"Smells Like Teen Spirit" - Classic Or Dud?

oh, sure, if it's on the radio, i'll do some mock-rocking out with the quiet-to-LOUD part (just where did they discover *that* particular dynamic?) but that's only if there's someone else in the car and i can amuse them. as far as i'm concerned, the opening is the litmus test: it either grabs you or it doesn't. it's a nice touch going from the acoustic strum to the plugged-in BURST -- credit for the dynamics, again -- but that's all it is for me, and all nirvana has *ever* been for me: the pixies sans the fun.

About whether the song still holds up, I'm probably the wrong person to ask. I mean, I get nostalgic when I hear a fucking BUSH song on the radio these days. I don't own Nevermind anymore, I only have "Lounge Act" on mp3, but everytime "Smells Like Teen Spirit" comes on the radio I turn it up. It's probably like whatever "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" was to my dad, which is kind of pathetic. But my question is, if "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is the "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" of its generation, does that make "Baby, One More Time" the "Sugar, Sugar" of its generation?

And by the way, how much *fun* were the Pixies? When I think fun music, I think something like Wilson Pickett, or Basement Jaxx, not "Where is My Mind", or even the goofy surf instrumentals.

as far as fun music goes, sure, the pixies aren't clarence carter or abba, but listen to "debaser" and tell me that's not the sound of a band having a good time.

josh: sorry, i didn't know you were so sensitive, but you do like indie, so i should've known better. anyhow, the pixies comparison became force of habit because it's true, mainly. kurt cobain calling "smells like teen spirit" a pixies rip only helped things.

Anyhow, I think that if you liked the song then, you'll like it now. If you hated the song then, you'll hate it now. I'd sooner listen to Jeremy than Smells Like Teen Spirit, but that's me. As for Tom's actual questions:

1) It never actually worked for me, as I said, but I'll consider it a museum piece for a period in history upon which chart music was at its lowest point ever, and a band like Nirvana could actually have a hit.

2) It never had anything to tell us. It's a fairly nonsensical song sung in a mush mouth fashion.

There ya go. Your mileage may vary.

What none of you have brought up is how fucking godhead Leif Garrett is singing the song on the last Melvins album. I can play it alongside "I Was Made For Dancing" and it stands up fine, and that's all you can ask of a song.

Anyhow, Josh: The question was not "What does Nirvana's fans and their response tell us anymore?", it was what does the song tell us. It was never a song about anything. It is, of course, much like how the Smiths are supposedly about being depressed and ridiculous, yet I find their songs funny and I bet Morrissey does too. I don't think Kurt Cobain was trying to tell us anything; I think he was trying to make a headbangers song. Which he succeeded to do. The only reason it "means" anything today besides the fact that it marked a successful headbangers song is because the man is dead. Cf Double Fantasy.

Any meaning which can be garnered from the song which is outside the lyrics is wholly personal. Indeed the majority of meaning from most songs garnered from the lyrics is pretty much personal too. We're reading outside the text after all.

Nevertheless - that intro. Those quiet bits. Those noisy bits. Its Moshpit 101 and should be praised for that.

ANYTHING to do with culture will invariably be interepreted a million different ways by a million different people and you trying to attach a hard and fast, cut and dry, black and white universal "cultural meaning" to the way Smells Like Teen Spirit sounds isn't going to win any debate.

If it means something to you, fan-fuckin-tastic. It doesn't to me, as I come from a completely different background. Got it? Good. End of semi-rant.

Re: my own feelings. After having heard about it for a bit, I was introduced to it at KLA in UCLA mid-September 1991. Thought it was all right. Grew on me more with time, but not being a huge Pixies fan at that point either I didn't have an opinion on that subject. If anything I was bemused by the Police comparisons. Which are sort of accurate.

I think Kris' description suits it best. Very much an of-a-time of-a-place it-is-everywhere phenomenon that effortlessly calls back said time upon initial hearing. Haven't bothered playing it, that album or anything by them in years. The kid on the cover is what, ten now?

What could those "better moments" in the winter of 1991 have possibly meant to a fifteen year old suburban kid for whom the nearest EIGHTEEN AND OVER club was 30 miles away? Other than in urban areas with lots of twentysomethings (a demographic which in this country hardly even existed before dot-communism), it's hardly a mystery why thump thump knob- twiddle never had much currency to us, other than the arena friendly bits (and I mean sports arenas, not rock arenas). Moshing IS a kind of dancing; Nirvana WAS a new thing insofar as now any kid who wanted to be a punk or a metalhead could be one without picking up a skateboard or lighting a joint, they just had to buy the CD. The sound was tremendously empowering in that way, something hardcore techno (or early post rock, or whatever you're referring to) could NEVER have been to us, even if there was a way for us to hear any of it. Again, I sound like R Meltzer describing the fucking Beatles, so I'll just stop.

Around 2 years ago, Mary-Ann-Hobbes on her Radio 1 Breezeblock show played Smells Like Teen Spirit (this was when it still went out fairly early and had more listeners that now), and was inundated for the remainder of the show from people desperate to find out what this tune was, and when it was coming out.

Apparently that night they had the most calls and email they have ever received.

i was a 12-year-old rock critic zeppelin/doors/hendrix fan who thought rock was dead. i mean, r.e.m. was fine and dandy in a beatles way but they didn't really *rock.* and i'd seen punk and alternative rock and commercial industrial music on citylimits, the muchmusic alternative show, but who really listened to that? (smart, arty, and unhappy college students who wore black, from what tv told me.) some of it may have grown on me with more regular exposure. (i didn't really have disposable income or parents willing to buy pop albums).

i'd already read the glowing reviews of _nevermind_ and was eager to hear it. when i heard "teen spirit" on the local rock station it seemed like rock was really renewed: something genuinely fresh was here with as much raw emotion as any classic stuff. i dubbed the album from a friend and liked it quite a bit for a while. it seemed burned-out and bummed in a way none of my dubbed albums were. guitar teachers despised them.

it didn't take too long -- soon after everyone else liked them actually -- before i turned against them for lacking musical depth (i'm still not sure how much of this was motivated by musical snobbery and how much by genuine boredom -- a bit of both, i think). i hung onto my soundgarden tape in an unfortunately reactionary move. i know i still felt something when i heard the nirvana songs on the radio.

3 years later, after i'd been listening to college radio and had got into the sex pistols and sonic youth and had turned against zeppelin for being bloated etc (and was at a more appropriately angsty age), the _unplugged_ videos started playing and seemed immediately evocative and touching. i got _in utero_ and _unplugged_ for christmas and they remained among my most played albums for at least a year.

maybe 4 years after that, i picked up a used cassette copy of _nevermind_. i liked it in a sad-pop way for a while.

now: _nevermind_ is ok. i listen to it now and then. my main issue is the production, which really weakens it. with better production, actually, it could possibly be as good or better than _in utero_. its strengths are melody and lyrics. i agree the "teen spirit" (or other) lyrics aren't that obscure. i thought the "mulatto" and "albino" bits are about not fitting in and standing out in an obvious way. "teen spirit" is a decent tune. boston stole the riff from "louie louie." _in utero_ and _unplugged_ are still powerful.

Sometimes, I believe that I'm the only person in the world that's ever hated Nirvana.....oh well. Grunge was a load of old bollocks. Oh, he's dead. That wasn't very responible!

So I think this song could be considered as a classic. but nirvana isn't.

Ludo

Otis, you lost your clothes? What the hell? Only hippies go naked.

Well, that's not true at all but I figured I'd say it anyhow.

Nevermind came out just about when I got to college, which was the first time I was ever away from home. I had developed some rather avant-garde listening tastes on my own in the way of Cowboy Junkies and Dead Kennedy's (which are pretty far out bands if you come from Church Point, Louisiana), but in college I had the chance to meet and hang out with lots of different people and get hip to lots of new and different ideas. I had been a metal head as a kid, a devout Ozzy fan, and I always ALWAYS watched Headbanger's Ball on Saturday Nights.

One night, while home on the weekend from college, I was up late as usual watching the Ball, when Nirvana's video for Smells Like Teen Spirit came on. I was utterly transfixed. I had never heard a rock song that sounded like this before.

Those that plow over the same tired row saying that Nirvana is a Pixies ripoff band weren't listening to this song with their hearts, they were listening to it with their heads. It was the perfect fusion of punk and heavy metal, and it created a whole new type of rock in an instant. The thought I had in my mind when I listened to it was "this is the last song that will ever be written" and in my mind, it was. With Nevermind, pop was dead. Everything that has been released since has simply been a recycling of old ideas in a Frankenstein monster amalgam that has a different form, but no soul.

That period of time was a great one for rock music. Soundgarden's Badmotorfinger, Pearl Jam's Ten, Alice in Chains Facelift, Helmet's Meantime; never in rock history so many truly classic records come out at practically the same time. Unfortunately, the information age occured at the same time, so the normal nascent developtment time that artists of this type would have had did not happen, and they were all thrust in to the limelight of world exposure before their youthful angst could be channeled in more focused and solid efforts.

The one Seattle band that escaped this trap was the Melvins, who had already put out a respectable catalog of music, and had worked out the kinks in their sound by the time they landed their deal with Atlantic, in time for them to create their two best records Houdini and Stoner Witch.

It was a great time to be a kid from a little town in college, with lots of great music and great concerts to be experienced. Nirvana's SLTS was the launching pad for this music revolution. Though the candle that burned brightly burned quickly, the early nineties was a turning point in pop music. Nothing even close to the quality and character of the rock of this time has been produced since.

I think it is impossible NOT to consider SLTS a classic, if only from a purely historical standpoint. I don't like the Eagles, Bob Dylan, the Beatles or Eric Clapton, but I don't deny their vital role in shaping the sound of rock music. Simply because Nirvana didn't stick around long enough to make the rounds at state fairs when they got old and fat and bald doesn't mean that they didn't make history. They did.

Everyone has an opinion about what the defining song of the 60's is, the same goes for the 70's and the 80's. But only true snobs can deny that Smells Like Teen Spirit is the defining song of the 90's.

Love, Jeff

So basically what Cobain said was= we are alienated from society. Big fucking deal! Isn't this Kurt guy so insightful blah blah...

Ha! "U Stink But I Love U" VS "Smells Like Teen Spirit" FITE!

Ill put on some big names on it but im sure other persons know way more than i do: Air, Alex Gopher, Cassius, Daft Punk, Dimitri From Paris, Etienne de Crecy, Laurent Garnier, St Germain

-matt

cliff notes on mypost: thumbs up

Read the biography/autobiography of Kurt and all will make sense. Its a good book, and explains a lot about his life, and how his songs and lyrics came to be.

A freshly plucked, sweet smelling bunch at that.

Read the biography/autobiography of Kurt and all will make sense.

You are reading the words of Charles Cross, Springsteen apologist = you are cursed.

this song was created by pynchon you know

It's not possible for me to be objective about something so emotionally laden. So a nostalgic thumbs up from me. I THINK it's a classic.

NB three other kids in the car, roughly same age group, all comparably disinterested -- they go through the room for Slim Shady though ;)

More on Kurt's diaries: Newsweek, Observer

It was to me what a hundred songs were to a hundred generations, a starter's gun, a notice that this group of kids had more in common with each other than even with their like-minded older brothers and sisters. They didn't get it, they didn't have it, and now no-one else wants it. It's still great. The first few chords of it thrown into Moulin Rouge hit with an almost physical force.

This is a criminally stupid thing to say.

SLTS: F minor, B-flat minor, A-flat major, D-flat major (which, IIRC, resolves back to F minor 2nd inversion). i-iv-iii-VI(i)

MTAF: G major, C major, E minor, D major. I-IV-vi-V.

So to me, SLTS was a spark of hope that quickly turned into disappointment by the mid-90s.

*is so full of hate*

*is so full of hate*

e - x
b - x
g - x
d - 3
a - 3
e - 1

just wonderin'... i haven't heard the song in a while (thank god) but can't imagine that KC's intentions would necessarily be theory-aligned.

Closely followed by the great FurQ.

what if the opening F is indeed major and the key changes mid-measure from F-major to whatever (is it G#?)...

the only reason i'm propping this argument up is because i was schooled in music that did not follow traditional convention (erm, *hardcore*), and just because a chord progression includes another chord up 3 tones does not automatically dictate that the previous chord was its relative minor... esp. when dealing with power chords of the grunge superstar variety.

Relative minor is related to this only because I rewrote the chord progression so that they were related to a home key (F minor) rather than a series of unrelated chords. The reason they sound so good together is because they naturally lead into each other.

I don't know. it's an OK song. I guess I'm just more of a "Bastards of Young"/"Groove is in the Heart" kinda guy when it comes to my personal generation anthems.

Why does no one get the lyrics? They're mostly very literal, and those that aren't have obvioua meanings.

But the rest of grunge, the world could have done without.

And the irony is that Nirvana never asked to be chosen, but the song still rocks, though. My guess is that the bored and broke masses could identify with the apathy in the lyrics. Since there are both of those folks than the employed and older ones, it had an opportunity to race up the charts...frightening record execs everywhere.

wat kurt said was right ,evry rock band are stupid entertainers

Asshats.

“Ya know, I always thought mother LICKED ‘em clean.”

I hated this song when it first came out - mostly because I hated the kind of people who were into it and thought it was all just a big wank. Recently I started writing a Masters thesis about it (which is now nearing completion), mostly sparked by Soulwax's mash-up "Smells Like Bootylicious." I have since found that the more I research into and analyse it, the more I love it. I now understand why it was so huge at the time, being a perfect mix of pop, punk, grunge and metal. The melody is crafted so beautifully and simply - mirroring their intention (as Grohl is quoted as saying) of writing simple songs, like the songs you remember from childhood - but the vocal delivery and dynamism deliver a level of electricity that was sorely missing in music at the time.

If you look at the drafts of the lyrics in his recently published journal, Cobain obviously worked quite hard at crafting lyrics that were intentionally ambiguous and open to interpretation - hence its broad appeal. You can take whatever meaning you want from them, and his constant alternation between "I" and "we" speaks to anyone feeling alone or disenfranchised and includes them as part of a larger group. As to the argument that they were unintelligible (I only found out what they were when I started researching the song) I think it's largely irrelevant: the words were widely available in print and were in fact released in the liner notes for the Lithium single. Besides, it's the mode of delivery that conveys more meaning than the words themselves. As Butch Vig has pointed out in a number of interviews: you're not quite sure what he's saying, but you know he's saying something, and it's as intense as hell.

I doubt any of those involved in the discussion about the actual chords are still reading this thread, but anyway, my belief is that the chords themselves are largely irrelevant - it's the voiceleading of the melodic lines that outline key and carry the momentum. The basic riff essentially outlines an f-minor chord with embellishments leading from scale degree 1 (F), then falling chromatically from 4 to the minor 3rd (Bb - A - Ab), up to the minor 6th (Db) which then falls briefly (although not always) onto the 5th (C) which automatically wants to resolve back to the F (dominant to tonic). The vocal melody of the verse stays within the range of an octave and outlines the aeolian mode in F (also known as a natural minor, which means the leading note is flattened, making it sound a bit more tonally ambiguous) and the chorus also emphasises F, strengthening this supposition of F as the key area.

The reason the break (after the verse) sounds so different is because it brings in the flattened 2nd degree (Gb), thus changing the mode to phrygian - very commonly used by metal bands to evoke instability and drama.

As for the "Anthem for Generation X" moniker, if you look at the literature about that generation prior to the release of the song, you will see that it fit pretty much precisely everything that was said to be missing for that generation. They were still finding their voice and trying to define themselves in the enormous shadow of the baby-boomers and the cultural upheaval of the 60s-70s. Very little of mainstream culture was made for or about them and they felt frustrated by the hypocrisy they saw all around them. If anything, it was a backlash against the crass commercialism of the 80s and if you look at the rest of the music in the charts at the time and the film clips being played on MTV at the time, it really was a breath of fresh air. It was never intended to become the monster it did, but Cobain did write the songs on that album wanting to reach a large audience. He just underestimated his own communicative power.

My personal feeling is this song will always be relevant for any person who feels frustrated and impotent in their life. It obviously still has some social currency if you look at how it is still used today to evoke certain associations - Seth Cohen has a Nirvana poster on his wall in The O.C.; the opening riff is still used as an indicator of teen rebellion and unity; it is sampled sardonically by many DJs (such as Soulwax) to question the very ideas of meaning, creativity and authenticity prevelant in the rock aesthetic. In this way it is still very much alive.

according to several biographies and personal "diaries" we can assume that kurt cobain was a big poser. he tattooed the k record logo on his arm to fit in with the olympia crowd. then when he failed to live up to sonic youth bolstering, he ripped off the perenial college radio favorites (the easy pick outside of r.e.m. "kings of resignation") the pixies and turned it into a one hit wonder. unfortunately for us there was some sort of "movement" behind that fluke. sonic youth had toured for years, american college radio had begun to flourish with expectional distribution from homestead, sst, and birth of sub pop + matatdor etc, and tons of credible (though some argue typically) english groups had been creeping into the lower depths of american charts for most of the 80s. so suddenly a cluster of half-wits from nowheresville, washington state come strutting up the pop music runways pretending not to care. an easy score for a+r, booking agents, unscrupulous managers, and people looking to cash in on thermal underwear. and true to form of a post morton downey, jr world (that was the early 90s) we got our first taste of random and seemingly credible bullshit on the charts. not the first to come of course, but a really leftfield yet appropriate pick for a position as vacant as such.

now suddenly we have a generation of people who, unlike the previous, are unable to renounce a youthful indulgence on par with "growing up with the grateful dead". perhaps even worse if you ask me.

nirvana is simply shit. grow up and listen to the records. i liked 'em as a kid and even stood by that pile of bullshit into my early 20s. but now i can say in hindsight that it's a lot of overblown, mind-numbing crap.

the first hint should've been bush and seven mary three, but it took me way too long to realize that it's simply fucking garbage (the band, too).

maybe you need to be on the I Hate Music site, will post url later...

hahahahahahahaha.

Heard this song the other day. Still great.

Retuned to a major key...

https://vimeo.com/249694026

lol

Sounds like Better Than Ezra :)

It sounds even more like Boston this way.

The bounce underneath the verses sounds like No Doubt

i thought this been done before, found this which definitely doesn't sound like it's been sprinkled with magic catchy dust. Any passing music theorists care to explain?

https://youtu.be/g_TEOuyPDNo

that rabbit hole took an interesting turn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSAp9sBzPbc

oh hell yeah i love that subgenre of pitchshifted pop songs where all the notes are the same

my coworkers have nowhere near the appreciation for this subgenre than I do. (speaker privileges have just been revoked)

haha

Drop that Rick Astley track down to A and you'd have Joy Division.

Finally watched "Teen Sprite" today. Smiled from start to finish--loved it. I don't know enough about chords and stuff to know if it is indeed a transposition or if it's a wholesale remake and not really what it claims to be. But it's close enough to get me thinking the obvious, how different history would been if that had been put out instead. (And I realize some people will consider that notion silly, and will say that history would have proceeded no differently at all.)

alternative reality William S. Burroughs: "There's something wrong with that boy. He smiles for no reason."

teen sprite gets an A

in some weird way, it finally sounds as the ultimate pixies rip off song he was trying to write

I might be stepping in it but I'm pretty sure it's mostly a careful recreation, not pitchshifting

Yup definitely not a simple major chords transposition but the result is really fun/good!

Yeah parts of it sound recreated but the vocal seems genuine

Albeit pitchshifted

I have to imagine a ton of practicing / rehearsing has to go into something like that, when you’re confounding your own expectations at almost every interval

I love this song. Don't know how they did this without an isolated vocal. Will try to dissect it with my guitar teacher next week and figure out what they did.

the vocals are obviously the originals pitch shifted, the stems for SLTS are easily accessible

any song in a Guitar Hero type game has its stems readily available on the internet

stems!

it starts off kind of cool but once the verse starts going it doesn't really sound convincing. i think it's a little like SNL, sometimes the ideas people come up with are really only good enough to last 15 seconds or so but you can always count on people wanting to waste time on the internet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEzrxoy09B0

ftw i prefer the Abigail version

nothing will ever top this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2gj4pwaUuc

lol

the vocals are obviously the originals pitch shifted, the stems for SLTS are easily accessible

I dunno, I think it's the work of a (talented) soundalike. Some of the phrasing is off, in particular on "oh well, whatever, never mind".

The Rick Astley track is kind of awesome. It's interesting how its monochromaticism imposes a sort of minimal techno vibe on one of SAW's frothiest confections.

feel like this has to be posted here now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAYV3d9fSW8

flappy bird that video is sooooo funny i laughed like a dork for the entire video.

this merits a listen imo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snC4ZtW9dHI

doesn't quite achieve the heights of "imagine" / "jump" mash up (essential btw), but it's p good

I dunno, I think it's the work of a (talented) soundalike. Some of the phrasing is off, in particular on "oh well, whatever, never mind".

― Vast Halo

no, those are absolutely the original vocals. the phrasing and delivery throughout the song is identical. it sounds like there could be some doubling on the "hello, hello" parts, but these are the original vocals. i agree "oh well whatever nevermind" sounds strange, that might've been punched in or doubled. but largely the vocals are the originals, i can say with certainty. i can also say with certainty upon further listening that everything else (except the drums) is a complete recreation.

totally agree with flappy

apparently the guy kept the drums, *re-recorded the guitar parts*, and then pitch-shifted the vocals to match

i am not the guy fwiw. i got that from another board

word

was really weird when Foo Fighters performed the Never Gonna Give You Up/Teen Spirit mash-up with Astley a few times last year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdkCEioCp24

Slow start to the year, it seems!

BTW, I'm 14 and I've only recently become a Nirvana fan (and no, it wasn't because of YKYR :P). It's safe to say that Nirvana hasn't lost any meaning over the years.

going "awwww" at this classic crut post

re: Cicieraga, I strongly considered nominating "T.I.M.E." in the tracks poll

wow, that Jump/Imagine is spectacular!!

Ghrol makes this song what it is

I don't know where this BS line started that Grohl was inspired by the Gap Band's "Early in the Morning, but given that "Teen Spirit" already bears a passing minor key resemblance to "More Than a Feeling," check out the drum fill leading in to the final chorus, around 2:45:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufQUxoidxkM

It came from Grohl himself in an interview he did with Pharrell where he cited Funk licks/beats/rolls he used on Nevermind.

Faking the funk! J'accuse!

Yeah, he's full of shit, lol.

That album is exceptionally not funky, and drum intro to Teen Spirit sounds nothing like the Gap Band. But it does sound like that bit in More Than a Feeling, which the rest of the song sounds like, too. Possibly mature Grohl is guilty of a little revisionism.

Stubblefield...Ferrone...Grohl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZCrdSC2-1I

Opened this up and was reminded of "Teen Sprite" from a few years ago. The original link above was taken down, and it's a little harder to find now--it's on YouTube under the name "Nirvirna." It's probably impossible to erase anything permanently, someone will always be around to re-post, but if you've never heard it, there does seem to be some effort to do so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX24A6sSR8s

I agree I don't hear it on "Early In The Morning" but 100% hear it on the opening of "Burn Rubber On Me" fwiw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmcncGirAU4

I don't hear it, it lacks that bass drum syncopation, which the Boston fill has.

xpost A few years ago there were a whole bunch of major key versions of minor key songs posted. I seem to recall the major key Losing My Religion was pretty good.

this will always be the definitive version for me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRdc0OxUmYg

Oh.

I remember Tom Scholz being sore about the similarities. I heard a radio interview before a Boston concert in the mid-'90s and he and/or Delp bitching about doing "The Nirvana Song" onstage.

xp (Fun fact: the tires screeching before the drum intro is sampled for the instrumental chorus of NWA's "Straight Outta Compton")

I don’t hear any fill at 2:45 in the Boston song?

Agree with Steve it totally sounds like the opening of the gap band jam and it’s used In exactly the same way

I think he meant 3:45

Yeah, sorry. Toward the end.

Dave Grohl got me reeling
When ripped off "More Than Feeling"

AMANDA

The drums definitely enter "Teen Spirit" the same sort of way they enter those Gap Band tracks, but come on, there is no way Grohl was thinking Gap Band, Cameo and Chic when he was recording "Nevermind." At, what, age 22? With his punk background? Nah. But old man Grohl now, friend to everyone, lover of all music, sure. He probably wanted to seem hip to Pharrell.

Reminds me of some making of "Murmur" thing I read years ago (I don't think it was Niimi's book) where they were talking about the supposedly "anything goes" recording, trying everything, including sliding in James Brown samples. Come on, no they weren't.

I read the early circa 2000 posts above. So much hate for this song/band!

Like, show us on the doll where the Anarchy cheerleader touched you...

my god I remember that pixies talking point it was used all the time as if it was the last word on nirvana as a band. they sound nothing alike! not even on SLTS except for some of the basic dynamics. it seems like people were just repeating something cobain said once as an excuse to flex their indie cred (and it worked in that it made me feel totally basic for liking nirvana more). the best legacy of the pixies reunion is that it totally killed the mystique that made them such a trump card in these games

anyway isn't everyone who does the quiet/loud thing just ripping off haydn?

fwiw as a 15 year old when Smells Like Teen Spirit came out, I saw the video on MTV in the school common room, knew nothing about them, and thought "I like this it sounds a bit like a heavier version of the Pixies".

I didn't have a lot of other points of reference for indie rock/punk stuff at the time mind you. I'd bought Doolittle a few months prior to this and was listening to it constantly.

I can hear it if I squint but they seem very different to me probably because my introduction to nirvana was more like "this is like a better version of nickelback". discovering the pixies later was on was like getting inducted into the cool kids gang. but nirvana was for everyone

this song is OK

there's a pretty clear line from "gigantic" to a lot of nirvana, not much else though

ok I was wrong they're not nothing alike and I guess I hear a lot of kim deal in nirvana's bass parts too (and those of so many other bands since then)

getting into 80s-90s alt/indie rock all at once after the fact makes it harder to know how the parts fit together than if you grew up with it

I have no interest in Nirvana, but this was a great song on a great album and that should be the final word, and no they don’t sound like the Pixies

nobody said they were a one-to-one match, that’s not how influence works

Besides a few of the other hallmarks - the screaming, the stark dynamics - I find it odd that the most blatant Pixies identifier is ... 8th note bass lines? That's really it, isn't it, the bass? Whether it's "Teen Spirit" or Sugar's "A Good Idea," if you want to sound like the Pixies, you play ... a straight forward bass part. But there have to be antecedents to something so simple, right?

speaking of antecedents whenever i hear that driving downbeat snare drum pattern (like in the gap band song) i think motown

The drums definitely enter "Teen Spirit" the same sort of way they enter those Gap Band tracks, but come on, there is no way Grohl was thinking Gap Band, Cameo and Chic when he was recording "Nevermind." At, what, age 22? With his punk background? Nah. But old man Grohl now, friend to everyone, lover of all music, sure. He probably wanted to seem hip to Pharrell.

Reminds me of some making of "Murmur" thing I read years ago (I don't think it was Niimi's book) where they were talking about the supposedly "anything goes" recording, trying everything, including sliding in James Brown samples. Come on, no they weren't.

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, November 13, 2023 7:48 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Why is there “no way”? That stuff was on radio. It was a big sound at the time. He may have even done it subconsciously and looked back and been like oh damn that’s where I got that. Idk, the Boston thing is similar but it’s *kurt* who was inspired by Boston

yeah I don't see why Gap Band, etc. wouldn't have been on Grohl's musical diet. I still remember 30 years ago when it astounded some people to learn that "More Than a Feeling" inspired (in part) SLTS -- was he too punk for it or something?

IME drummers have always been drum nerds who like weird drum music, so the Grohl/Gap connection sounds v plausible

I mean, nothing is impossible. "Nevermind" was recorded in, what, 1991? When "Early in the Morning" was a hit he was 13, and by his own account a full-on punk rocker. So sure, it's *possible*, he just seems like a dude that listened to Boston on purpose but maybe only heard the Gap Band in passing; definitely he and Kurt heard the Boston song a million times whether they wanted to or not. I do think he might have heard "(Not Just) Knee Deep" by way of De La, though; it has a similar drum intro. But none of these funky examples feature the bass drum syncopation that the Boston and Nirvana songs have, and "Teen Spirt" already sounds a bit like "More Than a Feeling."

Here's a clip of Grohl playing a vintage TCB/Junkyard Band-style bounce-beat on RDGLDGRN studio sessions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FuatudrCjA

(time stamp 1m28s)

Definitely Grohl, like a lot of DC punk dudes (like MacKaye and Rollins), was apparently into go-go:

"As I was walking down the street, a car drives by, and go-go's blaring out of it. That's how you know that you're in Washington, D.C., because it doesn't even really stretch to Baltimore, or Richmond. It is Washington, D.C. Now, New Orleans has jazz, right? Chicago's got the blues. D.C. (has) go-go music, which is like a funk-based music that was started in the early '70s, pioneered by this guy Chuck Brown. It sort of evolved into this huge local scene. When I was a kid, growing up (in Washington, D.C.), you'd get three or four go-go bands to play together: Trouble Funk, Junk Yard, Rare Essence — put 'em all together, you had a good, like, 30,000 people. You know, that doesn't happen anywhere else. I was always really proud that wherever — when I started touring as a young musician, I'd go to Europe and I'd say to people, 'have you heard go-go?' They'd say, 'what's go-go music?' And I'd play 'em Trouble Funk."

Tbf, the clip of him talking about the Gap Band, it's not really laid out as an influence on "Teen Spirit" specifically, just the album generally, which is more plausible (to me). He calls it the "disco flam." The doc does insert a clip of "Teen Spirit," but those big snare flams are all over the record, for sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZCrdSC2-1I

Most of these references rested somewhere within their collective patchwork after 15+ years of active and passive listening. At the very least these "unusual" choices were indirectly influencing the arrangements. Seems weird that Grohl would be bullshitting even if he just meant it was something he realized later. Just the same, Cobain did not actively cite Boston. In fact he probably would have thrown away the song pretty quickly if he was aware early enough.

I could believe that Grohl only realized later where those influences came from, that makes the most sense.

Wasn't the story that Cobain almost tossed the song because it sounded too close to the Pixies? That may have been BS as well, just like Bob Mould claiming he didn't notice the similarities between "A Good Idea" and "Debaser" until much later. Sure, Bob; the song works better as an homage than it does as a false modesty stumble into brilliance.

For sure Cobain knew "More Than a Feeling," so it would be surprising to me if he didn't notice the (admittedly fleeting) resemblance. "Teen Spirit" bears more of a resemblance to the Pixies than it does Boston, but it only barely sounds like Pixies, either.

This is my fave "Teen Spirit" clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeb5LdAyLC8

My college radio station was chosen to debut SLTS to the world and while the 12" was delivered in a white label, Kurt drew what the proposed artwork concept for Nevermind would be on a mailer:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CzKB3pjysa2/

Glad they didn’t go w the “H!tl3r Baby” concept.

For sure Cobain knew "More Than a Feeling," so it would be surprising to me if he didn't notice the (admittedly fleeting) resemblance. "Teen Spirit" bears more of a resemblance to the Pixies than it does Boston, but it only barely sounds like Pixies, either.

they lampshaded the resemblance at reading '92

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3XIGon2RjY