best song The-Dream Love/Hate

fast car

album of the decade i think

is this really necessary?

anyway "luv songs"

btw i'm starting a favorite song poll cuz i love this album and ilm is real boring today

― happy house of representatives (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:23 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

someone revived a swan lake thread

― happy house of representatives (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:23 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

ah okay

"fast car" was what i fell for first, then it was "luv songs" but i think my all-time fav is "playin in her hair" for the boxer line and CAN I GET A A? AAAAYYY

this is def a good poll, i'm going to have to wait a little while to think abt it

lets talk abt the boxer line tho

"Fast Car" is the token i rep for, fuck the rest more or less

aagh i don't know! 'ditch that...' is the one i jam the most but when i play the album i always skip it. in album context it's one of the 'fast car'/'nikki'/'she needs my love' triptych

i think the "she needs my love" verses are maybe the best verses on the album. "flossin' keys to your phantom and you know that she's my girl/ still you try too get at her but she push the brakes on that shit like skkrrrrrr!". and then the way the beat clangs around. also the lol rap verse.

I can't wait for his new album to come out so you guys can stop talking about this one.

no one wants to talk about the leaked trax! i've bumped the other tread like 15 times since songs started leaking

i've only heard the lil john + rockin that shit - is there other stuff??? pls talk abt it

So many songs on this could be my favourite, but "Purple Kisses" is often the one that hits me hardest, perhaps due to its position coming at the end of all the sex jams and being the most sumptuous of them all -it's like it defeats me completely. Like that moment in a massage where any remaining bunched up muscles you have just go totally slack, you're body saying "I give up, do to me what you will..."

so there's "my love" w/ mariah which is the next single which is really warm and sugary and has mariah wailing all over the place, naturally it's great

also there is "right side of my brain" which sounds like to me the-dream's version of "cry me a river"

i started to love "purple kisses" after i noticed the epic backing vocal on the hook that is mixed really low

voted purp kisses narrowly over luv songs

still *rollin my damn eyes* @ al in baltimore

I'm repeating myself but "Got your hair did - I'm about to mess that shit up!" is probably my favourite moment on the album, it seems very romantic/seductive to me.

i think my favourite moment might the hysteria of 'she needs my love's outro - "call 911, tell paramedics to bring her AIIIR, AIIIR, AIIIR" - it's like the-dream's behind a screen watching her lifeless body being stretchered away through the crowd, but he can't get through to the action and he's banging his fists on it in vain - impotent despite his power being the essence of the song.

I'm repeating myself but "Got your hair did - I'm about to mess that shit up!" is probably my favourite moment on the album, it seems very romantic/seductive to me.

― Tim F, Wednesday, February 11, 2009 4:53 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

the article on him in the last issue of Vibe quotes a line from the new record about messing up a girl's bangs. I can feel your excitement already.

lol

i think my favourite moment might the hysteria of 'she needs my love's outro - "call 911, tell paramedics to bring her AIIIR, AIIIR, AIIIR" - it's like the-dream's behind a screen watching her lifeless body being stretchered away through the crowd, but he can't get through to the action and he's banging his fists on it in vain - impotent despite his power being the essence of the song.

― lex pretend, Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:59 PM (3 minutes ago)

i'd agree with this, but i always hear another layer on the outside -- "i'm like the air, without me she'll die" reads to me very date rapey/emotionally abusive thing to believe. HE feels this amazing romantic tragic stuff but really he's making her, and himself, miserable with some controlling bullshit. she'll be fine dude!

i think something about the production suggests that the-dream's being shut out of what's happening. so i guess she'll be even more fine.

i'd agree with this, but i always hear another layer on the outside -- "i'm like the air, without me she'll die" reads to me very date rapey/emotionally abusive thing to believe. HE feels this amazing romantic tragic stuff but really he's making her, and himself, miserable with some controlling bullshit. she'll be fine dude!

Isn't it "She said I'm like the air, without me she'll die..."?

i think the "she needs my love" verses are maybe the best verses on the album. "flossin' keys to your phantom and you know that she's my girl/ still you try too get at her but she push the brakes on that shit like skkrrrrrr!". and then the way the beat clangs around. also the lol rap verse.

― happy house of representatives (J0rdan S.),

This is where I am at the moment. This song hasn't left my head in weeks. Also, is it just me or is this one of the most bizarre pop arrangements in a while? The part the bells and that vocal "oh-o-ah-ah" thing he does just blows me away.

"Livin' a Lie" cuts deepest, but "Fast Car" got me first.

"she needs my love" was initially one of my least favorite songs, i was kind of at odds w how metallic the beat was and i used to think the synths that rush in in the chorus were unpleasant but the beat during the verses is really undeniable

this is impossible but ima go "she needs my love" over "fast car". love that part at the end of "she needs my love" when his voice is super autotuned "ya better have do-octor on sta-a-andby-y"

gonna listen to this in the car on the way to tennis

"Livin' a Lie" is still the obvious winner here; it cuts deepest.

hmm..."she needs my love" over "fast car"? i can hear that. i really wish there was a single mix for "fast car". the fade into nikki is one of my favourite things about the album, but i like the song enough that sometimes i want ot listen to it on its own, and there's no sense of finality EVER. *sigh*

this album never clicked 4 me as much as crew here raved abt it but recently have gotten big into 'she needs my love' its srsly been stuck in my head 4 the past 2 days

also its weird 2 say never clicked 4 me and yet i do love songs 1-3 & livin a lie

"Ditch That"

Though I could have easily gone with "Falsetto," "Nikki," etc. Not sure "I can't tell nobody how we is! OOOOOH!" necessarily "cuts deepest."

Side, side, oh no inside, side, side oh no

RIHANNA BABY
DREAM BABY
What on this earth will we DO

hmm..."she needs my love" over "fast car"? i can hear that. i really wish there was a single mix for "fast car". the fade into nikki is one of my favourite things about the album, but i like the song enough that sometimes i want ot listen to it on its own, and there's no sense of finality EVER. *sigh*

― MTLiens (Alex in Montreal), Thursday, July 9, 2009 9:25 PM (Yesterday)

yeah i fuckin love right when nikki starts, it's like whoa shit just got real

"livin a lie" is such an afterthought for me cuz it's so far back on the album but when i play this through i always remember how good the song is - "nikki" was one of the songs that's awesomeness hit me very late, but it's one of the most dramatic things he's ever written esp when it kicks into "and she loves me back" *string pulses*

"she needs my love" has a dope beat and that pretty great rap but it's juuust on the second level imo, maybe not tho - i love the rush in of the chorus

"playin in her hair" is the best playful, club song on the album - you can see how "take u home 2 my mama" was borne out of it but of course "playin in her hair" is way better

also it birthed A-T-L-A-N-T-A-G-A IS WHERE IS STAY

eh there should be no comma splice b/w "playful club song"

she keeps those ch-ch-chewin on her asshole, i'm all up on her ass tho, runnin it like a cash drawer

those thongs** >:(

well "purple kisses" was def begat by j. holiday's "bed" but yeah you can def trace shit out from l/h to things on lvm and e red

What's the reason for this poll lasting seven months?

accident

Ah ok. I took to this album instantly by which I mean "Shawty Is da Sh*!" is one of the most deeply eccentric ballads (I guess you'd call it) I've ever heard. But I still can't get beyond being merely impressed with the second one. Even here, the album moves from intense love to intense like with "Playin' In Her Hair." And "Mama" is flat-out godawful.

Easily "Shawty Is da Sh*!" for me. His harmonies with himself sound like Thelonious Monk piano clusters and there's like, what, five different melodies in four minutes.

Still not sure how to position this album in relation to its Album of the Decade contender, Year of the Gentleman. Yet again, it boils down to that high points vs. consistency thing with the latter an easier overall listen but lacking something as epochal as "Shawty Is da Sh*!"

ah man idk, i feel almost completely opposite about the two albums - i think ne-yo's gets really mushy and samey at the end but has 3 of the strongest r&b singles of the past few years whereas dream's is the better, more consistent and enjoyable album

"Mama" is amazing!! That bit where the dying android whispers "I've been thinking of you/always thinking of you" totally slays me.

I feel like Love vs Money suffers slightly for the lack of a similarly mushy ballad.

the main reason why LvM isn't quite as good as L/H is that the production isn't as colorful

i think there's some truth in that yeah

"Livin' a Lie" is great but it doesn't really fit the mood of the album I think; I'm glad it and "Mama" come at the end.

The Rev otm about the production, he switches gears so many times on this album but it's so seamless.

I hum "Fast Car" at least three times a week.

i know i'm way way in the minority here but i definitely like the 2nd album more than this one. still waiting for one of these songs to grab me like "Fast Car" did on the first listen.

i way prefer LvM too, even without the "concept" a lot of its individual tracks feel like more compelling versions of L/H tracks - like 'luv songs' and 'falsetto' vs 'sweat it out' and 'put it down' isn't even a concept. then again i think i like the 1st half of LvM more than most (tho agree that the 2nd half is where the real O_O stuff is)

i think i voted 'nikki' anyway

'mama' is great sorry losers

i think ne-yo's gets really mushy and samey at the end but has 3 of the strongest r&b singles of the past few years

So wait. Which are the three?

man "fast car" through "purple kisses" are all such classics and for that stretch alone this might be better than the new one. the first two songs are great too but such outliers, can't really get with "ditch that"

i love ditch that, but after deliberating i think my answer is falsetto.

brilliant as it is, this is not better than love vs. money. the answer is still "nikki," btw.

And why exactly are they livin' a lie?

(almost) every song is this album is amazing, but how could it not be I Luv Your Girl? am i alone in this?

i voted "Shawty Is da Sh*!" but i don't know the whole album that well, TBH.

i know i'm way way in the minority here but i definitely like the 2nd album more than this one. still waiting for one of these songs to grab me like "Fast Car" did on the first listen.

― hop up out the shed, turn my scag on (some dude), Friday, July 10, 2009 9:03 AM (1 month ago)

think i'm with you now - "fast car" is grrreat but "purple kisses" is my favorite

man every time ppl say r&b reached its peak in 03 or whatever i wanna point out that this and New Amerykah came out in 08

and yes just to beat deej to it - this was officially released in december 2007 but it's a 2008 album to me

i voted for it in my album list for 08 ...

I think my 4 favorite albums of 08 were all r&b (those two + foreign exchange + solange) + people who say that are mostly dbags who don't normally follow r&b who started listening to it for a couple years because of some trendy popism thing so balls to them

Haven't heard the Foreign Exhange album, but I agree that L vs M, L/H, and the Solange album were three of the best of 2008.
For me it's a toss-up between "Shawty Is Da Sh*!" and "Nikki"

people who say that are mostly dbags who don't normally follow r&b who started listening to it for a couple years because of some trendy popism thing so balls to them

yeah the r&b "boom" - well, the boom in music crits listening to r&b - was really fuelled by appreciation of the production and the auteur status of timbaland and the neptunes. but a ton of people never really cared about r&b as a genre - even in 2001 i remember reviews of aaliyah basically saying "great singles, but ew ballads" - and for them, r&b judgment boiled down to "cool sounds: y/n?"

i mean, obviously their problem for being idiots! but unlike, say, radio pop, i don't feel that r&b ever really dropped off since 2003 or whenever.

Yeah any r&b "boom" that took place is completely crit-centric, which is basically to say, who gives a damn. As far as "ew ballads" goes, I completely feel free to disregard anyone's opinion if they want to speak on r&b but are averse to ballads.

xp Might as well take another chance to stump for the FE album. Super-intimate, with lots of duet vocals, subtle yet memorable songwriting, lyrics that kind of take a love-realism angle, some time-signature trickery, very precise and rich high-tech-sounding production. Sounds kind of like a cross between an Air and Aaliyah album, although it's mostly anchored around Phonte's baritone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCXNaV7CKig&feature=fvw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GplxJW8ez-w

I dunno, I think it's pretty easy to over-estimate the extent to which popular discourse reduces R&B to a kind of "cool sounds" producer fetishism exercise.

All of the people I know who typify that intense engagement with R&B circa 2002-2004 followed by rapid drop-off actually missed Timbaland mark one almost completely, their reference points are more like "Crazy In Love", the first JT album, "Work It", "1 Thing"... not "We Need A Resolution", "Bills Bills Bills", "Caught Out There", "Try Again" et. al.

I think what was going on during that period was that R&B as a genre and R&B as a pop crossover phenemenon and R&B as something written about by critics all coalesced into a basically unanimous chorus line regarding what the music should be, which if anything isn't cool sounds at all so much as hyper-sexualised modern funk - this is what unites the disparate approaches of The Neptunes, Rich Harrison and Timbaland circa 2002 (it's telling that for this particular crowd Under Construction is very much the Missy album).

I think that there's a very broad swathe of middle-class white urbanites for whom this was the perfect incarnation of R&B to wholeheartedly embrace: big catchy songs splashed all over the radio, sung by recognisable stars, while drawing on a respectable and (importantly) "authentic" canon of black soul/popular music (James Brown, Jackson 5/MJ, Sly, the right Prince), and joy-juiced with satisfyingly raunchy modern production. At all the house parties I went to in this era "Get Busy" and "Baby Boy" were sandwiched in between "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough" and "Sex Machine".

Yes, the whole critical engagement with Timbaland/The Neptunes etc. as auteurs fed into this, but ultimately the people who actually were writing about R&B for broadsheets are still writing about R&B for broadsheets, only now The-Dream is the auteur they write about. The trickle down didn't quite work out like that: all my friends and acquaintances in this category knew about The Neptunes (because of Pharrell and the unmistakeable sound of their tracks) but didn't really know who Timbaland was.

So what happened? Well, the successive sonic incarnations of R&B simply haven't appealed to that kind of audience in the same way: crunk was too harsh and aggro sounding ("Yeah" aside) and R&B's subsequent lurch towards the eighties (ice cream cake city in the clouds synth arrangements, general trebliness, the wrong Prince) and dance music (4X4 beats), while not disliked by this audience (they'll embrace crossovers like "The Way I Are") simply doesn't feed into their ideas about what R&B should be, so they have little interest in investing in it as a genre rather than as the occasional origin of massive pop hits they get into. But yeah, stuff like "Forever" seems to strike this crowd as cheesy in a way that "Rock Your Body" didn't.

What recent stuff does this audience love? "Single Ladies" and "Umbrella". No woah modern production there, but it helps that they're big singalong songs by recognisable crossover stars and using breakbeats.

Also it's worth pointing out that at the beginning of this decade a lot of the big R&B releases actually did tend to have fairly poor ballads, or at least the difference between the quality of the majority of the uptempo tracks and the quality of the majority of the ballads was marked - see The Writing's On The Wall and Fanmail and Survivor and Fear of Flying and Full Moon (though I adore the cheese-tastic "WOW" on that one). People who think these albums tend to fall down in the balladry department aren't necessarily blinkered.

Aaliyah was an exception to this rule, sure, but then in some ways it's an easy exception - all of the ballads on that album had high-tech production anyway, so it's not as if liking the ballads on it would have been a particularly brave move. Pink's first album is a better case I think: the three ballads on there are conservatively produced but all fabulous.

Nowadays I think it's an impossible distinction to draw, but I also think that the quality of R&B ballads generally went up at some point in the mid-00s.

I think Lex is mostly having a pop at Reynolds plus acolytes rather than the sort of audience you're talking about, Tim, but yeah I'd agree with your take on things.

I spent much of the night in the pub on Saturday attempting to wind Lex up by taking a variety of inflammatory critical positions that I don't really believe. But the one thing I do kinda agree with is that for all this talk about the 00s being the era of the super-producer, those producers have been lucky to come along in an era of widescreen technicolor big global brand POP STARS - way way more of them than in the 90s.

A number of commercially underwhelming Timba/Neptunes/Dream projects (Elektric Red being the most recent) show that cool noises alone don't get you very far without the right frontperson. I suppose that's why Beyonce ended up with the massive lengthy career and, say, Tweet didn't.

I think you're right.

I just don't think there are that many of those Reynolds plus acolytes at the end of the day (also Reynolds put me onto Mya's "It's All About Me" way back when, one of the most gorgeous glutinous R&B ballads ever!).

I should probably shift back my "ballads suddenly improving" development to, I dunno, maybe 2003. I think one thing that changed is that whereas before artists or their handlers seemed to want to balance risk-taking club tracks with more familiar/"safe" songwriting on the ballads, at some point artists started coming out with quite risky, oddball ballads... everything got a lot more talky and idiosyncratic. Look at "We Belong Together".

In this regard, arguably "Burn" was more important to the development of R&B this decade than "Yeah" was.

And certainly R Kelly was a massive influence on everything.

Ha ha everyone I can think of who is actually like Lex's complaint ended up being into dubstep, Erykah Badu and Jay Dilla, maybe that's why they aren't checking for Electrik Red etc.

everyone i know into electrik red is also into dubstep, erykah and j dilla - who are these people you're talking about??

if i'm having a pop at anyone it's pfork and co - and probably not mainstream pop audiences, but more the "tastemakers"/"gatekeepers". but "ew ballads" is a sadly widespread stance. "r&b ballads got better" - this sort of ignores the history of r&b pre-2000!

disagree that sean paul, justin timberlake et al were the peak of this in 2003 - i think of r&b's critical peak as missy's so addictive album rather than the consciously old-skool under construction (which is probably her most consistent album, for whatever that's worth). 2001, basically.

rich harrison was never a recognisable auteur name like timba and the neps...

"who are these people you're talking about??"

About five or six people (guys mostly) I know IRL, plus like half of dissensus.

Also I know I've got a stake here but, um, who writes about R&B albums a lot on pitchfork apart from me anyway? They simply didn't cover it at all during the 2000-2001 era, as far as I can recall.

" "r&b ballads got better" - this sort of ignores the history of r&b pre-2000!"

Yeah, I'm saying they were in a particularly bad patch circa 2000. Obv there have always been amazing R&B ballads since day dot.

"i think of r&b's critical peak as missy's so addictive album rather than the consciously old-skool under construction (which is probably her most consistent album, for whatever that's worth)."

If you're talking about reynolds alone, sure, (actually reynolds' interest in Missy peaked with Supa Dupa Fly) but as a widespread popular crit phenomenon then I don't think it crested until after that.

"rich harrison was never a recognisable auteur name like timba and the neps..."

Yeah but now I don't know who you're talking about. If pitchfork, then any dudes listening are self-conscious enough to have known who rich was certainly by the time "1 Thing" came out. If you're talking the general middle class uni-educated indie-leaning white public then I think they knew The Neptunes but neither Timbaland nor Rich.

Basically these guys who are like "Timbaland was amazing" but don't listen to other R&B are also into: Luciano/Villalobos, wonky (esp. wossisname from LA), mnml ssgs style stentorian Berghain berlin techno, anything post-Basic Channel, Tectonic Plates/Hessle Audio/Martyn, Theo Parrish obv, and anything that falls within those parameters.

Amazingly, people who over-identify with the "I only listen to futuristic music" w/r/t commercial R&B tend to adopt the same stance w/r/t everything else.

Obv. a lot of good music falls within these boundaries!

It's okay to like music for cool noises you guys. That's not why I like The-Dream etc. but let's not get all pop-rockist just yet.

I agree!

Probably half of Lex's point is that Timbaland/The Neptunes aren't the only guys to make R&B with cool noises but they're the only ones acknowledged as such by a certain audience.

If you're talking the general middle class uni-educated indie-leaning white public then I think they knew The Neptunes but neither Timbaland nor Rich.

i'm sure they'd have known timbaland! the double-act with missy, the vocal presence on half his songs even before he tipped into pop star status himself in 06/07.

Yeah, I'm saying they were in a particularly bad patch circa 2000.

disagree totally! even apart from aaliyah, there were loads of ballad-heavy r&b albums released in 2000-01 - alicia keys, kelis, d'angelo, mjb...just off the top of my head. DC were rarely good at ballads but they were always kind of anomalous in that respect.

i guess i'm talking about the uk broadsheet press here - in 2001 i had no idea pitchfork existed (oh happy days), and i've rarely read reynolds on r&b b/c lol why would anyone do that. i'm not really having a pop at anyone specific though, it's just a bunch of wrong-headed ideas that seem to be rather commonly held across non-r&b critics and those that read them.

It's okay to like music for cool noises you guys

yeah, praising cool sounds isn't a bad thing - cool sounds are cool - but judging everything within a particular genre to "cool sounds y/n" is horribly reductive and ignorant.

i didn't really start buying R&B albums regularly until i started freelancing 4-5 years ago, although it'd been my favorite singles genre for years before that and for a while i wasn't barely buying albums anyway. so i guess i'm part of the problem!

Also I know I've got a stake here but, um, who writes about R&B albums a lot on pitchfork apart from me anyway? They simply didn't cover it at all during the 2000-2001 era, as far as I can recall.

ha i wrote a D'Angelo review they never published. D'Angelo!

Fancy.

Shit wrong poll.

Nikki

voted "nikki" but i sort of hate alex for pointing out what a bad line "springtime, summertime, falltime, winter" is in one of these threads. now it bothers me every time.

lol sorry but seriously that line

i really like "nikki" but mainly because of the way the beat bleeds in from "fast car"...tho "fast car" is probably my 2nd fav song on the album "nikki" really signals that this shit is about to get real

xp ha why don't you like that line? and you reviewed voodoo (i assume)? would have liked to have read that

how could it not be I Luv Your Girl? am i alone in this?

Nope. I've probably listened to that song like five hundred times in the past six months. (OK, maybe not that much, but even after the first album finally clicked -- I hadn't listened to it enough -- that one never fails to mesmerize. "Fancy" seems like the idealized version of what's going on in "I Luv Your Girl" musically for some reason but haven't figured out why I think that yet.)

a) because FALLTIME and b) yes, Voodoo

more like failtime eh

falltime is not that bad

love this album to the extent that i could have gone with any of 8/9 songs here. wish i could get with the new one too but it ain't happening; the harder i try to hear what y'all hear in it the more i end up mumbling to myself something like "jeez, am i nuts or is this just a watered-down retread of the debut?"

I think he means the aforementioned seasonal line as "Fall Time" - the fall of the relationship, which leads into, of course, (Hate Me All) Winter.

(Just kidding; that line's indefensible.)

I love the new mixtape, just getting this now.

"Sweat It Out" off the new one is amazing, that bit at the end where he's just roaring "SO PUT IT ON ME LIKE YEAH" as if his entire family has just been murdered before his eyes.

New mixtape? To clarify, please?

okay well the thing I have is love/money? or is it an album?

New mixtape? To clarify, please?

― MTLiens (Alex in Montreal), Monday, September 7, 2009 4:01 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

sweat it out is on 'love/money', the album from this year. theres no 'new mixtape'

o dear

yeah love vs money was officially released in the UK...today.

I might be being dense here, but I still don't get why that line is so bad. Is it because nobody actually says "falltime"? And if so, he could have been making a sly reference to songwriting and its conventions or even his own occasional ineptness w/r/t lyrics, kind of like New Order often did. I mean, he coulda said "autumn" and have it scan pretty much the same, but then everyone would've been like "lol British!" I genuinely don't understand the criticism. Anyone?

some dude's just jealous he didnt think of "falltime" first - like a true dream-hater

I think I'm going to rep for "falltime" IRL now.

yeah thats what im saying, 'falltime' really doesnt sound weird at all imo

people actually say "summertime" and "springtime" -- they even say "wintertime" but he doesn't say that! that's why the line is shit!

i mean granted it could've been written in a knowing/playful way, but it's still shit

yeah i think at the very least it was that

Ha, I just realised I gave myself away by mentioning New Order -- I mean, I like shit lyrics!

how about 'a knowing/playful way, but its not shit' -- it really isnt that ridiculous i promise

i know you like rap w/ more awkwardly created lines

Yeah even if it was an awkward line - it doesn't strike me as one - there's so many more awkward/sub-literate stuff on the same album you could object to.

can you assemble a list to poll?

please don't :(

don't actually like this album all that much but Shawty Is da Sh*! is a jam.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I luv ur girl/fast car

purple kisses
fast car
she needs my love
luv songs
falsetto
shawty is da shit!
playin in her hair
mama
livin a lie
nikki
I luv your girl
ditch that...

besides the first two and the last one, that's a reallll fluid ranking

hahaha thought i would never see the day when this poll would end

did I really not vote on this before?

gave mine to "She Needs My Love" because it seems to encapsulate everything he's capable of doing on this album more than any other track

"Fast Car"

^^was my favorite for a long time, but seems kind of limited in retrospek

answer same as it was back then, "she needs my love"

purrrrrple kisses, purrrrple kisses

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

every song got a vote = ^_^

winner otm

ya these results are good

"mama" still sadly underrated ;_;

yeah whoever voted that is awesome

^^^

took me a long time to f/w that song but once it got to me, it always makes me ;_;

"mama" still sadly underrated ;_;

I voted for it but TBH mainly because I expected no one else would. It's def one of my absolute favourites though. Always makes me cry too.

A lot of votes, all things considered.

it was open for 10 months after all

amazing how Los brings it so much harder than tricky on this album, besides "mama" the songs i love the most are all mckinneys

i'm not ashamed to say that "mama" kills me damn near every time

I am.

i never listen to that song tbh

05. She Needs My Love 8

i think this one got a bit overrated -- luv songs, falsetto & playin in her hair are all better

purrrrrple kisses, purrrrple kisses

― peed on tree (k3vin k.), Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:56 AM (3 months ago)

me otm

everytime this thread is revived im obsessing over a different song - recently been big into 'ditch that', surprisingly

purple kisses
fast car
she needs my love
luv songs
falsetto
shawty is da shit!
playin in her hair
mama
livin a lie
nikki
I luv your girl
ditch that...

― k3vin k., Saturday, November 14, 2009 7:27 PM (3 months ago)

bump "she needs my love" down a couple, slide "shawty is the shit" above "falsetto". theyre all so close besides "ditch that..." tho for me

ha xp

05. She Needs My Love 8

i think this one got a bit overrated -- luv songs, falsetto & playin in her hair are all better

― J0rdan S., Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:59 PM Bookmark

the chorus sounds BIGGER than anything else he's done

yeah i feel that

"ditch that" has that middle section that sounds like chromeo -- my only problem w/ "ditch that" is that it's placed really weirdly on the album -- it's like they wrote & recorded the song & knew it was dope but didnt know where to place it

amazing how Los brings it so much harder than tricky on this album, besides "mama" the songs i love the most are all mckinneys

― wtf lebron, that chick doesn't need a gatorade bath (k3vin k.), Saturday, January 30, 2010 6:15 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark

tbh, if you polled dream & los vs dream & tricky i would choose dream & los

Still prefer this album to Love vs Money.

i don't think you're in the minority there

well maybe you/we are, but not amongst xxcore dream stans

yeah i don't really like it at all but it being between PK & LS is just as bad - tbh "luv songs" does sort of work as a comedown after "ditch that" but i def feel like it and "purple kisses" should be side-by-side

xp re: ditch that

i'm not ashamed to say that "mama" kills me damn near every time

― pearsonic, Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:56 PM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

otm

one of the million things i love about "purple kisses" is how the melody is IN THE PERCUSSION - idk if it's supposed to be a xylophone or whatever but it's incredible

and "cuz you do it just how i like...UNNNGGGHHHHH"

amazing how Los brings it so much harder than tricky on this album, besides "mama" the songs i love the most are all mckinneys

― wtf lebron, that chick doesn't need a gatorade bath (k3vin k.), Saturday, January 30, 2010 6:15 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark

tbh, if you polled dream & los vs dream & tricky i would choose dream & los

― J0rdan S., Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:09 PM (Yesterday)

yeah this is basically a no-brainer imo

they should just rename this thread "challoping gorrilla"

lol

i don't think that one's quite as obscure an opinion, I mean iirc he's had more legit hits with los

are there any other albums whose threads are bumped every few months so that people can talk about how they have reordered their preferences

I would like to know

People who don't recognise w/r/t "Mama" should have snoopshakinghead.gif follow them around for life like a little rain cloud that only rains on them.

as a former "Mama"-hater, OTM

not a h8r just one i never really listen to

u should listen to it more often

holy shit, i never heard the spoken word intro to 'nikki' til right now - sound qual on the lp is also much better than my illegally downloaded copy for that song

what spoken word intro?

do you mean "livin a lie"?

nope - on the LP there's this like, 15 second long intro to "nikki" where dream is all "fuck you you never cared about me" etc

WHOA. you mean. LP = vinyl, yes? gotta get me one of those stat.

where did you track it down?

they had a billion deadstock of those a few months after it came out at gramaphone before he became an IMPORTANT ARTIST

it was like 4.99 for the LP, lmao. ive got a copy natch XD

so what's the transition like between "fast car" & "nikki"

the beat switch up at the end of "fast car" transitioning right into those thumping drums and going right into "nikki" is one of my fav parts of the album

this def doesn't happen on the cd btw

yeah i bought the lp a long time ago but my record player is at my house and i'm usually outta state at school

"nikki" starts side B of the record, so there's really no transition per se

WHOA. you mean. LP = vinyl, yes? gotta get me one of those stat.

― Alex in Montreal, Monday, May 10, 2010 12:23 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

where did you track it down?

― Alex in Montreal, Monday, May 10, 2010 12:23 AM (7 minutes ago)

amazon iirc

"nikki" starts side B of the record, so there's really no transition per se

― sveltko (k3vin k.), Sunday, May 9, 2010 11:31 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

v int

how does nikki start side B...it's the fourth track. weird.

four sides

i wonder if any new perspective on this record can be gained from viewing it in four, three song sections or if it's just a function of the medium

its one record

iirc?

maybe not

lol no it's 2LP, 4 sides. 3 songs a side

it must be four sides

^__^

ha

You guys.

I feel like in 10 years we are still going to be reevaluating this album, this must be what the eternal recurrence is like

Love/Fond of/Bored of/Hate

never that

It was a "four sides" dad joke that didn't even work ;_;

I don't think you "got" j0rdan's joke

^^^still don't get the "four sides" joke, was i the butt of this?

People who don't recognise w/r/t "Mama" should have snoopshakinghead.gif follow them around for life like a little rain cloud that only rains on them.

― Tim F, Sunday, February 21, 2010 8:35 AM (10 months ago)

anyway awesome post, this

answer is "shawty is da shit" over "purple kisses" tho

kevin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbcpHDNHd6I&ob=av2nl

1:16

i'm really partial to I Luv Your Girl. not just the enchanting vocals but the sentiment of the song is one that fit me about two years ago, definitely can relate....

always surprised by the placing of "Purple Kisses," don't know if i dislike it but it's easily the least memorable song on the album for me

also "Mama" makes me misty eyed...

^^^still don't get the "four sides" joke, was i the butt of this?

all the-dream overthinkers on ILX were, I thought.

j0rdan's "four sides" joke was a shawty lo reference, tim f's sides joke was independent of it and not predicated on any kind of misunderstanding of j0rdan's joke even if he didn't get it

http://tbohiphop.net/upload/files/5/Mixtapez/STEPBROTHERS-V2.jpg

I always thought this was a joke too:

i wonder if any new perspective on this record can be gained from viewing it in four, three song sections or if it's just a function of the medium

ha, you know, i just read that after this revive and i myself don't even know if i was joking

iirc you did seem kind of amazed at the fast car -> nikki lack of transition so i think you were being straight

true

that is one of my favorite parts of the whole record too

hmm..."she needs my love" over "fast car"? i can hear that. i really wish there was a single mix for "fast car". the fade into nikki is one of my favourite things about the album, but i like the song enough that sometimes i want ot listen to it on its own, and there's no sense of finality EVER. *sigh*

― MTLiens (Alex in Montreal), Thursday, July 9, 2009 9:25 PM (Yesterday)

yeah i fuckin love right when nikki starts, it's like whoa shit just got real

― (k3vin k.), Friday, July 10, 2009 1:42 AM (1 year ago)

i always like to look up where the vinyl sides get divided on CD era albums and see if that gives me any interesting perspective on the structure of the album but it usually just seems arbitrary and unnatural because the artist probably never considered that when sequencing it.

I love how "I Luv Your Girl" has a much less cocky tone than like the "My Way"songs of the 90s. Apologetic even!

He's more like "sorry dawg, ya know, I don't normally do this but well she's coming onto me and I can't say no!"...

i listened to love/hate in full last night, first time since probably mid 2009 i've done so, and (sorry don't kill me) it's def my least favorite terius album. i mean, it has it's moments... mostly the run from "she needs my love" --> "falsetto" and onward a couple tracks until the dead-end of "ditch that"... i realize he was still FINDING HIS VOICE or whatever, but a lot of the songs here sound underdeveloped/unfinished re: hooks, not as fully fleshed out, like they could've used another rewrite in the studio.

whoever said "fast car" was better than "yamaha" (rev?) could not be more RONG, btw

it has it's moments

scratch that apostrophe, i am not an idiot just a bad typist

i don't love L/H but i don't think it's because he hadn't found his voice or developed his sound yet, which seems like an odd critique given that most of the biggest songs he's written were on that album or released earlier

yeah i'm shocked that ilxor's post is completely wrong

lol

I do think there's a link between newcomers to The-Dream preferring him in Love King mode to Love/Hate mode (though, obv, these "modes" are all a matter of degree - "She Needs My Love" and "Sex Intelligent" reflect each other as "Luv Songs" and "Turnt Out" do) - if you're jumping on board with The-Dream now you're buying into this whole pre-established narrative of this sonically voluptuous studio-auteur who has created his own little soundworld.

This was something you could have started to articulate with the first album but it's much more clear-cut now (if anything because The-Dream's capacity to write good non-soundworldy material is more limited now, the only LK classic in that vein is "F.I.L.A." and even that's pretty dense).

Hence ilxor's wrongheaded but understandable claim that "a lot of the songs here sound underdeveloped/unfinished" - from a 2010 The-Dream perspective, this is correct to the extent that The-Dream probably would have added more bells and whistles to these if he was making them now.

Conversely, from a 2008 The-Dream perspective "Love King", "Make Up Bag", "Panties To The Side" and "February Love", and perhaps even "Nikki Pt 2" would have all felt like they needed more work as songs.

I don't know if these albums are that stylistically distinct from each other to have different "modes" tbh and is there anything to this 'newbies like Love King best' thing outside of one or two people on this thread?

i dunno al that seems pretty on point to me

& i think they do tend to privilege love vs money if they're in the latter camp, rather than love king, but thats probably when most of them first got on board yeah?

I have been listening to The-Dream for only a short few months and as of right now, as I've previously mentioned, I like the first two better than Love King.

i was kind of hoping that going out of my way to say L/H isn't my favourite terius album would mean an end to people blithely asserting that "newbies like the new ones best" as though you're only a True Fan if your fav is L/H

Yeah but you like LvM more than L/H, right San Te?

I don't know if these albums are that stylistically distinct from each other to have different "modes" tbh

see the caveat in my post exactly on this point al.

xpost regarding ilxor's point, I think Love/Hate is as polished a debut album as you're ever going to get from anybody -- it doesn't seem undeveloped to me at all. Really the only reason I like Love Vs. Money better is that it's a 'heavier' album, which is what I tend to gravitate towards. each album has probably only one song I'm not fond of.

Also I am not all sure they won't switch places at all. Love/Hate begins with a 1-2-3 punch that's hard to beat.

yes Tim I do. but it's not by a wide margin.

i was kind of hoping that going out of my way to say L/H isn't my favourite terius album would mean an end to people blithely asserting that "newbies like the new ones best" as though you're only a True Fan if your fav is L/H

― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Wednesday, January 19, 2011 4:00 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

we r all snowflakes

lex you made a valiant effort, but after all, this is ILX

BTW i'm not rubbishing people for liking LK or LvM best, I just think that the point in time that you get into this dude is likely to influence the way you perceive his mix of strengths and weaknesses and how that mix plays out from album to album.

If anything the opposite can strike me as more wrongheaded in a lot of cases, there are heaps of artists who I reckon only peaked with say their 5th or 6th album but the early adopters remain (IMO sentimentally) attached to the earlier releases.

when you come into fandom can definitely play a role in your favorites, whether conscious or subconscious, but for me that usually only happens if an artist goes through a distinct and pronounced change in sound/style. IE, I started listening to Savatage after their shift to poppy progrsesive metal as opposed to their raw metal of the early days, so the early stuff sounded "weird" to me at first and I didn't like it as much...until years later.

i got into terius with L/H. but even then what i preferred was his sonic voluptuous mode, for which he went much further out on LvM. don't you think there's something in the fact that this is the mode that he seems to prefer as well? especially given how rote his "ordinary" songs have become, it doesn't seem like his heart's in those.

i do think that he has largely abandoned the more writerly ones, but i dont know that u can really determine was his motivating factor was -- it does seem to me that he probably thought his personality & melodic ear would help carry those songs & he didnt need to worry so much about structure & creating 'standards' & could move into auteur mode. whether or not that is a good or bad thing seems to be what is debated here -- it seems like a reasonable generalization (which lex is apparently an exception to) to say that the earlier you got into him, the more u tended to prefer the former style

andy k is an exception too

a generalisation based on about 5 people, with 2 exceptions? this is why i don't buy that this is a thing.

idk seems like its based on a lot more than 5 ppl to me -- basically everyone who talks about getting into dream circa LvM or later thinks L/H is worse than LvM -- theres a lot of evidence of this on like every dream thread on ilx

whereas the ppl who rep for L/H first are almost exclusively ppl who got into L/H right after it dropped -- yes there are like 2 ppl who prefer his later development but that doesnt contradict either general trend i just described

"everyone"

I do think there's a link between newcomers to The-Dream preferring him in Love King mode to Love/Hate mode (though, obv, these "modes" are all a matter of degree - "She Needs My Love" and "Sex Intelligent" reflect each other as "Luv Songs" and "Turnt Out" do) - if you're jumping on board with The-Dream now you're buying into this whole pre-established narrative of this sonically voluptuous studio-auteur who has created his own little soundworld.

This was something you could have started to articulate with the first album but it's much more clear-cut now (if anything because The-Dream's capacity to write good non-soundworldy material is more limited now, the only LK classic in that vein is "F.I.L.A." and even that's pretty dense).

Hence ilxor's wrongheaded but understandable claim that "a lot of the songs here sound underdeveloped/unfinished" - from a 2010 The-Dream perspective, this is correct to the extent that The-Dream probably would have added more bells and whistles to these if he was making them now.

Conversely, from a 2008 The-Dream perspective "Love King", "Make Up Bag", "Panties To The Side" and "February Love", and perhaps even "Nikki Pt 2" would have all felt like they needed more work as songs.

― Tim F, Wednesday, January 19, 2011 3:53 PM (36 minutes ago)

tim i think yr arguments are good (as per usual) but this would prob hold more weight for me if i was really a newcomer. i mean, i wasn't listening to the-dream back whenever deej started (lol?) but i picked up Love/Hate in Q4 2008 when it was the only album on shelves, then lived with it for something like 3-4 months before Love Vs Money came out in March 2009.

"everyone"

― i love tampon spaceship (San Te), Wednesday, January 19, 2011 4:34 PM (41 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

"had a modifier"

also note phrases like it seems like a reasonable generalization

general trend

i mean jesus dudes, you got us, we thought every single person thought this way

yeesh

i'm saying it doesn't seem like an accurate generalisation, neither here on ilx nor irl for me, and your desire to ascribe consensus where none exists doesn't stand up?

lex have you read no non-ILM crit on the-dream?

even on ilx though:
is there some huge number of ilxors who got on board post-LvM who think L/H is the best one?

i cant recall anyone

yes, the converse is *slightly* more common on ilx, home of the contraristan

tim i know a ton of people irl, most of whom are not critics, who are huge huge terius stans lol

you could say, actually, that most CRITICS got on board with LvM and (thus) prefer it and LK to L/H - and i'd agree with that. but i'm not talking about critics, and i don't think that generalisation applies to terius fans across the board.

also fyi i don't actually read a great deal of music crit at all so if yr going in on ~critics~ i'm likely to not know what you're talking about :/

I know a lot of people into the-dream irl as well, most of them got on board between lvm and lk (and a good half of them due to my stanning), and most rank albums either:

1. LvM 2. LK 3. L/H

or

1. LK 2. LvM 3. L/H

this is also reflected in a lot of stuff i've read on-line.

nb. to the extent that a lot of these people follow R&B half-heartedly (as compared to say you or me or andy k or the goons) they are perhaps more likely to code as "critics" rather than "terius fans" for the purpose of this conversation.

x-post - yeah maybe this is the crucial point.

Again I don't think this is something that's worth getting het up over given that both the differences in the albums and the differences in people's enjoyment of the albums are largely a matter of degree. It's not like there are unfathomable aesthetic divisions between the type of person who likes LK best and the type of person who likes L/H best.

i got into terius with L/H. but even then what i preferred was his sonic voluptuous mode, for which he went much further out on LvM.

also with regard to the above, as was discussed in one of the other threads I actually agree about preferring the epic stuff by and large, I just think when he was good at both it made for a stronger overall album.

don't you think there's something in the fact that this is the mode that he seems to prefer as well? especially given how rote his "ordinary" songs have become, it doesn't seem like his heart's in those.

this point kinda plays both ways - assuming you're correct, it's not hard to see why an artist whose heart isn't into about half the stuff he does might be slipping slightly in quality.

yeah i'd also agree that people who aren't R&B fans will def prefer the later albums. but so do R&B fans (who are the irl people i'm referring to)!

idk the impression i get is that LvM is the consensus favourite across the board, regardless of what kind of fan you are or when you got into terius, with outliers preferring L/H or LK (well i know v.few people who say LK is the best but whatever).

idk the impression i get is that LvM is the consensus favourite across the board, regardless of what kind of fan you are or when you got into terius, with outliers preferring L/H or LK (well i know v.few people who say LK is the best but whatever).

― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Wednesday, January 19, 2011 4:52 PM (5 seconds ago) Bookmark

haha so this is your underlying argument

now i have to ask, with so many ilx exceptions, how can that possibly be an accurate generalization

i mean turnabout = fair play right

objectivity by false consensus

I just think when he was good at both it made for a stronger overall album.

i guess i think LvM's "ordinary" songs are on a similar level to L/H's "ordinary" songs (or better), and it definitely flows better as an album - L/H is pretty scattershot if you try to listen to it all the way through - i tend to listen to bunches of similar songs on it, whereas on LvM i think terius blends the ordinary into the epic in a pretty amazing way.

oh hi guys -- you're still here?

i guess i think LvM's "ordinary" songs are on a similar level to L/H's "ordinary" songs (or better), and it definitely flows better as an album - L/H is pretty scattershot if you try to listen to it all the way through - i tend to listen to bunches of similar songs on it, whereas on LvM i think terius blends the ordinary into the epic in a pretty amazing way.

― lex diamonds (lex pretend), Wednesday, January 19, 2011 4:55 PM (47 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

see this argument sounds like an 'outlier' to me

Hence ilxor's wrongheaded but understandable claim that "a lot of the songs here sound underdeveloped/unfinished" - from a 2010 The-Dream perspective, this is correct to the extent that The-Dream probably would have added more bells and whistles to these if he was making them now.

Conversely, from a 2008 The-Dream perspective "Love King", "Make Up Bag", "Panties To The Side" and "February Love", and perhaps even "Nikki Pt 2" would have all felt like they needed more work as songs.

― Tim F, Wednesday, January 19, 2011 4:53 PM (2 minutes ago)

so otm

LvM/LK feel like tryhards, L/H is smooth all the way til the rihanna joint

the breakdown at the end of fast car where the harpsichord comes in = omg

Hence ilxor's wrongheaded but understandable claim that "a lot of the songs here sound underdeveloped/unfinished" - from a 2010 The-Dream perspective, this is correct to the extent that The-Dream probably would have added more bells and whistles to these if he was making them now.

Conversely, from a 2008 The-Dream perspective "Love King", "Make Up Bag", "Panties To The Side" and "February Love", and perhaps even "Nikki Pt 2" would have all felt like they needed more work as songs.

― Tim F, Wednesday, January 19, 2011 4:53 PM (2 minutes ago)

so otm

― fruit of the goon (k3vin k.), Wednesday, January 19, 2011 5:07 PM (3 hours ago)

otm how so? i mean, maybe if i started listening to the-dream in 2010, but i've been on board since Q4 2008 soooo

forget about the part where he referred to you

lol okay i get it now- tim f otm as per usual

yeah apologies ilxor for misrepresenting you. Of course these kinds of discussions will always founder on specific examples if it comes down to who liked what when (one would think for obvious reasons, but my constant surprise doesn't change the fact that the ilx modus operandi is for people to make sweeping assessments like "oh this album is like blah" and then ark up if any other person's explanation doesn't capture their own experience exactly).

my point was more trying to explain the relationship between the narrative of the-dream that underpins your assessment and the narrative that underpins mine - it's not just about liking "yamaha" versus liking "purple kisses" (esp. since most days "yamaha" is my favourite tune on LK) but rather goes to yr entire notion of what "overdone" versus "underdone" means in the context of the-dream's work.

kind of feel like nitpicking the differences between these albums is a little like trying to explain how the first 3 Ramones albums are so so different from each other or something

in general, yeah, but I suspect the differences feel more meaningful for anyone who would name one of these albums their favourite album of x year etc, as a lot of people in this thread would.

If you've never thought of the-dream as rising above a solid 7 or 8 out of 10, then, sure, it'd be a pretty pointless conversation.

right

anyway i feel like love king is sort of a (lamer) update on love vs money more than either really builds on love/hate

got me dead to rights there

ha dude what tim said isn't like an idictment of you or anything; you obv acknowledge that our terristannery is sort of outta control

indictment*

i wasn't being sarcastic or sassy or anything, i understand and agree. like i could nitpick minute details between Superchunk albums or something because i like some of them more than any The-Dream album.

chorus of "She Needs My Love" is so massive

i have made this point before, apparently

fast car/ nikki, highlight of the-dreams career thus far

wait til you get to purple kisses and luv songs

It's grown on me a bit, but I always thought "Fast Car" was kind of silly and out of place on Love/Hate. It still doesn't seem as fleshed out as his subsequent Prince homages to me.

it's certainly the barest, which is why i probably love it most

Never got the overwhelming love for Fast Car. Vastly prefer Nikki (pretty sure i voted for it in this poll)

'playin' in her hair' followed by 'purple kisses' is his pinnacle

voted "nikki" but i sort of hate alex for pointing out what a bad line "springtime, summertime, falltime, winter" is in one of these threads. now it bothers me every time.

― horseshoe, Monday, September 7, 2009 2:02 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark

I like that line! There's a beautiful asymmetry to it, the way it sets up a pattern of two-syllable seasons then stops cold with this abrupt dead-end. It perfectly parallels the relationship he's describing.

i think 'fast car' is a way better prince homage than 'yamaha', which is way overrated imo

yeah i dont think its a bad line either

and schoolin' life is better than both xp

no it's not

getting the two of you mixed up

it really isnt, both dream songs are way better

lol we always seem to post right after each other aswell

I hadn't even realized you were different posters til now.

where's "ol"

'playin' in her hair' followed by 'purple kisses' is his pinnacle

― prolego, Tuesday, September 13, 2011 5:23 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

i could buy this

purple kisses
fast car
she needs my love
luv songs
falsetto
shawty is da shit!
playin in her hair
mama
livin a lie
nikki
I luv your girl
ditch that...

― k3vin k., Saturday, November 14, 2009 7:27 PM (seven years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

besides the first two and the last one, that's a reallll fluid ranking

― k3vin k., Saturday, November 14, 2009 7:28 PM (seven years ago)

i think i stand by this

purple kisses
fast car
she needs my love
luv songs
falsetto
shawty is da shit!
playin in her hair
mama
livin a lie
nikki
I luv your girl
ditch that...

― k3vin k., Saturday, November 14, 2009 7:27 PM (3 months ago)

bump "she needs my love" down a couple, slide "shawty is the shit" above "falsetto". theyre all so close besides "ditch that..." tho for me

ha xp

― vag gangsta (k3vin k.), Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:05 PM (six years ago

actually this

not sure if i've listened to this album this decade

hey it's been 5 years cut me a little slack

'playin' in her hair' followed by 'purple kisses' is his pinnacle

― prolego, Tuesday, September 13, 2011 5:23 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark

this opinion holds up

tbh i considered doing so recently after seeing the dance troupe that deej recently posted on rolling raps did a routine to 'i luv your girl'... but then i looked at it and i could still play all the songs in my head just fine

'livin a lie' is sounding great in my head right now. alfred always was right on that one

Livin a Lie seems poignant now, like remember when r&b playing with housey beats seemed fun?

This may seem like heresy, but I could never get into this one. Probably because I heard the second LP first, and then when I came back to LP 1 it just seemed a bit too flat and not quite self-aware enough.

i always felt like that too, like i can't not be thinking 'i cd be listenin to love vs money'. i love fast car tho

that is wrong, just fyi

'livin a lie' is sounding great in my head right now. alfred always was right on that one

― r|t|c, Saturday, January 14, 2017 7:25 PM (

https://m.popkey.co/d86114/qxy0g.gif

i luv your girl shd be #1 i now think

falsetto is also just a perfect song

xpost "and I pray that y'all ain't serious/cos seriously, she's on my dick" still a good zing

ty also sry horseshoe, i kno. when i was younger i didn't like tomatoes + i knew that was wrong also