Sleeper vs The Strokes

Cracked me up, he really didn't look like it until he decided to hit himself in the head with the microphone during the last song.

Pain = fun

As for Casablancas hitting a mic over his head - (adopts Beavis and Butthead accent) 'Uh huh huh cool'. Sorry folks, I'd far rather have my front person looking like a sassy, sexy girl next door type than some spotty posh kid.

'There he comes, she swa-ah-hah-ah-lows, that's no lover, that's a vanity thief'.

Genius.

People who like to invert and surprise, eg Mark S, should by rights come along and stick up for Sleeper.

Sleeper are pretty much the same though and that is my point. The only difference between the two being that, if you can get rid of your snobbery towards honest throwaway indie for two seconds, Sleeper never really pretended to be anything they weren't. They wrote great pop songs, Louise sang about 'doing it till we're sore' (gasp! A WOMAN, how dare she, singing about such things - NME prove their male dominated, hushed up male dominated stance once and for all by saying Wener is simply 'a slapper'... and please hype Eminem more boys).

They made some of the finest raido friendly pop tunes of the mid nineties (need I role them off?) and for a time actually seemed to be on top of the world.

And, at the end of the day, they were sexier, sassier and had more to say than The Strokes.

see also Catatonia, Placebo

eg sleepers wake up

'Is This It' is v. cleverly arranged/played/produced, there's almost no filler, the lyrics to 'New York City Cops' and 'Last Night' are pretty funny, and the lead singer is sexier. But I wouldn't be surprised if we have to wait five years for a 'Second Coming'-style follow up.

Calum, did you once write a review of a Loren Mazzacane Connors gig for some website or other? It's the only review that has ever prompted me to write an angry letter to the editor!

Anyhow - Sleeper actually chose their own name (they were previously called 'Surrender Dorothy' and they became Sleeper because that's then name of Lousie's favourite Woody Allen film.

I get pissed with this whole 'she shagged the Sleeperblokes' shit. Look - fuck off. Who cares? If this was a guy led group where the bloke shagged everything in sight would there be this sort of 'oh what a bastard' shit? No. Julian Casablancas admits to accepting blow jobs from groupies but hey that's cool cos he's a guy. One of the bad dates Amanda 'groupie par excellance' DeCadenat - but that's cool cos he's a guy. Led Zeppellin put sea food up a woman's twat but, hey, that's cool cos they were, like, rock n' roll.

Meanwhile Louise Wener's long term boyfriend was her guitarist, they split and she ended up with the drummer (I think that's right) who she's STILL TOGETHER WITH. So how this makes her a slapper I have no fucking idea. NME, of course, would rather hype Eminem who is a great influence on the 9 year old boys buying his crap.

Sleeper were great. A female fronted band that happened to write catchy number with, often, funny lyrics. The words to 'What do I do Now?' are far better than anything The Strokes have come up with. I mean, 'Spaceships they don't understand' - oh cheers for that mate. And the words to 'Swallow' ARE class.

Ignoring the Strokes comparison, though, I stand by Sleeper just being sort of there and vaguely interesting, and I'm actually sort of mystified that anyone really liked them: I always pictured them as one of those bands whose records people picked up fourth on their lists and then stood around saying "Sleeper? Oh yeah, that record was nice enough."

I must say, though, Calum, that I'm disturbed that you point up the complexities of Louise's sexuality as this big daring plus and then (rightly) criticize people for paying negative attention to it: the former is sort of dependent on the latter, no?

Also were their lyrics possibly only good if you caught UK references I was missing? I remember them being, say, 10% clever, 60% obvious, and 30% clumsy, with the "obvious" portion subdivided into halves (boringly obvious versus functionally obvious).

I don't think this is right. I think it's a back-projection into history of the sense that '96 indie was mediocre and anonymous'. Maybe it was - but while they were in the news, there was something much more extreme and divisive about Sleeper than that. If you were enjoying one of their songs, you wouldn't say 'it's sort of there' - you'd think, I really like this track. And if you were dead set against them, as many people were and are for various reasons, then they wouldn't be 'sort of there' - it would be a source of massive annoyance that they were still there at all, and rather than being 'vaguely interesting' they'd be 'deeply irritating' or worse.

I think nabisco's comment might possibly be accurate as a statement of how 'pop history' will regard, or does regard, Sleeper - which is fair enough; but I don't think it registers the fact of a band's presence when they are Now rather than Then.

re. lyrics: I am largely on nabisco's side: they were the sort of lyrics that people who *think* they are good lyricists write, and that make the pinefox groan with the evident gap between estimate and actuality. There is a whole sub-genre of PSEUDO-CLEVER LYRICISM within 'indie' which I may have mentioned before: Sleeper are exemplary, but Shed 7, Gene, even Blur have also given us many instances.

NB when I say they were "just sort of there" I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean, they were "just sort of there" in my record collection and in my CD changer, which is many steps above being "just sort of there" on the radio.

I don't think I pointed out the 'complexities' of her sexuality because there aren't any: she was a young girl who was dating a member of her band, split with him and dated another band member whom she's still together with 8 years later. I think that Sleeper did sing about British things ('The Queen is Dead' reference on 'Dress Like Your Mother' the whole lyric of 'Statuesque' and 'Shrinkwrapped') and I for one think the sex references in the songs (specifically 'Swallow', 'Delicious', 'Nice Guy Edie' and 'Statuesque') are now kinda cute. And I stand by 'What do I do Now' as one of the best break up songs ever written.

I like Sleeper a lot to be honest and never felt they deserved the shit they got from NME. Any paper that can still, with a straight face, give the new Travis LP an 8 out of 10 review and hail Andrew WK as a messiah, has its faults. I think that their 'Wener the slapper' attitude had everything to do with the repressed, upper middle class, closet sexist scribblings of such assholes as Steven Wells.

Just a thought...

In part what I'm saying is that I'm surprised you found lyrics like those worthy of pointing out: maybe it's just me, but I found them pretty much unsurprising and fine and once again just sort of there. I dunno, maybe if I'd been reading the NME calling her a slapper I would have cheered her on a bit more for doing it -- but I don't see any stances she took (lyrically) about sex or gender being particular inventive or controversial.

I remember Justine from Elastica saying she hated taking her top off for a Select shoot, but she ended up being talked into it. Then when Elastica returned NME was more interested in whether or not she was shagging Brett Anderson than if 'The Menace' was any good (which to be fair is debatable anyway).

Quite like Louise Wener - think she took a lot of slack, made some dopey comments (her comments on vegetarians were especially uncalled for) but still released some corking songs. I guess the point I was making was that Louise sang about aggresive female sexuality, and I get the impression that it 'turned' some journalists on, but also allowed for them to pigeonhole her as a slut.

Funnily enough, the same old NME is now making a case for Princess Superstar as some feminist icon.

you make no sense. The only sense I can make of your comments is that you fancy Louise and do not fancy The Strokes because they are - shock, horror - rich kids.

Both bands are inconsequential like all pop music. The rate of turnover in 2002 is frightening and journalists frantically grab onto any musical driftwood press officers put their way that pleases their ears. You muppet.

Now, matey, if I simply judged music by whom I fancied then I'd be out there buying Kylie, Sophie Ellis Bextor and fucking Atomic Kitten CDs, but that just aint so. So keep your dipshit opinions where they belong: in your diary.

I don't dislike The Strokes either - if you'd read my posts you realise I like them a great deal, fab pop tunes and all. I just happen to think Sleeper have a lot in common with them, and produced BETTER pop tunes.

Case closed. Now go drown yourself in a bath full of goat wank.

you're a funny muppet too

you've clearly never bathed in 'goat wank'. It is great for the pores

I listened to S*M*A*R*T last night. I still kind of like them.

I find water more effective. And less laborious to obtain.

This is the most amazing thing said on ILM possibly ever!

She's gone blonde now you know.

you should have left us bathing in our goat wank. Like one of the other respondents, what you said after some lighthearted banter about the goat wank, is quite possibly the best thing ever written on ILM.

Now are you laughing or crying about the seriousness that most people approach Sleeper and their tedious songs

If Louise is a minger then what does that make you? Betcha she could've pulled anyone in her hey day, and bet you're other half's idea of exercise is walking to the nearest donut shop and collapsing on the telly in front of Jerry Springer.

"Go Jerry... lesbians that fell sexually attracted towards fat Islamic men"

Man, I pity you. But it will get better. You will fins your Mayfair dream girl in time. Just hang on.

Meanwhile, leave Louise alone. Maybe we'll meet at their comeback tour in 2006. Maybe we won't. In the mean time, good luck with chomper.

Calum: what do you think of lydia lunch?

Cerys Matthews? Look man, there's nothing wrong with you. Many people are openly gay in today's society. Just come to terms with your sexuality and you'd be surprised how many people will accept you for what you are.

if you think ppl that like her are gay then you have problems. And they not only with your taste in music.

you're skating on thin ice as your thread goes out of control

you have resorted to arguments in support o Wener by slagging off the contributors comments

Red card offense in my book

why have all the contributions to this thread been against the idea that Sleeper were good except from your good self?

I wish this was just about hot or not LW is, but Calum is sticking up for her tedious music...

I never said, or even hinted, at Cerys bleeding Matthews being a lesbian. Though if she was she'd be a bloody butch one.

Instead I insinuated (sorry to anyone who actually 'got it') that Cerys could only be perceived as sexy to someone who is slightly confused about their own sexuality, and most likely to want to touch another man's bum in the shower room (i.e. a rugby player or David Beckham).

It's the whole Cerys = looks like your PE teacher in drag thing.

I was actually sticking up for Sleeper. Great pop tunes - some of the best of the Britpop period in my opinion. Statuesque, Swallow, Nice Guy Eddie, Sale of the Century, What do I do Now? etc - all catchy tunes with witty lyrics. Don't see the problem at all.

Or is someone gonna tell me that 'Mogwai' is the way music should sound? "Screeeeeeetch.... but it's art - it's wanky... it's great. Oooooh look at me I'm indie! Anyone seen my girlfriend? What do you mean I don't have one and need to wash my hair. It's Mogwai for godssake! It's charting at number 98 in Saudi Arabia"

Cough cough.

Excuse me - your last comment just made me cough my lungs up because I couldn't stop laughing.

What a jolly japster you are. I believe Cannon and Ball are currently looking for a support act for the summer season.

"Sleeper at the Ilford Island was the first ever gig I went to. Yes, I am ashamed.

DG (rgreenfield@btinternet.com), June 24, 2002."

Well it serves you right for being such a twat then doesn't it? I can just see you with your NME in your hands wondering what is 'cool' enough for you to listen to or to recite to your mates (should you have any) who will give you a blank look because the bands you like are bought by only 0..0009% of the population and hardly dent the indie top 200. But never mind cos Steve Sutherland said it was groovy. I bet you're the kind of womble sodomiser who refuses to dance to Steps in a night club on the principal of retaining your 'indie cool', even though that simply means you're a knob head who has never had his willy touched by anyone except his fat sister in a drunken moment you'd probably rather forget.

So in closing - it serves you right for going to see an 'in' band at the time, who - because they are now 'yesterday' and not credible in the Mogwai/ Beta Ban circles, are suddenly 'crap' in your opinion. Even though they aren't and you are indeed a fickle strand of bum fluff.

Who's next? Ah yes, some monkey fiddler calling themselves Julio. Well mate I guess cos you've got a crap name you have to try and protect your own under confidence by uttering dreadfully unwitty comments, but I shall reply like the gentleman I am.

"To actually believe that Sleeper have written 'catchy tunes with witty lyrics' means that you are more qualified to be canon and ball's support act than me. I've been laughing at this thread ever since it was started."

Exactly how can YOU be the sole judge to what is 'catchy' or 'witty'? Or do you want to start a music dictatorship? You Nazi! What others find 'witty and catchy' may not be what you find to be 'witty and catchy' but that does not make them wrong. For instance, if I found out that you broke your neck while trying to give yourself oral sex I would piss myself laughing.

Does that mean I'm wrong or does it make you a silly bugger?

Answers on a postcard...

you call yourself a 'gentleman' but you 'insult' my name. And how 'witty' is that?

''Exactly how can YOU be the sole judge to what is 'catchy' or 'witty'?''

Heard the singles on the radio and found it all appaling. We can all be judges! Every time a band puts out a single it is our RIGHT to say that something is 'crap' or not.

''Or do you want to start a music dictatorship? You Nazi''

You posted a thread and found that most ppl disagree with you and the line above smacks of desperation. I suggest you masturbate for a couple of hours to get rid of all the shit inside your head.

Unlike you.

And YOU are the one falling into name slinging (I am simply stating facts, if you had indeed not tried to give yourself oral sex sometime in the past or sexually molested primates then you'd simply ignore the comment altogether instead of getting worked up).

And why are you so fixated with me masturbating??? Hmm, sounds like you spend too much time behind your keyboards looking at Thai kiddy fiddling sites for your own good.

And you are still 'insulting' me! Poor calum- Sleeper has damaged your brain.

That was my only point.

And Sleeper is but a tiny, small part of my record collection sitting alongside (golly gosh) everything from The Stones and the Pistols to The White Stripes and Mercury Rev.

A word of warning: if you keep whacking off so hard then you're gonna need to do a kung fu death grip on your willy in order to stop the bleeding.

Wanker.

That actually comes from a story abt Marvin gaye that i read in Mojo mag (didn't buy iy but i read the story in WH smiths). When he was making an alb. he (according to one of his assoaciates) used to lock himself and wank for a couple of hours to get rid of that 'energy' so he could clear his mind and get on with the job in hand (making a record).

So calum, i thought you might find it useful.

''And Sleeper is but a tiny, small part of my record collection sitting alongside (golly gosh) everything from The Stones and the Pistols to The White Stripes and Mercury Rev.''

You sound like you've been reading NME all your life. You're a fucking retard, in other words.

''A word of warning: if you keep whacking off so hard then you're gonna need to do a kung fu death grip on your willy in order to stop the bleeding.''

Are you speaking from experience here?

What is your opinion of Skullflower?

Are you saying THAT YOU GIVE UP! I 'win' yet again.

Calum: What do you think of Fushitsusha?

Sleep tight and don't let the bugs BITE!

Calum: What do you think of Band of Susans?

Anyway, I'm off to get on with this thesis of mine. That's the only reason I've been replying to this shit today - it gives me brief repentance from this shit. What's your excuse Mr No Life?

*Julio likes obscure goth bands. *Julio does not go out much. *Julio does not dance in a night club. *Julio is sexually attracted to monkeys. *When bored, Julio is likely to try and pass the time by peeing in his own mouth. *Julio does not like Sleeper.

The last point would be fine if, as I seem to suspect, Julio simply does not like anything with a tune.

As an aside, I have a good joke.

What's blue and does not fit?

A dead epileptic.

And now you mention it, why the fuck aren't Echobelly headlining Glastonbury? Are you trying to tell me you'd rather stand and watch Rod Stewart or The Stereofuckwitts?

Look mate, there is but one answer to this: why don't you and Julio get together and see how many toy soldiers you can fit in each other's rectums. It will no give you both endless hours of fun.

[That goes for you too, NotCalum — Forum Moderator]

*Julio likes obscure goth bands.

Check out skullflower's carved into roses and band of susans the word and the flesh alb. If that's goth then goth's are a GOOD THING!

*Julio does not go out much.

I do go to gigs but yes, I am studying and am loving it. You sound very frustrated there writing your thesis and am sure you're spilling bile disguising it as a sleeper thread. *Julio does not dance in a night club.

How did you get that from this thread. This is wild thinking on your part. I like a good dance.

*Julio is sexually attracted to monkeys. *When bored, Julio is likely to try and pass the time by peeing in his own mouth.

This is just sexual frustration of an NME reader. Start paying your girlfriend if she is not giving you enough.

*Julio does not like Sleeper.

''That's true. The only you're correct abt so far.

As an aside, I have a good joke.

What's blue and does not fit?

A dead epileptic.''

Cannon and ball will contact you soon.

Calum: What do you think of Derek Bailey?

But why, david?

But that thread does indeed prove beyond all reasonable doubt that he's a fucking jerk.

Snoring boring twats of the highest order, but then I have given your life a purpose for a small while I guess...

I still like Sleeper anyway - couldn't really give a shit what Julio 'obscure goth band' thinks.

What do you think of Anthony Braxton? (he's not a goth, that I am sure of).

So go stick a lawnmover up your ass and switch it to full speed.

spackle is the scottish polyfilla

do you see where a pointless last for Sleeper takes us... a description of Polyfilla vs Spackle

Tell you something about the importance of their music

TREE-mendous

My opinions are far more valid than yours. You are a sleeper fan, after all.

Your useless thread has led down the wrong path: spankle vs polyfilla in addition to ppl hating Sleeper (though not as much as me).

Calum: What is your opinion of ascension?

Found out about Broadcast...and Polyfilla. So I guess, overall, this has been a good day.

Ignoring the pointless and admitedly aggresive vulgarity there, I actually did just want to discuss music on this thread... so here goes.

"If the album tracks are better than the singles, then Is This It might be a 7 or 8 out of 10".

It's a very good album Lord Custo. I would say give it a whirl, I like The Strokes a great deal and the tunes are fab - they just don't really 'say' anything to me.

"Regarding Sleeper: haven't heard a single note of their music. They get no airplay here. But I have a weakness for girl-led guitar indie bands from Britain. So if they are as good as Elastica or Garbage (who aren't actually British) then I'd probably dig them. Subthread: Elastica or Garbage vs Sleeper...FITE!"

I really like Garbage and Elastica as well. I like Echobelly too (there's a shock). Personally I don't think Sleeper had an LP as good as 'Version 2.0' or 'Elastica' - but they produced some singles that were at least at the top end of the Britpop genre. There best album is 'The It Girl', although it now sounds dated it still has a warm nostalgic poppy feel to it.

''"If the album tracks are better than the singles, then Is This It might be a 7 or 8 out of 10".

It's a very good album Lord Custo. I would say give it a whirl, I like The Strokes a great deal and the tunes are fab - they just don't really 'say' anything to me.''

Calum- The strokes are SHIT! And why oh why do you need bands to say anthing to you?

''I really like Garbage and Elastica as well. I like Echobelly too (there's a shock). Personally I don't think Sleeper had an LP as good as 'Version 2.0' or 'Elastica' - but they produced some singles that were at least at the top end of the Britpop genre.''

The fact you like Echobelly isn't a shock. It's to be expected since evryting you've said you liked is fucking crap.

Calum: what do you think of Descension?

Sound good?

Well that aint nothing. Cos when I'm finished doing that I might be forced to have Alison Moyet sit on your face while she eats curry pot noodles, laced with laxatives, and masturbates herself into a fury. All over your ugly little mush.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

And maybe this will teach you something worthwhile: SISTERS AND BROTHERS SHOULD NOT REPRODUCE OTHERWISE TWATS LIKE YOU WILL OVERUN THE WORLD.

Is that the bands you follow on your 'local' scene? Man, a bands' name gives a VERY GOOD guide to its worth. Only fist fuck rock but forget the other two. Just dump with all the britpop garbage your mama fed you when you were young.

''What do you think of me crawling through your computer screen next time you have your wrinkly little maggot out and you're giving it a stretch over some fat ugly 80 year old having granny sex with your uncle Fred and pulling out your ball sack and force feeding it to you until you choke on your vomit? Sound good?

Well that aint nothing. Cos when I'm finished doing that I might be forced to have Alison Moyet sit on your face while she eats curry pot noodles, laced with laxatives, and masturbates herself into a fury. All over your ugly little mush.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

And maybe this will teach you something worthwhile: SISTERS AND BROTHERS SHOULD NOT REPRODUCE OTHERWISE TWATS LIKE YOU WILL OVERUN THE WORLD.''

I will ignore the 'pointless and admitedly aggresive vulgarity' (quoted a prev. post from you there) displayed not only above but in most of your previous posts and not only to me but to others who (shockingly!) disagreed with your opinion.

I think the taching is over for today, see you tomorrow.

Calum: What do you think of Peter Brotzmann?

''Now, now, Julio. Relax. This isn't a dick-measuring contest, its just a bunch of very edgy people debating music.''

Custos: I am very relaxed and am enjoying this discussion. Calum talks as if he has no dick, you just have to read some of these posts again. His girlfriend must surely have some BITE there, if you know what I mean.

Hmm, does that include the response where I mentioned The Stones, The Pistols and Nirvana or do you dislike them because they sold more than 10 LPs?

I get the impression you're a very sad cunt actually, who just sits alone in his room listening to obscure shite that is going nowhere and sells to no one, but if it makes you feel like you have a big penis and might one day have someone touch your arse other than your toothless, fat, beer swilling, inbred father then so be it I guess.

And to prove what a real shit licker you most certainly are - I made the names of these fictional bands of mine up. So 'Fist Fuck' rock do they? Hmmm.

Get a life - one that doesn't involve masturbating in your mum's cupboard while she takes your dad up the ass with her big vibrating Mr Jolly strap on.

Can't talk abt Stones but Nirvana and the pitols were overproduced. Tabloid controversy also played a part in the pistols success.

''And to prove what a real shit licker you most certainly are - I made the names of these fictional bands of mine up. So 'Fist Fuck' rock do they? Hmmm''

You sound like the biggest arse licker of all time. So you will only buy things if they make money and are flogged by corporate businessman. You only seem to like 'industry' approved stuff. I'm not saying all of it was bad but you only seem to be looking at one side and damn any other bands that just want to play a gig and make music because they enjoy it (yes they want to make some money too of course, we've all got to eat) instead of shit bands like sleeper who are only interested in making the big bucks.

''And to prove what a real shit licker you most certainly are - I made the names of these fictional bands of mine up. So 'Fist Fuck' rock do they? Hmmm.''

I was gonna ask but if there was a band called 'fist fuck' then it would be 'interesting' I'm sure.

''I get the impression you're a very sad cunt actually, who just sits alone in his room listening to obscure shite that is going nowhere and sells to no one, but if it makes you feel like you have a big penis and might one day have someone touch your arse other than your toothless, fat, beer swilling, inbred father then so be it I guess.''

Do you kiss your mum with that filthy mouth of yours.

"You sound like the biggest arse licker of all time. So you will only buy things if they make money and are flogged by corporate businessman."

Ah - a 'No Logo' reader huh? Listen pal, you can't step out the door without doing something that is sold to you by rich multinationals. Where does that oil come from that runs the trains? Maybe Shell? Maybe Exxon? What do you drink? Where do you eat? What clothes do you wear? How do you travel? What films do you watch? YOU ARE TRAPPED BY CONTEMPORARY CAPITALISM AND THERE IS SWEET FUCK ALL YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT, INCLUDING YOUR ASSY LITTLE MAY DAY PARADES.

I'm not saying I agree with this, but until someone comes up with a full proof way to replace capitalism and keep everyone happy, nothing will change. I've thought about it a lot, and I aint got the answers. Have you?

"You only seem to like 'industry' approved stuff. I'm not saying all of it was bad but you only seem to be looking at one side and damn any other bands that just want to play a gig and make music because they enjoy it (yes they want to make some money too of course, we've all got to eat) instead of shit bands like sleeper who are only interested in making the big bucks."

HAHA - yes Sleeper made the big bucks didn't they? Oh yes. Of course they did.

Listen aim your venom at U2.

What you seem to be saying is: 'I only like industry stuff that fits into my own ideals.' This is censorship of the most vulgar and ignorant kind. Instead you like to sit and listen to obscure local bands, which I'm not criticising. and in doing this you seem to think you are on a higher moral plain because your money aint going to rich stuffed suits at Sony/ Geffen etc.

Fuck off. These little bands would sign their big $$$$ in a heartbeat and you know it. Why? Cos everyone wants to make a living out of doing something they enjoy. Otherwise the music would be a hobby and their day job would have to be the thing paying the rent. And that day job would no doubt STILL be serving the man in the suit, only doing something shit.

That is why so called 'alternative punk' bands are full of shit. It is also the same reason why Radiohead and Rage Against the Machine's anti-capitalist diatribes are flawed from the start.

If the bain of your grudges is a throwaway indie band that had fleeting short lived popularity in the mid 90s and which remind me of some of the best times of my life, then I think your anger is in the wrong place.

What do you think of The Mosquitos btw?

I am talking abt oil industry, travel, food and so on. I am talking about music, and in this case you seem to think that because we already consume petrol, etc. that we should consume rub. like sleeper, or corporate rock of the type that the Strokes serve up.

''Fuck off. These little bands would sign their big $$$$ in a heartbeat and you know it. Why? Cos everyone wants to make a living out of doing something they enjoy. Otherwise the music would be a hobby and their day job would have to be the thing paying the rent. And that day job would no doubt STILL be serving the man in the suit, only doing something shit.''

As i said in my previous thread everyone is got to eat, and yes, I know that it is difficult (and, insome cases, impossible) to lead a straight life in this society, but the thing is the corporations would never touch any of it because the music I listen is too full of life and surprises that the living dead out there, ppl like you could never appreciate it. You already dismissed as something 'local' or by sayin that it sells little and therefore thre's no point to even point the ear towards it. You are closing yourself from the world.

''What you seem to be saying is: 'I only like industry stuff that fits into my own ideals.' This is censorship of the most vulgar and ignorant kind. Instead you like to sit and listen to obscure local bands, which I'm not criticising. and in doing this you seem to think you are on a higher moral plain because your money aint going to rich stuffed suits at Sony/ Geffen etc.''

If a major label releases a good alb (Lou Reed 'Metal amchine music' or Tony Oxley's 'Four compositions for Sextet', '154' for instance and loads of good singles and so on) then I'll snap it up in an instant, like all of us.

records do say things abt you I guess, there is a thought process that goes on where a record buyer (and his/her values) can fit into notes, I think (music isn't made in a vaccum of course, it isn't 'just' notes on a page) (though of corse there are many exceptions).

''HAHA - yes Sleeper made the big bucks didn't they? Oh yes. Of course they did''

They were marketed but of course sometimes the public at large will see sense. Well, most of it did, as you mentioned they did enjoy a brief moment of popularity.

''calum may be a vulgar brat, but julio, you are a pompous ass. Apart from an occasional inspired moment from skullflower, all the stuff you mention is pretentious, tedious wanking (or sub-Sonic Youth plodding in the case of B. of S.)''

g- so I suppose you have listened, and yes, it isn't to everyone's tastes, that's all. Either that or you have only heard it once, and because it didn't 'fit' with what you liked you threw it away. It doesn't mean I'm a pompous ass, it means your brain has been dulled by corporate rock. The fact that you think Band of susans is 'sub- SY' seems to confirm this. B of S were quite different of course but I get far more enjoyment out of listening to the 'word and the flesh' than anything SY have released in the 90s, though 'murray street' is quite good.

Then you can carry on.

Oh yes Julio - people like me.

Your mum and dad vote Tory don't they?

My friend - if you contract cancer of the left testicle it will not be one day too soon.

P.S Your arguement was laughable. Which is why, for the first time, I refuse to even lower myself to indulge in it. 'Lou Reed was cool and all that, but other stuff on major labels sucks. Unless I like it. Then it's kinda cool and stuff'.

Funnily enough when i thought of ''ppl like you'', i was thinking of MUSICAL TORIES like yourself calum.

It's fine if you like some of this 'Britpop' stuff, what is wrong is to dismiss the stuff I like because the NME hasn't written about it (and yes, I do like the first Oasis alb and Pulp's different class).

''P.S Your arguement was laughable. Which is why, for the first time, I refuse to even lower myself to indulge in it. 'Lou Reed was cool and all that, but other stuff on major labels sucks. Unless I like it. Then it's kinda cool and stuff'.''

Lou reed's solo stuff is shit. And I never even mentioned 'cool' here. Only MMM is any good because he stops writing stuff like 'songs' and goes on an all out sonic assault. My argument was fine (unlike your insults, the insults of a man that yes, has prob lost not one but two testicles).

You know i'm right! That's why you won't answer it! (you ans to my other ones and my prev post is just a very logical extension to that).

Which is why I'm the one who, further up this thread, described Cerys Matthews as a 'real woman'.

Hmmm, so you like butch manly possibly transexual she-males huh?

Something you're not telling us monkey boy?

P.S. Of course you like Different Class. You decided to bin them when they went all prog on your ass with This is Hardcore. 'No, that's not prog, Shine on you Crazy Diamond, now that's prog' etc etc You could argue with a wall couldn't you Julio the testico?

Calum- you are that wall I'm arguing with.

''P.S. Of course you like Different Class. You decided to bin them when they went all prog on your ass with This is Hardcore. 'No, that's not prog, Shine on you Crazy Diamond, now that's prog'''

That's what YOU are saying, Calum. i never thought of pink Floyd when hearing tracks from this is hardcore.

Concerning prog i only like king Crimson's 'Red' (that's the only one I've heard so far, amybe also aamon Duul II's Yeti). But that's not prog, that's fucking ROCK. You wouldn't know 'cause you like Sleeper. You wouldn't know it if it bit on the ass, Calum.

Your taste in woman is as bad as you rtaste in music and your political views. And your manners.

So just give it a rest. It was fun to give you abuse for a while but now it's boring and I fear you really are a complete a twat in real life.

Yes, it was fun giving abuse (eg. 'You are a sleeper fan' is far more abusive than any 'abuse' you gave me).

Any way, I hope this was 'educational'.

Alex, you confused homo - go stick a carrot up your ass and spin.

Thank you.

hmmmmmm... repressed much?

Since when did I use homophobia or say homosexuality was wrong?

You know what is wrong with this world? People who are far too PC for their own good. If you can't take a joke then you must have a pretty sad life. What a shame that people will never live as one as long as there are people like you around to remind them of their differences.

I should add that this is the only reply on this entire thread that shows any degree of wit. Even if he's wrong.

Sleeper split up five years ago now. What you don't understand is that a fourth album would have been the best one yet...

Since when do we pretend to speak for them Lord Custo? Isn't it a bit homophobic to presume that they do not have the intelligence to make up their own mind over what is funny and what is not? Ditto for myself and Scottish jokes. I'll be the one to tell you if I'm offended or not and I'd expect the same from those of a gay orientation on this board. If they claim to be offended by my non- homophobic jabberings I will point out that I am not, and was not, abusing their sexuality or treating it as abnormal.

Bernard Manning is a fat racist git. Fucking wake up.

By assuming that they need a cover my friend you are saying that homosexuality is something they need to hide. Why? I would say, Julio excepted, that we are all pretty liberal people on this board.

And I urge you to show me where exactly I said homosexuality was wrong? I can't seem to find that fictional remark that you accuse me off.

So sorry if you never 'got' the joke. It was not aimed towards abusing your sexuality, which I would never do. Nor would I ever aim to offend anyone who is gay, as I'm sure it's pretty tough 'coming out' and being unsure who your real friends are. I convinced a buddy of mine to come out when I was 18 (I was the first person he told, though it was blatanly obvious) and he has had an easier life ever since.

I think that homophobia is gradually dying down. Maybe in my sheltered student life I don't meet any homophobs, but I think this way of life is becoming more and more accepted.

You apparently live a bubble. I'm gonna ignore the "way of life" crack, but I do want to say that referring to homosexuality as a life- style choice is exactly the mode of thinking that conservatives in my country would like people to keep to.

What the FUCK are you babblying on about primate child? Yes I happen to think that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. And where, per se, did I say this pile of nonsense? Try reading what I write you daft bastard. You're the sort of person who looks at gay people and thinks they need your protection and sympathy and as long as you, and others, keep thinking like that equality will never happen.

We are all the fucking same so let's start treating each other that way eh? No one wants your stupid little assumptions.

sorry alex, this has been priceless

1) You said it. I didn't assume.

2) You just reiterated it. It's confirmed.

3) You have no idea who my sex partners are, so any assumptions you are making about my sexuality and my politics really are your ASSUMPTIONS.

You must save this behavior for the web or you are already locked up in real life. I cannot imagine people tolerating the insane drivel which spews from yr mouth for very long.

Look I'm going out in a bender in exactly two hours and this is taking up too fucking much of mt study time - but I said 'way of life' meaning exactly that. We all have a 'way of life'. In your case you probably get up, beat you todger until it bleeds, go back to sleep, go the job centre, rape a stray animal, flash at some kids, go home, contemplate suicide, instead go on the net and take out your frustratons on intelligent and handsome chappies like myself.

That is YOUR 'way of life'. And good for you. My 'way of life' is to study, be with my partner etc.

I was not making any comments about homosexuality/ hetereosexuality being a 'lifestyle choice' when I do not believe for one minute you can choose or dictate your sexuality.

Fucking arsehole.

I second that!

People. People. People!
The Homophobia/Homosexuality Issue WILL NOT BE RESOLVED IN YOUR LIFETIME. I'm sure there are plenty of threads on OTHER FORUMS for debating this subject. Can we please PLEASE PLEASE get back to something less controversial....
Like partial birth abortion or the tax code?
Or (now here's a nutty idea) lets talk MUSIC?!

Like howsabout this question:
If the Strokes are the Television for Generation Y, then what niche is Sleeper designed to fill?

Christ, I've don't think I've encountered such a bunch of cock rockets in quite some time (if ever).

Enjoy your weekend (no doubt spent on here you mateless twats).

Nice weekend geek boys.

Bye.

I make Julio's worthless life worthwhile. He HAS to reply to me. He has no one else. No friends, no partner, no nothing.

I feel only pity.

It is not nice.

OK, I'll do some work now.

L0L00L00L0L00L0L0L00LLL0L0L00L00L00L00L00L00L0L00L00L0L0L0L00L00L0L00L00L0L0L00L0L0L0!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@#!@

How come no one ever tells me about these things (apart from the fact that you all secretly hate me, of course) ?

ps love to N_Rq mad props frrom such as such do never goo un-noticed.

best thread ever
-- man, Wednesday, 24 December 2003 16:11 (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

OTM

I want to see a picture of Calum! I, too, love Sleeper and all manners of britpop. I need to know if my male counterpart is hot!

I dislike both of them. But I saw both of the live at various points and The Strokes pissed all over Sleeper.

That must have been some show.

Ha! Actually what happened was that the The Strokes pissed all over The Doves but unfortunately not in that way.

I'm for the new supergroup formed by Louise Wener and journo John Harris (the friend of Damon Cunt Albarn and Donna Junkhead Matthews)

Wait what?

http://vu.morrissey-solo.com/sleeper/2000/news/070320.htm

apparently.

That's one mixed up web link.

Velvet Underground, Morrissey Solo, then Sleeper?

I also red it somewhere else that they play in Crouch End

I'm never leaving the house again.

or

I really hope it's at the Music Palace, or whatever it's called.

Will Harris be the new Dimebag Darrell? Only time will terll.

Also tell.

I've been listening to some Sleeper this evening.

"Nice Guy Eddie" doesn't really go anywhere, also Louise is dressed like Molko/Jas Mann/random other late 90s "I AM SO AN-DRODGE-EE-NUZ" dude in the video.

"What Do I Do Now": this is pretty dull. "She's made up like glue", apparently.

"She's A Good Girl": horrid.

That's it.

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/fiction/article1525387.ece

maybe harris gave up the guardian gig to take them to the next level.

"softly-spoken"

It's like they're trying to make Jaymc cry

they both suck, obvs

Calum W. is a British writer and film critic. His books include Minds of Fear and Taboo Breakers and his work has been published in such magazines as Neo, Dreamwatch, SFX and Fangoria
In addition, Calum has worked as an associate producer on The Collingswood Story and Brotherhood of Blood.

i knew it!

In a better world The Collingswood Story would be Calum's weepy tribute to Fountains of Wayne

I've been listening to some Sleeper this evening.

-- Dom Passantino, Friday, 28 December 2007 18:45 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

Proof! You are a mentalist.

Calum W is a British writer and film critic. His books include Minds of Fear and Taboo Breakers and his work has been published in such magazines as Neo, Dreamwatch, SFX and Fangoria
In addition, Calum has worked as an associate producer on The Collingswood Story and Brotherhood of Blood.

-- J0hn D., Friday, 28 December 2007 21:23 (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

Dude even had a cover feature in Bizarre. They've not even given me one yet :-(

I like the Strokes. They're like a boring version of Blondie. I like boring things.

now i understand nme readers

He still has the same haircut.

Franz Ferdinand and Killers > Sleeper > The Strokes

Although none of the other acts have ever made a song as great as "Sale Of The Century", Sleeper's one true classic.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4945/robotvp8.jpg

Liking the Strokes puts me in a tiny minority on this board doesn't it?

I don't think so, akshully.

good spelling, I may use that.

Don't forget to credit me.