Britney Spears - Circus

Anticipate here!

I'll start:

I hope it's as good as Blackout!

Womanizer premieres tomorrow; there's a 40-second lq clip floating all over Youtube and it sounds like something off Blackout, too predictable. I'm much more excited about that incredible rehearsal song.

glad to see we'll be breaking a lot of new ground with the choreography here

i could watch tht video every hour on the hour

Srsly. When my sister was in Dance Fantasies in 7th grade they were doing most of those moves, sans the humping.

Surmounter I expect you to be posting here in about 35 minutes!

i'm kind of expecting Circus (which is another great name) to sound like blackout, and i'm expecting to like that about it. it's a good drill for her.

i love the song in the clip.

wait is the song premiering then or something?

The kind of kiss into slo mo matrix thing into chest humping move steals the show. I watch that bit three times at least everytime i try to watch any of it

i mean, i wasn't really expecting groundbreaking choreography from a britney video... but i like it anyway.

I don't know how to embed, but here's the womanizer clip:

The chord changes in "Womanizer" sound exactly like another song I can't recall at the moment...

Or, uh, I do know how to embed.

So, Blackout was kindof a Postcard from the Edge. It felt like this incoherent/strangely coherent fragment, like the soundtrack to Britney's partying, paranoia and meltdown. The fact that Piece of Me was this confrontational narration of her tabloid escapades but she didn't even co-write was a stroke of genius. The fact that it overloaded us with Britney, cut-up, distorted, layered and bombarding us from every angle, it was like that crazy period where she was in another car-crash piece of dignity-free press sniffing had found its perfect aural realization; there were thousands of Britneys but none of them were real. She was sprayed in neon all over the album but strangely missing, the autotune on her voice was turned higher than it ever has. Circus though, will have her back. I mean I didn't really believe it until I saw that clip. I'm glad to have her back, I'm worried about her sanity, it's not healthy, her recovery happened in the eye of the storm. Shouldn't she have been staying with Balinese monks or something, meditating or working through it. But instead she's back, she's like a thoroughbred, it's all she can really do. Maybe she's our Judy: Putting on a show when you're dying inside. Still, there's something about knowing that there she is, centering everything instead of falling apart. But who is she now and what can Circus be about now that the circus has died down.

I like to think the album will be a brittle testament to crying on the dancefloor, the trashcan beats of Blackout but the wilting fragility of Everytime. Either way, I have a feeling that this will be her best, and for that I'm hopeful.

I think you're projecting/overanalyzing. Blackout didn't sound like what she was going through at the time at all, in fact it sounded very closed-off from her reality bar "Piece Of Me"

Maybe she's our Judy: Putting on a show when you're dying inside.

I'm sorry but LOL

Um, that was meant to be a joke FWIW. Still, I don't think there's ridiculous projecting going on here. The album is genuinely weird and definitely paranoid in places Get Naked and Freakshow have an understated malevolence, well not son understated in Get Naked, and there's something oddly frantic about Radar. The layering really reminds me (and this part is becoming a central ILM thesis for me) of the Lindsey Buckingham (esp) tracks on Tusk, where the layering is conspiring and decentralising.

blackout did sound like what she was going through. my favorite ex. is still the fact that freakshow is the only song she actually wrote. but even apart from that, a lot of it sounded like what was happening in her life. all the dirty breathing, messy beats.

The fact that Blackout overloaded us with Britney, cut-up, distorted, layered and bombarding us from every angle, it was like that crazy period where she was in another car-crash piece of dignity-free press sniffing had found its perfect aural realization; there were thousands of Britneys but none of them were real. She was sprayed in neon all over the album but strangely missing, the autotune on her voice was turned higher than it ever has.

this is good.

yes, the desperate sluttiness in Get Naked and Freakshow capitulate the poignancy of the album.

LOL whatever, She could have very easily made Blackout even if she wasn't going through what she was, it sounded very 'of the moment' in terms of pop production. I feel like critics try to make the album bigger than it was, as some sort of fuck-off statement, or the bleak apocalyptic portrait of the trappings of celebrity, or whatever when really it's just a collection of well-produced & well-written dance-pop songs that could've been released by anyone. Her vocals are always cut up and distorted and layered....

I mean seriously?:

yes, the desperate sluttiness in Get Naked and Freakshow capitulate the poignancy of the album.

― Surmounter, Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:38 PM (5 minutes ago

...

I'm sorry, but you have this all wrong.

Whatever, if it makes you feel better.

first of all, she didn't really make much, except the vocals, which even if edited to death, are still great.

second, the producers' timing is what is being alluding to, in terms of the appropriateness of the subject matter. i don't think Blackout could have been done at any other point. before it, her albums were produced very, very differently. and even if it was a current mode of production, it fit her personal life well.

when making analogies like IKR's, purpose isn't always important, so much as what actually happened. even if the intent of the producers wasn't as intricate as whoever critics hyped it up to be, the fact remains that the cut-up, messy, seedy nature of the album reflected interestingly on the debacles surrounding its release.

I mean seriously?:

yes, the desperate sluttiness in Get Naked and Freakshow capitulate the poignancy of the album.

― Surmounter, Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:38 PM (5 minutes ago

...

― After The Hurricane (The Brainwasher), Sunday, September 21, 2008 4:45 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

uh, seriously. you don't find it funny that these two songs were released after countless photos of britney bearing her crotch in public?

Nicely put

Get Naked sounds like someone trying to drown their misery in carnal abandon.

and Freakshow sounds like someone admitting to -- owning -- being a big fucking freak.

first of all, she didn't really make much, except the vocals, which even if edited to death, are still great.

um, duh.. what's your point?

second, the producers' timing is what is being alluding to, in terms of the appropriateness of the subject matter. i don't think Blackout could have been done at any other point. before it, her albums were produced very, very differently. and even if it was a current mode of production, it fit her personal life well.

the subject matter isn't any different from In The Zone or even Britney(besides "Piece of Me" and "Why Should I Be Sad")... And I don't see how her other albums were produced differently, she ususally had songs submitted to her and recorded the best ones, just like the Blackout sessions...

when making analogies like IKR's, purpose isn't always important, so much as what actually happened. even if the intent of the producers wasn't as intricate as whoever critics hyped it up to be, the fact remains that the cut-up, messy, seedy nature of the album reflected interestingly on the debacles surrounding its release.

Intent IS important.. otherwise you're just talking out of your ass and making up shit when there's nothing there. If lots of music sounded like Blackout when blackout was released, then how was Blackout specific to Britney's struglle? I don't see how you can say that "Break The Ice", for example, wasn't exactly an out-of-this-world, specifc to Britney's struggles sound at the time it was released, there were a bunch of other Danja-produced songs that sound like that....

first of all, she didn't really make much, except the vocals, which even if edited to death, are still great.

um, duh.. what's your point?

--> my point is that Alfred kept saying "she," but she wasn't really the one who did it.

i can't argue with you regarding whether or not the album sounds different form her earlier albums, in terms of production. i think most people have agreed that it does. you don't have to agree with that.

intent is important to an extent. sometimes you don't even realize what you're intending, though, and it just happens. that's why people analyze. intent isn't always clear, and parallels are always made, whether or not they were intended to be perceived.

it's like dissecting writing. you're always going to make analogies that the author may or may not have intended. it's part of the process of deriving meaning from the work.

uh, seriously. you don't find it funny that these two songs were released after countless photos of britney bearing her crotch in public?

― Surmounter, Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:52 PM (9 minutes ago)

Funny? Sure... "a Postcard from the Edge...the desperate sluttiness [of which] capitulate the poignancy of the album" No... not when she has songs about the same shit on albums from 5 years ago when she was not going through anything crazy.

point taken, but at this point, it's just a matter of how we hear it differently. can't really argue with that.

The best interpretation, which is all we can ever go on anyway, is not the one that divines the authors original intent, if that were true, theory and criticism would be completely pointless and this whole site a receptacle of ones and zeros. We just try and make our own sense of things, or at least try and unlock something about that moment where pop music, well pops. I fail to see how circumstance is not allowed to be a factor.

--> my point is that Alfred kept saying "she," but she wasn't really the one who did it.

sorry, this was you, brainwasher. i got confused cuz of the "After.."

otm ikr

especially this: The best interpretation, which is all we can ever go on anyway, is not the one that divines the authors original intent, if that were true, theory and criticism would be completely pointless and this whole site a receptacle of ones and zeros.

you guys should have your own board called I Love Self-Parody

i think that's called ILX, in general, jordan

My prerogative is the only song that really predates this, and even that had a more upfront vocal. No other Britney album has been so joylessly horny.

joylessly horny

--> my point is that Alfred kept saying "she," but she wasn't really the one who did it.

are you referring to me?

How the hell is anyone supposed to tell what these things sound like, from the shitty shitty sound? Bubblegum is all about the production (and it was the wonderfully dark production that finally sold me on Blackout) but all of that is lost in these clips. I think I'll have a better experience if I wait for the real thing.

I don't think for a second that Britney chooses anything to do with her work. If her "people" think hey, they can sell Brit on her making a dark album about her freaky life, then we get a dark album about her freaky life. I bet album will be all about coming through her dark, freaky problems and ending up back on top. Everything seems as choreographed as one of her videos.

Not that I'm complaining, mind you, it's wonderful soap opera stuff. But, like most soap operas, works better if you don't read too much into it, psychologically.

sorry, this was you, brainwasher. i got confused cuz of the "After.."

― Surmounter, Sunday, September 21, 2008 4:10 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

I take serious issue with Masonic Boom's post, but I couldn't even begin to think about possibly knowing what to say to that.

hay j0rdan wats good

what up man. not posting to ilx that much recently cuz i my computer is getting fixed

yea where the fuck

hay jordan. Welcome to the new gay thread.

btw guys if its true that britney's music is so closely tied to her public persona (and this is what makes it great) than what will it say about blackout when circus is not her redemption album but another album about fucking and dancing

This is what I've been wondering!

so what you're saying is by not analyzing her other albums in the same way, our argument loses validity.

i say oh shaddup

but PS i don't expect it to be a redemption album, actually. IKR seems to but i'm not sure. i think she's gonna ride the slutwave.

i mean it's called Circus

i'm thinking Freakshow exploded.

Which bit of my post do you have an issue with?

Saying Brit doesn't choose the direction of her work, her "people" do?

Or saying that you shouldn't read too much into soap operas?

The former I think is just bubblegum and the way it works. A bubblegum act, by its very definition, is usually only as good as the producer - or rather, the interaction between production/songwriting and personna.

The latter? Oh, OK. We can do the post-modern thing and read as much as you like into the whole story.

Womaniser seems to be very much in the "boys gone done me wrong, I gonna chase them down and kick their arses" from the 10 seconds of it I could bear. (Sound issues - I really can't do bad sound.)

so what you're saying is by not analyzing her other albums in the same way, our argument loses validity.

no not at all. what im saying is, that the basis of the argument made by people who think that blackout is more than just a normal pop album analogous to something by the pussycat dolls or danity kane is that her songs about banal things (dancing, fucking) become more emotionally resonant because of her public persona. but she hasn't had that image now for almost a year, so what's it going to say about all those songs on blackout when they are duplicated on this album even though they don't apply to her any longer.

just because she isn't bald doesn't mean her emotions aren't still resonating. if her album is about fucking and dancing, i don't think it changes anything about what blackout meant. to me it just says, i told you i blacked out and i'm a freak, and i still am.

Yes, I disagree with every bit of mb's post. I'll respond to the first two paragraphs later, but I want to talk about that last point, which seems to be the main argument upthread, too.

In general, criticism always helps me--and others, too, i assume--fully appreciate art. When we study a piece of music, we discover why it causes us to react the way we react...So, whether or not Ryan Tedder intentionally used a heartbeat pattern at the beginning of "Bleeding Love," he did, and that's one of many reasons I find that song magical. Maybe it's just peer coincidence, maybe it's an act of God, but the drums match the lyrics throughout the song. The same goes for Britney Spears or any other "soap opera" act; all sorts of elements--cirumstance included--play a major role in our connection with and love of music and when we study those elements, it furthers our relationship with the piece.

so what you're saying is by not analyzing her other albums in the same way, our argument loses validity.

i say oh shaddup

― Surmounter, Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:30 PM (3 minutes ago)

It's a perfectly valid criticism... How can you honestly analyze "Blackout" through the lens of her personal struggles when it was made the exact same way her other albums were made, and the songs are about the exact same things..

I don't think it will be redemptive, just damaged.

They are about the same things, but they take a very different view.

so what you're saying is by not analyzing her other albums in the same way, our argument loses validity.

i say oh shaddup

― Surmounter, Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:30 PM (3 minutes ago)

It's a perfectly valid criticism... How can you honestly analyze "Blackout" through the lens of her personal struggles when it was made the exact same way her other albums were made, and the songs are about the exact same things..

― After The Hurricane (The Brainwasher), Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:39 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i think it's more than possible to tie her earlier work into the analysis sensibly.

a thesis paper on her discography would be soooooo much fucking fun.

I would argue that all art involves a meeting point between viewer and maker. Blackout, like it or not, existed in that period where nobody was safe from the media barrage, of flashing bulbs that seemed intent on tearing (a clearly close to the edge) American Princess, down to size. Blackout was messy and chaotic and strange, the vocals were stretched and stained, and even though she was everywhere, it never really sounded like a real person. I don't think that suppressing that aids anyone or embracing it is projecting. Because nothing exists in a vacuum.

"or rather, the interaction between production/songwriting and personna." This is so obviously true, its one of the great tenets of pop, that image and persona are about creating context.

No they don't. "Get Naked" = "Breathe On Me" = "Early Mornin" = "I'm A Slave For You" basically. "Radar" = "Toxic". .. there's not much variation in terms of theme, and I hear hear a particular point-of-view on these subjects expressed on Blackout that's radically different from ITZ or Britney. Again, I'd say that you are projecting. If two songs are about dancing all night and acting freaky, but one was made during a time of personal turmoil, that doesn't mean that one somehow has deeper meaning. Maybe it's just about dancing.

I could see how one would analyze "Gimme More" through the 'these songs translate to her personal struggles' les - the "crowd" she speaks of is the papparazi, the fans, the haters, everyone who keeps demanding more from her, whatever... - but what about "Perfect Lover"? "Heaven On Earth"? "Toy Soldier"? "Radar"? These are all basic songs that could've fit on any album by anyone and don't have anything to do with Britney herself.

I mean, pop is a real invention of the twentieth century, and that message has spread into visual art, the production line of meaning.

"Get Naked" = "Breathe On Me" = "Early Mornin" = "I'm A Slave For You" basically. "Radar" = "Toxic"

Yeah, in the way you could say any pop song is like any other, it willfully avoids any sense of nuance.

Because nothing exists in a vacuum.

right. and as someone just pointed out to me, In The Zone was kind of an album of transformation -- foreshadowing what happened on Blackout.

If two songs are about dancing all night and acting freaky, but one was made during a time of personal turmoil, that doesn't mean that one somehow has deeper meaning.

actually, it very well could mean just that.

I mean, with this way of thinking you could buy like six albums ever and never need another scrap of music.
xxpost

you don't think britney singing Get Naked or Freakshow in the studio felt a little more emotion than Britney singing slave or breathe on me?

she's singing about stripping in public and being a freak, right after she shaves her head and beats a car down with a bat. i think there's meaning there, even if she was singing about being a slut on her first album.

I mean, with this way of thinking you could buy like six albums ever and never need another scrap of music.
xxpost

― I know, right?, Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:51 PM (2 minutes ago)

Don't see how you got that from what I said, but okay.

you don't think britney singing Get Naked or Freakshow in the studio felt a little more emotion than Britney singing slave or breathe on me?

― Surmounter, Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:52 PM (1 minute ago
No, I really don't.

she's singing about stripping in public and being a freak, right after she shaves her head and beats a car down with a bat. i think there's meaning there, even if she was singing about being a slut on her first album.

― Surmounter, Sunday, September 21, 2008 9:54 PM (1 minute ago

I just fundamentally disagree with you. She always sings about stripping and being a freak, what makes this time any different?

what else did she sing about being a freak, in the same way she did it this time around?

what makes it different is when she sang it. i sang about being in love in high school. then i fell in love in college. now when i sing about being in love, it's different.

Your whole argument is that all her albums sound the same or are about the same things, but heads up so is MOST pop music. That doesn't mean all pop music is the same, but maybe you choose to hear how something is different, or maybe you can only tune in to major stylistic shifts.

"Outrageous". Put an acid house beat behind it could be on Blackout.

I would argue that all art involves a meeting point between viewer and maker.

Agreed! However, attributing "maker" status to Britney seems kinda quaintly Warholish. I'm sure she has some say in her choice of material; I'm equally sure her share of it isn't really a huge factor in her repertoire, in how her album sounds, etc. This is not as is commonly supposed a shortcut to saying "lol she sucks." Just, kinda, attempting to parse Britney-as-author (which one can actually do with Madonna, Janet, Celine, and a fair number of other divas including, yes, The Judy) seems a nonstarter. She's a participant, not an agent, at least as far as all appearances suggest.

Can't Britney just be some Foucault author as intersection thingy for the sake of argument? Or a theme?

"maker" could be referring to "producer" as well. doesn't mean it's any less meaningful, if it's not britney herself. someone made it.

also, outrageous was about being outrageous, not about being a freak. and the point is, it didn't have an acid house beat behind it. that's why blackout is different.

well, there are also several other reasons, basically any song could be any other song if you make enough changes.

Your whole argument is that all her albums sound the same or are about the same things, but heads up so is MOST pop music. That doesn't mean all pop music is the same, but maybe you choose to hear how something is different, or maybe you can only tune in to major stylistic shifts.

― I know, right?, Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:00 PM (1 minute ago)

I didn't say sounds the same. There is a huge difference between *sound* and *subject matter*. All of her songs ARE about the same things, most pop songs are about the same things.. but you are arguing that when she sings about clubbing one time she's just sining about clubbing, yet when she's singing about clubbing in a song that she had nothing to do with, that she just happened to record during a personal crisis, the song is totally not about clubbing and is actually about her emotional breakdown. It's just a fallacious argument.

I believe what I spoke about was the production and performance, not the songwriting.

i believe that whenever people sing, they're not only singing about the exact words that come out. they're singing about what's going on in their lives. singing is emoting.

Can't Britney just be some Foucault author as intersection thingy for the sake of argument? Or a theme?

Sure! Absolutely! But, you know, if that's the actual discourse in play, I'd expect it to take a somewhat headier direction than "Britney's new work is really good, she's [insert what are essential author-baring-her-soul tropes/garden-variety auterism disguised as popism because the music itself isn't standard auteur fodder]" (except that it actually is standard auteurist fodder now)

??? I'm pretty sure that's not what I meant exactly...

it's enough that she had the opportunity to perform the songs on blackout, in light of her personal experiences. no matter what the exact words are, or if they'd been written before, or if she meant them. it's just an engaging parallel.

at any rate the dance in the first post can only be interesting if ten years of the exact same dance from La Brit still has you hungry for more of a now-very-dated-and-not-in-an-intersting-way routine

also, outrageous was about being outrageous, not about being a freak. and the point is, it didn't have an acid house beat behind it. that's why blackout is different.

Well obviously Blackout is different in terms of sound, because Pop music changed a lot in terms of sound in the 4 years btwn ITZ and Blackout. Blackout was very "of the moment". It sounds like 2007. My point is that there is no difference in terms of subject matter btwn Blackout and ITZ, and that Blackout - for the most part - could exist totally outside of Britney, it has nothing to do with her personal life at all.

i believe that whenever people sing, they're not only singing about the exact words that come out. they're singing about what's going on in their lives. singing is emoting.

― Surmounter, Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:10 PM (1 minute ago)

sure, that's true in some cases. I do not get that from Britney, for the most part her music is devoid of emotion.

it's enough that she had the opportunity to perform the songs on blackout, in light of her personal experiences. no matter what the exact words are, or if they'd been written before, or if she meant them. it's just an engaging parallel.

and actually yeah the relationship between singer and repertoire is very interesting but less so/maybe not at all at the recorded stage

Just that "Britney" is the meeting of a certain voice, a certain narrative, a certain idea of Britney (america's sweetheart to sacrificial party-casualty), a certain sound or sounds.

point taken, john.

My point is that there is no difference in terms of subject matter btwn Blackout and ITZ, and that Blackout - for the most part - could exist totally outside of Britney, it has nothing to do with her personal life at all.

Piece of Me, Gimme More, Freakshow to thread.

how do they not have to do with her personal life?

"for the most part"

and Why Should I Be Sad.

I've already acknowledged POM, WSIBS and said I saw how "Gimme More" could be analyzed in that way.

well then, it looks like we're agreeing on something. la di da.

then it sounds like you're just disagreeing with the extent to which Blackout was significant to actual events.

then it sounds like you're just disagreeing with the extent to which Blackout was significant to actual events.

― Surmounter, Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:21 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

precisely, but this is an important disagreement given how lauded the album is by people who laud it

womanizer = MIA

xp, insofar as the praise is based on whether or not it's real or whatever

apart from all that, i laud it just cuz it's good music.

do not call her our judy

DGMW: im a total brit apologist, but thats just mega out of order

what does that mean, brit apologist?

i mean like what does "brit apologist" mean -- i wasn't addressing you as "brit apologist"

surms, i just defend britney a lot

usually

oh got it, got it.

i just got an intense craving to hear Lucky

wow i never realized it was this good

this is a priceless little piece on the american tragedy:

and this video is just magical:

LOVE how they actually dance in a run around her

awww:

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this is real britney music not like those like slave and gimme more...

she has changed soo much, i just wish she could be like before

:(

britney is the new bob dylan!

She sings about as well!

Astonishing! I actually find myself agreeing with John D...

Agreed! However, attributing "maker" status to Britney seems kinda quaintly Warholish. I'm sure she has some say in her choice of material; I'm equally sure her share of it isn't really a huge factor in her repertoire, in how her album sounds, etc. This is not as is commonly supposed a shortcut to saying "lol she sucks." Just, kinda, attempting to parse Britney-as-author (which one can actually do with Madonna, Janet, Celine, and a fair number of other divas including, yes, The Judy) seems a nonstarter. She's a participant, not an agent, at least as far as all appearances suggest.

This is kinda what I was trying to say.

Whatever else she may be, I see Britney primarily as an ACTOR. She's someone who gets the script in front of her, in the shape of a song lyric or a dance move or whatever, and her job is to make a convincing performance of it. That's the key word. Performance.

I'm not saying that this is a bad thing. Acting is a worthwhile skill and profession, and Britney has been very good at playing a series of roles - teenage sex kitten, bimbo, pneumatic sex goddess, out of control "phr34k" etc. These are standard archetypes from the big catalogue of Stereotypical Female performer. They're parts in a script - a script written/interpreted by Judy or Marilyn Monroe or Sarah Bernhardt or Aphrodite herself.

Part of the reason I liked Blackout so much was because it was great bubblegum pop production. And the other part was, yes, the performance/role of "freaky girl on the edge of a breakdown" was a more interesting (to me) role than I had previously seen her perform. It wasn't just the lyrics, it was the slight edge of hysteria to her delivery, the claustraphobic production, etc.

But let's not make the rockist "authenticity" mistake of conflating actor and role.

Art with a capital A is as much if not MORE about what happens in the space and interpretation between the work and the observer/listener than it is the intent of the producer/actor/maker. I do think that a lot of you (and yeah, me) are filtering our interpretation of this work through knowledge of La Spears' "private" life. Which is a perfectly valid way of interpreting a work of art.

However, our choosing to interpret it in this way doesn't mean that the intent was ever there in the creation process of this work of art. Or, if it *was*, that that intent came from the actor, rather than the scriptwriter.

we should be able to discuss the relationship between maker and audience without getting involved in the old-as-water argument about whether or not pop stars are makers.

we can talk about makers and mean the producers, the songwriters, the everything that came together to make the album. at this point, i think it's obvious to most that britney spears doesn't make much in the way of "her" compositions. that doesn't mean the album can't be analyzed in depth, or treated like something that isn't just a trivial soap opera.

When did I ever say you can't analyse it in depth?

When did I ever say that soap operas are trivial?

Stop being so defensive, dude!

i'm not being defensive, dude :D i just find the pop stars are only actors observation kind of old.

and you did imply that to analyze something like blackout in depth is post-modern rubbish, no?>

...there's no problem with analysing pop culture, bubblegum music, soap operas or whatever!

So long as you don't forget that it *is* a soap opera.

i.e. it's fine to go "omigod, Bianca's back?!?!?" but it's a bit much to go saying that the actor must be abusing her kids because of the soap opera plotline - if you understand the metaphor?

x-post sorry, but show me where in my posts I used the term "rubbish"? I didn't. You're reading intent into my posts that just isn't there.

What's wrong with applying post-modern critical theory to bubblegum?

Isn't that kind of the point of post-modernism?

ok, sorry, i thought you were implying that you didn't much care for """post-modern""" theory along those lines! no harm done man!

I like the implied word prefacing these album titles - media blackout, media circus.

I love Blackout as unabashedly bubblegum pop, but I love it even more that she *didn't* release an album full of "Everytime"-type confessionals or "I'm stronger without you" mantras. Imagine Beyonce/Christina/Pink's idea of a marriage-breakup album - god, I'm killing myself already thinking about it.

I dunno, Pink's "So What" is kind of great and I can't imagine Britney doing something that meta about her divorce with the same kind of self-awareness and humor and it actually working.

I was thinking more that she went completely in the opposite direction of what everyone (or at least me) expected her to do.

So, this from Simon Reynolds on Aaliyah (It's sort of relevant but also sort of not.): "More than just impersonal, there's something almost immaterial about Aaliyah
(it's hard to imagine her flossing her teeth, or wiping her bottom). Aaliyah might be best understood, and enjoyed, then as a figment--a phantom of cathode-ray dazzle and studio-processed breath--concocted by an ensemble of stylists, choreographers, make-up artists, personal trainers, lighting technicians, video directors, song-doctors (like her main writer, Static from Playa), and, not least, trackmasters like Timbaland, her primary production foil until now. Timbaland has said he uses Aaliyah as "a probe" (itself an oddly depersonalized phrase), a vehicle for testing his most far-out ideas in the "urban" marketplace. "

The difference is that Aaliyah was, at least in the later parts of her career, a rather masterful interpreter, whereas Britney is not.

that reynolds paragraph on aaliyah is such bullshit

and kind of proof that he never ever got r&b as a genre

i mean for all he dresses it up in poncy language about cathodes and figments, what he's doing is completely dismissing aaliyah's agency and humanity there that is such bullshit! this is the first thing i have read this morning and it has already made me angry! aagh

YES I KNOW SHE'S A PRETTY BLACK GIRL WHO DIDN'T WRITE THE SONG AND JUST DANCES AROUND BUT IT'S OK SHE DOESN'T REALLY EXIST!!!!1111

god what a fucking div

um back to blackout, don't have time to go thru whole thread but i agree with both IKR and brainwasher, the genius of the album is how it takes mostly standard freaky sexxx songs and makes them directly pertinent to how we (the world) perceived britney at the time

Can people please stop calling Blackout 'bubblegum'? It's way too dark and uncomfortable and just plain SOUR to be bubblegum. Unless its that sort of lurid lime green type gum that stings your mouth for a bit.

None of this is meant even remotely as a criticism.

OK, not to start that awful horrible "importance of genre" thread up again, but I would still assign Britney Spears as artist/entity/whatever, to the genre of Bubblegum. Even if Blackout, as an album, may be too dark/weird/whatever to fit entirely within the genre of Bubblegum.

I would conditionally agree with this...

the genius of the album is how it takes mostly standard freaky sexxx songs and makes them directly pertinent to how we (the world) perceived britney at the time

Except I would put way more weight on the *perceiving* end of it. Context is so important in this reading.

Would you have the same opinion of the album had it been released, note perfect exactly the same production, by a different performer?

Yeah but the whole point is about how *creating* context is part of it, or in this case, almost inventing a character out of the context. That's not quite right.

Probably, yeah, I think of bubblegum as being much lighter (musically at least). I can't really imagine perceiving Gimme More, or Piece of Me, or Freakshow particularly differently no matter who was performing.

Ah sorry, I've conflated two questions there haven't I?

Thing about bubblegum (classic era bubblegum, at least I'm thinking about) is that even though it has an apparently light feel and childish subject matter, it's always had a double entendre highly sexualised content.

So I don't think that lots of sex precludes being a bubblegum song.

Unless of course, you really think that, say, "Hot Dog" really was about Jughead's pet or whatever.

Yeah but what I think is really interesting is that this album is messy and weird. It's a bit of a dry hump followed by a dry heave y'know?

It's a bit of a dry hump followed by a dry heave y'know?

Record company should use this advertise the album, maybe put a sticker on the sleeve?

It's tidily messy. Scrupulously messy. As though Danja, Star Gate etc. had already carefully plotted out the mess they were going to make, or allow Britney to make.

This is all No Bad Thing, of course.

Anyway whatever, Blackout is probably one of my, I dunno, desert Island discs or whatever, so I'm really fucking hopeful that Circus matches that.

There had better be no Soul Passion and Honesty on Circus. It would seriously lower her tone.

almost inventing a character out of the context

kind of, though it's not really inventing anything - the character already existed. the impression i get is more like an old-fashioned artist/muse relationship, where the muse's actions and existence inspired the producers and writers to create art about her (except with the twist that the creators were also the consumers, in that their reading of britney was filtered through the media, just like ours is) (and haha also the twist that the muse = the artist, too).

i also place more of a premium on perception when it comes to blackout, you can't divorce the sound from the stories at all. i think some of the tracks on blackout are fairly explicitly about britney's situation specifically - "intoxicate me, i'm a lush" on 'radar', the OTT recurring exhibitionism/awareness of the crowd's gaze, the whole "cold as fire/hot as ice" druggy imagery. plus the production (and more pertinently the vocal treatment) is designed to be really, really disorientating, much more so than yr standard electro-danja pop-r&b stuff. all of this kind of infects the more standard could-be-by-anyone tracks on the album by proxy, so i don't think any of the readings upthread are too overthought at all.

i wouldn't really use the word "bubblegum" to discuss any contemporary pop really, except the disney teenpop people...though wouldn't argue with eg 'ooh ooh baby' and 'radar' being put in that category.

There had better be no Soul Passion and Honesty on Circus. It would seriously lower her tone.

bear in mind brit's idea of Soul Passion and Honesty still results in amazing pop like 'everytime' and 'lucky'.

yeah, I think that's more what I was trying to say than what I said.

Fair enough Lex but imagine Duffy or Adele trying to groan their way through "Everytime" - that's what I meant; Soul Passion and Honesty as a Girl Guides Good Conduct Badge.

This sounds so good on headphones but my mp3 player died. It spent a day twitching, unturnoffable and considering I'm about €800 in debt its gonna be a while before I get another one.

Still, I'm back at work on Friday, and I get paid for that day I filled in in a couple days.

This is the problem, Lex and MattDC, is that you're using a different definition of "bubblegum" than I'm intending when I started using the term.

I guess I'm using the more broad definition from books like "Bubblegum Music Is The Naked Truth" - even though they mostly are addressing music from a very specific era, they broaden the genre when dealing with modern forms of music that can be considered bubblegum.

A lot of the stuff on Blackout, I'd still consider bubblegum, because of the kind of sex/drugs/wha? ambivalence of lyrics like Gimme More (a bubblegum title if I ever heard one) and Cold As Fire.

And also, I don't mean "what would your reaction be, if you heard it sung by some other (generic) singer" but more like... "what would your reaction be, had you heard it not knowing it was La Brit?

I guess the reason I'm arguing/debating/musing this stuff, is that *this* is the way that I had to encounter Blackout in order to appreciate it/take it seriously or whatever.

If you'd told me "this is the new Britney, it's dark, it's so influenced by her troubles and weird lifestyle" I'd have instantly turned off. In fact, it did kind of turn me off listening to the album for a long, long time.

It took encountering "Piece Of Me" - by surprise, not knowing what on earth it was, in a sodding Woolworths of all places - totally stripped of context to make my ears prick up and go "wow, what *IS* this? The production is so... wow, I need this, what is it?"

Which I guess isn't really an option for those who don't live under the media rock that I live under, but still.

i guess i just think of bubblegum as coded innocent (or at least never explicit about adult stuffz) - but yeah we're using the word in difft ways here.

it'd be a fantastic album if it wasn't by britney, anyway, i guess a bit like a darker/more disorientating take on the new danity kane album.

OK, I guess the question for me, then, is... is it Britney's performance I'm responding to in liking this stuff, or is it purely the production.

Can you help out an ignorant dirty dronerock girl here, Lex, and reccomened some other Danja produced stuff that has a similar sound/atmosphere to Piece of Me?

I looked him up on Wiki, and honestly, I've not heard of almost any of these people (I have no idea who or what Dainty Kane is). Can you reccomend me 2 or 3 tracks to listen to? (I know I'd be pushing my luck asking for a mix CD)

I have seriously lost touch with pop since I lost touch with Poptimism.

Can people please stop calling Blackout 'bubblegum'? It's way too dark and uncomfortable and just plain SOUR to be bubblegum. Unless its that sort of lurid lime green type gum that stings your mouth for a bit.

None of this is meant even remotely as a criticism.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, September 23, 2008 4:46 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

THANK YOU

early britney is bubblegum. big difference.

This is the problem, Lex and MattDC, is that you're using a different definition of "bubblegum" than I'm intending when I started using the term.

I guess I'm using the more broad definition from books like "Bubblegum Music Is The Naked Truth" - even though they mostly are addressing music from a very specific era, they broaden the genre when dealing with modern forms of music that can be considered bubblegum.

A lot of the stuff on Blackout, I'd still consider bubblegum, because of the kind of sex/drugs/wha? ambivalence of lyrics like Gimme More (a bubblegum title if I ever heard one) and Cold As Fire.

(xps to k8)

haha i think poptimism has lost touch with pop too.

i can't think of any other danja production offhand which is as fucked-up and disorientating as the most fucked-up/disorientating moments of blackout - which is partly why i think the sounds on that album were specifically and consciously tailored to britney's situation. danity kane are a US girl group whose raison d'etre seems to be "low-rent pussycat dolls". their album is great though, the vocal arrangements especially. youtube links of some of my favourite recent danja productions below (nb - have only gone for danja's own productions rather than his co-productions with timbaland)

danity kane ft. missy elliott - bad girl
danity kane - strip tease
danity kane - pretty boy
kc - say cheese
mariah carey ft. t-pain - migrate
cassie ft. lil' wayne - official girl

haha i think poptimism has lost touch with pop too

thought someone else was gonna say that

'Piece Of Me' produced by Avant & Bloodshy (who also did Toxic) btw, not Danja

Thanks, will check 'em out.

Actually, I looked on the production credits and Danja did several of the songs I really love on that album, but while we're here... please reccomend other Avant & Bloodshy productions?

i can't think of any other danja production offhand which is as fucked-up and disorientating as the most fucked-up/disorientating moments of blackout - which is partly why i think the sounds on that album were specifically and consciously tailored to britney's situation.

word

really just otm right there, lex. OTM

i didn't realise he is basically credited as co-producer of 'Loose'

I have taken this under advisement, but I'd really like to hear for myself before I make up my mind.

One of the things I really like is the looping and pitch-shifting of all the vocal parts so it's really hard to tell who's singing what, male/female everything kind of swhirls around. (Especially on Gimme More.) And on I Got A Plan, the way that the vocal slooooowwwws down on the vocal riff - could be drug experience, perception time shifting as an accident unfolds, gravitational pull of entering black hole, it's one of the most disorienting and genuinely *psychedelic* things I've heard in ages.

(I wish he could give tips to DDB bands who think they're "ooh, so psychedelic, maaan" just coz they've discovered the tremolo buttons on their amps.)

...actually when I first heard it, it reminded me a lot of the use of slowing down of the Jonnie Ray sample "never fall in love again..." on Portishead, but I think that's actual record scratching, not pitch-shifting. I Got A Plan just sounds like a particular quality of Cubase pitchshift/beatstretching that I can hear on that track. (God, I am such a production geek.)

it's cute

yeah there's totally a weird gravitational pull to those danja vox on 'get naked', AND he sounds like a raddled old queen.

there's also a ton of vocal tangents and looping in the danity tracks, but it's five female voices without much pitch-shifting and the aim is more to be candyfloss and girly rather than dark and druggy.

I don't have a problem with candyfloss and girly (obviously) and I do very much like clever vocal harmonies.

yeah, it's candyfloss and girly and also really whorish!

here's a hi-quality mp3 of 'pretty boy' which i'd randomly uploaded anyway, if anyone wants it - http://www.sendspace.com/file/9nbo5b

Oh. I might not like whorish. I am middle aged lady with Ariel Levy style low opinion of Raunch Culture, remember.

i didn't realise he is basically credited as co-producer of 'Loose'

I wonder how important Danja is in the TImbaland pop takeover of the last few years.

Yeah that Simon Reynolds thing is fucked in relation to Aaliyah, I think elements of it are really relevant here though. But Pop music is and has always been a synthetic art composed of many elements, in a kind of rockist way its kind of more authentic because it doesn't disguise the artifice. So its interesting to see how its possible to, i dunno "locate" is maybe the word I'm looking for, the idea of the Pop Artist, which is different from the idea of artist as originator and more the intersection of other points of origin.

also ""low-rent pussycat dolls""

genuine lolz

I wonder how important Danja is in the TImbaland pop takeover of the last few years.

oh there were all those rumours around in 06 (timba's big pop comeback year) about how all the beats were ghostwritten by his then-unknown protege danjahandz. which i believe.

also, danity kane apparently got their name from an imaginary anime character that one of them made up, which is kind of awesome.

Loose i kinda missed, but I got obsessed with it when I was staying at a friend's apartment and the CD was lying around and I ended up playing Do It so many times. It's the blending of smooth and more abrasive textures that I really like. Break the Ice is kindof perfect, its almost like More than a Woman in parts.

Pretty much nothing Danja or Timbo have done seperately since their teamup has been a patch on what they did together.

re that reynolds thing, said it before but my observation of aaliyah was always that she had a coldness (not necess. a problem) that i didn't observe in artists of similar ilk. perhaps it was part of the appeal, mystique etc. but it was certainly odd.

Is Loose>FSLS the standard opinion, I firmly believe this but I wonder what the consensus out there is...

But I think that coldness is a kind of character she had, still she was a great performer with an amazingly clean voice and a really good carrier for a song, I think that's why she is so loved and so puzzling, she really put herself at the service of the music.

coldness != "SHE DOESN'T EXIST"

critical consensus is that FSLS >> loose, but critical consensus is v wrong here.

did I say that?

more cool than cold

Pretty much nothing Danja or Timbo have done seperately since their teamup has been a patch on what they did together.

― Darryl Strawberry (The Reverend), Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:15 PM (42 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I totally disagree. "We Takin' Over" and arguably several other Danja tracks (the Lil Mama/T-Pain single, Katharine McPhee's "Love Story," the stuff he did on the T.I. Vs. T.I.P. and Paper Trail) are all as good or better than the Danja/Timbo stuff, and all Tim could've added to those would be some annoying beatboxing ad-libs.

Ok, I'm going to do this properly. I'm going to load and listen to The Lex's recommendations, and measure how long it takes me to decide that if I'm gonna waste the bandwidth on YouTube, I'd rather watch LOTP get naked in videos instead. We shall see! Here we go...

Bad Girl.

Wasn't "Womaizer" supposed to premiere yesterday?

1:15 seconds on Bad Girl. I like the harmonies, and especially the way they layer on the wobbly bits at the end of the chorus.

But the production has utterly failed to engage me, just sounds bog standard. There's none of that... dislocated psychedelic tension.

I only really like the choirgirl harmony bits. The "I can be yr addiction" bits are just painful.

That's a thumbs down.

x-post sorry!

Skipped to Pretty Boy because I liked the sound of that better than anything called "strip tease" for obvious reasons.

I like the intro, this is nice bleepy stuff. Ooh, I like the synthline and the kind of whippy noises in the background. I like the cut and paste-ness of the vocals, especially on the harmonies. This is more like it, in terms of production.

I just find the girls' voices too... un-distinctive, I guess. So score one for La Brit.

I like where it goes around the 2 minute mark. Much more engaged by this. Yeah I like the waaahk waaaahk waaaahk synth honking. And I actually made it all the way to the end without wanting to switch over to the naked teenage boys.

say cheese - OK, no, I don't like male singers, so that's an immediate thumbs down, though I do like the super-gated drum sample. Turned it off at 1:15 and actually turned over to the naked boys as a palate cleanser.

OK, Mariah Carey.

UGH UGH DOG WHISTLE VOICE, JUST STOP IT.

WANT NAKED BOYS. NOW. 30 seconds. Off.

Nope, sorry. Couldn't even listen to the production, that woman's voice is like fingernails on a blackboard.

Official Girl.

Ooh, like this, it's so slick and so smooth, he's put the candy-slick production filter on this. This is lovely and sweet and sugary and candyfloss and I'm liking the harmonies and the way he leaves in all the breaths and pauses. Good layering.

(Lyrically, it's about being Noyfriended, innit?)

I think I also just respond to the quality/tone of her voice.

So yeah, that's a thumbs up.

So that's one unconditional thumbs up, one conditional thumbs up and a whole lotta "gimme naked teenage boybutt" in less than a minute

OK, you've officially changed my mind. It's not just the production. Blackout is something special. Fine.

"Blackout is something special."

Let it be known that this is true.

maybe we need a new thread for the new Britney album

I was just thinking! Is there some way to just tack all this on to the end of the blackout thread and start fresh, I wanted to keep the thread titles with the same format because i feel like this is very much follow up album.

ha i didn't think that cassie would be the one to pique kate's interest most, the production doesn't grab you particularly (though it suits cassie's voice) and i only put it in b/c cassie is like my favourite pop star right now. yeah there's something about the tone of her voice which i find v compelling too, even if it's technically limited - 'turn the lights off', 'thirsty' and the super-spooky-romantic 'my house' are other cassie favourites. (none danja-produced.)

I disagree, the production is just a little weird, it kind of jerks a bit under the smoooth. Also her deliver is really cool and the layered voices have a really nice tone.

I agree tho that this is brilliant.

are those handclaps? they sound really nice and organic underneath the keyboard strings.

maybe we need a new thread for the new Britney album

― They're a '90s odd couple. And an odds-on choice for laughs. (blueski), Tuesday, 23 September 2008 22:11 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^ lolled at this

Masonic, this is the Danity Kane track to listen to:

Global Factory edit >>>>>>>>>>>>> original

oh, so that's how you embed Youtube vids

Ugh, when did they add li'l wayne all over official girl. He's horrible on this. The thrill of him showing up in destiny's child video is long gone and he looks horrible in this video and even the autotune zaniness can't hide his horrible "singing". His sleaziness is really out of step with the song, which is amazing.

I won't have a chance to listen to these for a while.

I really didn't understand the sleazy pirate dude that turned up at the end of the Cassie video, but she just has such a lovely quality to her voice that I was able to be bemused rather than annoyed by him.

We are anticpating, though, right? Discussing previous work is relevant, discussing similar artists in the genre/other work of the producers is totally relevelant to anticpation.

I just don't think I like Dainty Kane. Maybe they remind me too much of Jeremy Kane.

No seriously Li'l Wayne is great but he is Rubbish on this and why does he mime to Danja singing towards the end try this version instead

Also, I much prefer Danja's singing bits and how he gets his name into them to Timba's "Baby Girl" silliness.

Anyway, what I said upthread about this being damaged, I just mean Britney's not really gonna come blazing out with Survivor or something. There's something very old-fashioned American about Britney, that she'll eventually pull it all together and make a show, but I still think there's gonna be cracks there. Not exactly "Can't hold us down", just Britney keeping on, cos there's nothing else she really can do....

if nothing else she'll just make another album of freaky sex songs.

musically i agree 'damaged' is excellent - don't think it's a danja production though? "do - do you got a first aid kit handy?" is great. my favourite danity moment is probably the pause and the "OWWW!" before the chorus comes flooding back in after the middle eight of 'pretty boy'.

Well I think it'll be weird sex songs but the production will have a few soft spots, chinks of vulnerability before she goes back to robo sex slave mode.

worst case scenario: britney does a katy perry on us and goes all real instruments and guitars and puke cetera.

the scenario we have where katy perry exists is pretty bad as it is. Hopefully she will serve as an albatross to prevent future generations from making the same mistake.

I watched her on Jools last night. Horrendous - all hefty blokes in ill-fitting suits thrashing away in that nauseating We're Real Musicians sense.

No seriously Li'l Wayne is great but he is Rubbish on this and why does he mime to Danja singing towards the end try this version instead

Wayne actually does sing at the end of that song, though, regrettably.

Yeah but there's line that's Danja because it's on the earlier leaks, yeah the tuneless wailing is horrible, not even mountains of vocoder make it sound melodic.

What are you, Geir South?

Oh come on, listen to the singing bit at the end, he really doesn't know what he's doing, its like when you hear someone humming along out of tune to the radio, except its also on the radio with the song.

What, like the Air song? It's gotta be good then!

Sure, go nuts!

PopJustice just compared "Womanizer" to "Some Girls"

OMG YALL

"Womanizer" is gonna premiere within like the next hour

"Like we said above, it's literally quite good."

popjustice also references 'ooh ooh baby' as one of blackout's more insane moments (wtf? got nothing but love for catchy schaffel like 'ooh ooh baby' but it's about the most standard track on the album) so, you know, entire saltshaker of salt as ever.

haha that just made me remember about britney's collab with the ying yang twins!! awesome.

Popjustice are like Jazz Journal except they still think it's 2003 rather than 1939 or whatever.

Womanizer is streaming here:

http://z100.elvisduran.com/pages/news/britneyspears/

Cool thanks I was trying to find somewhere as that got posted!

I listened to Blackout again yesterday, I want another one with awesome fake military snares like Toy Soldiers.

Am I the only one who hears some Cure in the synth riff of Toy Soldiers ? (right now, I can't remember the title of the Cure track I have in mind...)

not feelin it

definitely feelin it, and it'll grow on me. but it's definitely formula.

Vocals feel too competent, but then I wasn't freaking out over Gimme More, it only became amazing after hearing the whole album.

this album should be called Wackout

yeah they are very competent but i'm ok with that.

they have vampire wknd on in the office and they're talking about sarah palin, and all i wanna do is listen to brit :/

ramzi otm...don't know if i love it as a single, but as an album track it's pretty great. compared to blackout, the vocals feel a bit less robotic (which is not to say that they're any less filtered; there's just more emotion in this robot), like this is the track that deserves a "It's Britney, bitch" intro. Not just because we can feel her presence more but also because she's changed characters, from the dirty seductress of Gimme More/Radar to a feisty truthbomber. i like how relentless the chorus is, keeps coming back for more. yayayayaayayaya

womanizer vox soooo robotic. the chorus is kind of ridiculously kickass in its utter refusal to say much besides womanizer. and the 2nd part of the chorus "boy ya try to bla bla bla ah ah" is hotttttttttt

weird song.

boy don't try to front nuh uh
i know just what u are uh huh
u u u are
u u u a
womanizah womanizah womanizah

<3

I love the YOUUUUU in the background that mimiccks the synthline

this song is so hot, much better than Aguilera's new one which kind of goes for the same thing but just comes off as corny.

I tentatively like it, but both Womanizer and the new Aguilera one are blatant Radar/Ooh Ooh Baby rips. Nothing wrong with that, but my brain just ends up singing overtop of them.

this song is so hot, much better than Aguilera's new one which kind of goes for the same thing but just comes off as corny.

Story of Aguilera's life!

ok i love both you and britney like whoa, but that's not certified true

Did anyone else hear that Max Martin did a song for Circus?

He did the song "Circus"

I'd love for Britney to work with Richard X.

Popjustice comparing "Womanizer" to Rachel Stevens = OTMFM

Hearing Womanizer, I inadvertently started humming

"So happy TOGETHERRRRR......"

btw it is truly dire

more talk on womanizer needed. a big grower.

heard it blaring out of a convertible the other day. nice stuff.

boy don't try to front nuh uh
i know just what u are uh huh
u u u are
u u u a
womanizah womanizah womanizah

<3

― After The Hurricane (The Brainwasher), Saturday, September 27, 2008 7:38 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

video premieres on 20/20 tomorrow.

lol shutup on 20/20?? wtf why is that awesome

this song is bringing me joy tonight, and for that i am grateful.

she looks grebt btw: http://www.britney.com/blog/world-premiere-brits-womanizer-video

omfg i can't

oh that's not the video - just a couple of teaser stills.

no no i know i mean i can't take how she LOOKS

lol ok. I know... the economy and the world might as well be going to shit but yay for britney.

contrast

fuck i want to have people over for this.

no i don't.

too intense.

where the fuck is tiarnan

Would smash bitchy secretary Britney.

i don't love 'womanizer' :(

i mean it's ok and way better than xtina's similar dated-schaffel comeback, but...i could just listen to 'ooh ooh baby' instead, you know?

i know what ya mean lexerrific

the fact that i forgot this was premiering tonight has officially broken my week!

video link?

Yay for man butts.

thank you so much

back x 2

red haired brit takes it

Wow, has she ever had such a beautifully shot video? Also, is it just a camp sendup of everything we said about Blackout upthread, minus the coke paranoia?

A+ video. whoever the random model they've dredged up to be the male protagonist is, he's hott.

what is with all this lazy chorus songwriting going round at the moment though? the sugababes single goes "HERE COME THE GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS. HERE COME THE GIRLS GIRLS GIRLS." and repeats itself. 'womanizer' is basically "YOU'RE A WOMANIZER WOMANIZER OH YOU'RE A WOMANIZER WOMANIZER BABY". like, can we have some ~idea development~ please

yeah dude is fiiiine.

i'm still LOVing the repetition on this chorus but i can see how one wouldn't.

my boyfriend pointed out that the actual term "womanizer" is part of this song's success -- it's rather dated. the video works with that.

WHO HAS A NO. 1

once in a blue decade

wooohoooooo!!!!!

big lol at my friend so shocked that britney's naked in this video. i didn't even flinch.

omg!

http://i38.tinypic.com/ix4m4j.jpg

Official Circus Tracklist
1. Womanizer
2. Circus
3. Out From Under
4. Kill The Lights
5. Shattered Glass
6. If U Seek Amy
7. Unusual You
8. Blur
9. Mmm Papi
10. Mannequin
11. Lace and Leather
12. My Baby
Bonus Track:
13. Radar (?? remix maybe?)

"if u see amy"!!!!

those titles suggest it's going to be a lot more meta than blackout

i'm not getting the amy reference

i'm assuming winehouse

more embarrassing cover art (slight improvement on Blackout but still)

yeah its like the "indie label intern on a deadline"

look

ok haha i just went to talk to my flatmate about this and if you say "if u seek amy" out loud it's basically "F-U-C-K me". oh britney! more freakiness imminent i guess

30 ILMrs mouthing the title and going 'oh yeahhhh'

Lyrical repetition =/= "lazy chorus songwriting", imo.

A lot of songs are effective precisely because of it. That's a big part of why I love a song like, say, "Archangel" by Burial.

o

tm

that cOVER ART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i can't describe how it makes me feel

it's like ginger rogers meets whatever happened to baby jane gone SEEDY

dudes i hate to tell u but this is going to fucking blow so just move on w/yr livez

right because YOU'RE THE EXPERT AND YOU KNOW!

has brit ever had a really bad album? no.

i'm an expert in liking shit that's not wack as fuck

WEIRD me too!

m@tt the last album was actually hot i'm def looking forward to this

That CGI fembot on the cover vaguely resembles a Paris Hilton/Jessica Simpson/Britney (in that order) composite.

actually, brit is the only artist i can think of w/a discography this substantial whose every album release is better than its predecessor. given how amazing blackout was i don't expect this to continue but still, 5 albums of a solid upward trend is pretty unique.

I don't know if I'd say Blackout is better than In The Zone, which I already thought was a very strong album.

iirc you weren't as impressed w/the look-at-me production and meta-ness of blackout as most though, tim?

Actually i like both of those things! It's less about Blackout being weak than In The Zone being strong and underrated.

To be fair I think the meta-ness has been over-emphasised at times. Sometimes the discourse around Blackout does imply that Britney's life becoming a freakshow was the condition of possibility of her making a good album (rather than just hit singles). I wonder if some of the more histrionic fans of Blackout will lose interest now that her life seems to be back on track.

I agree with In The Zone being a great album, but Blackout was a moment

Circus cannot live up, I'm pretty sure.

9. Mmm Papi

Why am I scared and fascinated by this ?

"Circus cannot live up, I'm pretty sure."

ha ha, already writing the narrative I see.

by this song title, i meant

it's almost specifically tailored to her gay male latino meth-laden LA fans. i hope it delivers

I wonder if some of the more histrionic fans of Blackout will lose interest now that her life seems to be back on track.

― Tim F, Monday, November 3, 2008 4:54 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this isn't a concern for me. now she's just a wackjob who lifts weights, is all.

aww it's being released on brit's bday!

haha okay i admit i was kinda wasted and listening to fear last night : )

:P

that head nod thing she does in the Womanizer video is awesome

where she's like looking at the camera and she does "yup tht's right" nod

naked

KILL THE LIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111111

apparently the entire album has leaked on a private site so it should be available pretty soon

Yeah, I've read that a bunch of UK journalists got a sampler with "Kill the Lights," "If U Seek Amy," and "Out from Under" and were told to leak them to create hype. I'm excited!

I love "Kill the Lights" (especially the "I KILL the lights/pure satisfaction" part), though I'd love it even more without the Danja intro.

this is a seriously weird song. i'm into it.

love this! could this actually be as good as blackout?

pretty much.

If you're feelin' froggy, leap!

guys

Yeah, it's pretty awesome. I think that's just the first verse and chorus looped tho. Full version:

omg THANK YOU i was confused

wow

This isn't as good as Blackout, but it's pretty good.

it's kookier <3

haha hehe haha ho

please let this be a single :!

The whole album has leaked...

Biggest difference between this and Blackout? Circus is less dark sonically, and has things that very much resemble ballads. It's less of-a-piece and it's more hit-and-miss, but when it's good, it's very very good.

What does "Radar" sound like on the version you have Alex? The one I d/l'd just has a shitty rip of the Blackout "Radar" tacked on.

guys "Blur" is so good

The new version of Radar isn't all that different tbh. The intros are different and the key was adjusted. It's not the re-work I think lots of us were expecting.

Listening to this now..."If u seek Amy" is less clever once you hear the chorus (love me, hate me / but can't you see what I see / all of the boys and all of the girls / are begging to f.u.c.k. me"). Not sure if that really qualifies as a pun.

"Radar" is still awesome, maybe she can put it on every album from now on? Not a huge fan of all the ballads on this one, <3 "Womanizer" tho.

Is that song in the rehearsal vid (see first post) anywhere on the album?

p.s. I adore the Amy lyrics! Keep in mind:
Amy is a given name, a variant of "Aimee", which means beloved in French, from Old French amede, from Latin amāta, feminine singular past participle of amāre "to love". The name may also originate from French Ami, which means friend.
Amy can also be a diminutive of "Amelia". Amelia is derived from a separate root word, the Germanic amal, "to work."

Yeah, it's called "Mannequin".

haha I didn't realize Brit was using the French Ami there!

By far the best tracks here are the fuzzy house ballad Unusual You and then Blur, which is tremendous. I can't place what Unusual You reminds me off underneath all the top-end detail, it couldn't be 2004-period Superpitcher could it?

The more Blackout type stuff doesn't do it for me I'm afraid, it's like they looked at all the good press the last album got and thought "hey, Britney's in a position to actually promote this one, lets just do exactly the same thing again", except the songs aren't as good.

I'm not sure what I think of Mmm Papi. It's, erm, a Xenomania isn't it?

Also the meta gets a bit tiresome on this one, for exactly the same reason I touched on in my second paragraph.

Yeah as I implied upthread i don't think I want Britney to do meta anymore. That sort of thing gets trapped in a cycle of diminishing returns very very quickly (except in rap obv).

On first listen it's a lot more meta than Blackout.

By far the best tracks here are the fuzzy house ballad Unusual You and then Blur, which is tremendous. I can't place what Unusual You reminds me off underneath all the top-end detail, it couldn't be 2004-period Superpitcher could it?

The more Blackout type stuff doesn't do it for me I'm afraid, it's like they looked at all the good press the last album got and thought "hey, Britney's in a position to actually promote this one, lets just do exactly the same thing again", except the songs aren't as good.

Errr... "Blur" is the most Blackout-esque song on the album! My complaint is that the album doesn't sound MORE like Blackout, I don't know what "blackout type stuff" you're talking about... the best tracks on the album are the few that sound like they could've been on Blackout - "Blur," "Kill The Lights," "Mannequin" etc. ...

Sonically at least, Blur doesn't sound like anything on Blackout. And a good thing too, Blackout was great once, do we really need a retread?

I listened again at lunchtime... it's not very good - I'm trying to place quite why it sounds so rote. Maybe it was rushed through, maybe the producers downwardly revised their sales expectations for a new Britney album and saved their best ideas for elsewhere, maybe it's because that whole filthy electro + schaffel aesthetic is just clapped out.

Another thing about Blackout is that it has tremendous momentum once it gets going, there's a real DJ set feel to it, and that's largely absent here.

Sonically at least, Blur doesn't sound like anything on Blackout.

Umm.... yes it does. I could easily hear it as the closing track on Blackout instead of "Why Should I Be Sad". It totally fits on the album sonically and thematically...

haven't heard much. but so far i'm into Rock Me In (i think?), and some ballad-like one, very falsetto. and obv womanizer and If u seek amy are good by me.

Wow, "Blur."

http://www.imeem.com/britneyspears/playlist/XT-b3ZKs/britney_spears_circus_music_playlist/

http://www.observer.com/2008/media/what-difference-10-months-make

omg

THE COVERRRRRRRR

Letting myself hear all of these for the first time and typing a little.

Blur really doesn't sound like anything on Blackout really. But it has that vapour trail of beeps.

Mannequin does though and even if the album doesn't live live up to my expectations then this song will fill the gap. It's like the machine that's supposed to remake/remodel her just hurt her. Those hoover-ey synths suck her voice along and she feels submerged in the glacial melt, its the song where she really doesn't sound like she's feeling it, but for the only real time I am.

What is with the Sleigh Bells on If You Seek Amy? Those culicue vocal manipulations are nice though.

Out From Under is the type of ultra slight power ballad I can't deal with from Brit, but older ones have aged surprisingly well, this is the most 90's sounding thing she's done in AGES it could almost off of Oops but it is a bit weirder maybe.

Unusual is great and all, there's a lot of Robert Miles sounding things, which is a weird reference but out of nowhere it's what springs to mind, but I get the nagging feeling that most of these songs would be better with a cut'n'paste narcotised vocal instead of this clear, competent thing. At the same time I like how poised this sounds.

Radar though is just a slightly blanded out version of what was one of the golden nuggets of Blackout.

Mmm Papi is kinda mental but she should maybe leave this schtick to Christina.

Leather and Lace though is a surprise, the most genuinely new sounding thing she's don't. That Seinfeld Bass is a great idea, this is like a Eurodisco Rickie Lee Jones, the arrangements are bonkers, things just drop in and out and those multitracked vocals sound great, Britney really works with this, its a great vocal!

Amnesia is pretty skippable.

Rock Me In is practically Girls Aloud.

My Baby is a shameless redo of Everytime without that gently cracking almost-refrain.

Phonography keeps reminding me of "Rhythm is A Dancer" although, where that is great, this is not: another example of Britney sounding too there its fairly bland mid 90's house-pop and her vocals drag.

Shattered Glass is practically Anastasia.

In retrospect I might have not been letting myself enjoy these, but really this doesn't really have any of the paranoia of Blackout or the aggressive sexuality of In Da Zone, it sounds too together. Mannequin is sortof amazing though. Right now though, I'm disappointed.

"Amnesia" is the track I'm skipping least! You don't love the "I get amnesia when I'm standing next to you-uh-ooh" part?

"Amnesia" and "Phonography" should be album tracks instead of "MMM Papi" (too embarassing for words) and "My Baby" (the sappiest thing I've heard in years).

I guess the lyrics to "Phonography" make it kind of embarassing too, but somehow I can forgive myself when I listen to it and I can't when I listen to "MMM Papi."

Kill The Lights, Mannequin and Leather And Lace stand out for me

i still haven't really heard this in full yet. i know it'll sink in for me.

i can't really believe how good she looks http://www.dlisted.com/node/29493/images/81127P10_SPEARS_B_GR_04.jpg

this album is really really not good :(

it feels like far too much hard work (on both sides really)

I kind of like this album even better than the previous one, as when compared to that one this is even less Justin Timberlake and more Kylie Minogue. Which is good obv.

I'm not quite sure why people are raving over Kill The Lights and Mannequin, both of those seem really laboured to me. Kill The Lights just has far too many things going on and it's stuck together awkwardly. Both sound like the producers worked really hard on it but there's no moment of pop inspiration, no magic in there.

KTL and Mannequin have good devices that grabbed my attention namely the dramatic brass hit and the "screeeeam" vocal hook (i really really like this for some reason). i don't hear them as particularly laboured or awkward at all.

the "so why haven't yoooou" line in Unusual You is also nice

sort of liking Amnesia now as well

I like the title track though.

which just seems kinda laboured to me..!

'if u seek amy' and 'amnesia' are the only ones i really see myself returning to

the Circus video is good (not to mention the song)

without having heard the album, i can safely count 5 great songs (Circus, Womanizer, If U Seek Amy, Kill the Lights and Rock Me In). how bad could the rest be?

well if you love all those i don't think you'll be at all disappointed

:) :)

I'm pretty disappointed; I was hoping for more Blackout-like jams. One of my favorite parts is when she says "ha ha he he ho ho ha" though. I like the song "Out From Under" (lifted from a Bratz soundtrack?!) but it ruins the momentum of Womanizer + Circus. Why is Radar on this? It really highlights how much this album pales in comparison to its predecessor.

Out From Under is going to be a single I think

i can never really compare the album after an artist's Greatest Album Ever to its predecessor b/c it just feels wrong to me. i mean, i think things should naturally change, go up and down (insert "that doesn't mean it should suck" here).

i like Out From Under! Tape Store was trying to tell me it sucked. i told him it didn't.

looove "unusual you"

I can't place what Unusual You reminds me off underneath all the top-end detail, it couldn't be 2004-period Superpitcher could it?

ding ding ding ding

also the very beginning sounds like "bronze cast" by the grifters

I think I'm gonna buy this and not listen to it until I've decided I'm over it not being as good as Blackout.

glad to hear you're planning on listening at all :D

Circus really shouldn't be underestimated

i can never really compare the album after an artist's Greatest Album Ever to its predecessor b/c it just feels wrong to me. i mean, i think things should naturally change, go up and down (insert "that doesn't mean it should suck" here).
well said. i feel like this about skeletal lamping. 'cept i lovelovelove it

http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2008-11/43634151.jpg

her little thumb-my-nose move and teenybopper dancing at the end of the circus video is aweeeeesome

Is it just me or are the bonus tracks stronger than most of the album? really liking Amnesia, Trouble (ace Madonna sample), Phonography, Rock Boy.

mannequin is nice

so is mmm papi

has a definite beach sounds thing

"Mmm Papi" is saved by Britney's nutsy performance. "Mannequin" is really nice and ugly. Nothing quite as good on this disc as "Womanizer," tho.

surprisingly nice fit, this:

no longer available :/

"Entertainment website Digital Spy described the video as "cheeky, seductive and more than a little bit ridiculous", and said that Spears "delivers some killer dance routines".[16] Unlike "Womanizer"" Australias' "The Inquisitr" gave the music video a positive review calling it "unexpected" and quoting "Spears looks fabulous in the video, its one of her best works yet."[17] MTV gave the music video a favorable review quoting "This is her best video to date, this is one of the hottest music videos yet to come!"[18]" wiki

(re: circus)

so the single's official release date is tues dec 9, i guess

non-embedded link

hahaha

through one listen. "out from under" is nice, but i don't really like Brit's performance. she doesn't really seem there, and it's not to the song's benefit a la rihanna.
"kill the lights" - no. DNW
"unusual you" is v v good imo. nice, simple, and to the point. much better than "OFU" due to brit really selling it. probably the one i'll want to come back to the most, though i have no doubt i'll like "womanizer" eventually.
all in all, a decent effort with a few very nice songs. a(n) (inevitable, really) step back though, in terms of quality.

This just isn't where my head is right now.

wtf -- the official britney Cricus video? it doesn't have the BVLGARI symbol the jewelery case at the beginning! the leaked video did!

sucks that was hot

I had no idea so many 15-year-old girls were on ILM.

lol @ the idea of 15-year-old girls listening to Britney in 2008.

try to conceal your "excitement" Adam

15 year olds are listening to Paramore and other artists featured on the soundtrack to the hit movie Twilight

i miss 15yr olds

ccccrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeppppppyyyyyyyyyyyy

yeah my 16 year old sister completely scorns me (26) for my love of Britbrit. She's more into MyChemRo and FOB

My 17 year old sister is too old for Chris Brown.

"too old"

My 17 year old sister is too old for R. Kelly.

back in my day, i listened to britney spears on my walkman while i walked uphill both ways to school

in the snow

awwwwww. like me and madonna. i will forever associate madonna with cold.

brit's performances in these videos are great. her face! the cheeky little expressions i just love it.

also the sexhaze face she does in womanizer is hilarious

no. 1 album, no. 3 single

again i say re: "womanizer":

"so happy toGETHERRRRRRR...!"

the glamstomp shuffle crunch on that song almost as dated as the hardhouse synth hits at the beginning

i'm hooked on the chorus to "Trouble"! so simple and awesome!

by the way, as a brand-new dad, i wonder if "unusual you" is about a lover or a child. it works really well as the latter.

the rest of the songs are sorta sucky maybe

^^this
i really, really, love "unusual you"

yesysss the chorus to Trouble is good!

PS Circus sounds great on the car radio

also did anyone watch On The Record or whatever it's called? i'm so excited, it looks really fucking awesome

Ideal tracklist for this album would've been:

1. Kill The Lights
2. Circus
3. Mannequein
4. Womanizer
5. If You Seek Amy
6. Trouble
7. Phonography
8. Mmm Papi
9. Unusual You
10. Blur

i know, i'm a little worried about it being so damn long. some of the trax besides those ^^ that i've heard sounded kind of wack :-/

you still haven't heard the whole thing yet surmy?

no i know i'm a slow

the lily allen version of womanizer is good

'amnesia' is AMAZING. so big!

"didn't know it was over! til you came on over!"

'amnesia' Mannequin is AMAZING. so big!

yes!

I play my version of this album all of the time:

1. Kill The Lights
2. Circus
3. Mannequein
4. Womanizer
5. If You Seek Amy
6. Trouble
7. Phonography
8. Mmm Papi
9. Unusual You
10. Blur

btw If You Seek Amy is the next single

sometimes i wanna go out Just to hear If U Seek Amy at a bar

womanizer keeps growing on me. it feels like a weird drug.

how's FUCK ME doing?

mannequin's next i think

lace and leather's soundin gr8

i'm watching womanizer video guy again, he still like the hottest guy i ever seen

guess which palindromical song happens to be the next single...

unusual you uoy lausunu?

Is this a contractual thing? Why release 'Radar' when people already have it on TWO albums? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Radar is a kickass song, Blackout is the superior version.

OMG this song:

why isn't it on the album... Lady GaGa is such a great writer omg

lol @ them finally releasing "Radar" as a single.

btw "Quicksand" >>>>>> all other Circus songs.

I don't know who was in charge of finalizing the tracklist for this album, but whoever it is they need to be be shot.... like all of the best songs were left off of the standard tracklist.

i really don't understand this radar business

i thought it was released from the LAST album

It was supposed to be but they scrapped it because she was about to release Circus, and I guess they were contractually obligated to release the song as a single so they're releasing it now.

the best song on either album easy

lol no

LOL no

quicksand soundin better to me now, and i can def hear the gaga in it "i'm gonna HOLD on")

one thing gaga does real well is play with the emphasis of syllables, i think it's one of her biggest schticks as a songwriter -- messing with the conventional/expected flow of verbal rhythm

"i'm like a performer, the dancefloor is my stage" always bugs me - like, no britney you ARE a performer. not LIKE one.

i saw her last night and it was really great, though kind of weird in that she was always the one doing the least impressive shit on stage at any given time, and a few times i forgot she was there. it's like they designed this amazing sensory spectacle which could still work in the event that she was incapacitated.

this crookers rmx of 'if u seek amy' is pretty banging btw

well, i don't think anyone expected anything else from the show.

and the thing is tho lex, she IS "like a performer" -- you just said so yourself, watching her show. she isn't really a performer anymore. she's mostly good for editing.

feelin "kill the lights" big time today

I thought the entire point of the song "Circus" was that it is wasn't Britney singing about Britney; it was a character who likens her prowess at getting guys in clubs to dance with her to being a ringmaster in a circus.

yeah i didn't expect her to really dominate the arena like beyoncé did, but it was still surprising how little presence she had. and she hardly did any hard dance moves! most of her time on stage was spent being carried/wheeled/walked around by the dancers.

ciara was supporting and had no frills, just a couple of dancers - felt a bit sorry for her, the stage looked so empty. would love to see cici given the budget for a proper arena tour.

xp that would make sense! tbh i have only listened to it a few times ever though

I thought the entire point of the song "Circus" was that it is wasn't Britney singing about Britney; it was a character who likens her prowess at getting guys in clubs to dance with her to being a ringmaster in a circus.

― 1899 Horsey Horseless (HI DERE), Thursday, June 11, 2009 3:20 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes this is so so otm. always got this feel from it. a desperation in it too, sluttiness.

and in a way i do feel britney strongly identifies with this "character"

i found myself singing "chaotic" to myself today, i know it's not on the album but so what, i love that song

"mm papi" is so fun

the Radar video is so lame, I was expecting Toxic pt 2 but no dice

It is. I do love that hilarious slow-mo shot of the horse getting doused with water when she sings "animal in the sack," though.

I'm pretty sure that Radar was orig. supposed to be released as a follow up to break the ice (remember that 2 b continued at the end? manga britney will be like those dungeons and dragons kids 4ever) I really like this video. I have this really visual way of seeing music, so having a video that is outside in the sunshine is enough to help me appreciate how much more space there is in this song than I previously gave it credit. Blackout vers still wins tho

I'm pretty sure that Radar was orig. supposed to be released as a follow up to break the ice

it was

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'amnesia' is AMAZING. so big!

"didn't know it was over! til you came on over!"

― lex pretend, Wednesday, January 14, 2009 5:01 PM (10 months ago)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow! After hearing "Womanizer" on a loud sound system, I totally get it now. I hear such disappointment if not outright sadness in those "you!"'s after the "I I know just just what you are are are" part. One of her very best singles.

:D

G-d right it's one of her best.

that makes me happy :) still so goooood

i still can't help but think of it as a lit stick of dynamite, once it hits that chorus -- just burns right through