Everything But The Girl Album Poll

i picked love not money. because it is my favorite everything but the girl album. plus, it's the only everything but the girl album that i know all the words to. which means there are REALLY scary singalong sessions at my house. unless you find the idea of a probably drunk 6 foot tall 220 pound dirtbag from the woods of connecticut singing along to everything but the girl alone and at the top of his lungs somehow endearing.

after that though: (cheating cuz i would pick thorn cherry red ep next) then eden and then baby the stars shine tonight and then idlewild and then the acoustic thing.

There ain't a damn thing here better than the first album. Never will be ever.

A lot of nice things to say about the new style on "Walking Wounded", but "Eden" is too great not to vote for. They never really managed to follow it up though, so a change in style may have been a wise move anyway.

I've never heard Eden! I guess I should.

It occurs to me Eden has a sortof Smiths-ish sound to it. I always had the U.S. version though where they swapped a few tracks with the UK version, which in hindsight is really irritating.

walking wounded or temperamental, innit?

It occurs to me Eden has a sortof Smiths-ish sound to it.

To me, it sounds much like early Aztec Camera, only with a slight jazz element added.

Eden, easily. There were so many good British jazz/pop records in 83/84 (Carmel, early Style Council, etc.) before 80s-style production and synths took over. I listened to Eden and Idlewild back-to-back not too long ago, and the later was painful in its production (except for the fantastic "Apron Strings" at the ened).

I'm very fond of Idlewild despite the production and the nice-but-not-my-thing Danny Whitten cover. Someone on the other EBTG thread rightly complimented Tracy Thorn for writing lyrics to and for other women -- these small but emphatic gestures of solidarity. "Blue Moon Rose" is in that category. And "Oxford Street" is just lovely.

I did like Walking Wounded when it came out, but just got bored of it quickly or something. It was indeed a nice new direction for them.

I mean, I say that, but what really happened was Walking Wounded was the first one I bought of them since Baby The Stars Shine Bright (not sure why it's mistitled in this poll). I heard someone rep for Amplified Heart some years ago, though. God I'd love to hear some of Baby The Stars Shine Bright again. "Don't Leave Me Behind"!!! WOW I forgot about this stuff. I need to hear "Kid" again, too. Shit I've got my work cut out for me.

Amplified Heart has sharp songs.

Oh! Also I ended up reading that Ben Watt book because some friend I had a couple years ago happened to lend it to me. I wasn't really jonesing to read it, but it was a very cool book, I was surprised.

What do you mean by sharp songs?

I am voting for Amplified Heart, though it and Walking Wounded are the only ones I know. I joined the bandwagon with "Missing" (and "Protection"). "25th December" is terrific; Richard Thompson's guitar puts chills up my spine. And "We Walk the Same Line" is excellent too.

Also I didn't mean to discount the jazzy nature of Eden when I said the album was "Smithsian". But I'm a sucker for early Style Council & Sade, so... Hell, I really wish there had been MORE of that kind of stuff going on back then.

amplified heart is close to perfect, from the songs and mood right down to each production element.

"Amplified Heart" is also up there. That is, for me "Eden" is in a league of its own, but the last three were all rather strong.

I have yet to hear #s 2 and 3 though. I would guess they might be good stuff when I love the debut.

There's one album kind of missing here, the self-titled U.S. release, with half the same songs as Eden and half different ones:
http://cover6.cduniverse.com/MuzeAudioArt/100/100702.jpg

I know damnit! Don't I know it! ARRRRGH I pulled it out on LP today but still haven't downloaded the damn Eden original UK LP yet. I used to have it on cassette but never could seem to warm to the tracks on that that were missing from the U.S. release. Also I think it's worth noting that I had this U.S. version on both cassette and LP. In fact, I think I've owned the LP twice now. Just incase anyone were handing out bonus points for stuff like that.

"I have yet to hear #s 2 and 3 though. I would guess they might be good stuff when I love the debut."

wait, you've never heard love not money?????? one of the greatest albums of the 80's, geir!

That's right, Scott! "This Love Not For Sale"! I haven't heard this in fucking EONS. Thanks ILM!!!!!!

I bet that song would put goose pimples on Paul Weller's flesh with jealousy.

I voted "Eden," which is slightly different from the S/T american debut. 'easy as sin' on the american version is my favorite song of theirs. love the first two albums in general.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Yay Eden! I didn't know this poll was gonna end tonight, but ended up playing Eden on the bus today anyway. I was trying to come to a conclusion about the songs that got left off the US version and vice versa, and I still think the US version does a magnificent job of culling the most memorable tracks on the UK version, aside from "I Must Confess" & "Bittersweet". My only complaint with the US version is the tacking on "Native Land" & "Riverbed Dry" at the end. Not only are they of a lesser quality than the rest of the songs, but they have a different sound to them and feel incongruous on there. And hell, I didn't realize the lovely "Easy As Sin" didn't make it on the UK version, that's terrible! So basically you have to have both of the damn things or make sure you've downloaded all the tracks!

Temperamental -- mmmm

Baby, The Stars Shine Bright is better than I thought

would have voted 1984 s/t or Love Not Money.
favorite song: Easy As Sin

boy, is Worldwide good! It's gotten flak for its 1991-era production, but the melodies are gorgeous, the songs fully written, and Watt has never sung better on record.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1__auymS9OA

1988 Idlewild 0

:|

i turn to walking wounded often, also a GOAT album cover

Br@d, you'd like Worldwide if you love Idlewild: it's a Technicolor representation of that acoustic sound.

EBTG mean so much to me that should anything happen to Thorn or Watt I'd mourn them like I would Madonna or Ferry.

yeah i was gonna say my love of idlewild probably proved that i'm here for ebtg records that've gotten flak for their production, i'll check out worldwide soon

I think we now need a poll for Tracey Thorn’s THREE volumes of memoirs. She’s rivaling Peter Hook at this point

The first one is SO sharp.

i love ebtg, but worldwide is a stinker.

i would've voted idlewild.

worldwide is great. "old friends" is so good

The lack of love for Idlewild is indeed disgraceful, so:

Everything But the Girl - Idlewild (1988)

i love ebtg, but worldwide is a stinker.

i would've voted idlewild.

― Totally different head. Totally. (Austin), Tuesday, August 18, 2020 11:47 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

worldwide is great. "old friends" is so good

― Vapor waif (uptown churl), Tuesday, August 18, 2020

Heh. I was wrong:

Everything But The Girl Album Poll

1990 The Language of Life 0

:|

I've had "Frozen River" stuck in my head since August 2020.

can we talk about the language of life though???? perfectly recorded sophistipop

"Driving" and its remixes are fabulous. "The Road," "My Baby Don't Love Me," "Get Back Together" (that solo!), and "Imagining America" too. It's got some dull things that remind me of the Najee and Hiroshima-esque stuff my dad foisted on me in the car.

lol i was just about to bring up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzY01LLo3lo

i think this is my favorite EBTG album so far but in another way they're all my favorite. this just kinda nails how crisp and sharp the city looks after you walk out of a smoke-filled lounge at night

ha -- that's what I imagine with Temperamental but with a slight nip in the air

Have you read Thorn's memoir? She sounds bemused years later by the cost of the studio musicians and being slotted into New Adult Contemporary, despite the affection deejays had for "Driving."

i haven't yet, her books have been on my list for ages

omg worldwide

"old friends" is like minimalist adult-contemporary, remarkable

wait till ya get to "Talk to Me Like the Sea."

alfred you already know this is my highest compliment, but wow worldwide is like ebtg's heart in motion

get to "Frozen River" first

i have! it’s so gorgeous

A song that sounds like the album sleeve.

I'm very fond of Idlewild despite the production and the nice-but-not-my-thing Danny Whitten cover. Someone on the other EBTG thread rightly complimented Tracy Thorn for writing lyrics to and for other women -- these small but emphatic gestures of solidarity. "Blue Moon Rose" is in that category. And "Oxford Street" is just lovely.

― The Screaming Lobster of Challops (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, March 7, 2009 This makes me think of my Top Ten pick Record, which unselfconsciously takes as a given the need to think out loud, to confide, in a way not too navelgazey, self-absorbed (some singer-songwriters cam make me wonder, "Whatta they need me for?"
Will have to check her books, also ETBTG albums, having only heard a few singles, back in the day.

worldwide and language of life are missteps by this band and anyone else who made records like it.

for that sort of big budget overproduced and "schlocky to the point of detriment" thing by this school of bands, aztec camera's dreamland is far superior and still a complete disappointment of an album.

nothing but respect for ben and tracey —i would rate them as an alltime favorite— but ebtg's catalogue began with an immediate slew of highlights, hit a deep and cheesy valley of disappointment, and then careened ever so consistently back up to the heights of their early records (with a completely different vibe, obvs).

i will never be convinced otherwise and i am suspicious of anyone who tries to push a different narrative.

I'm terribly sorry to disappoint you. Keep your suspicions high and your stubbornness reaching for the stars.

btw the albums before TLOF are as uneven, i.e. three or four tuneful or attractively sung non-entities per album

be suspicious of me i don't give a shit. the songcraft fucking sings

Plus, what makes those albums' arrangements "schlock" and the 1984-1988 stuff okay?

nothing but respect for ben and tracey —i would rate them as an alltime favorite—

― the beginning of the end of discourse. (Austin), Tuesday, November 16, 2021 11:42 AM

yeah i know, you're disrespecting us instead lol

i also do not understand singling out language of life which sounds to my ears like a refinement of idlewild

mid period EBTG is my favorite too! it has a nice sort of end-of-history post coldwar anomie that suits the band. 'idlewild' is the best. some clunkers on 'language' and 'worldwide' admittedly

in any event 'tears all over town', 'old friends', 'talk to me ...', 'driving' all slap

hold up, wait a minute, "take me" is a womack & womack song????

the language of life is the best album ever

no disrespect intended. i can be suspicious of someone and still respect what they have to say.

it's just puzzling because idlewild sounds like an actual record that was made by people who cared about what it sounded like, while everything that followed (until amplified heart) sounds like the coked out producer making sure all of his best bud sessions players (who are all amazing musicians, btw) get in on the action. the term "overproduced" was created for that kind of music. it's nightmarish vaporwave twenty years before the fact. deeply unsettling and creepily contrived music.

to bring aztec camera back into the discussion, i feel the same way about his post-knife albums (he also worked briefly with tommy lipuma, who was heavily involved on the language of life). it's very forced music and i just don't buy it.

(despite my militant stance here, i do like songs from this period and i will concede that "driving" is easily one of their best songs and a mini-masterpiece, of sorts. i have to apologize; i have been experiencing more frequent dissociative episodes and sometimes i say things a little more aggressively than the situation calls for while in those moments. sorry if i upset anyone. certainly not my intent. ebtg rules. aztec camera rules. tommy lipuma doesn't, but that's okay too. anyway.)

I happen to love the Dreamland album by Aztec Camera. It's probably my favorite AC album. It's definitely polished and schmaltzy, but i like it.

it's just puzzling because idlewild sounds like an actual record that was made by people who cared about what it sounded like, while everything that followed (until amplified heart) sounds like the coked out producer making sure all of his best bud sessions players (who are all amazing musicians, btw) get in on the action

Austin, I like you, but, with respect, this is the review I'd read in AllMusic guides in the late '90s by kids flummoxed by the idea of studio rock production. What makes you think Thorn-Watt weren't in charge and didn't get what they wanted?

I own Aztec Camera's Love, also produced by the fabulously named Tommy LiPuma: same sound, different chords and sounds.

Ok

I missed this but would have voted for Amplified Heart

Because I am basic

Sry

amplified heart is an amazing album

still sounds like no other '90s album: a John Martyn or Richard Thompson album with bossa nova influences but with space.

I finally spent time (in a romantic situation, too) with Amplified Heart, after only hearing “Missing” and “Single” all too much in coffee shops and clothing stores for many years. Definitely exceeded my expectations of a superfan of their earliest albums. Had Acoustic on cassette and liked that a lot as well, am ready to try out the other mid-period ones again now that they have some age on them.

Troubled Mind is a banger imo

That's the one I had in mind.

The Language of Life also works well with Julia Fordham's Porcelain, out around the same time.

amplified heart is an amazing album

― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Thursday, November 18, 2021 11:49 AM

one thing we can all agree on. i often think of it as their best.

still sounds like no other '90s album: a John Martyn or Richard Thompson album with bossa nova influences but with space.

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 18 November 2021 19:53 (three days ago) link

Not to take away from your point, but Stina Nordenstam’s ‘And She Closed Her Eyes’ wants a word.

This thread led me to discover deluxe editions of most EBTG albums on Spotify. Love hearing the home demos of the Eden tracks after knowing the album versions by heart, just starting to get into the demos and remixes on the mid/later albums.

when all’s well
my love is like cathedral bells

impossible to rank their albums bc they’re all so good

the language of life
temperamental
amplified heart
walking wounded
idlewild
love not money
baby the stars shine bright
eden

sorry 2 eden-heads

worldwide is between idlewild and love not money

Austin, I like you, but, with respect, this is the review I'd read in AllMusic guides in the late '90s by kids flummoxed by the idea of studio rock production. What makes you think Thorn-Watt weren't in charge and didn't get what they wanted?

I own Aztec Camera's Love, also produced by the fabulously named Tommy LiPuma: same sound, different chords and sounds.

― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, November 18, 2021 11:39 AM

thanks, i like you too.

but i do hear it as:

deeply unsettling and creepily contrived music.

it's overproduced. the underwhelming calibre of the songs doesn't match the uber glossy production. by being too cohesive, it ends up not being cohesive at all. it sounds unnatural and OFF. if such a thing as "so bad it's good" exists, then surely the inverse can also apply.

i also own and know love (the aztec camera album, not the human emotion) quite well — because for some reason i kept listening to these kinds of albums, looking for something that's obviously not there. always feel like watching american psycho afterwords.

("killermont street" and "somewhere in my heart" admittedly still decent though.)

the language of life
temperamental
amplified heart
walking wounded
idlewild
love not money
baby the stars shine bright
eden

sorry 2 eden-heads

― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson)

The last four correctly placed.

no worldwide on that list huh?

i'll just assume it's not there because it's so forgettable.

=)

Walking Wounded
Amplified Heart
Temperamental
Worldwide
Idlewild
The Language of Life
Baby The Stars...
Love Not Money
Eden

i wont countenance the idlewild disrespect. easily top 3 for me, so many hooks. although you can destroy 'caruso'

for me the highlights of the mid-period -- 'driving', 'old friends', 'talk to me like the sea', 'tears all over town' -- meld the sort of anesthetized blank sheen criticized by austin with a deeply felt humanity. the combo is very evocative of the brief, forgotten cultural moment between 80s cold war jitters and 90s techno-paranoia and its very much my thing ...

i just think it's awesome —and definitely agree with brad's sentiment that they have so many absolutely great albums— that i legitimately can't stand some of their material, but i also can't imagine not ever loving other material.

like i can't narrow it down and pick my a #1 album for them. it's just too difficult.

(candidates would be eden, amplified heart, idlewild, and tempramental)

what about the pre-ebtg "solo" material? any love for that stuff?

(i happen to prefer north marine drive and a distant shore over at least —**ahem**— a few ebtg albums. they're very sparse and nice coffee shop jangle.)

A Distant Shore, Love and Its Opposite, and Record rule.

agreed. in terms of non-band recordings, i prefer tracey's output. ben's more recent albums have been okay, but very mor middle aged rock. some good songs scattered throughout for sure.

i used to play a cover of "small town girl." it's one of the first songs i learned on guitar.

uptown churl otm about the way the production works with the songcraft in the mid-period. such tremendous longing expressed with expert finesse, emotions blushing through frosted glass + unimpeachable michael brecker sax solos. and, like, again, the songs are so good, they don’t get bad just bc they shine like linoleum

i find that people think there is a line that jazz-pop or sophistipop crossed where it becomes as unbearably cheesy as smooth jazz or whatever but ime this line is so subjective as to be practically imaginary. give me that hiroshima sound where each instrument sounds like a raindrop reflected in glass, i love it, it’s beautiful

What I love about Worldwide is how it sounds like demos for an album that might become The Language of Life.

what i like about worldwide is how it's sometimes forgotten.

=)

(okay, i'll stop now.)

Revisiting Eden this week, having learned this songs by heart from their self-titled US album at age 16 or so, it struck me for the first time how most of these songs are about emotional and/or physical abuse. The albums after this one have the freedom of someone who has left those situations to make their own life.

As far as early albums, would also add the two Marine Girls albums, especially Tracey's songs ("Tonight?" and others).

Been hanging out this week with the deluxe editions of Amplified Heart and Walking Wounded thanks to this thread. Had previously gotten off the bus after Idlewild and will give the mid-period albums a shot soon.

Also revisiting these albums due to the thread. Had forgotten how much I liked You Lift Me Up, and Get Back Together has been stuck in my head all week. Would like to review all their albums to see if The Language of Life's back and forth interplay is the same over the catalog. Seems very pronounced, and a joy. I'd remembered their catalog being one or the other taking lead vocals.

the language of life is just the best album ever made

My baby don't love me.
Anymore.

don't let the grass grow under your feet
the sands of time keep running

for now at last i'm down on the street
with the engine running

Just thought you’d like to know that Ben and I have made a new Everything But The Girl album. It’ll be out next spring 😍@ben_watt@ebtg

— Tracey Thorn (@tracey_thorn) November 2, 2022

personally dying

I've missed them
like the deserts etc

Made my morning sunnier! Thanks!

😊

Only just found out how good Lullaby of Clubland is.

I always liked the cover of Love Not Money.

Only just found out how good Lullaby of Clubland is.

― piscesx,

a sad earworm is hard

“Lullaby of Clubland” feels like a much bigger hit/anthem then it ever was - like, dropping it in the middle of a club set should have the same “wheeling out a classic” vibe as dropping “The Future of the Future” would.

That song acquired a life of its own the moment the album dropped. Everyone I know who bought the album loved "Song 8"

!

wonder what it's going to sound like

Is there any survey of critical appraisal of Ben Watt’s post-EBTG career in dance music? Around 1999 I was getting into both UK progressive house and IDM, and by comparison I found the timbres and flow of the particular tunes that Watts had chosen to take up, clumsy and plodding. Was my disappointment shared, or were people really moved by his new thing?

His 'Buzzin Fly' label and house adventures were very basic and plain to me, but it was very popular. His more recent solo stuff has been great but only so much acoustic guitar I can take. Hopefully this album is fully electronic but i'm going to guess it will be a mix of electronic and acoustic sounds, after all, the future of the future still contains the past.

god temperamental is so fucking awesome

otm

I played the video for Five Fathoms on repeat during the Covid lockdown. It was a beautiful reminder of the city nightlife we were missing.

Ok, nearly there now! Really excited to tell you that the new Everything But The Girl single is out tomorrow - it's called "Nothing Left To Lose" and you can hear it for the first time on @laurenlaverne's show on @BBC6Music - listen in from 8.30am GMT 😍🔥🍾

— Tracey Thorn (@tracey_thorn) January 9, 2023

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh wow, return of an old friend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOF2pjm9_IE

"worth the wait, sounds great" sez my sister (had to text her first thing). i agree!

great video now, too

I love her smokey voice.

Her voice has changed, though this is to be expected after such a long time - 24 years since the last album. It sounds deeper (in more ways than one).

sorry i'm this guy-

funny that all it takes is one classic band releasing something new to remind me how shit most other music is.

way too early in the year for such a definitive banger.

kiss me while the world decays.

p sure ben + tracey live on this street

https://i.imgur.com/NOp1ZaQ.jpeg

Wow this sounds great! Her voice has changed slightly - yeah a bit deeper - but I actually think it sounds better.

when her voice first hit, i have to admit i was a taken aback. it's changed a lot, even since record - but that was over 4 years ago (unbelievably!).

but she sounds absolutely beautiful on this. my god.

Perfect return. So classy and understated. Can't wait for the album.

Awesome.

I love it.

wanted to sing "tessio" over this as it played which means it's about as good as music can be

well i can't listening to anything but everything but the girl today

love that charles hayward plays drums on eden

Love the new single, it’s like the pop song each member of The XX has been trying to make for 10 years

I played their Back to Mine mix last night and when Stars All Seem To Weep came on I thought it sounded so much like EBTG, and in particular, Hatfield 1980 and the Temperamental album. I've just gone to look at the details on The Stars All Seem to Weep and it appears Ben Watt is credited with 'Beats', so yeah, explains why it sounds so much like EBTG.

New songs is fantastic, had it on repeat for about half an hour this morning.

This is a nice surprise

it's pretty good but it's funny that it sounds like what they would have made about a decade ago if they'd never gone away

Love it. Tracey’s voice has evolved. I’m not sure I would have recognized her if I just heard the “kiss me while the world decays” bit. We’ve waited 24 years but they could hurry up already with the whole album.

I'm v impressed.

I wasn't familiar with the band at all, but one week was all I needed to listen to Amplified Heart, Eden, Temperamental, and Walking Wounded. Easy quality listening. Now I have the missing link between Bossa Nova and Roisin Murphy. With a little bit of Sade too.

speaking of bossa nova: beautiful mid-90s live version of Corcovado recorded for Red Hot & Rio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA8Pv_gTjLg

approximately 30 seconds into that new single i realised this will win the '23 albums poll, and there's nothing any of us can do about it

(i like it tbf! i wouldn't have said that if i didn't)

(but it does tick every single ILM box in triplicate lol)

Saw the video for the new song. The cynic in me wants to call out EBTG for using these young people in the video, as if to conceal the fact that the artists themselves are in their seventh decade.

Shoot a fan edit and move the setting to a retirement home

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEK6U2nRO24

lol are they allowed to be doing this???

LET ME IN

nice

i like it even more than "nothing left to lose" and when it gets to the reprise of "all the stars aligning, shimmering shining" ... okay, yeah. they clearly did.

Not as keen on this one so far but NLTL was great.

And I'm sittin', sittin' at the top of the stairs
And you're cryin' out on the towpath by the river
With all the swans and all the people walking by

And all of a sudden I'm stuck with an urge to unlock a door
With a key that's too big for my hands
And I drop it, and it falls at your feet
Come on, come on, it's there at your feet

and I neeeveeeerrr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo9b4buZCNo

holy shit her deepening voice suits a piano ballad as much as it does the dance tracks.

Wow that’s an awesome tune her new voice is perfect

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/mar/10/everything-but-the-girl-on-their-unlikely-return-this-life-came-into-our-music-we-didnt-have-control-over-it

this is a good read too

On Sunday, the release date of Eden in 1984 will be as close to the end of World War II as it is to the present date.

"Run a Red Light" is fantastic. So from that Guardian article where they talk about using autotune to distort her voice, is that why it sounds so much deeper than it ever has? I don't know if I've ever heard it used to this effect.

her voice has just deepened a lot with age, it was pretty deep on her last solo album too

I was thinking her Christmas album was fairly recent but I just saw it came out a little over a decade ago.

Good interview.

3 for 3

probably gonna be the best album ever

most likely, yeah

If y'all haven't read Thorn's Bedsit Disco Queen, drop everything.

My copy of this came today ^^^.

My Rock'n'Roll Friend, her book on her friendship with Go-Betweens drummer Lindy Morrison, is also worth reading. Guardian review here.

I'm reading Tracey Thorn's autobiography and making my way through the records as I go. I've been a casual fun up until now, with no real sense of the depth of their discography. It's been a trip and I've finally hit my sweet spot around *Baby, the Stars Shine Bright* and *The Language of Life*, both of which I'd not heard before. Both gorgeous records and available for a pittance as well.

I don't know if there is a thread for this, or if it's just me, but I never simply *trust* my taste, or never trust it alone. Maybe that's revealing too much, or, simultaneously overthinking it. Anyway, a bit of context does wonders for me; anchoring the listening in place and time seems to open up the music for me. What a band.

I don't know if that was very well explained. There are people (plenty here, for instance) who seem to know their taste so *well* and don't second-guess it, or doubt it. I admire that kind of certainty, if admire is the right word. Envy, perhaps. I'm sure people will think I'm dubious for even bringing it up.

(a) I appreciate this assumes the existence of taste as an aesthetic marker. But it seems such a given that it might as well be. b) I don't know if any of that needs to be existential but taste is one of those things, for better or worse, that seems so defining of self that see a).)

That all makes perfect sense to me.

There’s maybe two things we’re trying to capture when we talk about our taste in music, the first being what we perceive in the music and then the second being how we value it. And the two are interrelated: the more you value certain aspects of music the more readily and easily you will perceive music adopting a framework that pushes those aspects (or their lack) to the fore.

Context - things like an autobiography, or a great interview or great critical writing - can act to change both, most commonly by encouraging us to attach greater value to different things going on in the music, and occasionally by allowing us even to perceive qualities, dynamics or relationships that wouldn’t have occurred to us otherwise.

If you were to ask me “what is great music writing?” and only allow a one line answer, I would say “writing that does that persuasively and well.”

Conversely I get very sceptical of people whose assessments of music seem too pat in their certainty - to the point where even a positive assessment can end up seeming dismissive: “X has *this* value” can quickly elide into “X has (only) this value (and no other).”

Thanks for those thoughts Tim F. A lot of this was triggered by something you'd written on the 2022 tracks rollout, which articulated a bunch of stuff I've been thinking about, far better than I could. Excuse the navel gazing!

I finished the book. Thanks for the recommendation, Alfred. She's such great company and it's unlocked a whole bunch of the records for me. Jeez, this band.

Nothing Left To Lose (Four Tet Remix)

oh that's well and good, yes. quite fine. good show, kieran.

the bigger announcement today is that the extended club is back for more. oh, how i love a classic 12" mix!

https://pitchfork.com/features/interview/everything-but-the-girl-fuse/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpc2Lf9sFRQ

album's gonna be great

so good, love the repeated words at the end of each verse

omigod my favorite song yet

Predictably the album is great. They nailed it.

i'm not blown away but it's very good

waiting to listen to the latest jam until i can hear the whole album in the morning.

amplified heart and idlewild didn't blow me away initially, so that sounds about right ufo☺

first listen and i'm immediately reminded of the slowdive comeback lp in the sense that it has shades of everything i love about them, but isn't strictly reminiscent of any of their old material. redundancy: and yet, it is still undeniably them. and a lot like that slowdive, this album feels like a loving gift to people like me; a sort of "hey, thanks for sticking around."

(that said, some of this material is absolutely brutal, jfc)

agree with the anti-wow factor / not being "BLOWN AWAY" — quite comforting, in fact. right now, my highlights would be one of the singles (probably "caution to the wind" and "nothing left to lose"), but that may be because of familiarity bias. i certainly didn't expect it to be as morose as it is (and don't worry, i'm not using that word as a negative critique). they certainly came through and captured the climate of contemporary culture, once again synthesizing era-specific customs into contemporary sounds. comforting that they're just as good as ever.

also the track sequence is really good.

some of the slower burning tracks on this shook me to my core - "when you mess up," "karaoke"

yeah, in that respect "lost" can sorta fuck off.

I just noticed the distorted guitar in "Run a Red Light."

so good, love the repeated words at the end of each verse

― fleeting art that floats! (geoffreyess)

the only way you can get away with "fiat cinquecento" is to repeat it over and over again imo.

it's a delicious thing to sing

being tracy thorn also helps

ngl i'm addicted to this song

i love the synth chords at the end of the chorus

fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
his fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
fiat cinquecento
his fiat cinquecento

need an Inhuman League-style remix

Tim’s Listening Party happening now with many Ben/Tracey tweets.

okay, I'm pretty fusin' blown away

had never really listened to ebtg til this year, but they've kind of taken over my life.

when they hit, they hit hard and become an integral part of life. so much depth.

can't really begin to answer the question in the poll. temperamental was my initial fav but idlewild and amplified heart both snuck up on me.

hadn't heard one of their albums before this year, but i'm impressed with how natural of a next step 'fuse' feels despite the big gap.

I've had pretty much the same experience as voodoo chili: barely listened to them, verging on ignorantly avoiding them, and now am astonished by the variety and emotional depth. At the moment, I love the mid-period from *Baby, the Stars Shine Bright* to *The Language of Life*. Been too busy to listen to the new one.

https://forumrecords.bandcamp.com/music - two live EBtG collections, no source/provenance given. The 13-track Walking Wounded set is more varied, catalog-wise. Name Your Price is a bonus.

The strength of their latest album (and particularly "Nothing Left to Lose") has spurred me to finally take this band seriously, and go on a buying spree into their back catalog.

First to arrive in the mail was "Love Not Money", and wow, this is so much better than I was expecting. I had mentally filed early-period EBTG in the same bucket as Swing Out Sister, not jangle pop with horns.
I'm still not 100% on songs with Ben on vocals, and the lyrics sometimes wander into sixth-form poetry, but it all just works together. This is gonna be fun.

Don't be rude about Swing Out Sister now or there will be a knock at the door (I totally know what you mean about underestimating/misrepresenting early EBTG, though).

The first SOS album is better than the first couple EBTG albums -- and EBTG are the better artists.

Actually I was imagining early EBTG sounding more like Kalima (bossa jazz pastiche, incongruously released on Factory records), but I thought that reference was too obscure.
(there can't be any Kalima defenders around here, can there?)

i find that people think there is a line that jazz-pop or sophistipop crossed where it becomes as unbearably cheesy as smooth jazz or whatever but ime this line is so subjective as to be practically imaginary.
― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson)

I just tried the first SOS album, and it's over my line.
Maybe if I work my way up through Language of Life and Worldwide first, i'll be more open to a redrawing of the borders.

I like the Swamp Child album! Not actually made it as far as Kalima yet.

Swamp Children, ffs.

If you have trouble with SOS, prepare yourself for The Language of Life and Worldwide.

Not sure I ever checked out Kalima, but Antena also fits that description

i thought it was sad that only one person picked love not money and then i see that it was....me. good going 14 years ago scott.

the fairest of them all
mirror mirrorball

Hmmmmmm

EBTG At Maida Vale EP out tomorrow ❤️ https://t.co/aEUngPThM0

— Tracey Thorn (@tracey_thorn) August 8, 2023

Sounds good, if you like them stripped down:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErI-YfGmj8g

had never really listened to ebtg til this year, but they've kind of taken over my life.

― ludicrously capacious bag (voodoo chili)

I've going on a deep dive, chronologically.

So starting with Eden:

If I had heard Eden first, it would sound like they just came out fully formed. But they had a few tracks on the Pillow and Prayers compilation from 2 years earlier, and they didn't quite have the songwriting worked out yet in 1982.

"Each and Every One" - The first time i heard this song, i figured that little horn tag on the front must be a sample. But I guess it's just Ben Watt establishing his jazz bona fides up front.

"Tender Blue" - Is there a thread for songs where it starts with a lesser vocalist, then the lead singer swoops in to take over vocal duties and kickstart the track? It's such an effective trick, and there are definitely some fun examples out there ("Coffee and TV", "We Still Need More", U2 "Numb")

"The Spice of Life" - if the album was just a bunch of stripped-down indie guitar songs like this, I'd probably still have it on repeat.

"Crabwalk" -- this is the part of their portfolio where they're like "we can also go full Horace Silver Quintet on you." Is this considered "cod jazz"? I love it. It's a bit pretentious and also entirely necessary. the album definitely needed this intermission.

And then "Even So" has castanets!

"Frost and Flowers" - this feels like early EBTG at their broodiest. I wonder if they were tempted to add some 12-string rickenbacker to this and try to appeal to the Echo and the Bunnymen fans.

"Soft Touch" - I feel like Ben Watt on lead vocals might be an acquired taste...

BTW, it's like the indie labels in the mid-eighties were trying to cut manufacturing costs to stave off the inevitable death of vinyl... my copy of Eden (looks like a French pressing) must be in the flimsiest record sleeve in my collection.

Or maybe this is just a European thing? (another flimsy sleeve in my collection is a German pressing of Movement)

i took myself out to dinner tonight and it was in the middle of my second glass of wine when “before today” played out of nowhere and i was briefly swept up into another life when i was in love and the need for that person pressed inside of me as if someone were flooring a pedal

❤️‍🔥

No votes for Idlewild is wtf.

It's probably because it's the one I imprinted on but the answer is Baby, the Stars Shine Bright.

Same here! “Sugar Finney”, “Don’t Leave Me Behind”, such a fine album. Idlewild is my runner-up.

I’m still team Temperamental.

All-time jam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0daABTFctDg

I'd not heard the demo version of this before. Ah christ, it's all too much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4luK3QGa6k4

amplified heart gets played in our house so much. that is one of those albums like baduizm for me that i return to often because there is a sorta zen like quality to the music, like 90% of the time i want to listen to music in general i'm looking for what amplified heart gives me. of course it's also one of the great albums about domestic disquiet, romantic anxiety etc "get me" is prob my fav song by them

shower me with affection and i'll return in kind
i have no hidden motive, i am blind
i'm a stone inside a box
i'm a spring inside a clock
you can wear me on your wrist
and i'll tell you things ten thousand times

but do you ever get me...

<3<3<3

we listen to 'home movies' (pre-amplified greatest hits album) a lot too, one of our go to tapes. i have an appreciation for the early music but i don't love it the way i do the stuff that came after. i think about mid 90s music on a macro level & just feel like these two people were born to shine in that time period

They benefited from scarcity. After Worldwide bombed, failing to capitalize on The Language of Life, they were reduced to playing and programming the parts themselves. Then Watt had his illness. The songwriting just toughened.

Love that Meet Me demo. The minimal instrumentation allows Tracy’s voice to shine

For now at last I'm down on the street
With the engine running

every time i return to it i'm like... wow amplified heart is perfect

And people say that we're so close
How can there be something that I don't know
Oh but even though I share your bed
Baby, I don't get inside your head
This feeling of some mystery
Do you feel that too?
Do you know what I mean?

And if I should start to cry
And I can't begin to tell you why
And I stumble when I begin
It's cause I don't understand anything

Yes

feeling this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1__auymS9OA

omg I love this song so much

interesting to read the discussion about 'worldwide' in this thread. i think it's another astonishing album of theirs.

some of the lyrics are so earnest and direct that many of the songs would be mawkish in the hands of many. but you just see their taste level and overall mastery of their music really shine through. something like "lift me up" relies a lot on the arrangement and tracey's vocal performance to deliver the emotional punch and prevent the song from being too lovey dovey. and so of course the production is just pitch perfect, all foggy atmospherics and rippling guitars, with tracey's harmonies coasting off that. the churchiness of it reminds me of prefab's "i remember that," tho paddy takes it in a more gospel direction. i feel like he sorta works off tracey & ben's blueprint

"one place" is as expert a stewart matthewman tribute as you'll ever see, that song could be on 'love deluxe' or 'urban hang suite' ... i love how they're kinda talking across each other on "talk to me like the sea" and "one place" about what they want out of life. ben daydreams about putting roots down in some isolated coastal town whereas tracey writes a paean to the life of a touring musician. the way "one place" unfolds, with tracey considering the pleasures of stable family life leading into the almost fake-out chorus and into essentially the rejection of the premise of the song, all set against a supremely lush and ultimately forgiving arrangement, is really beautiful.

the layering of instruments and vocals and the interplay between those two elements really stands out across this album. the way tracey's vocals dance w/ the keyboards on "old friends"; how "politics aside" blossoms into a textural masterpiece; the misty sophistipop perfection of alfred's beloved "frozen river" building to tracey & ben's vocals darting playfully around each other. the second half of the album is really incredible honestly

btw listen to the first 20 seconds of "talk to me like the sea" in the context of "birds of a feather" ... pretty funny

:)

there is a disturbing lack of live recordings of these songs online

i'm not sure how accurate some of these setlist/tour archive sites are, but it looks like they didn't tour much at all in 1992 or 1993, only playing a handful of shows in certain markets. i guess this was when ben was seriously ill ... i'm reading that they planned to do an acoustic tour of the US in 92 but had to cancel it. by 94 they are back out on the road consistently, it looks like they were doing acoustic shows in certain cities while out on a full amplified heart tour. looking at the some of the (alleged) setlists, it looks like "one place" is the only song from 'worldwide' that got consistently played. "talk to me like the sea" pops up a bit. but this era is really poorly documented so it's hard to say ... there's many more setlists from the acoustic shows they were playing.

there are a bunch of live recordings attached to the 'amplified heart' remaster/reissue (at least on streaming) but none w/ the 'worldwide' remaster/reissue, which only gets remixes, instrumentals and demos. i guess this aligns w/ the album just being maligned overall even by the band ... i really need to read tracey's memoir but it seems like even she somewhat disowns it? a misunderstood classic! i need to hear a live recording of "one place" at some point in my life!!!

“troubled mind,” “get me,” and “25th december” made it onto the walking wounded setlist but ‘worldwide’ was banished

a very nice revive and more motivation for me to get into the discography, which will all be new to me, aside from the newest album and a few tracey thorn tracks.

oh well get ready to have a new favorite band of all time

Rereading Austin's comments upthread, I'm struck by his repeated use of "overproduced" as a pejorative. Where are The Language of Life and Worldwide overproduced? The latter in particular sounds like a series of recorded demos. "Old Friends," "Talk to Me Like the Sea," "Understanding" -- some keyboards, guitar embellishments, drum programs, that's it.

"Overproduced" often means "I don't like '80s keyboard presets." Fair! I'd rather one just said it. But the word reminds me of "dated," a word never used about a particular Rickenbacker guitar sound from the mid '60s or, well, Ben Watt's jungle choices in those late '90s EBTG records we revere.

Doesn't Tracey mention in one of her books that Worldwide felt "been there, done that" to them, just going through the motions of making a new record?

map, don't miss the collaborations (https://traceythorn.com/collaborations/). "Hotwire the Ferris Wheel" is particularly nice.

She does, and she has guarded appreciation for the professionalism of TLOL while acknowledging the sound was Not For Them.

oh well get ready to have a new favorite band of all time

― ivy., Saturday, November 16, 2024 8:42 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

:)

I have big love for TLOL due to listening to Julia Fordham at that time. Mellow albums, such singing talent.

Doesn't Tracey mention in one of her books that Worldwide felt "been there, done that" to them, just going through the motions of making a new record?

what's fascinating to me about the album is that you really can catch a whiff of boredom from some of the songwriting, if you position yourself a certain way. for instance "twin cities" is about how "we are the twin cities, we are the river" and then the next song is "frozen river" which concludes with them repeating "you're like a frozen river." i'm not even sure the metaphoric thru line of "frozen river," in which various concepts and people are compared to frozen rivers, even totally makes sense. but the chorus is this wonderful interplay between ben & tracey's vocals, culminating w/ a meditative outro where where tracey is nailing all these emotive vocal runs atop ben's harmonies -- her gliding gracefully across his glassy ice -- and it just feels completely undeniable to me from a songcraft perspective. so i'm like, ok they were just going thru the motions while... tapping directly into the bleeding heart of sophistipop... predicting neo-soul... cool

I’m in the same position as Map. I know the big singles and loved “Nothing More to Lose” but I haven’t heard the albums — and just started exploring. I didn’t love TT’s solo records and that put me off a little. But Tenperamental is fantastic so far.

i can't believe this poll only got 20 votes! bunch of 2009 savages. i'm glad i got my one vote in for Love Not Money. love that album so much.

Curious how the genre changing hits those listening retroactively. Jumped aboard with their first US album, and each shift was an adventure, particularly the Walking Wounded change. Would think going backwards relatively quickly would make the shifts easier to absorb, with less investment and/or wait time between albums.

i still need to spend so much more time with everything pre-‘worldwide’ u_u

as it is i wish i was listening to ‘amplified heart’ every day of my life

the drum fills on “one place” … what a perfect song. insane that isn’t considered a lite FM classic

a very nice revive and more motivation for me to get into the discography, which will all be new to me, aside from the newest album and a few tracey thorn tracks.

― he/him hoo-hah (map), Saturday, November 16, 2024 3:24 PM

oh well get ready to have a new favorite band of all time

― ivy., Saturday, November 16, 2024 3:42 PM

I've also been on a deep dive through their discography, and actually Worldwide was the 1 album where it was just a bit too adult contemporary for me (though i still haven't gotten a copy of Language of Life). Anyway, it's good to see all the Worldwide love here, because this is prompting me to go listen to that album with new ears.

Of the ones I do own, my current ranking is: Love Not Money > Amplified Heart > Baby The Stars Shine Bright > Eden > Fuse > Walking Wounded > Idlewild > Acoustic > Worldwide

I’m like a few of the posters itt. Don’t know their discography very well. Was irritated by the ubiquity of Missing and dismissed them at the time. Until Five Fathoms severely blew my mind. I’ve tried getting into their 80s output since but never managed to. Love the first solo Ben Wats album though

been going back and forth between 'the language of life' & 'worldwide' ... i can clearly see why someone would prefer TLOL and/or why it's generally considered a more "successful" album. the songwriting is tight and punchy -- the first three songs are real pop records, the "take me" cover was a great choice and is well done, FM pop in its pure form. that said, i think for me i prefer the different textures that 'worldwide' provides ... the vocal and instrumental interplay on the outros of "you lift me up" and "frozen river", all of "politics aside." the way "take me" and "one place" are slotted on both albums make them feel a bit like sister songs to me and even there the drum fills on "one place" bring a slightly unexpected feel to that song, it's like some shards of aluminum briefly pass thru the song's perfectly rendered gloss. whereas "take me" really goes for that true radio smoothness the whole time. it's funny thinking about the albums thru the prism of 'worldwide' being one where their creative inspiration was at a low ebb, because to me w/ 'worldwide' i hear a loosening of some of the restraints musicians must impose on themselves when they're writing for a pop audience. and that's not a diss at TLOL because it is a really good album & again i can absolutely understand, even just in general, why someone would prefer the pop album to the more idiosyncratic follow up, but in this case for me it goes the other way

i'm starting with 'amplified heart' and i'm about halfway through. 'i don't understand anything' is my favorite so far. i'm feeling spiritual things lately so i understand if this sounds like a very left-field point of comparison but the open-hearted seeking feeling reminds me of judee sill. maybe the colors in the strings too. what a beautiful string arrangement.

good comparison

what do you think of the strings on "Troubled Mind"? I hear Brazilian music.

“the road” — the final song on ‘the language of life’ — is a really wonderful closer, i love the warmth of the flugelhorn, how relaxed it sounds, yet tinged slightly with mournfulness. it mirrors the song perfectly

there is a sentimentality & optimism to a lot of the songs on this album. “i’ll come driving just as fast as wheels can turn”, “meet me in the morning, i’ll have the motor running,” “i’ll keep a good thought for you,” all of “get back together.” even “my baby don’t love me” is upbeat, it almost sounds like christmas music. it feels to me like they mostly break from this perspective from this moment forward? not that there aren’t optimistic happy songs on their subsequent albums, but they start to delve a lot more into themes of domestic disquiet, what constitutes contentment etc almost conversing with each other at times as albums unfold. ‘worldwide’ feels like a far more personal album to me & then they sort of perfect the whole idea on ‘amplified heart.’ i rate TLOL very highly nonetheless, but i think i really connect with the perspective shift that happens after

i can't believe this poll only got 20 votes! bunch of 2009 savages. i'm glad i got my one vote in for Love Not Money. love that album so much.

― scott seward, Sunday, November 17, 2024 12:58 AM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

Me too, Scott! A guy I had a crush on in college brought it to the newspaper office and I was hooked (I pined after him for years; I'm pretty sure he knew I was alive). I didn't hear their other music for years and was disappointed when I did. Re-trying AH tx to this thread.

announced their first shows since they walked off the stage in switzerland 25 years ago....

Got super excited by the announcement, but I have more chance winning the lottery than getting a ticket. Hopefully it will lead to a full tour down the line.

to quote the mailer

Thorn also says that "If it goes well we hope to do more."

"Full tour to follow in 2050"

just finished reading tracey's memoir and a burst of activity following a long period off wouldn't be that unusual for her/them so i take them at their word that they might actually play more shows. i don't know if they'd ever do more than this sort of acoustic drum machine thing in small clubs tho unless something really changed

The Moth Club shows sound like they were great. Opening with "Night and Day"!

We’re back at the MOTH Club for THREE nights in June. Tickets on sale this Thursday 17 April. Get the upfront ticket link now.

After two instant sell-outs in April, we’re returning to the MOTH Club in Hackney for THREE more intimate shows on SUN JUNE 8, MON JUNE 9 and TUE JUNE 10. We’ll perform again as a part-acoustic part-electronic duo accompanied by Rex Horan (double bass) and Family Stereo’s Blake Watt (guitar, vocals), playing songs from our 40-year careers as both a duo and solo artists.

The evening will consist of two sets and an interval. We will be on stage at 8pm. There is no support. The venue will be mostly seated with some additional standing. Seats allocated on first come first served basis. Doors 7pm.

Tickets (max 2) go on sale at 6pm BST this Thursday 17

really interesting to see which EBTG songs made it onto the set list -- if i went night two and didn't see "i don't understand anything" i would be....

anywho i'm going to be in london in early july so crossing all appendages that this continues

oh god

if I didn't have a wedding during that time I might've flown to London just for the show