chicago's "hipster-hop" scene and backlash

theres some discussion on this sort of thing starting here:
rolling ringtone thread 2008

i think hes selling the anti-hipster rap critique short if he thinks its just a bunch of dudes no homo-ing all the time

-some downright loathsome shit that needs to get murked (Uffie, Kid Sister)

-- Whiney G. Weingarten, Tuesday, June 10, 2008 3:38 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

lol Kid Sister's "Control" is like my favorite hip-hop single from the last couple of years

Kanye's music is "ironic"? RONG

The problem is that shallow is fun, but if all you've got is shallow, it gets boring/glib fast.

It's hard to believe that's an article that someone actually saw fit to publish, in terms of the topic and the quality of the writing.

hmm interesting take on the article!

this stuff is semi-big here too... i'm kind of so-so on most of it but i wish that article had presented both sides a little better.

i mean the homophobic backlash thing is one thing and the "you weren't there" is another but surely this stuff attracts criticism beyond that?

usually I'm on the side of "let em have their fun" but I'm not gonna go to bat for the Cool Kids and Spank Rock

not sure how Kanye got lumped in there other than he sampled Daft Punk

he also hangs with a-trak, who is his dj, who co-runs kid sister's label etc etc

I couldn't be bothered to listen to the Cool Kids' last album all the way through, it's pretty boring.

oh right (xpost)

part of the critique I think is a knee-jerk "you put techno in my hip-hop!!!!"

this debate is pretty much the rap equivalent of "Justice isn't real dance music"

The only time I really waste any time thinking about this shit is when I go to some site like Nah Right for mainstream rap news and half the posts are about these retro douchebags.

xp except 'real dance music' that most of justice's detractors are repping for is not actually popular or easily accessible to most people, whereas fun, stripped down good times party rap is all over the place

http://www.hhcmagazine.com/index.php?id=48#story3

Quality of the writing? That's actually really well (if selectively) argued, especially the way it calls out some slight dissonance and possible racial typecasting in this sentence:

It’s not the less comfortable aspects of black culture it avoids but the less comfortable aspects of hip-hop culture -- the thuggishness and ignorance, hardly confined to black artists and fans, that high-minded blogs like Oh Word and Unkut.com go out of their way to criticize in mainstream rappers.

my biggest problem with it is its responding to 'the backlash' and doesnt really delve into any critiques beyond 'it was done before' and 'lol homos'

part of the critique I think is a knee-jerk "you put techno in my hip-hop!!!!"

-- dmr, Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:03 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

yeah but i don't think ppl have a prob with bambaataa or breakdance music.

they have a problem w/ the euro element but thats kind of beside the point to me

Yeah, deej, that's part of why I say "selectively" -- he's knocking out some of the more easy/obvious arguments, not necessarily deeper ones. But this may be in part because (as on this thread) it's not that common for people to articulate much in the way of deeper or different complaints!

Matt's getting at another point of slight dissonance -- the way certain things are only okay when strictly confined to a bygone era, but frowned on in the present: this is totally natural and true of any genre, but it complicates any complaints that newcomers aren't being true to the past.

I should just admit that I think a lot of the perfectly natural hostility to this stuff has to do with people not wanting to see a bunch of attention paid to a new area of hip-hop that's more "corny" and lighthearted and appealing to (often white) people who aren't into other sorts of hip-hop, because those are not the qualities that got them attached to hip-hop in the first place. (And like DMR says, that's no different than fans complaining about "fake dance music" or "fake metal" or anything else that's more jovial and fun, ingratiating, and accessible -- it's 100% normal.)

I'm sure plenty of people's turn-offs revolve around substantive claims like "the MCs aren't as good" or whatever -- but even those complaints often have to do with having standards of what "good" is that are based on your deeper beliefs about what the genre should be like. (Also normal.) But surely most of the blanket hostilities/dismissals are based on the stuff above.

that argument amounts to 'everything is subjective' though doesnt it

in the rolling ringtone thread i linked to above i talk more about my issues w/ this stuff and the cool kids in particular. i can talk about how i like isolated singles here and there that i enjoy, but then im as bad as alex in nyc saying he likes some random R&B song right??
i also like crossover 'hipster hip hop' which isnt really hipster at all but is just straight up pop (i.e. i like kanye and lupe)

its easiest (and i do this in the ringtone thread) to orient my argument around concrete ethical issues but on a purely musical level i dont see 'quality' being tied to the press coverage in a way that makes any damn sense - its entirely ideology. i dont have a problem with fun-loving, barrier breaking rap music (kanye again) but i do have a problem w/ the way artists are seemingly plucked from nowhere based on who they know and who they party with

i mean i object to that in one sense ('distorted view of history' media coverage etc) and in another, more subjective one (some of this shit really genuinely is hard for me to understand the appeal of on anything OTHER than an ideological level, i.e. the cool kids seem like nice nonthreatening guys - but dont tons of people??? isnt this just Jurassic 5 all over again but with clipse for a stylistic touchpoint rather than sugarhill gang?)

pretty much i think.

yeah this stuff annoys me and i can't really put my finger on it.

i kinda like that first jurassic EP better than any cool kids i've heard

i think ive exhausted all i have to say about this in the pretty good and substantial discussion ringtone 08, but i thought this article was well-written and got as close to the heart of the issue as maybe anything ive seen when he talks about ppl jocking the cool kids bcuz they feel ownership of the musical styles that they are copping. but the clothing issue is still rly prevalent amongst traditionalist/ppl really into gangster rap but that's something that rap's been dealing with ever since what cam'ron's pink phase? kanye? before then?

as i wrote when i reviewed their ep, there are an innumerable amount of people who saw a pic of the cool kids (hell plenty on ilx as a matter of fact) and immediately dismissed them based up on the ropes or the shoes or the hats, but let's remember that the cool kids had to anticipate that, for the lack of a better term, "real" rap fans were going to not fuck with them from the jump or have a hard time coming around to them, whereas hipster-types who dress like them would probably get on the wagon pretty early. so whether or not they are connected w/ media ppl or whatever, and i said this in ringtone, i think the cool kids are explicitly aiming for a white, rock-listening, "hip" audience (as whiney said, rapping about bikes and sega and not violence or misogyny) which is why they are getting shine over say gucci mane

something about the backpatting insular insider-yness of this all rubs me the wrong way.

That kinda gets into the blurring points between hostility to music and hostility to press treatment, but out of curiosity and devil's-advocacy, I have to ask: what's wrong with that ideology? I mean, it's a fair point if you feel like the music's crap and only embraced on the basis of an ideology that leads to ... crap music, but sometimes ideology is essential to people anyway; it's certainly at play with a lot of the people who criticize these acts!

^^ That's also what I meant above -- not "everything's subjective," but just that certain standards of quality are often tied to ideology. Talk for more than a few minutes about what makes someone a "good" MC, and you're going to run into some underlying beliefs about what an MC is supposed to accomplish, which skills are important and which aren't, etc., you know? Like with anything.

i sort of like the cool kids until i see a pic of them.

something about the backpatting insular insider-yness of this all rubs me the wrong way.

-- deej, Wednesday, June 11, 2008 5:34 PM (43 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

what's the diff between spank rock insidering his way to an urb cover and the game or rick ross or mariah carey insidering their way into an xxl or vibe cover

those artists have actually had hits

I totally don't mean this as a complaint against people here, but it's getting to the point this year where I really wish every discussion of acts' media connections/manipulation/luck/whatever were replaced with lists of other acts people thought deserved the press instead; I'd probably hear more great music that way.

nabisco, check the link i made to cocaine blunts in the ringtone thread where he posts a version of big tuck rapping over the same sample the cool kids have also used

nabisco, like i said the ideology is not per se objectionable to me, kanye's crossover act that somehow managed to hit up basically every music-listening demographic is a great example of how to make it work ...

im not sure that i disagree with the rest of your post, but that can be used to defend virtually anything, so im not really sure what to do with it either. i started writing some long post about art being about the perception of difference and realized i would come off like a very poor man's tim f.

like yeah people arent 'wrong' for liking the cool kids any more than i'm 'right' for liking the color green, but where does that leave us

i dislike these acts because when i meet people who like these acts i dislike those people

generally speaking

kanye's so much more interesting and quality on every level than the cool kids.

i dislike these acts because when i meet people who like these acts i dislike those people

-- max, Wednesday, June 11, 2008 5:52 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

in chi u will run into very likeable chixx who are into this stuff :-/

those artists have actually had hits

-- deej, Wednesday, June 11, 2008 5:39 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

homie, spank rock has hits to people who read urb, just like rick ross has hits to ppl who read xxl

you're seriously conflating "media" with "urb magazine and pitchfork" across these threads now, because there are plenty of good and influential rap media outlets who could give a fuck less about hipster rap and in fact (cf dudes quoted in the chicago reader article) are very hostile towards it. your idea of media wrt this whole thing seems to be locked in on indie rock magazines (which is what urb is) and indie rock websites, which is your problem and not ours or the cool kids

i didnt mean for that last part to come off as hostile as it is

im not drawing any battle lines here

homie, spank rock has hits to people who read urb, just like rick ross has hits to ppl who read xxl

yeah but for urb its a chicken or egg argument

where do you think 'hipsters' get the idea to start listening to cool kids?

basically what i've been saying in ringtone and will say again now is if you're getting mad @ indie rock magazines for not putting gangster rappers on the covers of their magazines (or jocking hipsters for digging "black mags" and not "wipe me down") you're leading yourself down a v miserable path

yeah but for urb its a chicken or egg argument

-- deej, Wednesday, June 11, 2008 5:56 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

sure sure, and look i dont think this is a bad thing really because i dont mind the idea of magazines trying to out scoop the internet nowadays-- esp if it leads to ppl like jay electro being on the covers of indie rock magazines and not ben gibbard

where do you think 'hipsters' get the idea to start listening to cool kids?

-- deej, Wednesday, June 11, 2008 5:56 PM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

you're asking me to solve the chicken v egg argument? is urb covering the cool kids cuz they know their audience is listening to them or is it the other way around? i dont know, i think you're being v cynical if you think hipsters have been brainwashed into liking hipster rap by urb magazine

i think that i hear all the time from ppl who heard about some act or another from pfork

urb is another issue that seems to only reinforce an existing echo chamber

as far as chicken v egg thing goes with someone like spank rock who has enough of a trajectory to chart, he came up, and correct me if im wrong, through diplo who started getting him burn in hipster clubs until he was big enough among hipsters (big strawman here but w/e) to land on the cover of the fader and urb or whatever. in the case of spank rock, his media coverage amongst hipster outlets is just like the strokes making a spin cover

so in conclusion, everything is as it should be

basically what i've been saying in ringtone and will say again now is if you're getting mad @ indie rock magazines for not putting gangster rappers on the covers of their magazines (or jocking hipsters for digging "black mags" and not "wipe me down") you're leading yourself down a v miserable path

-- J0rdan S., Wednesday, June 11, 2008 5:57 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

If my knock on the quality of the writing was too vague, I just meant that the whole thing came off very bloggy and half-assed for what I guess was published in an actual paper -- focusing on picking apart what one guy on one website said when it could've addressed a much wider backlash to this stuff happening all over the place online and offline, referencing and dismissing a celebrity like Q-Tip's opinion without actually quoting or getting into the particulars of it, all in first person (although I guess it's a column so I guess that's the nature of the column?). I could see some writers, maybe one or two of the people in this thread, mounting a much better defense of this stuff (in an article, I mean, not just nitpicking specific points on a msg board).

this stuff and Rhymefest is the only hip hop I ever see written up in the major papers. Greg Kot is all over someone's jock=reflex action to stay far away.

could it be that the music these hipster hop guys make sucks? that is the only problem for me. when kanye had a couple joints, i was perfectly alright with him. now that he is all hype and no tracks, fuck him. lupe, cool kids, they just kind of suck. spank rock is just complete bullshit, what horrible music. of course, i toss MIA in here too, i cant believe people really listen to that shit.

interestingly i think Diplo's solo album was pretty fucking dope. he just made good music, it got overlooked because of his hipster mashup stuff. that is about typical of what i expect from the people who like this crap. none of the fans of hipster hop are die hard Native Tongue fans or anything like that. that kind of light hearted hiphop has continued to live on in groups like J5 (i cant even believe anyone would compare their EP to the cool kids WTF), soulsides/quannum, little brother, etc. hipster hop is nothing like that stuff.

by the same token deej i dont see you patting pitchfork on the back for extensively and positively covering t.i., ugk, jay-z, lil wayne, beanie sigel, the game, dj khaled etc. either

kot's a good writer and a good dude writing for a certain, chicago tribune-reading audience

-- deej, Saturday, August 4, 2007 8:19 PM (10 months ago) Bookmark Link

thank you for your insightful take on the matter pipecock glad to have you back

this is gonna go the way of freak-folk in 18 months and we're not even gonna get our Golden Apples Of The Sun

Hahaha b-b-but Diplo's solo album was indier than any party stuff from any of these acts -- like total post-Endtroducing "cinematic" beat/electronica stuff that could have come out on Plug Research or something. (Did Blockhead do the same thing at some point?) I was bummed about that!

"Hahaha b-b-but Diplo's solo album was indier than any party stuff from any of these acts -- like total post-Endtroducing "cinematic" beat/electronica stuff that could have come out on Plug Research or something. (Did Blockhead do the same thing at some point?) I was bummed about that!

-- nabisco"

but that was what was good about it, he wasnt appealing to any crowd with it, he just made music that he liked. and it turned out well! i feel like these hipster hop guys are very self conscious about their image and who they market themselves to, it is pretty annoying.

yeah they should be more like mainstream rappers who arent at all self-conscious about their image or who they market themselves to

i dont like the mainstream rappers either, for many of the same reasons.

nabisco argue with me, not pipecock plz!!

by the same token deej i dont see you patting pitchfork on the back for extensively and positively covering t.i., ugk, jay-z, lil wayne, beanie sigel, the game, dj khaled etc. either

-- J0rdan S., Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:17 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

i like that they cover those artists although some of the writing i find to be suspect

i mean, if you're going to cover rap, why not try to actually cover rap, right?

kot's a good writer and a good dude writing for a certain, chicago tribune-reading audience

-- deej, Saturday, August 4, 2007 8:19 PM (10 months ago) Bookmark Link

-- jaymc, Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:18 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

i still think this, i happen to disagree w/ his coverage of the cool kids

actually i havent read his coverage of cool kids but usually he does a good job of keeping shit in perspective at least, like the angle is about reporting on the hype rather than about how these guys are breaking down boundaries or whatever

i mean not that he does it in a critical way but in a good journalistic one

there really is not that much of this stuff out there to necessitate all this....it's a non-story

the cool kids wear 10 deep hoodies and goofy sunglasses and love sneakers. they also have a sound that like two or three groups have kinda jumped off with (they're not biting, just saying)

that's pretty much the whole thing. I guess the fact that they dress funny helped get them their buzz but it wasn't some new rap genre or even a new scene that did it.

and thank god it's not really a scene cuz I think if I heard someone actually say this with a straight face i would laugh hysterically at them

i can't take this every other line ends in bitch

chicken verse egg?????

who cares as long as its cool

its just vapid heads who dont get anything from a verse except the badge of being cool, words bouncing out of their thought like some damn fools, but thats just me

preview of the matrix 12 off the money

and even if there isn't enough to warrant "this" why does that matter? i mean let's not forget that like 2 months ago you were deep in a discussion about r&b "trends" that focused on like 8 songs let alone 8 groups

deej, I like Kot too; I was just anticipating your response.

I don't dislike him, but he really has no business writing about hip hop of any sort.

very bloggy and half-assed for what I guess was published in an actual paper

kind of, the reader is a free alt. weekly.

I know, and I think if I sent something like that to the free alt weekly I write for, they'd edit it heavily or send it back.

like i said, i don't really have the expertise to judge this particular column but dude is generally one of my favorite music writers, he only writes about stuff he's enthusiastic about and consistently reps local acts

i saw him at stella's on tuesday night and if that was his old lady he was talking to then he's pretty much living a close to perfect life.

I should want to cook him a simple meal. But I shouldn't want to cut into him... to tear the flesh... to wear the flesh... to be born unto new worlds where his flesh becomes my key.

pipecock beat me to the whole late-90s indie rap thing, although with a really glowing endorsement.

How is this any different from the "taking it back to real rap" articles from that time where you end up with Rawkus acts, Quannum, Jurassic 5, Dilated Peoples, a handful of turntablist collectives, and other acts that were supposedly some sort of alternative to "mainstream" or "commercial" rap for a different set? This just seems like another group of artists who have another spin on hip hop, one that might not even be shared among all of them, that might have a loose affiliation that's been strengthened by a shared base.

Some people don't like what others have decided is a "scene" within an established genre, really new stuff happening here.

but it isnt really new stuff happening, thats the point

http://www.epiccentre.com/doky/obamawheelie.jpg
chicago hipster-hop

AHAHAHAHAHAHA! No homo! Yess!

to the point about jurassic, dilated, etc etc

this stuff *feel* different to me in a way i can't quite articulate...now you could totally call out late 90s rawkus soundbombing type dudes for a lot of stupid shit they said, and a lot of annoy ways in which they were positioned in the press....all sorts of dimbulb "keeping the spirit of true hip hop alive" etc etc...buuuuuuuut:

at least dilated and shit like that felt like they were a part of hip hop...like you would have nate dogg and pharoah together or stuff like that...this stuff seems really separate from hip hop, almost if hip hop style -- old school style -- is sort of just another element of magpie kitch culture....like it feels like these dudes are just wearing a halloween costume to some indie rock party cuz everyone will think it's "soooo awesome"...

and also the audience for it just seems like the same ppl that jock whatever is on top of the blog buzz b.s. for that month, like MGMT or MIA or Daft Punk 2 years ago....

anyway, and this is probably "rockist" and stupid and everything else but it's how i feel, like none of these people really feel like they are invested in the music or even the idea of hip hop in general...like for whatever it's worth atmosphere and dilated were hard workers and seemed to genuinely love hip hop in a way

it just seems like this shit eats up a whole lot of attention and empty calories and then will just poof disappear, i mean is anyone going to be excited for the third cool kids record?

^^all of which seems bad for the music in the long term, to me

like none of these people really feel like they are invested in the music or even the idea of hip hop in general

this is really really otm, at least w/ regards to the stuff im not feeling

you guys I don't know this music at all, ok, I got no horse in the actual race, but: just making music is kind of evidence of investment in it. So what's going on here is telling people how to be invested and what the right type of engagement looks like, or at least that's how it seems to me. In other words, yes rockism. I am kinda on the fence about authenticity tropes post-2005 (stuff in my own professional life led me to think "maybe actually 'feeling it/meaning it/realness' isn't the ridiculous mockable dead tired trope you've been dismissing it as all this time") but am just saying: telling people that they are or aren't "engaged" according to yr own standards of engagement seems a little fishy to me. IOW: some people wear costumes because that's how they're most able to represent themselves - you know? There are lots & lots of ways to be real.

and yes I know everybody here has probably had this discussion 10,000,000 times but what the hell, it pertains I think

The hipster-hop that I've liked (which, if we're discounting Kanye and Lupe, I guess is basically just like Kid Sister; Cool Kids emceed a show my band played, but I wasn't really paying attention to them) I've liked because it sounded cool (hot synths, Kid Sister's raspy voice); I could give a shit about scenes.

just saying: telling people that they are or aren't "engaged" according to yr own standards of engagement seems a little fishy to me.

uh i dont think anyone here is telling the cool kids they arent engaged here, people are not feeling the music and discussing why that is, and its totally valid to explore the idea that, to grab a quote from upthread, these guys come off like they're "wearing a halloween costume to some indie rock party" as opposed to real hip hop

btw i havent really listened to any of this this :D
i dont remember anything about the spankrock album except that it was shit
"kick, push" is good and i like it
thats about it

to the contrary sleep, matt said:

anyway, and this is probably "rockist" and stupid and everything else but it's how i feel, like none of these people really feel like they are invested in the music or even the idea of hip hop in general

= "feel like they are invested"=are engaged

that's all I was rly responding to

its plenty of fucking underground acts wtf are you all talking about. if yr a cool motherfucking hipster then yr down withem. if a hipsters act is real cool then the underground digs them. it aint this simple/complicated mess of diluting self-evident issues that foul music gets foul following. who cares? why not start your own urb i u got a friend whose smart with 10000 dollars but call it a better name? why not start a new ezine that instead of hating brings acts that are real to show? who the fuck cares about what some dude with mediocre opinion writes something dumb?

i seen a spank rock video n none of theye audience could dance. if it aint srs lyrics then there shld be srs dancing. this is how i judge music

who cares? why not start your own urb i u got a friend whose smart with 10000 dollars but call it a better name? why not start a new ezine that instead of hating brings acts that are real to show?

real fucking talk

live lyric should hit the crowd and the dumb crowd falls back and the ones who get it see it and its good. if your crowd is just some wack motherfuckers the rap usually dont get itself

its dangerous brinin nokey acts to the floor tho cuz journalists is some nosey bitches. u gotta be careful writin about music unless u cld turn it into legal action right. sum music just to communicate, u know.

i mean u more a pr man if ur a smart journalist, u could make a lot of money that way

if it aint srs lyrics then there shld be srs dancing. this is how i judge music

real fucking talk pt 2

advertising

xpost

it aint easy being a show-off though cuz if u pull up some tablecloths under a meal like u some sort of magic trick ull get hit with a bottle of wine, real talk

itd be better to interview and coopt the review with that

like multiple sources, like a criticism of all the criticism and then direct contact most of the time, but also like the history of yams in the same issue, and with marxist essays from the FARC leader, plus nude photos of bbws and violence throughout the world with sobering subtexts and also the odd spread of female bodybuilders

= "feel like they are invested"=are engaged

-- J0hn D., Friday, June 13, 2008 1:51 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Lin

i saw that but nobody here is talking TO these artists and telling them they arent engaged, theyre talking amongst themselves and saying, yknow, i'm not feeling this because the artists don't come off as/appear to be engaged, important distinction i thought but w/e

invest the profit in rice

i don't know how the cool kids feel about anything. i was just saying that's how they feel to me.

but yeah usic i'm not exactly torn up inside about this shit. and i'm prolly not going to start an urban music magazine anytime soon.

i've sort of come to accept that -- at heart -- i'm kinda corny and sincere and rockist and shit like that. especially about hip hop. i try to be openminded about stuff and keep my ears open but sometimes i just feel like bullshit is bullshit.

i said what i was saying was probably silly and that i can't quite articulate very well what hits me as wrong about this stuff.

it's probably good i'm not a rock critic or a blogger.

anyway i'm about t' buy a domain and if any of yall want to try to write/thinktank gmail me. it should be up in a while, youtube farces must be included.

yeah point taken sleep, I'm not saying people need to STFU or anything, I just think discussion = good hateration = bad

just making music is kind of evidence of investment in it.

key words there are "kind of". britney spears could come out in hammer pants and bust a fly verse for a single, but would that mean she was invested in the music in any substantial way?

investing in music is generally a bad business decision as I understand it, especially disco.

possible domains... cuzitdontstop undergroundmainstream icci-trigger
rapliberationtheology is lame as hell. all these are lame. damn how i'm gonna write when i ccan't think of a title.

itll explain why white people are offended at their prescribed meaning of language when the intention subverts them more open to phonetical origin

britney spears could come out in hammer pants and bust a fly verse for a single, but would that mean she was invested in the music in any substantial way?

Strawmen are easy. Which artists are invested in hip-hop and how can you tell?

usic: stop blogging pls

bnw i'm bringing it to the table.

artists invested in hip hop bring reality checks to the listener, and if the lister is deaf it's to infiltrate his empty mind

thats what hiphops about really, how well could you hear and what substance will you be interesting and how you pronounce

aint about nothing else. its all about game and lif

e

e

-- usic, Friday, June 13, 2008 2:32 PM (15 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

this is a clue to usic's identity

I do have to give credit to the dudes for holding their own with probably the two best rappers doin it on that kidz in the hall remix

xxp could have sworn you were talking about the game and mr. lif there usic

more like gcpebl

i actually like what i've heard by kidz in the hall a lot.

chinchillas what u talkin about

i'ma listen to kids in the hall

my theory is that el p is fishhooking and propegating furries in the rap world, just a hunch

im talkin about the cool kids rappin with pusha and bun...not feeling kidz in the hall really but they've been around for a while so not really part of this little mini-cool kids movement that people around here are geting all aroused for

nah el-p is a bigger hipster than anyone in this thread, that dude probably listens to jens lekman

wtf kidz in the hall do they even feel what the fuck "drivin down the block" can be construed to mean? where are they from are they thuggin... maybe. i get "turn a car into a cigarette"??? no. i'm so hip hop cuz i'm rhyming like clipse impersonating thugs with nice cars? none of this is clever, it's played out. why is this considered hipster-hop. this seems like fake gangsta rap. wtf are you guys talking about

theyre just jackin swishahous for their slang. this is crazy. what the hell is hipster hop about this.

this is fucking ridiculous. i thought this would be some whiteboy weirdo rap.

el-p cosigned these dudes? are they fakers? they coopt hustler slang and say nothing clever, except once. what the fuck?

why is this considered hipster-hop.

man all these fake ass hipsters need to step off and leave the hipster hop to the real

for real though, everyone knows that the only true genre of "hip hop that is listened to by hipsters" is dirty south...2 Live Crew, crunk, 3-6, those are the biggest touchstones for hipster djs and new era fitted-wearing white kids with big sneakers not this shit. the kids showing up to cool kids shows go home and listen to bright eyes or hold steady or some shit

if you put on "black mags" at a hipster party no one would give a shit but if you threw on bonecrusher everyone would know every word

this is a clue to usic's identity

-- J0hn D., Friday, June 13, 2008 1:33 PM (28 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

haha if this is true he has wayyyy too much time on his hands

if you put on "black mags" at a hipster party no one would give a shit but if you threw on bonecrusher everyone would know every word

-- chinchillas they can fit on gorillas, Friday, June 13, 2008 1:49 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

this is an untruth bomb

you go to really lame parties

you go to really lame parties

-- chinchillas they can fit on gorillas, Friday, June 13, 2008 2:11 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

this is also an untruth bomb

The fact that deej goes to parties and clubs at all is probably part of why his perspective on this is way different from mine.

chinchilla shut the fuck up son

the fact that i know all this is embarrassing but:

1. 'hipsters' havent paid attention to dirty south rap that isnt hugely successful for like two years now

2. 'hipsters' dont actually know rap lyrics, even to shit they've been jocking for a decade like wu tang judging from the weird lack of audience rapping @ the gza pfork show last year

if you put on "black mags" at a hipster party no one would give a shit but if you threw on bonecrusher everyone would know every word

-- chinchillas they can fit on gorillas, Friday, June 13, 2008 1:49 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

"Gold and a Pager" went off big time to my surprise last Friday night at Montmartre at about 1:30 am so they are being felt by non-rap fans around here.

was that a lame party tho?

ha yeah. it was in madison so whatever fuck that....those are the people I was reffering to about listening to whatever indie crap is cool that month, those ar ethe only fools ive ever met who are into cool kids...

also, I should reiterate that I'm thinking more of the Dj hipster/hollertronix type of crowd who WOULD know every word to a southern rap song so maybe we're just thinking of different strains and deej I'm sure your parties are great I'm sorry i haven't done shit lately so I shouldn't be talking...also not an "untruth bomb" since I'm thinking of some different people

and

chinchilla shut the fuck up son

-- usic, Friday, June 13, 2008 3:22 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

this is actually a new low for me and I'm gonna go rethink a lot of things

this seems like fake gangsta rap.

yeah but if I can just get my college boy on for a minute most real gangsta rap is also fake gangsta rap so what's the fuckin difference. you know?

the Dj hipster/hollertronix type of crowd who WOULD know every word to a southern rap song

u sound disconnected

ok sorry which williamsburg/philly party/remix crew would you like me to namedrop

all that shit is the same dude, but people in the scene at least love music and know their shit. kids who love cool kids don't love ugk, or "24's" or hypnotize camp man, we're on the same page here trust me

I actually respect these guys for that though, because they are getting it done and seeing a lot of paper for their shows and they wouldn't be able to do that if it weren't for that indie thing they've somehow managed to hop onto. and I mean indie as a distinct entity from hipster.

you guys stopped making a distinction between fashion neon party douches and sweaterwearin hold steady douches that only listen to lil wayne and cool kids.

and I mean indie as a distinct entity from hipster.

thru the veil here

yeah exactly but the hard part is that the dudes in the cool kids ARE fashion neon party douches

from some of the posting styles on this thread, I can only assume the only TRUE rap fans in the world are the ones that spend their days posting on the internet and their nights going to the sickest parties where they drop MJG mixtape tracks from 1998 and everyone nods assuringly with a quiet understanding

then you obviously missed deej's point about non-TRUE gza fans not rapping along.

'hipsters' dont actually know rap lyrics, even to shit they've been jocking for a decade like wu tang judging from the weird lack of audience rapping @ the gza pfork show last year

these are not hipsters. they are sweaterwearing hold steady douches

ugghhhh whatever wtf am i talking about this is nauseating

we should ask this guy to settle it:

http://www.myspace.com/djhipsterr

http://a244.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/118/m_1ef607decd17aedf5bf360407aaffb1b.jpg

NEVER SCARED

there is no fucking way that guy knows Bonecrusher lyrics

the difference between fake gangster rap and gangster rap is gangster rap documents a struggle and fronts a noble enterprise. i don't know and don't want to say if any of these white hipster cats got drugs, that's their business. the vice lords are getting national attention and are expressing their moral stance, which i have some disagreement with while finding it mostly noble and real in terms of the overthrow of the regime

hipsters can hold it down. especially when they grow beards and stop dressing like marks

Because everyone in this thread posts on the internet about Cool Kids and Jay Electronica, and knows who the Hold Steady and Jens Lenkman is, and is message board buddies with the dude from M0unt4in G0ats; it's some real talk that there's a pretty enormous group of people that would call every last one of us "hipsters."

Just saying.

the bosses own that stuff and call up generals who can talk real. emulators of this style carry no integrity

Not really making a point, but I've definitely been called a "hipster" before and I live in Park Slope and wear size L Melvins T-shirts

im not getting into an argument classifying types of hipsters with chinchillas they can fit on gorillas

lolz

Amateurist you are a hipster. Everyone ever on ILX apart from maybe GALE is a hipster.

It's one of those things like "middle class" -- everyone thinks they're pretty hip but not an actualy HIPSTER like THOSE people over there. Those people, in turn, think the same damn thing right up through supermodel egomaniacs, who are in thrall to the ultra-square and their ability to live normal rational lives.

But by any serious measure of "hipster," pretty much everyone here is one.

-- nabisco (nabisco), Monday, February 10, 2003 12:05 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Link

if a "hipster" know whats up, you can't discriminate against them as a group. who knows if he's just there to handle business. a lot of hipsters are on point, while some of the are posers. it ain't hard to tell and while some social groups fester cuz they aint got a discriminating leader-- don't pay attention to them. you can't hate on kids for their dress, hate them for their word if u think it's twisted and make sure you're right. the kool kids sound like some hacks, but i only heard one song.

their pretense of hijacking diplos cannon seems wack as hell because even swishahouse was just having some fun developing their language doin their drugs. you don't gotta be militant counterculture necessarily, but for sure dont hijack their identity to be an ironic selling point to idiots who dickride clipse, who i have also never heard.

even swishahouse was just having some fun developing their language doin their drugs.

so wait who got hijacked diplo or swishahouse??? cuz no one is really on some "militant counterculture" shit in these hipster hop or even the mjg mixtape-tracks-from-1998 worlds. I think it's all pretty innocent, honest stuff

until you get to the point when people "hijack their identity to be an ironic selling point" i guess, not sure who is doing that tho

if miles raymer ever reads this thread hes gonna be way confused

I'm confused because every time I read a post from chinchillas they can fit on gorillas, I only see the first three letters and think that chicago kevin somehow got involved in a serious discussion about hip-hop.

between chinchillas and usic i feel like how chicago kevin must feel reading a thread about hip hop

i cant parse a single sentence

i've actually been reading this whole thing and it reminds me of high school when i'd get stoned then go to a spanish class where i never paid attention. i can understand most of the words but can't really put them in any sort of context so nothing really makes sense.

the reason they arent militant is the reason they have no role in rap unless theyre saying compelling things, not just dicking around with a style they have no conception of the truth that lies in it, if it does in the genre theyre jacking

Next week: The Blues.

black christian liberation theology is what makes rap worth while. otherwise it has no relevance to equality. is hipsters are on point, they should rap cuz they have something to say. the kool kidz, from the video i saw, sounded like a bad minstrel show. maybe thats cuz theyre association. maybe they are real hustlers and find true metaphor in rims et al. they just strike me as houston posers at first listen. i dont know if thats theyre history or what. so i'm not trying to judge. hipster hop should be cutting edge. this is 1999

usic you're aware that many gangsta rappers never did any dirt in their whole lives right

AINT ABOUT DIRT ITS ABOUT BEING RAISED ON REAL ETHICS

MANY GANGSTERS REPRESENT LARGE ORGANISATIONS THAT HAVE THEIR SYMPATHIZERS IN THE INDUSTRY, NO TO BE NARKIN.

I DONT EVEN ARGUE THAT AS CREDIBILITY. ALL U GOTTA DO TO BE A RAPPER IS TELL THE TRUTH IN A WAY THAT EFFECTS PEOPLES SKEWED PERCEPTION OF SKEWED REALITY

THEN U CAN RISE THRU THE RANKS OF THE INDUSTRY IF THEY SEE WHAT'S REAL TOO

it is about dirt, how the hell do you know anybody's ethics otherwise - cause they talk a good line? "raised on real ethics" wtf. you might as well say "it's about being from south of chicago, west of western, and oh yeah not hyde park"

what the hell are you talking about. i said it's not about fucking "dirt" it's about the goodness of the lyricist. go read some damn aristotle and stop picking minute fragments out of sensible arguents. thats the fucking problem with white people. they ignore the large issue and pick some word they disagree with, that i didn't even say

No, it's about real ways of living that don't offend disenfranchised people

and powerful means of expressing them, often in hyperironic metaphor-- that's the mysticism of rap.

jd is aesop rock a furry or is he just fishhookin reintrucing ancient animal metaphor

keepin ir gangsta just means you're anti-american government, not a dope dealer, though dope dealers tend to be the most front-line expression of the angst of the oppression of the american system

theyre also the only ones preparing for tribal survivalism domestically

unless you have the intention of setting in place a guerilla movement you have no place rapping, unless you know how to extract society from this phase

and most ppl who do that never release their music unless its santioned by a highly legal front

there's a distint heirarchy in the world and rap has its own. new players are sanctioned in a movement towards unity that is on shakey ground cuz the individuals

then again if theres a real artist, he will be heard no matter where he rise from

theyre also the only ones preparing for tribal survivalism domestically

-- usic, Friday, June 13, 2008 9:23 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

don't forget ted nugent

wow usic ten consecutive posts & some personal shit too! let me know where to send the autograph k

"to the point about jurassic, dilated, etc etc

this stuff *feel* different to me in a way i can't quite articulate...now you could totally call out late 90s rawkus soundbombing type dudes for a lot of stupid shit they said, and a lot of annoy ways in which they were positioned in the press....all sorts of dimbulb "keeping the spirit of true hip hop alive" etc etc...buuuuuuuut:

at least dilated and shit like that felt like they were a part of hip hop...like you would have nate dogg and pharoah together or stuff like that...this stuff seems really separate from hip hop, almost if hip hop style -- old school style -- is sort of just another element of magpie kitch culture....like it feels like these dudes are just wearing a halloween costume to some indie rock party cuz everyone will think it's "soooo awesome"...

and also the audience for it just seems like the same ppl that jock whatever is on top of the blog buzz b.s. for that month, like MGMT or MIA or Daft Punk 2 years ago....

anyway, and this is probably "rockist" and stupid and everything else but it's how i feel, like none of these people really feel like they are invested in the music or even the idea of hip hop in general...like for whatever it's worth atmosphere and dilated were hard workers and seemed to genuinely love hip hop in a way

it just seems like this shit eats up a whole lot of attention and empty calories and then will just poof disappear, i mean is anyone going to be excited for the third cool kids record?

-- M@tt He1ges0n"

100% OTM, perfect analysis and conclusion. i agree.

jd is aesop rock a furry or is he just fishhookin reintrucing ancient animal metaphor

^^ hahaha is this an Aesop Rock lyric?

"jd are you the magistrate of the sundowning bootlace merlins, breaking dirtbag bread on gitmo for pitching pocket change to the insurgents?"

YEAH YOU KNOW ME

"go read some damn aristotle and stop picking minute fragments out of sensible arguents."

Remember when Shaq was called/called himself The Black Aristotle?

the BIG aristotle i think it was

Or: What keeps coming into my head here is the soundbite from Handsome Boy Modeling School (OH NO PROTO HIPSTER HOP)'s The Projects "Y'all make my head hurt."

Really? I like "Black Aristotle" better. If I wasn't white (and cowardly and untalented), that'd be my rap name, now that it's apparently open.

UGHHHHHHHHHHHH

http://videos.onsmash.com/v/66rIxasQ8MnKrfqV

wtf

chinchilla shut the fuck up son

― usic, Friday, June 13, 2008 2:22 PM (3 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

thats the fucking problem with white people. they ignore the large issue and pick some word they disagree with, that i didn't even say

― usic, Friday, June 13, 2008 9:17 PM (3 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^^ should have been ILM's board description.

UGHHHHHHHHHHHH

http://videos.onsmash.com/v/66rIxasQ8MnKrfqV

― Darryl Strawberry (The Reverend), Friday, 26 September 2008 10:25 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

This looks like a "funky" advert for a back-to-school range of stationery circa 1993.

^^^universal truth

ha i saw that today on mtv jams and was like wtf...so poor

something about that is so depressing.

Terrible video but I will kinda ride for the song. Sounds like that one Son of Bazerk record.

Bomb Squad shit with posse energy and a quicker flow. I'm alright with it.

flat-tops!

Was thinking last night--what the fuck am I doing staring at the ceiling at 5 am thinking about a shitty rap video Jesus--that the video looked like some '93 NBC Producer's idea of a Saturday morning rap show.

i don't hate this.

Chill Rob G's getting a fat check right now.

all halloween-costume-retro exponents are lame, but i'll take this over the strokes any day

okay fair enough

looks like they'vw been around a couple of years:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/19/fashion/19retro.html

My 14-year-old kid listens to Cool Kids and radio rap(likes Jeezy and Lil Wayne). Not sure where he discovered Cool Kids (he doesn't read Urb). I don't think I've played for him my native tongues era stuff (or even older Sugarhill era things). Let him learn some of it on his own (if he wants).

the beat's aiight

hoos no way is that as rad as son of bazerk!!!!!!!!!

omg i fucking hate retro kidz so much i am consumed with fucking anger

BARF

omg i fucking hate retro kidz so much i am consumed with fucking anger

^^

I've decided these motherfuckers can redeem themselves in my eyes if and only if they make an anti-apartheid anthem.

A F R I C A

Cool Kids are on the NBA Live and MLB 2K8 video games. That's where my kid found 'em.

the retro kidz don't sound that different from the young gunz

right?

just blaze makes better beats

listen to those drums! i mean its not because its retro that im wary of it. half my rap listening right now is 'retro' premier beats that could have come out any time in the last decade plus

cool kids are fun, imo.

what's cool about "retro rap" to me is that it's got the great old beats combined with the rap techniques of today - i.e. even when the rhymes aren't great they're still usually more advanced and sophisticated on a technical level than what even the greats were trying for - it's like time travel or something and it creates a weird sensation

Bonus points lost for not promising to get MIA dyking while his Russian wing makes a snuff film

i just posted this in autogoon

classic

man that was awesome

i wish hed called out more names but i guess its kinda hard when so few of these dudes are actually 'known' or have hits

He pretty much did call out every single guy who's talked about in that context though... did he mention Wale?

hilarious joint, reminds me of the first time skillz ever did a rap-up

damn, I don't even have a problem with hipster rap, but that was hilarious

ya xxp

the only omission i noticed was b.o.b

www.bigcityphiladelphia.com/

^^^cope the dude's mixtape here, really hope it's good, it's kinda time we had a new dirty white boy MC.

i thought dude was latin

http://www.jackvideos.com/bigcity/bigcity.jpg

lol at eve and bahamadia covers

"in the tradition of philly mcs eve and bahamadia..."

needs ms jade & jedi mind tricks covers

i thought dude was latin

― and what stillman (and what), Tuesday, 3 March 2009 22:03 (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Dude's surname is Esposito.

black like dom

black like dom cheadle/shout power to the people

as someone who paid money for for The Beautiful Struggle, I was lolling so hard at the Kweli line I had to rewind it like 5 times

lolled at the mos line most.

man this is so fucking awesome

http://www.tinymixtapes.com/The-Cool-Kids-Sue-Teenage-Cool

^^^necessary