss"? "we takin over"?

except for "Love in This Club" : D : D : D

oops, wrong quote.

one mo gain

at least we can all agree that everything mentioned in this thread is better than 'american boy'

-- J0rdan S., Friday, March 28, 2008 2:06 PM (Friday, March 28, 2008 2:06 PM) Bookmark Link

except for "Love in This Club" : D : D : D

drove around LA all last week with nothing but Trilla, a Johnny Thunders comp and citizen Steely Dan disc 4...Trilla got some serious burn

HELLA snowing

yeah trilla is gonna be rap album of the summer for me

oh wau "All That Money". Seems the beat is probably more Miami Bass than anything else we've been talking about.

I guess there's some of that in the "Drifter"-through-"I'm So High" strain.

if dro releases "all that money" as a single its going top 10

I would politely disagree with that, but I'll be hoping you're right cuz dro is my ninja

yeah its wishful thinking but it should be number one summer jam imo, and he has name recognition at least

have you guys heard the "touch my body" remix with ross and the-dream? it's massive.

StayGDUp109 (5 days ago) +10 Reply | Spam
u shoulda put a pic of mariah carey not rick ross fat ass lol

I'm kinda tempted to agree with whoever said the trance influence is > than the snap/crunk in R&B upthread even if those two are on the remix, because I have no been feeling this Mariah song....is it a club song?? I don't get it...

dl'ing the remix now though

walruses are hawt

ok crazy trance synths on this but with a weird snap-ish beat...definitely hadn't given this a proper listen

'touch my body' is probably my favorite single of the year

mine too

xps: It's not that snap&b is bad, but that "Touch My Body" isn't exactly a shining standard for it.

taking sides: snap&b vs. trancecrunk

or we could just talk about Estelle "American Boy"

lol we totally derailed this thread.

rolling "Miami sound"

cassie - thirsty

BW: as if the Brits hadn't already completely derailed it.

true.

cassie - thirsty

-- The Brainwasher, Friday, March 28, 2008 4:29 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

somebody send a smoke signal tape store's way

That Cassie song is quite alright.

xp:hahaha

cassie herself is quite alright....

^^^ENLIGHTENING^^^

I do have to lol at Kanye using Briticisms.

round here we say birds, not bitches.

ok anyway to drag this back on topic, here's some even more stupid bullshit:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/rupa_huq/2008/03/paint_it_black.html

Then further back in pop time there was the Stock Aitken and Waterman teaboy Rick Astley who legend had it was discovered singing along whil doing the dishes at the record company. Initial releases by him were distributed on mysterious white label 12-inch singles (this was the 1980s). Consequently, he was thought to be an implicitly black philly crooner. When it emerged that he was actually a pasty-faced whiteboy from Warrington, his cred factor plummeted although he still sold well. The incident begs the question, would "safe" Rick Astley have been signed to the SAWmill as singing act, or teaboy even, if he'd have been a different colour? The argument propagated by Estelle suggests that there are double standards at work.

what the fuck is he trying to say about rick astley here? i'm totally at a loss. the accusation that SAW are so racist they wouldn't even employ a black person as a teaboy is presumably actionable.

the last paragraph is really badly worded in terms of making a case -- it uses daily mail language -- "ethnic minorities need only apply" -- to try to make an anti-racist case. and of course it overlooks class.

Wow!!!
This trucker is gonna have hits.
Never heard him but no doubt will.

What are the drums like? Snare hopefully not a soggy peach?

Does it do any sweep picking?

That Astley/SAW piece is pretty silly on a number of levels. One is that SAW worked with a number of black artists, eg Princess, so clearly the answer is yes they probably would have signed Astley if he was a different colour. Two, Astley wasn't 'pasty-faced'. He was reasonably good looking and marketable as a pop star.

It is true, I think, that the initial promo pressing of 'Never Gonna Give You Up' was disguised to appear as if it was an American import, but I think SAW just wanted to encourage the people on the soul scene into thinking it was a proper black American record so it would build up the buzz on the track. It was just stage one in a marketing campaign aimed at getting the record into the charts.

It's funny because Astley doesn't sound black - in the same way that Michael McDonald doesn't sound black. They are white singers singing in a black idiom, but subtleties in their delivery and the tonality of their voices make it apparent they are white. Nor does the record sound particularly American. It's a good record which, although it has some similarities with the style of Colonel Abrams' 'Trapped', nevertheless sounds very SAW.

"Rick Astley, great stuff, I just bought it on my way here. You heard it?"

"Never. I mean, I don't really like singers."

"Not a big music fan, huh ?"

"No, I like music. Just he's... Rick's's too... black sounding for me."

The Rupa Huq piece is bollocks through and through but I'm going to give the Enrique attack dog the benefit of the doubt that he didn't just assume that piece was written by a bloke.

(Meanwhile thank you The Reverend for making the post upthread that I was too restrained to make).

no prob, bro

this thread is so beautiful...I never even saw any of that Brit race stuff until just now wtf

also lol @ banriquit "dragging this thread back on topic" and talking about some totally unrelated shit

The answer to the thread title is... THAT GOOD

man shut the fuck up "preview of the matrix 12"

-- and what, Saturday, 29 March 2008 00:09 (1 hour ago)

It's funny because Astley doesn't sound black - in the same way that Michael McDonald doesn't sound black. They are white singers singing in a black idiom, but subtleties in their delivery and the tonality of their voices make it apparent they are white.

i figured Astley was black when i first heard the song on the radio. like i said above some people out there probably make the same assumption when they hear 'Mercy' and even 'Chasing Pavements' (tho it may be harder these days to hear such artists before you see them).

Nor does the record sound particularly American.

disagree here too! it seemed pretty obvious what SAW were trying to do but i thought they pulled it off well - it may be harder to see that with so much hindsight. let's not forget they fooled a hell of a lot of people with 'Roadblack' too (big support from soul boy purists and the like, oblivious to who was behind it - but that wasn't a colour issue, just a credibility one - there was a difference).

Roadblack

worst freudian slip ever?

lol

i figured Astley was black when i first heard the song on the radio

i was six or seven when it came out -- i honestly don't think this kind of think was part of the way i thought about music. i don't think i had an opinion one way or another, and obviously i had no sense of 'credibility' at that time.

i agree with dubmill that astley was not in any way "trying to sound to sound black", and with the implication that to think about music that way, as huq does, is usually stoopid geirthink. how does it apply to the massive number of bands influenced by dub reggae?

'never gonna give you up' sounds like what it is rly. as does the (significantly worse) 'chasing pavements'.

tbh i think there is a lot of racism in britain -- though not so much of the hyperbolic, psychotic kind brought up in lex's article -- but the state of the charts is one of the last places i'd look for evidence of it.

big support from soul boy purists and the like

Yes, but cloth-eared ones in my opinion. Similarly I will always remember Robbie Vincent raving about Galaxy's 'Dancing Tight' in 1983, saying what a marvellous antidote it was to all the drum machines and synthesizers that were taking over soul music (whereas 'Dancing Tight' is in fact drum machine and synth all the way).

'Never Gonna Give You Up' is a great record but I still maintain it doesn't sound particularly American. That's not hindsight because I remember hearing it on the radio at the time and thinking the same thing. The verse is fine but when it goes into the chorus it's pure jaunty SAW pop (something about the chord progression, perhaps?).

With regard to 'Roadblock', I've actually forgotten what SAW wanted people to think it was. Was it supposed to be a rare groove or the work of American funkers of the time? Either way it's a record I've never liked.

i think 'roadblock' sounds pretty unlike any records being made in the US in 1987. it's all a bit reined in, kind of thing; the guitar is pure english ponytailed session dude. you could argue it's trying to sound like go-go ('cross the tracks'), with the sax.

It is like shit Go-Go, yeah. One of the least artistically successful SAW tracks, ironically. Serious "SS Paparazzi" is the better instrumental.

Yes, but cloth-eared ones in my opinion

well i'm going largely by a Trevor Nelson anecdote here, make of that what you will. he can't have been that old at the time either tho and may have just been quoting from elsewhere himself. i guess with 'Roadblack' it was only a cred issue as it sounds like a lot of UK jazz-funk from 5-15 years earlier - which was the point I guess.

i hated NGGYU at the time, but liked 'Stop To Love' and 'Criticise' - maybe the latter two did sound more modern and exotic (American) and NGGYU too much of a tribute to a less fashionable sound.

but i was only 9 myself so it's not like i had all that worked out at the time. still "oh i thought he/she would be black", based on what you hear is always interesting (to me) in terms of whether it begets disappointment (credibility/authenticity issues), relief (dubious as that may sound, pleasure from expectations being confounded in this way or validation/confidence issues ala 'good that a white artist can do this as well as (not better than) a black artist') or indifference (probably the ideal).

too bad Huq herself can't tell the difference between Robert Plant and Robert Palmer...she also negates the success of Cornershop and White Town in the same year as Kula Shaker (one hit wonders tho both may be considered).

the kula shaker stuff was bad carmodizing.

Notice when Family Guy did "Never Gonna Give You Up" it was Brian singing it, not Cleveland.

Just sayin'.

I always has Cleveland down as more of a You Spin Me Round kinda guy.

she was just on later with jools, followed directly after by adele. dunno why she had a deejay in her band - sounds crap, and kano was esp pointless (and offbeat) on american boy.

Still the best thing on that miserable programme, but seeing as the competition was Adele, Black Keys and James Taylor how difficult was that?

"Fire and Water" > "American Boy"

I don't think I heard Astley on the radio prior to seeing the video so never had the opportunity to test the "does he sound black or white?" thing. Tell you what, though, one person whom I was genuinely surprised about - Richard Darbyshire. Convinced he was black when I heard the eponymous Living in a Box record on the Sunday chart run-down, v. surprised on seeing him on TOTP the following Thursday.

Black Keys

Black Kids actually, who were brilliant live. Nice people too.

but I still maintain it doesn't sound particularly American

C'mon, Dubmill - the bassline is lifted from Colonel Abrams' "Trapped" for chrissakes!

Still the best thing on that miserable programme, but seeing as the competition was Adele, Black Keys and James Taylor how difficult was that?

You forgot The Only Ones, with Peter Perrett appearing as Syd Barrett's partially mummified corpse. Estelle, not much of a singer, live. But she came in at the last minute, so maybe a bit under-rehearsed.

id like american boy if it was a bit more lush. hopefully one of the remixes has correct this.

*corrected

Black SHIT morelike

I mistook The Only Ones for Lenny Henry.

I'd like "American Boy" more if Lush had done it.

but I still maintain it doesn't sound particularly American

C'mon, Dubmill - the bassline is lifted from Colonel Abrams' "Trapped" for chrissakes!

I did mention the similarity to that record, but just because you model a track on something American doesn't mean that the end result sounds American. If you compare the two the Colonel Abrams is much harder and grittier - not necessarily in the mix or eq of the sounds they have in common, but the mood created by chord progressions and other sounds (eg NGGYU has swathes of sweet strings instead of the thinner, cold synth strings on 'Trapped'). 'Trapped' sounds catchy but a bit menacing. NGGYU sounds much more jaunty, cheerful and inimitably SAW.

Estelle, not much of a singer, live

I didn't see her TV appearance but it doesn't surprise me. Some of her singing on the record is a bit iffy. It doesn't matter of course because it's a great record.

The Only Ones were frightening.

A bit shit, really, the Only Ones, weren't they, in general?

No they fucking weren't, they were ossum

Anorexic Ronnie Wood squeaking the vocals was a bit much, aye.

Pleasant but kind of meh. I spent her whole Jools Holland performance last night transfixed by her enormous eyes and slightly Alien-esque hairdo.

Sorry, Tom, I remember Ossum very well, you're not getting away with that - they were on The Beechgrove Garden every Christmas.

"Estelle, not much of a singer, full stop"

she can carry a tune, just about. shes just lucky she has pretty robust tunes to carry.

I liked "Whispering Grass."

American Boy would be better w/a Windsor Davies rap fer shure.

Aha, <i>that's</i> what "American Boy" reminds me of...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CK-f-Hhij4

(And if you can't be arsed to click, it reminds me of Dr Buzzard's "Cherchez La Femme".)

Massive xpost, but SAW's "Roadblock" was one of THE big tunes at Notting Hill Carnival in 1987, and this was after SAW had been identified as the artists. I was there for several hours on both days, wafting between the sound systems, and it was second only to "Cross The Tracks" in ubiquity. Make of that what you will!

Still reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDNAQAYhvmo

follow the b-line solely and it sounds like a whole bunch of stuff

follow the song and dr buzzards no question

BUT in any case -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XMKkIRcKsA

will i am channelling ca$hley cole for the sequel pwns this out of the water on every possible level omg

why has no one commented on how this is exactly the same backing track as will i am's impatient? (then again i dont know if will i am produced american boy or not - maybe he did, the cheap bastard).

He produced both. He is a cheap bastard.

he did produce it, and you could've saved yourself the trouble of posting with a quick ctrl f + "impatient" of the thread.

(xpost)

its ok. it wasnt any trouble.

http://www.zingassociates.co.uk/images/zing-lemons.jpg

this song sucks

-- J0rdan S., Friday, 28 March 2008 10:11 (1 month ago) Link

what the hell is wrong with you

this is for people who like sara bareilles

not to mention that estelle's voice is annoying and the song has kanye at his most cloying and annoying

BIG HOOS aka the yael naim fan

BIG HOOS aka the dude who's wrong about "American Boy" because this shit sucks

kanye is actually the best thing about it. id like an all kanye version with estelle just on the hook. which is sort of what it is anyway but still...

i like this song.

it makes me want to fly in an airplane

new single is :D

i love american boy.

I like American Boy a lot. I heard the mix without Kanye and it falls flat, so yes...Kanye actually is the best thing about. The song she does with Cee-Lo on the album is probably the best thing associated with her right now, though.

HAAA i never saw this thread, well done all my pet haterzzz

are you back for good now or...

Kanye totally @ his most cloying and disingenuous but the fact that you know he's just making shit up to get the girl is what makes it so endearing. Homie comes off like one of my bros misrepresenting himself at a bar.

ha true, still don't like this song tho

The way Kanye says rrrrubbish with enormous quotey fingers and a hueg wink makes me so fucking angry every time.

Kanye totally @ his most cloying and disingenuous but the fact that you know he's just making shit up to get the girl is what makes it so endearing. Homie comes off like one of my bros misrepresenting himself at a bar.

-- BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, June 6, 2008 7:25 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Link

I don't totally understand what you mean -- he's a big star on a sold out tour, talking about being a big star on a sold out tour, which might be annoying but isn't really disingenuous or misrepresenting.

Most of this album is great; I never came around to this track, tho.

I'm not even that into this song but I'm gonna be so depressed if it loses to Tyga in this silly poll: http://idolator.com/396653/your-summer-jam-tournament-update-voters-sure-like-shaking-their-coconuts

this album is pretty good if you take "American Boy" off of it

reread this thread and figured out the missing ingredient in the drifter/sensual seduction/i'm so high stuff is freestyle

this song has been in my head all morning

this album is pretty good if you take "American Boy" off of it

-- The Reverend, Thursday, July 31, 2008 7:13 AM (2 weeks ago)

"come over," "in the rain," "back in love," "pretty please (love me)" (!!!).. if she could sing a bit better i'd like the album even more. really good stuff.

The way Kanye says rrrrubbish with enormous quotey fingers and a hueg wink makes me so fucking angry every time.

-- Whiney G. Weingarten, Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:41 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Link

Uh, there's a half dozen examples of Brit idiom here; why get mad at this one?

This song triggers some really hard realizations for me, In a lot of ways I see myself as that American boy.

so basically you're saying that whiney's opinion is rrrrubbish

Basically, yeah. I think Kanye's really funny and quotable on this track.

Like Mike at his baddest
Like the Pips at they Gladys

This song triggers some really hard realizations for me, In a lot of ways I see myself as that American boy.

-- If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up,

lolz

Thanks, Brainwasher. Been tryin' to get that to catch.

this is one of those songs where ppl seem like they're trying real hard to come up w/ arbitrary-ass reasons to dislike it, aka 'some dude' disease

This, "YAHHH" or however the fuck you spell it and "Let the Beat Build" are my favorite songs this year. That's. It.

my arbitrary reason is that I wish I was listening to almost anything else when I hear it

Awww.

sorry dude, but I really fucking hate this shit

it makes me cuss

I see!

I do like all the other songs on her album tho!

haha the song being dumb (as in, it makes estelle seem dumb and childish) and annoying are arbitrary-ass reasons deej

it makes me proud to be an american boy

i get a halfy when she says "i'm gonna like whats underneath them"

also kanye on that song

what's your unarbitrary reasons for liking it

I get a cringe at said line. So clunky and unsexy. Missy would have handled that so much better. xp

Speaking as a well-known Kanye fanboy, this is the most annoying Kanye's ever been.

Yr a fanboy?

id consider myself a kanye fanboy but i really wish he'd gtfo of this song

http://www.jasonbarbacovi.com/images/fan_man_2_s.JPG

not a fanboy, not yet a fan_man

kanye is both funny great ("rrruuubbish") and funny awful ("before he speak his suit bespoke") on this

"tell 'em wha gwaan blud!" is the best pop moment of 08

"rrrruuubbbbish" and "ca-ah-assh" nearly ruin this but don't.

the cash line is the best bit of kanye's rap, it's reassuring and conspiratorial

this is one of those songs where ppl seem like they're trying real hard to come up w/ arbitrary-ass reasons to dislike it, aka 'some dude' disease

-- deej, Thursday, August 14, 2008 4:09 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Link

lol i was going to argue with this until I remembered that my biggest criticism of "American Boy" is that it reminds of the theme from Green Acres.

apple + f reveals that deej has yet to give a reason at to why he like this song

egchk my 9 am sentence construction and spelling are worse than normal

we do have this though

---

kanye sounds sad :(

-- deej, Friday, March 28, 2008 2:51 PM (4 months ago) Bookmark Link

he's a lot bloody happier on this than he is on 'put on' or like half of graduation

i don't mind this song so much but when it's high up on all the year-end lists i'm gonna whine and grumble. and possibly harrumph.

how does kanye sound sad!? is this one of those things where people hear every song since his mom died as being about that or affected by that even if his verse might've been recorded before that ever happened?

if you hate this song u hate fun sorry

Estelle needs to stfu with all this "When American rappers say that the UK can't be ghetto, I take them to HOLLOWAY ROAD" shit as well.

^^dont know what this means; dont care ♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♪♪♫

this song isn't remotely fun

Estelle needs to stfu with all this "When American rappers say that the UK can't be ghetto, I take them to HOLLOWAY ROAD" shit as well

Perhaps she took 50 Cent to the Swimmer for some seared duck breast and quails egg salad.

^^dont know what this means; dont care ♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♪♪♫

-- gr8080, Thursday, August 14, 2008 8:37 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

xp :(

this song isn't remotely fun

challopian boy

It's the number one challopian sound
Yeah, Estelle we about to get down

as said before, the general throwback jazzy sophistopop vibe of this is good - dr buzzard's i'd said before, but chuck swing out sister or freeez in there too i guess - but, to be frank, estelle has been an annoying uk gobshite flop for years and years and years now, and the thought of her being all smug about her supposedly rightful success is enough to kill this tune dead. so yeah, dom otm basically.

also the ppl who get all happy about the excruciating uk refs - SHOOT ON SIGHT.

"tell 'em wha gwaan blud!" is the best pop moment of 08

-- lex pretend, Thursday, 14 August 2008 10:19 (7 hours ago) Bookmark Link

chk-chk, BOOM

i prefer 'Wait A Minute (Just A Touch)'

New HHC has Excalibah interviewing Blak Twang and there's three or four references to "off the record discussions" between the two about how Estelle got her US connex. Anyway fancy rumourmongering?

xxp

also the ppl who get all happy about the excruciating uk refs - SHOOT ON SIGHT.

-- r|t|c, Thursday, 14 August 2008 17:22 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

F'real.

UK trying too hard to be ghetto again.

dentists be cheaper there?

kinda amazed the reverend hates this btw

ain't my problem if you dudes like irredeemably wack obnoxious bullshit

ok rtc but you still shouldn't be hating on the last verse of the "Get Silly" remix

yeah rev that's what i thought you liked!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_One_with_Ross%27s_Wedding,_Part_One

dentists be cheaper dentists be cheaper rtc lookin boy

oh ha didn't realize you didn't like this either haha

this song is nice. it's just some light breezy lil' summer song. i don't get why dudes are so bullhurt about it.

anyone have a problem with the production on this or is it just lyrical qualms?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZIyEFONms8

^^ throwing get silly rmx open to the general british public

3 missed calls and i'll change my mind

i like the production fine, rev otm when he said 'impatient' was better though

this song is nice. it's just some light breezy lil' summer song. i don't get why dudes are so bullhurt about it.

-- M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, August 14, 2008 4:30 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

this

yeah...i don't like it much, but my distaste for it isn't very strong, and sometimes i'll listen to it and enjoy it a little...but it's pretty obvious that there are a lot of cultural factors at work when brits argue forever about this song, not really a mystery there.

this is still a great song with a jazzy vibe and as a result i will forgive kanye's terrible lines

anyone have a problem with the production on this or is it just lyrical qualms?

-- blueski, Thursday, August 14, 2008 9:32 AM (Thursday, August 14, 2008 9:32 AM) Bookmark Link

naw, no problem with the production (although I liked it better as house than as pop), but I have as much or more problem with the vocal performances as with the lyrics

before he speak big hoos bespoke

anyways this song ain't about grumpin' around, just embrace the silliness and the beat. i like alla kanye's pseudo bloke bullshit. it's kinda funny/kinda lame in a charming way...

what the fuck kind of position is "this song is just fun don't get butthurt"? shouldn't we all like morningwood then?

don't see you all telling us to stfu and listen to metro station

estelle's voice is annoying and the lyrics make her sound really dumb, those are two pretty valid reasons to not like this song

the rest of you are inching close to or have achieved sub-matt armstrong status, congratulations

haha we got ourselves a burgeoning hardman here

i mean i agree on all points, fwiw

still lolling at the Green Acres comment!

haha someone please tell me I'm not the only one who hears it!

anyways this song ain't about grumpin' around, just embrace the silliness and the beat. i like alla kanye's pseudo bloke bullshit. it's kinda funny/kinda lame in a charming way...

-- M@tt He1ges0n, Thursday, August 14, 2008 5:35 PM (42 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

what the fuck kind of position is "this song is just fun don't get butthurt"? shouldn't we all like morningwood then?

-- J0rdan S., Thursday, August 14, 2008 5:57 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

don't see you all telling us to stfu and listen to metro station

-- J0rdan S., Thursday, August 14, 2008 5:57 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i don't even know what morningwood and metro station are there chief.

aight i'm out. keep fighting the good fight.

they are "fun" rock bands

estelle's voice is annoying and the lyrics make her sound really dumb, those are two pretty valid reasons to not like this song

there's a catchy summery house beat and estelle's voice is serviceable and utterly unremarkable, which is all i need out of a house song in the middle of fuckin august. that's more than enough reason for me to like this. lol @ lyric crit

New HHC has Excalibah interviewing Blak Twang and there's three or four references to "off the record discussions" between the two about how Estelle got her US connex. Anyway fancy rumourmongering?

omg did she fuck a dude to get ahead?!? how terrifically unfair to the rest of your nation

the lyrics dont make her sound dumb.

seriously whats dumb about them? guys in rap do that kind of objectification all the time. this is pretty gentle stuff really

they make her sound dumb (nb: I don't actually believe that, what I really think is that they make her sound awkward rather than dumb, but to use the argument at hand) because she can't carry them off

there's a catchy summery house beat and estelle's voice is serviceable and utterly unremarkable, which is all i need out of a house song in the middle of fuckin august. that's more than enough reason for me to like this. lol @ lyric crit

-- BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 14 August 2008 18:22 (1 hour ago) Link

I've said this before, but it was much better when it WAS just a catchy, summery house jam.

i love this song so much, and everytime this thread bumps i start singing it!

she can't carry them off

-- The Reverend, Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:47 PM (23 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

I don't agree, I think she delivers them with a coyness appropriate to an essentially insubstantial summer crush on a boy who'll be leaving when the season ends. It's an infatuation, why should we expect lyrics or a delivery with emotional depth when infatuation is all about surface obsession?

the fuck-it blaness of the vox sounds right on to me

(wait but are you guys talking about some remix or something? i don't know remixes)

there was a neat remix on palm out - the Estaw American Grill Fix

the fuck-it blaness of the vox sounds right on to me

-- Surmounter, Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:56 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

yes!!

lawl

Estelle and Adele are reportedly planning on collaborating.

The pair, each nominated for Grammy Awards this year, are keen to record a song together.

Both artists are currently working on their new albums and Estelle has said that working with the 'Chasing Pavements' singer would be "dope".

"I'm really excited to start working on my next album," she told The Sun. "I'm going to go totally left field and surprise a lot of people.

"I'm going to hit it out the ball park with this one. I’m thinking a mix of Coldplay and Marvin Gaye."

Gayeplay

I don't agree, I think she delivers them with a coyness appropriate to an essentially insubstantial summer crush on a boy who'll be leaving when the season ends. It's an infatuation, why should we expect lyrics or a delivery with emotional depth when infatuation is all about surface obsession?

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, August 14, 2008 12:55 PM Bookmark

You're missing what I was trying to say. I wasn't saying she needed to invest more into the lyrics, I was saying she doesn't sound believable singing them.

Also, her voice sounds shrill and harmful to my ears.

Missy would have been able to sell those lyrics, imo.

There's also the Kanye problem, too. Dude is way smackable on this track.

lol dude u crazy

I wasn't that way before this awful, awful, unlistenable, atrociously bad song.

*lazy crackpipe jibe*

I would politely disagree with that, but I'll be hoping you're right cuz dro is my ninja

― Preview of the Matrix 12, Friday, March 28, 2008 5:14 PM (8 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i still like this song

/lex

http://www.newstatesman.com/music/2008/12/estelle-british-black-paxman

^^ omg at url, preamble for another ridiculous patronizing article.

It's unfair to expect musicians to act as spokespeople for their generation, but with Estelle Swaray (she dropped the surname for showbiz reasons) it seems that black British youth has found an articulate new voice.

almost feel sorry for her as she's set up for a fall on this one. the new statesman (or guardian) never has to find a single 'articulate new voice' for white upper-middle class youth -- that would be ridiculous.

So, is there anyone on the British political stage who has inspired her? "I think Tony Blair had promise at the start." But he messed up? "He followed Bush."

estelle has nothing more or less to say about anything than any other singer, and again the whole article is a vehicle for more paternalistic grime-is-the-voice-of-the-streets bollocks.

The words and sounds that crackle from pirate radio transmitters and across broadband connections, or reverberate around dingy clubs like Mass in Brixton, south London - one of the venues where Estelle first performed - have a creativity that gives the lie to the casual dismissal of young people, of whatever race, as brainless "hoodies".

why the fuck he's going on about grime is unclear. but what is all this shit?

Racism or not, there is an insidious prejudice in British society that treats urban youth culture as the amusing result of a multicultural experiment, as opposed to a thriving reality for millions of people.

what is he talking about exactly? where is this unfair treatment of 'urban youth culture', and does he really mean millions? are they 'thriving'?

Racism or not, there is an insidious prejudice in British society that treats urban youth culture as the amusing result of a multicultural experiment, as opposed to a thriving reality for millions of people.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2008/jul/29/bouncytechnomeetsterribler

in the comments for that:

Tombot
04 Aug 08, 1:55pm

Well it's nice to know you can all sit safe in your overpriced London apartments in the knowledge that "everyone" in the North West listens to this. Now piss off and listen to some cheeky cheeky mockney songster, you fackin' slaaaag!

Maybe it's etc.

So is the music in this song sampled from Kool & The Gang (or something) or is it all original instrumentation?

when i went to london, all i could sing in my head was this song.

i would walk down the street all happy like "WHO'S KILLING THEM IN THE UUUUUUU KAY"

did the barman give you funny look when you asked for a pint of Ribena?

@billstevejim: it's will.i.am's "Impatient".

did the barman give you funny look when you asked for a pint of Ribena?

― Timezilla vs Mechadistance (blueski), Thursday, December 18, 2008 11:13 AM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I was all "look at this peacoat tell me he's broke"

I also got a new raincoat, which was close enough

I have a peacoat now, it is excellent.

feelin the fuck out of this new single w/ sean paul

i approve of more sean paul singles in 09 http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r231/Lordofsith/fonz.jpg

I have heard this song three times today (put it on on my ipod on the bus, and my co-worker has since played it twice.) I think the Pips at they Gladdyst is the best line, possibly ever.

just in case anyone was wondering, her new single prod. by david guetta is AWFUL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjBdgCndImw

such an ugly sounding song

I'm Scotland based, and a few weeks ago I met an American and ended up in his flat making out with him. He had music on and this came on on shuffle and I started giggling because I'm so immature ("omg ur my american boy lolololol") and he totally didn't get it. Plus it wasn't really that fun an experience, so now when I hear this song I can't warm to it at all.

sounded great in 2008, not so much in 2010.

new song w/ rick ross is dope imo

surprided j0rdan s hate this song so much

don't like this song (break my heart)

i still love that single w/ sean paul

really learned to love estelle via uk funky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JTS0duTEIc

"american boy" is just really sonically irritating to me -- the mix of the beat & her voice not to mention one of kanye's most annoying moments is something i just really can't stand

i don't hate estelle by any means but that's just one THOSE songs for me idk

beat is a lot uglier & like, squawkier than i remembered tbh

"american boy" is just really sonically irritating to me -- the mix of the beat & her voice not to mention one of kanye's most annoying moments is something i just really can't stand

― J0rdan S., Tuesday, April 19, 2011 12:01 AM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

nothing pre-mbtdf is one of kanye's most irritating moments imo

the beat was better on william's album

nothing pre-mbtdf is one of kanye's most irritating moments imo

― the zing cheese incident (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, April 19, 2011 1:09 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

idk you could make a legit poll out of his 'american boy' verses:

- fake british accent
- making a pun on "pound"
- onomatopoeia in the second verse
- pun on "bespoke"
- use of the word "wags"
- pun on "gladys"
- elongating the r in "rubbish"

can yall fuck w/ this new track for me its hot

can yall fuck me w/ this new track its hot

was this prod by justice league

don cannon!

ross>>>

beat is dope right??

yeah it def is

i think this is a good look for her -- "american boy" is very likely an anomaly in terms of success for her so i think it makes more sense for her to try & carve out this niche like jazmine sullivan that's sorta classicly soulful but still modern enough to get radio play

she doesn't need to be on guetta productions

^^dont know what this means; dont care ♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♪♪♫

― gr8080, Thursday, August 14, 2008 3:37 AM (2 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

seriously i'm breaking this joint w/ sean paul out for the summer

can yall fuck w/ this new track for me its hot

pro-tip, mentioning what the new track is called is helpful - maybe even adding a link to it! - when you want people to hear something

deej give me a track i will fucks with it i swear!

\oO/ jordan figured it out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPYcIxwyrzM

new album is REALLY good. so relaxed and confident. way better than i was expecting after the long time away

new album is REALLY good. granted i never paid much attention to her beyond the hits in the past, but this is impressing me.

yeah i was very taken with it on one listen. lots of intriguing choices in the first half but she's good at the more comfort blanket stuff towards the end as well

I really tried to get people into "Make Her Say (Beat It Up)" last year. THE DRUMS ARE AMAZE. Maybe now that the album's out more people will pay attention to it.

still in 2015 when i hear american boy i have to remind myself that it's not rachel stevens

never occurred to me to seek out other stuff by the actual singer, y because i am a fewl

some dude, did you begin your post with the exact wording lex used in his post two years prior on purpose? because if not, lol

lol

sad the album version of "make her say" isn't the MAKE MY PUSSY SAY vers

still in 2015 when i hear american boy i have to remind myself that it's not rachel stevens

never occurred to me to seek out other stuff by the actual singer, y because i am a fewl

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, February 18, 2015 10:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wtf tracer were you not familiar with "1980" (and her first album)? an actual minor uk hit and still the best thing she's ever done

I really liked "1980" back in the day and thought the first album was good, but the second album was a disappointment because she switched from rapping to singing, and I don't think she's particularly good or memorable as a singer. Is the third album more of the same?

sadly that is precisely what i intended to convey in my previous post lex!! years_of_missing_out_emoticon.jpg

ogmor posted this, from your friends over in the post-fahey takoma thread, this is really gorgeous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhvFg64_Gis&feature=youtu.be

her last album was so much better than "American Girl"

her theme song for the Carton Network series We Bare Bears is also so much better than "American Girl"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpfix3i6Q0o

or "American Boy," whatever, fuck that song

new album, LOVERS ROCK, out next month.

"In comparison to those of her formative years, Lover’s Rock is Estelle’s most personal album to date, as she centers in on her West Indian roots with a full-fledged reggae album. She has collaborated with esteemed Jamaican producer Supa Dups [Drake, Beenie Man], Reefa [Lil Wayne], Jerry Wonda [Wyclef Jean], Harmony Samuels [Jennifer Lopez, Ariana Grande] and more. In the forthcoming LP, Estelle has assured to fuse her signature R&B and hip-hop sound while paying homage to her Grenadian roots as she not only concentrates in reggae, but also embraces Afro-beats and Soca music."

i like the duet with luke james that came out last week:
https://soundcloud.com/estelleofficial/so-easy-feat-luke-james

her records are always good, can't wait for this one

i always loved this song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSRE8aTy5GE

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/30/641298429/first-listen-estelle-lovers-rock

maleek berry is on this record! that's so cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19SphXx3Eq8

damn

that anita baker interpolation

that song w maleek berry is awesome

the first two minutes of "Better" are phenomenal, wish it stayed in that zone the whole way, excited to hear this full album though

She sings "Take me to New York I'd like to See LA" but LA is nowhere near so she wont be able to see it from there.

they're separated by a semicolon

😌

It's a perfect lyric coming from someone idealizing the U.S. without having been there, and imagining that cities are a short hop apart.

New York and Los Angeles are two of the most iconic American cities, although the former is in New York on the East Coast and the latter in California on the West Coast, making travel between them hard. Both are also known for being notoriously expensive. However, with a net worth of $3 million USD, Estelle can certainly handle the costs.

this record is such a delight. for weeks now it's been my go-to whenever I'm not sure what to listen to next

yes!!

I posted about this song on another thread (help me identify a song thread). I somehow missed when this came out and hear it everywhere in the last year, but like, faintly in the background. And I knew I loved the song but had no clue who sang it. In the back of my mind, I always had a tickle, "this better not be fucking Kanye on this."

very good album, yes