You all have blood on your hands.

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Songs are spiderwebs and paragraphs are leafblowers.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Writing about music kills music. It's Tony Perkins' taxidermy at best.

yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Mahler liked to write about music. I guess he wouldn't know what's what though, eh?

John Darnielle, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Songs are spiderwebs and paragraphs are leafblowers

A line of silent text set against some loud song I hate would appear to render this particular assessment invalid.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Gustav Mahler? Norman Mailer. Mea culpa, Pia Zadora.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

making your argument twee as fuck does it a real disservice.

jess, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Jess you are my hero

John Darnielle, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I have NEVER encountered a single work of music -- no matter how quiet it was, how off-handedly presented, or how badly it sucked -- that was in any way changed by the fact that it was written about. Music is one thing in this world that is NOT fragile.

Don't confuse your imagined relationship with a song for the song itself, Yves.

Colin Meeder, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ha-HA! "twee" & the like is exactly the house of cards that music- writing can't help but topple.

yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

nothing is important except the relationship between the song and the listener

yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

This is another asinine DP thread, right?

Michael Daddino, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

it died = it deserved to die

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

it died = it deserved to die
ok, Friedrich Nietzsche. I prefer your brother Jack anyway.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

nothing is important except the relationship between the song and the listener

Is it OK to write about this relationship? (You just wrote about it, btw).

Mark, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Is it OK to write about this relationship?
No.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Thank you, Yves. *stares quietly off into the distance, wondering why "Chirpy Chirpy Cheep-Cheep" never calls anymore*

Colin Meeder, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No one in the world has ever been as bored as I am at this very moment. Think I'll go analyze some music just to get my hands bloody

John Darnielle, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"chirpy chirpy cheep cheep" was assassinated by simon reynolds & she will never call again.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

chirpy chirpy cheep cheep sleeps with the fishes

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Dimly I recall reading somewhere that Jack Nitzsche served time for raping a minor with the barrel of a handgun... Or did I dream this, oh ILM massive?

Also this = name of character Nicholson (over)plays in One Flew Ovah the Cuckoo's Nest? Kesey was referencing the orchestration on Phil Spector records? As the existentially pure anti-hero that the machine-system must destroy? This is superdeep!!

(What is it wiv pop producers and pistols?)

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

This has all been done before. "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture" -> clever, yet wrong. Writing about music is as valid as writing about some kid painting a fence, or politics, or art. If writing about music is wrong, then writing music about literature, philosophy or visual art is also wrong.

Dave225, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Also this = name of character Nicholson (over)plays in One Flew Ovah the Cuckoo's Nest?

Wrong. It's Randall McMurphy.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

More Songs About Buildings and Food => we're in the clear thanks to DAVID BYRNE (as long as just ONE person here admits they danced to it)

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

boo, i thought kesey was saying something clevah for once

jack nitzsche = good name for a character in a todd haynes movie

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Is "Gimme Da Weed" a spiderweb?

Sterling Clover, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

This is another asinine DP thread, right?

Anything to distract him from getting any work done. Like the rest of us.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes it is a spiderweb. Write nothing more about "Gimme Da Weed" or you will crush it neath yr jackboot, you thuggish deputy to Le Pen.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

You're Saul Williams, right?

Brian MacDonald, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Don't go chasing waterfalls, stick to the rivers and the lakes that you're used to.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Acrostic Spider Poem by Hannah aged 6

Sticky spider webs catching fly.
Poisonous spider creepy.
Insects fly in the shining webs.
Delicious spider have spotty.
Every spider make big webs.
Running around the country.
spider! spider! spider!

I was looking for a picture of ma$e but this is bettah.

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Damn right, Andrew W.K. had it coming.

Dare, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

writing about music is like masturbating into a black hole

I killed christgau with my big fuckin' dick, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

writing about music is like masturbating into a black hole

IDEAL!

Brian MacDonald, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

xo maura ox: is this ethan?
Dubplatestyle: i never thought about it, but it has to be.

jess, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

you know, brian, the black hole wouldnt turn white

Chupa-Cabras, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I would like someone to name any piece of music criticism that is equal to or better than any piece of music and not a steamroller flowercrusher.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

xo maura ox: is this ethan? Dubplatestyle: i never thought about it, but it has to be.

The "Waterfalls" comment gave him away.

Mark, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

xo maura ox: is this ethan?
Dubplatestyle: i never thought about it, but it has to be.

The "Waterfalls" comment gave him away.


Wrong. It's Randall McMurphy.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Randall Patrick Murphy, most people called him "R.P."

Mark, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Randall Padgett McMurphy?

fritz, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I would like someone to name a piece of music criticism that is equal to or better than any piece of music.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Shit Sandwich.

Dave225, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

lester bangs on "astral weeks"
ian penman on tim buckley
last plane to jakarta on "amnesiac"

jess, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

the phrase "steamroller flowercrusher" is better than all music ever

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Thanks. The letter "s" is curvier than all the other letters.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

yves speaks the truth i'm afraid. but talking about music is even worse. why can't people keep their damned opinions to themselves? (except for you yves. and me)

gareth, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

what about "o"?

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

mark s. talking about the o destroys its spherical qualities. why oh why can't you just leave the hell alone? you are ruining the o.

gareth, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

oh mark, you so crazy.

jess, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

although, wierdly, someone was talking about the curkydegeorgo (ha self googler, google that) in the pub the other day. with a bit of a luck, that might leafblow kirkys muzak!

gareth, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Circular is not the same as curvy. s wiggles; o rolls.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I am really sorry I kept skipping over this thread.

Dan Perry, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

actually, i do wonder what ol doomie would have made of ol kirky. a marriage of authenticity made in heaven? where there were no pens and no paper, and nobody had the temerity to offer their opinion (or even worse, write it down!!!!!)

gareth, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm glad i came home becuz i found the wire with him in it: it's DEGIORGIO! KIRK DEGIORGIO. GOOGLE.

jess, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"Curvy" is an ess jayne mansfield-like in its multiple curves and possibilities, while your decaffeinated half-an-eight "oh" has but the one curve over and over like a school-marm's pursed lips spout OH NO, Children, NO.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

is home ok jess? sort of or totally not?

(ps i haf been googling for a gif of fotherington tomas but must admit defeat unless anyone knows how to disembed a pop-up)

it of course is because "o" is so curvy that it became circular (less so and it wd be a "u" or a "c" —> "s" is just two "c"s passing like ships in the night (cf song by BEBOP DELUXE which this post is bettah than...)

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

>:-o
<:-S
|:-P…

the facial dialectiXoR of curviness, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Is the second one sucking on a hookah, or siphoning gasoline?

Dare, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

A blindfolded housecat in a marathon man dentist chair, that's how you lot want your music to be. Torturers! Scientists!

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

amateur vivisectionists, curators, cryptkickers.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I would like someone to name a word of language that is equal to or better than a note of music.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"cockfarmer"

Tracer Hand, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I like the word "noctilucent." And "reliquary." And Sterling's review of Tweet is better then the music it describes. (Which is a less a diss on Tweet, more props to Sterl.)

bnw, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

How are we cryptkickers unless music can somehow die? Why are you so insecure about music? Music would not exist without language, so what's your point?

Clarke B., Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

We don't need to understand everything. Comprehension can smother and crush. Interpretation and analysis destroy the power of art. If you love music you already know this.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"comprehension can smother and crush" = "intellgience holds no charms for yves"

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Why don't you ask yourselves why this idea makes you so mad?

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

intellgience hoohoo

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

No it's more that there are things that you can't explain or comprehend no matter how intelligent you are, and pretending that you can reduces them.

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Yves have you ever heard any music?

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

perhaps it's just you that's a bit dumm?

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"why does this idea made you mad?" = yooo had BLAAD on yoor HAANDS!!

but it's not like blood of like people, it's blood of "comprehension" => which you say is a bad thing anyway (you big silly) so anyway HURRAH!!

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

yadda yadda he said cheerfully, masturbating into yves' big black hole

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

hunta-d = yves btw

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"No it's more that there are things that you can't explain or comprehend no matter how intelligent you are, and (I am a timewasting prannet, please shut me in a cupboard and jam the door closed with the aid of some kind of putty -- The Inviligator)"

The Inviligator, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Mark S is FILTHY. That is all.

Dan Perry, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Why don't you ask yourselves why this idea makes you so mad?

Asked and answered: because it's puerile, reductive, and anti-creative in the extreme: Every great artist is also of necessity a critic: art itself is criticism of that which came before it: by its very nature it is: good criticism is itself part and parcel of the art it celebrates: thing-itself people are people who just haven't read any good criticism: my God it's tedious to have to explain this to people who are probably just muckraking in the first place: go read Paul De Man's "The Resistance to Theory": be seeing you

John Darnielle, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

go read Paul De Man's "The Resistance to Theory"

blimey they don't call him MAXIMUM JOHN for nothing!!

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I AM OWL MAN

Owl Man, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

hannah's poem is so great

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Delicious spider have spotty

I forgot: this is the greatest line ever written ever, in any language ever.

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

O Mark if you truly loved that line you wouldn't say anything about it at all: see how you've already begun to analyze: what are you trying to do...kill it???

John Darnielle, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

my God it's tedious to have to explain this to people

You and only you can stop the tedium of explanation!

Yves, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I.

He did not wear his scarlet coat,
For blood and wine are red,
And blood and wine were on his hands
When they found him with the dead,
The poor dead woman whom he loved,
And murdered in her bed.

He walked amongst the Trial Men
In a suit of shabby grey;
A cricket cap was on his head,
And his step seemed light and gay;
But I never saw a man who looked
So wistfully at the day.

I never saw a man who looked
With such a wistful eye
Upon that little tent of blue
Which prisoners call the sky,
And at every drifting cloud that went
With sails of silver by.

I walked, with other souls in pain,
Within another ring,
And was wondering if the man had done
A great or little thing,
When a voice behind me whispered low,
"That fellows got to swing."

Dear Christ! the very prison walls
Suddenly seemed to reel,
And the sky above my head became
Like a casque of scorching steel;
And, though I was a soul in pain,
My pain I could not feel.

I only knew what hunted thought
Quickened his step, and why
He looked upon the garish day
With such a wistful eye;
The man had killed the thing he loved
And so he had to die.

Yet each man kills the thing he loves
By each let this be heard,
Some do it with a bitter look,
Some with a flattering word,
The coward does it with a kiss,
The brave man with a sword!

Some kill their love when they are young,
And some when they are old;
Some strangle with the hands of Lust,
Some with the hands of Gold:
The kindest use a knife, because
The dead so soon grow cold.

Some love too little, some too long,
Some sell, and others buy;
Some do the deed with many tears,
And some without a sigh:
For each man kills the thing he loves,
Yet each man does not die.

He does not die a death of shame
On a day of dark disgrace,
Nor have a noose about his neck,
Nor a cloth upon his face,
Nor drop feet foremost through the floor
Into an empty place

He does not sit with silent men
Who watch him night and day;
Who watch him when he tries to weep,
And when he tries to pray;
Who watch him lest himself should rob
The prison of its prey.

He does not wake at dawn to see
Dread figures throng his room,
The shivering Chaplain robed in white,
The Sheriff stern with gloom,
And the Governor all in shiny black,
With the yellow face of Doom.

He does not rise in piteous haste
To put on convict-clothes,
While some coarse-mouthed Doctor gloats, and notes
Each new and nerve-twitched pose,
Fingering a watch whose little ticks
Are like horrible hammer-blows.

He does not know that sickening thirst
That sands one's throat, before
The hangman with his gardener's gloves
Slips through the padded door,
And binds one with three leathern thongs,
That the throat may thirst no more.

He does not bend his head to hear
The Burial Office read,
Nor, while the terror of his soul
Tells him he is not dead,
Cross his own coffin, as he moves
Into the hideous shed.

He does not stare upon the air
Through a little roof of glass;
He does not pray with lips of clay
For his agony to pass;
Nor feel upon his shuddering cheek
The kiss of Caiaphas.

II.

Six weeks our guardsman walked the yard,
In a suit of shabby grey:
His cricket cap was on his head,
And his step seemed light and gay,
But I never saw a man who looked
So wistfully at the day.

I never saw a man who looked
With such a wistful eye
Upon that little tent of blue
Which prisoners call the sky,
And at every wandering cloud that trailed
Its raveled fleeces by.

He did not wring his hands, as do
Those witless men who dare
To try to rear the changeling Hope
In the cave of black Despair:
He only looked upon the sun,
And drank the morning air.

He did not wring his hands nor weep,
Nor did he peek or pine,
But he drank the air as though it held
Some healthful anodyne;
With open mouth he drank the sun
As though it had been wine!

And I and all the souls in pain,
Who tramped the other ring,
Forgot if we ourselves had done
A great or little thing,
And watched with gaze of dull amaze
The man who had to swing.

And strange it was to see him pass
With a step so light and gay,
And strange it was to see him look
So wistfully at the day,
And strange it was to think that he
Had such a debt to pay.

For oak and elm have pleasant leaves
That in the spring-time shoot:
But grim to see is the gallows-tree,
With its adder-bitten root,
And, green or dry, a man must die
Before it bears its fruit!

The loftiest place is that seat of grace
For which all worldlings try:
But who would stand in hempen band
Upon a scaffold high,
And through a murderer's collar take
His last look at the sky?

It is sweet to dance to violins
When Love and Life are fair:
To dance to flutes, to dance to lutes
Is delicate and rare:
But it is not sweet with nimble feet
To dance upon the air!

So with curious eyes and sick surmise
We watched him day by day,
And wondered if each one of us
Would end the self-same way,
For none can tell to what red Hell
His sightless soul may stray.

At last the dead man walked no more
Amongst the Trial Men,
And I knew that he was standing up
In the black dock's dreadful pen,
And that never would I see his face
In God's sweet world again.

Like two doomed ships that pass in storm
We had crossed each other's way:
But we made no sign, we said no word,
We had no word to say;
For we did not meet in the holy night,
But in the shameful day.

A prison wall was round us both,
Two outcast men were we:
The world had thrust us from its heart,
And God from out His care:
And the iron gin that waits for Sin
Had caught us in its snare.

III.

In Debtors' Yard the stones are hard,
And the dripping wall is high,
So it was there he took the air
Beneath the leaden sky,
And by each side a Warder walked,
For fear the man might die.

Or else he sat with those who watched
His anguish night and day;
Who watched him when he rose to weep,
And when he crouched to pray;
Who watched him lest himself should rob
Their scaffold of its prey.

The Governor was strong upon
The Regulations Act:
The Doctor said that Death was but
A scientific fact:
And twice a day the Chaplain called
And left a little tract.

And twice a day he smoked his pipe,
And drank his quart of beer:
His soul was resolute, and held
No hiding-place for fear;
He often said that he was glad
The hangman's hands were near.

But why he said so strange a thing
No Warder dared to ask:
For he to whom a watcher's doom
Is given as his task,
Must set a lock upon his lips,
And make his face a mask.

Or else he might be moved, and try
To comfort or console:
And what should Human Pity do
Pent up in Murderers' Hole?
What word of grace in such a place
Could help a brother's soul?

With slouch and swing around the ring
We trod the Fool's Parade!
We did not care: we knew we were
The Devil's Own Brigade:
And shaven head and feet of lead
Make a merry masquerade.

We tore the tarry rope to shreds
With blunt and bleeding nails;
We rubbed the doors, and scrubbed the floors,
And cleaned the shining rails:
And, rank by rank, we soaped the plank,
And clattered with the pails.

We sewed the sacks, we broke the stones,
We turned the dusty drill:
We banged the tins, and bawled the hymns,
And sweated on the mill:
But in the heart of every man
Terror was lying still.

So still it lay that every day
Crawled like a weed-clogged wave:
And we forgot the bitter lot
That waits for fool and knave,
Till once, as we tramped in from work,
We passed an open grave.

With yawning mouth the yellow hole
Gaped for a living thing;
The very mud cried out for blood
To the thirsty asphalte ring:
And we knew that ere one dawn grew fair
Some prisoner had to swing.

Right in we went, with soul intent
On Death and Dread and Doom:
The hangman, with his little bag,
Went shuffling through the gloom
And each man trembled as he crept
Into his numbered tomb.

That night the empty corridors
Were full of forms of Fear,
And up and down the iron town
Stole feet we could not hear,
And through the bars that hide the stars
White faces seemed to peer.

He lay as one who lies and dreams
In a pleasant meadow-land,
The watcher watched him as he slept,
And could not understand
How one could sleep so sweet a sleep
With a hangman close at hand?

But there is no sleep when men must weep
Who never yet have wept:
So we - the fool, the fraud, the knave -
That endless vigil kept,
And through each brain on hands of pain
Another's terror crept.

Alas! it is a fearful thing
To feel another's guilt!
For, right within, the sword of Sin
Pierced to its poisoned hilt,
And as molten lead were the tears we shed
For the blood we had not spilt.

The Warders with their shoes of felt
Crept by each padlocked door,
And peeped and saw, with eyes of awe,
Grey figures on the floor,
And wondered why men knelt to pray
Who never prayed before.

All through the night we knelt and prayed,
Mad mourners of a corpse!
The troubled plumes of midnight were
The plumes upon a hearse:
And bitter wine upon a sponge
Was the savior of Remorse.

The cock crew, the red cock crew,
But never came the day:
And crooked shape of Terror crouched,
In the corners where we lay:
And each evil sprite that walks by night
Before us seemed to play.

They glided past, they glided fast,
Like travelers through a mist:
They mocked the moon in a rigadoon
Of delicate turn and twist,
And with formal pace and loathsome grace
The phantoms kept their tryst.

With mop and mow, we saw them go,
Slim shadows hand in hand:
About, about, in ghostly rout
They trod a saraband:
And the damned grotesques made arabesques,
Like the wind upon the sand!

With the pirouettes of marionettes,
They tripped on pointed tread:
But with flutes of Fear they filled the ear,
As their grisly masque they led,
And loud they sang, and loud they sang,
For they sang to wake the dead.

"Oho!" they cried, "The world is wide,
But fettered limbs go lame!
And once, or twice, to throw the dice
Is a gentlemanly game,
But he does not win who plays with Sin
In the secret House of Shame."
No things of air these antics were
That frolicked with such glee:
To men whose lives were held in gyves,
And whose feet might not go free,
Ah! wounds of Christ! they were living things,
Most terrible to see.
Around, around, they waltzed and wound;
Some wheeled in smirking pairs:
With the mincing step of demirep
Some sidled up the stairs:
And with subtle sneer, and fawning leer,
Each helped us at our prayers.

The morning wind began to moan,
But still the night went on:
Through its giant loom the web of gloom
Crept till each thread was spun:
And, as we prayed, we grew afraid
Of the Justice of the Sun.

The moaning wind went wandering round
The weeping prison-wall:
Till like a wheel of turning-steel
We felt the minutes crawl:
O moaning wind! what had we done
To have such a seneschal?

At last I saw the shadowed bars
Like a lattice wrought in lead,
Move right across the whitewashed wall
That faced my three-plank bed,
And I knew that somewhere in the world
God's dreadful dawn was red.

At six o'clock we cleaned our cells,
At seven all was still,
But the sough and swing of a mighty wing
The prison seemed to fill,
For the Lord of Death with icy breath
Had entered in to kill.

He did not pass in purple pomp,
Nor ride a moon-white steed.
Three yards of cord and a sliding board
Are all the gallows' need:
So with rope of shame the Herald came
To do the secret deed.

We were as men who through a fen
Of filthy darkness grope:
We did not dare to breathe a prayer,
Or give our anguish scope:
Something was dead in each of us,
And what was dead was Hope.

For Man's grim Justice goes its way,
And will not swerve aside:
It slays the weak, it slays the strong,
It has a deadly stride:
With iron heel it slays the strong,
The monstrous parricide!

We waited for the stroke of eight:
Each tongue was thick with thirst:
For the stroke of eight is the stroke of Fate
That makes a man accursed,
And Fate will use a running noose
For the best man and the worst.

We had no other thing to do,
Save to wait for the sign to come:
So, like things of stone in a valley lone,
Quiet we sat and dumb:
But each man's heart beat thick and quick
Like a madman on a drum!

With sudden shock the prison-clock
Smote on the shivering air,
And from all the gaol rose up a wail
Of impotent despair,
Like the sound that frightened marshes hear
From a leper in his lair.

And as one sees most fearful things
In the crystal of a dream,
We saw the greasy hempen rope
Hooked to the blackened beam,
And heard the prayer the hangman's snare
Strangled into a scream.

And all the woe that moved him so
That he gave that bitter cry,
And the wild regrets, and the bloody sweats,
None knew so well as I:
For he who live more lives than one
More deaths than one must die.

IV.

There is no chapel on the day
On which they hang a man:
The Chaplain's heart is far too sick,
Or his face is far to wan,
Or there is that written in his eyes
Which none should look upon.

So they kept us close till nigh on noon,
And then they rang the bell,
And the Warders with their jingling keys
Opened each listening cell,
And down the iron stair we tramped,
Each from his separate Hell.

Out into God's sweet air we went,
But not in wonted way,
For this man's face was white with fear,
And that man's face was grey,
And I never saw sad men who looked
So wistfully at the day.

I never saw sad men who looked
With such a wistful eye
Upon that little tent of blue
We prisoners called the sky,
And at every careless cloud that passed
In happy freedom by.

But their were those amongst us all
Who walked with downcast head,
And knew that, had each go his due,
They should have died instead:
He had but killed a thing that lived
Whilst they had killed the dead.

For he who sins a second time
Wakes a dead soul to pain,
And draws it from its spotted shroud,
And makes it bleed again,
And makes it bleed great gouts of blood
And makes it bleed in vain!

Like ape or clown, in monstrous garb
With crooked arrows starred,
Silently we went round and round
The slippery asphalte yard;
Silently we went round and round,
And no man spoke a word.

Silently we went round and round,
And through each hollow mind
The memory of dreadful things
Rushed like a dreadful wind,
An Horror stalked before each man,
And terror crept behind.

The Warders strutted up and down,
And kept their herd of brutes,
Their uniforms were spick and span,
And they wore their Sunday suits,
But we knew the work they had been at
By the quicklime on their boots.

For where a grave had opened wide,
There was no grave at all:
Only a stretch of mud and sand
By the hideous prison-wall,
And a little heap of burning lime,
That the man should have his pall.

For he has a pall, this wretched man,
Such as few men can claim:
Deep down below a prison-yard,
Naked for greater shame,
He lies, with fetters on each foot,
Wrapt in a sheet of flame!

And all the while the burning lime
Eats flesh and bone away,
It eats the brittle bone by night,
And the soft flesh by the day,
It eats the flesh and bones by turns,
But it eats the heart alway.

For three long years they will not sow
Or root or seedling there:
For three long years the unblessed spot
Will sterile be and bare,
And look upon the wondering sky
With unreproachful stare.

They think a murderer's heart would taint
Each simple seed they sow.
It is not true! God's kindly earth
Is kindlier than men know,
And the red rose would but blow more red,
The white rose whiter blow.

Out of his mouth a red, red rose!
Out of his heart a white!
For who can say by what strange way,
Christ brings his will to light,
Since the barren staff the pilgrim bore
Bloomed in the great Pope's sight?

But neither milk-white rose nor red
May bloom in prison air;
The shard, the pebble, and the flint,
Are what they give us there:
For flowers have been known to heal
A common man's despair.

So never will wine-red rose or white,
Petal by petal, fall
On that stretch of mud and sand that lies
By the hideous prison-wall,
To tell the men who tramp the yard
That God's Son died for all.

Yet though the hideous prison-wall
Still hems him round and round,
And a spirit man not walk by night
That is with fetters bound,
And a spirit may not weep that lies
In such unholy ground,

He is at peace - this wretched man -
At peace, or will be soon:
There is no thing to make him mad,
Nor does Terror walk at noon,
For the lampless Earth in which he lies
Has neither Sun nor Moon.

They hanged him as a beast is hanged:
They did not even toll
A reguiem that might have brought
Rest to his startled soul,
But hurriedly they took him out,
And hid him in a hole.

They stripped him of his canvas clothes,
And gave him to the flies;
They mocked the swollen purple throat
And the stark and staring eyes:
And with laughter loud they heaped the shroud
In which their convict lies.

The Chaplain would not kneel to pray
By his dishonored grave:
Nor mark it with that blessed Cross
That Christ for sinners gave,
Because the man was one of those
Whom Christ came down to save.

Yet all is well; he has but passed
To Life's appointed bourne:
And alien tears will fill for him
Pity's long-broken urn,
For his mourner will be outcast men,
And outcasts always mourn.

V.

I know not whether Laws be right,
Or whether Laws be wrong;
All that we know who lie in goal
Is that the wall is strong;
And that each day is like a year,
A year whose days are long.

But this I know, that every Law
That men have made for Man,
Since first Man took his brother's life,
And the sad world began,
But straws the wheat and saves the chaff
With a most evil fan.

This too I know - and wise it were
If each could know the same -
That every prison that men build
Is built with bricks of shame,
And bound with bars lest Christ should see
How men their brothers maim.

With bars they blur the gracious moon,
And blind the goodly sun:
And they do well to hide their Hell,
For in it things are done
That Son of God nor son of Man
Ever should look upon!

The vilest deeds like poison weeds
Bloom well in prison-air:
It is only what is good in Man
That wastes and withers there:
Pale Anguish keeps the heavy gate,
And the Warder is Despair

For they starve the little frightened child
Till it weeps both night and day:
And they scourge the weak, and flog the fool,
And gibe the old and grey,
And some grow mad, and all grow bad,
And none a word may say.

Each narrow cell in which we dwell
Is foul and dark latrine,
And the fetid breath of living Death
Chokes up each grated screen,
And all, but Lust, is turned to dust
In Humanity's machine.

The brackish water that we drink
Creeps with a loathsome slime,
And the bitter bread they weigh in scales
Is full of chalk and lime,
And Sleep will not lie down, but walks
Wild-eyed and cries to Time.

But though lean Hunger and green Thirst
Like asp with adder fight,
We have little care of prison fare,
For what chills and kills outright
Is that every stone one lifts by day
Becomes one's heart by night.

With midnight always in one's heart,
And twilight in one's cell,
We turn the crank, or tear the rope,
Each in his separate Hell,
And the silence is more awful far
Than the sound of a brazen bell.

And never a human voice comes near
To speak a gentle word:
And the eye that watches through the door
Is pitiless and hard:
And by all forgot, we rot and rot,
With soul and body marred.

And thus we rust Life's iron chain
Degraded and alone:
And some men curse, and some men weep,
And some men make no moan:
But God's eternal Laws are kind
And break the heart of stone.

And every human heart that breaks,
In prison-cell or yard,
Is as that broken box that gave
Its treasure to the Lord,
And filled the unclean leper's house
With the scent of costliest nard.

Ah! happy day they whose hearts can break
And peace of pardon win!
How else may man make straight his plan
And cleanse his soul from Sin?
How else but through a broken heart
May Lord Christ enter in?

And he of the swollen purple throat.
And the stark and staring eyes,
Waits for the holy hands that took
The Thief to Paradise;
And a broken and a contrite heart
The Lord will not despise.

The man in red who reads the Law
Gave him three weeks of life,
Three little weeks in which to heal
His soul of his soul's strife,
And cleanse from every blot of blood
The hand that held the knife.

And with tears of blood he cleansed the hand,
The hand that held the steel:
For only blood can wipe out blood,
And only tears can heal:
And the crimson stain that was of Cain
Became Christ's snow-white seal.

VI.

In Reading gaol by Reading town
There is a pit of shame,
And in it lies a wretched man
Eaten by teeth of flame,
In burning winding-sheet he lies,
And his grave has got no name.

And there, till Christ call forth the dead,
In silence let him lie:
No need to waste the foolish tear,
Or heave the windy sigh:
The man had killed the thing he loved,
And so he had to die.

And all men kill the thing they love,
By all let this be heard,
Some do it with a bitter look,
Some with a flattering word,
The coward does it with a kiss,
The brave man with a sword!

The End

do you see? DO YOU SEE?, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

yes yes but DELICIOUS SPIDER HAVE SPOTTY!!!!!

mark s, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Interpretation destroys the power of art? Studying something like, say, Dante's Divide Comedy or Milton's Paradise Lost has brought me to a far more receptive state in relation to that power than I ever would have known by simply enjoying the language of the translation alone. The 'power' experienced by the learned might be different than that of the innocent aesthete, but it's power nonetheless.

Dare, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

http://www.rinkworks.com/dialect/dialectp.cgi?dialect=piglatin&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.greenspun.com%2Fbboard%2Fq-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl%3Fmsg_id%3D009006
U will haf to cut & paste in sections perhaps

Norman Phay, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Music, when completely removed from the social sphere, from language, from 'critique' at the most basic level, is beyond meaningless -- it ceases to be music. Most music-makers throughout the millenia have understood music as a social activity, not some cutesily Romantic ineffable private one. The substance of music arises from dancing to it, creating with it, talking about it, and even when we have a "private" musical experience, we utilize what we've learned from these social situations.

I've got to read some fucking Christopher Small before I die.

Yves Klein, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Man if nobody else is gonna honor Owl Man's fire I'm happy to do it: Owl Man, your post rocked my cold, heartless, critique-riddled world

John Darnielle, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Thank you.

Owl Man, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Man, I was at work all day and missed this craziness. I should quit my job.

adam, Monday, 6 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

darnelle: i usta think art was criticism, but now I don't think so. I think it INCORPORATES criticism but exists on a seperate sphere. It unleashes what criticism can only direct. This is a funny def. as some criticism works fine w/o the art in question and some art only acts as criticism (in my definition) by piggybacking off other stuff, but I think the two function are seperate sometimes at least. Art is what you grapple to understand, criticism is the act of making understood.

Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Godard disagrees

J Blount, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Fuck Goddard, I disagree. I love how it's completely implied that everyone knows what art and criticism even ARE (as though people don't debate these questions ALL THE TIME) and yet these words are just thrown around as though everyone MUST know what Sterling means.

Alex in SF, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I'll tell you what is a lot worse that writing about music:

Writing about writing about music.

Shut the fuck up!

Andrew, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

so, let me get this straight, oscar wilde is better than the bellrays? yeah, oh, i think i can agree with that

i still think yves is right though. words do kill music (i read the sound offs on the poptones page, man do they kill the magic!!!! - c'mon doomie, it is you isn't it?? i think you are fucking brilliant man!)

gareth, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Criticism isn't necessarily the art of making understood, though, sometimes it's art on its own terms. Derrida was more about opening up referential networks within texts in general, and he went about it really playfully. Derrida's fly, yo.

Dare, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

oscar totally owns and rules this thread (w.hannah obv)

mark s, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Oscar Wilde is the FIRST ROCK CRITIC (I said this somewhere else I think).

Alex in SF, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

you did!! But I say: JOHN RUSKIN! (cuz he actually wrote about ROCKS) (well ok, mountains) (he is made an honorary member of the alpine but denounces whymper for actually climbing in the alps eg spoiling the matterhorn by standing on its peak = HE IS PUNK ROCK!!)

mark s, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

My new theory (made possible by recent exposure to these psychos) is that mountain climbers (in the US anyway) are ALL complete fucking FREAKS!!!

Alex in SF, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"first of all who's your A&R/a mountain climber who plays electric guitar?"

fritz, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

A. Crowley was a mountain climber, a bisexual heroin addict, and a big influence on J. Page, R. Stones and every other 'satanic' half- wit = more influential (because he cld CONTROL ppl w/ his mad magickal skillz) than Wilde or Ruskin!

Andrew L, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

also in my spring clean i found a v. old copy of sounds (xmas 1977) which has in it a pic of the sleeve of EDDIE AND THE HOT RODS "Do Anything You Wanna Do", and this has Crowley on it, in mickeymouse ears! i recall the pic of course but i did not then know it was crowley!! (in an early long version of CONCRETE SO AS TO SELF-DESTRUCT i cut straight from the hot rods to arthur machen commenting on how obsessively rule-bound the crowley mob were! so yay me!! and yay the rods after all!! but i still hate em!!)

mark s, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

hullo clouds hullo sky i arive belatedly to offer this:
http://www.simonbarne.com/oddsandends/assets/fotheringtonthomas.gif

I similarly belatedly note that the word "caliginous" is better than the nasty midi cymbal sound on the otherwise gorgeous The Light 3000. Oh, you know I'm right, no matter how meaningless the assertion may seem...

R, picking at long-dried red fingerprints on someone else's furniture, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Hahaha. Mark S cannot AVOID Crowley's INFLUENCE!!! Influence will haunt you all yr days Mark (like Hunta-D haunts Jess and appreciation and progress haunt my SOUL!)

Alex in SF, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Alex, you jerk. I wanted to start a discussion on what they mean and instead you accuse me of getting all diadactic.

Was "Weekend" criticism? Of what?

What about "Two or three things..."? Was it about film as a medium? Nomoreso than Brecht was about theatre as a medium. Did that make him a critic? Do you come away from "Peirot la fou" understanding more or simply feeling more?

Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

epic throwdown: aleister crowley vs fotherington tomas!!

thank you ms spacecadet, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Well I didn't realize that is what you were trying to do Sterling (I just thought you were being DIDACTIC). Anyway, all art is criticism and all criticism is art. I just re-started yr argument to compensate for my insensitivity.

Jerk in SF, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I am going to write an experimental horse song about the curvature of the spindly "s" just so that I can hoist it aloft as superior to the collective musings of the bloodied ILM contingent.

Then Yves and I are going to retire quietly to the living room where we will listen to my song on our headphones and exchange knowing glances BUT CERTAINLY NEVER WORDS about my 808-aided paean to the curviest character.

Mark, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

" writing about music is like masturbating into a black hole "

can i use this as the title for a blog? :P

naz, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

b-but looks can kill too!!

mark s, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Alex: that's the fucking opposite of my argument, f'cryin'outloud.

Again: art makes people bothered, and criticism makes people act, and sometimes somethings do both, but rilly they can only do one or the other well. Thus "Two Or Three Things" is good art from Godard and "Lear" is half-assed criticism.

Brecht was never a good critic, though he was a good theoretician of art.

Benjamin was nothing but a critic and couldn't inspire an original emotion for the life of him but could translate the affect of others work into new social meaning (cf. his citation of Klee in "Theses on History").

Clear, or do I have to fly over and kick your ass?

Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

(sterling, alex said "restarted" not "restated" = he gently lobs the ball to you by presenting you with NOT what you meant, so you can smash it back in satisfying fashion = you win the point but he wins the hearts of the crowd)

mark s, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

How weak would music have to be to be damaged by us talking about it? For me, I've very rarely found any piece diminished by anything said, but I've found plenty of things to be enriched by external words.

Martin Skidmore, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Music journalism isn't a bad thing in itself, but a decent music journalist is a rare find. I like reading vivid, emotional accounts of a piece of music ... however, the general standard these days seems to be for vast tracts of academic wank on the postmodernity of the Britney or some such.

naz, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Shortly here the original poser/poseur of the question is going to flit back in and claim that no matter what anybody's said we have somehow proven his point. His doing so will not only bore me, but will bore the very pavement, the mute stones to either side of it, and the hills off in the distance. It will bore the dead in their graves. Just you watch.

John Darnielle, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ah, my apologies Alex. What a difference one "r" makes, eh?

I feel sorta like groucho in duck soup now.

Sterling Clover, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

O O O my pain is everywhere O O O

Owl Man, Tuesday, 7 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"art makes people bothered, and criticism makes people act"

Bothered to do what? Act in what way? What are you on about? This is one of those arguments where definitions mean everything and your definitions are just impossibly vague. Why is the first Goddard movie good art and why is the second not art at all, but just bad criticism? What the hell is a theoretician of art? I am so impossibly lost.

I accept your apology though.

Alex in SF, Wednesday, 8 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

bothered to do nothing, just bothered. like it haunts you and shit.

Sterling Clover, Wednesday, 8 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The light growes dimmer. I have askt Mother to move the lapptop to the kountermain of my syckbed so that I might sing in harmony with you all once more before I say my final adieu adieu ADIEU! to this redhott and glouriouse world.

Yves, Wednesday, 8 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Most unexpecktedly I was Poppt in the head with a Kroquet Mallett last night. The intsrument was weilted by my young sister but please bear her no ill will, she was most unaware that I was kroucht in the nether bush transcribing the sparrow's song to sheet musick. I might have been able to move more quickly to avoid the wooden hammer toward my tender noggin through the underbrush But I had tiredt myself out reading Kruel Wyrds of the Musick-Vivisectionistes and my Quick- jumping and leaping abilitys were so greatly reduced as to be pracktikally of little use.

Yves, Wednesday, 8 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I forgive you every one. Do not weep, deerhearts, for now is a tyme to celebrate and sing. Don't cry for me, Ike an Tina.

hullo clowdes, Wednesday, 8 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Heh heh, heh... You said "nether bush." Heh heh, heh, heh heh...

Prude, Wednesday, 8 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Nevermind music criticism, surely music theory is a much greater threat to those pristine and delicate spiderwebs Yves mentions.

I'd also recommend that Yves stay well clear of any working musicians or placing where they ply their craft (e.g., rehearsal spaces or recording studios), for they are apt to engage in verbalization about what they're doing with alarming frequency.

o. nate, Wednesday, 8 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i saw pink on tv last night explaining why britney was crap: as she spoke a million tiny kittens, trapped in microwaves all over this dark half of the world, blintzed sharply into shreds off flesh across the wipeable walls...

mark s, Wednesday, 8 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

off = of, sod it

mark s, Wednesday, 8 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

nazty naz--yea, verily you may use the 'writing about...black hole' quote for a blog (if you tweren't joking). criticism doesn't change the music, it changes us. a song is a mountain. the music is alive and yves is dead. farewell sweet sparrow of the nether bushes.

gilgamesh, Thursday, 9 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...
Gene Simmons: If you think about it, critics are an unnecessary life-form on the planet Earth, and here's why: because it's a job without credentials. You don't have to go to school. To be a journalist, of course, you need to get a journalism degree, and there's such a thing as journalistic ethics. You know, if you print news, your opinion is not important. A critic has no credibility whatsoever. He doesn't even need a license to be a critic. He just sort of says, "I'm a critic." And then you are.

The Onion: Couldn't the same be said of rock stars?

GS: That's right. Except we're more famous and everybody likes us.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 29 August 2003 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Strange use of the royal 'we' there.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 29 August 2003 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

"I kill everything I fuck" - GG Allin

dave q, Friday, 29 August 2003 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

nothing is important except the relationship between the song and the listener

nothing is important except the relationship between the lie and its believer

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 29 August 2003 19:38 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...
You know, by Gene's view of things, being a mother is often (usually?) a job without credentials, too.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 24 April 2005 10:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah and everyone loves them too

A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 24 April 2005 12:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Messageboard l'esprit d'escalier?

MV, Sunday, 24 April 2005 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

It would be if I saw Tracer's post when it was first birthed into this world, naked and squirming.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 24 April 2005 13:13 (twenty-one years ago)

MV, Sunday, 24 April 2005 21:38 (twenty-one years ago)

That's right. Except we're more famous and everybody likes us.

Ok can I just say that Gene's comments are totally fucking awesome?

miccio (miccio), Sunday, 24 April 2005 21:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean this blows "dancing about architecture" right out of the water.

miccio (miccio), Sunday, 24 April 2005 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

and Michael, you can't just say "I'm a mother."

miccio (miccio), Sunday, 24 April 2005 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

though it could be argued that, like mothers, you're not a professional critic until you've been fucked and given a payload.

(wah wah)

miccio (miccio), Sunday, 24 April 2005 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I was listening to some music, and grooving, really into it, and then suddenly nothing......
Then I realized. Some bastard somewhere must have started analyzing it and just killed it dead.
But..... this doesn't really happen. If I'm digging some music that's been heavily critiqued, but I'm unaware of all the critique is that music simultaneously alive and dead???
IS MUSIC SOME SORT OF ZOMBIE? No, this theory is flawed.

rage against the leafblower (m0stly clean), Monday, 25 April 2005 03:45 (twenty-one years ago)

but i threw away the knife.

cryptic child, Monday, 25 April 2005 11:28 (twenty-one years ago)


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