Sonic Youth - "Murray Street" C/D

Jim: "Well, we could always try....." (hijinks ensue)

Still, I'm looking forward to the new one - have ppl heard it on Audiogalaxy or something? I'm such an old fart, I like to wait until I can hold it in my hands.

I like NYCG+F too btw. But then I like Dirty best so what do I know?

There was a ten minute programme on C4 (in UK) in early hours called pioneers. They did one on SY and EP was there and he talked abt SY and their connections to GD.

Haven't read review. In canada they are only selling John Oswald issue!

Ghosts and flowers was OK but the vocals were awful! The poetry was fucking garbage and I hate Jim O'rouke!

OH GOD, please, gimme some Borbetomagus reissues. Now theres a truly great band from NYC.

Did you know SENEGAL just beat FRance! Its a shocker people!!!

The review's not too bad in context - it's a lot like a MM review from the early 90s: all those adjectives!

Now for the Blevin Blechdom review...

Dirty = SY goes metal = greatest rock album of 90s. ("Wish Fulfilment" = #1 monster power ballad smash in parallel universe).

!!!

(But yes, it is better than most of the stuff 'Da Yoof' have released in the 90s).

if that's the case the so be it!

15 Perfect Songs by Thurston & Jim
Styx - Grand Illusion
Supertramp - Take The Long Way Home
America -Sandman
Doobie Brothers - Another Park, Another Sunday
Gerry Rafferty - Half A Chance
The Damned - Help
The Groundhogs - Cherry Red
Patto - Man
Sparks - Thanks But No Thanks
Judee Sill - Jesus Was A Crossmaker
Whitehouse - Ass Destroyer
Catherine Ribeiro & Les Alpes - Libertes?
Jo Jo Gunne - 60 Minutes To Go
Queen - Fairy Feller's Master Stroke
Rush - La Villa Strangiato

I think I'll go listen to Brighten The Corners now.

o'rouke's production is nice. and I like his bass playing, at least what I often assume is his. some sonic youth albums, the production feels too flat and dead to me - makes it harder to appreciate the sounds of the guitars. here even the fairly boring guitar parts are more interesting to me because of the production.

I find G&F very hard to listen to, though sometimes I find it kind of beautiful, so I think it's interesting that this record seems so similar to that one in many respects. there are more 'riffs' and 'songs' here, for what that's worth, but a lot of the musical elements seem to be shared.

I wish someone besides sterl would take up sterl's point about pavement so I could see if it made any sense or not, because I've never heard any pavement like this but it would be nice to.

I was interested to see that the fan photos in the liner notes were of people who seemed to be very young (the girls at least, who are the ones focused on). it reminded me that there could be people out there who have a bunch of sonic youth albums and love them all, that sort of teenaged fandom thing, or teenagers who only have one or two or have heard them for the first time, all that range of stuff - and that that kind of approach to SY is often forgotten about, it seems, when talking with a bunch of old grouches oh blah blah blah daydream nation blah blah blah. (I was pleased to see that the pitchfork review said something in the same ballpark at the beginning.)

Sterling, I think you're REALLY overworking this Pavement thing...

I only got to give it a cursory listen last night, but I like it quite a lot. But I'm not as fond of SY as a lot of people - I think Pitchfork summed it up well when they wrote "yeah, I like them a lot, and I respect them... but they're not a lot of fun to listen to."

(I haven't actually listened to Murray Street in its entirety. I scanned it at a record store. It sounded all really good and well-played but unexciting in a laidback and predictable way.)

in what way?
fuck,this album is impressing me more as it goes on...almost over now,and i'd love to listen to it again,although it is six in the morning so i'd probably better get some sleep...i might listen to it again tomorrow and try to post a more coherent version of my thoughts on it...

1) It's better than the last 2 Geffen albums. Either this or Washing Machine is their best Geffen album since Dirty. I'm relieved that they're singing instead of reciting 'poetry' and that they're not singing about conflicted goddesses whose lush eyes show surprise at how we gather knowledge.

2) The live performance of "Karenology" was a lot better than the recording of "Karen Revisited". All the dynamics were flattened on the record. The melody is nice and the song-noise is good. The instrumental noise section isn't bad in its own way but I don't know if I'm totally sold on what they're going for structurally with this song. Why are the song and the instrumental noise bit tacked together? It worked well live.

3) "Rain On Tin" was more impressive live but the guitar interplay is still great. Kris, I'm curious if you've listened to this track (again?) and if you have, what you think of it. Just because it reminds me of something you said in another thread about how there's a certain kind of interplay you like in stuff like Marquee Moon and "YYZ" where it's like one guitar played with four (or six?) hands. "Disconnection Notice" is well put together also.

4) "Radical Adults" is so tightly constructed it could fit on Goo. The Lou Reed name-dropping is a little cloying though.

5) At first I found the vocal melodies a little blah but they grow on you. The whole thing is well-played and nicely shaped. I first thought Kim's voice was poorly suited to "Sympathy" but now I think it's great. The overlapping drones and puncturing high notes are great. SY don't rock anymore but that's OK. There's lots of other places to go for rock.

they sing instead of reading beat poetry, which is a nice change fromt the last rec (prob what put me off but i must buy that again and reconsider it). The track with borbeto in there is really beautiful but there isn't a dud track it seems.

The bass sound is fantastic: never thought I'd say this but well done Jim O'rouke (even though I won't buy any of his own stuff since I've had bad experiences with it).

It only really cooks when they get to "Rain On Tin." Had the whole concert been at the emotional tenor of the first couple tracks I wouldn't remember it at all.

of course, send me an email...

the boston boot is cool, though *someone* is hideously and atrociously and unforgiveably out of tune on 'Radical Adults'... go find the acoustic session they did in boston, i guess around the same time. and the fukuoka boot, at the end of the NYCGAF tour, is about my favourite SY boot.

OTM!!! No grunting either.

Thousand Leaves, that's it.

I just checked this thing out of the library, however, and listened to it all the way through and it is incredibly tedious. There's one Kim Gordon song that's short and okay (though still standard fare from these guys all these years later) and the actual song proper part of Lee's song is okay. The rest of it sounds like '90s Sonic Youth or Pavement, but entirely written and performed while they were...what? Nodding off? Already sleeping?

Yeah, there are a couple of moments in the long jams that are OKAY, but they're not all that and am I really expected to sit there and wait for them? Hard to believe that the record company even released this thing and hard to believe that Sonic Youth don't realize that there are plenty of people who could make a better record just by improvising rock songs right on the spot and putting some fucking energy into it.

Also forgot to mention that "Radical Adults Lick Godhead Style" and "Sympathy for the Strawberry" are embarassingly bad song titles.

Sonic Youth is my favorite band, but I honestly don't see what other's seem to see in Murray Street. Something about it is a bit off;it's really stiff sounding. It's the only record on which Sonic Youth sounds... old. "Rain on Tin" is excellent, however.

i think this is an unusual achievement

Anyone who doesn't like Murray Street on a clear summer day is quite quite mad. It feels likes it was made for specific moments in time, just to emphasise certan feeling, and is really very wonderful for that.

I liked A Thousand Leaves more, and yet I kept A Thousand Leaves for so long thinking one day I would want to listen to it again and after some years, when I hadn't played it, I realized how irrational I was being and sold it.

Anyone who thinks "Plastic Sun" is the best song on the album clearly doesn't get the point. (It's the one song on Murray Street that makes me wince.)

i think this is an unusual achievement

What is even more unusual to me is that they are still making records that people rank among the best of their career, over 20 years since their debut.

Yeah, either that or they get the point and think it sucks.

That is an unusual feat, comparable to The Cure peaking on Disintegration, or Miles on Up with It.

"is sonic nurse done in this dreamy style?"

"Peace Attack," the last song, is, and wouldn't be out of place on Murray Street.

Empty Page
Rain On Tin
Dripping Dream
Mariah Carey And The A.C.D. Handcream
Karen Revisited
Stones
New Hampshire
Sympathy For The Strawberry
Paper Cup Exit
I Love You Golden Blue
Peace Attack

Audience churn. Every three albums it's an entirely different crowd of 20-year olds having their minds bamboozlized.

(Unlike Hawkwind.)

This just seems so overstated to me.

Miccio I dig your Sonic mix, man. I think I will make that tonight.

I totally hear that. I think maybe it was Austin City Limits, or some other show, they played before Wilco, and did mostly Murray Street songs. Has anyone seen that? Everyone, even Jim, looked like s/he had something to prove; the whole thing just blew me away, even more than seeing them when they opened up for Neil Young way back when.

Nope.

"Sugar Kane" = the song that always involuntarily comes into my head when I hear the words "Sonic Youth"

This is quite possibly the wrongest thing I've ever seen on ILM.

Second listen same as the first, and there's no way I'm listening to this all the way through again. Songwriting is poor. Lyrics are often cornball. Jams are tedious.

I guess these albums aren't masterfully intricate in the way of Leo Brouwer or Fred Frith or I don't know what reference point you might use. But I think they're good albums in an aesthetic that may be roughly comparable to that of Marquee Moon, say? I think there is something going on, as much as there is with Sister or Daydream Nation. (I don't think those albums necessarily have anything more in the way of 'songwriting' or lyrics than these. They're just louder.) I don't know about the Pavement comparison but I only know the first 2 Pavement albums. Thought you liked them anyway?

Sonic Youth is my favorite band, but I honestly don't see what other's seem to see in Murray Street. Something about it is a bit off;it's really stiff sounding. It's the only record on which Sonic Youth sounds... old. "Rain on Tin" is excellent, however.

Oh man, I was sooo wrong. After like 3 years this album has grown on me in a HUGE HUGE way. Up there with Daydream Nation and Washing Machine... I tried listening to Nurse the other day and had to turn it off >_

(does that actually mean anything?! He's right, very right, that's what I imply!)

I like Murray Street but last couple times I listened it really seemed to support O'Rourke's "I saved Sonic Youth" boast. All the little stuff going on, which for me makes the record really work, sounds like it's coming from him.

Disco Inferno!

I really like Murray Street. I enjoyed Nurse but it's a bit on the lite side overall I think.

I like the "Disconnection Notice" video.

SHE WAS THE ACID QUEEN

It is the empty page i like

It's the fuzz bass in Disconnection Notice I like

Somehow I thought everyone but me wrote this album off. In hindsight I don't know where I got the idea. Really loved it.

Didn't care for Sonic Nurse. It was probably good but sold it based on some notion I had that it was Sonic Youth by numbers (and based on the fact that I was BROKE). Mistake?

Haven't heard the latest.

It's only okay

Murray Street is easily my favorite of the last four or five albums. It's still slightly puzzling to me that it's the only SY album of the past 20 years that Christgau didn't give an A.

i think of Murray St and Sonic Nurse as a pair, almost like one giant double album, and easily the best SY stuff post-Goo. The new one is okay, but not as good as either of these.

Yeah, I really went right off Rather Ripped a year later, where the 2 before it have aged pretty well.

yeah, so i listened to it twice yesterday for the first time in at least a couple years and i've got to agree that it's still hold up nicely

It does hold up ("Rain on Tin" especially), but as a first draft for Sonic Nurse and Rather Ripped.

Yeah, I really went right off Rather Ripped a year later, where the 2 before it have aged pretty well.

OTM ^

i think I group them together because jim o'rourke played bass on both of them (and produced them) so as a result they seem like they came from the same place, aesthetically, kind of a return to the Daydream Nation sprawl. Rather Ripped seemed more perfunctory to me. Although maybe it isn't, I dunno.

so murray st/nurse = daydream nation and rather ripped = goo/dirty. I guess SY have been around long enough that, like Bowie, their albums seem totally self referential now, even in their progression. Hopefully this doesn't mean someone will lodge a lollipop in Thurston's eye anytime soon.

Alfred OTM.

still don't like this one

its their most Television-y album. a lot of the stuff on it reminds me of "the dreams dream". definitely would be in my top 3 favourite SY albums.

i don't think i'll ever get ppl who rep for this over sonic nurse tbh

i havent listened to that one since it came out. loved "unmade bed" and "golden blue"...cant remember the rest

sonic nurse and murray st. kinda blend together for me. love both of 'em.

except for "peace attack" sonic nurse was a letdown after murray street

nurse is more muscled, varied, and developed than murray street.. ms feels meager in comparison. i could see digging MS more for its melancholy vibe, but it feels weak in comparison. i like how "dude ranch nurse" touches on the instrmental middle-latter section of "becuz" (very similar drumming/guitar intensity)

i think this might be the only sonic youth album i like

jim o's bass rules

o'rourke needs to rejoin the band!!!

nurse is more muscled, varied, and developed than murray street

I think this is precisely why I like MS more than SN.

MS might be my fav sonic youth album

yeah mine too. probably a lot because it was the first time i bought a SY album when it actually came out.

its their most Television-y album.

except the drumming on the two television albums is far more concise, quirky, and tailored to the song forms of those albums. steve's drumming on MS is really bland to me, as he seems to just set up a basic bed for the guitars. though i guess that's why people like steve's drumming? dunno, the songs feel very uninteresting because of it.. wish he could even be more 'lean' or sparer, if anything. wish he relied less on his straight-ahead, "stock" comfort patterns.

i'm a big Shelley fan but comparisons to Ficca definitely do him do favors. i like his more restrained drumming style on later albums but Murray Street is one where he is kinda taking it easy and being a backing player even more than usual.

don't know what you guys are smoking. i mean steve's drums are huge on "the empty page." even when he's quiet during thurston's little filigrees you feel their absence. on lots of the other songs he's pretty synced with what jim's doing too

How 'bout Rain on Tin, huh? I mean, that... that's a song.

ha ha, i started this thread nine years ago! yeah, 'rain on tin' is the jam--i still listen to it quite a bit. 'marquee moon'-esque in the best way possible. that live recording from terrastock in 2002, when they played the entirety of 'murray street' in order, totally smokes--i was lucky enough to be there (toby and ned were there too, and maybe brian? i forget.)

oh man, total hilarity at the beginning of this thread, where i critique the review in the wire line by line...little did i know back then, in 2002, that i would start writing for the wire about a year later. the funniest part is, i reviewed the next sonic youth album for the wire ('sonic nurse', i believe, in 2004), which i did not like. i didn't slam the album, but i was pretty lukewarm in my review--'murray street' aside, much of their more recent output was not for me. anyway, that was my first experience getting hate mail. which was also hilarious.

Liked Murray Street, didn't like Sonic Nurse, LOVED Rather Ripped, didn't not like but didn't love The Eternal. Come to think of it, they've been batting about .500 for me since Goo-ish.

Which is weird, because SY appreciation is such a nuanced thing. If you played a song from Dirty and song from A Thousand Leaves to some schmoe on the street, he/she wouldn't be able to differentiate them at all.

^^ haha yeah, exactly

which is why a statement like: Liked Murray Street, didn't like Sonic Nurse, LOVED Rather Ripped, didn't not like but didn't love The Eternal

makes ZERO sense to me. how can someone totally dig 'Murray Street' but not the stuff after that? I mean, it's all Sonic Youth, they don't alter the sound *that much* from alb to alb

As an old school fan who grew up with 'Daydream Nation' - and yes, actually thought it was the greatest album of all time -- 20th best ? not sure , not bothered with going there... -- 'Sonic Nurse' was their best album since Daydream, no question

Pretty sure the first SY song I heard was "Teen Age Riot" (saw the video), but the first album I got into was Goo. Who knows why some albums click with me and some don't (NYCG&F excepted, because I only know a handful of people who rate that one at all), but where you think Sonic Nurse was the best since Daydream Nation, I think Rather Ripped was the best one since Goo—yet, I don't think DDN and SN are similar any more than Goo and RR are similar. But again, we're talking about shades of gray here.

hey, i grew up with 'daydream nation' too--but c'mon, what about the stuff before that? 'sister'! 'EVOL'! 'bad moon rising'!

All cool, but didn't hear any of them until later. iirc, I bought Goo first, then DDN and then waited until Dirty came out before I really began working my way backwards (when I discovered that both Sister and EVOL are unassailable!).

which is why a statement like: Liked Murray Street, didn't like Sonic Nurse, LOVED Rather Ripped, didn't not like but didn't love The Eternal

makes ZERO sense to me.

why? they are all different albums!

i liked murray, LOVED sonic nurse, thought rather ripped was okay if a bit straightforward.. haven't heard the eternal yet. sonic nurse seems a bit more jammy/proggy and sprawling than murray and especially rather ripped. i like my SY jammy and sprawling.

the last 4 albums are more similar to each other (in general aesthetics and production) than any other SY albums before that period, but i totally understand how they have different strengths that appeal to different people.

this is one of their best albums

one thing that irks/bores me about MS is the structure of disconnection notice.. it sounds too much like the template (verse structure) used for self-obsessed and sexxee.

hmm yeah i can see that, never occurred to me

the last 4 albums are more similar to each other (in general aesthetics and production) than any other SY albums before that period

OTM. It wasn't until SN that Murray Street clicked into place.

one thing that irks/bores me about MS is the structure of disconnection notice.. it sounds too much like the template (verse structure) used for self-obsessed and sexxee.

this is a great insight. I think most of MS could arguably be described as songs from EJST&NS stretched out A Thousand Leaves-style

(though not exactly in that fashion)

i am one of those people who will rep for nyc ghosts (it is sometimes my favorite sy record) and it definitely provides a kind of context for what happens in murray street

Interested to see upthread that sonic youth is brainwasher's favourite band... Dont usually see him on rock threads

had the same reaction about some dude saying the same thing some time ago tbh

but some dude's always been a nineties rock fan.

tru confessions--this is prob my fav sy album because kim's presence is minimal and avoidable

This is the only SY album I can say I love, as opposed to merely appreciate. The jams are languorous, and yeah, minimal Kim is for me a plus, maybe b/c her songs are usually the most aggressive, & that's the aspect of SY I like the least.

It's also their shortest, which makes it easier to absorb.

their most pastoral too, i think

Would give A Thousand Leaves that bonor.

"bonor" hehe. "a thousand leaves" was the only SY album ive ever sent back. love "friday" and "hoarfrost". maybe i should re-visit it. its funny hw everyone here has wildly different takes on what albums they prefer.

I have to disagree that the last four are very similar. Jim's exit between Sonic Nurse and Rather Ripped changed the band's dynamic a lot and it shows. I think MS and SN is their best work since late 80s/early 90s heyday and the last two represent noticeable dips in quality, although both have their charms.

yeah, the claim that the last four albums are particular similar seeming is kind of ... you are not very good at listening to music. although a less absurdly self-rewarding claim than

Which is weird, because SY appreciation is such a nuanced thing. If you played a song from Dirty and song from A Thousand Leaves to some schmoe on the street, he/she wouldn't be able to differentiate them at all.

― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 22 May 2011 07:01 (Yesterday) Bookmark

i tried listening to this record when the thread was revived but after about three minutes of thurston moore's annoying bromides i went 'urgh this guy has always been an idiot and will always be an idiot'

and then i listened to jawbreaker

p.s. i like sonic youth

that live recording from terrastock in 2002, when they played the entirety of 'murray street' in order, totally smokes--i was lucky enough to be there (toby and ned were there too, and maybe brian? i forget.)

Yeah that gig was awesome, definitely my favourite Sonic Youth gig (out of only half a dozen or so, admittedly). Sadly I seem to have lost the mp3s sometime in the last decade, though.

Murray St still my favourite Sonic Youth album, for what it's worth - The Empty Page and Rain on Tin probably the key tracks for me, although I don't think I've heard it in a couple of years.

and then i listened to jawbreaker

who's not very good at listening to music?

oh i see what you did there, that was clever

that live recording from terrastock in 2002, when they played the entirety of 'murray street' in order, totally smokes--i was lucky enough to be there (toby and ned were there too, and maybe brian? i forget.)

Brian wasn't there for that one but Mike Daddino and Elvis Telecom were!

I think most of MS could arguably be described as songs from EJST&NS stretched out A Thousand Leaves-style

as much as i like EJST&NS, i would have welcomed the stretching out at the time

hilariously, RR's"do you believe in rapture -- one of the few numbers that ever caught me on that album -- was the 1st song i heard yesterday, walking into a coffee shop.

which one is the terrastock performance? in boston?

yep, Terrastock 5 in Boston. I was there too and they were on fire (as were most bands iirc), smaller venues really help them bring it.

cool, haven't heard that one. now is probably a good time to remind people of this: http://www.freewebs.com/sonikyouth

here's a link to the terrastock show

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=I83FY0A0

had the same reaction about some dude saying the same thing some time ago tbh

― excitebikable boy (Drugs A. Money), Sunday, May 22, 2011 5:44 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

but some dude's always been a nineties rock fan.

― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, May 22, 2011 5:50 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

not always! '90 and early '91 i was still pretty focused on homework and recess.

recess is very punk

Thanks for the Terrastock boot!

This grew into one of my favourite Sonic Youth albums, probably my favourite post-DN. The production is gorgeous. I think it offers much that Nurse doesn't: the extended interplay on "Rain on Tin", the sprawling and weirdly pretty noise on "Karen Revisited" with the ingenious splice, Borbetomagus's intense squealing.

from JD's Quietus interview with TM

"He is in ebullient mood (hopefully suggesting that things are now happier for him)"

whats that referring to???

http://blogs.westword.com/backbeat/thurstonmooreworkshop1.jpg

Moore seemed impressed with what we did and what we churned out over the course of the four days, but not enough to bring him back. "I probably won't do it again," he said. "Naropa is the only place I've ever accepted an invitation, because they asked me as a writer, not a historian or a musician."

this is the best sy record by miles and miles

It's closer for me. Either Evol, Sister, Sonic Nurse or Murray Street.

Just realised that, with the exception of NYCG&F, their output in the 2000's was of a really high level.

spazzmatazz OTM

Full show from this tour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0l0EAtUMHs

Evol 4 lyfe

although theres zero chance of my fave not being a mid to late 80s album (and almost equally unlikely to be a 00s effort)

as always:

'Bad Moon Rising' is the best Sonic Youth album!

Murray Street is really good though

SY circa 1985/86 was an amazing period in general.

Sonic Youth goes pop shocker!
weird first post! this album doesn't strike me as a big pop move...

melodies of 'the empty page' and 'disconnection notice' felt more accessible than they had been for a while, at least as openers. production-wise it sounds like a classic rock record, something i don't think is true for the previous two albums. like if they weren't necessarily any less 'out' it felt like a re-focus at least.

yeah definitely more classic rock. i guess it was 2002, who can remember what "going pop" meant back in those days.

It's weird: I think of this album as being beautifully produced. Yet the songs were much more intense live than on record; I have to think that the way the album was produced was what made the difference. The dynamics were lost in "Rain on Tin" and "Karen Revisited", especially. Plus, I feel like they played with the tempo of the former more when they played it live.

I can't speak for Geeta obv but I think part of why this might have seemed like a 'pop move' in 2002 had to do with what the band had been doing for the past 6 years or so, not just on NYC G&F but on the SYR EPs, especially Goodbye 20th Century, and assorted indie-label collaborative projects (see: S/D: Post-1995 Sonic Youth indie-label artwank projects ). It really seemed at times like they had aspirations to be some sort of improvisational new music ensemble, especially with Jim O'Rourke joining the band as a full-time member. It was a surprise to hear them come out with a comparatively straightforward rock album. It was certainly a long way from Britney, though, and, in retrospect, it seems less pop even compared to Rather Ripped.

This album owns, but there are only a couple of songs I would call straightforward. Probably just the first two. After that is v jammy and some pretty noise songs. I guess plastic sun is p straightforward too.

i don't think this album is as distinct from nyc ghosts and flowers as the official narrative implies

nyc ghosts a great album btw

and then i listened to jawbreaker

thomp otm

I don't know if it's poppy so much as its the most pastoral sounding SY record with some alluring melodies on it. This ties with "Sister" for my fave SY album.

I like nyc ghosts a lot too.

Yeah I listened to it this week and feel like the first half is sonic youth goes folk rock.

Yeah, that's fair, m bison. The ending of "Rain on Tin" actually reminds me a bit of Steve Reich.

The new TM album sometimes recalls this album for me btw.

http://youtu.be/10K074bs5hk

this and wildflower soul loom in rain on tin

i always think of nyc ghosts & flowers as "minor key" brooding murray street as "major key" blissed out but yeah it's not so cut n dry

how many cool ideas are in “disconnection notice” and “rain in tin”

this album offers infinite treasures

"rain on tin" is my favorite sy song. less than a minute of thurston singing followed by eight minutes of glorious guitar ballet

Per this tweet:

Irvine 1990 and LA 1998 - two new shows added to our live archive at https://t.co/EymEDTHn2U

— Sonic Youth (@thesonicyouth) January 16, 2019

That would be the legendary Irvine “Behind the Orange Curtain” show excerpted on the _Dirty Boots_ EP. “What do you do when your mom is a skinhead...you write a song about her.”

nice, always wanted to hear that full show.
i was at the 1998 show. thought it was a little boring, to be honest, but I was only a teenager then ...

Thanks for this - will check the Irvine later today.

This has my favorite production of any SY album; it was actually the first one of theirs I ever bought, and was disappointed later that more of their stuff didn't have such a spacious, crystalline sound. Even their most similar albums don't come close to the feel of the sound of this record IMO. I know a lot of it has to do with the pared-down gear after it got stolen. This is an excellent winter album, too--it sounds like sparkling lights, ice, and fleeting warmth.

I'd say A Thousand Leaves approximates this sound ("Hoarfrost).

It comes close enough--in fact, "Hoarfrost" might be my favorite song by them, period.

yeah A Thousand Leaves is my defacto second favorite SY record just because it has roughly the same sound as Murray Street, but obviously longer & more extravagant (sooooo much phaser!). Rather Ripped is in the top 5, Washing Machine too. Not a big fan of the 80s records.

my favorites are murray street and goo forever i think. i have struggled to get into daydream nation for most of my life lol, i just assume the problem is me at this point

Daydream Nation has some wack ass production, it sounds like there was a mastering error or something, it's paper-thin. Goo rules.

evol and murray st are the only two i really, really like

sister was a real disappointment to me at the time, evol pointed to so many ineffable places and they decided to pursue the most boring one

have not given 1000 leaves its due, will check

Surprised no one’s mentioning Sonic Nurse, which felt like a solid continuation of the Murray St. sound. That’s where I fell off the ship but that was mainly due to new musical interests.

Sonic Nurse is top three SY imo. My favorite album of 2004.

They took the tautness they'd rediscovered and re-enlivened with heir ATL and NYC Ghosts & Flowers material and created some of their best material.

sonic nurse is my third favorite, probably for "paper cup exit" alone

and "I Love You Golden Blue"

Oh yeah sonic nurse - I like that one too, pairs nicely with Murray st

Yeah, Murray Street + Sonic Nurse was the peak for me. "Peace Attack" is so gorgeous

this 1000 Leaves-era live gig really is a fantastic recording.

"Rain on Tin" is the best.

Yeah, Murray Street + Sonic Nurse was the peak for me. "Peace Attack" is so gorgeous

― J. Sam, Thursday, 17 January 2019 19:47 (four years ago) link

this 100%

classic

True

still sounds so good — though I might listen to the live stuff from this era more often. the show on their bandcamp is sweeeeeet: https://sonicyouth.bandcamp.com/album/live-at-cabaret-metro-chicago-il-2002

this is also worth checking out — thurston, jim and lee doing murray street tunes unplugged on the radio. https://archive.org/details/SY_2002-08-13_radio

listening to "rain on tin" right now — seems like a new band could base their entire sound off of this vibe. is anyone doing it???

Dear friends I’m advised by doctors to cancel my upcoming SONIC LIFE book tour in the USA.I’ve been dealing with a health condition and this year it’s become debilitating.I’ve been reassured refunds will be issued to every ticket holder.
Sending peace & love-Thurston pic.twitter.com/3HaoJm8mrd

— Thurston Moore (@nowjazznow) October 10, 2023

Yeah I just saw that, damn. I hope he's okay.

Same.

I'm not sure if this is more telling of the recent activity levels of the ILM side of things, the focus understandably being elsewhere these days, or just how far Thurston's stock has fallen since the SY split but it's hard to imagine any time 7 or 8 years ago where this would be met with three whole posts. He seems like an asshole and certainly handled his personal affairs pretty terribly afaict, but still sad to see him knocked down by any sort of debilitating disease and I hope he bounces back.

Not a Sonic Youth fan but I've never got the animosity towards this guy. People have affairs, people leave their spouses. It happens and it's not something to be condemned.

I never cared either.

Yeah, I thought the reaction was weird and over the top in some corners. I mean, undoubtedly some it was tied into projections people put onto Thurston and Kim as the ultimate "cool couple" or whatever, but it really felt odd to see how much vitriol he received for a fairly common, if unfortunate, relationship dissolution. It's not like the guy was Ryan Adams or someone deserving of pariah status.

Crazy that Thurston Moore can collect social security now.

Because in this stage of the internet and social media it’s in style to act like public figures aren’t human and deserve to be judged (and exiled if necessary) for their choices and human mistakes. Everyone is desperate to convince themselves that they’re morally superior and you’d think that most people you know have never made wrong choice in their entire lifespan (many probably believe they haven’t).

Accidentally seeing Sonic Youth when I was 12 (they were the opener) is still possibly the single most life changing experience in my entire musical history and certainly helped to set me on the path that I ended up on today. It’s hard to fathom that bands like Sonic Youth are now old enough to have serious health problems, but I guess that’s how the world goes for everyone that manages to stick around long enough.

I suppose he won't be doing any joint memoir readings with Geddy Lee at this point.

I feel like some people hold it against him because they theorise the band could still be together if he hadn't. Which is as meaningless as "what if PF *hadn't* kicked Syd out* - magicking personal troubles out of thin air through one change.

Yeah, surely part of it as well. While of course I would have been happy to have more SY in my life, I'm certain the band managing to push forward unenthusiastically and half-heartedly through personal issues would have been less rewarding than that burst of creativity that followed the split - Chelsea Light Moving, Body/Head, Lee Ranaldo's jammy stretch of records, Thurston's expansive solo work, etc etc

I'm delighted they ended after a run of first-rate albums.

Yes, a much more succinct way to put it.

i've been going through the sonic youth live bootleg archive year by year for the past few months (https://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/tagged/sonicsummer) and it really is astounding how good they were for so long. There really isn't any "bad" era.

Hope Thurston gets well soon! Saw him out here in Boulder over the summer and he seemed to be in great spirits. Book seems like it'll be a good read.

Yeah I've very much been enjoying that series Tyler, some gems I hadn't heard before!

Not a Sonic Youth fan but I've never got the animosity towards this guy. People have affairs, people leave their spouses. It happens and it's not something to be condemned.

― lord of the rongs (anagram), Wednesday, 11 October 2023 14:09 (four hours ago) link

I went to college in Western MA during the 00s, so I would be at a lot of local shows where it was fairly common to see some combination of Thurston/Kim/Mascis in attendance, or even performing for that matter. There was one Thurston show where he was doing a warm-up show before going out to tour Psychic Hearts in Northampton that was a blast and he was in good spirits. IIRC the encore was TM b-side "Teenage Buddhist Daydream" played three times in a row.

Anyway, while I avoided them out of respect for their privacy, it seemed like if you lived around the area long enough, you'd have your own Thurston/Kim/Mascis story to tell. And for the most parts, the stories I'd hear of Thurston/Kim only reinforced the notion that it was best to avoid them.

All of this is to say, when his affair/band dissolving/etc. came to light, I was completely unsurprised.

fuck I'm getting old

get well Thurston

Yeah I've very much been enjoying that series Tyler, some gems I hadn't heard before!

judging from the download stats, readers are losing steam as we get into the 2000s (and fair enough, haha), but I'm really thinking that 1998-2004 is maybe their peak as a live band.

I remain enamored of this record's spacious, generous, clean, warm sound. It's probably the SY album I'm most inclined to revisit for that reason. Rain on Tin sounds like icicles melting in the sun.

cosigned

but I'm really thinking that 1998-2004 is maybe their peak as a live band

I'm inclined to agree, but this is also the exact era during which I saw all of my SY Live shows.

I've know I've mentioned this before but the first show I saw them play after NY Ghosts & Flowers came out and what was essentially one of the first O'Rourke-era shows (actually turns out it was his first "official" gig http://www.sonicyouth.com/mustang/cc/060900.html) and also after all their gear was was stolen they were so monumentally great and better then I had seen them since like 1992

I've said it before and I'll say it again, while I absolutely appreciate the wealth of live shows they've put up on bandcamp, this band could absolutely benefit from an ongoing archival physical release of live shows, ala Dick's Picks or something, with photos and liner notes. Maybe the Brooklyn show could be a start.

that brooklyn show is so good.

I used to love the Sonic Death live CDs Austin and Venlo... I wish they'd do more of those but... you know, CDs. Am I crazy, or is vinyl a dumb format for full live shows?

Nah, I think it’s dumb too, for the most part. I’m sure it works for some artists, but I really don’t like the breaking up of the flow in most cases. Like the vinyl fetishization craze has reached jamband land where Phish and the Grateful Dead are literally breaking up 40+ minute jams to slap them on vinyl. I’m the case of
Phish they have an entire series of vinyl releases that are literally one slab with half of the same jam on each side. Quality judgments about that sort of music aside, the last thing I’d want to do is hafta flip a vinyl right in the middle of a show that is designed to flow with an intentionality to the setlist. But clearly, given sales figures, I’m in a minority on that count.

But yeah, I’m all in on ongoing CD archival live shows from these guys. Instant pre-order when one gets announced, just like the Can and Les Rallizes Dénudés archival live stuff.

You’re not crazy!

Not to pry, but does anyone know what the health condition is?

I absolutely cannot abide split tracks over vinyl sides, I will buy CD or digital instead

Not a Sonic Youth fan but I've never got the animosity towards this guy. People have affairs, people leave their spouses. It happens and it's not something to be condemned.

― lord of the rongs (anagram), Wednesday, October 11, 2023 10:09 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

I've been cheated on via a long term affair and and am still processing a lot of trauma from it. It's very hard for me, and I'm sure for others, to just casually accept stuff like this when you read about it happening to other people. Not saying that's the case for everyone who was up in arms about this, I know the internet outrage machine loves to whir into gear, but just saying there is another, very painful and personal, view that some might take when reading about affairs.

For fucks sake

Not to pry, but does anyone know what the health condition is?

I haven't seen anything specific, seems likes its being left purposefully vague at the moment. What's interesting is that he seems to have only canceled his US book tour, seems like the UK stops might still be on? Maybe something that travelling far would make worse.

Read somewhere it’s a heart condition, so yes, I can imagine overseas travel would not be wise. Wonder if playing at volume might also be out of the question for the foreseeable. GWS TM.

Sometimes heart issues can keep you from flying on airplanes (or even go over altitudes > 1500m). It's all circumstantial until if or when we hear something more official. Also fwiw, my only surprise on the dissolution of the band (as it transpired) was that it didn't happen earlier.

Thread revival reminded me of a great SY show at Terrastock 5 in Boston where they played Murray Street in full. I went looking for it on slsk, and ran across a great six CD bootleg set called The Jim Years_ Live 2000-2005. Here's the details and the track listing:

Sonic Youth
The Jim Years: Live 2000-2005

This is a personal compilation made from fan-circulated recordings from lossless SBD, FM and AUD sources. There is no overlap with the official Sonic Youth Archive releases on nugs.net or bandcamp. I chose from some of my favorite performances across the time period that Jim O'Rourke was a member. Five and a half hours with (almost) no repeats!

Mastering was undertaken to provide continuity. While I wasn't necessarily trying to make it all sound like one big fake show, the intention was that there be no bad edits, abrupt cuts, cut-off notes or stage comments, wild volume jumps, repeated banter (who knows how many times Thurston said "hot and nasty" onstage in 2002? I have some idea) or songs being introduced that you aren't about to hear. Other than that, I didn't try to mess with the sound of the original recordings to any great extent.

There were a few instances where I chose a more interesting performance over a better-sounding one. I highlighted interesting moments of improv wherever I could. Much love and respect to all the tapers who made such great recordings in this era. Sound quality is broadly excellent, with maybe 1 or 2 moments of suboptimal quality.

First assembled in 2017, and circulated privately, now revised (twice) in 2020, so call this v3.0. Included in a separate text file is lineage data for every source used. All files are fully tagged with source data in the "comment" field.

Presented as five "discs" running between 60-80 minutes each

01 Tom Violence - 2002-08-15 Koolhaus, Toronto
02 Drunken Butterfly - 2002-08-15 Koolhaus, Toronto
03 Eric's Trip - 2002-08-15 Koolhaus, Toronto
04 Plastic Sun - 2002-08-15 Koolhaus, Toronto
05 Kissability - 2002-08-15 Koolhaus, Toronto
06 The Empty Page - 2002-08-15 Koolhaus, Toronto
07 Karenology - 2002-08-15 Koolhaus, Toronto
08 Shadow Of A Doubt - 2002-08-15 Koolhaus, Toronto
09 Radical Adults Lick Godhead Style - 2002-08-15 Koolhaus, Toronto
10 Cotton Crown - 2002-08-15 Koolhaus, Toronto
11 Bull in the Heather - 2002-08-03 Tippitina's, New Orleans
12 Candle - 2002-08-27 Fillmore, San Francisco
13 Rain on Tin - 2002-08-27 Fillmore, San Francisco
14 Skip Tracer - 2002-08-03 Tippitina's, New Orleans
15 Sympathy for the Strawberry - 2002-08-03 Tippitina's, New Orleans

01 Improv > Four6 - 2001-06-14 Montjuich 2Sonar Festival, Barcelona
02 1234 - 2003-02-22 Drum Logos, Fukuoka JP
03 She Is Not Alone - 2003-06-27 Central Park Summerstage
04 Making the Nature Scene - 2002-08-27 Fillmore, San Francisco
05 Silver Rocket - 2002-08-27 Fillmore, San Francisco
06 Free City Rhymes - 2000-06-11 Phoenix Center Ampitheatre, Pontiac
07 Nevermind (What Was It Anyway) - 2000-06-11 Phoenix Center Ampitheatre, Pontiac
08 Sunday - 2000-06-11 Phoenix Center Ampitheatre, Pontiac
09 NYC Ghosts & Flowers - 2000-06-11 Phoenix Center Ampitheatre, Pontiac
10 Hoarfrost - 2001-04-22 Syracuse University
11 Lightnin' - 2000-06-23 Tabernacle, Atlanta
12 I Wanna Be Yr Dog - 2000-06-11 Phoenix Center Ampitheatre, Pontiac
13 Kill Yr. Idols - 2003-02-22 Drum Logos, Fukuoka JP

01 I Love You Golden Blue - 2004-07-15 Crystal Ballroom, Portland
02 Total Trash - 2003-06-20 Newport Music Hall, Columbus OH
03 (I Got A) Catholic Block - 2003-06-20 Newport Music Hall, Columbus OH
04 Peace Attack - 2003-06-28 Penn's Landing, Philadelphia
05 Mariah Carey & The Arthur Doyle Handcream - 2004-07-18, Glass House, Pomona
06 Paper Cup - 2004-07-15 Crystal Ballroom, Portland
07 Schizophrenia - 2004-07-18, Glass House, Pomona
08 Dripping Dream - 2003-11-08 ATP, Queen Mary, Long Beach
09 100% - 2004-08-02 Majestic Theater, Detroit
10 Brother James - 2004-07-30 The Rave, Milwaukee
11 Mote - 2004-08-14 Avalon, Boston
12 White Kross - 2004-07-29 Vic Theatre, Chicago
13 Death Valley '69 - 2000-06-20 9:30 Club, DC

01 Teenage Riot - 2004-08-30 Paradiso, Amsterdam
02 New Hampshire - 2004-08-30 Paradiso, Amsterdam
03 Burning Spear - 2004-08-14 Avalon, Boston
04 Disconnection Notice - 2004-08-14 Avalon, Boston
05 Sugar Kane - 2004-08-04 Metropolis, Montréal
06 Dude Ranch Nurse - 2004-08-14 Avalon, Boston
07 Kool Thing - 2004-08-02 Majestic Theater, Detroit
08 Inhuman - 2004-08-02 Majestic Theater, Detroit

01 Sleepin' Around - 2005-08-16 NASA Reykjavic, Iceland
02 Rain On Tin - 2004-10-23 Bridge School Benefit, Mtn View CA
03 Stones - 2004-08-30 Paradiso, Amsterdam
04 Pattern Recognition - 2004-08-30 Paradiso, Amsterdam
05 Unmade Bed - 2004-08-30 Paradiso, Amsterdam
06 Pacific Coast Highway - 2004-08-30 Paradiso, Amsterdam
07 Expressway To Yr Skull - 2004-08-30 Paradiso, Amsterdam
08 Isolation - 2005-10-27 Cité de la Musique, Paris

track notes:

"Sleepin' Around" 2005-08-16: this is the only occasion I know of where SY debuted post-Nurse material with Jim still in the band, and is thus included in spite of fairly poor sound quality.

"Rain on Tin" 2004-10-23: I allowed myself a song repeat for this unique and bracing acoustic version.

I easily found it on slsk, don't know of any other sources.

Also here: https://archive.org/details/sonic-youth-jim-years-live

Also too: https://archive.org/details/SY_Death

Death to Our Friends, a 7xCD compilation covering the entirety of Sonic Youth's career, assembled thanks to some passionate fans from the SYG forum. Six discs are dedicated to chronological order and specific eras, and the last captures leftovers and oddities.

Track listing (all tracks in lossless unless *marked otherwise):
Disc 1: 1981 - 1985
1 The Good and the Bad [New York rehearsals, 7-xx-1981]07:162 Where the Red Fern Grows [New York rehearsals, 7-xx-1981]05:543 The Burning Spear [New York rehearsals, 7-xx-1981]03:284 (She's in a) Bad Mood [Carrboro, 11-14-1982]06:395 Confusion is Next [Carrboro, 11-14-1982]03:116 Shaking Hell [Dearborn, 12-12-1982]04:307 The World Looks Red [Venlo, 11-27-1983]04:188 Halloween [Amsterdam, 3-31-1985]06:359 Death Valley '69 [Amsterdam, 3-31-1985]06:2510 Brave Men Run (In My Family) [Amsterdam, 3-31-1985]04:1211 I Love Her All the Time [Amsterdam, 3-31-1985]07:2012 Brother James [VPRO-FM, 4-01-1985]03:4013 Flower [VPRO-FM, 4-01-1985]04:1814 Kill Yr Idols [VPRO-FM, 4-01-1985]02:3915 Satan is Boring [Amsterdam, 3-31-1985]09:2516 Expressway to Yr Skull [demo from 1985 broadcast on John Peel, 5-18-1986]05:1517 White Kross [Washington, 7-25-1986]02:4618 Shadow of a Doubt [Washington, 7-25-1986]04:1119 Starpower [Washington, 7-25-1986]03:1020 Death to Our Friends [Washington, 7-25-1986]02:4121 Green Light [Washington, 7-25-1986]02:5922 Beauty Lies in the Eye [VPRO-FM, 6-10-1987]02:1823 Kotton Krown [VPRO-FM, 6-10-1987]04:3224 Stereo Sanctity [VPRO-FM, 6-10-1987]04:2725 Schizophrenia [Chapel Hill, 9-15-1987]04:2226 Tom Violence [Chapel Hill, 9-15-1987]03:2227 Tuff Gnarl [Chapel Hill, 9-15-1987]02:5628 The Sprawl [Washington, 12-11-1988]06:1329 'Cross the Breeze [Washington, 12-11-1988]06:2830 Ruben's Beard [BBC Session, 3-12-1989]02:3931 Major Label Chicken Feed [BBC Session, 3-12-1989]02:5132 Hey Joni [Washington, 12-11-1988]04:0433 Kissability [Washington, 12-11-1988]03:3034 The Wonder [Vienna, 3-29-1989]05:4435 Hyperstation [Vienna, 3-29-1989]06:4136 Eliminator Jr. [New York, 12-13-1988]06:2637 Teenage Riot [Bremen, 8-27-1991]04:5738 The Burning Spear [BBC Session, 7-20-1992]02:3039 Kill Yr Idols [Irvine, 11-03-1990]02:4840 Silver Rocket [Irvine, 11-03-1990]05:0041 Genetic [Binghimton, 10-17-1992]03:5642 Dirty Boots [Bremen, 8-27-1992]05:1243 Youth Against Fascism [BBC Session, 7-20-1992]03:2744 100% / Kool Thing [Melbourne, 1-24-1993]07:4045 The World Looks Red [Berlin, 9-16-1990]04:4846 Mote [Bremen, 8-27-1991]04:1347 Candle [Lisbon, 7-14-1993]04:5048 Stereo Sanctity [Lisbon, 7-14-1993]03:5749 Sugar Kane [Rennes, 12-04-1992]07:2450 Purr [BBC Session, 7-20-1992]04:5451 Theresa's Sound-World [London, 12-14,1992]05:5652 Crème Brûlée [BBC Session, 7-20-1992]02:1653 Expressway to Yr Skull [Bremen, 8-27-1991]09:5354 Stil [Sessions at West 54th, 6-12-1997]08:3655 Bull in the Heather [Tibetan Freedom Concert, 6-16-1996]03:3756 Starfield Road [Tilburg, 3-18-1996]02:3857 Washing Machine [Tilburg, 3-18-1996]08:1958 Interview [MTV Studios, 4-15-1996]03:0159 Junkie's Promise [MTV Studios, 4-15-1996]04:0460 Saucer-Like [MTV Studios, 4-15-1996]04:1861 Becuz [MTV Studios, 4-15-1996]04:2262 Self-Obsessed and Sexxee [Jon Stewart Show, 9-16-1994]05:4663 Hits of Sunshine (for Allen Ginsberg) [Sessions at West 54th, 6-12-1997]07:5064 Shadow of a Doubt [Los Angeles, 5-29-1998]03:2165 Karen Koltrane [Los Angeles, 5-29-1998]06:5466 Blonde Redhead [Lisbon, 2-19-1999]03:2967 Skip Tracer [Tilburg, 3-18-1996]03:3568 The Diamond Sea [Sydney, 12-31-1995]12:2469 Kotton Krown [Toronto, 8-15-2002]05:2870 Kissability [Toronto, 8-15-2002]03:4871 The Empty Page [Last Call, 9-26-2002]04:2572 Pattern Recognition / Unmade Bed [Saint-Brieuc, 6-03-2005]12:4273 100% [Last Call, 9-26-2002]03:4174 Eric's Trip [Toronto, 8-15-2002]04:0075 Rain on Tin [Seattle, 9-01-2002]08:2476 Radical Adults Lick Godhead Style [Toronto, 8-15-2002]04:3277 Stones [Boston, 8-14-2004]06:3278 I Love You Golden Blue [Boston, 8-14-2004]07:3679 She is Not Alone [Ghent, 6-10-2001]09:2780 Nevermind (What Was It Anyway?) [Carrboro, 8-05-2000]05:5281 Drunken Butterfly [Toronto, 8-15-2002]03:5982 Making the Nature Scene [Toronto, 8-15-2002]03:1783 Brave Men Run (In My Family) [Brooklyn, 8-12-2011]05:0784 Death Valley '69 [Brooklyn, 8-12-2011]05:5685 No Way [L'Album de la Semaine, 10-27-2009]03:5786 Sacred Trickster [L'Album de la Semaine, 10-27-2009]02:1387 Incinerate [From the Basement, 8-23-2007]05:1188 Hey Joni [From the Basement, 8-23-2007]03:4689 Leaky Lifeboat (for Gregory Corso) [L'Album de la Semaine, 10-27-2009]06:2990 What We Know [L'Album de la Semaine, 10-27-2009]03:5391 Shaking Hell [Portland, 7-01-2006]03:4492 Jams Run Free [From the Basement, 8-23-2007]03:4493 The Sprawl [From the Basement, 8-23-2007]09:0794 Poison Arrow [L'Album de la Semaine, 10-27-2009]03:3595 Starfield Road [São Paulo, 11-14-2011]03:0296 Flower [São Paulo, 11-14-2011]04:0097 Pink Steam [From the Basement, 8-23-2007]08:1898 Teenage Riot [São Paulo, 11-14-2011]11:3699 Schizophrenia [Melbourne, 1-24-1993]04:56100 Catholic Block [Chapel Hill, 9-15-1987]03:15101 Pacific Coast Highway [Chapel Hill, 9-15-1987]04:10102 Brother James [Bremen, 8-27-1991]03:00103 Shoot [Binghamton, 10-17-1992]06:32104 Anagrama [Sessions at West 54th, 6-17-1997]07:46105 Screaming Skull (Rap Damage Version) [Jet Set Rough Mix]02:44106 Swimsuit Issue [NYC, 7-04-1992]03:57107 Karenology [Toronto, 8-15-2002]09:09108 White Kross [Bremen, 8-27-1991]03:19109 Unwind [New York, 10-20-1995]05:41110 Corporate Ghost [BBC Session, 3-20-1989]04:53111 Total Trash [Stratford-upon-Avon, 7-16-1993]07:44112 Skink [Tilburg, 3-18-1996]04:19113 Expressway to Yr Skull [Boston, 08-14-2004]12:07114 Starpower [Acoustic, Gossip Girl]02:59

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audio Sonic Youth - Death to Our Friends [1981-2011] [Bootleg]
by Sonic Youth

Topics sonic youth, noise rock, bootleg, flac
A 7xCD compilation covering the entirety of Sonic Youth's career, assembled thanks to some passionate fans from the SYG forum. Six discs are dedicated to chronological order and specific eras, and the last captures leftovers and oddities.

Track listing (all tracks in lossless unless *marked otherwise):
Disc 1: 1981 - 1985
The Good and the Bad [New York rehearsals, 7-xx-1981]
Where the Red Fern Grows [New York rehearsals, 7-xx-1981]
The Burning Spear [New York rehearsals, 7-xx-1981]
(She's in a) Bad Mood [Carrboro, 11-14-1982]
Confusion is Next [Carrboro, 11-14-1982]
Shaking Hell [Dearborn, 12-12-1982]
The World Looks Red [Vienna, 6-23-1983]
Halloween [Amsterdam, 3-31-1985]
Death Valley '69 [Amsterdam, 3-31-1985]
Brave Men Run (In My Family) [Amsterdam, 3-31-1985]
I Love Her All the Time [Amsterdam, 3-31-1985]
Brother James [VPRO-FM, 4-01-1985]
Flower [VPRO-FM, 4-01-1985]
Kill Yr Idols [VPRO-FM, 4-01-1985]
Satan is Boring [Amsterdam, 3-31-1985]
Disc 2: 1986 - 1989
Expressway to Yr Skull [demo from 1985 broadcast on John Peel, 5-18-1986]
White Kross [Washington, 7-25-1986]
Shadow of a Doubt [Washington, 7-25-1986]
Starpower [Washington, 7-25-1986]
Death to Our Friends [Washington, 7-25-1986]
Green Light [Washington, 7-25-1986]
Beauty Lies in the Eye [VPRO-FM, 6-10-1987]
Kotton Krown [VPRO-FM, 6-10-1987]
Stereo Sanctity [VPRO-FM, 6-10-1987]
Schizophrenia [Chapel Hill, 9-15-1987]
Tom Violence [Chapel Hill, 9-15-1987]
Tuff Gnarl [Chapel Hill, 9-15-1987]
The Sprawl [Washington, 12-11-1988]
'Cross the Breeze [Washington, 12-11-1988]
Ruben's Beard [BBC Session, 3-12-1989]
Major Label Chicken Feed [BBC Session, 3-12-1989]
Hey Joni [Washington, 12-11-1988]
Kissability [Washington, 12-11-1988]
The Wonder [Vienna, 3-29-1989]
Hyperstation [Vienna, 3-29-1989]
Eliminator Jr. [New York, 12-13-1988]
Disc 3: 1990 - 1993
Teenage Riot [Bremen, 8-27-1991]
The Burning Spear [Peel Session, 7-20-1992]
Kill Yr Idols [Irvine, 11-03-1990]
Silver Rocket [Irvine, 11-03-1990]
Genetic [Binghamton, 10-17-1992]
Dirty Boots [Bremen, 8-27-1991]
Youth Against Fascism [Peel Session, 7-20-1992]
100% > Kool Thing [Melbourne, 1-24-1993]
The World Looks Red [Berlin, 9-16-1990]
Mote [Bremen, 8-27-1991]
Candle [Lisbon, 7-14-1993]
Stereo Sanctity [Lisbon, 7-14-1993]
Sugar Kane [Rennes, 12-04-1992]
Purr [Peel Session, 7-20-1992]
Theresa's Sound-World [London, 12-14-1992]
Crème Brûlée [Peel Session, 7-20-1992]
Expressway to Yr Skull [Bremen, 8-27-1991]
Disc 4: 1994 - 1999
Stil [Sessions at West 54th, 6-12-1997]
Bull in the Heather [Tibetan Freedom Concert, 6-16-1996]
Starfield Road [Tilburg, 3-18-1996]
Washing Machine [Tilburg, 3-18-1996]
Interview [MTV Studios, 4-15-1996]
Junkie's Promise [MTV Studios, 4-15-1996]
Saucer-Like [MTV Studios, 4-15-1996]
Becuz [MTV Studios, 4-15-1996]
Self-Obsessed and Sexxee [Jon Stewart Show, 9-16-1994]
Hits of Sunshine (for Allen Ginsberg) [West 54th Street, 6-12-1997]
Shadow of a Doubt [Los Angeles, 5-29-1998]
Karen Koltrane [Los Angeles, 5-29-1998]
Blonde Redhead [Lisbon, 2-19-1999]
Skip Tracer [Tilburg, 3-18-1996]
The Diamond Sea [Sydney, 12-31-1995]
Disc 5: 2000 - 2005
Kotton Krown [Toronto, 8-15-2002]
Kissability [Toronto, 8-15-2002]
The Empty Page [Last Call, 9-26-2002]
Pattern Recognition > Unmade Bed [Saint-Brieuc, 6-03-2005]*
100% [Last Call, 9-26-2002]
Eric's Trip [Toronto, 8-15-2002]
Rain on Tin [Seattle, 9-01-2002]
Radical Adults Lick Godhead Style [Toronto, 8-15-2002]
Stones [Boston, 8-14-2004]
I Love You Golden Blue [Boston, 8-14-2004]
She is Not Alone [Ghent, 6-10-2001]
Nevermind (What Was It Anyway?) [Conan O'Brien, 7-18-2000]
Drunken Butterfly [Toronto, 8-15-2002]
Making the Nature Scene [Toronto, 8-15-2002]
Disc 6: 2006 - 2011
Brave Men Run (In My Family) [Brooklyn, 8-12-2011]
Death Valley '69 [Brooklyn, 8-12-2011]
No Way [L'Album de la Semaine, 10-27-2009]
Sacred Trickster [L'Album de la Semaine, 10-27-2009]
Incinerate [From the Basement, 8-23-2007]*
Hey Joni [From the Basement, 8-23-2007]*
Leaky Lifeboat (for Gregory Corso) [L'Album de la Semaine, 10-27-2009]
What We Know [L'Album de la Semaine, 10-27-2009]
Shaking Hell [Portland, 7-01-2006]
Jams Run Free [From the Basement, 8-23-2007]*
The Sprawl [From the Basement, 8-23-2007]*
Poison Arrow [L'Album de la Semaine, 10-27-2009]
Starfield Road [São Paulo, 11-14-2011]*
Flower [São Paulo, 11-14-2011]*
Pink Steam [From the Basement, 8-23-2007]*
Teenage Riot [São Paulo, 11-14-2011]*
Disc 7: Outtakes and Oddities
Schizophrenia [Melbourne, 1-24-1993]
Catholic Block [Chapel Hill, 9-15-1987]
Pacific Coast Highway [Chapel Hill, 9-15-1987]
Brother James [Bremen, 8-27-1991]
Shoot [Binghamton, 10-17-1992]
Anagrama [Sessions at West 54th, 6-12-1997]
Screaming Skull (Rap Damage Version) [Jet Set Rough Mix]*
Swimsuit Issue [NYC, 7-04-1992]
Karenology [Toronto, 8-15-2002]
White Kross [Bremen, 8-27-1991]
Unwind [New York, 10-20-1995]
Corporate Ghost [BBC Session, 3-20-1989]
Total Trash [Stratford-upon-Avon, 7-16-1993]
Skink [Tilburg, 3-18-1996]
Expressway to Yr Skull [Boston, 8-14-2004]
Starpower [Acoustic, Gossip Girl]
EDIT: it seems likely that this isn't the original bootleg, and is instead a reassembled version using alternative sources of the tracks - this would explain the multitude of changes in volume, why I had to convert the mess it was originally in, and why the discs don't all fit on one CD. It should still be alright for you, though?

Formatting schmormatting.

Turns out Thurston's prognosis is 'very good' -- am I a bad person for thinking that someone made the original announcement intentionally vague to drum up some interest in the new book? Or am I just saying that because I ordered a copy when I otherwise probably would have hardly known about it or cared to see if I had any interest in reading it?

as thurston's atrial fib buddy (© ilxor Jordan s/t (Jordan)) i can attest that the prognosis can be very good and the meds of the moment (viz beta blockers) can still leave you quite physically fatigued, esp in the evneing, esp when the dosage is newly upped (as it might be for entirely non-alarming reasons) -- i've never embarked on a major european tour myself for any reason but i have sometimes had to pause for a while on the way back from e.g. M&S, and TM is actually two years older than me

micro-details here!: the thread of ATRIAL FIBBING

thanks for the Jim Years link! re: topic, I haven't listened to Murray Street enough so I'm going back in!

yeah thanks for posting about that; I'm not really a 'collect live shows' person in general and for lots of bands I just don't care all that much about live recordings but given how much I liked that Brooklyn final show and how much I'm liking this collection Sonic Youth may be one of the exceptions for me.

deep in a hopeless SY hole for the past... two weeks now with no sign of abatement, so this is the perfect time for that link to cross my path. thanks.

jim legit bridging gastr del sol (and others) and late peak sonic youth debunks this pitchfork bullshit after all, i have to think

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/7342-nyc-ghosts-flowers/

Read book one (about 20%) of the new memoir. I’m in a weird place as a fan because Sonic Youth blew open the doors for me as a youth, the same way Patti Smith or whatever did for Thurston, but I have very little interest in much of their post-80s career (I do like A Thousand Leaves and NYC Ghosts and Flowers though) and would normally care less about any Sonic Youth trivia (never even once considered reading Kim’s book) until the PR that got drummed up around TM’s health scare made it sound like it was gonna be more interesting than I’d thought, skipping some of the interpersonal drama and focusing on the music and scene.

It’s an extremely quick read, but despite all of his romanticism of the more literary side of the 70s NYC scene and his glorification of the Beats and all that, Thurston is not a good writer. The descriptive prose lacks any hint of the effortless poetry of his idols whatsoever. Sonic Youth’s lyrics pretty much all fell on a scale of passable to outright embarrassing, so I wasn’t totally shocked there.

I didn’t realize that early pre-no wave punk played as much of a role in his musical foundation as it did, so that was somewhat enlightening, but otherwise the story of coming of age relating to the Velvets, the Stooges, MC5, Television (among countless other usual suspects) while your peers are having their minds blown by radio rock has been told a million times by now and it’s not any fresher told from Moore’s perspective. I was hoping for a little more about him, how it felt to be there, what made him tick, and all that, and a little less of a running list of every concert he ever attended (and somehow remembers with mindblowing accuracy nearly 50 years later).

Still not up to the formation of SY yet, so will see how the rest goes.

Haven't cracked it yet, but seems like a lot of people are disappointed that he doesn't spend a lot of time on the affair and divorce. Which I kinda get, but at the same time I didn't want to read 50 pages of his self-justifications about it.

Eh, that I don’t care about. Apparently Kim’s book covers it and I mean that’s not a story that absolutely needs to be told to the public regardless. I’m obviously not there yet but apparently the last like 15% of the book covers the 90s and beyond, which does seem a bit quick (apparently his submission had to be pretty massively edited down, but not sure why they’d leave in a description of every time he saw the Ramones/Patti Smith/the Damned etc and reduce entire decades to nearly a postscript)

If only I could find a way to say “apparently” a few more times

I'm with you, I don't need to read his side of it at all, just surprised how many people apparently did (see Pitchfork's article about the book today). It does sound disappointing that he essentially stops with 2009 though, I think he's done some interesting work since SY worth reading more about.

Thurston is not a good writer. The descriptive prose lacks any hint of the effortless poetry of his idols whatsoever.

This has been my biggest takeaway from the excerpts I've seen. His prose is absolutely poisoned by rock journalist pseudo-poetics. He should have hired Byron Coley as a ghostwriter, at least we'd have gotten some unexpected adjectival choices.

I’ve read this book. His writing is a bit better than I expected, and it’s fine. (But maybe I haven’t read as many books about the years and scenes he’s focusing on as others, and as such a not as disappointed.)

Am not as disappointed

otherwise the story of coming of age relating to the Velvets, the Stooges, MC5, Television (among countless other usual suspects) while your peers are having their minds blown by radio rock has been told a million times by now and it’s not any fresher told from Moore’s perspective

And he's shared those particular stories a ton of times in interviews and other books already. Something he & Kim have in common is finely tuning anecdotes early on and then repeating them verbatim for decades.

Long conversation between Thurston and Marc Masters on Marc’s Music Book podcast
https://themusicbookpodcast.buzzsprout.com/2120946/13813342-020-thurston-moore-on-thurston-moore

Thurston gets into the background of why the book is the way it is and deflects on what people were perhaps mistakenly expecting. Not much SY talk but plenty on discovering that the only library that has a complete run of the Village Voice is in Ft. Lauderdale.

see Pitchfork's article about the book today

Just read this… jeez, it sure takes him to task for “ignoring” details of the split.

Yeah, that pitchfork writer is not happy about TM deciding not to air his dirty laundry:

“If I got too much into that, that would be a critical focus, as it is with any memoir,” he recently told the New York Times. It’s hard to imagine that he’d think ignoring it would be any less grounds for critique.

Also, even if it may be ultimately self-serving, it's kind of hard to not acknowledge that saying he didn't want to profit off the personal pain of people in his lives is a decent recent not to go into it.

But in the end, his affair is pretty much the least interesting thing about his life and career and the last thing I want to read more about.

I’m looking forward to:

-Lee’s book (if he writes one)
-Steve’s book (if he writes one)
-A comprehensive unauthorized account of this band by a journalist

There are two unauthorised ones, by David Browne (can't recall if it is decent) and a really good one by our own Stevie called Psychic Confusion iirc, however, it was published a few years prior to their disbandment.

i have a copy of "Goodbye 20th Century" from some 10+ years back - can't remember if it was authorized or not. my memory of it seems that it covered a lot of what kim/thurston's books went into at this point, prior to the band breakup.

It's been a long time since I read the Browne one, but I recall thinking it was pretty good. My favorite book was Alec Foege's Confusion is Next, which is positively ancient at this point (coming out in 1994) but it was really key in how hard I fell for the band in '94-'95.

Ohhh I didn't know there was a third one

I’ve read at least two of those, and they’re pretty good.

But I’m thinking more something in-depth, post breakup, that does the thing of delving into every album and assorted minutiae.

To be fair, I have not read it since 1995, so my fond memories of it might be inextricably tied to my deep dive into SY's back catalog at the time so maybe rose colored glasses and all. Did just order a used copy to give it another go though.

I just started Jesse Rifkin's 'This Must Be The Place' which is the second book I've read about NY Music scene(s) named after a TH song, which so far has been really interesting, I'm hoping it'll arrive at SY and Chatham/Branca/Swans/The Kitchen/No Wave/Arthur Russell etc

The Browne book is quite good.

But in the end, his affair is pretty much the least interesting thing about his life and career and the last thing I want to read more about.

― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 26 October 2023 14:22 (three hours ago) link

OTM, even Kim talks about it as an almost embarrassingly boring cliche, if I recall correctly.

Honestly it feels like some of the reviewers wanting more "dirt" are unhappy they were denied something to get mad about, or maybe lost the ability to be able to write a more scathing review about he's a toxic narcissist or something.

Which he might be for all I know... I just know if I'm reading a book from any of the Sonic Youth folks I want to read about music, not necessarily about the details of romantic tribulations

sorry to end on an "It's all about the music MAN!!!!" note

Kim Gordon remains something of a mystery throughout your book. Someone ultimately unknowable to the reader.

I suppose so. I think I purposefully muted certain aspects of our relationship. I didn’t want to give it any more value than my relationship with the rest of the band. I wanted the book to be very band-centred. I didn’t want to talk about our romantic relationship. I didn’t want to get into the intricacies of our marriage…

https://www.mojo4music.com/articles/stories/sonic-youths-thurston-moore-interviewed/?fbclid=IwAR2CwvoOJeNMq5JBD7xn5XwoKjFYga1Op8oS4eXiPliYitHx-2E-rMWgisw

Curious what kind of treatment Jim gets (if at all)? Or Mark for that matter...

(meant O'Rourke but also Sclavunos I guess lol)

Audiobook for https://www.audiobooks.com/audiobook/666348/?refId=40886&detailsLocale=US&refId=77121&gclid=CjwKCAjwnOipBhBQEiwACyGLuiBEdMDg82aihtj0c4l3pnMpB6XUvPczV3ITkOJmbf3JDgEM9MKgyhoCLcUQAvD_BwE2.50, read by T

The David Browne book is definitely very good and IIRC totally authorized. Lee published an 80s tour diary at one point, I enjoyed it. It would be great if Steve wrote a book! Just from interviews he seems to have a fantastic memory for the SY days.

audiobook for $12.50 that should say, and say so less strangely