The Smiths vs. The Cure

The Cure

also I want people to explain why they're wrong, not just say 'the cure'

The internet is hard. I quit.

explain why they're wrong?

this is sort of a stumper, really. i think i like more cure songs and albums, but my favorite smiths stuff i like more than my favorite cure stuff. hmm.

the cure

smiths

Sorry Morrissey, I love you but the Cure are my favorite band so fuck you.

smiths

these are my reasons:

the cure were a great singles band but the smiths are a better one.

the only non-comp smiths album i listen to is the first one, whereas there are quite a few non-comp cure albums i enjoy (none as much as the first smiths album, though).

smiths have better lyrics and vocals too

i think i like more cure songs and albums, but my favorite smiths stuff i like more than my favorite cure stuff.

yah, ^this

i'd prefer smiths instrumentals to cure instrumentals

i prefer morrissey to that other bloke

I Liked the smiths more, but I wouldn't go back to the world I knew.

The Cure, now.

(possible bonus point for Morrissey obsessive: What's that a ref to, above?)

Tough one ... favorite band at age 16 vs. favorite band at age 17.

Tempted to vote for the Smiths because they quit while they were ahead, or at least never deteriorated to the point of recording the equivalent of "Friday I'm in Love."

Now I like Morrissey more than I used in the past, but its still the Cure.
Better songs, better albums, better attitude.

x post: Friday I'm In Love is exactly one of the reasons The Cure are better than the Smiths. :)

The Cure; mostly for eclectic reasons, and The Smiths, while fantastic, never managed to create pop like The Cure did.

the cure because i've never enjoyed morrissey's voice

The quality of the Smiths' work doesn't seem as flawless now as it did ten or fifteen years ago.

The Cure are still making very good records.

The Cure, because they recorded A Few Hours After This, and The Smiths didn't.

The Smith ;-)

I'm kind of leaning towards The Smiths because they had the sense to break up before they ever started to suck, or had any dodgy periods. (Especially considering the solo careers involved!)

However, some of The Cure's dodgier periods did produce some amazing stuff.

This is, kinda like the Beatles vs. Stones of our generation, isn't it?

Bah not really, I feel "Cure vs DM" would be more similar

See, that would be easy - the Cure in a heartbeat. But *this* is really troubling me and I can't decide.

i dunno....the cure made some groovy records for sure but the smiths are about a million times more interesting to read, write and think about. they seem pivotal in a way that the cure just aren't. maybe those are kind of bullshit reasons to vote for them though so it's just as well that the smiths also rock way harder and have basically no bad songs and are much much funnier.

I read that one up two as "Curve vs DM"

in what ways do these two compare, other than both being from the same era?

I'd say The Cure vs. XTC would be far more apt, if only because they were the two big bands of my youth, the two ever-evolving, ever-arresting post-punk monoliths my 9 year-old self clung to like a limpet. Vastly different, music-wise, but there's a lot to be said for a direct comparison (although granted I am biased by deeply ingrained habit).

in what ways do these two compare, other than both being from the same era?

also, I have rarely met someone who liked one but not the other.

*raises hand sharply*

in what ways do these two compare, other than both being from the same era?

They are both awful?

Two 'important' bands I've never had a huge interest in. The Smiths irritate me a bit. The Cure I don't mind at all. I think the latter seem more accessible to 'outsiders'. I've always got the impression that with the Smiths, it's devotion or nothing.

The Cure threatens my masculinity less.

For real though: I've never been able to get into the Smiths, based on whatever's been on the radio. Their singles have always seemed more just like pop-songs, whereas the Cure's songs always seemed more artistic to me. The Smiths seem less emotionally involved too.

I don't know about same era, the Cure had 6 or so years on the Smiths and a lot happened in those years to separate where the Smiths came from vs where the Cure came from, musically. I mean it's unlikely anyone will ever lump the Smiths in with new wave or post-punk although the Cure easily fit into either. I think they're easier to compare on a singles basis than an albums basis though, largely because a lot of Cure singles are way poppier than what's on the albums.

Anyway that still doesn't stop me from getting into the Cure vs Smiths discussion a lot, though. And I always go with the Cure — I don't hugely dislike the Smiths but I never got into them as much.

The Smiths.

The Cure are too mopey and are too fond of 80's style synth sounds. Also, the Smiths have better songs.

I went with the Smiths because of personal history but I am listening to the Cure a lot more recently due to picking up most of the recent remasters in the last month (couldn't make myself pull the trigger on The Top). I see the comparison in a social sense, in that in h/s the same people were into both bands. Musically I don't see lots of similarities besides lol england.

lol tolhurst.

Their singles have always seemed more just like pop-songs, whereas the Cure's songs always seemed more artistic to me.

What I think I mean here is that Robert Smith seemed like he had probably eaten quite a lot of acid, wheras that doesn't really seem like a place where Morrissey was coming from.

Pretty hard to choose between my favorite bands during mopey adolescence but I'll vote for The Smiths purely on the basis of Robert Smith saying he liked The Smiths whereas Morrissey wanted nothing to do with Fat Bob.

^^^this is surely a reason to vote the other way

I would have considered choosing The Cure if they had stopped at Disintegration but have to give it to The Smiths for having a perfect catalogue.

^^^really don't like this way of thinking

Are any Smiths albums as good as Disintegration? xp

^seriously curious

...but then I'm extremely biased on this thread and I'm gonna scarper before I get nabisco'd

I will never, ever, ever get how people can claim The Smiths have a perfect catalog when half of their fans hate Meat is Murder and the other half hates Strangeways, Here We Come.

the smiths because they knew when to stop

also Dan OTM

also fuck knowing when to stop

Johnny Marr's on the record as saying The The's Dusk is the best record he's worked on. He's right, you know.

*scarpers*

Are any Smiths albums as good as Disintegration?

Yeah: The Queen Is Dead. Anyway, as much as I love The Cure (and as tough as it is to choose between these two seminal bands from my college years), it's The Smiths.

And -- fwiw -- I love Strangeways. I guess that's very much a minority view, tho.

I probably listen to The Cure more than The Smiths at this point but there is no doubt which had the greater influence on me back in the day.

xp: oh, no. That one has "Bigmouth Strikes Again", which sucks. Any others?

As awesome as Disintegration is, there are Cure fans who feel like everything after Pornography shouldn't exist. Fuck that.

I often feel like a lot of what I like about The Smiths gets subsumed by Morrissey's cult of personality, whereas with The Cure, the band is all about Robert's cult of personality and occasionally how the others can poke holes through it.

xp: okay people who say "Bigmouth Strikes Again" are not to be trusted on anything

Okay, "sucks" is less precise than "grates".

The Cure

I love the Smiths, but Robert Smith was on some next-level shit at his many peaks

the Smiths are better than any band of their ilk tho. even though there's a particularly widespread intersection between the fanbases of the Cure and the Smiths I don't consider them part of the same musical or lyrical space really. They don't even express their angst in the same ways.

Both mopey.

The Smiths in a neck and neck finish. The Cure has aged worse for me.

I still have my moments where I can enjoy Pornography, and The Top is one of my favorites of ever. But for all the crit acclaim, Faith and Seventeen Second mostly bore me now, Head on the Door sounds really uneven and pretty patchy, KM3 is too long by half and Disintegration sounds flat out terrible and muddy on my CD. (I wish I hadn't sold my vinyl on eBay!). Good singles, but some hit and miss across the board.

Whereas Meat is Murder has some dodgy patches and the self-titled sounds pretty awful (production wise) compared to singles around the same time. But the singles are flawless and the last two albums are impeccable.

Still, a very close argument, and ask me again tomorrow and it might be different.

Also of note: Seeing the Cure play live two years ago definitely brought them down a few notches in my book, so "knowing when to quit" does have its merits.

The Smiths: Genius lyrics, magnificent guitars, beautiful artwork, hilarious interviews, memorable tv appearances.
The Cure: They had that song about cats, I suppose.

they had 'friday i'm in love'. not heard the cat one.

snappy dressers though.

that cat one is pretty good he even meows in it

The Cure have released about 112 terrible songs. The Smiths have 2 (Sheila Take a Bow, Death at One's Elbow).

thing is I don't have to listen to those 112 tracks, so I can enjoy all the tracks the Cure have that are better than any Smiths track

These are my two all time favorite bands for different reasons and I honestly don't think I can choose.

"also fuck knowing when to stop"

totally agree with this.

yeah, if The Fall had known when to stop, we'd never have had "Sparta FC" !

The Smiths could do no wrong, and that's why they're the right answer.

x-post: also, this is for me the best justification to keep buying Neil Young records.

the smiths, by a lot.

not that the cure weren't great or anything

Louis really bringing the challops on this thread, btw.

You kids and your Smiths records.

xp: Naw, LJ pretty much on the money.

Strangeways... is worse than Wild Mood Swings.

(if you want a challop, I'll give you a challop)

*in awe*

A Cure vs. XTC poll would be more appropriate?? That's batshit insane.

It'd be more appropriate for me, which is something I kept stressing! But it makes sense in terms of their respective longevities/evolutions/artistic ambitions

I don't know XTC like I know The Cure, but what I do know of them makes that comparison seem incredibly pertinent to you and no one else.

The obvious comparison is The Cure vs The Banshees.

I would say The Cure vs Radiohead just for DP head explosion clusterfuck, but a) that's a really silly idea and b) I suspect you'd be going for The Cure fairly easily

Yeah to both of those points.

DP head explosion

eww

poll is odd & timely cuz my wife has been listening to them nonstop lately due to some bout of high school nostalgia/midlife crisis. I was never a big fan of either in their heyday, and generally preferred the cure since they were weirder and less moony/swoony than the smiths.

but after my recent forced exposure I have to admit the smiths albums *sound* so much better, whereas the cure albums suffer from 80s production pitfalls like cheesy synths and cavernous echo. stuff like "just like heaven" can't be denied but on the whole I'm surprised to be leaning towards the smiths here.

The Cure because of the cheesy synths.

other future polls to consider

cure vs. swans
smiths vs. residents
siouxsie & the banshees vs. katrina & the waves

Bruce Hornsby vs. the Range

siouxsie & the banshees vs. katrina & the waves

actual lols

It'd be more appropriate for me, which is something I kept stressing!

Why yes, you do! You cling to it, like the proverbial limpet. Fuck knowing when to stop. ; )

xp: HI DERE - Cure vs. Banshees would be comparing bands that began around the same time with similar influences, true. That would a tough choice for me, too, though I'd give it Siouxsie and co. for The Lord's Prayer. I think what makes this one interesting is that The Cure and The Smiths don't sound very much alike but, as several of us mentioned upthread, they were both favorites back in the day.

I actually think of Smiths, Cure & New Order as the definitive 80's triangle as far as bands being mentioned in the same breath amongst fans. All three of them became well known in the U.S. rather gradually as well.

that cat one is pretty good he even meows in it

The Cure has at least two cat songs - the poppy Lovecats with the meowing, and the turgid All Cats Are Grey with no meowing.

The Smiths: better shit:gold ratio, instrumentation/production has aged better/less dated, lyrics seem less teenage-acid-trippy and reminiscent of high school poetry
The Cure: more adventurous in instrumentation, style and song structure, at least as many good songs/albums due to larger output, lyrics seem less teenage-no-one-will-ever-love me -boo-hoo

ILM is making me re-listen to my adolescent favorites - first the Sisters of Mercy poll, now this one.

I actually think of Smiths, Cure & New Order as the definitive 80's triangle as far as bands being mentioned in the same breath amongst fans.

Replace New Order with Joy Division, and you'd have my teenage trifecta.

did you just say "turgid"

If you were to do, Cure vs. Banshees or whatever, who would be the best match-up for the Smiths?

The The? :D

Well, that would give me another opportunity to vote for a band that isn't the Smiths. : D

Which is the main thing here ;-)

I'd be tempted by Smiths vs. Adam and the Ants

Though The Smiths vs. Pulp would also be interesting

Smiths
(for being funnier)

My impulse reaction was "Smiths vs XTC" but I don't know XTC well enough to know whether that makes any sense.

That thread would be war. Mostly because XTC are more of a lyrics band than The Cure, and so battle-lines would be more apparent.

The Smiths are also wayyyyyy more of a lyrics band than The Cure. Though I'd be interested to hear an argument on the contrary...anyone want to defend Robert Smith as a great lyricist?

and really, I totally don't get how XTC vs. Cure makes a lot of sense to you people but Smiths vs. Cure doesn't

Morrissey could have never written something as abstract and evocative as "Lament," for instance. I like Morrissey tons but he works in a different lyrical medium. Apples and oranges.

Apollo (Apollonian or Apollinian): the dream state or the wish to create order, principium individuationis (principle of individuation), plastic (visual) arts, beauty, clarity, stint to formed boundaries, individuality, celebration of appearance/illusion, human beings as artists (or media of art's manifestation), self-control, perfection, exhaustion of possibilities, creation.

Dionysus (Dionysian): chaos, intoxication, celebration of nature, instinctual, intuitive, pertaining to the sensation of pleasure or pain, individuality dissolved and hence destroyed, wholeness of existence, orgiastic passion, dissolution of all boundaries, excess, human being(s) as the work and glorification of art, destruction.

Good point, Curtis. I should have said that XTC and The Smiths operate in a more verbose, literate lyrical medium.

I should have said that XTC and The Smiths operate in a more verbose, literate lyrical medium.

I don't think "literate" is the best word, both The Smiths' and The Cure's lyrics are literate. Perhaps prosaic vs. poetic would be more apt. And yes, I did say turgid.

and really, I totally don't get how XTC vs. Cure makes a lot of sense to you people but Smiths vs. Cure doesn't

"a lot" = 1?

I harbour multitudes.

I harbour multitudes.

Is that why you appear to repeat yourself a lot?

Has to be The Cure. I am starting to get more into The Smiths, but did never ever make anything even remotely as fantastic as "Let's Go To Bed", "Friday I'm In Love" or "Just Like Heaven".

lol Geir, surely you must acknowledge that your personal aesthetic is much more in line with what The Smiths do rather than The Cure and the fact that you like The Cure more shows that you don't operate under the hard-and-fast rules you claim on other threads

Yeah I was gonna say, I'd have thought Geir would be all over the Smiths by now.

lol Geir, surely you must acknowledge that your personal aesthetic is much more in line with what The Smiths do rather than The Cure and the fact that you like The Cure more shows that you don't operate under the hard-and-fast rules you claim on other threads

Dunno. Think about those three I mentioned. Really catchy and twee singalong numbers with a very traditional melody. Generally, The Cure write great melodies.

In the case of Smiths, their melodies is my main problem with them although it improved on the last two albums. On the first 2-3 albums, it seems like the following procecure was usually as follows:
- Morrissey writes a lyric
- Johnny Marr improvises a few guitar chords, and turn them into a "loop" that he repeats over and over
- Morrissey improvises some random melody on top of Marr's guitar chords

This is not the way to compose really catchy melodies with singalong choruses and obvious climaxes!

Yeah, if you complied the Cure's top pop tunes, it'd be totally Gerbait.

and for once, Geir's "seems like" is exactly how they did it.

I think the closest the Smiths get to Geirbait would be "Golden Lights"

I don't know... "Ask"? "You Just Haven't Earned It Yet, Baby"? "London"? "Sheila Take A Bow"? "Back to the Old House"? "Stretch Out and Wait"? "How Soon Is Now?"? "What Difference Does It Make?"?

This is not the way to compose really catchy melodies with singalong choruses and obvious climaxes!

someone prolly shoulda told them this before they made all those songs with catchy melodies and singalong choruses

"The Boy With the Thorn In His Side"?

"The Boy With The Thorn In His Side" is a wonderful song. As is also "Girlfriend In a Coma". Those are actual songs, not just repetitive mantras.

Melodically, Morrissey has been better post Smiths, although the arrangements were better back in the Smiths day.

xp: those are all good examples, too. Add "Panic" to that list. Definitely got a sing-a-long chorus!

Those are actual songs, not just repetitive mantras.

okay I brought this on myself, I take full responsibility

Add "Panic" to that list. Definitely got a sing-a-long chorus!

"Panic" is a bit too repetitive harmonically. But the "Hang The DJ" line is of course great. :)

The Smiths: ...lyrics seem less teenage-acid-trippy and reminiscent of high school poetry

several xps: although I cannot resist noting that "Girlfriend In A Coma" is a giant sack of balls

some girls is not one of their better songs.

what did passive-aggressive people do before smiley faces :)

what happened? I'm confused.

"Panic" is a bit too repetitive harmonically. But the "Hang The DJ" line is of course great. :)

was in ref to geir's "the "Hang The DJ" line is of course great."

The least helpful review of the Queen is Dead from Amazon:
Someone gave me this album said "It will change your life"

It did I needed months of rehab to get over the awlfullness of this album, that singer can't remember his name, he can't sing, give me Bon Jovi any day.

Also where are the meaningful lyrics "Now I know how joan of Arc felt" What the????

Give me Celine Dion anyday!!!!!!

She is the queen of Lyrics "Near far whereever you are"
BRILLIANT!!!!!!!

That guy from The Smyths could only dream of lyrics like this!!!!!

FACT

Also get into acts like Good Charlotte, Busted, and Mcfly, these are the true and greatest genius's of music, this is just whingy noise, not music.

Also buy U2's lastest album, it is MILES BETTER than this

TRUST ME

pop Idol is the future, this should be left to gather dust in the past!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S

The E stands for Expert!!!!!!

SEE YA

I just like any excuse to repaste that line because it's priceless.

xp: in a weird way I find that review very helpful, just not with determining anything about TQID

Least helpful review of Pornography:
i was hopeing that the cure's sound would stay that of faith,but this one is nothing like the cure before or the cure after.,The best song on here is a strange day good song but it still is well below there songs from faith.,robert smith if you read this go back to the faith album and work from there.no more love songs no more go back when your music was mellow and your words very powerfull..This is probaly the worse of the cure.But worth haven for the song a strange day,.a blind man kissing my hand..

"London"? "Back to the Old House"? "Stretch Out and Wait"? "How Soon Is Now?"? "What Difference Does It Make?"?

I think these mostly fit Geir's description. (I like them and love the Smiths BTW.)

(Is there more than one note in the entire verse of "How Soon Is Now?"?)

The first time I saw both The Smiths and The Cure was within a year of each other back in '84 - '85. The Cure were OK. Catchy tunes. Extended "A Forest," etc. etc. etc. On the other hand, The Smiths were an epoch-changing event - my own personal Year Zero. All the more remarkable because outside of a vague familiarity with "How Soon Is Now" (which had just picked up some airplay on KROQ) I knew nothing about them.

I always remember that I like The Smiths a lot more than I give myself credit for.

However:

1) I don't ever have to remind myself how much I love The Cure.
2) Morrissey is a bawbag.

did mecha-Morrissey defeat mecha-Streisand? NO

the CURE

They have one of the greatest first ten years in history.

^^ my problem is that I'm not too keen on what they did for the second ten.

I have feared this day, but I'm going with the Smiths.

Sigh...it's going to be a long couple of weeks, friends. I mean 24 days...

I'd be open to getting into the Cure, but not based on the argument that those singles are all that. The first album had a good sound, but didn't sweep me up, where the Smiths' Hatful of Hollow was life-changing--my soundtrack to reading Franz Kafka's The Trial in high school. And The Queen Is Dead is plays in my mind to this day, though I never got the CD.

I love the Smiths, great band, and I love Girlfriend In a Coma in some kind of painful way
but
if I had never discovered The Cure I think that I would be a very different person today.
they opened my ears and mind up to great music and defined my high school years more than any other band
also, The Cure didn't release an unawesome album until "Wild Mood Swings" which was only half awesome (and half crap)
Their next three albums followed along that formula (although a little better)
So that's what? 8 or 9 albums of greatness? (not even looking into non-album tracks)

and give me lyrics like Lament over anything Morrissey has written, please.

"Wild Mood Swings" may be patchy and overlong. But the great half of the songs is among the greatest songs The Cure have ever released.

^ truth
Jupiter Crash is a complete wow
and the b-sides are also all great
A Pink Dream was my favorite song my sophomore year of high school

also The Cure made me feel cool in high school because i didn't know anyone who listened to them until their self titled album came out

Cure fans are more annoying than Morrissey fans in my experience.

I don't think it's fair to decide purely on the basis of lyrics, but how Robert Smith's lyrics can possibly beat Morrissey's brilliant witticisms, I really can't understand. Despite Lament being an especially wonderful Cure song, I've never been able to make out most of the lyrics and looking at what I assume to be second-hand interpretations online, I don't see why they're especially remarkable. Morrissey is simply the best lyricist the world has ever known, though, so how do you compete with that? I haven't been pleased with his lyrics of late (Ringleader was awful, haven't heard the new one), but the point still stands.

I recognize that Morrissey is technically better at writing lyrics and much wittier than Smith but I've never really connected with his words so much and have just never really cared for them, really. I don't think Robert is that good of a lyricist really, but his lyrics just connect to me and conjure up pretty images and scenarios in my head.

really really

The only wiggle room for the Cure side is that RS is both Morrissey *and* Marr, though less of each on a talent scale.

Ha, I just looked up the "Lament" lyrics. This is the lyric that people want to put up for comparison?:

Today there was a tragedy
Underneath the bridge
A man walked
Cold and blue
Into La Ment
The sky coloured perfect
As the man slipped away
Waving with a last vanilla smile

Somewhere at a table
Two drowned fools
Smoking
Drinking water as they talked
Of how they loved our lady
And oh the smell as candles die

One more ice cream river body
Flowed underneath the bridge
Underneath the bridge

that's right. tho as with most good lyrics, printing them out is kinda missing the point.

(Is there more than one note in the entire verse of "How Soon Is Now?"?)

You typed the wrong song here, right?

I exaggerated. I just listened. There's more than one note in the whole verse but it's still a long way from traditional Geirian melodic craft. It mostly sounds like stretches of repeated notes with embellishments. All of "I am the son and heir of nothing in particular" sounds like it's on the same note, for example. But, yeah, there's definitely some distance between that and the first two lines.

Now I do like "How Soon Is Now?" somewhat, but it's more on the base of the arrangement and a rather nice chorus. Don't see it as a great melody, really. Still may be the best early Smiths song other than "This Charming Man".

that's right. tho as with most good lyrics, printing them out is kinda missing the point.

not buying this

was equally amused that this was supposed to be the cure's lyrical secret weapon

what's "La Ment"?

15 years ago i would have said the Smiths probably, but now i have no reservations saying the cure

Smiths. I don't trust guys in makeup.

Smith vs. Smiths.

"Lament" isn't their best lyric but it's a fucking great song. If I was going to push Cure lyrics, I'd be pushing "Siamese Twins", "Just Like Heaven", "How Beautiful You Are...", "Like Cockatoos", "The Lovecats", "Another Day", "The Reasons Why", "The Real Snow White", "Disintegration", "The Same Deep Water As You", "Lullaby", "Homesick", "Wailing Wall", "Stop Dead", "The Exploding Boy", etc etc etc.

At any rate, anyone who prefers super-literal Wilde pastiche is not going to find what they're looking for in Cure lyrics so this entire exercise is a case study in point-missing.

lol, Morbs, you don't have to trust Smith, just be entertained by him.

Robert never wrote a line to equal "Joan of Arc/hearing aid started to melt"

(surely few of you wd be surprised that "Bigmouth Strikes Again" is a longstanding anthem of mine)

I really love "Siamese Twins", though.

"Bigmouth" was actually the first Smiths song I heard and I remember it totally made me go WTF for the lyrics and singing alone. Hell of an attention grabber.

I think the first Smiths song I heard was "Girlfriend in a Coma". In retrospect, it's kind of amazing to me that I like The Smiths as much as I do considering how much I came to loathe that song.

I didn't say "Lament" because I think it's Robert Smith's best lyric, I said "Lament" because it's something Morrissey would have never been able to write.

Well, Morrissey wouldn't have been able to write "Living on a Prayer", but hey.

oh btw:

Strangeways... is worse than Wild Mood Swings.

― Wes HI DEREson (HI DERE), Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:46 PM (Yesterday)

;_;

was going to use an angryface emoticon, but this is a smiths vs cure thread, so i dont think anything other than sadface should be allowed

"Strangeways..." is boring in some patches, but it has "Stop Me If You Think You've Heard This One Before" which is one of my favorite Smiths songs! I can't really make it through the album in one sitting tho.

I like Smith's evocative qualities; I like his sense of imagery and mood. I am much less convinced by his storytelling abilities (which is why I think songs like "A Letter To Elise" and "Strange Attraction" don't work; they are straight-up narrative without the wordpainting that he's actually good at).

I really like this lyric, not because of a particular message or scenario, but because of the mounting sense of dread it builds in conjunction with the music:

Scarred
Your back was turned
Curled like an embryo
Take another face
You will be kissed again
I was cold as I mouthed the words
And crawled across the mirror
I wait
Await the next breath
Your name
Like ice into my heart

A shallow grave
A monument to the ruined age
Ice in my eyes
And eyes like ice don't move
Screaming at the moon
Another past time
Your name
Like ice into my heart

Everything as cold as life
Can no one save you?
Everything
As cold as silence
And you never say a word

Your name
Like ice into my heart
Your name
Like ice into my heart

xp: "Stop Me..." and "A Rush and A Push..." are the only songs on Strangeways... I would ever consider listening to again.

anyway Dan otm upthread:

At any rate, anyone who prefers super-literal Wilde pastiche is not going to find what they're looking for in Cure lyrics so this entire exercise is a case study in point-missing.

I like Oscar Wilde more than I like Mervyn Peake but music influenced by Mervyn Peake has way more potential for being interesting than music influenced by Oscar Wilde

ooh "The Drowning Man" is another great great song

haha, I was holding back from bringing up "Your name like ice into my heart".

(Disagree that Smiths lyrics are "super-literal".)

I think they are compared to most Cure lyrics; Smith is patently more obsessed with using words to evoke an image or mood rather than using words to tell a story.

I mean, I don't think a rock band necessarily needs to have great lyrics. I love the Smashing Pumpkins, who probably have worse lyrics than the Cure. I'm just amused by the claims that are being made for Cure lyrics on this thread.

xpost

I think the only claim being made is "I like Cure lyrics for their evocative quality, not their narrative quality".

It's like the whole thing with New Order lyrics, where some of them are incredibly cringeworthy yet still absolutely perfect ("True Faith" is the poster child of this IMO).

"Sinking" is a damn good set of lyrics.

Could somebody point me toward some of the better Morrissey lyrics? Peace.

Among my favorites:

In a river the color of lead
Immerse the baby's head
Wrap her up in the news of the world
Dump her on a doorstep, Girl
This night has opened my eyes
And I will never sleep again

You kicked and cried like a bullied child
A grown man of 25,
Oh, he said he'd cure your ills
But he didn't and he never will
Oh, save your life
Because you've only got one
The dream has gone but the baby is real
Oh, you did a good thing
She could have been a poet or she could have been a fool
Oh, you did a bad thing
And I'm not happy and I'm not sad

A shoeless child on a swing
Reminds you of your own again
She took away your troubles
Oh, but then again she left pain
Oh, please save your life
Because you've only got one
The dream has gone but the baby is real
Oh, you did a good thing
She could have been a poet or she could have been a fool
Oh, you did a bad thing
And I'm not happy and I'm not sad

Also:

Girl afraid
Where do his intentions lay ?
Or does he even have any ?
She said :
"He never really looks at me
I give him every opportunity
In the room downstairs
She sat and stared
In the room downstairs
She sat and stared
I'll never make that mistake again !"

I'll never make that mistake again
I'll never make that mistake again

Boy afraid
Prudence never pays
And everything she wants costs money
"But she doesn't even LIKE me !
And I know because she said so
In the room downstairs
She sat and stared
In the room downstairs
She sat and stared
I'll never make that mistake again !"

@HiDere cursing Moz as 'Wilde pastiche' then using a song with lyrics converted from a Baudalaire poem as evidence Smith is a greater lyricist is 'simply laughable, ah ha ha ha ha ha'

...

If you think I am "cursing" Morrisey, you are an idiot.

some people actually like both of these bands fancy that!

Morrissey's writing really shines in his old letters to magazines

Aerosmith are one of those American dance-a-rama scenic bands with enough punch to see the Stones on pensions and enough make-up to last them through the winter. Their music is that of confused struggle, with vocalist Steven Tyler sounding as though he is using the microphone to brush his teeth. They are as original as a bar of soap and have as much to offer seventies rock as Ena Sharples.

personal fav:

She was left behind, and sour
And she wrote to me, equally dour
She said : "In the days when you were
Hopelessly poor
I just liked you more..."

And if you have five seconds to spare
Then I'll tell you the story of my life :
Sixteen, clumsy and shy
I went to London and I
I booked myself in at the Y... W.C.A.
I said : "I like it here - can I stay?
I like it here - can I stay?
And do you have a vacancy
For a Back-scrubber?"

Call me morbid, call me pale
I've spent too long on your trail
Far too long
Chasing your tail

18 June 1976 - NME (UK)
Review by Steven Morrissey of a Sex Pistols concert: "I pen this epistle after witnessing the infamous Sex Pistols in concert at the Manchester Lesser Free Trade Hall. The bumptious Pistols in jumble sale attire had those few that attended dancing in the aisles despite their discordant music and barely audible lyrics. The Pistols boast having no inspiration from the New York / Manhattan rock scene, yet their set includes, "I'm Not Your Stepping Stone", a number believed to be done almost to perfection by the Heartbreakers on any sleazy New York night and the Pistols' vocalist / exhibitionist Johnny Rotten's attitude and self-asserted 'love us or leave us' approach can be compared to both Iggy Pop and David JoHansen in their heyday. The Sex Pistols are very New York and it's nice to see that the British have produced a band capable of producing atmosphere created by The New York Dolls and their many imitators, even though it may be too late. I'd love to see the Pistols make it. Maybe they will be able to afford some clothes which don't look as though they've been slept in."

21 July 1976 - ??? (UK)
Under the headline "Ramones are rubbish", Morrissey writes: "The Ramones are the latest bumptious band of degenerate no-talents whose most notable achievement to date is their ability to advance beyond the boundaries of New York City, and purely on the strength of a spate of convincing literature projecting the Ramones as God's gift to rock music. They have been greeted with instant adulation by an army of duped fans. Musically, they do not deal in subtlety or variation of any kind, their rule is to be as incompetent as possible. For a band believed to project the youth of America, New York - suburban life, anti-conformism, sex and struggle, or whatever, they fail miserably. And in the sober light of day their imperfections have a field day. (...). The New York Dolls and Patti Smith have proved that there is some life pumping away in the swamps and gutters of New York and they are the only acts which originated from the N.Y. club scene worthy of any praise. The Ramones have absolutely nothing to add that is of relevance or importance and should be rightly filed and forgotten. Steve Morrissey, Kings Road, Stretford, Manchester."

irl lols.

Morrissey as Kinglsey Amis

yeah, iatee OTM

DP - are you going to see Moz on the 29th at HoB?

No, I am not a follower of solo Morrissey.

I saw Morrissey live twice and it was aiight but kinda underwhelming tbh

:-( Aw, ok. I am and it'll be my first time seeing something at the new HoB so it should be interesting.

as much as I'm hating on The Cure on this thread - I do actually like them and am forealz interested in finding more good RS lyrics

like...this is hard to argue with, no?:

Show me how you do that trick
The one that makes me scream she said
The one that makes me laugh she said
And threw her arms around my neck
Show me how you do it
And I promise you I promise that
I’ll run away with you

"Catch" is also pretty good.

Catch is fantastic.

I'm very, very fond of the lyrics to "Harold and Joe."

Cure = have a breadth of imagination that's resulted in some magically great stuff and a decent amount of casting around, this huge pile of really varied material containing incredible gems but also plenty of (compelling!) stumbling and investigation and auto-pilot -- their history is messy, basically

Smiths = have a much narrower purview, but spent a much shorter discography nailing it every time, confidently, song after song, with remarkably little variation in quality -- their history is, well, cleaner

Which makes it hard for me to compare! I wind up feeling like what I'm judging isn't which band is better, but whether it's better to just own your turf and move on, or to struggle your way around, messily, unearthing gems.

'judy is a punk' is on morrissey's 'under the influence' comp so maybe he's revised his opinion on the ramones. anyway smiths, nabisco pretty much nails why.

While I love the Cure, I'm with the fellow above who said the Smiths was his Year Zero. I've waxed on embarrassingly enough about the Smiths online over the years that I don't think I should repeat past mistakes.

I disagree that you can't like both Cure and Smiths lyrics. I do think Moz is a better lyricist, but I quite like the way Robert Smith strings words together (or how he used to from 1980-92). The dream imagery of something like "All Cats Are Grey" or "The Figurehead" is quite striking. Similarly, I like the how songs like "The Walk," "The Baby Screams" and "Push" combine banal pop with unusual, sinister-sounding lines.

I also like how references to Christmas and cats pop up every so often (Other Voices, All Cats Are Grey, Let's Go To Bed, The Lovecats, Give Me It, The Snakepit, Last Dance, and probably more). It's silly and kinda charming.

It's like the whole thing with New Order lyrics, where some of them are incredibly cringeworthy yet still absolutely perfect

I was trying to express this same exact idea earlier today, only about TV on the Radio lyrics. I came up with "The words support their own weight, improbably, like a bumblebee."

^^^ I like

Such a fine line between artless and guileless. Or between stupid and clever.

Also, totally jumping on the minority bandwagon with Strangeways. Take away "Death At One's Elbow" (their worst song? strong contender anyway) and it's a fine record. Meat Is Murder has way more nonsense on it. It mystified me even in high school that it was the first and sometimes only Smiths record that some people bought. It's not a vegetarian anti-war manifesto, Mr. Pity Me, it's just a really middling record. Grr.

I disagree that you can't like both Cure and Smiths lyrics.

This wasn't my point. My point was that if your idea of good lyrics is the stuff that The Smiths do well, it is understandable that you would scoff at Cure lyrics.

While we're doing Smiths lyrics, I'm especially fond of this:

Here her head, she lay
Until she'd rise and say
"I'm starved of mirth
Let's go and trip a dwarf"

Oh, what to be done with her?

What indeed.

I like the Cure, but I find them less quotable, if that's any kind of criterion for liking them more or less (it's not).

I think Meat is Murder is solid except for the title track ... which earns some points for the mooing.

I like the Cure, but I find them less quotable,

I found them equally quotable in high school, but heaven knows the Smiths are more quotable now.

Well said. Older, wiser, more sarcastic and unpleasant.

This thread has put me in the mood for The Cure, even though I voted for The Smiths without much hesitation.

Mixed Up: so good.

Well, half of it is. The "Close to Me" mix is super classic, and the mix of "A Forest" is better than the album version, and "Never Enough" is pretty quality. But otoh, the "Hot Hot Hot" mix is clunky, and the "Pictures of You" mix dates pretty badly.

re: lyrics. After listening a while, and listening to songs I haven't heard in a long long time, Cure lyrics seem quite a bit more adolescent than Smiths lyrics. I know it sounds wrong given Moz's reputation, but consider it. Morrissey seems to be writing from a place of genuine weariness, and angrily lashing out in a way that even his voice knows is totally futile. Robert Smith's lyrics by comparison seem to dance around the edges of malaise and self-pity and pain and sex, but they never really commit to any of those things, possibly because they don't really know them. While Smith is living so long with pictures of you, Morrissey has already resolved to never make that mistake again. Morrissey wants to get his hands on your mammary glands (however ironically), while Smith is "pushing (his) face in the memory of you again", which sounds like a 10th-grader trying to sneak some dirty poetry past his English teacher. Smith sounds like he needs a sharp slap to bring him back to awful reality, while Morrissey can do that himself, thanks, and make a joke of it at the same time. Smith wallows, Morrissey spits and hisses. Not that either approach is particularly healthy and doctor-recommended, but Morrissey's approach is at least more proximal to that of the truly bitter and depressed. The me that used to like Cure lyrics is the same me that liked Violent Femmes lyrics. They sound pretty silly at age 34.

i've been thinking about the question way back up top about what actually connects the two beyond being english and of the same era. i think they actually do make sense as a pairing because they represent different (contemporary, pop) branches of the romantic tradition. they both more or less start with byron, and progress through poe and maybe yeats, but morrissey takes a left turn at oscar wilde while robert smith takes a right turn toward france and lands up with sartre and camus. i think morrissey is the bigger talent in a lot of ways -- or at least the more distinctive and prickly one -- but he's more about sensibility than sensuality, smiths songs are a lot harder to warm up to than cure songs (no matter how hard johnny marr tried). so listening to the two are really different experiences. hearing the smiths is like reconnecting with a friend i love dearly but sort of want to strangle, hearing the cure is like getting stoned in the woods with a bunch of dudes i like pretty well but the main thing is we're all there together.

I completely understand, except Smith is the one I want to strangle, and Moz is the one I want to hang out with and be oh-so-gloriously prickly.

Also: well-put. I would like to have said it as well.

I only said Lament upthread because someone else had mentioned it and it was in my head.
My favorite Cure lyrics would be "Just Like Heaven" and "Disintegration"
objectively i do think Morrissey is the better lyricist... but the fact is is that his words don't do anywhere near the same thing for me that Roberts do.
Whoever brought up New Order is completely otm.
also, I think I've listened to that angry party of "Disintegration" more so than any other piece of music

Face of Wolf, how old are you? Not meant in derogatory way, but I'm just wondering if there's a significant difference in opinion between the over-30s and the younger folks on this thread.

22
Most people i know are more into The Smiths, though

im over 30 and I think more or less along the same lines as Face of Wolf

Yeah I'm sorry I listed my age. It's irrelevant. It's more like tipsy says, kind of which branch of romantic you prefer. Although I might, on a cloudy day, take issue with his literary lineage.

Quickly, before the sun comes up: anything to do with Camus or Sartre in Cure lyrics is lip service at best.

I'm just a hater. I know it's true.

Hey, it's not like it's U2 lyrics or something.

That thread would be war. Mostly because XTC are more of a lyrics band than The Cure, and so battle-lines would be more apparent.

That thread would be unfair, because The Cure would win even though XTC are just fantastic. :)

Bought a Smiths album (Queen is Dead) and a Cure album that I hadn't heard (Pornography) and listened to them both on the commute this morning. On first listen the Cure is still much more my kind of thing, but I'm going to listen to the Smiths one again tonight. I really liked "There Is A Light That Never Goes Out".

One of the thoughts I had while listening is that The Smiths must have had a pretty big influence on They Might Be Giants. They seem to have similar phrasing.

I think the most important thing is that you now own two awesome albums!

I also bought Seventeen Seconds and Bloodflowers, so it's actually 4!

(although I haven't heard any post-Wish Cure, so I don't know about Bloodflowers)

Nice!

You should grab Louder Than Bombs next time you're out music shopping.

Yes. Do.

But if you decide The Cure is more your thing and you're also feeling spendy, I voteThe Head On The Door and Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me and the topper, the Join the Dots box.

(although I haven't heard any post-Wish Cure, so I don't know about Bloodflowers)

― kingkongvsgodzilla, Thursday, March 12, 2009 12:32 PM (29 minutes ago)

Out of This World is one of their best songs

I don't really get the love for that one. It seems a bit Cure-by-numbers...whenever I listen to it, I somehow end up zoning out and not paying attention, which is something I don't often do. Then "Watching Me Fall" comes along, wakes me up, and blows "Out Of This World" to smithereens.

(For 11 glorious, rockin' minutes)

bah "Watcing Me Fall" feels very bloated to me - don't really care about that whole album tbh

'Join the Dots' would indeed be a fantastic place to start if you're feeling a bit daring

It's just so much better than it has any right to be. A box set of b-sides? Really? Yes, really.

Well, it's got all that Standing On a Beach shit that I haven't heard since I had a tape player.

I used to be really into one of those songs, but I can't for the life of me remember which one.

HA! Feeling that. I think it was "I'm Cold"? "Speak My Language"? "The Exploding Boy"? Hell with it, that whole first disc is must-have Cure.

Discs 2, 3, and 4 ain't shabby either.

(Actually, I think I do remember... It was "The Exploding Boy". Has that awesome Tears For Fears sax.)

anything to do with Camus or Sartre in Cure lyrics is lip service at best.

well "killing an arab" is pretty facile (as you'd expect from a teenager), but a lot of his later, better lyrics are pretty steeped in textbook existentialism. "how beautiful you are" is maybe the best example, but it shows up a lot. he's a pop songwriter and not a philosopher, but i think he takes those ideas seriously.

I always found HBYA a bit clumsy (mainly because of the DO YOU SEE epilogue). "Killing an Arab" worked better in my view

(although I haven't heard any post-Wish Cure, so I don't know about Bloodflowers)

Wish was the last Cure album I bought ... I know that there are folks here that will disagree, but it felt like a rehash of (Kiss Me)3 and Disintegration songs that weren't as good as the originals and the production sounded too bright or something, something that I didn't like.

Camus? Tah! The gaiety drowns u.

reading people talk about join the dots reminded me to listen to '2 late'

which is pretty much the best cure song

always found HBYA a bit clumsy (mainly because of the DO YOU SEE epilogue).

"no one ever knows or loves another" is not subtle, but it's not particularly less subtle than "hell is other people."

xp: iatee - they finally put that on an actual album? Not surprised, since it seems like they've repackaged and rereleased their entire back catalog - oh, okay, just looked up the join the dots set, and it has "to the sky" on it. That's another gem.

"no one ever knows or loves another" is not subtle, but it's not particularly less subtle than "hell is other people."

Yeah, but the narrative build up to "hell is other people" was more sophisticated.

yeah - I think the song would have been stronger without the conclusion (Esp. the whole "and this is why I understand now" morale of the story)

What the hell! Name a bad song on Meat is Murder. I still stand by it as my favorite Smiths album and, I actually find that I am able to listen to The Queen Is Dead less often than any other Smiths album.

'meat is murder'

"Meat Is Murder" is one of my favorites on that album, actually; the ones that always got under my skin are considered fan favorites ("That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore", "The Headmaster Ritual").

Always found MiM a bit boring

barbarism begins at home is SO good.

love this video :

My favorite Smiths album by a stretch. Every song is terrific.

the only smiths output I don't really like is "strangeways".

I'm ever so delighted that Kenan chose to quote "Wonderful Woman". I'm afraid that's a song I haven't heard in way, way, too long. Indeed I feel as if it might have escaped me for eternity. Somehow over the years I ended up with a CD single of This Charming Man that didn't include it like the vinyl did. I've downloaded it and am gonna listen when I get home tonight.

The Smurfs.

...Who I can guarantee I was paying more attention to during these bands' heyday. Being a small child and all.

Serious answer: love both bands but I'll take The Cure, I think.

I freely admit that my reaction to this poll is highly colored by the fact that I find Robert Smith's navel-gazing megalomania amusing and I find Morrissey's navel-gazing megalomania irritating, but I do love both bands.

also the cure being your favorite band might color your opinion a little

If this poll were "Prince vs. The Cure" I would pick Prince without even blinking.

don't think that would be a very close poll

not sure if this one will be either though

at the risk of pissing a lot of people off, and im not trying to be inflammatory here, i think i just kind of grew out of the smiths in a lot of ways. and before it looks like im dumping on them, i guess i mean that both lyricists are kind of teen-angst dumb, but when you get past the point of really pushing the lyrical merit and look at the songs (with all due respect to Johnny Marr), the cure just has more arc and more going on.

I would argue that many Smiths lyrics are deceptively teen-angst dumb.

most obv example: 'heaven knows I'm miserable now'

Call me morbid, call me pale.

I'm with JJ here, except for the ever growing into The Smiths in the first place bit...they're just not in a musical place I'm enthralled or moved by

i picked poppage over dronage

I was listening to Queen Is Dead again on my lunch break and I was really starting to feel it more. Not “I like it more than I like the Cure” more, but “I feel really stupid for making fun of them like the Dead Milkmen told me to” more. Bigmouth comes on and I’m really grooving to it and then the chorus comes up

----AAAARRRRRRGGGHHGHHH! -----

It’s like when you’re at the dentist and everything’s cool and then she hits that cavity. No, no! Don’t shake your head, just raise your left hand!

Is that the same backup singer from Nite Klub?

which part are we considering the "chorus" of Bigmouth?

I mean, I assume you mean the actual "Bigmouth, ladadada" part, but it's more or less the same melody and chord progression as anything else, so I'm amazed that would be the painful moment for anyone!

^^ I can see someone finding the lyrics "ladada-da-dada" painful.

I'm with whomever (ha) it was upthread that found the song "meat is murder" boring ...boring and overwrought...best part is the mooing. Is there a thread for animal sounds in music?

I like just about everyother song on that album, though.

but it's more or less the same melody and chord progression as anything else,

It's not the melody or the chord progression that I have a problem with; it's the creepy bad mushroom nightmare electronically altered backing vocals.

Maybe there's a live version somewhere?

A demo? A peel session?

Interestingly, "Bigmouth" is the QID song that gets in my head the most (now that I've left all my old cassettes at my parents' house.)

i've totally gotten used to that girls voice on Big Mouth and now I consider it merely an echo vocal effect

but if it was the whole chorus like M.I.A. sunshowers or something - ugh. Big Mouth is a great song

or Pigeon John - The Weight of the World - shy do so many indie hip hop artists use that creepy bad mushroom voice

creepy bad mushroom nightmare electronically altered backing vocals.

LOL yeah I can actually see someone having a problem with this, though I never did.
I don't know why they felt they had to do that, though. It is a bit weird.

I really like the goofiness of it, though I'm not sure I can explain why.

the creepiness is a positive thing imo

I would argue that many Smiths lyrics are deceptively teen-angst dumb.

yeah, this - I think Mozz is constructing a persona who's both completely unable to imagine any post-teen-angst life & winking about how ridiculous that is, it's part of why I love the Smiths - layers & layers & levels & levels of engagement & remove, really pretty complex for the most part

OTOH man do I ever hate "Cemetery Gates"

wtf I just had a long post that got eaten grrr

I kinda gotta give this to Morrissey just on the strengths of his writing. He is miles ahead of Smith as a lyricist, and he's hilarious in a way that Smith never even really approaches. John OTM about the layers and layers within the Mozzer's oeuvre. Musically the Cure have a broader and deeper sonic pallette, but they don't have anyone in the band that comes close to Marr's virtuosity as a guitar player. And the Smiths never did anything as horrible as the Cure's post-Disintegration output soooo.... the Smiths.

reason #2304932 why this is an easy smiths win imo:
album covers

And the Smiths never did anything as horrible as the Cure's post-Disintegration output

this is bullshit btw

this is turning into one of the most contentious ILM poll

Wish onwards is an abomination. Actually, there's an interesting TS: Cure post-1989 vs Morrissey post-1989. OK, not interesting, because Morrissey ftw.

lol baaderonix, i could have made it a damn sight more contentious if i wanted (but y'know, decorum, restraint, each to their own etc...also i have no wish to start another clusterfuck over a thread that is ultimately doing nothing other than eliciting good discussion)

altho this thread will have failed if I still dislike The Smiths by 3rd April, just sayin'

also i have no wish to start another clusterfuck over a thread that is ultimately doing nothing other than eliciting good discussion

Thanks!

nah - no one will change camps through discussion so no big deal really... I'll be more interested in the follow up cure vs DM thread tbh

2x

Am listening to Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me right now and it's just so good. I still remember sneaking downstairs to watch 120 minutes in middle school and seeing the video for Just Like Heaven for the first time. I was in love.

OTOH I am going to see Morrissey in like two weeks time and I can't wait.

I can't even get into this discussion because I don't really relate the two bands. Apples oranges etc.

I listened to Kiss Me etc earlier today. It was my first Cure album, and I'm glad it was, because it's such a mix of styles. You get a nice overview, and no weak tracks.

Well, ok... not an overview. A mix.

I think disintegration was the first one I actually bought but I think seeing that video for Just Like Heaven was the first time I ever heard The Cure.

Kiss Me was my first
I got it while i was a student ambassador in Australia
it'll always be linked in my mind to traveling across that country via bus

Someone gave me a tape copy of Kiss Me in 9th grade, and from there I went backwards: Head on the Door (omg this band is just as awesome as I thought), The Top (ok maybe I was wrong), Pornography (kill me), Faith (ok I was right this is awesome), Seventeen Seconds (this is the greatest band in the world), and Three Imaginary Boys (I don't understand this strange music, but I like it.)

I mean, I understood the early Cure stuff enough to like it, but I had no idea was punk was, not really, so it seemed a little out of left field.

The same person copied all these tapes for me, by the way. Love you, Anita. Mwah.

Erica, did you even get into the bands near the same time?

I'll be more interested in the follow up cure vs DM thread

I'll be more interested in the follow up led zeppelin vs elvis costello thread

I'll be more interested in the follow up cure vs DM thread

Geritol's stock jumped eighteen points within seconds of this post

As a Cure newbie, where should I begin? All I have is a greatest hits I bought second hand. I like Inbetween Days (yeah, this is a rubbish indication of what I might like).

Voted Smiths obv. Not sure anyone in the history of the world has written a greater song than This Charming Man or There Is A Light That Never Goes Out.

If you're coming from a "hits" perspective, I would suggest starting with these Cure albums:

The Head on the Door (1985)
Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me (1987)
Disintegration (1989)
Wish (1992)

Get these in the order you find them/random order. Once you have these four, I would pick up their classic debut album which is basically an homage to what they loved/were listening to when they started (Wire, Joy Division, Sex Pistols):

Three Imaginary Boys (1979; and/or Boys Don't Cry, which is 90% the same album)

Once you have those albums, I'd close in on their less commercial period in the early '80s, which is utterly classic but not nearly as accessible as they were when they started doing pop music/songs full throttle with the first albums I mentioned:

Seventeen Seconds (1980)
Faith (1981)
Pornography (1982)
The Top (1983) - this one isn't as "canonical" or esteemed as the first three, but is worth hearing for its novelty.

Anything after Wish is optional for a more casual Cure fan. If you're really interested, though, I'd get Bloodflowers first, which I personally think is incredible, and the other three (Wild Mood Swings, The Cure, 4:13 Dream) in any order.

Hope this helps.

If you really really REALLY like all that stuff, get their four disc b-sides set, Join the Dots.

By the way... this is coming from someone whose favorite band is and always has been the Cure, who listens obsessively, knows their catalog inside and out, and who most recently stalked the band from Dallas to Austin to Houston for three Cure shows in four days, one of the very highest points of my live music experience.

ty ty.

Cut to the chase, get Pornography and The Top

I love 'The Top' I've heard that Robert Smith doesn't like it that much. I think it's great.

The problem with being a Cure newbie is that if you're exposed to the post-"Let's Go to Bed" pop stuff, you might never want to hear the Doom Trilogy. I consider myself a Cure fan and never feel like listening to Seventeen Seconds, Faith, and Pornography.

Cut to the chase, get Pornography and The Top

You're missing the point, LJ. If he's coming at the Cure from a pop/singles perspective then those albums will have no immediate appeal. To check out the more accessible albums first, though, and move into, say, Pornography makes more sense.

Come to think of it, I'd really try to hear Seventeen Seconds before Faith, and Faith before Pornography.

Revive so people can vote for The Smiths.

Also, I agree with ilxor's progression of albums, except that Faith may be an even more essential Cure album to own than Disintegration, and yikes, that's saying something isn't it?

neither one is more essential than the other in the grand scheme of things
but both are utterly essential

I thought you were talking about the cure/the smiths the first 3 times I read that

I love both of these bands for such vastly different reasons that a vote either way would be completely arbitrary.

And in the road before us
Stood a weary greyish man
Who held a child upon his back
A small boy by the hand
The three of them were dressed in rags
And thinner than the air
And all six eyes stared fixedly on you

The father's eyes said "Beautiful!
How beautiful you are!"
The boy's eyes said
"How beautiful!
She shimmers like a star!"
The child's eyes uttered nothing
But a mute and utter joy
And filled my heart with shame for us
At the way we are

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

DAY OF RECKONING AWAITS

The Cure have plenty of good songs, but the Smiths only have three songs that are not totally brilliant.

obvious Sade is better than both.

Oh, here is a Cure thread to say this:

Lady Sovereign's new single samples (and uses lyrics from) "Close to me", t'was on "Freshly Squeezed" C4 this morn.

Interviewer: "So, you like The Cure then?"
LS: "Oh yeah, all their stuff is dead catchy, like"

........

so she'll be sampling hanging garden then

every track on Pornography is EXTREMELY catchy!

(title-track debatable but that four-note riff was pretty much seared onto my brain from the first time I heard it)

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

:(

closer than I expected

wrong, IMO.

YOU HAD YOUR VOTE

Right!

LJ OTM

This just doesn't fit with my highschool worldview of like 20 motherfuckres who love the Cure and then three girls in AP English who love the Smiths.

I am yet to work out why The Smiths are so loved...it's certainly not the music*. I really ought to pay more attention to lyrics.

*lol I'm playin'...seriously though it really isn't my thing and for it to become my thing would require some serious alterations in my headspace

what the fuck is wrong with you people

this is that belle and sebastien ILX origin story showing its ugly head again isnt it

picking at a few of its acne scabs and then retiring to its camus novel

xposts. to LJ. It certainly is the music! I care little for lyrics in general but Johnny Marr was a great and forward thinking guitarist. There's like 15 tracks of guitar on this charming man, including acoustic guitar, backwards guitar and dropping knives randomly on an openly tuned guitar.

and i have acne and camus is one of my favourite authors, fo!

whoa mindmeld

OKOKOKOK I'll listen to The Smiths and give them a proper appraisal but it ain't gonna be overnight folks

still love to trot out the line that Marr's self-evaluated best performance was for The The

using Camus as a Smiths diss seems sorta poorly thought out

these results are otm -- the Smiths are 30.23% better than the Cure.

86 people prefer The Cure to The Smiths??
Whatta world.

There's something to be said for leaving the world a perfect or near-perfect catalogue. The only band I think was as unfuckable with as The Smiths in that regard was the Cocteau Twins. That kind of brilliance is extremely rare. And yeah, hell with Moz for a moment, let's give some props to Johnny, too.

That said, I've finally decided to give Pornography a re-listen right now, first time since 1985.

camus is better than the cure for what it's worth

I am reading 'la peste' and it's kinda boring

+ been breaking out lately

I suppose smiths fans are pretty stereotypical at the end of the day

sblj

the myth of sisyphus totally rocks.

There's something to be said for leaving the world a perfect or near-perfect catalogue

Is Vicar in a Tutu part of this near perfect catalog?

where does Louder than Bombs fit in that flawless catalogue?

Near or at the top.

Oh sorry, were you aiming for sarcasm?

sarcasm only works when you're right

sorry

it's okay

in any case, I find most of the stuff on LTB pretty average, esp the awful Panic and Ask

"Ask" is a bit Smiths by numbers, but "Panic" was one of their best singles IMO.

hard to think of a smiths single as jubilant as "why can't i be you?" but maybe that's a bad thing

and there's um more than a few smiths rave-ups that completely fleece "jumping someone else's train," released what, two, three years before the smiths even got together. not that that really matters

Both pretty good singles bands - though I haven't listened to a full album by either in ages. Morrissey's mordant wit beats Robert Smith's melodrama for me though - so The Smiths.