The Pitchfork 500: Our Guide to the Greatest Songs from Punk to the Present (11-11-08)

not to take anything away from the poll threads that Kevin Keller started but since the list has leaked, it deserves it's own thread.

http://thepitchfork500.com/

here is the link Kevin posted for the actual list (thanks):

http://fromclosertonear.blogspot.com/2008/11/pitchfork-500-our-guide-to-greatest.html

I love all these songs.

Ooh, Lesson No. 1!

OK, here is that list:

1977 – 1979

David Bowie – Heroes
Iggy Pop – The Passenger
Lou Reed – Street Hassle
Kraftwerk – Trans-Europe Express
Brian Eno – 1/1
The Ramones – Rockaway Beach
Talking Heads – Psycho Killer
Television – Marquee Moon
Patti Smith – Rock n Roll Nigger
The Sex Pistols – God Save the Queen
The Clash – (White Man) In Hammersmith Palais
Buzzcocks – Ever Fallen in Love?
Vic Godard and the Subway Sect – Parallel Lines
X-Ray Spex – Oh Bondage! Up Yours!
The Adverts – One Chord Wonders
Wire – Ex-Lion Tamer
Donna Summer – I Feel Love
Giorgo Moroder - The Chase
Chic – Good Times
Thelma Houston – Don’t Leave Me This Way
Gloria Gaynor – I Will Survive
Michael Jackson – Don’t Stop ‘Til You Get Enough
Parliament – Flash Light
Marvin Gaye – Got To Give It Up
Public Image Ltd. – Public Image
Gang of Four – Damaged Goods
Magazine – Shot by Both Sides
The Cramps – Human Fly
The Misfits – Night of the Living Dead
Wire – Outdoor Miner
Joy Division – Disorder
Althea and Donna – Uptown Top Ranking
Lee Perry – Roast Fish and Cornbread
The Congos – Fisherman
Willie Williams – Armagideon Time
This Heat – 24 Track Loop
The Slits – Typical Girls
The Pop Group – She Is Beyond Good and Evil
The Clash – The Guns of Brixton
James Chance and the Contortions – Contort Yourself
Suicide – Dream Baby Dream
Cabaret Voltaire – Nag Nag Nag
Throbbing Gristle – Hot on the Heels of Love
Devo – Mongoloid
Candido – Jingo
Dinosaur – Kiss Me Again
Machine – There but for the Grace of God Go I
Kate Bush – Wuthering Heights
Goblin – Suspiria
Blue Oyster Cult – (Don’t Fear) The Reaper
AC/DC – Highway to Hell
Van Halen – Runnin’ with the Devil
Fleetwood Mac – The Chain
Steely Dan – Deacon Blues
Electric Light Orchestra – Mr. Blue Sky
The Only Ones – Another Girl, Another Planet
The Undertones – Teenage Kicks
Plastic Bertrand – Ca plane pour moi
The Records – Starry Eyes
Cheap Trick – Surrender
The Cars – Just What I Needed
Elvis Costello and the Attractions – Radio Radio
The Cure – Boys Don’t Cry
XTC – Making Plans for Nigel
Blondie – Atomic
Talking Heads – Memories Can’t Wait

1980 – 1982

Kurtis Blow – The Breaks
Spoonie Gee Meets the Sequence – Monster Jam
The Sugarhill Gang – 8th Wonder
The Treacherous Three – The New Rap Language
The Clash – The Magnificent Seven
Talking Heads – Born Under Punches (The Heat Goes On)
Yoko Ono – Walking on Thin Ice
Klein + MBO – Dirty Talk
ESG – Moody
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five – The Adventures of Grandmaster Flash on the Wheels of Steel
Funky 4+1 – That’s The Joint
Kraftwerk – Numbers/Computer World 2
Afrika Bambaataa & Soulsonic Force – Planet Rock
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five – The Message
Glenn Branca – Lesson No. 1 for Electric Guitar
Laurie Anderson – O Superman (For Massenet)
Joy Division – Atmosphere
The Fall – Totally Wired
Elvis Costello and the Attractions – Beyond Belief
The Pretenders – Back on the Chain Gang
The B-52’s – Private Idaho
Dexys Midnight Runners – There There My Dear
Young Marble Giants – Final Day
Altered Images – Happy Birthday
The Specials – Ghost Town
Robert Wyatt – Shipbuilding
Bauhaus – Third Uncle
Adam and the Ants – Kings of the Wild Frontier
Scritti Politti – The Sweetest Girl
The Human League – Don’t You Want Me
Soft Cell – Tainted Love
The Associates – Party Fears Two
ABC – All of My Heart
New Order – Temptation
The Jam – Town Called Malice
Duran Duran – The Chauffeur
The English Beat – Save It for Later
The Go-Go’s – Our Lips Are Sealed
Tom Tom Club – Genius of Love
Prince – Dirty Mind
Daryl Hall & John Oates – I Can’t Go for That (No Can Do)
Michael Jackson – Billie Jean
ABBA – The Day Before You Came
Roxy Music – More Than This
Queen – Under Pressure
Bruce Springsteen – Atlantic City
Journey – Don’t Stop Believing
Bad Brains – Pay to Cum
Minor Threat – Minor Threat
Dead Kennedys – Holiday in Cambodia
Black Flag – Rise Above
Wipers – Youth of America
Flipper – Sex Bomb
Motorhead – Ace of Spades
Iron Maiden – Run to the Hills
Orange Juice – Blue Boy
The Television Personalities – This Angry Silence
The Fall – The Classical
The Clean – Tally Ho!
The Feelies – The Boy with the Perpetual Nervousness
R.E.M. – Radio Free Europe
Violent Femmes – Blister in the Sun
Mission of Burma – That’s When I Reach for My Revolver

1983-1986

The Smiths – This Charming Man
Sonic Youth – Death Valley ‘69
Husker Du – Pink Turns to Blue
Meat Puppets – Plateau
The Replacements – I Will Dare
Minutemen – History Lesson (Part II)
R.E.M. – So. Central Rain (I’m Sorry)
Echo and the Bunnymen – The Killing Moon
The Cure – Close to Me
Siouxsie and the Banshees – Cities in Dust
Run-D.M.C. – It’s Like That
Crash Crew – On the Radio
Rammelzee vs. K-Rob – Beat Bob
Boogie Down Productions – South Bronx
New Order – Blue Monday
Prince and the Revolution – When Doves Cry
Talking Heads – This Must Be the Place (Naïve Melody)
Kate Bush – Running Up That Hill (A Deal with God)
U2 – New Year’s Day
Simple Minds – Don’t You (Forget About Me)
The Replacements – Bastards of Young
The Mekons – Last Dance
Big Black – Kerosene
Scratch Acid – The Greatest Gift
The Jesus and Mary Chain – Just Like Honey
The Smiths – How Soon Is Now?
Cocteau Twins – Lorelei
New Order – Bizarre Love Triangle
Billy Bragg – A New England
Metallica – Battery
Slayer – Angel of Death
Saint Vitus – Clear Windowpane
Einstruzende Neubauten – Halber Mensch
Art of Noise – Beat Box (Diversion One)
Frankie Goes to Hollywood – Relax
Liquid Liquid – Optimo
Alexander Robotnick – Problemes d’Amour
Shannon – Let the Music Play
Section 25 – Looking from a Hilltop (Restructure)
Madonna – Holiday
Cyndi Lauper – Girls Just Want to Have Fun
Prince – Kiss
Run-D.M.C. – Rock Box
LL Cool J – I Can’t Live Without My Radio
Beastie Boys – No Sleep Till Brooklyn
Mantronix – Needle to the Groove
The Go-Betweens – Cattle and Cane
The Chills – Pink Frost
Felt – Primitive Painters
The Smiths – There Is a Light That Never Goes Out
Tom Waits – Jockey Full of Bourbon
Bruce Springsteen – I’m on Fire
Scott Walker – Rawhide
U2 – Bad
Don Henley – The Boys of Summer
Paul Simon – Graceland
Wayne Smith – Under Me Sleng Teng
Anthony “Red” Rose – Tempo
Model 500 – No UFO’s

1987-1990

Mr. Fingers – Can You Feel It
Rhythim Is Rhythim – Strings of Life
A Guy Called Gerald – Voodoo Ray
M/A/R/R/S – Pump Up The Volume
My Blood Valentine – You Made Me Realise
Spacemen 3 – Walking With Jesus
Ride – Dreams Burn Down
Glaxie 500 – Blue Thunder
Happy Mondays – Kinky Afro
The Stone Roses – She Bangs the Drums
Sonic Youth – Teen Age Riot
Dinosaur Jr. – Freak Scene
Butthole Surfers – Human Cannonball
Pixies – Where Is My Mind?
Fugazi – Waiting Room
Audio Two – Top Billin’
Eric B & Rakim – I Know You Got Soul
Public Enemy – Rebel Without a Pause
N.W.A. – Straight Outta Compton
Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds – The Mercy Seat
Ministry – Stigmata
The Jesus and Mary Chain – Head On
The Sugarcubes – Birthday
The Cure – Just Like Heaven
Morrissey – Everyday Is Like Sunday
The Pogues – Fairytale of New York
The Wedding Present – My Favourite Dress
The Field Mice – Emma’s House
Another Sunny Day – You Should All Be Murdered
The Dead Milkmen – Punk Rock Girl
The Primitives – Crash
The La’s – There She Goes
They Might Be Giants – Birdhouse in Your Soul
Superchunk – Slack Motherfucker
Fugazi – Merchandise
The Jesus Lizard – Mouth Breather
Slick Rick – Children’s Story
Gang Starr – Just to Get a Rep
Rob Base and DJ E-Z Rock – It Takes Two
Sal-n-Pepa – Push It
Beastie Boys – Hey Ladies
De La Soul – Me Myself and I
Biz Markie – Just a Friend
Public Enemy – Fight The Power
Guns N’ Roses – Welcome to the Jungle
Swans – Beautiful Child
John Zorn – The Sicilian Clan
Prince and the Revolution – If I Was Your Girlfriend
Madonna – Like a Prayer
Deee-Lite – Groove Is in the Heart
Pet Shop Boys – Being Boring
Sinead O’Conner – Nothing Compares 2 U
The Orb – Little Fluffy Clouds
The KLF – Wichita Lineman Was a Song I Once Heard
808 State – Pacific State
Orbital – Chime
Depeche Mode – Enjoy the Sileince
My Blood Valentine – Soon
The Vaselines – Son of a Gun
Beat Happening – Indian Summer
Daniel Johnston – Some Things Last a Long Time
Mudhoney – Touch Me I’m Sick
Pixies – Wave of Mutilation

1991-1993

Nirvana – Smells Like Teen Spirit
Pavement – Summer Babe
Archers of Loaf – Web in Front
Yo La Tengo – From a Motel 6
Sebadoh – The Freed Pig
A Tribe Called Quest – Check the Rhime
De La Soul – A Roller Skating Jam Named ‘Saturdays’
Black Sheep – The Choice Is Yours
Massive Attack – Unfinished Sympathy
Tricky – Aftermath (Version 1)
Primal Scream – Higher Than the Sun
Spiritualized – Step into the Breeze
Slowdive – Alison
Aphex Twin – Xtal
Talk Talk – Ascension Day
Slint – Good Morning, Captain
Disco Inferno – The Last Dance
Stereolab – French Disko
Acen – Trip II the Moon Pts. 1 and 2
The Future Sound of London – Papua New Guinea
Human Resource – Dominator (Joey Beltram Mix)
Metalheadz – Terminator
Omni Trio – Renegade Snares
Red House Painters – New Jersey
Teenage Fanclub – The Concept
Heavenly – C Is the Heavenly Option
Tindersticks – City Sickness
Unrest – Make Out Club
Tenor Saw/Buju Banton – Ring the Alarm Quick
Dr. Dre – Nuthin’ but a ‘G’ Thang
Ice Cube – It Was a Good Day
2Pac – I Get Around
Souls of Mischief – 93 ‘Til Infinity
Suede – The Drowners
Blur – For Tomorrow
Elastica – Stutter
Ween – Doctor Rock
Wu-Tang Clan – Protect Ya Neck
Geto Boys – Mind Playing Tricks on Me
Pete Rock and C.L. Smooth – They Reminisce Over You (T.R.O.Y.)
Bikini Kill – Rebel Girl
Melvins – Hooch
Dinosaur Jr. – Start Choppin’
Pixies – U-Mass
Liz Phair – Divorce Song
PJ Harvey – Rid of Me
The Afghan Whigs – Debonair
Rage Against the Machine – Killing in the Name
The Lemonheads – It’s a Shame About Ray
Beck – Loser
The Breeders – Cannonball
Nirvana – Scentless Apprentice

1994-1996

Hole – Violet
Smashing Pumpkins – 1979
Green Day – Longview
Weezer – Say It Ain’t So
Blur – Girls & Boys
Oasis – Live Forever
Pulp – Common People
The Notorious B.I.G. – Juicy
Nas – It Ain’t Hard to Tell
Mobb Deep – Shook Ones, Pt. 2
GZA – 4th Chamber
Pavement – Gold Soundz
Built to Spill – Car
Modest Mouse – Broke
Frank Black – Headache
The Jon Spencer Blues Explosion – Bellbottoms
Guided by Voices – I Am a Scientist
Nine Inch Nails – Closer
Bjork – Hyper-Ballad
Beck – Devil’s Haircut
Portishead – Sour Times (Nobody Loves Me)
Saint Etienne – Like a Motorway
Basic Channel – Octagon
Paperclip People – Throw
DJ Shadow – Midnight in a Perfect World
Dr. Octagon – Blue Flowers
Common – I Used to Lover H.E.R.
Jeff Buckley – Grace
Mazzy Star – Fade Into You
Arthur Russell – This Is How We Walk on the Moon
Low – Words
The Auteurs – Unsolved Child Murder
Jawbox – Savory
Drive Like Jehu – Luau
Brainiac – Pussyfootin’
Napalm Death – Twist the Knife (Slowly)
Darkthrone – En As I Dype Skogen
Ol’ Dirty Bastard – Brooklyn Zoo
Snoop Doggy Dogg – Gin and Juice
Luniz – I Got 5 on It
Cutty Ranks – Limb by Limb
The Prodigy – No Good (Start the Dance)
Underworld – Born Slippy (NUXX)
The Chemical Brothers – Setting Sun
Daft Punk – Da Funk
Belle and Sebastian – The State I Am In
Elliott Smith – Needle in the Hay
The Magnetic Fields – Take Ecstasy with Me
Palace Music – New Partner
Arab Strap – The First Big Weekend
Tortoise – Gamera
The Sea and Cake – Parasol
Pavement – Rattled by the Rush
Guided by Voices – Game of Pricks
Weezer – El Scorcho

1997-1999

Radiohead – Paranoid Android
Bjork – Joga
The Verve – Bitter Sweet Symphony
Elliott Smith – Between the Bars
Cat Power – Cross Bones Style
The Clientele – Reflections After Jane
Bonnie “Prince” Billy – I See a Darkness
Smog – Teenage Spaceship
Silver Jews – Random Rules
Autechre – Arch Carrier
Boards of Canada – Happy Cycling
Herbert – So Now…
Aphex Twin – Windowlicker
Uilab – St. Elmo’s Fire
Air – Le Soleil est Pres du Moi
Massive Attack – Teardrop
Black Star – Respiration
The Notorious B.I.G. – Hypnotize
Outkast – Spottieottiedopaliscious
The Roots – The Next Movement
The Flaming Lips – Waitin’ for a Superman
The Beta Band – Dry the Rain
The Olivia Tremor Control – Hideaway
Neutral Milk Hotel – Holland, 1945
Super Furry Animals – Ice Hockey Hair
Stardust – Music Sounds Better with You
Basement Jaxx – Jump n’ Shout
Wilco – Via Chicago
Pulp – This Is Hardcore
Belle and Sebastian – Lazy Line Painter Jane
Yo La Tengo – Autumn Sweater
Sleater-Kinney – One More Hour
Refused – New Noise
The Dismemberment Plan – The City
Boredoms – Super Shine
Mogwai – Like Herod
Jim O’Rourke – Halfway to a Threeway
Sigur Ros – Svefn-g-Englar

2000-2002

Daft Punk – One More Time
Radiohead – Idioteque
Godspeed You! Black Emperor – Storm
The Avalanches – Since I Left You
Broadcast – Come On Let’s Go
Aaliyah – Try Again
Justin Timberlake – Cry Me a River
Luomo – Tessio
Vitalic – La Rock 01
Kylie Minogue – Love at First Sight
Jay-Z – Big Pimpin’
Outkast – B.O.B.
Eminem – The Real Slim Shady
Ghostface Killah – Nutmeg
Missy Elliott – Get Ur Freak On
The White Stripes – Dead Leaves and the Dirty Ground
The Strokes – The Modern Age
…And You Will Know Us by the Trail of Dead – Another Morning Stoner
Interpol – Obstacle 1
Electric Six – Danger! High Voltage
Golden Boy with Miss Kittin – Rippin Kittin’
Jurgen Paape – So Weit Wie Noch Nie
Osymyso – Intro-Inspection
The Knife – Heartbeats
LCD Soundystem – Lossing My Edge
The Rapture – House of Jealous Lovers
The Streets – Weak Become Heroes
Aesop Rock – Daylight
Rjd2 – Good Times Roll Pt. 2
Bright Eyes – The Calendar Hung Itself
Wilco – Poor Places
Queens of the Stonge Age – No One Knows
My Morning Jacket – The Way That He Sings
Modest Mouse – 3rd Planet
Clinic – Distortions
Shellac – Prayer to God
Mclusky – To Hell with Good Intentions
Lightning Bolt – Ride the Sky
The Microphones – The Moon
The New Pornographers – Letter from an Occupant
The Shins – New Slang
The Decemberists – Here I Dreamt I Was an Architect
Radiohead – Life in a Glasshouse
Broken Social Scene – Cause = Time
Deerhoof – This Magnificent Bird Will Rise
Spoon – The Way We Get By
Dizzee Rascal I Luv U
M.O.P. – Ante Up
Clipse – Grindin’
Talib Kweli – Get By
Jay-Z – Takeover

2003-2006

Outkast – Hey Ya
Kanye West – Through The Wire
R. Kelly – Ignition (Remix)
Beyonce – Crazy In Love
Gnarls Barkley – Crazy
!!! – Me and Giuliani Down by the School Yard (A True Story)
TV on the Radio – Staring at the Sun
Yeah Yeah Yeahs – Maps
The Walkmen – The Rat
Devendra Banhart – A Sight to Behold
Joanna Newsom – Peach, Plum, Pear
Sufjan Stevens – Casimir Pulaski Day
Antony and the Johnsons – Hope There’s Someone
Animal Collective – Leaf House
The Books – Take Time
M83 – Don’t Save Us from the Flames
The Postal Service – Such Great Heights
Annie – Heartbeat
M.I.A. – Galang
The White Stripes – Seven Nation Army
Franz Ferdinand – Take Me Out
The Fiery Furnaces – Here Comes the Summer
The Mountain Goats – No Children
The Wrens – She Sends Kisses
Les Savy Fav – The Sweat Descends
Ted Leo and the Pharmacists – Where Have All the Rude Boys Gone?
The Exploding Hearts – Modern Kicks
Art Brut – Formed a Band
Boris – Farewell
Mastodon – Sleeping Giant
Madvillain – America’s Most Blunted
T.I. – What You Know
Kelly Clarkson – Since U Been Gone
Amerie – 1 Thing
Ciara – Oh
The Go! Team – The Power Is On
Feist – Mushaboom
Arcade Fire – Neighborhood #1 (Tunnels)
Wolf Parade – I’ll Believe in Anything
Band of Horses – The Funeral
The Hold Steady – Stuck Between Stations
Beirut – Postcards from Italy
Johnny Boy – You Are the Generation That Bought More Shoes and You Get What You Deserve
Love Is All – Busy Doing Nothing
Jens Lekman – Black Cab
Christian Falk – Dream On
Peter Bjorn and John – Young Folks
Justice vs. Simian – We Are Your Friends
Hot Chip – Boy from School
Animal Collective – Grass
Black Dice – Cone Toaster
Liars – The Other Side of Mt. Heart Attack
Panda Bear – Bros

this list is v. shrill...

Only one Bowie song, and it's not "Sound and Vision"?
No Ricardo Villalobos?
No Burial?
No Kyuss?

yeah, i tried to make a poll for the whole list, but i guess there's a 50-item limit. i ran out of energy after the first two.

Only one Bowie song, and it's not "Sound and Vision"?

― Vision, Wednesday, November 5, 2008 3:03 AM (1 minute ago)

my thoughts exactly. i'm also in the camp that sound and vision is his best song.

anyway, i'm ecstatic that clinic's "distortions" made the list, so have no complaints. one of my favorite songs ever.

ehhh....looking over it again, it's not quite as bad as i first thought--there are lots of good songs, lots of things pitchfork does right--yet it somehow seems slightly unsatisfying... :[

xpost...distortions is excellent, but what would have made me ecstatic was including porno

also, i would have liked to see more fiery furnaces, but they got my favorite song of theirs, and honestly p4k was pretty brutal to them for a stretch. i think there could have been a song from gallowsbird's bark ("inca rag/name game"?) too, but i'm pleased with "here comes the summer."

also, and this is just fucking nitpicking at this point, i would have chosen "range life" over "gold soundz", and though i don't think "rattled by la rush" is the best on wowee, it's probably the logical choice as it was the big single. obviously being a pavement lunatic i'll never be happy with anyone else's choices though. "box elder" or "frontwards" could have found a place here too. (along with "here," but i guess there's a one per album rule.)

Ooh, Beat Bop! Another song from New York Noise! How many can you spot?

Actually, The Sugarhill Records Story may be the most-represented compilation here. Any other contenders?

No Stranglers, no Joni Mitchell, no Rush. No King Crimson. No Faith No More.
Four Talking Heads songs but no "Once in a Lifetime" or "I Zimbra".
Three Pavement songs.
Dozens of interchangeably vapid indie bands.

On the other hand: props for including Shellac and Teenage Fanclub.

you can't be surprised at the lack of rush, for example, honestly. at least they're being honest.

I wasn't surprised per se but if they're including BOC, ELO, Queen, Journey,...

you can't be surprised at the lack of rush, for example, honestly. at least they're being honest.

― Kevin Keller, Wednesday, November 5, 2008 4:01 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

I can understand their editorial criteria, but to choose Gloria Gaynor/Hall & Oates/Cindy Lauper/Journey/Deee-Lite/Kylie over Rush still seems to me more than a little puzzling.

what does ILM think about them listing songs and not limiting it down to just singles?

i feel like this overall list would have been better severed if they just stuck with singles. if you included almost every song from 1977 to 2006 it just becomes too watered down when you expand the list that big.

they at least should have chosen "time after time"

Actually, one omission that does surprise me a little is Battles.

any list that includes "renegade snares" is fine by me!

the 2000-2006 stretch seems a bit tired though... those are great songs but i feel like pitchfork's already written so much about them, pick other songs plz : )

no cuban linx...

11-11-08 is the publishing date. better numbers, in the title, would have been 1977-2006.

I can understand their editorial criteria, but to choose Gloria Gaynor/Hall & Oates/Cindy Lauper/Journey/Deee-Lite/Kylie over Rush still seems to me more than a little puzzling.

This is about the most understandable thing in the world.

It weird that there's (at least) two Eno covers on there.

Extremely pleased to see Cutty Ranks' Limb by Limb there. I don't know why, it's not like they're any sort of authority or anything.

Please don't tell me you guys are ACTUALLY going to argue about this as if it was the result of some sort of flawed mathematical process

xpost exactly!

The KLF – Wichita Lineman Was a Song I Once Heard

ORLY?

(I know where it's from, I don't know *it* but can guess...)

Why does it stop at 2006? Part of the fun of these lists is to look at it ten years later and see how well the list compilers did as far as what eventually became canon and what didn't.

This list was obviously a "hey pitchfork writers, everybody email me your 500 favorite songs and i'll give points to each entry and only the cream of the crop will make the final list" kinda thing. no room for ultra-obscure special personal favorites :( Did I mention how much I absolutely hate that style of list compiling? Well, I do.

It's taken a while to get published - hence ending in 2006.

It'st akena whilet oge tpublishe - dhenc eendin gi n2---------

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hCsPtIKhpsk/SO3-hQJL4II/AAAAAAAAB8k/YhaRW7AGV_M/s1600/xgu-041.jpg

Presumably they will do a big top 100 tracks of the 00s this time next year so I guess you can pick out much of what will form that from the above

Burial and Battles are in a 2007 sidebar fwiw. The 500 songs, and all the other sidebar material, in the book are from 1977-2006.

anyone else happy to see all that twee stuff? felt! heavenly!

somehow this is even more tedious than i expected

the few great tracks in there make it somehow even worse

this list is v. shrill...

― ^ban with extreme prejudice (Drugs A. Money), Tuesday, November 4, 2008 9:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this list seems very cliched and shrill...i mean, all the songs are good, but i would def. have different choices from the artist i really like on this list.

― ^ban with extreme prejudice (Drugs A. Money), Tuesday, November 4, 2008 9:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2210/2195149174_42d3f23b13_o.png

Christian Falk - "Dream On"

WTF?! I mean, I really like that song, better than a lot of other songs here, but where did the support come from? Did I miss out on the massive "Dream On" hype? Wasn't it immediately eclipsed by the much better "With Every Heartbeat"?

no Tori Amos
no Janet Jackson
no Blackstreet (i mean 'No Diggity' is better than 'I Got 5 On It' cmon)

what other big names with several hits are not represented?

Chas & Dave

The Longpigs

Mr Fingers the only big US House name. Kevin Saunderson always missing out in favour of Atkins and May.

xpost lol...

i mean 'No Diggity' is better than 'I Got 5 On It' cmon

hahahahaha ban

I can understand their editorial criteria, but to choose Gloria Gaynor/Hall & Oates/Cindy Lauper/Journey/Deee-Lite/Kylie over Rush still seems to me more than a little puzzling.

This is about the most understandable thing in the world.

It weird that there's (at least) two Eno covers on there.

― Enrique (Raw Patrick), Wednesday, November 5, 2008 9:32 AM

OK Enrique, care to explain? I'm curious, even if it is, as you say, "the most understandable thing in the world".

"shrill" = gratingly one-dimensional?...

...which, upon further consideration, is not really all that apt, since the list seems to work on at least two levels: 1) to compile all the awesome & epochal singles from that era; and, 2) to include songs from other landmark albums and artists that were making noise at the time. From the sound of it, it seems like they hit the mark on the former, but as far as the latter is concerned, they tend to just pick the first track off the album (or the A-side to the band's first single). No matter how good that first song is, every time they do it, it scans as a token gesture, and after a while it starts to grate...

Maybe I'd be happier if Pitchfork was more concerned with the best songs instead of the greatest. For example, The Clean's Compilation album is easily tied for my second-favourite album ever, but "Tally Ho!" is probably my fourteenth favourite song on it. You can't tell me that it was included because it was one of the best songs in the past three decades; more like because the Clean is an important band, and Tally Ho! was the first single on the Flying Nun label, and that was an important label. And when you bring the concept of "importance" into a discussion about pop music, it always sounds a shrill note.

then again, if they truly picked out what were the "best" songs, no one would agree with any of the picks and it would doubtless be seen as pretentious. list-making is a daunting and thankless task, and it seems the people who have the biggest problem with them are the ones who take them so damn seriously, as if they expect them to be "right"

you're absolutely right Kevin and this list is actually way better than it has to be, but when I first saw it, I thought "shrill!" and was called upon to explain (or at least prove I knew what the word meant)...the whole first-track tendency (and it's more much prevalent than I had first suspected...Heart of the Congos, Dirty Mind, Hex Enduction Hour, Houdini, In Utero, Odelay, Pink) is mainly a gateway to talk abt these seminal albums...I do think this list is obvious in its goal: to provide maximum opportunity to write at great lengths abt music...

sry bout the rants and oblique words...methinks i am getting allergic reactions to any rocklists not my own...

Vision, I believe Enrique was merely pointing out that choosing songs by Gloria Gaynor, Hall & Oates, Cindy Lauper, Journey, Deee-Lite, and Kylie over songs by Rush is understandable because songs by Gloria Gaynor, Hall & Oates, Cindy Lauper, Journey, Deee-Lite, and Kylie are usually much better than songs by Rush.

shrill | sh ril|
adjective
(of a voice or sound) high-pitched and piercing : a shrill laugh.
• derogatory (esp. of a complaint or demand) loud and forceful : a concession to their shrill demands.

verb [ intrans. ] make a shrill noise : a piercing whistle shrilled through the night air.
• speak or cry with a shrill voice : [with direct speech ] “For God's sake!” shrilled Jan. noun [in sing. ] a shrill sound or cry : the rising shrill of women's voices.

DERIVATIVES shrillness noun
shrilly |ˈ sh ri(l)lē| adverb

ORIGIN late Middle English : of Germanic origin; related to Low German schrell ‘sharp in tone or taste.’

okay now I know what shrill means

'Please use freely to squelch the tedious wheriver they may fester.'

http://www.thedailyblitz.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/nbc_the_more_you_know.jpg

No Britney!

Vision, I believe Enrique was merely pointing out that choosing songs by Gloria Gaynor, Hall & Oates, Cindy Lauper, Journey, Deee-Lite, and Kylie over songs by Rush is understandable because songs by Gloria Gaynor, Hall & Oates, Cindy Lauper, Journey, Deee-Lite, and Kylie are usually much better than songs by Rush.

― I CRIED (G00blar), Wednesday, November 5, 2008 11:16 PM (30 minutes ago)

Gooblar, OF COURSE! How haven't I thought of that! Gloria Gaynor, Journey et caterva are better than Rush! Silly me, thinking that
songcraft, high production values and musical proficiency counted for anything! I'm off to the itunes store right now and acquire the entire opus of these towering artists! I can't wait to focus on the lyrical and technical depth of classics such as "She Bop" and "Maneater"!

"Silly me, thinking that songcraft, high production values and musical proficiency counted for anything!"

That was silly.

Srsly, you guys do this all the time. Of course its going to be boring and predictable and the challopsy stuff is gonna have a sign flashing in neon visible for miles around it saying "CHALLOPS AHEAD", this is what every list ever has been like. Ever. Even my shopping list is like this sometimes. It's so boring, we never even talk about music anymore on this. We just complain about Alexis Petridish.

Also, the Arthur Russell song from the T-Mobile ad! Wtf? anything off of Calling Out Of Context or World of Echo would have been better.

Vision, you are such an arsehole.

I have no problem with this list, but this book sounds boring as hell.

I know right, your band should be on that list. I mean, you guys were so original, I think it was a great injustice not to include classics such as "in the Navy" and "YMCA".

Suggest Ban

I've clicked that so many times I don't think it works.

Also, not really proving me wrong.

Also, there should be five Missy Elliott songs in this at least. And Beep Me 911 should come ahead of Get Ur Freak on surely?

I think "Get Ur Freak On" is more interesting to talk about frankly, esp. since there is plenty of Timbaland on here.

spose

I'm probably just being overzealous because I've been listening to Respect ME all day and its my favourite today.

Suggest Ban

― Alex in SF, Thursday, November 6, 2008 12:23 AM

You mean I know right can call me an "a**hole" and you don't say a word, but I can't compare him to The Village People? For intellectual reasons alone, I took the liberty to suggest ban you as well.

Yes. No. Fine.

Beep me 911 or call me on my cell phone
I'll call you back to see what you gon tell me
You don't wanna date no ifs' ands or waits it's over babe

I gotta say reading the blurb on teh Pitchfork500 site that this list looks to me to be a completely predictable failure. So basically alternate history, pffht.

the last three on the list if you ignore Liars, are my favourite probably. And the Amerie one.

Great songs, most of em, but still: Sure you'd expect an indie-centric list from the p*fork dudes, but this is just ridiculous. Entirely too predictable.

But its not like it was supposed to be unpredictable, it was supposed to be good, and that's what they thought they were doing.

yeah, it is their forte & they stuck to it, which is fine. I'm sure the writing is on par with their normal standards and the book would make for a good read. It's just that the glaring oversight of entire genres is a little striking.

Actually why have those Dubstep and Techno columns then?

ppl on this thread are not really the target audience for the list, right? it's a pretty great starting point for someone just getting into music though, like what ppl were saying about that SPIN alternative canon book. great xmas present for nephews and nieces etc for real (nb: don't know how much it costs, possibly not such a great gift idea).

"But its not like it was supposed to be unpredictable, it was supposed to be good, and that's what they thought they were doing."

My problem is presenting it as an "alternate history". This isn't alternate anything. It's the rock-crit canon.

$16

Well I think we lose perspective on ILM, like, in the real world, does everyone know who Studio are?

There is no music history in the real world. Music history is defined by what critics have deemed important. And this book is not shaking the tree (I agree that the SPIN wasn't either, but 1995 is not 2008 ya know.)

Yeah, but when it puts forward an idea of "the underground", to someone who doesn't spend time anticipating albums on the idirlíon, it is probably pretty weird and alternative and also wtf it's okay to like Pop music? Edgy! I don't really see this as shocking or conservative. It seems pretty much what it was supposed to be, but then, its just not aimed at us.

The list looks a little desperate to be balanced, including a little bit of genre. Still it's a not bad at all.

^ "a little bit of every genre"

IKR is OTM.

So basically alternate history, pffht.

haha that's like all pitchfork does. remember how phish was on their original list of 'best 100 albums of the '90s'?

to be fair, that was a very different pitchfork. i'm actually rather amused that i seem to be an apologist, because that's really not the case...you guys just really love hating them

otm

this whole thread is just whine-y wah wah shit from a bunch of muffin dicks.

wtg WATTS, you put us in our place like we were clean dishes, that you did, ;o

I have nothing against Pitchfork. This book just doesn't sound very good.

I think people saying "this IS the canon" are right in a sense: this definitely includes a lot of your standard boring canon choices, but on top of that it includes a lot (especially from the mid-80s onward) that hasn't been the recipient of rockcrit adulation until relatively recently. This looks boring to us because we know lots of critics will rep for dance and rap and metal now, but it's not until now that this representation has been solidified in a single book people can point to ala RS or Spin guides. This is the canon, but it's the canon we've helped invent. It's boring and hegemonic and blah blah blah, but it's the rockcrit canon of NOW. That's what makes it unique and interesting to me.

it's not until now that this representation has been solidified in a single book people can point to

Maybe I'm discounting Trouser Press here, but to be fair I think Pitchfork has a much wider sphere of influence than Trouser for better or worse.

well said.

OK Enrique, care to explain? I'm curious, even if it is, as you say, "the most understandable thing in the world".

― Vision, Wednesday, 5 November 2008 21:50 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Indie kids like disco and Hall & Oates and "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" and Deee-Lite more than they like Rush.

Tell that to Muse fans

yeah but they're dumb

(its joeks bruvs)

I think people saying "this IS the canon" are right in a sense: this definitely includes a lot of your standard boring canon choices, but on top of that it includes a lot (especially from the mid-80s onward) that hasn't been the recipient of rockcrit adulation until relatively recently.

this is exactly its problem, it tries to hedge its bets w/the traditional canon choices - which actually really dominate the list - and so the inclusion of dance, pop etc leaves a sour taste in the mouth because pfork is still coming at those genres from outside (in terms of what songs it chooses and the standards by which they're judged), it still doesn't place them on a par w/indie rock and it doesn't admit to this. it pays lip service to everything without really understanding them. it'd be far better to, for example, ignore r&b completely than to elevate only the most indie-friendly futuristic timbo-production numbers, while ignoring someone like mary j blige.

anyway yes all lists are tedious, as is bitching about them, this seems especially so.

i think the very worst thing to do would be to give it to a kid just getting into music...

One "Canon" list like this becomes a default Radio Station playlist, basically.

I can only imagine what this thread is going to turn into once people actually read the damn book. (Note: I haven't, though I did contribute some blurbs.)

(Matos I didn't know you'd contributed stuff to this - which were your blurbs?)

CTRL+F "Hello Tiger"

No results returned

:-(

Tim: Audio Two, Omni Trio, Shannon, "Wheels of Steel," Funky 4 + 1, Pretenders, Osymyso, Wayne Smith, Public Enemy, Human Resource, Yoko Ono, Acen, "Dirty Mind." Yours?

Great list! Would have loved to do Acen and Omni Trio </envy>

Mine was, I think: Madonna ("Holiday"), Basement Jaxx, The Avalanches, Kylie Minogue, The Streets, Christian Falk

haha well I'm surprised you didn't get them. I have no idea why I'm in the book since I've never written for the site.

I wasn't really in a position to do more but above and beyond that doing consumer guide stuff was quite a challenge for me, whereas I suspect you've learnt enough of Christgau's lessons to probably be very very very good at it. Looking forward to getting my copy.

(okay haters I will end the love-in now)

yeah, 10-4

(Tim: check yr email. Over and out.)

The list is great, but one thing that really bugs me is that in time periods when indie or punk is exceptionally strong this is really reflected in the list with great nuggets and curios and an in depth knowledge of it. However when they've used a techno track or hip-hop, disco and reggae they're always a kind of overlay, a track that's very defining of the time, often that has it's own sound. Now while they're all great songs, it makes the list biased, because you end up with the tokens from other genres being much more isolated than the organic progression of the indie and punk tracks. Things like Juan Atkins stick out as being tacked on for completeness sake.

Having said that, it's a pretty great stocking filler since it really does have great non-traditional canonistic choices.

hey guys, remember when Blender did a '500 greatest songs of the last 25 years' thing in 2005?

http://blender500.blogspot.com/

really, if the writing is good....

the writing will be as equally frustrating. it'll just make me want to read tim finney's 500, or matos's or tom ewing's 500, rather than 10-20 scattered entries in a book rammed full of shit indie kid purple prose (ie it'll be like pfork itself in book form!! except it won't make my computer crash at least)

also yeah wtf is the point of "month in grime/techno/whatever" columns when you don't think enough of the genres to represent them in a self-declaring all-encompassing project like this?? but somehow find the room for fucking nonentities like "band of horses" and "jens lekman" and actually ghastly shit like art brut???

ok whatever i don't care. fucking pfork though, get it out of my face.

that you care too much is your cross to bear, you brave soul.

mwah to you too

Ah...if the songs were lesser known I'd probably accuse PFM of its usual obscurantism. Any more popular and it's too canon. They can't win, really.

bingo

lex OTM. The problem of that list is that everything in it that's not indie is indie-friendly.

can someone give me a non-circular definition of "indie-friendly"?

something that david does not like

You know, indie-friendly. Metallica. Thelma Houston. Kurtis Blow. Cutty Ranks. Rage Against The Machine. Indie-friendly.

I sure do hate those indie kids

"Art school white kids with guitars like this, so it is 'indie' friendly because white kids with guitars are 'indie' in crazy ing-a-land."

??

man oh man do I hate them indie kids fancy lads

er shoulda been strikethru: indie kids fancy lads

something that david does not like

― Kevin Keller, Thursday, November 6, 2008 8:17 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark

No, I actually like >90% of what's on the list. What I'm trying to say is that it feels like there was a conscious effort not to make it too indie.

I think you're trying to say that they included token choices.

...which makes it even MORE indie.

I'm not disputing that it's gonna look just as dated and calculated as these other big books once we're a decade removed, but could you define for me exactly what you mean by "indie"? Just "Pitchfork-aesthetic" or what?

Exactly? Well, no I probably can't.

Oh don't be a pedant, it's a reasonable question: to what do you refer when you say "indie"?

Actually no I rescind that. This won't go anywhere, nevermind.

I'm not being a pedant. I was actually really trying but I can't. I can only think of examples of what I consider indie and what I consider not indie. But there's no clear line, and you've made your point. Maybe I shouldn't be using that word.

This is the best I can do

Indie:

Wire, Joy Division, Laurie Anderson, Sonic Youth, Pixies, Pavement, Slowdive, Stereolab,...

Not-indie:

Donna Summer, AC/DC, Metallica, Prince, Michael Jackson, ABBA, Madonna, Cindy Lauper, Salt n' Pepa.

(4 SONGS)
Talking Heads
Prince

(3 SONGS)
The Clash
The Cure
New Order
OutKast
Pavement
The Pixies
Radiohead
The Smiths

(2 SONGS)
Animal Collective
Aphex Twin
The Beastie Boys
Beck
Belle and Sebastian
Bjork
Blur
Kate Bush
Elvis Costello
Daft Punk
De La Soul
Dinosaur Jr.
The Fall
Fugazi
Grandmaster Flash
Guided by Voices
Michael Jackson
Jay-Z
The Jesus and Mary Chain
Joy Division
Kraftwerk
Madonna
Modest Mouse
My Bloody Valentine
Nirvana
The Notorious B.I.G.
Public Enemy
Pulp
R.E.M.
The Replacements
Elliott Smith
Sonic Youth
Bruce Springsteen
U2
Weezer
The White Stripes
Wilco
Wire
Yo La Tengo

Indie kids like disco and Hall & Oates and "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" and Deee-Lite more than they like Rush.

― Enrique (Raw Patrick), Thursday, 6 November 2008

That's your explanation? Indie kids like Hall & Oates, Kylie et al, so that's why they made the list?
Doesn't sound very convincing.

Compare/contrast:

Screw albums: Post your highly subjective Top 100 Singles of All Time as of Right Now

Some amazing lists in that thread.

I'm boggled that anyone would expect something other than an indie-friendly list from Pitchfork! Just as I would be if people complained about a Destination Out book containing only avant-garde jazz and its neighbors.

electroclash/electrohouse seems a surprising omission from the last section...

but yeah of course it's indie friendly, what would be the point of picking a single dance track or something, or even 5 or 6. and what 5 or 6 would you pick and why? for a list like this you need records that aren't part of a symbiotic scene, or that have ceased to be.

yeah i dunno. it's a pitchfork list.

but i just scrolled through it, and it looked like it was probably at least 90 percent actually great songs so tevs to the debate.

Why is it surprisingly an indie music mag created by indie-loving writers and followed by indie-loving readers has a slant towards the genre? And if these guys pretended to be what they aren't we'd all accuse them of the usual multi-cult posturing. Do we need to go back to those PFM reviews that start out with awful academic presumptuousness and opening sentences like "Poor black Americans in 1973 thought that Nixon was..." and other shifting viewpoints and strawmen? People shouldn't be ashamed that they can't be all things at once, psychologically and culturally.

maybe we shouldn't "expect" anything other than indie shit from pitchfork but if that's the case then maybe they should think about rephrasing pretty much every sentence on the book's website to remove the claims to all-encompassing pan-genre eclecticism

Isn't the whole point of this book (and Pitchfork the website as well) to act as a guide to obscure that normal music fans aren't aware of? And if that's the case why the HELL do they waste so much space on this list with boring Rolling Stone-friendly choices like "Billie Jean" and "Don't Fear the Reaper" and "Since You Been Gone"?

Everybody already knows "Hey Ya" and "Crazy in Love" are great songs. Nobody's ever heard of stuff like "En As I Dype Skogen."

um i'd say because this is representative of their opinions, not what you want their opinions to be. it's really mind-boggling that so many people can't at least get past the premise of the book without complaining. i mean, bitch about the selections all you want, but you're really taking issue with their motive regarding song selection? cunga was otm.

xpost: mr snrub, believe it or not, great songs exist both on the radio and elsewhere! shocking, i know, that they didn't limit to just one source! honestly.

Eh. Fair enough.

Right, you do know that Pitchfork is an indie music website. Yes?

lol xp

I can't believe I'm responding to the one truly impossible-to-reason-with person in the thread, but throughout the book, including sidebars, there are 13 songs from the 2step-grime-dubstep continuum outlined-- in a 200-page, 30-year survey created by an American music magazine. This is still somehow going to be an insult though I guess, even though some of those artists-- B15 Project, say-- have probably never once been mentioned in other publications of our relative size (spin/q/mojo/blender/vibe/etc-- and def not in RS, which is obviously much larger).

Granted, there is no way The Lex could have ever known that-- I'll be a far sight fairer than he'd ever be to us-- since you are discussing a list: We didn't make a list; we made a book. It's hopefully a roadmap, a tip-of-the-iceberg music guide to an incredibly splintered 30 years of music. Along with the dude who said we can't win either way-- the first comment on the Stereogum board is basically Kelly Clarkson WTF-- the thing about this being something that can work for your niece or nephew is ideally the truest thing in this thread.

who are you?

Except for "Don't Stop Believing," that is a super list of songs.

Except for "Don't Stop Believing," that is a super list of songs.

this is ironic:

http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2008/11/the-top-selling.html

Don't Stop Believin', the Journey power ballad, has become the first catalog track ever to sell more than 2 million downloads according to SoundScan. First made available through the iTunes on April 28, 2003, "Don't Stop Believin'" has become the top-selling catalog track in iTunes history and the sole catalog track to go double platinum.

I am bored by a song that millions of people love.. oh the irony.

"Don't Stop Believing" is one of the five best songs ever WTF.

it was ironic that you pick that song out of the 500 and i just happened to see that 2 million downloads story today. i never need to hear that song again.

no one does

lol I thought mom was on the drums there for a minute. it would be better if she was.

the thing about this being something that can work for your niece or nephew is ideally the truest thing in this thread.

That is true. I would've appreciated something like this when I was around 16 or 17 and just coming off of a diet of classic rock (and before that oldies radio) and not always knowing where to go next. MOJO was/is good, but you can outgrow your resources and grow complacent. There is also some truth that lists, when done by those with terrific taste, can be a decent bare-bones history lesson, but it seems like the book also tries to tie things together, which will help the younger folk. My only beef is that it doesn't go back far enough. I know we're moving further away from young people thinking of the 1960s as being extremely relevant but I still think it should've included at least the late 1960s. It's another tough call for PFM though because, again, it's about being original and not obeying goofy Rolling Stone canons (which they would've had to imitate had they started in 1965) but at the same time the modern zeitgeist shifts in the mid-1960s to such an extreme extent that you still need the 1960s to explain everything. Beginning a book on modern pop/rock in the late 1970s is like starting an American history book at 1801.

Also, it's helped that they picked just the right song for many of the bands.

There are dozens of incredible records on this list but weirdly it does seem to go to shit at roughly the time Pitchfork began publishing.

I know this is likely to bring forth derision from some quarters but I have never understood the notion of buying a book like this in order to find out what is 'good' and what you 'should' listen to. I have a friend who says he was like this. He told me that in the '70s he felt he 'should' listen to jazz. I have always just listened to what I felt like listening to and my tastes have evolved like that. When I find I like something I am keen to read up on it and find out more information about it, but to look at a list and then seek out what's on it on the basis of that recommendation seems absurd to me. A personal recommendation is different, equally a message board discussion with youtube links, but this kind of tedious book absolutely not.

As for this particular Pitchfork book, I am in total agreement with lex pretend.

Guardian writers take note!

Lex is entitled not to like "indie", but he should probably not then whine on about how the indie-centric website Pitchfork is too indie-centric.

Lex is entitled to like whatever he likes and entitled to call for change where it's needed.

marcello are you asking me to take note of myself?

Oh no Lex, you're the example all the rest of them should follow.

As far as I'm concerned Lex should be chief music writer for the Grauniad.

ladies and gentlemen, marcello carlin!

When I pay money for a newspaper I want its writers to display full knowledge of the topics about which they write.

― The answer is NOT Volkswagen (Marcello Carlin), Friday, 7 November 2008 09:59 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Lex is righteous.

Whining about Pitchfork for being indie-centric is like whining about Resident Advisor for being too into all that faceless techno bollocks, I mean there aren't even any words, where are the songs etc. etc.

Change is constant.

Well at least the book can't be any worse than this thread.

wow, it still blows my mind how some people are so truly offended by this whole thing. i took it as being less something that told you what to listen to than a book that wrote about 500 really good songs. maybe i just need to get angrier though

The book is billed as a 'guide' (ie something that advises, aids or assists) to the 'greatest' (ie 'better than').

lolz not enough experimental stuff lolz 2000-2006 massive US bias but hey srsly fair fucks for at least making a list, i'm sure there's good stuff on there that all of us haven't heard

also weirdly awes props for sticking Boris "Farewell" on there, it probably wdnt be in my own list but thinking about it it's a pretty fundamental moment in a projected Japanoise/indie-pop crossover, and a totally unimpeachable slab of noise to boot

oh grand look who it is

positive interaction darling, these gentlefolk have gone to the trouble

haha fair enough

and i mean mr plag3nhof himself has checked in to the thread, so it's not like we're snarking at blinds

There are dozens of incredible records on this list but weirdly it does seem to go to shit at roughly the time Pitchfork began publishing.

― Matt DC, Friday, November 7, 2008 1:37 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

not exactly shit, imo, but cetainly less...i dunno, interesting or something.

Marcello otm!

I don't know if it's lazy or just uncourageous, but not numerically rating these 500 songs is a huge copout to my mind. You're inherently, and dramatically, making a value judgment to include them in such a small list in the first place. Not taking it all the way through smacks of fear and passes up the opportunity to make a fairly bold statement of Pitchfork's intentions and identity.

Well at least the book can't be any worse than this thread.

― Peter "One Dart" Manley (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Friday, 7 November 2008 12:28 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

This thread is giving me a headache. Maybe wait til the book comes out, 'k? Too many people to quote, but to start with, Scott's right that it's a book, not a list, so it's just ridiculous to get riled up just yet.

Also, as a few others have mentioned already, the average ILM participant is probably not the ideal reader of the book. Yeah, duh, we already know most these songs, and we know a bunch of others that shoulda/coulda been on here. We don't need a "guidebook." Oh well. When I was a teenager in Fresno CA falling in love with music for the first time and trying to figure out where to go, I went straight to books like Trouser Press--when I was a little younger I even cherished my copy of "Stairway to Hell: The 50 Greatest Metal Albums". Those books were like a compass pointing me to something I sure as shit would've had a harder time finding on my own. I didn't have a big brother or wikipedia. There are people out there that love music but are not as obsessive as us. Maybe they'll buy this book and they'll BECOME obsessive.

Maybe this book will look dated and silly in just a few years. That 1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die book does, too, particularly when you get into the last decade. But it still serves its purpose and so will this. (And thank god they didn't rank these songs... that would have made the debate around this book even sillier. Also - "how dare they call this a guide to the 500 greatest"? really? dudes are trying to sell books here. What would you propose they call it? Don't take the marketing copy too seriously.)

"500 Songs That An Indiecentric Publication That Likes Indie Is Into And Maybe Your Little Brother Will Be Too So Put This In His Pipa And Fumar It"

Why no Country?

But Scott its only real purpose was for Ryan to be able to hold it in his hands.

But Scott its only real purpose was for Ryan to be able to hold it in his hands.

Oh. Well in that case maybe he should just buy a laptop.

Nice.

Everyone is highly offended

so is this a torrent yet?
(it doesnt count as stealing music because it's a mix cd)

the way this thread turned from "fuck these people and their ideas" to "can I has torrent?" in two days is like a microcosm of the internet

btw, cool list, scott. I already discovered one song I hadn't heard before and now love.

also, everytime I go out to a bar, my friend brings up an old argument about Rush. apparently he never heard of them so when I said they are one of the 2nd tier if not top tier bands out there he goes and asks people if they are top tier to prove me wrong.

i think everyone would enjoy this more if they focus on the "our" in the title.

pipa and fumar it?

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/business/hancock/blog/300px-MagrittePipe.jpg

haha i know what it meant i just felt like pointing it out since it was a ridiculous phrase even by big hoos standards

That's our HOOS.

I may be a fool, but I'm pretty interested in checking out this book. There are a lot of songs I like on that list, but also a lot that I don't know so well. So I'm curious to see what they say about the songs I like and also want to learn more about the songs that aren't so familiar.

Yes, I'm a little bummed that Rush doesn't appear on here since they've had dozens of classic songs throughout the entire period, so WTF throw a little "Tom Sawyer" in there. But of course, this totally doesn't surprise me since Rush has little appeal to their target audience.

If I were to really complain about anything, it's that some of the song choices don't strike me as the best song(s) by particular groups/artists. This seems to get worse with more recent tracks on the list.

Do these choices make sense vs. some other choice by the same artist?
Duran Duran – The Chauffeur
Prince – Dirty Mind
R.E.M. – So. Central Rain (I’m Sorry)
The Cure – Close to Me
U2 – Bad
Paul Simon – Graceland
Spiritualized – Step into the Breeze
Pixies – U-Mass
Nirvana – Scentless Apprentice
Smashing Pumpkins – 1979
Bjork – Joga
Belle and Sebastian – Lazy Line Painter Jane
Broadcast – Come On Let’s Go
The Knife – Heartbeats
The Streets – Weak Become Heroes
Radiohead – Life in a Glasshouse
Joanna Newsom – Peach, Plum, Pear

the REM and Nirvana songs make perfect sense

1979 is a dope ass song

dum dum dum dum dum dum dum DUM dum dum dum dum

those are all good songs actually that is like a max-circa-2003 playlist

This looks like a pretty great list of songs. It would be great if the people being really critical of it would put their criticism to good work and publish another book. Is it hard to get a book contract to do this kind of thing these days?

those choices make perfect sense as a rough guide to the modern young hipsters' mindset, tho.

1979 is a dope ass song. recognize

When I was a teenager in Fresno CA falling in love with music for the first time and trying to figure out where to go, I went straight to books like Trouser Press--when I was a little younger I even cherished my copy of "Stairway to Hell: The 50 Greatest Metal Albums". Those books were like a compass pointing me to something I sure as shit would've had a harder time finding on my own

when i was a teenager falling in love w/music for the first time, i also went to books and lists to figure out where to go; they led me down all the wrong paths and i wasted too many months trying vainly to enjoy awful music. then i had the most valuable realisation of my life as a music fan, which was to ignore any and all books and lists, and to open my ears to the music which was actually all around me all along.

Good for you.

it seems like they missed about a hundred truly great hip hop singles. i'm not real keen on lists anyway but it's like they barely paid attention. No Janet Jackson? Aaliyah single nowhere near her best, though I pretty much love everything she did aside from a couple Diane Warren type ballads

Do these choices make sense vs. some other choice by the same artist?

Duran Duran – The Chauffeur >> Maybe not, but they prob feel like the obvious ones are too played out.
Prince – Dirty Mind >> Yep, esp. when there are three other Prince songs on the list; this is a good choice for early-period Prince.
R.E.M. – So. Central Rain (I’m Sorry) >> Since they seem to have decided to only include pre-major label R.E.M., it's a good pick.
The Cure – Close to Me >> Yeah, this makes perfect sense (and again, there are two other Cure songs).
U2 – Bad >> Yeah, this is a little weird, but I also have no idea what it is.
Paul Simon – Graceland >> Yes.
Spiritualized – Step into the Breeze >> Don't know Spiritualized well enough to say yes or no.
Pixies – U-Mass >> Not if it were the only Pixies song, but on a list that already has "Where Is My Mind" and "Wave of Mutilation," why not? I mean, you could argue for "Gigantic" or "Debaser" instead, but this is still a top-tier Pixies song.
Nirvana – Scentless Apprentice >> If the idea is "something from In Utero," then sure.
Smashing Pumpkins – 1979 >> Yeah, it's a great song.
Bjork – Joga >> After the first two albums, Bjork doesn't really have any "hits," so this pick is fine.
Belle and Sebastian – Lazy Line Painter Jane >> OK, this one might not make a whole lot of sense; it feels very Plagenhoef-y.
Broadcast – Come On Let’s Go >> I can't remember how this one goes, but does Broadcast really have any songs that would obviously go in a book like this?
The Knife – Heartbeats >> This probably makes the most sense of this entire list; it's their best song, and it's inspired lots of covers and remixes.
The Streets – Weak Become Heroes >> Yeah, this got a lot of attention on "best singles" lists back in '02, more so than anything Skinner's done since.
Radiohead – Life in a Glasshouse >> A little left-field, maybe, esp. when "Pyramid Song" or "Knives Out" are both bigger and perhaps more typical songs from the same album.
Joanna Newsom – Peach, Plum, Pear >> Maybe arbitrary, but no more so than any other song from the debut.

ech, a list is a list, this is a pretty good job as they go, I'm struggling to find much I actively dislike, two million songs I adore missing obv

U2 – Bad >> Yeah, this is a little weird, but I also have no idea what it is.

Actually, never mind, I do know this song, I just didn't know the title.

Spiritualized – Step into the Breeze >> Don't know Spiritualized well enough to say yes or no. - (nitpicking here) a little random, sure, but definitely representative of their early sound. Personally, I'd have gone with "Feel so Sad," "Shine a Light," or "Medication." It is kinda o_O that this song was included, whereas the band was omitted from the 1997-2000 section, but whatevs.

Nirvana – Scentless Apprentice >> If the idea is "something from In Utero," then sure.

Fuck you for this btw

Just to make it clear: I wasn't trying to say that any of those songs on my list suck, just that I can easily think of songs by all of those folks that are way better that didn't make this list.

Basically those songs and various others strike me as odd choices for the "best". I can see that maybe they were trying to avoid more obvious choices in many of these cases, but I would argue that the more obvious choice tends to be more obvious because it is simply a better song.

I also wonder if these songs really were chosen by the everyone list out your songs and then we'll compile the top ones method. I mean did the entire staff of Pitchfork truly reach a consensus that "Life In a Glasshouse" is truly one of the greatest Radiohead songs ever?

i took it as being less something that told you what to listen to than a book that wrote about 500 really good songs.

Exactly! I'm inclined to look at the Pitchfork book like the 33-1/3 books, which of course as a series has its must-reads (Low) and its total duds (OK Computer), and which of course are completely subjective books based on the opinions of their authors. I'll enjoy some of the Pitchfork book, I'll agree with some of its picks, I'll disagree with some others and not like some of the writing as well. Why is this such a bad thing?

Not that i was given a brief, but when I was asked to write up "Weak Become Heroes" the logic behind the choice struck me as it being that it is more likely to crossover/make-sense to people who haven't heard and don't care about garage (compared to the other singles off the first album) while also making sense on its own (compared to stuff on the second album - exceptions of course being "Fit But You Know It" and "Dry Your Eyes", both of which are nowhere near as good).

It was also fun to write about because I could take the angle of rave-nostalgia as a theme that is interesting in and of itself.

Tim, are you able to tell us anything about how the staff came up with the list of songs? Was it based on voting or some other method?

No Tom Petty?

Broadcast – Come On Let’s Go >> I can't remember how this one goes, but does Broadcast really have any songs that would obviously go in a book like this?

Whether Broadcast belongs at all is arguable, I agree; but if you are going to include Broadcast, this is definitely the song.

I'd put Broadcast in there because they are one of my personal favorites, but maybe they aren't really "important" or something. I just think they have several songs that are better.

re: Cindi Lauper - "Girls Just Want to Have Fun"

I assume some sort of obvious proto- "girl power" write up. "Time After Time" is easily one of the best songs of the 80s.

Nirvana – Scentless Apprentice >> If the idea is "something from In Utero," then sure.

Fuck you for this btw

??

see jaymc, when someone disagrees with you on the internet, they have to tell you to fuck yourself. it's one of the rules of participation.

I must add my voice
to the shrill chorus what says
<<NO JANET JACKSON???!!!!???!??!??!?!????!?!?!!!??!?!!??!!>>

yeah, sorry

shoulda ;-)'d it

stuff I can't stand on this list. and i know some of it is well-loved here.

Journey – Don’t Stop Believing
The Replacements – I Will Dare
Beat Happening – Indian Summer
Daniel Johnston – Some Things Last a Long Time
Red House Painters – New Jersey
Teenage Fanclub – The Concept
Blur – Girls & Boys (their worst song?)
The Notorious B.I.G. – Juicy
The Notorious B.I.G. – Hypnotize (zomg)
Guided by Voices – I Am a Scientist
Elliott Smith – Between the Bars
Herbert – So Now...
Belle and Sebastian – Lazy Line Painter Jane (but "state i am in" is one of their few that i like)
Godspeed You! Black Emperor – Storm
Aesop Rock – Daylight (really, really bad)
Bright Eyes – The Calendar Hung Itself (does it matter which song this is? i'm not looking it up)
The Books – Take Time
Madvillain – America’s Most Blunted

I would definitely disagree with you about that last one, although that's def not the best on Madvillainy

Broadcast – Come On Let’s GoLunch Hour Pops - this is definitely the song.

that would be my pick these days too but COLG is probably their most well known song

This list seems to seriously go off track starting around '94-96 - after 2000, it's pretty much a crapshoot.

I do appreciate the fact that they made it chronological - makes it a bit less bafflingly random to read than the Blender list.

how could anyone have a problem with "i am a scientist"?

Robert Polllard played his first solo show last night to a half empty crowd in Athens, GA

i like most of the songs on this list, but it still sucks cuz it's pitchfork, lol

what's the point of linking to that thread, sleeve? it starts off by discussing why pollard drew an average-sized crowd (in a small city like athens, shocker!) and then goes back and forth arguing whether ten dollars is an exorbitant amount to charge for a show, which was rather hilarious.
"i am a scientist" is a perfectly logical pick. It's a fully-realized song with a perfect pop hook and is representative of pollard's growth as a songwriter. i believe pollard said the latter himself somewhere. it's not my favorite song from Bee Thousand either, but I didn't expect "Ester's Day" to make the list.

wait, the Daniel Johnston pick is soooooo OTMFM

I picked this up the other day and have finished the 1977-79 portion. Not too fond of the book's layout, all black and white and orange, but that's a minor complaint. Reminds me a lot of the old Trouser Press guides with author's initials after each blurb. An interesting read, even if I've heard 90 percent of the praises for these songs before.

This list is too rockist and too safe. It seems like they just picked the most popular, rather than best, songs from the standard hipster canon. No other way to explain the selection of One More Time over Digital Love, for example.

Still, I'd rather listen to this list than the Rolling Stone equivalent.

Oh jeeze, I wouldn't.

It seems like they just picked the most popular, rather than best, songs from the standard hipster canon.

That's because it is a poll and not a list. Happens all the time with polls.

This list is too rockist and too safe. It seems like they just picked the most popular, rather than best, songs from the standard hipster canon. No other way to explain the selection of One More Time over Digital Love, for example.

because p1tch4k suxxxorz!!1

cool book, wish it was more visually appealing but the writing is pretty great all around

Mr. Snrub, please do tell us more about how our book was compiled.

haha

question, though, scott. how WERE the songs chosen, if it wasn't done by polling your staff (a la end-of-year lists etc.)?
this is probably laid out somewhere though and i just havent seen it.

I thought the list looked more like personal selections from various writers, not a poll.

The list is cool, but not very sexy. No 'Always on time' by Ja Rule & Ashanti. No 'Mona Lisa Talking' by Al Stewart. No 'Can't You See' by Total feat. Biggie. No 'There She Goes, My Beautiful World' by Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds. No 'Over Like A Fat Rat' by Fonda Rae. No 'Stay Free' by Ashford & Simpson. No 'Lost In Music' by Sister Sledge. Plus, 'Take Ecstasy With Me' is much sexier by !!! than the ok version by its writer.

I am curious why you think "One More Time" is a safer, more rockist choice than "Digital Love."

I don't know about rockist, but as far as safe goes consider the following: To my ears both songs are great, but DL is clearly better. In the Discovery poll ILM voted for Digital Love in a landslide. Making the ansatz that ILM's taste roughly approximates (and to some extent samples) that of the Pitchfork staff then DL really ought to be their Discovery pick (although I think the notion that any given album can only contain one "greatest" song pretty absurd anyway.) On the other hand, OMT is the Daft Punk song that people who aren't into Daft Punk have probably heard and liked. Thus I find its selection suspicious. Of course its possible that the Pitchfork staff legitimately likes OMT more, but many of the selections seem to me to be the artists most famous or "important" song rather than the song that fans would actually listen to most.

Also where's the Life Without Buildings (Juno or Philip) and 4hero (Parallel Universe)?

I breifly browsed over this book today and I actually really liked it. I think my comments upthread were taken a bit more as a criticism than what I originally intended to say, which was more or less this:

maybe we shouldn't "expect" anything other than indie shit from pitchfork but if that's the case then maybe they should think about rephrasing pretty much every sentence on the book's website to remove the claims to all-encompassing pan-genre eclecticism

― lex pretend, Friday, 7 November 2008 01:04 (1 week ago)

Ablaeser there's no specific song on Parallel Universe that deserves to be in a Consumer Guide book (though it's a good album). I'd go for "London Sumting Dis" maybe, or "We Who Are Not As Others", but y'know we could sit here arguing all day.

As for "One More Time" vs "Digital Love", I prefer the latter too, but that's also something that is a bit of an article of faith in ILM, and I think it's quite unusual. Pitchfork overlaps ILM tastewise but they're very distinct, in the same way that ILM overlaps Poptimists or Dissensus but remains very distinct from both.

The lone wilco choice was a strange one, no? Nothing from Being There for one. And "Poor Places"? Not Ashes of American flags or I Am Trying to Break Your Heart? Pretty good over all though. Found it strange to see names like Justin Timberlake dropped, but not Pearl Jam or Metallica. Not that I like Metallica. But they were effing huge.

As for things I'm happy about: the Sufjan and Microphones choice, the leaving out of Coldplay and Goo goo dolls. Thank you for that.Two other songs that maybe should have made the list:The Obvious Child - Paul Simon. And if you're going to mention Bright Eyes, why not Landlocked Blues?

That sure makes 94-96 look dire, even the 2000s lists look better.

hah, i can see a lot of people here disagreeing with every single word koole just wrote

poor places wouldnt have been my wilco choice either i suppose, but that's not what it's about. i'll wait to see what they have to say about it/why it's significant etc. that's the point of the book anyway

I only skimmed the "Poor Places" entry, but I seem to recall an emphasis placed on the song's outro as evidence of the band's experimental leanings. Maybe a mention of Kotche's drumming, too.

It's my favourite Wilco song and I'm still surprised it would have been picked.

"That sure makes 94-96 look dire, even the 2000s lists look better."

You have to try hard to make 94-96 look dire. Plenty of amazing stuff happening at the time.

2003-6 is interesting, the rest isn't, really

maybe all the 2000s are interesting, but getting better

Found it strange to see names like Justin Timberlake dropped, but not Pearl Jam or Metallica. Not that I like Metallica. But they were effing huge.

"Battery" is on the list.

quick q for nabisco or scott or mark or whoever: have i not picked up on the rhyme or reason behind how the songs are ordered per chapter or is there not one or is it a secret?

or are they loosely grouped by genre?

can't believe how good SOME THINGS LAST A LONG TIME is. never heard this before.

Jordan: I'm wary of talking too much about a book I wasn't in the room organizing, but I can give a shot at that one. I think the goal with organizing the tracks was to create as much of a narrative as possible, so that the writing makes sense and the content isn't scattered or leaping from idea to idea. So yeah, that winds up with certain things in loose groups -- because if the text for one song explains a particular idea or sub-genre or moment, you want to put that next to other songs and texts that follow on from that idea.

I don't know if you're looking at the list or the book itself, but I think (and hope!) that as you move through the book, a lot of the connections should be clear and interesting. That's one of the things I like about the process of reading through it all again at once -- the way different writers' approaches to songs play off of one another, and different ideas trace their ways through the text.

yeah, I wasn't there either but the songs are pretty apparently ordered as a playlist, an approach I've always liked.

I think the goal with organizing the tracks was to create as much of a narrative as possible, so that the writing makes sense and the content isn't scattered or leaping from idea to idea.

I'll second this as a reader. The second chapter kicks off with four or five early hip-hop cuts, which is a good example. The rest of the book does this as well, so far. I like it.

it's on my christmas list :D

well i haven't read the book, but that extract about Daydream Nation of pitchformedia put me right off.

good subway sect choice
parallel lines >>> ambition

This is of course hit or miss, but it's nice to skim through the book and read the blurbs by the few writers I try to follow on Pfork. I'll read anything I can get my hands on by Mark R., for example, and his entries in the book are great. There are others as well.

It's a solid list and representative of Pitchfork's general P.O.V. Therefore satisfactory, though unsurprising: as others have said, too heavy on iconic tracks and big singles. Then again, hits are hits for a reason, and this is (I assume) an aggregate list of stuff that got the thumbs-up all around, rather than any individual's more personal scrapbook. In which case, "Heroes" over, say, "Sound and Vision" = indisputable. Would make a GREAT starting point for "non-expert" listeners curious about the history of late 20th-century pop (with an emphasis on what we used to call college rock), and maybe that's the point. More than to impress the vocationally jaded, I mean...

did anyone read the book? is it worth it or not? the list looks ok for an indie lover like me.

i think this is as good as a list of 500 songs can be. i doubt many of you would still be complaining about songs left out if it had been 750 or 1000 songs, and i'm sure the pitchfork staff are also bummed out to have left song #501 and so on on the cutting room floor. but however shitty you think the list is, you have to atleast agree that it does a nice job of giving the rolling stone 500 & other likeminded, out-of-touch contemporaries a run for their money. anyways, i am just happy that wave of mutilation is on there.

i doubt many of you would still be complaining

Never, ever, ever, ever, ever doubt this.

Don't care about individual choices. Care that the minority guitar genre is majority. But is Pitchfork. Fuck 'em.