"Indie Adult Contemporary"

apprehension I felt at also being there to buy wilco: substantial

I've heard Yellow all the way through, just once though, BTW, and I still didn't like it.

If I were anywhere listening to an album on a cold winter night, I think I'd be more concerned about getting back inside and staying warm.

i regularly get choked up at my local savacentre, where they routinely pump some of the most heart-breaking AOR over the stereo system, usually the good stuff too...

Haven't heard the albums since the singles were fucking shit. And what are you saying here? That there must be an environment which you have to listen to this so that it becomes a great record.

In fact that's why I hate these bands: they try to be 'moving' or 'emotional'. They so obviously squeeze those triggers that it leaves a bad taste. In the end they end up being as heartless as the worst chart pop and in the end it ends up being a triumph of marketing, that's all.

I don't get the AOR comparison at all.

oh, speaking of IAC: Luna, to the fucking bone.

There was actually a Slate piece a few weeks ago that praised them on this account. Sort of an "as we've grown older and our lives have changed, Luna has been there for us" piece from a middle-aged man. As with others here, though, I don't see very much wrong with this (the piece, however, was not so good).

The second album, yes. But that was almost a decade ago.

A friend of mine was describing his sister to me. "She likes Wilco and Lambchop and that sort of stuff - y'know, indie adult contemporary."

And speaking of Wilco! And much more besides, nabisco OTM etc.

http://nymag.com/arts/popmusic/features/wilco-feist-2011-10/

roxy mehsic

NPR's All Songs Considered and Nic Harcourt are part of this

That's for sure.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/mar/01/soprano-renee-fleming-indie-makeover

And as noted by Ann Powers on Twitter just now, Nabisco/Carl Wilson mindmeld:

http://www.torontostandard.com/culture-design/feist-how-come-she-never-goes-there

Sufjan Stevens Illinois

x-post- ILXer Alfred S quoted in Carl Wilson piece

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/mar/01/soprano-renee-fleming-indie-makeover

I will never not be angry abt this btw

renee fleming sings songs by a bunch of guys who couldn't pick her out of a police lineup whereas I would literally pay out of my own pocket to hear her rock one of my jams

"Indie Adult Contemporary" = James Blake.

xp: I don't know dude, her phrasing is very reminiscent of Antony

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJC8LB_9mG0&feature=related

ok in fairness Antony probably is into RF & Leonard Cohen gets a pass

the rest of those fuckers are gonna get the stinkeye from me if I ever see em

"indie adult contemporary" and/or "adult alternative" and/or "adult contemporary" and/or "singers and songwriters" and/or "folk-rock/pop" and/or "soft rock" and/or "soft AC" and/or "hot AC" and/or "mainstream AC"... they're all just like any other genre - hit or miss.

you can't judge a genre by one band alone and vice versa

how many bands do I have to hear before I can judge a genre

captain lorax knows his indie adult contemporary coffeeshop music dont doubt him

yeah, I'm all over the coffee shop music suggestion threads

At least where I live, indie coffeeshop music <> Starbucks music (yes, they really do have their own record label)

Generation X gets a little bit older, agonizes about it, Part XXXVI in a series.

from that fleming article:

Of course, Fleming isn't exactly covering the Misfits.

DEALBREAKER

fyi Lorax all the indie adcon songwriters are in on the wtc coverup, you have to sign on before they play you in starbucks

Salon responds.

i think it's weird to me that so many people are latching on to this because it's not really that new/interesting of a concept. i liked nitsuh's article but it had more to do with his usual great, clear writing than the idea.

Yeah. Music critics are the only ones ones obsessed with genre.

still think it's weird people think indie is a genre

don't see where people are latching on to it, either

90% of the comments on the NPR Facebook feed, were a variation on "indie is not a genre/who cares what you the music you listen to is called"

said it before i'll say it again, the only people who really give a shit about genre are music writers

i seriously couldn't make heads or tails of the article either--but that's probably my fault

the only people who really give a shit about genre are music writers

this is not true tbh

Yeah, the Salon article is not great. I don't think Nitsuh is calling Feist or Radiohead or Wilco "bad"; just established, and unsurprising.

The Salon article's defensiveness puzzled me, especially when, according to Deusner, Bon Iver create interesting variants on A/C tropes and arrangements; it circles back on itself.

this is not true tbh

the only people who really give a shit about obsess over genre are music writers

nitsuh on twitter: "I'm glad people are responding to my Wilco article, but I wish fewer of them were attributing me with opinions I don't hold."

Personally, I'm sick of these old farts like Panda Bear and Grizzly Bear making boring music for boring yuppies while they drive around in their Volvos. Barf out people!

Today, us kids are into bands named after wolves, not bears.

I thought today's kids were into bands named after summer leisure activities and 1980s kitsch

I thought today's kids were into bands named after summer leisure activities and 1980s kitsch

I misread the following from the toronto link as such:

Feist ... an art-pop star who can sell out venues across the western world and even have a CAMELTOE in the new Muppets movie

LOOOOOOOL

that's adult contemporary

I'm not going to lie when I say that I would love to hear a 20 minute extended cut of 'Fernando' (with no techno)

The Wisconsin-born indie folk singer embraces AutoTune and even worked with Kanye West, but his most controversial act was adding a Korg M1 keyboard to “Beth/Rest,” the final track on his second album, “Bon Iver, Bon Iver.” Although it adds a subtle anthemic quality to the song, the waterdrop sound of that keyboard is more closely associated with the likes of Bruce Hornsby and Steve Winwood than with indie-folk. Many listeners wrote it off as cheesy or ironic, but Vernon has repeatedly asserted his love of the instrument and the genre with which it has been linked.

How did Steve Winwood record "Valerie" without Pro Tools and Nels Cline?

I finally sat through Radiohead's Kid A the other day and one of the two impressions that I was left with was that Thom Yorke cribbed the vocal melody for one of the songs from "Eternal Flame".

what a dick

No, I mean, I'm sure Susanna Hoffs would be cool with it. She'd probably be like "Go ahead, it's yours. I've made my money off it!" But it is probably the most adult contemporary song in the world.

I was just kidding I have never knowingly heard Kid A

It took me 10 years! I made myself do it because I heard yet another glowing recommendation from someone whose musical taste usually gibes with mine.

Now if adult contemporary indie is supposed to be the indie equivalent of Celine Dion, then I would strongly argue that there is no such thing.

However, there's more to adult contemporary than Celine Dion. Celine Dion, frankly, represents bad adult contemporary whereas ABBA would occasionally make some fantastically great adult contemporary.

So, OK then. Bad indie adult contemporary would be something rather tuneless like Starsailor or Stereophonics, or something American and even worse like Dave Matthews Band, Nickelback, Hootie & The Blowfish or Creed. This whereas Coldplay, Travis, and also Wilco, represents really good indie adult contemporary.

"Adult contemporary" is not really a genre, it's a radio format. It can include pretty much anything from the Beatles to the Black Eyed Peas. I get what people are trying to say, but I think it would be simpler just to call something "boring".

The first thing that I thought of when I heard the phrase "indie adult contemporary" was Coldplay.

Except Coldplay has never been indie, unless you're using the British definition.

Well I am British, so naturally I would use the British definition.

Good luck with that.

as far as i can tell the british "is your rock band indie?" goes like this:

A) Are you in Korn?

B) Are you a member of Double Trouble (SRV RIP)?

If you answered "No" to both these questions, congratulations - you are indie!

Not quite.

Coldplay are such the epitome of the 'adult alternative' radio format that i feel like they get grandfathered into any related tag like 'indie adult contemporary'

Not quite.

― Turrican, Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:48 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

that's a cold shot @ srv bro

fabulous thunderbirds are pretty indie though

oh good Geir's found this thread.

i wish kenny wayne shepherd would join noel gallagher's high flying birds

god this thread is just killing my decision to enact upon this wilco ticket pre-sale

A+ jaymc!

its funny how the salon guy is mad that nabisco called his fav bands adult contemporary

In that regard, the most divisive song of the year isn’t by Fucked Up or Danish destructo-punks Iceage, who have both released excellent albums this year; nor is it by Tyler, the Creator, the California rapper whose much-discussed sick jokes sound like empty provocations. Instead, it’s by Bon Iver, whom Abebe includes among his list of “meh” and “adult contemporary” acts.

!!!!!!

ntabebe ንፁህ አበበ Nitsuh Abebe
(OK fine, that previous tweet was my nice way of saying "I can't believe Stephen Deusner totally lied about me [sobs with outrage, etc]")
16 hours ago

ntabebe ንፁህ አበበ Nitsuh Abebe
I'm glad people are responding to my Wilco article, but I wish fewer of them were attributing me with opinions I don't hold.
17 hours ago

ntabebe ንፁህ አበበ Nitsuh Abebe
@Steven_Hyden The piece contained no value judgments about any such thing, which is why Deusner had to fabricate quotes to disagree with.
14 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

this would be so a+ trolling if only he were trolling

Coldplay are such the epitome of the 'adult alternative' radio format that i feel like they get grandfathered into any related tag like 'indie adult contemporary'

I still reckon "adult alternative" is a better name than "adult contemporary indie". The "adult alternative" format is very much a "I despise the manufactured stuff that currently dominates the mainstream singles charts, but I have grown out of my pubescent rebellion phase by now and feel too old to go for the most "rebellious" and noisy alternative music, so please give me stuff like Coldplay instead".

its funny how the salon guy is mad that nabisco called his fav bands adult contemporary

― ice cr?m, Friday, October 28, 2011 1:31 PM (37

^^^.This. While Deusner sometimes writes about non-rock bands, he's busy writing for multiple outlets about the indie rock bands in question.

Geir may even have a point though regarding Dave Mathews and Creed being more adult contemporary (but there's no indie cred aspect there)

In Deusner's very slight defense, at least he doesn't bury the lede and puts it right there in the first two sentences that he's pissed about his bands being called "adult contemporary".

more like "child contemporary"

There might be an interesting side-issue/sociological curiosity here about how the word "adult" became a mild pejorative.

^^^^

"adult" has always been pejorative from the rock and roll perspective, it's youth music

Sure, "adult" coming out of the mouth of a 17-year-old as pejorative makes sense. But we're talking about people in their 30s and 40s.

who HATE THEMSELVES *shredding guitar solo*

If an obnoxous name is real rebellion, give me Neko Case any day.

Neko 'philia' Case?

okay I can't believe I'm asking this but which Kid A song steals from "Eternal Flame"

No idea. It was on the second half of the album. To the tune of "Say my name/Sun shines through the rain".

"Optimistic"! Okay, I can hear that now; I was trying to find something that cribbed the verses.

And after giving it some thought last night, that section of melody also appears in "Can't Find My Way Home" by Blind Faith. But I'll give Radiohead the benefit of the doubt that they stan for Susanna Hoffs over Eric Clapton.

... or maybe recognize that ppl in popular music only come up with so many distinct melodies and people use the same phrases all of the time?

Yes, but that's not as fun.

eternal flame is a great song steal from the best imo

All the above said:

There might be an interesting side-issue/sociological curiosity here about how the word "adult" became a mild pejorative.

Among other reasons (says the forty old): in this context it's presumption that one's listening, as with one's life experiences in general, turns 'conservative,' with all its connotations -- so with music, a presumption that you're either locked into nostalgia, following along with performers who haven't challenged themselves/their audiences in years or otherwise supposedly yearning for music that speaks to 'adult' concerns, however phrased/considered.

The first two I'll merrily confess to, as I wait patiently for a new Cure album and all. The third is the one that sticks in my craw as such; I am much more sympathetic to hearing wordless hour-long electronic experiments these days than I am, say, Mr. Tweedy continuing along his path that has provided me consistent boredom for twenty fucking years now, whenever I bother to listen in. Then again, I was always happy with such experiments twenty years back, and I reacted to things like Yet Another Crosby, Stills and Nash Reunion then as I do to Wilco (and perhaps more appropriately Fleet Foxes, who are of course younger than me and which raises its own issue in turn) now. So very arguably that IS my own conservatism, but if that kind of musical approach doesn't speak to me regardless of the trappings and the time then fuck worrying about it, and fuck any assumption that because I'm the age I am I should be listening to it. Sing around the campfire all you damn well please, my dreams are elsewhere.

"Optimistic"! Okay, I can hear that now; I was trying to find something that cribbed the verses.

― he carried yellow flowers (DJP), Friday, October 28, 2011 3:16 PM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark

In 'Optimstic', just after the choruses when Thom goes "oh wo-oh wo-oh", it always reminds me of 'Senza Una Donna' by Zucchero & Paul Young(!!)

I'm pretty sure I've heard "Friday I'm In Love" on adult contemporary stations.

I heard Friday I'm in Love at a gas station like a month ago.

I, Ned (ie adult contemporary)

Can I have my own 13 part BBC drama?

wow, i started this thread ten years ago! insane!

now i am officially in the adult contemporary demographic

someone hand me my walker

heard "close to you" at the supermarket this week. what does it mean!?
i dunno, i like wilco, i like feist. if you're into a wide variety of music, you're not going to think they're breaking any new ground, but oh well! for some people, they really do sound adventurous/different!
this is just people hearing a band and thinking dude my mom would probably like this. what you do with that info is up to you!

Then there's me, who thought my mom would like Kraftwerk, In the Nursery and Aphex Twin. (And she did!)

I don't really get what sounds more "adventurous" about The Cure than Wilco -- if anything I think the former is just better at writing catchy hooks.

Plus I thought ILM was all about realizing that Steely Dan is the most subversive band of all and then getting some sort of merit badge at a secret ceremony.

Well, Robert Smith believes in covering his ugliness with makeup.

I just don't actually believe the people who listen to Wilco/Feist/etc. believe they are listening to "cutting edge rock" or anything like that. Wilco's fanbase from my attendance at Wilcofest is mostly "cool dads" and bros with some oldsters thrown in. Not a lot of hipster/indie types. And they are under no illusions, most of them seem well-versed in classic rock idioms and like Tweedy's take on those themes.

The thing that is new in this discussion is that, as far as "indie adult contemporary" goes it's a rather accidental grouping of a lot of disparate bands that seemed to arrive, commercially, at the same time. Wilco is the oldest, but also Modest Mouse, Death Cab for Cutie and to a more modest extent Built To Spill transitioned from independent to major labels and enjoyed a huge bump in popularity. The next wave or generation would be bands like Arcade Fire and Vampire Weekend that seemed to arrive as fully-formed "indie sensations," albeit still on nominally indie labels. The new thing is fully-formed "indie bands" that are explicitly a product of the major label system and for whom "indie" is 100% a brand, a signifier divorced of any content. This is the conversation around bands like Foster The People and artist like Lana Del Ray.

I guess to the extent that you can still squeeze any meaning out of the "indie" label, inasmuch as it's now mainly a bunch of marketing people's approximation of what it thinks a certain demographic (mostly affluent, mostly white, post-college thru 40s vaguely left-leaning) wants to think about itself, you could define indie as being like a synthesis of 50s conservatism and 60s/70s radicalism, like "I'll participate in the system and benefit from it, but in my own independent, creative, non-subservient way." It's not oppositional, and it's very "long tail" in nature -- expanded choice within capitalism. So you get a lot of different disparate bands with different styles and levels of intensity, but maybe they have that in common. It feels a little different than what indie meant to me 10-15 years ago, when it still felt like there was a record industry to fight, although even at that time it would have described a bunch of completely disparate bands with unrelated styles.

I also think it's a bit of a myth that most young people are usually truly oppositional, and as such, it's fairly possible for youth music (especially among the college set) and 'adult contemporary' to overlap. Even in the 60s college kids listened to lots of non-threatening folk that probably only arch conservatives would have a problem with.

I just don't actually believe the people who listen to Wilco/Feist/etc. believe they are listening to "cutting edge rock" or anything like that.
i don't know, isn't this the reason wilco gets trotted out as "boring" in these kinds of articles? like, some critics praised them to the high heavens for being "daring" or "cutting edge" circa yankee hotel foxtrot, but people who listen to more out there music get butthurt and say, no that's not daring that's boring!

I don't know if the Wilco/Feist fans think that they're listening to "cutting edge rock" -- but I do think they might feel smart and hip and discerning for being into music that's generally critically acclaimed and not played on the radio.

Good point. This music is marketed as being for "discerning" listeners - a cut above the mainstream pablum. That's why the Adult Contemporary jibe stings.

japery

^another awesome word

imagine i wrote it with a virtual crayon

meanwhile the Wilco fans jaymc identifies are probably enjoying "Valerie" too.

how dare they

Rock music has been ageist since the 50s. What seems pathetic now is how music writers in their 50s and 60s are still mocking music which largely appeals to adults.

I think it's pathetic to whine about something being labeled "indie adult contemporary" as if it's the first time any music you like had been labeled "adult".

Music critics suck in general. Music taste is an inherent bias no matter how you dress up your review. I don't feel there's much bias in this way for video game and movie critics but I also agree with them sometimes (and taste has less of a role in movie/video game reviews)

Maybe it seems like taste has less of a role in movie and video game reviews because they aren't as pure of art as music and the critic taste if more shared with that kind of stuff

There's more objective reasons to like movies/video games than there is objective reasons to like the sound of something...

videogames reviews are iffy, they tend to discuss features of things less so than almost any artistic elements of the work.. music is also so one-dimensional as far as "things" go, with videogames - or movies, too - taking into factor picture, soundtrack, acting, gameplay mechanics or effectiveness of script, etc, etc. it's hard not to judge music on sole basis of taste when it just feels menial to like it on basis of kickin' guitar solos

Reading about someone's taste in music is sucky when their taste sucks. Music critics almost always have sucky taste

Most music critics revel in the fact that their taste is popular with their audience. Good for you! Your taste is agreeable with the group you associate with. That's nothing to write home about, let alone publish in your crappy online blog/zine unless you actually get off writing that review and feeling connected with your same taste confidants

Usually I'll listen to an album and decide if I like it. Then if I like it a lot I'll check Pitchfork for the odd chance I might once agree with them. The first thing I check is the score. That's enough for me to tell if I think that reviewer sucks.

There is no "objective" anything when it comes to opinions.

Saying Skrim has better graphics than Oblivion is a conclusion that will be shared by just about everyone. "Better graphics" is subjective but because of the practically universal acceptance of this conclusion, reviewers can easily treat "better graphics" as an objective fact despite its' subjective origin

Catch my drift now? I'll spruce up my original quote a little bit:

There's more "objective" reasons to like movies/video games than there are "objective" reasons to like music

The new Wilco album is nice, but having the epic, mildly experimental opener is a bit of a misdirection. The rest is full of nice songs in a classic rock idiom, with the Kotche and Cline bringing a few weird touches. Live however, they were a lot more energetic, prompting a fusty reviewer for our local paper to complain of 'white noise and atonal widdling'. A lazy description of the wig-outs that ended each song. It was hardly Merzbow, but clearly to some, this is still pretty far out. Wilco were much closer to Sonic Youth on the night than Fleet Foxes. But then plenty of indie adults have grown up with a bit of noise-rock, so they probably quite enjoy a few wig outs in their adult contemporary. So I guess that's one of the questions - how much noise or artful weirdness is too much for indie adult contemporary?

"Sing around the campfire all you damn well please, my dreams are elsewhere."

fave bright eyes song, by the way.

one of cyrus's classmates came in the store last week with his dad and i had never met the dad and he seemed really uncomfortable and he was trying to make music talk but you could tell that he was intimidated in some weird way and he mentioned andrew bird and i didn't know what to say to that. i was polite. i tried to put him at ease. he bought a dictionary.

i guess what i'm trying to say is i'm REALLY nice to people who talk to me about stuff like wilco and other stuff that i ignore. people my age. i'm even really nice to the guy i know who says he doesn't listen to any new music because none of it is any good...except for beck. in real life, anyway. music writers and magazines that champion bland goop i will attack all day.

oh but obviously what i'm really really trying to say is nabisco on the money. its hard to get too worked up about fleet foxes or whoever. and i wish i had thought of that line about coldplay existing so that even the most casual music fans can feel superior to something. cuz that was funny.

Bon Iver sounds like bland goop to me. I think Wilco's 'Jesus Etc.' is perfection. I don't think I can attack music writers and magazines for championing bland goop when that stuff is so subjective. Mostly I keep my "____ sucks" attacks to myself. Being a persistent antihero for a band is just as bad as championing them all day

Video games cannot be judged on the same criteria as other art forms

Video games cannot be judged on the same criteria as other art forms

video games can not be judged *shoots u w/plasma cannon*

what would be an adult contemporary video game? one where you're a dad trying to drop your kid off at school?

Guitar Hero: Train

would love to shred the solo on "drops of jupiter"

adults are the worst

especially dads

otm

After reading a review in which someone praises a painting (or other pure visual art form) you might pick up a new interesting perspective. Yet after reading a review about why someone praises an album, you won't have many reasons to change your perspective other than the dumb reason of _____ critic likes it so is must be good. (One exception is when I found out what I was listening to with Colin Stetson - a totally vaild reason for me to enjoy that album more)

trashing music critics on this music critic message board is the best pastime and i support you

Video games cannot be judged on the same criteria as other art forms

― mylo & xylotis (some dude), Saturday, October 29, 2011 12:50 PM (7 hours ago) Bookmark

Video games are an art form if you take into the account the hard work it takes to create a great game like Bioshock or Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.

i was just discrediting m@tt's career for a laugh

I don't understand why dads get so slammed for having shitty taste in music. In my experience moms are just as bad if not worse. What would "mom rock" be?

Wild Flag

mums dont rock

Train, Nickelback, late-model Bon Jovi, Five for Fighting, Sara Bareilles, Colbie Cailla, Sugarland t = "mom rock"

Feel like this is relevant -- an indie adult contempo station just launched in my neck of the woods!

http://www.openaircpr.org/

Top 30 Oct 24-30

1. Wilco
2. Feist
3. Deer Tick
4. Clap Your Hands Say Yeah
5. Peter Wolf Crier
6. Beirut
7. Gauntlet Hair
8. Givers
9. Girls
10. St. Vincent

that is seriously the most enervating playlist I've ever seen.

"We'd like to welcome you to JagjagwaurCentral, where rock is...rock!"

It's so...beige.

"In studio tonight, a round table discussion about how rock and roll was invented by the Band."

lol, i know what you mean, but what the hell, it's not like the radio out here is really groundbreaking. relatively speaking that's an awesome group of artists!
judging from the playlists, there's some cool stuff being played, random fairport convention songs, etc.

7. Gauntlet Hair

what the bloody hell is this

8. Middle Toe Hair

Gauntlet Hair is a more local-y band here in Denver. They're like Denver's own Animal Collective I'm told. Saints preserve us.

I wibbled about them here. A band for whom elements are better than songs at this point.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510%2Buum6ztL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I just went to The Current's website to see what their current playlist was and saw a massive station tie-in promotion with The Weezer Cruise

t's not so much following in the vein of one particular artist as a large number of them, reworked and recombined. As such, it's an oftentimes enjoyable enough listen, but also reflects where the band currently stands in its career, starting out rather than distinctly something or someone itself.

heh – nice calibration there

Kill 'em with kindness.

http://youtu.be/cryycmunuQc

I really like Gauntlet Hair, mostly because of this track, "Top Bunk." Yes, the Animal Collective reference is sort of inevitable. But just a little way in, it starts breaking down into movements that are 100% Cocteau Twins. (I'm not sure how to describe this feeling I often get from Cocteau Twins -- I always associate it with being in a still, small room and looking out a window that's separating you from a really dramatic blizzard outside, just a few centimeters away -- but there are stretches of the Gauntlet Hair album that give me the same feeling.)

xpost -- "Elements are better than songs" is about right -- the album feels a bit like they wrote 200 possible sections of one song and then laid them all end to end. But I really hope they shape up something great for their next release; seems like they definitely could.

Yeah I'll totally allow for that! But if this had been the demo tape and their next release was the real debut they'd be better served.

Yup -- or, hey, if this were the demo piece and then they cannibalized it to shape something more song-based together! It's promising, though, because the album sounds like material that comes from playing live (hence everything being a samey wash?), and it seems like a good sign for a band that sounds like this to have figured out their sound while playing in front of people. Or at least it's different from the 99.9% of similar bands who go from recording to stages. I can definitely imagine them sitting down to write A Record Album, or writing in the studio, and coming up with something I'd love.

Not entirely sold on their Nerd And Oates image, though:

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic200/drp800/p887/p88797xkt1k.jpg

suggest ban

... the dude in front is wearing a hoodie, right, because it looks a little like dude in back's deformed leg is wrapped around the back of front dude's head

derp and oates

Feel like this is relevant -- an indie adult contempo station just launched in my neck of the woods!

http://www.openaircpr.org/

Top 30 Oct 24-30

1. Wilco
2. Feist
3. Deer Tick
4. Clap Your Hands Say Yeah
5. Peter Wolf Crier
6. Beirut
7. Gauntlet Hair
8. Givers
9. Girls
10. St. Vincent

― tylerw, Tuesday, November 1, 2011 2:59 PM Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

that is seriously the most enervating playlist I've ever seen.

― lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, November 1, 2011 3:00 PM Bookmark

OTM, except I think St. Vincent is alright and not really enervating.

Bros, chilling:

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic200/drp800/p887/p88796ycixa.jpg

Then again, who knows:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_sILZbvmhW_k/TT9K3Tu929I/AAAAAAAAAV4/7nIoA4zuahU/s1600/gh.jpg

Bros, chilling

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/goss.jpg

The previous two photos really are just iterations of the same archetype.

1. Angus & Julia Stone
2. Kings of Convenience
3. Jolie Holland
4. Jose Gonzalez
5. Nouvelle Vague
6. Quantic
7. Sufjan Stevens
8. Thievery Corporation
9. The XX
10. Yo La Tengo

I wibbled about them here. A band for whom elements are better than songs at this point.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, November 1, 2011 3:07 PM Bookmark

So your take is basically band-that-sounds-like-its-record-collection, a phrase that I think I first read on ILM iirc.

Yup!

And I didn't mean that in a critical way at all vis a vis your review btw, it's a nice piece.

I don't understand why dads get so slammed for having shitty taste in music. In my experience moms are just as bad if not worse. What would "mom rock" be?

― that's not funny. (unperson), Sunday, October 30, 2011 1:22 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark

there are definitely things that i think of as "mom rock." my mom has pretty good taste for a mom but it's still mostly folk-influenced stuff with strong female vocals: gillian welch, lucinda williams, alison krauss, etc.

My mom has Carly Simon, Joni Mitchell, The Dixie Chicks, Dido and John Mayer

that is seriously the most enervating playlist I've ever seen.

I'm not gonna front - if that station was near me, I'd listen to it. It would beat 99% of the other stations around here.

My mom's favorite bands are Steely Dan and Dire Straits, which means that getting older was sort of a case of "Ok mom, you're cooler than I thought," combined with being sort of disgusted at my mom singing along to songs about cocaine parties and threesomes.

For all you know it brought back great memories for her!

seeing the tracklisting for this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birdy_%28Birdy_album%29 made me think of this thread

track 8 is where the painful realisation sets in.

That whole tracklisting causes pain.

the xx certainly fits the description of this thread

What would "mom rock" be?

I remember when going thru the divorce my parents were bothing listening to alot of Don Henley, and mom was really into Jackson Browne.

I remember when going thru the divorce my parents were bothing listening to alot of Don Henley,

"Dirty Laundry"? "If Dirt Were Dollars"?

A dolt, contemporary

The bonus Mew cover (of Comforting Sounds!) is the biggest wtf on that Birdy album.

ctrl+F for "Kate Bush" itt returns nothing up to this point, strangely

Kate Bush already has a genre -- we called it Art Rock back then -- and besides is entirely too weird and awesome to be dragged into this.

and artists that ilx like arent allowed to be called indie incase it upsets reformed indie kids who suffer guilt

nothing against Kate Bush, she's way better than most "indie adult contemporary" artists IMO, but as arty as her music can get I feel like it is largely an '80s equivalent to this category

true, but ilxors wont like you saying it

fyi I would also classify the Chameleons, who are one of my fav bands ever ever ever, as indie adult contemporary

Really?!!? On what basis would you say that? The angst level of the Chameleons is way beyond Wilco or Coldplay.

Yeah, I guess they are still a rock band at heart. I couldn't see an indie adult contemporary band doing "In Shreds" or "Don't Fall." I was thinking more about their dreamier stuff, which I guess falls under the umbrella of dream pop.

coldplay wouldn't exist without bands like the chameleons though

80s indie adult contemporary playlist

10,000 Maniacs - In My Tribe
Bob Mould - Workbook
The Replacements - Don't Tell A Soul
Talking Heads - True Stories
Patti Smith - Dream Of Life
Elvis Costello - Spike

and anything by Richard Thompson.

But Korny, that's just big college albums of the late 80s. I don't think that qualifies as "indie adult contemporary" unless you're saying that after 20-25 years everything moves into that category because it's more nostalgic than anything.

Yeah by that metric R.E.M. is sort of the Grand Poohbah of the whole category. Which is fair in a way -- a lot of people who grew up listening to R.E.M. are now Wilco fans.

and anything by Richard Thompson

he is more "adult album alternative" which if you even buy that it exists skews older & folkier and may or may not be "indie"

I love hot 80s indie bands like fairport convention....saw them and pentangle open for dead milkmen

But Korny, that's just big college albums of the late 80s. I don't think that qualifies as "indie adult contemporary" unless you're saying that after 20-25 years everything moves into that category because it's more nostalgic than anything.

no, korny is otm. those albums were the Serious Albums of that era. there was a lot of shit that was big but didn't come with the This Matters tag that that stuff came with. Did anybody actually listen to Dream of Life tho?

I see your point, though the hype didn't really register when I was listening to those records in college (well, the first 3 for me). I'm struggling with this thread because of the seeming use of "indie adult contemporary" as a pejorative.

I guess I'd be happy to hang with the indie adult contemporary crowd because I don't know anyone who even OWNS "Workbook" anymore. I listened to it recently and it still resonates. The others on that list, though - feh.

i own it

I'm struggling with this thread because of the seeming use of "indie adult contemporary" as a pejorative.

hating on this stuff is a gesture of v. complex social positioning and teasing out what it's all about is beyond the scope of this thread imo

I can't believe there is a band named after a line from a Wilco song that is seven years old.

Nabisco posted a long apology on his tumblr for his "Indie Adult Contemporary" article:
my mortifying month

I personally think the original article was fine and needs no apologies, but I guess there were many people out there who were offended by having their taste potentially called into question.

this version of "Shelter" by Birdy is like listening to someone fundamentally misunderstand Tori Amos

Nabisco is a national fucking treasure and one of the best writers pop culture has ever had imo

it is funny how calling something "adult contemporary" is kind of like the ultimate insult to someone's musical taste. is there another genre name that is so loathed? i guess no one says, "oh i'm an easy listening fan."

After defending the lite jazz fusion playing gently over the loudspeakers at a restaurant last night, my non-"into"-music compadres called me a hipster. I don't know what this world is coming to.

Yeah I was thinking about that. I like plenty of A/C stuff -- I called "Need You Now" an A/C classic in a review and meant it entirely as a compliment.

Also I think it's interesting how little discussion or appreciation there is in the Nabisco-haterz club of the sonic aspect of all this. "Radiohead/Wilco are so inventive," blah blah blah, yes but -- you can put them on in a coffeehouse or at a cocktail hour and for the most part they work just fine. Which is not to say that soft music is bad music, but it is to acknowledge that soft music is soft music, and part of what makes it "safe" vs. other kinds of music is just that it doesn't knock you upside the head, it doesn't have the room-clearing potential that hip-hop or metal or for that matter Wagner does if you play it to the wrong crowd. The most people who don't like are going to do is roll their eyes and have another drink.

maybe I'll post a link to this here: Florence and the Machine - Ceremonials

xp I meant, the most people who don't like Wilco are going to do is roll their eyes...

where he got into trouble was writing about a convoluted music geek argument at all; reading Nabisco's opinion & description of Wilco would be 10,0000 times more interesting

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah, I suppose he was making the kind of argument that might be more comprehensible in his Pitchfork column. Still people are ridiculously oversensitive to the possibility that their taste in music could ever be called into question.

Which is not to say that soft music is bad music, but it is to acknowledge that soft music is soft music, and part of what makes it "safe" vs. other kinds of music is just that it doesn't knock you upside the head,

well, but that's one of the points he's making: there are more kinds of invention than the kinds that knock you upside the head. there's this unfortunate syllogism people seem to have that since a lot of inventive things have also been very disruptive, therefore only disruptive things are inventive. which isn't true at all; there's a lot of very creative, very inventive music that's also quite easy to ignore. west coast jazz was quite innovative, but it didn't beat your face in like free jazz did, for example.

OTM. And how is music supposed to "knock you upside the head" anyway? Another Green World did twenty years ago, but for the most part its greatness for me lies in its quietude: the pools of silence, the interaction of space and instruments. Boz Scaggs' "Simone" had the same effect a few days ago. Not every record needs to sound like Second Edition.

But Korny, that's just big college albums of the late 80s. I don't think that qualifies as "indie adult contemporary" unless you're saying that after 20-25 years everything moves into that category

Not everything. Just the more middle of the road work by "alternative" artists. Fear Of Music wouldn't be indie adult contemporary, nor Let It Be. But True Stories and Don't Tell A Soul are.

For the record, I'm a proud lover of this made up genre.

maria showed me a facebook thread recently where some guy just went postal when someone maligned wilco. like, he just went off on everyone who posted on the facebook post. he even went off on maria and he hasn't seen her since the 80's. it was something to see.

Not every record needs to sound like Second Edition.

Of course, but you can't entirely escape the association of "noise" with both youth and invention. The willingness to be disruptive carries this inherent challenge. Doesn't mean that noisy music is better or smarter or more innovative, but it mostly doesn't risk being associated with coffeehouses or dinner parties. The original "adult contemporary" label was partly a way to group together things that, as a whole -- regardless of their individual merits -- provided a sonic refuge. And really, I think the "adult" part of the equation is the thing that makes people uncomfortable, because in this context rather than maturity or refinement it has come to suggest simply getting old, out of touch, dull (in all senses of the word). Nabisco's essay, despite his best intentions, was taken as calling a bunch of people boring old farts -- and people really don't like that.

(Also, I like both coffeehouses and dinner parties, and there's lots of music I love that I would not play in either of them. There's plenty of great coffeehouse and dinner-party music.)

What we're talking about is a Baby Boomer myth of rock'n'roll. Nearly everything you hear about the first two decades of rock wants to describe it as a grand revolutionary yawp-- a tool of physical and sexual youth liberation, a thing wielded by a counterculture against squares. Never mind that a healthy share of rock artists spent those decades making their music more and more sophisticated. Never mind that a lot of the normal people spinning rock records in 1968 might have been spinning Barbra Streisand or Sergio Mendes records in between them. The narrative that really sticks for people is the one in which the crass, sweaty noise saves everyone from whatever prim and pleasant music they were so bored with before. The narrative is so compelling that when actual late-1970s humans got bored with the directions rock music had traveled, their first instinct was to rewind to the beginning and restage another revolutionary yawp-- namely, punk, which just made the myth even stronger. At this point, it tends to feel like every other music documentary, biopic, or retrospective wants to tell this story all over again. Everything was repressed and bland and boring, but then rock, or punk, or Nirvana came along with a roar that changed it all.

bill evans great for dinner parties. lots of jazz really. people should listen to more jazz.

i like the coffee place run by lesbians near me. always lots of disco. big thumbs up.

Everything was repressed and bland and boring, but then rock, or punk, or Nirvana came along with a roar that changed it all.

I dunno. In the fall of 1991 I was living in a college dorm. Dudes down the hall blared Use Your Illusion all the time. When spring rolled around they were blaring Nevermind. I would never say that Nirvana "saved" these people with their crass sweaty noise, though. That's just ridiculous!

especially when "Justified and Ancient" was following Nirvana up the charts.

moo moo!

jackyl set the children free. i never hear jackyl in coffee shops. what's up with that?

Que, I think Nabisco is singling that out as a hoary and apocryphal narrative.

Fwiw, I'm not talking about the mythos, I'm just talking about the physical sensation and effect of disruptive noise. Which is something that people in our culture -- in general, with tons of exceptions -- seem to value less and seek out less as they get older. But when you note that that is part of what is happening with their Wilco/Feist affinity, they don't like it becz people don't like being called Old. Still.

The difference between music that demands attention -- whether you want to give it or not -- and music that (its advocates would say) rewards attention, but does not require it.

Que, I think Nabisco is singling that out as a hoary and apocryphal narrative.

yeah. i got that. i think Nirvana did change a lot of people's listening habits, though!

Jeff Tweedy

Adult Head

In turns complex and surreal, playful and painful, puerile and poignant, Adult Head rewards readers with a unique, mature and sophisticated prosody and deep wisdom. These poems prove that some songwriters are also poets on the page (one thinks of Robert Burns) and at least one of these hybrids is alive, well and writing poems that are among some of the best poetry in America today. Adult Head is the first book in the Nightingale Editions series and the first book by Jeff Tweedy.

Published by Zoo Press, 2004

Paperback, 53 pages

puerile and poignant

1.0 out of 5 stars Tarantula - by Bob Dylan, April 12, 2003
By
Faith Young "shoodBworkin" - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
This review is from: Tarantula (Paperback)
Possibly the worst book ever written. Self indulgent free associative codswallop from the days when you could get away with it because your readers were stoned

yeah. i got that. i think Nirvana did change a lot of people's listening habits, though!

Oh, sorry, I misread your post!

I really wish Nabisco would sometimes give an example of a "music lover" with one of the many opinions he assigns to "many music lovers" in his pieces.

Like, if you want to be journalistic and above the fray, give some concrete examples of the fray.

A million "the fray" joeks involving The Fray popping to mind but I can't seem to make them happen.

Here’s the question I’d like to put forth: Shouldn’t it be more possible — maybe even more common — for essays about music to be able to neutrally describe what “sources say,” or sources do, or sources listen to, without out trying to read behind that into what the author’s own tastes are? Amazingly enough, this isn’t something I’m suggesting out of defensiveness: I just think it’s incredibly important. There needs to be room for music writing that’s not just about the author performing taste and making value judgments. So much of the life of music — the ways we hear it, the things we want from it, and so on — exist in a huge, complicated context, and someone needs to describe that context

I suppose it should be possible, and maybe it is, but I don't think so. The huge complicated context includes values judgments that make said context even more complicated.

and again, you need to say who the hell these sources are, lest we assume you're just being even-handed about strawmen.

also, in the first paragraph we get It turns out that Tweedy and his basement “meh”-sayers are both right: Wilco has packed some first-rate musicianship into an album that feels a bit like sitting on a Chicago back deck watching a particularly uneventful baseball game so complaining that everyone misses your neutrality is a bit much.

i think that image was supposed to illustrate "pleasant and not disruptive." some people like uneventful baseball games?

look out y'all da croup ain't buyin it

a bit like sitting on a Chicago back deck watching a particularly uneventful baseball game
i'm such a boring dude. this sounds like a good time. is there beer?

Yeah, I definitely got the sense from the original article that he was criticizing rather than defending Wilco and Feist, but I feel those criticisms were well deserved.

xxxpost

aerosmith, what exactly that I'm saying do you have a problem with?

i have no idea what that sentence is trying to say? that the new wilco is kind of boring but you can drink beer to it?

Well, these excerpts get to the heart of what aggravates me about nabisco's writing sometimes, despite its considerable finesse and formalist power: wanting to be the neutral arbiter – the Nice Guy – in the wrong line of work.

agree with croup 100% on the naming the sources thing. isn't that what fox news does? "sources say that Obama is a secret panty sniffer, what do YOU think?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjuZmtI9Tcg

"music lovers everywhere love the fresh taste of Wilco!"

aerosmith, what exactly that I'm saying do you have a problem with?

nothing, I'm just needling yr CALLIN' BULLSHIT style (you need to say who the hell these sources are)

ha yeah that "the hell" would have sounded more comically annoyed and less "j'accuse!" in person

that apology is painful! i just read it. dude, nabisco, your piece was fine. and people actually talked about it. which is a good thing. you can't write for new york and be that sensitive! give 'em hell! (i figure he's lurking around here) people are always gonna project when they read stuff like that. no matter how impartial you try to be, people will see you as a raving wilco-hating sting-hater. there are worse things to be seen as. like boring and not worth reading.

yeah. i got that. i think Nirvana did change a lot of people's listening habits, though!

― Mr. Que, Tuesday, November 8, 2011 9:19 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

for a lot of folks they were a gateway drug to relevant music, such as staind and creed.

ouch

sorry, sorry that was mean~!!!

i can take it, it was funny

objectively i recognize nirvana as being pretty great, but in a way i think their unintended effect was to make mainstream guitar heavy rock music a little less fun, maybe?

nabisco omar OTM

are you saying Slipknot weren't fun

yeah them and pearl jam but really didn't nirvana open the door for pearl jam kinda sorta?

we all know that grunge killed rock. that's old news. its something that every grunge artist has to live with for the rest of their lives.

let my amp open the door

"i killed what now?"

http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/countygrind/cornellwow.jpg

nirvana was probably a bigger influence in terms of the bands they TALKED about then for how they sounded

how many bands did China Crisis inspire?

yet every one who did either wrote reviews or joined Destroyer.

nirvana had a deadening effect on rock and pop music in general, both sonically and socially. the rise of hootie/blowfish in the wake of cobain's suicide made perfect sense. ppl wanted something reassuring, bland

thanks to cobain's t-shirt, there was that weird moment when atlantic records was like "You know who we should sign? Daniel Johnston! KACHING!!!"

hahaha remember this?

http://thepastisunwritten.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/corporate_magazines_still_suck1.jpg

nirvana turned me on to meat puppets II which is one of the greatest albums ever, so thanks kurdt wherever you are. i owe you a lot, i guess.

the new liverpool. this may be a dumb question, but what other really successful bands came out of liverpool?

metallica

Apart from China Crisis?

Nirvana are responsible for not preventing the record company from releasing two Springsteen albums that spring.

Even though I was there, it's hard for me to believe Adrenalize came after Nevermind.

did you get rocked?

anything that can inspire a band like Bush should hang its collective head in shame.

Generally speaking, it's time to worry when the term long-awaited gets appended to an album. Long-awaited doesn't just mean that the band in question took its sweet time delivering the disc; usually, it's industry code for "bloated and overblown."

Except, that is, when the long-awaited release in question is the work of Def Leppard. This, remember, is the only major rock act that works more slowly than Bruce Springsteen. In fairness, the band's tardiness isn't entirely the product of foot dragging, as the death of guitarist Steve Clark undoubtedly slowed this album (and doubled fellow guitarist Phil Collen's workload) even more than the loss of drummer Rick Allen's arm complicated the completion of Hysteria.

Yet regardless of the time spent in the studio, Def Leppard's albums never seem especially labored or overwrought. If anything, the opposite is true — the band's music seems so effortlessly accessible that most listeners probably don't even notice the incredible amount of craft that goes into each release.

Nor is Adrenalize, with its insistence on intensely tuneful, unrepentantly frivolous material, likely to change that. There's no overriding concept to the album, no sense of the group's confronting its demons or wrestling with the problems of the world; instead, what we get is a seemingly unending string of energetic, hook-heavy, gosh-we-luv-'em songs about girls. A perfect Def Leppard album, in other words.

That's not meant sarcastically, either. Because truth be told, it's far easier to prop up several couplets of self-revelation with a few heavy-metal riffs than it is to turn an idea as commonplace as romantic desire into a song as memorable as "Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad." But that's what Def Leppard does best, and Adrenalize is the band's most consistent effort to date.

Take "Have You Ever Needed Someone So Bad" as an example. Although the title pretty much sums up the idea behind the tune, the band is wise enough to recognize that when it comes to love songs, what gets said matters far less than how it gets said. Thus, the heart of the song is its melodic development, the way Joe Elliott's vocal builds from the breathy, low-key opening verse to the soaring, full-throated harmonies of the chorus. It's so perfectly paced that you hardly need to hear the lyrics to understand what the song is saying; the sound says it all.

That's typical of Def Leppard, though. From the first, this was a band that gloried in the power of heavy metal's musical gestures — the towering majesty of a power riff, the momentary freedom of a guitar break, the exhilaration of a singer's scream — and as the group has grown, its ability to manipulate that vocabulary has expanded to the point that its songs have become mini-masterpieces of aural impact.

Just listen to all the sonic detail crammed into the album-opening "Let's Get Rocked." Although rhythmically the song is an obvious descendant of "Pour Some Sugar on Me," playing off a throbbing Rick Savage bass line, stylistically it's miles beyond the last album, full of puns ("Let's get the rock out of here"), special effects (when Elliott complains about his girlfriend's fondness for classical music, the band mockingly answers with a snippet of Beethoven's Fifth) and all sorts of stagy good humor. Yet the Leps work these gimmicks in so gracefully that they never interrupt the music's flow, acting not as unnecessary contrivances but simply as another level of hook.

And there are hooks of every sort on Adrenalize, from broad strokes like the gloriously harmonized chorus of "Heaven Is" to ear-catching details like the little yodel Elliott slips into "Personal Property." Adrenalize is so relentlessly catchy that it almost seems as if the band is about to abandon its heavy-metal roots for the greener fields of hard pop. That's not to say the album is any softer than its predecessors — certainly the crunchy guitars of "Tear It Down" or "Make Love Like a Man" are proof to the contrary — just that it's not as noisily aggressive.

Consider that a sign of maturity. After all, what made Hysteria and Pyromania worth returning to wasn't their fist-pumping energy but the unabashed tunefulness the band tied to that sheer force. Adrenalize simply makes that connection more explicit, proving in the process that Def Leppard is one of the catchiest bands in rock. And if that doesn't make Adrenalize worth waiting for, I don't know what would.

That's not to say the album is any softer than its predecessors — certainly the crunchy guitars of "Tear It Down" or "Make Love Like a Man" are proof to the contrary — just that it's not as noisily aggressive.

nabisco! You forgot one!

full of puns ("Let's get the rock out of here")

full of puns ("Let's get the rock out of here")full of puns ("Let's get the rock out of here")full of puns ("Let's get the rock out of here")full of puns ("Let's get the rock out of here")full of puns ("Let's get the rock out of here")full of puns ("Let's get the rock out of here")full of puns ("Let's get the rock out of here")full of puns ("Let's get the rock out of here")full of puns ("Let's get the rock out of here")full of puns ("Let's get the rock out of here")full of puns ("Let's get the rock out of here")full of puns ("Let's get the rock out of here")full of puns ("Let's get the rock out of here")full of puns ("Let's get the rock out of here")

hahahahahaha xp

I'm actually curious to hear the little yodel Elliott slips into "Personal Property."

the little yodel Elliot slipped into his personal property.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kztYziPM-8Y

in there somewhere

anything that can inspire a band like Bush should hang its collective head in shame.

But no Bush, no success for Gavin Rossdale, therefore we'd lack this sublimely idiotic moment from Criminal Minds the other year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RP4m8CNzhM