Green Day - 21st Century Breakdown

earnest anticipation of this.... thing

Green Day's 21st Century Breakdown, one of 2009's most-anticipated records, releases in May. Yesterday, reps from the band's label, Warner Bros., swung by SPIN's lower Manhattan office to play us six of the album's 16 tracks and feed us a bucket of fried chicken.

Our verdict? We love it. (The chicken was pretty good, too.)

In the six songs, Green Day keep their punk urgency and lyrical angst, but expand their ambition. They use dramatic musical shifts reminiscent of Queen, and Who-like classic rock guitars. There's even a poignant piano ballad that Fiona Apple could love.

Billie Joe Armstrong's vocals push towards falsetto, adding a new level of emotion to his singing.

And his lyrics mix the political with the social, depicting marginal characters betrayed by church and state. Focusing on greed, corrupted religion, and war, the conceptual album is broken into three parts: Heroes and Cons, Charlatans and Saints, and Horseshoes and Handgrenades.

21st Century Breakdown, the follow-up to 2004's Grammy-winning American Idiot, took Armstrong three years to write. The band has been in the studio with producer Butch Vig (Nirvana, Against Me!) since last fall.

Here are some highlights from the six tracks we heard:

"21st Century Breakdown" Green Day's most epic song yet. With the quiet-verse, loud-chorus dynamics of Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody," this five-minute cut builds from harpsichord and Edge-like guitar fills to assaultive drums and arena-filling barre chords. Armstrong's lyrics about his peers are as urgent as the music: "My generation is zero / I never made it as a working class hero. Dream America, dream / Scream America, scream."

"Know Your Enemy"
The song's fast pace and feverish guitar make this track sound like an outtake from the Dookie sessions. And Armstrong continues his political screed: "Do you know the enemy / “Silence is the enemy so give me revolution.”

"Before the Lobotomy"
Armstrong sings like you've never heard him before. Strumming an acoustic guitar, he hits all the high notes, as his lyrics lament a character in such pain his "misery [is] drenched in gasoline."

"March of the Dogs"
Handclaps, surf guitar, lyrics about sodomized dogs -- all accompanying a scathing indictment of contemporary religion. Hard and fast from start to finish, this spiky four-and-a-half-minute tune finds Armstrong ranting, "I threw my conscience in the river in the shadow of doubt," referencing the famous Biblical passage, Psalm 23:4, which reads, "I will walk through the valley of the shadow of death... I will fear no evil."

"Restless Heart Syndrome"
Green Day's largest sonic departure yet. With quiet piano and confessional lyrics ("I've got a really bad disease / Its got me on my hands and knees") Armstrong channels Fiona Apple. Until the Linkin Park-style guitars kick in.

"21 Guns"
The catchiest of the new songs. This track covers a lot of territory in its five minutes, from a solo acoustic guitar (reminiscent of "Boulevard of Broken Dreams") to Brian May-worthy electric riffage. But the chorus holds the killer hook, as Armstrong hits never-before-reached highs with his voice in a thrilling moment that reminds us of Mott the Hoople's "All the Young Dudes."
Well done, guys.

title track was floating around but i can't find it anywhere

i loved a lot of american idiot but haven' listened to it in forever

no

The band has been in the studio with producer Butch Vig (Nirvana, Against Me!) since last fall.

I love how those kind of qualifiers will change with time. Ten years back it would have been 'Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins'

that against me! album is incredible

ayo did you ever hear this?

http://991.com/NewGallery/Foxboro-Hot-Tubs-Stop-Drop-And-Rol-433858.jpg

imo incognito retro goofin' >>>> any "real" Green Day album they could come up with at this point

lol

"My generation is zero / I never made it as a working class hero. Dream America, dream / Scream America, scream."

i'm sort of excited for this though.

nah i should get it tho... i wasn't really feeling the single but yeah i wouldn't mind retro goofin xp

really i have no problem with bloated labored rock operas coming from the right kinds of artists, but shit like American Idiot and The Black Parade from formerly fast fun punk/pop bands is like a politician breaking the one campaign promise that put them in power to begin with.

much like politician's breaking campaign promises it's kind of inevitable tho

still don't get how you don't fuck w/ black parade, it's a diff look for them obv but the massive choruses are still there

really i have no problem with bloated labored rock operas coming from the right kinds of artists, but shit like American Idiot and The Black Parade from formerly fast fun punk/pop bands is like a politician breaking the one campaign promise that put them in power to begin with.

― pour some suggban on me (some dude), Monday, February 23, 2009 9:16 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

but the major "opus" on american idiot was really just a bunch of really short mid-period Who songs just jammed together...it was like some tales from topographic oceans shit.

it was basically just "A quick one while he's away" for mall punx, which seemed in the lineage to me.

don't know the black parade, but i generally think that band sucks balls.

"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"
"Restless Heart Syndrome"

i will buy this shit because i still love this band aint even frontin

Billie Joe Armstrong's vocals push towards falsetto, adding a new level of emotion to his singing.

This is all you need to read to know that this album will be awful.

Billie Joe Armstrong's vocals push towards falsetto, adding a new level of emotion to his singing. This is all you need to read to know that this album will be awful.

Indeed. Ouch.

That said, "wake me when september is over" still kills me, but then I first heard it when I hadn't seen my sailor in a few months so I'll use that as my dumb excuse for listening to it a bunch when it first came out. Hmmm.... apparently I got annoyed at it at some point though, since I just looked for it in my itunes & it's not in there anymore.

maybe because it's called wake me up when september ends?

or because you deleted it because it's terrible?

Yeah, it really was crap. Good lord, Summer 2005.

[i]"Before the Lobotomy" Armstrong sings like you've never heard him before. Strumming an acoustic guitar, he hits all the high notes, as his lyrics lament a character in such pain his "misery [is] drenched in gasoline."[i]

I'm half interested in listening to this one once, just because that description makes it sound soooo bad.

also leaked, also haven't heard it

So good.

So good.

Sounds like Big Country

ooohh shhiiiit

this is super good

the clash aping the who + the smoothest ballads they've ever done

this is not good. 70 MINUTES. silky edge-free Vig blandness. played-out chord progressions and cringeworthy lyrics. all "statement," no actual content.

"played-out chord progressions"

There's like 12 notes dude. This isn't Tool.

yeah but lots of guitar bands find ways to not rip off their own shit this blatantly for 70 MINUTES.

or any other musical acts for that matter. 70 MINUTES.

sounds like you're having a 21st Century Breakdown, Simon.

i still can't believe there are people who liked American Idiot, so i don't even know where to begin with this convo

i'm really curious what "content" means in the dichotomy of "statement vs. content"

This might be their best album. I'm holding off going totally hyperbolic until i have a few listens under my belt.

yall got me too hyped

american idiot is great obviously

by "content" I guess I'm looking for anything beyond basic sloganeering, which is a tall order in this case. more importantly, though, I just find it tepid in every sense. oh, and the most lively track is an obvious "main offender" rip-off.

Oh and it may not be Tool but they are taking up 70 MINUTES as a Tool record would.

I mean if the praise continues I might give it another shot but "punk urgency"? I didn't hear any.

Um, save "punk urgency" for punk bands, homie. Todd P usually books the good ones at Market Hotel. This is a major label pop band who writes political songs.

I get that, I was just marveling at the quote from ^^^the top. Pop bands shouldn't make records this long, especially if their "political" lyrics are this toothless.

70 MINUTES

all are worth it

I just wanna say again: This album is tremendous. I've got a review of it coming out where I basically gush about how amazing it is.

Pop bands shouldn't make records this long, especially if their "political" lyrics are this toothless.

Toothless! Unlike all those punk bands who are making such a huge difference in the world with their music! IMHO, this album has more of a potential impact on its listeners (particularly when you consider who its listeners are) than 99% of contemporary political albums.

21st Century Breakdown, the follow-up to 2004's Grammy-winning American Idiot, took Armstrong three years to write.

Well there's the problem.. They need to go back to writing and recording the entire thing in a month.

Not just being annoying, but wondering: who is their audience? Cos to 17 year olds, they're dads, and to 35 year olds, they're embarrassing. Have they successfully become Bon Jovi lifers?

my 17 year old brother loved Green Day intensely from about 11 on, and I am pretty sure he still does..

Give him a year.

He'll be scavenging the net for Animal Collective b-sides before the end of freshman year's first semester.

um, paulhw,

to 17-year-olds they're eyeliner-clad progenitors/heroes of the same scene that spawned My Chemical Romance and Fall Out Boy. When I was 17 in 1997, kids still listened to Metallica and Red Hot Chili Peppers and The Smiths and the Misfits--and OMG they were all old then. I don't know what hip rock and roll high school you went to where they only listened to college radio. And 35-year-olds like them because they're classic rock now too... and they remember them from when they were in college! In other words, many many people have opinions outside of the ones in your head.

Also, this is album of the year so far. I just listened to it three times in a roe.

like in a pile of fish eggs, apparantly

So, if American Idiot was Blueberry Boat's embarassing less talented little brother, what would this album be?

Blueberry Boat is a floating turd of an album

Sounds like Big Country

is this actually true?

my real question is, is it better than american idiot? i'm sort of a green day stan, but that album mostly kinda bored me. (i like the single off this one.)

i think it's better than anything they've ever done, and maybe better than anything u2's ever done.

I'm surprised, but I agree with everything Whiney has said on this thread. Album of the year, among the best rock albums of the decade.

i basically love this album - 'act III' is amazing

whoa you guys are making me actually want to hear this

how the hell did the fiery furnaces get dragged into this though?

Huh. I gave it a couple of listens, and liked what I heard, but really couldn't imagine putting it on over "American Idiot." They sound impressively at ease with themselves, given the pressure that must have been on them to deliver, but they also don't sound as inspired as the last time out. It also feels a little generic in its parade of half-familiar deja vu riffs (BJ's vox aside). Not necessarily boring, just familiar.

(I expect it will grow on me, since it's def. solid enough otherwise to earn my patience.)

Blueberry Boat is a floating turd of an album

― gui lovato (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 9 May 2009 07:34 (Yesterday) Bookmark

dead to me

yea i had zero interest in this but dl'ed on a whim cuz of the raving itt and srsly could barely listen to it.

tho i will try to give it a chance & listen at work sometime this wk

All I'm going to say is, well... I'd love to give Billie Joe and those other two guys a 21st Century Beatdown.

ringtone cru--J0rdan, HOOS and me--seem to like it the most.

pretty sure its the nitty beats that are putting it over the top for me tbh

XD

Get one hobby

zing?

All these great reviews are making me think about listening to this. I'm not a huge Green Day fan but "Warning" has been in my head the past day or two, so...feeling tolerant!

And it's funny when I actually listen to BJ's voice - it's become one of those voices that so many lead singers in pop-punk and mainstream rock radio bands try to imitate that it's surreal recalling the prototype for all that has followed.

ok what the hell, even i am liking this

loving the new single. dexter's voice is always welcome in my ear canals!

i fuck w/ Dookie and Warning real heavy but basically hated American Idiot more than anything of the past 5 years, so i was really planning on totally ignoring/avoiding this album...kinda fucking with my head right now the way y'all are making me want to give it a chance.

if you like pop punk music idk how you couldnt like this. i hate pop punk music and i like this

loving the new single. dexter's voice is always welcome in my ear canals!

― chip dumstorf, Monday, May 11, 2009 7:40 PM (13 minutes ago)

my favorite parts of the songs are when the guitars are real heavy or mixed real loud because i hate the sounds of their voices for the most part

Maybe a better thread for this, but anyone else fuck w/Nimrod lately? Underrated?

ok im cooling a bit to this (i posted after hearing the first five songs or so, which were great), but this is still a good record. the first six songs and the last few are great, but the middle ain't doing it for me at the moment. at its best it's really good power pop, at its worst it's kinda like the decemberists.

billie joe armstrong is an awful vocalist though

except that the last act is by far the best part of the album

also you're an idiot

re billy joe vocals

except that the last act is by far the best part of the album

ok im cooling a bit to this (i posted after hearing the first five songs or so, which were great), but this is still a good record. the first six songs and the last few are great, but the middle ain't doing it for me at the moment. at its best it's really good power pop, at its worst it's kinda like the decemberists.

― some dude, don't make it dad (k3vin k.), Monday, May 11, 2009 9:51 PM (5 minutes ago)

the middle is good too

this is obv a bunch of times better than decemberists

that was mainly just a vocal comparison. as you know i really dont like emo/pop-punk vocals but this is def greater than the sum of its parts for me

there are so many parts

I don't know about this middle being weak. I think "Last of the American Girls" is one of the stand-outs on the album. And "Horseshoes and Handgrenades" is great too.

Maybe a better thread for this, but anyone else fuck w/Nimrod lately? Underrated?

― bear, bear, bear, Monday, May 11, 2009 7:58 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ok im cooling a bit to this (i posted after hearing the first five songs or so, which were great), but this is still a good record. the first six songs and the last few are great, but the middle ain't doing it for me at the moment. at its best it's really good power pop, at its worst it's kinda like the decemberists.

― some dude, don't make it dad (k3vin k.), Monday, May 11, 2009 9:51 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

billie joe armstrong is an awful vocalist though

― some dude, don't make it dad (k3vin k.), Monday, May 11, 2009 9:52 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

except that the last act is by far the best part of the album

― cumlords 2pac big please talk to this sucker (J0rdan S.), Monday, May 11, 2009 9:55 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i think the middle of this conversation is weak

http://www.danzfamily.com/archives/blogphotos/06/425-drew-baseball-1.jpg

wkiw

btw it appears as if the kid fouls the ball off, as evidenced by the fact that it falls to his feet

idk it's one of the first GIS results for "swing and a miss" and plus you have to assume that whoever is tossing it to him is going to be doing so softly and with a lot of arc

so far: "eh"

too long

but a few songs are pretty amazing, i'll probably come around

nimrod = lamest of their albums (excepting maybe the pre-dookie ones) because it wasn't sure what it wanted to be: pissed off punk or "mature" orchestral punk, twas like a failed prototype for am idiot/21st century bkdwn

Won't hear the new one until later today, but this is how I'd rank 'em:

Dookie
Warning
Insomniac
Kerplunk
American Idiot (tbh this would be higher if not for the overplaying factor)
39 Smoothed Out Slappy Hours
Nimrod

is this really coming out tomorrow?

Seems like it, all the big chain stores are advertising it that way.

also, jon, really all u need to do is

21st Century Breakdown
International Superhits
American Idiot

heard a few songs on their big syndicated radio special last night - u guys gotta be fucking kidding me

like, every year it seems like there's one album i listen to just to have more ammo when i argue with people who like it (previous years: 808s, In Rainbows, FureSex/LoveSounds). this may be that record for '09.

Don't drag In Rainbows into a list of good albums.

x-post to Some Dude

Aren't you a Pearl Jam fan? Why do you find Green Day's most recent efforts annoying but not Pearl Jam efforts? Eddie Vedder's vocals are more painful to listen to imho.

Pearl Jam's last 2-3 albums blew just as bad, if not worse

anyway apples and oranges, alt-rock institutions all wilt in their own unique ways

i saw mike dirnt in NYC yesterday he was eating a sandwich.

21st Century Snackdown

countdown to an inevitable Spinal Tap reference begins in 5...4....3...

the first six songs on this are so good. i love the hold steady-ass "whooaa-whoaaas" in "21st century breakdown" and maybe(?) "viva la gloria", and "christian's inferno" reminds me of "unsatisfied" by the replacements in that it's like 100% chorus and is awesome

i think i need an hr of uninteruppted listening time to really dig into this one.

youre gonna need at least 69 mins

Don't drag In Rainbows FutureSex/LoveSounds into a list of good albums.

Ah, that's more like it.

Don't drag In Rainbows FutureSex/LoveSounds and 808s into a list of good albums.

Don't drag and drop that quote for any more lame strikethrough gags.

anyone else fuck w/Nimrod lately? Underrated?

i'm in the (apparently extreme) minority of it being my favorite green day album. tight, taut, tough, tuneful, i'm sure i can think of some more alliterative adjectives. i even like the surf instrumental. and the 1-minute hardcore rant. mostly though it's just bam-bam-bam/hook-hook-hook. "scattered," "worry rock," "the grouch," "haushinka," "all the time," "hitchin a ride." "king for a day" is funny. and i guess if you can't get with "good riddance" you're harder-hearted than me. (a few weeks ago "scattered" popped up on the ipod and i listened 4 or 5 times in a row.)

and "uptight"! it's such a good album.

(sorry, carry on. i haven't heard the new one, can't join the opining.)

such a dope album

i'm not fuckin around

i'll rep for "worry rock" at least, that song described a lot of aspects of my life at around when Nimrod dropped

I like "The Static Age" and the one that bites Berlin's "Metro" and The Clash's "Police On My Back," but you'd think that at their ages they'd know more about women than what other songs have taught them.

wow there are a lot of candyass rewrites of "boulevard" on this

it's like an ulcer in my brain!!!

i say this sincerely, finally someone with some sense on this thread

whiney do you like styx

dreamiiiiing
i was only dreaaamiiiiing

Their "Last Night On Earth" is catchier than U2's, though, "Against All Odds" piano and all.

Their "Last Night On Earth" is catchier than U2's, though

i think this is the definition of faint praise

I got a really bad diseeeeaase
It's got me begging on my hands and kneeeees

i say this sincerely, finally someone with some sense on this thread

I want to be the minority
I don't need your authority
Down with the moral majority
'Cause I want to be the minority

has billie been taking lessons? his voice is just so pretty!

That Christgau line about Undercover is appropriate: "What do people hear in this murky, overblown, incoherent piece of shit?"

when are these dudes gonna make their "Mr. Roboto" already

KILROY
KILROY

what a boring band

If Styx had listened to the Clash and Stiff Little Fingers, yes, I would probably like them

I got a really bad diseeeeaase
It's got me begging on my hands and kneeeees

― da croupier, Friday, May 15, 2009 1:56 PM (1 hour ago)

no one ever said he was a good lyricist

the lyrics contribute to the melodrama aka they do their job

da croupier also forgets this is music for 15 year old kids

word though

i dunno, adults defending music made by adults against criticism from other adults on the grounds of "it's made for kids" is some real '06 ilm teenpop thread ish

Teenpop's argument was always that it wasn't just made for kids, not that it should get a pass because it was.

y'know it was wrong of me to even drop the t-word, nevermind

teenpop comes with a lot of baggage.

not heard this, liked american idiot pretty much...though find it sort of a bad sign (no offense to the goon cru) that the people defending it the most are the people that don't really like rock music that much.

da croupier also forgets this is music for 15 year old kids

you do realize you're talking to the Good Charlotte dude, right?

^i dont know if this is nec the case...jordan and whiney are both known to like plenty of rock music, and jordan's got a boner for a lot of pop-punk

xp m@tt

yeah we're all rockers here, don't get it twisted he1go

also if I'd forgotten that this music was for 15 years olds I WOULDN'T be surprised to see a grown adult call it the best album of Green Day's career and the year on his twitter

not really for 15 years old anyway so much as an album it hurts to imagine anyone over 15 taking seriously

Taking seriously /= enjoying it

so are you guys enjoying this the way i enjoy limp bizkit? why didn't you say so?

i mean put some "LOLs" in your posts or something

even shittiest green day would be preferable to limp bizkit

For me, I expect rock bands to do certain things and don't expect them to do other things. 21st Century Breakdown fulfills all my expectations perfectly. I'm not even sure what it would mean to listen to a rock band that was entirely "adult." I guess then I'd be listening to Animal Collective or something?

if you'd rather hear a punk go dennis deyoung than a turkey on steroids cry, that's fine, but I really think the latter is more entertaining. And "Pay me no mind/I've seen Fight Club about 28 times" is more evocative of 21st century teenage whatever than anything Billie Joe has written this decade

Also, this album sounds more mature to me than, say, Appetite for Destruction - which despite its rock brilliance was still juvenile in a lot of ways. So I'm not sure what's meant when someone says the album is made for 15-year-olds.

i think whiney means that he should be allowed to praise it to adults but that adults shouldn't complain that it sucks.

Also, I'm not sure this album is about being 15. I think it's more about being in your early twenties. It strikes me as an album about going for your first job, entering the machine, etc. "21st Century Breakdown" reminds me thematically a lot of "The River," tho without the very specific and much better writing of the latter (even if I think some lines on 21CB are great). "And for my nineteenth birthday I got a union card and a wedding coat," being re-evoked in "I am a nation, a worker, a pawn. / My debt to the status quo. / The scars on my hands are a means to an end. / It's all that I have to show." So maybe it's not breaking new intellectual ground on the alienation of being a worker, and having a "debt to the status quo." I mean, how many albums are even dealing with this experience?

most if not all punk ones, probably

i mean jesus i can't swear but i think that's what rise against and thursday and those guys are crying about. that and girls.

I listen to a lot of punk albums. Most of the ones that deal with this stuff aren't that musically interesting, catchy, hooky, etc. And the ones that are catchy and hooky don't deal with this stuff. Sometimes you get an exception, like Against Me, but their album didn't move a fraction of the amount of albums Green Day will. And I'm not sure I believe their last album is as good as this one.

Rise Against are pretty awful, IMHO. Thursday is great, but they're more interested in parsing religion/spirituality/divinity/transcendence. I love them to pieces (another of my favorite bands), but the socio-political experience is not their strongest area.

well it ain't green day's anymore either, judging from your quote

i think whiney means that he should be allowed to praise it to adults but that adults shouldn't complain that it sucks.

― da croupier, Friday, May 15, 2009 4:43 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Not that you can't criticize it, but saying the lyrics are simple and elemental I feel is missing the point. I had the same realization when I was pondering why Trent Reznor's lyrics suck so bad, but they still moved me deeply when I was 13.

I think Green Day made a Tonka Truck version of a Clash album.

what's your twitter, croup, i'll totally follow u, btw.

Sorry -- I didn't mean Thursday was trying and failing to articulate it. I meant they're not even particularly that interested in it. And both times I've spoken to Geoff, the conversation has been about a lot of things (physical geography, relationships, religion), but rarely about politics. I feel like listening to Green Day you can hear them trying to work through a lot of these things. And maybe they aren't pinpointing it perfectly in every line, but there's definitely an engagement with it.

It's kinda besides the point tho. I was trying to suggest that this isn't an album about fifteen years old. It's about being nineteen, twenty years, twenty-one years old. Particularly, w/r/t Green Day being a pop-punk band, it's about someone who grew up with Green Day coming to terms with the "adult world." And that's one of the reasons I find the lack of brilliant interrogation really well done. I think the album does a good job of evoking feeling confused, or overwhelmed (or alienated and disaffected), but without the ideology to fall back upon. It's vague and the radical sentiments are generally annihilative (lots of blowing things up references), mostly because I think it's recreating that experience. "You know that something's happening but you don't know what it is," happening in reverse.

"Not that you can't criticize it, but saying the lyrics are simple and elemental I feel is missing the point." I agree with this 100%, but not because I think it's intended for dumb 15 year olds who wouldn't appreciate better lyrics. More because I think simple and elemental lyrics do the job better than more complex lyrics could possibly.

god thursday is such garbage. loved ATDI but god they have so much to answer for.

xpost

it's sort of a molotov cocktail in someone's hand but they don't remember exactly why they lit it or where they should throw it

I think War All The Time and City By a Light Divided are basically perfect albums. But whatever, I don't expect most people on ILX to agree with a lot of my opinions when it comes to this kind of music. XP

"it's sort of a molotov cocktail in someone's hand but they don't remember exactly why they lit it or where they should throw it" YES

what's your twitter, croup, i'll totally follow u, btw.

i don't have one, but i do read yours, mostly enjoy it. Just think you've kind of fallen down a rabbit hole if your reasoning for rating it a classic is that it's vacuously pretentious and candyass and that's what 15 year olds need from music. tell me what YOU need/get out of the mawk and synth-piano pomp. By the logic you two are giving us, Saved By The Bell is a great show because one can imagine elementary schoolers finding it evocative of high school.

That doesn't sound anything like my argument for why it's classic.

i'm all for tonka truck clash, but Good Charlotte was a hell of a lot more zippy and specific in their class frustrations in 2002. This pomp and balladry seems pretty divorced from the clash, imo. your who/big country comparisons seem a lot more on point, but without a reason why someone without a vested interest in the youth of today having their own pomp would want to hear this crap.

i mean for better or worse, Good Charlotte made tracks I had to admit I found affecting, the way they were torn between MTV and Positive Force (before they went LA) got to me. I wasn't thinking about The Kids when I dug that stuff.

also this album is pretty ballady and bloated as fuck for a molotov

For what I'm getting out of it; I'm 24, married, trying to pay rent, trying to put myself through school, often feeling out of touch with politicians, and certainly feeling alienated by both my economic circumstances and my political circumstances. (Not trying to justify these feelings, but they are there.) And I've done plenty of reading (and writing) about how the mechanics of these things work. But I expect rock music (and pop culture in general) to work on a more unconscious, direct and immediate level. I feel like our pop culture should emerge from the culture like dreaming - and dreams aren't always well-thought out, and are often chaotic. Which describes this album. Look, I could go read No Logo and Manufacturing Consent and The Culture Industry, but while they give me the language to discuss a lot of these things, they don't recreate my experience at all. This album actually gives me catharsis.

(I realize, writing this, that I haven't done a lot of this explanatory music writing since the Teenpop thread was shutdown. So... whatever. Mock away if you'd like. This is what I'm hearing when I turn the album on. I don't have a pose involved; it just captures where I am right now in very elemental ways. Also - I'm sure I'm not speaking for Whiney here. He'll have to give his own reasons for why he likes it.)

I like the mawk and synth-piano pomp the best! I mean, i personal feel big, bright, dumb, triumphant choruses in general (i'll rep for the springsteen album too). It's so bubblegum that it's like an extreme in the same way a Napalm Death album is extreme. it's a rock record and a political record that's not afraid to use the most pop elements--huge hooks, glossy production, ham-handed sloganseering, three way harmonies--AS its weapon. It's like a trojan horse with nothing actually hidden inside

And it also appeals to me intellectually. I hear Brecht and Beckett in this album and I don't think I'm just reading it in. (We already know from "Misery" that Green Day knows Brecht.) So it's not just hitting me on an unconscious level, but I think there IS smart stuff in here. A lot of Endgame post-apocalyptic alienation.

okay mordy i'm going to bite and listen to this but brecht and shit? c'mon dawg.

Well, look. "Misery" is ripping off Alabama Song, right? And Warning shares thematic similarities with Rise and Fall of the City of Mahagonny. So it seems like a pretty obvious touchstone to me.

"longview" is about jerkin the gerkin

I don't even think Brecht is the be-all-end-all of smart writing. And if Billie Joe has a humanities degree I have no doubt he read Threepenny or whatever. But like, that's one reference that I think is pretty explicit. I'm more willing to be wrong about Beckett -- since other punk bands do that kind of end of civilization post-history rhetoric.

yeah see that's a lot more understandable and worthwhile a review than "the kids'll love it!" i like my trojan horses to have SOMETHING inside, and my rock to rock more (for this kind of "entering the machine" vibe I overwhelmingly prefer say Desaparecidos) but I can see the appeal of a big loud nothing with the right iconography.

x-post to whiney as i aint buying that smart stuff off of "the scars on my hands are a means to an end/they're all i have to show" and warning is a different album, dude.

Well, Viva La Gloria ( Little Girl ) has a lot of that similar stuff going on musically.

that desaparecidos album was dope and i was fully prepared to h8 on it.

I'm just trying to say, I don't think this is such a far-fetched argument. I know, "lol Green Day dsn't know Brecht!" but dudes are like 37 years old. I imagine they've picked up some culture over the years.

And da croupier, you haven't really responded to what I'm getting out of the album personally. And for me the intellectual stuff is the kicker, but only secondary to the more direct engagement.

dude if you can directly engage with billie joe doing shit poetry over piano intros that's super

Ya know dude, I'm like taking my time to try to explain to you why I like the album. The least you could do is read the fucking posts.

I can see the appeal of a big loud nothing with the right iconography.

This is pretty much when I get from it, except its more like a big, loud, "this-world-has-left-me-with-nothing" with the appropriate iconography.

croupiers gon' croup

what i wrote was a direct response to this:

For what I'm getting out of it; I'm 24, married, trying to pay rent, trying to put myself through school, often feeling out of touch with politicians, and certainly feeling alienated by both my economic circumstances and my political circumstances. (Not trying to justify these feelings, but they are there.) And I've done plenty of reading (and writing) about how the mechanics of these things work. But I expect rock music (and pop culture in general) to work on a more unconscious, direct and immediate level. I feel like our pop culture should emerge from the culture like dreaming - and dreams aren't always well-thought out, and are often chaotic. Which describes this album. Look, I could go read No Logo and Manufacturing Consent and The Culture Industry, but while they give me the language to discuss a lot of these things, they don't recreate my experience at all. This album actually gives me catharsis.

So how does dude if you can directly engage with billie joe doing shit poetry over piano intros that's super respond to that at all? Obviously I a) don't think it's just shit poetry over piano intros, and b) i'm specifically not looking for anything smarter from a rock album.

i mean you're saying you want things to work on an "unconscious" AND "direct" level. And I just hear shitty poetry over candy-ass arena pomp. I referenced the bands I think do this "entering the machine" vibe better, and acknowledged i like a little more meat in the lyrics and less fat on the sound. What do you want me to say?

what is your favorite rock album of 2009, croup

You mean when you mentioned Rise Against and Thursday?

no, i praised desaparecidos and 2002-era good charlotte. I referenced those emoids when you asked what other bands are chronicling the "experience."

And my favorite rock album of 2009 is probably Art Brut so far, but I ain't heard many in full.

and acknowledged i like a little more meat in the lyrics and less fat on the sound

I think this is fair, btw. I'm just not looking for that in rock music. I get plenty of intellectual engagement already. When I want my brain tickled, I read stuff for my classes.

I like that album too fwiw. Future Of The Left is better tho

art brut: turning the old "rock critics are failed musicians" adage on its head

I'll check them out, really haven't had my ear to the rail these days.

you heard the new one, matt? The first left me totally cold and I only liked a few on the second but this one is pretty damn loose and amped.

w/r/t Good Charlotte, this is just personal opinion, I guess, but I never found their class-based stuff believable at all. There was too much cross-over between class strife and like highschool jocks v. non-jocks stuff. Especially on something like "Anthem," where it went from "'Go to college, a university, get a real job,' /
That's what they said to me," to "This is the anthem / throw all your hands up!" Like, if you're really beaten down, it's a bit incongruous with starting the wave.

Also, GC became ridiculously reactionary and misogynistic later on. "I got a model, 26/But she stays in her place." on the last album, or even "Girls don't like boys/Girls like cars and money." from the same one as "Anthem."

I like the DC Comics + Chocolate Milk song on that Art Brut album.

you heard the new one, matt? The first left me totally cold and I only liked a few on the second but this one is pretty damn loose and amped.

― da croupier, Friday, May 15, 2009 9:36 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

heard that replacements song and the U2 diss song, perhaps gave me the incorrect impression that every song was some kinda LOL rock in-joke?

(i haven't heard future of the left yet but i would be shocked if i didn't love it to death)

(not that anyone's asking but my fav rock album of the year so far is "Mother of Curses" by D. Rider)

This thread hit I PWN, so I'm done. It's been fun tho guys. I hope you like the album, M@tt.

yeah GC went Cali fast, but at least on a few songs ("Keep Your Hands Off My Girl," "I Don't Wanna Be In Love," "Break Apart Her Heart") they make their new world and issues sound nightmarish - and in an infinitely more specific way than most emosogynists.

The cartoony contradictions in their early stuff don't bother me, though. I like when a band can careen from emotion to emotion with full detail. Like Warrant's first album, where one second they're cooing about how they'll always be there for a lonely girl and then on the next they're yelling about all the hookers in the bathroom. Sometimes you're mad, sometimes you're sad, sometimes you're starting the wave. It can seem disingenuous, but I believe THEY believe it on a song-by-song basis. With Green Day I can't even tell what the fuck they're on about other than being BIG.

? "I PWN"?

thx mang i predict i will think this album is okay!

rolling enlightening music discussion thread

xgau's review of american idiot sums up a lot of crap that I really hoped Green Day would move on from for the next album, but no dice:

If you're wondering what this concept album means, don't labor over the lyric booklet. As Billie Joe knows even if he doesn't come out and say it--he doesn't come out and say lots of obvious stuff--this is a visual culture. So examine the cover. That red grenade in the upraised fist? It's also a heart--a bleeding heart. Which he heaves as if it'll explode, only it won't, because he doesn't have what it takes to pull the pin. The emotional travails of two clueless punks--one passive, one aggressive, both projections of the auteur--stand in for the sociopolitical content that the vague references to Bush, Schwarzenegger, and war (not any special war, just war) are thought to indicate. There's no economics, no race, hardly any compassion. Joe name-checks America as if his hometown of Berkeley was in the middle of it, then name-checks Jesus as if he's never met anyone who's attended church. And to lend his maunderings rock grandeur, he ties them together with devices that sunk under their own weight back when the Who invented them.

man there are so many meta boards now

lol posting an xgau review was unnecessary/very much in character, my apologies

My problem with this album, having accepted the rubbish vague sloganeering on the last album, is how incredibly dull the production is. It should feel like they actually care, it should smack you right in the face- 'this is important, pay fucking attention' but instead it just sounds so lifeless. It's not like there is anything wrong with the arrangements per se (although at this point in their career I do find myself wishing they'd head back in the direction they took with Warning) but Butch Vig has just made it all sound so clean and samey.

yeah it's a shame, major label rock bands are making the worst sounding albums in all of human history right now

after one listen, i can say that the middle bit is what grabbed me the most. i'm having trouble getting into it any further than that, though. the pomp is a bit off-putting.

The Who have been mentioned here twice already.. Seems to me like Green Day justifies their descent into bloated boredom by considering it parallel to the progression that was taken by The Who..

Is Green Day now striving for arena rock? That word "arena" has appeared here twice now also..

They were on Saturday Night Live last night. Gonna be on Colbert and Letterman and others

i enjoy a good deal of this album just fine but i can live without ever seeing them perform live again

Obviously their best album ever. Gotta love those anthemic ballads, and there are more of them here than ever before.

I would add that they might have moved on lyrically though. Bush is not in office anymore, and I am pretty sure these lyrics aren't their opinions on Obama.

Jess Harvell's Pfork review is scarily OTM:

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/13045-21st-century-breakdown

yeah, i kind of agree

yeah dude murdered it

honestly if i didn't know better I wouldn't even believe Green Day's new stuff had the same rhythm section as on their early hits, they used to be so rubbery and hyper...in an alternate universe where Dookie only went gold and everything since then was a flop, 21st Century Breakdown would be the shitty Billie Joe solo album released on Yep Roc and rightfully ignored by the world.

i was talking to jordan last night about that review and i basically agree with a lot of what jess slams them for, except i think there are a handful of very, very good songs that manage to make it a worthwile (though overlong/overblown) listen

not to harp on this since i already repped for it months ago upthread, but any of y'all listen to the Foxboro Hottubs album?

I pretty much love 17 out of 18 of these songs

.though find it sort of a bad sign (no offense to the goon cru) that the people defending it the most are the people that don't really like rock music that much.

I find it a bad sign that people that DO really like rock music think Wilco is an interesting band

uncle tupelo is dope imo

uncle tuppelo

bbtweedy

Tuppence (The Album)

in the vv review of the new album the writer uses the words "boring" and "tuppence" no less than 3 times

VV = ?

village voice

lol?

you are confused

tbh

i'm pretty sure i wrote the VV review of the new Green Day album?

i'm pretty sure it was about a pomeranian

(is probably just confused about what we're talking about)

http://www.wolfpack10.com/tuppence/tupp-reflect.gif
know your enemy

Next week Rock Band 2 is releasing a 3-pack of songs from 21stCB.

i believe "green day" is now the only band name my 4-yr-old son knows. mostly he just loves "know your enemy" and "christian's inferno." he has no idea what the words are, but he uses a cardboard toilet-paper tube as a microphone and sort of mouths along.

i like this album a lot more than american idiot. it's still a little overblown, but even their gypsy-rock shit is better than, say, the decemberists'. and i guess it means something that their catalog is deep enough that now they can just rip off themselves ("static age" is a straight rewrite of "church on sunday" -- but it improves on it). anyway, lots of fun. my sister and brother are going to see them later this month, and i'm jealous.

i haven't figured out a way to weasel into the NYC shows because someone who shall remain nameless pitched the voice before me! I want to see this tour so bad!

my sister hit the online scalpers for the d.c. show and spent some very large amount of money. she's 38 and i think green day is the only band since springsteen that she would have done that for.

i thought they were supposed to play 21st Century Breakdown in its entirety on this tour. Kind of sad they are not

they did that in the warm-up shows, didn't they?

well i missed those :(

i haven't figured out a way to weasel into the NYC shows because someone who shall remain nameless pitched the voice before me! I want to see this tour so bad!

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Tuesday, July 7, 2009 1:36 AM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark

i think forks has some tips 4 u

When you have a major label record deal, win Grammies, get endorsement deals from guitar makers and headline shows at the Enormodome, you're not raging against the machine... you ARE the machine.

Why do people like this band, again?

uncle tupelo was fucking raging live and remain a great band.

whiney don't call me out for liking dad rock. liking dad rock is part of who i am. i can't change.

Wrong thread, M@tt...

XXP OMG. You're right! Green Day aren't rebels at all. I don't see how I could have missed that... I don't like this band anymore!

no he quoted me here!!

.though find it sort of a bad sign (no offense to the goon cru) that the people defending it the most are the people that don't really like rock music that much.

I find it a bad sign that people that DO really like rock music think Wilco is an interesting band

― cr33p in the keller (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, July 7, 2009 6:19 AM (6 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

also:
gear likes this album

the defense rests.

like i LOVE the idea of no-cal gilman st. knuckleheadz doing a mall punk "quick one while he's away" but the second time around feels way too forced and no inspiration.

ilxor i hate nu-GD and their vague "political lyrics" as much as anyone but man that was a weak-ass takedown

"political" chixie dicks is even worse though

man that was a weak-ass takedown

Yeah no worries, I wasn't trying to write a thesis on it. Just making a quick comment.

you're not making a quick comment...you ARE the quick comment

one...tweenty one guuu-eee-uuuuuuuuns!!

wonder what '94 billie would think of the raccoon eye make-up

So has this album been very successful? Nothing close to the last one right? Genuine question, I haven't been following along.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_Century_Breakdown#Chart_performance

I don't know how recent that is, tho.

it's funny how a lot of my friends think this album is some flop that everyone's ignoring as opposed to realizing it's easier to live in a shell where nothing happens if it didn't occur in the pfork/stereogum/idolator bubble now than in 2004

big modern rock blockbusters play out over the course of a year anyway -- if in a few months radio isn't touching the 3rd single and the sales aren't anywhere near the last Linkin Park album or whatever, then and only then can it be declared even a 'relative' failure

i mean every GD or RHCP album makes a mint, if you wanna knock on one for making a smaller mint than American Idiot or Californication that's still a pretty hollow victory

can we knock them for sucking?

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/128343885245156250plztostoppok.jpg

hey if you can come back to reaffirm you love all but one of the tracks, i can come back to reaffirm lol you need to buy some styx it's faster

i didn't revive this to say i hate 16 of the 17 songs

nooooo fuuuuutuuuree

more like killjoy was here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1410000/images/_1411586_rik.jpg

aww how come you can hate on wilco here but i can't make jokes about how embarrassing this album is for the planet

if "joy" actually describes the feeling this album gives you then i will take your word for it

i mean if the children need incoherent "political" pomp you wonder how they got through 1995 with just really good pop-punk

you're not making a quick comment...you ARE the quick comment

― Burt's SBs (some dude), Monday, July 13, 2009 7:19 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

lol

my version of this album is awesome

whiney what is the song you don't love?

I'm still enjoying this a great deal. It is kind of like an alt-rock Styx, which I have no problem with.

was v surprised when listening through their discography that i like this record even more than when it came out. "american idiot but even bigger" shouldn't work at all yet

this album still sucks

https://www.stereogum.com/2234349/green-day-are-selling-a-nimrod-shirt-featuring-donald-trumps-mugshot/news/