Good major Label Rock/Metal albums from Late 90's-2008?

* Crickets chirping *

Mastodon, Qotsa, Unida(I think was on a major label), At The Drive In.

yeah er the mars volta are pretty major label aren't they, a couple of their albums are really good

Need chuck to post.

Tool!

funnily enough my current listening is ulver - nattens madrigal, which was on century media, not quite major label but getting on that way, altho i think it was 1996

I don't think even DJ Martian will be able to list many decent albums from the past few years.
Meshuggah must've been on a major label at some point. Entombed/Carcass etc must've been dropped by 97.

that should've read Entombed/Carcass etc must've been dropped by 97?

i'm gonna be CONTROVERSIAL and claim that Muse's 2nd and 3rd records were in fact pretty good

Next you will be saying that Biffy Clyro cd you bought was actually not bad..

Erm.

Mclusky count, don't they? Too Pure a major label?

You know it's bad when someone is pushing Muse as one of the better bands.

Black Holes and Revelations was great.

Honestly, Absolution and ESPECIALLY Origin Of Symmetry are really rather good. Formulaic, no doubt, but they have an intuitive grasp of how to build a tune and let rip a memorable chorus/bridge.

The latest one I didn't like so much, but then I didn't really give it a fair chance. Thought it sounded a lot more basic and less well thought-out than the previous two.

I say this as someone who just sat through and LOVED Nattens Madrigal, so none of the ad hominem crap please. (I am of course committing another argument flaw: the appeal to authority, but it's a fucking sweet authority so who gives?)

Meshuggah must've been on a major label at some point. Entombed/Carcass etc must've been dropped by 97.

pretty sure meshuggah have always been on nuclear blast, so nah, just on a big indie label. except for the 'i' ep which was on some tiny indie label. ;-)

as for the question up top, faith no more - album of the year. it's not bad. came out 1997.

clutch....

oh yeah, iron maiden! there's gotta a couple others too.

I know the 1st Clutch was on a major but they're not still on one are they? 1st Clutch album is the only one I liked funnily enough, cant stand the guys vocals.

I will rep for Mars Volta as decent sub-Floyd with quality psych doses.

OK Computer springs to mind

we're going for heavier, more overtly 'rock' than OK Computer tho, aren't we?

Whiney's original post was more about hard rock/metal though.
x-post

well that can be another thread i suppose if anyone wants to start it.

btw Alan good call on the FNM

Kinda feeling the first three QOTSA records.

1st wasnt on a major.

Monster Magnet can be added to the list.

The Donnas Spend the Night on Atlantic, 2002, I thin', maybe a little later. The next one was on Atlantic, too, but wasn't as good.

There's more than you think laying about but, to be honest, I can't see much of it being to the taste of the original question.

I think if it gets in mags like Kerrang it counts. Not everyone might agree it's good though (like my chemical romance,panic at the disco or the nu-metal bands)

Oh yeah deftones, how did I forget about them.

Century Media is in no way a major label. Iron Maiden are still on EMI though.

Some people of course think Relapse and even Hydrahead and Southern Lord are majors.

System of a Down - Toxicity

good shout

I'll rep that album to death. I mean I can't really deal with it for more than a few songs at a time, but it's fucking great.

Yeah, I haven't heard that one in quite a while, but I can't say I dislike it.

I'd add Deftones to this list as well, as they made quite a few good records in the timeframe. And if Virgin counts as a major label, then At The Drive-In's 'Relationship of Command' was a big deal when it came out (it's since been reissued on an indie, so it probably doesn't count anymore).

I know the 1st Clutch was on a major but they're not still on one are they? 1st Clutch album is the only one I liked funnily enough, cant stand the guys vocals.

the first three were on major labels. I like em all. self-titled one was a serious high school jam. I even went to an early limp bizkit show because clutch were opening! this was before they were really very big at all... but I guess they were still bigger than clutch!

pretty funny story about that show... me and my buddy got separated in the venue. so, we're each doing our own thing the whole time during clutch. then limp bizkit comes on. I watch a couple songs and then I'm like, "eh, this is pretty dumb. I'm leavin!" so, thinking I'll just wait for my buddy in the lobby, I walk out and promptly bump into him doing the exact same thing!

one of my mates went to see helmet/limp bizkit and some other band when lb werent that well known here. He thought Helmet were better and borrowed my cds after it.

I'll definitely rep for Deftones, Mars Volta (everything except ScabDates is at least partly defensible, and the first two are close to great), the first two System of a Down records, Down (they're on Interscope, I think), Pantera (The Great Southern Trendkill was '97, I think, and Reinventing The Steel came out in 2000), Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, the Donnas, and yes, Muse - I have the last two studio discs and the live album, and they're all great.

I was waiting on someone saying Pantera. I hate those albums.

infact i just plain hate Pantera apart from a few tracks on cowboys from hell and vulgar display of power.

Mastodon, Qotsa, Unida(I think was on a major label), At The Drive In.

Wrong, wrong, if you're talking about Oneida then I don't think it was a major... and wrong.

yeah er the mars volta are pretty major label aren't they, a couple of their albums are really good

Wrong.

Tool!

Gotta be shitting me. Tool = awful.

i'm gonna be CONTROVERSIAL and claim that Muse's 2nd and 3rd records were in fact pretty good

Not as bad as Tool... but still, wrong.

Mclusky count, don't they? Too Pure a major label?

Nope. Great band though.

You know it's bad when someone is pushing Muse as one of the better bands.

OTM.

Black Holes and Revelations was great.

You're on crack.

Honestly, Absolution and ESPECIALLY Origin Of Symmetry are really rather good.

You're on crack too.

as for the question up top, faith no more - album of the year. it's not bad. came out 1997.

I'll let this one slide.

I will rep for Mars Volta as decent sub-Floyd with quality psych doses.

Sub-Floyd, huh? Must be pretty awful. Hard to be more tedious than Floyd.

OK Computer springs to mind

Thought of this myself. Not exactly rock/metal... but, fantastic album.

Kinda feeling the first three QOTSA records.

I'll give you the first two. Not great, but at least they don't outright suck like the next 3-4 of theirs.

Monster Magnet can be added to the list.

Herman, put down the bong.

The Donnas Spend the Night on Atlantic, 2002, I thin', maybe a little later.

Gag me with a rusty fork.

Oh yeah deftones, how did I forget about them.

Oh, I know why... because they are NOT ANY GOOD.

System of a Down - Toxicity

Now that's a real stinker.

And if Virgin counts as a major label, then At The Drive-In's 'Relationship of Command' was a big deal when it came out (it's since been reissued on an indie, so it probably doesn't count anymore).

Sucks, but hey, at least it's not the Mars Volta.

I was waiting on someone saying Pantera. I hate those albums.

At last, a voice of reason comes through. Thank you.

(I don't have a better answer for the poster's original question, by the way.)

Herman dont smoke and I was talking about Unida not Oneida (who are also great but definitely not on a major)

stephen why don't you check out pitchfork, i'm sure they've got a few good ideas

and it appears that the 1st album was on Mans Ruin and the 2nd album which was on a major label of course didnt come out (Gracia sold cdrs of the unreleased 2nd album at Herman shows which a mate got me one)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unida

not Oneida (who are also great but definitely not on a major)

Ah good call. Haven't heard (or heard of) Unida.

stephen why don't you check out pitchfork, i'm sure they've got a few good ideas

Louis whatchu talkin bout, Pitchfork-approved (or dissed) is hardly my measuring stick for good music.

The unida album was great but sadly I was wrong about the label. I thought it was just the vinyl wasn't on a major. But i also have it on cd too and checked that as well just now.

The 2nd album is good so that label can fuck off for not releasing it.
The official bootleg cdr i have isnt very good quality however thankfully A) there was a better mp3 version around and B) it was bootlegged on vinyl and is good quality.

Lazy zing, my good man. Plus your opinions largely seem to scan with theirs, on this issue at least. :p

Just thought of an absolute thread-winner: Catherine Wheel - Adam And Eve

Stephen > some Unida here http://uk.youtube.com/results?search_query=unida&search_type=

Louis you are joking aren't you?

Why would I be joking? It's an absolutely brilliant record on a major label, and I reckon it qualifies as hard rock.

I fingered through the CDs and outside of anything that mentioned, this is about it. It definitely was not good times for the hard rock and roll band on the big labels. Even if you add in rock on indie labels, it won't get that much better.

Spiritualized - Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating in Space

It's from 97. Definitely not metal, but I liked it though it wouldn't end up on a list of favorites of the last 10 years or anything.

I also liked Jesus Lizards major label album "Shot", which came out in 96. It isn't as good as some of their earlier records, but I still listened to it a bunch.

The first two Gov't Mule albums came out in the mid to late 90s. I never heard them until a few years ago, but they are pretty good old 70s style hard blues rock band.

I suppose this helps to explain why I was buying so much old jazz and electronic music around that time period.

Just thought of an absolute thread-winner: Catherine Wheel - Adam And Eve

Yeah Louis that's a fucking winner, great great album, top 5 or so for that year AT LEAST.

Sadly the manics dont make this list as their later stuff isnt up to much after everything must go. Same goes for Therapy?

Spiritualized,Built To Spill, Modest Mouse would make a non metal list .

how about: Hum - Downward is Heavenward

that was major label... right? definitely their best album. definitely rock music. so so so good.

I have one for every year that I just love! Which is why i brought it up.

Nirvana - Nevermind (1991)
Helmet - Meantime (1992)
The Melvins - Houdini (1993)
Korn - Korn (1994)
Faith No More - King For A Day... Fool For A Lifetime (1995)
Sepultura - Roots (1996)
[Nothing for 1997. This is a terrible year]
Hole - Celebrity Skin (1998)
Deftones - The White Pony (1999)
Queens Of The Stone Age - Rated R (2000)
Burning Brides - Fall Of The Plastic Empire (2001)
Andrew WK - I Get Wet (2002)
Blood Brothers - Burn Piano Island Burn (2003)
Say Anything - Is A Real Boy (2004)
System Of A Down - Hypnotize (2005)
My Chemical Romance - The Black Parade (2006)
Against Me! - New Wave (2007)

I take it Refused were'nt on a major :P

I realized I have an album like that for every year and just started working backwards into a list. Still have to stumble across 2008's big hard rock record tho.

Celebrity Skin > Mechanical Animals > Shape Of Punk To Come

White Pony is very nearly unfuckwithable save for Chino's attempt at rapping/talking his verses on a couple songs.

Whiney, you oughta hear the Hum record from 97 (assuming you haven't). pretty damn good.

as for 2008, it's gotta be Boris' Smile.

How about Pinkerton? I think that's at least a decent record.

Um, what major label is Boris on?

there must be something from 1997 http://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/

Esoteric tops 2008 and thats my fave metal album this year. Portishead is my fave of 2008 so far. That will actually get in some metal lists though(scott walker did with the drift)

oh right, major. sorry. fuck.

(xp)

Hum and Weezer are indie rock tho. This thread is about HARD ROCK

definitely agree with Smile for this year (so far). (xp yeah i guess it's not on a major. damn.)

'97 was kind of a dismal year for music for me. i was just going through the rateyourmusic best-of for that year and it made me wonder what i even listened to that year. some of my favorite groups throughout the 90s released albums in '97 so crappy that i stopped listening to them completely.

Mods should prolly add the word "hard" in the title, cuz it doesn't make it clear.

I mean '97 is all about Chemical Brothers Dig Your Own Hole which is KIND of a hard rock record, but not enought for the purposes of this thread.

Torche would take 2008 easy if a major label was smart enough to have put that album out and made it glossier.

maybe mods should wipe your ass for you too

and the original post doesn't make it clear either

Deftones - Around The Fur was 1997

That album srsly blows except for "My Own Summer" tho

cloud COOOOOME!

"My Own Summer" is hella sweet

I'm gonna listen to it right now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9TyLtbsxmc

one of the best albums of 97 but not on a major
http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/harvey_milk/courtesy_and_good_will_toward_men/

ZZ Top's Rhythmeen, 1996.

There are a number of 2008's discussed in Rolling Hard Rock. A few mainstream country releases this year also do double duty as hard rock records, all released on majors. Offhand, Flynnville Train and Cross Canadian Ragweed come to mind.

By the way, y'all can pre-emptively kiss my ass, because I'm gonna stick up for Disturbed's second album (Believe, 2002) and the new one. The debut and Ten Thousand Fists are kinda weak.

:O

Would Nimrod count? It ain't great, though.

totally love downward is heavenward, but yeah, I don't think that it counts.

I suppose this helps to explain why I was buying so much old jazz and electronic music around that time period.

Same here. Late 90s was a lot closer to the death of rock than the Elvis-in-the-Army -> Beatles era ever was.

http://www.galeon.com/allmusic/caratulas/a/Andrew_WK-I_Get_Wet-Frontal.jpg

I have Downward Is Heavenward too, and yeah it's pretty good. Wish Kerr would stop listing all his favourite artists and being all "now if only they were on a major label they might make this list..."

shut it oceansize fan

are Beggars Banquet a major label, come to think of it?

werent they owned by a major?

There's some sort of connection to a major with them but I can't think what it is. Probably to do with distribution. Which would also mean that McLusky would technically qualify but in practical terms it's not all that relevant

Lots of labels must have a distribution with a major but that doesn't qualify them as being on a major, it might disqualify them from being 100 % independent.

I'll give you Radiohead. Maybe QOTSA, I guess. Aside from that, this is pretty weak sauce. "Lean times," indeed.

Sepultura - Roots (1996)

Stopped reading after that. Besides, since when is Roadrunner a major?

Seriously, it's pretty hard to find a better rock album on a major than A Matter Of Life And Death.

Has anyone mentioned Damone yet? Because their last album was on Interscope, and it was great.

Besides, since when is Roadrunner a major?

Roadrunner is now a subsidiary of Warner Music Group. But at the time Roots came out, it was still an indie AFAIK.

A couple more from 1997:
The Flaming Lips - Zaireeka (Warner Bros.)
Prodigy - Fat of the Land (Maverick/Warner Bros.)

Both were covered in Kerrang actually so do count I suppose.

Shasta OTM re AWK, and I'll hold out for 'Mechanical Animals'

like-minded thread that i just remembered:

hey writer-types, do you ever get any big label rock records that are worth listening to twice?

Slim pickins on that thread, too, when you consider the time-frame imposed by this thread, and screen out the discs listed there that are, in fact, on non-major labels (and were mistakenly listed as having come from "big labels," e.g., TVOTR's discs, which are on 4AD and/or Touch and Go, neither of which is a major (please correct me if I'm mistaken)).

Be Your Own Pet are on Universal, well Ecstatic Peace!, but Universal are at least involved enough to have the best tracks taken off their last album.

I thought HIM's Razorblade Romance was quite good, and that came out on a major.

xpost

Opinions vary, as usual. The Darkness and Flyleaf have been screened out here. Where's Evanescence, too? All of the heavy or hard-and-fast conventional rock bands thrown into the emo category also gone missing. Quite a few of them have been on majors.

1996
Weezer - Pinkerton (DGC)
Local H – As Good As Dead (Island)
The London Suede – Coming Up (Nude/Columbia)
Fluffy – 5 Live (The Enclave/Polygram EP)
Ruth Ruth - Laughing Gallery (American)

1997
Prodigy: The Fat of the Land (Maverick/Warner Bros.)
Everclear – So Much For The Afterglow (Capitol)
The Dandy Warhols – Come Down (Capitol/Tim Kerr)
Night Ranger – Neverland (Legacy/Sony)

1998
Kid Rock – Devil Without A Cause (Atlantic/Lava)
Monster Magnet – Powertrip (A&M)
The Living End – It’s For Your Own Good/Hellbound (Reprise)
Metallica – Garage Inc. (Elektra)
Hole – Celebrity Skin (DGC)
The Hunger – Cinematic Superthug (Universal)
Local H – Pack Up The Cats (Island)
Bloque – Bloque (Luaka Bop/Warner Bros.)

Night Ranger! I loved that band, way back when. I didn't realize they were still around (aside from the nostalgia circuit) in 1997.

1999
Hardknox – Hardknox (Jive/Zomba)
Cyclefly – Generation Sap (Radioactive/Universal)
Boom Boom Satellites – Out Loud (Epic)
Crazy Town – The Gift Of Game (Columbia)

2000
Everclear – Songs From An American Movie: Vol One: Learning How To Smile (Capitol)
Green Day – Warning (Reprise)

(2000 is the worst so far, looks like)

2001
Montgomery Gentry – Carrying On (Columbia)
Kid Rock – Cocky (Lava/Atlantic)
Beautiful Creatures – Beautiful Creatures (Warner Bros.)
Days of the New – Days of the New III (Uptown/Universal)

2002
Montgomery Gentry – My Town (Columbia)
The Donnas – Spend The Night (Atlantic)
Cyclefly – Crave (Radioactive/Universal)

1996
Ruth Ruth - Laughing Gallery (American)

this was '95. their '96 release was an EP on Epitaph that I thought was way way better than the full-length.

btw, fav major label rock album from '97 that may or may not be 'too indie' for this thread's criteria:
Skeleton Key - Fantastic Spikes Through Balloons

2003
Brooks & Dunn- Red Dirt Road (Arista Nashville)
H.I.M. – Razorblade Romance (Universal)

2004
Big & Rich – Horse Of A Different Color (Warner Bros.)
Montgomery Gentry – You Do Your Thing (Columbia)
Courtney Love – America’s Sweetheart (Virgin)
The Mooney Suzuki – Alive & Amplified (Red Ink/Columbia)

2005
Miranda Lambert – Kerosene (Epic)
The Living Things – Ahead Of The Lions (Jive/Zomba)
Shooter Jennings – Put The O Back In Country (Universal South)
Brooks & Dunn – Hillbilly Deluxe (Arista Nashville)
The Rolling Stones – A Bigger Bang (EMI)
The Darkness – One Way Ticket To Hell…And Back (Atlantic)

2006
Montgomery Gentry – Some People Change (Columbia)
Damone – Out Here All Night (Island)
Eric Church – Sinners Like Me (EMI)
Def Leppard – Yeah! (Mercury)
Rammstein – Rosenrot (Universal)

Etc. (And I can already think of a bunch I missed, but never mind. Too tired to do '07 and '08 now.)

can already think of a bunch I missed

Including other Darkness and Shooter Jennings and Rammstein albums, for starters. And, uh, White Stripes.

Bon Jovi -- Lost Highway When it gets to the point the entire album is played as a concert in public television ... not my favorite, but the performances and songs really kick live after a year of performing them.

xp

And hell, Skye Sweetnam's great debut album Noise From the Basement (Capitol, 2004) is basically a pop-metal record, too. As is Ashlee Simpson's great second album I Am Me (Geffen, 2005).

Also ZZ Top Mescalero (RCA, 2003), one of the best rock records of this decade, easy.

Aerosmith's Honkin On Bobo 2004

Also in 2004, Silvertide's Show and Tell Clive Davis' label.

this thread is getting ridiculously far away from HARD ROCK/METAL...

this thread is getting ridiculously inclusive of HONKIN ON BOBO...

Make a new thread and fume about it. You can have a campfire for all the hardmen and the death-to-false-metal philosophy of Manowar.

i would like to start that campfire here, and roast some rock critics in it

death to false s'mores

The Darkness

It's supposed to be good major Label Rock/Metal albums!

The Bronx (island)
The Distillers (sire)
Funeral for a friend (atlantic)

Rammstein – Rosenrot (Universal)

Mutter even more so - good one, forgot they're on a major but of course they are.

Ruth Ruth - Laughing Gallery (American)

Man there was one song on this that they played a bit on rock radio that really kicked ass.....

(not listed already I don't think)
Rammstein-Sehnsucht (Slash, which had major distribution)
Best of King's X (Atlantic)
Danger Zone (Polygram comp)
Third Eye Blind-Blue (something major I'm sure)
Rachid Taha-Made in Medina and Live (Ark 21, major distribution)
Linkin Park-Meteora
Dandy Warhols-Welcome to the Monkey House
Kid Rock s/t
Trail of Dead-Worlds Apart
I'm getting tired.

Do similar lists of major-label rock albums from the 70s and 80s, and compare them to the lists done for this thread. I think they'll prove what was said above: These are lean times. And -- despite my being old -- I'm not one of those "everything was better when I was young" types. I think today's music in many genres is as good, or better, than ever. Just not this genre (if "major-label rock albums" can be considered a genre).

But, as I always add as a qualifier: WTFdoiknow?nothingthatswhat.

You can bet a 60s/70s/80s even early 90s thread would list SHITLOADS more.

I think they'll prove what was said above: These are lean times.

Uh not really, given that the vast majority of the best rock albums (I'd say this would be a near-consensus opinion, not just mine) come out on independent labels, of which there are an astronomical amount compared to any time before the 80s

"These are lean times."

bbbbbbbbbbut if you get away from major labels then things don't look so lean at all! for every major label that sucks there are ten indie labels that don't suck. or suck as much. things have changed. the last five horse johnson album was a great major label rock record! but it's on a tiny stoner rock label and nobody heard it. but it exists. and there are loads more where that came from. it's just that the majors don't wanna throw money at a hundred bands like they used to and see what sticks to the wall. which is sad considering that most of my favorite albums are by bands who were signed to a major for one minute and then cut loose.

yeah, what mencap said.

i guess the last two times that the majors DID throw money at tons of rock bands would have been 90's indie/grunge and then nu-metal. and they got burned when all those bands didn't turn out to be next nirvana/korn/etc.

although there was that garagerock revival thing. that didn't seem to last too long though.

major labels are still signing a shitload of rock bands every year. seemingly mostly grungy hard rock and to a lesser degree emo.

bbbbbbbbbbut if you get away from major labels then things don't look so lean at all! for every major label that sucks there are ten indie labels that don't suck. or suck as much.

Scott, I totally agree (with DJM, too). But the question that began the thread is limited to major-label rock albums, and I limited my post accordingly. Once you include indies, you're right: Things don't look lean at all. In fact, I think at that point, things look pretty healthy and hopeful.

If you're someone who's specifically bummed out by the fact that good and potentially big bands don't get the chance at commercial success, yeah I think 'lean times' is an appropriate phrase. Personally this doesn't usually bother me. But a new band who have designs on being as big as Grand Funk probably shouldn't try and sound like Grand Funk, if you get me

It doesn't really bother me, either, except when I listen to commercial rock radio. But it's still a question worth asking: Why is it that there are so few good major-label rock records nowadays? I think, frankly, that I might just be out-of-touch with what the rock audience wants.

I think that the bridge that existed in the 90s between grassroots indie and more careerist or populist metal and hard rock has just kind of gone away, mainly because most indie bands now either don't rock very hard, or they do so in an extreme, noisy way that has no radio potential. Part of the reason Nirvana blew up was because they rocked hard enough to appeal to Metallica/GNR fans. Other than emo/pop punk bands like My Chemical Romance, I don't know what the last indie band that crossed over to alt rock and active rock radio, since the White Stripes like 5 years ago.

I think that the bridge that existed in the 90s between grassroots indie and more careerist or populist metal and hard rock has just kind of gone away

I imagine plenty of bands would be happy to cross that bridge if major-labels would build it. Why haven't they?

I'd guess it's because they think what's left of the rock record-buying public wants to hear something else.

. . . would (re-)build it.

Part of the reason Nirvana blew up was because they rocked hard enough to appeal to Metallica/GNR fans.

And had the savvy to leave all their nasty weird distorto stuff on the albums and make sure the singles were the ones with hueg hooks (well Geffen probably ensured that but y'know).

People have talked a little about Torche bridging this gap but I've seen no real evidence to indicate that they actually want to.

Is Roadrunner still indie? Because whatever you think of their product, they occupy a huge niche of the mainstream rock/metal market. I mean, there's a lot of crap, but I've gone on record liking records by Soulfly, Theory of a Deadman, Cradle of Filth, and the Resident Evil soundtrack, at least to an extent. Probably as much as I like '70s/'80s major label second stringers like Blue Oyster Cult and Accept. Someone, not me, should write a book about the Roadrunner effect and I will happily check it out from the library, as soon as I'm done reading about Black Liberation Theology.

which should totally be a band name, btw

maybe if max cavalera got together with vernon reid

it's hard to predict the future, but i just can't imagine people someday raving about too many 90's/00's major label obscurities the way i can rave about a zillion forgotten 60's/70's rock bands. but who knows? not to say that there wasn't tons of crud put out in the 70's. there was. but even a lot of the crud often had one moment or two of virtue. will people feel that way about third rate grunge and pop punk and nu-metal someday? will it be at all collectable? so much of it feels so disposable to me. disposable at birth too. not just now.

It only takes one album to change things around (Ex. A: Nevermind). Maybe something from the emerging nu-90s revivalism (e.g., No Age, HEALTH, Abe Vigoda, Times New Viking) will be catchy enough to capture the wider public imagination. (n.1) I'd say this stuff is too noisy and abrasive to do that, but I guess you could have said the same thing about Nirvana just before Smells Like Teen Spirit changed rock radio overnight.

______________________________
(n.1) BTW, isn't this right? Eighties revivalism (nu-Nu Wave) is near-dead. Nineties revivalism (nu-lo-fi/noise) is on the near horizon.

I dunno. Timbaland still seems pretty healthy.

And Scott, I can imagine some 2030 hipster being thrilled to dig up the Another Animal CD and finding something valuable there.

if only the cover...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IZrsi825L._SL500_AA240_.jpg

Why is it that there are so few good major-label rock records nowadays?

Splintering in listener demographics is one contributing reason. The obvious push in marketing consumer goods -- and that's how much of the industry has always viewed their product -- is to precisely identify the tastes of specific niches and pitch narrowcasted groups to them. The Internet and mass communication/marketing has made this easier to do than in the mid-70's.

If you're going to winnow through listeners to find small slices which are profitable, at some point it's not profitable for majors because their overhead is too big. It's left to indies.

However, because making music has elements of serendipity and unpredictable human magic to it, there will always be groups which issue records that stomp all over narrowcast genre lines and wind up being bought by the truckload. When that happens there is a real tendency to dismiss them as not being part of the original genre, of being lesser for some reason. For the sake of this discussion, hard rock and all those groups who don't measure up to the various standards of racial purity/taste.

Whether or not there are many less "good" bands from major labels fluctuates. I recall that in the early Eighties I tended to bemoan the lack of good major label stuff (Jeezus, how could Atlantic screw up Blackfoot?!) in contrast to much of the not infrequently dire homemade punk rock I bought out of boredom and devoted a fanzine too.

At the same time I was buying every NWOBHM record I could get from labels like Neat, Mausoleum, Rondolet and Carrerre (?!). I might have stupidly insisted that Demon's The Unexpected Guest, Samson's Head On or Vardis's 100 MPH were among the top five records of the year.

I think that the bridge that existed in the 90s between grassroots indie and more careerist or populist metal and hard rock has just kind of gone away

I imagine plenty of bands would be happy to cross that bridge if major-labels would build it. Why haven't they?

I'd guess it's because they think what's left of the rock record-buying public wants to hear something else.

-- Daniel, Esq., Monday, July 14, 2008 11:57 AM (42 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

I think it's more like the 90s gold rush was a very particular moment in time, and it's over and can't be brought back. Pre-90s (or mid-80s, maybe), there wasn't an established indie label circuit, so a lot of interesting/weird rock bands ended up at major labels that would never ever get signed today. And then came the 90s gold rush with majors throwing money at a huge variety of alt-rock bands, many of whom invariably had no real commercial potential, but achieved some decent mid-level success anyway. Now there seems to be more of a ritualized system -- I'm sure every time a band gets a big indie buzz some A&Rs come calling, but more often than not that band either declines and stays indie, or they go to a major and sell the same/slightly more than before, or have a fluke hit like Modest Mouse and raise their profile a bit without really crossing over big time. But more often than not, the rock bands getting signed and played on the radio were never on the indie circuit to begin with, never got written up on Pitchfork or even heard of Pitchfork, just go straight to the majors and the summmer festival gigs.

Who were the bands in that "90s gold rush"? You mean Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden and -- to a lesser extent, I guess -- Alice in Chains?

I mean the dozens (hundreds?) of bands that got grabbed up by majors in the wake of those bands from, say, '92 to '96, most of whom didn't get any exposure more notable than a video on 120 Minutes or a spot on a DGC sampler.

this thread is getting ridiculously far away from HARD ROCK/METAL

If you look at the thread title, the word "hard" is not up there. And the thread starts with discussion of a fucking Foo Fighters album, for crissakes -- give or take, like, Radiohead, I don't think there are very many major label acts mentioned on this thread who rock less hard than the Foos do.

Other than emo/pop punk bands like My Chemical Romance, I don't know what the last indie band that crossed over to alt rock and active rock radio, since the White Stripes like 5 years ago

I dunno, Finger Eleven or somebody maybe? Or maybe not. But why would emo/pop-punk bands not count, anyway? I tend to hate them, too, but why would '90s pop-grunge bands be more legit, by definition? (Actually, on some other thread a few months ago -- something to do with how metal and alt and hard rock were supposedly more distinguishable 15 years ago than they are now -- I checked the Billboard charts, and it turns out that there's actually more crossover between commercial alt rock and active rock stations these days than one might think. I guess if you create arbitrary rules like "emo/pop-punk bands don't count" that might overrule the crossover, but I don't know know why you should.)

Or...okay, maybe Finger Eleven were never "indie" in the Pitchfork sense (or maybe any sense, for that matter.) How about the Hives (so far unmentioned on this thread, though they deserve to be, and often really good)? Did they hit before or after White Stripes? (MGMT and Vampire Weekend and Ting Tings are all indie x-overs to commercial alt-rock this year -- and I'm sure there are more -- but I would be surprised if any of them get active rock play.)

yeah, Hives hit at the same time as the Stripes, and only had 3 modern rock hits (2 of which were just barely blips on mainstream/active rock). Finger Eleven and other Wind Up bands aren't really considered indie by anybody.

and I only meant not counting emo and pop punk bands because they kind of fall outside of the hard rock/active rock market as something completely different, usually not charting there unless they're huge on modern (although "Welcome To The Black Parade" seemed to do pretty well on active stations).

I thought the White Stripes were the only one from that "garage-rock revival" class (White Stripes, Hives, Black Rebel Motorcycle Club, maybe The Vines) to get any real rock radio airplay.

(xp)

What about Jet (whose album was actually pretty good, too)? (Or do they also not count, for some reason?)

most of those bands had 1 or 2 hits, then kinda fell off the radar of mainstream radio after 2002, meanwhile White Stripes have continued to have hits pretty consistently since then.

xhuxk define "count" here -- are you talking about the thread's big picture of major label rock bands, or my specific claim about bands who crossed over from indie to mainstream in the past 5 years? because Jet were never on an indie label, at least in the U.S.

I just meant "count as being from the garage-rock revival class that Daniel mentioned." (It might be worth remembering, though, that most of the '90s grunge bands who hit had never done notable earlier stuff on indies either -- Nirvana and Soundgarden and I guess Everclear did, and people who later wound up in Pearl Jam, but Alice in Chains and Stone Temple Pilots sure didn't, not to mention all the bubblegrungers who followed in their wake. So it's always been more an exception than a rule.) (Green Day and Offspring and Rancid were called up from the indie farm clubs later, but the pop-punk bands who followed in their wake genrally were not. So I'm not sure how much has actually changed.)

I dunno, it's hard to pinpoint statistically how much has changed. But I get the feeling that today whoever would have a moderately successful indie debut today, on the level of Smashing Pumpkins or Nirvana or Sound Garden back then, would be a lot less likely to sign to a major and go multi-platinum. It seems like the bands that do well on indies now either stay indie forever, or sign and then get only incrementally more popular without really "blowing up" or crossing over big time. Even a band like Death Cab For Cutie, who went platinum and have been on the Modern Rock top 10 for months now, don't really seem that big to me.

Yeah, I guess they (Jet) were part of that group. I just remember the White Stripes-BRMC-The Hives and maybe The Vines as forming an (evil!) axis for that garage-rock revival class.

But I get the feeling that today whoever would have a moderately successful indie debut today, on the level of Smashing Pumpkins or Nirvana or Sound Garden back then, would be a lot less likely to sign to a major and go multi-platinum.

Maybe 'cause there are new ways to make money in music, e.g., indie bands marketing their songs to TV shows. But I think it goes beyond that: There's a sound that's big on commercial rock-radio this decade (maybe it's a holdover from the late 90s) that doesn't mesh with indie rock (which is either too-mannered or too-noisy in a non nu-metal way, I guesss).

By way of example: I've been casually listening to HEALTH's song, Triceratops, today. It's a cool, noisy song. But that kind of noise, I'd guess, isn't what would wind up on commercial rock radio. There's a certain type of aggression and lyrics and vibe that's in those rock radio songs, and I don't think HEALTH works in that vein. They could reshape the vein, I guess, if one of their songs can break through.

I dunno, it's hard to pinpoint statistically how much has changed. But I get the feeling that today whoever would have a moderately successful indie debut today, on the level of Smashing Pumpkins or Nirvana or Sound Garden back then, would be a lot less likely to sign to a major and go multi-platinum. It seems like the bands that do well on indies now either stay indie forever, or sign and then get only incrementally more popular without really "blowing up" or crossing over big time. Even a band like Death Cab For Cutie, who went platinum and have been on the Modern Rock top 10 for months now, don't really seem that big to me.

-- some dude, Monday, July 14, 2008 12:15 PM (17 minutes ago)

how old are you?

26. why do you ask?

Steve's trying to make me feel old, is all.

How big are Death Cab in the states? Most people dont know them here.

A lot bigger. A band who chart pretty high and get a lot of radio play

porcupine tree's "in absentia" was the first thing that came to mind. On Lava, which was (is?) an Atlantic imprint.

Death Cab are fucking huge now, by any measure I use (which is "any band I used to pay $5 for that I now have to pay almost ten times as much to see, guaranteeing that I will not see them ever again")

are coldplay the biggest rock band in the world right now? as in: record sales, concert sales, etc.

Isn't Radiohead bigger? And U2, for concerts?

I don't think coldplay has hit the U2 level yet, but I think they've probably surpassed Radiohead.

going by wikipedia, x&y by coldplay sold, like, 11 million copies worldwide, and the last U2 album sold about half that. and the new coldplay album looks like it will hit those numbers as well.

their new one is the second fastest selling album in U.K. history! they don't say what the first fastest was.

"The album was highly successful around the world in its first week of release, when it debuted at #1 in 36 countries[22]. In the United Kingdom the album sold 302,000 copies after 3 days of release, making it the second fastest selling album in UK history. It also became the best selling release in iTunes history. In its second week it sold another 198,000 getting a platinum certification for those sales.[23] The album debuted with sales of 41,041[24] in Australia and was certified platinum. In Japan it sold almost 40,000 copies in its first week and a further 40,000 in its second week. In the US the album debuted at #1 with 721,000 copies sold. This almost equals previous album X&Y's first week sales of 737,000.[25]"

if you can sell a million records in a week, you are about as huge as huge gets these days.

WOW! Eye-opening! Depressing!

(not that depressing; Coldplay is bland, but okay sometimes).

i'm no fan, but i thought they actually sounded okay when i saw them on the daily show. i think they played all new stuff and it sounded more interesting to me than their other stuff. still can't really get into whatshisface's voice though.

the fastest selling uk album was Oasis - Be Here Now

Yeah, Coldplay catch too much grief for what they do. The biggest strike against them -- just like with Oasis, BTW -- is that they fancy themselves as the biggest, best band in the world, which is just asking for trouble. OTOH, they are a big band. And rich.

(xp)

people still want that BIG ROCK ALBUM feeling. that anthemic rush. which is why it makes sense that U2 and oasis and coldplay and radiohead are the last really big bands (or of the last decade or whatever). they are BIG ROCK MOMENT holdovers.

Yep. I'm waiting for JOURNEY to re-emerge from the ashes (with Steve Perry).

it's one of the reasons a band like bon jovi could sneak back into the fold. there are job openings for anthem rockers.(and why country fans who are also rock fans make superstars out of anthemic rockers like Rascal Flatts.)

Honestly, I think a few good "anthem" or "stadium" rock bands are good to have around. Without them, we'd have no Mr. Roboto.

(Seriously, being 40 and having grown up in the 80s, I have a soft spot for "anthem rockers," especially ones with that Journey wall-of-harmony vocal sound).

And Puddle Of Mudd and P.O.D. ain't satisfying that need for me, unfortunately.

Actually, Journey did re-emerge from the ashes, exclusively at Wal-Mart, this year. Their last album actually charted very briefly, according to a short piece in the LA Times a few weeks ago. While it won't lift them out of the ag fair circuit, it was still a surprise. Sans Perry though.

I'll go to see them rock the Gulfstream Racetrack! Or the Dade County Youth Fair.

Yep. I'm waiting for JOURNEY to re-emerge from the ashes (with Steve Perry).

Journey's new vocalist is a dude from the Phillipines that they discovered on YouTube, and he is awesome!

The story of their new singer is pretty AWES tho. He out-Perry's Perry FWIW as well.

xp!

He out-Perry's Perry FWIW as well.

Don't toy with my emotions.

as i always like to remind people, steve perry was the THIRD lead vocalist for journey. after gregg rolie and that fleischman dude.

and the new guy is the SIXTH lead vocalist. after some guy i can't remember and journeyman deluxe jeff scott soto.

Dang it, this is now far off-topic but you guys are prompting me to go sample the new Journey disc. If I like it enough, and have to buy it for my iPod, I'll have to post to the GUILTY PLEASURES thread.

and speaking of anthem rock and jeff scott soto, there is a huge underground indie scene for AOR bands. mostly in Germany. not the power metal crowd, but the Axel Rudi Pell crowd. a whole universe of fans who own every album that joe lynn turner was ever involved with. people who own soul sirkus albums! (neal schon and jeff scott soto side-project)

http://www.rock-is-life.com/reviews/img/soulsirkus2.jpg

every album that joe lynn turner was ever involved with:

ICARUS WITCH Songs for the Lost 2007
JLT Second Hand Life 2007
BLACKMORE'S NIGHT Village Lanterne 2006
Single EP The One 2006
Akira Kajiyama and Joe Lynn Turner Fire Without Flame 2006
Vitalij Kuprij Revenge 2006
Usual Suspects JLT 2005
Eddie Ojeda Axes 2 Axes 2005
Iron Maiden Tribute Numbers from The Beast 2005
Michael Schenker Heavy Hitters 2005
Mikhail Men Made in Moscow 2005
Brazen Abbot My Ressurection 2005
Classic Rock Revisited The New Road Ahead Vol 1 2005
Heaven and Earth Heaven and Earth Revised Re-Release 2005
Metallic Attack Metallica The Ultimate Tribute 2004
Karl Cochran's Voodooland Give Me Air 2004
Hughes Turner Project HTP2 2003
Murray Weinstock Tails of the City 2003
Rainbow Catch The Rainbow 2003
Brazen Abbot Guilty As Sin 2003
Mr. Big Tribute Influences and Connections 2003
Joe Lynn Turner JLT 2003
Hughes Turner Project HTP-LIVE IN TOKYO 2002
The Tour Bus Radio Show The Road Trip 2002
Mountain Mystic Fire 2002
Hughes Turner Project HTP 2002
Baron Love Valley 2002
Terry Brock Freedom 2001
Joe Lynn Turner Slam 2001
Queen Tribute Stone Cold Crazy 2001
Joe Lynn Turner Challenge Them All 2001
Rock Ballads WTC Benefit 2001
Nikolo Kotzev Nostradamus 2001
Voices for America Special WTC EP 2001
Aerosmith Tribute Let The Tribute Do The Talking 2001
ACDC Tribute Remixed to Hell 2000
Joe Lynn Turner Holy Man 2000
Various Artists Fire Woman: A Tribute to The Cult 2000
Ozzy Tribute Bat Head's Soup 2000
Van Halen Tribute Tribute to Van Halen 2000 2000
*SPECIAL* Randy Rhoads "Tribute" 1999
Leslie West As Phat as it Gets 1999
Yngwie Malmsteen Inspiration (Bonus CD) 1999
Fandango Best of 1999
Deep Purple Shades 68-98 1999
Joe Lynn Turner UNDER COVER 2 1999
Joe Lynn Turner Waiting for a Girl Like You 1999
Vick LeCar Never Stranded 1998
Stuart Smith Heaven & Earth 1998
Don Johnson Heartbeat 1998
Niji Densetsu Rainbow Tribute 1998
Various Heard It On The Radio 1998
Mothers Army Fire On The Moon 1998
Guitar Compilation Sounds of Wood and Steel 1998
Deep Purple Purplexed 1998
Joe Lynn Turner Hurry Up & Wait 1998
Mojo Brothers Mojo Brothers 1997
AC/DC Tribute Thunderbolt 1997
Brazen Abbot Bad Religion 1997
Joe Lynn Turner Undercover 1997
Mothers Army Planet Earth 1997
Yngwie Malmsteen Inspiration 1996
Toshi Kankawa Toshi Kankawa 1996
Brazen Abbot Eye Of The Storm 1996
Rainbow The Very Best Of 1997
Deep Purple Tribute - Black Night 1995
Joe Lynn Turner Nothing's Changed 1995
Nerds Poultry In Motion 1995
Bloodline Bloodline 1994
Blues Bureau International Cream Of The Crop 1994
Deep Purple Tribute Smoke On The Water 1994
Mothers Army Mothers Army 1993
Yngwie Malmsteen Collection 1992
TNT Unrealized Fantazies 1992
Taylor Dayne Taylor Dayne 1992
Hellcats Hellcats 2 1992
Lita Ford Dangerous Curves 1991
Deep Purple Slaves & Masters 1990
Kathy Troccoli Pure Attraction 1991
Michael Bolton Time, Love and Tenderness 1991
Foundations Forum Compilation '90 Vol. 2 1990
Slyce Slyce 1990
Billy Joel Storm Front 1989
Paul Carrack Groove Approved 1989
Yngwie Malmsteen Trial By Fire Live 1989
Jimmy Barnes Freight Train Heart 1989
Alexa Alexa 1989
Bonnie Tyler Notes From America 1988
TNT Intuition 1988
Don Johnson Let It Roll 1988
Yngwie Malmsteen Odyssey 1988
Bonfire Bonfire 1987
Mick Jones Mick Jones 1987
Lee Arron Lee Arron 1987
John Waite Rovers Return 1987
Cher Cher 1987
Michael Bolton The Hunger 1987
Rainbow Final Vinyl 1986
Joe Lynn Turner Rescue You 1985
Official Soundtrack The Heavenly Kid 1985
Rainbow Bent Out Of Shape 1983
Rainbow Straight Between The Eyes 1982
Rainbow Best of Compilation 1981
Rainbow Difficult To Cure 1981
Fandango Cadillac 1980
Fandango Last Kiss 1979
Fandango One Night Stand 1978
Fandango Fandango 1977

Hahaha. The new guy is like Steve Perry's mini-me! Finally! A good commerical rock album in the Naughties!

"there is a huge underground indie scene for AOR bands. mostly in Germany."

Scott, what kind of fans do these bands have in Germany? Is it the same age group that listened to Journey or say The Scorpions in the 80s or are there younger people into these groups?

Maybe dads and their sons?

I'm actually surprised 1) that they haven't been mentioned on this thread yet, period; and 2) that they weren't mentioned in response to Scott's comment that "there are job openings for anthem rockers": Coheed And Cambria. Their prog reputation is overinflated; their songs are catchy as fuck and sound like 80s AOR/prog (Asia, Triumph) more than 70s bloat-tastic prog (Yes, ELP). Their biggest problem is that their lead singer looks like Sweetums, the Muppet monster, and his voice is too weirdly high to take them into serious commercial territory, but the guy knows how to write a riff and a chorus. They're probably the most unfashionable band on Earth, but I like 'em.

Uh not really, given that the vast majority of the best rock albums (I'd say this would be a near-consensus opinion, not just mine) come out on independent labels...
-- DJ Mencap, Monday, 14 July 2008 15:06 (Yesterday) Link

I think that needs some qualification, particularly with regards to 'best'. The albums that most people liked (ie which sold the most) from hard rock and heavy metal are usually on majors, such as:
Metallica
AC/DC
Led Zeppelin
Guns N Roses
Nickelback
Pantera
Deep Purple
Foo Fighters
Slayer (dodgy, Def American may count as CBS/Warner?)
Thin Lizzy
Iron Maiden
Judas Briest
Black Sabbath
Limp Bizkit
Foo Fighters
Nirvana
FNM
Soundgarden
etc.

Given the number of indie labels there probably are more hard rock & metal releases on them mind.

But Limp Bizkit and Nickelback are hardly examples of Good major label hard rock/metal bands

However, Soundgarden is a perfect example. Superunknown is one of the best rock albums of the '90s. But since it's early '90s, it doesn't really count for this thread, unfortunately.

i was basically going with 1997-2008 as whiney mentioned 1997 originally

the problem with this thread is that the only good one was the colour and the shape and ppl need to just deal with it

haha

I was going to say Sepultura Roots but that's on Roadrunner so I guess it doesn't count...

But Limp Bizkit and Nickelback are hardly examples of Good major label hard rock/metal bands.
-- Herman G. Neuname, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 19:20 (2 days ago) Link

I'm not saying that it's good, just that most people think it is (based on popularity), which is different to what Mencap was saying.

Does Down's NOLA count? It was '95 (iffy) but came out on Elektra. That disc eats pussies like Pearl Jam and Nirvana for breakfast. It's monstrous.

i liked stone temple pilot's 4 album. from 1999. that was a good hard rock record.

i would bring up nine inch nails on here, but i didn't dig the fragile that much and downward spiral is too early for this thread.