Ladies and gentlemen, we are floating in the Velvets vs. Stooges POLL

NOOOO NOOOOOO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

If it were on a personal level, I'd have to go with the Stooges because they've been good to me and fed me lots of nice dinners, while Lou Reed stole my ex-boyfriend's lunch.

However, musically... I'd just have to go with the Velvets because they're more, well, versatile emotionally and musically.

The Velvet Underground.

The Velvets, simply because of the range of their stuff - The Stooges couldn't do the equivalent of the Velvet's self titled album.

Oh Bimble

PAWS!

true, but the velvets' quality control wasn't that finely honed... a lot of tedious drivel in their catalogue.

stooges were more consistently great (if we ignore 'the weirdness').

I want their version of "I wanna be your man"

I just do.

true, but the velvets' quality control wasn't that finely honed... a lot of tedious drivel in their catalogue.

Funny, I was just about to post that the Velvet's mindboggling consistency puts them over the top for me. I can't think of a single song on their albums that I tend to skip. Maybe "Murder Mystery", occasionally. But that's only because I burnt myself out on that one back in the day.

The Stooges have far more songs that I skip - "Not Right", who cares about that one?

Sorry Stooges. You'd lay to waste 99.999% of other bands out their in a heads-up throwdown, but this just ain't yer poll.

their = there obv

Aw, c'mon, seriously? The Stooges, by about a zillion light years.

To answer this one, just fill in the blanks:

You arrive at the party, the banana album is playing, and you just know . .

You arrive at the party, 'Funhouse' is playing, and you just know . .

Mileage may vary, but I'm sticking with my first response.

Velvets.

>It will be bloody, it will be fierce.

It will be no contest. Velvets by a mile, unless the contrarians get hold of this thread.

Stooges vs the Sonics I would like to witness.

Stooges vs. the Sonics wouldn't even be a competition. The Stooges would walk with it.

xpost * 3..

... it's 30 mins into the party

... it's 30 mins before the end of the same party

surely the wrong way round?

OTM

The Stooges I never really 'got' until last year when Funhouse really clicked with me, and I now think it's one of the best albums ever.

But it's the Velvets for me... Massively into them in my schooldays and they stayed with me ever since.

Incidentally, I picked up a mint copy of "Another VU" on vinyl for free last week when a bar in my street was having a clearout and left a pile of records on the street marked "Free!". (I picked up a few other gems as well).

velvets.

No hesitation, the Stooges.

(with hesitation, velvets)

haha fuck the stooges. VU.

I haven't made it all the way through a Velvet Underground song since sophomore year of high school.

fuck the velvet underground. stooges.

fuck the stooges. vu.

its like ILM is finally dividing itself into the boring vs. stooges delineation i have been expecting for years

Velvet's worst moments are worse than anything by Stooges, but it still has to be velvets because The Stooges were never even remotely close to the beauty of songs such as "Sunday Morning", "Candy Says" and "Who Loves The Sun".

Stooges never had a rock song as good as "Sister Ray", and then VU did a lot more besides.

Will the The Weirdness be a factor, I wonder.

The don't really have any animus towards the Stooges, it's just that the only Stooges song I've ever had the urge to put on is "Search & Destroy." I play the VU discog on the regular.

i'd rather hang out with the stooges.

You arrive at the party, the banana album is playing, and you just know . .

---they're some hipsters, oohwee

You arrive at the party, 'Funhouse' is playing, and you just know . .

---shit, this could be a pretty good party!

^^^ totally OTMFM.

% of time spent listening to music at a party vs % of time listening to music alone

also, party with sister ray playing = some good drugs in the vicinity

Though my vote goes to Velvets, Niles' point is well made.

Here is why:

Stooges have a relationship with my groin
Velvets have a relationship with my heart

If it were on a personal level, I'd have to go with the Stooges because they've been good to me and fed me lots of nice dinners, while Lou Reed stole my ex-boyfriend's lunch.

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/9/2006/03/name_drop.jpg

You arrive at the party, the banana album is playing, and you just know . .

---they're some hipsters, oohwee

You arrive at the party, 'Funhouse' is playing, and you just know . .

---shit, this could be a pretty good party!

bears repeating x1000

http://www.lewis-clark.org/media/images/sloth_bears.jpghttp://www.lewis-clark.org/media/images/sloth_bears.jpghttp://www.lewis-clark.org/media/images/sloth_bears.jpg

i hate this poll! :(

vu seems like the right answer, but voting for the stooges just feels so good

BAHAHAH more pictures of fucking bears in a field, nice one, velko

Cause you know what they say about honey bears

^^^^^lolz!

A simple decision. Velvets released two absolute gems plus two other worthies; Stooges matched them gem-wise, but only managed the single also-ran. So, just as surely as 4>3, Velvets>Stooges.

stooges

the motherfucking stooges.

Funhouse is such an unbeatable record for me, this has to be the Stooges.

I'd vote VU as far as them having "admirable" qualities etc, but on a real level I can't choose. WL/WH whould be just as good to hear as I got to a party as Stooges

Funhouse vs. any other 'rock' record = Stooges win

^

Raw Power ain't no schmuck either

The only thing for me that could keep the Stooges from winning this one is smaller output + the first one doesn't hold up to the best VU moments as well, no matter how much I love it

Stooges.

If there was an abstain option, I'd pick it.

As it is, am actually abstaining.

Well, I suppose you could spoil the ballot by pissing on yr monitor, but that could get expensive. ;-)

It's a cheap monitor. Need a new one anway.

but the velvets' quality control wasn't that finely honed... a lot of tedious drivel in their catalogue

The first time I actually disliked anything by the Velvets was when I heard "I'm Gonna Move Right In" on "Another View". Since then I've heard some live tracks that aren't so hot but I still don't think they ever recorded anything in a studio that was bad! The Stooges are probably better than every rock band ever, excpet the Velvet Underground.

I love the Stooges more, but the Velvets were first, so them.

voted stooges w/o a moments hesitation

stooges. and i think i've surprised myself deeply there. wow.

"The Stooges are probably better than every rock band ever, excpet the Velvet Underground"

OTM!

Stooges by a mile. White Light/White Heat is the only thing that lives up to the Velvets reputation.

"Not Right", who cares about that one?

fucking love that song, might be my favourite off the s/t album.

How the fuck is what you'd play at a party any barometer of greatness?
Velvets.

Stooges. It's not a straightforward decision, but shit, Fun House.

Fun House is better than any VU album, but looking at both catalogs, I have to go with VU.

The expanded first album is the one.

Pick the 'long' versions from CD2, replace from off CD1, get the album it should have beene.

Can't listen to the short "Ann" now.

tough, but ill say VU (75% cause of sister ray)

Velvets. Stooges have two and a half classic records, Velvets have what, five?

3 1/2 tops. (I'm one of those bone-head Nico haters)

two. the first two.

so much of the "unofficially" released Velvets' stuff is so great (various tracks off of "VU", "Another View", "Live at Max's Kansas City", the outtakes from "Peel Slowly and See", etc.) I'm padding their classic albums' count...

The Stooges were the entire purpose of rock n' roll.

but Velvets are more than rock n roll ergo they win

everything is rock n' roll, and the more you admit that, the better you are as a person

um okay. I was just alluding to the fact that VU has a wider palette than the Stooges and thus has a broader appeal to me (this is pretty much identical to the argument I made on the Sabbath vs. Zeppelin thread - the band that does more and does it really well will almost always have more appeal to me than a band that does one thing, no matter how great)

oh yeah, I know. I'm just goofin'. I get all unilxor rockist when I think about the Stooges, though, and I figure a Velvets vs. Stooges poll is like crunchy vs.creamy peanut butter debate, people all "You're a shitass motherfucker if you're not on my side!" kind of stuff.

A Stooges/Sabbath poll would be harder, cause in this one it's like "what do you like better in your pop music?", which is a much easier question than "which kind of primal ur brutality do you prefer?"

not a bad suggestion (certainly makes more sense than the Zep vs. Sabbath one)

VU has a wider palette than the Stooges
Yes. VU did everything the Stooges did and a lot more.

what utterly boring reasons to prefer one band over the other

"well, the stooges rock but the v.u. have exactly 13 more tracks that are of 'good' quality or better."

counting the days until the vu vs stones poll

VU did everything the Stooges did and a lot more.

I really don't see that at all. For one thing, I don't think Reed every really drops his guard enough to get as, well, LOOSE as the Stooges were.

um you have heard Sister Ray right

"well, the stooges rock but the v.u. have exactly 13 more tracks that are of 'good' quality or better."

its more like there are more things to appreciate about VU than there are about the Stooges - it has to do with the range of ideas expressed and approaches used allowing the listener to approach the music from a bunch of different avenues, as opposed to just one or two. There's just more there, the catalog is richer.

I've heard Sister Ray, but it doesn't sound anything like the Stooges to me. And, vocally anyway, Reed is still doing Dylan doing Burroughs, in that cool way he he did. Don't get me wrong, I love Sister Ray.

I see what you're saying about the VU doing more things, but I reserve the right not to like any of those things half as much as the Stooges.

Plus, you want light and shade? The Stooges did 'Down on the Street' AND 'Cock in my Pocket'!

I hate to not pick the Stooges, but the Velvet Underground are really an extraordinary. I remember hearing them first, Jesus in Furs, Run Run Run that ringing droning guitar sound that sounded like a veil over everything but it wasn't until I heard Her Call my name and that blast of feedback that I really loved them the sharp tangible feeling for noise and that dilapidated Motown groove. The gift has all the best ideas from Bright Red and White Light White Heat gets caught on the tape head or Nico's doubletracked death rattle on All tomorrows parties or mouthing the brutal sharp words and sound effects of Black angel's death song, so cold and so empty. I remember Hey Mr. Rain like ectoplasm on a windscreen or every non sequitor on Foggy Notion or Pale Blue Eyes where moonlight meets the groundswell and sends everything ringing out forever.

Or actually Murder Mystery which sounds really like nothing else before maybe some Ghost Box stuff.

regarding VU's diversity: in a time when every music fan has a million records and the people who claim to like all kinds of music actually mean it, does it matter that much if a band does a whole lot of things pretty well? A more specialized band, which the Stooges definitely were, can really dig deep into one thing and get further into it, and perfect it. If I want pure rock whateverness, I really can't get much better than the Stooges, but with the Velvets, the Sonics rock harder, Lamonte Young drones deeper, Phil Spector popped better, Can took it further out, Interstellar Overdrive is better than any weird noiserock VU song. (this ties in with this half-baked idea idea I have about "ambassadors of the avant garde" bands like Sonic Youth and David Bowie feeling less necessary in the internet age,but I won't subject you to that) blah blah

I see what you're saying about the VU doing more things, but I reserve the right not to like any of those things half as much as the Stooges.

fair enough

does it matter that much if a band does a whole lot of things pretty well?

I appreciate it on a personal level that the artist tried to do a lot, that they tried to make a persona for themselves that encompassed as much as possible. I admire the audacity of that kind of grandiose, expansive vision. Whether or not its culturally "necessary" (ie, to expand the limited pallettes of their listeners) I don't really care about.

fair enough

Didn't the Velvets have more actual songwriters in their ranks?

Off the top of my head, I think that all of them are credited on at least one or more tracks on "Loaded".

does it matter that much if a band does a whole lot of things pretty well?

I think it is important that a band tries to cover more than one style. Otherwise there's a risk of getting bands that only do one kind of music - there's a rock band, there's a metal band, etc. - with no kind of cross-pollination between styles, and it's that which I find really interesting in a band, and where I think most new music and musical forms come from.

x and xxpost yeah, but I don't think that should really count against either band, since we're judging them as a whole, not the individual members.

xxxpost haha Shakey, if we did a Smiths vs. Cure thread, I'd be saying almost the exact same stuff you're saying here (with the Cure filling the Velvets position).

good point, snoball

The first time I ever listened to "Loaded" I fell asleep halfway through it! No joke!

Then again, "Wine in the mornin' and some breakfast at night"

Loaded is pretty boring. The first three are amazine and VU, I've never heard another view but the box set is pretty great even if it feels a little too laid out or something, like a crash course in velvets who seem like they should be more mysterious or elusive.

The first time I actually disliked anything by the Velvets was when I heard "I'm Gonna Move Right In"

this song fucking rools

Loaded is a fantastic album - alternately tragic, sentimental, funny, biting, blistering, and downright pretty in places.

It just seems like some album to me, I couldn't really get bothered about it one way or another.

I guess that you need to have/have had situations that you can relate directly to the songs. When I first heard "Loaded", I related to "Train 'Round The Bend" particularly, because I was trying to get away from the town where I grew up (I had moved away but it was threatening to suck me back in), and I felt the line "I'm sick of looking at trees, take me to the city".

Slayed the crowd the first time, surely it will slay again!

Uh, sorry. That was supposed to be in the iPod battle thread.

(I still stand by my statement)

Off the top of my head, I think that all of them are credited on at least one or more tracks on "Loaded".

All the tracks were credited to the Velvet Underground at one point, then Lou kicked up a stink about it. I believe "Who Loves the Sun" is credited Reed/Yule.

x and xxpost yeah, but I don't think that should really count against either band, since we're judging them as a whole, not the individual members.

This is re: the bit about more song writers? Because how wouuld that not reflect on the VU as a whole?

You are free to pwn if I'm on the wrong path entirely here. Back to work now (uh oh, late)

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I'd make love while listening to 'loaded' and indulge in frenetic mating with 'Fun house'. And I'm only in the later mood thrice a year.

Stooges. I love the Velvets more than I love Sabbath but...

This is how it breaks down:

Sabbath pwns against all except only 10 bands

Velvets pwns against all except only 4 bands

Stooges pwns against all except only 2 bands

This bands in question being....?

The Clean and The Fall.

who are the clean

i mean i am capable of googling i'm just curious what makes them huge to you personally

I'm leaving soon, so I will preemptively defend my position.

Yes I know The Clean and The Fall pretty much are Velvets copycats, but I think as far as Stooges vs. Velvets go, it comes down to Funhouse vs. Wl/WH (both on my DID list). WL/WH is awesome, the album that makes Motown and R&B sound like psychedelic gothrock, and makes psychedelic goth-rock osund like dub, and I love the schizoid nature of the Velvets, the way they are both messy primitive freakout protopunkers extraordinaire and at the smae time an elegant pop band, but I get turned off by Lou's too-cool detachment. The Stooges are the greatest punk band who ever lived, and Fun House is the greatest album.

I'll elucidate on this more later as I am in danger of being left behind...but, lastly, I am from Michigan, and Iggy is more easy for me to identify
with as well...for all the flippancy in my tone, this is actually very very very close.

sry big hoos gotta go...more from me later.

(rly i am not worth this kind of curiosity)

The Clean were (are? I have no idea if they're still going) one of the better bands from NZ. Try the classic Boodle Boodle Boodle EP if you're curious.

Yeah Hoos, you gotta hear the Clean. I think their Anthology (which is almost all their 80's/early 90's stuff, I think) is still pretty affordable. Get it!

How about The Fall vs. Sun City Girls? What happens then?

Same as happens whenever it's anyone vs the Fall, the Fall win. The Clean're kinda still going, they're an on/off thing

i can't say that with certainty, Niles, bcz i never heard them, but yeah that would be my guess as well...

mostly the Clean I love is their old early 80s stuff. Same with the Fall--late 70s to mid 80s (though I love the new album. Played Wolf Kidult Man on the jukebox at the bar last nite. Played Sister Ray too, and Loose)

(and almost made it with a girl, which never happens*)

*(usually I never even come close)

Uh, only hipsters play Funhouse at a party, sorry. Only for VU do the biker boys meet the college kind.

um, if you play Velvets at a party you are a hipster too.

I've typed and erased a response to that point (velvets at party = hipster?) several times over the last few days. My gut feeling is that if you play the Velvet Underground at a party, you are an unsuccessful hipster. I could be wrong.

I haven't listened to either in a long time but I voted Stooges for the voice and the band's sense of rhythm.

Okay look, you guys are making this way too complicated. If you play VU at a party you are definitely a hipster. If you play Stooges at a party, you are most likely a hipster, too, but the jury's still out on this. They haven't made a decision yet. I'll keep you posted.

You guys have never hung out with drunk punk rock guys?

(I dunno, I imagine hipsters playing LCD Soundsystem or some shit.)

Hahah I dunno, man, I'd love to hang out with some drunk punk rock guys who want to hear LCD Soundsystem.

Both overrated, but VU - more dimensions.

I prefer Minor Threat

Awwww...don't get me started on the Minor Threat again, man. Do you know they are the best thing in the world to play at the gym? No lie.

Know what you mean Bimble

'Small Man , Big Mouth' really zones me into those 5kg chest presses ;)

I wanna play Sunday Morning right now though to get ready. What a pretty tune. That and 'Search and Destroy'

(Not sure if you're being goofy or not, Bimble, but I was making an distinction between hipsters and drunk punk rock guys.)

You arrive at the party, the banana album is playing, and you just know . .
oh shit, these kids are all like twenty, and they'll be really nice and everything, but I'm gonna have to listen to them talk about that Flaming Lips movie and Adult Swim all night.

You arrive at the party, 'Funhouse' is playing, and you just know . .
I'm gonna get drunk and smoke cigarettes with a bunch of bitter bastards. And maybe I'll hear some Chrome later.

HA HA HA x post Lurks - don't get me started on the Lurkers...

Cheers for making me laugh

i know a lot of people who watch adult swim, but i am the only one i know who owns the banana album...

(that might not be true)

let me go down as highly recommending that you play Sister Ray in a crowded bar at least once in yr life...

if you meet the right people in this world, some of 'em will play it in the bar you're in every week

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

christ's teeth. that's ... decisive.

and surprising, i think.

72/33 - now those are some goddam poll results!

it's not just, but it's not like Stooges lost to Europe or anything.

Not right!

silent majority

Didn't they vote for Nixon?

lou reed is sorta nixonian in his maniacal paranoia

Now there's a connection I've never made before - let's see the big dick lip-synched to Lou!

If you play Stooges at a party, and all you have aside from that in your entire CD/mp3/vinyl collection is butt rock and hair metal, then no. You are not a hipster.

bunch of xpost I've thankfully never said "Sabs" in real life.

(And for the record, I do like lots of Adult Swim (even the dreaded 12 oz. Mouse) and that Flaming Lips movie (what I've seen of it, anyway)).