The Beatles 1970 albums poll

Plastic Ono by miles and miles.

HARD POLL!

All Things Must Pass perhaps.

I know these all have their fans on ILM, but I still follow the "canon" and go for "All Things Must Pass" here. Even though it contains no less than two legal ripoffs, plus I hardly ever play the last two sides, the first four sides are still so strong on fantastic material. Obviously he had a wealth of underrated stuff yet to become released until he went solo.

Plastic Ono Band by a hair over All Things Must Pass, which certainly is fantastic 'til you hit the last few songs.

I had LP3 from a junk shop.

I got the CD set more recently, wasn't struck with it greatly, but enjoyed the jam tracks again. Yep, I'm strange.

Guess i have to vote Let it be, as I don't have the others.

i only have "plastic ono band" and "let it be". of those two plastic ono wins by a landslide. "the long and winding road" totally pollutes "let it be" for me. what a stinker. "across the universe" is one of my top ten beatles songs on the other hand.

That dude's getting his own thread.

All Things Must Pass - no contest for me

plastic ono band, for sure.

i love 'let it be' though, always been my least-listened to beatles album and thus one that's good to put on b/c i haven't heard the songs 1000x (minus maybe 'let it be', tho the album version is better and different than the one you hear on the radio.)

'all things must pass' just seems so monochrome and dreary to me. there just seems to be little variety on it, i don't know. cliched to say it but i wish it was a single album

haven't listened to 'mccartney' enough to say anything about it...

mccartney is a great little record really.
all things must pass is the one i listen to the least.
and the winner, for me, is plastic ono band.

Plastic Ono Band by quite a wide margin.

also (XPOST): waddya mean "sorry ringo no solo album for you this year"? there were actually 2, weren't there? not that i'd fancy voting for them or somethung, but-t-t-t...

^^^yeah what the hell

can we all agree that the worst one here is easily McCartney...? I think the first Plastic Ono Band album is great but its strengths are also in some ways its faults - sure its nakedly emotional and autobiographical, the sound is raw and spare and ragged, there's some great playing... at the same time its a deeply egocentric album, its anchored entirely by the John Lennon "cult of personality" dynamic and in that sense some of the songwriting seems pretty lazy and infantile. All Things Must Pass by comparison is EPIC - there's slight tunes and goofy jokes on it, but the scale and range of songs presented is fantastic, and the overall sound is rich and dense. Kinda nuts that Spector had a hand in both considering how different in approach they are - Harrison's album sounds like its recorded by a whole bunch of people who all love George and want him to succeed and give their best. POB sounds like its recorded by the handful of people who could stand to be around Lennon at the time.

I've read that Spector actually had very little to do with Plastic Ono Band and only present at a few of the sessions.

Plastic Ono Band, but weren't there two of those that year??

I believe you're thinking of Yoko Ono and the Plastic Ono Band which came out in 1971.

never knew that!
http://www.discogs.com/Yoko-Ono--Plastic-Ono-Band-Yoko-Ono-Plastic-Ono-Band/release/460472

what's yoko's like?
xpost

Wiki says Yoko's Plastic Ono Band came out Dec 11, 1970; amazon and the discogs link above both say 1970, too. (But yeah, that's what I was talking about. So which one are we voting for, again?)

FYI - Yoko wasn't in the Beatles chuck.

Yoko's album is great. Krautrock grooves, some quiet plinky piano songs, shrieking.

^You had me sold until "shrieking."

I'm going Let it Be. "The Long and Winding Road" notwithstanding (easily rock-bottom Beatles I never have to hear again), there's a lotta good stuff on it.

I still love POB but its appeal has diminished for me over time, for all the reasons Shakey OTM Collier outlined. I've never gone gaga for ATMP the way everyone else has; despite a few outstanding cuts it seems turgid and samey, even discounting the neverending "bonus material." And I've never heard McCartney, nor have I ever heard a persuasive argument why I should bother doing so.

mccartney has my favorite solo paul song, "every night." the rest is pretty nice too.

Harrison's album sounds like its recorded by a whole bunch of people who all love George and want him to succeed and give their best. POB sounds like its recorded by the handful of people who could stand to be around Lennon at the time.

this is beautifully said. pob is brilliant for what it is, but i hardly ever feel like listening to it.

^You had me sold until "shrieking."

no its great, really!! The first track is called "Why" and is a krautrock groove with Yoko wailing "why?" over and over. The second track is called "Why Not?" and... well you get the idea.

plus a collab with Ornette Coleman!

(which is a little underwhelming but still interesting - Ornette Coleman playing with former Beatles, you gotta give Yoko credit for a genius move like that)

can we all agree that the worst one here is easily McCartney...?

McCartney isn't really that bad per se (apart from some atrocious drumming in one or two spots) it's just kind of slight. There's a bunch of half-formed ideas on it and then the obligatory big-pop moment of "Maybe I'm Amazed", its very slapdash (its follow-up, Ram, is exponentially better). Compared to the grandiosity of ATMP and the soul-shredding of POB McCartney doesn't really have much to offer in terms of a fully realized, well-executed vision.

I'm almost tempted to vote Let it Be bcz of "two of Us" which is easily one of the best songs that any of these here Beatles ever participated in...

Plastic Ono Band, although i don't whip these albums out often. I can't stand George's voice for more than four songs.

ATMP, for the reasons Shakey mentioned upthread.

i really like McCartney, like, a lot; it's one of my favorite records. all of the solo albums are better than Let it Be. POB wins though.

Voted for Plastic Ono Band the Yoko Ono version.

wait forgot about "Two Of Us". shit, its too late...

yea 'two of us' is great, i've always liked 'dig a pony' a lot too

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

McCartney is a very pleasant listen, and sustains a mood much more coherently than any of the others. But it doesn't have the songs (with a few obvious exceptions) and it's a really odd thing to release as one's self-titled debut. It would make a great deal more sense if this were called Ram and Ram were McCartney but so it goes. It's funny how pristine both albums sound, though - the whole down-home Polaroid ambience that surrounds both is a matter of songs, content, and visuals but the recordings are actually very very clean (compared to, say, Wild Life or for that matter Plastic Ono Band.)

I admire POB more than I actually enjoy listening to it...but here obviously enjoyment isn't so much the point. The other three are pretty firmly within the "collection of good songs" model, obviously with other symbolism attached having to do with liberation or moving on from the 60s or whatever, but POB is eleven tracks of challops and therapy that seem to accidentally turn into really great songs from time to time, ie "Mother" and "I Found Out" and... well, that's about it. Okay, "Well Well Well" is good too. I dunno. I just don't end up wanting to put this on the turntable very often.

All Things Must Pass is pretty damn good but it's been years since I sat down and listened to the whole thing. I can definitely count way more highs on this thing than on any of the other albums and god does it sound great, on every track. I mean, not even the standouts or intended singles on any of the other records sound anything close to as good as "Awaiting On You All" for example. This is probably the best album here but I feel weird voting for something where off the top of my head I can only name like five or six songs. So... I vote for Let It Be, which, I mean, whatever its faults, it's the fucking Beatles. At WORST it's the best band in history moonlighting as a kind of uninspired garage band. I would buy six more albums like that if they'd made them!

You need to put POB on the turntable more often. "God" has one of the most impressive vocals John ever recorded. "Hold On" is a perfect little song. "Look at Me" is a reminder that no one on Earth really knows what the fuck they're doing. "Well Well Well" and "I Found Out" may be my least favorite tracks, actually (not counting "Power to the People", of course)!

"Power to the People" isn't on the album though...?

Yeah, I probably sell POB sort of short here, I haven't really articulated why/how I'm lukewarm on it. It's not bad, really.

It's on the CD reissue of it, which is how I heard POB the first million times, so I got used to getting up early to turn the CD off after "My Mummy's Dead".

Probably the worst/"least appropriate" extra track ever.

Yeah, what the hell? Makes more sense to include it on Some Time in NYC.

I was having trouble deciding when I thought we were talking about Yoko's Plastic Ono Band. Once I realized that, I went Let It Be. Definitely have a fondness for all of these... though John's probably the least, strangely enough.

I love All Things Must Pass but the 'jam' stuff really lets it down. Got to go with Plastic Ono Band. All four of these are fascinating records, even if they're not all great listens.

I choose just to skip the "jam" stuff, and still have four sides full of great songs. "Plastic Ono Band" has "Love" and that's it.

Let It Be is minor Beatles, but minor Beatles is still better than 90% of most everything else. I just wish they had done more things like the guerrilla rooftop concert. It's one of the few times in the movie they look like they actually still enjoy playing together.

I vote for Ringo.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

ILM in agreeing

exactly

I've loved the Plastic One Band album from the day I first heard it in 1971, so (unless the Canon is emitting time-traveling mind-control tachyons) I don't think that explanation applies to me.

I did not vote it was too tuff

"Let It Down" off of ATMP is the blueprint for all post-Ladies and Gentlemen Spiritualized songs.

Wonder how 2023 ILM would come down on this one.

You mean, now ILM is flabby and middle aged?

There would be more of an outcry over Ringo's Sentimental Journey not being included.

I actually heard that for the first time recently. Hmmmmm. Not good.

Plastic Ono Band hands down.

If you exclude Let it Be, sure. Although I listen to McCartney more often.

By chanting the name of ILX you'll be free.

POB is the audio equivalent of that film john and yoko made about his dick struggling to get hard. janov (and heroin) really did a number on him - compare the lennon of 66-7 with this joyless prick

ATMP is very good but could be so much better without spector's wall of bullshit

mccartney is nice enough and the fact that he can obviously do better makes its whateverness kind of interesting

LIB has always been fundamentally incoherent as an album despite some strong songs because by the time spector came in they were more interested in scoring points than making a good beatle album

I guess george wins this year (and paul probably wins every year after) but the dream is definitely over by this point and they're all in pretty bad shape

I probably want to hear songs from ATMP more often

To hear that Harrison was in bad shape creatively in 1970 is a novel take.

he did a good job with his album (maybe too good, should have saved some of those songs for later) but afaict his personal life was a disaster

Well, sure, but we're not his gurus.

I think this is probably ATMP for me, only if you excise the jam album which is just boring. These are all good albums and the original Let is Be is better than it's reputation and continual remix/recontextualizations would have you think.

FWIW, Harrison's been consistently on record from the start that the third disc was intended as a free "bonus" and didn't think of it as part of the album proper. (He also added that Capitol ignored his request and increased the price of the set accordingly.) I've always ignored that disc anyway, but it's nice knowing that ATMP was really a double LP.

And I always thought the Beatles had the material for what would've been a great album in 1970, but they just went through too much shit to stick the landing by sequencing one themselves instead of leaving it all to Glyn Johns or Phil Spector (though to their credit, Johns and Spector collectively finalized definitive versions of pretty much every available song). I compiled a different album for myself, so I've always thought of Get Back/Let It Be as a great album even though what I listen to isn't what was ever released.

Ram >>>> McCartney

listening to "Hold On" the other day I was surprised to hear a lot of McCartney in it, the bridge/chorus very strong Paul vibes for me

"cookie" though...

that's a total mccartney move - I doubt lennon was watching sesame street with julian

the bridge melody is a lennon melody (like the verses of dear prudence and cry baby cry) but the delivery is mccartney-esque and the universalised self-soothing aspect is something I associate much more with mccartney

"ram on" is definitely an homage titlewise and (maybe) themewise/moodwise - I think paul liked the song a lot unlike much of POB

I'm with him - hold on and (beatle john reject) look at me are great and dreamy/sad/unguarded lennon is so much more likeable than screamo lennon or messianic lennon

Paul secretly writing Hold On and slipping in a Muppet reference that John was unaware of is certainly a take.

if people are going to make up more deranged versions of my posts I might as well go all the way and say that almost all of lennon's great songs are mccartney cowrites and mccartney/martin productions

what I meant was the I could hear the cookie thing on wild life where it would be much less out of place (and therefore less funny/cool)

in case I sound like a total paul stan I do think "in my life" is *much* more john than paul, lyrically and melodically (but one-man songs aside it was always both of them throughout the 60s, despite their later claims)

ftr I do think john probably did watch sesame street while high in bed with yoko

Imagine there’s no Snuffleupagus

Big Bird was naked.

Imagine there’s no Snuffleupagus

Going off on a tangent, but years ago, an older relative told me when he watched Sesame Street as a kid, Snuffleupagus was indeed "imaginary" - only Big Bird ever saw him - which was news to me. Then about five years ago, I found out that the reason why they made Snuffleupagus a tangible, physical character was because they were concerned that making everyone else doubt his existence would give children the wrong idea, as in no one, especially grown-ups, would believe them if they had something they needed to say, like someone doing something horrible or inappropriate to them. Startling to hear but made complete sense.

I remember him being imaginary, I missed out on the making him real part.

I don't remember ever being confused or alarmed, just frustrated that no one would believe Big Bird. Kind of like Horton Hears a Who.

Maybe that was the inspiration? But I can see how that frustration could play out terribly in real life - like if you try to tell a grown-up something and they're like "don't make up stories," and you think you know how it's going to play out so you decide to keep your mouth shut rather than risk frustration and humiliation.

(from disbelieving grown-ups that is)

90% of children's literature involves adults not believing children about something

the answer to this is still POB which invents post punk and has some of Johns best shit

xp moral of the story - don't make your kids read, let them watch TV.

all four are pretty good to great, i can't argue w/POB as the choice, i'd prob go with that one but i should relisten to all these at some point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRQsgCEs4mg

honestly a vast improvement

if there was ever a song/album in need of camping up

I should probably look into why I feel this weird sense of resentment about the whole thing

That's pretty terrible but might have worked if Harry Nilsson had sung it.

Shelby Lynne covered it for one of her albums as well. Put it on with some decent hopes only to be massively disappointed - fact that it was produced by Glen Ballard is no surprise. I loved I Am Shelby Lynne but I guess this is why I stopped following her work.

Streisand also did “Love” on the same album. She must’ve liked that POB album. The only McCartney song she ever did afaik is “Honey Pie.” She recorded “Isn’t It a Pity” but not the Harrison song, the one written by the Gershwins.

I remember a Dream Academy cover of "Love" briefly disturbing my college station in early '91.

I’m sorry you remember that, it sounds horrifying

oh yes, it had the funky drummer break and was going for the Baggy audience

YUP

I warned you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TFINRXx1hE

I thought it was my imagination that it also interpolated "#9 Dream."

wow that stinks

The Dream Academy covered this song on their album A Different Kind of Weather (1990), and also released as a single (CD, cassette, and vinyl formats are available).[5] The single featured a strong Indian theme throughout (evident in the music video). The song samples the "Funky Drummer" drum break. Like the album it was released on, it received mixed reviews. Many critics and fans felt that they over-stretched it.[6] The CD single included six different mixes of the song along with "Mordechai Vanunu", which was written for Mordechai Vanunu. A second B-side, called "The Demonstration", can be found on the UK CD single version. There are also exclusive remixes issued on the cassette and 12" single. As it turned out, this was the band's penultimate single and has an accompanying video that was shot in India.

i am unable to verify the claim that "many critics and fans felt that they over-stretched it"; the cite points to Tom Demalon's review for AllMusic, which instead avers that the album is "a graceful bow by Dream Academy that is a worthwhile addition to their catalog."

I acknowledge POB’s greatness while never wanting to hear it again. Too stark, too much pain. I have problems of my own, why do I want to listen to someone else’s etc

As penitence I shall wear an ugly Xmas sweater with the word “philistine” embroidered on it.

I’ve Got My Own Primal Scream Therapy Album To Do

they're all really good
except for mccartney. that's just good, which is about the lowest i can grade him. ringo is a bad album

to those of you out there reading this who have done a "ringo deep dive", i want to say hello to you and identify myself as one of those people who really had a bad reaction

anodyne is the best he achieved in his post-beatles years, and his beatles songs were good primarily because of what he didn't do. he's a great guy and a great tank engine though

take THAT ringo starr!

I like that Blast from Your Past compilation. I’d probably add “Goodnight Vienna” and maybe “Have You Seen My Baby” (which would’ve been feasible - the album would still be under 40 minutes). Ringo was good for novelties, and that compilation’s a solid and enjoyable collection of them.

McCartney has the best album cover

I'm pretty sure Lennon says "cookin'" not "cookie" and it's meant to be a 'old blues man' voice ala what Tom Waits started doing about 9 years later, not cookie monster. but I could be wrong.

ringo is a bad album

it's the best solo album he ever made! Ringo the 4th is a bad album.

Old Wave is a bad album too, but it didn’t stop me paying fifty bucks for a copy when I finally saw one in the wild.

I have done a Ringo deep dive. I retain few memories of it. Except the cocaine production on Ringo the 4th, that stuck with me.

man, I passed up buying Old Wave on vinyl when I saw a copy in 1986 and frankly never regretted it though it's really weird that I distinctly remember it. I've never bothered to listen to it.

Ringo is about to re-press his live at the Greek album in multiple color variants. Good for him I guess? I do have to say I did listen to his most recent EP and thought it was pretty good, better than anything else he's done in 40 years

The final version, take 32, had Lennon singing and playing guitar simultaneously, and the ad-libbed ‘cookie’, a reference to the Cookie Monster from Sesame Street. He subsequently double-tracked his vocals, adding a second ‘cookie’.

Sesame Street was first broadcast on 10 November 1969 in the US, and Lennon presumably watched it while undergoing Primal Therapy; his regression to childhood may have helped him make a connection with the show. Ringo Starr’s song ‘Early 1970’, the b-side of the April 1971 single ‘It Don’t Come Easy’, also contained a cry of ‘cookie’, during a verse about Lennon and Yoko Ono:

Laying in bed, watching TV, cookie!

https://www.beatlesbible.com/people/john-lennon/songs/hold-on/

This is not exactly going to be a hot take, but having been a Beatles fan for many years I recently set about exploring McCartney's solo discography for the first time and was shocked to discover how poor it is. With the exception of the Band on the Run album, there is virtually nothing there of any consequence. How on earth did someone who wrote or co-wrote some of the greatest songs of all time between 1962 and 1970 so comprehensively lose his inspiration?

I think that is a hot take. These days.

did you forget to listen to ram or something

Ram is terrible

Nah. It's quite easy to compile a playlist of his best stuff.

I think that would be a short playlist, but if you care to have a go, I'd love to re-evaluate his solo work.

ram is the best album mccartney ever made

This is not the first time anyone's done this.

mccartney's solo career is characterised by his quality control getting even worse than it was during the beatles but he still put out plenty of gems, even gems that sounded nothing much like his beatles work, just rarely all in one place. thankfully he did manage one perfect album in ram

thanks, I'll compile that and give it a through listen, maybe it will make more sense to me that way

xp

mccartney's solo career is characterised by his quality control getting even worse than it was during the beatles

But that's my point, his quality control during the Beatles was impeccable. there isn't one Paul song in the entire Beatles catalogue that I would be without.

if you are going to argue that say, "maxwell's silver hammer" is better than all of ram then i really don't know what to say

alfred's list doesn't even have all-time greats like "back seat of my car" or "silly love songs" in it

Yes, that is exactly what I am arguing. The same goes for "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da" and whatever other Paul-composed Beatles tracks that are usually dismissed as "slight".

xp

I have only recently discovered that there is as much good shit just from Wings than from everyone else's solo career put together, and a decent amount of it is beatle quality

I can only conclude that people have been letting the conventional wisdom dictated by 70s rock critics get in their heads to such a degree that they literally can't hear what he's putting down

The conventional wisdom dictated by 70s rock critics was more or less correct

it was bullshit and much of it was in misogyny and the weird complex rock dudes have always had about mccartney's popularity with women

I am baffled by these takes I've heard all my life which in retrospect come off as an elaborate projection-fantasy set in motion by the jealous guy and faithfully repeated by his disciples for decades

*rooted in

LOL, yeah, of course that's the reason.

Anyway, none of these guys had to write an entire album of songs when they were in the Beatle, and it turns out, when they had to do it in their solo careers, they couldn't pull it off

you honestly don't think that's a thing? read some of those reviews again and look at how often they imply his dick isn't working properly. look at which songs they single out for special opprobrium and what they're about xp

I really love this Taylor Parkes article about 70s McCartney

Listening to this music, one finds oneself asking time and time again: what the hell is this? What did he think he was doing? This need not be a negative response.

Though they feature a great many pale burlesques of funk or blues or disco or doo-wop, these records occupy a unique space within pop — in some ways, they're barely recognisable as pop music at all. Except in the most superficial sense, they bear no relation to the work of McCartney's contemporaries, nor to anything that came before (or has come since). Not because they're personal — McCartney let little of himself into his work — nor because they push back boundaries, or break new ground (they do neither). They just seem to ignore most of pop's basic obligations. Few of these songs mean anything at all; they're rarely exciting in a purely visceral sense; they never tell a story, or attempt to blow your mind; they're seldom uplifting, or plaintive, or gross. They are utterly useless objects, which seem content simply to exist. This is their (very) peculiar charm.

https://thequietus.com/articles/01922-paul-mccartney-the-beatles-wings-the-best-of

So 70s rock dudes didn't like pop music and love songs, is that a McCartney specific thing?

I like many points in that Quietus essay (which I read at the time) -- except its assumption that one must be "personal" or something in music.

to some extent yes because they came down so hard on the side of lennon in the post-beatle culture wars in which the mccartneys were "the establishment" xp

You want to talk about misogyny? Lennon was married to Yoko Ono.

I disagree about the personal thing - people assume because he channels his experiences and emotions through characters and facades and genre exercises that his music has nothing to say about those emotions and experinces.

for example his worship of / obsession with mothers and working women comes from somewhere real and deep

and he's not *just* fucking around when he does shit like helter skelter or monkberry moon delight (he is *also* fucking around but that's just how he makes music)

xp sure and his proudly self proclaimed feminism didn't seem to extend to other women except in theory (didn't even extend to yoko much of the time)

I'm not sure where you're getting the that Team Lennon was flourishing in the 70s. Which Lennon albums after "Imagine" got good reviews? His career was considered a disappointment afaict.

the early 70s were still very important for establishing many of the narratives that have persisted and if jann wenner hadn't fucked up with lennon remembers I think the mid 70s albums would have been much better reviewed

sometime in NYC not so much but that's a special case

That album alone changed attitudes to Lennon. The only Beatle whose career wasn't considered a major disappointment in the 70s was Ringo because nobody expected anything from him to begin with.

it's a bad album for many reasons but it's kind of sad that lennon fucked up the most when he tried to actually be the political radical that so many boomers still remember him as

I hate to be a Ram nag, anagram (I’m usually more of a raga man, tbh) but I’m of the opinion that Ram is as good as most Beatles albums, and better than some. I get it that some folk won’t go for it, but it hits me.

Re: misogyny & Macca’s critical standing, the idea that critics didn’t like pop & silly love songs (& therefore wasn’t a Macca-specific thing) actually bolsters the argument that his low critical standing in the 70s was rooted in misogyny.

Is this thread gonna send me down a Beatles solo wormhole again? Oh shit, I think it is.

when we polled their solo careers I ended up compiling this, maybe you'll enjoy it

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1FLkzhKSkyDNoBa2Etcr30

Andrew Hickey's podcast this week of Hey Jude feels relevant to this thread bump re: Beatle deteriorating state of mind in the late 60s and early 70s.

This is not the first time anyone's done this.

I'm astonished at some of the omissions, most especially "Maybe I'm Amazed," which imho is one of the best songs he's ever written, period.

everyone's list will look different - calico skies and long haired lady are among his best ever imo

a lot of his hits are fine or bad and some of my faves are ones I rarely hear people raving about - daytime nightime suffering, mr bellamy, san ferry anne

maybe I'm amazed is one of his "instant standards" like let it be or yesterday - songs I can't dispute the greatness of but such fully formed objects it can be hard to find a way in sometimes - it might be easier if they were played less

oh my love is top tier lennon and the only thing from imagine (a tedious album imo) that I come back to

“Dandelions in Still Air” by Lester Bangs is one of the classic rock critic takes on solo Beatles.

I'm afraid most of my opinions were formed by reading "The Beatles: An Illustrated Record" by NME journos Roy Carr and Tony Tyler, a good indicator of the standing of the solo Beatles in the UK music press in the 70s. Basically their solo careers are mostly rubbished, especially George's, Ringo comes out relatively unscathed. The NME seemed to have it in for George Harrison in general - or Hari Georgeson as they used to call him.

It's why I'm dubious about the idea that Lennon's solo work was favoured over McCartney's, I didn't see much indication of that tbh.

George Harrison: beloved by millions

Roy Carr and Tony Tyler: 'oo?

https://i.imgur.com/dzIpRPF.gif

Carr and Tyler's book is one of the first rock critic books I read (my first encounter with the word "gormless" too), and, yeah, it's savage towards George, though they kiss Band on the Run's arse plenty.

Harrison's preachy Hare Krishna stuff seems to have gone down like a cup of sick with UK journalists at the time. Also I think Roy Carr was more a soul and jazz fan than a rock fan iirc - mark s would know better.

xps I never got the impression Lennon’s solo career was unfairly favored either. He was essentially canonized after his horrific death, but even his most ardent critical support seemed limited to less than half of his discography, and aside from the singles, I don’t think he had more than two albums that were at least good. I may not like most of McCartney’s post-Beatles work, but he was so prolific that I think he recorded just as many keepers without the Beatles as Lennon by the time Lennon laid down his final recorded note on “Walking on Thin Ice.”

the older I get the better McCartney's entire catalog sounds to me. I even like most of Wild Life now. London Town, which I dismissed for a long time, sounded great to me the other day. Back to the Egg is fantastic. Really the only albums from the 70's I don't like that much are Speed of Sound and Venus and Mars which are pretty uneven; the high points are high, the low points are low (and often aren't his doing).

his nadir is Pipes of Peace through Off the Ground where stuff gets really spotty; each album has good stuff but I'm just not a fan of this era. He rebounded quite well. I think everything since has been good to great and some of it frankly blows me away (Memory Almost Full is extremely underappreciated)

in some ways he's at his best when he doesn't try very hard

like, if you watch that Rick Rubin interview series with him, he sits down and shows you how to write a song. Play a chord. Play it up in a higher register and change it a little bit. Go back and forth. Make a little song, throw a little melody on it, done. He could probably write 100 of these a day.

I never got the impression Lennon’s solo career was unfairly favored either.

the impression i get is that most of the critical favour towards the others vs. mccartney was limited to early on in their solo careers - the others fell out of favour before too long as well and critics at least liked band on the run?

Yeah when they focus on the music at least everyone gets a drubbing. But the Legend of Lennon the Uncompromising Artist, which largely rests on extra-musical factors plus a strong first outing in POB, loomed very large, and still does in some quarters.

he’s very fussy about his mum

in some ways he's at his best when he doesn't try very hard

I would amend that to trying for a hit record - he’s made a lot of disappointing that felt like he was chasing trends (and in at least one case he compromised a promising collaboration when he blatantly wanted to do something commercial). He tried to up his game on “Band on the Run,” he was working through his grief on “Run Devil Run” after not playing any music for a year, he worked hard at “Memory Almost Full,” set it aside for a couple of years, then came back to it with strong and new ideas rather than abandoning it - for my money, those are his best studio albums, and he put in more effort than usual.

*I would amend that to “when he’s not trying for a hit record” - he’s made a lot of disappointing music

fuh you man

I would argue that Band on the Run mostly works because he wanted a hit record -- someone like Paul who grew up during the singles era and who when he went solo earned hits almost from the beginning doesn't know anything BUT recording hits.

i think it's a gigantic shame wings never made either a whole album of disco or a sprawling double album where every track sounds completely different

What do people think of Macca's 1989 album, "Flowers in the Dirt"? I was surprised at how good it was when I checked it out. 'Figure of Eight' in particular.

for disco you have to settle for a couple of basslines that almost get there, but there is easily a fantastic wings double album to be compiled by someone (who says fuck chronology). you have to include some stuff like mumbo or bip bop for the true white album effect

band on the run is very good but it feels a bit beatles lite. the call and response with his john and george impressions on the title track is a little much. john said nice things about it so I guess it didn't bother him

my brave face is a great song in theory but the arrangement has always bothered me enough that I've avoided flowers in the dirt entirely - I'll give it another shot

I like Flowers in the Dirt, but it also feels like the moment he transitions into dignified elder statesman mode, maybe because of the negative response to Press to Play, and I miss the oddness that was a feature of the earlier solo material

xp I guess a wings double album does exist in the form of wingspan - not a bad comp which introduced me to some of the songs I've mentioned but the sequencing is odd as are some of the inclusions and omissions - some day I'll fuck around with it a bit

mccartney did want to release red rose speedway as a double album originally but emi (probably correctly) refused to let him

I love the three Flowers in the Dirt singles: "My Brave Face," "Figure of Eight," "This One." The last one faffs around for a bit, but that chorus! The middle eight!

I'm also fond of "We Got Married" even when it strains to match 1984's superior "No More Lonely Nights":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8igkHOn1Dk

Nothing will transport me back to being 11 years old like the intro to "Silly Love Songs."

the singles on Flowers in the Dirt are good, album itself would benefit from some serious editing (too long) and the production is a little too of-its-time in places. the demos with costello are great of course

The back half of Flowers is a disaster, yeah.

Ou est le soleil is the worst

I still prefer the album ending with "Our Est Le Soleil," as on the CD and cassette releases, to the endless toil of "Motor of Love" on the LP. It's really that one and "How Many People" that siphon all the gas out of the engine.

Some years back on MACCA SOLO ALBUMS! I decided that my quick fix for the rexord would be to lean into more of a roots-rock or new-country sound. I'm not sure that really actually would save the weaker songs, but idk, I just feel like it'd be a comfortable fit for him. The squeaky-clean airlocked Adult Pop ambience isn't unbearable but I don't think it's doing the material any favors.

I love how he never figured out how to arrange "Figure of Eight" and kept releasing remixes and re-imagined live versions.

Still prefer the studio version.

to his credit McCartney has mostly avoided the 'remix and reissue old album' temptation (he did remix Tug of War but it very closely matched the original mix so was kind of pointless; he is doing a 'pre-mix/underdub' release of band on the run for the 50th anniversary) but Flowers was an album that would have maybe benefited from a remix.

Have we forgotten Let It Be: Naked?

yes

It's got the best mix of "Two of Us"!

sure probably and I remember the TLAWR being quite nice instead of sufferable but they still played it way too safe

where's "fancy me chances", "freak out" (ft. yoko), "half a pound of greasepaint", "strawberry fields" (sad piano version), "across the universe" (bored john and paul version)? why do they keep running away from what this album should have been?

*insufferable

it doesn't even have "can you dig it" ft heather (not to be confused with "dig it" which they also cut)

Ay, ay ay, ay ay . . . Rice a Roni

I mean McCartney has avoided remixing his solo albums not the beatles stuff, which has been endlessly remixed at this point

maybe that's not what you meant, now that I re-read it

ATMP is very good but could be so much better without spector's wall of bullshit

― Left

when it comes to music, Classic Rock is where I come from, which means I run a lot into the most bonkers (I don't mean this negatively) Beatles nuts

most ordinary people, when i talk to them about the beatles they take me for a superfan, but i know _nothing_ compared to these people. i had a friend whose entire life was centered on the beatles and pink floyd. he was one of those guys. older than the rest of us. kind of felt about himself then the way i think about being around other trans people now. at the time i didn't understand why he hid how old he was, why he was ashamed of it. it didn't matter to us how old he was. i feel like i understand better now.

i have another friend who's kind of like that now, but we don't talk about it much, he just sometimes makes fun of people on sh.tv in a way that reveals his deep well of not just knowledge, but _understanding_ of the beatles. mostly we talk about being queer. i've learned a lot from him. centering your life around being queer is a much better idea than centering your life around the beatles.

anyway, the thing about these guys is that... when you know everything about the beatles, when your entire life is the beatles, and some new technology comes out, they know what to do with it: make beatles albums better

so right now i'm listening to an AI-assisted remix of "all things must pass" that tones down the spectorizations. i have a fondness for "wall of sound" - kind of the hyperpop of the '60s, you ask me - but like hyperpop, it makes me ears tired.

ftr I do think john probably did watch sesame street while high in bed with yoko

― Left

my favorite nerd trivia about john lennon is his obsession with 1970s cable television. lennon's diaries are probably one of the best primary sources we have on manhattan cable in the '70s. yeah, he wrote some ok songs, but his _real_ contribution to the world was his firsthand observations of early cable television!

Going off on a tangent, but years ago, an older relative told me when he watched Sesame Street as a kid, Snuffleupagus was indeed "imaginary" - only Big Bird ever saw him - which was news to me. Then about five years ago, I found out that the reason why they made Snuffleupagus a tangible, physical character was because they were concerned that making everyone else doubt his existence would give children the wrong idea, as in no one, especially grown-ups, would believe them if they had something they needed to say, like someone doing something horrible or inappropriate to them. Startling to hear but made complete sense.

― birdistheword

do _not_ get me started on early sesame street, it's a special interest of mine. joan ganz cooney was brilliant and the show was pedagogically way ahead of its time. and they were all communists. mr. hooper? lifelong actor. you know why you ever saw him on anything else? the blacklist.

the answer to this is still POB which invents post punk and has some of Johns best shit

― kurt schwitterz

the problem i have with john's solo work is it pales in comparison to yoko's work of the era. i kind of think of him as a second banana to yoko, whose work so far outshines the '70s beatles solo work as to make it an unfair comparison.

Streisand also did “Love” on the same album. She must’ve liked that POB album. The only McCartney song she ever did afaik is “Honey Pie.” She recorded “Isn’t It a Pity” but not the Harrison song, the one written by the Gershwins.

― Josefa

best "love" is robert wyatt's. best "isn't it a pity" is fuckin' _emergency ward_.

I acknowledge POB’s greatness while never wanting to hear it again. Too stark, too much pain. I have problems of my own, why do I want to listen to someone else’s etc

― lethbridge-pfunkboy (hardcore dilettante)

to help you better understand those problems of your own! half of the way i understand myself is '70s music. a lot of people are carrying around inner pain that's hard for us to recognize, let alone express. i never got that by listening to john's pacific ocean blue album, but i've gotten it from lots of other music.

I’ve Got My Own Primal Scream Therapy Album To Do

― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes)

screamadelica troublegum?

to those of you out there reading this who have done a "ringo deep dive", i want to say hello to you and identify myself as one of those people who really had a bad reaction

― z_tbd

without _goodnight vienna_, we wouldn't have the script to _our show for ringo starr_ by Nemona Lethbridge and Vera Hunt.

This is not exactly going to be a hot take, but having been a Beatles fan for many years I recently set about exploring McCartney's solo discography for the first time and was shocked to discover how poor it is. With the exception of the Band on the Run album, there is virtually nothing there of any consequence. How on earth did someone who wrote or co-wrote some of the greatest songs of all time between 1962 and 1970 so comprehensively lose his inspiration?

― lord of the rongs (anagram)

"the ballad of john and yoko" hit #1 and he realized that he would never have to bother working at anything again. also i feel like at some point marijuana quit "enhancing his creativity".

The conventional wisdom dictated by 70s rock critics was more or less correct

― lord of the rongs (anagram), Wednesday, December 20, 2023 4:25 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

it was bullshit and much of it was in misogyny and the weird complex rock dudes have always had about mccartney's popularity with women

I am baffled by these takes I've heard all my life which in retrospect come off as an elaborate projection-fantasy set in motion by the jealous guy and faithfully repeated by his disciples for decades

― Left

my main beef with 70s rock critics is that they all hated zep, because zep was misogynist meathead music, which is true and also jimmy page should probably be in prison with bobby beausoleil but also zep rules. just like bobby beausoleil's music rules.

70s mccartney is better than "fit me in" by key.

You want to talk about misogyny? Lennon was married to Yoko Ono.

― Nine Inch Males (Tom D.)

i know lennon did a lot of misogynist things, but i don't think marrying yoko was one of them.

he’s very fussy about his mum

― The Glittering Worldbuilders (James Redd and the Blecchs)

i have a hard time wrapping my head around all the shit lennon gets for loving his mum

it doesn't even have "can you dig it" ft heather (not to be confused with "dig it" which they also cut)

― Left

"can you dig it" not a patch on "long title: do i have to do this all over again" imo

I would argue that Band on the Run mostly works because he wanted a hit record

He definitely still wanted hits, but I got the impression he was trying for more than a hit. Hit singles weren't a problem, he was getting plenty, but I got the impression it was really starting to bother him how a lot of people beyond the critics weren't really embracing Wings, at least to the extent he had hoped for, from his own label successfully pushing back on a double LP to the way McCullough and Seiwell left Wings (clearly dissatisfied with the band) to the other Beatles expressing their disappointment with his music (and not necessarily in a mean way either - sometimes with bewilderment). He's pretty much suggested this too, but it really seemed like he had something to prove, and I think that's one reason he brought back Geoff Emerick.

What do people think of Macca's 1989 album, "Flowers in the Dirt"? I was surprised at how good it was when I checked it out. 'Figure of Eight' in particular.

I never liked it, not even "Figure of Eight" (which sounds to me like it was done on autopilot), but I thought the "super deluxe" edition was a revelation. That's an example of what I had in mind - Elvis made it clear he wanted Paul to make a record without worrying about whether it'll be a hit, and to be clear Elvis liked Wings - he defended them in his first interviews in the '70s. Eventually he realized it wasn't going to work out when Paul said he wanted to record a song like the Human League's latest record, but those acoustic demos they recorded together in 1987 are really good, some of my favorite music from McCartney. They're a throwback to the Everly Brothers, but I don't think they would sound too out of place on Flaming Pie ten years later.

mccartney did want to release red rose speedway as a double album originally but emi (probably correctly) refused to let him

I don't like that album, but I actually think making it a double would've been an improvement. "The Mess" would've easily been my favorite track and that was lost. Everything else feels pretty insubstantial on their own, but amassed together into a 77 minute program, it works better. A lot of McCartney's suites work in similar fashion (including the one on Abbey Road) where you have a lot of undeveloped fragments that wouldn't have made much of an impression on their own, but they do when you weave them all together. It's not the same as a suite, but the cumulative effect of a double LP would have been comparable where you have this mountain of tuneful and catchy bits that he's just tossing off as if they came that easily. The context really makes a difference.

i know lennon did a lot of misogynist things, but i don't think marrying yoko was one of them.

You've misunderstood the context of the quote, which was in reply to Left's statement that McCartney's reputation suffered in comparison to Lennon's among rock critics in the 70s due to misogyny. I know what he was getting at but ..

https://cdn.drawception.com/images/panels/2012/4-6/rLt36nGSxY-2.png

He definitely still wanted hits, but I got the impression he was trying for more than a hit. Hit singles weren't a problem, he was getting plenty, but I got the impression it was really starting to bother him how a lot of people beyond the critics weren't really embracing Wings, at least to the extent he had hoped for, from his own label successfully pushing back on a double LP to the way McCullough and Seiwell left Wings (clearly dissatisfied with the band) to the other Beatles expressing their disappointment with his music (and not necessarily in a mean way either - sometimes with bewilderment).

Sure. I've read interviews where he expressed genuine hurt that Ram -- which he also worked on meticulously -- got slagged. Tastes change, though, and Ram is probably held in as much or higher esteem as BOTR.

I am a fan of the Spector sound on ATMP and dislike the new mix. I think when you try to disassemble the wall of sound and highlight everything in it, you end up with clutter.

but amassed together into a 77 minute program, it works better. A lot of McCartney's suites work in similar fashion (including the one on Abbey Road) where you have a lot of undeveloped fragments that wouldn't have made much of an impression on their own, but they do when you weave them all together.

I kind of agree and still wouldn't mind hearing this: https://www.discogs.com/release/12906615-Paul-McCartney-And-Wings-Red-Rose-Speedway-Double-Album-

McCartney II as a double album would have had a similar effect!

i think they went back to the old mix of ATMP with the most recent issue actually.

Oh I'm wrong, it's just another remix

Just listened to a mix of the songs from these solo albums. "Junk", "Remember" and "Beware of Darkness" are three very different expressions of compassion that I found unexpectedly moving in that context.

I am a fan of the Spector sound on ATMP and dislike the new mix. I think when you try to disassemble the wall of sound and highlight everything in it, you end up with clutter.

Yeah, same here. I know Harrison was critical of the production in retrospect, so it was no surprise that they eventually remixed it (only that he didn't try it himself before he died), but given the way Spector works, I'm not sure a remix was ever going to sound great. I know Harrison's mentioned that he kind of wanted an album that sounded like "The Band," so it would have been interesting if a version like that had been done at the time, but it would need to be arranged and recorded that way. They can strip out the echo in Spector's mix, but he's still piling all these people into the same room and arranging it so that their parts are on top of each other.

FWIW, I haven't listened to it since it came out, but I thought the deluxe four-cD edition of Pure McCartney was surprisingly a great listen. The hits I don't like are on there, but it was highly entertaining to hear something that felt representative of his entire solo career, whiplashing between the highs and lows and the sublime and the ridiculous over and over again. I would've liked to hear it all chronologically, just to trace how he changed with the times, and there's probably a handful of stuff I would've liked on there, but that felt like the best way to dive into his post-Beatles work rather than going through album by album - one big, well-curated box set.

Having listened to everything up to Back to the Egg, I think that tastes are going to vary so much between listeners that any really satisfying collection is going to have to be trawled by each individual. For example, I wouldn't want to do without "Little Lamb Dragonfly", which isn't compiled anywhere. I agree that Wingspan and Pure McCartney, even Wings Greatest are very worthy compilations that never get bogged down in too much of one kind of thing.

I don't like the mastering, but selection-wise I thought Wingspan was a pretty great compilation - nearly every great cut and nearly every hit as well.

I don't like the mastering, but selection-wise I thought Wingspan was a pretty great compilation - nearly every great cut and nearly every hit as well.

― birdistheword

i'm absolutely not interested in the hits... i'd love a good playlist that's just mccartney solo deep cuts. generally i'd say "the weirder the better" but this is the guy who did "you know my name (look up the number)", so that's absolutely not true in macca's case

you know john lennon was in a band before the plastic ono band

One of the great CD-Rs a buddy burned in my lifetime -- circa 2001 -- was of deep Wings/Paul cuts.

I mean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w40MUrFq3xM

I just picked up Wings Greatest on vinyl; yeah, it's short but it's also to the point and totally devoid of filler or skippable tracks.

generally i'd say "the weirder the better" but this is the guy who did "you know my name (look up the number)", so that's absolutely not true in macca's case

that is honestly one of the greatest late period beatles songs

also, I think, a truly collaborative exercise between him and lennon

I would like to remind ILM that I've been promoting Press to Play since 2005.

Alfred, whenever I flip past that album in a bin I think of you.

I mean

― poppers fueled buttsex crescendo (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

yeah that's the shit, god this sounds like kit watkins' "labyrinth". never heard it before. seriously i've heard nearly none mccartney. "sunshine sometime", i know that one. that's a good one.

the thing about these guys is that... when you know everything about the beatles, when your entire life is the beatles, and some new technology comes out, they know what to do with it: make beatles albums better