TEARS FOR FEARS - SONGS FROM THE BIG CHAIR (1985) POLL

See, I knew the photo I tried to post would fuck up. I knew it.

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn306/Floridian_20/TearsForFears-SongsFromTheBigChair.jpg

http://www.onlyolivia.com/music/albums/data/dontstop.jpg

Hahahahhahahhahah you know me too well Mr. Yuro!

Ok I'm gonna have to revisit this one. I think I was pretty overwhelmed by it in my naive youth. Perhaps I had a relatively sheltered musical upbringing but I seem to recall thinking it was the one of most bombastic and detailed things I had ever heard. Now I can't even remember half of the tracks.

I only bought this a couple of years, although, of course, I grew up with the the four singles. Some of the album tracks are surprising: the Bo Diddley-beat interlude in "The Working Hour," fer instance. Still voted for "Head Over Heels" over "Everybody Wants to Rule The World." That chorus! The opening keyboards!

Alfred posted. OMG, I'm saved. If I could just find that libcrypt, though.

Alfred, I still remember Twist of Fate, though, I do still have that. Also I'm very close downloading this Daryl Hall album...whatever that is they mentioned on the Eno thread. I've almost got all of that, now.

I just relistened to it, after 20-odd years, and I'm afraid I was unimpressed. Another childhood illusion shattered. Shout and Everybody and Head over Heels are still great 80s pop songs - still get a shiver from the intro of the latter - but the rest is distinctly self-indulgent. Mothers Talk is just a bit of a mess, Broken really does sound like the work of someone with an over-inflated ego (and why the live reprise at the end of Head over Heels?), and Listen was just embarrassing.

Took me years to realize 'The Hurting' is a better record. I'll vote 'Head over Heels' here, if not for the cheesy library video alone.

"The Hurting" is way better IMO. My pick here is "Head Over Heels", just ahead of the two more famous hits.

I have no idea If I'm picking Head Over Heels or Shout here. I love both songs so much for very different reasons.

"Head Over Heels" and "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" are so great.

Head Over Heels

EWTRTW over HOH

EWTRTW slightly over Shout. Both great pop songs. Head Over Heels is good, too (not as good as the Go-Go's song of the same name, but good). The rest, meh.

obviously yes the hurting is the better album (it's the only great album they ever made actually) but this is pretty classic in another way altogether, in the sense that 'so' was classic and lots of other 80's albums were; they were kind of challenging and HUGELY popular. anyway "head over heels" gets my vote since I was in a lip synch competition at school in sixth grade (maybe seventh?) and we did this.

SHOUT = so very clearly an influence on ...MASSES era depeche it hurts. especially NEVER LET ME DOWN AGAIN.

Everybody Wants To Rule The World never loses its magic. Ever. I don't know why.

Listen

No way is this album any worse than The Hurting. They never made one remotely perfect album, and, anyway, they were made for arena synth-pop, not the miserabilist kind.

Yeah fucking Hurting. I should bloody well listen to that one again. I've got it right here on my iPod.

Also fucking Curtis is right. I still don't have the Chameleons Tony Fletcher CD ripped, but never mind.

The Working Hour has always been a personal favorite. What a great record.

This thread seem to die a little early (and I admit I got pretty off topic, but damn that Timi Yuro didn't help matters :)) so I'm gonna give it a bump to help it out a little.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Still voted for "Head Over Heels" over "Everybody Wants to Rule The World." That chorus! The opening keyboards!

Alfred remains my proxy in all things.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Woohooahh! Head Over Heels nearly in a landslide! I didn't see that one coming at all! Twice as much as Everybody...wow. ILMers have spoken. I love it.

Surprising but nice.

Now I hope "The Hurting" is next up?

SHOUT = so very clearly an influence on ...MASSES era depeche it hurts. especially NEVER LET ME DOWN AGAIN.

yah both are produced by david bascombe. dm used him for "masses" because they loved his worok on "big chair" (i think they said as much in reissue notes)

Which was quite pointless, as Depeche Mode had always been much better than Tears For Fears. Even when Tears For Fears were at their very best, as on "The Hurting" (which is a much better album than "Songs From The Big Chair"). Frankly, Depeche Mode might have benefited musically from continuing to have Daniel Miller as their producer on every album. They have been great afterwards too (partly except for "Songs Of Faith And Devotion" and "Music From The Masses" - their two least synthpop'y albums), but not as great as they were in the Daniel Miller era during the 80s.

http://softporal.ucoz.ru/Music/DepecheMode-Wrong.jpg

in fact 5:07 into 'mother's talk' sounds *just like* the intro to 'never let me down again'. i'm starting to realise how our man Bascombe was much more massively key to the succes of DM The American Arena Years. the drum machines on Big Chair are basically *the same ones* as on Music For The Masses.

How do I know I didn't vote in this poll?
6. Broken – 0

Between the searching and the need to work it out
I stopped believing everything will be alright

I love the crazy fucking siren guitar, too! The whole song sounds like a really polite & clean mental breakdown.

And in that way I see the song as an extension of their stuff on "The Hurting" moreso than any other song on this album though.

This album is fucking great BTW! I love both of them all the way through.

Save The Robot once wrote that Donnie Darko makes Head Over Heels seem like the greatest song of the 80s.

I remember being taunted by a guy on my Little League team when I told him my sister had bought this record for me for my birthday. Can't remember what he said exactly but it was something along the lines of "faggot shit." Mind you, we were twelve...

If I'd voted in this poll when it happened, I more than likely would have voted 'The Working Hour'. Listening to it right this very moment, however, 'I Believe' is really really doing it for me.

"The Working Hour" is a really odd track for a big-selling album, don't you think?

It's always been a huge favourite of mine... the way it introduces itself with the saxophone and keyboards, then the programmed rhythm arrives and that big, powerful sounding piano.

You're kinda right in a way, for a big selling album this really only has three obvious singles on it: 'Shout', 'Everybody Wants To Rule The World' and 'Head Over Heels', although I think 'Head Over Heels' loses something when taken in isolation, and it's best heard as part of the 'Broken'/'Head Over Heels'/'Broken (Live)' suite on the album.

'Mothers Talk' and 'I Believe' were both released as singles, and even though I like 'Mothers Talk' (that BIG drum sound) and I *LOVE* 'I Believe', I wouldn't have had either down as contenders to be released as singles. 'Broken' and 'Listen' could never have been singles in a million years.

The best parts of 'The Working Hour' for me are the build in the intro and the sheer power of the "find out... find out..." outro, rather than the actual SONG itself. I feel that editing it down would have proved to be a bit of a headache, and it would have been necessary to do so if they were going to put it out as a single. I definitely think it would lose something if those parts were fucked with in any way!!

In fact, I think I remember a review of a reissue of Songs From The Big Chair which described 'The Working Hour' as "over-inflated rot"... christ, no! Every single part of that song has a purpose!

Agreed. Even better, I had the UK cassette which had a bunch of bonus tracks including this version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4G6XYm8hoc

Thanks for that, I hadn't heard that version before! :D

The part of "The Working Hour" where the band does the Bo Diddley riff/rhythm = wow.

"Working Hour" might seem an outlier, but it underscores the innate proggy-ness of a lot of this stuff. If anything, it's a much better job of prog as pop than anything Genesis did in the '80s, save perhaps bits of "Invisible Touch." ("Broken" is a total "Invisible Touch" song.) I remember reading an interview with the drummer on this, Manny Elias, and he readily admitted copping all sorts of Collins stuff.

Everybody Wants To Rule The World is one of the greatest singles of all time

'Everybody Wants To Rule The World' is such a great single, it got to #2 in the UK chart. Then, a year later, it was re-released as 'Everybody Wants To Run The World' as a charity single and got to #5. Both versions of the song re-entered the UK chart for a second time after they'd dropped out. Of course, 'Everybody Wants To Rule The World' was also an American #1.

During the early summer of '85 a brief window in the American charts allowed this and Paul Young's take on "Every Time You Go Away" to both hit #1; it was a flash of something ruminative and self-evaluating done at a Sirk-esque devotion to surfaces and decor.

The album itself had EXACTLY the same highest chart positions as 'Everybody Wants To Rule The World', funnily enough. #1 in the US, #2 in the UK. Both The Hurting and The Seeds Of Love made it to #1 in the UK, whereas Songs From The Big Chair didn't.

and neither of those albums hit #1 in the States. C'est la guerre...

It was held off the UK #1 spot by No Jacket Required, so I've just discovered. Ah well...

http://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/9da1aac3899034701b5f117e08b2c172/tumblr_n0uo6szY3R1rjggr6o1_500.png

Jeez, no votes for "Mothers Talk"? At one point that was just barely behind "Shout" for me.

Nothing screams "this is a record made in 1984-1985" quite like the production job on 'Mother's Talk'.

Nothing screams 80s Genesis like "Mother's Talk."

Be that as it may, I still dig it. There's a at least half a dozen versions, too:

LP version
7" version
12" extended version
Beat Of The Drum mix
US remix
Alt US remix

I like this song and Genesis!

so did TFF lose fans for recording such a brazen arena move? It could've gone so wrong – it could have been Once Upon a Time.

Good question. I was a fan of "The Hurting" and loved SFTBC. I don't think fans felt it was as blatant a stadium move as Simple Minds. I was rather shocked at TFF's success in America. It's much more complex and lyrically daring than the top 40 of the time.

That "Everybody Rules the World" took off doesn't surprise me. Even now the band mixed the thing so that it jumps out of the speakers AND sounds nothing like ruled the charts in spring and summer '85.

In interviews, Roland has made it clear they aspired to chart success but not at the cost of their artistic souls.

Everybody Wants To Rule The World is one of the greatest singles of all time

― Master of Treacle, Monday, September 17, 2012 5:48 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the first four songs even

instrumental of Everybody Wants to Rule the World is a balearic jam for the ages:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1dH5DUiZhg

BOX!

http://media.spincds.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/265x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/t/e/tears.jpg

DISC 1: Songs From The Big Chair
1. “Shout”
2. “The Working Hour”
3. “Everybody Wants To Rule The World”
4. “Mothers Talk”
5. “I Believe”
6. “Broken”
7. “Head Over Heels”
8. “Listen”
Bonus tracks:
9. “The Big Chair”
10. “Empire Building”
11. “The Marauders”
12. “Broken Revisited”
13. “The Conflict”
14. “The Working Hour” (Piano Version)
15. “Pharaohs”
16. “When In Love With A Blind Man”
17. “Sea Song”

DISC 2: Edited Songs From The Big Chair
1. “The Way You Are”
2. “Mothers Talk” (Single Version)
3. “Shout” (Single Version)
4. “Everybody Wants To Rule The World” (Single Version)
5. “Head Over Heels” (Remix)
6. “I Believe” (A Soulful Re-Recording)
7. “Everybody Wants To Run The World”
8. “The Way You Are” (Short Version)
9. “Mothers Talk: (U.S. Remix)
10. “Shout” (U.S. Single Version)
11. “Everybody Wants To Run The World” (Running Version)
12. “Head Over Heels” (Radio Version)
13. “Mothers Talk” (Video Version)
14. “Shout” (Short Version)
15. “Listen” (Clean Intro)
15. Interview With Curt & Roland

DISC 3: Remixed Songs From The Big Chair
1. “The Way You Are: (Extended Version)
2. “Mothers Talk” (Extended Version)
3. “Shout” (Extended Remix Version)
4. “Everybody Wants To Rule The World” (Extended Version)
5. “Broken/Head Over Heels/Broken” (Preacher Mix)
6. “Mothers Talk” (Beat Of The Drum Mix)
7. “Shout” (U.S. Remix)
8. “Everybody Wants To Rule The World” (Urban Mix)
9. “Mothers Talk” (U.S. Remix Alternate)
10. “Shout” (Dub)
11. “Everybody Wants To Rule The World” (Instrumental)
12. “Shout” (A cappella)

DISC 4: Unreleased Songs From The Big Chair
1. “Head Over Heels” (Richard Skinner Session)
2. “The Working Hour” (Richard Skinner Session)
3. “Broken” (Richard Skinner Session)
4. “Mothers Talk” (Live At Massey Hall)
5. “Broken/Head Over Heels” (Live At Massey Hall)
6. “Memories Fade” (Live At Massey Hall)
7. “The Working Hour” (Live At Massey Hall)
8. “Everybody Wants To Rule The World” (Live At Massey Hall)
9. “Shout” (Live At Massey Hall)
10. “Mothers Talk” (Early Mix/Instrumental)
11. “The Way You Are” (Early Mix)
12. “Broken” (Early Mix)
13. “Shout” (Early Mix)
14. “Everybody Wants To Rule The World” (Alternate Single Version)

DISC 5: DVD-A
5.1 and Stereo Mix
1. “Shout”
2. “The Working Hour”
3. “Everybody Wants To Rule The World”
4. “Mothers Talk”
5. “I Believe”
6. “Broken”
7. “Head Over Heels”
8. “Listen”

DISC 6: DVD
Documentary:
1. Scenes From The Big Chair – Documentary
2. Interview With Producer Chris Hughes
Promos:
3. “The Way You Are” (Music Video)
4. “Mothers Talk” (Alternative UK Video)
5. “Mothers Talk” (Music Video)
6. “Shout” (Music Video)
7. “Everybody Wants To Rule The World” (Music Video)
8. “Head Over Heels” (Music Video)
9. “I Believe” (Music Video)
10. “Mothers Talk” (Music Video)
11. “Everybody Wants To Run The World” (Music Video)
BBC TV appearances:
12. “The Way You Are” (Top of the Pops)
13. “Mothers Talk” (Top of the Pops)
14. “Mothers Talk” (Top of the Pops)
15. “Shout” (Top of the Pops)
16. “Everybody Wants To Rule The World” (Wogan)
17. “Everybody Wants To Rule The World” (Top of the Pops)
18. “Everybody Wants To Rule The World” (Top of the Pops)
19. “The Working Hour” (Wogan)

fuck that.

Spin has it for around £35, I don't know if that's accurate but they're not usually wrong.

Man, that's a lot of versions of "Shout".

A whole CD of edits of songs off the album. And then the supposed 'unreleased' songs are just live or session versions of songs off the album.

the 2 CD deluxe version is on Spotify.

and the docu is here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJiLCZh4gZc

14. “Everybody Wants To Rule The World” (Alternate Single Version)

This is so weird to hear after 30 years of hearing it without all the extra stuff plastered all over it.

This is pretty cool. Roland appears to have spent much more time in the sun than me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4_mMl0B5mA

They sound great.

Brad, get in here.

Orzabal's voice hasn't diminished a single bit.

All this hullabaloo and no mention of the 10th anniversary of "Everybody Loves A Happy Ending".

Finished listening to the box. I couldn't do it all consecutively, though, that would've been too much.

I love the expanded album on disc 1, I bought the limited UK cassette when it came out and played it daily for a year and a half. The edits and mixes are alright, though I hate the "Urban Mix" of Everybody - it just adds pointless sax noodling. In the end I concluded that the album versions were definitive though I have a soft spot for the UK extended Shout.

The best bits are the unreleased stuff on disc 4. Interesting radio versions start it off, followed by some nice live takes. Everybody Wants is played like that stupid Urban Mix, though! Shout has almost metallic guitars and also silly sax bits added. The early mixes are interesting - The Way You Are has completely different lyrics and Shout is a bit flaccid, always cool the recognize how much a good producer adds.

Overall I'm glad I have this but it'll be years before I listen to this again.

One day it will be cheap in Fopp.

And then I will.. be in some other town and miss it as I get to fopp about once every 6 months thesedays,

Whats the SW remix of the album like?

I didn't listen to the 'new' stereo mix or the 5.1 mix. Honestly, not sure if I ever will, those are wasted on me.

I got the "Deluxe version" i.e. 2CD

CD1 is great, the album itself with a few added things

The CD2 is odd, the booklet has the tracklistings for CD1 and 2 from the box set, but the correct tracklistings are on the box etc.

I basically have to say: Boy, aren't the 12" versions of "Mothers Talk" and "Shout" awful?

Most of them seem to be on CD3 of the box, but.

It still surprises me that they managed to get a 6 disc set out of this album.

I mean, this band have never really been renowned for recording a lot of music, have they?!

Brad, get in here.

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, December 3, 2014 7:30 PM (two years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sorry alfred of three years ago

Re-reading McBoing-Boing's post above reminded me of the existence of 'The Way You Are', that interim single that the band absolutely hate. It's not too difficult to hear why - one of my least favourite things TFF did during the original run with Curt.

Hah! I've always had a soft spot for it, it's so much a transitional sounds with some of The Hurting and some of the Big Chair vibe, but clearly not achieving the success of either.

As time goes by, I become more solidified in my opinion that "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" is the greatest song ever written. This song never fails to give me that rush, it's completely perfect

It really amazes me how "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" over the years has totally eclipsed "Shout" as the signature song from this album, if not TFF's signature song, period. At the time I remember "Shout" being more popular, although they were both #1 hits in the US and Canada. They wanted the first single ("Shout") to a grand, statement-making song ("hey, we're back!") which is the kind of thing that isn't really relevant thirty years later once everybody already knows all their hits. "Everybody" is a lot easier to digest, so to speak.

Surprising how badly I Believe did in this poll.

Just as odd as it is to think of "Purple Rain" as inspired by Prince seeing a Bob Seger concert, I see to recall that this album was partly inspired by TFF catching Springsteen live and wanting to make something just as anthemic.

"Everybody" was the first single in America xpost

"Everybody" is probly their worst song ever and people are crazy

and i miss you Bimble, peace

"Everybody" was the first single in America xpost

Shout suffered as a song because everybody I knew changed the chorus lyrics to "shout, shout/gets the stains out/gets out the stains you can do without/come on, the laundry won't do/itself"

:D :D :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdEPYEfPfig

hi

i can't believe only three people voted for shout

i know, wtf?

let it all out, guys

lol what austinb said

what's the general consensus re best tff album

feel like ppl are generally split between this and the hurting

i think big chair is literally perfect but i like the seeds of love more if that makes any sense

i've only heard elemental, sowing, raoul and this - when i get some money gonna plunk down on hurting.

feels good to see the tff revival here, when i was growing up in the 90s i felt weird about liking them as everyone else was into whatever else was cool like salt n pepa, tlc etc

(which are cool ofc)

sad but not surprised that nobody voted for Mothers Talk. the three singles really do tower over this album, even though MT, The Working Hour, and I Believe are all fantastic too

i'm sure i voted for 'head over heels' and would probably do so again, but man 'everybody wants to rule the world' is just perfect

i hate that noodle vague and i will have to fite about it, but so it goes

sad but not surprised that nobody voted for Mothers Talk. the three singles really do tower over this album, even though MT, The Working Hour, and I Believe are all fantastic too

― paul mccartney & whinge (voodoo chili), Tuesday, June 19, 2018 3:12 PM (one month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

'Mothers Talk' was a single! 'I Believe' was released as a single, too.

right, but I Believe was never released in the US and Mothers' Talk was a moderate hit, while the three big songs spent weeks upon weeks in the top 5 (or at #1 in the case of Shout and Everybody Wants to Rule the World)

i'm sure i voted for 'head over heels' and would probably do so again, but man 'everybody wants to rule the world' is just perfect

Same.

^^yes

This is fun...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsjhSm4YCfw

thanks, i enjoyed the hell out of that.

Bbc Classic Albums documentary this Friday! First new episode of Classic Albums for a while.

https://www.superdeluxeedition.com/news/tears-for-fears-celebrate-35-years-of-songs-with-classic-album-doc/

^ Will have to find that somewhere.

Sometimes this seems like the best record I liked as a 9-year-old. The tracks receiving no votes definitely feel like the least best, but I dig them all.

I'm old enough to remember when this came out. "Shout" was the first single and it sounded very cool to me at the time, not like anything else on the radio. Nowadays I'd go for "Everyone Wants to Rule the World", which has somehow managed not to become overplayed.

All of the singles on this album rank among the best songs ever written.

I like everything on this album, and especially in context. Never have a problem just throwing it on start to finish.

DJP extremely OTM

sometimes i think Head Over Heels is the absolute pinnacle of '80s new wave pop music

Listen is almost 7 minutes long and still seems far too short

Really, the entire second side of this album is perfect

"Shout" was the first single and it sounded very cool to me at the time, not like anything else on the radio. Nowadays I'd go for "Everyone Wants to Rule the World", which has somehow managed not to become overplayed.

My experience is the opposite - "EWTRTW" is way way overplayed and "Shout" still retains its primal power.

Also note that "Mothers Talk" was the first single released in August 1984 and it caused a sensation at my college radio station. TFF were still quite underground in the US at the time, I viewed their stadium climb with bemusement.

I remember them suddenly bursting fully-formed into the US pop scene with "Everybody Wants To Rule The World" and knowing they had a previous album but not knowing much about it at the time; decades later, when I went back to The Hurting, I discovered I already knew half the songs on it (I have conscious memory of my first encounter with "Mad World" but I knew "Pale Shelter" and "Change" almost by heart and never knew they were Tears For Fears songs until some time in the 00s, the first time I played the album).

Then it got that single remix in spring 1986.

xpost

I don't think I knew they had a previous album until I saw some live broadcast of a Knebworth concert, when they played "Change."

When the album hit "Change" I actually shouted "WAIT THAT WAS THEM??? I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR THIS SONG FOR YEARS"

I place SFTBC in the category of Big British Summer Crossover Album, as [Dare/i] did in 1982 and So would in 1986

I enjoyed that, it really is one of the most 'classic album-y' docs I've seen for a while, it has nearly all the hallmarks.

What a wonderful documentary. I'm not sure what it did differently from many of the others, but at least tonight it felt like one of the better ones. Not just nuts and bolts and pulling away the curtain, but telling a good story. And I never would have guessed that the album was so influenced by Talking Heads, let alone Ryuichi Sakamoto or Robert Wyatt. And never knew (or noticed) that Chris Hughes was "Merrick," the drummer/producer for Adam and the Ants. Good (er) talking heads, too. Sylvie Simmons and even the dude from Disturbed.

aaaaa i NEED to SEE this

It can be found easily if you f/w torrents

I was thinking wow Roland Beelzebub is looking quite old all of a sudden then a friend pointed out that he lost his wife suddenly a couple of years ago, poor guy :(

thank u for putting me on the path maresnest

it's on YouTube.

watching now while air drumming to "The Working Hour."

No mention of The Way You Are, oddly, a very definite nod to Japan and stepping stone between the first two records, perhaps they just didn't have time to fit it in.

boy, Roland and Curt always boasted regrettable hair, eh

they were among the few 80s stars who had even worse hair in the 00s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9Z1zZkSpQk

I never would have guessed that the album was so influenced by Talking Heads, let alone Ryuichi Sakamoto or Robert Wyatt

'i believe' proudly wears the wyatt influence on its sleeves imo.

omigod just heard Oleta Adams' live version of "I Believe."

I never get tired of the Oleta Adams story. Just think about that, a huge pop band hears a singer in a lounge in Kansas, then has her not only sing lead on the first song on the next album, but more or less get a solo showcase to open the subsequent tour.

'i believe' proudly wears the wyatt influence on its sleeves imo.

Absolutely. I just never made the connection, honestly, given I always listened to this album in a different context.

I love the tales of collaboration in the doc, who contributed or encouraged what. Songs that would have been discarded or ignored had someone not stepped in, often independently, with a good idea.

"Sea Song" is one of the B-sides iirc

Despite 'Sea Song', I never made the connection either, I don't really hear much of Wyatt in the vocal, unlike the producers.

I think the chunky knitwear is a bigger crime than the hair, it's almost its own genre.

Also, Roland (and others in the doc) OTM that one reason the album has stood the test of time, despite being so "'80s," is the depth of his lyrics. As he says, it's pretty remarkable that at 57 he isn't embarrassed singing songs written by his 20-year old self 35 (!) years earlier.

The use of grand piano + synths was striking at the time too, and the sax solos aren't grueling.

wold love a Seeds of Love doc too tbh

the production on this album is pretty absurd in the best sense, you could tell they just went in and wanted to make it sound expansive and ocean deep.

The intro to the album version of "Mother's Talk has always sounded to me as if TFF were mimicking a Trevor Horn production.

I remember in the liner notes to the deluxe edition they mention Steely Dan being an influence. I can’t really hear it, apart from maybe a comparable yearning in the vocals. And maybe “everybody wants to rule the world” was influenced a little by “I.G.Y.”?

not that influences have to be necessarily audible/perceivable

it’s funny how Depeche Mode were like “um we need to sound like this NOW” and got the same producer to make music for the masses

They always seem to ignore a track in these documentaries. Poor "Broken". The way it book-ends and extends "HOH" (and binds the whole of side two together) is a little bit brilliant in context, IMHO.

I was thinking wow Roland Beelzebub is looking quite old all of a sudden then a friend pointed out that he lost his wife suddenly a couple of years ago, poor guy :(

Yeah, sometime around late July of 2017, as far as I can remember? But don't worry, he's found a new love in a young woman named Emily and they're ENGAGED!

Back to the topic of this discussion, I'm glad a lot of y'all caught the Classic Albums episode. I've been meaning to catch the uploads of it available online but am suffering from a severe case of "too much to watch and too little time to watch it all"-itis right now and cannot watch it in its entirety yet, but the intro looked super promising. The fan community has been abuzz about them omitting Manny Elias from the discussion while also including Ian Stanley, and it was nice that they included Oleta Adams.

BTW, "Mothers Talk" is insanely good and I don't get why it didn't get any votes in the original poll.

Why wouldn't Ian Stanley be there? He co wrote almost every song, and played on every track.

Manny Elias missing is a better question. Sounds like the drums were a mixture of programmed and real playing, but the documentary (misleadingly?) implied Chris Hughes did a lot of the playing himself.

Oleta Adams looked fabulous.

Where is this doc? I can’t find it online.

It was this one if that helps:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000f8xc

Not on iPlayer anymore but you might be able to find a torrent

If you'd just asked two weeks ago it'd still be on iplayer!

I've found a torrent link for it so you should be able to get it

I have long been a stan for this hammered dulcimer version of EWTRTW - something about it really brings out the sweetness of the melody. I love when he hits that tuning peg like a metronome too. There's also a version where Curt Smith came to his house and sang over it, but I like it as an instrumental better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6QOr-oCTwU

That's great

They're pretty lax with the DVDs of these things; the Amy Winehouse one was first broadcast years back and there's no sign of a release. Still haven't seen it, gah.

xp Yeah there are torents knoking about of the Big Chair one.

that little extra bit at

say that you'll never, never, never, never need it
one headline, why believe it?

is fucking incredible

Scenes From The Big Chair

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlDHIfe7Uuc

first time I listened to this album I was stoned to the bone and had only heard the edited version of "Shout", I had no idea it was 6 1/2 minutes long and just repeats the chorus forever at the end, I thought I was experiencing some weird time dilation effect

"The Working Hour," y'all.

no

that little organ bit in shout is so good

otm, as usual

https://i.postimg.cc/NjKSFPv5/jbouie.jpg

Otm

ok but which song do we think is the fourth song that he’s talking about? “working hour” or “mothers talk”?

I'm assuming "Mothers Talk," as "Working Hour" wasn't a single.

agreed, although i very much doubt he knows/cares about which songs were released as singles

XXP - I Believe, maybe?

Perfect album. Sometimes when I am on a long car trip (like just last week) I throw this one on, because I know I don't need to skip anything and can also measure my progress by the duration of the album.

the sheer grandiosity of this album is really what sets it apart, there's a huge undercurrent of "yeah we know this rules" throughout all of it.

To record this after The Hurting -- well.

were people really dissing the sweaters upthread

One of my essential albums. "The Working Hour" is majestic.

agreed, although i very much doubt he knows/cares about which songs were released as singles

I had an entire spiel about this assumption that I had to delete because I didn’t realize Jamelle Bouie was under 40

haha same

It's wild to think about how unknown these guys were at the time. I got into them as the 12"s started coming out in Fall 1984 and got played on my college radio station. They were my friends and my little secret and then they EXPLODED and the album is now seen as an 80s classic.

Oh, good, I was gonna ask: how did fans respond to Big Chair after The Hurting's smaller scale synth experiments? Seems like TFF were big enough that The Hurting got to #73 on the album chart.

There's a whole parallel world that believes these guys are sort of ur-'80s synth-pop kitsch.

There are that too. They contain multi-dudes.

I remember one time watching the video for "Everybody..." at some point in spring 1985 and there was some pre-Pop-Up crawl that ran at the bottom of it -- no idea if this was on MTV itself or not, but likely not as we didn't regularly have it until later that year -- saying that they had an earlier album and that it had sold a lot around Los Angeles in particular. Time and context told me that this had to have been a massive KROQ album in 1983, which absolutely makes sense; I'm guessing maybe something similar happened in NYC with WDRE? Or maybe it didn't? Either way, that told me that essentially there was some backstory but that it was very specific over here.

Also a casual Wikipedia look at the album entry reminded me more of the role of this guy during their imperial phase and all, which makes me think of Adrian Utley in a similar sense for Portishead:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stanley

There's a whole parallel world that believes these guys are sort of ur-'80s synth-pop kitsch.

I remember a millennial friend instinctively scoffing at them. I played her "The Working Hour" and she was like "HOLY SHIT!"

I didn't buy Big Chair until several years past its peak and, yeah, it was "The Working Hour" -- they way it shot and burst like beautiful fireworks -- that stood out even after I'd known "Shout," "Sowing the Seeds of Love," etc.

I'd suggest that in some ways they're like a cross between Talk Talk and Duran Duran if Talk Talk itself wasn't for a time a cross between Talk Talk and Duran Duran. Def. a lot in common with Colour of Spring, though of course by then Hollis had much less interest in or inclination towards hits, unlike Curt and Roland.

Head Over Heels is a perfect song and has haunted me for 40 years

based on the audience at the end of the live track I'd assumed they were pretty big by the time this album came out, though who knows maybe that applause is from somewhere else?

It's wild to think about how unknown these guys were at the time.

Unknown where? They were scoring hit singles in Europe from 1982 onwards.

I've always loved that two guys born in the same hospital as me recorded a world-conquering album in a village a few miles outside my town

y'all, The Hurting was #1 in England and scored a couple top five hits -- unknown they weren'et.

*weren't

When I finally heard The Hurting, I realized I already knew all the singles but didn’t know them as Tears of Fears songs

growing up I knew Shout, Everybody Wants to Rule the World, and Head over Heels but didn't know they were all by the same band, thought it was 3 separate one hit wonders actually

The interim single between the first two records 'The Way You Are' is seen as a bit of a misstep by the band, but I've always been quite fond of it, I enjoy the bits where they strive to sound a little like Japan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY3CBCyK49s

It appeared on several '80s comps 30 years ago. I loke it too.

growing up I knew Shout, Everybody Wants to Rule the World, and Head over Heels but didn't know they were all by the same band, thought it was 3 separate one hit wonders actually

One of my favorite things when I first started buying CDs as a kid was stumbling across stuff like this, “ohhhhh they did this song too!!”

They were absolutely unknown outside of college radio and late night radio shows in Boston in 1984. We all know that many bands who conquered the UK couldn't get arrested in America.

I forget how good a guitarist Orzabal is whenever I see live clips of him playing the first solo in "Everybody Rules the World" and all over the place on other tracks.

I brought that song to my guitar teacher once, and he could totally tell the second solo was the one played by a pro, lol. Still good, though!

pretty sure the first time i remember hearing Shout it was a cover version by Weird Al as part of the Polka Party medley and to this day sometimes in my mind at some point in the song i'm ready to start singing Papa Don't Preach.

When I finally heard The Hurting, I realized I already knew all the singles but didn’t know them as Tears of Fears songs

I had that experience with "Mad World," which I knew from college radio. When Songs From the Big Chair hit it took me a while to clock that they were the guys who did the "I find it kind of funny, I find it kind of sad" song.

Three songs on KROQ's 1983 year-end tally. "Mad World" in the top five:

https://rocklists.com/kroq-1983.html

The second solo in "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" is showier but Orzabal's solo is the one that transports me. He's a great guitarist

The three big singles are supreme. My favorite atm being Head over Heels, but Everybody Wants to Rule the World is so quintessential to the decade in my mind. I have gotten bored/annoyed by many big hits in my life but this one still works for me 4 decades later. I can’t think of many mainstream hits that have this sort of infinite shelf life for me.

The rest of the album is really good too. I think the only track I don’t care about is “Listen” but it’s not terrible.

I love "Listen" not least as a kind of chaser/statement/palate cleanser, especially after the "Broken" encore. But you're right about the singles, they really transcend the trappings of the times.

lol
listening to the “Urban Mix” of EWTRTW wondering what is so different and then at about 2:36 someone starts going crazy on the drum presets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfIZivD4n_w

An awful example of mid-00s remixes. At least it had a name other than "12 inch mix".

But you're right about the singles, they really transcend the trappings of the times.

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, February 25, 2026 9:18 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

they transcend the trappings of the times but are also the ur-example of what the best of what the trends of that time could produce, if you know what i mean

that's exactly right

An awful example of mid-00s remixes. At least it had a name other than "12 inch mix".

it’s from 1985!

I find it kind of sad.

anyways the B sides from big chair are great. some of them sound like they inspired Disco Inferno (the band)

Apologies, I mistyped.

I know the basic 7 track album is just about perfect as is but I had the extended cassette with this tracklisting on side 2:

B1 The Big Chair
B2 Empire Building
B3 The Marauders
B4 Broken Revisited
B5 The Conflict
B6 The Working Hour (Piano Version)

It's almost like an experimental ambient alternate reality TFF.

No doubt discussed (linked?) above, but the Classic Albums/making-of doc was revelatory. Might have been on BBC?

A friend of mine was talking about EWTRTW recently and said that he realised, after decades, that near the end when RO sings 'say that you never never never never need it' that he's mimicking the opening riff, which is pretty cool, intentional or otherwise.

holy shit, yes!

although it's Smith who sings most of the song, right? I know he and Orzabal double it up for the chorus and middle eight.

I never noticed that Curt only gets one co-writing credit on the album, but he is no Andrew Ridgeley. FWIW he only gets one on "Seeds of Love," too, but it's the title track. And he gets solo writing credit on several on the first album, including "Mad World," "Pale Shelter" and "Change," the ones I hear the most.

i think they double-up that part too

xp

Orzabal wrote the entirety of The Hurting solo, Josh. You're looking at vocal credits.

Whoops! So that means lyrics, then.

No, just who sung them. RO was sole writer.

Ah, I see now. The Wikipedia credit chart is labeled differently for that album.

https://reverbmachine.com/blog/tears-for-fears-everybody-wants-to-rule-the-world-synths/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJti5XA0MGg

Read a cool story about how RO's original lyrics for "EWTRTW" were more obviously about nuclear war (a major cultural fixation in the mid-80s) but the band didn't like them for some reason and we went in a more ambiguous and fecund direction. That was a close call for music history!

brb, gonna work on a mashup with “Ronnie, Talk To Russia” by Prince

"Roland, Talk to Russia"

Echoes of "Under Pressure," which iirc was originally titled "People on the Streets" before Bowie took over and focused what they had.

once you start getting into 80s music its really striking how many of the lyrics were about nuclear war, most of them were a bit more subtle than Sting was however

Read a cool story about how RO's original lyrics for "EWTRTW" were more obviously about nuclear war (a major cultural fixation in the mid-80s) but the band didn't like them for some reason and we went in a more ambiguous and fecund direction.

Huh, I always figured it was about that anyway. "Say that you'll never never never need it," etc., to me at the time I seemed clear enough.

IT seemed clear enough. I was as clear as mud as any other 14 year old.

most of them were a bit more subtle than Sting was however

"Love Is The Seventh (Shock) Wave (Ripping The Meat From Our Bones)"

I dunno, speaking for myself I need a nuclear war

That's because you're about as easy as one!

I don't subscribe to your point of view