Bill Hicks C or D

This wasn't even in his last and most bitter period but it was a staggeringly savage performance, it wasn't particularly funny but it was one of the most amazing things I've seen.

On CD he sounds like he is taking a few shots at some easy and well deserved targets, exposing the lies and deceit of 'THEM', but the feeling when you are in the audience was that he was including YOU in that category too, your petty hypocracies and narrowmindedness were exposed.

I'm not sure why he sounds so tame on CD now, its a shame he's dated so badly and that his followers seem to have lasted longer. I am not even sure how to defend the high praise with just the evidence of the CDs, and it seems so lame to retort that you wouldn't understand unless you saw him live. However the high praise IS deserved.

I can see how he'd be made into a hero figure because anyone who the "legalise the weed man" crew can get their hands on gets this treatment. Fuck that, that's really the tip of the iceberg. Even if the actual points he's making are a little tired now, or even if they were then, it's the way he makes them, the genuine anger, concern, you can see he really is affected by alot of the issues he discusses.

I've just finished reading his hagiography, sorry I mean biography, by Cynthia True and was actually in tears at the end when he died. How sad am I? Apparently he had the pain in his stomach for ages, but was just so busy that he didn't bother goinf to get it checked out.

Anyway, some of his stuff may sound a little dated, but it's only because so many people have stolen his ideas since. His delivery though is always incredible.

About the goatboy thing, not funny. But apparently he invented the character to piss off the Guardian reading audiences in the UK who he felt loved him too much!

I love Rant-In-E-Minor, apart from, maybe, the Marblehead Johnson tracks interwoven amongst the comedy (put in because no-one would sign them).

I agree about the goatboy thing, but it was kind of fascinating on the video I saw (a U.K. performance) to see him knowingly take it out for way longer than seemed necessary.

The first two albums are funny but seem a little unfocused. Haven't heard Arizona Bay. Rant In E-Minor is a masterpiece of bile and catharsis that manages to be uplifting at the same time.

Hicks' best moment didn't make it onto the albums (unless it's on AB) - "If anyone here is in marketing...kill yourselves."

Dud:
1) Goatboy
2) Marblehead Johnson
3) Tool fans claiming him for their own.
4) Dennis Leary gaining a shitload of fame and money for doing a diluted version of the exact same schtick.

CBS is advertising that Friday night's Letterman show will have the never-seen Hicks footage that was cut. Dunno if it's all of it or what.

Apparently it's the whole routine.

there wasn't really that much to it- just the pro-lifers routine?

i always thought his routines were better written than delivered- his habit of talking down to an audience didn't appeal to me at all in the DVD i managed to catch.

DO YOU SEE

i always thought his routines were better written than delivered-

Yes. He was clearly a smart guy, but I have a problem with any comedian who thinks they're enlightening us with the truth. That whole "I'm going to wake you sheep up to the way things really are" attitude is not my cup of tea. I'd prefer a good fart joke any day.

i miss fritz

I wonder if mark s would like Rescue Me

I've always been fascinated by the whole "Denis Leary stole Bill Hicks' act" meme. I personally think that for someone as legendary as Hicks, he hasn't dated well at all.

Yeah, I'm not sure who stole from who. But I never had any use for what Hicks I've heard/seen; just seemed like dumb stoner humor to me. And Rescue Me is one of my favorite TV shows of the decade. (Liked Leary's Lock N Load album from 1997 okay, too.)

i really wish The Job had stuck around for a few seasons, tho i hear Rescue Me is pretty similar

I like Bill Hicks well enough tho I wish he didn't blow into the microphone. His fawningest fans seem to be very hateful and misanthropic people. I do quote him, tho: "Whatchoo READIN for?" Which I say to my dog a lot.

I wish I had not known so many hateful and misanthropic stoners in my life.

Classic bits:

1. "Mummy, I woke up today and there was a lincoln log in me sock drawer." "That's the story of Jesus."
2. his mom finds his porno collection after he dies
3. "Whatchoo readin' for?" "I've never been asked that. God dangit you stumped me."
4. "What's G-12 do, Tommy?"
5. His mom on a car trip, talking incessantly about people's swelling tumors, then offering him a plum.

There's more. I can see him getting a little dated (but jeez, have you tried listening to Lenny Bruce lately?), and a lot of his stuff is based on loving/hating the south, and maybe you had to be there for a lot of that. But he's very funny.

xpost HA! Abbot beat me to the waffle waitress joke.

We spelled it the same, too.

We're through the scary door here.

I wish I had not known so many hateful and misanthropic stoners in my life.

Yeah, I don't get off on the hate, and I have a hard time imagining anyone hearing some of his bits and being all like "Right on!" One of my favorite quotes about Rant in E Minor is from AMG, who calls it "the comedy equivalent of a Bergman film." Shit is a long dark night of the soul. The first time I listened to that record, some friends and I decided to have a little listening party and dropped a half hit of acid. This was not a fun time. I swear about 2/3 through it, I could *see* the hate. Bill on a bad day can flat rattle ya.

Oh dear that sounds like a mistake.

Almost as bad as seeing "Your Friends and Neighbors" on a first date.

regrets, I've had a few

But then again, too few that involved acid.

But the routine began with a segment about a new TV show he was going to do called "Let's Hunt and Kill Billy Ray Cyrus."

Coincidentally, the segment came after a promo for that night's Craig Ferguson show, in which he was discussing Miley Cyrus.

http://blogs.courant.com/roger_catlin_tv_eye/2009/01/bill-hicks-on-letterman-finall.html

Observations:
1) Hicks's mom wipes off her hand after Letterman shakes it.
2) Bill Hicks/ Mark Wahlberg fite!

What was the name of the special he did that kept superimposing burning flags over him every time he'd talk about the New World Order and shit? That's the first one I saw (in a big theater full of misanthropic libertarian atheists who thought he was the motherfucking TRUTH) and it killed me. Interestingly, they all started to jeer and snicker at the end when he started talking honestly about the way to world peace. He had a lot of anger in him, but he seemed like he really loved at heart. God that sounds cheesy, but all his shit about life being a momentary illusion seemed like a big key to getting past the bile.

"Pick up the gun"
"I don't want no trouble mister I'm just here to pick up some gingham for my wife. I don't even know what gingham is."

once while i was really high i tried to pass off the whole mini-golf bit as something that had actually happened to me but all my friends were too stoned to follow the bit

"What's that tiny policeman doing in our mirror?"

But I never had any use for what Hicks I've heard/seen; just seemed like dumb stoner humor to me.

Who is this and wat did you do with xhuxk exxy's body?

THE ESSENTIAL COLLECTION TRACKLISTING

CD (DISC 1)

1. Fevered Egos

2. I’m Talking To The Women Here

3. My Favorite New Kid

4. Marketing & Advertising

5. Artistic Roll Call

6. Orange Drink

7. Save Willie

8. Menu?

9. A Killer Idea

10. Goodbye You Lizard Scum

11. Summertime

12. Elvis*

13. The News

14. Confession Time (Cops)

15. Please Do Not Disturb*

16. Spectravision & Housekeeping

17. Girl Of Your Dreams

18. Clam Lappers & Sonic The Hedgehog TM

19. What Is Pornography?

20. Renting Pornos & Girlfriends*

21. Name & Address Not Withheld*

22. Beelzebozo*

23. Pussywhipped Satan

24. I Love My Job

25. Audience Member / Old Folks Home Manager*

26. Worst Audience Ever

27. The F Word

28. My Parents

CD (DISC 2)

1. Drugs Have Done Good Things

2. Rockers Against Drugs Suck

3. We Live In A World

4. Drugs Have Done Good Things Part 2*

5. Ding Dong

6. Gays In The Military

7. Speaking Of Homosexuality

8. Children On Airplanes

9. Your Children Aren’t Special

10. Pro Life

11. Non-Smokers

12. Audience Member / Dental Assistant*

13. Smoking

14. Smoking Tastes Great*

15. Yul Brynner

16. Smoking In Heaven

17. Flying Saucer Tour

18. Burning Issues

19. Odd Beliefs

20. Kennedy & The Warren Commission

21. Handguns – UK vs. USA*

22. The Vision

DVD (DISC 3)

The Early Years – Stand Up

Houston, TX – 1981*

Houston, TX – 1984*

Indianapolis, IN – 1985*

Houston, TX (Part 1) – 1986*

Houston, TX (Part 2) – 1986*

The Early Years – TV Interview

The Outlaw Comics

Outlaw Comics Performance

Origins Of The Outlaw Comics*

Extras – Photo Gallery

DVD (DISC 4)

Ninja Bachelor Party

About Ninja Bachelor Party

Austin Bootleg Series

November, 1991*

December, 1992*

June, 1993*

October, 1993*

About The Austin Bootleg Series

DOWNLOAD CARD

Lo-Fi Troubadour

Original Songs* - Written & Performed by Bill Hicks

1. Introduction

2. She’s A Woman

3. Hey Mama

4. The Road Can Be Hard

5. Jazz Instrumental

6. The Moon Is Smiling

7. Turn Your Mind Over To Your Heart

8. No Music In My Soul

9. Waiting To Meet You

10. I Never Really Cried For You

11. Outro Instrumental

* PREVIOUSLY UNRELEASED

###

BILL HICKS FAMILY MEMBERS ARE AVAILABLE FOR INTERVIEWS.

oh new box set. if you like that guy.

liked his stuff more when i was nineteen

aren't you, like, 20 now?

twenty-three

Dude had some moments, but his popularity with the stoner libertarian crowd makes me crazy.

i always kind of wish he'd have set his sights a little higher when it came to picking targets. he did seem to be moving toward that at the end of his life. (if you're gonna get THAT worked up, rush limbaugh and jesse helms are probably better choices than, you know, billy ray cyrus. a lot of the early stuff really is dude ranting [without a joke in sight] for 20 minutes straight about the terrible aesthetic choices made by 14 year old girls and how george michael just isn't as real as hendrix, man.)

(like that's the big cliche about him, but then you go back and listen to some of those earlier tapes ryko put out during the first wave of reissues, and yes, it is a grown man positively furious over the existence of debbie gibson.)

jay leno was a suitable target. the leno stuff made me laugh out loud! ha!

furious and also creepily interested in the space between their legs

I loved the guy

undeniably awesome

like the whole "marketing & advertising" bit just reads as so absurd to me now. i fist pumped to it when i was 17 but now i try to imagine a middle aged man really feeling that way about the concept of marketing and it's like damn dude

Ha well he must have been like the age I am now when he came up with that marketing routine, idk how I feel about that being 'middle-aged'

he was right about a lot of stuff

I still quail at hoe totally omnipresent advertising/marketing is, it's fucking obnoxious

how

Hicks was 32 when he died - fuck "middle aged". I think it's easy to be put off by the cult of Bill and to find fault with the lamer, more dated material (the rockist rants) but the political stuff was dynamite. The combination of savagery and idealism was so potent and so brave - the idealism braver than the savagery. He believed in something far bigger than making people laugh. I saw him in a tiny college bar in 1992 and he was electric. I remember him doing this long, serious monologue about society or politics or something and the whole room went very quiet and a bit confused and then he said, "Don't worry. There'll be some dick jokes in a minute." Those unexpected gear shifts were what made him classic.

I dont mind the rockist rants either.

they were only a small part of his routine anyway. to single him out for that is a bit ridiculous since you could feasibly point out attributes of many great comedians that you don't like.

his rants on Waco, Iraq, G. Bush I, marijuana, et al are classics....

his delivery was fantastic too.

Never been able to understand what the problem with "rockism" is anyways.

You surprise me, Bill

I found his funny, if it even was rockism. I mean he insulted Michael Bolton, who here is going to stan for him?

i guess the point is - he made fun of michael bolton - wow what a challenge

Fuck a challenge, was it funny?

blasting a barrel of fish with a machine gun can be hilarious if you do it right

at his best, the ridiculous depth of bill hicks' bile and frustration was part of the joke

@just sayin: if that's yr point, might as well delete all of ILX then

that might be why one of my favorite shows of his was "I'm Sorry, Folks"

Fuck a challenge, was it funny?

― tom d: he did what he had to do now he is dead (Tom D.), Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:02 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

^exactly

I didn't realize comedians all needed to be issuing televised threats to Kim Jong-Il to be funny....

fuck this guy. the worst is dudes in their 30s whose sense of humor/jokes is still totally derived from bill hicks routines. also A+ for being all antimarketing and anticorporations but still smoking, good job putting your money where your precious ideology is.

^ quite funny

cuz cigarettes aren't like addictive or anything....

i guess the point is - he made fun of michael bolton - wow what a challenge

― just sayin, Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:00 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

to be fair, you could also say that making fun of bill hicks/bill hicks fans isn't really much of a challenge either

also A+ for being all antimarketing and anticorporations but still smoking, good job putting your money where your precious ideology is.

dude wasn't ian mackaye - mocked himself for smoking/drinking plenty

oh ok nevermind then

sorry just usually don't see people go "j'accuse hypocrite" against comedians who call themselves out on that shit like they were zack de la rocha or something

Bill Hicks making fun of Bill Hicks - wow what a challenge

"They said Koresh was a frustrated rock musician who had a messianic complex and wanted to sleep with underage girls. I don't know how to break it to you but that sounds like everyone I know in Austin. This may not be an isolated incident."

Hicks probably hated advertising because he was a victim of it due to his cig smoking.

he quit at some point (i think) (if that makes a difference to how you think of him)

I mean what next are we gonna call out comedians that tell stories that iddn't really happen?

da croupier dropping truth bombs.

I know it's important to distance yourself from dude since his diehard fans are 20,000 leagues below embarrassing, but let it be said that no one could craft a laser-guided rant like this guy, even if you didn't agree with it or thought his targets were too easy.

Also, I wish this box set was like a real, actual box set and not a two-disc best of packaged with some DVDs I'd never watch

maybe I'd be more tolerant of him if he were marketed as like a monologuist or something? because maybe he writes awesome "laser-guided rants" but that's not really something I care about when I'm watching comedy, I mainly want like well-crafted, funny jokes.

he was hilariously funny and his delivery was faultless.

oh

funny to complain about mindless fans and then say your problem with grokking his work is how he's marketed

His criticism of bad music types might still stand up if his own music wasn't unfotunately lame, I wonder who actually cares whether they include it in a box set or not.

i mean its no crime to not want bill hicks venting in your ear, but c'mon every dead person's cottage industry and cult is insufferable

Agreed, the guy was fucking hilarious.

Dont agree with this at all:

"I know it's important to distance yourself from dude since his diehard fans are 20,000 leagues below embarrassing"

xxxpost

i dunno, there are a lot of hicks wanna-bes who were set afire by his righteous bile and missed the self-aware self-deprecation

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/sidrosteele/hardcorepatriot.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2007/12/ronpaultauren_490.jpg

not everyone needs a frustrated koresh type going off about his plight, even if he's the most self-aware of the batch

"childbirth is not a miracle. childbirth is no more a miracle than you eating and a turd coming out of your ass"

huh

^ new dad, not target audience

haaa

yeah I don't know if I can handle that righteous bile at this point in my life

lol it was the first bit that came to mind.

a laser-guided rant etching itself into your brain

this shit's really more mannah for frustrated single dudes still living in their college town in the late twenties - or have been at some point in their lives

his rant on gays in the military is still appropo and classic.

"Is that a village of women and children? Quick, where's the napalm? But I don't want any gay people around while I'm killing kids, I just don't wanna see it!"

this shit's really more mannah for frustrated single dudes still living in their college town in the late twenties - or have been at some point in their lives

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:40 AM (3 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

basically "losers"

eyerolling at n/a

haha don't make me go jaymc.xls on your trolling, n/a

i will say the leno/joey lawrence interaction still makes me chuckle.

everyone has to see this! lol!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNRNCk3YwqE

sorry. its my new favorite show. heckler scene very inspiring.

went back to my hometown this weekend, pretty sure that got quoted five different times

xpost re: "you know it's always been my spiritual quest to interview a sixteen year old tony danza wanna-be..."

"yeah...no...i mean...she thinks so, i don't..."

haha don't make me go jaymc.xls on your trolling, n/a

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:42 AM (43 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I don't even know what this means? Are you threatening to like go find embarrassing aspects of my personal life on ILX because I'm making fun of Bill Hicks fans?

Re: the Louie heckler scene

I REALLY love the whole "this is the only 15 minutes of happiness we get and you ruined it" which was some REAL TALK about the nature of performing AND the oblivious of some people to their surroundings.

But since dude is breaking it down to the elements, I really would have loved a sentence on two on exactly why he or Patton or Hicks were so quick to call women "cunts" when they ruin their show, because there's def another layer going on there that he would have probably been able to explore articulately

i'll take it to the Louie thread, as scott did

"ever go to a Eric Clapton concert with your own f***ing guitar? HEY ERIC, EVER HEARD THIS ONE?"

Are you threatening to like go find embarrassing aspects of my personal life on ILX because I'm making fun of Bill Hicks fans?

didn't really mean "finding embarrassing aspects" but if you're going to type "huh" every eighth post and call dudes who stayed in their college town "losers" I could easily point out stuff you've shared on the net regarding romance and employment that should make you glad you're not sympathetic to Hicks types but also think twice about trolling them too hard.

...LOSER

I guess then the prudent thing for me to do is to bow out from this thread.

Better safe than sorry.

hey, guys, he spawned. he's doing alright. let's not put our bitterness on him.

this shit's really more mannah for frustrated single dudes still living in their college town in the late twenties - or have been at some point in their lives

― da croupier, Tuesday, August 17, 2010 9:40 AM (3 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

basically "losers"

― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:41 AM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^dumb. It's fucking stand-up comedy, not Proust. Fucking lighten up.

guess then the prudent thing for me to do is to bow out from this thread.

― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, August 17, 2010 11:05 AM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

See ya.

http://www.soflamarlins.com/images/smilies/Michael+Jackson+Jackson_popcorn.gif

okay you guys are acting more like this now:

http://lvol.com/bios/images/e262.jpg

proust was kind of a big loser though, living in the past and all

so who belongs on the "angry funny liberal middle-american loser" mount rushmore with hicks and pekar?

also, sorry i went ilx meta when really i should have said "we can't all be winners"

l. bangs

all the novelists and short story writers i'm thinking of turned out relatively successful and well-adjusted. (then again, so did pekar.)

Bangs OTM

And prob'ly a serial killer or two

we can't all be cool. OH!

http://www.accesshollywood.com/content/images/87/originals/87675_celebrity-apprentice-andrew-dice-clay-fired-up.jpg

proust was kind of a big loser though, living in the past and all

I lol'd

"fuck a hicks i'm still here motherfuckers!"

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/82743103.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA548B81B328EE242B78A6D7B5961F0EEC24227117EF1211C4EADE30A760B0D811297

so awesome...

http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/82743040.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA548ABF9E6ACA89CE3E16D7B5961F0EEC2425F27A7C2EADD1BABE30A760B0D811297

he's gotten to the point where he just smashes his own shit with a sledgehammer.

Gallagher & The Murder Junkies

you guys aren't even worthy of being gallagher's sledgehammer tech

Comedian Leo Gallagher, known professionally as just Gallagher, is famous for smashing watermelons with a sledgehammer, along with other fruit and vegetables, during his act. Gallagher, the comedian who smashes watermelons on stage, is suing his younger brother, claiming his sibling has stolen his act and violated the performer's trademark name. The dispute has led the Gallaghers' father to disown his famous son. According to a complaint filed in a Michigan court, "Ron Gallagher [the comedian's brother] and his promoters have violated Gallagher's right of publicity and trademark rights and have engaged in false advertising and unfair competition, thereby creating consumer confusion." The complaint seeks damages and

a court injunction to halt Ron Gallagher from taking his act on the road and passing himself off as Leo Gallagher. 'I'm just a pimple on your ass' "People are confused -- they think they're going to a Gallagher show," said Leo Gallagher, whose shows can be seen on television in late-night slots on the cable network Comedy Central. "He used to say to me, 'I'm just a pimple on your ass.' But that pimple's infected now, and I can't sit down. It's been five years that I've realized [my family is] trying to steal my life from me -- my dad more than my brother. He's behind the whole thing. They're ruining the Gallagher image, which is creative. My shows survive in a time when things are just thrown away." Gallagher claims he gave his brother a job being, well, Gallagher, sending him out to smaller venues as "Gallagher 2." "He was out of a job," Gallagher said. "I was following the old maxim: Instead of giving a guy fish, teach him how to fish. I had him go work in little clubs but told him to stay out of my way. Go to the places I couldn't possibly go because of the size." Problems arose, he said, when his little brother started promoting his act under the name "Ron Gallagher," which he alleges causes confusion because most people don't know his first name. "He was defrauding the audience and pretending he was me," Leo Gallagher said. "Now when I say Gallagher's coming, they don't know if it's my brother or me. Now I shaved my head. I don't even look like him. I don't look like me. It's not about hair; it's about my mind. "How can you be egotistical and not be talented?" Fulfilling a wish? Ron Gallagher claims he's just fulfilling his brother's wishes, saying he quit his job 10 years ago to help his sibling handle a busy workload. "This was his idea," Ron said. "People make mistakes, wanna change their minds. If you wanna change your mind, you should be the one to pay for it, not someone else. I have a career, a family. ... For him to come up now, that's not acceptable. He ought to be suing himself. "He's garnered a lot of publicity by suing me. If it is [a publicity stunt], it's pretty sick. I'm just a small-time comic. I'm nowhere near the caliber of entertainer he is." Dispute over 'Sledge-O-Matic' No matter what the court decides -- a decision is expected soon -- the Gallagher brood seems divided for good. The parents have taken the side of their younger son, saying what was once a family operation has been ruined by Leo Gallagher's greed. "This is a heartbreaking situation for me," Ron Gallagher said. "I still love my brother." Both sides say they have tried to settle the matter out of court, with the comedian's manager saying that Ron Gallagher refused to give up the "Sledge-O-Matic" part of his act (the comic's term for smashing melons). Ron Gallagher and his father, Leo Gallagher Sr., say the "Sledge-O-Matic" was a joint discovery by the brothers and therefore shouldn't be limited to one act. 'I feel my son has died' "They got together and got all of the food out of our icebox and smashed everything all over the place," Leo Gallagher Sr. said. "They were very close in their earlier years. We were always a close family." But now, "I feel my son [Leo] has died. He's no longer my son," the father said. For his part, Gallagher, a leper among critics but a fan favorite for more than two decades, claims melon smashing wasn't apart of his act until 1975, long after he moved away from his family's South Florida home. "I never smashed a melon in Florida," he said. "The first melon I ever smashed was on New Year's Eve 1975, never in Florida. My first appearance on the Mike Douglas show in 1972 -- I don't smash a melon, I just threatened to do it. "This is my life."

i dunno, there are a lot of hicks wanna-bes who were set afire by his righteous bile and missed the self-aware self-deprecation

no doubt. doesn't make bill's work any less funny really though. dorian OTM waaaaaay up there...

Gallagher brothers fighting, who ever would have thought it?

he should sue himself

anyone seen the 2009 doc yet? didn't get much of a release i don't think.

saw it at the film festival last year, and it is excellent.

oh great stuff. was there much new unseen concert footage in it? i think that's the one problem with the Hicks books, documentaries, CDs etc there's only so much stuff to hear before it's back round to 'that same routine' again. having said that i've been listening to his stuff since '91 so i'm sort of used to that aspect by now!

I saw the documentary tonight. I'm not a big follower of stand-up, but even so, I'm amazed that I'd never even heard of him until today. His brother was there for a Q&A after the film. Quite interesting. Looking forward, you could see Bill Maher all over the place (especially in the bit on the flag), looking backwards, George Carlin. It's not my favourite style of comedy--I'm more a fan of the Carson/Letterman style--but he clearly was important.

Hicks's brother talked at length about Letterman's mea culpa last night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBC1dKGO2_A

I think it was gracious for Letterman to invite the mom on and to air the segment. As the brother says, fifteen years after the fact, there was no external pressure from any direction to do so. Guilt, yes, but gracious nonetheless.

Dave does go way overboard at one point: "There was absolutely nothing wrong with that." Really? In the context of Hicks's bit, a new television show, I laughed at the Billy Ray Cyrus/Marky Mark stuff. But does Dave really believe he'd let a comic come on today, change the names to 2011's equivalents (Justin Bieber, Kesha, whoever), and do the same bit? That'd be even less likely today--it would basically be the same kind of thing that Palin and Beck deservedly caught hell for.

gone 20 years ago today:

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2014/02/bill_hicks_remembered_by_patton_oswalt_20_years_after_his_death_his_influence.html

Not linking to it but Patton Oswalt has a post up on his blog that has deliciously idiotic lines such as, "Luckily, Bill Hicks’ influence and legacy is more focused and active than what Bruce, Carlin, Cosby, Gregory, Pryor and Martin wrought."

I think that link from Slate is word for word Oswalt's blog. Who are the comedians with pretensions of Bill's best mate he talks of?

Won't be Denis Leary.

i really cringed at the opening -- 'lenny bruce isn't actually funny' is right down there with 'communism sounds great on paper' in the overused challops department.

The whole piece is cringeworthy, much like Patton in the past few years.

Not really bothered about Patton as a comedian, liked him in Justified and Young Adult tho.

I never thought Lenny Bruce was funny.

I am very aware of how important he was. But his stuff never made me laugh.

Cool, I feel the same way about you, PO.

I doubt that in the long run, that Patton Oswalt would be considered important by anyone. He's basically the last comedian in the fucking world who should be talking about broken barriers.

but who else will brave the uncharted depths of nerd rage

Still feel sad about Hicks. I hero worshipped the hell out of when I was a kid.

Would think Oswalts rants about SW prequels would resonate with Shakey considering how much time he's spending doing the same thing in the SW thread on ILX, but YMMV.

It's weird that Bill Hicks has gotten all the love from hipsters.

On an apples-to-apples comparison of late 80s mulleted comics who tell us the truth and died before their time, I'll take Sam Kinison any day. His bit about Ethiopia and the desert is one of the funniest things ever.

No it isn't, it's racist claptrap.

Oh come on. Don't even...

OH WHY DONT WE MOVE TO WHERE FOOD IS I GUESS BECAUSE WE ARE DUMB AFRICANS THANKS FOR SAVING US MR KINISON.

(And yes, I laughed at it at the time, because I was dumb then too.)

As opposed to now, when you're an enlightened laugh riot :)

Making fun of famine victims and victims of political violence = not funny, generally speaking.

It's weird that Bill Hicks has gotten all the love from hipsters.

On an apples-to-apples comparison of late 80s mulleted comics who tell us the truth and died before their time, I'll take Sam Kinison any day. His bit about Ethiopia and the desert is one of the funniest things ever.

― kornrulez6969, Thursday, February 27, 2014 1:40 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

congrats on the stupid post. "hipsters like bill hicks!" "racist fuck much funnier than anti-racist fuck!"

His 93 (iirc) show in Norwich is still the joint funniest stand-up I've ever seen (the other being Louis CK last year)

His pure funniness is, I feel, underrated today. People say "He spoke the truth, man" which is sometimes true, and often not. But goddamn he was funny. The whole "Do you think, if Jesus ever comes back, he ever wants to see a cross again" routine is all-time classic.

[also my response to kornules above was really douche-y, apologies for that]

You people are mischaracterizing the Sam Kinison bit. He isn't making fun of famine victims. He is making fun of their geology. And besides, who appointed you as the arbiter of what is appropriate to deem funny, anyway? You're all a bunch of sexists if you ask me.

Never mind....just saw the apology. Rewatch the bit. It's making fun of the land, not them.

And besides, who appointed you as the arbiter of what is appropriate to deem funny, anyway?

It was Vishnu The Destroyer, and I love my job.

His bro stans are offputting because they overrate the soft-target rockism the just-did-acid philosophising and, like you say, the "truth-telling", none of which would mean shit if not for the lols.

A mark of how good his jokes were is how often I see them quoted, often without attribution, eg "How do we know what weapons Iraq has?" "Er, we looked at the receipt." I remember the Shane "pick up the gun" riff being dynamite live, even though I've still never seen Shane.

Oh yeah, the Shane riff is godlike - as a performer, he was blistering.

The first two posthumous albums were so praised on their release, but I think the whole anti-Leno spiel and sheer negativity of those routines don't really represent his best work - but again appeal to a kind of rockist anti-establishment vibe that doesn't do his larger body of work justice.

That documentary from a couple of years ago was great, though.

One thing I remember - and this is something Louis CK does too - is his ability to flip between comedy and seriousness and back again with unsettling speed. It was like he could control the atmosphere in the room minute by minute.

Rob Newman's tales back in '92 of seeing him at The Wildcat in Edinburgh were amazing. He went back 4 or 5 times to see him and he just kept adding new bits, riffs night after night; whole new chunks of unscripted stuff that were better than most people's honed material. I read Brendon Burns say the same thing this week. This interview shows his innate funny-ness when totally unscripted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYPgs8aICt0

Sam Kinison was a hateful homophobic asshole who hung out with LA hair-metal bands, what's not to loathe?

Would think Oswalts rants about SW prequels would resonate with Shakey

the difference between me and Oswalt is that he is a true believer, he loves those original movies like nothing else. that, and I'll bet Patton continues to give Lucas money (I didn't bother seeing the last two prequels, somehow I bet Patton brought himself to buy the DVDs)

Bill Hicks died of cancer 25 years ago today. The Guardian ran a piece asking English comics born after Hicks' death what they thought of his act. After watching some clips, the consensus was -- you guessed it! -- negative. pic.twitter.com/jM51MpcRgu

— Dennis Perrin (@DennisThePerrin) February 26, 2019

Now, I'm not gonna shit on these kids. Their comic sensibilities were shaped in a very different time. But it's sad to see Hicks reduced to a toxic white mansplainer, lumped in with Dice Clay and Sam Kinison.

— Dennis Perrin (@DennisThePerrin) February 26, 2019

I'm sure he has some material that elevates him above Clay and Kinison, but "toxic white mansplainer" just about sums up my impression of Hicks.

Kinison is obviously Bill Hick's biggest influence.

And his material has aged terribly in that it isn't funny, and is very "trenchant"

See last year's actually trenchant Hannah Gadsby special on the "angry white male comic."

"hey, you don't like drugs? the beatles did drugs man!"

"george bush is shitty!"

oh my god, genius

English comedians are probably the least qualified group in the world to talk about comedy though tbf.

this is also true

everything i've read about Hannah Gadsby suggests that while her material has other merits, it also is not funny.

that's true also

a main theme of late George Carlin was "George Bush is shitty... and so are YOU"

I've always liked this conflicted take on Hicks:

https://www.filmfreakcentral.net/ffc/2014/03/bill-hicks-sane-man.html

No amount of claiming context ever keeps an artist relevant when the moment has gone. Obviously as individuals we all still like what we wanna like but comedians more than most artists aren't well served by insisting on their value

I had learned from preliminary research that two of his main targets were advertising and consumerism, rather disingenuous things for a professional entertainer to rail against, wouldn't you think?

Hmmm, this writer seems somewhat stupid.

I mean, to a degree all entertainers who get paid are in the whorehouse, but why would they have to like it?

I agree that the statement you quote is incredibly simplistic, but I feel like he's working his way towards a larger argument of "good" and "bad" popular entertainment: why are the "feminine" Debbie Gibson and George Michael bad and "real men" like Jimi Hendrix and the Rolling Stones good? The reviewer's discussion of Hicks' misogyny basically reveals his rants against consumerism as bullshit.

anyone who says "mansplainer" with a straight face is a fucking idiot

I don't know if that was aimed at me, but I was just quoting Perrin's tweet. It's not the term I would have employed: "toxic white asshole" is more accurate, to me.

(also, I attended an education seminar a few years back in which "mansplaining" was discussed as an issue, and it took me a few minutes to figure out that the moderator wasn't joking)

i believe everyone uses the word with waggling eyebrows now

but thanks for your language policing, very privilege-neutralizing

God I am so over this century, kill me

I'm amazed anyone can even attempt comedy in this clenched-butthole cultural moment

theres still a huge audience for stuff that isn't woke.

like look at where bill burr is playing shows, look at how much cumtown is making on patreon per month, howard stern still has a career, dave chapelle is one of the biggest comedians on the planet and is really into talking about "trannies" in his sets, etc.

I can't imagine listening to Hicks again, but there was something cathartic about hearing his old political routines in the post-9/11-Iraq invasion era.

As utterly cheesy as it is, I can't imagine Kinison/Clay or even a Burr/Stanhope doing anything remotely as humane as his "it's just a ride" bit.

I'm amazed anyone can even attempt comedy in this clenched-butthole cultural moment

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius)

"nancy" is pretty funny

There's a lot of great comedy out there right now. The whole "snowflakes" argument, re: stand-up at least, is generally the domain of the Bill Maher/Adam Carolla types who are bitter that they're not what's in anymore.

Keep culture wars out of comedy, say fans of bill hicks

read that guardian article the other day and thought the responses were predictable (not bad, just predictable). i relistened to all of hicks's stuff last year and thought the music stuff had aged badly, but i dunno, there was still a lot of funny material, and his timing was always sharp. to a certain extent you're going to run into offensive, dated material if you listen to any classic comedy -- i mean, there's sexist stuff in bob newhart's routines, or the marx brothers' movies. of course no one has to seek out any of that stuff if they don't want to, but not everyone is content to "get their funny fix from instagram." (and yes that's an actual quote from the article, lol.)

tbh, this part stuck with me more than the more obvious criticisms:

It’s not just the rock’n’roll stylings that seem quaint. It’s the things that got Hicks wound up: advertising, marketing, capitalism, and how they captured and sullied all things good. A generation later, advertising is the air we breathe, our selves are our product. It’s harder – for comedians and everyone else – to imagine how life could ever be otherwise. Bob seems to be understating things when she says: “Selling out has evolved in meaning.”

the hicks stuff that resonates with me most is probably also his most dated material: the anti-marketing/branding stuff. the amount of branding/self-promo that goes on basically everywhere now makes me queasy, and it's already hard to imagine life without it. i mean, someone who does a hicks-esque rant on a twitter thread now is probably trying to sell you their book.

well but we all know that's why modern life is rubbish

That very deliberate conflation of hating capitalist reality with calling out the mentality of privilege is the total MO of shitty defensive bigotry in 2019

The best bits of Hicks (anti-advertising, anti-nationist, pro-psychedelics) are out of tune with the zeitgeist of 2019, the worst bits (reactionary prejudice, violence, contempt, conspiracy theories) sound like standard kit for the iconoclastic libertarian assholes who seem to be all over the internet. Conclusion: 2019 not that great after all.

Solid material but his delivery was not as strong as it could have been. It is my firm opinion that this is why Denis Leary took his shtick (quite literally in a few cases) and parlayed it into much more success than Hicks ever had. It pains me to admit this because Leary is a Masshole tool, but there it is.

D Leary's most trenchant observation was that peak-beauty DiCaprio looked like a hot 14-yo girl

anyway, i was barely aware of Hicks while he was alive, and most of what i know of him came from when i reviewed the documentary 8 years ago:

https://www.slantmagazine.com/film/american-the-bill-hicks-story-2/

(ie don't ask me to defend my opinions, bcz i'd forgotten them)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuQC6gvWEf8

That's the only Bill Hicks thing I know other than Chicks Dig Jerks and no one has been talking about it on this thread, so.

I had never heard of him but he had an appearance on a local cable show broadcast in New Jersey called Live From Rascals, which was a nearby comedy club. It was absolutely hysterical in 1988, but he sort of believed his own hype and became a dress in leather truth teller, which is never funny.

Anyway here is the clip from the Rascals show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGl88pvfX9c

why are the "feminine" Debbie Gibson and George Michael bad and "real men" like Jimi Hendrix and the Rolling Stones good?

a routine i hated even when i loooooved hicks

Sorry, I guess I was a 16 year old rockist

i was too! but iirc the "joke" is that jimi hendrix is raping debbie gibson with his guitar dick, it's a bad joke

i mean i know it has been established that hicks did not trade in jokes but he was capable of being funny

i should prob revisit him before really assessing the quality of his jokes. i'm guessing i would prob still enjoy the incredibly vivid jay leno suicide by uzi bit

I have a low threshold for the tellin'-it-like-it-is comics of the 80s/90s. Except for Carlin, of course, but that's not really fair because he was the best stand-up ever and could do about 10 other things (other than the truth-teller guise) better than anyone else. And his "Americans suck" bits at least had a bit of charm about them.

I recall that Lenny Bruce's stuff when i was a kid was considered dated as all hell and in the UK at least he was rarely if ever referenced by the new comedians, you really could not get hold of his stuff anywhere either, it just seemed to have vanished. This is just 'a thing' that happens to comedy? It's interesting how Louie is being called out for his 'jokes' about school shootings which were obviously not funny at all but old fans have said it's no different to his early stuff, yet there's a million things in say Eminem lyrics that could be similarly criticised which.. aren't being. Yet. Or not in Guardian articles or whatever.

Tbf nobody gives a shit about Eminem in 2019

Tbf nobody gives a shit about Eminem in 2019

There are certain ILXors who care very, very deeply about Eminem and have in fact gone so far as to write up detailed rankings of his entire catalog in the past week.

Whiney cares about Eminem in 2019 iirc

Chart stats for Eminem's last album from 2018 FYI:

Australian Albums 1
Austrian Albums 1
Belgian Albums 1
Canadian Albums 1
Czech Albums 1
Danish Albums 1
Dutch Albums 1
Finnish Albums 1
French Albums 3
German Albums 2
Greek Albums 3
Irish Albums 1
Italian Albums 1
New Zealand Albums 1
Norwegian Albums 1
Scottish Albums 1
Swedish Albums 1
Swiss Albums 1
UK Albums 1
US Billboard 200 1
US Top R&B/Hip-Hop 1

May god go with him and his loyal fans

99% of occasions where "dated" is used require the hard application of a sock o' manure to the offender

I recall that Lenny Bruce's stuff when i was a kid was considered dated as all hell and in the UK at least he was rarely if ever referenced by the new comedians, you really could not get hold of his stuff anywhere either, it just seemed to have vanished. This is just 'a thing' that happens to comedy? It's interesting how Louie is being called out for his 'jokes' about school shootings which were obviously not funny at all but old fans have said it's no different to his early stuff, yet there's a million things in say Eminem lyrics that could be similarly criticised which.. aren't being. Yet. Or not in Guardian articles or whatever.

― piscesx, Thursday, February 28, 2019 6:40 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

louis' material is attracting greater scrutiny because he's now an outed sex criminal. he used to be able to get away with edge-lord comedy because people's idea of him was that he was a nice, liberal (plenty of material paying lip-service to the existence of misogyny, inequality in his oeuvre) guy, most no longer think that, so the, very similar, material he now comes out with is demonized.

when eminem did that terrible trump rap there were articles online about how problematic eminem is and how that doesn't sit well with a makeover as a "resistance" guy

been thinking a lot about this guy lately. what was his fucking problem

pancreas problems iirc

dry squeegeed his third eye too hard

This is completely a recycled Bill Hicks bit.

World is 4000 years old. Dinosaurs were planted by god to confuse us

— 𝔊𝔯𝔦𝔪𝔢𝔰 (@Grimezsz) September 13, 2022

Except for Carlin, of course, but that's not really fair because he was the best stand-up ever and could do about 10 other things (other than the truth-teller guise) better than anyone else.

Hicks >>> Carlin

Hicks never made “jokes” justifying wiping out endangered species.

I will poll my list of 50 worst Bill Hicks bits one day, don't think he made a joke about wiping out an endangered species but pretty sure most of them are worse than that.

Yeah but he was brave enough to speak up about how contemptible a woman is for working in a restaurant

Hicks never made “jokes” justifying wiping out endangered species. dude just whined a lot

Carlin asked where the blue food was while coked up and it's on tape

?

Admittedly Hicks deliver was usually strident but what I’ve seen of Carlin is even more overbearing.

I don’t remember the “reader” bit being misogynist, it was mostly just pointing out the anti-intellectual strain of the American heartland, especially the South, and the butt of the joke happened to be female.

I’m sure he did have some truly awful bits but again nothing I recall equivalent to “extinction lol”. Carlin is also the leading proponent of “rape is funny” iirc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l04dn8Msm-Y

His funniest bits are trying to channel Richard Pryor. I know I know, Kinnison > Hicks too, given.

Kinnison is the least funny human to ever live

he’s definitely funnier than me

ymmv wrt misogyny (helps if you ignore a shitload of evidence from his other routines) but the classism of “lol imagine working as a waitress what scum” is I think p indisputable

I was just parroting the lore on that one tbh. I usually get Kinnison and the Screaming Bob guy mixed up.

(Xpost sorry)

also I cannot forgive the kind of prick who would describe Thatcher's Britain or even post-Thatcher Britain as a "socialist nightmare".

ILX folks really take incidental asides from an extended riff personally. That was somewhere near this rant wasn’t it?

I was in Australia, and the Australians had a big contingency at the Branch Davidian compound, and I’m from Texas so they were very curious. They were asking me all about it, you know. ‘Oh, this guy’s so weird, in’t he? This guy Koresh is so weird.’ And I was thinking, well, wait a minute. Frustrated rock musician with a messianic complex, armed to the teeth, and trying to fuck everything that moves. I don’t know how to tell you this: sounds like every one of my friends in Austin. I don’t know if this is gonna be an isolated incident.

(I just read the script, didn’t listen, but I’m guessing his take on an Aussie accent is atrocious. Y’all can go ahead and chalk another demerit on the list for that one too.)

Ok I guess “demerit” is specifically American lingo too. Fuck me.

been thinking a lot about this guy lately. what was his fucking problem

― frogbs

i don't know but whatever it is a lot of cis white dudes seem to have similar problems

carlin holds up surprisingly well imo, one of these days i might do a proper rewatch of "you are all diseased". he's doing a bit... this is something released in 2000 where he's complaining about airport security. and i'm thinking, "oh no...", but he turns it into, hey, you know what the real shitty thing about airport security is? it's systemically racist. (except he's funny when he says it because he's a comedian.) he starts out saying some kind of cringey white guy edgelord shit but he keeps twisting it _against_ white guy edgelords.

even when he says stupid shit, like complaining about vaccines (which is also something he does in that special), you're never quite _sure_ if he means it because it's like... wait, he's not _actually_ suggesting that kids should swim in raw sewage because it will "toughen them up", is he? if hicks did that routine i wouldn't question for a second that he genuinely meant it.