POLL: Best Shoegaze Band

;_;

NO APPLESEED CAST?!!!?!?!?!??

from this list:

1. My Bloody Valentine
2. Loop
3. Pale Saints
4. Lush

I like a number of the other bands but these are the only ones I really still think about. I was totally blasting Loop on my drive to Coachella - still addicted to that standing-next-to-a-jet-engine sound.

Who considers Loop, The Lilys and The Telescopes to be shoegaze? You might as well include The Chameleons, Sun Dial and Spacemen 3 at this point. And if you're going to include obscurities like Springhouse then you need to include Blind Mr. Jones, Bark Psychosis, Silvania, Sianspheric, Alison's Halo, hell even the Cranes.

Shit poll choices #74481 in a series.

If I just have to pick bands from this list then I'd pick (in alphabetical order)
Bailter Space
Curve
Loop
The Telescopes
The Verve

that was a great rant, until you picked curve.

who the fuck are springhouse?

all of the above bands had their ups and downs. i've probably listened to lilys the most of all of them over the years tbh

recently re-listened to the 'sarah sitting' 45 by the swirlies. goddamn they were great on that record (and the pop narc 7"). never quite so again.

nu-shoegaze omission: GUITAR

that was a great rant, until you picked curve.

Bah! I'll defend Curve all the way up to (and including) the "Perish" single

on that list, the only bands i have liked/loved and listened to a lot are catherine wheel (and mostly just chrome which is definitely one of my fave albums of the 90's), faith healers (i love everything they did), kitchens of distinction (they lost me later on, but love is hell is one of my fave things ever), MBV, and slowdive (love them but never heard the album after souvlaki sad to say).

i should listen to more of those bands. i like loop a lot, but i don't own any loop. i've never heard moose. i have the first ride album (i think) and it's okay, but it never knocked me out. i liked bailter space, but haven't heard them in years. i just sold my shot forth self living vinyl on ebay for good money. um, the rest i can probably live without. i don't wanna listen to lush in 2008. though i did like those first EPs.

oh and i still need to hear pale saints! i only heard their latter-day sucky incarnation when they sucked.

springhouse! i heart jack rabid.

did you know lots of metal bands have been namedropping swervedriver in the last couple of years?

the lilys always made me snooze a bit. swirlies used to swirl live. but kind of forgettably. i would cross their name out and put in a vote for my fave all natural lemon and lime flavors.

anyway, one more vote for My Bloody Valentine!

who the fuck are springhouse?

Mostly notable as Jack Rabid's (The Big Takeover's main guy) band from 1988 - 1993 or so.

never ever heard the name before. will seek out.

i don't wanna listen to lush in 2008

early lush sounds better than ever in 2008! but then i hadn't listened to any since the 90s

springhouse video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anClMq_pYv4

they were okay...

lowdive (love them but never heard the album after souvlaki sad to say).

Godamn man, track down a copy of it pronto. It's the only album of theirs I listen to now and one of the few that manages to interestingly link up post-shoegazer with what the Too Pure crowd was doing.

imo all the pale saints you need are the debut and the mrs dolphin comp. in ribbons is kind of a bore.

did you know lots of metal bands have been namedropping swervedriver in the last couple of years?

i believe this. also cregg from the vines used to talk them up a lot too

I have nothing to say about this poll, except to suggest cutting Stephen some slack; if I were his age looking back on Ye Olden Times of Gaze, I'd probably come up with an equally idiosyncratic list, which I think is a good thing that reflects personal taste, knowledge and perception rather than something set in stone. None of these groups formed with the idea 'oh hai we r shoegaze,' they were just lumped into something at the time and then set in amber for the following years.

The very fluidity of what constitutes shoegaze, as Chris indicates, is also one of its strengths. Hell, you could call the No Age album that just came out shoegaze, in fact I'm going to partially argue that in my OC Weekly review, from the point of view of it being often quite disorienting as opposed to 'just' being sculpted blissout.

Glaring omission #4080: Secret Shine

Barring MBV's unfair advantage, I'm going with The Pale Saints.

Ride is the ONLY CORRECT ANSWER HERE. Pale Saints a close second.

What?? Loop are in here? BAHAHAAHA who the hell said they were shoegazing? LOL

*Pauses to actually read the entire thread before posting*

Telecom OTM re:Loop etc.

ESOJ disses In Ribbons! Oh the horror. It's the THIRD album that was the bore, mate. :)

Still at the end of the day, Ned OTM for defending Stephen.

the third album is even more of a bore

Pale Saints = all about the EPs. Come to think of it, the same can be said for a lot of these bands.

"Who considers Loop, The Lilys and The Telescopes to be shoegaze?"

AMG for one:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:2680~T1

probably lots of people.

The first Lilys LP is the most direct rip of MBV's sound in existence (which is fine by me). It doesn't get much more 'gaze than that.

these are the lists i love:

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/albatross38/new_shoegaze_music

never heard of ANY of these bands.

top 50 old school:

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/TheScientist/top_50_shoegaze_albums__atease_version_

would i like M83?

They're all right but overrated. Will depend on your tolerance for the Mogwai/Godspeed style.

there's some totally wonderful obscure stuff in that albatross38 list. although i think the fleeting joys album is really overrated - sounds beautiful but the songs themselves aren't terribly substantial

My favorite neo-shoegaze band remain A Sunny Day In Glasgow - except they're more like tweegaze, or music made by ghosts in an attic.

their vocals trouble me

the JPS Experience's Bleeding Star (or, ha, the more recent Shocking Pinks stuff, esp. live) are better Flying Nun shoegaze picks than Bailter Space.

Out of all the bands on this list, the only thing I've really listened to in the past few years'd be Lush's cover of "Demystification". Wouldn't mind digging out Chapterhouse's "Pearl" & seeing how it holds up, though.

my favourite NZ 'shoegaze' stuff is the first loves ugly children EP on FN. dreamy.

altho the JPSE do that sound very nicely

"Will depend on your tolerance for the Mogwai/Godspeed style."

thanks, i'll pass!

Hahaha, I knew that would be your reaction.

the third album is even more of a bore

Electricsound once again confirms he is a sane man! Cheers.

But seriously folks, Loop shoegaze? That fucking pushes my buttons. If you call Loop shoegaze in a bar with me you better be prepared to step outside, mate. That gets to me almost as much as calling Killing Joke goth does to Alex in NYC I'm serious.

When Loop fucking started there was NO FUCKING SHOEGAZE OKAY? THEY WERE FUCKING PSYCHEDELIC STONER ROCK LIKE SPACEMEN 3 ONLY HARDER EDGED AND THEY HAD 60's LOOKING ALBUM COVERS MADE FOR PEOPLE WHO DID ACID AND THIS WAS BEFORE ANYONE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD HAD CALLED ANY TYPE OF MUSIC ANYWHERE "SHOEGAZE" OKAY????

They opened for fucking Nirvana okay?? Do you think any shoegaze band ever opened for Nirvana???

Okay I'm calm now. Incase anyone was wondering.

springhouse has a new album, but i don't know if they have put it out yet. they played in brooklyn a couple of months ago.

All Natural Lemon & Lime Flavors/Ifwhen are better than all of these bands save for MBV. And MBV probably should've been taken out to give, I don't know, Ride a better chance.

Bimble, a band can have a generic status conferred upon them in retrospect just like La Dolce Vita was really about the late 1960s counterculture before it even existed.

i think that Ecstasy of St. Theresa album on the 2nd AMG list is pretty awesome. would like LP copy pls.
did people consider Flying Saucer Attack to be shoegaze?

Said EOST album is very awesome.

FSA -- they were definitely lumped in tangentially at least at the start. Dave Pearce was none too fond of the 'new MBV' tags that he got, though -- he felt he was coming from a much different direction (and he was). Still for a while there the putative Bristol scene that he and a variety of other folks (3EF, Movietone, Light, Amp -- nearly all of which were interrelated) were supposed to stand for definitely was seen as post-gaze fallout.

they tended to fall more into the spacerock side of things with the artists they were associated with, but the sounds are pretty gazey

xpost

ah yes! the first loves ugly children ep is fantastic, the 7 inch too, but then they went pretty crap pretty quickly.
bleeding star is alright but it's a bit of a snooze in spots. the second stereo bus record is pretty shoegazey but not so great, at least not as nice as the home recorded debut.
moose were rotten shoegazers, much better as a country band.
slowdive is best though.

Chapterhouse isn't best band on the list, but I thought that they should get at least one vote if only because "Breather" is one of my favourite songs ever. It's better than "Pearl" for which they're usually remembered.

These in about this order:
Pale Saints (for The Comforts of Madness)
Ride
Lush
Slowdive

I can’t bring myself to vote for MVB as part of a shoegaze poll.

My Vloody Balentine. (Some DJ somewhere is going to use that as a name.)

Ride is the ONLY CORRECT ANSWER HERE.

I recall listening to a Mark Gardener solo show several years ago where he introduced "Leave Them All Behind" with "who wants to hear some shoegazing?"

As far as I know, this is the only time I've heard anyone from this era take on the shoegazing moniker even if it was probably in jest.

Anyway, the one band that really should be on this list that isn't is A R Kane. 69 is the album that kicked most of this off...

Thanks Ned! A sleepy dyslexic DJ, maybe.

Heh - one shoegaze poll, fifty posts complaining the chosen bands aren't obscure enough.

My favourite shoegazing story: circa 1992, Curve are in Melody Maker, orgasmic over the new Aphex Twin remix of their track 'Free Fall'. "It's amazing. He's taken a short vocal sample - we don't know where he got it from - and then built a totally new track around it." Two weeks later, Melody Maker features another interview with a giggling Aphex Twin, where he reveals that instead of slaving over remixes, he just offloads his old junk onto crappy guitar bands, in exchange for thousands of pounds of their money.

1)Ride (from the Ride EP up to Leave Them All Behind)
2)MBV (from You Made Me Realise to Loveless)
3)Boo Radleys (most of it)
4)Telescopes (just for that untitled second album)
5)Pale Saints (mainly for the Comforts of Madness and the early EPs)
6)Slowdive (great early EPs, bit patchy afterwards)
7)Lush (nothing that's consistently great, but some high points on various records)

Some good stuff by Th' Faith Healers, Chapterhouse and Catherine Wheel as well.

Swervedriver were not a fucking shoey band - they owed more to Husker Du a the Stooges and Dino Jr- for fucks sake. Surely?

Not sure about Boo Radleys either or MOOse (when they got good)

Out of the above there is the obvious Vloody Balentine (like it - a lot!)

Others that impress from this list
Lilys (Ecsame...or something)love the one with overlit canyon on it)
Swirlies ( have two of theirs - one is so much better than other)
Drop Nineteens (just for Winona)

ok

Pale Saints are the most appropriate. They were the shoegazing shit.Loved that first album.

Isn't it agreed that My Bloody Valentine and Slowdive are the central benchmark of Shoegaze? For the pretty variant, maybe there's Lush, and more recently Pia Fraus. For Rock, there's Catherine Wheel. For Indie/Avant, there's Swirlies, and more recently, All Natural Lemon and Lime Flavors.
I keep hearing about newer bands that are supposed to be the second coming of M.B.V. and it usually turns out to be some gawdawfully braying, pseudo-transcendental rubbish, I don't know what to call it. It just shows that you've gotta have songs, as well as a sound.

Rumskib are the best shoegaze band from the 20th century. I like their album so much. I heart it.

I guess I meant 21st century. Let's just say last year.

I've gone for the Boo Radleys by default.

Bah! I'll defend Curve all the way up to (and including) the "Perish" single

"Perish" is arguably their best single.

They're all right but overrated. Will depend on your tolerance for the Mogwai/Godspeed style.

I fail to see any similarity at all between M83 and Mogwai/Godspeed. Maybe if one's only exposure to M83 was "Run Into Flowers".

Th' Faith Healers were better than all but a couple of bands on this list. "Spin 1/2" is the peak of slack stoner shoegaze (take that to mean whatever you want it to mean) for me. Ten minutes of it = far too short.

Stop a minute!

Stop

Stop

Stop

Stop

Stop.

The Verve are/were Shoegaze?

Does anyone know when those Loop remasters are coming out?

For the record, most shoegazing stuff has dated REALLY Badly. Lush and Moose for example, sound particularly dreadful. Pale Saints just very boring, 'Sight of You' excepted.

I'm going for Lush. I only own Spooky, but that's a hell of a record.

B'Wana I would say it's really MBV and Ride as far peak-era gaze. Slowdive come out of the Cocteaus too much (who are as mentioned from the outset the prototypical band for all of this), I have always considered them 50/50 gaze and goth.

you could probably make a case for ultra vivid scene being on this list. Bimble's right about loop, they were a ferocious psych rock band, th faith healers were pretty great but again a whole different, later, more interesting scene, much more laika and stereolab. having the valentines on this list is a bit like having a the beatles in a merseybeat poll.

Off topic, but I've been tracking down a lot of e.p.s, b-sides etc from this blog:

http://shoegazeralive.blogspot.com/

I'd pick Slowdive as No. 1, early Ride 2nd.

Ride ftw.

Where are Sugar Plant?

Also, don't Spz fit in here somewhere? Sorta?

ps. this is like most of my favourite music ever.

My pick for missing band would be Smashing Orange who were of the time and had a couple of pretty good singles that fit the shoegaze bill.

My pick is split between Ride and Boo Radleys, but the problem is that I like them best after they went pop. (This also true for Lilys and the also-missing-from-the-list Nightblooms).

OTM re: Smashing Orange

There's a reasonable Smashing Orange compilation out that pulls together the early singles, 1991 by name. Website is offering it for $5!

Yesh, having MBV on the list is like blaming Hendrix for metal, or Joy Division for goth.

both of those make perfect sense though! if a little late in the day.

oh i see.

The Verve are/were Shoegaze? - a bit of a stretch perhaps, but there was definietly some overlap between their earliest records and the 'gaze aesthetic - mostly having to do with guitar sounds as "sonic cathedrals" and such. "All in the Mind" and "She's a Superstar" are probably the best examples of this.

They're all right but overrated. Will depend on your tolerance for the Mogwai/Godspeed style.

-----

I fail to see any similarity at all between M83 and Mogwai/Godspeed. Maybe if one's only exposure to M83 was "Run Into Flowers".

OTM on the first part *but* I fail to see any similarity between "Run Into Flowers" and Mogwai/Godspeed (I *wish* Mogwai/Godspeed sounded like that!).

I wish Godspeed had more than one trick, period.

they ain't the best band listed here, but I still voted for the Crush...big up ya chest, Michael Segal!

Neptune Records all up in this MF!

Play It Again!

YES YES YES

sigh...I miss those guys...virtually every CD I own by the bands listed above came from Play It Again...

but we digress...

I have nothing to say about this poll, except to suggest cutting Stephen some slack; if I were his age looking back on Ye Olden Times of Gaze, I'd probably come up with an equally idiosyncratic list, which I think is a good thing that reflects personal taste, knowledge and perception rather than something set in stone.

Like I said, I determined the list solely from the Allmusic and Wikipedia entries on shoegaze. There's a few on this list I haven't heard yet (Drop Nineteens, Lilys, Majesty Crush) or even heard of (Springhouse) but I wanted to go by the Allmusic suggestions for the most part. The '80s acts I mentioned in the original post are more so influences than shoegazers; same goes for Chameleons and Spacemen 3 as Elvis mentioned; Bark Psychosis are usually mentioned as post-rockers more so than shoegazers. Cranes I could see being included, but since they weren't on Allmusic or Wikipedia I didn't include them. So it goes.

Which is to say, this poll would actually be quite different if it reflected personal knowledge and taste.

What?? Loop are in here? BAHAHAAHA who the hell said they were shoegazing? LOL

I agree it's a borderline choice, but Allmusic says so. Read the original post, why don't you?

"Will depend on your tolerance for the Mogwai/Godspeed style."

thanks, i'll pass!

Scott, didn't you write a Village Voice article in 2001 or so about how much you liked a Godspeed album?

Digression perpetuated: Henry, a fair share of my thick shoegaze/space-rock/drone/etc. collection comes from PIA as well. I grew up in Jackson and used to go to shows (usually at St. Andrew's) in Detroit all the time when I was in high school. The ritual always included a pre-show shopping excursion to PIA. One of my friends is/was a Spacemen 3 completist has probably put Michael's children through college at this point with the seemingly hundreds of expensive vinyls he bought at PIA. To this day, I've never seen a better selection of "that kind" of music anywhere, but I've never been to Amoeba so..

Anyway, the one band that really should be on this list that isn't is A R Kane. 69 is the album that kicked most of this off...

Had I made the poll based on personal taste, I would have definitely included A R Kane, and considered voting for them as well. The first two albums, 69 and i, are just astounding.

I think it's a pretty comprehensive list of what were considered to be the "original" shoegaze bands...memories good and bad, by the score...

ya know what makes me kinda sad, though?...knowing that the cat on that Chapterhouse LP is, in all likelihood, dead now...

xpost Pillbox: I don't think he has any kids, but you probably subsidized his art supplies over the years!...also, I've never seen better "employee blurbs" than the ones at PIA/Neptune...ran into Alan K. last year...he got out of the biz, but sent me a CD of a local band he was recording...Bleumfontaine or something like that...I quite liked them!

re: M83 They're all right but overrated. Will depend on your tolerance for the Mogwai/Godspeed style.

Sorry Ned, I don't think I was clear but I am completely disagreeing with you here. M83 do not sound anything like those bands.

My Vloody Balentine. (Some DJ somewhere is going to use that as a name.)

-- Ned Raggett

He'll be hearing from my attorney! (Those initials are a registered trademark.)

Henry: OTM on the "employee blurbs" - In those pre-internet olden days, PIA shop tips were responsible for a vast number of records purchased by myself and my friends and, looking back, there was hardly a dud among them. Other kids at our school would ask us where we found out about the music we listened to, but we never told them. I miss Majesty Crush and the rest of the old Detroit space-rock/shoegaze scene too: Asha Vida, Windy & Carl, Fuxa etc.

You can disagree all you like, Spencer! They're still part of the whole we-are-epic,we-are continuum and that hangs heaviest over their whole output, and as it stands I hear sonic connections between them all.

I miss Majesty Crush and the rest of the old Detroit space-rock/shoegaze scene too: Asha Vida, Windy & Carl, Fuxa etc.

Hey, Windy and Carl are still around -- new solo album from Windy out now, full duo album out later in the year, playing Terrastock etc.

in fact, Windy and Carl run a record store (Stormy Records) in my hometown (take a bow, Dearborn!)...

Ned, I think a bunch of shoegaze bands sound that way (especially Slowdive). The sound and arrangements of M83 are much more... precise than those groups and I just don't hear much in the way of an aesthetic connection. The new M83 album has some *amazing* pop tracks, btw.

It might well, I've not heard it! And the last one was the best they'd done yet to my ears.

But right now I'm more thinking about getting the new Portishead. Watching Dan's endless series of OMGs over it on the thread is pure entertainment (and I've no doubt I'll completely agree with him).

Lush and Moose for example, sound particularly dreadful.

To be honest, I never cared for either one to begin with (though I came to shoegaze around '99/'00 so they both may have already sounded too dated by that point.

)

As for M83, I'll side with Spencer on this one. The new record especially is much more New Order (on the pop tracks) and Cocteaus (on the less pop tracks) than anything else, to my ears.

Man it was a good day when I bought the first Pale Saints EP along with the first Lush EP.

Ah, Aron's on Highland...

Memories, corners of mind.

I love that first Lush album/comp so much.

xpost I remember thinking that now all music would be wonderful shoegaze rock with beautiful sleeves.

and yes Dan, I really think Gala contains Lush's very finest moments.

I remember being very excited that they would open for the Cocteaus in late 1990, and they delivered. I have the mental image of them on stage there standing just a little poised as they performed.

Pale Saints = all about the EPs. Come to think of it, the same can be said for a lot of these bands.

The EPs are amazing, but The Comforts of Madness is still one of my favorite albums to listen to all the way through (I do prefer the EP version of "Sight of You" though).

Lush and Moose for example, sound particularly dreadful.

Hold up now... the first handful of Moose EPs may be nothing to write home about, but their albums are flawless. Especially Honeybee and Live A Little Love A Lot, both of which I'd place above Loveless in my list of top albums.

A bold claim, I've not heard much Moose.

I think their name put me off.

Not that I have anything against Mooses.

The only catch is their albums aren't shoegazing.

Spencer -- check out Andy Kellman's reviews of the Moose stuff at the AMG. Big fan and he sums up their appeal well, so if his descriptions work for you, investigate further. Otherwise, as f.hazel says, the trick lies in realizing they're not shoegaze after those first EPs of theirs.

(I do prefer the EP version of "Sight of You" though).

OTM...don't know why they changed it for the LP...Gil Norton, maybe?

Bark Psychosis are usually mentioned as post-rockers more so than shoegazers.

Somewhat after the fact, no? Much of my griping about shoegazer as a term was that it was more or less critical laziness. If they aren't Madchester or grunge and have songs > 5 minutes then they're shoegazer by default.

Post-rock wasn't even a term until the mid/late-90s when some writer out there needed a term for what Kranky was releasing.

"Scott, didn't you write a Village Voice article in 2001 or so about how much you liked a Godspeed album?"

yeah, but i was stoned when i wrote that. i'll admit i fell for their spaghetti western crescendo-rock upon first listen, i just found that i didn't want to KEEP listening. it got old. or i got bored. one or the other. i bought their stuff cuz the people on the old Swans e-mail list i was on wouldn't stop raving about them. basically, i think one album by them is enough to own. if you need to own one. and that sound DID sound exciting at that moment in time. it was just a really brief moment in time. i also reviewed jackie o motherfucker's fig.5 album in that review and there is an album that i would still highly recommend to someone who has never heard it. it isn't shoegaze and it isn't mountain-climbing godspeed rock, but it sure is lovely!

i stand by my review though! at that very moment i was caught in a canadian thunderstorm and i liked it.

Post-rock wasn't even a term until the mid/late-90s when some writer out there needed a term for what Kranky was releasing.

Simon Reynolds first advanced it around 1993, I think. I definitely recall an MM story or two trying to do a genre grouping as such -- the idea, which I still think has something to it, was to describe groups that were using rock-instrumentation-as-such to go against typical ways of playing those instruments. Main and Disco Inferno were the most likely candidates out of that bunch.

oh, and also, the people who have come AFTER godspeed and done what they did. or an approximation of what they did. them i have no time for. cuz then i get REALLY bored. i am no mono fan. i am no explosions in the sky fan. etc. etc.

so, if M83 do sound like that to ned, then that's enough to turn me off of them.

x-post

The Moose Hut EPs are quite good, esp. for Guy Fixsen's production. I'd even argue that "Suzanne" is one of the best shoegaze singles. However, they were better as they morphed into a psychedelic country band. "Honeybee" remains one of the best albums of the 90s even though no one has never heard it.

And nobody's even mentioned Revolver yet!

and now post-rock apparently means sounding like godspeed you black emperor! i learned that after listening to all those rateyourmusic bands i had never heard.

x-post

Simon Reynolds first advanced it around 1993, I think. I definitely recall an MM story or two trying to do a genre grouping as such -- the idea, which I still think has something to it, was to describe groups that were using rock-instrumentation-as-such to go against typical ways of playing those instruments. Main and Disco Inferno were the most likely candidates out of that bunch.

It might have been earlier that he discussed the term, but he wrote the article on the idea in the Wire sometime in 1994(?). I think that article is online somewhere. Seefeel were discussed heavily in that article, so you could argue they were cross-over, but by then they didn't even sound "rock" much less "post."

said thread:

All Those Post-Rock Type Bands I've Never Heard Of That Made Those 2007 Year-End Lists

oh, and also, the people who have come AFTER godspeed and done what they did. or an approximation of what they did. them i have no time for.

I like what Silver Ray is doing, but they also aren't a direct Godspeed lift - more of a parallel.

and now post-rock apparently means sounding like godspeed you black emperor! i learned that after listening to all those rateyourmusic bands i had never heard.

And/or getting listed on http://deletedscenesforgottendreams.blogspot.com/

how many people here bought that Japancakes version of Loveless? the stuff i heard from it sounded pretty cool. (reminded by that post-rock thread)

the Reynolds MM article featured: Pram, Bark Psychosis, Butterfly Child, Laika, Disco Inferno, Papa Sprain, Seefeel and Insides...

maybe he'll post it to the Retro site?

so, if M83 do sound like that to ned, then that's enough to turn me off of them.

That's really the only reason I disagreed with Ned, because I'd hate for that to happen. They really don't sound *anything* like Godspeed, except to Ned!

how many people here bought that Japancakes version of Loveless? the stuff i heard from it sounded pretty cool. (reminded by that post-rock thread)

I found it irritating because I know the songs so well, but I really like other Japancakes stuff.

you can still hear some of the loveless tracks on their myspace:

http://www.myspace.com/japancakesmusic

i like their loomer

yeah, if you are a fanatical mbv person maybe it would be heretical or something. like me and joy division covers. (paul young is still dead to me)

(gira gets a pass cuz he is my giragod)

I really liked the "Heaven or Las Vegas" cover on their myspace page...(liked the MBV stuff too)...I had always dismissed them because of, well, you know...(their name)...

Lush and Moose for example, sound particularly dreadful.

I'd like to join the defense of Moose here. They were my favorite shoegaze band. And yes, I mean their early shoegaze period. IMO no other shoegaze records sounded as urgent (yet beautiful) as "Jack", "Boy", "Last Night I Fell Again". It's the closest shoegaze got to punk.

Their dreamy, wierd "albums" period is also amazing, especially "Live a Little...", but like Ned, f.hazel, said, that's a completely different thing.

I never realized you were a Swans fan, Scott. *shrugs*

Much of my griping about shoegazer as a term was that it was more or less critical laziness. If they aren't Madchester or grunge and have songs > 5 minutes then they're shoegazer by default.

This is really OTM. I just stopped being fazed after awhile when bands like Swervedriver/Adorable/Verve got called shoegaze, even though I still see it as completely inaccurate.

They really don't sound *anything* like Godspeed, except to Ned!

scott, he's right you know. m83 are totally different. check em out.

I await Scott's judgment with interest. (Because I'm right.)

okay, this M83 song "Don't Save Us From The Flames" actually reminds me of Catherine Wheel a bit at the beginning. There is a little spaghetti guitar in there toward the end, but the best thing about this song is that it's, like, three minutes long and that it actually gets somewhere!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sEnDMy28hkE

Yeah, they're definitely a case of shorter = better. One reason why I make (and will continue to make) the comparisons I do was remembering how annoyed I was with that endless song that ends the album "Run Into Flowers" is on, where in comparison "Mogwai Fear Satan" did the same trick much more effectively.

Actually I was realizing that a more easily agreed upon comparison point for everyone might (might!) be Flowchart circa Cumulus Mood Twang.

i like this "Teen Angst" song:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=olG0NFjmzgw

yeah, so far they are way not godspeed or god forbid mogwai. and i like their videos. both songs have propulsion. that's what i like about the original gazers. underneath the gossamer wings was this really steady propulsive drum & bass bottom that kept everything moving. shoegaze always sounded like music that was moving to me.

( i am not a mogwai expert by the way. just from these two songs i don't get mogwai)

i will listen to more. i like what i've heard. gotta go now though.

(i need more flowchart in my life too. and seefeel too. i'll get to it all, i promise!)

Here's the new single (complete with John Hughes homage video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY8iy8S0S4w

One reason why I make (and will continue to make) the comparisons I do was remembering how annoyed I was with that endless song that ends the album "Run Into Flowers" is on, where in comparison "Mogwai Fear Satan" did the same trick much more effectively.

That is maybe the ONE track where I could see there was maybe a similar concept/intent. That is also maybe the one Mogwai track I really like (no surprise that Kevin Shields remixed it).

We're meeting in the middle somehow! Sorta.

Anyway Spencer we must unite against the real enemy -- Dan, and his inexplicable hatred for the glory that is "Domino Dancing."

Oh that Dan! He also overrates "Reverence"!

yeah, i'll never understand that domino dancing thing with dan. wotta weirdo. (best song ever)

If only all enemies were like Dan.

man, i like that graveyard girl! the song and the video. i think i'm sold. it's rare for me to hear any indie rock type stuff that i dig these days.

Yeah, that new single's good stuff. I'll call it ever-improving bootstrapping on the band's part, I will!

"Run Into Flowers" has similarities to Mogwai's "Summer", i.e. both have the quiet/loud contrasts throughout, and have a certain kitchen sink drama and jauntiness about them (instead of the doom and angst that you might expect to hear from similar bands -- and from other Mogwai tracks!). I *still* don't see any overlap between M83 and GYBE though.

Flowchart circa "CMT" definitely operate in the same sphere as M83 do, in that both bands aren't afraid to sound joyous and playful in a genre that is normally too focused on being serious and epic. But if there's one word that *doesn't* describe GYBE, it's "playful".

stop talking about godspeed and mogwai on this thread, wtf are you guys trying to impress, louis jagger?

I now have the wonderful image of Godspeed in a bunch of clown suits coming out on stage and shoving poutine pies into the face of a papier-maiche Uncle Sam.

Quick, somebody make a Spiritualized reference so that Louis will be REALLY impressed! "Let It Come Down" shoots purple rays of noise into my rainbow soul!!

Stoner.

ned it's not nice to accuse other ppl of smoking weed on the internet

;_;

I do think that the first Spacemen album and the Performance are quite shoegaze in approach, but the songs are more blues-y.

Ultimately where do any of us draw the line, though? (Which is probably the overarching theme of the thread.)

"when I stopped paying attention"

just to totally run it into the ground, I'll agree with everyone else on the m83 not sounding like mogwai/godspeed thing. M83 writes pop songs (especially on the new one). Mogwai and Godspeed do not.

(though really, I think all the talk on the subject has more to do with the fact that it's exciting to catch Ned in a rare non-OTM moment than anything else)

xpost, I'm not drawing a line at all. I would include them in this poll and I might actually call the poll something like post-Psychocandy noise (lower case) bands or something maybe even more broad.

I think all the talk on the subject has more to do with the fact that it's exciting to catch Ned in a rare non-OTM moment than anything else

Astounding!

I still think you're all ignoring big elephants in the room but hey.

I would include them in this poll and I might actually call the poll something like post-Psychocandy noise (lower case) bands or something maybe even more broad.

Well yeah, but that's just the flipside of drawing a line, is all! It speaks to the pretty amorphous quality of what shoegazing is supposed to be (or not be).

This was like Sophie's fucking Choice.

I'm going with Lush, although it coulda been Ride, Curve or the Kitchens.

Alex, do you like Loop? I would have pegged you for a fan.

listening to love is hell now god so beautiful. gets me every time...

honestly, as much as i enjoyed the early lush stuff, i don't know how you could pick them over friggin' catherine wheel or slowdive or the big bloody elephant in the room.

or maybe some people just loved the later stuff a whole lot more than i did. and i know people liked it. it just never grabbed me.

Scott, not to keep going on about M83, but I think my favorite track is still "Run Into Flowers".

I just stopped being fazed after awhile when bands like Swervedriver/Adorable/Verve got called shoegaze..

In the case of Swervedriver and Adorable, such genre pigeonholing was especially convenient because their first records were coming out on Creation around the same time as MBV, Ride, Telescopes, Slowdive etc.

I await Scott's judgment with interest. (Because I'm right.)

Ned: nyah! :P

Scott: you owe it to yourself to check out "Run into Flowers" and also "Couleurs" from the new album.

actually i couldn't find "Couleurs" on youtube, but in its absence i give you:

"America" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmLnFuLXloA

"Run into Flowers" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR9VzRd0l-s

scott, yr thoughts pls, k thx bai

The EPs are amazing, but The Comforts of Madness is still one of my favorite albums to listen to all the way through

I believe their catalog is unassailable up until the point that Masters dropped out, at which point they should have broken up or changed their name. Though TCOM is one of my favorite records too, I find myself returning to Half Life, Barging Into the Presence of God, and Flesh Balloon just as often.

"Run Into Flowers" really is the oddest song for me because it's the equivalent of Britney's ".. Baby One More Time" for me -- something so wildly oversold by enthusiastic fans that it did a lot to sour me. "Oops I Did it Again," in La Brit's case, worked far better despite being the 'same' song as its more famous predecessor, and similarly later M83 singles did more for me with their virtues than 'the' song did. Not an exact comparison by any means, but it's the one that comes to mind.

I still find it totally odd that you don't like it.

Eh, it's my own "Domino Dancing," I guess -- though no active hate! At least not now.

We should make a comp of these tracks, trying to think of one that I oddly don't like...

Hahah, we totally should. So is there such a song for you? Scott must have at least one!

i'm sure i do!

i will think of one.

and i will watch more M83 when i have a moment.

this is the part of the thread where i make my plea to all hardcore shoegazeheads to PLEASE do yourself a favor and buy a copy of Katatonia's Discouraged Ones. You'll be glad you did.

He's right, you know. Very good album by a very good band.

Can't think of one off the top of my head.

trying to think of one that I oddly don't like...

for me, it's gotta be "Car Chase Terror"

"Run Into Flowers" is kinda boring on first listen

love all of the Moose praise. also the Play it Again / Neptune reminiscing as well. There was also Spectacle from Detroit(I think one of them worked at PIA) who released one ep that was almost a blend of Slowdive and Pale Saints, pretty good, then their manager stole their name or something moved to LA and released some horrible record. Odd that everyone is dismissing "In Ribbons", it's a classic one of the best things 4ad ever released but then I think Ian Masters is god.

Spectacle! KK that's some obscure shit you're bringing to the table right there. I think I actually have one of their records somewhere. Anyway, In Ribbons is double-aces in my book. "1,000 Stars Burst Open" bitchez!

whatever happened to Ian Masters?...I loved the Spoonfed Hybrid LP, and I know he worked a bit with Warn Defever...then again, whatever happened to PS I Love You?

"Where the Fuck is PS I Love You?"

ask Kevin Shields!

richardaschroftshrug.jpg

Ian Masters made a couple of solo 7"s in fine PS style as Oneironaut, which were very promising, then chucked that to make unlistenable noise with a singing saw as I'm Sore (groan), started Friendly Science Enregisterments as a call to other weirdos, relocated to Japan, at some point, and hasn't been heard from in years.

Meriel Barham makes beautiful tweelectronic music as Kuchen. her Karaoke Kalk CD is sublime. as good as Yokota's much-loved Sakura.

so that's the story behind the two Spectacles! always wondered how the excellent Developing in a World Without Sound and that major-label abortion could have come from the same minds.

what became of Craig "Honeythroat" Badynee?

what became of Craig "Honeythroat" Badynee?

Raising children. Composing a baroque pop masterpiece that may never actually be released, unless it really does come out this year (as has been, once again, promised). Meaning: he is not the brains behind Pas/Cal.

Or.. he really is the brains behind Pas/Cal. Sorry. It's early.

Adding my voice for the Moose love. The first two EPs are perfect shoegaze for me, and weren't they the band which coined the term anyway because of Russell looking at the floor to check his lyrics all the time? By the third EP, they are starting to stretch out a bit and by the time of the album - well - it's like they are a different band, but still a very fine band. Did I ever mention seeing them live in '94? Bloody marvellous. A few years ago I noticed that a band called Moose was playing in TJs in Newport and got excited about it, so I found Russell's email and asked if it was him / them playing and he said "No it wasn't". Shame.

I should also add my continued love for the Swirlies. Found their website a few weeks ago where you can download all their early stuff for free - my cd of 'Blonder tongue...' hasn't played for years, so very happy to hear that again. Don't see the love for the second album with the long title though.

And to reiterate... where's Revolver?

Re: Ian Masters/Warn Defever: I know Warn a bit through friends and I asked him once (about two years ago) about Ian's current goings on. He told me something about Ian conducting sonic experiments in Buddhist temples, which I guess would tie into the Japan thing. If anyone has any more information about this, please share. It's too bad those two never collaborated past the ESP Summer LP, which I like just about as much as anything the Pale Saints or HNIA ever released. It was better than Spoonfed Hybrid at least.

Yes on the ESP Summer LP, my copy of which I treasure.

but they did! sort of. I'm Sore and Princess Dragon-Mom released a split CD. you don't need it. nobody does.

would the 10" of ESP Summer alt. versions on Farrago count as further collaboration? supposedly remixes.

aw, FWIW i love Spoonfed Hybrid. esp. Warn's "Heaven's Knot" remix on Hibernation Shock. bliss!

As for Ian's homepage as such:

http://www.dfuse.com/spoons/

Kinda.

aw, FWIW i love Spoonfed Hybrid. esp. Warn's "Heaven's Knot" remix on Hibernation Shock. bliss!

Two eccentrics, soooooooooooo many side projects. I like Spoonfed Hybrid too, but I think both Defever and Masters are at their best when they aren't so bent on downplaying their pop sensibilities for the sake of real art.

Beatles

ian and warn also released the mountain ocean sun cd together. i haven't heard it. it was supposed to be buddhist type whatevers. there is an i'm sore album of musical saw completed, not sure if it will ever come out. ian was also on winged disk with mark tranmer and i think he's been on a few luminous orange releases. the pas/cal album is such a source of heartache for me. i am convinced it will not ever be released even though he wrote me and insisted that July 22nd was really the date that it was coming out. that shoegazer alive site is a treasure trove, listening to unreleased slowdive demos now, fantastic!!!

Mat from Revolver's new band --- deep cut---not good.

what is the general opinion of Seam - The Problem With Me?
too rocking to be shoegaze?

Oh no, definitely not shoegaze. Fantastic album, though. It turned out to be my fave of theirs in the end, which wasn't the case at the start.

Also this is great reading all this Ian Masters info! I quit trying to keep up with him after awhile (easy to see why). I'm rather intrigued about that Mountain Ocean Sun thing, though. I'd never heard of Craig Badynee before, either. This thread has turned out to be quite educational!

ian masters also did a cassette on time stereo called 'pail saint' at the same time he was in livonia to do the esp.summer. it's not that great, a bunch of noodling, sounds like he did it in about as long as it takes to play. esp.summer is supposed to be reissued with the 10 inch included and the wax cylinder thing they did too. who knows when. asha vida were always kinda legends in detroit, because of their obscurity i think, pas/cal obviously sounds nothing like them.

a tough poll, but ill fo with th' faith healers (ride and loop come second)

th'faith healers sound more like the pixies than slowdive, surely.

Yeah I don't remember anything about Th'Faith Healers that would have ever made me connect them with shoegazing for a minute. Just because they were around at the same time as those bands doesn't mean jack.

As far as Ian Masters goes, see I wasn't even impressed with the Oneironaut stuff I heard, and I thought anything by ESP Summer paled (pun intended!?) in comparison to the majestic Spoonfed Hybrid. So yeah, for me his glory days were long gone when I quit trying.

Maybe another interesting question is what happened to the guy he was in Spoonfed Hybrid with, Chris Trout? (not that I really feel like googling it right now)

he made a couple more bear records and he's now in the (not bad) smokers die younger

right about th faith healers, though great band anyway.

I need to check out Th' Faith Healers, 15 years too late.

Out of this lot, Ride take it for me easily, but really they were my 2nd favourite band for half of my teens so not exactly difficult.

Colonel Poo chooses Ride too!!! You are the deal man!! :)

p.s. check out the Colonel's blog!

Oh goddamnit I'm pulling out one of my live Ride CD's now.

Also my fave Chapterhouse track is "Then We'll Rise" from the Mesmerise EP.

Pearl was then and is now the best Chapterhouse song BUT ONLY THE SINGLE VERSION :P

I ALMOST PULLED OUT THE CD SINGLE 2 MINUTES AGO!!!

Exactly how dumb was I to apply to Reading University based on the fact that Chapterhouse, Slowdive and the Reading Festival are there so it must be a cool place, right?

Playing "Pearl" now...do you know it has the same drum sound as Led Zeppelin's "When The Levee Breaks"?

xpost

Hahah re: Reading University

lol yeah I did know that

Exactly how dumb was I to apply to Reading University based on the fact that Chapterhouse, Slowdive and the Reading Festival are there so it must be a cool place, right?

-- Colonel Poo, Saturday, May 3, 2008 12:30 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

lol @ this because i would have done the same thing

Reading Uni was my 2nd choice but I was one grade off getting into UCL. Never mind.

Is it okay if I promote your blog, Colonel?

Although I guess a shoegazing thread may not be the BEST place to do that.

Anyway maybe I should put on Slowdive's Souvlaki so I can actually remember what it sounds like.

listened to faith healers the other nite cuzza this thread. love that band.

Don't

jones

me

DON'T

jones

ME!

*BRWOARWOAR*

best album. just don't ask me to name a favorite song from that album. who needed grunge when you could just listen to faith healers. and, um, eyehategod. okay, maybe that was just me back then.

No, I'm with you. Interviewed 'em for KUCI at that time too, live in studio. Way friendly peoples. Tape hasn't survived though. :-/

i held on to my CDs. that says something. i've gotten rid of a zillion CDs since then. you'll notice i no longer own any hair & skin trading company or rollerskate skinny CDs. but faith healers i still got.

i voted for th' faith healers, who are the only band listed above that i ever liked anything by. (and nope, i never knew they were a shoegaze band either.)

they weren't really a shoegaze band.

but they are on that list anyway.

eeeearrrggh! I've just realized I've still got Loop's "Heaven's End" on vinyl. I can truly be a teenager again. I feel like someone up there must like me.

A little too trebly on that, but still they kicked JAMC in the arse.

Why don't I have Loop's A Gilded Eternity anymore? Why?

Also I've had their silver album "Fade Out" on CD for a billion years, man. That was one of the very first CD's I bought when CD's first started to become available...1989. I bought it at Tower Records in D.C. and I kept it for years and years I still have it, though I don't really pull it out too much. But I never could part with it. Ever. I did pull it out a few months ago though, when a friend was visiting. Here was this druggy album, and I'd never done drugs in my life when I bought it. I guess I was...18 at the time, for according to the sleeve it came out in '89.

In my humble opinion, Loop beat the shit out of Spacemen 3.

DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND THERE WERE INTERESTING INDIE CHARTS BACK THEN ALL YOU HAD TO DO TO GET TO GOOD MUSIC WAS READ THE INDIE CHARTS IN NME/MM

Now? It's a bloody crapshoot.

Does anyone remember a song on Loop's Heaven's End album called "Fix To Fall" that had a bass line that reminded you of The Fall?

Bimble, do you have the collaboration/split-single Loop made with Godflesh? I think it was called "Fleshloop," or something similar. I read about that in the 90s and have been keeping my eye out for it ever since, to no avail.

No I don't! YOU TEASE!!!

i had it, sold it on ebay but i still have some (poorly done) vinyl transfers of it..

ES: Can you hook a brother up with a YSI/Gmail of that? I'd be eternally grateful as, seemingly, would Bimble.

Musical heaven here on ILX. Film at 11.

on the way

I'm too young to have ever caught Loop live, but I did see The Hair and Skin Trading Company open for someone back in the day and they were fucking great! Super-ominous with a film of bleak wintery wilderness scenes projecting over the band as they played. I've seen Spiritualized and Spectrum a bunch of times, but I think that show was the closest I ever came to witnessing what an old Spacemen or Loop show would have been like. Regrettably, I never saw Main perform which, I'm sure, would have been a treat as well.

Thanks ES!

http://download.yousendit.com/2157898233416E06

^fleshloop/loopflesh 45

This is a bit silly, but I have held off from listening to Loop because he made fun of Slowdive and Young Gods,, but I'll get a Loop album eventually. But I wont forgive him for those remarks.

Loop as gazers.

I remember them making my ears hurt . They were peering through their barnets at the time - long hair hippy types or have I got the wrong band? Another band that were on the psych Stooges tip from what I remember?

To correct my earlier entry , My Vloody Balentine win this competition quite easily. Seriously ,MBV hands down.

Radiohead

Thanks electricsound! That is some heavy ass tuneage there on that Loopflesh/Fleshloop.

I just bought A Gilded Eternity on iTunes, too. RAWK innit?

Yes they were longhairs, Fer Ark.

Cheers Bimble .Sadly enough had it verified immediately by text. Hilarious immediate response to my 'Were Loop Longhairs?' question to big Loop fan from back in the day.

'Yes' was the curt response from said Loopster. He was in B&Q looking for a waste connection for his toilet. Seriously. I am laughing anyhow...

Just rung him. He said 'Look at the fucking album covers' whilst grappling with his toilet piece.

i held on to my CDs. that says something. i've gotten rid of a zillion CDs since then. you'll notice i no longer own any hair & skin trading company or rollerskate skinny CDs. but faith healers i still got.

:-) Did you get the Peel Session CD that came out the other year? Would have loved to have seen the tour they did with that but it was East Coast only.

God, "The Nail Will Burn" is giving me flashbacks of when I saw Loop live. They were loud as hell and everything was vibrating.

bahah "look at the fucking album covers"

But to be fair, they weren't on all their album covers...

Loop rules. Had a seriously intense psych-o-delic experience listening to Fade Out while... My friend just sent me CD-Rs of Peel sessions, singles and other live recordings. Heavy shit. They were total longhairs. That's one of the things I loved about them. They had a real Neanderthal vibe, more Australian or Midwest than English, it seemed to me. That Wooden Shjips bands totally worships Loop.

Really? I still haven't heard that band. I keep meaning to check them out.

They're pretty cool. I'm no freak for them. But I admire the Loop influence (or what sounds like one to me). Loop's legacy seems to get lost in the shuffle a bit. But they were an intriguing band. Like the Scientists and later Six Finger Satellite, they tried to reconcile skinny dude art-punk/new wave with sweaty man greaser rock, at least that's what I took out of it. Wooden Shjips seems to be tapping more The World in Your Eyes than Fade Out. They seems to pick up on Loop's love for Suicide.

Did you get the Peel Session CD that came out the other year?

love love love that one!

That Wooden Shjips bands totally worships Loop.

Sold.

Since this poll has pissed everyone off, what are some of the roots of shoegaze (besides VU, of course). I really dig that Dr. Mix and the Remix album, reissued by Acute. I'm also in love with Television Personalities' Mummy You're Not Watching Me. That record has several tracks that sound like, uh, proto-shoegaze, "David Hockney's Diaries" and "A Day in Heaven" in particular.

Listening to Wooden Shjips' EP now. It's a little more indie rock, but yeah, I think most fans of Loop will sense the connections.

"Pearl was then and is now the best Chapterhouse song BUT ONLY THE SINGLE VERSION"

This would be true had they never recorded "Breather". But 2nd place isn't bad.

From this list:

Th' Faith Healers>Loop>Bailter Space>>>The Telescopes>>>>>>>>>>The Lilys

Never spent much time with any of the rest.

Remember Th' Faith Healers live (Cat's Cradle, Chapel Hill, NC) as one of the best shows of the early 90s.

Not a "shoegaze" band, tho (obligatory).

Double vinyl of A Gilded Eternity at top volume through big speakers = very scary experience of god.

They came a bit later(1995?),, but Sianspheric have made some of the most perfect shoegazing ever.

As has been said before, the fans just label anything they feel like labelling with the genre, which I'm actually grateful for. I discovered so much great stuff because of this.

It's just like when a literary novel gets called Horror Fiction,, a million snobby windbags start trying to say it isnt horror,, but the WHOLE POINT of putting this label on things is to get them to people who will enjoy it. Red House Painters have very wrongly been labelled Shoegaze,, but most Gazing fans love RHP. But then most Gaze fans love Slowcore.
Watership Down is one of the greatest horror films ever made in my opinion,, I dont care that it aint strictly within the Horror Genre,, it just satisfies the horror fan within me more than most classic horror films.

I find the things that often get called Proto-Punk and Prog a lot more silly categorisations. People can argue almost anything as having Punk or Progressive ethics,, I think it should be defined by the actual sound rather than the ideas. Lots of Punk has no punk ethic and lots of Prog is not in any way progressive.

I've found out that a lot of Darkwave music holds MY perfect shoegaze sound((surely every fan has an idealised version of what they want from shoegazing)).
I like MBV,, but I've always swung much further towards the Dreampop/slower/softer shoegaze/ambient/Darkwave side. The Cure/Cocteau Twins/Slowdive/Cranes/Lycia side of the Shoegazing/Dreampop world. I could listen to that stuff forever.

Remember Th' Faith Healers live

Probably one of the loudest shows I ever attended. Awesome.

i held on to my CDs. that says something. i've gotten rid of a zillion CDs since then.

Ha! Same with me. They were one of my musical touchstones in the early 90s. I don't think I would have discovered a lot of other music (especially minimalism and krautrock) if it weren't for them.

Regardless, I don't know if I'd put them in the shoegaze camp.

But I can't stand it. I'm playing Ride's "Taste" very loud. My neighbors hate me. But I don't care because it is giving me an orgasm. And I will play "here & now" soon so you can go fuck yourselves if you don't believe that the Today Forever EP is the best thing that ever happened to your ears. Please stop.

who fucking gives a crap about MBV when you have ride?

Ride is a fucking orgasm okay? I don't care if you're just a young 20 something person and you just figured out that the goddamn VAPOUR TRAIL will kill your soul

okay

I'm too young to have ever caught Loop live, but I did see The Hair and Skin Trading Company open for someone back in the day and they were fucking great!

The very last Hair & Skin album is tremendously great. I kinda wish they had kept going after that

After all these years, I still like Loop's live stuff more than the studio albums.

Also, this is the thread where I tell people to listen to Loop's "Heaven's End" (the title song) and then The Monkees' "Sweet Young Thing." Report back with your findings.

The very last Hair & Skin album is tremendously great. I kinda wish they had kept going after that

Yeah, found that one the other year. Quite good.

this is the thread where I tell people to listen to Loop's "Heaven's End" (the title song) and then The Monkees' "Sweet Young Thing." Report back with your findings.

It appears that the Monkees directly influenced Loop on "Heaven's End." Thank you for pointing out this unlikely development.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

The best of these bands did their best material on albums that couldn't possibly be called shoegaze. Voted Boo Radleys, because of "Wake Up!" and partly "Kingsize"

No, but it's still all about Loop's "Arc Light" 12". I am serious. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT.

Please someone tell me you remember that riff.

i do cuz i used to watch the video a lot. had it on an old homemade vhs mtv 120 minutes tape i'd made at the time.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7qc_pXs22ug

We just watched the video for that on Youtube, we were looking up old Chart Show Indie Chart specials. I first heard loads of this stuff like Spacemen 3, Spiritualized, Drop Nineteens on that show. It was only on every 3 or 4 weeks for about 10 minutes.

were there any shoegaze videos that were not incredibly boring?
i kinda like 'de-luxe' and 'mesmerise' but weren't the rest really dull?

"Arc Lite" has a good riff, but it's not Loop's best. That would be "Burning World"--and then we're talking the bass. Or maybe "Collision"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQvkNaYveRQ&feature=related

I'm going through a big Kitchens phase right now...

I've gone for the Boo Radleys by default.

-- the next grozart

all because of those three EP's.

even though they have no business on this list, my vote is for Loop. Slowdive would be a close second.

Chapterhouse's incessant use of "When the Levee Breaks" proved highly ironic.

I put in my vote for Kitchens as I think most of my other favorites (MBV, Ride, Slowdive, Faith Healers, Loop, Swervedriver) are gonna get enough love. I do really like Bailter Space though, I hope they do alright here...

The questions is, which band(s) will get 0 votes?

i'm glad someone other than me is voting for the kitchens. probably for the same reason -- a kinda sympathy thing -- but, you know, that band and the 19-year-old me ...

last minute MBV vote because everything else I had tried bored me

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Duh.

Poll Results

My Bloody Valentine 31

...boring.

I'm surprised by the number of votes Loop got. I definitely have to listen to more of their stuff (read: "I've only listened to one song and can't even remember how they sound").

the Boo Radleys gets six votes, YEAH. Moose at five is great too considering they change everything and got so much better. Swervedriver and Pale Saints at four with the Telescopes and Catherine Wheel getting three a piece. very nice work, like always, ILM!

Pale Saints deserve better.

OTM, such a good band.

Kitchens fans unite! All 7 of us!

Someone really voted for The Swirlies over My Bloody Valentine? That was an accident, yes?

the swirlies were fantastic. highly deserving of more votes than loop in my mind but you know they don't have the cool cache. good thing the dead c weren't in this poll.

over 100 votes cast, that's got to be one of the more popular polls recently?!

and yes - GO KITCHENS! If I could have had two votes then I think Pale Saints would have edged it for second choice (obv. huge MBV love but such a foregone conclusion); "A Thousand Stars Burst Open" comes round on my walkman far more frequently than shuffle should allow and it is is still absolutely incredible. I always loved the way that Pale Saints managed to bring a little blues to their sound, when most others were just piling on whooshing noises.

Ride 8
Kitchens of Distinction 7

really. i'm shocked. not unhappily.

It'd be interesting to see how this poll would've turned out at the height of shoegazer/scene wot celebrates itself era.

OK, how many of you lot voted for bands you were in?

I think that if the poll had happened in '91 Chapterhouse might have had more than one vote. Anyone else excited about the "Blood music" reissue? No? Didn't think so.

Catherine Wheel 2

This makes me sad ^

I absolutely adore this band -- Ferment, Chrome, Adam & Eve all fantastic records; I can't find more than a couple bands on this poll who have *three* great records to their name. Slowdive, Loop, Kitchens... that's it.

Fair warning: sometime later this year, after we do the 2009 albums/singles poll and the 2005-09 albums/singles poll, I'm probably going to conduct a "best" shoegaze/dreampop albums poll (first wave and all waves since included). Just letting ILM know in advance (because the '70s album poll that just wrapped up was pretty fun).

This is probably my own obsession, but I'd love to see an all-inclusive poll of "bands that started out shoegaze, and then dropped it and went off in a radically different direction." E.g. lilys, jennyanykind, ride, boo radleys, etc. For whatever reason, that particular subset of bands were often really brilliant.

Early Verve is way too underrated for my liking. Majestic and pretty much the epitome of "shoegaze."

I was thinking of doing an alternative 90's poll, with a radically different voting system, namely no nominations process, and 200 points allotted to each voter, to do as they please with. If you think Loveless deserves all 200 then go for it. Except Loveless won't be getting any points at all because it was in the first poll.

Wondering if Catherine Wheel's Adam And Eve counts as a shoegaze album, because if it is it'd be my favourite. As well as my favourite mainstream rock album of the decade. It's like one classic alt anthem after another.

My favorite is definitely The Swirlies. They're my favorite band overall.

that glittering salons album would definitely be in my top 10, maybe 5

(of shoegaze, not the decade overall)

Yeah same here, except it would be decade overall, since I love it and is barely a shoegaze album!

'Shoegaze' is definitely a stretch, but it's also a broader church than it's often given credit for. It'd possibly be in my decade top 25 overall. The SONG 'Two Girls Kissing' would have a great chance of making a 90's ballot of mine.

I'm going to leave Shoegaze & dreampop definitions up to interpretation. I mean, I'm not going to accept any votes for Dr. Dre or Iron Maiden, but it'll be pretty loose.

Yeah they really broke free of the "derivative of MBV" write-off with that album, but many people still frustratingly say that about them. Even Blonder Tongue is way ahead of its time for 1993; it doesn't sound dated at all to me.

Swirlies that is.

yeah it's definitely an album that's hard to place, and hard to compare other things to. an original vision. perhaps it'll sidle up my overall list; it's certainly a varied and exciting blast from start to finish. some pretty great songwriting too!

I wonder whether a singles/EPs poll might work better? From memory there were piles of great debuts, but a lot of these bands never got as far as an album (InAura), didn't really manage a definitive work (Adorable), or by the time they did were no longer 'gazers (Slowdive).

We've got MONTHS to sort it out.

i'm looking very forward to this. it's funny because i went out with old friends just last night and i was telling them that i think this time period was the best time of my life. i saw most of these bands live and have a lot of stories that i will share when this poll happens later this year.

^^^^^^^^

What Ever Happened To Shoegazing?

Melody Maker 1992 article, parts one and two

They sure had Ocean Colour Scene's number.

Do you think the parody of a Scene kid - the mimsy, Keats-reading, middle-class undergrad mummy’s boy called Quentin with spots, a blue-and-white hooped t-shirt and a copy of “Isn’t Anything” under one arm – is in any way accurate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhE-0IDpkiM

what track is this?

duhhh.. read the youtube title you idiot..

I need this record..