Which is the best record from JOHN PEEL'S PUNK ROCK SPECIAL 1976 ?

If it had been the single version rather than the Peel session version, I'd have gone with "New Rose". But since it's not, I'm going with "(I'm) Stranded".

IMSTRANDED

shit, i didnt even notive you said that mike t-diva ^__^

I know Mike Read did a Punk top twenty for Radio 210, which I recorded on my old reel-to-reel back in the day (1977), but I haven't managed to find a listing of it and I don't have a reel-to-reel recorder anymore even though I have the tapes (somewhere)...

Interesting: why cite the Peel version of "New Rose" when the single must have been out; and where in hell's name are The Vibrators, who had not only recorded a John Peel session 7 weeks before The Damned did, but also had the single "We Vibrate" / "Whips & Furs" released, also before "Anarchy...." came out?!?

No surprises what I'm voting for 'though, obv.!

IMSTRANDED

xpost it was the Damned session. I'd have to check the book to see if it was it's first play though.

it would seem to be a repeat play. "I Fall" has been missed out it seems.

Their first Peel session was first aired on 30/11/76; "New Rose" / "Help" was released 22/10/76.

Peel also did a cracking two hour punk special in late Spring 1977 as I recall. Glued to the set throughout, I was.

Although many of the UK bands did some of their best work on Peel sessions, I didn't think that the session version of "New Rose" quite hit the mark. A shade too jolly, not enough menace.

That Vibrators session wasn't that great though, was it? "Whips And Furs" was quite fun - but, you know, souped up pub rock etc etc. (Would the Chris Spedding collaboration 7" "Pogo Dancing" also have been out by then? I rather think it would have been.)

yeah, sure that was 1976 too.

"Pogo Dancing" definitely came out in '76 - not sure of the exact date but I have a vague feeling that it may have been the same as "We Vibrate" / "Whips & Furs".

".... quite fun - but, you know, souped up pub rock etc etc."

More so than The Fast or Tuff Darts?!?

And surely it would have been better - especially if one was trying to give evidence to suggest / support a supposedly newly emerging movement - to use one of the few little bits that was actually there and push a bit a bit of fresh, home-grown talent than to exhume The Seeds or Shadows Of Knight?

Wouldn't the NY Dolls or MC5 pr Patti Smith have had a bit more relevance / resonance?

Um, NY Dolls are there!

Well, it was early in the scene as far as the media was concerned. People hadn't decided what the 'canon' was, never mind making decisions as to what to add or leave out.

Oops, my bad! Substitute The Dictators or maybe even The Runaways in there instead then.

(X-post)

"People hadn't decided what the 'canon' was, never mind making decisions as to what to add or leave out."

You might have been forgiven for thinking so, but - with only 3 singles that were very clearly actually within the UK 'canon', and one of them omitted from this list - self-evidently this already wasn't the case....

Peel never liked Patti Smith, or Blondie ("X-Offender" was out by then, yes?), or The Runaways, or indeed Talking Heads as I recall ("Love Goes To Building On Fire" was definitely out by then, and Talking Heads were still being classed as part of the same scene).

The Vibrators' stock was not high at that stage - largely seen as second-rank slipstream bandwagoneers. The way I rememeber it, they didn't really claw back any lost ground until "London Girls".

The Seeds and Shadows Of Knight could be justified as providing historical context, as "punk rock" meant Nuggets-era bands before it meant Ramones/Pistols era bands, as my early 1976 NME "Dictionary Of Rock" paperback made clear...

Not disputing any of this - nevertheless, The Vibrators stock was evidently high enough with John Peel for him to have given them a session (the first of 3 - all in that critical 79-76 time frame); and I'd have expected even "second-rank slipstream bandwagoneers" to have managed to sneak their way onto the list; if only by default; at a time when there had only been 3 singles released by any UK punk bands of any calibre for one to choose from!

Well, "We Vibrate" was always a novelty single, really. And "Pogo Dancing" was a Chris Spedding single primarily.

funny: I dug out that ramones single the live tracks came from last week (I remember you) for the kids to act as DJ with on my very old stereo portable.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/MarkGrout/rplayer.jpg

I wasn't including the Chris Spedding single - quite apart from anything else, he already had at least one album out and had had a Top 20 hit with "Motor Bikin'".

As regards "We Vibrate", I have pondered on many occasions (including, on a couple of occasions, with Knox and Eddie!) how differently things might have turned out if they'd (been allowed to have / been confident & assertive enough to insist on having) that single released the other wat 'round; i.e. with "Whips & Furs" on the "A" side; as they'd originally envisaged.....

Well, certainly with RAK singles as well as other labels of the time, there wasn't any great marking on the label to show which was the a-side and which was 'b'. So, the band could have promoted the b-side. But it was the a-side that got the airplay.

In those days, with an almost entirely unknown band, it was very much the amount of airplay a record got - or in this case didn't get - that was the key factor.

Well, that plus a bit of luck and of course whether the song that was being played was actually any good or not (and in this respect it must surely be clear / have been clear to even the most cloth-eared half-wit that "Whips & Furs" is not only head & shoulders but most of it's bleedin' torso above "We Vibrate"!).

As it was however I think it's unlikely there was very much the band could have done at that stage that would have represented anything any more effective than preaching to the (very small number of) converted: although maybe if Knox was a bit more imposing as a front man; maybe if the band had (ever had) halfway decent management.... who knows?

So, my conclusion being that We Vibrate was really a bit too silly to be included in a "Punk Rock Special" radio show, seeing as most of the other records be mostly 'srs'.

Of course, the following year the inherant silliness became more apparent.

Grounds for choosing "Whips & Furs" / "Dance To The Music", "Sweet Sweetheart", "Jenny, Jenny" or "(I'm Gonna Be Your) Nazi Baby" (the other 1976 Vibrators' Peel Session tracks) rather than "We Vibrate"?

Maybe.

Grounds for completely excluding one of the only 2 UK Punk bands to have recorded a Peel session / one of the only 3 to have released a single, rather than including no less than 3 (out of 4) session tracks from one of the others* 'though?

Of course it's patently obvious that I am wrong - I just don't understand why: I didn't understand it in 1977 and I don't understand it now!

* - and I've always been first and foremost a Damned fan, don't forget!

'(i'm) stranded', then ubu, then the rest.

xpost yeah but this is 1976. My guess is that this was an extended 'punk' special incorporating a repeat of the Damned session. If they'd included the Vibrators session, they'd have to be paid a repeat fee. And seeing as this was only a one-hour show, they presumably didn't have time.

"My guess is that this was an extended 'punk' special incorporating a repeat of the Damned session. If they'd included the Vibrators session, they'd have to be paid a repeat fee. And seeing as this was only a one-hour show, they presumably didn't have time."

Interesting theory - and would certainly explain why they might have chosen to play the (obviously rare but nonethless markedly inferior, as Mike's already quite rightly pointed out) session version of "New Rose" rather than the single.

Do you / has anyone any idea how this works: i.e. if they only played part of a Session would they still have to pay repeat fees for all of it or would it be divisible by e.g. the number of tracks; and how do repeat fees for sessions / tracks from sessions compare with royalty fees for playing singles?

Mind you, I still reckon they could have played "Whips & Furs" rather than The Fast of bleedin Tuff Darts - at least they'd have been supporting the nascent UK scene; and it couldn't have cost them any more.... could it?!?

Well, back in 1968 or so, there had been so many requests for Love Sculpture's "Sabre Dance" that had been played early in the particular programme, that it got repeated later on that same show, so the BBC had to pay the entire session fee twice over.

So, yeah.

But, point taken about Whips and furs, although I've not heard the track. I guess it was less about 'supporting the UK scene'and more about the punk scene in general at that time.

Whips and Furs is pretty much Another Girl, Another Planet without the intro and solo, innit?

Just sayin' like.

xpost: I don't remember Peel ever playing lone session tracks on other shows. I do remember one "2-Tone special" show that was nothing but session tracks, though.

yeah, I still have most of that on cassette.

It's amazing for the stuff that wasn't two tone as well, that night, like the first plays for "Holiday in Cambodia" and JDiv's flexi as well!

"Whips and Furs is pretty much Another Girl, Another Planet without the intro and solo, innit?"

Very similar - we (Broken Dream) regularly used to seque from one to the other live.

"....although I've not heard the track"

Eeek! Almost missed this! Not heard the first Vibrators album then? Cor blimey are you in for a treat guv'nor!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=d1bwbkhwxRc

Shall catch that at home, ta.

That recording's just a little bit more recent than 1976 'though....

Everything on this except Pere Ubu and the Stooges is just kids' stuff.

YEAH!

Bill serving up the challops for your grill today

hilarious

final solution in a walk

^^^ I cannot disagree with 69

Either can I

Me four

"Final Solution," easy. Then Seeds, Dolls, Pistols, Voidoids, Stooges, in some order or other. Then probably Television, Saints, both Damned songs, and both Ramones songs. (Dictators did "California Sun" a lot better, and so did the Rivieras.) But I might rank the Eddie and the Hot Rods and Shadows of Knight songs a lot higher if I heard them. (I generally like both bands a lot, especially their singles.) Don't know what the Tuff Darts or the Fast sound like, though I'd like to hear the latter.

the saints and it's not even close.

xp

By "both Damned songs," I meant "New Rose" and "Neat Neat Neat," actually. The other two would be lower. (But I don't know those Peel Session versions, actually, so maybe they all would.) (And fwiw, I like the Vibrators way more than the Damned, too.)

OMG that pic upthread is classick for all sorts of reasons, Mark G. I've never even seen a record player like that, for one thing.

blank generation

"Blank Generation" - best guitars in punk history

Oh God another great tricky listtoday.

Ramones
Saints
Damned New Rose
Dicky Hell

Ramones as both of those songs are classic - the dumbness of 'I don't wanna walk around with you and the tune that is 'california sun'.

So, it's not fair really cos 'Blank Generation' IS the best song but the greatness of those two brudders songs add up to more than one so...

Having said that, could swear the 'California Sun' was on 1977's 'Leave home'

It was. I assume the versions played on this show were the live ones they tacked on the end of All The Stuff And More #1.

yes, and on the b-side of "I remember you"

"Anarchy in the U.K"

so messed up and i'm stranded.
but so messed up for the DRUMS!

I'm Stranded is one of the most incessantly overplayed on TV and radio songs in the history of the universe, I shudder at the thought of even hearing it now. Which is a shame.

Really? Stranded? On the radio??

i've never heard i'm stranded used in anything, ever.

WTF. Me neither! Are you Australian, energy flash gordon? Maybe they're more famous there?

Everything on this except Pere Ubu and the Stooges is just kids' stuff.

As is a LOT of great music. But I'm voting for Ubu as well, anyways.

But I might rank the Eddie and the Hot Rods and Shadows of Knight songs a lot higher if I heard them. (I generally like both bands a lot, especially their singles.)

The Hot Rods track is an album remake of an early B-side (which was merely "weary" of the schmaltz). From memory, I preferred the B-side; apart from anything else, it still had Lew Lewis on it.

"Final Solution" is the only one of the four Hearthan 7"s that I never picked up on import, and so I always feel that I've done it a comparative mis-service.

Saints v. PUbu

I'm Stranded is one of the most incessantly overplayed on TV and radio songs in the history of the universe, I shudder at the thought of even hearing it now. Which is a shame.

-- energy flash gordon, Thursday, 10 July 2008 13:32 (5 hours ago) Bookmark Link

where on tv? r4ge at 3am??

That might be a typo on that Eddie/Hotrods track. I'm sure Peel intros it as "Weary" on the link mp3.

Diff thread just reminded me..

Our 'bunch' used to frequent Radio 210 'celeb' football matches, usually for the chuckout of records.

Usually they were crap radio disco stuff. But one time, they awarded as a prize the Mercury recs edition of "The Modern Dance" Pere Ubu album. "Oh lovely, I like diso" said the granny who got it.

I know I'd have never convinced her to give it to ME!!! !!!!!ME!!!

"Oh lovely, I like Disco" said the gran

xpost: Just d/led the Hot Rods MP3 - cool, it's the Lew Lewis B-side "Weary" version. Still sounding great as well...

My, that's a tartly veiled little bitch-off at Caroline Coon in the "Peel Wraps Up" section... mi-aow!

Bloody bickering hippies

Well, she had the legs for it.

Oh, just to indicate: The version of "Final Solution" is cut in the middle, presumably because the source tape hit the end of side 1. It's OK though, as it is the fairly easy to find single version, even though it's played off the "Max's Kansas City" album it's not a live version.

Strewth, I hadn't heard that Fast track in over 30 years. Must have had it taped off another Peel Show. Included on the show as Peel's top pick from the Max's Kansas City comp; likewise Tuff Darts as his pick from the CBGB's comp.

Very tough, but nothing beats The Saints.

this thread caused me to go home last night and listen to a bootleg of the saints from 1977. so fucking good.

Did you remember to play "Whips & Furs" last night Mark?

Were you suitably impressed & are you now planning to head straight out to buy the first couple of Vibrators albums without any further delay?

ah, not.

I played "Baby Baby" last night. And I was humming "Whips & Furs" in my head for a couple of hours.

I'm currently listening to Meltdown, from 1988. This album's better than most of the Vibrators' 80s albums I've heard.

The saints are so ILM it hurts

So how come more people didn't vote in the "(I'm) Stranded" poll?

that was the album?

Y'what?

The Saints weren't fit to load and unload Radio Birdman's gear.

Never Mind the Challops

Just an opinion man. Saints first album was ok, the rest sucked, especially all the crap with the horns. Birdman, on the other hand, rocked mightily.

i liked the second album pretty well. everything after that wasn't worth it for me.

Saints first album was ok, the rest sucked,
i'd say the same thing about radio birdman.

I guess youre missing the NFL too, if you and I are arguing over old Aussie punk bands

;_;

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

OK.

I did find out that this was the first play of this Damned session. Where "I Fall" went I cannot say.

The Fast turned into Man 2 Man. Haven't heard 'Boys will be boys', but there are a couple of vids on youtube, and they're amazing. Check 'em out.

Those titles: "Love me like a locomotive" and "Kids just wanna dance".

What, as in "meets Man Parrish" and "Male Stripper" etc?

None other. Greatest 1st generation queer punk band you've never heard of.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Amazing! xpost.

I did find out that this was the first play of this Damned session. Where "I Fall" went I cannot say.

-- Mark G, Sunday, 13 July 2008 20:00 (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

I forgot I was going to revive this today.

"Whips and Furs is pretty much Another Girl, Another Planet without the intro and solo, innit?"

Very similar - we (Broken Dream) regularly used to seque from one to the other live.

― Stewart Osborne, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 14:08 (4 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

How come, when 'Whips & Furs' came out around two years before 'Another Girl...', the latter is all people know when the former is so much tighter and enjoyable?

(i'm) stranded is sooooooooooo good

Personality Crisis robbed

'(I'm) Stranded' is too fucking long. Would be so much better if they cut a verse. Or two.

Where's the love for personality crisis???

Whips and Furs is pretty much Another Girl, Another Planet without the intro and solo, innit?"

Very similar - we (Broken Dream) regularly used to seque from one to the other live.

― Stewart Osborne, Wednesday, 9 July 2008 14:08 (4 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

How come, when 'Whips & Furs' came out around two years before 'Another Girl...', the latter is all people know when the former is so much tighter and enjoyable?

― Mates of 808 State (S-), Sunday, February 10, 2013 9:20 PM (2 months ago)