Morrissey vs. Prince POLL

Morrissey without even the slightest momentary hesitation.

Haha. Let's remember that Alex also prefers Bowie to Prince.

Honor the paisley!

xpost to Alex: Hahahha woohoo! But I think we don't stand a chance, man.

Damnit where are the UK-ers when I need them? It's 10pm there, they're probably out at pubs. Jesus christ.

Haha. Let's remember that Alex also prefers Bowie to Prince.

...as any sane, awake, cognizant being with a brain and even an iota of sense & taste would. I mean, Prince plays his guitar well and sure can pick out fetching pairs of assless pants, but Bowie's so far above that overrated, oversexed, Bible-poisoned newt that his ears must be popping.

lololololololol

okay but what's this about "assless pants"? Inquiring minds want to know!

oh man alex, you and i have a ton of tastes in common (C$C love trumps all) but this is going to be one of those strenuously disagree moments

xpost youve gotta be kidding me dude, that is kind of definitional prince wtfness right there

Somehow I knew you'd be on the wrong side of this debate, John. I liked your haircut on the WDYLL thread, though.

are you sure you're not actually from england?

http://www.stanleylieber.com/images/prince_ass.jpg

i don't even really need to say it, but i am a huge prince stan and have never been into morrissey at all.

xpost

That is fucking photoshopped and I will not be duped. You Tube it or die, punk.

dude, everyone is familiar with prince's assless pants at the vma's. it used to be on youtube, but it got taken down like everything else prince-related on youtube.

alright, alright. Jesus. Can't a guy get to look at some assless pants around here? SHEESH.

citation: http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20223762_1,00.html

Morrissey. Never really got into Prince, whose greatest albums sound dated now.

That is fucking photoshopped and I will not be duped. You Tube it or die, punk.

― Lucking Faptop (Bimble)

wat, those pants are legend

Haha. Let's remember that Alex also prefers Bowie to Prince.

I don't think this is that radical or unjustifiable opinion.

Good thing Morrissey doesn't sound dated at all now xxp

this is harder than it should be because morrissey put out a pretty good album this year and prince put out two mediocre albums htis year

but duh come on it's prince

good poll. and tough! I'm going to have to think on this.

sorry Bimble but it's Prince all the way for me...

lol are you guys even fucking joking?

this is like prince w/o even a second of hesitation

lol morrissey yea right

i dunno for me it's like 'dirty mind' >>>>>>>>>>>> morissey's entire ouvre

There was a time, many many years ago, when Prince made good records. Morrissey still can. Voting Moz.

as any sane, awake, cognizant being with a brain and even an iota of sense & taste would. I mean, Prince plays his guitar well and sure can pick out fetching pairs of assless pants, but Bowie's so far above that overrated, oversexed, Bible-poisoned newt that his ears must be popping.

I adore Bowie, but I heard Scary Monsters tonight: an album I like a lot, but one burdened by terrible singing and lyrics to boot.

I mean, whatever else, when Prince is at his worst, he can still cough up throwaways for The Time, Sheila E, and Vanity. He knows what motivates human beings. Bowie, at his best, can only write to his strengths. He has no special gift, as Christgau said, for tunes or for genuine emotions.

Plus, again, Bowie, when he tries hard, is one of the worst singers in rock history, god help him.

Sign 'O' The Times >>>>> any Bowie album ever (and I adore Bowie)

I like the Smiths a lot but Morrissey better than Prince? I just can't do that.

I adore Prince, but I'll take The Smiths-era Morrissey over him. And, FWIW, Morrissey's had a monster comeback this decade, with three top-notch albums long after his eighties "prime."

Morrissey had no monster comebacks.

If anyone can find performances and songwriting as "If I Was Your Girlfriend," "Strange Relationship," and "When You Were Mine" in Moz's catalogue, despite his considerable strengths, I'll relisten to Maladjusted.

De gustibus non est disputandum. To me, You Are The Quarry and Ringleader of the Tormentors constitute a "monster comeback."

And there are plenty of songs in The Smiths catalogue as strong as those three Prince songs, I think.

"He has no special gift, as Christgau said, for tunes or for genuine emotions.

Plus, again, Bowie, when he tries hard, is one of the worst singers in rock history, god help him"

dude.

De gustibus non est disputandum

take it to de subjectivisten

yes.

Prince vs Bowie.

take it to de subjectivisten

That board frightens me.

A couple of weeks ago, a good friend and I played Never Let Me Down. As a devoted non-fan of Bowie, he was horrified by how badly Bowie sounded on that damn thing. Bowie, at his worst, has affectations as a base, while Prince has that incredible voice and instrumental dexterity to create above average R&B. Nothing Prince has done at his worst reeks as much as Tonight or Never Let Me Down.

wait how did bowie even get dragged into this

PRINCE is a way better dancer. Morrissey only know the 'weeping willow'

Prince is my all time fave, but I'm currently going thorough as Moz/The Smiths renaissance. Very tough choice. In the end, I went for his Royal Badness.

http://gothdance.ytmnd.com/

Prince ftw.

even though i like bowie way more than morrissey, the idea that bowie is better than prince makes me way more irritated for some reason

I like bowie more than morrissey, morrissey more than prince, and prince more than bowie

Prince >>>>> Bowie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Morrissey

"Nothing Prince has done at his worst reeks as much as Tonight or Never Let Me Down"

lol. theres plenty of prince songs that are complete and utter shit.

morrissey is funnier... tbh idk why americans would like morrissey. kind of like british people who dig springsteen? both have been rubbish for nigh-on two decades now, but prince had worse quality control during his good era. otoh it's wrong to credit morrissey alone for the smiths.

The Smiths >>>>>>>> Prince >>>>>>> Solo Morrissey. Voted Morrissey.

Morrissey's flirtation with racism not only makes me hate him, but also makes me think that anyone who would seriously pick him over Prince us a fuching racist, or at least doesn't actually give a shit about racism (which is just as bad).

Also, The Smiths were about Morrissey/Marr, not just Morrissey, whereas pretty much every permutation of Prince's band has been about Prince.

The fact that this is even a question makes me furious.

xpost: isn't ILX all about being racist, tho?

Me and my ex-girlfriend, who's a big Morrissey fan, once got into a big argument when I mentioned Morrissey's alleged racism. I didn't even say that he's a proper racist, just that he was flirting with racist ideas, but she wanted to hear none of that.

also bands & artists that rip off prince >>>>>>>>> bands & artists that rip off morrissey

It surprises me that we had to wait this long for being told we are racists.

im totally into and supportive of the idea that morrissey fans are racist - sorry morrissey fans!

mexicans aren't racist.

tbh idk why americans would like morrissey. kind of like british people who dig springsteen?

???

kind of like british people who dig the sopranos? americans who dig charles dickens?

i want to say something about morrissey and racism but it keeps coming out apologist. :/

Prince. Although Morrissey has made more good music after 1992 or so.

I mean, whatever else, when Prince is at his worst, he can still cough up throwaways for The Time, Sheila E, and Vanity.

This was correct 25 years ago.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/2008/11/24/081124ta_talk_hoffman

When asked about his perspective on social issues—gay marriage, abortion—Prince tapped his Bible and said, “God came to earth and saw people sticking it wherever and doing it with whatever, and he just cleared it all out. He was, like, ‘Enough.’ ”

Anyway, I mean, in the late 90s, Prince released singles under his own name (well, "logo") that wouldn't even have been considered for a Martika or Sheena Easton b-side in the 80s.

anyone who would seriously pick him over Prince us a fuching racist

Yes, because GOD FORBID someone not share your blinkered opinion or bad taste. Yes, they MUST be racists. Maybe some people just prefer Morrissey's music over Prince's. Ever consider that?

Morrissey's alleged racism is dwarfed by Prince's CONFIRMED religious (i.e. intollerant) zeal (see quote above).

Morrissey's music is exciting 2% of the time, Prince about 80%.

anyone who would seriously pick him over Prince us a fuching racist

i'd probably go with prince here but this really is like a blindingly stupid thing to say.

Morrissey's music is exciting 2% of the time, Prince about 80%.

(a) You can't mean this with regard to Morrissey's work with The Smiths, right? and (b) the key to Morrissey's songs are his lyrics.

lol are you guys even fucking joking?

this is like prince w/o even a second of hesitation

Yes.

I'll take Prince in concert and Morrissey in the studio.

No no no Daniel, I mean Morrissey solo. Smiths were exciting about 80% of the time. I am assuming this is Morrrissey solo, this question.

geir otm itt

One can write songs, one can sing. And both of them are Prince.

Hahahhah. I would expect as much from you, Matos. Look, I'm not going to even get involved in this anymore. You guys can fight it out amongst yourselves.

i like to listen to Morrissey about once a year. i like to listen to Prince a few times a week. to compare them in any way is pretty ridiculous i think, Prince is so obviously superior in just about every category except for appeal to whiny white people. i almost agree with the racist bit, that's how obviously superior Prince is.

Prince's best asset is his assless pants.

aren't you going to post something about masturbating to Wendy & Lisa?

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL okay WOAH don't get me started. This is a Prince vs. Morrissey thread. I am trying to keep calm and stay out of this. You're not helping.

Racist vs Jehovah's Witness amirite?

Prince is obviously far more innovative and talented but he also gave us Graffiti Bridge so I gotta give this one to the Big Man.

Morrissey also gave us Meat is Murder, Kill Uncle, Southpaw Grammar, Maladjusted...shall I stop?

^at least two really good albums in there

graffiti bridge is a really good album if you include just the prince tracks.

I should have added "the film" in brackets.

Even the worst Prince album between 1979's s/t and Sign o' the Times >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Morrissey

and I think I'm including the protégé albums in that equation.

Battle of the proteges! Morris Day/Sheila E/Vanity 6 versus ...um, Bradford?

Smoking Popes!

Morrissey is a much better lyricist than Prince in my opinion but the question isn't "who's a better lyricist," it's "who on the average makes better records"

so, Prince

but that said can we grow out of "even the worst Prince is better than the best Morrissey omg my preference rules yours drools!!1!" plz

Prince is party music. And we're not always up for a party, are we?

Prince isn't always party music. Sometimes he makes music for stay-at-homes too.

alfred otm but it should also be noted that he says things like "let's look for the purple banana til they put us in the truck" when he needs a rhyme for "let's get nuts" & then pretty audibly thinks he's been quite clever

I dig both these guys but yeah Prince, he does more and does it better than Morrissey or just about anyone.

Morrissey also gave us Meat is Murder, Kill Uncle, Southpaw Grammar

Southpaw Grammar is LIGHT YEARS BETTER than the entirety of Prince's output since 1992.

Kill Uncle is crap, though, I'll give ya that.

anyone who would seriously pick him over Prince us a fuching racist

jeez

but that said can we grow out of "even the worst Prince is better than the best Morrissey omg my preference rules yours drools!!1!" plz

Not when the topic is something as arbitrary as Prince vs. Morrissey FITE!

but that said can we grow out of "even the worst Prince is better than the best Morrissey omg my preference rules yours drools!!1!" plz

yes. hell, threads like this make me wish i didn't like prince.

Morrissey's flirtation with racism not only makes me hate him, but also makes me think that anyone who would seriously pick him over Prince us a fuching racist, or at least doesn't actually give a shit about racism (which is just as bad).

― maybe u should tell that to your laughing vagina (HI DERE), Sunday, April 12, 2009 3:53 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

man..dan...c'mon.

i think i will go with prince in this case.

buuuuut that whole argument seems pretty suspect esp. if you flipped it and used prince's recent comments and jehovah ballerstatus and moz's persona to say that anyone who votes prince is hates gays

I am not going to retract that. It's unreasonable and illogical but it pretty much sums up exactly how I feel about solo Morrissey, which is why I never discuss him.

yr thoughts on prince's homophobia, dan?

do you hate the smiths dan? cuz that seems like it would be stuff you like overall

The fact that this is even a question makes me furious. but a good thread. Never liked vests, so voted Prince.

i just have a really hard time ever taking Morrissey seriously - dont know if it comes from buying that "november spawned a monster" CDEP and going "wtf r u doing to me here" or just sort of a general "oh come on you maudlin whining douchebag" thing, but i just cant quite get with the love.

i realize that the fact that i can take the maker of "batdance" seriously in contrast probably seems a little odd, but

honestly it all works better if you understand morrissey was the david lee roth of sad UK indie rock

(like it's funny absolutely, but also awesome)

If anything, this thread has proved that evaluating any musician on their beliefs (no matter what they are) is useless.

In other news, sky blue.

yr thoughts on prince's homophobia, dan?

I think his stance on gay marriage sucks and makes me think less of him. I think the entire quote shows that he doesn't really have any idea of what he's talking about with regards to the issue (in its entirety, he said the people trying to legislate love are wrong, regardless of whether they are pro- or anti- gay marriage, which kind of makes you wonder how exactly things are supposed to work in nonsensical Prince land). There are also conflicting things surrounding the Prince homophobia thing, where Perez Hilton had something from the Prince camp claiming he was misquoted or whatever, but I think the truth is closer to Prince doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about because he has been crazy and self-indulgent for too many years. I only listened to his latest albums once and will likely never play them again, so I don't know if he is recording songs about how wrong it is to be gay. I do know that he has officially stopped recording music I have any vested interest in listening to.

Morrissey, meanwhile, totally went British Power for several years in both his music and interviews and, based on a combination of that and thinking everything I've heard from his solo career is really lackluster and substandard compared to The Smiths, I never want anything to do with him again.

do you hate the smiths dan? cuz that seems like it would be stuff you like overall

The Smiths are one of my favorite bands. Most of this is due to the synergy between Morrissey and Marr; one of the reasons I dislike Strangeways... so much is because of how disconnected the two of them seem from each other on most of its songs.

his solo career is really lackluster and substandard compared to The Smiths

This, definitely. I didn't understand the thread to be "exclusively solo" Morrissey v. Prince throughout his career. If that's the limitation, I'd switch my vote.

That's how I was thinking about it, because as I say upthread I really do see all of Prince's bands as being sockpuppets for his muse; you really can't say that about Morrissey and The Smiths.

The Smiths are one of my favorite bands. Most of this is due to the synergy between Morrissey and Marr; one of the reasons I dislike Strangeways... so much is because of how disconnected the two of them seem from each other on most of its songs.

― maybe u should tell that to your laughing vagina (HI DERE), Monday, April 13, 2009 3:07 PM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark

But they got along just fine when they put Strangeways together. Despite the fact the Smiths would break up shortly after, I think both Moz and Marr have said that the Strangeways sessions went without a hitch and if I'm not mistaken, Marr says Strangeways is his favorite Smiths record. Could you perhaps be hearing the disconnect because of the knowledge that they broke up shortly afterwards?

Possibly. I do know, though, that The Smiths are one of the few (if not the only) band I really, really like where exploring their back catalog made me hate the album that introduced me to them. It was kind of like, "Well, this is pleasant I supposed, but holy shit they used to put out albums where almost every single song was the greatest thing ever recorded; what the hell happened and why do so many of their final songs sound so detached, bored and uninvested in comparison?" Some of it may be production; their first album sounds like hot garbage but the songs from it on the Peel Sessions recordings that ended up on "Hatful of Hallow" are easily the best of their career.

yeah if this is exclusively solo Morrissey vs. Prince then I'd change my vote too. I voted for him because The Smiths mean a little more to me personally than Prince's career (and because I wanted to vote against the landslide) - but I don't think there's any question about who's a more accomplished and diverse artist. Er...does Morrissey even play any instruments?

The Smiths/Morrissey vs Prince would still probably go to Prince for me, if only because I do genuinely find something of worth in everything he's released right up to his new crap sandwich, which could have been distilled down to the "Crimson and Clover" cover and saved everyone a lot of tears and anguish (actually, a Prince covers album would be incredibly badass and probably the only way his current modus operandi could generate a full album of awesome material rather than boring self-indulgent bullshit).

A whole album of covers as good as "One of Us," please.

i'd like a recording of his version of "sweet thing".

he even covered sheryl crow and made it kinda hot.

I'd definitely buy a Prince covers album too. "One of Us" is great, and the other two covers on Emancipation aren't bad either. Could be though that he still thinks of himself as a too much of a genius songwriter to ever release a full covers album.

i find it difficult to believe that prince has an inflated sense of self worth

alfred otm but it should also be noted that he says things like "let's look for the purple banana til they put us in the truck" when he needs a rhyme for "let's get nuts" & then pretty audibly thinks he's been quite clever

I'm so glad Morrissey never audibly thinks he's quite clever.

gonna vote morrissey, i've always kinda liked prince but i'm also kinda 'whatever' on him

i assumed everyone was operating under the assumption that we are dealing with two of the biggest self-impressed douchebags ever

Could you perhaps be hearing the disconnect because of the knowledge that they broke up shortly afterwards?

This is actually a really interesting topic, though it probably belongs on a Smiths thread. I've said elsewhere that I think the Smiths left behind a nearly perfect catalogue, but I do recall that when Strangeways came out, I had the feeling that they'd pretty much done what they needed to do. The flower had fully bloomed, so to speak and there were some petals that were starting to show a hint of decay, there.

Bimble, you started the thread. What was your intent: Morrissey solo v. Prince or Morrissey (Smiths and solo) v. Prince?

I assumed that we were always talking about Morrissey solo vs. Prince. I probably didn't read all of the other (non-Poll) thread, but that was always my assumption.

I might actually vote for The Smiths over Prince just because I hate his new triple album so much and I'm feeling spiteful (good thing it was cheap).

Well, then I'd change my vote. But I think Smiths v. Prince would be a more interesting poll, TBH (Morrissey solo v. Prince I'm surprised is even a question, given you're comparing an artist -- not past his prime -- but definitely beyond some/much of his A+ prime v. an artist through his early experiments, prime and late-career catalogue).

Put differently, Smiths v. Morrissey as a solo act is a no-brainer (to me).

man what if prince had stopped recording after lovesexy?

We would never have gotten "P Control".

(although, the counterpoint is that we also would never have gotten "Dolphin")

I'm w/ ya daniel

Well, put another way, I just kindof thought of it as Morrissey and all that he is (i.e. inclusive of what he himself brought to the Smiths) vs. Prince. I can see how that might be a tough thing for people to parse, though.

morrissey is obv better out of the two in 2009. princes new/recent music is pretty shitty. morrisey pretty much makes the same song and over and over but its at least more respectable and decent than princes. i was going to say morrisey at least crafts his material more while prince still seems to think its 1987 and he can run purely on inspiration argument but then they both seem a bit guilty of that at times. prince is def the worst offender tho. also they might be boring and indistinct but at least moz's recent bands dont sound like wedding bands.

If Morrissey's band showed up at my wedding, I would be furious.

If Prince's band showed up at my wedding, we would party until noon the next day.

I'm prolly more or less repeating something someone said but:

the comparison is sorta unfair to morrissey to begin with, in that the two artists' strengths are so different and have almost zero overlap. of course, prince is obviously a superior musician and composer - as far as natural gifts for music go, he's prolly in the top 5 of the 20th century, so that's gonna be the case nobody who you compare him to. yet he couldn't write 'frankly mr. shankly' because he completely lacks the things that make people want to listen to morrissey (irony/wit/self-effacement etc.)

er nobody = no matter

man what if prince had stopped recording after lovesexy?

We wouldn't have gotten the Love Symbol album and Emancipation, which are both among his 10 best works. Some may disagree with me here, but I think even among his 80s albums only 1999 and SOTT are better than the Love Symbol album. Despite it's excesses (or because of them) it's a brilliant record, it simply has everything that's great about Prince, from tight funk to pretty ballads to motoric dance grooves to overblown rock opera.

I agree with Tuomas here only I'd say Parade and SOTT.

and 3121 gives me hope that he can make a great album once per decade. i don't think that's too little to ask, at this point.

I think the best bits on Parade are great ("Mountains", "Kiss", and especially "Sometimes It Snows in April", the one Prince song most likely to bring tears to my eyes), but the shorter tunes feel too much like vignettes instead of properly fleshed out songs. And the extremely dry sound the album has kinda leaves me cold, except on "Kiss", where it obviously fits quite well. Could be that the sound problem is with the CD mastering though (could someone please finally remaster all of Prince's 80s albums), I haven't really heard the album on vinyl.

parade does sound pretty sterile and thin except for kiss.

I played Parade on vinyl more than any other album I own.

Everything Tuomas said is what I love about Parade.

man what if prince had stopped recording after lovesexy?

Cats and dogs would live harmoniously.
We wouldn't be in Iraq
Taxes would have been abolished
A rich reserve of ecologically-sound fuel would have been discovered
We'd have found a cure for Tinnitus
The Zodiac killer would have turned himself in
Iceland wouldn't have gone bankrupt
Courtney would have killed herself instead of Kurt
The Smiths would have gotten back together

has everyone forgotten how badass "Black Sweat" was?!?!?! he still makes a couple nice jams here and there....

I'm very fond of "Chelsea Rodgers." The Little Guy can still cum when he wants to.

I'm so glad Morrissey never audibly thinks he's quite clever.

well, but he is. Prince is musically 1,000,000x more clever than Morrissey, but when Prince is being goofy/funny I've always found it kind of y'know "LOL, Dad, hilarious." You know? Like: "she walked in through the out door" as a payoff line? Really? Redeemed later by "I could tell when she kissed me/she knew how to give me a kiss" but is one of many many instances in Prince's lyrics where it would have been nice if there'd been somebody around to tell him "that's not worthy of the other stuff you're doing here, work on it a little more." When Mozz lets you know he's trying to be clever, it's usually because he knows he's going to hit the bullseye. Whereas for Prince it's like "nobody around here is ever going to look me in the eye and say 'that's not actually that funny,' because it says right there in their contracts that they're not allowed to look me in the eye."

But don't be mad remember I voted Prince here.

only prince could make these lyrics sound like deep, heartfelt sentiment:

I promised myself not to come until she does
And she took both hands and a liar I was
No man in this world could ever hope 2 last
When my baby down shifts and starts pumpin' fast

Everything I want is what she does to me
She don't blush 'cause she's so damned free
When she makin' love it's like surgery
And she say, ooh
I love U in me

The 'Prince really needs an editor' thing is as true musically as it is lyrically. So much amazing unreleased Prince stuff, so much horrible released Prince stuff.

yes completely otm
i'm always surprised that that song really gets to me and doesn't make me laugh (xpost)

haha John I'm not mad at all (and yr explanation is superb)

Look dudes, I mean no offense, but Morrissey is simply the greatest lyricist the world has ever known, and whatever talents Prince has been blessed with, he is never going to match the best of Morrissey's lyrics. You Prince folks had better tackle this battle from another angle, cause lyrically Morrissey can beat him every single time.

"has everyone forgotten how badass "Black Sweat" was?!?!?!"

nope.

prince did used to genuinely be funny. now hes just funny in an old/fuzzy not exactly lucid uncle way.

Bimble, Morrissey is not the greatest lyricist the world has ever known :(
also, plenty of people are tackling this from different angles
also
Prince>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Morrissey (and almost everyone else) everyday of the week for me

Yes, Morrissey is and the Prince lyric quoted above, divorced from its musical context (I don't believe I'm familiar with the song) looks pretty boring and average compared to Morrissey's lyrics. I don't honestly have any time for people who don't appreciate that guy's lyrics. I don't care whether Prince is your fave artist or not, if you don't have any appreciation for Morrissey's wit in the midst of what should be on the surface, extremely depressing songs, then we are speaking different languages and I'm not even going to argue with you.

well... i believe the point of posting that lyric (the one Jordan posted, right?) was that it's pretty fucking ridiculous divorced from Prince's performance but Prince is one of the few people who could somehow deliver it completely straight-faced without the listener bursting in laughter but instead somehow makeing it hit deep.
I mean, Prince isn't really about witty lyrics that stand by themselves away from the music while that is a huge part of Morrissey's appeal

(I wasn't arguing that Prince is a greater lyricist than Morrissey, I was pointing out that saying Morrissey is the greatest lyricist the world has ever known is ridiculous - i don't think you were completely serious when saying that, though?)

If this was a whose lyrics would you rather read I would choose Morrissey in a heartbeat

WHY DO PEOPLE WANT LYRICS TO "STAND ALONE"? WHO CARES? They're LYRICS, not POEMS.

Hahha ooh! Alfred gets all excited and uses capital letters! I love it! ;) I don't want lyrics to stand alone, I don't think they have to. But they can, and Morrissey's sometimes do in a remarkable way no one else can match.

is morrissey worth a dylan comparison, in that their lyrics might read fantastically but unfortunately (for a great many people) both of them keep insisting on singing them?

What are morrissey's best lyrics?

i hesitate to ask but what are Morrissey's sexiest and/or most fun (subject-wise) lyrics? xp

What are morrissey's best lyrics?

my favorite is the one about how birthdays were the worst days but now he sips champagne when he's thirsty

btw here is a partial list of better lyricists than Morrissey, even though I like Mozz's lyrics a whole whole lot:

Biggie
Tupac
Scarface
Ghostface Killah
Donald Fagen
Christine Fellows
Sarah Dougher
Nick Cave
Chuck Berry
Bill Callahan

What are morrissey's best lyrics?

My favorites are "This Night Has Opened My Eyes", "Half A Person", "Reel Around The Fountain", "Girl Afraid" and "There Is A Light That Never Goes Out".

Declaration: Morrissey has never written anything as abjectly embarassing as "Partyman" or "Darling Nikki"

Declaration: Morrissey has never written anything as abjectly embarassing as "Partyman" or "Darling Nikki"

Rebuttal: "Accept Yourself," "Unhappy Birthday," "King Leer," "The Harsh Truth of the Camera Eye," "Dagenham Dave," "I Like You."

Declaration: Morrissey has never written anything as abjectly embarassing as "Partyman" or "Darling Nikki"

"Asian Rut" makes "Darling Nikki" read like Tennyson

also, that last track on "Maladjusted," the "lawyer/liar" one - "Sorrow Will Come in the End," that's it

"Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others"
"Unhappy Birthday"
"Death At One's Elbow"
"Still Ill"
"Asian Rut"
"Margaret On The Guillotine"
"Bengali In Platforms"
"Ouija Board, Ouija Board"

lol xpost

Dudes, "Unhappy Birthday" is brilliant.

hahaha maybe if you are 12

I'm not sure what's more abject on "Asian Rut": the lyrics, Morrissey's singing, or those strings.

Yeah, I don't understand the crucifixion of 'Unhappy Birthday' either.

Seriously, it's a great song. Are the lyrics ridiculous? OF COURSE, but that's what makes Morrissey great.

It's not like Prince hasn't done any embarrassing bullshit but come on. "Unhappy Birthday"? Aren't you the one who's always telling people to raise their standards? How can you fall for lowest-common denominator pandering bullshit like that?

A grown man has no business writing those words.

Morrissey writing "Unhappy Birthday," that is, not Dan's response.

Declaration: Morrissey has never written anything as abjectly embarassing as "Partyman" or "Darling Nikki" that got me laid.

After that Batman soundtrack, Prince should have been fed to pack of famished hyenas.

"Unhappy Birthday" might have been relegated to the discard pile had it not been for the contributions of Mr. Marr, but the ridiculousness of the lyric "...and if you should die, I may feel slightly sad but I won't cry" are so goddman hilarious I can't stand it. Grow a sense of humor.

Is that all you require of music -- that it gets you laid? Pfft.

lowest-common denominator pandering bullshit

Remember, you're the one defending the "this music gets me laid" faction, not me.

Morrissey has more goddamn hilarious lyrics on Strangeways than that tripe: "I Started Something..." and "Death of a Disco Dancer," for starters.

Remember, you're the one defending the "this music gets me laid" faction, not me.

That was me, not Dan. And I'm just being a jerk.

I'm not defending any "faction", I am defending a superlative musical talent who has recently started sucking against an excellent lyrical talent who started sucking in 1987.

Incidentally, I think we're straying from the original debate. I can't think of a single artist who hasn't written a crap lyric at one point or another. Shouldn't we be looking at the gestalt of these artists' work?

actually v. important point in this bit - Morrissey sets up his persona so nicely that when he's being ridiculous, it's part of the schtick - part and parcel of the whole poetic effort a fair bit of the time. (Not always; when he misses, it registers.) Whereas when Prince gets ridiculous, he can't really legitimately claim "part of the whole deal is to notice that I'm poking fun at myself, or at the 'myself' I've set up in my work."

Having said that, "Still Ill" is a beautiful lyric about being closeted - I have always been really moved by "in a darkened underpass/I thought: 'oh God, my chance has come at last'/but then a strange fear gripped me and I just couldn't ask."

but yeah Alex is right: the "who has sunk lower?" argument is really not a good one - it doesn't really answer the question "who's better?"

Declaration: Morrissey has never written anything as abjectly embarassing as ... "Darling Nikki"

― Alex in NYC, Tuesday, April 14, 2009 6:23 AM Bookmark

You'd probably do well not to use one of Prince's best in your example of Embarrassing Prince Songs.

(Full disclosure: I didn't notice that Morrissey sucked until 1989; I used to like Viva Hate a lot and I still have fondness for 3 of its songs, but a large portion of that is tied to me being an agnsty 15-year-old when it came out, which is really the only circumstance under which I understand liking something like "Margaret On The Guillotine".)

"Still Ill" is a little unfair of me, probably. I just hate that song, mostly because of the way he sings it.

Having said that, "Still Ill" is a beautiful lyric about being closeted - I have always been really moved by "in a darkened underpass/I thought: 'oh God, my chance has come at last'/but then a strange fear gripped me and I just couldn't ask."

This is "There is a Light That Never Goes Out," no?

And in all candor, comparing/contrasting the work of Morrissey vs. Prince is a bit ludicrous. For a start, Prince's output completely dwarfs Morrissey's (pardon the pun -- Prince being a runty midget and all). Secondly, as has been pointed out, their respective oeuvres serve rather entirely different ends. Morrissey doesn't make music for you to party and bump'n'grind to (although to each their own, i guess), and Prince doesn't seek to provide solace to the emotionally conflicted (or maybe he does, but i can't imagine any waifish wallflower finding any comfort in "Diamonds & Pearls"). They've both written legitimately timeless music, but they're ultimately apples and oranges.

You'd probably do well not to use one of Prince's best in your example of Embarrassing Prince Songs.

Honestly, you think that's one of his best? Really?

Prince doesn't seek to provide solace to the emotionally conflicted (or maybe he does, but i can't imagine any waifish wallflower finding any comfort in "Diamonds & Pearls").

This is not a dig at you, but Prince has made plenty of bedsit music as shattering as Morrissey; some have even been cited above. "When You Were Mine," "How Come U Don't Call Me Anymore," "Sometimes It Snows in April," "The Cross" are just a few examples.

Fair enough.

haha yes, stupid me, Alfred OTM (and that song is one of the ones I think of as one of The Smiths' best)

"Still Ill" is the "Does the body rule the mind\Or does the mind rule the body ?\I dunno..." one

They've both written legitimately timeless music, but they're ultimately apples and oranges.

This is very OTM, although this is not: Prince doesn't seek to provide solace to the emotionally conflicted

After my brother died, I spent three days playing "Sometimes It Snows In April" on endless repeat. Nothing else made me feel any better.

Yes, but by the same token, I'd wager that Prince is more renowned for his funkier stuff than for his laments. Likewise, while not everything Moz has done has been a depressive dirge, he's certainly not revered as a lord of the dancefloor.

I spent three days playing "Sometimes It Snows In April" on endless repeat. Nothing else made me feel any better.

John Coltrane's Blue Train does this for me. Off-topic, I know. Apologies.

(xp)

And "apples v. oranges" + "not a fair comparison of these artists" to this whole thread.

This is "There is a Light That Never Goes Out," no?

oh wait yes you're right. why have I conflated these two I wonder. oh wait! it's because of "under the iron bridge, we kissed/and although I ended up with sore lips/it just wasn't like the old days any more" - same underpass in my mind

Honestly, you think that's one of his best? Really?

alex, do you hate darling nikki because it's fake metal? it's got to be his most metal riff, and it's got that double bass drum break...

or because the foo fighters covered it?

It's just a dumb song.

nah wai bumbleclot it's super amazing!

it's got to be his most metal riff

As if.

lol

I am far more of a Morrissey (or The Smiths, tbh) fan than a Prince fan but how can one really hate on 'Darling Nikki'?

ask tipper gore

but how can one really hate on 'Darling Nikki'?

For a start, I'm not hating on anything, I'm simply hating. The only thing I'm on is this chair. Secondly, I'm not even really hating. I just think the song in question is indicative of Prince's rather shoddily expressed need for everyone to examine how sexy he believes himself to be. And I'm sorry, but I find that rather dull as dishwater. In turn, you may be similarly put off by Morrissey's arguable penchant for informing the world of how miserable he is. Again, apples and oranges.

I kind of thought the whole point of that song was how sexy Nikki was, since he spends the whole time talking about her and not himself.

He's still the one singing.

And you're still the one not making sense wrt this song.

The point I'm making is that I find Prince's songs about sex (and there's a lot of them) kinda boring and pathetic.

alex likes angry music, not sexy music

For the most part that's true, but I think sexy music shouldn't have to try so hard.

I really, really like Prince. But I'm gonna sorta side w/ Alex - his lyrics being 80% of the time about sex = probably my biggest problem with listening to him.

basically my quota for listening to prince-like music is way higher than my quota for listening to darling nikki-esque lyrics.

Everybody knows Prince's most metal riff is "Bambi"!

Serious question, then: what is Morrissey's most metal moment? (Despite my lol carping upthread I do like some of the Smiths and solo stuff but I clearly don't know it well enough to answer this question myself.)

I really, really like Prince. But I'm gonna sorta side w/ Alex - his lyrics being 80% of the time about sex = probably my biggest problem with listening to him.

so is 80% of music!

yeah but + subtlety

s "Bambi"!

Serious question, then: what is Morrissey's most metal moment?

this answer owes more to xhuk's understanding of the term "metal" than I will admit under oath, but: "The Boy Racer" is pretty goddamn metal imo

^^^^^ by far my favorite track from the post-Vauxhall wilderness years.

Morrissey's most metal moment?

I'd cite "The Teachers are Afraid of the Pupils," the opening cut off Southpaw Grammar

your arsenal is sort of pre-metal glammy power chord

shit on the new album sounds like LA metal, soundwise

Eeek. I haven't heard it, but that doesn't exactly compell me to.

mostly just the production and the guitar tone, not really the songwriting

I kind of like it.

i can see moz really really loving bullet boys and and la guns and stuff!

He'd probably love Bullet Boys and L.A. Guns too.

all this time and you're making a capitalization joke now?

look who thinks he's the big dick mcgee of capitalization?

That joke isn't funny anymore.

too near the bone?

What difference does it make?

http://www.falmouthvisitor.com/images/McGee%20and%20Co.jpg

That joke isn't funny anymore.

Bahahahahahahahahaha

Was I your every fantasy?
That's why, until the end of time
I'll be there 4 U
U own my heart and mind
I truly adore U
If God one day struck me blind
Your beauty I'd still see
Love is 2 weak 2 define
Just what U mean 2 me
When we be makin' love (When we be makin' love)
I only hear the sounds
Heavenly angels cryin' up above
Tears of joy pourin' down on us
They know we need each other
They know U are my fix (I know)
I know, that U know that I ain't cheatin' baby
They know this is serious
I ain't funkin' just 4 kicks
No, this condition I got is crucial, crucial baby
U could say that I'm a terminal case
U could burn up my clothes (U could burn up my clothes)
Smash up my ride (U could smash up..) Well maybe not the ride...

see, PRINCE is just laying it on thick for the girl. He wants in and out fast, so that he can get back in his ride and be on his way. He has other things to do, but the girl has to be conquered first. How do music critics come on to girls? Maybe with their encyclopedic knowledge of '78-81 post-punk?

with their measured analysis of prince lyrics

by using Morrissey's adverb-to-adjective ratio.

man first time i met my wife i was choppin' up some mad game about the comsat angels...poor girl couldn't help herself

see, PRINCE is just laying it on thick for the girl. He wants in and out fast, so that he can get back in his ride and be on his way. He has other things to do, but the girl has to be conquered first.

this isn't what the song is about in any way, shape, or form

it is in way, but not in shape or form

No, not in its way, either. He doesn't want in and out fast; he offers to let her crash his car and then backs off on that. It's a pledge of lifetime devotion; any other way of hearing it is, to be charitable, willful.

a pledge of lifetime devotion is what the woman wants to hear, so this could get circular. I guess my point is PRINCE has things in perspective. It might seem like he's over the top, but I'll bet it's finely measured.

Okay I am going to try, try to capture some good Morrissey lyrics for folks. But it's hard because I'm lazy and I feel like people should know this if they care about his music either with or without the Smiths.

For starters:
"And the pain was enough to make a shy, bald buddhist reflect and plan a mass murder"

bad terry pratchett opening line

Well, what about

So, I broke into the palace
With a sponge and a rusty spanner
She said : "Eh, I know you, and you cannot sing"
I said : "That's nothing - you should hear me play piano"

Or "Frankly Mr Shankly"?

Thanks Sundar!

No, not in its way, either. He doesn't want in and out fast; he offers to let her crash his car and then backs off on that. It's a pledge of lifetime devotion; any other way of hearing it is, to be charitable, willful.

I was just goofin on the phrase "way shape or form"

"Trudging slowly over wet sand
Back to the bench where your clothes were stolen"

^it getz no ruffer

"No, I've never had a job...because I'm too shy"

^dude is super funny too, which some ppl never seem to understand

Whereas Prince is rarely (intentionally) funny.

Dude, you need to spend more time with Prince. Seriously. Off the top of my head, "Sister," "Head," "International Lover," all have good lines and are self-deprecating.

Fair enough. I haven't really listened to a second of the man's music post his "artist"/symbol days.

those songs are all from '82 or earlier

but anyway prince is pretty ridic, but at his best i can't see not loving his whole sex gnome new wave electro funk boy genius schtick, esp the classic era shit. i mean, it's like yeah it's silly and awesome and he's a crazy egomaniac but isn't that the point?

Ha, that "never had a job because I'm too shy" line gets in my head like everyday.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I don't even want to know the results of this. Anyone who has heard the Morrissey b-sides "Disappointed" and "Will Never Marry" knows who should win this poll.

"Such A Little Thing Makes Such A Big Difference" notwithstanding.

"wielding a bicycle chain
why won't you change
change and be nice
Leave me alone/I was only singing..."

For me it's that melodic thing right after that when he goes "ah ah ah ah ah ah" that seals the deal for me. It's the melody he spins with his voice, right there.

"Drank too much and I said too much and there's nowhere to go but down"

"Young girl, one day you will be old/but the thing is, I love you now/
This is the last song I will ever sing/oh I've changed my mind again/good night and thank you"

not selling me at all

Everyone knows those songs and we still prefer Prince

I can't help if if you're insane.

Woo Morrisey's sad, if yr scared of sex he wins easy I guess. Personally my life got a lot better once I switched my default preferences from indie Morrissey types to Prince type stuff, really (not that I don't love Morrissey! Once you've been dumped by the girl you talked to cos Prince gve you the balls to do it he comes in v handy).

Insane? Or sober?

Both?

I mean, this is pretty funny when I think about it. You've just called me drunk and afraid of sex and afraid to break up with a girl. I've just called you insane. We're really getting somewhere, I reckon.

Oh I didn't mean to! I thought you were usually drunk on ILX, tho. Also I don't understand how anyone could pick M over P except for some reason like that, honestly. Tbh it was Alex in NYC who was being weird about sex, really.

Regardless of who wins this poll I think we can all agree that it was a big mistake that Prince and Morrissey never co-starred in a mid 90s NBC Thursdays sitcom (working title: "Is It Really So Strange") about two guys from opposite backgrounds living together.

or, failing that, that bimble and niles weren't offered the parts.

Usually drunk on ILX: affirmative.

Alex In NYC being weird about sex: LOL Wtf??? Where?

Cunga: OTM

Episode: "Let's Spend The Night 2gether" PLOT RECAP: Roger (Morrissey) attempts to finish a Phillip Larkin biography in time to catch "Rebel Without A Cause" on TV, but little did he know that roommate Jules (Prince) is hosting the weekly orgy at their flat that night. GUEST STAR Terrance Stamp.

Oh just the oversexed thing he brings up couple times, I think. It could be that I'm oversexed myself I guess

listening to prince'll do that to ya

I would have gladly watched this sitcom !

yes but the character names must be changed to Stephen and Christopher...

Oh just the oversexed thing he brings up couple times, I think. It could be that I'm oversexed myself I guess

Thanks so much for misrepresenting me. Really appreciate that. My point was that the majority of Prince's output (up until becoming a Jehovah's Witness) was primarily about sex. I don't think that observation makes me "weird about sex."

morrissey isn't that shy about sex anymore he had all that sexed up talk on you are the quarry like there's a powder keg between my legs or something, coulda sworn bon scott ghost wrote that from the grave

interesting, alex, interesting. vy do you think you're so defenzive about being veird about zex?

Bimble, full disclosure here, you'd vote Clan of Xymox over Prince, right?

I'm guessing Bimble would vote Nasa over Prince.

Of course I would, John D. Never heard of Nasa, though.

http://www.amazon.com/Insha-Allah-Nasa/dp/B000008IT3

Sadly, I can't find any audio clips anywhere.

Just to make sure we are all on the same page this is NOT the same Nasa as the Swedish synth-pop group. The two artists have the same name, but VERY different music.

This Nasa's music has to be one of the more unique styles of hard rock out there. Imagine tablas and dombeks playing rhythms with melodis sitars and accompanied surnas. Then add some synthesized strings playing Middle Eastern melodies with some techno bass line or embellishments. In the middle of all this put solid-as-steel power rock chords and hard rock vocals you get a good idea what this album is about.

Sounds like a mess? Far from it. All of these elements weave in and out and meld together with deliberate precision. Bandmates Momo and Cash knew what they were doing and enlisted the help of some great talent like ex-Cult drummer Les Warner, Killing Joke bassist Paul Raven, and Isreali superstar Ofra Haza (RIP). The music packs a lot of punch and is practically in your face about it. The music is also very dancey and 80's techno fans might appreciate the rock/electronic/world hybrid sound. The lyrics have as much arabic references as the music does. While most of the time the lyrics won't be considered high concept they fare much better than most glam rock offerings.

I consider every song on this album great in some shape or fashion. In spite of me crooning about this being an aggressive sounding album it actually has some variety within its own hybrid sound. Here's a breakdown of the more notable tracks:

SHA SHA - Probably the most obvious example of the rock/arabian/techno hybrid style. This was song they released as a single. I don't consider this the best representation of the band's sound, but it is the archetype.

WOMAN - This is a slower song that reminds me of Lawrence of Arabia. The vocals work for the most part until you get to the song's bridge, which then sounds too harsh. In spite of that shortcoming it's still a very lush and atmospheric song.

MAGIC JEWELLED LIMOUSINE - This is the kind of song I can really appreciate both artistically and as a listener. The song shifts gears from a breezy middle eastern vibe to a hard edged rock tune to a chorus that I can only decribe as an update to an early 70's hook. Very nice.

UFO OVER CAIRO - This song shifts gears in a heavy way. First gear is a slow and mechanical metal trip. The second gear is overdrive as you kick into punkish dissonant metal madness. I would call the second part speed metal only in that the tempo difference is drastic between the two 'gears'.

SEROPHIA - The most catchy song in the album. This should have been their single release. It's the most dance-oriented song in the bunch too and it's a shame I never heard it at the clubs during this time. Probably the most pop-friendly song in the set as well without really being pop.

WILD WAYS - The only song in this album that doesn't have any persian instruments. All guitar rock with a little keyboard accents. That doesn't mean the middle eastern flavor is gone. Just pounded into electric guitars instead of sitars. Musically this is a great song that makes perfect use of the hard lines and catchy melodies Nasa put together. Another contender for a single release.

INSHA-ALLAH - The cream of the crop. This is the song that got me to buy this CD and it is still the absolute king of the hill. Nasa's hybrid sound comes to full bloom. No single element is dominant. Arabic instruments and synths take you there. Techno elements keep the song driving. The rock power chords and electric guitar solos keep it real. You can tell this song got the most attention in the studio and the pay off is big. If there is any reason to get this album the title track is it... in spades.

If you are into 80's hard rock you will probably need to have an open mind with this one considering the mix of genres. Anybody with any ecclectic tastes will love this album. As will old club goers who enjoyed dancing to The Cult and Danielle Dax. This is a rare gem, and at the current prices it's an absolute steal. Don't delay. Buy it!!

(NOTE: This album is not a rare gem, it is a bag of shit.)

As will old club goers who enjoyed dancing to The Cult and Danielle Dax.

lol who danced to The Cult?

I danced to She Sells Sanctuary at the club a few months ago.

there you go, Alfred

TS: any warmed-over derivative dull-as-toast English act from the Sainted 80s vs. Prince

J0hn I think you missed this scathing satire from Tuesday:

Taking Sides: Random White Indie-Leaning Artist vs Random Black Pop-Leaning Artist

lol who danced to The Cult?

btw guilty as charged, She Sells Sanctuary was a straight-up awesome post-midnight/pre-2 a.m. track at the City Niteclub in Portland, where I danced Thursday through Sunday in '85/'86, along with many extremely fabulous friends, all of whom knew that no matter how much we loved our fresh British import 12"s, not a one of them could hope to hold a candle to "Erotic City," one of Prince's b-sides, for Christ's sake

xpost lol Dan

Yeah, I remember 'She Sells Sanctuary' in nightclubs.

I remember thinking "wow I'm glad I'm at a nightclub that's playing DJ Dick and not 'She Sells Sanctuary'".

Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah? Well, I remember thinking "Man, I hear it's fucking brutally cold in Minneapolis. Maybe we don't get to hear those awesome DJ Dick singles, but at least we're not freezing our nuts off."

touche

douche

ferme la bouche

wow... i remember insha-allah from this...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411VWN1HS3L._SL500_AA240_.jpg

and yup definitely remember hearing "she sells sanctuary" up in the club back in the day

nothing is more important than what is songs are hypothetically being danced to at clubs we don't actually ever go to by fictional argument settling dancers

To be fair, I danced to "Unskinny Bop" several times.

The Coldcut remix?

Frankie Knuckles.

One Japanese import had Bernard Sumner rapping.

was that vini reilly/jellybean benetiz record any good?

Wow -- did we just get a "Sha Sha" allusion here? Holy crap.

Oh, what a tangled thread we weave.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Finally!

oh look, ilx is right

um also the fact that this wasnt a landslide = CRAZY TALK

If Moz had won this, I wouldn't have been able to relate to ilm on a very fundamental level.

Prince 98
Morrissey 62

this fucking place sometimes ... i mean, Morrissey is good (even great). but he's not even close to being in the same league w/ Prince -- Prince should be compared to the likes of the Beatles, PFunk, Bowie, and not some British guy who's been basically releasing the same record over and over for the past 20 years.

Morrissey without even the slightest momentary hesitation.

― Alex in NYC, Saturday, April 11, 2009 5:05 PM

this is like meeting libs who voted for Reagan in '84.

yeah, for some reason i thought that Alex liked Prince more than he apparently does. perhaps if he's still around and feels so inclined, he can explain his logic?!?

He's hilarious on the Bowie vs Prince thread, in which he also chooses....someone not Prince.

I do like Prince. I just happen to like Morrissey more (although not lately). It's just my own preference.

Prince's recent stoner-metal makeover of "Let's Go Crazy" is better than anything Morrissey's done in a dang long time, I'll say that.

Meanwhile...

...as any sane, awake, cognizant being with a brain and even an iota of sense & taste would. I mean, Prince plays his guitar well and sure can pick out fetching pairs of assless pants, but Bowie's so far above that overrated, oversexed, Bible-poisoned newt that his ears must be popping.

No wonder people think I'm an asshole. Well, I do still genuinely prefer Bowie to Prince, but I can see how opinions expressed in this manner would piss people off.

I forget that I should stay away from ILX. Bye again.

no don't go!

this thread is admittedly hilarious but it's a bit misconceived -- prince vs. the smiths would be more of a fair fight, morrissey without the smiths is just a very odd old guy who keeps getting interviewed for some reason.

Blimey, I was going to Add AlexNY to the 'sadly missed' milk carton thread, and boom!

62 ilxors are/were insane.

I have a strong suspicion that Prince passing away prior to COVID and the current political moment saved us from some not-great opinions he would have had.

Wow...what would a redo of this poll yield? Suspect it'd be a lot more lopsided now.

62 ILMers wanted to see Morrissey in assless pants.

Prince could sing "Piccadilly Palare" and "Glamorous Glue," but let's hear Morrissey sing "Gett Off" or "Delirious."

62 ILMers wanted to see Morrissey in assless pants.

― hungover beet poo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

well he certainly does spend a lot of time showing his ass

let's hear Morrissey sing "Gett Off" or "Delirious."

― hungover beet poo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, September 4, 2025 1:46 PM (thirty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol i would love to hear this

have you heard Bowie's cover of "Sexy MF"?

I have a strong suspicion that Prince passing away prior to COVID and the current political moment saved us from some not-great opinions he would have had.

That's for sure - just look what happened with the Netflix doc and some of the stuff his estate objected to showing. (Not that much of it was a secret, but some of it clearly wasn't that well-known given the reaction even Questlove had.)

It's kind of well known Prince was as much - if not worse - as an insufferable asshole as Morrissey is.

I like The Smiths music fine, but going for musical achievements and influence alone these two aren't really comparable to me.

My only response to how monstrous Prince could be: Sinéad O'Connor.

Yeah I wont defend him as a person - I think most famous artists are terrible people.

coughing baby v. hydrogen bomb

Pains me to say this, but I think Prince might've been worse to be around. Morrissey's said much more vile things, but Prince would actually intimidate and lash out at people, even physically. There's just way too many anecdotes from those who worked with him, many of which came out right after he died.

Definitely.

From descriptions on the shelved documentary I can gather it’s a study on how fame can amplify the most toxic narcissistic traits of an artist.

With Prince you had a persona he created to control the perception of him and those around him. With Morrisey you get a more authentic kind of asshole. With Prince you were never seeing the real person behind it.

Maybe someone who knows more about Morrissey can answer, but I never got the impression Morrissey was really intimidating, much less terrifying. Obnoxious, infuriating, deceitful (see what the judge wrote of him when he lost his royalties case against Mike Joyce)...all reason enough to avoid him...but I don't know of any stories where people were fearful of him the way Prince's associates were of him.

Real person? How do you mean?

It seems bizarre to me anyone who was a 'fan' or whatever would think he was anything other than completely insane, intense and a total nightmare. It's all there in his work too, I mean Purple Rain (the film) ffs.

Surprising Questlove and the like are all like 'on a pedestal' etc. Musically, sure. But the bizarre combination of where he grew up, violence at home, his issues with himself and confidence and then getting that famous, that young. If you haven't checked out the Susan Rogers interviews I think she puts it best, doesn't make excuses for him, but basically "His life was very complicated and very sad... He could be an asshole and he could also be the best."

Got 'Princed' once when I got a guest list for a show and passed by him as he came off stage, my body language must've said 'I wanna say hello!'... Got a look that said "what you looking at, honky' lol and yeah... Prince, eh.

(I pretty much listened exclusively to Prince, Hendrix and err, Eric Clapton, lol till I was early teens and found this board back in 2000, ha. My first post..)

Re: “the real person”

I’m going from reviews of the documentary: it is explored that Prince had some deep trust issues so he hated feeling vulnerable and losing so he carefully curated this “persona”. The documentary explores the situations that created these deeply rooted insecurities and how he concealed them and as a consequence made him an intense, controlling and even violent nightmare of a person when things weren’t going his way or he got challenged about anything.

The only way he knew how to be vulnerable was through his music.

https://i.imgur.com/0X4CRsP.gif

xpost

yeah that makes total sense. also corroborated by people around him re: the huge change he went through after those initial interviews where he looks like he's having a full on panic attack.

the estate is a total shitshow, i think they were posting AI garbage recently. a real shame about the doc, because it sounds like

my sis always jokes prince was our family 'religion' growing up- i was completely obsessed with him and his music and by proxy hendrix, sly, stevie, parliament, funkadelic, earth wind and fire, ohio players etc. bullied to fuck at school for it 'ur gay for liking this' 'he had his rib removed to suck his own dick' etc. so it completely sucks to hear it went a lot deeper than him just being a typical ego-maniac asshole and was abusive to women / people around him. essentially ended up like his father, which, as anyone with family trauma like that can probably relate, is a worst nightmare.

i grew up in the most racist / awful part of the UK and pretty grateful to him for the whole 'black, white puerto-rican' - 'am I black/white straight/gay' gender exploration / sun-ra-esque music 'spirituality' and devotion to the art form and stuff- completely shaped who i am- otherwise reckon i'd be typically corny indie fuxxor to use the old terminology here, haha, and i'd have voted morrissey on this thread. i only found this place back then because he mentioned cocteau twins' garlands as an influence, which led to me discovering MBV and then Ned's blog and freaky trigger. the only other place I went on the internet back then was alt.music.prince!

anyway, maybe I'm grown up enough to post here now, i did back then in 2001/2 and got the early version of the treatment a certain oxbridge educated chap got a few years later and couldn't deal with it. and i don't write much so usually come across as an idiot, lol.

the only morrissey thing I like is that cover by schneider tm of 'there is a light' and the original song too. on the list to check out at some point, but recently (after being told repeatedly i'd love em) got into felt / lawrence - who weirdly reminds me of prince in a lot of ways and that's enough to satisfy the itch in that world, also seems like maurice was a huge influence on marr and was talking to deb g recently who was saying that kevin mbv is a huge huge fan, which all makes sense. okay, this is why I shouldn't post here, what a tangent. haha.

* because it sounds like its not some attack on him, but just the whole picture...

Yeah from what I gather the documentary is actually really good at putting into context the music he was making and what he was going through at the time and it’s not an attack on him it rather reveals the person behind the mask and how alienating and destructive fame can become.

So anyways, comparing which one of these two was/is the worst person isn’t really what I’d rank in here. Prince’s output for me towers way above what Morrissey has ever done and the amount of artists I love he influenced makes it a no contest for me.

Lovely post, foghorn.

Yeah I agree you shouldn’t post less, you should post more.

Agree

Loved that, foghorn

co-sign, great post foghorn