MASSIVE ATTACK - BLUE LINES (1991) POLL

Blue Lines

Safe From Harm was my least favourite and it still is.

safe from harm vs. be thankful

safe from harm takes it

just as long as my baby's safe from harm
tonight

i used to own both of shara nelson's solo albums! i think they were good...haha you can get the first one for 1p on amazon marketplace now :/

I vote for "Five Man Army" every time this album gets polled.

I once had to get a ride with a rather overbearing acquaintance. I had made up a tape of this for the journey. It was whipped it out of the machine and tossed within twenty seconds - "What is *this* boring shit?!" - and replaced with Strike's U Sure Do on a loop. Good times.

So my vote goes to Safe From Harm - sorry for not sticking up for you all those years ago.

TBF "U Sure Do" on a loop wd be dope.

Yeah, I know. The only thing that stops me giving him the benefit of the doubt is that he's a complete prick.

Sorry to be boring, but Unfinished Sympathy.

US vs 5 Man Army.

Safe from Harm. Great album, except for some of the vocals here and there.

You can free my world
You can free my mind
Just as long as my my baby's safe from harm tonight

"Safe From Harm" is the one that sounds the most like the better album that followed. So that one.

ladies and gentlemen, Geir Hongro!

Unf SYmp

i'm reallly into hymn of the big wheel

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

i used to own both of shara nelson's solo albums! i think they were good...haha you can get the first one for 1p on amazon marketplace now :/

― lex pretend, Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:44 AM (5 days ago) Bookmark

Down that Road still gets rotation from me.

"Daydreaming".

Despite my reservations about them using Wally Badarou's "Mambo" for it. I mean, they use the whole bloody thing!

the title track

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Yeah- this record is a classic- It's my thought that Kanye West has failed to reference Massive Attack as his current output's sonic blueprint-
and the kids think he's breaking ground- it was broken a long time ago.

Gah, forgot to vote.

Great album, except for some of the vocals here and there.

Are you talking about Del Naja's rapping? Cos I've always liked it.

i'm the only one who mentioned hymn, but 4 other votes. WHO!?

Are you talking about Del Naja's rapping? Cos I've always liked it.

― chap, Saturday, November 29, 2008 4:44 PM

I mean some of Horace Andy's vocals, particularly on "One Love".

its vision i love
and not
anotha-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a

― Vision, Saturday, November 29, 2008 3:07 PM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

You have it right Hoos, it's precisely those gimmicky, exaggerated phrase endings I dislike. I mean, what is it with Jamaican singers and the way they pretty much lose their singing abilities at some point?

I'm glad to see Blue Lines the title track at #3, where it really belongs after the two stunner singles. Good work, ILM.

What I mean is, unsarcastically and unironically, I'm happy with this poll. Thanks!

shit I should have voted for One Love

Remember when they changed their name to Massive

my copy of this has the name as Massive, Massive Attack is nowhere to be seen

mine too. it's a vinyl copy in a silkscreen printed mailer.

So tonight "Safe from Harm" came on shuffle, and my girlfriend asked if I was listening to "Beautiful Disaster" by 311. I had never heard the 311 song before, but I do see the resemblance (sadly) -- listen to the intro/bassline part:

the rapping on this is :(

okay woah ho! 311...that brings back weird memories. I was in love with someone who mentioned that famous 311 song. Can't recall it now. Not sure I want to know...

dont know if this has been discussed already but if you google theres a few old radio shows massive attack did for kiss fm in london around the time this album came out that are pretty great.

weird

Pete Tong granted restraining order against former Massive Attack singer

Radio 1 DJ Pete Tong has been granted a restraining order against former Massive Attack singer Shara Nelson.

The DJ told a West London magistrates court that the singer had harassed him with nuisance calls and told his colleagues that she was his manager, reports The Sun.

During the court proceedings, Nelson even gave her surname as Tong and claimed she had married the DJ and had his child. Tong confimed that neither of these statements are correct.

Nelson, who sang with Massive Attack on their 1991 hit single 'Unfinished Sympathy' and on a number of other tracks on their debut album 'Blue Lines', has been banned indefinitely from contacting Tong or his friends and family. She has also been issued with a 12-month community order and will have to complete 80 hours of community service.

A spokesman for Pete Tong declined to comment about the case.

http://www.nme.com/news/massive-attack/58583

Blimey!

that's just crazy

really sad :/

i guess you could say that for shara nelson it's all gone a bit...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EKdbLNH8J54/TZSn8Hn3ycI/AAAAAAAAAII/3-YGXPedQpI/s1600/pete-tong-007.jpg

lol. not a great picture of PT though. must be sad for him, knowing his life has gradually conformed to the idiom made out of his name.

i just want to say that i'm particularly happy about that joke

I dunno, two things:

1) I can't think of someone saying "Shara Nelson" without it sounding like PTong saying it.

2) The lyrics to "Unfinished Sympathy".

I guess he's not going to be playing it again, ever.

'they should introduce her to andy kershaw' - radio 4 gag writer who's almost crushing it

Bizarre and quite sad. Let's just hope he's safe from harm now.

weird shit

and sad

looks like with that restraining order....

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Arts/Arts_/Pictures/2008/02/15/massiveattack460.jpg

the hunter got captured by the game

Despite this turn of events, Tong may still require protection...

*insert no protection jpg*

http://www.easyweddingsearch.com/images/profile-pics/image.php/ACES-Wedding-Car-amp-Chauffeur-Services-image3-174657.jpg?width=100&height=100&cropratio=1:1&image=/images/com_images/ACES-Wedding-Car-amp-Chauffeur-Services-image3-174657.jpghttp://images.pricerunner.com/product/100x100/14723474/Rain-Mac-Adults-Packaway-showerproof-Mac-in-Bag-Black-XL-45-47in.jpghttp://www.aksonline.co.uk/MANAGE/ADMIN/STOREMANAGEMENT/PRODUCTS/IMAGES/thumbnails/ACShampooCombMed7208.jpghttp://www.talktalk.co.uk/shopping/images/er-season12-100.jpg

first the riots, now shara nelson...

the main thing is that now pete is safe from harm.

I can understand the restraining order, of course, but it seems a bit off to give someone community service and a year community order for a manifestation of mental illness.

i mean a relatively harmless one.

Meantime, as DL just reminded me on Twitter -- Blue Lines is twenty years old this year. UK release was April 91, US release was this month, twenty years back. I remember reading a couple of things about it and snagging a copy used shortly thereafter, fell in love with it from the get-go...

Deluxe reissue on the way apparently, though no details yet.

This was the last of the "classic" MA albums I bought.

No love for Lately??? I use to think that song was sexy as hell. Whatever happened to Shara Nelson? She just disappeared after her first album.

I use to LOVE this album back in high school. "Five Man Army" was the only MA rapping song where they were attempting to actually rap. Hehe. I still dream that MA, Tricky, Shara Nelson, and Horace Andy would reunite and perform the entire album.

Whatever happened to Shara Nelson?

haha dude, read upthread 15 posts

the bassline on "lately">>>>>>>>>>>>>

Oh shit that's crazy!!!

the bassline on "lately">>>>>>>>>>>>>

One of the easiest basslines to learn too

i thought i'd posted here about the sad shara news but i guess i did it on twitter.

bob stanley wrote a really good piece in response - http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2011/aug/23/shara-nelson - i didn't know he'd written for her/she'd sung on tiger bay.

So sad. Not the type of comeback I was hoping for. :(

Hopefully she will get back on her feet.

the bassline on "lately">>>>>>>>>>>>>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDatbFGKa0g&feature=player_embedded

We wrote a song called One Goodbye in Ten together that I'm really proud of - Bob Stanley

and so he should be, what an incredible song that is.

If I had to rank everything on Blue Lines, it's like, I know Unfinished Sympathy would be 1st, but everything else would be tied for second place.

also that's really weird news about shara nelson that i had not heard before^

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81ZPmODHsmL._AA1500_.jpg

new remastered and er.. *remixed* edition on the way. package so far looks pretty thin compared to
say the Screamadelica reissue or recent 4 disc ultra-splurges but hey.

I'd order this if they had left off Hymn of the Big Wheel and Light My Fire. They both totally ruin an otherwise great album.

wtf "Hymn of the Big Wheel" is fantastic

and "Light My Fire" is on Protection

Hymn of the Big Wheel has some interesting things music-wise but the vocals feel too much like some sort of 'save the world and clap your hands' shit. I still wouldn't remove it from the record, though.

Are they reissuing Mezzanine and Protection too?

Ha, thought twice about Light my Fire but included it anyway. They're both scars on their respective albums. Really horrible decision to include them.

Including live tracks in studio albums always seemed like a bad choice to me. I can't think of any artist that has pulled it off right now.

By the end of Blue Lines they'd totally earned themselves a Hymn from the Big Wheel, reflective comedown that it is. Horace Andy's voice is beautiful, especially on the last verse when the beat drops out ("an acid drop of rain" etc).

Light My Fire on the other hand should've been cut. Heat Miser is a great last track, Spying Glass should start side 2. I always thought that's how the vinyl was, and Light My Fire was a CD bonus track.

nah it wasn't. i had the vinyl and it was present and correct
http://www.discogs.com/Massive-Attack-Protection/release/49880

Including live tracks in studio albums always seemed like a bad choice to me. I can't think of any artist that has pulled it off right now.

classic albums with (oddly enough) one live track on them.

Weird. It makes so much sense otherwise: both sides 21-22 minutes, starting side 2 with Spying Glass (way stronger track than Better Things), ending both sides with cinematic Craig Armstrong instrumentals...

Including live tracks in studio albums always seemed like a bad choice to me. I can't think of any artist that has pulled it off right now.

classic albums with (oddly enough) one live track on them.

― ┐(´ー｀)┌ (sic)

Cool thread! Had no idea that 'my iron lung' by Radiohead was a live track.

I'm intrigued by the idea of this being 'remixed'. wtf is that going to actually mean? I assume it wont be in the style of "[Starsailor song] (Two Lone Swordsmen Sounds Fuck All Like The Original Remix)" or anything.

ugh @ the reissue industry reaching my generation, money-spinning wheezes for nostalgia-addled old people with disposable income

NOSTALGIA IS THE EMPTIEST EMPTINESS FIGHT IT WHEREVER POSSIBLE

'intrigued' was a pejorative.

how dare people spend money on things they like, they should be ashamed

the first generation ever to be different from and better than all preceding generations!! somebody had better study these people

Money-spinning wheezes for nostalgia-addled old people with disposable income probably one of the few things keeping the music industry going right now. Releases like this always seem pointless unless the original mastering is really poor. Blue Lines certainly doesn't need it.

ugh @ the reissue industry reaching my generation, money-spinning wheezes for nostalgia-addled old people with disposable income

― lex pretend, Monday, 24 September 2012 12:48 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

NOSTALGIA IS THE EMPTIEST EMPTINESS FIGHT IT WHEREVER POSSIBLE

― lex pretend, Monday, 24 September 2012 12:49 (1 hour ago) Bookmark

don't really get how you can have been party (often approvingly!) to numerous discussions on here about trip hop being in the air with ware/delilah/etc and then your best effort for this is some thick empty grandstanding. whatever man

oh have ware and delilah got on to their reissues already? i didn't realise that

possibly life might be more interesting and less ultra-linear than new music is new, good, old music is old, bad

indeed it is

Money-spinning wheezes for nostalgia-addled old people with disposable income probably one of the few things keeping the music industry going right now. Releases like this always seem pointless unless the original mastering is really poor. Blue Lines certainly doesn't need it.

― Matt DC

it is real quiet, though.

its quietness is one of its big strengths IMO

maybe from an audiophile perspective or something, but i am more interested in my playing-it-together-with-other-crap perspective

i understand the beefs kinda but hymn of the big wheel is essential

lex which is worse comedy or nostalgia

it's not quiet.

then how come i have to turn it up to hear it?

The poor showing for "Daydreaming" in this poll upsets me.

It's probably not true but I always feel that these deluxe anniversary reissues are more aimed at giving the album's status as a "classic" the appearance of objectivity, so as to encourage people who never got around to buying it to finally lay down some cash.

Would be interesting to see some actual stats (though who would bother to compile) on the proportion of purchasers that have owned the album before vs first timers.

then how come i have to turn it up to hear it?

bcz your volume knob was too low in the first place

lex which is worse comedy or nostalgia

comedy

nostalgia is a natural emotion, i just dislike the way it's raged out of control in the wider culture lately

comedy is unnatural and abhorrent

Lex do you think nostalgia is actually getting more pervasive or are we just noticing it more as it eats into our own past?

Kinda uncertain myself. I do think that maybe a difference is that even today's kids seem open to the idea that the 90s were better than today, which is something I disapprove of even if that turn out to be correct.

well the nostalgia industry is certainly bigger

Are you guys actually trying to lure the Lex into an agreeing-with-Simon-Reynolds elephant track or is this just an amusing by-product of the conversation?

pretty sure 1960s pop kids weren't getting hype for deluxe Bing Crosby reissues

obv this needs its own thread and i really shd work

Don't think 2010s kids are that arsed about Blue Lines either.

i assume the industry is just targeting the people who never got out of the habit of actually paying for music. i'd guess overall the reissue industry, like the rest of the music biz, is contracting, but i have no figures to prove this.

xposts

I work with someone who actually paid the £200 or whatever for the Blur box set.

i think people do that kind of thing to prove something to the world, like they've "put their money where their mouth is" in terms of their interests. a bit like a football supporter buying all the merchandise.

yes tbf reissues probably aimed at "new" listeners in that respect, they're at least aimed at an audience that was roughly aware of the record when it originally came out.

i do feel that there are new conditions in the sale/marketing of "classic" albums in the 21st century that haven't previously applied. factors feeding this include
- the album as artefact
- a 30/40-something audience for whom pop culture is not radically different to what it was in their teens, in a way that was not the case for 1960s, '70s, maybe even '80s teens
- stuff LG mentioned about the mechanics of "acquiring" music in 2012
- a mainstream media discourse which has absorbed pop music in a way unestablished prior to, say, the mid-90s

just pondering out loud

probably not aimed at new listeners

bottom line for me is that popular music, its audience and its discontents, has been in a unique-ish position for the last 5-10 years. this nostalgia is not the same as nostalgia used to be.

bottom line for me is that popular music, its audience and its discontents, has been in a unique-ish position for the last 5-10 years. this nostalgia is not the same as nostalgia used to be.

I'm not sure I agree with this at all. We're all in our 30s or older (I think), and whilst we're obviously still engaged with popular culture, the popular culture we're engaged with is very much not the same popular culture as 13-21 year olds (as an example age split) are engaged with. We're not, I'd wager, listening to and watching the same things, using the same channels of engagement, the same mediums and technologies, even if, superficially, to ourselves, we like to think we are. I have the tastes and habits of a 33-year-old professional man; I haven't a fucking clue what 15-year-old kids are doing now (though I suspect it may involve Rizzle Kicks and drugs). I think our nostalgia (as an age group) is exactly the same as every other kind of nostalgia that went before it; pining for lost youth and feeling vaguely jealous but uncomprehending of those who are enjoying it now.

i don't claim to "get" what teenagers' experience of culture is now but i'm pretty sure that contempo popular music sounds waaaaay less alien to me than it did to my old man when he was my age, nevermind how 1965 must've sounded to most peeps born in 1925

it's the difference between stylistic tweaks of the established and fairly radical ruptures imo

also i don't have nostalgia for popular music in any meaningful way, certainly not half the crap that was in my milieu in 1992

feel like the alternative is a kind of Whig History of pop music which makes me shudder to even contemplate. that same Whig History is close to the mainstream narrative tho i fear

I think our nostalgia (as an age group) is exactly the same as every other kind of nostalgia that went before it; pining for lost youth and feeling vaguely jealous but uncomprehending of those who are enjoying it now.

why on earth give in to this? it sounds horrible.

why pine for your fucking youth unless you're dissatisfied with your life and your self as they are now?

why pine for your fucking youth unless you're dissatisfied with your life and your self as they are now?

Because people have kids and mortgages and stomach ulcers and bad knees and work stress, Lex, and without those things society would crumble and we'd all die and your magical zesty exciting life would go to shit, too. You can be entirely recobnciled to (and, indeed, happy, and actually heart-burstingly delirious) with all of those things, and still go a bit misty-eyed over dancing in the disco when you were 16.

Because nostalgia can be quite a pleasant thing in certain circumstances. Didactically dismissing it out of hand shows a lack of empathy for people who do engage in a bit of it. I doubt, in fact I know, that most people our age don't walk around in a permanent 90s fug, crying at the thought that no one will ever release a single as good as Unfinished Sympathy or Country House again. It's not the evil force that you seem to think it is. People's lives and tastes change, and every so often they want a reminder of how things were; and that's fine.

More specifically, I don't think many of the people who engage in discourse on ILM are the inveterate, helpless, perpetual nostalgia sufferers that you seem to be wanting to straw-man; that fact that we're here, talking about new music (and old music) says we're still hungry and engaged. My point is just that we're not engaging with the kinds of things that the actual bona fide youth are engaging with. Probbaly not even you.

why pine for your fucking youth unless you're dissatisfied with your life and your self as they are now?

some things become better, others are lost forever, it's the nature of life. nostalgia is hardly owned or dominated by the crappy reissue industry, lost youth or mortality is at the root of huge swathes of the greatest works of art ever made. it's a matter of debate which old things were better and which were worse.

ironically you're arguing that nostalgia today is worse than it was before...

there is a serious difference i think between nostalgia as a personal emotion/experience and nostalgia as a form of cultural expression/production. and i might concede that the former is an unchanging aspect of human nature (tho i don't believe it) but i'm certain that the latter changes thru time and social landscape

Lex is fronting on this a bit, I know full well that if he was at a house party and someone put on Relevee or In White Rooms he would lose his shit and maybe get a bit misty eyed about peak raving days. But that would be defended on the grounds that those records also sound great NOW and in the moment, and arguing about "nostalgia" seems to be denying Blue Lines that same privilege here.

Maybe there are 18 year olds listening to Blue Lines still, it's part of the core DNA of modern pop music, probably more so than the Beatles nowadays. Although if I had to guess which Massive Attack song is most popular among young people it would probably be Teardrop. But none of those kids will be buying the overpriced remastered reissue.

it makes sense to think of some places and eras as more culturally nostalgic than others, i think, even while we recognise that public culture is far from monolothic and human beings are not reducible to the product of a culture

In any case house music (and post-UKG British dance music) are constantly reappropriating and recontextualising the classics. Think how many times 'Show Me Love' has re-emerged over the years.

reissuing a record might just give it to people who hadn't heard it... it's hardly as if the only reissues that ever happen are massive canonical classics, but even so, not everyone has heard every massive canonical classic.

xpost not to mention all the 2-step revivalism that Lex likes.

i think people do that kind of thing to prove something to the world, like they've "put their money where their mouth is" in terms of their interests. a bit like a football supporter buying all the merchandise.

This and Noodle Vague's points OTM, I think there's an element of wanting to have your Absolute All-time Favourite Classic Album(s) stand above and apart from the rest of your record collection, buying something like that Screamadelica boxed set in the massive tin is one step removed from literally putting the album on a pedestal. It doesn't really bother me, I can never afford these things anyway.

I've no idea what '90s music young people listen to or where Massive Attack might fit in but would be interested to know.

At our university open day earlier this month I spotted four teenage boys wearing Beatles t-shirts, one wearing a Who t-shirt, and one wearing a Pink Floyd t-shirt, but none in Blur or Massive Attack t-shirts.

why pine for your fucking youth unless you're dissatisfied with your life and your self as they are now?

the weird thing to me is that you seem determined to align your "life and your self now" with cultural commodities that are, afaict, very consciously made for people much younger than yourself. it's like your pining for/identifying with other people's youths in an effort to maintain a perpetual state of youthiness.

says the armchair psychologist

personally I don't think things were "better" in the 80s or the 90s or any other decade in which I was more directly/heavily invested in youth culture, but it is interesting to remember and reflect on things. this is a basic human reaction to living in a world where time only flows in one direction.

also curious about when lex's cutoff point for listening to a particular album/song is. 6 months? a year? 5 years? at what point is it no longer acceptable to listen to something because it's "too old"?

it's like your pining for/identifying with other people's youths in an effort to maintain a perpetual state of youthiness.

rejecting nostalgism can also be a way to try to retain one's youth. "oh I'm not nostalgic, that's for OLD PEOPLE".

Much of the most exciting music in the world is made by and for young people and has been for like 100 years. Shakey what's your cutoff for legitimately enjoying it?

also curious about when lex's cutoff point for listening to a particular album/song is. 6 months? a year? 5 years? at what point is it no longer acceptable to listen to something because it's "too old"?

i listen to old music all the time

getting excited about re-released box set nonsense is another matter

teenpop is for everyone

i first heard this album in 2010 and i'm listening to it an awful lot. i like to imagine how cool my life would have been, if i'd been listening to this in 1991. am i nostalgic? btw i'm old.

Much of the most exciting music in the world is made by and for young people and has been for like 100 years. Shakey what's your cutoff for legitimately enjoying it?

I'm not particularly concerned with the age of the people making music or when it came out, or even, really when I was first exposed to it. I do not, however, define "my life and my life now" (to use lex's terminology) by any age-related music criteria. I don't think listening to teen pop makes me younger or more closely identifies me with "WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW" or anything like that. similarly I don't think that listening to music that I first listened to when I was 15 is necessarily nostalgia - sometimes it's just interesting to revisit stuff.

it is true I don't like modern teen pop, primarily because it's working with a sonic palette that I find harsh and grating 9 times out of 10. That being the case, I don't feel compelled to listen to it just because it's made by young people/targeted at young people. I don't give a shit about that. My interest in top 40 pop stuff kind of depends on the era and some periods have been better than others - the current period just happens to largely be a wasteland imho.

I don't think you actually understand the point under discussion here.

I'm just needling lex for his weird critical foibles

what point do you think I'm missing?

You don't really have a handle on the critical foibles (partly because Lex isn't making himself particularly clear here) but also what we're talking about really is the commodification of nostalgia.

There's probably a side issue here that all-pervasive fetishisation of 'youth' throughout popular culture actually DOES lead to a lot of people feeling that they're past-it by the age of 30, which I suspect does the reissues industry no harm either, but that's another debate.

eh fair enough.

I agree with others here who have already pointed out that current nostalgia commodification efforts seem very much driven by the industry just following the money ("who still buys music = old people! what do old people like? old stuff!") and in that sense yeah I have no use for it either. the only reissues I buy are things I was not able to previously get my hands on for whatever reason. I don't need a Screamadelica or Blur or Massive Attack or Stone Roses box, I have the originals if I ever want to listen to them.

Wondering if remastering of acclaimed albums will dramatically drop off in a few more years as we get to 20th anniversary of 'over-compression'.

Maybe they'll remaster What's The Story (Morning Glory) so it's quieter and more spacious and you can actually hear Bonehead strumming a lute in the background.

I thin Shakey's hit something there though, in terms of why Lex hates nostalgia so much - it seems like a hatred beyond just the commodification of the concept. If Lex thinks its bad because its about pining for your youth to the point of recapturing it, or trying to, then isn't staying au fait (and deeply involved) with the pop cultural loves of people much younger than you a similar kind of way of trying to recapture / perpetuate youth?

Also, Lex might say "teen pop is for everyone" but I have a sneaking suspicion he'd be grossed out by, say, David Cameron dancing to Azaelia Banks. Which is not beyond the realms of possibility.

But yeah, I'd totally not be surprised by remasters in a couple of years trying to make things more nuanced and less squished.

AZB is not teenpop
I'm amused by the Cameron appreciation of it. Better than all those Labour MPs tweeting shamelessly about indie

I agree that teenpop is for everyone in the sense that all music is for everyone, sure. but old people engage with teenpop in a different way and for different reasons than teenagers do - an old person who acts/thinks/feels like a teenager is a distinctly creepy and sad thing, for ex.

the other irony is that people like lex who obsessively lionize/romanticize youth are precisely the kind of people that become excessively prone to nostalgia

perhaps fetishize is a better word there

I don't think Lex is consciously fetishizing 'youth' specifically, but rather a set of attributes which all signify 'youth' when you add them together.

okay sure

gonna stick with youthiness

Jesus Christ you guys if you can't be arsed to engage with swathes of modern music because you've mentally bundled it into a package labelled "Youth culture - past that now - don't understand" that's on you but at least recognise that not everyone wants to do that past the age of 30. And you're not actually in any position to draw any real conclusions on the people who don't do that because you're not actually engaging with any of the music they're listening to.

if you can't be arsed to engage with swathes of modern music because you've mentally bundled it into a package labelled "Youth culture - past that now - don't understand"

http://www.redtelephone66.com/albumart/aasm.jpg

uh lol hueg sorry

It's hardly strawmanning, it's what you're both doing in this very thread.

If Lex thinks its bad because its about pining for your youth to the point of recapturing it, or trying to, then isn't staying au fait (and deeply involved) with the pop cultural loves of people much younger than you a similar kind of way of trying to recapture / perpetuate youth?

Or...

I have the tastes and habits of a 33-year-old professional man; I haven't a fucking clue what 15-year-old kids are doing now (though I suspect it may involve Rizzle Kicks and drugs).

As if 33-year old men are a monolith.

I'm not even trying to Cap'n Save-A-Lex here because I think he's basically wrong about nostalgia here but some of the attempts at trying to rationalise what he's saying deserve a serious eyeroll as well.

can't be arsed to engage with swathes of modern music because you've mentally bundled it into a package labelled "Youth culture - past that now - don't understand"

but nobody's really said that? shakey said he doesn't like the aesthetics

Matt, dude, I'm not rationalising, I'm trolling.

It's hardly strawmanning, it's what you're both doing in this very thread.

those aren't my posts bro

fwiw I agree w the first bit quoted, the second bit not so much, that's Scick Mouthy's POV

As if 33-year old men are a monolith.

but 15 yr olds are?

(Sorry, I misread and thought the first bit was actually yours, although I was attempting to argue with both of you at once)

xpost - of course not.

i spotted a massive attack appropriation i hadn't identified before just today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rIhwNTTmZ5s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIhwNTTmZ5s

|i was looking back to see if you were looking back at me to see me looking back at you"

Okay so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aKneOGGFs8

I can't hear any difference over my phone speaker, but those extracts are mouthwateringly put together. Also:

The only thing that stops me giving him the benefit of the doubt is that he's a complete prick.

former me making current me laugh

is there anything at all wrong with this record

not enough Horace Andy

i don't know what all these idiots were talking about upthread but if it implied it is bad for there to be a remaster then they are idiots, i listened to this record in the 90s and the remaster is life-changing

it's a *remix* not just a remaster that's the issue IMO. i don't want to get all 'Han shot first' but i wanted it the way it was.

you can't go back once your life has been changed

30 years old today apparently!

Four and five and six love
But I believe in one love

But zero votes

that's the curse of being everyone's second-favorite song

when I bought this one they'd been pushed to shorten their name to Massive because of some bizarre gulf war sensitivity that I still don't get. Lol the long 50's more like!

same! Did yours come in a screen-printed mailer envelope?

I have some vague memory of seeing that but I bought my copy of the "Massive" album in the cassette format. Good job whoever the minister of defence was at the time never heard a radio 1 dj call them Massive Attack and take then it as a coded message to nuke Iraq.

I might sell mine, actually, it's worth a fair bit.

just seen one on e-bay with the cardboard envelope and in slightly damaged condition on sale for £500

oh the vinyl is mint condition it's the promo poster that is slightly damaged.

Lately 0

huh...

By the time I bought this album in 1999, Sony’s wireless Budokan headphones were utterly forgotten. No longer part of the culture at all. And yet 3D’s lyrics in half the tracks consist of shout-outs to this product. I was totally baffled by what he was rapping about, and if it hadn’t been for the internet, I probably would have stayed that way.

My understanding was that it was actually referring to this - which I had no idea about even back in 1991 when I was listening to my tape copy!

Admittedly high-end Japanese technology didn't always filter through to Australia, but I sure never saw one of these.

Would love to give one a listen though - I have a fucked up DD Walkman (uses a silicon disc instead of a belt drive) and it actually sounds incredible.

This (below lyrics) says it was actually referring to THIS.

"Every rap track has a reference to Sony, yeah! It’s not a plug for them though, it’s just that Sony and their Walkman’s are such a massive influence and the Sony Budokan is the ultimate portable sound experience, extra bass and a really huge sound. They even give you a cushion to sit on while you listen to it. It’s a totally obsessive object and if you have something that you’re really into, you constantly think about it, so when I think about words and music I constantly think of my Budokan, it’s that simple. I also think about Subbuteo…"

lol

My bad, I assumed the Sony Budokan Walkman itself came with wireless headphones, since 3D also raps about the “wireless” revolution “started by Marconi”.

I can’t get over how old 3D was when Blue Lines came out – twenty-five was already an advanced age for anyone involved in graffiti and dance party scenes (and Daddy G was even older). Frankly, it seems a bit old to be so passionate about a toy that you name it in every track.

Isn't there a fair chance though that a lot of the tracks on Blue Lines had been kicking around for a number of years from The Wild Bunch days?

"wireless" here being an old (mostly British English) term for radio, wireless headphones existed in 1991 but were definitely unusual

The red Budokan looked like the perfect kit to listen to this on.

https://www.walkman-archive.com/gadgets/sony/photos/previews/SONY-Walkman-Boodo-Khan-red.jpg

someone has a mint condition boodo khan cassette player/headphones set on ebay for $1595

now all I need is a tape copy of Blue Lines

His lyrics are so timeless to me despite being extremely 90s.

Isn't there a fair chance though that a lot of the tracks on Blue Lines had been kicking around for a number of years from The Wild Bunch days?

― groovypanda, Thursday, July 27, 2023 12:42 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Most

the recent 33 1/3 recently published is instructive about the assembling

Yeah. Exactly where I learned this from. :)

ooh, I didn't know about that one. purchased!

Thanks for the 33 1/3 recommendation. Reminds me that Neneh Cherry was part of the scene. Another artist regarding whom I was shocked when I read about her and found out she was much older, and already had such a long career by 1990, then I would have suspected.

In fact, if Blue Lines is a culmination of Wild Bunch stuff that had been going on for years, there must have been some cognoscenti who regarded it as the end of an era, just as the rest of the world was seeing trip-hop as this new thing.

Frankly, it seems a bit old to be so passionate about a toy that you name it in every track.

― Melomane

Not sure about that maybe he was a pioneer lol, taking a stroll around reddit - which is filled with manchilds - you’re not sure if the comments come from 15 year olds or 45 year olds.

Shit I still obsess about Massive Attack every now and then and they were a band which were instrumental for me when I was 13/14. A pair of headphones seems like the sort of gadget you can obsess about at any age tbh.

Also I wouldn’t dismiss headphones as “toys”

I listened to US and Protection a ton back in the Napster days

ok, I’ve read the 33 1/3 book now. not my fave of the series and it misses some bits, but overall I’d recommend

not sure what to make of the headphones talk here, which seems ahistorical! portable radios were fairly widespread by the time the core of Massive Attack were kids, but the ability to listen to your own music, wherever you wanted, didn’t really appear until the sony walkman in 1979 (outside of Japan, post-1980) when 3d would have been a teen.

maybe it’s less comprehensible what a shift this was, but today’s headphone ubiquity probably traces back to that moment.

I would also recommend Bjork’s classic song Headphones. (Produced in collab w/Tricky!)

Happy 35th anniversary to one of the greatest ever.

I've been playing "Hymn of the Big Wheel" and "One Love" often.

This has to be one of my most-listened-to albums of the '90s, never got old.

They did a killer live version of Safe From Harm on MTV2 (Deborah Miller taking over on vocals)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7n9gMzMhZc