STEELY DAN VS MY BLOODY VALENTINE

Um.

why

gay dad

steely suggest ban

What next, Pussy Galore vs The Beach Boys? Captain Beefheart vs Aaron Neville?
Steely Dan by a mile.

Dan easily.

ugh

Kevin clearly a Steely Dan fan.

Steely Dan by a zillion landslides.

The total number of classic Steely Dan songs > number of classic songs on Loveless != all the songs on Loveless

Therefore, Steely Dan.
QED

i'd say MBV had the better "great song" density, though. at least on their LPs

Nate Dogg

Its a pretty absurd match. I chose not so much on the artist's corpus of work, but on the influence they had. Steely Dan is pretty singular in pop music, in the sense that younger bands recognized that they could not compete in that field, but MBV has inspired lesser bands for 20 years.

by the same token, you could say that their followers' collective failure to recreate what made them great make MBV great.
that was a terrible sentence, sorry.

I used to call the Lily's debut "In the Presence of MBV". The current victor is the Fleeting Joy's "Despondant Transponder". MBV's sound is easier to emulate. You need listen closely, but you don't need tens of thousands for superb jazzbo musicians, or Fagen's ground to an edge cynicism. MBV is easier to copy.

On the other hand, if one of the purposes of music is to transport us to emotional states that would be unavailable without its assistance, MBV is clearly capable of that sort of transcendance, while the Dan comfort of in well crafted evocations of our bitter memories.

er comfort US in well blah blah.

at least the lilys remembered to write some tunes, something the fleeting joys are barely able to cope with

Fleeting Joys are more hit and miss. Granted. But they have the sound absolutely DOWN. The following would fit seamlessly on any MBV release from 1990 on:

oh man. that's so...blatant.

Yeah. I posted that as just an illustration. The Fleeting Joys, with all due respect to any members/fans that may read this, provided one of many fixes for my MBV habit, and I hope they incorporate some other ideas in the future.

I'm more enamored by bands that have have taken the JAMC/MBV restructuring of rock priorities and migrated elsewhere from there. Seefeel, Sweet Trip, and more recently A Sunny Day in Glasgow are doing interesting hybridizations with electronica. The important thing is that MBV (and the other 1st generation 'gazers) could potentially be considered a sort of year 0 (like '77 punk). '77 punk was a negation of instrumental virtuosity that made the riff primarary, permitting a flowering of naive creativity (I think most here would consider 79-82 or so an extraordinary period for pop and bubbling under musics). Shoegaze was a negation of the riff, making texture primary. Its sort of a stillborn promise, as the listening public and the bands themselves became indifferent/exhausted, and overreverent followers just reiterated the discoveries. But I think shoegaze/wall of riffless effected guitar remains, potentially, a pretty fertile field.

Steely Dan, on the other hand, is more sui generis. I can't hear it without hearing a context that won't return - post-sexual revolution, embittered former hippies living in LA. Its a microscope on that world, those characters, and the albums they listened to. I can't really say if its a aesthetic dead end. But the chronological progression in Steely Dan albums is to more considered, more 'tasteful', more pure. A music in which ever smaller gestures are weighted down with greater import.

So, maybe I choose MBV over Steely Dan because MBV spawned a sound that is incomplete. Steely Dan reached a sort of apex, in which any adulteration is a contamination.

great post

MBV because Steely Dan are to me the audio equivalent of being molested by your drunken dad in your double-wide trailer while you're sleeping

Dan vs. Din. Dan wins.

this should be in no way a fair fight - din for ever.

however, the dan will inevitably triumph. and their victory will be creepy and wrong.

Dan.

actually, judging by the pictures here this is a tough one.

Nate Dogg

Nate Dogg over Soon/Peg mshup

Steely Dan can suck cock.

I mean even Dan Fogelberg can stomp all over Steely Dan. Come on!!!

Steely Dan is pretty singular in pop music, in the sense that younger bands recognized that they could not compete in that field

Among those who tried - at least to some extent - are Toto, David + David, Deacon Blue and Danny Wilson.

... and failed miserably.

Steely Dan by the largest margin yet in one of these stupid Blah vs. Blah polls.

fuck Steely Dan!

i think there's only one band that would beat steely dan in one of these polls for me

it's not mbv

i'd say MBV had the better "great song" density, though. at least on their LPs

― Kevin Keller, Wednesday, October 22, 2008 12:47 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

no way.

steely dan >>> mbv

i've never got into steely dan, got any recommendations?

Yes, start with Citizen Steely Dan.

Can't Buy a Thrill is my favorite

Mine too!

If you just want a single album to try, you could do a lot worse than Katy Lied, which comes square in the middle of their career (or at least the original 1972-80 phase) -- it's a little smoother than some of the early rock stuff but not as offputting, perhaps, as the slick jazz sound on the later albums. (NB: I like pretty much everything the band's done, but I can see how someone might run away from them upon hearing a song like "Aja").

Royal Scam is tops for me. Way smarter than Loveless. Though I like that too.

Listen to jaymc and not Nate. I love Steely Dan, but I think the least of The Royal Scam. Katy Lied, yes, a thousand times.

MBV because Steely Dan are to me the audio equivalent of being molested by your drunken dad in your double-wide trailer while you're sleeping

So true.

fuck i just actually voted in this shit-for-brains poll

shoot me now

if only..

Fuck a MBV with their *one* good album and tinnitis-inducing static.

Steely Dan by a zillion landslides.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, October 21, 2008 6:47 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

stupid poll

i love you too latebloomer

Must vote...

It's a shame that there's a few people on here with such a wide knowledge of music (not myself necessarily -- I learn from you guys) because the majority of the people on this board are what I imagine to be the biggest hipster douches in the world: I KNOW that 98% of you would honestly pick MBV in this matchup, but the contrarian "not-trend-follower" bullshit stance you take put on will probably lead Steely Dan to win.

one of the many things wrong with that argument is that at this point, on this board, it would be way more contrarian to vote for MBV

yeah, it'd be anti-contrarian or something. contrarian squared.

Steely Dan can suck cock gargle my balls.

Two years ago I'd have said MBV no question. But since rounding out my Dan classic era vinyl, I'll have to think long and hard about my answer.

i love you too latebloomer

― Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:38 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i was pretty cranky when i wrote that. nothing personal.

I was miffed that the poll's inevitable SD landslide is gonna make me defensive for preferring MBV.

I KNOW that 98% of you would honestly pick MBV in this matchup

guys he has looked into the eyes of ILM and he sees three letters

D-A-N

It's a vote! It's private!

You can vote whichever way you want to!

The winner does not get to run the country!

It's alright!

It's a shame that there's a few people on here with such a wide knowledge of music (not myself necessarily -- I learn from you guys) because the majority of the people on this board are what I imagine to be the biggest hipster douches in the world: I KNOW that 98% of you would honestly pick MBV in this matchup, but the contrarian "not-trend-follower" bullshit stance you take put on will probably lead Steely Dan to win.

― Reatards Unite, Wednesday, October 29, 2008 4:06 AM (12 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

you know, this post kind of bothers me.

these are both GREAT bands, full stop. I think MBV is great, such a distinctive sound and "Loveless" is a record I have really loved and would not want to give up owning it for any reason.

But, that said, there's a whole bunch of - to me - really obvious ways in which Steely Dan, as a whole, is just better. This is not me trying to be contrarian or whatever weird strawman jive you've concocted in your head, just (to me) common sense and obvious reasons. (obv "common sense" to one person could be bullshit to another but hey it's my opinion. So here's my reasons:

1) sheer amount of songs I love. Steely Dan has more albums. More songs I like, and were consistent over a long period of time with (to my ears) really NO clunkers (in their 70s era obv, but I would also defend the newer stuff)

2) Both have distinctive sort of sonic footprints - Steely's air conditioned studio perfection vs. MBV's ethereal noise, etc etc...maybe this is a "tie" but I feel like Steely in their way is every bit as distinctive sonically as MBV

3) Emotional impact - Steely is more of a songwriting band, and honestly they've just written so many great pop songs that hit me on a very emotional level. I can't imagine not be able to listen to "Dr. Wu" or "Rose Darling" again, they are so sad and just staggering to me...while I love MBV, they are something that I tend to admire with my head more than feel.

4) Lyrics. I guess it's considered sort of dorky or passe to care about lyrics a lot, and they don't always matter -- a lot of times they don't -- but when you can combine great lyrics with great music to me the sum total is more than when you just have one....there's not a ton of lyricist that I really rate enough to actively pay attention to and care about, but Fagan is definitely one of them...His malice, his oddity...the weird shards of vestigial beat poetry that stick out like little knives in these smooth pop songs....at his best, i'd put him up there with Dylan or anyone, frankly.

6) this is sort of a sidepoint, but I do feel like if i had to give up one or the other, i could more easily replace the things MBV gives me than the things SD gives me...like hell, I guess I could roll with Bark Psychosis or that one Ride record I love if I couldn't listen to MBV...there's really no replacing Steely Dan, they are so completely unique and just terrifyingly brilliant as compared to any other "lite jazz rock" shit they ever get lumped in with.

So yeah, for me it simply must be steely

basically what M@tt said

that was a great post!

good post matt, even if i would take MBV personally

m@tt brings the sanity at last! also, maybe RU thinks we're all in our 20s on this board?

in a way it really does boil down to MBV being great sonically but completely non-participatory lyrically, while SD slays in both categories. Plus SD's catalog is what, 10x larger than MBVs? MBV loses.

iow Matt OTM

[]

^^^ILM's favorite Steely Dan song

"king of the world" is my champagne jam off of countdown to ecstasy

I would just like to say that damn Fagan is one ugly dude

He looks like he could be related to Jeff Goldblum = not an ugly dude

He looks like he could be related to Jeff Goldblum = not an ugly dude

fixed

Gruff SFA also...

actually I think it's more David Copperfield
http://noted.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/donaldfagenpiano.jpg
still don't think he's the ugly dude in SD

well yeah to be fair they're all ugly. shit the best looking one was probably Skunk Baxter!

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

No worries latebloomer

A music in which ever smaller gestures are weighted down with greater import.

― derelict, Wednesday, October 22, 2008 12:16 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I keep coming back to this line - it's a completely fascinating description of Steely Dan , especially later period albums like Gaucho.

Were they minimalist pioneers?

I've been thinking about the recent outpouring of love for Gaucho on ILM. Does anyone else on here feel like the growing "hipster" acceptance of this album is linked to the popularity of stuff like the Italians Do It Better label? To me, the icy cool of some of those Italo tracks has a similar vibe to songs like "Babylon Sister" and "Glamour Profession".

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaha

hopefully a lesson has been learned, viz. don't make retarded polls like this or corny indie fuxxors like myself will roll up and vote MBV out of corny indie defiance

srsly

ok srsly fuck ILM

jesus christ can this board not go five minutes without mentioning steely dan

yeah and this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

obligatory new Steely Dan thread

WTF i voted for steely dan like 5 times in this poll.

ok srsly fuck ILM

― Black Seinfeld (HI DERE), Friday, 31 October 2008 11:05 (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah but jagger voted for mbv about fifteen times

lol i voted once, it was a reflex action, and i felt filthy

i mean this is just stupid whichever way you look at it tbh

it's so bizarre and dissonant to me that that slick-ass, tuneless mid-70s Doobie Brothers-sounding youtube video is something that ILMers don't belly-laugh to

T|S ILX's Bizarre Fixation with Steely Dan V. ILX's Bizarre Fixation with Kenan Thompson

― Dog/Face/Chain (res)

^^^suggest ban 4 life

Tuneless? Your ears must be blocked.

^^^suggest ban 4 life

I like how people on this board use the word "ban" like Sarah Palin uses the word "terrorist"; recklessly, and with an intent to silence criticism.

this is the greatest day of my life!

I like how people on this board use the word "ban" like Sarah Palin uses the word "terrorist"; recklessly, and with an intent to silence criticism.

― Dog/Face/Chain (res)

^^^suggest ban 4 life

banning is scary...

^^^ suggest Palin 4 life

the important thing to remember about mbv is how great it was when we were all young

lol

YES!!

YesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesYES!!!!

Flag waving yes!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/MarkGrout/festivalb.jpg

fuck an ilm

let's have a recount poll

don't be a bad loser...

I think they should do a split 7" where they cover each other's songs.

I voted Dan btw.

*snort of delirious victory*

I like both bands, but this is funny.

Are people really angry that SD lost?

I voted for them, and even thought they may win. But I don't think it's a really big deal either way.

I don't understand why this thread would generate so much animosity - different people like different things.

(ppl are comedy-angry that Steely Dan lost)

I'm just serious-happy MBV won.

FUCK THIS.

fuck what? I can't see anything...

http://i.realone.com/assets/rn/img/9/4/3/9/9099349-9099352-slarge.jpg

did you realize
that you were
a champion
in their eyes?

Victory For Indie!

they made me realise!!!

http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/music/artists/fagen.jpg

Look in my eyes
Can't you see the core is frozen?
You can't ask me to access the
dreams I don't have now
Sadly for us
Our little talk is over
So together we'll endure the
tyranny of the disallowed

http://www.smoothvibes.com/movabletype/img/DonaldFagen.jpg

From their boats of iron
They looked upon the promised land
Where surely life was sweet
On the rising tide
To new york city
Did they ride into the street
See the glory
Of the royal scam

http://blog.mojo4music.com/blog/281x211.jpg

It's nothing you can do about
It was there where you came out
Its a special lack of grace
I can see it in your face

I can see by what you carry that you come from Barrytown

http://www.puredrdot.com/star1/star288n.jpg

You can try to run
but you cant hide
from what's inside of you

the Dan

http://www.freewilliamsburg.com/archives/steely-dan-seventies.gif

No marigolds in the promised land
There's a hole in the ground
Where they used to grow
Any man left on the Rio Grande
Is the king of the world
As far as I know

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/dcspeed1/Music%20Movie/steely_dan_1.jpg

I know this super highway
This bright familiar sun
I guess that I'm the lucky one
Who wrote that tired sea song
Set on this peaceful shore
You think you've heard this one before

Who are these children
Who scheme and run wild?
Who speak with their wings
And the way that they smile

and thus ilm is torn asunder

now imagine the upset when RATM wins over Steely Dan

well, that would actually be an upset.

Steely Dan are one of those ILM canon bands that I really don't get the insane love for.

that's the point

I just spent way too long searching for the Dokaka cover of "Peg." I don't think it's online anymore.

it's a glamour profession