That whole Placebo/Mansun/Rachel Stamp/King Adora late 90s aesthetic

a) what was that all about
b) why did it happen, was it simply a reaction against perceived "laddishness" in Britpop/grunge/gangsta rap?
c) which bands carry on that tradition now?
d) why was it the worst shit ever?

A) Melody maker
B) Melody maker
C) Rachel Stamp/Placebo still exist?
D) Melody Maker Turned To Shit Around That Time

pretty sure this was eddie izzard's fault

Was it just that indie kids were looking for a way/reason to wear eyeliner and skin-tight mesh? Is this urge satisfied by Fall Out Boy nowadays or is that a different ballgame?

May as well post this link now before anyone else does: http://www.staybeautifulclub.co.uk/biogs.htm

Just beaten re: Stay Beautiful. Which is the most wrongly named club ever.

Maybe it was a response to the failed attempted Yob Rock movement that was a response to the failed Romo attempt of a movement

Pretty much all of the journalists who were pushing romo later went on to push this... dreck as well, right? Was there a pre-romo guliner movement as well then?

*guyliner

Thing that strikes me about this aesthetic is that there was a v high cost to lay out on looking like that--you can't pick that shit up in Top Shop or chazzas.

"Was there a pre-romo gutliner movement as well then?"

Regular 80s-onward goth I guess.

This was all Manic Street Preachers' fault surely, hence the club name?

Was there a pre-romo guyliner movement as well then?

Manics?

But Dom, I thought you were to Placebo what I am to Embrace? Only much more furtively?

And maybe UK scuzz-rock like The Wildhearts (lol Jagger) and Dogs D'Amour. (x-p)

Urban Decay markets itself as an edgy line of products that juxtaposes the glamorous with urban grunge. When the company originated, the product line included lipsticks and nail polishes in non-traditional colors including various shades of green, blue, purple, black, and even off-white. However, in recent years, the company has produced more mainstream items and colors than they did in the 1990s and abandoned the riskier, more gothic/alternative shades that were very likely difficult for them to market. The industrial, non-conformist theme of the brand is still reflected in their current product names though; eyeshadows shades are called such names as "Roach", "Smog", "Strip", "Asphyxia" and "Oil Slick"; lip glosses come with names such as "Gash", "Carney", and "Kinky".

But Dom, I thought you were to Placebo what I am to Embrace? Only much more furtively?

― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 20 October 2008 14:24 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

"Every You Every Me" still fucking bangs, but sometimes you gotta throw out the fat bipolar self-mutilating baby with the bathwater

Thread needs images.

Pretty sure we can just use LBZC members' ex-girlfriends galleries.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l27/staybeautifulclub/5%20Purple%20Turtle%20era%20Oct%202004-present/Purple%20Turtle%20-%20You%20Lot/MarkoandfriendbyJenna.jpg

Juggaloz in da house

Thread needs more than two images.

200 images by 5pm

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/21/l_028a993d175b47aba3e5d6a2ae5304cb.jpg

With those hooker type wears hon you're, playin yaself
With those skin tight jeans baby you're, playin yaself
Everything all exposed you're, playin yaself
You're, playin yaself, you're, playin yaself

Everything all exposed you're, playin yaself
With those skin tight jeans baby you're, playin yaself
With those hooker type wears hon you're, playin yaself
You're, playin yaself, you're, playin yaself

http://profile.ak.facebook.com/v224/1993/69/n33701613_9332.jpg

Whan I lived in York there seemed to be a large amount of Placebo/Stamp types, really out of proportion to the population.

All the young girls in the scene seemed to be going out with horrible 30-something goth guys who would never, ever have got an equivalent girl in another scene. All the young guys were g/fless, presumably till they get to thirty and get to act chickenhawk.

Pretty sure we can just use LBZC members' ex-girlfriends galleries.

sheepish raised hand

Dude from King Adora gave me an amp for nothing once, nice guy

Think this probably arose from the fact that the Manics weren't able to play a gig in a London toilet seven days a week, so a load of imitators sprung up like the Krusty franchises in the clown college episode of the Simpsons

Coldplay were almost part of tail-end of this scene starting out weren't they? Contemporaries of the likes of JJ72 and My Vitriol?

Am I gonna have to defend Mansun again? They're completely unlike the other 3. And Paul Draper is a huge football fan (Everton).

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q52/chrishoodoo/davidhealscopy.jpg

Coldplay were almost part of tail-end of this scene starting out weren't they? Contemporaries of the likes of JJ72 and My Vitriol?

― Neil S, Monday, 20 October 2008 15:15 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

My Vitriol count, definitely. I think by that time though it wasn't "ewww, get that nasty masculine Britpop away from me" as "ewww, get that nasty masculine nu metalaway from me". Although we called nu metal "sports metal" back then.

Kerrang coined Nu-Metal in 1994 with the release of the Korn album. I don't recall hearing the term sports metal until ILM started

Sports metal is much better IMO.

Also TS: Britpop vs. Sports metal.

Why Is "Post 1990 Indie" So Maligned?

Probably My Vitriol and Coldplay were at UCL at the same time. The NME got all excitable about those two and JJ72 and Muse around the same time they gave up on Terris.

I thought JJ72 was more Melody Maker

Divine Davis is totally different--he's actually fucked a man instead of pretending to for a start.

All these bands are more goth, more black vinyl trousers than the Manics though. Much more tank girl.

Divine David obv.

But it's just a scene that doesn't exist outside of a single Nondon pubnow surely?

London

Divine Davis

― Mooncalf (Raw Patrick), Monday, 20 October 2008 15:27 (45 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Guod6Aisal0/RrtX3J_zc7I/AAAAAAAAGoU/FHpdeUvkVWs/samueltweet_2.jpg

I'm gonna be a stopped clock about this...Mansun were from Chester and DIDN'T pull all that cross-dressing pseudo-gay damaged-soul BS, they just camped themselves up a bit 70's style. Their lyrics are overwhelmingly piss-taking, and the music arch without ever being up itself.

And yeh, Every Me Every You is a choon. Can't say much for the rest of their output.

A thread on mansun makes louis act like a liverpool fan on his own threads

Mansun were from Chester and were on the actaully-gay damaged-soul BS.

How come Paul Draper's Fbook preference is "Women" then? Eh?

Double bluff.

Seriously, Mansun's aesthetic was "eccentric lads messing around, playing their audience for the occasional fool and making interesting and not always serious music", not "woe me why do i like men and cut myself"

Please don't edit that into an ILEpitaph.

Narcissism of vanishingly small differences there.

Isn't this about the people that followed them around like puppies more than the bands themselves?

Seriously, Mansun's aesthetic was "eccentric lads messing around, playing their audience for the occasional fool and making interesting and not always serious music", not "woe me why do i like men and cut myself"

― 100 tons of hardrofl beyond zings (Just got offed), Monday, 20 October 2008 15:41 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Death of the author, man. Read up on it.

Facebook doesn't give the option to specify controversial moderator edit

Or what Mencap said, yeah.

xp

Facebook doesn't give the option to specify controversial moderator edit

― Glans Christian Christian christian Christian Andersen (MPx4A), Monday, 20 October 2008 15:43 (4 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00443/Alisher_Usmanov_280_443946a.jpg

"The lyrics aren't supposed to mean a thing, they're just a vehicle for a lovely noise".

Mansun and Placebo were like the main second tier guys after the Manics for the people who were into this shit

Recall Mansun becoming increasingly scared of how ridiculous everyone thought they were, releasing a mature third album that they "hoped would finally catapult them to the same level as U2", and then split up

do you have some kind of cache of Alisher Usmanov images?

I miss the Mansun vs Terris nmechat wars
(not really)

Nah MPx4A, that album was a load of underwritten demos released by the record company with the band's hands tied behind its back, after the remit "make something commercial for the love of god". It stank to high heaven, but the album(s) before it were in my opinion wonderful and yes a little ridiculous. But not in a cliched manner, unlike the rest of the bands here.

And yeah, it's probably true that they garnered some fairly distasteful fans, but why we had to bring Roland B into this...

Not heard Terris.

Were The Libertines actually better than King Adora?

do you have some kind of cache of Alisher Usmanov images?

― Glans Christian Christian christian Christian Andersen (MPx4A), Monday, 20 October 2008 15:47 (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol i've been writing about him at work this morning, he's increased his stake in Russian telco MegaFon.

Aw, where's Stevie Chick's almost-a-defense of Terris? I don't know whose side I would've taken in Terris v Mansun, although Little Kix was shite, so I imagine I'd be rooting for the little guys there.

I liked Mansun! Is the underwritten demos thing the reason the last song just ended halfway through or was that just a terrible idea

I never really though of Mansun as part of this before tbh. They seem slightly earlier. My friend interviewed them for Reading Uni newspaper around early-96ish and used to rave about them which may have something to do with that.

I have never heard Terris. I think I'd already given up listening to the NME/MM about bands by that time, even though I did still read NME when they were pushing them.

I saw Mansun in 1996 in Bristol, and the gig was at that point the best I had ever been to. There was a stage invasion, which blew my teenage mind.

All the young girls in the scene seemed to be going out with horrible 30-something goth guys who would never, ever have got an equivalent girl in another scene. All the young guys were g/fless, presumably till they get to thirty and get to act chickenhawk.

This is terrifyingly accurate and I would like to ignorantly speculate about why? But I've got to go and make tea first.

I quite liked the way the last song ended, it was like some kind of petulant career suicide. Anyway yeah, Parlophone in their infinite wisdom took exception to "Six", even though it was critically praised and sold fairly well, and basically forced the band to record something unambitious, "safe" and marketable. The results were that none of the songs employed the production tricks or layers we'd seen earlier, and worse, they were grabbed at barely-beyond-demo stage before the band could fuck them up. Mansun themselves had little or no say about the record's release. Paul Draper now regards it as a colossal mistake.

Has l0u1s jagg3r ever heard Moon Revolutions by The Young Gods?

No I only got the recent Young Gods album (which is gr8!)

Didn't think much of Terris tho. Already forgotten.

I think I saw Mansun more times than any other band. These gigs took place at progressively smaller and smaller venues

Mansun were thrown into 'New Wave of New Grave' which the NME thought would be a good idea early '97, along with Marion, Placebo, Pusherman and Manics up-to-Holy-Bible, rather than the actual Manics of '97.

I loved Mansun, partly from growing up near Deeside, the idea that a 'local' band could be successful (and great!) blew my 17-yr old mind (I didn't get out much).

I never saw mansun, but The Young Gods were my 1st gig. With laika as support.

I saw Marion in '96, they weren't very good.

I saw Marion at T In The Park in 96 I think and they were good.

Embrace were also in the New Wave Of New Grave list. It lasted about a week.

Pusherman update, thanks to Wikipedia: one of them's now dead, another one is the touring drummer for It's Jo And Danny.

Aw, where's Stevie Chick's almost-a-defense of Terris?

they were GREAT live when I saw them before they got signed, but OH how the album sucked. and the singer was a horrible pretentious empty-headed putz, who got everything that was coming to him.

never thought of My Vitriol as kin to placebo, et al - to me, they were like the posies with extra grunge muscle, which has always been a weak spot. still listen to their early demos on a regular basis, and like their album.

the bands in the thread title were all dreadful though.

I doubt an update on any of these bands would make good reading

I wouldn't really put mansun in w/this either, but this might just be because I like one of Mansun's albums and a couple of their singles, and think the other 3 acts were piss.

Wasn't this all just sub-young-ritchey & nicky posturing? I was trying to remember Placebo the other day when I was driving to a gig and we were trying to remember the worst brit bands ever as part of general long road journey blether. I couldn't remember anything except the singer was called brian and that some review described him as looking like a fat girl with mumps. If you're thinking of rocking the andro-girly-boi look, forget it unless you look like Mike Monroe, circa 1983.

we've got this far down the thread without mentioning Cay and Suede.

If you mention Cay, you have to mention Hole and then it gets weird.

x-post Molko was and is a pillock. There was a great NME interview with him where the journo skewered his pretensions, and called him for misquoting Larkin.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45125000/jpg/_45125101_-2.jpg

http://cdn.okcimg.com/php/load_okc_image.php/images/96x0/546x449/0/4997452241193931774.jpeg___150_500_150_600_08a9f2db_.jpg

oh, you know, Cay were pretty ace.

i just wasted five minutes scanning through the Terris album for a decent track though. would sell, if it was worth the effort.

I remember seeing girls who looked like that (xpost to dom) at hanoi rocks and bauhaus gigs in the early eighties.

The place we were playing on Sat afternoon, in the evening they had the guy from the darkness' new band playing. Among the ppl waiting for that was this guy who looked like pola negri with a beard. I should have taken his photo I guess, he would have fitted right in w/this.

Ive been hoping somethin might show up for the last few years - I remember sittin on the 214, around caledonian road heading to camden, i saw a small figure hunched over gettin onto the bus and fumbling around for coins, i thought that looks so much like Anet - whoever it was she looked pretty weak n washed out - she being a hero of mine I was debating for ages whether to go up to her in case it was her, it was my stop and so i bottled it - big mistake as nothings been heard since. I was 99% sure it was her.....
I was playing in a band about 5 yrs ago n singer n g'friend were in a cafe on baker street (i think) n said Mook had served em, i notice someone else said something about a waitress - perhaps there is some truth in it.........
Keep your eyes peeled,

Posted by Truth Is Invisible on 22 Mar 2008, 14:00

214 doesn't go to Caledonian Road.

Terris' debut EP was fine; Searching For The Switches was a wicked little tune. I dug it out the other week when some old uni friends visited. Sadly, it was absolutely as much Terris as any sane person could ever want to listen to.

read an interview with erol alkan where he said trash started off as a "new wave of new grave" club, funnily enough.

Mansun were totally part of all this shit and it doesn't even remotely matter that Wide Open Space was quite good. All of these bands were just an outlet for insane fans who wrote hundreds of furious letters a week to the NME from the moment A Design For Life came out and they felt betrayed that the Manics now looked like plumbers. Feathered boas, fairy wings, total cultural nadir.

I wasn't there, I only discovered Mansun post-mortem, and tbh I only care for the music. Also fyi I can't *stand* the Manics (or what I've heard of 'em).

And yeah all of this stuff was all over Trash in the early days, think electroclash was a bit of a watershed for this whole crowd really. Around 2002, some of this crowd went with Erol, some went in the Simon Price direction. All that shit Peaches/Har Mar Superstar nonsense mopped up the middle ground.

i think this aesthetic mopped up a lot of otherwise-cut-adrift indie kids, whose tribe options were pretty thin on the ground after britpop had petered out. i definitely flirted with the nail varnish and feather boa set (without actually liking any of the music, apart from maybe mansun a little bit) before finding a way out via belle & sebastian BIG BEAT!!

funny that the strokes et al pulled vaguely on the bi-curious/rentboy chain but did it w/o looking like nitzer ebb fans stranded out of time. how did all that fit into this? not that i care really.

erol alkan, the simon price it's ok to like.

He should start using that on his business cards

i really dig quite a lot of this music. even the largely execrable king adora had one really great song (suffocate). placebo really were awesome in their day, and a surprising amount of post-placebo bands managed to squeeze out one or two worthwhile songs. most of them released by fierce panda, probably

also terris were crap

never thought of My Vitriol as kin to placebo, et al - to me, they were like the posies with extra grunge muscle, which has always been a weak spot. still listen to their early demos on a regular basis, and like their album.

haha it's rare to hear anyone talk about MV without slagging them completely. their first few singles were totally ace! then the singer disappeared up his own ass

Mansun were thrown into 'New Wave of New Grave' which the NME thought would be a good idea early '97, along with Marion, Placebo, Pusherman and Manics up-to-Holy-Bible, rather than the actual Manics of '97.

And now New Grave is back as a genre descriptor! For all that awful Ipso Facto/Experiment on a Bird uin an Airpump/This Tawdry Affair (P Geldof's band)/PiX mag stuff.

Are Ipso Facto no good? IIRC I read descriptions of them that made them sound up my alley, like Broadcast or someone

In case anyone is interested, Anet (from Cay) is fine, after they got dropped from East West
the band sort of fizzled after a while.

Anet and Nick moved back to Holland to get away from London for a while and they have
been back here in London for a few years now, Anet is teaching and Nick is writing music
for television, both are happy and healthy.

Hallelujah.

Snarky

Ipso Facto would be good if they had any tunes, or any stage presence beyond standing still trying to look cool. They're weedy post-goth bollocks, like Neils Children or someone. Nothing like Broadcast.

The bassist is the daughter of Hilton Valentine from The Animals.

Oh well, either someone was chatting shit or I'm thinking of something else anyway...

neils children are closer to surf music than goth. which is to say not really close enough to be described as anything near either

All that shit Peaches/Har Mar Superstar nonsense mopped up the middle ground.

Har Mar recently seen "jamming" with Does It Offend You, Yeah? in a Sydney hipsterteen venue; when you find a niche, you've gotta follow it

neils children are closer to surf music than goth. which is to say not really close enough to be described as anything near either

― thereminimum chips (electricsound), Tuesday, 21 October 2008 09:56 (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Having had the bad luck to see them twice, this is balls.

This quote from a Neils Children press release is a stone classic:

"Sometimes mistaken as a shot at aimless 1970s punk-by-numbers, their sound is a lot more complicated mix of late 1960s underground UK psychedelia, late 1970s post-punk and dub reggae, plus the sensibility of various eras pop music and disco."

That first clause!

ok, but i don't hear any hints of goth in any of their records`

They're so crap they can't even get goth right.

When the Horrors first started they were pretty much Neils Children Juniors, this being the time when Neils Children were vaguely hip, signed to Poptones, appeared in The Rotters Club etc. One of the Horrors eventually took his idolisation of N Children to the limit by wanking one of them off at a party. Whilst the guy was asleep.

Woah/Urgh

http://www.russellbrandfansite.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7404&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=4e17000c82184bf3683eead8d2b0009a

Also, I could have sworn Erol Alkan remixed a few Placebo tracks at some point, but Google seems to doubt me on this.

still like the Freelance Hellraiser remix of 'English Summer Rain'

the mbv remix of pure morning has a considerable v/vm influence

insane fans who wrote hundreds of furious letters a week to the NME from the moment A Design For Life came out and they felt betrayed that the Manics now looked like plumbers. Feathered boas, fairy wings, total cultural nadir.

― Matt DC, Monday, 20 October 2008 21:16

I suspect this foaming antipathy goes some way towards explaining your hate for Steampunk, Matt!

Although actually, I'm not sure you're a huge fan of any musical subculture that involves changing your appearance, no?

Back on track, I got sucked into some of this in the day. Placebo, in their prime - second album, I think - were fantastic and fulfilled the needs of countries full of people who didn't realise they were missing The Cure, Jane's Addiction and indeed early Manics.

I can't think of another boys-in-eyeliner band - how's nobody mentioned Subcircus yet? - who were a whole lot of cop, though. Certainly nobody in that initial list, although the NW1 scene around Rachel Stamp in '99/2000 was wicked fun iirc :-)

I have no particular antipathy for steampunk, mostly because I like Thomas Pynchon's Against The Day and cute girls in Victorian dresses.

Some girl gave me a Rachel Stamp tape once, she'd painted it with red glittery nail varnish and it fucked up my tape player. The music was rubbish if I remember correctly.

Back on track, I got sucked into some of this in the day. Placebo, in their prime - second album, I think - were fantastic and fulfilled the needs of countries full of people who didn't realise they were missing The Cure, Jane's Addiction and indeed early Manics.

― CharlieNo4, Tuesday, 21 October 2008 12:28 (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Placebo were more 50% Sonic Youth 50% T-Rex to my ears.

Remember Serum?

That band Nancy Boy ft. Donovan's son were kinda the US version of this for a second.

them too, dom, yes absolutely.

dandy warhols probably fit in here somewhere - i got into 'come down' about the same time as 'without you i'm nothing', and while the music was far poppier - duran duran/bowie/archies or something - the aesthetic was largely shared.

That band Nancy Boy ft. Donovan's son were kinda the US version of this for a second.

― Mooncalf (Raw Patrick), Tuesday, 21 October 2008 12:39 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I thought Nancy Boy had Mickey Dolenz's son in?

i remember subcircus! their (pretty good) first album was my first review in melody maker.

That was Metal Mickey.

xp

Placebo were more 50% Sonic Youth 50% T-Rex to my ears.

That '20th Century Boy' cover they did for the Velvet Goldmine OST has to be the most pointlessly replicant cover ever - it literally sounds like Molko singing over an instrumental version

Placebo probably would have been more palatable had molko not come across as such a raging asshole and a horrible PONCE* in every music press interview he did ever.

(*Ponce: femmie-looking but 100% hetero boi who plays the "i'm so confused about my sexuality" schtick in order to - usually sucsessfully - get sex.)

My mum told me off for calling someone a ponce once.

Dark days.

Your dad is a ponce though.

His "i'm so confused about my sexuality" schtick worked on my mum, or I wouldn't be here.

wait, your dad is brian molko?

har.

Were Cay anything to do with this, or are people assuming they must've been because admittedly "Nature Creates Freaks" does sound like a total sub-Placebo album title? They didn't sound like any of this stuff, I'd be surprised if they had the look (though I never saw them live, so maybe), and there wasn't any fanbase overlap among the indieists I knew.

I liked 'em (not listened for ages and barely remember the rest of the album, but Neurons Like Brandy was a fierce single; these guys, Stony Sleep and Lammo Colchester favourites Hirameka Hi-Fi were about the only overlap between me and the NME/Lamacq coverage I'd grown up on by 99) and was glad for MaresNest's update. Always thought the Distillers sounded a little bit Cay a few years ago when they were the angsty teens' favourite band, wondered if Cay could really have got somewhere 4 years later or if they were from the US or something.

This post is just a little test to see if anyone remembers Stony Sleep enough to point and laugh.

ugh, i picked up the stony sleep album for a buck, wasn't even worth that. rubbish.

I don't quite see Mansun fitting into this. Mansun were rooted in Britpop, even though they added way more prog to the mix than what was usual at the time.

The music is irrelevant, there were blokes in eyeliner involved and they had the same fans as the other bands.

Were Cay anything to do with this, or are people assuming they must've been because admittedly "Nature Creates Freaks" does sound like a total sub-Placebo album title? They didn't sound like any of this stuff, I'd be surprised if they had the look (though I never saw them live, so maybe), and there wasn't any fanbase overlap among the indieists I knew.

― device may be used to practice dribbling (a passing spacecadet), Wednesday, 22 October 2008 13:38 (40 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

There's a connection, the girls who were into this kinda music were all massive Hole fans, and the "sub-Hole" bands were even more awkward than the sub-Manics fans (qf Cay, Jack Off Jill, etc)

My Vitriol and Cay were pretty close but, yeah, i think both bands were ace, where the bands in the thread title are pretty close to worthless.

Jack Off Jill: worst band name ever?

http://www.geocities.com/satansneighbour667/tairrieb.jpg

^^^lol at her in general

OH GOD TAIRRE B. wait, is that tairre b?
nontheless, awful century media greasepig wank fantasy.

It is early 90s Eazy-E ho and late 90s metal irritant Tairre B, yep.

http://pics1.vampirefreaks.com/k/ki/kit/kittycollartightx/17019407.jpg

Some girl gave me a Rachel Stamp tape once, she'd painted it with red glittery nail varnish and it fucked up my tape player. The music was rubbish if I remember correctly.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 21 October 2008 12:33 (1 month ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^charming biographical slant

I never followed any of this shit (love "Pure Morning" though)...that said, I knew people who did, and my memory is that there was a ton of overlap with stuff I lump together as sort of gothy industrial stuff - like these same people all listened to KMFDM and My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult and God Lives Underwater. I don't know that there's any musical aesthetic that unites these things, but the photos posted to this thread would all apply. Eyeliner and nail polish for boys, fairy wings and kitty ears for girls, horrible dyejobs and black-background band t-shirts for all.

...the next generation, of course, all listened to Evanescence.

didn't notice the jack off jill reference upthread.. never heard them, but scarling (who some of them became) are really good imo

i remembered this thread after listening to 'beehive' by malluka... a classic of this particular genre, take that how you will

nah next generation weeded out the fat girls and listened to electoclash

I was just thinking about how I've never seen most of my favourite bands live, but due to being taken to Southampton Joiners frequently by a friend and camping out at the new bands stages at festivals I managed to see Subcirus, Rachel Stamp, King Adora, Placebo and Southampton's own Scarlet Soho live at least twice each and, yes, what was going on? Why did they all sound like this? What the fuck was I doing when there was other music which I actually might have liked on?